new from europe (arthritis and vetoryl?) - Ian, Flynn and Enya have passed

[flynnandian]

hi, i'm iris from the netherlands [holland/europe] so english is not my first language. i own 2 dogs with cushing. flynn, [4/2003] a male bordercollie and ian [3/2001] a male shetland sheepdog cross. they were both diagnosed within the last 6 months. flynn has all the obvious signs including a pretty rare one ;facialis parese is what my vet calls it. also his thyroid gland doesn't work [low] he takes forthyron pills for that. ian surprised me because i thought he was drinking more because of starting kidney failure. just as his mom did at this age. but his bloodwork showed otherwise. his urine was diluted with a minimal trace of blood. he has no other obvious signs. i hope to learn from you all here. gr iris. p.s. is vetoryl also very expensive in your countries?

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Did they do an ACTH test to determine cushings? If so do you have the numbers?

Vetroyl can be expensive here, but there is also the option of using compounded trilostane which is cheaper than the name brand vetroyl.

I've never heard of facial paralysis being a symptom of cushings. I understand that facial paralysis can be caused by muscular weakness, which is common in the hind legs of dogs with cushings. It would have to be very specific to one set of muscles though to cause it in the face. So, yes, interesting.

We're very glad you found us too. Goodness having two dogs with cushings must be a hand full at times.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

I am assuming the dates you gave are the dogs birth dates? If they are your dog may be suffering from vestibular Disease. I know there are some dogs on the forum with it, and it seems to have some faint connection to Cushings either through the disease or by age. My dog Tipper has it. I ma wondering if you dog has ever looked dizzy or circled and tilted it's head down? This can bring on facial paralysis, which may or may not go away. It makes an appearance of droop muscles in the face. Please bring this to the attention of your vet. Do you have the same test for Cushings as we do in the U.S.? LDDS, ACTH. Urine, Blood Panel, Ultra Sound? If so which ones have your dogs had, and can you tell us the abnormal results and the scale the lab uses for normal readings? Are both dogs having symptoms? Were they both tested? This is a hard disease to diagnose so it would need more that one test. Did your vet say what type of Cushings it was? If it is Pituitary I know that the Netherlands pioneered a procedure through the roof of the dogs mouth to remove the pituitary tumor. Yes Vetoryl is expensive here, depending on where you buy it the prices vary. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

Dechra lists facial paralysis as one of the less common symptoms of Cushings see link

http://www.dechra-us.com/Cushings-Syndrome/Veterinarians/Diagnosing-Cushings-Syndrome-1.aspx

I believe Sonja's Angel Apollo was diagnosed with it. My Zoe has had one or two of the rarer symptoms as well but then not some of the obvious ones, each dog is so different. Two pups with Cushings, my goodness, you have your hands full so I am so glad you found us.

[flynnandian]

Hi and Welcome,

Dechra lists facial paralysis as one of the less common symptoms of Cushings see link

http://www.dechra-us.com/Cushings-Syndrome/Veterinarians/Diagnosing-Cushings-Syndrome-1.aspx

I believe Sonja's Angel Apollo was diagnosed with it. My Zoe has had one or two of the rarer symptoms as well but then not some of the obvious ones, each dog is so different. Two pups with Cushings, my goodness, you have your hands full so I am so glad you found us.

yes it is indeed a rare symptom. but i also found it in a list somewhere. it has nothing to do with the vestibular disease. flynn has no other symptoms of that disease. moderin did not help. i'm glad i found this forum too.

[flynnandian]

I am assuming the dates you gave are the dogs birth dates? If they are your dog may be suffering from vestibular Disease. I know there are some dogs on the forum with it, and it seems to have some faint connection to Cushings either through the disease or by age. My dog Tipper has it. I ma wondering if you dog has ever looked dizzy or circled and tilted it's head down? This can bring on facial paralysis, which may or may not go away. It makes an appearance of droop muscles in the face. Please bring this to the attention of your vet. Do you have the same test for Cushings as we do in the U.S.? LDDS, ACTH. Urine, Blood Panel, Ultra Sound? If so which ones have your dogs had, and can you tell us the abnormal results and the scale the lab uses for normal readings? Are both dogs having symptoms? Were they both tested? This is a hard disease to diagnose so it would need more that one test. Did your vet say what type of Cushings it was? If it is Pituitary I know that the Netherlands pioneered a procedure through the roof of the dogs mouth to remove the pituitary tumor. Yes Vetoryl is expensive here, depending on where you buy it the prices vary. Blessings
Patti

yes, those are the dogs birthmonth/year. urine sample from both dogs showed diluted [is that what you call it in english?] wbc ok. the bloodwork showed very high levels of
(AF, AST, ALT) those are liver levels. and glucose about 8[a little bit too high] . alkaline phosphatase was with both dogs almost 1000 [normal max 150]. the vet saw that the liver was way bigger than normal with both dogs. kidney's ; bun and crea ok. we use a test called spotchen test.

flynn has had a special thyroid test [showed classic hair loss] and t4 was only 5 [8-40 is normal.] tsh was normal. the vet said that this was also a sign of cushing.

if you could see a picture of flynn, you can see that he is a classic case; he shows all the signs of cushing.

since i have 3 elderly dogs and not a lot of money at the moment, i can't afford the more expensive tests.

they respond very well on a low dose of vetoryl 1-2 mg/kg bodyweight so for the moment i keep it this way as long as they do well.

[goldengirl88]

I know what you mean about cost. All of this has nearly bankrupted me with what all my dog has been tested for etc. I don't know how they think someone on a fixed income can afford all this, they have no mercy where the fees are involved. Is the Vetoryl expensive over there? You dogs do sound like they have a lot of the symptoms of Cushings. I am going nuts with one dog having it, I cannot imagine two dogs having it at the same time. I don't know if I could handle that. I feel so bad that you are dealing with this with two dogs. It must be heartbreaking. I hope things work out for all of you. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

thank you patti for the kind words. yes it already cost me a fortune and vetoryl is very expensive in europe. i started on a low dose and as long as they do well, i don't test them. ian is a very shy dog and afraid of the vet. he gets too much stress overthere. he is almost 13 and doing well for now. flynn is 10,5 now and has a very aggressive form of cushing. he was a working sheep/cowherding dog so he had a pretty hard life. [he loved his work] he still wants to work, but he can't do it anymore due to weakness of his hindquarters. we still walk a lot in the nature and he enjoys that too. but he won't get old i think. he became a bit of an old dog in the last months.

[flynnandian]

ian weighs 14,5 kg [= about 30 pounds i believe in usa] and does well on 20 mg vetoryl. he was dry almost inmediately after starting vetoryl.
flynn weighs 29 kg [which is 5 kg too much] and gets 60 mg once a day. and 2x200 mg forthyron.

[goldengirl88]

I know all about the hind leg weakness. My Tipper had bulging muscles before this Cushings it has wasted much of her rear leg muscle away. It is just pitiful to see her body compared to what it was. I am trying to keep her form deteriorating any further, by staying on top of everything. Hope your babies continue to do well. What is your weather like over there now? We are having frigid temperatures all week, hasn't been this cold in 30 years here. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, yes they don't look the same anymore. they look much more like an old dog now. i try to walk them as much as they want to keep those muscles in good shape. it is very foggy here today and 3 degrees celsius [0 is freezing overhere in europe] hopefully the weather improves so you can walk with tipper again. doesn't she like the cold? maybe several times a day for a short walk? lots to worry about with our doggies, but i try to enjoy their company too. i've got 3 10+ dogs.....and one black cat.

[goldengirl88]

Hi:
I just wanted to tell you Tipper developed a heart murmur as a result of the Cushings I am sure. Since your heart must work much harder in cold weather I am careful not to walk he in it. I take her around the yard, but no walking as it restricts their blood vessels. Be careful with your babies in cold weather as I have seen many people on here whose dogs have heart murmurs. They are also very susceptible to any heat in the summer. Tipper wears a coat now even when going out to go potty. Her hair is sparse now and she has no real insulation as a lot of their fat is redistributed also. It makes fat travel to places where it has never been on them. I also have her on fish oil to get rid of the fat in her blood. Were your dogs tirglycerides real high? That is fat mobilized into their blood and you must get rid of it. Sound like you are having frigid temperatures like us. Stay warm and safe. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

ok, i understand why you don't walk outside with tipper in this harsh weather. thanks for the tip about the heart and vessels. they do get omega 3 fish oil with their food. are your supplements in yet? can you tell me which ones you are using to help tipper? i wish i had more money to do more tests, but i have not at this moment. like you, i'm alone with my pets. gr iris.

[molly muffin]

Patti has a whole list of supplements that she uses. In general most of us use some sort of liver support supplement. The fish oil you are already using.
Hawthorne has been good for heart issues. Not sure if that is a factor for your babies or not.
I just use heppato support for the liver as that seems to be where my molly's problems are.

You are never alone when you have all of us around! :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you sharlene for your nice words. i'm glad i found this forum. the liver is indeed where my dogs problems are. enlarged liver. heppato support; are those herbs? it is a very complex disease........i have to go to bed now, but this forum is very interesting. gr iris.

[molly muffin]

I get Heppato Support supplement from my vet, so not herbal. In the US they have something similar called Denamarin. You're in the Netherlands right, they should have something along the lines, with maybe milk thistle in it.
okay I just checked and they have Denamarin at amazon.co.uk There might be something else cheaper online that is available to you, but that is what you would be looking for.
Sleep well.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

I do give Tipper supplements. I give her about 1/2 teaspoon of Manuka Honey for acid reflux, S Adenosyl for her Liver support, GlycoflexIII for her joints and trachea, Cardio strength for her heart, Renal support for her kidneys, 150 mg of Vitamin E, Hawthorn for her heart. I may have left one out I will add it when I remember. Just be aware of your dogs breathing, and how he sounds after running to see if he is winded which could mean heart issues. Also watch their eyes, I check Tipper's regularly to make sure she can see well, as she had an issue a while back, and because they get calcium deposits on their eyes which require drops sometimes. You dogs back and musculoskeletal system can be affected also. Tipper has a small indentation in her back where the muscle is gone and the weight of her stomach has pulled down on her back. She has to have cold laser therapy to make sure she is not having pain from it. I still worry about these tremors at nite. Some nites are worse than others. Stay warm and safe. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

ok, thank you both for the list of supplements. i will look them up. everything is worth the try. i was able to get 2 boxes of vetoryl via an advert on a forum because their dog died. i paid for it, but it never arrived. when i email them, they always say; tomorrow... today i got an email saying that it should be there today. you can quess it; it didn't show up. i'm afraid that they are fake and just took the money...[$%^&* people there are on this planet] it was enough for 4 months, and it was a lot of money for me!! makes me very sad!!

[addy]

That makes me sad and mad, that someone on some forum somewhere would take advantage like that. :mad::mad::(

I sure hope it arrives and restores my faith in humanity - for someone to do something like that to you.:(

[Squirt's Mom]

Hopefully they are just scatterbrained like me and haven't quite gotten all their ducks in a row yet, and may have even lost a few. :p I hope it shows up soon. I tend to want to believe everyone in the dog world is like most of us here - good-hearted, compassionate, honest folk - but that sadly proves not to be true at times. :( And I'm shocked every time. :rolleyes::(:eek::mad::(

[molly muffin]

I'm with Addy that makes me so upset that anyone would take advantage of someone who is scared for their dogs health. ppffftttt Ask them for the tracking number..if you paid by paypal, say you will open a dispute, if it is a public forum, let the administrators know in case they are taking everyone for a ride.

Do you have online pharmacy available in the Netherlands that you can get vetroyl or compounded trilostane (same thing) through? compounded is usually cheaper than the name brand, but name brand you know exactly the dosage, trilostane has to be compounded into a different measurement than the name brand is, for instance instead of 10mg vetroyl, you can get 9 or 11 trilostane.

