7 year old Miniature Schnauzer with possible lymphoma and Cushings. Need advice.

[Brie'smom]

Hi! I just found your site and don't know a lot about this disease but am studying and reading everything I can. My schnauzer Brie is 7 years old and I took her to the vet because she pants all the time. She also has a potbelly. We thought she was just overweight. The vet thinks she has Cushings. Her Alk Phos levels were 5 times normal. The X-rays showed an enlarged liver. So we discussed doing the test in the near future. So when I got home I was petting her and noticed a big lump on her chest. I called the vet clinic back the next morning and asked if they had noticed it. The girl said the vet wasn't in, but checked his notes and it said there was a mass and he called it a lymphoma. That was this morning. So I am unsure why I wasn't told about it. But regardless, this is looking really bad. I am trying to decide how to proceed. She doesn't appear to be in pain, maybe more uncomfortable from the big abdomen and the panting has to be tiring. Other than that, she acts about like she always has. Just thought I would ask for some advice from you that have been through this. I don't want to put her through a lot if it isn't going to do any good. I want quality of life over quantity of life. Please, any advice would be wonderful. I love my girl, have had her since she was a baby and only want what is best for her. Thank you!

[Trixie]

Hi there... I think the girl you spoke to on the phone probably said a lipoma, not a lymphoma. It's a fatty lump and usually benign--and guess what??? Common for schnauzers. I have also just (one week ago!) discovered one on my 9 yr. old mini schnauzer too! I doubt very much the vet would not have told you about something as serious as lymphoma...a lipoma is not usually anything to worry about.
We recently got a Cushing's diagnosis...same symptoms and same high liver level. You'll need to test to be sure about Cushings. Right now my dog has been on Trilostane for about a month...(I have to check it maybe 5 weeks now). Her symptoms...drinking a lot (tons), panting, etc are now starting to decrease. The liver levels will be checked at our next test.
Meanwhile you don't have to panic about the lipoma. I can feel the one on my dog too...it doesn't bother her a bit. Look it up online and you will feel a lot better. I'm sure your vet will clarify when you are able to talk.
Cushings isn't great but can be managed with medication. My dog is doing quite a bit better. There are many people here who know a lot about Cushings, they will help with any of your questions, they have been a great support to me here with all my worrying. I'm still kind of new but since I just went thru exact same thing feeling the soft lump on my dog I thought I would try and help you to feel better about what you found.
Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Brie,

Is the lump soft to the touch and movable? If yes, then I believe Barbara is right about the lump being a fatty tumor (lipoma). I would call back and ask to talk to the vet personally.

Strong symptoms are a huge part of making the diagnosis, and a Cushing's savvy vet will not initiate any treatment without strong symptoms and a proper diagnosis. Not one test can confirm Cushings or the type of Cushings and any non-adrenal illness can create false positive results on all tests for Cushing's which makes it one of the most difficult diseases to diagnosis properly.

If you could get your hands on all copies of the tests that were done on Brie and post any abnormalities that are listed, that would help us to provide you with better feedback. Also, does Brie have any other health issues? Is she taking any other herbs/supplements/medicines?

The one important thing to know is that Cushing's is not a death sentence for a dog and it is very treatable, ok? ;)

We are here to help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask questions. :)

Love and hugs, Lori

[Brie'smom]

Thank you for the advice! Sorry I haven't been back on here but we got hit by a bad storm and had lots of damage and we have been very busy trying to clean up and deal with insurance and all that. I talked to the vet this morning. This was his first day back in the office. He said that he assumed since the mass was so large that I already knew about it. So I asked him what he thought about it and he said we will just have to do a needle biopsy and see. So we are doing that tomorrow. So depending on the results of that, we will see what we will be doing about the Cushings. I will post tomorrow night and let you know how it goes. Thank you for the support!
Betsy

[Brie'smom]

And I also meant to ask... What does everyone think of the homeopathic medicine for Cushings? I ordered some, just for curiosity sake to see if it helped with her symptoms at all. Was wondering if anyone had tried it? The one I got is called Cushex.

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Brie,:)
I am sorry for the reason that brought you here, but so glad you found us.:)

You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help.
So again welcome to you and Brie,

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Betsy,
Sorry about the storm damage you had. Wow...can't believe your vet assumed you knew about a mass in your dog and just didn't mention it to you at all? It didn't come up during the examination when he felt it?
So, the girl at the vet's office you mentioned in your post did say lymphoma? I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions by thinking she misspoke. It just seems so strange the vet didn't bring it up as a possible cause for you being there in the first place.
I really hope your dog does have a lipoma and not lymphoma.
As far as the Cushex goes I believe the more seasoned people on this board will tell you that it does nothing and should not be sold as a remedy for Cushings but I really don't know much about it.
Right now you don't know if your dog has Cushings so you're doing the right thing by addressing the mass first. Hoping your Brie has nothing serious.
Barbara

[Brie'smom]

Thank you Barbara. Yes, I was pretty shocked too. It was a new vet that I wanted to try that my sister goes to, so I have gone back to my regular vet. I have a hard time swallowing that he didn't tell me. And to just assume I knew sounds crazy to me. He is a very nice elderly man and I wonder if he forgot? I know that sounds crazy but I am a nurse and I saw several signs of maybe mini strokes, he searched for words and had a hard time saying what he wanted to say sometimes. So I am not sure if it was purposely or an accident. Either way, the needle biopsy appointment is with my regular vet. I went and filled them in today.
In response to the question earlier, the mass is not moveable and it feels like it goes back up under the front leg. Brie's labs were as follows:
Hematocrit 41.5
Hemoglobin 14.9
MCH 24.7
MCHC 35.9
MPV 11
Platelet count 280 10^3
RBC 6.02 10^6
RDW 9.4 10^3
Bands, neutrophil 0%
Basophil 0%
Eosinophil 2%
Lymphocyte 9%
Monocyte 7%
Nucleated RBC negative
Platelet count 285 10^3
I will post more on my next comment. Afraid I will lose them by getting timed out.

[Brie'smom]

RBC Morphology no abnormal findings
Rouleau Formation RBC negative
Segs, Neutrophil 82%

Electrocardiogram Sinus Arrhythmia

Chloride 121
Potassium 4
Sodium 160

Albumin 3.6
Alkaline Phosphatase (ALKP) 829
ALT/SGPT (ALT) 60
Amylase 752
Bilirubin 0.4
BUN 16
Calcium 10
Cholesterol 235
Creatinine 1.1
Globulin 3.7
Glucose 106
Phosphorous 3.5
Protein, total 7.3

Urine bacteria positive
Urine crystals positive
Urine casts negative
Urine epithelial cells positive
Urine RBC positive
Urine WBC positive
Urine specific gravity 1.038
Urine bilirubin negative
Urine glucose 0
Urine ketone 0
Urine occult blood negative
Urine PH 5
Urine protein 100
Urine urobilinogen 0.02
Whew! I think that's all of them!

[Brie'smom]

I was reading some of the other posts and realized I didn't ever finish telling about Brie's symptoms. I said the panting and pot belly. She also drinks quite a bit, and has within the last 6 months, started urinating in the house. My dogs normally don't go over 4 hours between being let out to potty, except at night, so that shouldn't be the issue. Even at night it is 8 hours, tops. I go to bed late and get up early. Her coat isn't as shiny as it used to be and it is thicker on her legs than on her body. (My dogs are on Royal Canin and the others are very shiny and healthy appearing). She doesn't seem to eat a lot, she mostly seems to graze all day. The vet did X-rays of her abdomen, it looked like she swallowed a basketball! He said her actual stomach looked squished flat. Her intestines took up all this room in her abdomen. She weighs 28 pounds. She appears bloated in the abdomen. One thing interesting, she had pancreatitis one time, and the vet put her on antibiotics. Within days she looked like she had lost 10 pounds. The bloating was completely gone. Them when the antibiotics stopped, it came back. She does still jump into the car, up on the couch, etc. Not often but occasionally. Saw her do it today to lick my 6 year old granddaughter in the face. :)
Okay, that is all I can think of for now.

[Simba's Mom]

Welcome to you and Brie, what a pretty name, so glad you found this site...get ready for lots of info and encouragement too, we all know how you feel, just remember we are here for you and your furbaby too...

[Harley PoMMom]

I was wondering if you could do us a favor and go back and edit your post with the Chemistry/CBC blood panel results and type in the units of measurement and the reference ranges...Thanks!

I also noticed that Brie's urine sample showed that bacteria and crystals were present, also the RBC & WBC were both positive. This could be attributed to an UTI and/or stones which can cause a dog to drink/urinate more than normal. Has your vet mentioned anything about the findings in her urine sample?

Love and hugs, Lori

[Brie'smom]

Hi Lori! They didn't give me reference values. Just medically relevant/ not medically relevant. I will just repost abnormals.
Lymphocyte %. 9%
Segs, neutrophil % 82%
Alkaline Phosphatase (ALKP) 829 U/L
They didn't list the urine findings as medically relevant and he didn't mention treating them.
Urine protein was 100 and he has a question mark beside that as being unsure if relevant or not.
This is from the vet I am not going back to so will take this to my regular vet and see what they say today when they do the needle biopsy.
I was thinking the reason the urine specimen was not worrisome was because her WBC count in her blood was not elevated. So that would be elevated if there was infection present right?

[Trixie]

Hi Betsy,
I'm still new to Cushings but the knowledgeable ones will give good advice on the numbers. Schnauzers are so prone to pancreatitis.
My dog's alkp was up into the 1200s and many dog's with Cushings are even much higher than that.
The water comsumption was our first sign of something wrong. Even during the first 2 weeks on the medication she was up to almost 50 oz a day!! She only weighs about 14-15 pounds so that's a lot of water. Now after a month or so on medication thankfully the water intake has finally started to be more towards normal. She also had a bigger appetite than usual. We had a little bit of panting, tummy bloating, and sleeping on the cool floor which wasn't the norm for her. Of course all dogs are different and have a different range of symptoms.
I feel sorry for the elderly vet you saw who probably has vast experience but as you said maybe suffering from mini strokes. I hope somehow he's wrong about the lymphoma. I hope you will soon have some answers on Brie's condition.
Barbara :)

[Brie'smom]

Hi Barbara! Thank you. I feel sorry for him too. He was super nice. He just seems to struggle with things. He will probably have to retire before long and as you said, I am sure he has a vast amount of knowledge. Growing old sucks!

[Trixie]

haha Betsy...I was going to say the same thing! :D Getting old does suck! :eek:

[Brie'smom]

Its a LIPOMA! Yay!!!!

[Trixie]

Betsy! That is great!! :D :D
I just knew it because the same exact thing happened with me just 2 weeks ago! Here we were dealing with Cushings and then I felt this lump and my heart sunk and I thought the same as you that things looked bad!! That's when everyone on the board told me it was probably a lipoma. I was so relieved!! Then I googled it and saw how common it was for schnauzers to have them. The description online was exactly what I felt on Trixie, and in a common place too.
Anyway I couldn't be happier for your news!! Yay for Brie. :D
Now you can tackle the possible Cushings issue...which she may not even have!
Happy that you can feel some relief!
Barbara

[lisamak]

Hi there...I'm pretty new to the Cushing's game myself so can't offer much advice on that front. However, folks were right that you need to have a talk with your vet about some of the things that showed up on her results (like a possible UTI) and clear all of that up - and then see what symptoms may still linger. If its a lipoma you don't need to do anything about it unless its in a spot that bothers her.

As for the Cushex, I studied homeopathy and herbs and use plenty of alternative meds on myself and my dogs...however that tonic is really just a support system to the body. It will not replace traditional therapy if indeed your girl ends up with a Cushing's dx (which may not happen). I would not start it because the dandelion in it is also a tonic to the urinary tract...using it may interfere with antibiotics you may start and/or it may be contraindicated if her crystals turn out to be a sign of stones.

You've got a lot on your plate - especially with the storms - so I'd just work with your vet to identify all the little things that could be going on and work on those and see what's left after all that :)

~~Lisa and Vince

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lori! They didn't give me reference values. Just medically relevant/ not medically relevant. I will just repost abnormals.
Lymphocyte %. 9%
Segs, neutrophil % 82%
Alkaline Phosphatase (ALKP) 829 U/L

That is really odd that the lab didn't list reference ranges. :confused: I think that is the first time that I've seen this occur.


They didn't list the urine findings as medically relevant and he didn't mention treating them.
Urine protein was 100 and he has a question mark beside that as being unsure if relevant or not.
This is from the vet I am not going back to so will take this to my regular vet and see what they say today when they do the needle biopsy.
I was thinking the reason the urine specimen was not worrisome was because her WBC count in her blood was not elevated. So that would be elevated if there was infection present right?

I really don't have any idea if the blood WBC would reflect the WBC's found in the urine. I just know that when blood is found in urine with a elevated WBC that this can be attributed to an UTI. Does Brie have any difficulty when urinating, does it seem that she is she trying to pee a lot? Does her urine have any odor to it?

Also when crystals are found in concentrated urine, which Brie has, this is concerning.


Its a LIPOMA! Yay!!!!

Oh, this is great news!!!

[molly muffin]

Hi and welcome to the forum. :)
Yay for the lipoma! So glad it wasn't the other word..uck, don't even want to go there and now we don't have to :)
Yikes crystals. Her urine is pretty concentrated, so crystals can become stones. That you don't want. I have a heck of a time with my molly getting her drink enough water and try to keep the crystals under control. I'd Definitely have a chat with the vet about that too.
I'm with Lori, never saw a lab that didn't have the range, and note high/low on the lab results. Weird.
Anyway, I'm soooo glad about the lipoma news and glad you'll be seeing a vet that can, um, look over the results and come up with a plan of action for you.

Again, Welcome to the family :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin