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RebeccaG
08-13-2013, 09:17 PM
Hi, I am brand new to this forum and apologize if I am asking or discussing things that have been covered many times- I am a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information here!
(its a long story- questions at the bottom!)
Let me tell you first a bit about my dog, his name is Weebles and he is a 12 year old black lab who was born with a deformed front leg, preventing him from walking on it. For the majority of his life this was hardly an issue, he still enjoyed playing with other dogs, fetching and swimming like a champ! He never knew there was anything different about him, and has always been a happy go lucky, eager to please charmer! He learned all his commands and even a few tricks quickly, as he was bred to be a guide dog. He has never had any health issues, and went only once a year to the vet for the usual stuff. Several years ago, I moved out from my parents home, and Weebles stayed, as he had really become part of the pack with our family dog and two cats and I didnt want to separate him- I also work some long and crazy hours, and figured he would be better served with my retired mother's constant attention. I live close and still see him at least once a week, and used to take him on hikes.
About two years ago, I noticed he had really slowed down significantly, and initially attributed it to depression from his "sister" Happy the golden retriever, passing away. He then began having more and more difficulty with stairs. Other things I noticed were excessive panting or hind leg trembling with even mild exercise, a lack of interest in fetching and that he looked fat despite not gaining weight and no amount of coconut oil would keep his coat shiny. I decided he just was out of shape and needed more exercise, but wanted to rule out any heart issues first so I brought him in and asked for a top to bottom geriatric work up. The vet informed me that his heart was in good shape and all seemed well and I should proceed with working him out. She later called me to say they found a urinary tract infection and put him on an antibiotic. This seemed strange since he had shown no signs. When re-checking his urine, they saw something that indicated Cushing's. We didnt do any further testing because it is quite clear that that is exactly whats wrong with him. The vet's initial advice was that the medications were well outside my budget, and that although he was a bit slower, he was in no pain and treatment was optional. This was about one year ago. Over the last 12 months he has continued to grow weak in his back legs, now unable to even get on the couch unassisted. He does not stand or walk unless its absolutely necessary, and generally pees and poops within 1o feet of the front door and then lays down. with LOTS of prodding he will walk about 200ft to the end of the driveway and back, and it takes him about 20 minutes.
I spoke at length with my parents and was able to get them to agree to pay for his treatment (I pay for all of his other expenses) and we hauled him back to the vet where we learned he had another UTI and the estimate for medication cost had jumped from $100 a month to $85 a week! (I am not sure why this is- is she had miscalculated initially or what) The vet also did not seem to think treatment would improve his symptoms much, if at all. This cost is far more than we could afford in any case, but with such little hope it is certainly too much. I decided to try and research alternative treatments or alternative sources for medications and also became very concerned about all of the potential side effects and follow-up involved... because I am not with him 24/7 I worry a symptom might be overlooked.

Has anyone seen turnaround of muscle weakness? With what treatment? This is really my main concern, as he is already one leg short.

Has anyone tried any alternative or natural treatments?
He takes Glucosamine & Condroitin with MSM, Hylaurnic acid, eggshell membrane, tumeric and fish oil to keep his joints young.

Has anyone opted NOT TO TREAT cushing's? With what results?

I feel awful that money is a factor into my pet's quality of life... it frankly sickens me. I have been trying to take as much extra work as I can get my hands on, and even looked into selling my car... turns out I would only get enough to cover about 4 months of medication and testing.
Sorry for such a long story, I appreciate any advice and insight.

Rebecca

doxiesrock912
08-13-2013, 11:11 PM
Dogs with untreated Cushing's are prone to UTIs because their Cortisol is too high which in time can weaken the immune system. please take Weebles to an Internal Medicine Specialist, too many general vets don't know enough about this disease.

There are mail order pharmacies that provide quality meds at a much lower cost than the vets.

Initial treatment can be costly but once your vet has found the proper dosage, testing is done less frequently and most dogs live out the remainder of their lives happily.

Please read through the information under the helpful links section.

My dog Daisy Mae has been treated for Fishing's since May and she's doing really well! it is not a death sentence by any means. Others here have more experice and will join in soon:-)

Budsters Mom
08-13-2013, 11:28 PM
Hello and welcome from me too. :)
I am sorry for the reason that brought you here so glad that you found us. You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help, but be ready for lots of questions! So again, welcome to you and Weebles.:)

goldengirl88
08-14-2013, 08:37 AM
Hello:
Welcome to the forum. I just wanted to say to get a RX off the Dr. and go online and get the meds. You can look into my pharmacy it is about the cheapest I have found. Lambert Veterinary Supplies ask for the drug rep Nancy, she is great. I am however not so comfortable treating a dog with these powerful drugs that has not had LDDS and ACTH testing to definitely confirm Cushings. I know he does sound like he has some symptoms. As for the weakness in the hind legs it is from muscle loss. My dog has not regained hers. I do however take her for cold laser therapy. You dog could have arthritis and it was masked by the high cortisol, Labs are known for arthritis in later years. If you do not treat the dog, high cortisol will affect his organs. There are no known natural cures so I will save you the time of researching one. Otherwise there would be no need for this forum and we would all be using the natural cure. The drugs are Lysodren and Trilostane/Vetoryl they are the only known factor in controlling and managing Cushings. I wish you luck in helping your beloved Weebles. Blessings
Patti

Squirt's Mom
08-14-2013, 09:49 AM
Hi and welcome to you and Weebles! :)

I love his name! :D And he is so lucky to have you on his side!

The muscle wasting can be reversed but it can take some time after treatment is started. Some pups take longer than others...and some never recover full strength. Cush pups are prone to ligament tears as well so you might want to make sure this is going on with his legs. ;) ACL tears are fairly common with these babies.