This is definitely worth pursuing with price is a factor.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

You have to be a real low life loser to take advantage of someone trying to save their dogs life. This infuriates me, knowing that you cannot afford this. Did you pay with a check? If so maybe your bank will get involved. You did not need this especially with two dogs having Cushing's. I am just so furious. What are you going to do for Vetoryl? Where did you find out about this person selling this. We surely dont want anyone else to fall victim to this. I am so sorry this happened to you. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

it was a dutch forum, so you don't have te be afraid they could harm you. their dog died from cushing at the age of 16. i finally got a normal answer from them and the vetoryl should be here on friday. if not, i will notice the forum and everything. i do my banking online and i've got their name and banknumber. because vetoryl is so expensive, people do sell the remains of this medicine, when their dogs have died, on the internet. i am always looking for ads like this. most of the time it is about half of the normal price. people tipped me that i can order it in england for 1/3 of the normal price at www.medicanimal.com. you need a recipe from your vet every month. earlier on one recipe was enough and you could order for a long time at once, but that is not allowed anymore. they advise to buy the 120 mg capsules and divide them yourself into the dose you need. it is much cheeper that way. you can buy the empty capsules online. i don't know if anyone has experience in doing so? sounds difficult. the pharmacies overhere say; they don't do the oldfashioned handywork anymore when i asked if the could do the job for me.

[goldengirl88]

I see what you mean where you got it, but I must caution you on something. Dechra the manufacturer told me to never under any circumstances open the capsules. It is bad for the dog and you. You should never come in contact with the drug inside the capsule. It is not even good for dogs to bite the capsule. Also you can never be sure of what amount the dog is getting. you could be putting your health at risk doing this. I know money is tight, but this is really bad. Please contact DiamondBack Pharmacy in the U. S. I think they ship out to other countries, and they are so much cheaper than Vetoryl. That is a possibility. You can contact them online they have a website. I hope you can get this all straightened out and everything goes well. Pleas take care, I am worried for you and your babies. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

NO NO NO! Never open and divide capsules! :eek::eek::eek: The contents of the cap contain not only the drug needed but also fillers. It is impossible to divide the contents of the cap and get equal amounts of the drug and filler in each portion - you may have a huge dose of the drug in one part and very little in the other. NEVER divide capsules of any kind...and pass this on to the forum that is telling people to do this. They are taking HUGE risks with the health of all that take the divided capsules.

[flynnandian]

yes, thanks for the warning, i already thought so. you may be surprised how many people do this. just like me, they can not afford the vetoryl. some people have a pharmacy that divides the capsules for them. why is it so expensive anyway? because they are the sole manufacturers? i keep looking for a cheaper way to collect vetoryl.

[flynnandian]

and still no vetoryl arrived from that person. send several mails, but they don't reply to them.

[Renee]

It just seems so cruel that someone would sell you a medicine you need for your dog.... and then just not deliver. How low down can they get! I am so sorry this is happening to you.

[flynnandian]

thank you, and yes, i would never do that to a person, even being as poor as a churchmouse, [which i -sort of- am] sad.........

[Junior's Mom]

Welcome to the forum. I have heard that trilostane is still used on people in Europe, so I'm wondering if it would be cheaper for you to take a prescription from your vet to a people pharmacy.
Tracey

[flynnandian]

thank you for the tip. i will research it. gr iris.

[doxiesrock912]

Can you order from Diamondback? http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/

[goldengirl88]

I had previously asked her to look up Diamondback on the web I think they ship out of the country. Unless the shipping would be too high it may be worth a try to contact them. I hope you are having a good weekend with your babies. Stay safe and warm. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i emailed them yesterday and got a reply.

Please let me know the doses of Trilostane that your dogs would need. Then I can quote accurate pricing for you.

It is difficult to ship prescription medications into EU countries, but I am willing to give it a try.

Michael Blaire, RPH

Diamondback Drugs

i emailed back but since it is saturday now, i have to wait till monday for an answer.

[goldengirl88]

I am so glad that you contacted them. This should be much cheaper and safer for you to do. They will be in on Monday and probably you can get an answer then. How is your weather today. What town in the Netherlands do you live in? I am wanting to look at it on Google Earth, and one of our other members village I would like to see. Foreign countries always interest me. Have you lived there your whole life? Tipper is better today but still not great. I may have to take her to the vet tomorrow. I am cooking some more rice for her now. I have been giving her slippery elm. This bout was so bad it may take a few days to clear up. I am so glad I only gave her a little of that food. I can see she lost weight the last 2 days. I hope you are safe and warm with your babies inside. I really hope you can get this drug from Diamondback. It will be a lot cheaper for you and safer. We have about 9 inches of snow and counting as it is still snowing after a whole day of it. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i wil post their answer here when i get one from diamond back. i think you have to be patient with tipper getting better. all that diarhea must have exhausted her. think about having it yourself, you won't run a marathon the days after.....hope you can save the costs of the vet. it is pretty "warm"' here for the time of the year now. 9 degree celcius. no wind. last year we had lots of snow too, and ice. from november till march.
my flynn suffers from arthritis in his front legs, and it worsened so much after using vetoryl that i have to take the decission to stop with it [for now] he is on a low dose, but it can be a side effect of the vetoryl i read. ian is doing very well at the moment. i also have ians sister enya. she is 11,5 now and i fear that she will get cushing too. as i look back on the last 6 months of their mothers life, i think that she maybe suffered from it too. she was 14 when she died.

[Renee]

So, did your vetoryl you bought from that person never arrive??

Good luck with diamondback. I really hope they can get the medicine for you and at a good price. I was scared to find out the price of vetoryl at my vet's office, but it turned out to be a reasonable price for me, which I am so grateful for!

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry your babies are not feeling well. The arthritis is because when they take the Vetoryl and it makes the cortisol go down then the inflammation acts up. The cortisol masks the arthritis pain. I cannot believe all the dog s you have that have Cushings and now the mom you think had it too. It is really an epidemic in this country. What breed of dogs are the ones that have it and was the mom the same breed. I just took Tipper out and the temperature is dropping again and very frigid. She has not pooped since last nite and has had a small amount of chicken and rice. I am hoping when she does go it is solid. If not I may ask the vet for something and not take her in as she gets so stressed. It depends on how she feels in the morning and if she gets up tonite. Stay warm and safe I am going to look up the city you told me about. Hope Diamondback can work something out for you. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

are you ordering from diamondback too? i hope they can help me. hopefully tipper is better in the morning. give her the time to recover, it can take some time. stress at the vet is not good for our cushingdogs. mine don't like it too. i always have something in store for my dogs from the vet against diarrhea and vomiting and painkillers. they always surprice you in the weekend. ians an enya's mom was part italian greyhound and part french huntingdog. she was my top sporting dog. she won a lot in agilitycontests. i bred her twice with my shetland sheepdog for myself and others wanting a pup for agility. they did well. ian is from her first litter, enya from her second litter. after that she was spayed.
flynn is a pedigree bordercollie longhaired.
hope you and tipper sleep well tonight.

[flynnandian]

my bordercollie flynn has arthritis in his front legs and it got worse after using vetoryl. i 've made the discision to stop for now with the vetoryl [he was already on a 2mg/kilo dose] painkillers don't help enough.
has anyone on this forum experience with this side effect of vetoryl?
and what did you do? he is suffering now and this can't go on like this.

[StarDeb55]

Dogs with Cushings are self-medicating as cortisol is a natural anti-inflammatory. Once the cortisol is brought down to a more healthy range, frequently, things like arthritis can be unmasked or become worse. It may be that Flynn may do better to let his cortisol run slightly higher to help with his arthritis. A lot of members have dealt with this issue, if you can tell us what meds you tried, someone may be able to offer something new.

Debbie

[flynnandian]

he got painkillers: NSAIDS like norocarp/carprodyl [europe] but they do not help enough.

[labblab]

Just wanted to tell you that I have joined your new thread into your original thread, along with a title addition that will reflect your new question. This way, people will know what you are wondering about in terms of the arthritis, and also be able to read about the complete medical history for Flynn and Ian with all the information here in one place. :)

Marianne

[spdd]

I just wanted to pop in and tell you my experience with nsaid's and such

My boy started with cartrophen needles a series of them. They weren't too expensive, but it didn't help much at all.

Then he was diagnosed with cushings, (that's a very long story) and the jury is still out on that, so I'm not treating him at all for cushings.

I then got laser therapy for him, and he was taking Metacam, however the Metacam made him vomit every so often and he constantly would eat grass. I don't know if the laser therapy worked or not either.

Then I went to Tramadol, which has no anti-inflammatory in it and I really don't know if that helped him at all, but I figured it was better then nothing.

Knowing he needed an anti-inflammatory, my new vet suggested Previcox. I did a trial period of it just over the last few weeks. It is an anti-inflammatory and pain killer. He's doing wonderful on it so far, no stomach upsets, and he's eating, pooping normally, so I ordered another months worth. Originally I just had over a week of pills then tried a couple of weeks, now we are on it for the long run. It's not cheap - here in Canada 20 pills cost $58.00 but he takes 3/4 of a pill once daily. He's just over 60 lbs, so I'm sure it's adjusted by their weight. I might add also that he has hydrotherapy once a week in a warm salt water pool, which I'm fortunate to have available in this small town, and I think it's done wonders for him. He can still climb a full flight of stairs without too much effort and he's over 14 years old.

Hope some of this info help you.

[Squirt's Mom]

NSAIDS are not recommended for cush pups because they are so very hard on the liver which is already under great stress with the cortisol. So I would talk to the vet about something for pain other than NSAIDS. It is difficult to find something that can help and not cause more problems but there are other options to try - like some of the things Patti mentioned. Also look into Adequan, Dasuquin, and Cosequin.

[flynnandian]

i went to the vet today. he got a little bit of fever. his wrist was inflamed and way bigger than normal. he is now on antibiotics for ten days. if it is not improving within 2 days [he does not use this leg at all for now] i will put him asleep. this is not worth him. after all , a bordercollie needs to be able to walk several times a day. even if he is retired from work now. saturday we went to the forest and he walked for an hour, sundaymorning he could not walk at all. those arthritis attacks come on so fast with him. 2 months ago he had his last one and after a.b. for 10 days, he was fine again. hopefully this time too.

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry this is happening. Could you instead ask your vet about Adequan shots. They helped my Tipper really a lot, they are not that expensive. My vet charged 20.00. It really will make a difference and you could keep your baby this way, and he would not be in pain. It is terrible all of the things happening to all our babies. Stay safe and warm. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, me....I am praying the leg will heal and he is able to use again very soon so you aren't faced with "the decision" just yet.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[flynnandian]

i'm glad you all understand so well what i and all the other owners are going through. it feels good to be able to talk on this forum about our dogs. and about the tips about the cushing treatment. i hope the a.b. will do their work with flynn. besides the arthritis and the cushing, he still is in a pretty good shape. no more vetoryl for him, so we will see how long he will last. he is a tough one.

[molly muffin]

Oh so sorry that he is having so much problems with the leg pain. :( To go from walking one day to not being able to use it the next makes me think, perhaps he over did it on the one day. So maybe just no long walks, short walks for him.

Hoping he recovers.
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

yes, he should not take another walk for an hour at once anymore, but tell that to a bordercollie............[i will try though] they want to "'work"'

[flynnandian]

answer from diamondback:
We could compound 120 Trilostane 15mg capsules for US$63.00. Shipping to the Netherlands via FedEx International Priority would cost US$60.00 and typically takes 2 business days. Dutch customs will not allow the importation of an individual prescription, so we will need your veterinarian to fax or email us a prescription for office administration. You should also check with your Ministry of Health to see if there is any other paperwork that is necessary. As I said previously, EU countries are difficult to work with.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Michael Blaire

[flynnandian]

the trilostane is indeed much cheaper at diamondbacks , but shipping to europe makes it very expensive. that is a pity.
so far i managed to buy vetoryl from a sort of dutch ebay. people sell their vetoryl after their dog has died. i have bought 2 boxes of vetoryl for about 1/3 of the normal price. [and they arrived today]

and yes-after some treatening- i got the capsules i ordered via a forum 2 weeks ago and never arrived till today. they say the mailcompany is to blame for that???????

[goldengirl88]

I am so glad you got your Vetoryl. Are you sure it is the real stuff and not tampered with? I feel so bad that this is so expensive and you need it for two dogs. It is not fair that some people cannot afford to treat their dogs because this Vetoryl is so expensive. These drug companies are making a fortune off of our misery. I pray that your babies leg gets better. Do you think a wrap would help it? Maybe during the day wrap it to make it stronger? Hope you can work. It out. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

the box and the blisters look original, so i hope they are the real stuff. flynn is off the vetoryl due to his severe arthritis attack from sunday. he had that twice since using vetoryl. i don't think i will put him back on it.
too much risk with his arthritis.
how is tipper feeling?

[goldengirl88]

She is blown up like a balloon from the fluids they gave her. I have had very little sleep in the last three nites, and I have a feeling with all this fluid we will be going out all nite . She is napping now, and was very upset that I took her to the vets yet again. We'll see what tomorrow brings! Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

ok, i hope you 2 sleep well tonight. i'm going to bed now too, after walking the dogs for the last time.

[goldengirl88]

Up again last nite as the vet gave Tipper so much fluid that she peed all nite long. I got a lot of research done on some of Tipper's issues, if you read my post you will se what I mean. I hope I can get this stuff straightened out for her sake and mine. I hope you baby is able to get up and use that leg today. I guess you will have to forgo the Vetoryl for now, maybe a smaller dose?? Just to control it ?? Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

ok, i will go to tippers thread now to read about your research. flynn's leg is not any better yet... he was already on a very low dose, but he is too sensitive because of the arthritis.
i hope the 2 of you will finally getting a good night sleep.

[flynnandian]

flynn is using his front leg a little bit today. glad he has still enough strength in his hindlegs to walk on 3 feet. he wants to play ball again....
ian is -4 weeks after his collaps-[i thought he was dying at that moment] and about 3 weeks on vetoryl his bouncy puppy self again. he has more energy than before the collaps. no more tremors so far. no more peeing inside.....

[goldengirl88]

I am so glad he is using his leg a little. Do you think heat on it may ease the pain like a hot water bottle? I hope he can start to get around and maybe get it used to bearing his weight again. I can't believe what they want to ship something to you, My God! Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hello patti, he does not want to be touched there , because of the sore wrist, so i won't. maybe later on when it isn't as painful anymore. his wrist is much bigger because of the inflammation and very stiff.
yes it will cost 60 dollars to ship a lightweight envelope with pills to europe. it sounds ridiculous. i read that inside the usa it only costs 8 dollars. cushing dogs are "'an expensive hobby"'
hope you and tipper have a quiet night.....

[flynnandian]

flynn is using his leg a little bit more when walking. if he wants to go any faster he walks on 3 legs. it slowly improves.
are there more dogs on this forum with an arthritis outburst because of using vetoryl.
before using it, he was a retired working dog, but moved pretty well.

[molly muffin]

Yes we've had a lot of dogs that have arthritis issues when on vetroyl. The arthritis was there, and the cortisol at higher levels covered it up, when the cortisol drops, any arthritic problems show themselves.
An xray if there is any question will show the arthritis usually. I know that my molly has some already and will have more as she gets older and her cortisol will always need to be a little bit higher for that reason.
She isn't on vetroyl yet as we haven't gotten any clear answers in the past few years. We just monitor her. If she ever displays the typical cushings symptoms though, it will be a fine line to walk as to how much to give her.
Others have gone through the same things. Working dogs, often have arthritis as they get older. It's hard on the joints.

I'm glad to hear that Flynn is using the leg a bit more though, that is a good sign.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you sharlene for the answer. hopfully your molly does not need vetoryl at all. when she reacts as my flynn, that will be bad for her. it went downhill so fast, it scared me. yes, the arthritis was there before, but it did not show then. he has to be taken off the vetoryl, because of this. the painkillers are not good for his liver, but he needs them very much right now. he is now on forthyron [2x200mg] again for his thyroid problem. he still has lots of energy and his wrist is thinner now. i have to wait and see how this will work out.

[molly muffin]

It is often, day by day and you just gauge how they are doing. Perhaps a very low dosage of vetroyl would work? It's a fine balance that you need to find.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

he was only on 2 mg/kg. and it did not do much. i will see first how this will work out with this arthritis attack. i'm afraid to use the vetoryl on him ever again. he did better without it.
my other dog is doing very well on such a low dose. hugh difference in just 4 weeks time.
like you said, every dog is different and balancing and patience [baby steps] are the right words.

[molly muffin]

Oh no I was thinking perhaps a much lower dose, but I don't know if that would help with the other symptoms and allow the arthritis to still be in control.
For instance, my molly weighs 19 lbs, and the specialist talked about only doing 5mg, while my vet spoke of 30mg.
For now nothing, but we'll see what happens going forward. I'm more concerned that for molly it might be liver rather than cushings. No way to know yet and all we can do is keep an eye on things.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

flynn is walking a lot better today. hope it will progress this way.
so, your molly's condition is a riddle to everyone? it indeed sounds like liverproblems. is she feeling fine? i'm afraid to put flynn on vetoryl again. maybe a very low dose like you said? first he has to get over his arthritis attack before i change anything. it is nice we can help each other here on this forum with advice and tips.

[molly muffin]

oh yay, glad Flynn is walking better today. yes, I'd be scared too about going back on vetroyl.

Yep, Molly feels and acts fine. It would a 100 percent better if we didn't know there was something going on with her. Just monitor is all we can do.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

yes, he is doing better, but he is on ab and lots of painkillers. good to hear that molly is feeling fine despite of her testresults showing there is something going on. i am going to read her topic tonight. cushing has so many faces......

[molly muffin]

We've been told cushings first in 2011, then in 2012, her ACTH says yes, her ultrasound says yes possibly, her LDDS says no and she has no cushings specific symptoms, so we haven't pursued any cushings meds for her. We are monitoring liver values basically at this point, which have gone up a bit on last test.

I was suppose to take her in tomorrow for a recheck of her ear infectiion, but right now the roads are a sheet of ice, sidewalks too. At one point walking home from a dinner with friends tonight, I stopped, and started to slide backwards. No more stopping after that . I was holding on to hubs arm the entire time too. Gads, that wasn't fun. I opted to take molly out to the back where it was just slushy snow. She'd never be able to walk on that ice. We'd both be down on the ground and neither of us is a spring as we use to be.

We talk a lot of giggles on molly's thread . It's for now, more of a feel good thread I think until I have moments of panic. I also document her test results there and anything going on with her. It helps me to know whats what and when.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sorry to hear that your boy is on so many painkillers, but for right now rest is the best thing and being pain free probably makes him feel better for the moment. Maybe if he can rest up for a while then his wrist will get tolerable for him. Do you decorate and celebrate Christmas? Have a good weekend with your babies. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, flynn is not painfree i think, but more painkillers won't help. he is on the max dose now. the inflammation of his arhrtritis is still there. he is halfway his ab, so we still have to be patient, but it still does not look very well.
i have also had way too many deaths in the family. my mom died young of a very agressive form of breast cancer and my dad got kahlers disease and died too. they lived a very healthy life so why they got cancer no idea?
i only hang my christmascards on the wall/door. i have an aunt who i'm going to with christmas it is a sort of tradition. she is alone too. the dogs are welcome too! hope you and your animals have some quiet days too and tippers leg will be fine.

[goldengirl88]

Tipper is a tad better today, but she kept me up all nite making sure she did not jump off the bed. I just want Christmas for Tipper and I to go quietly by. Not a good holiday for me. I hope your baby get some rest and improves, it is so hard when they get old and have problems to help them. Tipper gets naughty if something hurts her and you touch it look out, she will nip you. Try to have the best day you can with your aunt. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

flynn's leg has not improved any further , so i don't think it will. he feels fine, but he can't run , just walk and hop on 3 legs.
hope tipper's leg got better and you get a good night rest. and merry christmas.

[molly muffin]

Give it some Time. It might get better. Sometimes healing a bad leg can take months even.

Merry Christmas
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

he is frustrated because he can't move the way he wants to. he is a bordercollie after all. his wrist is already deformed because of the arthritis. it went downhill so fast. wednesday is the last day of his ab and he is still on a huge dose of painkillers. he is not a patient dog. i will give him some time, but he is not happy now.

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry this wrist is not getting better. Border collies are so beautiful and smart, I know it is probably killing him to not be running around. Rest and love seems to be all you can do for now. We were having spring temperatures here also, very strange for winter weather. Now today it is to go into the teens. I hope somehow your baby gets a miracle and his wrist is healed. God Bless you all.
Patti

[flynnandian]

thank you patti, for all the good wishes. flynn is not doing better today. i went to the vet for other painkillers, maybe they will work any better. it is still very warm for the time of the year. lots of wind and rain tonight. only p and p rounds tonight for the dogs.

[flynnandian]

i want to post some photo's of my dogs in an album. i found the link add album, but how do i upload the pictures? i've uploaded them to photobucket already.

[goldengirl88]

Sorry to hear you had to get more painkillers. The weather here is really weird too. It is 60 one day and the next in the teens. It is showering little pellets of ice right now. We are supposed to get a few inches of snow tonite. I will be glad if we do as all the water on the ground from all this rain will freeze. Tipper need some traction because of that leg. I don't go to the vets till morning. I will take him some candy and soften him up and see if he will give Tipper's leg a look! Hope these new meds work on your baby. I feel so bad when they are in pain. Blessings
Patti

[Roxee's Dad]

i want to post some photo's of my dogs in an album. i found the link add album, but how do i upload the pictures? i've uploaded them to photobucket already.

Once you add an album, open it and you will see a link at the bottom to add photo's :) easy peasy ;)

In our how to section:

How do I use albums?

As a member, you can create Albums of images that are linked to your public profile. Albums can be created by visiting the User Control Panel, and clicking on the 'Pictures & Albums' link, and then clicking on 'Add Album'.

Each album can have a title ('Joe's Holiday to Nepal'), a description ('A bunch of photos from my recent adventure') and can be of three different types: Public, Private or Profile.

Public albums can be viewed by anyone
Private albums can only be viewed by site staff (moderators, administrators) and your Friends and Contacts (info)
Profile albums are viewable only by you. However, you can use the images to customize your public profile (info)
How do I upload pictures?

Once you've created an album you can upload images to it. Simply view the album and click on 'Upload Pictures'.

You'll have the option to give each picture a caption, and to set one image as the Album cover, which will be displayed on the public profile. To delete an album or edit the title, description or album type, click on 'Edit Album'. To delete an image, or to edit a caption or change the album cover, click on 'Edit Pictures'.

All members who have access to your album images can comment on them, in a similar way to Visitor Messages (more info). You can delete any image comments from your albums, and report inappropriate messages to moderators.

When you have uploaded a picture, you can place it in your posts by using the BB code text that is displayed below the image when you view it at full size.

[flynnandian]

ok, i will try it out.

[flynnandian]

i have created an album now, i see upload pictures. when i have chosen one, this site says i did not upload one??

[molly muffin]

I find it easier to upload the pictures directly from my computer. You don't have to go through photobucket to add them to your album on here. Just open the album, and go to upload a photo at the bottom, I think you can maybe do 3 at a time or something, and then just browse to your computer and add. The site will auto resize anything that need it and you can then add a caption. Let me know if you have any problems

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

i did it that way, directly from my computer, but it says; pictures none??

[Roxee's Dad]

Did you see a window like this one?

After you choose a file (Picture) then you have to click upload.

