14 y/o Beagle (Annie) possible Cushing's

[dwetherell]

Well......my Beagle has been diagnosed with possible Cushings. I have the test scheduled, .....What are the pros and cons of Trilostane?
Annie is 14. What is the life expectancy of a critter on these meds?
Her blood work and belly are the most obvious symptom,s.
Will the meds keep her
around longer than she would normally live? I have a mess of questions but am still getting over the news of an hour ago...so bear with me as I will ask more when my head clears. All help would be appreciated. Thank you for any information you can pass along

[mytil]

Hi and welcome to our site.

Firstly, overall life expectancy is very much determined by the breed, any other health issues your Annie may have. We have many here who have treated senior dogs for several years.

Just as important is quality of life. The meds will improve her quality of life if she does have Cushing's and will stop the damage produced by the excess cortisol.

Here is a link to information about Trilo - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185. It is always good to read up on these meds.

Let us know about any other symptoms your girl has - ravenous appetite, increased thirst and urination for example. Cushing's has symptoms that are the same as other conditions so make sure these have been ruled out - diabetes, liver problems, thyroid issues.

Make sure you post any test results here as well and list out any values that are elevated in any blood panel you had done too.

Keep us posted
Terry

PS - here is another link that provides some great reading on Cushing's, the diagnostics and treatments - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

[goldengirl88]

Hi and welcome to the group. I know you said your dog was diagnosed with Cushings, but you have to have the testing done to confirm that. There are many other diseases that have similar symptoms. After you get you testing done please keep a copy of any tests done and post the results on here so the members can guide you on what to do and look out for. As far as how long the dogs live on treatment, all I can tell you is my Tipper will be 12 she has been on Vetoryl for a year now. God willing she will keep going as I cannot stand the thought of losing her. If your dog is confirmed to have Cushings the best advise I can give you is if you use Trilostane/Vetoryl start on a low dose no matter what!!! You dog will have a better chance to adjust to the drug. You can always increase it in increments. I hope all goes well for you and your baby. Blessings
Patti

[dwetherell]

I am not sure quite how to proceed here, but here goes. Annie the "the Evil Beagle" will be going in for the test for Cushings soon due to a diagnosiss based on blood test results, a pot belly, and weakness in the hips. The hip thing comes and goes but never full time. She is 14 and we spent 9 months alone in the Arctic last winter and were due to head north again but looks like that may have to be canceled.
What am I dealing with? She is not showing discomfort....yet. Does the medication Trilostane cause healing issues?(Doc said surgery may be needed if she has bladder stones) She is at that age that I wonder just how bebeficial treatment will be as it relates to longevity. Also finances are a problem. She has had weakness off and on in her hind quarters and the belly for three years now......my normal vet must have got her degree in a Cracker Jack box, and but for a hemotoma in her ear and a trip to a vet 250 miles from home it never would have been addressed.
All help will be appreciated.

[dwetherell]

Thanks. The gal who saw Annie does want to test, and I concur. I will have it done in a couple weeks when I return from a scheduled trip back to the mountains. Money is a rather formidable hurdle which I will figure out how to navigate. Life does happen

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome from me too. :)
You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help, but be ready for lots of questions! So again, welcome to you and Annie:)

[dwetherell]

Thanks. Annie urinates a little more these days but last winter when the Blizzards blew through for 2 or 3 days she proved fully capable of holding things rather than deal with the extreme chill factors of 70 below zero. The test will determine things conclusively.....Hate to see the gal aging but she is still quite content and ready to go but after a four or five mile walk she is a little stove up for a day or two. But then so am I after a long day on snowshoes!

[mytil]

Hi again,

Here is a test that can be performed to RULE OUT Cushing's. It is non-invasive and not expensive by comparison.


Urine Cortisol/Creatinine Ratio Test: Considered a screening test, this cannot diagnose Cushing's, but it can rule it out. A urine sample is examined for the relative amounts of cortisol versus a normally excreted protein metabolite, creatinine (the latter is used to control for the degree of dilution of the urine). The greater the ratio, the higher the cortisol level. High cortisol in urine is suggestive of high cortisol in the bloodstream. Many conditions other than Cushing's disease can cause false positives, so this test is not considered diagnostic. Nonetheless, if the cortisol/creatinine ratio is okay, the dog is not likely to be Cushingoid, so this is a good screening test.

We all know for sure how expensive testing and the diagnostics can be. I don't think I had bought myself much of anything during that time for me. Here can be an other option in helping with vet bills - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212. Creditcare is used a lot and they have changed some rates and payoff times, but it could help.

Keep us posted
Terry

PS - after a 4-5 mile walk, much less snowshoes, I would be ready for bed for a day or two ;) She is doing good to be able to walk that far!

[dwetherell]

Ok. I have blood test results and urine test results anybody know what language it is in? Vet said she was worried about calcification(?) possible bladder stones. ALKP IS 1600. So what am I to post from both tests,the vet has a day off so she is unavailable.
Annie presents with a normal attiude, has energy, is very alert, and only occasionaly drinks a lot her appetite is normal, but she urinates a little more often and her hips-legs occasionly present as being weak. None of these are full time symptoms, but they do reoccur from time to time....so is the little pot bellied Beagle Pig just old or ?

[molly muffin]

Hi and welcome.

What you want to post is the test result (range) of normal High or Low
if something is within normal range then you don't need to type it out, just abnormal results.
Urine specific gravity if you have a urinalysi and any test that were done to diagnose cushings, like ACTH or LDDS. Full results for those.

Wow, 70 blow, I wouldn't be going out to pee much either. hahaha
Dare I ask where you are at that gets that cold? I know the Northern Territories here in Canada can get bitter cold and Alaska in the US sure can too.

Not really sure if you have full blown cushings if she can hold her pee and doesn't drink excessively. Cushings dogs normally drink a Ton of water and then pee a river, so to speak. They can't help it and food, they are more like shoveling it in than eating.
I know my dog doesn't have those specific symptoms either. Cushings can be tricky to diagnose.
We all came to be here, fearful and worried and upset at getting the cushings diagnosis or fearful that we would. Those fears tend to get better the more we learn though and has time passes you Will learn much about the disease.

Welcome to the forum
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Ok. I have blood test results and urine test results anybody know what language it is in? Vet said she was worried about calcification(?) possible bladder stones. ALKP IS 1600. So what am I to post from both tests,the vet has a day off so she is unavailable.


If you could post anything that is marked abnormal (either high or low), along with the reference ranges and units of measurement...e.g...ALT 150 U/L (5-50). Also, from the urinalysis could you post the USG (urine specific gravity), any sediment found, and the PH...Thanks!!

Love and hugs, Lori

[dwetherell]

Hemo:
Hct 56%, (36-60)
hgb 17.9 (12.1-20.3
mchc 32 (30-38)
wbc 9.7 10^3/ul (4.0-15.5)
rbc 7.6 10^6ul (4.8-9.3)
mcv 73 fl (58-79)
mch 23.5 pg (19-20)
plateletC 636 10^3 /uL H (170-400)
plateletE increased
Neutrophil 62% (60-77)
lymphcyte 28% (12-30)
monocytes 6% (3-10)
eosinophil3%(2-10)
basophils 1% (0-1)
AbsoluteN 6014(2060-10600)/ul
AbsoluteL 2716/ul (690-4500)
AbsoluteM 582/ul (0-840)
AbsoluteE 291/ul (0-1200)
AbsoluteB 97/ul (0-150)

Chemistry results:
alb 4.2g/dL (2.7-4.4)
alkp 1606IU/L H ((5-131)
alt 104IU/L(12-118)
amyl 458IU/L (290-1125)
ast 20
bun/urea1 5mg/dl (6-131)
ca 11.0 mg/dL (8.9-11.4)
chloride 113mEq/L (102-120)
chol 200mg/dL 92-324)
ck 73IU/L (59-895)
crea 0.8mg/dL (0.5-1.6)
ggt 6 iu/L (1-12)
glu 106mg/dL (70-138)
lipa 352IU/L (77-695)
mg 1.6mEq/L (1.5-2.5)
phos 3.8 mg/dL (2.5-6.0)
potassium 5.7mEq/L H (3.6-5.5)
sodium 150,mEq/L (139-154)
tbil 0.1mg/dL (0.1-0.3)
tp 6.9g/dL (5.0-7.4)
trig 159mg/dL (29-291)
glob 2.7g/dl (1.6-3.6)
a/g ratio 1.6 (0.8-2.0)
b/c ratio 19 (4-27)
na/k ratio 26L (27-38)
T4 1.5

[molly muffin]

Okay I'll put these into a bit easier to read format. Can you "edit" this post to add normal range, which should be next to each test result. We need to know what is abnormal High or Low

Hemo:
Hct 56%,
hgb 17.9
mchc 32
wbc 9.7
rbc 7.6
mcv 73
mch 23.5
plateletC 636
plateletE increased
Neutrophil 62%
lymphcyte 28%
monocytes 6%
eosinophi l3%
basophils 1%
AbsoluteN 6014
AbsoluteL 2716
AbsoluteM 582
AbsoluteE 291
AbsoluteB 97

Chemistry results:
alb 4.2
alkp 1606
alt 104
amyl 458
ast 20
bun/urea1 5mg
ca1 1.0
chloride 113
chol 200
ck 73
crea 0.8
ggt 6 iu
glu1 06
lipa 352
mg 1.6
phos 3.8
potassium 5.7
sodium 150
tbil 0.1
tp 6.9
trig 159
glob 2.7
a/g ratio 1.6
b/c ratio 19
na/k ratio 26L
T4 1.5

[dwetherell]

I will try this again,platlet E INCREASED,lymphocyte28% (12-30),ALKP1606(5-131)iu/l h,ALT104iu/l(12-118),Ca11mg/dL(8.9-11.4),potassium5.7mEq/L H(3.6-5.5),sodium150mEq/lTP6.9(5.0-7.4) Urine specific gravity1.027 91.015-1.050 AND I SEE NO REFERENCE TOSEDIMENT?? Doc was worried about ca Oxalate 4-10HPF Microalbuminuria testing reccomended

[dwetherell]

Annie and are are in Alaska doing what folks make reality shows about. I have been tromping the back country since 1968 and my stay in town is temporary at best. I am a Professional Hunter,Trapper, Photographer and am a writer wanna be.

[Harley PoMMom]

Urine specific gravity1.027 91.015-1.050 AND I SEE NO REFERENCE TOSEDIMENT?? Doc was worried about ca Oxalate 4-10HPF Microalbuminuria testing reccomended

Sediment can be if any casts, crystals, and/or blood is found in the urine, also if the WBC is elevated.

So if I am reading this correctly, crystals were found in the urine sample and after a stone analysis they were determined to be ca oxalate?

[dwetherell]

Well Annie TOOK me for a walk, trotting the whole way, and navigated my Daughters 12 step stairway at a good pace . Now we will wait to see what feed back the lab results I posted we get. If It is Cushings she does well.....kind of a waiting game .
Thanks Duane

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Annie, you have found a great site lots of info and encouragement...I just lost my doxie Simba, he was treated for almost a year...I'm glad I did treat him, the vet told me two years when he was diagnosed, but I don't think anyone knows forsure...hang in there...

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Annie, you have found a great site lots of info and encouragement...I just lost my doxie Simba, he was treated for almost a year...I'm glad I did treat him, the vet told me two years when he was diagnosed, but I don't think anyone knows forsure...hang in there...

[dwetherell]

Thanks, We are well Annie seems in much better shape than those I have read about, one bowl of food(a cup or so) lasts all day and she drinks about three to four cups a day on average.....she gets around well in comparison. She was extremely stressed at the vet(she had a hemotoma drained from her ear with a hypodermic only four days prior) so perhaps her lab work was scewed a bit. She hates strangers playing with her ears. No panting no hair loss........ so who knows for sure. maybe the blood work and such I posted will draw response from you all.
Duane

[dwetherell]

WBC NONE HPF (0-3) Perhaps this was not addressed in the lab RBC is also none (0-3) Microalbuminuria testing is recommended (if sediment is inactive) to help determine the clinical significance of proteinuria. This is a quote from the repoprt. Duane P.S. No stone analisis done the vet wants to x-ray to verify such. Then possible surgery.

[dwetherell]

Also there was no blood or bacteria in the urine

[Harley PoMMom]

The only possible way to know exactly what a stone is formed of is to have a stone analysis done. An X-ray really won't show the formation of the stone.

[molly muffin]

Stones can cause a lot of problems and cause all kinds of effects on the body.
My Molly's ALKP started to go up with crystals forming several years ago.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[dwetherell]

Vet said surgery may be needed the x-ray was to verify the presence of stones quite frankly I am not sure about the idea of surgery at all especially if she has immune troubles from cushings....
Any body have any input on the Lab results I posted because at this point Annie has a good quality of life and putting her through the regimin of tests and harsh medicines would be a detriment to quality of life.
Not to mention vets in my area have yet to be quizzed on their knowledge of Cushings....the Dr. I saw is going to help in trying to locate a vet in my area just in case.

[dwetherell]

After hearding and standing guard all last winter to keep the Fox and wolves at a distance from the old gal while she did her business I am not unwilling to pay vet bills, but I would rather take a chance with the predators than the majority of vets available to me.

[Harley PoMMom]

IMO, Annie's blood work does not scream Cushing's to me. With the elevations in the ALP and potassium I would suspect stones being the culprit and not Cushing's and any bladder/kidney problem can cause a dog to drink/urinate more. Dog's with Cushing's drink buckets of water, pee rivers and usually have a ravenous appetite.

An Xray should show if there are any stones present. My non-cush boy, Bear, had to have 2 operations to remove Oxalate stones. :eek: Its been over 2 years now since his last operation for those stones so hopefully they will not form again.

Love and hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

Hope you find out soon what is wrong with Annie. I know it is a worry. Please try to keep a daily doggie diary on her as you will reference it many times over. Blessings
Patti

[dwetherell]

I kept a journal of our year in the arctic so Annie is well chronicaled...she just got back from a couple mile walk with me today and her nose is the only thing that slowed her down.....I think the vet was concerned but most likely it may not be cushings her liver is enlarged and I got a chuckle from the vet when I said I would get her to an AA meeting, Annie just does not exhibit thirst or urination issues and her appetite is normal even though she is Ghandi like during my meal time but that is my fault not a medical issue, She does not go as far as she used to but with a little bit of exercise she performs better having worked her kinks out.This morning she took off trailing my Daughters cats taking the stairs at a trot and acting just like I would expect and last night she chased me at a run all over the house to get her ball park frank......My advice to any newcomers would be to be patient and research and get a few opinions just as we would if we had disturbing medical news.
I suppose it is case dependant, and although I am going slow I will get several opinions on the lab work before proceeding further...patience is easily counseled but not so easy to perform when worry is the motivating factor my normal vet is a Neandertal and I remain dissatisfied, the new gal at least gave a thorough exam.
Duane

[dwetherell]

I just wanted to take a moment to say thank-you for the support. I will update in September just for those who may be in my situation and unsure, as you have said symptoms are not solely devoted to Cushings

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Duane,

I am glad that Annie is doing so well and that the Cushing's diagnosis seems less likely. You know where to find us should you ever need us for any reason.

A year in the Arctic? When I read that my heart started pounding with the imagined adventures the two you must have experienced! What memories you must have!

Take care and know this family is here for you and Annie any time.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Hi Duane:
Wow a year in the Arctic!! That must have been some experience you two had. I am hoping that Annie is doing well, and when September comes that you finally know what is wrong with you girl. We are all here to support you as Leslie said, so whenever you feel the need, we will be here. God Bless you and Annie.
Patti

[dwetherell]

Annie is well and has no problem with thirst or urination,one bowl of water a day,so we will be heading out for another winter in the frozen north then will be looking into a sailboat and further adventure. Thanks for your help.
Duane

[molly muffin]

That is really good to hear Duane. So glad that Annie is doing so well.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin