Introducing; Sophia 8-year old Italian Spinone

[Karenh]

Hello Everyone,
I'm glad I found this site. We adopted our 8-year year old Italian Spinone from the SPCA in late June. We were told she had a newly diagnosed thyroid condition, which she does. But all was not well after a couple of months on the medication. We have confirmed that she also has pituitary-dependent Cushings. Her vet put her on Selegiline and it isn't working great. Though she is much improved since her adoption. She has regained mobility (she wasn't given exercise in her previous situation) but remains food obsessed and drinks lots of water. Bach flowers have been consistently helpful in reducing her stress/upsets. Her hair is now thinning (added to the classic bald spots on her sides and belly). She was taking Chinese herbs when first diagnosed but we let that lapse. We will be discussing the other pharmasueticals with her vet as well as getting back on the Chinese herbs.
This illness should also be knows as "Money Pit". :) Karen in Victoria, BC, Canada

[Trixie]

Hi Karen,
Sorry you are experiencing health issues with Sophia. I love Spinones..they are a spirited breed. How nice you were able to rescue and offer Sophia a good home and tlc.
I know the real experts here will want as much info as you can provide. Is it possible for you to get as many test results as you can and post the abnormal numbers and normal values from your tests here? There will be more help and suggestions available to you if everyone can see just what your dogs numbers are.
My dog is doing very well on Vetoryl. She is 9 and was diagnosed last March. There are also people on the forum who have had successful experiences with Lysodren. I can't speak to the positives or negatives of Selegiline but perhaps others will chime in on that
Yes...super expensive, especially at the start. Once controlled the bills are not quite as bad as all the preliminary testing is.
Others will be answering you post soon..maybe you have some test numbers available to you without having to get them from the vet? :)

Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Karen,

Welcome to you and Sophia from me as well, and I am so glad you found your way here.

Cushing's can be a difficult disease to get a confirmed diagnosis for because other non-adrenal illnesses share some of the same symptoms as Cushing's plus there isn't one test that is 100% accurate at diagnosing Cushing's.

Has Sophia's thyroid levels been rechecked lately? And if so, have they been normalized for a while? Besides the increased drinking/appetite does Sophia display any other symptoms? If you could get your hands on copies of all tests that were done and post all abnormal results that would be great.

If Sophia does have Cushing's, I want you to know that it is a treatable disease but success does depend on keen owner observation along with a vet/IMS that is knowledgeable and experienced in the treatment protocols for Cushing's.

Here's a handy link to our Resource Forum where you will find a wealth of information regarding Cushing's: Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10) Please feel free to print anything out. ;) If you have any questions at all do not hesitate to ask them.

Hugs, Lori

[Karenh]

Thanks Barbara and Lori for your welcomes and offer of assistance. I hope to get the lab results tomorrow from Sophia's first vet (who went on 4 months leave without telling us!). We are seeing another very good vet on Wednesday at the clinic I take my special needs cat to (how do they find us ;-). I'll post the results when I get them. I suspect we will putting her on Trilostane on Wednesday. Our chinese medicine vet agreed that Sophia's Cushings is so extreme that she needs more than the chinese herbs and accupucture that she is using on other dogs with milder symptoms. Her other symptons to needs for constant water and food are hair loss and thinning and stress/anxiety. The Helpful Resources are excellent! Thanks.
hugs, karen

[Karenh]

Hello again,
We went to another vet to get Sophia on Trilostane/Vetoryl -- but the vet wanted to try Sophia on other type of Chinese herbs. It was a total failure as it increased her diarrhea to a 'clinical' form. So we will be beginning the Trilostane on Monday January 6. I am worried she won't be up to it. She is now developing mobility issues, I think due to ligament/tendon weakness. Our hardwood floors are now covered with rubber backed carpeting from the hardware store ;-)
Have others experienced this loss of mobility? Does it come back with the treatment? We met someone at the doggy field who regretted treatment due to her dog having increased arthritic pain after loss of all the cortisol.
Happy New Year! Karen

[flynnandian]

increased arthritic pain is certainly a side effect of vetoryl. my flynn could not use it anymore because of this. he contracted severe arthritis in his bones. if your dog has arthritis and you want to start with vetoryl, just start on a very low dose to try it out. my dog showed this side-effect within 24 hours. and he never got his mobility back.

[molly muffin]

You'll have to see how Sophia does on treatment. Too low of cortisol and you can have arthritis issues show up, not treating at all, and the muscle will continue to waste and the drinking, peeing, ravenous for food, also continues. It is a fine balancing act.

You never did post the test results from an ACTH test, or blood work. However, do start low, at say 1mg per 1lb, give with food, even before ACTH test. Do a test at 10 - 14 day and at 30 day mark.

If she shows signs of going too low, stop vetroyl immediately and schedule acth test.

Those are some of the basic rules to follow when starting medication.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Renee]

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for adopting! :)

If your pup truly does have cushings, then the only way to control symptoms is to lower cortisol. I don't think any chinese herbs will truly do that. You might consider meeting with a veterinary internist, rather than a holistic vet - at least in terms of properly treating the cushings.

[Karenh]

Hello Everyone,
Thank you for your thoughtful replies. It truly is a fine balancing act -- control the Cushings but not give her arthritis pain.
She is booked to begin the Vetroyl on Monday. I will ensure that is the low dose as Sharlene recommended. Sophia is a big dog - over 100 lbs - so even at 1mg/lb it will be a sizeable dose.
She had the ACTH test but I cannot see amongst all the data which is the number to post here. I'll check with the vet on Monday. But two vet confirmed the ACTH test to indicate Cushings. The plan is to re-do the ACTH test at the 14-day mark.
Another question: have any of you experienced GI issues with your Cushings dog? Could the high rates of cortisol in her system be contributing to her diarrhea?
Karen

[molly muffin]

Diarrhea could be caused by colitis, IBD (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), baceterial infection in gastro system, etc. When on vetoryl it could also be a symptom of when the cortisol goes too low.

Does she currently Have diarrhea? I think I'd want that straightened up before starting the vetroyl.
You can try giving florifora, (a probiotic) with food, and Metronidazole is often helpful.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Karenh]

Thanks for the insights and for acknowledging the diarrhea as an issue. We have been giving Sophia digestive enzymes and probiotics for a long time now and has seemed to make a difference. She has tiny amounts of blood in her stool now and then. And I pointed out Sophia's very red anus to her vet and she felt it was most likely related to Cushings. Nothing more said. I would not be suprised if Sophia has colitis or IBS on top of everything else she has because she has so much anxiety/nervous behaviour, which me mostly control with Bach flowers (makes a visible difference in her). As I mentioned yesterday, she is scheduled to begin the Vetroyl on Monday. I will insist on a conversation about the diarrhea before we start the Vetroyl. thanks again, karen

[frijole]

I would not think of giving the vetoryl until the diarrhea is gone. First off if you read the manufacturer's pamphlet it states never to give it to a sick dog. Secondly one of the signs that cortisol has gone to low is diarrhea (as well as vomiting) so if your dog has the runs you won't know if it is from something else or the vetoryl. Please insist that you wait. Kim