[flynnandian]

no i didn't

[molly muffin]

Okay, step by step.
First, go to User CP in the top left corner.
Then you'll see pictures and albums on the left hand side, click that.
Now you will see Add Album, click that
Title you're album, add a description if you want or not, doesn't matter and
mark, public or private and submit. Now you have an album
You should see it and be able to click on it
Once you do it opens and says "Upload pictures"
Now you have a box with 3 areas to Browse to your pictures on your computer.
Once you select a file, it should say open, which you click on and then use the next Browse button to go to your next picture. Once you have 1 - 3 pictures selected, you will underneath that box, click on Upload pictures.

That should upload your pictures to the selected album.
You can choose one of them then to be the album cover.

Let me know if that works

Sharlene

[flynnandian]

i did it exactly that way, i did it on other forums too, but it says not chosen?

[flynnandian]

you did not select any pictures to upload?? strange...

[molly muffin]

It sounds like the picture didn't open. Once you browse to a picture on your computer, then open it, you should see where it then list the picture, such as the example john showed. Once it is listed, it can be uploaded

I can't do it on this computer since i'm on a work computer, but that is what you are aiming for.

[flynnandian]

i know, it is very simple, but the forum does not want to upload them.......maybe the forum can't read dutch.............joking, but it is very strange. they don't like my doggies....snif!!

[molly muffin]

awwwww okay what about posting a link to the photobucket pictures?

[molly muffin]

It shouldn't be a location issue as we have members all over the world who upload photos. I just looked at Dudley's picture and he is in Denmark.

Sorry so many problems with the picture issue :(

[flynnandian]

where do i post those links? in that choose a picture frame?

[flynnandian]

i know, normally i do it on forums without any trouble happening.

[molly muffin]

should be a link on photobucket that you just copy and then can paste into your message on the thread.

I've seen others do it but never tried it myself.

Keep messing with that album too. Don't give up, we want pics!!!

hahahaha

[molly muffin]

I have to log off this computer and go take care of a few things But I'll be back.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you for all the advice. i will try the photobucket link.

[flynnandian]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/IMG_2302.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/IMG_2302.jpg.html)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/DSC00768.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/DSC00768.jpg.html)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/flynningras.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/flynningras.jpg.html)

[flynnandian]

the first picture are siblings left enya and right ian [cushingdog]
the other ones are flynn when he was not ill yet.
i don't have recent pictures. i will make some.

[molly muffin]

That was worth the wait! They are adorable :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you!!

[Roxee's Dad]

Beautiful !!!

[goldengirl88]

Oh my god your babies are absolutely beautiful. You can tell they are well taken care of. I am hoping the new drug you got helps with the arthritis. Hope you have a Merry Christmas. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

thank you. unfortunately, flynn is not looking as beautiful as he used to be. he has all the cushing symptoms. his leg remained the way it was yesterday. no further improvement. merry christmas to you all.
and patti i hope the vet did watch tippers leg for free because of christmas.....

and i bought myself a christmas present : 38 capsules vetoryl 30 mg for half the price on the internet. again somebody's dog died. this way i can afford the pills and keep my ian fine. i still have 28 left from an other "'discount purchase"' so 66 days of life extra for my ian. he is doing very well on them. i'm happy with that.
i'm looking for such offers [cheap vetoryl] every day.
because it is so expensive people sell "'the vetoryl leftovers"' after their dogs have died.

[flynnandian]

flynn's leg has gone worse. i fear that i have to make that dreaded decision this friday. unless a miracle happens.....................

[molly muffin]

Oh no. I am so sorry to hear this

Big hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Dawn Anderson]

Praying for a miracle for your baby this christmas night. Please god help Flynn and his beloved mother this Christmas night.

Dawn & Buttercup

[flynnandian]

thank you all for the good wishes and prayers.

[Squirt's Mom]

Sending healing energies and prayers flying yours and Flynn's way.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Also praying for a miracle for you and your beloved boy Flynn may God bless you both with a miracle.
Patti

[flynnandian]

he was spoiled rotten by us yesterday! he liked it very much! the thing is, that he feels pretty well and wants to participate in everything. when a dog lies down in a corner and does not want to eat or drink, then it is obvious, but he wants to live! his head wants to, but his body says no.....see what the vet will say tomorrow morning..........

[goldengirl88]

I am so glad your baby was spoiled for the day. Now what are you going to do with the aquarium dilemma? I guess when it rains it pours. That always happens to me a have several issues at a time going on. I just hate when Tipper has those vestibular episodes. It is so hard to watch and there is nothing you can do to stop it, I tried. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i borrowed an old heater from a friend and it works pretty well so far. but the fish are still upset.
how is tipper afterwards? is she tired or confused? does she recognise you immediately?
flynn has just "played ball". he feels fine.

[Squirt's Mom]

I so hope Flynn is doing better today!

[goldengirl88]

Oh that is great that your friend had a heater for the fish. I am so happy you said Flynn was playing ball, that sounds like he feels much better, I hope it continues. Tipper can hear me and she will look at me when I call her name out during these vestibular episodes. She cannot it seems stop her body from going in circles as I even trued to hold her once and could feel the force of her body wanting to spin. It is awful to watch as you never know when their head will stay down in that position which would be awful. Thank God she has been lucky so far, with no permanent repercussions. Hope you are able to play with Flynn today it is supposed to be in the 40's here all weekend and Tipper can finally go out. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i went to the vet, but we just talked........i had a severe migraine during the night and was not able to make a decision at this time. the arthritis is getting better, but his wrist is deformed and will never heal. his wrist is already stiff, but the vet said that this is a good thing because the friction will go then. and the pain will too. he is disabled, but we will monitor him closely. his cc is totally gone now by itself after 6 months. today he "chased" a rabbit and tried to dig him out. we visit all his favorite locations and today we went to the riverside. the temperatures are still very high for the time of the year, so he went in the water as well [no swimming] playing with his ball. one day at a time.......
and thank you all for the prayers and help. nice to have such a cushing community. you all know what i am talking about....

[molly muffin]

That is great the Flynn got to play and chase ball today, even go after a rabbit! That is a good sign at least. Disabled can still be doable, they can learn to adjust what they can and can't do, as long as the pain is under control too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry you had a migraine they are awful. No wonder you did not want to talk to the vet. That is great about Flynn so maybe this is a good thing it happened this way. He will have to learn to adapt to what he is able to do now with this condition. So great to hear about him having fun and going after a rabbit. We have to take all the good we can get on here!! Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

his other frontleg is doing most of the work now, so we have to wait and see what that leg can handle.....but his hindlegs have more muscles now because of the hopping, so that is a plus. in his mind he is still a youngster.
thank you again for the emotional support.

[goldengirl88]

I am hoping and praying that this works for Flynn as it is such a shame to have to put him down when he is still so young at heart. Maybe he is going to compensate for the bad wrist. Dogs are so smart they know how to work things when they have problems. Hope the fish are doing ok. I truly hope Flynn can go on for quite a while, and learns how to deal with this bad wrist. I am sure he will surprise you one day with his miraculous turn around. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

he is finally sleeping relaxed now . he was lying on his belly before and could not find a relaxed way to lie down. he was moaning too. this morning he was shivering. i always read overhere that cushing dogs will chose to lie on cold spots. flynn had a thick coat, so he was always sleeping on the wooden floor or on a thin vetbed. this morning he looked cold, so i turned on the heater a bit and he finally stopped shivering. but he is never lying down near a heatsource [we call it radiators in dutch] even when he was shivering this morning. does this sound familiar with anybody? he ate well, normal p and p, but he looks a bit off in general. [he is off the ab for 2 days now]

[molly muffin]

Usually cush dogs are hot, not cold. Might be the joint was bothering him though. Just a thought.
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Do you think the pain was making him shiver? Like Sharlene said cush dogs are usually too warm. I had noticed though that Tipper does get cold at nite when it is extremely cold. She does not have as much hair as she used to either, maybe that is why. I sure hope this turns around for both your sakes. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i do not know if it is pain or cold or both. the moaning could mean discomfort. he has no undercoat anymore, so less isolation. i turn the thermostat lower during the night, and since the temperatures outside are so high now -even during the night- the heater will not have to work during the night .i will watch him tomorrow morning how he is doing.
the fish are happy again, i even spotted some new babyfish!

[goldengirl88]

The moaning could be that he is feeling discomfort I agree. It I so hard to read into these things sometimes and figure out what is wrong. It would sure be a lot easier if these babies could talk! Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i called the vet an hour ago, but he is somewhere on an emergency job. he still has not called back. flynn has an abces on his elbow that is open now. i did not noticed it untill i was grooming his coat this afternoon. he is such a hard dog on himself. he did not show anything. it looks bad.
the vet just called, he is in the clinic now.

[molly muffin]

Thinking of you and Flynn are you taking him in? Does it look infected? antibiotics maybe?

sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Let us know what the vet has to say and know we are right by your side.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry to hear this. I pray it can just be drained and treated. That may be why Flynn was shivering as it was hurting him. We are all there with you to support you. I am praying for you both for a good outcome. Please let us know how Flynn is doing. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

I am just patiently waiting to hear how your Flynn is doing. I am praying for the best. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

thank you for all the support. [internet was out for some hours] it was indeed the reason why flynn was shivering and in pain. it must have been a huge abces, because there was a big hole left. one could look just inside his elbowjoint...scary for me, but the vet was not that startled. he washed it out and he put some ointment [honeybased] in it and after that a big bandage. he saw a little infected spot on flynn's hock too. he treated that too and bandaged it too. he has 2 red legs now.
he just had ab for 10 days, so we will watch and see if he can manage it without ab. if he will develope a temperature, then he gets a special one. he has had too many ab last year already.
as flynn heared the sound of unwrapping the bandage, he thought the vet was opening a candybag and he begged for a treat.
always hungry those cushdogs!
he always surprises the vets by the way he bounces back from all the side-effects of cushing so far...........

[goldengirl88]

Such great news. I am glad the vet was able to patch Flynn up. No wonder the poor baby was shivering. God Bless him he keeps on going! I am thrilled this could be easily treated and he is on the mend. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

thank you patti, so far he is totally out and in "'a coma"' he has to catch up with some sleep. the bandage must stay on for 2 days and then to be changed. the vet gave me ointment and bandages so i can do it myself.
i fear all those bills, coming up......especially weekend visits are very expensive......luckily it is a country vet and he does not handle too fancy prices. i always get "'loyal customer"' discounts....

[molly muffin]

Glad to hear that the vet was able to get Flynn straightened out and clean that abscess out. I bet that he'll feel better in no time at all.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you sharlene, i hope so. he is sound asleep and isn't moaning anymore. so far, so good!!

[molly muffin]

That is very good that he isn't moaning. He is probably getting some much needed rest.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

the last hour he is awake and moaning again. i gave him some extra painkillers.

[doxiesrock912]

Awww:-) sleeping quietly. The vet apparently fixed him up.
Get some rest yourself.

[flynnandian]

i will, it is beyond bedtime already, but flynn's moaning is worrying me a bit.

[doxiesrock912]

He's started moaning again?
You mentioned that one abscess was quite deep. Could it be hurting him?
I would call the vet and ask if there should be pain and what you can give him.

Is he due for a bandage change so that you can look at the wound and make sure that it's healing and not looking red or infected?

[flynnandian]

it is monday 3.10 a.m. here and the bandage was fixed 4 p.m. yesterday. the vet said that it has to stay put till tuesday. unless there was swelling or severe pain. he is on a high dose of painkillers already. hope he feels better in the morning.

[doxiesrock912]

I'm thinking that you should take a look. If he's moaning, it's still hurting. Could the bandage be to tight? If there is intermittent swelling the bandage might be tight now.

[Trish]

Poor Flynn, he does sound miserable. I would have thought an abscess going right into a joint would most definitely need antibiotics, that does sound serious. If he is still crying it must be painful for the poor boy. I hope you can take him back to the vet if he has not settled. Good idea to check the bandage is not too tight for him. Hope he is feeling better in the morning.

[goldengirl88]

I would think any infection that could involve bone would be really painful. I am thinking this needs some time and major pain killer to get him thru the keeling of this. Poor Flynn I feel so bad knowing this is happening to him. I am hopeful he is going to be good as new once this infection is out of the way. That can make him feel badly all over with something like that in his blood stream. Praying he comes out of this like the champ he is. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

yesterday when we came back from the vet, he felt fine. a few hours later he started moaning again. later on, he slept the rest of the night. he had his short walk this morning at 8.30 and 12.30, but at 4 pm he collapsed. the vet confirmed what he already thought yesterday that there was already a sepsis going on despite the 10 day high dose of ab, nsaids plus painkillers.
he was not able to fight this infection anymore.
he went peacefully at 6.45 pm.
he was not able to live a real bordercollielife anymore.
he fought to the end, but couldn't win this anymore.

[doxiesrock912]

Omg!

I wasn't expecting to hear this at all.
I am in shock!
I'm so sorry. :-(

[goldengirl88]

Dear God I am so sorry, I never expected anything like this to happen to your sweet baby. He fought so hard, and this is so unfair. This is the worst news I could hear. He is pain free now and running with all the other Cushing's babies. Iam truly sorry, and hope you are able to get thru this. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Iris, I am so sorry to hear that his wound had gone sepsis. :( Bordercollies are so hard to keep settled too (much like the terriers) that he probably would have tried to go for as long as he could.
I know your poor heart is breaking at his loss and I am sure Ian is grieving too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Renee]

Oh my goodness! No!

I am so very sorry to hear this. Poor Flynn. He sounds like he was in so much pain towards the end, a peaceful passing must have been a mercy.

My thoughts are with you.

[BostonLover]

I am SO sorry. RIP sweet Flynn. :(

[Woodydog]

I,m so so sorry to read of the passing of Flynn, I,ll make sure Woody is there to great him.

Flynn - Run free little man, run like the wind cause you can now all the way to the bridge x

[frijole]

I am so sorry to hear this. Take comfort in that he is now running free of all pain. Run fast and free our dearest angel Flynn. Look down upon the ones you leave behind and know they loved you with all they had. You will be missed little guy. Kim

[beaglemom3]

My heart breaks for you! I am so very sorry to hear about your enormous loss.
RIP Sweet Flynn

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry for the loss of your precious boy. Flynn has been welcomed at the rainbow bridge by many of our fur angels. Run free Flynn, Run Free! xxxxxx

[Roxee's Dad]

I am so very sorry for your loss, Flynn knew he was loved so much. Rest in peace sweet boy, tonight you are amongst our newest and brightest stars in the night sky....

[flynnandian]

thank you all for the condolances. he is free from his cushing body now.
hope my other cushingdog ian [march 2001] will cope better with this disease.
it is strange not to have to monitor flynn anymore, not to set the alarmclock for his pills etc. the habbit is still there.
many of you who lost a cushing dog would recognise this i think.

- i noticed i can feel his ian's shoulderjoint now and his tail is coming higher due to muscle loss. his legs look thinner.
does this sounds familiar? he is still in pretty good shape, but i can see the changes.
and i read it somewhere on this forum with an other dog, but his nose is very dry now and cracked and some pink spots occurred.
he hasn't a cushingbelly, but there is "'flat fat"' on both sides behind his elbows. is any of your dogs having this? i'm getting suspicious of everything now..............lack of sleep and stress i quess.

[goldengirl88]

I am thinking of you dear friend. Yes the things you are saying about Ian is the muscle wasting. I am so sorry you are going thru this yet again. I know how you feel and missing your Flynn. What a shock that was to me, I can only imagine what you are going thru. It I s freezing here and 5 inches of new snow. Only 16 out and Tipper is doing better today, but I am worried about the damage to this leg. I am scared to death at the though of her undergoing an operation with all she has going on. I am trying to make her rest it, although that may be little help. I am so sick of having to figure out things going on and all these major decisions. God Bless You and you babies. Stay safe and warm.
Patti

[Trish]

I am very sorry to read this news of Flynn :( My condolences to you.

[scoora]

I am so very sorry to hear of the loss of your sweet boy Flynn.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs

[flynnandian]

yes, i have to go to the whole -taking care of a cushing dog thing- again and i fear his sister is slowly developing it too. i can now excercise them more, because the last months i could not walk as long as they wanted because of flynn.
and just like tipper they are gaining weight!
luckily, both the of the vetoryl "'leftovers"' i bought arrived today. enough for almost 2 months.
i want a moneytree too patti!!

[goldengirl88]

Again, I regret the fact that you must go thru this again. I know how darn expensive all this is . I am now looking at money for Tipper's leg. Just not sure what I can do here yet. I am going to take her to laser therapy and ask them what they think. I will have to make arrangements for her to get x rayed with my vet next week. I am just sick over all this. I truly hope you have a better New Year. I know sweet Flynn is looking down and watching over you and the other babies. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Thinking of you this New Years day and hoping that this year will be a better year.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Dawn Anderson]

Our dear friend , we all feel your pain and cry for your loss of your beloved Flynn. He tufted it out as long as he could thanks to all the love and care that you gave him. So many would have given up long ago, but you did not, you went that extra mile for him as you are going the extra mile for Ian. We are with you in spirit for we all understand how heavy the cross is that you are bearing.

My Buttercup has muscles that have wasted away from this, they use to be firm and taunt but know they are soft and loose and wiggle around when she shacks, not enough strength to jump in the car or up on my bed, just enough strength in her hind end to hop up on the couch. It is very sad and stressful all at the same time.

Buttercup and I are praying to the powers that be to give you the strength and support that your family needs during these VERY difficult times.

Many hugs coming your way
Dawn & Buttercup

[flynnandian]

thank you all, and dawn, i recognise it too the muscle loss, they look so different now. ian can't jump into the car anymore, and he is angry about it. he does not want to be helped. they don't understand why they can not do it themselves anymore.
ian is stiff and lame today and lookes tired. i gave him some of flynn's painkillers and he now wanted to go for a walk, so he is/was in pain.
a few weeks ago the vet thought maybe he had a herniated disc in his neck, he has a bit of a stiff neck. she palpeted him in the back and neck and bowed his neck sideways and up and down and he showed some pain then. but not as in hernia pain. more like sore muscles.
since i was too busy with flynn, i neglected ian's signs somewhat, but i notice some mobility problems now.
hope buttercups cc will improve soon, flynn had it too last summer, ian does not have it.

[goldengirl88]

Sorry Ian is having troubles from the muscle loss. When I look at my Tipper as she sleeps her head is skeletal, her body sunken in where the muscle is wasted and her ribs sticking out from no muscle to hold them in she is hardly recognizable form the strong power house she was. It is such a cruel disease to these babies and to the caretaker. This is the thing I have ever watched as my Tipper is as close to me as a human. It would be such a wonderful and human act if all the money we have paid to vets, they would turn over to research a cure for this disease. We need to stop this, and that takes research. With this running so rampant in the canine community I am amazed that so little is being done. I truly hope you can get Ian straightened out so his current health can be maintained. It is freezing her and snowing and we are in for a foot of snow yet today. Tuesday it is to be 0 degrees out. WE will be staying in except for our visit to the vet that day. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hello patti, i agree with you about the need of research for the treatment and cause of cushings disease. it seems they still don't know very much about it .
since i am watching ian more closely now, i recognise more of the symptoms you are describing from tipper.
besides from the knee trouble, has tipper a stiff gait too? it sounds that she is still jumping and running from what you describe. ian does not run anymore just trots and walks. however with the painkillers he has jumped on the couch today. he is doing better with them. so if he needs them in a low dosage i will keep him on it for a while now.
if it is fresh snow and not slippery, maybe you can allow tipper to play in it on a leash? it sounds like tipper is still a youngster in her mind. doesn't she behave cranky now? hope the weather will improve so you can have a safe ride to your and tippers appointments. is it a long ride? it is still "spring"' here. hope you and tipper sleep well tonight.

[goldengirl88]

I am going to call the vet hospital and see how much a Neurologist will cost me for Tipper. Please read my post this morning and you will see my IMS suggested one. Tipper is so bored and getting really cranky form all this being on the leash stuff. I am hoping Ian can do ok on these meds. It is a shame about the NSAIDS causing kidney and liver problems with dogs. I did read about that green lipped muscle extract however and it had very little as far as side effects. Maybe you can check into it? Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i read your post on tippers thread about the costs, maybe the suggested medical creditcard is something for you?
ian needs some more tests too, but i don't have the money too.
hope the exersices for tippers leg will help and she does not bite you and it will heal without an operation.

[flynnandian]

i looked up info about the green lipped mussel and if you feed tipper supplements already with glucosamine en chondroitine and omega 3, i don't think she will need it. but feeding the original mussel sounds interesting though. lots of nourishment and vitamins. also good people food. some dogs are allergic to it i read on a dutch forum.
i read about tippers former allergies, so maybe not a good idea if not necessary.

[molly muffin]

How is Ian doing?
How are you doing?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

hi patti and sharlene , ian is still on a low dosage of anti inflammary/painkillers. he is feeling much better now. in a few days i will test if he can do without them, but he is certainly feeling better now. so maybe he will need them permanently in a low dosage.
the weather is still like "'spring"'overhere unlike last year.
patti, i can understand so well that you are frightened for tipper. the disease and also ageing and above that all the money which you need to pay for those vet bills. i have a pile of them myself now.
in my country there are several companies who offer pet health insurances. but mine were very healthy till they got cushings at 10 and 12 years of age. did not see a vet for years.
i don't know if you can insure your pets in the usa?
it is still strange to not have to look after flynn anymore. i was so used to it. it was part of the daily routine. i still expect him to walk around the corner when making food for the dogs. it was always the highlight of the day for him.
but the other dogs are getting more attention now. i have to watch ian more closely now because of old age and cushings.
never a dull moment..................

[molly muffin]

Love the avatar :) Looks so happy there.

We're awaiting another snow storm to blow in tomorrow and then more frigid temperatures to follow that.
I won't be good for Patti and Tipper to be traveling in this weather, as they will have a lot of snow from this storm on top of what they already have.

Wow, imagine that, spring weather already, how strange. And the UK is getting blown to bits with rain and more rain.

How many dogs to you have? I do hope Ian continues to do well.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

hi sharlene, i have only two dogs left; ian and his sister enya. ian is not doing very well at the moment, he is not 100%. somebody told me there was kennel cough in this area. he has some symptoms of it.
i've always had more dogs because they were working/sportingdogs and when they retired, i bought a new pup to work with again.
i did obedience, agility, sheepdogtrials, and before ipo with my belgian shephard dogs.
slowly i am looking for a new dog again, but i am not sure about the breed i want. so many breeds do have serious health problems.
i do a lot of research, but you can not rule out everything.
how is the weather doing now? did the snow storm reach your town yet? it is still spring overhere. very weird.

[doxiesrock912]

Hi sweetie,

Kennel cough is highly contagious. I would get Ian to the vet asap and watch for the same symptoms with Enya.

Daisy had it as a pup and it progressed really quickly.

[molly muffin]

We had snow all day yesterday, then a bunch more over night, temperatures dropped very quickly and we had flash freezing, which turned everything next to the ground into ice. It has not been pleasant. I'd love to have some spring weather right now. Tonight, the wind chills will be closer to -40C brrrrrrr Molly and I are currently only going out into the backyard as there is at least some wind break back there compared to the front.

Eeek, kennel cough :( Hopefully Ian doesn't have it. Cushings dogs already have a fragile immune system.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

hi sharlene and valerie, ian is feeling better today. i still give him 30 mg norocarp [nsaid]. he needs it for his stiff legs and it also helps with the kennel couch. it is a mild variety of k.c. so far, so the vet agrees with the treatment with nsaids. i can go as far as 60 mg/day should he need it for 5 days.
we will try to avoid abs because he will need them in the future when he has an infection because of the cushings.
my flynn needed them in his last months, he could not handle infections anymore by himself.
an hour ago, when walking the dogs, i found an old man wandering in the streets looking for his car. he forgot where he left it.
finally we found the adress where he had visited a friend of his, but no car.
it was already almost midnight overhere so the friend was reluctant to answer the door. the old man was exhausted, but finally she opened the door and let him in. i recognised her, because she has a dog too.
she would take care of him, and bring him home, so he did not have to drive himself.
ian was very tired after the wandering outside, so i hope he will recover soon.
it is 2 am now so off to bed.

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh, I am so glad that you found someone who knew him. How scary that must have been for him.
What a sweetheart you are to help him out like that. Glad she did finally open her door too~!
Ian and you both had a full day it sounds like.
You'll have to have a recovery day tomorrow now :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

still awake, can not sleep. i have to work the whole day tomorrow so in 3 hours i have to go to work.........i am my own boss, so from 12.30-2 p.m. i am off from work. i can walk the dogs for an hour or so and have lunch. they don't mind staying home for a few hours.
still miss flynn a lot......so does the cat. they always slept together during the night.

[goldengirl88]

Hope you are well. I guess your cat really misses Flynn his sleeping buddy. This is probably still working on your heart and your mind about Flynn and it is making it hard for you to sleep. I am sure you will be tired at work. I am glad you are still having good weather there. It is so miserable here it is minus 17 or something it is really bad and the wind will not stop it is like 40 miles and hour. Take care and get some rest when you can. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

aww, sorry to hear you're having some insomnia. A lot has been going on lately, makes it hard to get good rest.
Awww, poor kitty wants his snuggle buddy. Can't blame him.

Glad you get a break tomorrow to recoup mid day.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

patti and sharlene, i am sorry that the weather is still bad. last year we had the same overhere, and now it is still 10-12 degrees [celcius] above freezingpoint [=0] in the weekend it will be 5, but still pretty "'warm"'.
it is 2 a.m. here now, maybe walking the dogs will clear the mind.
ian is not eating well and he does not want his pills. he is very suspicious now, but i bought a smelly can of cheap catfood and he is finally eating his vetoryl pill....yeh!! he is not couching anymore, so i hope his cushing appetite will come back, and i can hide his pills in his food again. luckily the norocarp pills are so called tasty pills-what an invention- and he likes them.
........and he just ate about 200 gram=6 ounces of green tripe. including his fish oil capsule..............................he is becoming a night owl too i quess.
i will send some tropical winds towards you and hope the snow will melt.

[molly muffin]

oh man I would take even a +5C. :) After out last cold spell that went through with the freezing ice storm, was that just last week or the week before, anyway, then we had a day that was 1C and I went out with just a light jacket on. After having the -25C stuff, that felt like a heat wave. :)

What is it about nights. I don't know if they clear your mind or not. I use to say, never send an email or make a serious decision after 2am, you'll regret it whatever it is, because you're seldom thinking clearly and are pure emotion by that time.

Hopefully Ian will be just fine and he just needs to settle back into a routine. He probably misses Flynn too, pack animals are like that, take away one and they get mopey too.

[flynnandian]

yes, flynn was the pack leader. he never needed a fight with other dogs, he just looked and made himself big, and off they went. he was very protective of ian and enya. he blocked the pushy dogs off and they felt safe with him at their side. there are so many pushy dogs these days, people are walking their dogs looking on their i-phones, they don't watch their dogs at all! no interaction, no contact.
they want a family dog, but don't have time to train or exercise it properly. overweight labs running trough your dogs...........
that is why i always take the car to go to the riverside or the forest. [only a 10 min drive] and hardly any dogs overthere. most people walk 10 min round the block.
tomorrow i will ask any of my elderly clients for a few sleepingpills........
off to bed now, it is only 4 am here.......

[goldengirl88]

I am hoping that Ian is going to be alright. I feel for you having another dog to worry over now. Things in life just aren't fair are they? I am glad you have a job where you basically do your own thing, especially with all the things you have had going on with the dogs. We are still having frigid temperatures and wind. Take care and get some rest. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, yes i decided to be my own boss because of the dogs. i want to take care of them myself. but i will be poor the rest of my life because it does not pay very well.
but the freedom of making my own working scedule and be able e.g. to walk the dogs myself makes up for it.
and patti, one day we will invent a money tree........
ian is doing pretty well. he can walk for 30 minutes now without a rest in between, so this is not bad i think. the other rounds are 10-15 min.
he remains stiff in his joints, but that is vetoryl and age i quess.
i hope that the fact that he is eating and drinking less is due to the vetoryl. that he is stable now. it is difficult to say. i will watch him closely. i was hoping for a break after flynn died, but ian decided otherwise. [he is a very modest dog]
how is tippers leg doing? any better? hope you and tipper sleep well this night.

[goldengirl88]

Well I had to make a decision between a job that had wonderful pay and benefits or my health. so now I struggle, but will make it somehow. I am glad you are able to walk your dogs etc. that means more than money. I am hoping Ian is in a good place for a while with the Vetoryl. I used to wonder years ago why Tipper as she got older never had problems with her back legs. They are like little springs and she could jump almost 6 feet in the air from a standing position. Now I know it was the cortisol keeping them form hurting. This disease is unlike anything I have ever dealt with, it affects every part of their body. It is worse than a cancer. I hope you got some much needed rest. Maybe Ian could snuggle with the cat and be buddies?? Glad you are still having good weather. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i know what you mean by this. one day they are jumping sky-high, the other day they are senior citizens because of the cushing.
the muscle loss and coat changes are giving them a whole new look. and not only on the outside, the disease is everywhere......but as long they are enjoying life............
when tippers leg is ok, she can hopefully run again and play ball etc.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/cushingflynn_zpsb2796b2a.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/cushingflynn_zpsb2796b2a.jpg.html)
this is an example of what you mean by wasting away of a cushingdog.
flynns last picture alive. [parking vet clinic]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/IMG_0490.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/IMG_0490.jpg.html)
with his catbuddie.

all in a few months time.....

[doxiesrock912]

Wow! What a difference.
I am so sorry.

[goldengirl88]

My God what terrible things this does to our babies. Poor Flynn her really hung in there as long as he could. God bless him he is no longer in pain. I am hoping Ian stay the course for a long time and that you can have some peace of mind for a while. I know when I look at Tipper and see the changes in her it makes me cry immediately. He head has become so boney and skeletal. In a way I wish she was a real furry dog, so I could not see all of this. It is hard to face when your best friend in the whole world is failing every day little by little. Now on top of all the other bills, I have to get money together to pay for 5 straight weeks of laser therapy. I need to do this as if this is Tippers best chance of recovery I need to get it done. I am slowly sinking in deeper with vet bills. I have over 500.00 of testing coming up at the vets and plus the three specialists at the veterinary hospital next week and now the laser therapy. I must do it as my Tipper is so deserving of the best care she can get. She is my biggest blessing in life. I hope you got caught up on sleep, and that Ian is having a good day. Maybe get the kitty a stuffed animal it can sleep and cuddle with. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Awww, poor Flynn, that was very quick, a month.

I love the picture of him with the cat. He looks like a happy guy there. :)

[flynnandian]

[p.s. sharlene it was not a month between the pics, but summer-winter, so about 6 months, but still his health went downhill very fast]
flynn was always a happy guy, never grumpy or anything, even when he was really sick.
he was an alpha male, so we had some fights [i never neuter my dogs] ,but after that, he knew where his place was, and he worked very well.
ian is doing better today, so hopefully he will go on for a while. ian and his sister enya were never a day apart from each other and are very close, so when one of them dies, the other will be lost.http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/ianenenya/IMG_2307.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/ianenenya/media/IMG_2307.jpg.html)
the money thing is bad, and i am appalled by what the vets charge you in the usa. i read some other topics and as far as i know, in my country, the prices are 50% lower. vet clinics are just big business. 600-700 dollar for just an acth-test and some bloodwork???????????
some client of mine bought me a kitty cushion [very sweet of her] and i put it on the spot where he was always sleeping with flynn.
flynns bed is still there, and after a while and some sniffing he lied down in it. so far so good....
patti, i hope after these tests tipper will need no more for the next 10 years or so and you can have some rest. [we will always worry though]
sleep well all of you. i hope i will.

[doxiesrock912]

How sweet that picture is with the two of them :)

I'm glad that Ian finds comfort in the kitty bed. They feel a loss just as badly as we do.

[flynnandian]

hi valerie, ian is not sleeping on the kitty cushion, but the cat is.......since he always slept on this spot with flynn. ian is always sleeping with his sister......
hope your daisy's alk. phosph. will come down with the higher amount of trilostane. isn't that dangerous when this level is so high?

[doxiesrock912]

Oh! I'm sorry, I got confused.
It is if other things on the test showed impaired liver function but they did not and she noticed that Daisy's liver has decreased in size.

[flynnandian]

ok, that sounds good. daisy; keep up the good work!

[goldengirl88]

What a precious picture of your babies together. That is good the kitty has something to sleep on. I am so glad that Ian is holding his own, and I pray he does for a long time to come. Tipper was a bit better on her leg yesterday from the laser therapy. She really worked on her leg good. She said she should be good in about 5 weeks. I will never let her in my room alone again. She will never get the opportunity to jump on my bed. I am so anxious about this testing next week I cannot sleep to good. I am praying this tumor has not grown, as I don't know how I will drive home a nervous wreck. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

I've been away but wanted to express my sorrow for the loss of our sweet Flynn. He fought so hard as did you and I am just so sorry he couldn't beat this. You gave him a wonderful life and I know he left this old world on the wings of your love which he will carry with him til that day you meet again.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Grace and all our Angels.

[flynnandian]

at first; thank you leslie!
ian is more stable now, and patti, i recognise what you tell me about tipper wanting to jump on the bed herself. ian wants to jump in the car, but he can't do that anymore. today after our walk along the riverside, he ran away because he did not want to be helped.
he certainly feels stronger now. it is just -2 degrees celsius now, so we do have some wintertemperatures right now. during daytime it is about +5.
just dream about possitive testresults and your dreams will come true!
can't your doctor prescribe you something relaxing for those testdays to come, which allow you to drive with? just a thought....

[goldengirl88]

Some how I will make it thru this. I think that is one of the best things I get from my father is strength. I can pull it out when I have to, so I am counting on that to get me thru next weeks ordeal. I feel really bad that Tipper must see 3 Dr.'s then when we get back have all that testing at my vets. I may have to give her a break in between or she is going to have a nervous break down from vets. I hear what you are saying about Ian. Tipper is the same way she comes from the doggy group that wants no help and gets really aggravated if you make her let you help. She would run off if she could also to stop me from helping her. Tipper is definitely strong willed to day the least. I am glad though that Ian is feeling good enough to go on his walks etc. These dogs are such a huge part of our every day life that I wonder what I did with all my free time before all this started. It is dark, drizzling, and the wind is really starting up so we will have snow Monday. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

yes, we have the "'girlpower"'. we are alone with our dogs and we are the only ones that can take care of them. in their minds they are still strong willed indeed. ian is getting stronger every day now, so it is more difficult to convince him he needs help.
but i also think this is what keeps them going. they really want to go on with their lives.
i am sorry for you that that the weather will change to snow again.
ian hates vets and gets very stressed out too. it sounds better indeed to give tipper a break between vet visits. does she put up a fight when she has to enter the clinic? does she likes car rides or do they make her suspicious of what is coming next?
it sounds as if tipper is still in pretty good shape and she will surprise us all with good testresults.

[goldengirl88]

I try to take Tipper in the car with me other places, but she has been at this vets so many times and it is a 40 mile round trip. She knows every inch of it, every turn and every time you put the turn signal on she knows which way we will turn. No fooling her. I go in the vets and leave her in the car. I wait until they are ready for her and get her real fast and take her in. Other wise she is trembling so much she looks like she will have a break down. I am glad that Ian sounds like he is doing well. That is all we can hope for is for them to be as well as possible and be happy. You have had a lot with you sweet Flynn passing and I am praying every day that Ian keeps on going and we celebrate his birthday next year. This is such a cruel disease, and in epidemic proportions if you ask me. Tipper is starting with the hunger at nite and I am wondering if her cortisol is creeping up again. She is on 28mg and may have to go back to 30 after this next ACTH test I guess we will know where we stand. Hope your weather holds out and stays nice. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i leave my dogs in the car too till it is their turn to come in, less stress indeed!
ian is on 30 mg. now. [2mg/kilo] the water intake and appetite are back to normal after increase from 20 to 30 mg. i don't have to walk every 3 to 4 hours anymore.
do you give the trilostane once or twice a day? do you give her some food before going to sleep?
after all the worrying with flynn, i hope that ian will stay stable for a long time.....maybe he will even lose some weight........
the weather is still ok overhere.
wish you both a good night sleep.

[goldengirl88]

I do give Tipper something to eat before bed as she get real bad gastro symptoms if she does not eat something. Do your dogs get that too? I think that is the best way to leave them in the car as they get so anxious with all the other animals in one room together. Maybe this is a really good dose for Ian and he will do well on it for some time. Lets hope so anyway! Warm and going to rain here. I will be up at 4am as I have to travel to my hometown to see my Dr first thing in the morning. I never sleep well the nite before as I am always afraid of sleeping in. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

up at 4.......that is early...... but sleeping in is a risk indeed. hope the doctor will be satisfied with your health. busy week for you.
glad that the weather is better now so you can have a walk with the dogs.
ian is doing fine on 30 mg of vetoryl, but he is back to being a picky eater. makes giving the pills difficult. he is more suspicious now.
i read in an other topic that tipper is always very hungry.
was she always like that? fortunately my dogs do have "'concrete"' stomachs because of eating barf their whole lives. i've never fed my dogs anything else. it is pretty common in my country. you have to know what you are doing of course. you can even buy it [frozen] in the supermarket]
hope the visits tomorrow and wednesday to your doctors [yours and tippers] will go well, and after that some well earned rest!

[goldengirl88]

Tipper has always been a hungry girl, but never had weight on her like this and it was not the kind of hunger she has now. Never met a Jack Russell that would turn down food. They are eating machines. I am curious what this stuff is you say you by in the supermarket, what exactly is it? I am hoping Ian can stay on the 30mg as then you are into compounding the next dosage as the next in Vetoryl would be too high. Got to go sleep. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

the good thing about eating machines is that the pills go in easy i quess.
in all the supermarkets you can buy raw sort of dog hamburgers for small dogs [about 100 gram/4ounces each] in different tastes. for the bigger dogs there are packages of raw minced meat also in different tastes. and most of the time chopped cow's heart, chicken hearts and liver, small fish for cats etc. at the pet store they have more expensive brands and kilo rolls [frozen]. i buy it somewhere else, it is much cheaper overthere. private persons with their own freezing facility at home. it is big business. you can also buy whole rabbits, duck. goose, rodents, salmon, whatever you want.......and dried animal parts for a snack. it is a "growing industry"'.
for people who are used to feed kibble, it sounds odd maybe, but i have never fed my animals anything else.
again lots of strenght tomorrow with all the appointments and we will be going to hear only good news tomorrow i hope.....
sleep well!

[goldengirl88]

Thank you so much for your kindness and thinking of my Tipper this has taken a load off my mind, but am still apprehensive about the seizures. She had some more last nite. We were at the hospital for 12 hours and I had several melt downs. Has to start over from scratch on Tipper's ACL as they messed it up in the hospital and the therapist worked it out yesterday, but was unhappy they did this and set her back. I am hoping all is still good with Ian. How are you doing and how is the weather now? Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i can understand that you and tipper must be exhausted after 12 hours driving/hospital in one day! and having some break downs while you have to wait during tippers physical exams.......i can understand that too! and the fact that her leg was worse afterwards......[and the bills..]
hope the new meds will work for tippers seizures.
the temp. are still very high an the dogs are shedding like crazy because of it. you can knit a whole sweater from it.
i am looking for a ramp so the dogs can walk into the car by themselves. but since ian hates everything out of the ordinary.........i fear he will be afraid of it . he is "a wimpy kid" in those things.
it is only 4.40 am so...........................bedtime.
and sleep well for you and tipper.

[goldengirl88]

Maybe that is a new business to start making things out of dog hair! I better think of making money somehow as these bills are really outrageous. This cat is simply amazing, she is more dog like than anything. How is Ian holding up? Hope you are able to get some rest now that he is doing fairly well. I hope this works out for the cat as she is one of the nicest cats I have ever seen. It is snowing out and about 2 inches on the ground. Tipper's leg is a little better today. She is getting rested up for Wednesday BP check, and Thursday therapy for her leg. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, so the snow is back...i will send some spring temperatures from here towards you....but....i saw a tic in ian's fur in his neck. they are still alive because of the high temp.
hopefully the cat's health will be ok and she will be getting along with your other cats.
does tipper need more laser therapy because of the fact how the hospital mistreated her leg?
ian is still doing wel on 30 mg vetoryl. i "met"' with someone on the internet and she ownes a whippet with cushings.
we were able to buy 189 pills of vetoryl [60 mg] for only 100 euro. [=136 us dollar] and are sharing the costs of having them split into 15 mg capsules, so we can give them twice a day to our dogs.
ian is getting restless for an hour or 2 when it is time for his vetoryl. i think 2x day will suit him better.
apart from being a bit stiff in all of his legs, he is back to normal.
only 7 weeks after he crashed and was diagnosed with cushings, and the kennel couch has healed without abs, so he is still a strong guy!

[molly muffin]

This is great news that Ian is doing so well. The crash and kennel cough were kind of scary, so this is really good.
That is very cool that you've met someone that you can split cost with for the vetroyl and then have the pills split to the correct dosage. That will be easier for both of you I'm sure.
No spring weather here yet. I wish. I am not a particularly good winter person. :( I lived in Hawaii for 4 years and in California for many years too, throw in Tennessee and I like a winter that is short if it happens at all.
Most of my family drive to Tahoe, Big Bear or somewhere to get their winter fix and then back to the coast.
Molly loves the cooler temperatures, but not the blistering cold that we get here. When it gets too cold, she does her thing and then turns around and head back for the door and her warm comfy home. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[flynnandian]

yes sharlene, i am glad ian is doing well [after all that happened with flynn] and that i found someone to buy vetoryl with and she knows a laboratory who will split the capsules for us. we both have enough for 7 months now...
luckily people sell their vetoryl "'leftovers"' on the internet.
i can understand that canadian winters are not your favorite season after living in hawaii and california......did molly live there with you?
if she does not want to walk in the harsh weather than there is not much you can do [except being happy that you don't have to walk either...].
are you and your husband feeling better now? [it was you who suffered from whooping couch right?]
i suffered from it 15 years ago, and it left me with a-typical asthma
attacks.

[molly muffin]

Hi, no molly didn't live in Hawaii with me. She is actually from Quebec, a rescue that we got after our golden passed away.

In Hawaii, I had a couple different rescues that I fostered and a cat that was also a rescue as a baby. He came back to the mainland with me, and I got my golden retriever. Those two grew up together and traveled, lived their lives together and passed within a couple months of each other. Then came molly. :)

No, Kathy has the whooping cough, I had the flu, and hubby has pneumonia. I'm much better, hubs is getting there, slowly. I hope that Kathy is doing better. Whooping cough is horrible and much worse than the flu, I think. It last longer and is much harder on the body and to recover from. How awful that you had it too. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

They aren't allowed to sell vetroyl over the internet here, ebay, etc. You can't resell medications here, so there aren't very many options when it comes to getting pet medication. I think it is even more difficult in Canada in that we don't have all the internet options that is available in the states.

I'm really glad that you have that option where you live. Some simply cannot treat as they can't afford it and no options like that available to them. I think that is heart breaking. :(

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

I am so glad that you got enough meds for Ian for 7 months that is fantastic. That is good to know you don't have to worry about that for a while. Yes Tipper has to have 5 weeks and maybe more of intensive laser therapy because of the hospital not listening to me. She was with so many different techs it is hard to know who did it. I am watching snow come down just real fine. We are to get sub zero again next week so Tipper will not walk again then. I am a bit more relaxed knowing her testing was mostly good. This worrying can wear you down. Big Hugs to you and all the furbabies form Tipper and I. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi sharlene and patti, i believe it is not allowed in my country either to sell meds on "'the dutch ebay"' either, but sometimes they manage to put the vetoryl ad on it.
because of that, i did put an ad on it asking for vetoryl and they did not delete it so far.....
i have some strips of thyroid medicin from flynn, which i will donate to a rescue pound, but since vetoryl is so expensive, i can understand why people want to sell those capsules. i would do so too.
i am sorry that you both are still in the polar temperatures.
it is about +8 celsius here.
tippers testresults sound really good indeed. after her leg has healed, she will be a puppy again....
the rest is just aging i quess. we "'40+ ladies"' all suffer from it...............[at least i do...ha, ha!!]
and again it is 2.14 am overhere, so walk the dogs and bedtime.

[goldengirl88]

Yes we are not allowed to sell meds here and if someone saw them would probably report us for doing it. I am glad someone else will benefit from Flynns thyroid meds. I took Tipper to the vets for her Adequan shot this morning. It would be easier if her gave me an apartment above the place it would save all the driving!! Tipper gets these shots every 3 weeks for her Trachea and legs and back. It does help a great deal. I think I need a couple myself!! I am hoping Ian is still doing well on this dosage and getting around good. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

maybe you can marry your vet................everything for free........
i will google on those adequan shots, don't know if they are available in europe. glad they do benefit tipper.
ian is feeling so strong now, he thinks he can do everything by himself again e.g. jump into the car. but he can't! he is very pissed at me when i need to help him. he does not understand it.
the dog ramps i found are so heavy and take away a lot of space in your car. and the good ones are very expensive.....
i hope you [and i] will have a good night sleep despite everything going on....

[goldengirl88]

I should have gone to school for it when I was younger but my mother nixed that. I should have married one instead and could have free vet care which would be unreal. Tipper is doing better and I am glad to hear that Ian is stronger. It takes away so much worry when they are doing well. WE are to get real bad and real cold weather coming and I have to go out tomorrow and take Grace, and Thursday to take Tipper to therapy. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

so i read you are expecting more bad weather coming up. and it is only january! hope the roads will be clean so you will have a safe drive to the vet and tippers leg therapy.
distraction.......i just saw ian biting at a spot on his hip....hot spot!! just what we need right now! i have to lure him into the bathroom so i can lock him up and have a proper look at it, but since he is a wimpy kid this won't be easy. plus i have to put a pipet with anti flea drops [advantage] in his neck. also with sister enya and the cat. they won't like it...........but because of the spring weather fleas and ticks are still alive.
and some stray cats outside from the nearby farm who don't look very healthy and bingo.....[ living on the edge of a small village]
not happy right now!

[molly muffin]

hi, try a tea compress on the hot spot and see if that helps. Sometimes it does.

Yes, it's cold here and where Patti lives, and most of the others in the northern parts. :(

Currently it is -18C temp and -25 wind chill where i am. Walks are shorter for sure.

Saw you are at +5C, heaven! LOL

Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

thank you charlene +5 is also heaven for those mini critters that will prey on your cat and dog. last year we had snow and ice till the end of march. this year it is "'spring"' so far.
low energy bill this year i hope.....
i gave ian half a pill of norocarp/carprodyl from flynn and an advantage pipet in his neck, but since he has gained weight, i think he will need a stronger one. this one is for 4-10 kg dogs. he is about 14 kg right now.
stay warm in freezing cold canada!

[goldengirl88]

I am really happy that Ian is doing so well. You needed this after the heartache with sweet Flynn. I can imagine the ticks and fleas are out if you are having spring. Don't need those critters in your house next! Hurry up and find me those money tree seeds as Grace is going to have a whopper of a bill at the end of the month!! Hoping I have no more problems with Tipper in between as that stint at the animal hospital wiped me out again. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

bills, bills, vetbills........we need a whole forest of them [money trees i mean]. here one bill ; euro 209, the other one 253! [with discount]
ian has a big hotspot since yesterday, but i cleaned it up myself and it is dry now. so far no infection and no vet visit [yet] i give him half a pill norocarp/carprodyl 50 mg from flynn. luckily they are so called tasty pills.
hopefully the laser- treatment will do the trick for tippers leg.
is she doing better now?
have to go to bed though, so sleep well!

[goldengirl88]

Oh Gheez I guess that means mom is going to have to bring home more bacon!! These vet bills are ridiculous aren't they? It is more than paying for yourself to go to the Dr. I hope that hot spot on Ian is gone for good, you do not need any more expense or worrying. We are to be hit with another front in a few days bringing more snow and even colder weather. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

more cold weather...yehh...just what you need right now.
and for the bills...............grrmmm......
the hotspot is pretty big, but looks "'good"' so far, but being a cushing dog and being susceptible to skin infections, i am a bit worried though.
hope tipper has no more/less seizures tonight and you both get some rest.
do you have a break from vet visits for now? and no doctor appointments for yourself i hope. try not to catch the flu from your neighbour when you are helping him out....your animals need you!
we can not afford to get sick, since we have no back up. [ at least i don't]. have to walk the dogs for the last time in the drizzle and finally go to bed.

[goldengirl88]

Well Tipper did have a few smaller episodes last nite. She is moving around the bed a lot so I am suspect the cortisol is climbing. I am going to have no recourse but to put her on the 30mg that made her pre number go low. She is at 28 mg now. I am hoping that spot on Ian gets no worse. He is doing so well he does not need a skin infection. It is so frigid out I cannot believe this weather and to get colder next week. Tipper and I went to laser and the roads were getting bad on the way home and snowing like crazy. Her leg is getting better. One more session next Thursday and then she goes back to once every 3 weeks unless this leg acts up some more. The laser therapist gave the ok for her to be lose in the house so we will try I out slowly as Tipper does everything full throttle. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

it sounds good so far with tippers seizure activity . did you notice any difference since you give her a full pill?
and her leg improving too!
it is a pity that you still can not walk tipper. it would make her more quiet in the house i quess.
ian's hot spot is itchy, so it is healing, but it makes him a bit restless because of it.
last walk and off to bed!

[goldengirl88]

Tipper had quite a few smaller seizures last nite. I am not convinced this medicine is doing anything, but challenging me mentally. Her leg is a lot better but I would not say 100%, probably never will be. She jumped yesterday and I caught her. She is so hard to stop she is just like a tiny bulldozer. She was throwing her toys all around yesterday and up in the air to show me her level of frustration. I did get the point! We have 40 mile and hour wind, snow coming down terrible and about 7 degrees. It is so miserable out it is like the Arctic here. I have a few days without appointments so I need to get some stuff done around here. No home for Grace yet. I called a cat rescue near me to see if they knew of anyone no luck there. I will keep trying. She needs to be with a middle ages woman who is devoted to her, she wants attention and is so sweet she deserves it. Hope Ian is still healing on the hot spot and having a good day, and you too. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

ian's hotspot has to be treated, but he gets very, very stressed!
he cried out loud, having a panic attack.
i really wish i did not have to do this. i hope this was the last time. i do not want him to hate me for it. he is avoiding me already. not good!
hopefully tipper can regain a good use of her leg without surgery! so she can have her daily walks when the weather is getting better.
i can understand she is frustrated now. [so will you i quess]
hope you will find a good home for grace soon. she will need the extra space and attention.
i once had a cat with FIP virus which started as corona virus and she crashed on an intestinal bleeding at age 10. my other cat never showed any signs, but the vet said he must have been a carrier. he died of old age at 18 never showing any signs of fip.
what does the vet say about keeping her and introduce her to your own cats. what is the risk of grace spreading the virus?

[goldengirl88]

Does I an get real bad if he ahs to go to the vets? I hate that they get so stressed as I feel that can harm them a lot too. I try to keep Tipper's visits to as few as possible, but she always has something going on. I am hoping they give you something to treat this and it goes away for good. With these dogs prone to CC I would not want it to turn into anything like that. Tipper continues to have small seizures at nite. I thought they would stop, wishful thinking. The vet said there is a 30% chance Grace could spread this to my cats and I cannot do that to them. My one cat will be 13 and I love him dearly. Very hard situation to deal with. I am the one who rescued her so I must now make sure she gets a good, safe, forever home. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

not a day without worrying about our pets. old age and cushings.....double trouble.
your own cats do come first, and if there is any risk, i won't introduce grace either.
i did not take care of ian's hot spot today since it looked dry.
i do not want him to be afraid of me. he does not seem to have a fever so i leave him alone. he eats well and wants to go out for a walk [in the rain]. [they never want to p and p in the garden]

[molly muffin]

Have you tried a tea compress on the hot spot? Sometimes that makes them feel better and it shouldn't hurt them at all you do it.

It's hard when you want so much to help out, like with Grace, but have to be careful of your own cats too. :( Very sad. I do hope that Patti can find her a good home.

You're having rain and we're having snow tonight. Joy joy, I just went out and shoveled down to the street, so at least it won't be as bad in the morning, if we get more.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

That tea sounds like a good thing. Is I an licking at it? I am not letting Grace out of this room until I find a perfect person for her. If I had no cats this would be a no brainer as she is just like a dog. We are still having bitter cold and snow, so rain sounds nice right about now. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

yes patti and sharlene, we do have the rain and wind and you do have all the snow and also wind of course.
at least i don't have to shovel ...............i can step into my car-no ice to remove from the windows- and off i go.
ian is very upset , even if i only want to look at his hotspot, so no tea compress,[too much stress] but i will keep it in mind . it sounds interesting and i had never heared of it. i like doing things the natural way so good tip.
hope you all have a good night sleep.

[goldengirl88]

That's a shame that you cannot get near Ian. I feel so bad as I know you want to take a look at that spot. Has he always been real touchy about things like that or just since he got Cushings? I am glad you do not have our weather I think it is 15 below 0 this morning here. Tipper goes for her testing tomorrow so I hope the weather is better. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, he is and was always touchy indeed. not a tough guy! his mom was more like tipper sounds. his sister is something in between those characters.
-15 sounds really cold.........is this normal for your area?
hope the outcome of tippers tests will be ok. is your cat ill or also tests for him?
sleep well and we will wait for your report on your vet visit.

[goldengirl88]

I forgot to get urine from Tipper this morning so that means another trip to the vet this week for me at least. I am getting my oldest cat an early detection profile, he gets one every 6 months to make sure there is nothing starting to go wrong and that we catch whatever early. Also since I read that cats that come from breeders can have exposure to corona virus, I want to check and see if he has had exposure because then Lucky the other cat would have it form him and Grace could stay. Just a shot in the dark at saving her form leaving I guess, but who knows what will happen??? Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i can only tell you that i had one cat with corona virus which developed into FIP. she died suddenly at age 10 because of internal bleeding. my other cat never showed any symptoms at all. he died at the age of 18.
my vet said it had all to do with resistance to virusis. some cats are in better shape to fight them then others.
so friday you will know if you can keep grace yourself?
ian is doing ok, his hotspot is healing fine. with the hotspot and the shedding, he is not looking like mr. world.
it is cold outside with - temperatures right now, but the weather forecast says it will be +5 this weekend again. no real winter yet.

[goldengirl88]

Well I guess Friday will tell the tale if the other two were exposed to it. I am still looking for a place for Grace, but have found no one suitable yet. She deserves a forever home and I am running into flippers. They are people that come and get free pets and sell them for money, and I will not let that happen to her. Tipper slept last nite with some seizure activity but not too much. She was exhausted from at the vets. Glad Ian's hot spot seems to be doing well, I hope he has no other problems as this vet care is too expensive anymore. Our weather is calm this morning after all the wind gusts at 50 miles an hour yesterday. It actually blew the snow into big snowballs all over the ground. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

there always will be people who want to make money by selling animals to laboratories or kennels. hope it is possible for you to keep the good and bad people apart.
i always brought the pups i sold to their new homes so i was able to see where the new owners were living. they had visited them several times before at my place though. maybe you can tell the people that want grace that you will bring her over, so you can check her new place. not good-no grace....
i did the same with the ponies i used to sell. i always wanted to know where they were staying after selling them.
glad to hear that the weather is a little better.
the weather is still cold [freezing], so no long walks today for ian. saturday it will be +5 again.
sleep well!

[goldengirl88]

Well I must get an ad together for Grace as much as it pains me. I will weed out the bad people. This just kills me, but cannot jeopardize my cats lives. I will have to thoroughly clean out this room and disinfect it as I read corona can live in carpet for 2 months. I will clean and keep out both catsfo4 months. Tipper was ansy at laser. It seems that she did not want her back touched so I am suspect of it hurting with the weight pulling down from no muscle to hold up the belly. I am glad to hear Ian is still well. Can you get a look at the spot lately? Hope it has healed. Our weather was good this morning and Tipper had a ball walking she was so happy. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

hi patti, ian's hotspot is healing fine, there are already new hairs growing on the spot. yesterday i tried to stop giving the painkillers, but he was stiff again and walked slowly. today on half the dosage he was fine again. he apparently needs them. so be it.
ian also has a sore back at the same spot as tipper i think. he does not want to be touched there either. positive is that his belly is shrinking since he is on 30 mg of vetoryl. and he is loosing weight.
his appetite is back to normal [picky] and so is his drinking pattern.
he still looks like an old doggie though [which he is of course] but so far so good.
hope the weather stays ok, so you and tipper can walk again. they really need it to be happy!
more work for you after grace has left. is there anyone who can do the heavy duty things for you? or maybe rent a carpet cleaning machine. hope someone will give grace a good home soon.

[goldengirl88]

Great that Ian's spot is healing. I guess he will have to stay on half a dose of the pain meds to get around if he gets stiff. The weather is holding up here and Tipper has walked again this morning, she loves it. She has a lot of seizure activity last nite, I kept waking her to stop it. It still scares me. I am waiting to hear back from the neurologist as I sent him a progress report. Still looking for someone for Grace I hope she gets a new home soon as I am becoming attached to her. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

so the seizure pills did nothing for tipper? or maybe worked a little bit? i am curious what the neurologist will say about it.
glad you and tipper had a chance to walk again. they need it to stay happy. do you walk in the neighbourhood or is there a park nearby?
my christmas cards are still hanging on the wall, so i will have something to do tomorrow. i fell behind with everything.
ian does not want his fish oil pill today, maybe the old peanutbutter trick will work. he believes i want to poison him i think.
last walk for the doggies, it is dry outside..............so hurry.

[goldengirl88]

I think the pills may have seemed to help a little, I have not heard from the neurologist yet though. We walk in the neighborhood, but it is really cold this morning so we may be able to go this afternoon depending on the temperature. Tipper was restless again last nite. I cannot wait to get this thyroid testing over with. Did you notice your dog drinking and peeing more on the thyroid meds? Hoping Ian is still doing well today. Blessings
Patti

[flynnandian]

i can not say if flynn was drinking or peeing more on the thyroid pills, since he was already drinking more because of the cushing going on, which we did not know at that moment.
a month later there was cc coming up, so the vet suspected cushing and the thyroid problem being a result of this disease. which was correct..
the pills did work fine for him though.
ian is doing fine, and i hope he will doing so for a long time. it will give me a break after the rollercoaster with both flynn and ian. i am pretty tired right now!
i hope the trip and visit to the vet for you and tipper will be ok.
i will read it in tippers thread.