PDA

View Full Version : Cora - diagnosis pending



dmariehill
09-24-2013, 04:45 PM
Cora is a rescued 12 year old pug. We rescued her 2 1/2 years ago at age 9 when her previous owners wanted to put her to sleep because of her arthritis. She's a sweet, demanding, sometimes b*tchy, princess of a pug, exactly as she should be.

I only heard the word Cushing's for the first time on Friday. We're in the middle of the diagnostic testing right now, so we don't officially have a diagnosis and it's still possible that it could end up negative. I'm trying to make sure I have as much information as possible to have the right conversation with the vet if the diagnosis is Cushings.

Okay - so first off - the reason we're even looking at Cushings. She has somewhat elevated liver levels (which could have been caused by the Deramaxx she used to take for severe arthritis). In the last 6 months, we have been battling multiple recurrent infections - eyes, ears and UTI. She's drinking much more than before (she's emptying the water jug every two days instead of once a week or so). She's struggling with frequent urination (she even pees in her sleep and has been for more than 6 months). She is either antsy - pacing and panting around the living room, or she's passed out on her bed napping much more than usual. There's not much in between.

Additionally, her arthritis is being managed with Tramadol right now when I can get her to take it. Several years ago, tramadol was not enough. She still has some bad days with the arthritis: dragging her back legs and falling when she tries to get up. She really only uses one of the back legs for weight bearing and the other is just for balance and she rarely puts much weight on it. We can't put her back on Deramaxx as her liver level was already elevated enough to prohibit that drug.

So Friday, we were back in to the Vet with the eye and concerned about another UTI. Because these infections keep happening, and the elevated liver level, along with the symptoms above they mentioned the C word and started talking about testing. We did the urinalysis to confirm the UTI and started treating the eye infection and the UTI. And we did a Urine/Creatine ratio test. It came back suggestive of Cushings. The vet said they look for 34 or more and Cora was at 51. So on Monday, they did the LDDS test over 8 hours. We're still waiting for those results (they had to send them off).

My concern is that if this is Cushings, it's possible that the reason her arthritis is doing as well as it is now is because of the cortisol from Cushing’s. If she were 9 or 10 with no arthritis, I wouldn't hesitate to do treatment if we get the diagnosis. However, at 12, with severe arthritis (she was in an arthritis study at 8.5 to 9 and had it confirmed with xrays, it's really bad), I'm not sure if treatment is in her best interests especially if it increases the arthritis pain and further decreases her mobility.

What I've seen so far in my research is that treatment doesn't really extend life, it's intent is to improve quality of life (ie, a pugs expected life span is 12 to 14 years, at this point the disease doesn’t shorten or lengthen that). So with that in mind, has anyone on here chosen not to pursue treatment and just kept your baby as comfortable as possible? If so, why did you make that choice? Do you still think it was the right choice? If you have an older dog with other medical issues and chose treatment anyway, are you glad you did?

What questions do I need to be prepared to ask my vet as we discuss Cora in particular and what is going to make her the most comfortable in the time she is still here? And what other tests do we need to run?

I'm not as freaked out after reading on this site as I was before I got here. Now, I'm just trying to be proactive.

Roxee's Dad
09-24-2013, 05:30 PM
Hi and welcome to you and Cora,

I first wanted to extend our "Thank You" for rescuing a senior dog. It's a wonderful act of love.

Their will probably be many opinions on the subject of treating or not. As you mentioned, Cora is up there in age. Does Cora suffer from any of the typical symptoms? Ravenous appetite, excessive thirst, panting, loss of hair, muscle loss or atrophy, excessive urination?

If not, you may choose not to treat the cushings, because in most cases the treatment is used to treat these symptoms. If she doesn't have the typical symptoms and is a happy little girl, I would probably agree with your assessment to keep her as comfortable as possible.

If however she does have the typical symptoms, you and your vet may be able to find a happy middle ground keeping her on the higher side of cortisol but reducing the appetite, thirst and excessive urination.

Again, just my opinion.

Edited to add that left untreated cushings also suppresses the immune symptoms and thereby, many cush pups get UTI's, ear infections, etc...

dmariehill
09-24-2013, 05:36 PM
She has excessive thirst and panting. The muscle atrophy is harder to say because the arthritis is so bad, I'm not sure we can tell the difference in how she acts right - she hasn't used that one leg much for years, so I'm sure there is some muscle atrophy, but what is it's cause right?

The biggest concern right now I think is the frequent infections. In the last 2 months, we've had 2 eye infections and 2 UTIs. If you add a few more months back, you add in ear infections too and I lose count of how many infections we've had.

That's the hard point I think - how do we balance between cutting down the recurring infections and still not make her in extreme pain from the arthritis.

My little girl - she's 1 now loves Cora and sharing her food with her. So it's hard for me to tell sometimes how much she is actually eating. .. . .as SOMEONE thinks it fun to give the pug baby food. . . :-)

Roxee's Dad
09-24-2013, 05:49 PM
My little girl - she's 1 now loves Cora and sharing her food with her. So it's hard for me to tell sometimes how much she is actually eating. .. . .as SOMEONE thinks it fun to give the pug baby food.

LOL.. I know the feeling. Well is Cora stealing food, dumping the garbage can and in constant search of food? When a Cush dog has a ravenous appetite, there is no stopping them from ripping anything apart to get to food. One time my Roxee got a hold of a box of biscuits that was wrapped and left under the Christmas tree. It was a 1 pound box and she was about 12 pounds. By the time we got hme, over 1/2 the box was gone and she was still chowing down... her belly felt like a rock and she pooped creme colored biscuits for days :o

Please do post the results of the cushings test along with the normal ranges when you receive them. Has Cora been tested for diabetes and thyroid issues?

I am sure many more will stop by to welcome you and Cora and say Hi :) and I am sure they will share their experiences and knowledge... and we do have a few that have gone the holistic approach.

One other thought on the arthritis, have you discussed adequan shots with your vet? They really worked wonders on our Mickee in his senior years.

frijole
09-24-2013, 05:53 PM
You bring up excellent points because without a doubt reducing the cortisol would increase the arthritis pain. What you might have to do is treat at a lowered dosage (assuming it is cushings) - either that or increase the tramadol. Kim

molly muffin
09-24-2013, 08:02 PM
Hi and welcome.

I agree with everything John and Kim said. It is a fine balance when you have a senior dog with arthritis.
Have you tried the Adequan shots for arthritis? I'm thinking you might have already tried them but if not, then maybe worth it to look into.

If you do opt for treatment, then I think you'll be looking at a fine balancing act, of trying to lower enough to control some symptoms or get them a bit better and not aggravate the arthritis too much.

Congratulations on adopting a senior girl. :) I'm sure that we'll get this figured out. She sure does sound like she has figured out how to manage mobility with the arthritis, good for her!!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

dmariehill
09-25-2013, 05:37 AM
Thanks everyone for the input. I definitely feel prepared now for whatever conversation I need to have with the vet when the results come in.

We haven't tried the Adequan shots at this point or the other new laser treatments. I know the laser treatments were really helpful for a friends dog and my vet and I have discussed these, but the cost getting started is really high. So since the tramadol is currently keeping her mobile and acting normal, we've stuck with that.

I'll post once we get the results back.

ETA: John - I don't think Cora is ravenous. She's eating more than normal, but she isn't behaving much differently than a normal food motivated pug and she isn't being as vocal as when we put her on a diet. RE diabetes and thyroid - we haven't tested for those but the vet said the blood work in August was normal for everything except the liver. I'll get a copy of those results as well once the LDDS is in. I'm really hoping that this is just a stubbon UTI combined with age but I guess we'll see as we get results back. And, I think we're headed back to the vet today even if results aren't in. I'm not happy with the progress on her eye this time (it got better faster last time with a different med) and she drank more than half of the water jug after 6:30 last night, and is still having so many accidents, I'm just not sure we're making progress with the UTI.

spdd
09-25-2013, 08:32 AM
Hi... welcome to the forum. I saw your post on my thread and I'm glad I can be helpful to somebody. I don't have any answers for my pup, it's frustrating and expensive but both "mah boy" and I plug on.

I didn't do the Adequan shots, I did Cartrophen... it was a series, but I found them useless in my case. I then proceeded to a series of laser treatments. I heard all kinds of good things about that, and I really in all honesty don't know if it worked for Keesh. They were $50.00 for a 6 minute round of laser and if I paid up front they threw in the 6th one for free. He does really well on Metacam, but considering he at the time was on Vetoryl... I took him off it and he only gets Tramadol now. I can't even tell if he's in pain, he's just slow to get down, but rises faster... go figure !! He has elevated liver too, but I'm blaming that on the metacam.
I think the hydro therapy is working and I'm sticking to that for now, no Cushings meds ( cause they can't figure out if he is Cushings or not) - he's a mystery to everybody.

Hope those test results for you come back with definitive answers - we all need to know what to do with our furbabies.

goldengirl88
09-25-2013, 09:30 AM
Just wanted to say welcome. The Adequan shots have done wonders for my Tipper. She also gets the laser treatments. I hope you get everything figured out, and that you baby does well. Blessings
Patti

FemaleK9
09-25-2013, 09:01 PM
Welcome! It sounds to me like you're on the right track and asking the right questions. The more information you can post, the more help the folks here can give you.

As to the recurrent UTIs, my Rosie had a UTI when in the process of diagnosis, although it had to be cultured to show up. I think it is a common issue with Cushing's dogs. I now give Rosie a cranberry supplement for dogs in a chewable tablet form (this one (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031TU3WC/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), but there are others). I just drop one in her middle meal (the other meals have chewable Cushing's meds, Trilostane, in them) and there have been no further problems. I would hold off until the current UTI has been dealt with, and check with the vet first before starting any supplements, though.

dmariehill
09-26-2013, 09:54 AM
Good news!

So the LDDS is negative for Cushings. I didn't get the actual numbers as we'll be back there this afternoon to have her eye reevaluated since it doesn't seem to be improving like I'd like.

His first thought is that we're either dealing with resistent bacteria, age, or bladder stones. We're going to schedule the xray to see if there are any stones that are contributing to the infections. And if this one doesn't go away when the antibiotics are done, they'll send it for a culture.

Basically, we're thinking the peeing and pooping in her sleep in contributing to the problem. She ends up laying in it during the night which causes more infections. So a vicious cycle. We're also going to talk some more about other arthritis treatements to see if we can get some additional relief as I think her half squat indicates she's still hurting.

Thank you all so much for holding my hand while I waited for results!

Boriss McCall
09-26-2013, 05:46 PM
yay!!! so happy for you. No cushings is always a good thing. :D

Roxee's Dad
09-26-2013, 05:50 PM
Yay !!!!! but that doesn't mean you can leave us !!! Please keep us posted on Cora and how she is doing.

molly muffin
09-26-2013, 06:08 PM
Yay that is good news indeed. Hmm, you're right, thinking bladder stones, could be a culprit here, which would cause recurring infections.

Definitely don't leave. :) We call it family once you walk in our door and we are there no matter what comes up or what the final diagnose is.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Trixie
09-26-2013, 06:17 PM
I know you would probably like to find out some answers to Cora's symptoms but I'm so happy for you that it isn't Cushings! Hopefully there will be some solutions to help Cora.
Don't leave, we will all want to know how she's doing. :)

Barbara

LtlBtyRam
09-27-2013, 06:04 AM
Welcome to the forums. I'm glad you didn't get a cush diagnosis :D as you have already found out the folks around here are PAWSOME! I do hope you find the cause of Cora's problems.
Angela