Poor Pitiful Pia - Pia has gone to heaven [Archive] - Page 2 - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

knitbunnie

07-15-2013, 11:26 PM

What a day! We headed out at 7 am for a 10 am appt. at Davis. Once there, they arranged for some extra vet time due to Pia's additional problems, and of course, some additional tests. She got her ACTH stim test, a urinalysis, urine culture, a snap cpl, a micro exam of a sample from the two plaques, and a blood panel to check for electrolytes and kidney and liver function. I asked (begged?!?) them to send us home with some antibiotics rather than waiting for the urine tests. Pia came home with Clavamox for the probable UTI. Then did the snap cpl to be sure her inappetence isn't from pancreatitis, and Pia got some mirtazapine for an appetite stimulant. I hope it works. For the odd little plaques (they look sort of like two small areas of psoriasis), they gave us antibacterial/antifungal wipes.

The vet was, once again, not our regular vet, but it was the one who saw Pia when our vet was on vacation, so she's becoming more familiar with Pia. An interesting aside was that she did a study on compounding pharmacies and trilostane, and when I mentioned Diamondback, she quietly told me that they were quite good (like you all didn't already know that). She also said that in her study of compounded trilostane from various pharmacies they found that the strength ranged from 100% to 150% of what it was supposed to be. Until we get Pia stabilized I've decided to stick with branded Vetoryl, but once we have a steadily good result, I'd like to switch to compounded. I agreed to do a little extra testing when we make the switch and she was pretty ok with that, especially if I use Diamondback.

I had a big surprise :eek: when I got home at about 4:30 pm. Our old, blind Maggie was home alone because my neighbor who usually comes to take her out broke her leg last week, and there's just no one else to ask to do it. My husband had to go to Wyoming for work, so he definitely couldn't take Maggie out, either. I'm not sure if she's the smartest or the dumbest old, blind dog in the world because she had to go #2 so (this is beyond belief!) she went into the laundry room and jumped into a basket half full of dirty towels and made #2 in the basket. Of course, she stepped in it, smoosh it around, and make a complete mess. I still can't believe she managed to find the basket and jump into it. She was a complete wreck when I got home, nervous and panting and so darned upset with herself. I gave her a hug and shouted (she's nearly deaf) that I loved her. I got a sweet puppy kiss in return.

doxiesrock912

07-15-2013, 11:36 PM

I'm sorry Bonnie, but Maggie's "present" made me laugh :)
At least they were dirty towels.

Wow! Lot's of vet time for Pia today. Hoping that all of those tests bring good outcomes.

goldengirl88

07-16-2013, 08:16 AM

Bonnie:
I loved your story about you baby going in the basket. They are a lot smarter than we think. What a mess you had too clean! I was wondering about you switching brands of Trilostane. If you are using Vetoryl and you dog is controlled well now, why would you switch? I am just wondering, because when things are going well for Tipper the last thing I want to do is rock the boat. You will have to leave that basket out with pee pads in it the next time you go somewhere and see if it works!! Blessings
Patti

molly muffin

07-16-2013, 08:19 AM

Maggie is a smart one. She might be blind but that doesn't seem to be stopping her. Which is awesome by the way. :) I'm sure she felt horrid.

Hope the antibiotics clear up the UTI and maybe the appetite stimulant will help with the food. It would be great to see her cortisol controlled and see if that was affecting the appetite.

Yes, several members here use Diamondback with good results.

hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

knitbunnie

07-16-2013, 03:15 PM

Bonnie:
I was wondering about you switching brands of Trilostane. If you are using Vetoryl and you dog is controlled well now, why would you switch?
Patti

If only she was well controlled! She drinks and pees and pees and drinks, she lost another 0.7 pounds, and she's still weak and shaky, so we're not at the right time and place to switch her to generic/compounded trilostane.

It's purely economics for me to switch to compounded if I can get good results. I just got 60 tabs of 10 mg Vetoryl from Davis and it was $133.50. I can get 60 - 9 mg tabs of trilostane or 11 mg tabs from Diamondback for $31.50. Their price for 60 caps of Vetoryl is $97.34, so I got a prescription from Davis so I can get it from them. This has all been incredibly expensive and stressful. My other dog is currently on about $100 a month of medication - Vetmedin and benazapril for her heart, and phenobarbitol for her seizures, so for me to have to spend another $100+ on top of all the vet bills is becoming beyond difficult. If I can get the same results with compounded trilostane, I will definitely switch. If I try it and my ACTH stim tests show a significant difference I will definitely switch back to branded Vetoryl and eat a lot of Ramen noodles. For now, we're using the branded drug, but if we can switch her to the generic, it will be a big help.

Budsters Mom

07-16-2013, 05:17 PM

I am so sorry Bonnie. Handling our baby's needs is stressful enough. Yes, it is all so expensive, and you have two! I got Buddy's Trilo from Diamondback and was very happy with their pricing and service. I will not hesitate to use them again, if need be. Buddy's cortisol level was stable on their compounded Trilo. His undoing was the Macro-tumor, not uncontrolled cortisol. Big hugs to you and your precious fur babies.

molly muffin

07-16-2013, 06:26 PM

Wow, two you're buying meds and tests and what not for. That is spendy. One is spendy, two is Really getting up there. I can see why you'd go compounded if it works for Pia.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

07-16-2013, 06:46 PM

I am confused, frustrated, dismayed! I just got a call from Davis regarding Pia's test results. Her ACTH stim test was 2.1 pre and 2.9 post, so they're cutting her dose in half. Which means we're going to have to go to Diamondback for compounding since she was on 10 mg BID and now is to be on 5 mg BID. Does anyone know if I can send my current 58 caps of Vetoryl to them to be recompounded into 5 mg doses? Davis is contacting them to get me some 5 mg caps right away, but if I can get my current caps redosed in the future, it would be great.

Other lab results - yes - her UA showed RBCs and WBCs, and the culture is growing bacteria. Pia's UTI symptoms are much better today, so the Clavamox is doing its job. Her protein in her bloodwork is low so they're going to do a B12 and folate test. Her albumin is borderline low, too. Her spec cpl is 460 so she's got some pancreatitis. They said to not give her any more of the mirtazapine appetite stimulant, and they're going to send us some anti-nausea medication. I already have ondansetron for her which did absolutely nothing, but this time they're sending something else, and I forgot to write down the name.

I am at a loss as to what to do next. If this doesn't work I may have to take her to a witch doctor or something!

labblab

07-16-2013, 07:12 PM

Bonnie, can you remind us as to Pia's dosing history and previous ACTH monitoring result? I believe her initial post-ACTH was around 5 or something like that, but I can't remember the timing or exact numbers. Did you change her dose after that first test, or have you remained on the same dose throughout? And how long has she been taking the trilostane altogether?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't understand why Davis wants to cut her dose so severely if she has now been taking this same dose for around a month or so. You don't want her to continue to drop a whole lot lower, but her current ACTH result is right within Dechra's desired therapeutic range -- the "post" result is right in the middle, in fact. So to drop her dosage so dramatically -- I'm not sure I understand that, because you also don't want her cortisol to go a whole lot higher. :confused:

And no, unfortunately, I don't think Diamondback will take your unused Vetoryl back to repackage. If you can find a local compounding pharmacy, they might be willing to do that for you. But if not, that is a lot of unused capsules to have on hand. If Davis truly wants you to make that much of a dosing increase, you might ask them if you can just go ahead and dose Pia once daily at 10 mg. until the Vetoryl capsules are used up.

But first and foremost, I'm trying to figure out why they want to make such a big dosing change right now. So Pia's dosing and testing history will help.

Marianne

knitbunnie

07-16-2013, 09:09 PM

Hi Marianne - Pia has been on 10 mg BID of Vetoryl since June 14th. They're supposed to call back about something else tomorrow, so I will ask about it after refreshing myself on the Dechra guidelines.

Her first results were:

Cortisol Pretest - 4.4
Cortisol 1 hour - 5.3

I asked about using the 10 mg caps once daily and the girl sort of gave me a hard time about it and said it has to be given twice a day. I reminded the vet tech (no, I didn't speak with the vet) that it was originally a once a day medication and that Davis was the place that initiated the twice-a-day routine.

Frustration does not begin to express how I feel. I've been force-feeding Pia 6 ounces of low-fat dog food three times a day, and she hates me for it. I don't know if I should just let her go and see if she eats on her own or not. I am completely afraid to do that.

I know the spec cpl shows pancreatitis, but she's not vomiting or having diarrhea. She's not hungry and she's indifferent to life. She's drinking, drinking, drinking (as usual) and she absolutely refuses to eat the cans of lowfat prescription dog food. After an arduous day at Davis yesterday, I stopped at Burger King and got a plain double cheeseburger. She seemed interested, and she ate the whole darned thing. I went back through the drive-in window and got another for myself. I don't know if I should just let her eat whatever she wants, which I haven't been doing except for that cheeseburger, or continue to force feed her or do nothing and see what happens.

Advice on any and all things is welcome.

labblab

07-16-2013, 10:50 PM

frijole

07-16-2013, 10:53 PM

I like Marianne's idea of compromising at 25% decrease... I too am stumped. Please share what you find out. If you were able to go this route you could at least use the meds you just purchased too. I wish I could be more helpful but I am cheering Pia on! Kim

labblab

07-16-2013, 11:07 PM

Just wanted to add that if this wasn't UC Davis, I'd be wondering whether your vet was aware that the therapeutic ACTH range for a dog being treated with trilo is lower than the "normal" range for a non-Cushpup. :o

Seriously, though, I believe I'd ask them exactly what numbers they are shooting for in Pia's case. Maybe they are wanting her cortisol to run higher for reasons that are not obvious to us.

Marianne

knitbunnie

07-17-2013, 12:31 AM

Well, I can understand pulling back on the dosage a bit (especially in view of Pia's poor appetite), but it still seems to me that a 50% decrease is excessive. Dechra's ideal post-ACTH range is between 1.45 - 5.4 ug/dl, so Pia is right in the middle of that range. I do get it that she has dropped during these past couple of weeks and you don't want her to keep on dropping. But heck, you might even call Dechra and talk to one of their technical reps just to see what they would recommend. Depending on whether they agree that such a large decrease is warranted, maybe an option to discuss with Davis would be to stick with the 10 mg. of Vetoryl in the morning (until they're used up) and add a compounded 5 mg. in the evening. That would represent a 25% dosing decrease, but Pia would still be getting some medication twice daily.

The appetite issue is surely a sticky wicket. I apologize for not remembering whether you've tried different foods to no avail. Maybe she'd be more interested in a regular commercial food that maintains a similar nutritional profile to the Rx food but seems tastier to her. Ever since my Peg was troubled with acute pancreatitis the summer before last, I've stuck with lowfat food. It is hard to find decent quality, lowfat commercial food but there is some out there. If you're interested, I can give you a link that may help you track something down to try.

Marianne

I'll give Dechra a call tomorrow. I remember now reading that other people have called them from the group in the past. My mind is so fried! I will definitely question Davis on what they consider an ACTH therapeutic range in a Cushpup. What on earth would I do without this group? Things are difficult as is, but without all of you, it would be so, so much worse.

As far as food, this has been going on for longer than Pia has been on Vetoryl. It's been a struggle since April. I've tried everything I can think of - chicken with rice, chicken with oatmeal, beef with rice, beef with oatmeal, plain chicken, plain ground beef, I've scoured the pet shop shelves for anything and everything I can find that's lowfat in cans - Taste of the Wild, Fromm's, Castor and Pollux, Paul Newman's, Organix, Natural Balance, and a few other brands. I'm working my way through about a dozen different kinds right now from a trip to a new-to-me pet shop. Luckily, my other dog thinks it's fabulous when Pia rejects yet another food. She will eat ANYTHING and with complete gusto! When I feed Pia, dear Maggie waits in anticipation and cleans up afterward. I feed Pia either on the deck or on the driveway and after Maggie does her clean-up, I hose things down. If you have a link with some ideas on other things for me to try, I would appreciate it very, very much.

Before all this happened, we used to have a self-feeder of good quality dry food for snacking, and I'd feed Pia homemade food mixed with a little of the dry every evening. I had a recipe/formula from our former vet for a fairly balanced diet - three columns of ingredients and as long as I put in at least one from each column, it came out pretty well balanced, especially as an adjunct to the commercial food.

Then the manufacturer discontinued the dry food we'd used for a number of years and when we switched to something else, she seemed to gorge herself on it and then got pancreatitis and that's when all the bad stuff seemed to happen. I suppose she'd been slowly developing Cushings for a while, but the pancreatitis just pushed her completely off a cliff.

In the morning, I can usually get Pia to eat some Natural Balance food that comes in a roll, but not nearly enough to keep her alive. It's an almost dry food that's 6% fat. My husband thinks I should just go to Burger King and get her double cheeseburgers!

doxiesrock912

07-17-2013, 02:18 AM

Bonnie,
we recently decreased Daisy's dose by 25%. Not once has her IMS suggested a decrease higher than that.

We did take a few days off from Trilo until she began eating normally again and then resumed at the 7.5mg twice a day instead of 10mg twice a day.

I agree with the others from experience, that 50% seems excessive.

knitbunnie

07-17-2013, 12:00 PM

Just got off the phone with Dechra. They were helpful and informative and have helped me to formulate questions for Davis when they call back. Their thought is that Pia's numbers pre and post are pretty close together, and they suggested the possibility of Pia's going into Addisonian crisis should her levels continue to fall. They said that if we were 3 or 4 months out into treatment that those numbers would not be a concern, but given the downward change in her numbers in 3 weeks and the closeness of the pre and post that a decrease in dosage is appropriate and halving it would be ok. They also suggested that I encourage the vet to allow once-a-day dosing with the 10 mg capsules I already have.

They are also surprised at Pia's complete lack of appetite and they worry (as do I) that there's something else going on. This morning, she's completely uninterested in food, so I'm going to have to do the smear-food-on-the-roof-of-the-mouth routine. It's 9 am and time for her pills.

Dechra gave me a case number for Pia and encouraged me to call back with any further concerns or questions. They were very helpful, and I feel a little more calm about this latest turn of events.

labblab

07-17-2013, 01:11 PM

Bonnie, I'm really glad you called Dechra and their feedback is certainly added food for thought for us all!

goldengirl88

07-17-2013, 01:29 PM

I am glad you called Dechra. It is very helpful at times to talk to them. I hope the food on the roof of the mouth works!
Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

07-17-2013, 02:34 PM

AAAAND - - another call from Davis and more issues! Pia has some GI malabsorption going on. Her folate level is OK, but her B12 level, which should be over 250, is 211. So, we're headed to our local vet for a B12 shot. It could be several things, and the most likely is inflammatory bowel disease. Nothing showed up on her two abdominal ultrasounds, and this all seemed to start with her change in diet in March, so we're going to do supportive measures and approach it as IBD. Otherwise, we'd have to do about $2500 worth of GI scope and tissue sample collection to definitively diagnose, and that is just not a possibility.

We discussed going to once a day 10 mg dosing of trilostane, and the vet was pretty adamant that for Pia, the twice a day approach is what she needs right now.

The anti-nausea medication that Davis is sending me is Maropitant. I'm not completely sold on this idea since Pia is not vomiting at all. This morning, since she's still losing weight but still won't eat unless it's a Burger King double cheeseburger, I increased her feeding from 6 to 8 ounces (half low-fat commercial food and half chicken breast, stick-blended to a soft paste) - all roof-of-the-mouth smear and swallow. It stayed down, no problem. If anyone of you has had any experience with this medication, please give me some feedback. I would love it if the Maropitant gave Pia back her appetite.

Pia has a 2:30 appointment at the local vet for her first B12 injection. I want to get the B12 started, but I told Davis that after this I'd like to do my own injections at home, so I think that next time we go which will be in a month, barring complications between now and then, Davis is going to give me everything I need to do it at home.

