Ruby, Calcinosis Cutis

[alfred]

Hello, I have been reading this forum now for about a week and will share a little bit of mine & Ruby's journey. She was diagnosed with Cushings just before Christmas . My vet was very kind to give me all the information she could and then I went to work reading and searching and reading some more. She is a 10 year old Boxer and our third boxer in 27 years. She is the sweetest little girl. I l
& my husband love her to death. ( Irony ) to say that. I chose not to do the heavy drugs. So many potential side effects. We winter in Arizona ( we are from Alberta /Canada. ) , so I researched all winter and decided to try the holistic route. There were folks had some success with yogurt and pumpkin which I do daily. I also went to a chinese herbalist and spent $ 400.00 on Cushings Q1 & Yuechung . Not sure they have helped. I am going to start with " Cushex Drops and Flax Hull Lignans next . She has severe calsinosis cutis. So bad !
Going to try adding a pic.

Moderator's Note: I have move your first post for your girl Ruby into our main forum. This will give other members a chance to respond to you, & offer any help & feedback that might be appropriate.

[alfred]

Thank you, sure want to hear from others.

[spdd]

Welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place for information re Ruby. I'm not experienced enough and in the middle of learning but others here have years of knowledge to share.

[goldengirl88]

Hi:
Welcome to the group. Unfortunately these natural methods and Cushex drops do not work on Cushings. If they did everyone on here would be using them, and there would be no need to have this forum. The only method currently working to control cortisol production is Trilostane, or lysodren. There are many people who have come on here and decided to use Cushex etc. All you are doing is wasting your money on something that will not help your dog. I am sorry to sound so callous but that is the plain and simple truth. I hope you reconsider your choice for the sake of your dog. No one on here really wants to put their dogs on these drugs, but that is the only method available that will control the cortisol. I didn't want to do it either, but if I hadn't I think my dog would not be here. The group is to advise you and help you through this. The people on here have more experience with this disease than the vets do. We are also here to support you, even though we may not agree with your choice of treatment. That is an individual choice, we are only sharing our knowledge to help you. Blessings
Patti

[alfred]

Somehow I guess I know you are right. Thank you for your reply.
I just had such hopes and the information one reads gives that hope but this little girl is my best freind and there has not been one day without a bucket of tears over the havoc this is having on her body and my mind. She is loosing ground every day. Today is a particular bad day. I did see my vet yesterday to clean her sores and she was shocked at the way the cc had spread. I am going to talk to her today and see if she feels if we could still do a drug trial.
Thanks again...thanks for the blessing I will take it gladly.
Ruby's mom

[Trixie]

If it helps for you to know my dog is on Vetoryl/Trilostane for 4 months now with no ill effects. She definitely feels better with her cortisol controlled.
I can't predict the future and at some point perhaps the drug may cause side effects but right now it's working well. If managed carefully with a good vet, the medication can help your dog to feel better.
My suggestion is starting on a low dose...recommended is 1mg per pound of the dog. This was the approach my vet took and though there has been a lot of dose tweaking along the way we never had any problems of too much medication.
If you do opt for the drug I hope it works well for Ruby!

Barbara

[alfred]

Again thank you so much.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Ruby! :)

The CC makes this tough and is just about 100% proof of Cushing's - it is extremely rare for a non-cush pup to get CC. Unfortunately, unless the cortisol is controlled, the CC will not likely be controlled. And the only things that have the potential to truly control the excess cortisol are either Mitotane (Lysodren) or Vetoryl (Trilostane). Both are life-saving drugs for our cush babies.

Now, Cushing's is not a death sentence, even with the CC. That can make it a bit more difficult and time consuming but Ruby can still live out her full life span and beyond. So don't give up hope. Talk to her vet about getting this diagnosis confirmed and which treatment they are most comfortable using with Ruby. Get copies of all testing on Ruby from now on, the actual results, not the invoices. If you don't mind, post those results here and we will do our best to help you understand what they mean. This will help us help you a great deal. ;) I'm not very familiar with TCM herbs but I'm sure the Holistic vet will be willing to work with both approaches to make sure they both benefit Ruby - most are.

The pumpkin (plain not pie filling type) and yogurt won't help the Cushing's but they shouldn't hurt either so if she tolerates them I would keep using them. The flax lignans are part of a treatment for a form called Atypical in which cortisol is normal but other hormones are not (with the CC it is unlikely Ruby has this form) and is used in combination with melatonin. The flax lignans won't help the cushing's but as long as the extra fiber isn't an issue for her, they shouldn't hurt either.

A tip since you travel often - start a file to keep at home of all tests on Ruby from now on. This way should you ever need to take her to a different vet, you will walk in the door with all her info in hand. Keeping a daily diary of her eating, drinking, peeing, sleep patterns, moods, any changes you notice in behavior, and so on will also be very helpful not only to you but to her vets. This will help you see patterns that might otherwise be missed...and if you're memory is anything like mine, well...remembering what happened last week is sometimes a challenge! :D Members who deal with CC have said taking pictures periodically helps them see changes with the skin too.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time passes. No matter what you choose to do, we will do all we can to help you.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Squirt's Mom]

I have edited the title of Ruby's thread so others dealing with CC will know you are facing the same and hopefully come chat with you a bit. ;)

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome from me too. :)
You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help, but be ready for lots of questions! So again, welcome to you and Ruby.:)

[alfred]

I am greatful for your reply.
Ruby's mom

[Junior's Mom]

I read on another post you are having trouble navigating here. On the home page you will find a helpful resources section. It is full of information that is good to read. You can ask a million questions on your own thread, someone will be around to answer them. Each pup has their own thread, which is where they like all the information to go. If you can't find your thread because many people have been posting, just put your user name in the search box, and it will be easy to find. I hope this helps.

[alfred]

I am really stunned at the time & effort you have given me. My spirits are lifted a little and I am beyond greatful to folks I will likely never meet. I have a call into our vet now. God knows how broken I am. I have tossed all the things I was so hopeful for. She loves the pumpkin & yogurt and so it is just a treat when she runs and gets her dish and tosses it at me. Not too many calories. ( oh yes not pie filling, that can sits for me until thanksgiving!
Bless you & thank you I am learning as I go here.
Going to send a real time picture. Sleepy Ruby.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome. :)

As Leslie said the first thing is to get the cortisol level lowered enough to help with the cc. Now, not to be discouraging but it is one of the hardest and sometimes last thing to clear up with cushings. The eating, panting, peeing excessively will probably all clear up first. Do not be discouraged though, it can just take time and we are talking months, not weeks usually.

Have your vet do a skin scrapping to make sure that the cc hasn't gotten any infection, such as yeast in it. (that would require an antibiotic). Next we have had UDavis prescribe medicated wipes, a medicated shampoo, to help with another member dogs cc. This is again something to talk to your vet about.

Now, the vet themselves. We've had some vets who have said they are experienced in cushings and who turn out not to be. So, first, how many dogs with cushings have they treated, success rate, what drug to they use, do they know, understand and have used testing protocols for each drug. Depending on what drug your vet might prescribe to bring down the cortisol will depend on what you need to know specifically for your dog. Don't worry, we are here to help you with that as we have members who have used both.

Now, chin up :) You can do this and hopefully we'll get Ruby feeling better sooner rather than later and you too. It's a bit of a journey and we'll be right here every step of the way. Any questions, ask, someone will be around to answer. We have members all over the world, so people pop in and out at all hours.

Not a death sentence, okay. We've had members treat for many many years. So, lets not even go down that dark and dreary road. :)

Welcome to k9cushings!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[alfred]

My vet has said Ruby is in not a good candidate for drug treatments. The watching is so painful, the calsinosis is worse. We live in a town of 6000, not much help for me. In and out of tears.
The vet says the calsnosis will continue to spread. Has anyone seen it stop ..from spreading.
Ruby's mom

[doxiesrock912]

Honestly, please consider getting a second opinion. Especially being that your vet is baffled by the test results.

Thanks to this forum and the information provided here, I learned that the vets whom we were seeing were not knowledgeable enough with Cushings and we did seek the help of an IMS doc. Daisy Mae is now being treated successfully with Vetoryl (Trilostane).

IMS (small animal internal medicine specialists) vets have more experience with treating Cushings and most are willing to work with your local vet to educate them.

Please don't rely on one vet's opinion with this. Cushings is as difficult to treat as it is to diagnose and the fact that each dog responds differently makes it more complicated but it is not a death sentence.

Since you live in a small area, if you can't locate an IMS vet, I urge you to call Dechra (the manufacturer of Vetoryl) and arranging for them to confer with your vet in regard to the test results, how they were performed, and treatment options.

They have vets on staff that are experienced and many members of this forum have spoken with them.

[labblab]

My vet has said Ruby is in not a good candidate for drug treatments. The watching is so painful, the calsinosis is worse. We live in a town of 6000, not much help for me. In and out of tears.
The vet says the calsnosis will continue to spread. Has anyone seen it stop ..from spreading.
Ruby's mom
Can you tell us why your vet doesn't think Ruby can handle Cushing's treatment? If her cortisol level is not lowered, it is sadly true that the calcinosis is likely to continue to worsen. But your best chance of getting it under control is to begin effective Cushing's treatment.

How soon will you be heading to Arizona? Even if you have no other vet options in Alberta, we have several very active members and staffers who live in Arizona who can perhaps help you with a referral down there. The suggestion about calling Dechra (manufacturer of brandname Vetoryl) would normally be an excellent one, but unfortunately we've just learned that their U.S. office will not consult with Canadians.

But please don't despair. Unless there is a specific reason why Ruby cannot handle conventional treatment, I still have hopes that you can find her some competent help.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Well that is an oddity to hear a vet say that a dog isn't a candidate for treatment, as we have dogs with all kinds of other issues that are also on cushings treatment. Usually you hear that they are not a candidate for surgery to remove an adrenal tumor.
Do you know if this is being caused by a pituitary or adrenal tumor? This would most likely have been verified via an ultrasound. Does Ruby displace any signs of confusion, not wanting to put her head down, falling? (neurological signs)
I'm not sure where you are at in Alberta, but you would probably need to see a vet Or a specialist in one of the larger town centers for a second opinion. This could be Edmonton, Calgary, Lethbridge, etc, depending on where in Alberta you are located and if that is a possibility.
We often see vets in smaller towns that do not have enough experience (they just don't get that many cushings patients) with cushings and unfortunately the answer has usually been to seek help in a larger city.
Has your vet prescribed any medicated shampoo or wipes for the cc?
I assume you aren't heading to Arizona till the fall? But if Ruby can hang on till you get there, then yes you will likely be able to find a vet experienced in cushings, or one of our members might be able to point you in a direction and Dechra will help you if you just say you are in Arizona and your vet is in Arizona. Unfortunately everyone is right, here in Canada, Dechra will not have any communication with the owners, only with other vets and specialist.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

Hi and welcome,

I am so sorry you are going through this and I don't understand your vet's position but maybe there is more to the puzzle than we know. Calcinosis cutis can also be cause by overuse of steroids- even eye drops with steroids, which is hard to believe but I just read a study about it.

When it is caused by Cushings, the only way to control it is to treat the Cushings. Is it a tough road, yes, but it can be done.

Here is a link for you to read about a pup with a severe case of it. It has a good outcome.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=659278

Often times the pup has a secondary bacteria infection which needs to be treated with antibiotics. An antifungal, anti bacteria shampoo may also be needed.

I know it may seem hopeless right now and maybe your monetary resources are limited but please don't let the drugs scare you from treating your pup unless there are other health issues at play here that we have not been made aware of.

My Zoe was diagnosed with Cushings in April 2010. WE started Vetoryl /Trilostane In June of 2011. We have had many, many bumps in the road but she has had a good quality life, nonetheless.

And we are all here to help and support you.

[knitbunnie]

My little Pia had calcinosis cutis and it was pretty itchy. I gave her Benedryl, which was fine with the vet, and I also shampooed her with Neutrogena T/Gel shampoo (it's an OTC human shampoo for psoriasis and itchy scalp) and that helped a lot. Her CC looked better and it dried up.

[scoora]

My Scoop had calcinosis cutis last fall. The vet had it tested and it was infected. He was on Vetoryl. The vet gave me DMSO to put on it. I did that for a couple of weeks then Scoop had to have ear surgery. While he was in the hospital the surgeon used Mupirocin Ointment on it and after the 3 days in the hospital his C.C. looked so, so much better. I continued the ointment for weeks and it cleared up.

[molly muffin]

Hi Sandra, thought I'd stop in and see how you and Ruby are doing.
Hope there has been some improvement in the cc

Sharlene and Molly Muffin