Ruby

[Sharon]

Hi! I have a 12 year old vizsla who was having some subtle changes. Bald spot on tail, elevated triglycerides, low t4, increased drinking, increased peeing..but worse was the barking, hair standing on end and general anxiety. She was no longer snuggling and having trouble settling down. After much insistence on my part..as I was putting my girls fight or flight picture together..the vet finally started looking for cushings.
Uuugh,.....huge shaving of abdomen showing enlarged adrenals bilaterally but no masses. My poor girl is still hairless 2 months later!!
After much consideration we started the holistic approach of adrenal harmony gold (herbal) cholodin and synthroid to support her thyroid.
She became calmer, snugly, and quite a bit happier. We are feeding her spot stew..dry but with cottage cheese or egg on it...and carrots and broccoli for treats. Still wants water and pees a lot but somewhat better. Sleeps thru the night well.
Now with this heat she is panting and anxious ...drinking a lot :( nose is dry.
She has no sores thankfully and she actually seems thinner instead of the usual potbelly.
Just looking for any thoughts. Hate seeing her stressed although right now with a fan on her..she seems quite happy.

[frijole]

Losing weight is not typical with cushings dogs. What tests were done to confirm the diagnosis and what were the results? I ask because my Annie was misdiagnosed with cushing's and she lost weight.. it took me a very long time before we got the diagnosis right - adrenal tumor (not cushings kind). Her nose was dry at times also. So please get the test results so we can help confirm the diagnosis.

Re the peeing.... not fun we all know... but just so you know cush dogs don't pee from the water - they drink water because their kidneys are working overtime and as a result they pee... so they NEED the water. Never withhold water from a cush dog.

Here's some intro info on the disease as well as diagnosing it. Glad you found us. Kim
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5427

[Trixie]

Hi Sharon and welcome to the board. Sorry your girl Ruby is having some issues, it's so hard when they're not feeling up to par.
There are many helpful people in this forum who can help you. They will want you post the numbers from any tests you might have done and then they will be able to advise you and make suggestions.
Has your dog been tested and diagnosed for hypothyroid and Cushings at this point? If you have those results that would be a great place to start...and any blood test results and ultrasound findings as well.

I'm currently treating my 9 yr old Cushing's dog with Vetoryl. We're still tweaking the dose but the medication has reduced her symptoms, which were primarily drinking too much/peeing too much..it was such a relief to see these controlled. My dog has had no ill effects from the medication. There are some others on the board using holistic treatments...maybe some of them will chime in here.
I'm sure some of the experts will respond soon but they can help you better with some test numbers. ;)

Barbara :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Sharon and welcome to you and Ruby! :)

Broccoli is not something one with hypothyroidism should eat much of. It can cause the thyroid hormones to lower when they are already too low so I would stop that if I were you. Broccoli is from the Brassica family and plants in this family have the potential to lower thyroid hormones and should be used sparingly in those with hypothyroidism.

Adrenal Gold is made by PetWellBeing who also make a product called Supraglan, which is nothing but crap; it contains several ingredients that are dangerous for cush pups as well as glands (hence the "glan" portion of the name) from dead animals and the company couldn't assure those organs weren't diseased. The same company now makes Adrenal Gold, which has different ingredients, none of which should be harmful but none of which will help with cortisol, the enemy of Cushing's. Adrenal Gold contains herbs that can help the body overall, but that will not address Cushing's. While this product can be used as an adjunct to traditional treatment, no one should expect it alone to extend their baby's life with Cushing's. The only things that are proven do that are either Mitotane (Lysdren) or Vetoryl (Trilostane). Personally, if I wanted to use these herbs with my baby I would use individual herbs from a reputable supplier like Mountain Rose Herbs - PetWellBeing, the maker of Adrenal Gold and Supraglan, is not reputable nor trustworthy in my book. Anytime we decide to use herbs we need to be as sure as possible that our sources offer clean, pure herbs. There is no telling where PetWellBeing gets their herbs nor how they are handled or processed into the finished product. They have no problem using questionable organs so trusting them with herbs is not something I'm capable of. ;)

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2012/12/supraglan-replaced-by-adrenal-harmony-gold-different-ingredients-same-empty-promises/

When was the last time Ruby's thyroid function was checked? I think I would have that done first. The things you mention sound more like that is still not under control than Cushing's to me with what we know so far. Has diabetes been ruled out?

I'm glad you found us and look forward to seeing those test results. Hang in there, Mom!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Hello:
I just wanted to welcome you to the group. Please take into consideration what Leslie has told you. She is very schooled in this disease and she is trying to help you make a better decision to save your precious Ruby. I know from all of the people in this group that there is nothing for Cushings except the Trilostane or Lysodren that helps control the cortisol. Did you have all the tests done for Cushings? That is the first place to start. You need to get the testing and post the results on here so you can get help for your Ruby. You dogs life is going to depend greatly on what decisions you make for her. I hope your baby does well. Blessings
Patti

[Sharon]

so i should first say that i am a nurse and fully understand the pituitary/adrenal gland cycle. cushings can only be cured if you remove the pituitary or if the source is an adrenal tumor, you can remove that. The traditional treatments do not cure the disease and often make the pet sick. additionally the stim tests are extremely stressful to pet.
we repeated ruby's T4 tests a few times till we arrived at a healthy range..and will repeat in the fall.
her cortisol/creatinine ratio was suggestive of cushings which was essentially confirmed with an extensive abdominal ultrasound.
thank you for the brocoli info..i will stay away from that.
i will tell you that ruby is generally calmer and more herself since starting the regimen that we have her on. we give her endless water when we are home and just let her out often. she sleeps thru the night.
our vet (and 2 other vet opinions) is not really pushing all the stim tests and traditional treatment as the feeling is that it does not extend their lifespan.
we lost lola at 16, 2 years ago, and as hard as that was; it was almost too long. ruby is now 12 and we have a 3 year old she keeps up with pretty well.
my question is really directed at this heat intolerance with the extreme weather we are having. temperature regulation is driven by the pituitary so there is no treatment that is really directed at that if that is the primary source of illness.
thanks,
ruby's mom

[goldengirl88]

I was told that the Cush dogs cannot cool their cores down like they were used to, therefore you have to help in that respect, I use cooling harnesses with my dog and she does not go walking after 10:00. Good Luck Blessings
Patti

[Sharon]

yes this is true..hence the laying on tile floor etc. we are keeping air conditioner lower than usual and ruby is most relaxed in front of fan. looking forward to a break in this heat wave!!!
ruby's mom

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm really sorry you and your vet don't see treating this disease as worthwhile. You won't find many here who will agree with that assessment because we have seen how much the quality of our babies lives have improved with treatment and we have seen dogs suffer without it. Your vet is absolutely off the mark that treatment can't extend their lifespan. But this is your baby and we will support in the decisions you make - unless those decisions are obviously cruel. ;)

For your info -

Complications from untreated Cushing’s –
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195

[goldengirl88]

I second Leslie's thoughts as my Tipper would not have made it if I had not treated her. Her symptoms were very severe, and I would not want her miserable like that. I have heard many tell their dogs have lived quite a few years on here, so I do think it is worth treating. I never meant to insinuate the treatment cures the dog, it only controls the cortisol. We are just trying to help, as many on here have tried things that do not work, and wasted their money thinking it would help their dog. The members on here try to tell them this ahead of time to save heartache and money. Good Luck with Ruby and keep her cool. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too. There are some water bed type of bedding you can get that is suppose to be cooling. One of our members in Australia has used them. Patti might know what it is called as she was thinking of getting one for the same reason.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome from me to:)
You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help, but be ready for lots of questions! It looks like you are off to a good start. So again, welcome Sharon and Ruby.:)
Hugs,

[Roxee's Dad]

There are many cooling pads / doggy beds on the market. You may want to try one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=canine+cooler+bed&tag=hydsma-20&index=aps&hvadid=33324176394&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=45806979838870298&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_ck0i5msyh_b

http://www.theuncommondog.com/Categories/Dog-Beds-by-Feature/Cooling-Dog-Beds.aspx

http://www.chillspot.biz/

Advice is to let the dog find it on it's own and not to force him or her to lay on it.

[Sharon]

Appreciate all the info. Perhaps I am lucky ruby's symptoms are not severe. She is generally happy and is considerably calmer..less barking and anxiety than before regimen we are using. Be sure we are watching her closely and will pursue traditional treatment when and if her condition seems to be worsening. I just wanted to add that traditional treatment addresses the adrenal gland alone. For cushings that originates in the pituitary; you will still have all the other parts of the disease. The pituitary regulates temperature control and the endocrine system including releasing TSH which tells your thyroid to produce T3 and T4. Hypothyroidism is easily supported but all of this effects your immune system and hair growth/loss. Ruby had a very high alk phos but other liver functions are normal. Most vets/mds are not concerned with a high alk phos alone. We also did the usual rule out UTI and diabetes...before anyone would listen to me that it was cushings. Just the way she was barking with hair on end was enough for me to know she was flooding with cortisol!!