Sheltie with Cushings ear problems & scaly skin

[BuddysMom2]

Hi,
I'm wondering if anyone on the forum has dealt with a similar ear problem. My 12 year old Sheltie (Buddy) has been on vetyrol for 6 months and is tolerating it well. It has reversed some of his Cushings issues and we are happy to still have him around. Over the last few months Buddy's ears have been bothering him. He shakes his head and rubs his ears on the couches. I had some zymox from a ear infection a year ago that I used in both ears and while Buddy tolerated it well when he was on it the first time, this time it made him temporarily deaf. It took me awhile to figure out that the Zymox caused the deafness but there was a pretty clear connection. More recently one of the ears has been noticeably red and warm. A 7 day dose of amoxicillin (which I had to beg the vet for) didn't seem to help long term and made him pretty miserable while he was taking it. I am reluctant to use the zymox because of the deafness and now am just occasionally using a small amount ... in whichever ear seems to be bothering him most ... I never put it in both ears on the same day so I just have to deal with partial deafness but there is no doubt that if affects his hearing. Anyway, I had him at the internist today hoping he would have a remedy but he said that he didn't want to guess at what was wrong and give the wrong medication and wanted Buddy to see the dermatologist. Well, if money weren't an issue I'd have an appointment tomorrow, but I can't keep spending the small fortunes that each of these specialists charges. The dermatologist will be $200 plus any medication.
Does anyone have any holistic ways to deal with itchy slightly inflamed ears? I used to give Buddy fish oil every day but now he is like a cat ... trying to get him to take a pill is hard so I just worry about him getting the vetyrol down. I think I'll try again to get the fish oil back in his daily routine but are there any other suggestions?
The internist said that there isn't really a connection between Cushings and Otitis but he said that now that his Cushings is better under control, the reduction in steroids in his body would cause more inflammation and therefore could aggravate an underlying skin issue that would cause itchy ears. Who knows! I just want Buddy to feel better.
Thanks!
Peggy

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Ear problems often seem to go hand in hand with cushings and yes, as the cortisol lowers, if there are allergy issues they can show up. Zymox is not normally one of the ear treatments that we see dogs having problems with.

One thing you can do is get a good cleanser and use that to keep the ears clean and dry, then only sparingly use anything to keep it from being infected.

Some of the others will be by, that have been and have experience dealing with ear issues too.

My molly gets ear infections and I'm using a cleanser from the vet and a prescription Surolan, but it does have polymyxin B in it, which if you've already had ear problems might not be the best option, but I haven't had any issues with it.

Welcome again
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[lulusmom]

I've rescued many little ones with bad ear infections and my groomer turned me on to a product, K9 Ear Solutions, that I swear by. It clears up the ears and keeps them infection free with preventative maintenance. It's inexpensive and you can purchase it at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/For-Animals-K9-Ear-Solutions/dp/B000OUY5L6

[BuddysMom2]

Thank You!!! I'm so excited to try this - I'm going to order it now ... I read some of the reviews and apparently a lot of other people swear by it too!! Someone in their review also said that probiotics help control the yeast ... I think there is definitely something yeasty going on by the smell of Buddy's ears. I'll have to get some Kefir tomorrow for him. It feels good to have some hope!!!!!

[BuddysMom2]

Thank you so much! I'm so thankful for the internet and forums like this!

[molly muffin]

That's it!! I couldn't remember what Glynda used, but another of our members who has a pup with allergies is also using it and keeping her pups ears infection free too.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[BuddysMom2]

To molly muffin and lulusmom ... I just want to thank you for replying to my post a few weeks ago about my shelties ear problems. I've been using the K9 ear solution that you recommended daily and it has worked wonders. Buddy is not shaking his head any more and the yeasty smell in his ears is gone.
Anyway I just really appreciate the information. I wouldn't have known what to do and just can't afford to take Buddy to a dermatologist to get his ears checked for over $200. I'd rather spend that money for his Vetyrol. Thanks again!!!

[molly muffin]

Oh I am so happy to hear that Buddy's ear are clearing up nicely and continuing to do well. That's wonderful news!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Welcome from Tipper and I. I wanted to say when I was researching ear medications one day I found an article from a Dr. saying do not put any drops in a dogs ear before having them checked to make sure the ear drum is intact. It can cause big problems. I am wondering if the vet saw your dogs ears before you medicated them? I know all about vet bills, I could wallpaper the inside of my house probably 5 times with them. Blessings
Patti

[BuddysMom2]

sorry ... I started a thread in the wrong place

[BuddysMom2]

Hi,
I am hoping someone can give me some advice. My 12 year old Sheltie with Cushings is on Vetoryl and has been on treatment since last summer. He has his good days and bad days but he is hanging in there. He is still eating well (beef or chicken meatballs with veggies and rice that I make for him because he stopped eating his dog food before Christmas) but is losing weight anyway. He just recently (a few weeks ago) started losing a little hair on his snout and day by day it has gotten a little worse. Now I am starting to really worry about this because it is a pretty large spot now and where the hair is gone it is scaly and raised. It doesn't seem to bother him but it's still breaking my heart to see him like this and I'm wondering if there is anything I could put on the spot to help stop the spread of this scaly skin. I am tempted to put pumpkin oil or coconut oil on it because it might be soothing but I thought I would see if the forum could offer any advice. I've already spent a so much for vet visits and the Vetoryl so I can't bring him there for this.
Buddy is a beautiful Sheltie and I'll love him no matter what he looks like but if anyone can recommend any supplements or lotion or whatever ... I would be very grateful.
Thanks!
Buddys Mom

[molly muffin]

Hi I've moved your question over into Buddy's thread so we can keep everything together in one spot about Buddy. I also edited your thread title to reflect both the ear problems and the new scaly skin problem.

Well, the thing is, I know you hate to have to go to the vet, but you probably will want to get a skin scraping so they can determine what it is. It might be a yeast infection, that would need a medicated shampoo or an infection that needs antibiotics to get cleared up, etc.

What is the latest on his cortisol, last ACTH results? Is he in a controlled range? I'm not really sure that it is calicinoisis cutis, yeast or what without a scraping to determine.

You could try a camomile tea compress, something along those lines to sooth the itchiness. Coconut oil, manuka honey has also been used, but in the end you'll need to know the root cause. Allergies even? He has had those ear infections too. How is that doing by the way?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

What a beautiful dog you have. I am so sorry he is having problems, but like Sharlene said without a skin scraping there is no way of finding out what exactly
it is. IIn use Manuka honey an know it has great healing powers. I hope you can get this in check so it does not get worse, as others on here have struggled with CC. Maybe look at Dawn or Renee's thread for some ideas on treatment. Blessings
Patti

[BuddysMom2]

Thank you both!!! I'm going to check out the other threads that you suggested ... after doing a quick search on Calcinosis cutis I'm worried that it might be that ... I'm not due to go back to have Buddy checked for bloodwork for a month but I may get him back sooner so they can look at his snout too.

I actually have an unopened little bottle of Manuka Honey ... so I'll start with that today just to see. It can't hurt! And I used coconut oil on him last night. The fact that it is bumpy though makes me worry that it is the CC.

As far as Buddy's ears ... they are perfect ... he never shakes his head or rubs his head on the floor anymore. I've been using the cleaner you suggested daily (I never poured it in ... I just soaked a cotton ball and rubbed it all around in there) and it has worked wonders. I'm grateful to have saved so much money on the cost of a dermatologist which was all the internal medicine vet had to offer.

Since you all seem to be a wealth of information I hope you don't mind if I ask you one more question. I am feeding Buddy a home cooked diet now as I said before ... either sirloin meatballs or chicken meatballs that have been made with carrots and string beans and brown rice mixed in (the veggies are all chopped small in the food processor). Is there anything else that I could add to that ... flax seeds?? (heard they might be good for cushings dogs) anything else maybe? I would love to make this food as healthy for him as possible. If this is a ridiculous question for this forum I'm sorry ... I'm just really into this natural health stuff for my own family so maybe I can use some "food medicine" for Buddy as well.

Besides his Vetoryl ... Buddy is only taking Milk Thistle to support his liver. He used to take Fish oil but I can't get him to take the big pills anymore. I gave up a few months ago on that.

Thanks so much for all of your help so far!!!

Peggy (Buddy's Mom)

[goldengirl88]

You will want to be adding the correct vitamins and minerals in the correct amounts that he must have on a daily basis, as you did not mention any. If not this is not a healthy balanced diet for him. These things are added in dog food, like taurine, calcium etc. Blessings
Patti

[lulusmom]

I'm going to check out the other threads that you suggested ... after doing a quick search on Calcinosis cutis I'm worried that it might be that ... I'm not due to go back to have Buddy checked for bloodwork for a month but I may get him back sooner so they can look at his snout too.

I actually have an unopened little bottle of Manuka Honey ... so I'll start with that today just to see. It can't hurt! And I used coconut oil on him last night. The fact that it is bumpy though makes me worry that it is the CC.

Calincinosis Cutis usually starts on the back of the neck and the back. I can't recall a time when a member had dog with CC on it's nose. If it is CC, that would be a pretty good indication that Buddy's cushing's is not being well controlled. I checked back in your thread and see that you have never provided much of Buddy's history as it relates to cushing's. We've covered his ears and I'll be commenting more on his nose but before that, I'd like to know which tests were done to diagnose Buddy and what symptoms did he have at that time? Can you please post the results of those tests as well as the date and results of the most current acth stim test?

I have to tell you that as soon as I saw your post about Buddy's nose, Discoid Lupus, aka Collie Nose, immediately came to my mind because of Buddy's breed. This is a relatively rare autoimmune disease and Shelties are a breed that are genetically predisposed and it usually starts on the nose. If I were you, I would have Buddy seen by a derm vet to get a confirmed diagnosis.

You can see pictures of dogs with this disease but not all pictures here are DLE: http://www.google.com/search?q=discoid+lupus+in+dogs+pictures&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=nMUoU4H6KJTboAT6uYCwBQ&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1441&bih=672

For more information about the disease itself, please see the links below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_discoid_lupus_erythematosus

Here is a post I found on Dogster that might be helpful. It discusses the importance of diet and other things when dealing with DLE:
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/how-to-deal-with-discoid-lupus-in-dogs

Here's another post about a product called Freckled Paws which is apparently for DLE and it contains coconut oil. Seems like you may be on the right track.

http://www.freckledpaws.com/canine-discoid-lupus-a-simple-effective-treatment/

[goldengirl88]

Glynda is a great wealth of information. I would look into that if I were you. I have heard of Collie nose before, so now I know what it is too. Blessings
Patti

[BuddysMom2]

Thank you for the information about Collie nose. I have looked into that before (years ago) because Buddy has had issues with the black part of his nose for years.

Here's a little history ... Buddy was perfectly healthy until he was 8 years old (he's 12 now) when he started to have severe crusting on his paw pads. After a biopsy it was diagnosed as an autoimmune disease and he was given pentoxifylline by a dermatologist which is a blood thinner to increase microcirculation of his skin. It helped a little bit but his paw pads were in really in terrible shape for years ... I had to soak and trim the thick crusting several times a week so he would be more comfortable when he walked. He was seen regularly by the dermatologist for a few years.

Strangely, after he was on medication for Cushings for about 5 months, his paw pads dramatically improved. I stopped giving him the pentoxifylline mainly because it was getting nearly impossible to get him to swallow a pill ... but also because the problem for which he was taking it was gone.

Anyway ... my point is that it could possibly be Collie nose because there are so many autoimmune problems in Buddy's line. I know of several other Shelties related to Buddy from the same breeder with autoimmune diseases. (This is supposed to be a reputable show dog breeder)

I'm going to start to give him Vitamin E and fish oil pills and also apply the Manuka honey and coconut oil. Hopefully I'll see some improvement. The good thing is that it doesn't seem to be bothering him.

Thanks so much for taking the time to send me the different links ... I really appreciate it. You know so much!!!!!

Buddys Mom

BuddysMom