Squirt's Mom

07-17-2013, 03:30 PM

Maropitant is Cerenia and Tasha took it but she was vomiting and couldn't stop. It did help her and pretty quickly but her case was altogether different than Pia's. I can see how IBD would cause nausea and I can see that the Cerenia could help before the vomiting actually started; the nausea would affect appetite as well so maybe that is the rationale behind the Cerenia. ? Just a guess, tho. ;) The low B12 could definitely impact the appetite and you may see an improvement there fairly soon after the shot. Let us know how she does and if the shot seems to help.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

knitbunnie

07-17-2013, 04:36 PM

A B12 request for the forum - the vet at Davis recommended one B12 shot monthly, but in doing some online investigating, I found that there are some current recommendations for weekly B12 shots for 6 weeks then monthly. I also read that since B12 is water soluble, it would be hard to overdose on it. Here's the info I found from Texas A & M. (http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information) I can get B12 and syringes online and do it myself, and on Amazon, it looks like I don't even need a prescription, and it's human-grade.

If anyone has any B12 experience, I would be really glad for some input.

frijole

07-17-2013, 06:05 PM

:D My Annie had an adrenal tumor and she lost a boatload of weight. She really wasn't on any meds - she was starving but something prevented her from eating for like 2 years... drove me nuts. I took her for acupuncture one to two times a week for the last 2 years of her life and that vet gave her B12 shots weekly. She was a new girl from them. The only pitfall to too much B12 is that it makes you pee. It happened to Annie and I take them as well and when I first went on them I was in the bathroom a lot! :) Other than that no issues whatsoever with my very frail girl. Kim

Budsters Mom

07-17-2013, 07:04 PM

My goodness Bonnie, you certainly have your hands full! I am so sorry.:o I don't know much about all the technical stuff so I'll leave that up to the experts. So instead, I'm just going to send hugs and healing energy to you and you babies.xxxxx

knitbunnie

07-18-2013, 01:14 AM

:D The only pitfall to too much B12 is that it makes you pee. Kim

Oh, my goodness. I don't think it's possible for Pia to pee any more than she already does! This should be interesting. I hate to do it, but I may have to put her in a bathroom (it's big!) at night with throw rugs. I really need to get some pee pads and give them a try. They're on my list for the grocery store!

This morning, I talked with the student vet who of course, nice as she is, managed to screw things up. Davis was to send me a prescription for Cerenia and a fax to the local vet for the first B12 shot which she'd said would be monthly. I emailed Pia's vet at Davis and questioned the B12 dosing based on finding that it should be dosed weekly for 6 weeks and then a B12 blood test and then monthly if things look good.

So, when I got to the local vet at 2:30 pm, they had an order for Cerenia and nothing for B12. It took the receptionist and me, both calling Davis several times, to get it straightened out and an order faxed to them. Three hours later, I had Cerenia tablets, Pia had a B12 shot, and the vet ordered shots once a week for 6 weeks - 500 micrograms. I have syringes on hand, and I ordered injectable B12 online for the rest of Pia's doses.

Pia is currently snoring under the dining room table, which is music to my ears. When she feels really bad, she doesn't snore. When she had her stroke three years ago, she stopped snoring for months, and lately she's been a much-too-quiet sleeper.

Kim - did the acupuncture help Annie's appetite? Pia had weekly acupuncture for months and months when she had her stroke. It's what saved her. She was such a successful little patient that when the veterinary clinic made new brochures for their acupuncture services, Pia was the cover girl. Unfortunately, we moved 2500 miles from them, so I can't go back there.

frijole

07-18-2013, 07:21 AM

I don't know if acupuncture helped her appetite - I just know she came out with energy and a huge smile on her face. She loved going to the vets. It certainly didn't hurt. I know it is soooo hard when they don't eat. I tried everything over a 2 yr period. Hugs, Kim

goldengirl88

07-18-2013, 08:16 AM

Bonnie:
You certainly have your hands full and I sure hope the B12 helps Pia's appetite. All I know about it from having the injections myself is that it gave me a boost when I was feeling worn out. I hope this does the trick as it is really hard to watch them not eat. I have a cat that has been ill periodically and he has to be on Periactin for an appetite stimulant. He gets a tiny amount, and every time I try to do without giving it to him he stops eating. It sure does work though, with little side effects . Only 1/4 tablet of I think 5mg and he is hungry. Good luck with Pia's eating. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

07-19-2013, 02:43 PM

Still not eating, darn it. I've read that if a dog has pancreatitis, that many small meals are better than a few larger ones, so for a few days we're going to go with 1 ounce of food every hour. Pia absolutely does not resist the smear-on-the-roof-of-the-mouth, so we've been at it since 7:30 this morning. To make it more acceptable, I give her a fresh bowl of water (even though there's a bowl accessible at all times) and do some tennis-ball time. She loves to tug on it and to go after it if I throw it across the room. I don't do anything strenuous with her, just enough to have her enjoy herself along with the feeding. It takes 3-4 smears to get the ounce into her, so it's quick and done. I am fortunate that she is so docile.

She seems to be feeling a bit better today. I emailed the vet yesterday to ask if I could give Pia some Tramadol for the pain of pancreatitis and to ask about frequent, small feeds. Last time she had pancreatitis, we did feeds 6 times a day, but if I can get the same amount of food into her in smaller feedings so she's not distressed, I'll do it every hour. I haven't heard back, so I did a bit of internet sleuthing and went ahead and gave her a dose of Tramadol this morning. She had a few tablets left over from her jaw problem. Maybe that's why she seems to be feeling a bit better today.

infoviewer

07-19-2013, 03:07 PM

Hey Bonnie: I have never texted to you. I have a dachshund named CoCo that I have thought had IBD or EPI, but he is starving all the time, the opposite of Pia. Have you ever tried Nutrical. It is supposed to give them an appetite. It is high calorie in a tube, different flavors. The first incredient is corn syrup and has oils in it so I do not give it to CoCo since he has soft stools and I was afraid it might cause diarrhea in him. You might google it and see if you think it would help. Some vets prescribe it to dogs who will not eat. Good luck with Pia. Love, JoAnne

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2013, 03:19 PM

My boy, Harley, had pancreatitis which prompted me to do a lot of research on it.

Pancreatitis can be painful so pain meds are vital. Like you mentioned, feeding several small meals (preferably low-fat) throughout the day is best and trying to keep them hydrated is important as it aids in the healing of the pancreas.

Hoping sweet Pia's appetite perks up real soon.

Love and hugs, Lori

doxiesrock912

07-19-2013, 05:33 PM

Bonnie,
more frequent smaller meals also helps with IBD.

molly muffin

07-19-2013, 06:30 PM

Oh I hope eating the smaller meals helps her and gets her going again. You're doing awesome. This is not a small job by any means. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

knitbunnie

07-19-2013, 07:48 PM

I need to remember to ask the vet about Nutrical. It worked miracles on my very sick cat many years ago. Pia definitely needs a nutrition boost after months of losing weight and being so darned sick with one thing after another. After 4 days on Clavamox, her UTI symptoms have pretty well resolved, thank goodness - only 6 days more of antibiotics.

I've come up with a pretty palatable homemade food, and Pia actually licked some off my fingers with her last feeding. Believe it or not, that's huge progress. At this point in time, I don't care if it's all that balanced, because she needs food so desperately, but I think my concoction is protein-laden (her protein is low), is low fat, and I figured out a way to get some added vitamins into it.

I bought a pack of boneless, skinless chicken breasts ( 3 1/4 pounds worth), put in enough water to cover them and microwaved them on very low power for 2 hours so they were falling apart. I let it cool for a bit then got out my handy-dandy stick blender and whirled away. I had to add about a cup more water so I could get it pretty smooth, then I put in one can of Happy Hips Chicken and Sweet Potato food for some of the vitamins and minerals that I know she needs (that's pretty lowfat - 4%) and blended some more.

It's a little runny from having to thin it out to really blend it finely, so each time I put an ounce in a bowl for a feeding, I add about 1/2 teaspoon baby oatmeal cereal. It's got vitamins and it makes the consistency just right. With her last feeding, when she licked a bit off my finger, I had added about a teaspoon of plain Greek yogurt. I will definitely do that again.

I've been trying to research pancreatitis, too, but it can get pretty confusing. I am so glad for the suggestions and advice from all of you. Your experience is so valuable. I haven't found a whole lot on IBD, so I'm really glad to hear that multiple small meals helps.

I think I'll stick to the hourly feeds for a couple more days, and then slowly increase from an ounce an hour to a ounce and a half every hour and a half and see how that goes. If it goes well, we'll move on to 2 ounces every two hours for a while, and I hope that by then she'll be doing some of the eating on her own. If I feed her every hour, starting first thing in the morning and last thing at night, I can probably get 16-17 ounces into her in a day. According to most 12-13 ounce dog food cans, she should get a can and a half to two cans per day, so we're close to that. Hopefully, she'll start eating food on her own and taking in enough to put some of her weight back on.

Pia prefers beef to chicken, so I though about trying the same food-making routine with beef instead of chicken. Does anyone know if chicken is better than beef for pancreatitis and IBD? Or would beef be ok if it's really lean?

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2013, 10:42 PM

Getting Pia to eat is priority, so if the hamburger is what she prefers than I would buy the leanest I could get and then rinse it with warm water after it is done cooking to try to get as much fat off as you can.

doxiesrock912

07-19-2013, 11:27 PM

Bonnie,
this sounds nasty, but you can boil the hamburger as you would chicken. It looks really unappetizing but it works.

Squirt's Mom

07-20-2013, 07:39 AM

Yes, she can haz burger! :D Cook then rinse with hot water - even if it's boiled, rinse it before using. You don't want to remove ALL the fats, tho. I made that mistake when Squirt had her acute attack - I tried to remove all fats and that ain't good! They need fats, just less than a healthy pup need. ;)

knitbunnie

07-20-2013, 09:41 AM

I will give the beef a try! Super lean burger is about $7 a pound at our supermarket, and it comes in pre-ground, so who knows what's in in and how long it's been sitting around. They had London Broil on sale for $2.99 a pound, so I bought some and am going to try doing my own. There's almost no visible fat on it and what little there is I'll trim off. I have a grinder attachment for my mixer, so I'll make my own super lean!

Pia woke up this morning looking sort of painful and she's farting like crazy, but she ate a small treat when she came in from her morning business! It's time to start day #2 of hourly feeds, and I'll slide in a tramadol with her first round of smear-on-the roof.

I sent the vet an email about giving Pia some Nutrical, but I haven't heard back. It sounds like a great idea.

goldengirl88

07-20-2013, 10:14 AM

Have you ever had the ID canned food from the vet. You can suck it up into a syringe and shoot it in their mouth. You could try a syringe if the other food is liquefied enough to suck it up. Good Luck. Blessings
Patti

Trish

07-20-2013, 04:48 PM

Has her jaw been checked properly, I remember there was something wrong with it and one stage and she was on antibiotics for it. Is it totally healed up? I was just wondering if there was anything in her jaw just simmering along as that would make her go off her food too.

Hope Pia is feeling better soon and wants to eat, what happens if she doesn't eat for a while... just thinking if she did not have the frequent feedings if she would build up a bit of an appetite and eat herself??

Harley PoMMom

07-20-2013, 06:12 PM

Hey Bonnie,

This article that I found on the DogAware site has a lot of helpful information concerning dogs that are picky eaters, scroll to "Foods to tempt your dog." In that topic I read about Rebound and DogSure.
Rebound and DogSure. These are nutritionally complete liquid meal replacement products.

Here's the link: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjinappetence.html

knitbunnie

07-21-2013, 02:18 AM

Such good ideas on that DogAware site. I will definitely give some of them a try. I sent for some slippery elm powder, since others here seem to have had pretty good luck with it. Tomorrow, I'll try some food rotation. My other dog will happily eat anything Pia rejects.

Pia's jaw infection seems to be gone. She has one little treat that she is willing to eat once or twice a day and it's hard and crunchy. She doesn't have any problem with it. They've checked her out at Davis, too.

I should probably try just not feeding Pia to see what happens, and even the vet has suggested it, but with the pancreatitis kicking in, a lot of what I've read says to do a lot of little meals. I went to knitting group today, so Pia had a few hours with no feeds. My husband is working out of town, and I needed some human company.

When I got home, I cooked some burgers with the meat that I ground up from London Broil, seasoned it with some Weber's Chicago Seasoning, and Pia ate about 3/4 of a good-sized burger. When I ground it up, I trimmed every little bit of fat from the burger, and when I cooked, I made myself one, too. It was definitely lean. I sprayed the pan with an olive oil mist before cooking, and there wasn't one drop of fat in the frying pan from the burger after they were cooked.

Today, Pia has had very smelly farts and really yucky smelling burps. It seems like every time she eats, she heads for the water bowl, not just today, but every time she eats anything. I wonder if we should get a GI consult at Davis next time we go in. After the burger, she seemed to drink a lot and seemed so uncomfortable that I crushed up half a Tums and sprinkled it onto her tongue. She didn't mind at all.

goldengirl88

07-21-2013, 07:46 AM

I think the seasoning you are putting on the food may contain salt. That could be why she runs to the water bowl after eating. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

07-21-2013, 10:53 AM

I think the seasoning you are putting on the food may contain salt. That could be why she runs to the water bowl after eating. Blessings
Patti

I wish that was a solution, and it's a really good thought, but it doesn't matter what I feed her. She runs to the water bowl every time she eats anything, whether it's a small dog treat, some boiled chicken, a lick of ice cream, anything at all. She heads for the water bowl.

My compounded 5 mg trilostane came in yesterday's mail from Diamondback, and they included a bone-shaped treat for Pia that was about 3 inches long. I broke off an end this morning and she was eager for it. She chomped with no problem, swallowed it and headed straight for the bowl. After that, she was not interested at all in the rest of it. I'm seeing a pattern develop. I really wonder if she needs to have GI involved.

frijole

07-21-2013, 12:00 PM

Budsters Mom

07-21-2013, 02:16 PM

Oh Bonnie,
I am so sorry that Pia continues to have so many so much trouble eating. I can feel your frustration. Poor little thing. Sending big hugs,

knitbunnie

07-21-2013, 05:53 PM

This is a total stab in the dark - others have offered thoughts re trachea issues which could also be happening but I share what happened to my Annie just in case... I lived with inappetance for years - she became skeletal. In her case she appeared to really want to eat but after a single bite she get a disgusted look on her face and plea with me for a different kind of food - every day her preference was different... anyway K State vet school finally did an endoscopy on her and found her entire throat from top to the stomach was covered with thousands of pus filled ulcers/sores. The guy doing the endoscopy had 25+ yrs and he had never seen anything like it... anyway it could be she has ulcers. ??? Drinking water might help push the food down? Same thing could be said for collapsed trachea? I don't know.. I just feel for you as I lived it. Annie wouldn't eat anything sweet but if Pia would tolerate the Nutrical I wouldn't hesitate to try it - lots of calories. Kim

Her behavior sounds a lot like Pia's. She eats something one day, turns her nose up at it the next, and never, ever wants to eat more than a few bites. She gets that look of disgust a lot, too.

The other thing I've found is that Pia is getting these little sort of hard, crusty plaques on her skin. Our local vet said they were some sort of calcium deposit from Cushings. She had two a few weeks ago, I found another a couple days ago, and now I've found three small ones on her side. I'd asked the vet at Davis about them, but she didn't know what they were and gave me some antibacterial wipes for them. Anyone recognize this as a sign/symptom of Cushings?

ETA - I spoke with my husband about Pia's drinking so much every time she eats and about Annie's symptoms. He definitely saw similarities. He's in Wyoming again for work, but he calls several times a day, because he's so worried about Pia. He said we should go for the GI consult, and now I fear Pia needs a dermatology consult, too. Pia needs to eat lowfat because of the pancreatitis, but she's always loved licking our ice cream bowls. I went to the store and got fat-free ice cream. She lapped up three whole ounces. (I can't believe I weigh everything I give her!) You all have to know I was ecstatic. I also sent for some Nutrical today.

knitbunnie

07-22-2013, 11:07 AM

Late last night, I found a big, crusty spot on Pia's back, between her shoulder blades. It felt like a firm ridge about an inch behind where her collar falls (her collar is a loose, nylon collar so it wasn't collar irritation). When I cleaned it, a lot of hair and crust fell off and it's red and raw and oozing underneath. I gave her a bath less than a week ago, so I know it wasn't there then. I did some more reading here on the forum and looked at some pictures. I think Pia has CC. It's unbelievable that she has yet another issue. I want to cry!!! She has little spots on her side, one beside her tail and one in front of each ear canal, but they're not big and oozy like the one I found last night.

I'm not supposed to go back to Davis for three more weeks. Pia's on antibiotics for her UTI for another week, so hopefully it will dry up and she won't get any skin infections between now and then. I emailed our regular vet at Davis last night after I found the oozing area. When I was there last week with Pia, I showed the smaller areas to the student vet and the resident who were taking care of Pia and they didn't know what the spots were. When I took Pia to our local vet for her vitamin B12 shot on Wednesday she mentioned that they could be "calcium deposits" related to Cushings. Wouldn't you think UC Davis vets would have known this? None of them has seen this latest mess on poor Pia's back. Do I take her in for it? Treat it at home as best I can? Have the local vet biopsy it? If anyone has some guidance for me, I'm all ears!

I will be so glad to see our regular vet at Davis again. We're going to schedule our next appointment so she sees Pia. Last time we went, it was just supposed to be a vet tech appointment for an ACTH stim test, but then Pia developed a UTI, and they had to squeeze Pia in with the vet that was available at the time, and the time before that our vet was on vacation, so we haven't seen her vet at Davis in the last two visits.

doxiesrock912

07-22-2013, 02:15 PM

Bonnie,

do you have the doctor's email address? If you do, take a picture of what you're finding and send an email with the timeline.

Maybe they can email you a prescription cream or something?

knitbunnie

07-22-2013, 02:30 PM

Bonnie,

do you have the doctor's email address? If you do, take a picture of what you're finding and send an email with the timeline.

Maybe they can email you a prescription cream or something?

I will ask about sending a picture. That is such a good idea. The only things Pia had when she was in last week were some bumpy spots that looked like a bunch of hard little whiteheads all clustered together and the skin felt hard, like a plaque. The vet resident and the vet student saw them, so I mentioned to our regular Davis vet that there should be notes in the chart.

I am going to have to work harder to get the same vet every time I go. Pia needs better continuity of care. Today, she looks painful and miserable. It's so hard to see her this way.

frijole

07-22-2013, 02:34 PM

I agree - take several photos for the vet and send them by email and save yourself a visit perhaps. Kim

doxiesrock912

07-22-2013, 02:35 PM

Awww Bonnie,
poor Pia! I have the email addresses to Daisy's general vet and the IMS specialist.

I would also send a picture of the spots that they do know about, just in case something is changing with those as well.

lulusmom

07-22-2013, 03:38 PM

It's highly unlikely that any vet will not diagnose calcinosis cutis from a picture. Everything I've read says that a tissue sample must be examined. The excerpt below can be found on a few veterinary sites that include a page calcinosis cutis.

Blood tests can help indicate some underlying primary conditions, but for confirmation, it may be necessary to obtain a sample of the calcified area. The tissue samples are submitted for microscopic examination by a veterinary pathologist at a specialized laboratory. Cytology (the microscopic examination of cell samples) is not useful for these conditions, so histopathology (the microscopic examination of specially prepared and stained tissue sections) is used. Depending on the case, your veterinarian may submit a small part of the mass (biopsy) or the whole lump, either to confirm the diagnosis of calcium deposits or to rule out local cancers.

knitbunnie

07-24-2013, 09:53 AM

Our Davis vet and I were in email contact yesterday, and she wants to see Pia and her probable calcinosis cutis. I can't do it today, but I'm calling them as soon as they open (it's 6:35 am here) and see if they have an opening Thursday or Friday. I already have an appointment for August 6th, since they wanted another (yes, another) ACTH stim test in 3 weeks. I thought they wanted it in 4 weeks, but it was the not-regular vet who told me that. She's also the one who didn't recognize the CC. Never again! It's funny how you get to trust one vet over another. Our Dr. B has my full support. She tells me she wants to see Pia's CC, so I'll be there tomorrow! She wants an ACTH stim test in 3 weeks - yes, ma'am!!

Yesterday's mail brought a bag of slippery elm tea. I made some and gave it to her before her mid-day offering of food (we're on an every-6-hour schedule for that) It didn't seem to help with her eating. She ate about 2/3 of a lowfat beef hot dog. I gave her some slippery elm again before supper and SHE ATE 6 OUNCES of super lean burger patty, and most of it was from a plate, not hand-fed. I was absolutely delirious with joy. This morning, she ate two little dog treats. As soon as I have my coffee, she'll have more slippery elm and we'll try breakfast.

She gets me up pretty early to do her business. I'd much rather that than cleaning up a big wet spot on the new carpet - aaarrrggghhh! I'm going to give her more slippery elm in a little while and see if she's willing to eat breakfast. If we had two meals in a row it would be so great.

Slippery elm question. Do you give it and then offer food right away or give it and then wait a little while for it to work?

Later - I gave Pia two teaspoons of thick slippery elm tea and a little while later offered her two of her fav treats - lowfat hot dog and steak. She gave me the look of horror and turned away. I was so disappointed. I had to give her her medicine - trilostane and Clavamox, both of which need to be given with food. Not wanting to stress her out, which happens when I force feed her, I used less than an ounce of chicken breast mush and smeared the pills into her. THEN SHE LICKED THE REST OF THE CHICKEN OFF MY FINGERS!!!!, So I gave her the two hot dog and two steak bites and she ate them with gusto. I'd made myself a 3-egg omelet with ham (too much for me but optimistically hoping she'd eat some) and she ate about a third of it. I'm doing a happy, happy, happy dance!!!

labblab

07-24-2013, 03:48 PM

Bonnie, I'm so glad Pia is showing interest in food!! I know that is huge for you :). One word of caution, though, is that it is recommended that you not give slippery elm within two hours of other medications because it may affect their absorption. So you may want to rearrange your slippery elm dosing schedule. :o

Marianne

doxiesrock912

07-24-2013, 03:55 PM

That's AWESOME news!

knitbunnie

07-24-2013, 07:19 PM

Simba's Mom

07-24-2013, 10:40 PM

yay, so glad to hear that Pia is eating, way to go Pia!

molly muffin

07-25-2013, 08:24 PM

Checking in to see how Pia is doing today? Did she eat anything?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

07-25-2013, 10:52 PM

You are so kind to check in on us. Today, Pia's appetite hasn't been as good as the past two days, but she is eating on her own except for a little chicken breast mush with her pills. Today's mail brought some Nutrical, so I'll supplement with a teaspoon or two of that if she doesn't eat enough supper.

Her calcinosis cutis is looking dry, I haven't seen any new spots, and she's not rolling around on the carpet to itch her back, so our vet decided to take a wait-and-see approach rather than our making the trip to Davis.

My vet just emailed me and when I answered, I told her that it seems like every time Pia eats she drinks a lot and then stands and pants and pants, and that I think Pia is having pain. In a past email, I requested that there be a consideration that something GI is going on, and I mentioned it again.

Right now, Pia is asleep, and she quivers with nearly every exhale. She is breaking my heart!. I looked into acupuncture for her, hoping she could get some comfort from it, since it was really good for her when she had her stroke 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the vet who does it is out of the office until mid-August.

I'm going to cook her a fresh burger patty for supper. That seems to be what she eats the best these days. I got out the grinder and made some fresh burger today, so I'll probably have the same thing!

Budsters Mom

07-25-2013, 11:35 PM

Big hugs for you!:) I know this is all so hard!:o xxxx

scoora

07-26-2013, 08:53 PM

How's Pia doing today? Hope she is feeling better.

molly muffin

07-26-2013, 10:12 PM

Oh dear I do see what you mean about her maybe being in pain. Did the vet say anything about looking into that further? Have you mentioned it to Davis?
Many members have mentioned the panting.
Eating something on her own is better than having to put something onto the roof of her mouth to get nutrition into her. So over all that is progress. Baby steps. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

goldengirl88

07-27-2013, 08:32 AM

Just checking on Pia. I am sorry things are still going rough for her. I would keep on the vet about the pain you think she is having and get some answers. At this point I would make the burgers if she will eat that. I am so sorry this is happening, and hope it gets better soon. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

07-27-2013, 10:45 AM

Pia has been pretty quiet today. She was excited when my husband got home last night after two weeks away for work. When he gave attention to our other dog, she was definitely jealous, and then she decided to stick by my side like glue because I think she didn't like that I was giving some of "her" attention to someone else. It was pretty funny.

Every time I email my vet, I remind her that Pia seems like she's having pain. I describe the panting, the bloating, the burpy swallowing that she does repeatedly after eating anything, and the quivering that she does at rest some of the time. It stops when I put my hand on her or talk to her, so it's not some involuntary neuro thing. When she eats, sometimes she seems really interested but usually after a few bites, she's done.

I started giving her Nutrical to supplement her inadequate diet, which the vet had said was OK to do. I've asked the vet three times now about giving Pia some tramadol (we have some left from her jaw issue), and she has never given me an answer. She mentioned getting me a prescription for a "controlled substance" if I thought it was necessary for pain, but has never, ever answered me on the tramadol.

We're going to Davis on the 6th and maybe, with my continued urging, we'll look into something GI that's causing Pia to have these issues. I've asked my husband to do some good observations on Pia, too, and he completely agrees that she seems to be having problems with the mechanical aspect of getting food from mouth to stomach. If only for my own peace of mind, I wish they'd investigate further. I keep thinking about frijole's Annie and her trachea with the many pus-filled sores.

scoora

07-27-2013, 08:40 PM

Bonnie, I hope the vets can figure out why Pia 's eating is the way it is. My Scoop's eating was very strange. It was very hard not knowing how to fix it. If things would have turned out different for my Scoop I would have seen about having a scope done.
Hugs to you and Pia.

molly muffin

07-28-2013, 09:28 AM

Good morning, hope Pia is doing better today. Gee, I really hope Davis takes this GI issue seriously, it does sound like it needs to be looked into.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

07-28-2013, 07:18 PM

Life sure has its ups and downs for Pia. I could tell this morning when she woke up that she just wasn't feeling well. She was intermittently quivering and was not interested in doing anything at all. Even getting her to "go outside" was a struggle.

She didn't want to eat, but she needs food with her pills, so instead of giving with food, I used Nutrical, and then I read the label - very high fat. It seemed to make her feel worse, and I wonder if her pancreatitis is still unresolved. I still think there's something going on with her swallowing because even with water she is "urpy" afterward. I'm still giving her slippery elm tea, and it think it does as much good as anything we've tried.

At around 2 pm, she decided to eat a little something, about 2 ounces of her current favorite, some hamburger. I cook a few burgers at a time and keep them in the refrigerator. My husband is under strict orders that they are not "leftovers". They are Pia's and only Pia's food. The rush to the water bowl every time she eats anything continues.

After finally eating a little something, she settled down to sleep, has been pretty quiet since then, and the quivering has stopped. It's good to see her looking peaceful and resting comfortably.

scoora

07-28-2013, 08:22 PM

Bonnie,
My Scoop got to the point where he was so picky about what he would eat and sometimes we had to just keep after him with something then he would eat it. His pickiness became worse a little bit at a time over months. He would only eat so much and then it was off to the water bowl, every time. He would drink ALOT of water. After he was done drinking he would not eat anything at all for quite awhile.
When you say about Pia rushing to the water bowl every time after she eats, it just reminds me of how Scoop was.
Hoping things are better for Pia.

Budsters Mom

07-30-2013, 03:07 AM

My heart goes out to you Bonnie. I know that this is a really difficult time for you. You are a great mom and you were doing all that you can. I know that Pia appreciates it and loves you very much. I know the eating/not eating thing is weighing heavily on you. I wish I was able to do something to help. Sending prayers and healing energy your way. Xxxxx

goldengirl88

07-30-2013, 08:11 AM

Bonnie:
I know it is heart wrenching to see your beloved Pia not eating. I am praying for you both that this situation gets turned around. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

07-31-2013, 09:29 PM

I am almost afraid to say it that Pia has had a couple good days. Her 2 weeks of Clavamox finished up on Monday, and I am watching her like a hawk for any return of UTI symptoms.

Yesterday and today, as usual, she woke up and refused to eat, but I'm seeing a pattern - Pia is just not a morning eater, so we're getting onto a routine. She starts the day with a dose of slippery elm tea and then a couple hours later she gets her trilostane in an ounce or so of food that I have to smear onto the roof of her mouth to get it down. A couple hours after that, she's interested in food - yahoo!!! All I can get her to eat is hamburger, so hamburger it is. Since I grind my own, I can trim off any visible fat, so I'm hoping that her pancreatitis is resolving on this regime.

The vets had suggested that she may have IBD, and they wanted to put her on some ultra-expensive dog food that I can only buy by the $90 case online unless I get it from them. I will buy a few cans next week when we go back to Davis, but I cannot see buying an entire case unless I know she'll eat it. It's Royal Canin Rabbit & Potato prescription food.

This whole Cushings/pancreatitis flare all started with a change in food. Pia had been on a completely beef-based diet for several years following her stroke, at the advice of the Chinese herbalist with whom our vet consulted. I had to change her dry food, even though I continued to cook her beef-based wet food, and the new dry food, which she ate like crazy, had other animal protein sources besides beef. So, I've decided to feed her nothing but beef as a meat source. I bought some vegetarian canned food, and that's what I'm using to smear her pills into her. Her belly is as soft as it's been in months, and she just doesn't look as bloated and pot-bellied.

She still pants like crazy, especially with any exertion, but she's more eager to play than she's been in a while. She quivers when she sleep, especially on exhale, but even that seems to be better. I haven't seen any more calcinosis cutis spots popping up, and the big one between her shoulder blades seems unchanged, dry, and crusty. She's getting her B12 shots weekly and doesn't seem to mind them at all.

I've played with her GI meds - Gas-X, Himalayan Gasex, Prozyme, and Pepcid, in various combinations. I've concluded that the Pepcid hasn't done much at all, and I don't know about the Prozyme but she's getting that once a day, at least until the bottle is empty. The Gas-X tabs (1/4 tab twice a day crushed up) and the Himalayan Gasex seem to do the best job of getting rid of the gas and bloating.

I just bought some L-Glutamine powder and am giving her (as best I can measure) 500 mg a day. I just started that after noticing that several people on the forum have used it, and so I read some more online and with the pancreatitis having reared its ugly head twice, it seems like a good idea.

I hope I haven't jinxed us by saying things are looking better. She and I are headed to UC Davis on Tuesday for yet another ACTH stim test. Hard to believe, but she loves going there. Me, not so much!

scoora

07-31-2013, 09:52 PM

Bonnie, Glad to hear things are going a bit better for Pia.
Hope it keeps improving.

Squirt's Mom

08-01-2013, 09:42 AM

It's Royal Canin Rabbit & Potato prescription food.

Before you buy this feed, do a bit of research. Earlier this year, RC did a voluntary recall on many of it's dry feeds because of melamine from China - again - including the prescription feeds. Brick and Trick were eating this feed; both developed elevated glucose and diarrhea, tho with Trink I can't be sure it was the feed alone since she has colitis. Brick's diarrhea stopped when I changed his feed and both their glucose came back to normal. I don't know that melamine would effect the BG, but something in that feed did for them. Complaints are still coming in from consumers as recently as July 2013 so do research before you purchase and start Pia on it. ;)

knitbunnie

08-01-2013, 11:15 AM

Before you buy this feed, do a bit of research. Earlier this year, RC did a voluntary recall on many of it's dry feeds because of melamine from China - again - including the prescription feeds.

Oh, wow - I didn't know that. I will closely question the nutritionist at Davis before I buy it.

Pia got bloated last night - worse than she's been in a week or so. I need to do some food experiments. Pia LOVES oatmeal cookies (I bake a lot), so I found a fat-free recipe online - oatmeal, a little sugar, flour, cinnamon, baking powder, and apple sauce - and gave her one last night before bedtime. She was thrilled, but within half an hour or so she was bloated. I'm going to give her belly a rest for a day or two and try again - the big cookie experiment. I hate to deprive her of her treats. If she can't eat them, I will. They're not fabulous, but they're not too bad. Maybe it's the wheat flour.

Pia was pretty peppy this morning, though, especially when she spied the jack rabbit in the back yard. She was quivering in a good way:)

goldengirl88

08-01-2013, 12:21 PM

Bonnie:
You just send those treats on over here to Tipper she said she will gladly take care of them for Pia! Sometimes Tipper looks bloated too, I don't know what it is from. Blessings
Patti

Squirt's Mom

08-01-2013, 12:33 PM

Bonnie, have you ever tried removing the grains from Pia's diet?

knitbunnie

08-01-2013, 02:06 PM

Bonnie, have you ever tried removing the grains from Pia's diet?

Lately, she's been eating nothing except ground beef and a few smears of Evanger's vegetarian canned dog food (http://www.whitedogbone.com/evangers-vegetarian-canned-dog-food-13oz?gdftrk=gdfV25255_a_7c1624_a_7c6390_a_7cEVG211 010&gclid=CLL8p63p3LgCFa9fQgodCjMASw) to get the pills down. The main ingredients in that, besides the laundry list of vitamins and minerals, are "Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Water Sufficient for Processing,Brown Rice, Carrots, Olive Oil, Peas, Fresh Blueberries, Fresh Cranberries, Dried Brewers Yeast, Guar Gum, Taurine"

She's been on the ground beef and vegetarian food for about a week, and I've been seeing her bloating decrease, and her stomach is definitely softer. She has had an occasional bite of my regular oatmeal cookies (they are "regular" and have butter), and she loves them, so that's why I decided to try a fat-free recipe just for her. It definitely could be the wheat. She seemed non-bloated and very perky, even ate some burger a few minutes ago, so I gave her a cookie again, and I'll see what happens.

If she can't eat those cookies, I can! They are definitely better today than they were yesterday, and believe me, I can use the fat-free version with my coffee. I found a few more recipes online that use no wheat, so I'll be experimenting again if these make her swell up and seem uncomfortable.

Do oats count as grain? Rice?

knitbunnie

08-01-2013, 02:10 PM

Bonnie:
You just send those treats on over here to Tipper she said she will gladly take care of them for Pia! Sometimes Tipper looks bloated too, I don't know what it is from. Blessings
Patti

Ha-ha! If Tipper is an oatmeal cookie fan, these Egg-Free Low-Fat Oatmeal Cookies (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/egg-free-low-fat-oatmeal-cookies/) are pretty easy, and you probably have everything in your pantry to make them. I didn't add nuts or raisins, and I patted the blobs down with wet fingers to flatten them out before baking, because they don't spread at all. I also baked them on parchment paper, so I didn't have to grease the cookie sheet. Maybe my oven isn't hot enough, but I also added 2 minutes to the bake time.

Last night, they were sort of hard and bouncy. After a night of rest in a plastic bag, they're softer and more flavorful and so moist that I've put them in the refrigerator.

Squirt's Mom

08-01-2013, 02:23 PM

Yes, oats and rice are grains. The reason I asked is that I thought the bloating was better until the cookies so I wondered about the oats.

goldengirl88

08-01-2013, 03:37 PM

Bonnie:
No nuts or raisins please the raisins are poisonous to dogs. The nuts are bad too. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

08-01-2013, 05:48 PM

Yes, oats and rice are grains. The reason I asked is that I thought the bloating was better until the cookies so I wondered about the oats.

I wonder about the wheat flour, too. I found a different recipe to try next that doesn't have wheat flour. No matter how much I experiment, cookies will NEVER go to waste at my house.

Squirt's Mom

08-01-2013, 05:56 PM

LOL If you run into trouble getting rid of them, I'll be happy to send my address! :D

I've been making treats using spelt flour - less gluten. I also use brown rice flour at times and they seem to do well with both and like both.

goldengirl88

08-02-2013, 08:28 AM

I am glad Leslie posted this. I am going to try the brown rice flour. I have a recipe that uses wheat flour, and diced apple they seem to love them, but they must be refrigerated because of the apple. I have been trying to just give Tipper dog food nuggets for treats as I am trying to get weight off of her because of her legs. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

08-04-2013, 10:02 PM

Having a bad day. Pia is refusing all food and is shaking a lot. We have an appointment Tuesday at Davis. Last night, she urped up a bunch of thick white foam, but what little food she'd eaten stayed down. My Pia is looking so darned sad. She seems itchy from the calcinosis cutis, so I gave her a Benadryl. She weighs about 25 pounds, so I gave her 1 - 25 mg tablet about an hour ago. I hope it helps her to get some relief.

Other than looking sad, and having the calcinosis cutis spots, her body shape looks better than it's looked in a while. She's not bloating up like she used to and she's not standing and panting like she's in pain, but she quivers a lot, especially with exhalation. It's tough to watch her but that seems to be all I do - watch and worry.

doxiesrock912

08-05-2013, 01:11 AM

Shaking is often a sign that something hurts.
I'm glad that Pia will see the vet on Tuesday.

Squirt's Mom

08-05-2013, 07:48 AM

How is Pia this morning, honey?

goldengirl88

08-05-2013, 08:12 AM

Bonnie:
Do you think Pia could be in pain somewhere? When is the last time she had an ACTH? I would let the vets know about the shaking and see if they can find anything painful on her. I hope the shaking goes away as it has to be hard to watch. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

08-05-2013, 10:58 AM

Hi all and thank you for your support and suggestions. Pia's last ACTH was just about 3 weeks ago, and she's having another one tomorrow. Last time she was at Davis, I pointed out the quivering/shaking, which she was doing at the time, so the vet saw it. I've asked about giving her Tramadol since I have some on hand and have not gotten a response to that question which I've asked a couple times in emails. The vet answers other parts of my emails and has not addressed that.

Pia was up twice in the night to go outside - 2 am and 4:30 am. It's about 7:30 now and she's snoozing and quivering at my feet after another visit to the great outdoors. She seems very cyclic with her drinking - a lot in the nighttime and then again in the afternoon. She's getting 5 mg trilostane morning and night, spaced 12 hours apart. Today and tonight and tomorrow morning, I'm going to be sure she gets it exactly at 8 and 8 because her test is at 11 am and Davis wants the ACTH stim test 2-4 hours after taking it.

I'm thinking maybe I need to keep a diary of times - when she drinks a lot, when she is willing to take some bites of food, when she shakes, and when she takes her trilostane. Maybe there's a pattern. I wonder if she'd do better on three times a day dosing. Her amount is small, 5 mg for a 12 kg dog, so I think I'll ask about it because what we're doing now isn't helping her much at all. She's not getting any stronger, the panting continues, she still does not eat except for a few bites here and there, she's developed calcinosis cutis, the peeing/drinking continues, she quivers, and she has no energy or endurance. The biggest thing that's been a positive is that she's not so bloated all the time.

Our youngest son is coming home in mid-September to visit. He's in grad school in Oregon and was doing a summer internship in Idaho, so he hasn't seen her since January. I hope she makes it until then because my son wants to see her so much, and it makes me cry to think that last time he was home, she was Crazy Pia, her normal, silly, fun little self. If someone had told me then that Pia would be so sick for so long, I'd never have believed it.

doxiesrock912

08-05-2013, 01:51 PM

knitbunnie

08-05-2013, 03:31 PM

Bonnie,
I don't like that your vet fails to answer all of your questions. That stinks!

I'm sorry that Pia isn't doing well and with the excess drinking at night, I wonder if she needs more Trilo at night? Daisy has responded well to 10mg in the morning and 7.5mg at night. 10 and 10 were too high for her.

I hope the ACTH gives you some answers.

Your son is in for a shock I'm afraid. I look at pictures taken less than a year ago and I can't believe the change in Daisy. This disease truly sucks.

I don't understand why she hasn't addressed the issue of pain and tramadol. I don't email her all the time, so I haven't been a pest about it.

I will ask about giving two different dosages and also about giving it three times a day instead of twice. We have to use compounded trilostane, so getting non-standard dosing isn't an issue. Diamondback was quick to get it to me.

My youngest son is a very tender-hearted young man. He is going to be devastated when he sees Pia.

I gave Pia a Benadryl again this morning and she seems more comfortable. Unfortunately for her, it's bath time. She's definitely itchy, so I got some Neutrogena T/Gel shampoo for her. Hopefully, it will help. I looked at all the pet shampoos at four different places - a big box store, a drug store, a supermarket, and a pet store, and none of them seemed to have anything like it, just shampoos that smell like watermelon, or vanilla, or other frou-frou stuff. I live in the boonies, so my choices are limited. Pia needs something for relief, not something that makes her smell like flowers or food.

molly muffin

08-05-2013, 09:16 PM

Checking in on you and Pia.
I know we have talked about the possibility that Pia is in pain for some reason. Maybe talk to Davis about this at your appointment and nail them down in person about the Tramadol too. Even ask for a prescription you could have filled "if needed". I know you have a few left, but just so you don't have to mess with it later, if they think it is okay to give her pain meds.
Poor Pia, I am sure your son is going to be sad to see Pia like this. I am hoping that things will start to turn around for her. If the bloating seems to be better and the tummy looking better, then perhaps it will.
Sometimes, it is day by day, but other times we have to just take it hour by hour, and see how things go. Maybe a diary would help to determine some sort of pattern.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

doxiesrock912

08-05-2013, 11:06 PM

Ask the vet for a prescription shampoo. I worry about the perfumes etc in the other since Pia is already uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to make the itching worse.

goldengirl88

08-06-2013, 08:39 AM

I agree with Valerie and part of the reason I think a daily doggie diary is a must to see patterns, and be able to reference things to tell your vet when they happened etc. I hope for your sake Pia turns the corner and starts getting better. Praying for you Both
Patti

knitbunnie

08-06-2013, 11:07 AM

Thank you, each one of you! Pia and I are ready to leave. It's 8 am and our appt is at 11. I'm hoping to meet MagicsMom in the waiting room. That would be pretty exciting.

I'm going to have to ask for a pee-check at Davis, too. Pia was out at midnight. I woke up at 1:40 to a puddle by the front door, and woke up again at 5:45 to one on an area rug. It's no fun to clean it up, but it's even worse for Pia if she's got a UTI.

Pia had her trilostane at 7:50 and as usual, she was completely uninterested in eating anything. I smeared about an ounce of food onto the roof of her mouth (not all at once), and that's about the best I can do.

Well, we're off to drive over the mountain. Keep Pia in your prayers today.

addy

08-06-2013, 01:29 PM

Good luck with your appointment! Make sure you have your list of questions and talking points!!!:):)

My parents used to live in Vacaville, about an hour north of San Francisco. Lovely area.

We will be here waiting for your update!

doxiesrock912

08-06-2013, 03:22 PM

Bonnie,

here's to some answers for you and Pia! We'll be waiting for your post.

molly muffin

08-06-2013, 08:50 PM

I'll be waiting too! Hoping for a good appointment!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

08-06-2013, 09:50 PM

Long day, long, long day! The vet we were supposed to see had a family emergency, so once again, we saw a different vet. We actually saw a vet student, a resident vet and a faculty member/vet. Apparently, Pia is a most interesting case, so the faculty member came in on it today.

The did the ACTH stim test, and will call me with numbers and any med changes as soon as they have the results. I brought up the possibility of 3-times-a-day dosing and the faculty vet agreed that it could be a good thing, so once she looks at Pia's numbers we'll go from there. We talked about the cyclic nature of her drinking and peeing, so that really reinforced the possibility. I would much rather give Pia medication 3 times a day if it helps.

They pulled a sterile urine for culture because Pia has increased urgency, and she's having much more frequent urination with smaller quantities. Pia finished 14 days of Clavamox about a week ago for a UTI, and the faculty vet said she'd have given it to Pia for a month, so because the resident didn't, I have to pay for another $100 worth of urine stuff and will probably have to give Pia antibiotics for another month if the culture is positive. Her urine, which is usually odorless, definitely has an odor, too.

They thoroughly examined Pia and they feel that the quivering is part of her Cushings, that some dogs just do it, so they didn't think pain was an issue. I have Tramadol, so if she really looks like she's hurting, I'm giving it to her! They agree that Pia has calcinosis cutis. I'm to continue wiping it with antibacterial wipes and they were fine with the benadryl and medicated shampoo. I haven't seen any enlargement of Pia's crusty spots, and haven't seen any new ones in about a week.

They want to do an endoscopy and take samples to rule out IBD. That is SOOOO expensive! Instead, we're going to do a trial of a novel protein diet, and so I have a case of potato/venison food. It's Royal Canin, so I'm not thrilled, but we'll give it a try. She lost another pound, so waiting for her to get her appetite back is not an option. Pia really does tolerate my smearing food into her mouth, so it's going to happen.

We discussed the possibility of a feeding tube if she doesn't start eating. I guess we'll revisit that idea after a month's trial of this new food. It seems like a terrible thing to do to a dog, but they said that many dogs have them and they don't seem to mind at all. I'll have to investigate further. If anyone has any thoughts or experience with feeding tubes, I'd love to hear about it.

I asked the vet about ACTH and appetite because every time we go to Davis and have a stim test, I stop at a fast food joint on the way home and Pia eats a cheeseburger, not a big one, but she eats! Today, she ate all the meat and cheese and most of the bun from a Wendy's $1 cheeseburger. This all started when I stopped for a bite to eat and Pia absolutely stared me down for that burger. I gave it to her and went through the drive through again. So now I get her one, too. This is three times in a row! The Davis vets have no idea why it would make Pia actually seem hungry. If any of you have thoughts on that, I'd love to hear them.

Pia was so sweet after she at her cheeseburger. She laid on the front seat of the car and slept as quietly as I've seen her sleep in a while - no quivering, no panting, just solid sleep and a soft snore. It was such a good thing.

doxiesrock912

08-06-2013, 10:30 PM

A feeding tube? I'd rather them prescribe an appetite inducing medication than resort to a tube. Along with Cushings comes a fragile immune system and I would worry about infections where the tube is.

Hopefully they'll come up with answers after the tests come back.
Crossing my fingers!

MagicsMom

08-06-2013, 11:18 PM

Hi. I just read your posts because I wanted to see how your appointment went today.
I posted a note on my thread yesterday that I wouldn't be there today but forgot to post it here for you. Magic has not been on his Trilostane since his episode last Friday and is still holding his own off the drug. So they said I should wait for the ACTH test until he's back on the Trilostand and cancelled todays appointment. I'm so sorry I missed you and you didn't get the message before your appointment today.

Sounds like Dr B was out today as well... that's too bad. I'm glad you are getting a lot of attention and people looking at Pia's case. I'm sure more is better but sometimes it offers more different opinions as well. I like Dr B because she is clear when she has a strong opinion about something.

I hope you get some good results and Pia starts eating too. I am far from a Cushings expert but no appetite is really strange for a cushings dog. Hopefully, when the clear everything else up you will see that monster eater in Pia. My favorite saying is that my cushionoid dog will try to eat anything that doesn't eat him first :)

Oh and one thing to note that I didn't realize when I started giving Magic three pills a day... They should be 8 hours apart.. sounds obvious but I was giving with three meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner) and just didn't occur to me. So just in case they didn't mention that the pills should always be the same dosage and evenly spaced out.

Anyway, I'm really sorry our paths didn't cross today. I'm guessing we will meet up at some point. I definitely need to get Magic back there for his ACTH (once he's back on Trilostane) and also his spleen issues.

Safe travel home and a peaceful night to you and Pia!

Karen (and Magic)

infoviewer

08-07-2013, 05:44 AM

Hi Bonnie: Sorry you are having trouble with Pia not eating. Have you ever tried Nutrical. It comes in a tube and you just give them a little. Has a lot of calories and is supposed to stimulate their appetite. I give a little to CoCo because he had lost weight, but he will eat anything. His thyroid medicine was too high or worms. Don't know which caused him to lose weight, but he has gained a pound in the last week so. I still give him a little of the Nutrical since it has so many calories. You can get it at the pet store or at Amazon.com. Good luck with Pia. Love, JoAnne

knitbunnie

08-07-2013, 09:55 AM

molly muffin

08-07-2013, 06:56 PM

knitbunnie

08-07-2013, 09:43 PM

Oh my. I am sure that Pia is an interesting case for them, but alright, now they have looked, lets get it fixed. :)

I'm not sure how I feel about the feeding tube idea. I'd think it would be worth it to check out all possibilities first? What do you think about it?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I like the way you think! Yes, she is interesting. Now get on with things!!!

The feeding tube issue is going to require a great deal of thought. I'd like to talk with a few people who have had dogs with feeding tubes before I take such a drastic step. The vets at Davis act like it's no big deal for dogs to have them. To me, it's a huge deal.

I'm currently composing an email to explain Pia's history to a holistic vet who does adjunct therapies and acupuncture and is ONLY an hour away from home! It's just too much to go to an appointment and tell someone all Pia's issues and expect them to digest the whole thing, starting with her stroke 3 years ago, the rapid onset of her current illness, all the tests, the treatment, the mess our local vet made, the feeding issues, etc., so the vet wants it all beforehand so she can decide whether or not she thinks she can help Pia to have a better quality of life.

I know there's not a cure, but if Pia was more comfortable, it would be great. I wrote a long email and put it into the "draft" file in my email. I'll go over it again tomorrow and send it on after a little fine tuning. I don't want to forget anything important. This vet is a UC Davis grad, so she should be very familiar with the Davis way.

Trixie

08-08-2013, 12:48 AM

I think it's great you're going to see the holistic vet. It can't hurt! It's not like you're giving up conventional treatments, but perhaps there's something that can help with Pia's appetite as well as ideas to help with Cushings.
Certainly worth a try and especially as it's so close by. It will be very interesting to hear what you find out there.
Hope Pia's doing ok tonight...sounds like she had a good ride home from the vet, downed a cheeseburger and slept like a baby, that all sounds good! :p

Barbara

goldengirl88

08-09-2013, 12:06 PM

I am so distressed to hear Pia is still not eating well. I hope whatever decision you make that it helps Pia. She has certainly had her share of troubles the poor thing. Hoping all goes uphill from here. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

08-09-2013, 01:18 PM

Frustration reigns! ACTH stim test and urine work were done Tuesday, and today's Friday. It took a call from me to get a call-back from UC Davis.

The student vet just called and said that the urine is growing "something" but they want to do sensitivities before they prescribe another antibiotic. Good grief! I knew on Tuesday that she had a UTI, and now, three days later, it certainly hasn't gotten any better. It's no wonder she's having accidents. I wanted them to give her antibiotics on Tuesday and change them if needed after culture sensitivity results. Can you imagine living with a UTI for days and days without treatment?

I don't have Pia's ACTH stim test results back - the student didn't have those numbers on hand. She said that because Pia is such an "odd case" that they're consulting with Dr. Feldman on what to do next. I jumped for joy at hearing that THE MAN is being consulted!

I also discussed the feeding tube issue further. I told them I'd consider it if and only if they use a scope for the insertion and do a thorough exam of Pia's esophagus and her whole swallowing mechanism when they do it because sometimes Pia looks like she wants to eat, or she takes a bite and swallows it and then she chews up the next bite and doesn't want to swallow it. Invariably, after eating anything, no matter how small, or after being force-fed, she runs to the water bowl and drinks and drinks and drinks. They're going to have to put Pia under anesthesia for it, and I told her I won't consider doing a feeding tube unless they also thoroughly examine her throat, mouth, and esophagus.

Pia's jaw infection keeps running through my mind. They found a draining tract from a foreign body but didn't find the foreign body, itself. They thought it was probably a foxtail, and I have to wonder if it's possible that it's still in there somewhere and causing trouble.

MagicsMom

08-09-2013, 10:17 PM

Oh wow... that sucks.
I was at UC today for Magic's ACTH stim.. they said they would call me with results today or tomorrow. Didn't hear from them today but guess I won't hold my breath since you are still waiting from Tuesday. I can't believe you haven't heard anything all week.

Did you ever get to talk to Dr B? Is she back? I met with Dr Z today (not sure if you know her- I really like her.. met with her last week when Dr B was busy). I think Dr B was there today just busy. Dr Z is an intern so still refers and consults everything she tells us with Dr B but was very helpful and talked to us today for about 30 minutes about Magic.

I think you said you had someone's email.. maybe you should try that route. I send Dr Z an email (hey we will be in for Magics ACTH would like to discuss his spleen, etc..) and she said she or Dr B would meet with me today and did. So I have had better luck with email than phone calls. I have yet to have a phone call returned in a timely manner. I was going to email her tomorrow about the ACTH results if I don't hear back.

Just a thought. Sorry don't have much advise to add on what to do with Pia - wish I did. Just do what you can. She's a lucky little dog to have you!

Best,

Karen

knitbunnie

08-09-2013, 11:32 PM

Karen - I am sorry our paths haven't yet crossed, but I'm sure they will. I haven't met Dr. Z, but I've met Dr. Yaemsiri, Dr. Sykes, Dr. Perry, Dr. B, and an assortment of student vets, seems like a new one every single time. Pia has also been seen by neuro, radiology and dentistry, but I haven't met any of them. Pia is quite the popular pup, though. I wish you and Magic much luck with your next meeting. It's so darned stressful to wait and wait and wonder and wait some more.

I finally heard back from Davis on a few things. Pia is going to get started on Amoxicillin, probably tomorrow. They were going to try to call in a prescription tonight, but I don't know how late the pharmacy at the local big box store is open. I'll check in tomorrow morning with the pharmacy.

The student vet said they could put in the feeding tube and at the same time use a scope to look over Pia's throat and esophagus, but the resident who called me said they can't. I wish they'd all get on the same wavelength. She mentioned doing a swallow study with fluoroscopy. I absolutely cannot see doing it since Pia is perfectly capable of drinking and swallowing water. I think something down there HURTS!

Pia's pre and post ACTH results were 4.1 pre and 4.9 post, so they said she needs more trilostane, but they want to talk with Dr. Feldman about her dosing, and he is currently in Guatemala. They're actually trying to contact him about Pia, so I think they're all pretty much scratching their heads. So for now, Pia is staying on the same dose which I think is pretty chicken shit (sorry, but I am so frustrated!).

We're going to try an increased dose of Mirtazipine appetite stimulant and see how that goes. Pia is currently not willing to eat anything at all, not even her favorite cookies.

No word yet from the holistic vet, either, but she just got back from two weeks of vacation, so she's got a lot of catching up to do.

doxiesrock912

08-09-2013, 11:35 PM

Bonnie,
Mirtazapine is used with humans too. I hope that it works for Pia!

spdd

08-10-2013, 07:10 AM

Hi Bonnie... reading your post I didn't know until now about Mirtazapine - I'll do some reading on this and possibly get it for Keesh.

I sure understand the comment about getting on the same wavelength and of course being frustrated. I live with that daily. I wish there was a Cushings Hospital somewhere, where that's all they treat for dogs.

goldengirl88

08-10-2013, 08:11 AM

Wow you have a lot to consider here. I know I use Periactin for my cat that won't eat. I works very well. He only needs 1/4 of a 10mg pill to make him eat. I would not even consider letting a student put in a feeding tube, even if they were allowed. Can you get some baby food, suck it up in a larger syringe and feed it that way to Pia? I have done that many times with a sick animal and the baby food goes into the syringe well. I am glad they are trying to reach your Dr. Hope Pia perks up for the weekend. Blessings
Patti

addy

08-10-2013, 08:25 AM

Pia's pre and post ACTH results were 4.1 pre and 4.9 post, so they said she needs more trilostane

I'm curious as to why they want Pia on a higher dose with these stim numers- because she is still having symptoms? Or did they tell you they are aiming for a specific lower range? I'm just curious about there thinking.:)

knitbunnie

08-10-2013, 10:18 AM

I'm curious as to why they want Pia on a higher dose with these stim numers- because she is still having symptoms? Or did they tell you they are aiming for a specific lower range? I'm just curious about there thinking.:)

I wish I knew. I think it's because of her ongoing, full blown symptoms, but they want her to stay on her current dose until they track down Dr. Feldman in the jungles of Guatemala. There's been a discussion of giving it to her 3 times a day.

I started her Pia's Diary yesterday, and in one day, she had two floor puddles and 11 trips out to the outside pee spot. I've put her in a bathroom at night with puppy pads the last two nights because she pees at night, too, and doesn't wake me up. I will call the pharmacy as soon as they open to see if Pia's prescription is ready. Maybe getting the UTI taken care of will alleviate some of the urination.

Patti - I agree on the Periactin. We used it a lot when I was working at a children's hospital, especially on our chemo kids. I've suggested it to the docs at Davis and have had no luck getting them to try it for Pia. I'll try the increased dose of mirtazipine. It can't hurt and I have it here.

AND LATER - I went to the pharmacy to pick up Pia's amoxicillin (I didn't call first because I had some other errands to run) and it wasn't there, and this was after a call from the vet this morning stating that they were calling it in. One of the pharmacists had notes on a phone call from Davis, but they didn't have the right dose of pills. So, I called Davis' emergency number (today is Saturday, so that's all they have) and they put me through to the vet who said they could mail me the pills. Meanwhile, my Pia is having accidents in the house, has to be confined to a bathroom at night, and is miserable, and I'm supposed to wait for them to mail them to me (at an extra $10 charge just to put them in an envelope). I was literally in tears on the phone. So, the vet at Davis called my local vet who, luckily, had hours this morning, and I picked up Pia's medicine there. Davis wants Pia to have a urine culture in a week, again in two weeks, and yet again in a month. They still haven't tracked down Dr. Feldman in the jungles of Guatemala, either, but I can't get upset about that. He's entitled to a life.

Trish

08-10-2013, 06:03 PM

knitbunnie

08-10-2013, 08:32 PM

Crikey, some of these stories make my head spin and Pia is one of them. It should not have to be such a struggle for every little thing, like your meds for example. Makes me so pissed for you and Pia.

You mentioned a few posts back about her jaw and I have said it a couple of times but that has always been at the back of my mind about your dog with you saying she appears in pain when eating. Fistula's don't just close up without getting out what was causing the problem. They may heal over the outside but the underlying problem can remain and fester. I would not even consider a feeding tube until that was well and truly investigated.

I completely agree with you on the whole jaw thing. My understanding is that foxtail seeds only go one way - forward - and if that's what it was that made the infection, where is it??? I keep mentioning that Pia seems to have pain with eating to the vets, but I seem to get nowhere. They get so focused on thinking she has IBD that needs to be investigated with a $2000.00 procedure, when all I want is a simple stomach-upward check with a scope, not biopsies, etc. I brought this up to the vets this past week (again!).

I know my dog, and I really think my dog is having pain when she eats, so she doesn't eat. They suggested that I video tape her doing this, and I ask what they'd like me to tape? Pia takes an occasional bite, then another and by then she chews it up and drops it back out because she doesn't want to swallow solids. Then she heads for the water bowl for what seems to be relief. I feel like a broken record with the vets.

Budsters Mom

08-10-2013, 09:48 PM

Sending you big hugs Bonnie. :) You should not have to work so hard for every little thing.:o Pia 's story is heartbreaking, poor thing. Xxxx

Squirt's Mom

08-11-2013, 07:49 AM

goldengirl88

08-11-2013, 08:04 AM

Leslie sure has a way with words, I love her rendition of getting postal at the vets! I hope you have gotten in contact with the Dr. and Pia will get some much needed help. They told me to tape Tipper when she was having breathing problems, so I did and quite a few Dr.'s got to review it. Just humor them and tape it, just by some slim chance maybe they will see something that sparks their brains into figuring this out. Blessings
Patti

knitbunnie

08-11-2013, 05:16 PM

If you feel the need to channel a foot-stomping, magazine-slinging crazy woman next time you talk to the vet, just let me know. :p Folks tend to get their heads out of their butts when you go postal on 'em. ;)

Sounds great. I'm signing you up, because I'm not getting anywhere with them.

When I spoke with the vet on the phone, standing at the first pharmacy, where the prescription was supposed to be but wasn't, I had a major meltdown on the phone. I was distraught and crying, and that was probably the wrong thing to do, but I couldn't help myself. Having been watching Pia pee and pee and pee, in obvious distress and since Monday, took its toll on my psyche. Today, she's having less frequency, and seems more comfortable. It's amazing what 24 hours on an appropriate antibiotic can do for a UTI.

She has eaten a couple bites of food that I've offered her today, but she heads straight for the water bowl each time. It's the same routine every time - she takes one or two pieces of food and by the third one she mouths it and drops it and heads for the water. I can't leave food out all the time for grazing because our other dog is a complete chowhound so I am aware of every bite Pia takes.

My husband was supposed to be away in Wyoming for another 2 weeks for work, but he got to come home a week early, so he came home Saturday night. I melted into a complete puddle of tears again when he walked in the door and gave me a hug. He is not used to a cry-baby for a wife, so he understood the depth of my furor and angst.

I am also a bit annoyed at the vets for telling me they were going to put Pia on amoxicillin, which as a nurse, I know is a very readily available drug. I sent so many kids home on amoxicillin suspension that I couldn't begin to count. The whole prescription thing could have been avoided if they'd have said, "We're putting her on Clavamox." It's amoxicillin AND clavulinate potassium. It is not JUST amoxicillin! That's like telling someone you're giving them milk and then handing them a glass of chocolate milk, instead. GRRRR!!!

doxiesrock912

08-11-2013, 05:38 PM

Bonnie,

I would've insisted on the Clavamox. Remember, these vets work for you and Pia. Not the other way around.

I'm glad to hear that she's improving.

knitbunnie

08-11-2013, 06:00 PM

Bonnie,

I would've insisted on the Clavamox. Remember, these vets work for you and Pia. Not the other way around.

I'm glad to hear that she's improving.

I'm sorry - I think I need to clarify here. I am still so upset that I probably wasn't clear on the whole thing. The vet kept telling me they were putting her on amoxicillin, (several times in three different phone conversations) which I questioned and said, "Why not Clavamox?" She reiterated that it was amoxicillin and said I could get it at the local big-box pharmacy. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

That's why the idiot vet couldn't get it dispensed from KMart Pharmacy, and she didn't bother to call me back to tell me they didn't have Clavamox after telling me she was calling in Pia's ampicillin prescription. I could have told her that I'd have to get Clavamox at the vet's office. Clavamox isn't simply amoxicillin, as just about all of us here know.

You can't just call one drug by another name. The vet gave me some bullshit story about how veterinary ampicillin is different from human ampicillin. No, it's not. It's the same darned thing, but if you add clavulinate potassium then it is a different thing, it's Clavamox!

Have I totally confused everyone? Going postal sounds better and better!

molly muffin

08-11-2013, 08:51 PM

Oh I do hate it when they want to blow smoke up you, like you don't understand something and then they don't even tell it right. sheezzzz
Would an xray show where the foxtail seed might have gone too? Would it show anything in the jaw area specifically? You can Ask for one if it would show something. Don't just tell them what you think the problem might be, but suggest what they should do too. Sometimes it isn't enough to let them make the call for what needs to be done.
You know Pia better than they do and if it appears that her jaw hurts and she is pain when she tries to eat, then I'd go with that.

Go postal is you need to. LOL
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

08-12-2013, 05:31 PM

Dr. Bonadio, Pia's main vet called today with answers to some questions I emailed her. We are going to go straight to a month of Clavamox and skip doing two of the urine cultures. Yeah!

Since Pia continues to have such heavy water intake and urination, we're going to try DDAVP (desmopressin) tablets. We're going to continue to give her mirtazapine since she showed a little interest in food yesterday and the day before. A few bites here and there are better than no bites! No word from Dr. Feldman who is still in the jungle in Guatemala, so we'll continue with twice a day trilostane for now.

Pia was thoroughly reviewed today at UC Davis' full staff meeting, and the general consensus is that she most likely has a macro-tumor. We've come to a meeting of the minds on things between us and Davis. We're going to continue what we're doing for a month and then take the long, hard look at things. If the downhill slide continues, we're going to set up the world's greatest hospice for Pia here at home. I will not have my Pia suffer, and when it's time to go, it will be time and she will let us know. If she's not getting worse, we'll have a feeding tube placed in September, and until then I'll shovel food into her three times a day, as long as she tolerates it.

My poor vet has had a rough time lately, too. She wasn't able to see Pia on her last visit because of an emergency. Sadly, her dear dog was letting her know that it was time, and so her pup crossed the bridge that day. She is truly fond of Pia, so this is hard on her, too.

Budsters Mom

08-12-2013, 06:40 PM

knitbunnie

08-12-2013, 10:55 PM

Buddy had a macro-tumor. My heart goes out to you and sweet little Pia. You are an awesome mom Bonnie. :)Pia knows that you are doing everything in your power to help her and she loves you so much! Yes, she will let you know when it's time. Until then, she couldn't be in better hands. Thoughts and prayers headed you way.
Big hugs,

You and Buddy were in my thoughts as I wrote about Pia's probable macro-tumor. You were so darned good to Buddy, doing everything you could for him. You are my role model to get through this terrible time.

doxiesrock912

08-12-2013, 11:04 PM

Bonnie,

ok - everything makes more sense now and I'm glad that the vets have finally rallied around you and Pia instead of having to argue with them all of the time.
Yippee for that victory!