I'm not sure where your vet got her figures, but that sure sounds high to me but we use Lysodren, not Trilostane (Vetoryl). I DO know that you can get the meds online often much cheaper than the vets will sell them to you. We will be glad to help you when that time comes. It does cost more to treat a large dog, of course. Trilostane (Vetoryl) can be more expensive to use both with the cost of the med as well as more frequent testing (Trilo can require quite a bit of dose adjjusting and with each change, the testing schedule has to start all over). But if that is what the vet is more comfortable using and HAS HAD THE MOST SUCCESS USING, then that may be your best bet.

However, both of these drugs are powerful and should NEVER, ever be used without a confirmed diagnosis of Cushing's - you don't just decide the pup must have Cushing's then dump one of these massive drugs in their system. Nooooooo. :eek::eek::eek: That is a recipe for disaster including illness, many extra vet visits and perhaps a day or so in the hospital....even death. So if you can't have him testing to confirm the diagnosis, please don't treat Weebles. There are numerous other conditions that cause the exact same signs as Cushing's and can even cause false positives on the testing. So making a diagnosis based on signs is very, very risky. I would much prefer to see Weebles go untreated as to face this risk personally.

Your vet's negativity has put me off but that doesn't mean they aren't a good vet. Treatment CAN and usually DOES improve the quality of life for our babies when it is handled correctly. That last part is the key - when it is handled correctly. And if they ain't handling things correctly, we have no problem letting you know very quickly and very loudly. :D You are in good hands with us.

In an ideal world, everyone would be able to afford the expense of consulting with an IMS. But unfortunately, that just isn't the case. So we each do the best we can with what we have...do not feel badly if you can't afford specialty care or a trip to the IMS. A trip to our GP vet means I can't pay all of my utility bill; a trip to our IMS would mean it wouldn't get paid at all this month or next more than likely. So we each do the best we can with what we have....do NOT feel badly that you can't afford to do as much as some here can. ;) Many specialists will not treat your pup on a regular basis but will step in only when the GP vet is over their heads. That's why they put in those extra years for the specialist status. ;) In our Helpful Resource section you will find a link to financial assistance links that may offer some help for you and your folks. Credit Care is pretty good and many vets accept it.

Natural remedies can help with some of the things in Cushing's but to find an alternative approach that has the potential to actually affect the cortisol, the enemy in Cushing's, can be quite a bit more expensive than the traditional treatments, Lysodren or Trilostane (Vetoryl). Please don't waste your time thinking about the snake oils like Cushex, Supraglan, Adrenal Gold, etc. If these products actually worked, our forum and the others like ours would not exists and all our babies would be on these produces doing fabulously. The only ones who benefit from these products are those who are selling them, taking advantage of the fear of parents like us to line their pockets with gold. ;) If you wish to look into a more natural approach, find a Holistic vet to work with. The supplements you are using for joint support are excellent and I would continue those for sure. As for not treating, here is a link that will give you some idea of what to expect if Weebles does have Cushing's.

Complications from untreated Cushing’s –
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195

I and many others here understand fully the financial burden this can present. More months than not I do without my own meds in order to make sure Squirt and the others have theirs. My diet is awful because they get food first. I could go on and on but the bottom line is this - I will do without whatever it takes to make sure they have what they need. I make every sacrifice possible for them...and they are worth it 100 times over. ;)

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time passes. You and Weebles are part of our family now and we will want to hear from you often whether he has Cushing's or not and whether you decide to treat or not. 'k? ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

goldengirl88
08-14-2013, 10:06 AM
Rebecca:
Please take in everything in Leslie tells you as she has sooo much experience and knowledge that will be a life saver to you. She has helped me immensely and is a wonderful person to do all the things she has done to help her babies. I too struggle like some with the finances, and have gone without things so my Tipper could get what she needs. That is all that matters to me is her well being, I come second to her needs. Just know we are all struggling too, some more than others. Leslie is very wise and will guide you thru this. Blessings
Patti

RebeccaG
08-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Wow! Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! Leslie, thank you especially for that side note about IMS vs GP! It is true that I think my vet is far from being the world's best. However, her office visit fee is about half the other local vet's, and the staff has always been so helpful and nice- when our golden died, we were in such a panic over her sudden collapse we didn't think to call ahead, and just burst into the office. Doc had taken the afternoon off to spend with her young daughter, the receptionist let her know we were there, and she was in the office 10 minutes later. So she's not an uncaring person, I'm just not sure if she's experienced with this.
I am going to get copies of all of Weeble's testing, and ask about the additional diagnostic tests.
Thanks again!

molly muffin
08-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Hello and welcome to the forum. :) UTI's can play real havoc on our furbabies. So, while cushing dogs are prone to UTI's, that needs to be cleared up.
If you can get the copies of all lab work and post anything that is abnormal on it, then we can take a look and see if anything jumps out at us too. Like Diabetes, Thyroid issues can all cause some of the same sets of problems.
So, check for what the glucose value is and T4.
Ask your vet, how much would an ACTH test or an LDDS test cost.
Muscle weakness, can take a while to clear up, if it clears up. It is hard to know how they will respond, if it will or won't.
Yep, don't forget to ask the vet about if they checked for an ACL tear in the back legs. That can be an issue with any dog and again, cushings dogs are prone.
I'm hoping that these are some questions that can be cleared up with a chat with the vet and some of them with the blood work already done.
It is awful how expensive some of these tests and drugs are.
Oh, ask you vet which drug they use and are most familiar with for treating cushings. That might give us an idea of what the cost might be going forward.
We're more than happy to help you try to figure this out. It truly is heart breaking.
And welcome to the forum!!! Gosh almost forgot to even say welcome. sheeshh

Sharlene and molly muffin