Mr. Pooh and his wart!

[jo1010]

Pooh is a 13 year old Yorkshire terrier diagnosed with adrenal cushings – after continuing therapy with trilostane his basic condition has improved, but is susceptible to changes in the fluctuating cortisol level – we have to keep changing the dosage of trilostane as his cortisol levels rise and fall (detected by regular periodic blood testing).
His main daily discomfort at the moment stems from a facial ‘wart’, see pic. The ‘wart’ is a cauliflower type growth, and has grown larger over time. It has a fleshy surface and is full of blood, which flows freely when the area is knocked or prodded.

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/empiricist1/Mr%20Pooh/010_zps77d7d9f2.jpg (http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/empiricist1/media/Mr%20Pooh/010_zps77d7d9f2.jpg.html)

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/empiricist1/Mr%20Pooh/004_zpsf4716439.jpg (http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/empiricist1/media/Mr%20Pooh/004_zpsf4716439.jpg.html)

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/empiricist1/Mr%20Pooh/006_zps67fc6f29.jpg (http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/empiricist1/media/Mr%20Pooh/006_zps67fc6f29.jpg.html)


Now it is around 1/4inch proud of his skin and around 3/8inch diameter. It seems to daily distress, particularly in the evening for some reason when he seems to have an urge to rub or scratch it – clearly it seems to have to ability to drive him berserk.

His hair also gets caught up in the dried blood on the wart, which if he were to rub/scratch at it, which cause it to bleed again, and then the blood would dry, and the cycle would begin again. Naturally we try to intervene before this point. The vet suggested daily salt baths of the area, but this seems to remove the dried blood, causes fresh blood to issue, which by the following day has dried, and the cycle then starts again. So this approach does not seem to bring benefits.

Otherwise we use a ‘buster’ (UK) head collar most nights to stop his rubbing of the area, but this obviously doesn’t really cure his need to rub, what must be a very irritating area. We have tried to keep the hair short around the wart as well, but this is also tricky, so close to his eye. At an earlier point the vet snipped the growth off, but it returned, and possibly became more vigorous.

We don’t really know what to do. Firstly, being unsure at the moment as to exactly what the growth is, a wart or a growth (he also has another growth near his tail, but this doesn’t seem to cause him any concern), and secondly following from that, the possible options that we might have – elsewhere reading about laser/freezing treatments, but are these really appropriate for this kind of growth? And all this has to balanced of course by the risks around a surgical procedure requiring general anaesthetic in an older cushings dog as well.

Any thoughts or similar experiences with these gowths will be most welcome – Mr Pooh says he would really like to be rid of his buster collar!

Thanks in advance,
Joe and Shirley

[doxiesrock912]

I would want to know exactly what this is. The fact that it opens and bleeds makes me worry about possible infection if this keeps happening.

What does the vet say?

[goldengirl88]

Joe and Shirley:
Welcome to the forum. I would want it sent to the lab to see what it is. When the vet snipped it off did he not send it to the lab?? I would have to question that call if he did not. I would be concerned that anything removed and growing back so quickly puts my alert on high. I would want the current growth removed and sent out to see what it is. It could be cancer and have an easy treatment at this stage, if left to continue maybe not so good. You must get a biopsy asap, I would not fool around with this. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

After viewing the pictures I am even more concerned. Please get a biopsy like yesterday. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Oh my that does look like it would be bothersome and I too worry about what it is and what is causing it. My molly has small white warts, that the vet said was common in some older dogs, and they too usually come back, but that one seems to be quite large and Molly's doesn't bleed, so that is worrisome. I'd get it biopsied and analysed to see what it actually is and if there is a possible treatment to get rid of it permanently.

Cushings dogs are susceptible to infections, so that is something to consider too.

Welcome to the forum by the way! :) Sorry I jumped right in and didn't even say hello. I have to tell you I was intrigued and amused when I saw the thread topic, Mr. Pooh and his wart.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

My Zoe had a cauliflower growth on her neck. It started out as a small bump but over the years it got bigger and uglier and looked like a cauliflower but it never bled or semed to bother her. Eventually it got really ugly and burst open, blood everywhere, scared me half to death. I forget the name of the growth, but it was benign. They told us that if we did not remove it it would just keep bleeding, so we had it removed. Thtas was in the summer of 2011, her cortisol was fairly controlled at the time. It was in a spot that meant she could not walk much as it caused breakthrough bleeding after surgery.

I wished I had had it removed when it was smaller in hindsight but the vets all told me they dont usualy remove them until they become a problem. :eek::eek:

You need to be concened how deep it is and they should be able to asperate . Sometimes, when they asperate growths, the results come back as inconclusive.

I'll look through my paper and see if I can find the name of the growth.

[Concernedmom]

I had a cavalier that had a cauliflower wart between his eyes but further up on his head and one on his lower lip. They both started small and when he had a dental I had the one on his head removed because it was noticeable. I asked the vet if the other one would grow. Nope. Wrong. The one on his lip continued to grow over the years and was probably the size of yours but still pink. It bothered him once it got larger but at that point he was older so I didn't want to put him under anesthesia. He lived with it. Licking it all the time. It almost looked like it would fall off. It did bleed sometimes. Very Annoying. I kicked myself for not removing it. But he didn't have cushings either.

[jo1010]

Thanks guys for all those really sound inputs. There was no previous attempt at diagnosis of the growth, the focus was all on getting the cushings symptoms to resolve. But I think we’re now concluding that the growth is probably not related to Cushings itself, as it’s unlike those growths that typically present (hard, calcified things), but having said that we’re left with a bunch of risks to consider.

Yes, we could do biopsy (vet won’t aspirate because the growth contains so much blood - and probably wouldn’t get much tissue to anlayse from such a process). Biopsy would involve complete removal and analysis of the growth, but requires general anaesthetic. His coughing has been worse recently, and we’re told that this is indicative of possible heart problems – the heart being a muscle shows some deterioration under cushing’s (but at the moment his heart still sounds to be ok).

But if there is some deterioration, then there are increased risks with any anaesthetic. So we need to consider those risks against the possible risks of the growth being malignant. And of course the daily irritation factor from the growth. Of course if he had to have an anaesthetic for something life threatening we’d remove the growth like a shot, but at the moment things just don’t seem clear cut. We’ll continue to ponder all this and will keep you posted.

Love from Shirley, Joe and Pooh (and not forgetting Shy Boy – the other terrier in the house, who also has his own struggle with chronic bronchitis...hey ho)

[goldengirl88]

Is it not possible for them to give him a local, and freeze it so it does not bleed, and get some of it? I feel so bad that you are in this predicament. You are right about the heart as a lot of people forget it is a muscle that is subject to Cushings. My Tipper recently started with a heart murmur, I was devastated to hear this and I know where it came from. Have you looked into giving your dog Hawthorne It ism wonderful for dogs with heart ailments and is the berries etc from a hawthorne tree. Tipper takes it faithfully every day and people have had good results from it. Hope all goes well, and that you are able to do something to help your baby. Blessings
Patti