12 y/o Murphy (diabetic/paralyzed/Lysodren) - Murphy has crossed the Rainbow Bridge

[Angelam99]

Hello all,
I have a diabetic, 12 yr old white miniature schnauzer, Murphy. He weighs 15 pounds. His diabetes is controlled and he receives 4 units am, 5 units pm
About 1 month ago he was became partially paralyzed on his left side. Boy was I a basket case! Subsequently he was diagnosed as being atypical Cushing's, I am unsure about his blood work results. we just started Murphy on Lysodren, 3/4 tablet every 7-9 days.
From everything I am reading I am concerned about the medication and side effects.
Any help and suggestions are welcome. I was very happy to find this thread! Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Welcome to you and Murphy!

I wanted to let you know that I moved your post out of Simba's thread and started one for Murphy of his very own. We like to keep all info about each pup in their own thread so we can more easily keep up with history.

I'm glad you found us and am sure some of our diabetic parents will be along soon to chat. In the meantime, if you are not a member at our sister site, k9diabetes, please do go on over and register with them as well. They are the experts on diabetes. ;)

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

Wow you have your hands full and obviously love your dear Murphy. I can see why. Bless you for continuing the love despite his ailments.

Atypical cushings is not the same as full blown cushings. With atypical cushings some of the sex hormones are elevated (but not cortisol like in regular cushings). Lysodren helps control/reduce those hormones in order to treat symptoms you might be seeing such as hair loss, itchy skin and issues controlling the diabetes.

The dose you are on is called a maintenance dose and it is in line with his weight. You should not have to worry about any issues with overdose. Just pay attention and if he gets diarrhea or vomits post here and we'll help you out. That said I really wouldn't worry at that low dose.

Are you giving melatonin and lignans for the atypical cushings? Tell us what symptoms you have seen so far and how you determined he had atypical cushings.

Wishing you and Murphy the best and welcome to the family! Kim

[Angelam99]

Murphy is a great dog, I had him before I had my son :) He has been diabetic for about 5 years, got full blown cataracts 2 weeks after being diagnosed diabetic and was going blind. I couldn't leave him like that so he did have cataract surgery. Boy, was that a ton of money!!
The paralysis did resolve itself after about 5 days with the exception of his left front paw. The vet called it "knuckling". He did undergo acupuncture for several visits and I believe it helped. I do test his first morning urine for sugar percentages with Ketodiastix and was advised by the vet to keep a close eye on it since the Lysodren could affect his diabetes. The vet visit after the paralysis led to lots of blood work and recheck with the vet. It was all so overwhelming
I will look into the melatonin and lignans. Thanks !

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome. What an amazing guy Murphy is with an amazing furbaby mom. You have both over come so much. I am sure that you will over come this too. Acupuncture has helped many dogs and several of our members use it regularly.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Hopefully someone that has a diabetic dog can tell you what changes you might expect once on the lysodren.. I am not sure but you might have to lower the dosage.. please know I am working with a memory that is over 50. :o Kim

PS I used acupuncture on my Annie and had fabulous results

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome from me too. :)
I am sorry for the reason that brought you here, but so glad you found us. You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help. So again welcome to you and Your sweet Murphy.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Squirt's Mom]

Was Murphy by any chance tested for Cushing's during or just after the paralysis? It would help a great deal if you could provide a timeline of the diabetes, paralysis and Cushing's diagnosis.

Since Murphy has been diagnosed as Atypical, I am assuming the testing was done by the University of Tennessee in Knoxville? That is the only lab we know of that tests for Atypical.

[Trixie]

Oh poor Murphy has been through a lot lately...but sounds like he's hanging in there and doing well now that he had cataract surgery and the paralysis is mostly gone.
I don't know anything about Lysodren but I hope it helps Murphy feel better. I too have a schnauzer. I hope you'll be able to post a photo of Murphy when you have time. I'd love to see him.
Good luck with the new medication,
Barbara

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hi, welcome to the forum. My poodle Jenny also has diabetes and cushings but hers were diagnosed within 2 months of each other.

While her cushings was raging she needed 7 units of insulin twice a day. Once we got her cushings under control, using Lysodren, her insulin needs dropped to 3 1/2 units twice a day.

I had not been testing her blood sugar at home because I was a wimp and her levels were always so high it wasn't a concern. One morning her back legs were trembling very bad and the vet tested her blood sugar at 40. whoa. that was our first sign we needed to cut back on the insulin.

We have since dealt with numerous lows and keep karo syrup on hand at all times.

Some folks on the diabetes forum have had good luck with methyl B12 helping dogs with neuropathy in their back legs. Just a thought.

Lysodren worked too well on Jenny. We got her regulated, kept her on the maintenance dose for several months. In December of 2011 her ACTH test was excellent. the low blood sugar started in January 2012 and I stupidly thought we did not need another ACTH test because we had just done one.

Over the next couple of months her insulin needs dropped down from 3 1/2 units to barely 1/2 unit

By the time I got her to the specialist in April her cortisol level was .2. She has been off all cushings meds for over a year now and her cortisol is slowly rising.

So be alert to all symptoms. But the insulin and cortisol levels definitely play off of each other.

If Murphy just developed cushings, he may need more insulin till you get him under control.

sorry I wrote a book. Judi

[Angelam99]

I posted a few photos of Murphy
Judi- I do test Murphy's urine daily...I just can't do blood tests on him. The Ketodiastix work well and if he is high or low 2 days in a row I increase/ decrease 1 unit of insulin. You can try it on Jenny, at least it would give you a baseline. Thanks for the suggestion of the methyl B 12
Murphy was tested for Cushing's & Addison' s when he was originally diagnosed 5 years ago. He was tested recently by Univ of Tenn after the paralysis occurred.
He has tolerated the Lysodren ok so far... His sugar is elevated since his first dose, so I will be monitoring daily. His is my furry child

[Roxee's Dad]

Thank you for posting those wonderful pics... they both look like sweethearts :D

[molly muffin]

Love the pictures!! What a couple cuties. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

awww..Murphy is so cute, and so is Thomas. I had a schnauzer growing up too and she was very pale silver and looked a lot like Murphy. I hope Murphy's feeling better soon and that the Lysodren does the trick.
Barbara :)

[Budsters Mom]

Just popping in to send you and Murphy tons of hugs and healing energy.:)
Kathy

[Angelam99]

Thanks to everyone for their kind words and suggestions
It seems that Murphy's sugar has been increasing, I am testing him daily and have been increasing his insulin accordingly.
I will be ordering the lignans and melatonin tomorrow
We will see what tomorrow brings as far as glucose testing.

[Angelam99]

Murphy has had his second dose of Lysodren on Thursday. His sugar did become elevated initially but it seems to have leveled off. His is getting 5 units in the AM and 5 units in the PM. I do monitor him daily and will continue to do so. We will be going for follow up blood work in 2 weeks. He also has hyperlipidemia ( high fat concentration ) in his blood that necessitates medication ( gemfibrozil).
Our thanks to everyone for their kind words and suggestions

[Roxee's Dad]

Thank you for coming back and updating us. :) How is Murphy doing?

[Angelam99]

Murphy tested negative for his sugar level this morning, got his Gemfibrozil med ( for hyper lipidemia) had breakfast and received 5 units of insulin. When I got home tonite he got his Gemfibrozil, wrapped in turkey, of course, and I let him got out. When he came back in he was acting lethargic and didn't 't want to eat. Since he hasn't eaten I will not be giving him insulin. Maybe the heat got to him? Could it be a delayed reaction to the Lysodren?
I am just gonna watch him during the rest of the night and test his sugar again in the morning

[Harley PoMMom]

Since last Thursday was the last dose of Lysodren given, I don't think it's that. I just "googled" for side effects of Gemfibrozil and nausea and heartburn are listed along with others, maybe ask the vet if something can be given for either one of them?

[frijole]

I just want to confirm you are giving 3/4 of a pill every 7 to 9 days. Note to others - this dog isn't full blown cushings - it is atypical cushings so it is a maintenance dose.

It might be that you need to take that and split it in two and give it every 4-5 days to keep things more even keel but with everything you are dealing with it might not be the lysodren and I wouldn't do a thing without talking to your vet. Sending hugs, Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

Ok...it is unlikely the Lyso is causing the reaction you saw when he came it...that is probably the Gemfibrozil. Ask your vet about giving him a Pepcid AC (must be the AC form) or Tagamet to help with the digestive upset.

Now about the Lyso dosing - the schedule he is on is probably worthless. Lysodren has about a 48 hour life in the body which means that two days after his pill the Lyso is leaving his system and there is nothing left for the next 5 days. At 15 lbs, Murphy needs 340 mg a week - divided over 2-4 days. So he should be taking 1/4 tablet 3x a week for a total of 375 mg/week (rounded up from 340 mg for easy division of the pill).

Let us know how Murphy is doing!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

Leslie I just wanted to make sure and clarify you are talking about a dose for an atypical cushings dog. (note others might read this and be confused since dosing is different and there's no loading)

[Squirt's Mom]

Right - that would be a maintenance schedule, not loading. Atypical pups do not load but go directly to the maintenance schedule.

Loading is taking a dose twice a day - maintenance is taking that same dose spread out over a week. ie - if the loading dose was 375 mg you would divide that in two and give half twice a day. Then maintenance would be 375 mg a week, given 2-4 times over the week.

[Angelam99]

Yes ... Murphy is being treated with 3/4 tablet of Lysodren every 7-9 days. He was diagnosed as atypical Cushing's.
His sugar this morning was 2% plus as tested on the Ketodiastix test strip. He did receive 5 units of Insulin. He is drinking but not eating. When I got home tonite he did throw up in his crate. He is not receiving his gemfibrozil since he can't keep anything down. Poor little guy, I know he is just not feeling well. If this continues into tomorrow, we are going to visit the vet.

[frijole]

Hmm... strange - vomit and not eating are both signs that cortisol is too low. How many total doses have you given Murphy so far? I would call the vet and report this and hold off on lysodren until you talk to him/her. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

His last dose of Lsyo was this past Thurs, the 4th - right? He got 375 mg then?

If that was his last dose, it should be leaving his system by now - Lysodren peaks at around 48 hours then starts to lose effectiveness so I'm not sure the Lyso is the problem. However, I would not give him any more until you talk to the vet because you never know. Murphy could be extra sensitive to Lyso. ;)

I wonder if the two meds make each other stronger, more powerful, than they are alone? You can call your pharmacist, or any pharmacist, and ask about that. I'm just navel gazing looking for ideas but some drugs do sort of boost other drugs. (The brand name of Lysodren is Mitotane, just in case you need that info.)

[Angelam99]

I did speak to the vet tonite. Murphy got the prednisone dose as the vet indicated, no insulin, no food..... So far no better.. I did manage to get some water in him with a medicine syringe. He is just laying in his crate, I hate feeling so helpless.
We will be going to the vet first thing

[frijole]

Good job mom. Keep it up - I know it's a helpless feeling and you have so much going on. We are all with you sending strength and love. Keep us posted on how the vet visit goes ok? Kim

[Trixie]

Hoping Murphy is feeling better by now and that you got some answers and help at the vet. Sending positive thoughts.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Checking in to see how Murphy is doing. Hope all is better today. What did the vet say?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelam99]

I just wanted to write a quick post.... Murphy has surgery this morning for twisted intestines. He had several perforations and a tumor was found He was just too weak. He is no longer suffering. I am crying as I type this .... My thanks to everyone for their kind words and suggestions

[Roxee's Dad]

I am so very sorry for your loss of Sweet Murphy. You did everything possible. My heart hurts for you.

Rest in Peace sweet Murphy, Tonight you are our newest and brightest star in the sky......

[Trixie]

I'm so very sorry to read the news about Murphy. You did everything you could. So sorry for your loss....it's so hard.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh no!!! I am so very, very sorry. My heart just breaks for you and your family. Tears are flowing. You did everything you could and I know Murphy tried really hard to over come everything.
He'll live on forever though through your love and your memories of him. We're here for anything you need.
My condolences.
hugs,
Sharlene

[doxiesrock912]

Awww :(
My sincere condolences.
Perforated intestines and a tumor! That's a lot for any dog to recover from. No wonder Murphy felt like poo:(

Angela, you did you're absolute best for him. He's running free and healthy in Heaven now. Many of us here believe that we'll see our pups again when it's our time.

Hugs and comfort to you and your family.

[Trish]

So sorry to read about Murphy's passing, poor guy was really up against it. You did so much for him, but this must be such a sad time for you so I am sending you loads of hugs. RIP sweet Murphy, you were so loved here in this life and I hope you are having a fine old time at the Rainbow Bridge

[spdd]

So sorry to hear about Murphy. My thoughts are with you during this difficult time.

[Tina]

Angela, I am so sorry to read the latest about Murphy. I hadn't posted to you, but have been following along. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family at this very sad time.

Hugs,
Tina

[frijole]

Oh no. I'm so sorry Angela. RIP dearest Murphy. You fought the good fight and were so loved. Run free now of all pain. Kim

[mytil]

I am so incredibly sorry to read this. Your little guy will always be with you. I know the pain is pretty intense just now and thank you for coming back and letting us know.

I have added his name to our very special remembrance list http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4794 (in our In Loving Memory section)

Stay with us
Always in Memory of your boy Murphy,
Terry

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, Angela,

I am so sorry to hear this! GDV comes on so suddenly and few dogs survive it. Please know there is nothing you did to cause this and nothing you could have done to prevent it.

You have done so much for Murphy, given him so much in order to make his life as wonderful as possible - Murphy knows this and is so very grateful to you. He is now whole once again, strong and running free in the Rainbow Fields. When your time here is done, Murphy will be there to greet you as you Cross, flying into your arms and covering your face with kisses.

Please know we are here anytime you wish to talk.
Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Sophie and our Angels, Ruby, Crystal, Tasha and Josie


I ONLY WANTED YOU

They say memories are golden
well maybe that is true
I never wanted memories,
I only wanted you.

A million times I needed you,
a million times I cried.
If love alone could have saved you
you never would have died.

In life I loved you dearly,
In death I love you still.
In my heart you hold a place
no one could ever fill.

If tears could build a stairway
and heartache make a lane,
I'd walk the path to heaven
and bring you back again.

Our family chain is broken,
and nothing seems the same.
But as God calls us one by one,
the chain will link again.

--- Anonymous ---

[Budsters Mom]

Dearest Angela,
I am so sorry that your tough little fighter has crossed the rainbow bridge. My Buddy just recently crossed over. I am sure that he and all of our Cush pups who have passed before him, were there to welcome Murphy. Murphy is now running free with the rest of them. No more pain or meds, just puppy playtime. I know how you are feeling right now. We are here to help you anyway we can. Keep coming back and talking with us. It helps. Xxxxxx

[IWALY]

So very sorry, sending love and prayers.

[Simba's Mom]

So sorry to hear about your precious Murphy, sending hugs and prayers...

[Fellasmom]

Angela
I haven't written to you before but am so very sorry to hear about Murphy.I recently lost my boy so I know the heartache that you are feeling.You are in my thoughts and prayers and please know we are all here for you.
Patty

[scoora]

Angela, I have only just read about your sweet boy Murphy. I am so sorry to hear about his passing. I know how much your heart is breaking as I recently lost my sweet boy. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[goldengirl88]

Angela:
I am so sorry to hear that you precious baby has passed. There are many on the bridge waiting to help him over. God Bless you both.
patti