Macro tumor :( Poo

Hopefully Pia will continue to eat more and more on the Mirtazapine. For humans, our appetite mechanism is reset when we don't eat properly. I wonder if this happens with dogs too?

I'm so happy that you have a viable plan to keep Pia at home and comfortable. Home is the best place to be <3

HUGS

molly muffin

08-12-2013, 11:07 PM

Oh Pia. Oh Bonnie. I know you'll get through this. I'm sorry though that this is the consensus. It's one of those things that I think is always in the back of our minds and we hope we never hear it, but there it is, always a possibility. There usually just isn't way to really know without expensive MRI's.
So, not a problem with a soreness of the jaw?

Hang in there. You're doing everything possible for Pia

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Budsters Mom

08-12-2013, 11:44 PM

Bonnie,
Thank you so much for your very sweet comment. :pIt was very touching. I am by no means a role model. I am just a mom who did the very best I could. I did not get through it alone. I had a heavenly flock of angels guiding me every step of the way and holding me together. I had 24 hour angel service for several days. Angels staying with me for hours on end, overlapping night and day shifts, so that I was never left alone. Our heavenly angels are the true role models. :):p I will never be able to be repay them or truly thank them for what they did for me, so I'm trying to pay it forward now.

We are all here for you now. A probable macro SUCKS! There is nothing good about it! :o it's okay to get mad, cry, throw things, beat up on people you don't like;), whatever you need to do. Know that we will be with you every step of your and Pia's journey. If there is anything that you want to ask me. I will do my very best to answer. Xxxx

Trish

08-13-2013, 06:06 AM

Hi - I would be careful using the desmopressin, that can really mess up electrolytes, especially when the patient is sick to start with. I know you keep a very careful eye on Pia, but I think it would be worth checking electrolytes after a few days to make sure they are ok. Especially low sodium as you do not want anything else going out of whack.

They cannot definitely know it is a macro without imaging, so I still think they are pulling things out the air for Pia. I still cannot get out my mind the pain that you describe when she eats. I know when Flynn had a sore mouth with his ulcers, he would kind of bite a few times then drop the food which was what alerted to me of pain in his mouth too. I hope she picks up Bonnie, am with you on the amoxil/augmentin muckup... soo frustrating :mad:

goldengirl88

08-13-2013, 08:02 AM

Bonnie:
I am so sorry to hear about all this with Pia. I know that Trish is guiding you and is 100% right. You either have to have her scanned or you will not know for sure if it is a macro tumor, that is the only true way of knowing. My heart goes out to you. In the back of my mind I keep questioning all this stuff with these Dr.'s though. I don't know how you feel about getting her a scan, but if she cannot eat and you are not sure what is wrong, before I would take a drastic step with my dog, you would have to give me 100% proof positive that she has a macro. I am sorry you are in this terrible position. God Bless You and Pia
Patti

Squirt's Mom

08-13-2013, 09:23 AM

Hi Bonnie,

I'm with Trish here....plus I am wondering about lingering effects from her stroke that may be leading them to the thought of a macro. If I were you, I would make them take that into consideration AND force them to pursue the jaw/mouth possibility before accepting this without a MRI.

Squirt's mouth has not been right since her seizure and she has some personality changes since then as well as appetite/digestive issues - BUT they ALL go back to that incident and no farther back. If someone told me they thought she had a macro it would scare the crap outta me....then I probably tell them to go jump in a lake because there are no other signs to support that and nothing clinical to support that. ;)

Valarie asked something - if dog's appetite mechanism can be reset like humans when we don't eat for a while. According to our vet, yes - that was a concern with Tasha so we talked about it. He said this can happen plus they can get their vomiting mechanism stuck and not be able to stop - both were concerns for Tasha's future. There are meds to help both situations and the appetite stimulant they gave Pia may have that potential - I don't know but I would ask.

Another thought - have you heard about the human weight loss trick of keeping full with water to keep the appetite tamped down? Not sure how effective it is as a weight loss method, but water does make one feel full. If she does have DI, then the exorbitant amounts of water she drinks could be making her feel as if she had eaten, she's STUFFED with water, so her appetite isn't stimulated normally. "I'm full, Mom! Couldn't eat another bite!" The dex will help her body process the water normally which could bring her appetite back some - hopefully anyway.

So, in my mind, there are still way too many unknowns to start talking about a macro just yet. I think we all hold this thought and others in the back of our minds and often find ourselves looking for signs that may never exist simply because we are afraid. Then when someone we look to as an expert voices one of these thoughts, it becomes so real - whether it is or not. ;) So for right now, don't let this get to you. As far as I am concerned, Pia has started a NEW diagnostic process and there are too many other possibilities that exist to jump to a macro just yet.

Hugs and belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

scoora

08-13-2013, 09:36 AM

Bonnie,
I'm so sorry the doctors might think Pia has a macro. I have been down this road so I know how you feel. Scoop was picky and very strange with his eating then, like Pia, he would head off to the water dish and drink so much water. Scoop had 2 MRI's. One in Nov and one at the end of May before he had his Cyberknife treatment. I thought for sure the tumor was the cause of his eating problems but the neurologist said he couldn't be sure but he didn't think so. We were hoping with time the tumor would shrink and his eating would get better. I'll never know now. After Scoop passed I asked the IMS if his pickiness could be from problems with his organs, she said it could be. I wish these doctors would have explained that to me months ago when his pickiness first started. I might have started checking into that when it first started. I just had it in my head it was the tumor and it could have been. The only thing is, after Scooped passed, I asked the IMS if she thought she would have been able to figure out what his problem was, she said she didn't think so. I don't know. Pia's eating, or lack of it, seems different than what Scoop's was but what bothers me is the whole water thing. When I would say something to the GP vet it was like well his diabetes isn't controlled or he's not on his cushing's medicine. UGH! Every time after he would he something he had to have a big drink of water. I think it was more than his diabetes or cushing's with the water thing. It just seemed that way to me. Scoop had a feeding tube put in the day he had his radiation treatment. They said that way it would give us time to see if the tumor would shrink and make a difference or time to figure things out. Well Scoop didn't have much time after that for us to figure anything out.
I hope you can get things figured out for Pia. My heart goes out to you. It is so tough and frustrating when the doctors aren't sure about things. You just want them to help your baby get better.
Big hugs

knitbunnie

08-14-2013, 11:32 AM

Pia and I are going to see the holistic vet on Saturday for a big evaluation and probably some acupuncture. I wish I could afford the $2400.00 for an MRI to truly diagnose if it is or isn't a macro-tumor, but I absolutely cannot. I wish it wasn't so.

When Pia had her stroke, she'd get acupuncture and feel so darned good afterward. At this point, that 's all I can wish for Pia - some good days. I watch her and I can see that she's getting neuro signs. She hovers over her water bowl and stares and stares before she drinks. Her coordination was never great after the stroke, but it's definitely declining. She shakes and quivers worse than ever when she's asleep, but on a good note, since I switched her diet to exclusively homemade blended up lean beef and baby oatmeal, she is not getting the painful bloating she used to have.

I noticed that a number of members here have given their dogs L-Glutamine for GI tract healing, so we've started that. I don't want to Pia to be uncomfortable.

I need to further investigate the ramifications of giving DDAVP. If I could give her just one dose in the evening to get her through the night accident-free, I wonder if that would be ok. I hate to have to shut her in a bathroom at night. She doesn't' like it, either.

Budsters Mom

08-14-2013, 01:26 PM

They wanted $3000-3500 for an MRI for Buddy. I didn't have it either:o There was no point in doing it anyway. I wasn't going to opt for expensive radiation and surgery was not an option. It is what it is.

A CT scan would be a less expensive option to verify a tumor. It wouldn't be as thorough, but it should show if there is one and show the approximate size.

Buddy never had any eating issues. He ate happily and heartily to the end. His stomach did get upset due to all of his medications, but he never stopped eating. SEB helped out with that.

Thinking of you and sending prayers and healing energy your way.

knitbunnie

08-15-2013, 03:18 AM

My sweet Pia went to heaven tonight. This evening, she suddenly got super bloated and was obviously in pain, so I called the vets office and we made an emergency visit. The tech x-rayed her immediately, and our vet came out and gave us the horrible news. My poor Pia had stomach torsion, and so we made the terrible but necessary decision that she needed to be happy and pain-free across the bridge. There is no way we would have made Pia suffer through surgery that she probably would not have survived. We stroked her soft little head and her beautiful ears and told her how much we loved her as she fell asleep one last time.

What made it all the more difficult is that Pia had had such a good day today. This morning, I was sewing downstairs, and she wanted to go out onto the deck. She somehow escaped from the deck on our lower level. How she got the gate open is still a mystery. She managed to get up the hill, around the garage, and was standing at the front door, so proud of her accomplishment. We were overjoyed and we rejoiced that she'd found the energy to do it.

In the afternoon, at around 4 o'clock, for the first time in a long time, she ate over half her meal by herself. I hugged her and kissed her and told her what a good girl she was to make me so happy.

At about 6:30, she had a regular-looking bowel movement, and at about 8 pm, she did some retching, like she was going to be sick. We noticed that she looked a little bloated, nothing new with Pia, but shortly after that we could tell this wasn't her ordinary bloat. I called the vet, we met her at the office, and at around 9:30, Pia crossed the bridge.

Trish

08-15-2013, 03:42 AM

Oh no, I am so sorry you had to say goodbye to beautiful Pia. But what a girl eh!! Has her best day in ages, did a Houdini to get out to sniff about and explore, had her dinner and then it was decided it was her time to cross the bridge! I think as far as last days go hers was pretty good, except for the last couple of hours. So pleased you were home with her and to get her seen so fast, but such a hard decision to make when you and her have been fighting so hard. You did the right thing of course.... Big hugs for you tonight xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Budsters Mom

08-15-2013, 04:12 AM

I'm am so sorry Bonnie:o Buddy and the gang were at the bridge to greet sweet Pia. I'm sure he was flashing his very best smile. We are here for you. Please come back and talk with us when you're feeling up to it. It helps, it really does. Sending you ton of love and hugs tonight. Xxxxxxx

spdd

08-15-2013, 05:40 AM

Oh Bonnie. I am so sorry to come on here this morning and read about Pia.
Of course you made the right decision, but that doesn't help with the grief you must be feeling.
Pia had a great day, so please take comfort in that. You and Pia fought hard together.

Sending you lots of love and hugs.

Robert

08-15-2013, 06:46 AM

So sorry for your loss. Praying for pia on his journey and you.

goldengirl88

08-15-2013, 07:10 AM

Bonnie:
I am so sorry to come on here this morning to find out Pia has crossed the bridge. She has no more pain or worries now. My heart goes out to you. Please take care of yourself. Blessings
Patti

frijole

08-15-2013, 07:26 AM

Bonnie, Wow what a surprise. I'm sorry and have no doubts you did what was best for Pia as you always did. May she run free of pain as our newest angel in heaven. Know we will always honor her memory here. Bless you. Kim

Squirt's Mom

08-15-2013, 08:02 AM

Oh, Bonnie,

This is not what any of us wanted to hear and I know your heart is just shattered. To fight as hard and as long as you and Pia have only to have this happen, something we can seldom fight against. As difficult as this was, I think you made the only decision you could and I am sure our sweet Pia is grateful.

I am glad you were given the gift of a good day yesterday with Pia and hope it will help sustain you in the coming days. As bittersweet as that is today, in time the memories from yesterday will become most cherished with the power to calm you and bring a smile to your face through the tears.

You know we are here for you, honey. Please talk to us any time. You and Pia have become so special to so many here and we care about you.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Sophie and our Angels, Ruby, Crystal, Tasha and Josie

See You Soon
by Luka Bloom

I hope I love you enough to let you go
On the road only you can see
I hope I love you enough to let you go
And loosen the hold that you have on me

I want to bless you on your way
Say always to yourself be true
I hope you know there is no sweeter place in the world
Than the places I have been with you

See you soon, see you soon

The weakness in me fills my heart with fear
Telling me to control and try to keep you here
The spirit in me that's what is good and true
Telling me to be strong, and trust the letting go of you

See you soon, see you soon

The road waits patiently before you
Away you go now
Don't even look behind
Fill yourself with riches from the times we knew
I'll keep your goodness here
In my heart and in my mind

See you soon, see you soon

I hope I love you enough to let you go...

bgdavis

08-15-2013, 08:09 AM

I'm so sorry for the loss of Pia. She is free of pain. Sometimes we fight so hard to combat an illness only to be taken by surprise when something unexpected comes along. Pia had a great last day and will have a great time waiting for you at the Bridge.

Bonnie and Angel Criss Ann

Jenny & Judi in MN

08-15-2013, 09:46 AM

I'm so sorry for the loss of your very well loved Pia. Judi

molly muffin

08-15-2013, 10:26 AM

So, very sorry to hear this news.

My condolences to you and your family.

Pia was well loved and will live on always in your heart.

hugs,
Sharlene

Woodydog

08-15-2013, 10:43 AM

So sorry for your lose big hugs to you

Budsters Mom

08-15-2013, 12:22 PM

More hugs and love today. Xxxxx

Junior's Mom

08-15-2013, 03:08 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss. Pia was very lucky to have you in her life.

Harley PoMMom

08-15-2013, 03:26 PM

Dearest Bonnie,

I am so terribly sorry for your loss of sweet Pia and my heart goes out to you and your family.

Many huge consoling hugs are being sent your way.

With Heartfelt Sympathy,
Lori

scoora

08-15-2013, 05:22 PM

Bonnie,
I am so very sorry to hear about the loss of your sweet Pia.
It breaks my heart to hear this news. I do know how you are feeling.
Love, hugs and prayers sent your way.

Mel-Tia

08-15-2013, 07:20 PM

Bonnie

I to am so sorry for your sudden loss of sweet Pia

Hugs

Mel and my Angel Tia
Xxxxx

doxiesrock912

08-15-2013, 09:55 PM

Oh Bonnie,

my sincere condolences to you and your family! What a shock!

Pia is now pain free and she had you with her until the end.

HUGS

Roxee's Dad

08-15-2013, 10:54 PM

I am so very sorry for your loss. My heart hurts for you.

Rest in Peace sweet girl..... Tonight you are our newest and brightest star in the sky ...........

Trixie

08-16-2013, 01:38 AM

I am so very sorry to read the news of Pia's passing. I have been following her story and all you have gone through. You never gave up doing everything you could for her.

Barbara

goldengirl88

08-16-2013, 12:18 PM

Hope you are doing ok and taking care of yourself. I am thinking of you and sweet Pia. Blessings
Patti

Boriss McCall

08-16-2013, 02:38 PM

Bonnie..
I am so sorry to read this about your sweet baby Pia. It makes me so sad. Hugs to you..

addy

08-16-2013, 03:19 PM

Dear Bonnie, I read the news about Pia and it took awhile for me to be able to come here to tell you how very sorry I am. I may not have posted to you but I followed your journey with Pia every day.

No words can ease the pain you feel now and I don't have any adequate to say only how very sorry I am for the way things turned out.

Much love and hugs and prayers to you.

BostonLover

08-16-2013, 04:19 PM

I am so sorry for your loss.

Hugs

Budsters Mom

08-16-2013, 08:08 PM

More hugs and love today.:p xxxxx

Sabre's Mum

08-16-2013, 08:23 PM

Bonnie ... I am so sorry for your loss. Fly free dearest Pia.

Angela

knitbunnie

08-17-2013, 05:02 PM

Thank you all so much for your love and your caring messages. When is this going to get easier? It's so darned hard. My heart aches every minute, every second. I miss Pia so much.

knitbunnie

08-17-2013, 05:48 PM

My dear son, Thomas, is just about as upset as I am about Pia. We called him from the vet's office because he has been so worried about her. He's doing an internship in Idaho this summer and it's been tough on him knowing how sick she's been. He changed his Facebook picture to this one of Pia, and it shows how beautiful she will always be in our hearts.

https://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/542224_10103330605935925_1260099710_n.jpg

Budsters Mom

08-17-2013, 05:52 PM

Give yourself time Dear Bonnie. My heart still aches for Buddy as much as ever. There is no time limit on grief. You will get through this. Keep talking. It helps.

