My sweet Tootsi (13 y/o doxie)

[carolyn]

Hello new friends. I don't have much time to post now so I will return tomorrow eve. In a nutshell, my precious 13-year old doxie has been confirmed to have Cushings. I don't have all the numbers now, but she has had 3 ACHT test and 3 electrolyte test to date. She is on 10mg Vetoryl and not doing well. She has had back problems since age 5 and back surgery for ruptured disk at age 8. Now she is down due to back pain. I'm losing it and so worried!!!

Carolyn

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Tootsi! So glad you found us and we will help in any way we can.

Getting copies of all tests that were done and posting any abnormal results will be helpful to us, especially all test results for Cushing's. How much does she weigh? And, can you clarify to us regarding how she is not doing well? Is she vomiting, any diarrhea? What symptoms did she display that led you or your vet to test for Cushing's in the first place? And, how are her symptoms now? Has the vet rx'd any prednisone?

Looking forward to hearing more about Tootsi.

Hugs, Lori

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

I am sorry to hear Tootsi is not doing well. Is it because the lower cortisol is contributing to pain issues from her back problems or is she having side effects?

Breathe in and out slowly and come back to tell us exactly what is going on, ok? We all know that panicked, I cant cope feeling. We all pretty much arrived here feeling the same way.

But we need more info to help.

hugs

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Toots. :)
If you are indeed losing it and are worried you have come to the right place and will fit right in. I have lost it so many times that I often feel like I never had it in the first place. :rolleyes:A day does not go by when we do not worry about our Cush pups. I lost my own Buddy a few months ago and I worried about him every minute of every day. The losing it part gets much better once you've been with us for a while. The more you learn, the less scared you will become and the more empowered you will be. We are here to provide support and help put your mind at ease.

In order for us to help you, we need more information in the way of test results. Please post anything out of the normal range either high or low. We need to know what symptoms led to Toot's Cushings diagnosis. There will be many questions in order to get a complete picture.

In the meantime take a deep slow breath. Now take about 10 more of those and get back to us when you can.

[carolyn]

I will try to get test results/numbers in the next couple of days from Vet. I have three elderly dogs and I am in contact with her at least twice per week so I hope she doesn't get too weary of me. My oldest doxie, Weenie, is 16 years old and has TCC Bladder cancer. We are giving her at least another couple of months to live. Also have a precious, rescued tea-cup chilhuahua who has a crushed pelvis due to being kicked. So we have lots of issues here. I'll be posting when I get results.

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum, and God Bless you for helping these poor abused babies. I will wait until you get your results posted to comment on anything, but know this is the best place for help and support and that you can successfully treat your baby. God Bless all of you.
Patti

[carolyn]

Hello this is Tootsie's mom, Carolyn. I went to my vet's office to pick up copies of all of her tests. However the receptionist only gave me the last three ACTH results. Since we do not have a scanner, I will try to translate what I'm reading.

7/24/13 First ACTH test: Ref Range
Cortisol pre 3.3 in range 1.0-6.5
Cortisol post 38.2 out of range 6.5-18.0

9/27/13
Cortisol pre 2.6 in range
Cortisol post 2.7 out of range

10/24/13
Cortisol pre 5.9 in range
Cortisol post 15.0 in range

After the first test, Tootsie was on Ketoconazole (don't remember dosage) but had to stop taking it due to diarrhea.

She was then given Vetoryl 30 mg but her second test indicates that too much cortisol was being suppressed.

The dosage went down to 10 mg Vetoryl which she is taking currently and the last test confirms normal range.

A few weeks ago I noticed she began having back pain. I'm assuming this is due to the lack of cortisol being released. Her electrolytes were normal for the last test. She is whining and shaking and I've had her on crate rest for the past three days. She is also taking vetprofen and buprenorphine. She shaking has subsided but she whines excessively. She does not want to get out of bed in the mornings and does not have much of an appetite anymore. Six months ago she was the first one to the food bowl and stealing food from my other two dogs.

Her weight fluxuates between 15-17 pounds.

She's just not the same girl anymore. I don't want these meds to kill her but I do not want her in pain either. Just wish we could find a happy medium.


C

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Carolyn and a belated welcome from me too.


10/24/13
Cortisol pre 5.9 in range
Cortisol post 15.0 in range

Actually this is in range for a pup not on Vetoryl. The actual normal range for a cush pup on Vetoryl is 1.45 to 5.4

So Tootsi is a little on the high side.

Here is a link to Dechra, the manufacturers of Vetoryl:
http://www.dechrace.com/pdfs/vetoryl/vetoryl_detail_sheet.pdf

Look at page 2 Table 2



9/27/13
Cortisol pre 2.6 in range
Cortisol post 2.7 out of range

This ACTH is right in the middle of the desired range.

[goldengirl88]

Hi:
The first thing that made me sick was her weight in comparison to the dosage she had been started on . My Tipper is practically the same weight and I started her on 10mg. Tootsi should have never been started on 30mg as you are asking for trouble. The vet that you are going to must not understand the protocol with such a powerful drug to start a dog on of her weight at 30mg is almost twice the dose of 1mg per lb. What tests were performed on which electrolytes and what were the results. This is what I would do if I were you. I would call the vets office and ask for a complete copy of all testing. They are required to give it to you. I would then be looking at the very first tests done on your dog to confirm that she has Cushings. The first tests would be ACTH, LDDS, Urine,& blood panel. Lets see what the abnormal results are on the blood work if you could post them, then give us the first test numbers and the ones following. It can bring a lot of heartache if you have a vet that has very little or no experience with this disease and it's treatment. If that is the case you must educate yourself on here and by researching, to enable yourself to be your dogs best advocate. You are the only mouth piece for your dog. You must learn the proper treatment and management of this disease, when and how testing should be done etc. so you can monitor what you vet is doing if you continue with them. Were you ever given any prednisone and told what to watch out for if you dogs cortisol goes too low? You must have it always when treating a dog, it could be a life or death situation and you would need it. Sometimes a dogs cortisol drops too low. On the dose you dog was given I know that is a high possibility. If your dog is sick, do not give trilostane period. You need to watch out for lethargy, vomiting, diarrhea, not wanting to eat, cannot get up or stand. I think you need to be vigilant in watching you dog, and not medicate while your dog is showing these signs of shaking etc. Please get the copies of all the tests especially the electrolytes since your dog is not well. There is no hurry to treat, but never give a sick dog trilostane that is etched in stone here. Try not to worry as everyone on here will help you get your baby straightened out, but we want to know that your dog does have Cushings and with your vet sounding very inexperienced let the ones with experience on here guide you, they have more experience than most vets. Do you know if your vet gave your dog prednisone? I don't want to bambarde you but I do not want you dog to get worse either. Please come here with any questions, and for any help you need. I feel bad you dog got off to a bad start. Blessings
Patti

[Roxee's Dad]

I am a bit concerned about the diagnosis, please do tell us of the events that led to the testing for cushings. If Tootsie has back issues and is in pain, that could very well be the reason for the high cortisol.

Ravenous appetite?
Never ending thirst?
Peeing buckets?
Hair loss?

Was their any other test besides the ACTH test? Maybe an LDDS test, that would have been an 8 hour test procedure.

[carolyn]

Thank you. This disease is so confusing. Tootsie has had prednisone off and on throughout her lifetime due to her back problems. I'm calling the Vet tomorrow to discuss these issues.

[Roxee's Dad]

was she on pred during the ACTH testing? Or how long was she off the pred before the ACTH test.

[carolyn]

Yes ravenous appetite. Drinking tons of water. Peeing in the house which has never been a problem. Getting pot-bellied. When she was diagnosed she was showing no signs of back pain. I don't know if she's had LDDS test. I've gotta find out.

[carolyn]

was she on pred during the ACTH testing? Or how long was she off the pred before the ACTH test.

She was not on Pred during ACTH test.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome Carolyn and Tootsi

Well if she was on pred long term, then that can cause the same signs as cushings. Usually stopping the pred (which they have to be weaned from, can't cold turkey if they were on it daily or for a long time), will make those symptoms go away.

Back pain, problems, can cause the cortisol to be high also. All of these would cause the same symptoms as regular cushings.

I think that sometimes, what you have to think about most, is quality of life, with the back pain being what appears to be, very severe, the higher cortisol helps with that. The fact that she needed pred in addition to having high cortisol means that the pain is pretty bad for her.

At most you might want to try to get some of the symptoms under control and not chase the numbers in this instance. You're looking for a happy balance between pain control and high cortisol control.

That is my first thoughts just on reading your posts. Some of the others might have some other ideas.

Hang in there!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[carolyn]

She was not on Pred during ACTH test.

No she was not.

[carolyn]

Tootsie has been in back pain since last Wednesday. I noticed that she started having back pain about a week after she started vetoryl a couple of months ago. Her back pain got so bad that as of last Wednesday I have been keeping her crated. The vet said on Thursday to stop her vetoryl (10mg) and miraculously she is feeling much better. Still taking vetprofen but she is walking again with what appears to be minimal pain. I am only allowing her to walk while outside to potty. Unfortunately she seems to be increasing her water intake and is more hungry than usual so I'm thinking the cycle is starting to repeat itself. I will talk to her vet Monday morning about trying to find a balance. Never giving up!

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Carolyn,
The Vetoryl (Trilo) reduces the cortisol and her high cortisol could very well be what was helping alleviate her back pain. It's a very delicate balancing act to keep her cushings symptoms under control but at the same time keeping her pain reduced.

It is a discussion you should have with your vet or an IMS. Their may be some alternatives to pred that may help her back pain. Adequan may be an alternative.

Mod note: I took the liberty of merging your 2 threads together to keep all Tootsies information in one thread for ease of reference.

[molly muffin]

What about Tramadol for the pain instead of prednisone? Not a fab option, as they don't like the taste, but might work. It's worth trying.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Carolyn:
Have you thought of Adequan shots? My Tipper gets them and they worked very well for her, she has back, leg and trachea issues. Tipper also goes to cold laser therapy which can do wonders. Those are some options as I know my Tipper was hurting when her cortisol came down. The reason I know all this works is my girl is still able to do those high Jack Russell jumps although I try to discourage them. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Carolyn:
Just checking in to see how Tootsie did with her back this weekend?? Hope all is well. Blessings
Patti