10 y/o cushingoid dachshund, vetoryl?

[Eloftis]

My 10 year old dachshund, Munchie, has been struggling with this disease for almost a year now, but was only properly diagnosed today. It started with excessive hunger/weight gain... She put on almost 10 pounds in a month or so! So I took her to the vet who diagnosed her with hypothyroidism and she was put on thyro tabs. About a week into the medication the excessive thirst started... She was waking me up all night wanting water (drinking 10x more than a normal dog should) and started having accidents all over the house even though she was being let out every two hours.
About a month later I took her back to the vet and they ran every test imaginable including a Cushing's test-which came back negative.. So they gave me antibiotics and sent me home... Over the next year she got progressively worse. She kept putting on weight, had labored breathing, kept drinking mass quantities of water, became completely inactive, and kept catching viruses that would give her extreme diarrhea. I kept taking her back to the vet and the kept sending me away with more and more antibiotics.
Then one day she woke up and was running into everything and seemed completely disoriented. She had literally gone blind overnight! I was so angry that my vet whom I trusted ignored my pleas and let it go this far. That my baby was suffering so much. They wanted me to put her to sleep (they are more of a country vet that look at animals more as workers than companions), but I couldn't give up on her that easy. I forced them to do an abdominal ultrasound and redo the Cushing's test. The Cushing's test was positive, and the radiologist said it pointed toward pituitary based Cushing's.
Today I started her on vetoryl (trilostane) 10mg 2x daily. I don't know what to expect, because they didn't tell me anything- which brought me here. I'm reading all these stories about people's dogs dropping dead, and now I am terrified! They have her on lasix for fluid on the lungs, and enalapril for high blood pressure. I've heard that enalapril and vetoryl could be toxic?
. At this point I'm not sure if vetoryl is the right way to go or if I should choose another treatment option. I have spent over 5,000$ this year trying to help her, and money is no option. She' is my family. I still don't know how she went blind, or if anything can be done... I'm not sure what to do in general since I'm not getting much vet help :/ thank you so much for reading.. Any help is much appreciated!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Munchie!

I have manually approved your membership so there will be no need to respond to the email you have received from K9C.

I am so sorry for the reasons that brought you here but I am glad you found us.

If you could get copies of all tests that were done on Munchie and post any abnormal values that would be a great help to us. Also, we are especially interested in seeing the results from any tests for Cushing's. I see that an ultrasound was done, were the adrenal glands visualized and if so, what was written about them? Did the ultrasound find any abnormalities internally? Is Munchie taking other herbs/supplements/medications? How much does she weigh? I apologize for all these questions but the more we know about your girl the better our feedback can be, ok?

There is a condition known as sudden acquired retinal degeneration syndrome (SARDS), in which a dog suddenly becomes blind. I'm providing a link to our Resource Thread where information about SARDS can be found: Information About SARDS (Sudden Acquired Retinal Degeneration Syndrome) (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213)

Caution must be used when a dog is taking enalapril and Vetoryl because they both have the ability to lower aldosterone so electrolytes need to be checked regularly.

One thing I want you to know is that Cushing's is not a death sentence for a dog, it is a treatable disease and it progresses slowly. When you have a competent and skilled GP and/or specialist experienced in the diagnosis and management of Cushing’s along with close monitoring and owner observation most Cushingoid pets can live to their full life expectancy, with complete or partial resolution of clinical signs, and good quality of life!

Here's another link that has a wealth of info regarding Trilostane/Vetoryl: Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources. (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185) Feel free to print anything out. ;)

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want.

Hugs, Lori

[spdd]

Welcome to the forum. I can't be of any help to you, I'm not experienced enough, however there are experts here who will guide you through this process.

I understand the frustration also with vet help and have had to tell the vets I've visited how to actually even do the testing.

Try to relax, I know easier said then done - and when you post the test results, you'll be amazed at the feedback you get from those that are so experienced here.

Good luck with your sweet Munchie.

[rock2avenged]

hello

I am new to this forum too....I have a 12 year old Labrador called ebony. ebony suffers from cushings, hypothyroidism and diabetes. all three conditions happened all most all at the same time. has your dog been tested for diabetes? Diabetes caused my ebony to go blind like you say overnight! we have been managing all three conditions reasonably well for five years now.

sue and ebony xx

[Eloftis]

My 10 year old dachshund has been struggling with this disease for almost a year now, but was only properly diagnosed today. It started with excessive hunger/weight gain... She put on almost 10 pounds in a month or so! So I took her to the vet who diagnosed her with hypothyroidism and she was put on thyro tabs.
About a week into the medication the excessive thirst started... She was waking me up all night wanting water (drinking 10x more than a normal dog should) and started having accidents all over the house even though she was being let out every two hours.
About a month later I took her back to the vet and they ran every test imaginable including a Cushing's test-which came back negative.. So they gave me antibiotics and sent me home... Over the next year she got progressively worse. She kept putting on weight, had labored breathing, kept drinking mass quantities of water, became completely inactive, and kept catching viruses that would give her extreme bloody diarrhea.
I kept taking her back to the vet and the kept sending me away with more and more antibiotics. Then one day she woke up and was running into everything and seemed completely disoriented. --She had literally gone blind overnight! I was so angry that my vet whom I trusted ignored my pleas and let it go this far, possibly to the point of no return... That my baby was suffering so much. They wanted me to put her to sleep (he's a country vet and believes animals to be workers not companions), but I couldn't give up on her that easy.
I forced them to do an abdominal ultrasound and redo the Cushing's test. The ultrasound showed a slightly enlarged liver, and smaller than normal adrenal glands.. The Cushing test came back positive this time.
Today I started her on vetoryl (trilostane) 10mg 2x daily. I don't know what to expect, because they didn't tell me anything- which brought me here. I'm reading all these stories about people's dogs dropping dead, and now I am terrified!
At this point I'm not sure if vetoryl is the right way to go or if I should choose another treatment option. I have spent over 5,000$ this year trying to help her, and money is no option. She' is my family.

Before the vetoryl- they had her on enalipril 10 mg/day, lasix 50mg/day, soloxine .2mg/day, and rimadyl 30 mg/day. I've read online that you shouldn't mix enalipril or diuretics with vetoryl... If anyone knows, has any ideas, concerns, or thoughts... Please, please let me know. I'm at a loss:(

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post into Munchie’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[goldengirl88]

Welcome:
Would you be able to post the abnormal results from any testing you have had done? This will enable everyone to see what is going on with your baby. How much does your dog weigh? Have you been given prednisone? If not you need to get some asap. You need to watch for signs that your dog is having too low of a drop in Cortisol. That would be vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, cannot get up. You would then give the prednisone if this happens and go to the vet to have electrolytes etc. checked right away. If you are vigilant and watch your dog will do fine. There are some side effects to these drugs as you said. The key is starting on a low dose and working from there to minimize any adverse side effects. I know your are scare as we all are when we land here. Just know one thing, my dog would not be here today without this drug. The key is to monitor you dog always. When people do not listen and monitor that is when trouble happens. You will do fine with the help of this forum, they are wonderful. They are more educated on this disease than the vets are. Many vets know very little about it, and some never treated it. You must get educated on this disease, testing, dosing etc. so that you are a good advocate for your baby. We are all here for you so do not feel alone. Anything you need help with come on here and ask. That is what this forum is for to help people and their pets. It will be alright, so just know we are all here for you. Blessings
Patti

[Eloftis]

First of all, thank you so much for replying! I had no idea that I even had an original thread! I have been working this site through my phone (and this is my first forum experience so I'm a little illiterate in the ways),so I thought I wasn't working it right 😳 so I apologize if it's repetitive!

I hate to say Munchie is a miniature dachshund who weighs around 25 pounds! Over a year of trying special diets, diet food, prescription diets just never worked.. Especially when she got to the point where she couldn't finish walks and I was having to carry her back farther and farther each time out of fear she would collapse. I even tried a doggy fitness class and water therapy- all in vein.

I will get copies of all her test results to see if that will help, but there are just so many! I probably had her in the vet every couple weeks for a year running tests. I thought she had Cushing's from the beginning, but no one would listen to me. It's a relief to be around people who are knowledgable in the disease!

I do not have prednisone.. I will have to beg the vet for some just in case! Munchie has not had any more diarrhea or vomiting since starting the vetoryl... But it is also very hard to judge her activity levels because when the disease got progressively worse- she pretty much stopped all her usual activity. She still just lays around in the same spot all day, with me carrying her around since she isn't taking the sudden blindness well.

Sometimes her eyesight seems to come back, and she gets so happy she will perk back up and run around. I have been juggling so many medications, that it's hard to tell which one may be helping... The enopril for high blood pressure? Or the lasix for extra fluids? Or the veroryl? Munchie and I have the kind of relationship where we are very in tune with each other, and there are only a few hours out of the day we are not together. Thank you again for your response! And for bringing me to the realization I have other responses I didn't know existed!

[Eloftis]

hello

I am new to this forum too....I have a 12 year old Labrador called ebony. ebony suffers from cushings, hypothyroidism and diabetes. all three conditions happened all most all at the same time. has your dog been tested for diabetes? Diabetes caused my ebony to go blind like you say overnight! we have been managing all three conditions reasonably well for five years now.

sue and ebony xx

Hi Sue! I'm sorry about Ebony- I know what you're going through, and it's rough. I have had Munchie tested for diabetes probably 5 times throughout this year, and all have came back negative with everything in normal range. At first I hoped maybe it was diabetes, so I'd know the reason for the sudden blindness... But it wasn't :( she hasn't taken to blindness well, and will hardly move. When she does get brave enough, she just runs into things and is terrified! This whole thing started a little over a year ago, and just recently snowballed out of control. I just worry about all the medications they are having me give her. Enalipril, lasix, soloxine, rimadyl, metronidazole, and now the vetoryl! No wonder she feels so lowsy!

[Squirt's Mom]

YAY! You found it! And done good posting! Just click around on the site - if you don't have permission, it will let you know. Don't think you can cause any harm - if didn't well..... :p So explore a bit and get comfortable with how this forum works. I think you will find it easy to work in and come to enjoy it!

[Eloftis]

I'll try not to cause any trouble-Lol! At first it was telling me I didn't have permission, but since I was accepted I can finally snoop around :) I think my next hurdle will be actually getting test results on here!

[lulusmom]

Hi and belated welcome to you and Munchie.

I just read your posts and I have real concerns with your vet and have lots of questions for you. I've listed them below in numerical order. I'll also try to clarify the reasons for my questions.

1. Did your vet do a comprehensive thyroid panel on Munchie to confirm a diagnosis of hypothyroidism and can you get a copy of whatever test it was that he used and post the results here?

The reason I ask is because cushing's and other disorders can cause a transient decrease in the T-4 hormone. This is not primary hypothyroidism but something called Sick Euthyroid Syndrome. Once the underlying condition is addressed with effective treatment, T-4 usually normalizes. T-4 is the only thyroid hormone value that shows up on a normal blood chemistry and should not be the used for purposes of confirming a diagnosis. A full thyroid panel should be done.

2. Did your vet recheck thyroid levels after starting Munchie on Soloxine?

The fact that shortly after you started giving Munchie the Soloxine, she started peeing and drinking a lot makes me wonder if the dose of Soloxine was too high. If dose is too high, it makes a dog "hyper"thyroid and the hallmark symptom is polyuria (excessive peeing) and polydipsia (excessive drinking). You mentioned that after a month of this, your vet ran every test in the world. Before launching into every other test, he should have checked the thyroid levels first.

3. Did your vet mention that is extremely unusual to see abnormally small adrenal glands on ultrasound in a dog with cushing's? Did he see both adrenal glands well?

Dogs with pituitary dependent cushing's usually have normal sized or symetrically large adrenal glands and dogs with an adrenal tumor usually have one large adrenal gland and the other is smaller or even atrophied from lack of use. Unless the ultrasound is done on a high end machine and performed by a skilled radiologist, readings are not always accurate and both glands are not always visualized. At this point, and despite the fact that dachshunds are at the top of the list of breeds that seem to be predisposed to cushing's, I am beginning to doubt the diagnosis. It will be much better for us to try to figure this out once you have provided us with test results and answers to questions.

4. Did your vet explain why Munchie went blind or refer you to a veterinary opthamologist to determine the cause?

I believe Lori mentioned that a condition called SARDS can cause a dog to go blind overnight and an opthamologist can confirm if this is what Munchie has. Many dogs with SARDS will start to show symptoms of cushing's before or even after loss of sight. Most, if not all, have hyperadrenal activity involving the sex hormones which can cause the same symptoms as cortisol, which is the adrenal steroid associated with typical cushing's. SARDS sounded a lot more likely when I read that the first diagnostics for cushing's were negative. Vets familiar with cushing's and SARDS may not choose to treat this atypical cushing's, as quite often symptoms resolve without treatment in a matter of months.

I'm sure I'll have more questions but don't want to burden you all at once. Your responses will really help us sort through things with you, as well as provide you with appropriate feedback.

Glynda

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to you and Munchie. :) So glad you found us, whether it is cushings or isn't cushings, this is the place to be.

Interesting that you said sometimes it appears that the eyesight comes back and then Munchie is very happy and running around. How often does this occur?

Glynda has raised some very good questions that really need to be looked into before progressing onto the vetroyl. You don't want to give if if there is a chance that it isn't cushings and small adrenal glands are almost the opposite of what one sees with cushings. Glynda has already mentioned what is normally seen and why.

Again, welcome to the forum!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin
At what point exactly did the blindness show up and what medications was Munchie on at the time. If there is eyesight coming and going, it could be medication related, just have to figure it out and for that doggy eye doctor.

I think it would be worth it to see a doggy ophamologist and get those eyes checked out.