Many, many hugs,

Budsters Mom

08-17-2013, 05:54 PM

Thanks for sharing your son's Facebook photo. Such a beautiful girl:) xxxx

Harley PoMMom

08-17-2013, 07:45 PM

What a wonderful picture of such a beautiful girl.

Tons of consoling and loving hugs being sent to you and your family, Lori

scoora

08-17-2013, 08:26 PM

Sending lots of hugs.
What a beautiful picture of Pia.

molly muffin

08-17-2013, 09:58 PM

Pia is beautiful and always will be. She lives in your memories of her. Remember her has happy and playful and loving, as she was.
I wish grief had a time limit on it, so you could just do it, and it would be over. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that and when you are spending every minute of every day for the longest time, only thinking of taking care someone, something, of doing everything to make things better. The hole that is left, is a pretty big one, add that to the pain of losing a love in your life and it seems unbearable sometimes.
Know that we are here, just as we have always been and you can come at any time and just "talk" to us. We all understand and wish we could take the pain away for you. Each one of us would if we could.
love,
Sharlene

MagicsMom

08-18-2013, 12:25 AM

Oh Bonnie. I'm so sorry to hear about Pia. I am so proud of you and inspired by your strength. She made it clear it was time for her to go and you were strong enough to give her that gift of peace.

I'm sorry for all you and Pia had to endure and know she will be watching over you and is now out of pain.
Hopefully, knowing you did what was best for Pia will help ease the pain and get you through this.

Hugs,

Karen (and Magic)

doxiesrock912

08-18-2013, 01:10 AM

Bonnie that picture of Pia is so precious! I can see the love in her eyes!

On October 6th it will be 2 years since my mother passed away. Little things, places, and events still make me cry. Sometimes I still replay the last moments of her life in my mind too but the happy memories are outnumbering those times.

It takes time sweetie and everyone has their own way of getting through. It's all part of the healing process.

Hugs and prayers dear.

knitbunnie

08-20-2013, 05:16 PM

It's been tough around here this past week. My husband and I seem to take turns crying our eyes out. I cannot believe how hard this has been.

To make matters worse, we went to our grandson's 1st birthday party on Sunday and took Maggie, our elderly Boston Terrier, along. Someone else brought their gigantic, crabby part Rottweiler named Blaze along and for no reason, he attacked poor, old Maggie. She has a very sore ear that bled a lot, and she has been completely traumatized by the whole thing.

Thing is, this is my daughter's sister-in-law's dog, and Blaze has attacked my daughter's Australian Shepherd a few times, too. I cannot believe they brought Blaze to a party with a bunch of little kids running around. My daughter has politely tried to let them know Blaze is really not welcome, but it falls on deaf ears. My daughter worries about the miserable dog around her little boy. He's just starting to walk, and you know how little ones are. My daughter, unfortunately, is afraid to make waves with her husband's family, but I think this last incident may have given her some backbone, at least according to one of my sons who witnessed the attack and is also super upset by the whole thing.

Maggie has been restless two nights in a row. Last night she paced and paced and paced, and because she's blind, she walks into the walls and then she bumps her sore ear and yips. Maybe I should ask the vet for a sleeping pill :) She hasn't wanted to eat, either, which is completely out of character for her. Right now, she's sleeping as peacefully as she has since Sunday.

I spoke with the vet's office today. It was a tough call, but I wanted to know when we could pick up Pia's ashes. The secretary said she cried when she saw Pia's folder on the desk the morning after she died. Then we both started crying. Everyone who ever met her loved Pia.

Squirt's Mom

08-20-2013, 05:29 PM

Oh, Bonnie! That is scary about Maggie being attacked! And like you I would be worried about the dog around my grandchild...and mad as all get out! I hope her ear heals soon and she is feeling less upset about this very soon. This on top of grieving for her buddy has got to be hard on all of you. :( I'm so sorry.

I had a meltdown this morning leaving the gas station when I saw the scratch marks Crys put on the truck door. It's been three years this past June and it still hits me out of the blue at times. Friends have offered to fix the paint for me but I don't want it "fixed" - it's perfect just as it is. Sometimes seeing the marks still makes me cry but more times they make me smile now. I know the time will come for you and your hubby when the smiles are as easy as the tears. Grieve as you need for as long as you need. Pia is showering you all with her love and gratitude.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

molly muffin

08-20-2013, 06:10 PM

oh my gosh, how scary and horrible. Why would you have a dog that can attack around other animals and kids. That is just really Not cool and to even ignore your daughters concerns is just insensitive.
Hopefully Maggie will get past this and be just fine, but I'm sure it's even more scary to be attacked when you are blind and not a clue as to why.
What a day that must have been for you.
Some days it must feel like there are no more tears left on earth. I know that feeling.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

frijole

08-20-2013, 07:59 PM

I was wondering how you were doing... sending love. Instead of a sleeping pill you might try melatonin - all natural and at any drugstore. They aren't narcotic so less strong but they just take the chill off and allow sleep. My dogs weighed around 17 lbs and took one 3 mg tablet. Give a bit before bedtime. Also great for dogs afraid of storms and fireworks. Sending hugs to you and yours, Kim

scoora

08-20-2013, 08:46 PM

Bonnie, I'm sorry your heart is breaking. I know how you are feeling.

I hope Maggie will be feeling better real soon.

HUGS

doxiesrock912

08-20-2013, 09:34 PM

Oh no Bonnie!!!
How selfish and completely irresponsible of those people to bring a dog known to attack! As for your daughter being afraid to address this issue, she shouldn't have to. Why doesn't her husband say something?

Do they realize that they can be sued and their dog would be euthanized if this behavior continues to be a problem or escalates?

I personally just wouldn't invite them to anymore functions since they disregard the safety of everyone else. If they have a problem with this then I would tell them that the safety of my family is clearly not as important to them as it is to me.

Lots of hugs to you and Maggie. Poor thing.

Simba's Mom

08-20-2013, 10:03 PM

So sorry to hear that your precious Pia crossed the bridge, no more pain only happy times for her now...I understand how you are feeling, it sucks, I just got mad at first when Sim died then I cried for days and still do today, every once in awhile the tears flow....sending hugs and prayers for you Bonnie, I bet Simba looked twice when he saw that cute little face of hers, she's a beauty...here for you...

Budsters Mom

08-20-2013, 10:32 PM

I am so sorry about sweet Maggie. Some people just don't think. Still no excuse!:mad: I hope her ear heals fast.

Regarding Pia. Grieving takes time. We understand that. We love our fur babies so deeply. Do whatever it is that you need to do to feel better and don't worry about what anyone else thinks. Please keep talking, it helps. Xxxxxx

Bo's Mom

08-21-2013, 10:40 PM

RIP Angel Pia. You will be dearly missed by everyone who had the pleasure of loving you.

knitbunnie

08-22-2013, 03:00 AM

It's been a week, and my heart still aches so much. I miss my little Pia more than I could ever imagine.

Budsters Mom

08-22-2013, 03:14 AM

Dear Bonnie,
It has only been a week. Give yourself some time. as much as you need. We love our babies with our whole hearts. Our hearts need time to heal. I lost Buddy 7 weeks ago and I still ache for him. I don't think we ever get over losing our babies, we just learn to live without them. It's sometimes one minute at a time. Then an hour. Then a day. You do what you can do. Whatever that is at the time is right for you. Keep talking and sharing your grief. It does help. We are here for you.
Big loving hugs my dear,

gatorgirl_bama

08-22-2013, 12:00 PM

knitbunnie

08-22-2013, 03:13 PM

Bonnie,
I just wanted to say I'm so sorry about Pia. You know I feel the same heartache as you. I have to believe that both of our babies, Tia and Pia, are playing together pain free.

Prayers for you and Maggie.

Thank you. Yes, we are in about the same place, and it's nice to think of Tia and Pia romping around together, happy and waiting for the day we'll see them again.

We picked up Pia's ashes at the vet's office this morning. That was just another gut-wrenching time.

scoora

08-22-2013, 05:35 PM

Bonnie,
Big Hugs

Harley PoMMom

08-22-2013, 08:49 PM

Sending huge and loving hugs, Bonnie.

molly muffin

08-22-2013, 09:51 PM

Thinking of you and sending you lots of love and hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

08-23-2013, 07:06 PM

Another tough day, and kind of a weird one.

1. A box arrived with no note, addressed to Pia and Maggie from BarkBox.com. I called them and found that it had been ordered a month and a half ago by our dear youngest son.

2. An hour later, the dog warden called to tell me that a dog had been found that belonged to me. That, I knew, was not possible, because Pia's ashes are on my mantel, and Maggie was asleep in her bed. They found a dog that was wearing Pia's dog tag, but I have Pia's dog tag and I read the number to him, including the year. It was the same number, same year.

3. An hour later, I found one of Pia's pills in the middle of the floor. It was one of the pills I used to give her for gas, and I could tell that it was one I'd given her and that she'd spit it out when I wasn't looking. It was in my laundry room that I walk through at least 3-4 times a day.

Too many things to make me cry today.

Squirt's Mom

08-23-2013, 07:12 PM

Sweetheart, it sounds to me as if Pia is doing everything but punching you in the nose to let you know she's still with you, right by your side. ;)

knitbunnie

08-23-2013, 08:13 PM

Sweetheart, it sounds to me as if Pia is doing everything but punching you in the nose to let you know she's still with you, right by your side. ;)

I love you for saying that. Thank you ♥♥♥

Roxee's Dad

08-23-2013, 08:21 PM

Wow, that is amazing. She may be in heaven part time, but definitely she is right there with you the rest of the time. She knows you are not ready to let go and is trying to take the sadness away by telling you she is okay and still full of mischief.

(((HUGS)))

doxiesrock912

08-23-2013, 10:50 PM

Pia is worried about you. She's pain free but sees that you aren't and is trying to make you feel better <3

molly muffin

08-25-2013, 07:51 PM

Holy Wow!! That is a lot of wows, happening over there. Pia must have been very strong willed, she definitely is getting her point across. :)

You will Always have Pia, maybe not physically but between your heart where she lives forever and her making sure that you are taken care of yourself, she will just always be there with you.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Simba's Mom

08-25-2013, 08:17 PM

Sending hugs and prayers, what alot of stuff going on at your house, Pia is visiting I would say.....

knitbunnie

08-27-2013, 04:28 PM

We miss our Pia every single day, and I cry every day, and at this point, I don't care. It is what it is. Someone sent me a beautiful quote, and I'm going to share it here -

“We who choose to surround ourselves with lives even more temporary than our own, live within a fragile circle, easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps, we would still live no other way.” Irving Townsend

I still cannot find peace and come to grips with the loss, but I wouldn't have wanted to give up one minute with Pia.

We've talked about getting another dog. Our little Maggie really misses her best buddy, too. Last night, for the first time since Pia died, Maggie slept through the night. She's old and blind, but she has definitely felt the loss. I think my husband would rush right out and get another pup, but I'm not ready, not yet. I cannot replace Pia. I know that, and if we got another dog now, that's what it would be. It wouldn't be fair to do that to another dog, and I don't think it would be fair to Pia's memory, either. I need to wait a while, mourn as best I can, and when the time is right, get another dog to honor my Pia and not just to replace her.

molly muffin

08-27-2013, 05:59 PM

Hi Bonnie and big hugs.

This is still such a fresh pain, the kind that just cuts deep to the heart. The good thing is that it is in your heart that Pia will live forever. It's okay to not be ready yet for another dog. No matter when you do get another dog though, it will in no way be a replacement for Pia, not now, not a year from now. It won't act like Pia or change your feelings in any way. I know that you know that. It's just that even if it feels like that is what you'd be doing, it isn't and never can be. You can only look on it as you will be opening your home to another little dog that needs a forever place to call their own and someone to care for them and love them. Whenever it is, that dog will be so lucky to have found you.

It takes whatever time it takes. When you're ready, you'll know it, maybe in the least expected sort of way. Those always seem to be the best don't they. When it just happens, then the time is right. Maybe Pia herself will let you know. Stranger things in this world have happened. :)

For now, you do what you can do to get through each day. It's hard, we say this time and time again, but when they have cushings, or something else going on that requires constant emotional connection and attention, then the hole that is left seems to be even bigger. It's not one that fills easily that is for sure. You spend 24/7 taking care of this precious little soul, that it is just all consuming. Give yourself that time to adjust. I am sure that Maggie is going through the same thing, poor baby. She too will have better days and nights eventually.

In the meantime, I've said it many time, we really have to have some major investment in kleenex stock. I'm sure we keep them in business. :)

big hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

doxiesrock912

08-28-2013, 01:32 AM

Bonnie,

I know how you feel and it's a good idea to wait. You'll know when you're ready to add to your family again.

We had a miniature poodle named Miskit who was two months away from 18 human years in age when we had to help her cross the bridge. My niece and I knew that we would share our lives with another dog but we gave ourselves time and when we met Daisy - the choice was obvious for us and her!

To this day, I have never felt that I replaced Miskit. Not once.

gatorgirl_bama

08-28-2013, 03:38 PM

Oh Bonnie,
I so feel your pain. Now that Tia is gone, Tippi who is almost 16, has started following us around constantly. In the kitchen, bathroom, laundry room, where ever we are. It has really affected Tank the 2yo the most. He is still searching for her and it breaks my heart.
My husband is like yours. Three days after Tia passed he mentioned that we needed to get another dog. He said it was for Tank because Tippi is so much older and we probably don't have that much longer with her. I said no, that I wasn't going to "replace" Tia. That's what it would feel like to me and I'm not ready. And Tippi is in great health to be an "old lady"!
Anyway, just wanted to say how sorry I am about Pia and you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Donna

knitbunnie

09-14-2013, 03:30 AM

Today, it's been a month, and my heart is still so broken. Yesterday, I had to go to the vet's office for pills for Maggie, and all I could think of was my last moments there with Pia. It was awful.

We've talked about getting another Frenchie, but there is no way I'm ready for that. My husband thinks that if we get another dog, I'll stop crying, but that just makes me feel worse and worse. I can't bring myself to put away her thing. I miss her so much.

goldengirl88

09-14-2013, 07:23 AM

I know how you feel. Tipper has not been well the last week and all I do is cry when I look at her. God help you to get thru this. Blessings
Patti

Squirt's Mom

09-14-2013, 08:16 AM

Hi Bonnie,

A month is such a very short time. I am impressed you can get out of bed to even talk to us - I'm not sure I will be able to do that well. So many people, even some who lived through everything with us, simply do not understand the depth of this pain and loss. They think we should just say - ok, that one's gone, time to move on and get another dog. They do not understand we lost our baby, our child, a huge part of our lives and heart. Grieve as long as you need honey. This is not a process that can be rushed nor eased with anything other than time. It's not like losing a watch. ;)

Tasha has been gone since Dec. and I still can't put all her things away. I tried but I was afraid I would forget her precious little square face so I put the last few items back out and there they remain. I have moved her medicine from cabinet to cabinet but I can't put them away nor throw them away just yet. So I look at them from time to time, remembering, then move them somewhere else if need be. There are nights I swear I hear her coming down the hall or hear her raspy breathing from the living room and my heart breaks all over again. I know these things are just her way of reminding me that she is watching over me now but it still breaks my heart. We will all heal, Bonnie. We heal in our own time and in our own way but we will heal and come out stronger than ever.

We are here anytime you need to talk. We do so understand your pain, honey, and will do anything we can to help you bear that burden til it isn't so hard to cope with.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

gatorgirl_bama

09-14-2013, 09:51 AM

Bonnie,
Just wanted to say I'm thinking about you.

Donna and Angel Tia

molly muffin

09-14-2013, 10:34 AM

Hi Bonnie, sending you great big hugs. This is such a hard time for you and I wish I could say I knew when it would end and everything would feel better. :( Unfortunately as you know, grief has no time limits put on it. It just ebbs and flows at it's own pace. Some days are worse than others and anything can trigger a heart wrenching moment. No rhyme nor reason.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

doxiesrock912

09-14-2013, 11:20 PM

Bonnie,
time does really help with grief. You'll make it. You have us and we thank you so very much for continuing to support us and our furlets!

By the way, I treated myself and ordered a Pet Care vanity plate that says "FURLETS". Hopefully, no one else has beaten me to it.

Budsters Mom

09-14-2013, 11:39 PM

Hi Bonnie,
One month is such a short time. Hearts do not heal overnight. There are no judgements here. We love our babies so much and care for their every need. This makes a very strong bond. Grieve as long as you need to and be gentle with yourself.

I lost Buddy a little over 2 months ago. I still miss him terribly and light a candle for him every day. The smallest things turn on the water works even now. I haven't been able to start a memory thread for him or tell his story yet. It is too soon for me. I keep his cuddle blanket and Froggy (stuffed friend) on my bed to reach for when I'm feeling sad at night. I don't know how long I will keep them there. I just know that I need them there for now.

Do whatever you need to do for yourself to feel better and don't care what anyone else thinks. Sending you many, many loving hugs,

goldengirl88

09-15-2013, 01:47 PM

Hope you are doing well, I wish I had a magic wand to heal your heart. Blessings
Patti

molly muffin

09-30-2013, 11:00 PM

Hi Bonnie, just poking my head in to say hello and see how you are doing.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

knitbunnie

10-07-2013, 04:50 PM

Thank you for checking up on me. It's still pretty awful, and every time I come here, I cry. I miss everyone - you are all so nice - but it's still too much for me right now. XXXOOO, Bonnie

doxiesrock912

10-07-2013, 09:56 PM

Bonnie, you do what you need to do. We're here whenever you're ready. Hugs!!!

goldengirl88

10-08-2013, 11:51 AM

Bonnie:
We all understand, and you just do what you have to. We will all be here for you. My hearts aches for you and hope you can get thru this. Blessings
Patti

Budsters Mom

10-12-2013, 03:24 AM

My Dear Bonnie,
Only time will heal your broken heart. Feel free to let your emotions out and free your tears. Slowly, ever so slowly, you'll start to heal and eventually the happy times with sweet Pia will overshadow the sad moments. Take whatever time you need. We'll be here to help in any way we can when you feel up to talking. Talking my feeling out with our angels did and continues to help me, but everyone is different of course. Big hugs Bonnie. Xxxxx

knitbunnie

10-13-2013, 01:38 AM

I appreciate it so much that you all understand how I feel. It's so hard, and I miss Pia so much.

I wanted to stop in and tell you all what my four wonderful children did for my birthday, which was yesterday. They all loved Pia and knew how devoted I was to her, and they made a donation in Pia's memory to the Morris Animal Foundation. It meant more to me than any fancy, wrapped gift. I still cry every day, but we're actually talking about getting another Frenchie. Maybe this spring, but I am still not ready.

scoora

10-13-2013, 01:56 AM

Hi Bonnie,
When Scoop passed away his vet and the staff made a donation in his memory to the Morris Animal Foundation. I too thought that was such a wonderful thing they did. Scoop's birthday was 10/7 so I sent a donation to the Morris Animal Foundation in memory of him on his birthday.

At first I couldn't think of getting another dog but slowly it happened. I have 2 new puppies in my life. They keep me very busy and I love them so much but I still think about Scoop lots of times every day. I still cry or have tears in my eyes several times a day. I still miss Scoop but I am glad I have Raleigh(almost 10 years old), Archie(4 months old)and Gus(3 months old) in my life.
Big Hugs

goldengirl88

10-13-2013, 08:32 AM

Bonnie:
I can truly appreciate how you feel. I don't think I would be able to cope either if anything happened to my Tipper. It is a shame, but we all will walk you path one day. Blessings
Patti

molly muffin

10-13-2013, 01:03 PM

That is awesome Bonnie!! Happy Belated Birthday btw. The Morris Foundation is one that finances grants for animal health care research and one of their board advisers specialty is cushings disease.
What a really, really great thing to do for you and Pia.

We do understand. We miss you, but we certainly do understand that this forum just brings it all back like a stab to the heart.

You have a really good family, very loving and compassionate.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

doxiesrock912

10-13-2013, 03:13 PM

Bonnie,
That is an awesome way to honor Pia!
No rush on another furlets, but the fact that you talk about it shows signs of healing.

Pia would not be upset, she knows that you have a lot of love to share.

Harley PoMMom

10-13-2013, 05:30 PM

That was such a wonderful way for your kids to honor sweet Pia and such a loving birthday gift...by the way...Happy belated Birthday, Bonnie!!

scoora

10-13-2013, 11:10 PM

Bonnie,
Happy belated birthday!!

Budsters Mom

10-13-2013, 11:27 PM

What a wonderful way to honor Pia and you! Your kids are keepers! ;)
Happy belated Birthday Bonnie.:p you'll know when the time is right to add a new family member. Xxxx

knitbunnie

12-03-2013, 06:10 PM

We have had some more sadness in our lives. Our little Maggie, our 15 1/5 year old Boston Terrier, crossed the Rainbow Bridge the day after Thanksgiving. We knew the day was fast approaching, but it is still tough. Looking at the dog beds and basket of dog toy, the water and food bowls, and everything else that belonged to our two girls was so hard, but I did not have the strength of heart to put them away.

To make matters worse, my husband had to go out of town, all the way to Ecuador for work, and he left Sunday evening, so I was home alone with all those things.

Last night, I knew I didn't want to be dog-less, so I started looking online, and I found a really cute puppy, a 3 month old Golden Retriever/dachshund mix named Doc, at the local SPCA. My husband called me this morning and told me he'd really like a boxer, but if I wanted the puppy, to go ahead and get it. I was headed out the door to get Doc when the phone rang and I got held up by two different phone calls, for about 45 minutes.

I drove to the SPCA and met Doc, who was sweet and adorable, and I headed to the front desk to fill out paperwork to take him home. I was nearly through with the paperwork when two women walked in with a pretty, thin boxer on a lease. They'd found her about 2 weeks before and tried to keep her, had had her to the vet (she's about 2 years old, spayed, shots up to date, and has a minor ear infection). They said she got along with their other dogs and cats, but their older cats were indignant and were doing their business all over the house. So, rather than turn her in to the dog pound, they'd arranged to bring her to the SPCA. The staff member at the SPCA said Doc was a very adoptable dog, and if I'd rather take home the boxer, we should work things out between ourselves. We did.

She and I went to the big feed store, got an appropriately-sized crate, fitted her for a Kelly green harness and collar, took home some dog food that will put on some weight (Taste of the Wild Wetlands Formula - 35% protein and no grain), and some bully sticks. She hasn't been enthused about getting in the car, but she was polite and well behaved. She sits on command, and she is so quiet. She came home, looked around, had a drink and a few bites of food, and found a dog bed (we have 4 of them). She's softly snoring.

When we were at the feed store, our new girl was compliant with the saleswoman's fitting of the leash and collar, and she was accepting of people who approached (I explained to each one that I had no guarantee of her temperament so no one made a huge fuss), but every time a man walked by, her little stump of a tail wagged and wagged and she looked so eager. I think she's going to LOVE my husband.

If not for those phone calls this morning delaying my trip to the SPCA by 45 minutes, I'd have missed out on this sweet boxer. My husband will be wild with joy when he finds out. I emailed him pictures. I have a strong notion that my dear little girls reached out across the bridge and sent my new friend to us. I haven't yet named her, but it will happen.

molly muffin

12-03-2013, 07:08 PM

Oh Bonnie!! How sad that you lost Maggie, so soon after losing Pia. I cried when Pia passed and today I am very happy to say that I cried happy tears. We all thought and you too, that the time would come when you would want another dog to enter your life, but it wasn't right yet. Today, the time was right and so very right, just perfect in fact. It's like the stars all aligned and Pia and Maggie found the perfect one who needed to be in your home and sent her to you at Just the right time.
Your husband is going to be thrilled, she will love him I'm sure and you will have another friend in the house whom you will love and who will love you. That you will take care of and give her a wonderful life, that she so obviously has been missing. Poor thing, to be so skinny and not taken care of. It does seem though at some point, she had a home, and someone to teach her to sit and to be good around people. That is all good. Her lost soul has found her forever home.
I'm so happy that it worked out, that if you must say good bye to maggie and pia that at least something good has been sent your way.

We have our Everything Else section, and in it we have threads with the new furbabies who have entered the hearts and homes of our members. It would be great if you want to start a thread for your new furbaby. You know we will want pictures right :) and to hear all the stories about her. :)

Big hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

addy

12-03-2013, 07:27 PM

That is really hard to have to deal with, losing Maggie, I am so sorry about your pup but so happy a shining light has entered your home.

Things are meant to be some times when we find a new pup who needs us so. They have a habit of turning up when we least expect it sometimes.

I hope your new pup will bring happiness and help ease the heartache for you have had more than your share.

Big hugs

doxiesrock912

12-03-2013, 08:55 PM

Bonnie,

I'm so sorry about Maggie and I believe that things happen for a reason. Hence, the 45 minute delay and the fact that your husband specifically mentioned wanting a boxer.

What is the name of your newest family member? She sounds amazingly well behaved!

knitbunnie

12-04-2013, 02:03 AM

We haven't decided on a name. I've tried a few dozen, hoping I'd stumble onto something that sounded familiar to her, but so far, no luck. Via email and Facebook, the family is making suggestions. We have an Irish last name, Riley, so a few Irish names are in contention. So far we all seem to like Kelly, Bridget, Rosie, and Penny.

KellyBridgetRosiePenny got very enthusiastic tonight when I warmed up a hot dog and cut it up. I have to give her ear drops, and I wanted it to be a good thing, so we did hot dog bites and ear drop massages. It went well, and her little stumpy tail waggled pretty hard. She's so skinny and so tired. It will be interesting to see her personality develop. As soon as we figure out a name, I'll start a new thread for her.

Tonight, for the first time this season, the "Santa, Baby" commercial came on the television. I used to sing it to Pia as "Pia, Baby", so I sang it to Pia up in heaven and thanked her for whatever she had to do with KellyBridgetRosiePenny's coming into my life. I miss Maggie, too, but I still cry every single day for Pia. No one will ever replace her.

Trish

12-04-2013, 04:10 AM

Oh gosh what a story to read, so very sad to read about Maggie going to join Pia :( and then hang on.... we have a new KellyBridgetRosiePenny to welcome to the family.:) It was so meant to be, what a strange coincidence and good on you for rescuing her from the SPCA! Poor girl won't know whats' up with all the changes in her life lately. But I bet KBRP :) will soon realise she has struck the Doggie Lotto by ending up in your home!! You are well overdue some happiness and while KBRP is not ever going to replace your lost girls I bet she will go a long way to bringing some smiles back. Lovely to hear from you xxxx

knitbunnie

01-08-2014, 05:30 PM

I still my miss my sweet Pia and my darling Maggie every single day, and I thank them every day for sending Kelly (yes,we settled on Kelly as her name) to us.

Our boxer girl is slowly coming out of her shell and learning that no harm will come to her. She is still pretty quiet, but her stumpy tail is almost constantly waggling back and forth.

We have no history at all on her, so we piece together what we can from our experience and some input from our vet. She was in pretty poor condition when we got her - skinny as can be, ear infections, and a horrific case of tapeworm. She has a generalized yeast infection - smells like fritos, chews and scratches feet, ears, and everywhere else she can, she's got a lot of blackish staining on her belly and hind legs, and her white feet are pinkish stained. She had constant eye goo, too, but that's pretty much resolved.

We've put her on a limited-ingredient diet, and we swab feet and ears twice a day with a vinegar wash. I just sent for Malaseb shampoo, too. I feed her yogurt with active cultures twice a day, too. Her ears have stopped producing black crap, and the white fur on her feet is looking a little less pink-tinged, so I think we're making progress.

I have no idea what Kelly has been through, but I don't think her past life was exactly fabulous. Kelly has no idea what a toy is for, or tennis balls. She pulled something from the trash can a few days ago, and I said, "Bad girl." It nearly broke my heart because she totally cowered and then creeped off to a bed in another room. I hugged her and kissed her and it was all better, but I could not believe how strongly and pathetically she reacted.

The vet thinks she may have been a puppy-mill mother. She has several scars on her body, including some that look like they're from bites. Something we've noticed is that Kelly is utterly silent except when she snores. We hav not heard a bark, a yip, a whimper, or a growl. We were at a dog park and one large dog was not so friendly, and I felt the vibration of a growl, but not a sound. We have a heavy-hearted fear that her vocal cords were cut. I hope not.

She is very well-known behaved, and she loves attention, but she doesn't demand it. She is pretty content to lay in her bed unless we call her to us, and then she seems so appreciative of the attention.

If anyone has any thought on treating yeast in a dog, I would love some ideas. I don't want to simply treat the symptoms. I want to get rid of the yeast. The vet suggested Benadryl, but that doesn't really treat the root of the problem. I don't know how long it takes for yeast to go away, either. Weeks? Months?

Next week, we have to go out of town for a week to a family event, and we can't take Kelly along. She is going to a kennel, and I hope we don't lose too much of the progress we've made with her. I worry that she will feel abandoned all over again. If I could get out of going, I would. Kelly has gone to San Francisco three times with me to visit our younger daughter, and she spent Christmas with us and our two sons at a cabin in Lake Tahoe, so she's getting well-travelled, but she just cannot go with us to Florida. We're getting together with our four kids and our extended family, and we've had these plans for nearly a year. If anyone has suggestions for making Kelly's time at the kennel less traumatic, I am all ears.

doxiesrock912

01-08-2014, 06:14 PM

Bonnie,

Poor Kelly! I hate hearing stories like this and I can't even watch the ASPCA commercials. I cry and turn the channel.

Maybe the kennel will let you take Kelly in for a series of visits before you leave so that she doesn't automatically associate the place with being abandoned?

God Blessed you for giving her a loving home. She'll continue to come out of her shell.

labblab

01-08-2014, 06:36 PM

Hi Bonnie,

You will see that I've moved your new reply about Kelly (and also Valerie's) here to your main thread. Our "Checking In" thread is not really set up to field multiple replies to questions, so this will be the better spot for folks to talk with you directly. If you'd ever wish to start up a new thread that is dedicated to Kelly alone, you can always feel free to do so on our "Everything Else" forum and we can again transfer these replies. But for the time being, we can go ahead and talk right here.

I agree with Valerie -- bless you for bringing Kelly into your heart and home :)! And I also agree with you, in that I do worry that Kelly may feel really stressed by being taken to a kennel again :o. I think Valerie's suggestion is a good one. Maybe you could even arrange for a couple of overnight visits before leaving her for the full week. As an alternative, I know some folks can arrange for pet-sitters to come to their house multiple times daily for feeding, toileting, and socialization. I think some vet techs even do this as a side business to help owners who have to leave medically needy pets at home. But I don't know whether that would be any kind of reasonable option for you. I do understand why you are worried, though, because I would be feeling the same way and counting the hours while I was away from home. :o

Marianne

molly muffin

01-08-2014, 09:31 PM

Hi Bonnie. Oh poor Kelly (love her name) I hope her vocal cords weren't cut, how horrid for a dog to not be able to speak.
For the Kennel, I always take mollys blanket with her and our scents on it, make sure your scent is on it, and her favorite toys. I get extra play time for her one on one too. Anything that will make her feel relaxed and that she is still connected to you.
As for the yeast, you could do allergy testing with her. There are some shampoos that you can get from vet. We've had two members have good luck with ketochlor (shampoo). So ask vet about that.
So great to hear from you Bonnie.

molly muffin

01-08-2014, 09:33 PM

Ha! I actually think Mariannes idea to start a Kelly thread is a good one. Many of our members have new threads in Everything Else about their new family members. It's not unusual at all. :) Think about it!

gatorgirl_bama

08-07-2014, 07:35 AM

Hi Bonnie,
Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. It's been a hard few days for me and I know you are feeling it too.

Sending much love,
Donna

pansywags

08-07-2014, 01:16 PM

Kelly sounds very much like my boxer Pansy when she came to me through breed rescue. I suspect she was a breeder's dog (she was pregnant when picked up as a stray) as she had unusual vet care - dewclaws removed but not spayed or chipped, and no interest in interacting with other dogs. In the nearly 7.5 years we lived together, she played with a toy just once, and played with another dog once - she preferred the company and attention of humans best.

She also was highly reactive to the phrase Bad Dog, which I had to modify to Not Good Dog when speaking of her for the rest of her life.

I was concerned that she might have vocal cord damage as I did not hear a peep from her other than the famous boxer snoring and farting - she finally barked three years after she came to live with me. Imagine my surprise! Your Kelly may not have much to say yet. The breed is known for not barking unless there is good reason, so perhaps like Pansy she is biding her time.