Scout has been on veteroyl for almost 2 years

[Debbietym]

I don't know what to do any more with my poor Scout he was diagnosed almost 2 years ago and everything has been trial and error these vets around here give you pills and act like cushings isn't a big deal. All I know about it is what I have researched myself online. He is 11.5 years old we have Lways had issues with allergies and urine crystals along with ear and bladder infections. He acts like a puppy still running around and chasing his tail. I'm sorry I am trying to keep this short so I don't bore you with his life story lets just say we've had a lot of Heath problems just add cushings to the list. The cushings was diagnosed because he had a bladder infection did a round of mess but he still had blood in his urine so an ultra sound was done and the vet saw something she didn't like so off to the u of s vet college (while they were diagnosing cushings they turned him on his back to take a urine culture and his back went out I never want to hear my baby cry like that ever again I still cry just thinking about it)they did a ct scan, blood work and fine needle aspirate which came back inconclusive . My other boy gunner ended up there at the same time with an eye problem so of coarse they told me both of them had cancer yet both samples for both boys were inconclusive . They wanted to use radiation to test scout's kidney function which meant he had to be quaritened for at least 48 hrs then they wanted to remove his kidney without knowing what was wrong for sure. I put the brakes on because him being locked in a cage alone for days would have killed him long before the surgery did. So I brought my boys home to die or so I was lead to believe. I live in Lloydminster AB and the u of s vet college is in Saskatoon sk which is 3 hrs from home it was a long trip home crying the whole way. I called Doc Broderick in NY and he told me no more dog food sweet potatoes and table scraps and cornucopia and he promised me they would be fine and he was right they are thank the lord. The vet who diagnosed cushings won't speak to me because I wouldn't let them experiment on my babies. Scout had had bladder and ear infections off and on and he passed blood clots in his urine once shortly after the u of s episode and then again a year later so the vet here finally convinced me to take him for an ultrasound of his kidney I was scared to death because if he had cancer like they said he did we still wouldn't let them remove his kidney they make it sound like they do it every day and it's no big deal well it is and he was all 9ish so it wasn't an option to torture him. Imagine my surprise when the ultrasound showed his kidney was fine no white spot nothing at all I was also there for the first one so I know that what was there previously was no longer. But my poor baby had a gallstone which was no big deal I was told. I have questioned his blood tests because they wanted to drop him from 30 mg a day to none when I questioned to make sure it turns out they did the test right after he had his pill so they redid it and the 30 mg was fine. I get his urine checked at the same time and they were concerned about protein in his urine and blood . After 3 tests the protein hasn't increased but there is still blood and some crystals. The last test at the end of August just showed a few crystals but no infection they assured me here we go again now take him to Edmonton to have they look at his kidney again cause now this vet wants to take it out. I took the urine results to another vet and was told he has red and white blood cells, crystals and infection he had it all so mess for 10 days did seem better then recheck still blood so we are waiting on the people that sell veteroyl here to come up with an answer because apparently one of the side effects is bleeding? He has been nauseated off and on for a while the vet here says nothing's wrong they also said he didn't have bladder infection he has a healthy appetite and stool is normal but his tummy hurts and he is gassy and miserable .i am taking him for blood work here tomorrow because I can't wait for the vet in Saskatoon and the veteroyl people to figure this out. He is shaking more at night I assume from pain so I have to do something is it pancreatitis or his gall bladder? And what is the blood about? Help please someone I don't know what to do anymore but he needs help he is a wonderful healthy happy boy but this stomach thing is starting to wear on him please help I'm out of ideas. :confused:

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Scout,

Gosh, you and your boys are having a tough time of it. We are here to help in any way we can, and in order to provide you with more meaningful feedback could you round up copies of all tests that were done on Scout and post the abnormal values for us? Also, if you could get copies of all tests that were done to diagnose and monitor the Cushing's that would be a great help to us.

Now, can you tell us more about your boy, such as his weight, and his symptoms? When the ultrasounds were done, were the adrenal glands visualized? Are the monitoring ACTH stimulation tests being done 4-6 hours after the dose of Vetoryl is given? Is the Vetoryl being administered with food?

Vetoryl is known to cause gastric upset, so many members give their furbabies Pepcid AC 20-30 minutes before the dose of Vetoryl, did your vet mention this?

Gall stones and pancreatitis, both can be very painful. A spec cPL test can diagnosis pancreatitis, so if pancreatitis is suspected this test should be done to rule it in or out.

Regarding the bladder infections, has an urine culture and sensitivity test been performed so the actual bacteria is known and the correct antibiotic can be prescribed?

So sorry for all these questions but the more we know about your sweet boy the better we can help you help him, ok?

Hugs, Lori

[Debbietym]

Hi Lori I can definitely round up his test results . I am just so frustrated with all this no one around here seems to know anything about this disease and when my boy isn't feeling well I don't need a test to tell me. I keep pushing because for the most part he is healthy and happy and acts like a puppy most days I will not give up on him. I have never heard about the pecid AC but it makes sense and yes i do give his pill with food. Tomorrow afternoon he goes for blood work so hopefully I have more answers. No they haven't done a culture since he was diagnosed with cushings. After I questioned the blood tests they now test at 1:00 pm because he gets his pill at 9:00 am . The one I questioned was done in the am after he had his pill. I am dealing with 2 vets right now the one here is more for emergencies but they are doing blood tomorrow because I can't wait until the 12 th to see the one in the city. The vet in the city know a little more about cushings then they do here and she has ultra sound etc. here we only have X-ray . I will post tomorrow's results as soon as I get them and I will round up the rest. The vet in Saskatoon has been waiting for over a week for the veteroyl people to look over his tests etc because she noticed that one of the side effects is blood in the urine. This waiting is killing me it was a week ago on Friday and he is just more miserable and I'm thinking it's the gallstone or pancreatitis but his stool is fine and not throwing up just gassy and nauseated and his tummy is tender. Appetite is normal and has bouts of playfulness he seems worse at night For some reason.

Thank you so much for responding to my post I need to talk to someone that has experience cause I am going crazy worrying about my boy! I am praying that I have a solution tomorrow for the tummy trouble and i will ask about the pepcid thanks again !

[Harley PoMMom]

My boy, Harley, was diagnosed with pancreatitis from his first ultrasound and it was confirmed with a spec cPL test. Harley showed no symptoms of having pancreatitis so I was blown away with his diagnosis of pancreatitis, so I do recommend having the spec cPL test done when a dog's tummy is tender along with nausea.

According to the Vetoryl product insert blood in the urine (Hematuria) is listed as one of the side effects of Vetoryl, although I don't recall any member mentioning this happening with their dog. Here's a link to the U.S. Vetoryl product insert: Dechra's U.S. Product Insert. (http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf)

Will be looking for those test results ;) and I hope Scout is feeling much better soon.

Hugs, Lori

[Debbietym]

Well scout's blood test came back with slightly elevated pancreas so they want me to give him meta cam for 5 days and just watch for vomitting and dark tarry stool. I have not given him anything because I have been told meta cam is a no no when you are on veteroyl? Any ideas? I just have the results for his latest test ACTH for the moment still rounding up the rest.
Aug 28,2013

Cortisol (0 hr) 116. 0-280 nmol/L
Cortisol (1hr ACTH) 144
Cortisol(2hr ACTH) 136

I hope I did that right just reading it off the paper I have no idea!

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to you and Scout. Drat, if I didn't hit the wrong button and lose my whole first post. It happens, so I'm retyping this all out.
First conversion from nmol to ug

Aug 28,2013

Cortisol (0 hr) 116. 0-280 nmol/L - 4.2ug
Cortisol (1hr ACTH) 144 - 5.2ug
Cortisol(2hr ACTH) 136 - 4.9ug

It is normal to have 2 draws rather than 1, here in Canada.

So, that actually looks fine as long as his cushing symtpoms are controlled.

More concerning is the pain, and sore tummy.
Lori is right, you want a sepc cPL to test for pancreatis. So, you should be doing small meals during the day of a very Bland chicken and rice, mush consistency.
For pain, rather than metacam I would maybe go with tramadol (safer for cush pups) Lori would know more about this, as she has been down this road.

I think it would be a good idea to have the urine culture and sensitivity and it might be that a longer dose of antibiotics will be needed. My molly gets crystals, and I have to have her on the Medical SO food, to get her to drink enough water to keep the ph correct and not have them development any further. I think Lori and Glynda have a better idea though for use with cooked food, which is potassium citrate. You can now purchase this via amazon.ca and I'm sure Lori or Glynda can give tell you how much to add to food based upon weight.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin