8 y/o Shepherd - Food/Treatment?

[Belliewood]

My dog was recently diagnosed with Cushings about 5 months ago. She is an 8 year old Shepherd that I rescued from the pound and is the love of my life. I shaved her 2 summers back because she kept panting and I thought it was due to the heat, even thou she was an inside dog, and her fur just never grew back. I assumed it was because she was an older dog and didn't think much of it. She also started peeing in the house a few times a day, something she had never done even on accident before 2 summers ago. The vet said he thought it was a bladder infection even thou she never tested positive for one even after several trips to the vet. Well, a few months ago she woke me up because she was throwing up 3 handfuls of large rocks and blood. I immediately took her to the vet where they ran $500 worth of tests and x-rays and told me she had an enlarged liver and a tumor on her pituitary gland and every sign and symptom of Cushings. My vet kind of brushed it off like it was no big deal and that I shouldn't be concerned. Since then she has been peeing in the house way more frequently and just doesn't seem happy like she used to and grunts a lot like something is just wrong. I met a very wonderful woman online who pretty much went thru what I am going thru and recommended Cushex and Flint River Ranch food Trout and Potato Canine Formula. I didn't know if anyone else had any words of wisdom or advice on what else I can do or feed Ellie. I REFUSE to put her on the pills the vet told me about because he even told me to stay away because of the side effects, so I am trying to go with the holistic route. ANy help would be very very very much appreciated!

[labblab]

Welcome!

I noticed you had posted this reply on the thread of a member who has not been here for quite some time. So I have taken the liberty of moving your reply in order to create a thread that is your very own. I'm very glad you've found us, and I know you will soon be receiving helpful feedback from our other members.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. I just wanted to tell you that if holistic ways worked, we would all be using them and there would be no need for this forum. First of all what testing did your vet do on your dog to confirm Cushings? Please post the abnormals on the results on here so we can help you. Secondly how much does your dog weigh, and does it have any other medical conditions or take other drugs. I am not in agreement with your vet on the staying away from the drugs that treat this disease. This is a hard disease to diagnose. There are many other diseases that have similar symptoms. Some of the symptoms you noted are symptoms of Cushings and other things also. My dog would not be here if it were not for the Vetoryl used to manage this disease. Her symptoms were severe. The people on here have more experience with this disease than most vets do. You can trust them and they will help and support you. Please get us all the info on your baby so we can all help. Blessings
Patti

[Belliewood]

Hey Patti! The first vet I took her to ran so many tests that I don't know exactly what all they did (I am taking her to a new Vet Friday who has a lot of Cushing's patients for a second opinion), but I am going to pick up her records tomorrow and will hopefull have all the lab info on it. Ellie weighs around 65 lbs. She has no prior medical condtions or allergies. I got her from the pound when she was about 6 months old and is 8 now. Her only issues is she is just a nervous dog and sometimes has tummy issues if new people come around (the pound said they found her badly beaten and tied to a tree about a month before I adopted her). I recently switched her to Flint River Ranch food because from Diamond brand because I have heard some people talk very highly of it for dogs with symptoms like what she has. Any advice on a good brand of treat to feed her would help because she acts like she is hungry 24/7. I also give her (about once a month) a kong with yogurt that I freeze in it. Thanks for any advice!!

[frijole]

Welcome aboard. We need to get you up to speed on what cushings is and how it works. Sorry but there is no diet for cushings other than dogs with cushings can't tolerate alot of fat. You can't treat it with food.

The reason why your dog is acting starved is due to that little pituitary tumor near the brain that is sending false messages to your dog telling it is starved.

The only proven means of treating the disease is using the 'dreaded meds' your so called vet mentioned. I am sorry but any vet that talks like that is afraid of the disease and I would run like heck to a next vet which thankfully you are doing.

I'm linking you to some reading material. I highly suggest you read thru it so you better understand what the disease is before you make decisions as to whether to treat. Your dog is young and can live a very normal life with treatment. Kim
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

[Belliewood]

Thank you Kim! After checking out this site for a few days and seeing everyones comments on the pills I am not as scared to try it. Im willing to try almost anything at this point because Ellie is everything to me. I will keep everyone posted as to how the visit with the new vet goes Friday!
Becky

[frijole]

No problem. That's how I ended up on this site 8+ yrs ago... had a clueless vet and thank God I checked google. My girl was treated for 4 1/2 yrs. She passed at 16 1/2 yrs of old age not of cushings. So don't worry - knowledge is power so understanding the disease and not blindly trusting what a vet says is the best thing you can do. It used to be that most vets failed to diagnose this disease - now we see alot of cases where they are pushing to treat when in fact a dog does not have the disease.. crazy stuff... but hopefully your appt goes great and this vet has experience. That is what you need most. Kim

[molly muffin]

I agree completely with Kim.
I am a bit suspicious of the throwing up rocks and blood and still acting like she is in pain. While the peeing is symptom of cushings being in pain is not.
An xray cannot determine a pituitary tumor or size, only an MRI could do that or I think a CT scan. Although this is a good "guess" you really need an ultrasound to show if you have enlarged liver, enlarged adrenal glands, etc. yes that is an expensive option and if you were sure that this was a cushing diagnose, then I wouldn't be as concerned about it.
I would go into the vet Friday, with an open mind of what Could be wrong and let them do the diagnosis and see what they think. Tell them about the peeing, tell them about throwing up rocks and blood and acting like she is having pain.
We need to get a good diagnosis and cushings is one of the hardest to get that for, so you want an experienced vet and one who isn't scared of the disease, but does follow all protocols for treatment.
Key to a good experience with any of the drugs is a vet that know what they are doing and with vetroyl, starts conservatively. (it's just better all the way around).
Hang in there, you are on the path of discovery now and we'll be right here with you all the way.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[LtlBtyRam]

Any advice on a good brand of treat to feed her would help because she acts like she is hungry 24/7.for any advice!!
Welcome to the boards. The folks around here are PAWSOME! We have 2 vets. A traditional one and a holistic Chinese Medical Vet. I agree with everyone about the natural holistic stuff and yes I see a vet who specializes in it. Not so much as to treat the Cushing's (my cush pup Shasta is on Trilostane too) as to support the rest of her systems.

The support from the holistic Chinese vet has proved helpful. We just had an appointment with her yesterday and brought up how bad we feel about not giving her food when she seems so hungry all the time. We were advised (I have also seen this here) to supplement her treats and or meals with green beans and carrots. We don't have anything to say as to whether it helps or not since we have only been at it less than 24 hrs, but I will keep you posted if you like.
Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Becky, welcome to you and Ellie! :)

Throwing up rocks, hummmmm....reminds me of someone I love; a Pit mix named Crystal who had a condition called Pica. Pica drives dogs, and humans, to eat non-food items, sometimes in preference to actual food, as was the case with my Crys. She would walk away from a bowl of food to eat an Azalea bush or the couch or a video game, etc. Dogs with Pica sometimes have preferences for certain things. One pup I read about when Crys was diagnosed would eat only metal items, another only glass items, another only dirt and rocks...then there are those like Crys who just ain't picky. ;)

Unless things have changed in the last 3 years, there is no test for Pica; it is diagnosed based on behaviors and often on surgeries to remove foreign objects from the digestive system. In addition, there is no treatment for Pica other than intense observation and protecting them from themselves. Crys ate something like 5 different muzzles off her own head before I finally had one made of metal and leather that she couldn't get her teeth into and eat. She looked like Hannibal Lector! :eek::D

I am NOT saying Ellie has Pica but that is something you see with this condition - vomiting up non-food items. Since she seems to be in pain, I would want to make sure there is nothing lodged anywhere in her stomach or intestines. Pain is not a sign in Cushing's.

I am also in strong agreement with Kim - RUN to another vet asap. When a vet is saying things like this one told you, which is wrong on so many levels, that is a huge red flag that the vet does not understand the disease nor the treatments for it....and as a result has more than likely does not have a good success rate treating it. ;)

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Belliewood]

Well, the visit didn't go as good as I planned. My new vet was reading over the notes that the old vet made on Ellie and he said he "assumed" she had Cushings and the tumor. I was mad but happy at the same time because the new vet said she thought Ellie may be a diabetic. Well, the lab results came back today and she had a lot of protein in her urine and her liver enzymes and thyroid levels were off the charts. So just when I started to see some hope it got shot down. They said they are about 98% positive she has the Cushings and now I have to go have an all day test run on her sometime next week. Words leave me with how upset I am over it all. Yesterday they had to get a urine sample and had to stick a needle in her belly to get it and I lost it. I felt like the worst momma to ever walk to earth when i had to hold her still while they did it. AWFUL. I will never ever ever let them do that to her again. Monday the vet is going to call me and go into more detail with what all the labs said because her vet tech called me this morning and confused me more then anything. They also put her on an estrogen pill to hopefully help with the incontinence. Still trying to wrap my brain around everything because it was just a lot to take in in one day. I got home and just sat in the kitchen floor and cried for about 30 mins while Ellie sat with her head in my lap looking at me like im crazy. I have a copy of the lab results but have no clue how to read them? If anyone wants to see them just send me your email and ill forward it to you.
-Becky

[LtlBtyRam]

I have seen the folks say you can email your test results to k9cushings@gmail.com and then they can post what results are most pertinent to your thread. I'm so sorry you are even more confused now. Just know there are a lot of people here to help support you. If there is anything I can do please message me.
Angela

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Becky,

I am sorry you are feeling more confused so we will try to help and hopefully make things clearer, we completely understand how confusing this can be.

From Ellie's chemistry/CBC blood panel what we want to see are the values that are marked abnormal, usually they have a (H) or (L) beside them, we also need the reference ranges and the units of measurement, as an example...ALT 150 U/L (5-50)....Thanks!

As for the protein in the urine I would not get so worried about this just yet, many, many things can cause protein to spill over into the urine.

Sending huge, loving, and comforting hugs, Lori

[Belliewood]

Thank you both so much! I just sent the email to that link you left. I will try to get them to email me the labs that my other vet ran too if they can so that y'all can compare them. Thank you all so much for all the love and support! Its people like you that are helping me hold what little bit of sanity I have left together. ;)

[frijole]

Actually it is more helpful and easier for all if you simply take the report/blood test and type in the results that are high or low. Also give us the ranges for normal.

I am totally confused how a vet can think diabetes and then shift like this. Seeing the test results will help. Was the glucose reading within normal range?

Also if it is cushings you treat with cush drugs not estrogen. What form of estrogen did your vet give you for the incontinence? From what you have typed I have serious reservations regarding your vet's experience with treating cushings.

The all day test is the LDDS test. Is the vet going to test the thyroid as well? hypothyroidism has the same symptoms as cushings and it is a whole lot easier and cheaper to treat. To be honest I'd try that test first just to rule it in or out.

Kim

[frijole]

I've included a couple of links to help get you up to speed regarding what this disease is and how to treat it. If in fact your vet is inexperienced you need to be able to know what questions to ask. It happens all the time so don't feel bad.

Again, please provide all test results in this thread vs via email. Trust me - one day you are going to need to remember what day certain tests were done and what the results were and putting everything on your thread is a great way to document it all. :D Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5427

[Belliewood]

TEST ADULT REFERENCE RANGE

*Alk Phosphatase 542 5-131 U/L HIGH

[Belliewood]

This is the easiest way I could think to do this, I hope it makes sense... (and theses were the high ones)

*TEST* *RESULTS* *ADULT REFERENCE RANGE*

*Alk Phosphatase *542 *5-131 U/L HIGH
*Cholesterol *467 *92-324 mg/dL HIGH
*Hemoglobin *21.2 *12.1-20.3 g/dL HIGH
*Hematocrit *63 *36-60 % HIGH

(with the urinalysis)
*pH *7.5 *5.5-7.0 HIGH
*Protein *3+ *Neg HIGH
*Blood *3+ *Neg HIGH
*RBC *4-10 *0-3 HPF HIGH


I cannot remember the name of the estrogen she gave Ellie but I will check it when I get home. I hope this helps!

[Squirt's Mom]

Does it show a value for T4?

[Belliewood]

*T4 *0.8 *0.8-3.5 ug/dL

Its showing right on the line for normal to low

[Harley PoMMom]

This is the easiest way I could think to do this, I hope it makes sense... (and theses were the high ones)

*TEST* *RESULTS* *ADULT REFERENCE RANGE*

*Alk Phosphatase *542 *5-131 U/L HIGH
*Cholesterol *467 *92-324 mg/dL HIGH
*Hemoglobin *21.2 *12.1-20.3 g/dL HIGH
*Hematocrit *63 *36-60 % HIGH


These elevations could be attributed to Cushing's and other non-adrenal illnesses.



(with the urinalysis)
*pH *7.5 *5.5-7.0 HIGH
*Protein *3+ *Neg HIGH
*Blood *3+ *Neg HIGH
*RBC *4-10 *0-3 HPF HIGH



With the blood in her urine this is indicative to an UTI. Was a urine culture and sensitivity test done? Since an UTI is present this is probably the culprit for the protein being found in the urine.

Hugs, Lori

[Belliewood]

Im honestly not sure? I will ask when I call monday thou.

[Harley PoMMom]

I am sure Ellie has an UTI which would make her drink and urinate much more, they also can be painful so that might be why she is grunting. If I were you, I would ask the vet about this and hopefully an antibiotic will be rx'd although an urine culture and sensitivity test is usually the best choice to have done because it can tell exactly what bacteria is growing in Ellie's urine and the correct antibiotic that needs to be used.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

I second the thought of this being a UTI. All the signs are there in the urinalysis of one and she needs an antibiotic. Until that is cleared up you can't really tell anything else, including the raised protein levels as that could be the result of the UTI.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin