shama's cushing test

[jayi]

my vet did a urine cortisol creatinine @ iDEX test for cushings on my dog shama. how does anyone feel about the accuracy of this test for a first test for cushing? I know the low does suppression ... test is better but this is what my vet wanted to do. I dont have the results back yet.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome!

The UC:CR that your vet did is an excellent first test for Cushing's. Here's why - it can rule out Cushing's if it comes back normal. :) If it comes back abnormal, that still does not mean Cushing's - it simply means further testing is needed because something is off. ;)

Looking forward to seeing those results! Meantime, why don't you tell us as much as you can about your baby. What prompted the vet to start looking at Cushing's in the first place? The more you can tell us about your baby and their medical history the better! We LOVE details! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too.

I agree, it is a good first test, because it can rule out cushings, which is important.

You also might want to rule out things like diabetes and thryoid issues.

What symptoms does Shama have and what sort of history health wise? Have any other test been done such as blood, urinalysis? Specifically, you would want to look at the urine specific gravity and see if it is dilute or not.

The more we know the better feedback we can provide.

Welcome again
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

I just wanted to welcome you and let you know this is the very best place in the world for help if your dog does in fact have Cushings. As the others have said you will want to get the other testing done as it is very important to rule out other things. Please tell us what symptoms your dog is presenting with. How much does the dog weigh? You will want to keep your won copies of all testing done as we will want to see the abnormal numbers you post on here, and please also post the normal range given by the lab as they are all different. If you keep a daily doggie diary it will help you to look back and refer to important things that happened. Also you will be wanting to measure the water your dog is drinking daily. I f you dog does have Cushings know that it is manageable with drug treatment. We are all here for you anytime you need help so you are not alone in this. Blessings
Patti

[jayi]

my dog is an intact 10 year old female border collie.
nov 3rd shama AKA Boo, had a blood glucose level of 300+ and was diagnosed with diabetes. I got good advice and discussion on the diabetes forum. I got her regulated but there has allways been something else wrong with her.

her hair fell out by a pail full, mostley the guard hairs. She pants allot and has a low heat tolerance. She also has lost 2 pounds a month.

Then last month she had a low bg and i had to reduce her insulin from 14 units to 3 units. she now needs no insulin.

because she is an intact female I suspected her low bg had been caused by an excess of progesterome in diestrus. she was in di estrus when her bg went high.
I had an ultra sound of her ovaries looking for a tumor and the ultra sound tech said she had very small ovaries.

Im now wondering if she could have had pancreatitis because her diabetes went away, cured.

I ordered the cusings test even though the two vets ive had examine her dont think she has it just to rule it out. there is something wrong with her that happened in october and ive hoped to find it befor it got to be a big problem. it looks like the vets cant find it untill its big. i think the tumor would have had to be as big as a golf ball to see it on those fuzzy grey ultrasound images.

shama's blood test were normal with the ALP on the high side. I think the liver being a little off could cause some of the rapid weight loss.
when i got the urine sample it was very yellow and very srong smelling first thing in the morning.

[Squirt's Mom]

Cushing's doesn't happen suddenly, as in the month of Oct....it is a very slowly progressing condition that takes years to display signs in most cases and those signs are fairly standard.

From the Kate Connik site -


The most common symptoms (signs) include:
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)
• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)
• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs
• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.
• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance
• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• bony, skull-like appearance of head
• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin
• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly
• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)
• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)
• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures

Does she display many of these signs? How strongly and how long have they been happening?

When having an ultrasound done, we try to remind folks to make sure it is done on a high resolution machine but we have to make do with what's available at times. ;) What else did the US show? Any comments about the adrenals, liver, kidneys, etc?

What cushing's test is she going to have? I would also talk to the vet about any possibility that her intact state may be playing a role in the changes you are seeing in her.

I find the "cured" diabetes puzzling. Admittedly, I know very little about this disease but I did not think it was curable. Interesting...but I can imagine you are very grateful! I sure would be!

Has she been on any meds other than the insulin?

[flynnandian]

i once had a [rescue] belgian shepherd malinois who had the same symptoms as your dog. an inflammated womb causes the glocose level to rise. they also drink/pee a lot and are panting because of the discomfort it causes. in older intact bitches this is not uncommon. i had her spayed at the age of 10 and the "'diabetes"' was cured. [and the rest of the symptoms].
i would search for a clinic with a high resolution ultrasound machine and let them have to take a good look at the condition her womb is in.
it saved my dogs life.

[jayi]

the ultrasound tech was using a GE logic E portable ultrasound machine. shes been doing ultrasound for a long time. my young vet called her in to the clinic. she looked at the adrenal glands and ovaries because thats what the vet wanted. she only said at the end she didnt see anything big and scary.

the diabetes was a miss diagnoses. I have always suspected her female organs and will have them taken out soon.

some of the symptoms in the above list she has are:
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• diabetes, pancreatitis
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or bed


flynnandian, your dog looks just like shama's mother that died last year at age 14 after she had a siezure.

[flynnandian]

i hope shana does not have cushings. if she does, there are some good meds that can help her [not cure her]
did you breed her yourself?
the dog in the picture was my male dog flynn, who just died from complications of cushings 2 weeks ago. he was also 10 years of age.
hope your shana will live up to her mothers age.
it is a complicated disease.

[Squirt's Mom]

Has she had a full thyroid panel that looks beyond the T4?

[jayi]

Has she had a full thyroid panel that looks beyond the T4?

the vet i saw insisted dogs dont get hypothyroidism so i didnt push it.

[jayi]

i hope shana does not have cushings. if she does, there are some good meds that can help her [not cure her]
did you breed her yourself?
the dog in the picture was my male dog flynn, who just died from complications of cushings 2 weeks ago. he was also 10 years of age.
hope your shana will live up to her mothers age.
it is a complicated disease.

My wife and I herded sheep on open ranges around the west for 25 years. shama is a decendant of those dogs, ringo, rupard, tar, specky and willey. tar got hit on the highway in 1999 but had bred a border collie named specky. specky had Princess shama's mother.

[jayi]

shama's urine cortisol: creatine test was ratio 20. the vet said that less then 34 was normal. the ultra sound report said she had a slight thickening of the bladder. they recommenced when she is spayed they look at the bladder and possibly biopsy it.

[Squirt's Mom]

the vet i saw insisted dogs dont get hypothyroidism so i didnt push it.

uuhhhhh, then your vet is an idiot and you need to run from them as fast as you can. Hypothyroidism is COMMON in dogs and mimics Cushing's.

[flynnandian]

interesting to have bred so many generations. is shama your only bc left? flynn herded sheep and cows. it is what they are made for.

[jayi]

shama is the only one I have left of the line. instead of black and white she is tan and white. her great grandma willey was tan and white. we didnt breed shama i kept her away from the males.

[jayi]

uuhhhhh, then your vet is an idiot and you need to run from them as fast as you can. Hypothyroidism is COMMON in dogs and mimics Cushing's.

her vet in walla Walla, washington that mis-diagnosed the diabetes woudn't consider it.
so I took her to one in Oregon while we were here for the holidays.
i dont know how, I'm going to find a good vet for her.
I,m thinking about asking the mobile ultrasound tech. she sees allot of vets.

[lulusmom]

If you would consider seeing an internal medicine specialist, you can search for one at www.acvim.com I see that you are in Washington State so I've included a link to a list of specialists in Washington below.

http://www.acvim.org/PetOwners/FindaSpecialist/Results.aspx?LASTNAME_field=&ORGNAME_field=&INTERESTCDLST_field=SAIM&STATECD=WA&ISMEMBERFLG=Y&CUSTOMERTYPE=Diplomate&LASTNAME=&INTERESTCDLST=%7ESAIM%7E&ORGNAME=&WBP=specCust_List.htm&WHP=specCust_Header.htm&RANGE=1%2F25&NOWEBFLG=N&SORT=LASTNAME

[molly muffin]

That might be a good idea to ask the tech, because you'll need a good vet to find out what is going on and take care of shama.

Thyroid problems definitely happens in dogs.
Shama is beautiful.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[jayi]

uuhhhhh, then your vet is an idiot and you need to run from them as fast as you can. Hypothyroidism is COMMON in dogs and mimics Cushing's.

the vet said cats get Hypothyroidism and dogs get Hyperthyroidism. that must be right out of her veteran handbook.

[lulusmom]

Your vet has it backwards. Hypothyroidism is the number on endocrine disorder in dogs. It is extremely common and one only needs to Google canine hypothyroidism to find a wealth of information. It is so common in dogs that most breeds that you research for health issues will have hypothyroid listed. Hyperthyroidism is much more common in cats. It is not common in dogs and if a dog is hyperthyroid, there's either a tumor on the thyroid gland or the dog is getting too much thyroid supplementation for low thyroid condition.

[jayi]

If you would consider seeing an internal medicine specialist, you can search for one at www.acvim.com I see that you are in Washington State so I've included a link to a list of specialists in Washington below.

http://www.acvim.org/PetOwners/FindaSpecialist/Results.aspx?LASTNAME_field=&ORGNAME_field=&INTERESTCDLST_field=SAIM&STATECD=WA&ISMEMBERFLG=Y&CUSTOMERTYPE=Diplomate&LASTNAME=&INTERESTCDLST=%7ESAIM%7E&ORGNAME=&WBP=specCust_List.htm&WHP=specCust_Header.htm&RANGE=1%2F25&NOWEBFLG=N&SORT=LASTNAME

i found a couple in Springfield, oregon we will be living in Oregon after May 2014

[flynnandian]

shama is the only one I have left of the line. instead of black and white she is tan and white. her great grandma willey was tan and white. we didnt breed shama i kept her away from the males.

ok, so i hope that you can find out what is bothering her.
nice pic of her.