Working towards a diagnosis for Grace (13 y/o miniature schnauzer)

[K8M]

My 13 year old miniature schnauzer, Grace, is being assessed for possible Cushing’s. She had begun drinking excessive water and wetting herself at night. We took her to the vet and discovered that she had lost 2 pounds. That’s quite a lot when she only weighed 15 to begin with. Her urine was free from glucose and protein and her specific gravity was 1.010. Blood glucose was normal. Her alk phos was above normal at 289. We started cooking chicken, rice and vegetable for her to get her eating again and now she is eating everything as well as begging in the kitchen when we cook. Sometimes will eat so fast she throws it up. The vet is going to do a consult with an endocrinologist and come up with a plan of action for figuring this out. She has never had a Cushing’s dog without the belly but she knows schnauzers can be different.

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. I just wanted to say this is one of the better vets we have heard of lately. One that is willing to consult an endocrinologist and come up with a plan. I think you will do well with this vet. The testing for Cushings is LDDS, ACTH, Urine, Urine, blood panel, and Ultra Sound. Once you have the testing complete we would want you to post any abnormal numbers for us. That way we can guide you better. Also if your dog does have Cushings and you treat with Vetoryl you can have your vet call the manufacturer at 866-933-2472 to establish a file on your dog. She will be able to discuss your dogs case with the vets on staff there. They are a big help so take advantage of that. If you need funds to continue on with treatment apply for Care Credit now. It is accepted by many vets and will allow you to pay over a long period of time. Also start a doggie diary about what is going on with your dog each day, you will need it for a reference. If your dog is diagnosed with Cushings, Vetoryl is available online from trusted sources usually cheaper than at the vets office. You will need to get prednisone off of your vet in the event your dogs cortisol goes too low. With great monitoring and a vet that understands this disease your dog can live out it's natural life. God Bless
Patti

[K8M]

Thanks for the advice. I have been monitoring all her symptoms but will defintely start keeping a diary of them. My vet has been treating my dogs for a long time and we have a good relationship. My other schnauzer has had a whole host of health issues from bladder stones to pancraetitis to SARDS. Grace has always been the healthy pup.

[Trixie]

I hope you get some answers soon for Grace. I have a 9yr old mini schnauzer. She was diagnosed with Cushing's last spring. She did not have a pot belly at all at the start...she had a huge appetite, drank tons of water and was panting when it wasn't hot...all tell tale signs, especially combined with rising liver numbers.
My childhood dog, also a schnauzer had bladder stones ...they sure have their fair share of issues as so many breeds do.
Hope all works out well for Grace. My dogs is doing very well on Vetoryl (Trilostane), if you get a positive diagnosis and end up treating with this drug my advice is low and slow with the dosing.

Barbara

[frijole]

Hi! Schnauzer mom here. My Haley had cushings and my Annie was MISDIAGNOSED as having cushings. I share this because you said weight loss and no tummy. Well... that is Annie. I treated her for cushings and she didn't have it - she had 7 false positives (both the ldds and the acth tests) - spent a fortune and many sleepless nights until I finally drove 5 hours to the closest specialist - K State Univ's vet school.

She had a rare adrenal tumor "pheochromocytoma" . I share this as something to consider. Meanwhile if your vet isn't familiar with cushings I would go find one that understands these things. While the liver numbers are elevated they are just BARELY elevated. Cush dogs have alk phos up to 4 digits! Many illnesses can make a dogs alk phos elevated so don't go buying into cushings because someone who isn't familiar with cushings said it may be so.

My 2 cents. Kim

[K8M]

The endocrinologist recommended the LDDS. She had that yesterday so we should have the results in a day or two.
Kim, I will keep that in mind when I talk to the vet. She has consulted an endocrinologist on this since the symptoms are not all there.

[frijole]

This is good. The specialist should understand that to have a firm diagnosis you need to do more than the ldds test. Schnauzers can get cushings but they are not predisposed to it like some breeds. They are more likely to get hypothyroidism and diabetes which have similar symptoms to cushings. Hugs, Kim

[K8M]

How did they decide your dog had pheochromocytoma and not Cushing's?

[frijole]

I went thru 3 vets locally and tested for everything under the sun. I finally decided driving 5 hours each way to K State Univ Vet Hospital where they have specialists and equipment was my best option. They did a brain scan and ruled OUT cushings - they didn't think she looked like a cush dog either. They did an ultrasound on her adrenals and took tons of film and discovered an adrenal tumor (the pheo) that was missed by the previous ultrasound done locally.

I'm not suggesting you are dealing with this at all - I just shared so you can see that even someone who has dealt with cushings can be fooled and how important it is to get the diagnosis right prior to treatment.

Good luck! Kim

[K8M]

Well, Grace's test results came back right at the cut off at 8 hours-1.5. The 4 hours was .7. The opinion of the endcrinologist is to treat since she is eating and drinking excessivlely. I have only spoken with one of the other vets in the practice and not the regular one.

[Squirt's Mom]

There should be 3 numbers for the LDDS - a pre, a 4 hour and an 8 hour. Did they give the pre #?

[K8M]

Well, Grace has continued to lose weight despite the chicken and rice diet we have her on. Yesterday she was in obvious pain and I agree with the vet she most likely has a tumor. Pain meds helped but we know even her time is limited now.

[molly muffin]

Have they done an ultrasound to check the internal organs and see what might be going on?
Not sure if that is a financial possibility as it can be quite expensive but if it is, then it is something to mention to your vet and team.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

I reread your thread an we are missing alot of info that we need to help dear Grace. You gave us 2 out of the 3 numbers on the test that was used to diagnose. We need all 3.

Then you started treatment - what drug are you on, what dosage, how much does she weigh? How long have you been treating (number of days)?

She should not be losing weight so I'm concerned especially as your vet admitting to not knowing much about cushings. Is the specialist still involved? Have you done an acth test since starting treatment? Of course we'll want those results :) Thanks, Kim

[K8M]

Grace continues to be a trooper even though she continues to lose weight. The vets now feel this is a tumor rather than Cushings. We have opted not to do the songram or scans since she is 13 and basically nothing can be changed. So we are loving her and giving her lots of chicken and rice. She has had one day of pain and we were given meds that really helped relieve it adn enough to give as needed over the holidays.

[molly muffin]

Oh I am sorry that they think it is a tumor other than cushings related. Just love on her and take plenty of pictures and videos. I'm sure she is happiest when right by your sides.
You just do the best you can with the hand you've been dealt sometimes. You're doing good. Quality of life is pretty important, and I know that is where your focus is right now.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Thanks for coming back. What type of tumor (location) do they suspect? My schnauzer Annie had a rare adrenal tumor (not cushings) and she lost weight. She lived with the tumor for two years until she passed. Basically she lost her ability to walk due to muscle wasting. Feel free to click on my profile and you can see her photos and read her story if you feel like it. Kim

[K8M]

With Grace being 13 and there being basically no good treatment that won't make her feel sick we opted to not do the scans. She is still getting around fine with occasional boughts of pain that we have meds for. She is her happy loving self. She is getting lots of love, homecooked food. I have not had her in for a weight check but will do so Friday.
As for the numbers on the LDDS I recieved them form the other vet at the practice who is not aware of my laboratory background, they started her on 0.5mg of vetoryl and she had a vomitting and diarrhea.

[frijole]

Vomiting and diarrhea are signs that cortisol is too low. Are you still giving cushings meds? If so please help us by answering some of the questions we have asked. Hoping Grace is doing better. Kim

[Renee]

If you are home cooking and she is losing weight, you may be shorting her on much needed calories and nutrition.

And, at 13, I don't think she's too old for treatment. Many dogs can be successfully treated at any age. I would encourage you not to give up and reject treatment just because she's 13.

[K8M]

We stopped the meds immediately when she became sick so no, we are not doing that anymore. It was .05mg. I mistyped that before. I insisted on starting low after reading so many posts on this site. I am glad I did.

We are adding her regular kibble mixed in with the chicken rice and veggies to make sure she has the needed vitamins/minerals. She is eating 3 times a day which is way more than she ever ate. She was never a pup who scarfed her food down.