My BEST FRIEND & LOVE OF MY LIFE, JADA dx'd with big 3

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

IpR Ok, new to the while forum posting thing but here we go.....

My name is Carla, and I have had my JADA for 9 yrs now. She was diagnosed with hypothyroidism first ( around two years ago), and just recently was diagnosed with cushings disease, then diabetes... As you all know dealing with these diseases are hard and costly but are definitely worth it for my baby. since I am on disability, my whole check goes to her ,her foods ,her medicatiion, anything she needs . In danger if losing my place because can't keep up with rent, but will do ANYTHING for my girl!!!!! Anyway, I am soooo angry eith the first vet that dx'd her thyroid issue, as I repeatedly kept taking her in because of pu/pd (increased urination/ increased water intake) in which the doctor kept saying that these were side effects of her thyroid issue.... Took her to another vet, that vet took one look at her and said "test her for Cushings".. LDDS TEST positive fir cushings, started Trilostane, vomited 3 days in a row while taking Trilostane. Decided to do U/A on her, took urine to 2nd vet (cheaper) &glucose is off the chars high!!!! So relayed this info to vet that diagnosed her cushings and they stated diabetes IS secondary to cushings, and once cushings controlled, the diabetes will be controlled... Sometimes yes and sometimes no.. So ended up taking my J to internist who stated that J must be on insulin (BG=500) ,

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

My Jada was diagnosed with hypothyroidism around 2 yrs. ago, and even tho her symptoms still remained (pu/pd= inreased urine output/increased water intake)that vet stuck by her diagnosis... Took my girl to another vet and tested positive for Cushings via LDDS TEST. They started her on Trilostane, and my poor baby vomited each day she was on it, so I took her to internist here in south Florida, who in turn advised me that J alsi has diabetes. She advised me to d/c her Trilostane until BG regulated by insulin, food, and bi weekly curves. The cushings and diabetes were dx'd in March 2013, and even tho her bg is still high, they are coming down gradually, just did 1st followup LDDS TEST in which v et stated today that Jadas cushings is properly controlled with 1cap. 60mg . Trilostane. Was SUPPOSED to do curve today, except today was 1st day since diagnosis that Jada didnt eat all breakfast. Since my disability income is little, we r in danger of being evicted bc Jada's bills high, but will do anything for my babygirl!!!! Just takin it one day @a time, glad I found this site!!! :-)

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

I Also wanted to state that keeping a journal for your baby helps tremendously and since diet is restricted bc of diabetes... I take Jadas canned OM food , cut into slices width wise and bake it in oven for about 10-15 minutes@ 375°. If have any other recommendations, please help.... Especially, like today, when she didnt eat her breakfast, bc U cant give full dose insulin or Trilostane without food!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: Your post has been manually approved so that members can start responding to you. Please check your email for a message from k9cushings. You will need to reply to that email so that your post go directly to the board and are not delayed waiting for approval. If you have already received and responded to the confirmatory email, please be patient. Your registration will be finalized shortly. Thanks and welcome!

In addition, I have merged your three posts into one thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Carla,

Welcome to you and Jada! I am so sorry for the reasons that brought you here but glad you found us.

Since Jada has diabetes I strongly urge you to join our sister site that deals with canine diabetes, here is the link: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/ When one is dealing with a diagnosis of Cushing's and diabetes, the diabetes should come first to treat.

Cushing's is one of the most difficult diseases to get a confirmed diagnosis for because not one test is 100% accurate at diagnosing it and any non-adrenal illness, such as diabetes, can create false positive results on all test for Cushing's. So if I were you I would stop the Trilostane and focus on getting the diabetes under control because the uncontrolled diabetes could of created a false positive result from the LSSD test.


I was wondering if you could get copies of all tests that were done on Jada and post all abnormalities that are listed. We are especially interested in the results of tests for Cushing's, like those LDDS results. Could you also tell us what dose of Trilostane the vet rx'd for Jada? Is Jada taking any other herbs/medicines/supplements? Does she have any other health issues?

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[frijole]

Glad you found us. I want to warn you - we ask alot of questions. But it's only so that we can help you. You have a lot going on and I want to make sure we understand.

When dogs are diagnosed with both cushings and diabetes at the same time sometimes it ends up being just diabetes. THis is because the symptoms are the same and when you do the LDDS test on a dog with other issues such as diabetes it comes back with FALSE POSITIVES FOR CUSHINGS.

It could be you have both but maybe not. So we need to see all of the results from all of the tests you have had done and any blood work. ok?

We also need to know the amount of trilostane you are giving (60 mgs once or twice a day?) and your dogs' weight. (so we can check dosage)

Whenever a dog vomits on trilostane you always STOP GIVING IT until you do an acth test to see what the cortisol levels are.
This is because it could be the dosage is too high and if you keep giving it your dog could get very sick. Another sign that the dosage is too high is when a dog won't eat. Those are the two main signs (along with diarrhea)


You mentioned:

The cushings and diabetes were dx'd in March 2013, and even tho her bg is still high, they are coming down gradually, just did 1st followup LDDS TEST in which v et stated today that Jadas cushings is properly controlled with 1cap. 60mg . Trilostane. Was SUPPOSED to do curve today, except today was 1st day since diagnosis that Jada didnt eat all breakfast.

I am hoping that you got the name of the test wrong because the LDDS test is only done to diagnose cushings - there is no follow up done. That test is called the ACTH test. It's two hours long vs 8 hrs for the LDDS. ACTH test is done to tell you how much cortisol a dog is producing. The goal of treating cushings is to reduce it but not to the point where it is too low. The test should have 2 numbers on it.

Please find out whether an acth test was done and even though your vet said it is controlled we need to see what that number is because since your dog is not eating and has vomited after taking this dosage it makes me suspect the dose is too high. Dogs can get critically ill so please let us know.

We understand finances are tight when dealing with cushings and want to make sure your dog actually has it and that the dose is right. If not you will end up wasting money on tests and drugs you don't need. Hang in there and we'll help as best we can! Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Jada,:)

I am so glad you found us. Others will be dropping in shortly to say hello and welcome also.
You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushings angels to help answer your questions and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. The more they know, the more they will be able help you and Jada. So Carla, Please keep talking to us and we'll do all we can to help you.

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[doxiesrock912]

What a way to start out! I'm fairly new so I'll leave the advice to the experts. Please know that the people on here helped me immensely!!! It is important that you find a qualified IMS specialist as most GP vets don't know enough about Cushings and complex cases.

With proper help, these conditions are maneagable.

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

hello everyone and thank you for the warm welcomes, let me first start off by saying this is very hard for me to type these responses since I don't have a computer and my phone keeps breaking up on me... will have to get her test results from the doctor, but the second vet that I mentioned earlier wanted to do a second LDDS TEST to check her values to see if she's on the appropriate dose for trilostane. Shes one 1 capsule SID, and dr. call back after test results came in this past week, and doctor said that her values are controlled on one capsule once a day. hopefully this is good news, does this mean that we caught her Cushings in the early stages??? but please note this is the same doctor that did not think to manage her diabetes and started her on trilostane without managing diabetes. I have to go to this vet bc cheap tests.(@cost prices). Everywhere else tests r $500. Here $175, another thing that bugs me though is that they don't seem to care whether it's adrenal or pituitary, vet said: bc of her age, u spend $$$$ to find out but for what??? Too risky for sx. I agree on that but still wanna kno. I have been a vet tech for 12 yrs, but now disabled, and never really studied cushings dz this thoroughly b4.

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Also need some input on what to feed my lovey when she gets stubborn (like the past 2mornings) where it took all kinds of wet foods mixed with her om dry. She has a horribly sensitive stomach so have to be careful with certain foods. Could not even do a curve yesterday bc of inappetance, luckily she ate 90% this am.after creative thinking on my part. Loose stools but able to get full insulin dose and trilostane this am...
Bg curve done today q 2hrs. Starting at 8am: 451, 376, 305, 300, 260, 393, 337. Lowest curve to date, on 21 units currently. Sorry i kno this is the cushings site, but dumb internet on phone acting up so i cant access that site.

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

hello everyone and thank you for the warm welcomes, let me first start off by saying this is very hard for me to type these responses since I don't have a computer and my phone keeps breaking up on me... will have to get her test results from the doctor, but the second vet that I mentioned earlier wanted to do a second LDDS TEST to check her values to see if she's on the appropriate dose for trilostane. Shes one 1 capsule SID, and dr. call back after test results came in this past week, and doctor said that her values are controlled on one capsule once a day. hopefully this is good news, does this mean that we caught her Cushings in the early stages??? but please note this is the same doctor that did not think to manage her diabetes and started her on trilostane without managing diabetes. I have to go to this vet bc cheap tests.(@cost prices). Everywhere else tests r $500. Here $175, another thing that bugs me though is that they don't seem to care whether it's adrenal or pituitary, vet said: bc of her age, u spend $$$$ to find out but for what??? Too risky for sx. I agree on that but still wanna kno. I have been a vet tech for 12 yrs, but now disabled, and never really studied cushings dz this thoroughly b4.

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

PI agree, its CRAZY down here trying to find a good and knowledgable vet, orginally from GA and all my friends are vets up there. They r the ones that told me how wrong these vets have been. Each dvm down here have contradicted each other and the only GOOD advice is from my people in Ga and an internist here. But internist is really costly, need to find a GREAT vet here that I can depend on and that is 24/7 (for emergency purposes) . Hopefully, since $ is REALLY tight with us (have 4 dogs, 3 stray cats I take care of) a good 24/7 vet will make payment plans in case of an emergency, like when her bg suddenly drops when her cushings is under control.... What do I do?!?!? Cant do care credit or those options, am really scared any day I have to rush her to vet and they turn me away due to $$$. Since working in thus field, I saw ut hsppen all the time. Very hard to find a vet that cares for the pet and not for the $$$... Any suggestions???

[Harley PoMMom]

will have to get her test results from the doctor, but the second vet that I mentioned earlier wanted to do a second LDDS TEST to check her values to see if she's on the appropriate dose for trilostane. Shes one 1 capsule SID, and dr. call back after test results came in this past week, and doctor said that her values are controlled on one capsule once a day.

I am quite concerned because a LDDS test is not used to monitor a dog that is taking medication for Cushing's. An ACTH stimulation test is performed on a dog to find out if the dosage of Trilostane/Vetoryl is adequate. Could you please post the results you received back from the vet?

Also the timing of the ACTH stimulation test is crucial for the test to be accurate. Did the vet do an ACTH stim test? Was it done 4-6 hours after the morning dose of Trilostane/Vetoryl was given? And did the vet tell you that Trilostane/Vetoryl has to given with food to be properly absorbed?

Could you tell us how much Jada weighs?



hopefully this is good news, does this mean that we caught her Cushings in the early stages??? but please note this is the same doctor that did not think to manage her diabetes and started her on trilostane without managing diabetes. I have to go to this vet bc cheap tests.(@cost prices). Everywhere else tests r $500. Here $175, another thing that bugs me though is that they don't seem to care whether it's adrenal or pituitary, vet said: bc of her age, u spend $$$$ to find out but for what??? Too risky for sx. I agree on that but still wanna kno. I have been a vet tech for 12 yrs, but now disabled, and never really studied cushings dz this thoroughly b4.

Is Jada's diabetes now under control? I am sorry for all of these additional questions but the more information we know about Jada the better we will be able to provide you with the appropriate feedback for your girl.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Jada is 76# and the test was another ldds test done again, they do not perform acth stim tests there... Costly to them... The reason they did another ldds test was to assess Jadas Cortisol levels on her current dose if Trilostane, and vet called and stated that shes on correct dosing, but y??? Her weight suggests 1cap bid, is it bc it was caught early?

[Harley PoMMom]

Only an ACTH stimulation test can accurately show if the dosage of Trilostane is correct. Please find a vet that can perform an ACTH stim test. From the ACVIM website (in our Resource Thread) I located three IMS':

Lauderdale Veterinary Specialists 3217 NW 10th Terrace (Suites 302-306) Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33309 phone # 954-641-1100 (Dr Allison Cannon)
Palm Beach Veterinary Specialists 3884 Forest Hill Boulevard West Palm Beach, FL 33406 phone # 561-434-5700 (Dr Cory Brown)
Veterinary Specialty Hospital of Palm Beach Gardens 4019 Hood Rd Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 Phone: 561-625-9995 (Dr Jorg Bucheler)


Are any of these close to you?

[Squirt's Mom]

Honey, you are wasting that hard to come by money having the LDDS done to monitor the dose - the LDDS cannot do that. The LDDS is a suppression test and the ACTH is stimulation test - two different things. I truly do understand the financial end of this - I am also on disability - but using the LDDS to monitor treatment is risky for Jada. Your vet needs to be much more concerned with proper protocol in using this very powerful drug than with their expense! :eek: This is irresponsible on their end in my book. ;)

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

PLEASE ANYONE WHO CAN GIVE ME SOME ADVICE B4 JADA'S VET APPT TOMORROW MORNING???!!!?

Hello fellow Cush parents & thanks for having me on here...Started on this site a yr ago but time and being without a computer makes writing on this hard.... Ok, BASIC INFO JADA is an 11 yr old Am Stafford who is currently CUSHINOID, DIABETIC, HYPOTHYROID, AND MOSTLY BLIND. Being a 15 yr + vet tech now legally disabled, I have experience in the field but when it comes to my baby, all sanity goes out window. She's tried Vetoryl 3x in the past yr. She will take the Vetoryl well for about 14 days THEN she stops eating. Even put her on ZOFRAN to help gain her appetite back- NO IMPROVEMENT. so d/c Vetoryl per vets. Selegiline did nothing as multiple vets have determined pituitary vs adrenal. No U/S done. $ is a BIG ISSUE SINCE I'M DISABLED& HAVE 2 OTHER DOGS (SENIORS WHO HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES) PLUS MOMS DOG AND STRAY CATS THAT WERE DUMPED. I WILL DO ANYTHING FOR JADA, and have taken her to specialists, various vets who do not know much about Cushings and EVERY SINGLE VET CONDRADICTS THE OTHER as we well know Cushings is a broad disease.
My question is about LYSODREN. If Trilostane messed up her tummy, won't Lysodren be more upsetting to her body? Side effects are worse and if she stops eating, she can't get insulin. I know this forum is only Cushings but please bear with me.... PLEASE!!!!!! She's currently NOT being treated for her Cushings except for Cushex Drops. Diabetes is not managed, obviously, and her BGs recently have been dropping low, anyone know why? Had her 1st hypoglycemic crash without a cause ( vomiting usually started crash previously) this time I noticed after a vet trip for Fruitosamine test. Its hot as Hell in WPB, FLA and stress I guess made it happen. My current vet seems to know lol And doesn't explain anything to me that sinks in.I know most will day... "find a new vet" .... but I'm desperately searching as we speak. Have 4th opinion tomorrow with vet next door to me. But not knowing the areas vets personally & don't have $ to get paying for consultations with new vets.
Here's sum test results- ACTH STIM PRE:6.5 / POST: 28 (WHILE ON SELEGILINE) keep in mind I can't do ACTH as much as I'd like to bc of cost. Fruitosamine Level was around 420. Thyriod comp is WNL. Her FT4ED TEST IS .02 with reference range is .05-.42 , LDDS TEST WAS 4hr post= 2ug/dl, 8 hr post= 5 ug/dl which proved her positive for Cushings in 2013. But can u guys inform me with EVERYTHING U KNOW ABOUT PROS /CONS WITH LYSODREN. (My only option left btw). PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANY ADVICE WILL DEFINITELY HELP. Her symptoms are almost constant panting, alopecia, skin issues, good appetite for most part at pm feeding but ever since restarting Vetoryl for 3rd time a couple weeks ago for 4 days before her inappetance started up again, her am appetite is sometimes good but turns her nose up to even HILL'S Metabolic canned food (she usually LOVES) half the time. Not overweight as she was (70.1# now) but think I'm feeding her incorrect amts of her Hills Metabolic dry+ wet in pm and just 1 can wet in am with chicken breast. My current vet hasn't helped me so much with what I SHOULD BE feeding. I don't really trust a dr that doesn't even get down and love and touch on my Jada BUT his bloodwork tests are cheaper for me, which is generous of him....

[labblab]

Hi Carla and welcome back!! I only have a moment to post, but wanted to tell you I'm glad you were able to log in again ;), and also that I have added your new post to your original thread about Jada. This way, all her information and history will be consolidated in one spot.

One quick question: how much does Jada currently weigh, what dose of Vetoryl were you giving, and do you have the results of any monitoring ACTH tests performed while she was taking the medication?

Thanks in advance for this info. :)
Marianne

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

[QUOTE=MyBabyJadaKiss;176811]PLEASE ANYONE WHO CAN GIVE ME SOME ADVICE B4 JADA'S VET APPT TOMORROW MORNING???!!!?

Hello fellow Cush parents & thanks for having me on here...Started on this site a yr ago but time and being without a computer makes writing on this hard.... Ok, BASIC INFO JADA is an 11 yr old Am Stafford who is currently CUSHINOID, DIABETIC, HYPOTHYROID, AND MOSTLY BLIND. Being a 15 yr + vet tech now legally disabled, I have experience in the field but when it comes to my baby, all sanity goes out window. She's tried Vetoryl 3x in the past yr. She will take the Vetoryl well for about 14 days THEN she stops eating. Even put her on ZOFRAN to help gain her appetite back- NO IMPROVEMENT. so d/c Vetoryl per vets. Selegiline did nothing as multiple vets have determined pituitary vs adrenal. No U/S done. $ is a BIG ISSUE SINCE I'M DISABLED& HAVE 2 OTHER DOGS (SENIORS WHO HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES) PLUS MOMS DOG AND STRAY CATS THAT WERE DUMPED. I WILL DO ANYTHING FOR JADA, and have taken her to specialists, various vets who do not know much about Cushings and EVERY SINGLE VET CONDRADICTS THE OTHER as we well know Cushings is a broad disease.
My question is about LYSODREN. If Trilostane messed up her tummy, won't Lysodren be more upsetting to her body? Side effects are worse and if she stops eating, she can't get insulin. I know this forum is only Cushings but please bear with me.... PLEASE!!!!!! She's currently NOT being treated for her Cushings except for Cushex Drops. Diabetes is not managed, obviously, and her BGs recently have been dropping low, anyone know why? Had her 1st hypoglycemic crash without a cause ( vomiting usually started crash previously) this time I noticed after a vet trip for Fruitosamine test. Its hot as Hell in WPB, FLA and stress I guess made it happen. My current vet seems to know lol And doesn't explain anything to me that sinks in.I know most will day... "find a new vet" .... but I'm desperately searching as we speak. Have 4th opinion tomorrow with vet next door to me. But not knowing the areas vets personally & don't have $ to get paying for consultations with new vets.
Here's sum test results- ACTH STIM PRE:6.5 / POST: 28 (WHILE ON SELEGILINE) keep in mind I can't do ACTH as much as I'd like to bc of cost. Fruitosamine Level was around 420. Thyriod comp is WNL. Her FT4ED TEST IS .02 with reference range is .05-.42 , LDDS TEST WAS 4hr post= 2ug/dl, 8 hr post= 5 ug/dl which proved her positive for Cushings in 2013. But can u guys inform me with EVERYTHING U KNOW ABOUT PROS /CONS WITH LYSODREN. (My only option left btw). PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANY ADVICE WILL DEFINITELY HELP. Her symptoms are almost constant panting, alopecia, skin issues, good appetite for most part at pm feeding but ever since restarting Vetoryl for 3rd time a couple weeks ago for 4 days before her inappetance started up again, her am appetite is sometimes good but turns her nose up to even HILL'S Metabolic canned food (she usually LOVES) half the time. Not overweight as she was (70.1# now) but think I'm feeding her incorrect amts of her Hills Metabolic dry+ wet in pm and just 1 can wet in am with chicken breast. My current vet hasn't helped me so much with what I SHOULD BE feeding. I don't really trust a dr that doesn't even get down and love and touch on my Jada BUT his bloodwork tests are cheaper for me, which is generous of him....

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Hello LABBLAB, THANK U FOR RESPONDING BACK. DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND ALL THE FUNCTIONS LOCATED ON PAGE & SINCE WEIGHING ON A VERY OLD SMALL CELL, ITS HARD TO WRITE, READ AND SEE. SHES ~70.1# and she was only the LOWEST dose of Vetoryl for her 30 mg SID in am after breakfast. Like I said n an earlier posting, they did ACTH while she was on Selegiline. Was on that med for over a yr. I can't continue to do ACTH tests frequently bc of cost of test. I did create a GO FUND ME ACCT which is hard for me to reach out for help but after a full day of typing her story and pics, I found out that I can only send it to fam and friends on fb. I don't have many ACTUAL FRIENDS and all my family is dead. So no one shares or is willing to help with that but had to work off a bill at a vet clinic so Jada could get that test. I will do anything for Jada as she IS my SOULMATE and best friend but hate seeing her panting so much. I just need help, no more tears I can shed, trying to b POSITIVE for her. Just confused, frustrated and SCARED.

[labblab]

Hi again, Carla. Gosh, I am sorry you are having such a hard time right now. One thing that stands out to me, though, is that Jada's blood glucose seems to be falling too low right now. I would think it would be most important to get that straightened out before even considering starting Lysodren. I have to wonder whether the BG crashing may actually be the cause of her vomiting after being given the Vetoryl. The Vetoryl may be pushing her glucose even lower on those days that she has taken the drug? It is usually the reverse dynamic that prompts the introduction of Cushing's meds with diabetic dogs -- when glucose levels are uncontrollably high even on large doses of insulin. I strongly encourage you to also join our sister forum that deals with canine diabetes: k9diabetes.com/forum. I really think you need to try to get the glucose levels stabilized before moving onward, because Lysodren will affect glucose/insulin levels, too.

The thing is, there really is no way around the expensive ACTH testing if you start in with Lysodren. Since the drug physically erodes the tissue of the adrenal cortex, for safety's sake, you have to know exactly what the effect is on adrenal function. So before you start incurring that cost and effort, I'm hoping that you may be able to first get some knowledgeable advice re: Jada's diabetic management in the face of these crashes.

Marianne

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Hi Marianne, I'm a major jinx ( all my life) so when I discuss Jadas medical condition, it worsens her. Knock on wood xxx. But on Vetoryl she never committed but just stopped eating. Her by fluctuates bc it can't b regulated until Cushings is. Within past week her BG is high and normally she's hungry hungry hippocampus but it's now refusing to eat and only time that's ever happened has been bc of Vetoryl. She hadn't been on Vetoryl in weeks. Water intake is a lot higher than ever before, appetite decreased, loose stools (could b bc I'm offering differ foods to get her to eat, could be Cushings related. This am she ate a tiny bit of chicken but refused rest of wet food. Tried ID, NF, Metabolic,etc. Nada but took her BG and it was high 400s, so I gave her 15 units vs "normal " 23u. She stayed stable during day, then just now offered her dry Metabolic with I'd mixed (normally likes) but nada. So offered 1 can of Metabolic. Ate well. BG after eating was 518 so 23 units. Can't stabilize her insulin without managing Cushings. My only option left is Lysodren, have internist appt June 8 ( vet on vaca, just my luck) her pu/pd symptoms are worse as well as panting and loose stools are a lil concerning. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO UNTIL 8TH!!!! NO EXTRA$ FOR unknowing gp's. I'm scared, very very very scared. I can't get on diabetes website for sum reason. I have no one in my life to talk to about this. I'm alone in this soo please try and help me, even if I bring up diabetes, I know it's not ur specialty but ur all I got. I'm unstable- reason I'm disabled mostly- and Jada is my SOULMATE and BEST FRIEND I'VE EVVVEEERRR HAD. I'm crying out for help. Please...

[labblab]

What problem have you had registering for the diabetes site? It is set up exactly like ours, so any difficulty you are having registering with them can be solved. They are really the ones who can offer you guidance re: diabetic issues such as diet, types of insulin, etc. So can you tell us more about your registration problems? Until you get in to see the internist next Monday, I'm afraid you will be treading water re: the Cushing's. But the folks on k9diabetes can talk to you about that side of things immediately.

Marianne

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

So, I took JADA to her 2nd Vet Specialist for a 3rd opinion and was given MORE options that I have never heard of to try...... LIGNANS AND MELATONIN!!!!!!! RESEARCH THESE PRODUCTS AND IF YOUR DOG IS IN EARLY STAGES OF CUSHINGS, THIS COULD BE A MIRACLE COMBO! THERE ARE SDG AND HMR LIGNANS, I CHOSE THE HMR BC THEY ABSORB FASTER (CHEAP TOO) AND WHEN COMBINED WITH MELATONIN CAN DRASTICALLY IMPROVE SYMPTOMS AND LOWER CORTISOL LEVELS !!!!!! HAD ANYONE HEARD OF THIS OR TRIED IT ?! I JUST STARTED COMBO AFTER ORDERING FROM AMAZON. RESEARCH IF U HAVEN'T BUT IF U HAVE, PLEASER COMMENT!!!!!!!

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Oh and Marianne, still have issues getting into diabetes site. For some reason after being told to wait a day to be accepted, I got another email redirecting me to site, I think, but highlighted part won't take me anywhere. Doesn't work. I'm glad ur site helped me BC they didn't after I emailed them to help me..... Guess I won't get to use them.

[molly muffin]

That is strange as the admin at the diabetes site is very good.


Lignans and melatonin is the recommended treatment by the university of Tennessee for atypical Cushing's. This is when the cortisol levels are normal but at least two of the sex hormones are elevated. Many of us at one time or another have used this treatment.

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

IM DESPERATE HERE!!!!!!!!
ANYONE, EVERYONE-PLEASE HELP JADA!!!
She has Cushing's, Diabetes, and Hypothyroidism and have tried Selegiline ( doesn't work for her), Trilostane ( makes her more sick and becomes inappetant, messes up her stomach and has diarrhea, etc. Tried 3x on Trilostane). Basically, Trilostane sent JADA to ER with HORRIBLE symptoms and knowing that Trilostane is SAFER and LESS "AGGRESSIVE" on a normal dog's stomach than its counterpart Lysodren (which multiple vets, including specialists, did that they wouldn't recommend putting her on Lysodren because of her sensitive stomach.
I'M OUT OF OPTIONS HERE!!!! Can't regulate ANY of her conditions because of this problem and she just had a hypoglycemic scare 2 days ago. Her Cushing's is pushing her BG high up and will only get worse!!!!

PLEASE, ANYONE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!!! HELP US!!!!!!!
ANY recommendations will HELP!
**Have tried some holistic meds such as Cushex Drops- vets I've spoke with said it's crap- not really sure if it made a difference but still have 3 bottles of***:confused::confused:

[My sweet Ginger]

Sorry, I wasn't aware of the previous posts. :o

[Squirt's Mom]

If her cortisol is elevated, only Vetoryl or Lysodren is going to control it unfortunately. It makes me so very angry when vets scare people about Lysodren. Vetoryl has the exact SAME risks as Lysodren, up to and including death. The only thing that makes it seem safer than Lyso is the short life in the body. Vetoryl is the new kid on the block in treatment and we still do not know how it works or what all it is doing to the body while it controls the cortisol - protocols have change a lot with Vetoryl since it was released. Lysodren has been around a long time and we do know how it works. Lysodren is typically less expensive to use because it usually requires fewer ACTH testing because the dose does not change frequently like it dose with Vetoryl; fewer ACTHs means less stress on the dog, too. Lysodren does not have to be given every day once the pup is on maintenance while Vetoryl is given 1-2 times a day. To my mind, there are many more benefits to Lysodren than Vetoryl - tho I am in the minority with that thinking. ;)

Based on your early posts in 2013, the vet was not using Vetoryl correctly. He was testing via the LDDS which is useless once treatment has started. The ACTH is what must be used to monitor treatment. So based on that info alone, we don't really know how your baby was doing on Vetoryl since it was never correctly monitored at that time. I did not read the full thread to see if they got on board at some point or if you found another vet who had some experience with this disease and the drug being given.

Were you able to get on the diabetes forum and talk to them about the diabetes?

[Harley PoMMom]

Leslie is right, Vetoryl is no safer than Lysodren, they both have the potential for ill effects if the proper protocols are not followed.

Getting the diabetes under control is paramount and the folks at the k9diabetes forum can help with that, let us know if you are still having trouble registering there.

Hugs, Lori

[MyBabyJadaKiss]

Am on the diabetes forum but can't get her diabetes regulated until Cushing's is regulated so that won't happen. 'Catch 22' as they say... Anyway, if Trilostane made her end up in ER, which was a big financial strain on me, don't u think that Lysodren will be just abrasive to her sensitive stomach? I've spoken to over 6 different vets (4 being internal specialists) which all say the same thing. Since the older med ie Lysodren is different than Trilostane meaning that Lysodren actually kills or "shaves" the cells completelywhere they cannot regenerate so Prednisone needs to be on hand to combat the patient from going Addisonian. Whereas, Trilostane isn't as "harsh" to the cells and if given too much, u take the patient off the med and the cells regenerate. They aren't killed of like Lysodren. See, THAT'S what scares me, the fact that Lysodren is that potent to ACTUALLY kill the cells-wouldn't that be more intense on her stomach????
After speaking to all of these specialists and vets, it seems the only consenus of them is that they wouldn't recommend putting JADA on Lysodren as she got really sick from Trilostane. But while there, I had an abdominal ultrasound done on her and the traveling vet that did procedure did that by the look of the u/s, he wouldn't ever think that the patient (Jada) was even Cushiniod!?!? Her adrenal glands were perfect and even if just pituitary-dependant tumor, the arsenals should STILL show signs of Cushing's, so I'm just plain CONFUSED HERE!?!
She just had a close call with hypoglycemic crash 5 days ago and nothing can be regulated , so Im asking if anyone knows of alternate medications ie HOLLISTIC OR OTHERWISE THAT COULD HELP?!? AM EXTREMELY DESPERATE AND AM WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING!!!!!!!!

PLEASE, I BEG OF U ALL, ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE HELPFUL!
THANK U.

[molly muffin]

Have they tried the fast release insulin with her in combination with regular insulin?

I know very little about diabetes, but know that some dogs that have had trouble getting regulated have used that method.

Now when it comes to trilostane, forget the LDDS, you need to be doing ACTH teting and it has to be very carefully done. Since the vet was doing LDDS testing, it was very easy for her to be overdosed on the trilostane. Some dogs need smaller amounts and some need larger, but without the ACTH you'll never know what dose she would need.
I agree actually that is is rare for a cushing dog to have normal liver and adrenals show up on an ultrasound.

[labblab]

Hi again, Carla, and gosh I am sorry you are still having such problems. Can you tell us what your username is over on the diabetes forum? I just now tried to read up on their advice to you re: the insulin control, but couldn't find you. In trying to help you sort things out about the Cushing's, it will help us a lot if we can review Jada's diabetes treatment history over there.

This is something that is confusing to me: you are writing again about a hypoglycemic crisis with Jada, but as I said earlier, that is the opposite of what is the typical problem with diabetic Cushpups. Usually their blood sugars are running very high and just cannot be brought down unless the high cortisol level is also controlled. In combination with the ultrasound report, I am wondering about the accuracy of the Cushing's diagnosis in the first place. Which serious problem does Jada have more often -- uncontrolled high glucose levels or low hypoglycemic crashes? And what is your username over there on the diabetes forum?

Marianne

[labblab]

Trilostane ( makes her more sick and becomes inappetant, messes up her stomach and has diarrhea, etc. Tried 3x on Trilostane). Basically, Trilostane sent JADA to ER with HORRIBLE symptoms
I am still trying to problem-solve a little bit more. When Jada ended up in the ER, can you tell us more specifically what the vets said had gone wrong? Was her cortiol level too low? How about her glucose level? Were her electrolytes normal or out of whack (specifically sodium and potassium levels)? Or was she just having GI issues even though her cortisol, glucose level and labwork was OK? What dose of trilostane was she taking each of the three times she was on it? (I think you had said she started out on 60 mg. and at one time went down to 30 mg.).

I ask these questions because whether or not Lysodren would be a good alternative depends, I think, on exactly what problems were caused by the trilostane. If her cortisol level had been driven too low or her electrolytes were out of whack, it may just be the case that the dose of trilostane she was taking was too high for her and she was suffering the side effects of overdose. If the ER visit was necessitated by a crash in her blood glucose, then it may yet be an issue of correctly coordinating her insulin with the trilostane. If the trilostane dose was lowered, she might do just fine. If, however, her cortisol and electrolytes were in good range but the trilostane was literally making her feel sick (GI upset, etc.), then it's true that she might better tolerate a different cortisol-lowering drug. So if you can tell us more about the lab results from the ER visit, that would be very helpful, too.

Marianne

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

It's hard to regulate diabetes when cushings is unregulated but it sounds like you are testing her blood sugar at home which is a huge huge help

and the fact that you are adjusting insulin when she won't eat is exactly the right thing to do

what happened when she had her hypoglycemic crashes? food, insulin, cush meds?

We had a hypothyroid dog on the diabetes forum who had a horrible time getting regulated until his thryoid did. So how is that going? Decker would do well on a dose of insulin for about a week and then it wouldn't really work anymore.

Like Leslie & Marianne said though, If Jada's sugar is going too low, that is the opposite problem of most cushings dogs. High cortisol makes the need for insulin greater usually.

Keep trying at the diabetes forum. Judi