(Adrenal tumor) desperately want info - my sweet little boy has passed

[Fellasmom]

Hi,
I just came across this board today and am hoping you could help me.I brought my 12yr old chihuahua to the vet last week because I noticed that his abdomen appeared distended.Vet said that it may be Cushings and ran a chem 25,UA,CBC and T4.He stated that he doesn't usually like to treat Cushings as the side effects from the medications were sometimes worse than the disease itself.He called me the next day and told me all the labs were okay except the alk phos was in the 900's which sometimes does indicate Cushings and that he wanted to do an ultrasound which is scheduled for this week.I've been looking up everything I can about Cushings and I am a wreck and have been crying on and off ever since!I know I'm sort of all over the place here,but please bear with me as I am an emotional wreck!I started to notice little changes in him in the last few months.Everything I read about Cushings says that symptoms occur over a long period of time but that usually owners just don't pick up on them.His symptoms included a ravenous appetite,increased number of bowel movements,increased urination and never ending thirst.The distended abdomen is what prompted the vet visit.He also has developed a dry and crusty nose,seems to always be sniffing,and snores louder.When I put all the symptoms together,I tried to pinpoint when they had al started.I know for a fact that in November and December he had NO symptoms-they started at the earliest in Jan/Feb..The thing that has me concerned and stumped is that I started him on Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM and Omega 3 and 6 beginning of Feb.I stopped it on March 29th.Within 3 or 4 days of stopping it,his water intake and urination has dropped down to normal or maybe a tad above normal.His large appetite has slightly decreased.His abdomen is still distended but doesn't feel as tight.I've spent days looking up adverse effects of glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM and Omega...although it is not very common,it does say that dogs can expericence bloating and increased BM's,rare cases of liver inflammation with elevated alk phos,rare cases of iodine induced hyperthyroidism.Whatever it is,it seems as though symptoms came on very suddenly(over a month or two.I can't say when he developed abd distention but I have pics of him in feb and you can clearly see a curvature of his abdomen-no distention then.It seems as though these all came on so rapidly as if it were triggered by something.Speaking of rapidly,I know this sounds crazy,but vet commented last week that his coat looked good.Two days ago,as I was petting him,he erupted in large amounts of dandruff covering his entire body from head to tail.By morning,his coat was fine and no sign of dandruff.So,here are my many questions and thank you in advance for being so patient with me!
1.If this were Cushings,would symptoms start to resolve without treatment?
2.Has anyone ever had any or heard of any similar adverse reactions to glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM?
3.If it IS Cushings,what are your thoughts about to treat vs not to treat? Thank you!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and your sweet boy,

So sorry for the reasons that brought you here but glad you found us, as we will help in any way we can.


Hi,

1.If this were Cushings,would symptoms start to resolve without treatment?

Iatrogenic Hyperadrenocorticism is the only type of Cushing's that doesn't require medication because this kind of Cushing's is caused by giving a dog steroids over a period of time. Treatment for Iatrogenic Hyperadrenocorticism is to slowly taper the use of the steroids.


2.Has anyone ever had any or heard of any similar adverse reactions to glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM?

I have never read about this but all dogs are different and react differently.


3.If it IS Cushings,what are your thoughts about to treat vs not to treat? Thank you!!

A Cushing savvy vet will not initiate any treatment unless there are strong symptoms and a comfirmed diagnosis. Cushing's can be difficult to get a confirmed diagnosis for because not all tests for Cuahing's are 100% accurate at diagnosing Cushing's and any non-adrenal illness will create false positive results on all Cushing tests.

If you could post the results of all tests that were done on your boy, we would appreciate it, we only need the abnormal findings. I think an ultrasound is a good start, u/s' are an amazing diagnostic tool which gives a visual of all the organs.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask them.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Fellasmom]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly!The fact that the increased thirst and urination have drastically decreased to normal or almost normal has me completely confused!He has been off the Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM for about 10 days now and honestly,if it weren't for noticing his distended belly the other day,I prob wouldn't have even thought anything was wrong!He has never been on any medication.Even his appetitie has changed but very slightly.He still is always hungry but doesn't practically take my hand off when I give him a treat,which was a new behavior for him.My experiences with vets have been mixed.Some overprescribe,some overlook while others never think "outside the box".As you pointed out,my vet DID say something like he doesn't like to treat unless the symptoms call for it.We are new to the area and he is a new vet as of last week and so far he seems to be okay.I will get a copy of the labs when I drop him off for the US on Thurs and post them.I have no coping mechanisms when it comes to even the thought of my baby being sick!I found him in the streets 10 yrs ago and am thankful everyday he is a part of my life!Just wanted to ask...what is the FIRST or best test to determine if this may be cushings?And if it is cushings,is the outcome better with treatment?Are you shortening a dog's lifespan if symptoms are mild and you dont treat?Just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing with the best possible outcome.Thank you!!

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum. What a sweetheart, I'm so glad that you two found each other 10 years ago. Some things are just meant to be.

Okay, so first things first. Lets see if this is cushings. Since the symptoms have all decreased with the stoppage of the supplements I don't think we are at that diagnosis yet. If all the blood work is fine other than the Alkp and if symptoms clear up, then I would probably recheck the ALKP in about a month, keep him off the supplements during that time and see if any symptoms come back while he isn't on them and go from there.
If you go forward with the ultrasound (and that is up to you), then you'll be looking to see what the liver and adrenal glands look like. Are they enlarged, is one adrenal enlarged only, how does the kidney and gallbladder and pancreas look. Those are things you'd want to know from an ultrasound, however, you'd still need specific cushings testing and the bad news is that there is no one gold test for cushings. It's one of the hardest to diagnose. ACTH to monitor cortisol levels (and I would not do this if you think he had a reaction to the supplements at this time. I'd wait for at least a month to make sure his system was clear) and an LDDS to see if he is able to suppress cortisol production at both 4 and 8 hour. That is probably the test I would do if you want to do one now. And don't start any kind of treatment without the ACTH test.

Dogs can live our their normal lifespan with cushings treatment. However, you are basically treating the symptoms, so without those, it's hard to know when you should or should not start treatment. Some have advocating starting earlier, but most of the specialist are still waiting for stronger symptoms to show to begin treatment. The medicines are nothing to play around with, but they can be life saving once you know that you need to treat and that this is a confirmed diagnosis. A good, experienced vet used to using the medications or one that is willing to learn with you if very important for a good prognosis.

I hope that helps and I didn't over whelm you too much.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Just wanted to ask...what is the FIRST or best test to determine if this may be cushings?And if it is cushings,is the outcome better with treatment?Are you shortening a dog's lifespan if symptoms are mild and you dont treat?Just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing with the best possible outcome.Thank you!!

If the vet has ruled out other possible health issues for his symptoms then, if this were me, I would have an urine cortisol:creatinine ratio (UC:CR) test done. The UC:CR is the simplest, least expensive test to rule out Cushing's. One just needs a sample of urine, preferably a 3 day pooled sample, which is done at home and then taken into the vets office.

[Fellasmom]

Wanted to thank you all for sharing so much valuable information.I work overnights so I'm always able to reply as soon as I would like but I really appreciate your help!Fella is having his ultrasound today and I am sick to my stomach!Although his drinking and urinating have decreased,he just isn't "right"-so many changes and I'm so worried.His coat is dull,dry with dandruff and i've noticed small brown spots on his belly.I think his hair is thinning as I can feel his body/muscles,etc more when I pet him.(not sure if that makes sense).I stopped looking up symptoms online because it was driving me crazy.I have this horrible sense of urgency because the symptoms seem to have come on so quickly.Any thoughts on holistic vets?I've only had one experience and she was wonderful.I did contact her and she told me to get a "full adrenal panel" and said she has a dog with Cushings herself.I set up an appt because I fig it can't hurt and it may very well help some of the symptoms.Also,vet is new to us and not sure if he is an interal med.If not,would you advise to switch to one for furthur workup?Thanks in advance for all your kindness!

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome to you and Fella, you have found an awesome place to be, lots of info and encouragement..take care, we are here for you and your furbaby!

[Harley PoMMom]

An Internal Medicine Specialist (IMS), I believe, is always good to have on board. They are usually much more knowledgeable and experienced than a regular GP when it comes to multiple health issues.

I am wondering if the holistic vet was referring to the full adrenal panel that is sent to the University of Tennessee? If so, I would not recommend having that done as of yet.

Some of the symptoms your boy has can be related to a thyroid problem, has his T4 been checked recently?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Fellasmom]

I was just told by the vet that Fella's ultrasound was not good.He said he has a large adrenal tumor that is ?shadowing or spread to collateral circulation.I am DEVASTATED.I was not prepared at all to hear this.At worst, I thought it might indicate Cushings and I would have time to seek treatment.Hard to imagine when I look at him and he is playing,wagging his tail and eating like a champ!I thought we would have so much more time together.I'm so blown away but want to stay strong for him because I don't want his sweet little face to see me crying.He said some people put them down when learning of diagnosis while others wait.He said it's not painful for him but that he runs risk of having a blood clot.He mentioned that some dogs can have surgery and recommended an Internal Med vet to discuss further options/2nd opinion.I did make an appt for tomorrow.Can anyone please help me with any similar experiences you may have had?I'm so afraid and my heart is broken.

[frijole]

We will be moving this post into your original thread to keep the story together but as you are upset I am going to wait a bit ok?

First off - your vet sounds like a rookie at this and those are not words he should have said. Lots of dogs have adrenal tumors. And they live. It is cushing's. It is adrenal cushings. It can be treated the same way (meds) OR you can see if surgical removal is an option. We have had plenty of successful surgeries here.

The key is to find a specialist that has alot of experience. Where do you live? We can perhaps help you with that.

I want to note that there are rare adrenal tumors that are not cushings. My Annie had one. Hers was a very long story but despite it she lived for over 2 yrs with it. Please cry but then gather yourself and prepare to get strong and get up to speed on adrenal tumors and finding the best help you can. Again, we are here to help ok? Kim

[Fellasmom]

Hope I'm not quoting him wrong..he said that it was a large, most likely aggressive adrenal tumor and that would explain why his symptoms came on so rapidly. He said it had spread to his collateral circulation.He acted as if he KNEW it was one of the rare adrenal tumors that you mentioned. There was no question that this was a malignancy. I was stunned,asked alot of questions and he did admit he was somewhat of a rookie and suggested I contact an internal med specialist. I do have appt tomorrow with internal med and an appt on Monday with a holistic vet who was a huge source of comfort and treated my Golden before she passed a few years ago. Your response was the first sliver of hope I've felt since he told me. When I asked how long he would have,he said "maybe a month or so".I live in the Boston area and would be open to any suggestions you may have. I'm not that internet savvy so yes,please move this to my original thread if you don't mind. The thing that troubles me the most is the size of the tumor and the fact that he said it has metastised! I do plan on reading all I can and will do all I can for him. He's a little fighter and I love him so much. My mind is all over the place right now. He basically said I can treat with meds to ease the symptoms but that the tumor will continue to grow. Since this looks as though it has spread, would it be the rare tumor that you spoke of? To be able to have the possibility of having more than a month or two left would be the best news I've heard all day! I have been reading about Cushings vs Addisons with benign tumors and thought I understood it but this "malignancy"has be back at square one trying to put the pieces together. Thanks for sharing Annie's story-I intend on reading it once I get my head straight!

[frijole]

I would take deep breaths and find a great specialist. They are not all great. :) Most vet clinics do not have the high resolution equipment needed to distinguish what type of tumors, exact size etc. Going to the specialist is the next logical step.

If you can, post their name and clinic name so we can google and read up on them ok? Obviously there should be many good specialists in the Boston area.

Kim

[molly muffin]

Oh dear, I am so sorry that you got this diagnosis. However, deep breaths and lets see where we are at. I do wish Trish were here now too, as her dog Flynn just went through a surgery to remove a pheo and of course Kim here has plenty of experience with pheo tumors too, if that is what this is.
Definitely a good internal medicine speacialist is needed at this point. You need to find out if this is operable, how much has it actually spread, what are the risks of surgery. If you do consider surgery as an option then you need to know how many of these surgeries has the specialist done and what were the outcomes of those surgeries.
If the tumor is is not operable, then lets look at medicines and see what can be done to possible shrink the tumor or at least slow it down.
We don't know till we find out as they say and we NEVER give up here. We've just seen too much. We do have one dog currently with an adrenal tumor who due to age is not having an operation and I believe that one is being treated with trilostane. So, there will be options.
I know it sounds bad right this second and of course it isn't what any of us want to ever hear, but when these things happen, we rally around the bandwagon and get to researching and finding out what can be done. You aren't alone, you will never be alone as long as you are with us.
Okay? So great big virtual hugs and lets to get to finding out what we can.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

:)Tomorrow I have an appt with a specialist at VCA Weymouth.I don't remember her name but sounds like Finichecko(something like that).I was desperate for an appt ASAP and they are closeby.After hearing the news today and seeing that his symptoms did come on so rapidly,I panicked and just called the closest place that had the earliest appt.I But I do know that the same ultrasound tech from today also goes to that facility as well so not sure the quality would be any different?Unless I absolutely love them tomorrow,not sure that I will stick with them but was really desperate to hear more information about options,etc and feel this sense of urgency/race against time.Tufts Animal Hospital in Grafton MA is supposed to be wonderful-have you heard anything about them?I also am anxious to see the holistic vet as she is so calm and supportive and may be able to recommend someone as well.The vet today was really compassionate but I'm left with the feeling that if I don't do something quickly,he very well may suffer from a blood clot which just put one more huge worry on my plate.Trying to take deep breaths-he is curled up beside me snoring and I'm the one having a heart attack! :)Thanks for all your help-it is soooo appreciated-more than you know!

[frijole]

I googled and found this page.. no name like that and only one board certified specialist that I could see. You want someone who is schooled in endocrinology. Kim

http://www.vcahospitals.com/south-shore-weymouth/our-team/veterinarians

[frijole]

Go here and if you type in Mass you'll get a list in your state. I think I found your person in there.

http://www.acvim.org/PetOwners/FindaSpecialist.aspx

I don't know that clinic could be good but I really like teaching hospitals like Tufts because they tend to have the latest technology and in my case I spent LESS there than at my regular vet for MRIs and other tests. I'd also think they'd have done more of this type of surgery but I could be way wrong. Kim

[lulusmom]

For some reason, Jeanne Ficociello is not showing as being staff at VCA but I found her on the ACVIM site. I googled her name and found her bio on the VCA Weymouth site. Very confusing. She did her internship under Dr. Bruyette at VCA West Los Angeles so that is a really good thing. Her bio sounds great so I think this may be a very good appointment for you and Fella. Here's Dr. Ficociello's bio.

http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/south-shore-weymouth/departments-doctors/doctors/jeanne-ficociello/11139

[frijole]

You rock Glenda! I found her on the site but not her full bio. Way to go. Thanks!! Kim

[molly muffin]

Oh glad you found her Glynda I didn't see her on the list either and the only one I saw that wasn't an associate was Michael Berstein. So, very glad you found our elusive Dr. Ficociello and one of her interests is endocrinology. Lets see what she says. She looks nice, as in has a nice smile. :)

Sharlene

[Fellasmom]

I just pulled up the page and her name is Jeannie Ficociello.VCA has a good reputation but in my opinion,is extremely expensive and feels like a business the moment you walk thru the door.I agree with you as well,I think teaching hospitals are great and I do find them a bit less expensive.Since I have the appt tomorrow and am SO anxious to have things furthur explained to me,I may keep the appt tomorrow in hopes that I will gain a better understanding of what we are up against.I do have time,right?Ideally,I would like to have a specialist from Tufts see him but couldn't get an appt for tomorrow.Thanks so much to all of you for comforting me and making me not feel so alone!I was blown away by the news but I will NEVER give up on my little boy!

[Fellasmom]

It takes so long for me to type/post my reply that I see you are way ahead of me!!You guys are awesome!!Is it significant that she practiced under Dr Bunyette??Thanks again-great team work!!

[molly muffin]

I don't think it would hurt to keep this appointment and go from there. You have copies of all the test results and the ultrasound? If not go pick them up prior to your appointment so the specialist can review all results and give you the best feedback possible.
I know it is going to be impossible to sleep tonight, but do try to get what rest you can. Tomorrow is a big day. I really do think that you need a more experienced specialist and that this is the best course of action. You need a plan. :)

hang in there. We're here with you.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[frijole]

Yes David Bruyette is one of the best in the country. Even if her exposure was minimum she has access to him and his people which is good if it's tricky.

I agree - go and see what tomorrow brings. You can go to bed tonight and at least know you are no longer alone on the journey. We are here to help and cheer you guys on. Do let us know what you find out. Hugs, Kim

[Fellasmom]

Thank you all so much. I did sleep a few hours as I had been up for almost 36hours from working the night before. The vet faxed all the results over to Dr Ficociello. I didn't realize the significance of working under Dr Bruyette but that is very encouraging!I'm hoping that she offers some hope. My appt isn't until 3pm so I will post afterwards to share her info. I started looking adrenal tumors up but was honestly so exhausted and upset, I didn't get very far. Are there any pertinent questions I should ask her today? I just met all of you but yet I can't imagine being without your support! I have to go to an early morning work meeting and then back to get my llittle guy. Have a great day and will speak to all of you soon!

[Harley PoMMom]

Are there any pertinent questions I should ask her today?

I would want to know how many cases of dogs with Cushing's disease she has treated. Also, what is her preference in drugs to treat, such as Lysodren or Vetoryl. I would want to know the protocols she follows for the drug she prescribes for Cushing's, e.g. monitoring tests, dosage scale (if Vetoryl, does she follow UC Davis or Dechra's treatment plan). And, if she is willing to be a team player, as to listening to you and explaining any thing you don't quite understand...these are just a few of my thoughts!

[doxiesrock912]

Be sure that they explain what signs to look for if the meds are too strong. It happens. At the beginning, finding the right dosage can be trial and error.

[Squirt's Mom]

At the beginning, finding the right dosage can be trial and error.

This depends on which drug you use - it seems to take more tweaking with Trilostane (Vetoryl) than it does with Lysodren (Mitotane). And if this is a pheo instead of a Cushing's adrenal tumor, you won't use either med since a pheo is NOT Cushing's. So for today, don't worry about which med and how to use and so on. You're on the right path to find out exactly what is going on with your sweet boy.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Budsters Mom]

Hi,
Just because your vets are doctors, it doesn't necessarily mean that they know much about Cushings protocol. I have first had experience with that! :eek: Both Lysodren abd Trilostane are heavy duty drugs. They need to be monitored closely and levels need to be tested regularly. Don't assume they know what they are doing. Cushing treatment is expensive. You certainly don't want to pay for invalidated tests results. You also don't want the meds increased based on a faulty test. I don't mean to scare you, just be aware that it happens.
I hope all goes well.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[frijole]

I would ask their interpretation of the ultrasound/tumor. I would ask if your dog is a candidate for surgical removal. I would ask what they would do if it were their dog and look them in the eye for an answer. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Hi
Thanks for all your advice. I did start reading on tumors and the cushing meds. The more I read, the more confused I have become however. According to the vet yesterday, he has a large adrenal tumor which has most likely metastised. The meds would just treat the symptoms but do nothing with the tumor, right? He does have a "little bit" of alot of symptoms but not sure if they would warrant medication. Changes include dry nose, snoring, increased appetite, slight increase in thirst and urination, potbelly and thinning hair in belly. Of course, I'm worried about the changes but compared to what I have read, they don't seem that significant and he is in good spirits, wagging his tail,etc. He does seem a little "wiped out" and sleeps more however. Would his symptoms warrant medication in your opinion? I'll do anything for him but just so overwhelmed with all of this. I would like to have another diagnostic test to look at this tumor to possibly idenify which kind it is. I keep reading that malignant adrenal tumors are so rare but doc said he clearly saw shadowing. I'm really still in a state of shock. I'm praying that the internal med vet gives me a sliver of hope or a little more time than what the vet said yesterday. Well, off to the appt and will speak soon! Thank you!!

[frijole]

I wouldn't focus on treatment options yet. You are still in fact finding stage. You want for the specialist to take a look for themselves to see what you are dealing with. Like I mentioned earlier, most clinics simply do not have the equipment and the experience reading results to say with certainty that it is malignant. You want for them to look with their own eyes and see what is going on.

If it is malignant then you need to determine if it can be removed. If it isn't malignant you still need to consider removing it surgically because the tumor will grow and eventually it could invade the arteries to the heart. Treating with meds helps a bit but may not be enough - again it all depends on the size, type and location of the tumor.

So don't even concern yourself with the different types of meds yet. There is no sense in clouding your mind with data you don't yet need. Go get facts, opinions and always go with your gut as to whether or not you trust these people with your dog's life. Guts are always the best.

Hang n there and know we are with you in spirit. We call ourselves the cush angels at times like this. We hover over you and yours silently saying prayers and fending off all evil. ;) You are doing a great job and will do just fine. KIm

[Mel-Tia]

Wishing you a good outcome on your visit today. Hoping your other vet was wrong and it's not malignant

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[Harley PoMMom]

Has he had his blood pressure checked recently? If not, I would ask the IMS to do this.

[molly muffin]

Checking in, and hoping for some good news.

Definitely the tumor and the interpretation of it is the most important thing right now. That and find out if you're a candidate for surgery and the risks as they see them of a surgery. Next find out how many they have done if this is an option and the outcome. If they are at a loss, don't give you what you need to know. Book an appointment at the University.
We will do this one step at a time, or you're going to feel like you're below water, struggling for air. We don't want that. :)
You're doing great. You're doing everything that you can do to get more information and make a plan of action. So, one step at a time.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Fellasmom]

I just got back and I feel so hopeless. I feel panic and heartache and I don't know if I can get thru this. I can't lose him. The doctor was very nice and very knowledgeable. I hope I can repeat everything correctly. The copies of the US that were sent to her were all black, she couldn't even see them which was really disappointing. She read that the left adrenal measured at its longest length 1.5cm and the right was .37. The devastating part and the part that is keeping me in the hopeless bottomless pit of despair is that it is invading the vena cava and there is a thrombus present which does not look like it is obstructing. She said that she feels it is most likely malignant because of the above. She says it is most likely a cortisol secreting tumor since you typically see one adrenal shrink. She said we could do a LDDS test that would show if it were consistent with Cushings. She said she would need that test anyhow if I were contemplating surgery. She spoke to surgery and told me that he would be a surgical candidate but mentioned mortality rate and since it involved a vessel, it would be a riskier surgery. She took a urine cx and to check for proteins and checked his BP which was 150 which she said was good. Said the meds would perk him up a bit, help with the symptoms, decrease the cortisol (if LDDS determined it was Cushings) and would decrease chances of clots forming. But of course, they wouldn't do anything for the tumor. She said it was aggressive since it was in the vena cava but suggested that we could do 1-2 wk ultrasounds to take a better look at its progression. Big risks are clots and bleeding out due to vena cava which really has me SICK! I work overnights and they are alone, and all I can think about is him suffering and me not being here. I told her that and she said she would prob feel the same but tho it IS a possibillity, she hasn't seen it too often. I did ask her about radiation which she said may be too risky as the tumor may shrink and pull away from the thrombus. She did say that there was a "Cyber Knife" in Yonkers NY however that was able to radiate just TINY areas - she will check with them. I'm not sure how dogs react to radiation but I really wish that were an option cuz it sounds like it maybe would have bought us some time. She gave me her email if I have any questions and will call me in a few days with results. She did say he has a spot on his spleen that may be nothing and a few liver nodules that may be age related and those things would need to be checked/treated if surg was decided. He is curled up beside me as I sit here and write this. My heart is just broken. I just can't believe this is happening to us. She really couldn't give me a prognosis except for surgery which I think she said 1-2 years for those who make it through. Any thoughts? Any positive stories similar to this? Advice? Thank you!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Here are links to member's Thread that have dogs that have gone through successful adrenalectomies: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=100029&highlight=Adrenalectomy#post100029

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5080&highlight=Adrenalectomy

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3674&highlight=Adrenalectomy

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

[frijole]

Did you ask her how many of these surgeries she has done? Did you ask what her success rate is? This type of surgery is not done very often and requires alot of experience. Did she say if she would do it or someone else? You absolutely would need the best as it is a tricky surgery and not just anyone can do it.

I can tell you that every member we've had come on with this dx was equally devastated. I can also tell you that we have members whose dogs have successfully made it thru this surgery and lived normal lives.

I hope that some of these members will join us on this thread to help you. Sending much love, Kim

[Fellasmom]

Just woke up with Fella curled up next to me. God, how much I love this boy! He just keeps on staring at me with those big brown eyes. He knows he is sick and there is a part of me that feels he is saying goodbye to me. I never give up on anything, sometimes to a fault. I would do anything for this boy and I'm consumed with love, pain, anger, dread and panic right now. I'm trying to do some soul searching but I don't know what to do!! I'm sobbing as I write this because all the options we have don't really sound all that good. I need your help!! I keep reading and was told that there is a risk of my baby throwing a blood clot or bleeding out since the tumor is in a major vessel. This can happen at any time and would be quite devastating. Does anyone know how often this occurs - I mean is it such a real possibillity that I should have someone here with him at all times just in case something were to happen? I'm trying make the best decision for my little boy and its breaking my heart. My mind is all over the place but here are my thoughts and fears. I've started to read about the surgery. The thought of giving him a chance is the only hope I feel I have. However, I've read up to 50% don't make it through the first 10 days and a high percentage suffer extensive post op complications. The odds don't sound good but he's a fighter. However, if he didn't make it through or suffered some really bad complications, I think I'd be left with the feeling of "did I do this for me or him?" What is the average cost for the surgery? I read with complications it could be up to 18,000? I'd find a way to get that kind of money if need be but it would be difficult. The other option is wait and see/treat. She couldn't give me a prognosis and the thought of him bleeding out or throwing a clot has me terrified every minute of every day. The thought of him suffering that way has me in a panic. Have you heard of this often? I'm afraid to leave him alone. I feel I need to find someone to stay here when I work just in case that were to ever happen. Vet said his BP is good, if his urine came back with proteins they could start him on meds which would decrease chance of clot but that bleeding out or clot was still a possibility although she hasn't seen it happen all that often. If it wasn't for those 2 horrible "what ifs" I may be more inclined to wait and see. Miracles happen everyday and sometimes we live alot longer than what is expected but those 2 complications frighten me. They frighten me so much that my next thought is should I put him down, say goodbye, tell him how much I love him and avoid any suffering that may be around the corner. That thought kills me, breaks my heart. I never give up, sometimes to a fault. He's eating, drinking, loves his treats and still snuggling up to me. How could I do that? But I also can tell he is not himself, more tired. I'm in a state of despair and hopelessness and still somewhat in a state of shock that this is even happening. I do feel that I should get another ultrasound because she couldn't even see the one they sent over. I am going to still go to the holistic vet because she is wonderful and I trust her to give me honest compassionate advice. I will also ask IM specialist about surgery. What are your thoughts? Any step by step advice? I'm drowning in sorrow.

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' sweetie,

In your shoes, the first thing I would do is find a good board certified surgeon and have them look at Fella's case. THIS is the one who can tell you better than anyone else what the options are, what the prognosis is, for Fella. Don't waste money on an IMS - go directly to the surgeon who would actually do the operation. They can tell you specifics that no one else will be able to tell you. They will know if he is a good candidate and what his chances are. So find a board certified surgeon and get Fella in to see them soon. This will help inform your decisions more than anything else. ;)

I understand your angst. It is obvious Fella is a very special boy and that you two have a special relationship. There is no fear like the fear of losing our babies - whether to an illness we cannot fix, a sudden tragedy, or to simple old age. These are our children, they are part and parcel of the very fiber of our beings. Losing them leaves a void that can only be filled with memories - and memories are a poor substitute for a little warm body next to yours. I understand your fears much more than I wish I did. I understand the way your throat closes up, your heart sinks to your belly, your breath won't come, the sudden rush of scalding tears, the terror when you look at him and see something different, and the total panic of being away for fear of what you may find when you return. I know these things too well. These are among the signs of love, a deep and abiding love. It is from this deep love that we make our decisions for our babies - and because those decisions come from that love they cannot be wrong. Our love will make sure we do the right thing no matter the situation because our babies are always put first.

If you decide to do the surgery it is because you believe it is the best thing for Fella; if you decide against the surgery it is because you believe that is the best course for Fella. But before you can make this decision, you need to talk with the surgeon themselves and be fully armed with information concerning Fella's case specifics. So info first, then decision. Whatever you decide, we will be with you all the way - we trust your judgement and will support you both no matter which way you decide. We are always here anytime you need to ask questions, or simply scream - we are here.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Good Morning. I agree with Leslie. A surgeon needs to have the ultrasound done, evaluate it, see exactly where the tumor is and what he thinks. It MUST be a surgeon who has done Lots of these surgeries, with a good outcome. No one else is acceptable. I think you got some straight talk from the IMS, but without being able to see the ultrasound it would be difficult to make those determinations and she could only go off of what the original vet that we all felt was too much of a rookie to deal with, his opinions. So, Surgeon! Cost of surgery can be spendy and that is something else that you want to find out about from the surgeon. They can put together an estimate.
I wonder if the University does many of these surgeons. I wouldn't want a student doing it though, just make sure it is a seasoned vet who has done many. Cost might be more reasonable.

Hang in there. We are still early in the decision phase here.
I can't speak to the blood clot as I don't know anything about it. Maybe some of the others here will have some experience knowledge about that.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

OMG, your response made me cry - it was so heartfelt and described the love I feel in my heart and all the emotions that I feel right now. I have to find a way to take some deep breaths and take one day at a time. I assumed a visit to the IM vet was a good idea. She is going to follow up with the results from urine and just follow up in general. She did say they could do surgery but if I understand you correctly, you are saying in addition to her, I should def book consult with board certified surgeon as well who can give me alot more detailed info at this point. In order to do that, I'm thinking I should schedule another US as they were looking at a complete blackened copy plus as I was advised previously, the machines can be different and a repeat at this facility may produce a clearer image, etc plus the expertise of the staff there who would be reading it. Would you def get another US? Then next step would be to book appt with surgeon to get an honest opinion, ask questions, etc? I will look up the surgeons at VCA weymouth to be sure they are board certified but I believe they are. She did say they could do surgery and they have done it with similar presentations but that if the tumor wasn't resectable, they would just "close him" and that the thrombus and infiltration into the vena cava were huge risk factors making a risky surgery even riskier. I'm relying heavily on my appt with the holistic vet tomorrow. I'll try to make a long story short. My Kelsey was a beautiful golden and my first dog. She got hit by a car and as a result, became fully incontient. They tried to emphasize the incontinence as being a major decision towards putting her down. I didn't and she lived for 10 years and had a wonderful life. Towards the end of her life, literally, one day she woke up confused, tripping over things. I brought her to Angell Memorial which is supposed to be the best. I never felt that they respected the relationship I had with her.Among many many other things, she was discharged a week later with a presumed brain tumor. They said she barely ate, wasn't walking well and was bleeding from her rectum from a GI bleed. Seems even tho she wasn't eating, they still continued to give her IV steroids without giving her pepcid to protect her stomach. She was always wet since she didn't wear a doggie diaper and they must have just sprayed her down to clean her. That's when I made the appt for the holistic vet who had seen her just prior to her hospitalization. She was so comforting to me. She was carried home as she wasn't able to walk and when I got her home, I was horrified to see that her long hair had become entwined from being wet, etc. Her hair from her hind leg was actually ATTACHED to her belly. I wept. I had to take a scissors to cut the hair to free her leg from her belly. Underneath I discovered a horrific urine burn. My poor baby!! Her lab values indicated that she needed a blood transfusion. I took her to holistic vet who was horrified but started treating her with chinese herbs. Her bleeding stopped and she lived another month. The holistic vet was compassionate, honest and just radiated kindness. I don't know what I would have done without her. Funny, animals are smart. My Kelsey healed herself of everything they had inflicted on her. During the last month of her life, her labs came up to normal, bleeding stopped, she ate like a champ (they should have fig out she just needed to be fed), her skin healed itself and she was able to greet me at the door. I prob never would have forgiven myself had she passed from complication of the hospitalization. I love love this holisitic vet and feel of all doctors, specialists, etc, she would give the best, honest,realistic advice based on compassion. Whew! long story, but just explaining the importance of bringing Fella up to see her. So,my steps would be the following??
1.get the results of urine tests and possibly furthur testing to find out if it is a Cushings tumor which is necessary if surgery is to be done.
2.Get repeat US so that IM vet can see for herself
3.Book consult with board certified surgery.
4.Make a decision based on information. If no surgery, do you think it's a good idea to have periodic US to at least compare and see how slow/fast tumor is progressing? My only hope that if surgery is not done, maybe it would be a slow moving tumor and he could have some quality of life still and maybe never suffer from the bleed out or the blood clots. Miracles do happen and maybe I could have him for 6 or 8 months more without the surgery. Oh, this is just so awful. I keep looking at him and just can't believe this is happening to him. I am really looking forward to hearing what the holistic vet has to say. She wasn't always holistic and has years of experience so I am interested in her experiences,thoughts. Thank you for all your compassion and advice!

[frijole]

Agreeing with the others. For some reason I was thinking this specialist was the surgeon but obviously I was confused. Absolutely you need to find out which surgeon this specialist would have do the surgery. You meet with them, find out their thoughts and I am sure they would do their own film. They are the only ones that can tell you whether the prognosis is good etc.

Re the 50/50 stats you are reading - don't take it too seriously because I can tell you that this surgery is done more and more the last few years and results are certainly better than they were. The US has lagged behind other European countries in performing this surgery for some reason. It is no longer as rare as it was and with experience come better results. That is why you need to make sure you hook your wagon to a star surgeon.

The surgeon is the one that can take the film they need to determine how risky it is, the level of success etc. So email the specialist and find out who she was planning on using. And then get an appt with the surgeon. If you don't like that person you can always go to Tufts.

The fact that your dog doesn't seem to have a lot of symptoms makes me less worried about how much time you have to investigate all of this. You obviously want to move quickly but you don't have to schedule surgery for tomorrow.

Sending love, Kim

[frijole]

We posted at the exact same time. I would assume that the surgeon would want to do their own ultrasound so I'm not sure I would waste time and money on that. Get the name of the surgeon, find out from them and go directly there would be my thoughts.

The only thing I'd caution you re the holistic vet is don't start on a regime of herbs that might impact surgery should you decide to go that route. I think I'd hold off on the holistic vet until after seeing the surgeon. Kim

[Fellasmom]

haha...you can tell my mind is fried at this point! I'm searching for k9cushions and wondering why it keeps pulling up outdoor furntiure! haha...Any good/bad feedback on Tufts Animal here in Grafton? I just pulled them up and they say they have a fabulous board certified oncology dept which includes surgeons, etc. They also boasted that they have a rare mode of radiation therapy. I didn't dislike the IM specialist yesterday but for some reason, my mind keeps going towards Tufts. I am going to keep the appt with the holistic vet partly because she changed her schedule up a bit to accomodate us for Monday. I do agree about holding off on the herbs but I am looking forward to her thoughts, experience and also could use some diet tips as I just started making meals for him since i noticed he was inhaling his dry food and was afraid he would aspirate. I hate jumping around so much. I know they are all expensive but what do you think of a consultation, UA to check for proteins and a BP for a bill of 595? I thought it was a little high, the UA and proteins were the most at over 200. Any knowledge of Tufts? It sounds as if I would book appt with Oncology which would include a surgeon as part of the team who I would also meet with. The news doesn't sound good but I kind of was surprised that the doc from yesterday didn't push for a repeat US since all she could do was read the findings and not see anything from the copies. Thanks.

[molly muffin]

I'm just thinking since you've seen the IMS, I'd call and just ask, who would do such a surgery if one was to be done to find out if it is a surgeon in house or not. If not then look up information on whomever they say would do it.

Tufts I have done an internet search for reviews and read both good and bad. I think that is going to hold true for many places though. Pricing does not seem to be any different from local vets and all mention that you have to be careful that they don't do tests that don't need to be done. So, have copies of everything with you, wherever you go. The ultrasound should have been copied to a dvd so that it would be able to be seen readily. When I had to take molly in for choking, they did an ultrasound of her complete throat and digestive system to see if there as a blockage and then handed me the DVD to bring to my regular vet to put in her records. (the IMS kept one for her records too at the ER hospital). A high res machine is necessary and I'm wondering if the one your vet used was or not, since the picture came out black. I'm won't comment about costs, since I'm in Canada. The others will have an idea probably.

You'll definitely be jumpy as this is a new situation and your responding to every little sound that Fella makes right now.

Of course it wouldn't hurt to have a chat with your hollistic vet that you are comfortable with already. Just don't start anything as long as you contemplating surgery. Marianne is right, you don't want anything that might affect that. The hollistic vet might have some ideas or even a recommendation for a good surgeon.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Was the bill for proteins and BP done by the specialist? Interesting because what that tells me is they were checking to see if this is adrenal cushings or a pheochromocytoma tumor (what my dog had). I assume that bill also included the consult which for a specialist could easily be $250. Of course I am just guessing. :D

It took me over a year to get a diagnosis on my dog (the first ultrasound failed to capture the tumor) and my dog had lost significant weight (due to the pheo tumor) and really wasn't a good candidate for surgery after that much time. Just sharing in case you wonder why I did not do surgery. No two situations are a like and I was lucky in that I had a full two years with my girl. Her tumor did not grow and was not invading the vena cava. Hers caused muscle wasting and weight loss. Different situation.

I did end up treating her holistically with shots of B12 and acupuncture which I think helped give her much relief and many extra months of happy times.

The thing that bothers me about your ultrasound is you mentioned 'black screen' which makes me wonder how clear the film really is. Even if it was clear I would want the surgeon to get a look based on how they prefer to look at tumors (angles, locations etc).

I really can't comment about Tufts ability - I just know that I was very pleased with my treatment at K State's Vet Teaching hospital. To be honest the specialist you went to might actually recommend a surgeon from Tufts do the surgery vs doing it in house. Again I'd email for that info - at least you'd get quick answers/opinions. Kim

[frijole]

Oh and I'm laughing at k9cushions. Classic! Understandable. Hang in there! Kim

[Fellasmom]

I can't say it enough - I don't know what I would do without your support, empathy and knowledge! So vet just left msg and said that Fella's urine cx is pending but that his protein-creatinine ratio is elevated at 3.2 so she is calling in an ace inhibitor to the pharmacy plus a very very lose dose aspirin. She said both these things would decrease chance of blood clots. I will email her to inquire about surgeon. It appeared to be in house as in the beginning of appt, when asked if surgery woud be an option, she replied she didn't know and that she would have to check with the surgical team. When she came back, she said she checked with them and yes, they could do surgery but it would be risky and things to consider would be the splenic mass and nodules in the liver. Final diagnosis read left adrenal mass, rule out adenocarcinoma vs adenoma vs pheo vs other. Furthur testing may include: LDDS test, aspirate of liver nodules (tho she did say they can come back falsely neg) and repeat US to check for size and progresson of mass. The repeat US I think was in response to me asking if there were any way of telling the progression rate of the tumor. She was great but I don't like the fact that I would have thought that she would have insisted on doing an US first so that she could see for herself. Of course, I'm getting paranoid that maybe the written results were so dismal she wasn't compelled to get another right away. I saw what they had sent her because she had it in her hand. It was a bunch of legal size papers stapled together which were done on a regular copier, which showed images completely black with findings typed on the on the left side. It was done by a travelling US guy who she said was great and comes there as well but that they also have their own US machine. She said the tumor measured 1.5cm-isn't that very small? It was described to me as a "very large tumor" by the first vet. I'm all over the place as far as getting a 2nd opinion. I keep throwing around the idea of Tufts or even Angell Memorial. I did have a very bad exp there BUT they are supposed to be on the cutting edge as well. Really don't know what is involved, but did ask her if they would just be able to get to the thrombus if nothing else, but she said no, the whole surgery would need to be done. Right now, Fella is beside chewing on his bone and back to his old self of growling "arghhhhh" when I try to take it away from him! Still has the tough street dog mentality! haha. And Kim, thanks for sharing your story. How horrible that the tumor wasn't picked up sooner but so happy that you had 2 yrs together, though its never enough time. I think most of us visit holistic when we are fed up with conventional or desperate for a miracle. I do know she has seen many many dogs who are in their end stages of life and she used to be a surgeon. I do hope I can gain some valuable input from her and she may def know of a recommendation. Anybody have anything good/bad to say about Angell?

[Fellasmom]

I just wanted to tell you ladies that I was up half the night reading your threads.I feel like I know you and all of your babies and love the "paws up".I still can't believe this is happening to him but the shock is lessening.One minute I say I want him to have the surgery and the next minute I change my mind.Does anyone know how much the surgery is?I always say it's a shame we can't add them on our health insurance!Don't ever want cost to be a factor in my decision so want to gather some money together in prep just in case.I really really am anxious to get another US.While doing a little researching,I came across info that said dogs with vena cava involement have bout 60days!!!!Made me sick and worried!!!Feel like the clock is ticking.Hard to believe cuz Fella looks great!He def is a little "off" in that he rests alot.His eyes also look a little glazed but he sees well.I have awful memories of Angell and swore I would never go there again but I need to find the absolute best and the choices are VCA Weymouth,Tufts or Angell.I'm not that internet savvy so does anyone know from looking at these places,which has the absolute best reputation/most expertise?And I guess I need to ask this...in the event that he is not a surgical candidate or that I decide not to pursue it,do any of u know of any other doggies with vena cava involvement that lived longer than 60days??Don't know which post I read,but I too am 49,single and not able to have children.I have no coping mechanisms when it comes to grief and loss and tend to really sink in a black hole.I have a golden and a cat as well and they are my "family".The thought of losing him is paralyzing to me.Please respond when you can and I loved all your posts!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin',

If I were you, I wouldn't take too much of what the IMS had to say about the surgery or the tumor to heart. First, what she was looking at wasn't the actual film and was a very poor quality. Second, she won't be doing the surgery not does she have experience with surgery of this type. Also I would go directly to the surgeon as the next doc I spoke with about this. You need to be the one to look him in the eye, you need to be the one to hear what his thoughts are...with no go between that may interpret his thoughts with their own slant or influence the surgeon in any way. You need to ask your questions, not hear the answers to someone else's questions. ;) THEN after you hear what the surgeon thinks about Fella's case, if you want to add the Holistic vet, do so....but right now they cannot help that tumor very much at all and unless you have lots of money to pass around, I would hold off on everything but the surgeon. Plus you'll have more info to share with the Holistic vet after talking to the surgeon so they have the bigger picture. Holistic vets treat the whole dog so the more they know, the more they can address - including environment, life style, etc. that may help while he waits on the surgery if he is a candidate.

Talk to Angell and if you aren't comfortable with that surgeon, talk to Tufts, talk to any surgeon that is highly qualified with this type surgery, then decide which is the best for Fella. Just because you talk with a surgeon does not mean you have to allow them to do the operation - listen to your gut and it will steer you toward the best one for your sweet boy and his situation. Fella and I both trust your gut. :)

My Squirt had a tumor on her spleen that was found during the cush testing. The first surgeon I was sent to see, was THE one for us. He was confident, he was compassionate, he talked to me and listened to me even when I was bawling so hard I could barely breath, he was gentle with Squirt and she responded to him like an old friend. I went in fully believing this was the end for my Sweet Bebe and walked out feeling much more optimistic. When the day came for the surgery, I was able to put her in his hands trusting him completely....and he did not fail us. I know how terrifying this is and I know that your love for Fella will guide you to the right path for him.

Keep your chin up, honey! You're doing a great job.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

I really agree with having a talk with the surgeon themselves. One of them is going to need to do a high res ultrasound and then you'll want a copy of that put on a cd or dvd, whatever they use so you don't have to keep having it done for each surgeon, you can just take it with you. So ask and make sure that it is a "high res" machine and that they can put a copy on a cd/dvd for you to have.
I wish I knew which was the best, had the most experience, but I don't. I'll try to find some time today to look it up on the net though.
You can search by putting in Tufts University animal hospital reviews, surgery, something like that, keep trying various words till you get the return you are looking for.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

I did find the search page for ACVS board certificted surgeons. You can do a search by area, I put in Boston and then click on each doctors name and the first one I clicked, told what their surgical interest/specialty is.
I'm hoping this might help us to narrow down the field.

http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSurgeoninYourArea/

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Sharlene, the link isn't working for me.

HTTP Error 404 - File or directory not found

Kim

[Abbifoot]

Hi

I am so very sorry to hear of the whirlwind you have been going through with Fella's diagnosis. This is unbelievably familiar in so many aspects and I ache in remembering the days and weeks when Abbi was going through similar tests and consults that you are going through right now with your Fella. It is overwhelming to receive such devastating news about our babies and at the same time try to learn all possible about cushings and adrenal tumors and then understand all of the options. It is a blessing that you have found your way to this site as it is not only a wealth of information, but offers such compassionate support from a group of people that understand what you are going through.

I wont clutter up your post with details of Abbi's situation, but I will try to put some information on her thread since I have not posted any detail of her diagnosis. I will tell you, she was diagnosed last October with bilateral adrenal tumors, one very large, greater than 7cm(she is a 55lb dog). The prognosis was not great, it was not even good, and I prayed every day for her to be with us for Christmas. Today, Abbi and I will go running as we do every day. When we get back, she will jump into her pool (that is already set up even though it still seems to be winter in New England) and play for a while. Then, she will probably take a nap while I finish my taxes....:eek:

I agree with all of the posts. Step back, take a few deep breaths, and don't start any significant treatments or make conclusion until there is complete information and have spoken with a doctor that you know is right for you and Fella. From your experience at Angell, you know that just because they have a degree, does not mean they will provide the overall best treatment for your baby. Listen to your intuition and your gut. Give yourself a chance to digest some of this information and get past some of the shock. No one knows and loves your baby like you do and sometimes it is not only the medical facts that need to be considered, but what is right for Fella and you.

Perhaps where you do have experience at Angell, you may want to consider a consult at Tufts before you consider Angell again. Either way, it is important that you speak directly with the surgeon if you are considering surgery. Regardless of where you go and who you see, before they run a test, do not run a test you feel they should, offer treatment, or do a procedure, I would encourage you to ask
- explain why
- what are the options/alternatives
- what are the risks
- explain what something means until you understand
- request copies of the visit reports/test results

Try not to assume. You will make yourself sick. You are paying for these services, so don't hesitate to ask questions and call them back when you have more or if there is something you are not clear on.

If Sharlene's link is still not working, try
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/
and click on 'find a surgeon in your area' on the left side of the page

[molly muffin]

Thanks for letting me know Kim. I think I fixed the link. This time when I clicked on it, it went where it should. If not Abbi's mama's link will also get you to the right spot. :) Thanks btw! :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[Fellasmom]

Thanks again-you guys are amazing!!I'm so lucky that I found this page and all of you.I can't tell you how much it means to hear from you and hear your stories,recommendations and most of all,the love and understanding that I feel from all of you!It goes a long way when you're trying to get out of the black hole of hopelessness.The link was great but when I pulled up VCA,I got 3 results for board certified surgeons.All of them with a focus on ortho/soft tissue.Shouldn't I be looking for someone with oncology focus or interest?If so,I'm wondering why IM specialist from other day said surgery would do the surgery??Isn't that like a human having colon cancer and having an orthopedic surgeon do the surgery?Any key things that I should be looking for as far as where they did their residency,etc?The older,the better?I did find one that listed oncology,a Dr Berg at Tufts.I'm going to continue to look but was just a little annoyed at VCA.Of course,it doesn't take much to get me annoyed these days!I think this vena cava thing is what has me terrified and in a panic.I do have time,right?I keep thinking I'm gonna lose him in the next week or 2-think it's just my anxiety knowing that he is sick.Your stories are wonderful-I was up half the night reading threads from Trish and her baby,then ?chey and soon on to Abbi's story.I followed it all and felt like I was right there with all of you!My favorite-paws up!!Thanks again!

[Abbifoot]

Hi Fellasmom,

One place you may want to check out since it is fairly close to Boston - and I think you mentioned you were near Boston, is Animal Medical Center-Nashua, NH. There was a mention on one thread, I think it may have been Annie's, of a doctor that was practicing at AMC in Nashua who seemed to be highly recommended. I do not recall his name, but some of the others may.

[molly muffin]

I agree, I didn't have tons of luck finding onocology as a specialist under the surgeons using that search. It seems very general when it lists their intersts as all small tissue (and I do a search for within 50 miles)

I did find this about Angrell.

http://www.angell.org/vet-services/angell-boston/oncology/


he Oncology service at the Angell Animal Medical Center in Boston is uniquely qualified to provide your pet with a state-of-the-art, multidisciplinary approach to cancer diagnosis and treatment. Dr. Christine Anderson is the only double board-certified specialist in veterinary medical oncology and radiation oncology in New England. Dr. Carrie Wood brings over 16 years of veterinary oncology experience to the team. Dr. Jennifer Mahoney joined the team after completing her residency at North Carolina State University College of Veterinary Medicine. Together, their expertise allows for accurate and timely diagnosis and thoughtful treatment protocols to optimally manage your pet’s cancer.

Next there is this Boston Veteneary Specialist, with, specialist in Surgery. That is interesting, and requires a referral to get you in the door, but it said:

http://www.bostonvetspecialists.com/surgical.html

Pet owners in the Boston area have access to the latest surgical advancements from highly experienced surgical specialists in private practice at Boston Veterinary Specialists. Dr. William Henry and Dr. Catherine Briere are board-certified Diplomates of the American College of Veterinary Surgeons. They have decades of experience and have performed most veterinary surgical procedures thousands of times.

I liked the "thousands of time" part best.

I think it is the thrombus that is the most concerning? I really don't know since like you, both that and the vena cava would be worrisome, but I do know of dogs that it took weeks to get ready to be able to have the surgery. I just don't know what the thrombus part risks are. Maybe someone else on here would know about that part.

Hugs,
Sharlene

[frijole]

Just wanted to make sure you see this post from Trish in New Zealand who wrote this to another member last month. Included is her list of questions and how she made her decision. Hope it helps:


Hi

This all sounds very familiar to my boy Flynn! He is also 11 too and is a fox terrier cross. He was diagnosed with an adrenal tumour on the right side last November and had surgery to remove it in December. Look for Flynn's thread on here but I warn you now, it is massive as I am a postaholic!! His preop scan also showed a nodule on the left which was a big worry to me when deciding what to do but they were fairly certain it was a nodule, but as your specialist said there is no guarantee without biopsy which they cannot do without operating. Flynn had very high blood pressure so that is how they came to the decision it was most likely a pheochromocytoma as they tend to go together. Has your girl had her BP checked?

We made the decision to proceed with surgery once his BP was stabilised to remove the right tumour and examine the left during surgery. He is now 2 1/2 months postop and is coming right. Flynn's preop tests were all negative for cushings and on the scan they could see it starting in the adrenal medulla which are also signs pointing to a pheo. Because of this he did not need any cushing drugs preop. My vets told me that pheo tumours have a high chance of being benign, so even though we now have positive histology that his was a pheo, with this particular type of tumour you do not know whether it is a malignant type or not, even with the positive histology which is frustrating. He had to have CT scans that also checked his lungs to check for metastases before they would go ahead with the surgery. Thank goodness they was negative. His tumour also invaded his vena cava, but came out of there fine. During the surgery they closely inspected the opposite adrenal gland and were convinced it was a nodule related to age so they did not remove it or even biopsy it.

I wrote the excerpt below on another member's thread when they were considering surgery for their dog, so I have coped and pasted here.... hope it helps with your decision making.

_______________________________

This is what I based my decision on when trying to figure out what to do - keeping in mind Flynn was symptomatic esp from his high BP.

1. Expected life span for the dog - probably another 3 - 5 yrs for Flynn
2. Other health problems - heart, lungs no problems apart from BP. But past history of low grade hepatocellular carcinoma one year prior to finding adrenal mass. Successful surgery to remove his huge 650g mass with no sign of recurrence a year later.
3. Surgeon recommendations - yes he would do it for his own dog, yes he had experience with vena cava thrombus extractions with no deaths. University pet hospital - only vet training centre in NZ.
4. Risks - no sign of any tumour spread on CT including chest, understood all other potential problems eg bleeding, anaesthetic, vena cava complications, clots, pancreatitis, death
5. Prognosis if we treated medically - months only
6. Quality of life - for Flynn poor if we did nothing and death a few months away
7. Psychological - (me!) could I accept it if he died during surgery... probably would have hated myself for going through with it, but I still thought if he did die I had given him every chance of a full recovery and at least it would have been quick for him
8. Financially - yes I could afford it, if I keep working till I am 80 haha.. no, not really but it certainly is not cheap. Cost $3100.00 here in NZ including all preop scans including CT
9. Post-op care availability - support from vets, time off work for 2 weeks for me, should have taken more but ran out of leave but I'm lucky I have parents who look after him during day while I work

Now in retrospect a rocky ten weeks postop:

8. Would I do it again - YES in a heartbeat, it has given him a chance even though it has been hard and stressful and we have had a few setbacks, but keep in mind most would not have happened if we did not have the swab debacle
_________________________________

So while at this stage I have a positive story, I still watch him like a hawk, but hopefully he will continue to do well now that he has got over a few postop speed bumps! I have a few pics up of him in my album, shows him immediately postop and also a few from this past weekend when he is happily playing with his toys!! He was out of hospital the following day, although he did have to go back for a couple of issues!

Please ask any questions, as I am very happy to help and share my experience. I well remember the stage where you are now, I think one of the helpful posters here described it as feeling like a deer in the headlights and it sure was, but now you have all of us to help you along the way so very pleased you found us!

Take Care
Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
__________________

[Fellasmom]

Thanks for all the links,I'm going to go thru them now.Just made a nice dinner for Fella-how much I love this little guy!I'm trying to put all the pieces together but there is so much to this that I think I'm getting a little confused.The double board certified oncologist from Angell sounds great as do all the others.Here's the confusing part for me-is the double board oncologist also the surgeon?If not,do I still see her because I assume that someone with her credentials and training in oncology would have a wonderful surgeon on board her team?Or do I go straight to a board certified surgeon?It seems that the big places here like Angell and Tufts have an oncology dept that you would need to see first.So,I would choose a great board certified oncologist and then meet the surgeon?My head is spinning since last week!haha..And so sorry for taking up so much of your time but I'm trying to put all the steps together.Is this what I should be doing?
1.find oncologist/surgeon
2.have repeat US at facility
3.Discuss results with surgeon
4.Tumor type needs to be determined before surgery,so LDDS test?
5.Liver biopsies done-?doc said alot of false positives-is this necessary preop?
6.Preop meds to prepare for sugery

Thanks alot and sorry for so many questions-it is a very difficult disease to come to terms with and understand especially when I'm so heartbroken.I can't recall where I read it,but isnt there a wonderful surgeon in KY or maybe TX?And yes,the part about the vena cava worries me terribly as I feel he is a ticking time bomb.Knowing that is what has me sick.Thanks again for all your time!!

[frijole]

I understand why you are looking at oncology but frankly removing adrenals is one of the trickiest surgeries there is. That is what you want - a surgeon that has done lots of adrenalectomies. Period.

You meet with this person and he/she will do film work. If they think it might be cancerous their job is to remove it. No doubt they'd have someone on their team to consult with. But you aren't treating the cancer you are surgically removing it via adrenalectomy. That is what you need to focus on in my opinion.

Let that person answer your questions. So you can either meet with the one at VCA, or contact Tufts or Angells or elsewhere. Trust me - there is one that is the BEST between those places. I'd get on the phone and call all 3 places and get the bios and meet with those you want to meet with.

Use the list of questions from Trish as a guideline for the meeting but you can't plan much more because it might not even be cancerous. Different surgeons may or may not be willing to do the surgery depending on the film they do and their comfort level.

That's as far as I'd plan. Just focus on the short term which is finding a surgeon and getting their opinion. That's my two cents. Kim

[molly muffin]

Kim's suggestion is the right on. Adrenalectomies is the key, with thrombus, vena cava removal explicitly.
It's worth a lot more than 2 cents though.:D:D
Thought we might need a moment of levity there. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[Skye]

My little one had an adrenalectomy....I would also suggest surgeron with MUCH MUCH MUCH experience in doing them, and asking LOTS of questions before deciding who handles this extensive surgery. If you have any questions I can share my experience or of course your welcome to read through my thread. i also have the journey from that point ongoing...on a fb page for her. Its a very delicate surgery. And recovery is as well. There are couple of us on here that have had our little ones go through this, hopefully they will visit this thread as well.

[Fellasmom]

Good morning!
Thanks for clearing that up.All of these hospitals list their oncology team but don't say much about the surgeons involved,except to mention "a team including surgerons,etc".After looking furthur,"soft tissue"listed as interest/focus IS cancer surgery.I'm going to make some calls today to find out who the surgeons are in these facilities.
So,is it typical that I would prob want to meet with 2 or 3 surgeons to interview them,etc to find a good match of expertise?I'm just wondering because some of these places don't give out much info on the phone,make you see a IM first before even speaking with a surgeon.When any of you have a chance,could you do me a favor?There is a place in NY called Smith Ridge which is run by a vet named Martin Goldstein.He says that for soft tissue surgery,he has a board certified surgeon named Martin DeAngelis.I pulled him up and he sounds like he has alot of experience but could you take a quick peek and let me know if it's someone you would consider booking a consult with?I read his book which was fabulous when my Golden Kelsey had suspected brain cancer and my gf has taken her dog there a few times and absolutely loves their approach to vet medicine.Thank you once again!
I love all of your stories shared on these pages!I read a little bit each night.My mind has been all over the place but I really just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy hearing about your babies!

[Fellasmom]

Hello,
Well I did see the homeopathic doc but more so to pick her brain for surgeon suggestions.She said Tufts or Angell.Looked up Tufts and see a board certified surgeon with a specialty/interest in surgical oncology!I may have a winner!Of course,it is a holdiay today in Boston and also the Marathon so everything is closed.She was very concerned with the thrombus and said get appt sooner rather than later.She too has dog with Cushings and is familiar with this site.She did do a little acupunture on his back and he slept like a baby for the whole ride home!Gonna start reading more of your stories tonight.Right now watching the horrific explosion in Boston at the finish line.Apparently there have been deaths and lost limbs-just horrendous!!

[molly muffin]

Stay home. I just saw that another bomb went off at JFK Library about 30 minutes ago after the two at the finish line. Horrible. Just stay safe.
Well, I think that is good that you were able to have a chat with your holistic vet and she has a recommendation for you. So, give these places a call and have a chat with a surgeon, see whats what. I agree with her, the thrombus is most concerning.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

So glad to know you are ok! Take care and don't go anywhere you don't have to until this is figured out.

I, too, agree - get an appointment the sooner the better. Burn up the phone lines! :)

[Fellasmom]

We are home safe and sound watching the horror unfold on TV.Of course,MORE questions for you!!I'm so afraid to choose a surgeon,as if MAYBE there's a better one SOMEWHERE else!Did I not read somewhere on this blog of a fabulous one in Florida?Not trying to have someone do all the work for me but the nature of urgency due to the thrombus is causing me so much anxiety!I will travel if need be if I KNOW one is excellent and has the experience!Thanks,have a good day.

[Mel-Tia]

Lost for words regarding those bombs. Please stay in to be safe. What a horrible thing to happen

I am in the uk so have no knowledge of Board Surgeons in US, hopefully Skye or one of the others will be able to help. Trish is in New Zealand (aus actually at moment) so in this instance she has no info either.

I can't imagine the anxiety you are feeling so hoping you get something figured out soon

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxxx

[frijole]

What an insane day - like you needed more stress. Anyway you asked about going somewhere else for the surgery if a surgeon was top notch. One thing to consider is that not only is the surgery serious - so is the recovery. If you've read the statistics you know that infections are a huge concern. My point is that this isn't outpatient and if you were to fly somewhere else you could be away from the comfort of your home for some time, especially if you needed to make follow up visits.

You are in a wonderful part of the country and I have no doubt that there is a 'perfect' surgeon for you. I would focus for now on meeting with the surgeons in your area and I wouldn't waste time looking elsewhere. Again - deep breaths and focus on where you are right now.

You need to get confirmation that what was seen on the film is true because you don't really know. Regardless of where the tumor is, what type it is, you need for a top notch surgeon to take a look at it. Once you have decide on a surgeon and if you elect for surgery you will be given meds to give for a few weeks prior to the surgery.

You've done a good job of scouting it out - time to phone those guys and set up appts. If the surgery is too tough for them they should let you know. Just look them in the eye and ask the hard questions. Your gut will tell you everything you need to know.

Kim

[Fellasmom]

I have to say all of you are amazing.!I really don't know what I would do without you!I'm trying to take deep breaths but it's so hard to accept this is happening and the choices you have to make for your baby.When I think about the surgery,read about the potential complications-I'm sick!But the alternative is that I won't have him for much longer-my heart is just breaking!

Thanks for the advice of looking in my area.Because this is a tricky surgery,I'm frantic looking all over the place for a surgeon!!I'm looking for one that says"yes,we do hundreds of adrenalectomys"and of course,I'm not seeing that online.

Feel like I'm getting nowhere since Thursday.I did email the IM to inquire who would be doing the surgery and she replied"one of our board surgeons,you can talk to them if you'd like".I've asked everybody with pets where they would go and the answer is either Tufts or Angell.VCA which is where the IM is from got a so so response.

My plan is that I'm going to call Tufts 1st thing in the AM.I really feel like just bring him into the emergency room there if they don't have an appt soon.At least he can get an US at that time and I will be able to connect with them face to face and inquire about surgeon.I too feel that it is imperative to get an US on a much better quality machine and for an expert to read and interpret it.

I'm rambling here but it's time likes this that I really miss having someone in my life to just be there for me and my baby..Our pets are like our children and when something like this happens,you feel so ALONE in life.I'm thankful I have so many good friends but they are all out of state.I really look forward to hearing from all of you,it's such a source of comfort and I am so grateful to each and everyone of you.

On another note,the news is devastating.I just heard 2 people have died,one an 8yr old child!They do believe it was deliberate.How awful that such a wonderful event would turn so tragic!

[molly muffin]

I love the picture of your Fella. What a happy little face. Adorable.

Skye is in Texas and that is where her dog had the surgery done.
Florida University I think is where Doc had his surgery or radiation done, he is in a trial program I believe. Not sure if you have read their thread yet. That is a pituitary tumor though, and surgery for that is much, much rarer. I do think that you can find someone who has done many of them in your area, it's just a matter of making sure you have someone who has experience and a good success rate with the surgery.

It is horrible the news coming out of Boston today. :(

I'd call everywhere. What do you have to lose by making some phone calls? Take notes and print out your list of questions.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

Hi Sharlene,
Thanks,isn't he adorable?:).I think the reason I keep looking all over,out of state,etc is that since it is such a tricky surgery and not all that common,I'm assuming there is only a few vets that have EVER done it,never mind hundreds of times!I can't get to TX but would consider Fl if I couldn't find someone here.Maybe I have it mixed up..I thought the adrenalectomy surgery in of itself was rare but maybe I just read that an adrenal gland being maligant was rare?That's why I keep thinking how the heck am I going to find someone whose done hundreds when it's such a rare surgery to begin with?

I'm calling Tufts in the morning and will probably go there anyway because I AM getting another US tomorrow.I just can't wait another day.I'm back to work on Wed and am already sick about leaving him alone due to the constant worry of the thrombus.I had chest pain for hours today just thinking about all of this.Looking at that beautiful lil face today and just wanting to hug and kiss him all over and wish this horrible thing away.The surgery is his only hope and THAT scares the hell out of me!Feel so hopeless today.Thanks for everything!

[frijole]

We understand. I'm single and this group helped me mostly keep my sanity during my ordeal with my Annie. I seriously couldn't have made it thru it without them. I have family close by but they aren't as 'into' their animals as I am.. in fact I'm sure they thought I was nuts for all that I did but ... their loss. :)

Yes please call Tufts in the morning - make sure they understand how serious your situation is (or as it was explained to you) so that you can get right in.

Hang in there and know we are with you in spirit and anxiously await your updates. Love the photo of your dear one. KIm

[Fellasmom]

Thanks Kim!I'm going to bed and put an end to this day...To think only a week ago I was planning a fun trip to visit my girlfriend and now all I do is sob and have a pit in my stomach...I feel he is not going to make it,or not be a surgical candidate...then what?I just wait for him become sick...60 day..that's all I keep thinking about,I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack.

My family is the same,they like my dogs but they are "just dogs"...they have no clue.I feel sorry for them-I can't imagine never knowing what that unconditional love feels like!Def their loss!

I guess deep down inside I'm praying that maybe another US wouldn't be as bad as the first one.Denial on my part I guess but it would be so nice to get just a sliver of good news.Well,goodnight and thanks for all your support!
Patty

[frijole]

Patty, Just so you know I too am hoping that another ultrasound with a different set of eyes will bring better news. We've seen it happen before so don't lose hope. One day at a time. Hugs, Kim

[molly muffin]

I'll hope for something different too!!!!!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Skye]

i highly recommend shysies surgeon. and she has done ALOT of adrenalectomies and she is very very confident in doing them. She is a founder at Texas Gulf coast Veterinary specialist. Dr. Hedi Hottinger. AND trust me when i say.....she has had her hands full with ME alone. LOL......ask any angel on this forum that has fluttered along with me and shysie and they could tell you stories. lol. Let me know if you would like to talk.

[Skye]

and you know......they might even know who to referal to in your area......
not sure if travel that far would be so good for your baby prior or after....not sure. You could always ask them that as well.

[Fellasmom]

Good morning!
I was reading about Skye last night-what an incredible story and she made it thru!!I know that I appear selfish right now but I do read pieces of your stories everyday and they are incredible.I can't seem to get my head on straight with all of this but I wanted you to know that although I may not mention them,I LOVE reading them and how lucky your little ones are to have all of you as mommies!

Storm-I would love to go to Houston.In fact my best friend lives down there.Just finding a surgeon would diminish some of this stress.Realistically because I have to work,it prob would be too far-uggghhh...tho I do have lots and lots of sick time:)I've lived in NY for 10yrs and can stay with many friends ALL of whom love Fella so that would be an option.

I came across some vet Mark Peterson?Not sure if last name correct but he is online and specializes in endocrinology?I even emailed him to ask him if he could recommend surgeon.I noticed he worked at AMC in NY for many years.My golden Kelsey was brought there for a 2nd opinion for cancer many years ago and they seemed good.NY would be a lil better since if its really only a car drive away.

Without speaking to a surgeon and having them look at another US I feel hopeless and helpless.I'm rambling again but what else is new?:)
Years ago I was being worked up for ovarian CA-my tumor markers were up and a large mass was seen on my ovaries.Doc says I would need a hysterectomy and abd node biopsies but that it looked like it could be malignant.I freaked out!!Went to Sloan Kettering for a 2nd opinion.They didn't so much as look at the US I brought because they wanted to do their own.And their US was much longer and so much more thorough than the first!Two things-she did see the same plus alot more details and she wasn't all that afraid of it since she had loads of experience and had seen worse.It ended up to be benign but what a difference from doc to doc!

If they couldn't do the surgery,I wish they could just go in and take that thrombus the hell out!I know he would still have a horrible diagnosis but at least I woudn't worry every single second of the day!
I did ask and IMS said no.Is it wrong not to like her because she didn't insist on another US?I just feel like once she read thrombus she should have wanted to see it for herself.And of course,when I picked up the Benzepril she had called in for Fella last night,it was listed under Stella...little thing but I said,"thats it,she's done":)

Well,waiting for Tufts to open today.Was fantasizing about going down to Houston for surgery but it's the aftercare that would be the problem.I'm all over the map today,hope I get to Tufts.I sometimes think that alot of surgeons have God complexes and are overlyconfident.Would it be appropriate to ask of Tufts that if they couldn't do it,can they recommend someone that would with experience?

[Fellasmom]

Called Tufts and now I feel even worse!:(Only could speak to the tech who said that I prob wouldn't be able to see a surgeon today but that I certainly could bring him in today thru emergeny.He said that the surgeons there have def done this surgery but maybe 1-2 a year,so over the course of many years,it may be hundreds.He of course reminded me that this type of cancer can mets so that he would need a CXR.Thank you for having me worry about something else today.He wasn't sure that he would need another US since he already had one but he is no doctor and when I explained,he said that many times they do a CT instead.He said this type of cancer often has a poor prognosis so thats why it's not something they do 1-2 days per wk.Tho he said they do cavotomy all the time-whatever that may be!Now I'm sick but I'm just going to go to Tufts Emergency because it's the best I have today.I'm so overwhelmed!I so wish I didn't have to work and could just go to Texas!

[frijole]

LOL You are all over the map but I know you're just typing as you think and your mind is going crazy. That's because you don't have alot of info yet. Repeat - go to a surgeon and get their opinion. Yes the surgery is tricky but you are in one of the best places to be for this. Also understand that probably the person answering the phone call is not going to tell you whether they can do it or not. It is the surgeon. So get an appt with a surgeon. Give them the details of the situation as you were told and then meet with the surgeon and then you will have at least one other opinion. Good luck. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Hi Kim
Since it doesn't appear that I could even meet with the surgeon for a couple of days and I'm working tomorrow for the next 6 days.I'm a nurse and I work overnights and have a dog walker come in but am still terrified and can't wait that long!

Would you suggest going to Tufts today thru emergency?Of course I couldn't speak with a surgeon but they could do an US or more than likely a cat scan and a CXR with their equipment.I would be there to talk with someone and set up appt with surgeon at that time.I can't just sit and do nothing today as it is my last day off.
Thanks

[frijole]

Yes because it is better than nothing. Keep in mind you are working under the assumption that the film was read correctly. Again, know that the cush angels will be out in force with you hovering and praying for good news and giving you strength. By all means, go to Tufts today. Sending love& hope, Kim

[frijole]

PS I am off to work now but will check in when I can.

[Squirt's Mom]

I think this is a good plan for today. One, it will help give you some more information which can tell you which direction to turn. Two, Fella will be seen by those who will care for him and who are more experienced in this sort of thing than your GP or IMS are. Also, as you say, you can make an appt with the surgeon TODAY so you know when you can sit down with him/her eye to eye and chat about what they find today.

Know you do not travel alone - we are with you every minute, surrounding you with our hope, our strength, our love.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Fellasmom]

I just read your replies and your care and concern and the part about the "cush angels" had me sobbing.Thank you from the bottom of my heart.I know I'm so needy right now.I make a much better advocate when its not MY dog.I so wish I had all of you here as I'm sure all of you at one time or another have wished the same thing.But I love the cush angels and i will hold onto that for a source of comfort today.

Hard to believe this is happening.He is just so darn cute!He is still a terror barking at the mailman,skateboarders and trucks!Def has a napolean complex:)Going to Tufts once the horrendous traffic dies down and assume I'll be there for a few hours.Hope they can help me or at least guide me in the right direction.Baby steps and deep breaths!I always think the worst and need to be more positive.Now I'm obsessing about tumors in his lungs!:(

Thank you again and you all have a wonderful day and I will post once we come home.I love you cush angels!:)

[Squirt's Mom]

:p You sound like me! Let me share just one of my mental terrors.

One nite a couple of years ago, I was rubbing Squirt's belly when I felt lumps. Within a few hours, I had diagnosed breast cancer and was in a total panic. I called a dear friend just sobbing in fear and grief as I just knew I was right in my thoughts about cancer. The next morning we went to the vet. He examined her then told me he found some fatty lipomas on her chest. I said that's nice but what about the LUMPS in her belly? He leaned over the exam table and softly replied, "Those are boobies." I heard "poopies" and laid my head on her body and said, "You had me up all night bawling because you need to poop?!" To which Doc replied, "I said BOOBIES not POOPIES, you boob!" :p:D:p:D

She had lost her belly after starting the Lysodren and I hadn't felt her breasts in ages. When I did that night, I flipped out and went to the worst possible scenario as usual. :rolleyes::D So now you know you are not alone in this area either! ;)

[Buffaloe]

http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSurgeoninYourArea/

The above link will help you identify and learn about the board certified veterinary surgeons in your area and provide contact information.

My dog had a very large (5 cm), malignant adrenal tumor removed (adrenalectomy) at the age of 12 and lived another 3.5 years with an excellent quality of life. We had a very skilled and experienced surgical team, one of the BCS's who assisted was from Tufts. The board certified surgeons are the ones who know about the feasibility of a successful adrenalectomy. My surgeon told me all he cares about is the size of the tumor and its involvement with area blood vessels. Prior to surgery I asked him if it would be harder if the tumor had indeed invaded the caudal vena cava and he replied, " a little." Of course, they need to think your pup is a good surgical candidate.

Hang in there tough and good luck. I know it is very difficult.

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you both, hope you got through the traffic to get to Tufts and that you are getting a better idea of what is going on

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Did you hear back from Dr. Peterson? Dr. Mark Peterson is one of the leading endoc vet doctors in the U.S. If he recommends someone I'd definitely go with them.
Did you go to Tufts today? If so what did they say?
It's okay to be all over the place. We all would be exactly the same way. No one is ready for this, and when it happens we go into panic mode, with a hot wired "do something now" button already pushed. It makes us crazy sometimes.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Hi there

Think u have read Flynn's story, he had tumour in vena cava too. I would not spend more money on ultrasound, his surgeon wanted CT scan and they checked his chest at same time. His tumour came out of there fine, it was all in one piece not a floaty kinda clot. Decide on yr surgeon ASAP and get things underway!! No doubt about it this is a yuck time for you but glad to hear Fella is coping ok! I will be home early next week so can help a little more then, but you are going to feel way better when u have a plan in place
Trish :)

[frijole]

Checking in to see if you were able to get into Tufts today. Continued fluttering - Kim

[Fellasmom]

Hello!
Just got back from Tufts-was there all day but it was well worth it.This is gonna be a long one(as usual:)).All I can say is-what a difference another US makes but more importantly,the difference and interpretation of an US by a specialist.The news is not great and I think he thought I was crazy for feeling slightly more hopeful as he described it as "not so good".He def has a blood clot and possibly another small one or it maybe its all one.The blood clot is the worst and most worrisome part.He said the tumor is tiny and there appears to be a space between the tumor and the clot.He said they could have detached since the first US or they never were attached.He does have a feeling that somehowk,even if by a thread,they are attached or related to one another.Said they it appeared to be a functioning tumor and as per US,does NOT appear to be in the vena cava.The clot they can see seems to be attached to the vena cava.He said they wouldn't know if it were malignant unless they removed it.He said if it weren't for the blood clot,the tumor is so tiny and stated"we could get that out no problem,we do it all the time".BUT he said that for dogs who have surgery with a tumor with vena cava involvement and thrombus,their outcomes are very poor.He went on to say that maybe because their dogs are sicker with more co-morbidities.Ugghh...this is killing me cuz usually one worries about cancer but in this case,the tumor is the least of the problem!So, I kept pressing him about what we can do about the blood clot.He finally said that they could put him on anticoagulants which would more than likely break up the clot and it would be dissolved but that on occasion,it may dislodge the clot completely and Fella would suffer from pulmonaryembolism.:confused:.He said that I was asking good questions and that owners usually choose between putting dogs down or having the surgery that he refers to as having very bad outcomes.I was a little confused by that but he said something like "most people don't have the time to anticoagulate".I guess maybe he is referring to dogs with a huge invasive tumor with a clot formation who don't have the time to anticoagulate since it can be a few months or so.The plan is that Fella is going to have a CT tomorrow with an Angiogram so that they can take a closer look and really be able to look at this clot.Btw,wish I saw your posting earlier-would have saved me some money!:).I think he thinks I'm crazy that I found a glimmer of hope in that but I tried to explain to him that for the past 6 days I was basically told I had a choice of doing a high risky surgery with ?outcomes from IMS vs feeling like he was a ticking time bomb with a clot and invasive cancer and that he would have 60 days.The fact that they MIGHT be able to break up the clot???Well THATS a silver lining in my eyes!!Without a clot,they have a tiny tumor that they said was "easy" to remove-changes everything!Scary choice to start anticoagulants if he is able to since he did say that this clot could stay there for a long time(which means I would have all that time with him!) vs the off chance that by using anticoagulants,it could make the clot detach in its entirety and cause a pulmonary embolism!Gonna just take a deep breath and pray.He said surgeon and vascular will look at vessels and will be able to give me more information.

Very long winded tonight but wanted to tell you all something-we were there for many hours and we met so many beautiful dogs.So many of them came up and gave him kisses and I heard more than once"gee,he or she doesn't usually like other dogs too much,but she seems to like your Fella".All I could think of was CUSH ANGELS!!:)
Can't thank you enough for your care and support!I'm keeping all of your babies in my prayers,love reading your stories,some of them are too funny while others are nailbiting,and I love the "happy endings".God,we love our babies so much!I'll keep ya posted on tomorrow-wish us luck!!

[molly muffin]

Okay, I can get behind why this is better than what you were thinking before. It's not good, but it's at least a possibility maybe.
I hope that tomorrow gives you some good news about the clots. Anything else is just unacceptable.
I guess I would want to ask what the chances are of it coming loose vs dissolving? What has been their experience with using anticoagulants in general?

Hang in there, you are doing really good.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

First off, as you know knowledge is power and you started to get some answers today. That is exactly what you needed. Obviously the team there seem to have their stuff together and I like that you are going back in tomorrow for another look. This is what you need to do in order to get answers and determine the next steps. That is all you can ask for.

I really think you did the right thing by going where you did. Mom's guts are always right and remember that as you make future decisions.

I wish I could say I've read of another member in your shoes re the clot but I can't remember reading of another case... but obviously I have missed some posts over the years. ;) We do have nurses and other med professionals as members - perhaps they have some thoughts.

I'm glad you felt the wind from our wings today. :)I checked in a couple times at work and when I got home and was starting to worry about you guys.

So until tomorrow put the feet up and put your furry one on your lap and share hugs, kisses and enjoy the moment. That is all we can do in times like this. You gotta enjoy today.

And tomorrow you know we'll still be by your side. Hang in there, stay strong and as Sharlene said you are doing a fantastic job. Kim

[Skye]

is there any precautionary type things that can be done stints? splints? shunts? idk.......i really dont. I dont have much knowledge on clots. or if something indicates issue something that can be administered right away? positive thoughts...........positive thoughts............shysie and i holding paw/hands thinking of you and your baby

[Fellasmom]

Awww...thanks alot for all your kind words and paws crossed!Yeah,the clot has me stumped.Usually it's the tumor you would worry about but in his case,its so small and so easily removed(well,according to doc)if the blood clot wasn't there!

I'm a little nervous about him been put under anesthesia tomorrow but i'm staying positive things will be okay and at least the team will be able to have a really close look at the clots to determine best treatment.They may find that on closer inspection,the tumor IS attached by a thread to the clot or perhaps they are seperate.

The tumor aside,vets must have some sort of a treatment for clots.Usually people are admitted to the hospital and given IV anticoagulants for a few days.They nd to be monitored for hemorrhaging but the med prevents furthur clots from forming and the existing clot begins to break down and is reabsorbed.Sounds easy,right?:)

Hope I'm not wishful thinking but the fact that there may be an oppurtunity to medically manage and treat these clots is a breath of fresh air compared to my choices I thought I had this week-surgery or helplessly and hopelessly wait for blood clot/tumor to take him suddenly.THAT had me terrified!I could so go there and worry that they are going to have bad news tomorrow but I'm going to go to bed hopeful for a change.It beats thinking "OMG,I'm gonna lose him in 60 days if I don't have this surgery!".

If given a choice,I would treat the blood clot,even if it took some time.It would be taking a chance that the tumor may grow larger but I think the blood clot is what presents the most risk.So......tomorrow is a big day and I thank all of you for being there in spirit-I really did feel all of you today!!

[kaibosmom]

I am crying my eyes out right now as I read this. So many similarities to Kaibo. Having just read the email that he has an adrenal tumor myself I am trying to wrap my head around this all. Good to read your post and I will be watching. I know each dog is different and this is a difficult disease to diagnose and understand. Best wishes to you and Fella.

[Trish]

Hmm in my addled brain I am little confused, but after the afternoon I have had that not surprising! It must be in a vessel if they worry about PE? It cannt go from outside vena cava jump through and go to lungs. This is the trouble with ultrasound, not clear enough picture. Fella will be fine with anaesthetic for CT they will have anaesthetist there. No panicking allowed till we know what we dealing with!!!! I have a good feeling about this!! Small tumour is good, better outcomes so I am going to focus on the positives till we know otherwise. Have a good sleep as you need yr wits about you xx

[Trish]

Paws up fella!!!!

[Fellasmom]

Good (very early)morning
Trish,it's not you,the results of the US were confusing,even to them!As you had said,they need a CT to take a much better look.The blood clot IS in the vena cava but it appears that the tumor is NOT in the vena cava.That is surprising to them as well and they are not sure if clot is completely seperate from tumor,if clot perhaps broke off from tumor or if perhaps they ARE attached by a thread that just can't be seen on an US.My head was spinning as well,particularly because I was told"Fella has a a large invasive tumor invading the vena cava with thrombus".Now,his take is "Fella has a tiny tumor which appears to NOT be in the vena cava but has evidence of a blood clot against the wall of the vena cava".Different interpretation,maybe changes from last week,I don't know.Neither sounds great I will admit but very different perspectives and follow up from one doc to next.

You are all brilliant and so well educated with all of this!Along with your outpouring of love and support,all of you kept saying the importance of having an ultrasound done at a place with state of the art equipment and read by an expert.Although it may not have changed things completely,there ARE differences that they are seeing and a very different plan of action.The first IME didn't feel the need to repeat the US right away.She was quite content to look at the copied(and I mean copied on a reg copier on 81/2 x11 white pages,not even the film)pages,read to me their findings and tell me they would do the surgery!

Guess the moral of the story is this-find a specialist and get another US before despair sets in!We def aren't even close to being out of the woods and the picture isn't all that great but there is potentially a big difference in what they saw and commented on compared to what she and reg GP saw.And I have all of you to thank for that because of your persistence to get to an expert!!

Unless you have a sick animal,who knew that there was a difference between a GP vet vs IME?I always really thought they were one and the same.Learning here and it's all because of you!

I'm not sure if I ever would have went to Tufts if it hadn't been for all of you.I thought about that as I was driving home last night.After hearing the results from the first vet,he told me most get this diagnosis and put their loved ones down but that I could always go to a IME.I could have been one of those ones who sadly put my baby down believing it was the best for him.Only because of your insistence did I take him to a specialist and it still may not be great,but there is HOPE.Hope is something I didn't have and it's really because of all of you-Thank you!!!and love you guys!!

[doxiesrock912]

I learned that same lesson not long ago. Daisy was misdiagnosed by one gp vet, the second prescribed too high of a dosage, and from there I went to Cornell in Stamford and saw an IMS vet.

So far, we're right on track and the past few days I've seen an energetic step that I haven't seen in a few YEARS!

A PHOTO COPY????? That's just plain dangerous in my opinion and that vet should find another career that doesn't impact living things.

[Mel-Tia]

So glad you guys have some hope. It was long overdue. Eagerly await your next update

Big hug to you and a kiss for Fella

Mel
Xxx

[frijole]

I learned that same lesson not long ago. Daisy was misdiagnosed by one gp vet, the second prescribed too high of a dosage, and from there I went to Cornell in Stamford and saw an IMS vet.

So far, we're right on track and the past few days I've seen an energetic step that I haven't seen in a few YEARS!

A PHOTO COPY????? That's just plain dangerous in my opinion and that vet should find another career that doesn't impact living things.

The photo copy thing had me too. For those reading and trying to decide what to do with their dogs - please note the photo copy was read by an Internal Med Specialist and not a regular vet. So we can't assume that IMS are all the same. Another consideration for those in need of help is that IMS's aren't even an option in many parts of the US - only in large cities. Up until this year there were ZERO IMS's in the entire state of Nebraska. So again - going to an IMS isn't always the answer or an option. It is a matter of where ones lives and if there is an IMS experienced with what you need in the area. My two cents again. ;) Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

He said that I was asking good questions and that owners usually choose between putting dogs down or having the surgery that he refers to as having very bad outcomes.

I know why the vet said that - it is folks like you who have taken the time and initiative to learn a little bit about what Fella is facing so you can ask pertinent questions and to take action to see all the solutions are available who will be the parents to watch their baby like a hawk, follow directions, and go the extra mile. And that makes a world of difference in the prognosis. Fella will be in excellent hands - you proved that to him during the visit. You proved with your questions, your hope, your belief that this was better news, and your obvious deep devotion to your sweet boy.

See, parents like you, like all of us in this family, are rare parents for vets to deal with. They aren't used to parents who take time to learn about illnesses their pets have, to have the guts to speak up and be an educated advocate for their pets. Most would never have gone as far as you have. Most would have put their dog down the minute they heard the word "tumor" without ever finding out what could be done about it. Most are "owners" not parents. So, yes, you are rare and because you are rare, Fella has a much better chance to overcome this. The surgeon recognized the fact that you are a parent. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

As I've read all you & your boy are going through I can't begin to say how much I hope and pray that everything goes well. If anyone deserves a break it's you!
All the best wishes,
Dodie & Molly

[molly muffin]

Just popping in to let you know I am thinking of you and Fella today.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Boriss McCall]

Good luck today. Thinking of you & Fella.

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs from Sim and me, take care of you too!

[Fellasmom]

Hello
What a busy day today!!I loved all your your well wishes.It's funny how newbies like me, come to this board, and in a very short period of time,we all can't wait to get home to check our responses.I see so much kindness here and seems like wonderful friendships have developed-another thing we can thank our dogs for!!

Ok-I'm gonna have a heart attack-here goes.Doc just called me with results.Fella does have a very small tumor but a tiny tiny piece of it IS in the vena cava.And that tiny tiny piece is surrounded by a tiny clot.Probably why all the confusion with the US and why they needed to have a CT done.The piece of tumor in the vena cava is 4millimeters with a 4mm clot around it for a total of 8mm extending into vena cava.Now,that means nothing to me as far as the measurements go but they do say it's pretty darn small.Now,for the chest throbbing part-they want to do surgery tomorrow.This is the same doctor who said their outcomes aren't that good when it's grown into vena cava.He said it wasn't until he looked at the scan with the team,including a vascular surgeon,that he feels it is "favorable" and feels Fella is "lucky" that it is soooo tiny.He said the vascular surgeon would be doing the surgery.Is that odd?He has done about 40-50(which is low,right?-but I don't think they have done many as a whole with vascular involvement and/or outcomes are poor).Surgeon is a Dr Kudej,prounounced Kuji,which is kinda funny because when Fella feels better,he behaves like a 110 lb pit bull and I often call him Cujo.:)He said that the vascular surgeon said he has 80%chance of getting through this and feels that this is quite good.I do plan on picking him up tonight and hope to speak with the surgeon.Any suggestions??Does this sound right??I also need to ask him about the premedicating before,etc.He said they like to do high risk surgeries Mon thru Thurs so that extra staff are on in the event of an emergency.I'm soooo afraid!!

However,if he does not have the surgery,doc said it is assumed that the tumor which IS invasive,will continue to grow as well as the blood clots.He would be at a huge risk for pulmonaryembolism,hemorraghing or of course,problems from the tumor itself.

I looked up the surgeon,he is board certified and does do soft tissue surgery as well as vascular.I guess that's a great thing since he has the clot but only 40 frighten me!The doc said he also has worked at a hospital in New Jersey and does vascular surgery on humans.Kinda strange,huh?What do you think of 80%??Of course,I want a 100%,we all do!!!

In my heart,I know its the only chance he has of surviving more than a few months.And really who knows what those few months will consist of?.I cared for my Kelsey while she was sick and it IS so heartwrenching as I'm sure some of you know.

But,on the other hand,waking him up early tomorrow morning and kissing him goodbye as I hand him off to the surgeon(as I did today)is just awful!!He may not make it through and how absolutely devastating it would be to ever get THAT call!I'm thinking out loud right now-I'm not sure how that would make me feel.We all carry so much guilt around with us,we never think we do enough.I would feel awful that I shortened our time together.I'm not sure how to make piece with all of that but I do know,without the surgery,our time together may not be for very long and his quality of life that he even has now will most likely decline.

I know you can't make decision for me but any thoughts??
I'm on my way to pick him up now as I want him here so he can spend night with his momma,Gracie the Golden and Buster the cat.

[Fellasmom]

And as luck would have it,I was really anxious about going back to work tonight and leaving him alone but I slipped and hurt my shoulder.I went to my PCP and he thinks it's an exacerbation of an old disc injury and has me out of work for 2 weeks.:D:D:D:D:D..Perfect timing for my Fella boy!:D:D:D:D

[Squirt's Mom]

None of us can tell you which way is the right way. We might could tell you what we would do in your shoes, but that's about it. The questions I have always ask myself in these type situations is - am I putting myself or my baby first and what can I live with? If I choose X and things go wrong, would that be easier or harder to live with than if I chose Y and things go wrong? Would I find it easier to look myself in the mirror because I took action or because I didn't take action? Am I sure that my decision, either way, is for their benefit and not mine? Always the hardest one. Typically, there are no easy answers.

But this I do believe - we make these decisions out of our love for our babies and the decision will be the right one because of that fact.

We will be with you every step of the way no matter what you decide to do. You and your sweet Fella will not be alone for one single second.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

I think that Leslie has given all the pertinent questions. Of course the list that Trish had (and was posted on your thread earlier) when she was trying to make the very same decision that you are now trying to make is a good one. Chances without surgery, chances and life span with surgery, chance of this coming back, prognosis of a good surgery (80%, so we know that one). I hate to say it but, cost, can it be managed financially. Do you feel comfortable with your team, will they work with you, how long will he be in hospital, what kind of aftercare will he need, will they be evaluating tumor for malignancy, cancer cells, will this come back.
Some of that won't help you come to a decision but will give you a better big picture scenerio.
I have no idea if that is better to have the vascular surgeon and the one who does human vascular also or not. I've never actually heard of that before. Keeping in mind that what I know about these surgeries I learned about from this board.
I'm going to let the others who have been through this chip in with their comments.
Whatever you do, we are here for you. This forum is wonderful. You do make friends when you go through the same things, worry about the same things and in general we might have different personalities, but we are bonded by our love for our animals and our caring for all others going through some rough times with their furbabies and we all rejoice in the good fun times too.

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Leslie and Sharlene have a better way with words than me.

I just wanted to send you a hug and kisses for all the fur kids.

Know that if you do go ahead I will be on pins and needles waiting right with you in spirit as I am sure all the other angels will be

Mel
Xxxxxx

[frijole]

Did you ask them what they would do if it were their dog? Asking that and looking them in the eye is powerful.

I find it encouraging that they brought in the vascular guy and had a change of heart relative to whether the surgery could be done or not given the clot. It tells me they are on your side and looking for solutions. I guess they felt the vascular surgeon's experience brought more to the table than the other guy. Did you ask how rare this was? That would tell you if 40-50 is alot or not.

Did they tell you to give any meds in preparation for the surgery - normally with adrenal tumor removals they do. Perhaps as it is a different deal the approach is not the same.

You are really a pioneer here - going where no one that I can recall has been. Leave it to Fella to blaze a trail. ;)

I won't take your time - you need the little one on your lap. Perhaps a glass of wine? Hugs and love, Kim

[Buffaloe]

Tomorrow is awfully soon.

[frijole]

Ken's comment made me wonder - did you ask why they wanted to do it tomorrow vs say a couple days from now? Was it all just about scheduling? Do they think it's that time sensitive? Those are all important things for you to know. Again - you have to go with your gut. I trust you'll make the right call no matter what it is. Regardless know we will be with you. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Terrified of everything.Feel rushed but know i probably won't feel any different about it in a few days.Don't know what I feel in my heart.Feel bad that the past week he has been back and forth to tests and we haven't had alot of "quality"time.Don't want to wait either for fear of blood clot since delaying till Monday is 5 days away.

I spoke to the resident in the ICU who has spent alot of time with me answering my questions and I feel in my heart he is an honest good man..He listed the reasons surgery is right for him at this time:
1.Tumor is very small
2.Fella is strong,chest xray neg,no evidence of mets disease,Platelet count is good,labs are all good.
3.Now is the time to get this tumor out while it is still small.
He says they have "tons" of experience with a "simple" adrenalectomy.He also says they have done many surgeries with vena cava involvement but they have been on very sick dogs with very invasive large tumors.
As he said,their experiences are either simple and uncomplicated or very extensive with poor outcomes.Fella falls right in the middle so I'm never going to hear-"oh,we have had 60 dogs like him and have great outcomes".He does seem like an original!:)He said that Fella bounced back from anesthesia extremely well.I told him I get paranoid that some surgeons have "God complexes" and that frightens me since he may be overconfident and attempt to do something that would cause harm to him.He told me that they have stopped or done a modified/partial surgery at times when it appeared just too risky and assured me that he would be present for the entire surgery.

I did not get to SEE the surgeon.I called and asked to speak with him.He called me and we spoke for about 30minuties on the phone.He sounded very confident in his work.He is a soft tissue surgeon with an interest in cardiac/thoracic/vascular.He said no one knows till they really get in there but it looks like his tumor is tiny and has threaded through a small vein and that the end of it appears to be JUST dangling in the cava with the blood clot surrounding the tip.His hope is that he will be able to open the vein and squeeze it through the vein and not even have to go near the vena cava.He said he would def do this surgery on his dog because he feels confident that he can be successful.He said he has done surgery on dogs with huge tumors in the vena cava extending almost to the heart.He was not successful but performed the surgery at the owner's request.Fella should be in hospital for 3-4days.

I'm sick to my stomach!!I have to do this surgery,its the only chance he has.I asked all about what would happen if the surgery was not done.The worry about the clot,the eventual deterioration-I can't stand it!He said eventually the tumor would occlude the vena cava and a stent could be placed for comfort but that tumor would continue to grow,etc..I do know that if Fella doesn't have the surgery,when he does become ill,I WILL deeply regret not giving him a chance when he had the oppurtunity.But what if I lose him to this surgery?I'm in tears thinking this might be our last night together,our last everything!Tomorrow is going to be so hard!My heart is doing flip flops!

[Fellasmom]

Know I'm driving you guys crazy,still up,still talking,still crying!!Wanted to just add something else.I can't recall all of your stories so I don't recall if many of them involved vena cava and/or thrombus.My apprehension is I can't seem to get the good numbers/stats that you guys tell me are so important.Do you think this is difficult due to the vena cava/thrombus.I found a well recommended surgeon in NY.I called his office today,explained situation and he said he will absolutely not touch a dog with vena cava involvement.I was kinda surprised.So,maybe Tufts numbers/experience with this kind of thing would be no different than most?It makes me think I have to keep searching because they are not telling me they have done "hundreds" of them!I'm wondering if anyone has done hundreds???

[doxiesrock912]

It sounds like this might have been caught in time and being that Fella is otherwise healthy will go a long way toward his recovery.

We'll all be praying for you both!!!!

[Fellasmom]

I'm still going to bed heavy hearted,confused,not sure.They explained they liked to do this surgery mon-thurs so that in the event of an emergency,they had a full house.Vascular surgeon looked at it and said he could do it tomorrow and that is how that transpired.I do think they are worried about the blood clot as I am.Surgeon said it is exactly how he wanted it to be since he wants it firmly around tumor instead of shifting,breaking up,loosening,etc.As he said,he wants to snake it through the vein in one piece if he is able.Monday is 5 days away and alot can happen in 5 days.I don't know I feel in my heart except I love this little guy so much!!!

[doxiesrock912]

I know that you're frightened and upset. I would be too!

If you have confidence in the surgeon and supporting staff, I would follow his advice and he's planning well to want as many people available if Fella should need them.

Just as it is with people, blood clots breaking loose are never a good thing so this one being contained right now is a major good thing.

As scary as this is, blood clots don't vanish and I wouldn't take a chance on it moving or loosening.

[molly muffin]

Okay, it sounds like you have made your decision that you want to do the surgery? I have not been in your shoes, so I cannot say do this or do that. I can only say you have to go with your gut instinct of what is right. You have to be prepared either way with what can happen.

Once you have made up your mind, you have to be determined about it and never look back. You can't say, I should have done this or I should have done that. It will eat you up inside if you do and you and Fella don't need that. You will have to find that calm center, deep inside and embrace it and be strong, whatever way you go.

I know this sounds impossible but you'll need all your strength in the days ahead, whether it is through recovery or whether it is from just living and dealing with each day forward without the surgery.
We will be here no matter what you decide to do. You can keep looking if you don't feel confident with this group. You need to feel confidence with them. That is essential, you are trusting them with your most precious little fella.

They did have some positive things to say as far as why they want to do it now. So that is good.
Did they say what they thought about for life span of it they do the surgery vs if they don't? Quality of life, etc. I remember that was a big thing for Trish, the difference was years compared to months for her. It is not the same for every dog though, as you have to figure in current age, their normal life span, etc.

Will be thinking of you tonight. I know you will probably get very little sleep, but do try to rest and snuggle with Fella. I'm sure he'll love that.

Remember, we are with you whatever you decide. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

Good mornin
Well,we are going to go for the surgery.I'm so sick about this!I wish my mind was made up 100% about this but it is not.Here is what I do know:
1.How much time he would have without surgery is questionable.Surgeon said blood clot can dislodge at any time but if not,I may have 2 months of him looking fairly healthy like he does today.He does feel that he would likely begin to decline after that and does think it is an agressive tumor that has grown quickly.When I asked maybe maybe a year or 9 months?He shook his head no.He went through all the possible things that Fella may encounter without the surgery and the treatment that could be done to try to maintain some quality of life.He was very kind and not at all pushing me towards surgery.Somewhere in all of this,I heard avg of about 2 years or so?
2.We are both so exhausted.The hospital is very far away and I would love to postpone it.Today really is "too soon" for me and I would just love for him to cuddle with me for a few days and relax.However,they weren't rushing me but I really don't want to wait one more minute with this blood clot.
3.The lack of really knowing the surgeon has me questioning his ability.That really bothers me.And he hasn't done many of these with vena cava involvement.But I have searched all other the internet.I have called several places and have not been able to come up with much experience at all once it involves the vena cava.Was this anyone else's experience?As I said,the Tufts doc says "hundreds" of them,and refers to the non vena involvements as "easy".I guess THAT is the answer I am desperately searching for as well.This doc keeps telling me very nicely that I will prob never find a doc with hundreds of experience.He feels that his hospital is wonderful,owners come from all over the states,etc...and he says they see very critical dogs there.He said very compassionately"If I knew of a vet that had done hundreds of these surgeries,I would recommend them to you.This type of involvement is risky and not done too frequently.If you find someone who says they have done "hundreds" of them,they are lying.They are just not done that often.Ugghh!!
3.I have to do the surgery and NO,I am not prepared for the possiblility that I may lose him!!!I will fall apart but I just know that if I don't do it,when he starts to deteriorate,its gonna break my heart.I KNOW I will be consumed with regret and say "OMG,why didn't I give you a chance when you had the oppurtunity?"and it will too late.For that reason,I MUST give him a chance.What makes this the most difficult,is that I only just found out one week ago.He looks wonderful!He's alert,barking,wagging his tail and NOT sick YET.And that's the hard part-someone telling you he has cancer and is going to deteriorate and you have to believe them but can't imagine it because they still look so well!So,when I contemplate not going thru with the surgery,its cuz I've convinced myself that I'm still gonna have him at this quality of life.I somehow find it hard to believe them that his quality of life will decline.How can he only have months when he looks go great??I think if I had saw any real suffering up to this point,the decision to do surgery would be much easier.Dont know if that makes sense!

Well,off we go soon.I've loved him,I've kissed and cuddled with him all morning.I've told him what he has meant to me the past 10 yrs.That he is the best boy in the whole world.That he is strong and momma will be there with him always.I hate that they can't talk!!I think they know when they are sick.I want him to KNOW I'm doing this for him,to give him a chance!Oh,just so many emotions!!I'm sobbing AGAIN.Well,thanks for listening to my emotional rambles!

What else can I say except I love you my boy,paws up!

[frijole]

Paws up! Cush angels on alert and by your side. Know you aren't alone. Your decision is sound and based on unselfish love. We will be thinking of you all day. Sending prayers, love and strength. Kim

[molly muffin]

Oh sweetie you make perfect sense. I'm bawling too this morning. I will be checking throughout the day from work too. We will all be with you in spirit right by your side.
Prayers love healing thoughts all with you.

Hugs
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

Right by your side, sweetie! You, Fella and his surgical team are surrounded by the Cush Angels, our prayers are rising and positive thoughts are flying your way.

You will be consumed with terror and fear while the surgery is going on - we are right here. Talk, vent, cry, scream....we will hold you in our arms until you can breath again. You will not be alone.

A candle has been lit for Fella and all involved today, the smoke carrying prayers and healing white light for you and your sweet boy.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Tina]

I have not been able to post a whole lot on the forum for the past couple of weeks but want you to know that I have been following Fella's story and have been by your side also. I completely understand your feelings and I am bawling this morning also. You are not alone today, and I join in the fluttering with all the others. Many prayers to you, Fella, and the surgical team. I will be checking in from work when I can. Great idea to light a candle Leslie, I will go and light one for Fella too. Paws up Fella!

Love and many hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[Harley PoMMom]

We are all here waiting with you with our loving arms wrapped around you.

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

[Fellasmom]

Sobbing but with joy this time!!!!!Just got the call-they got the whole tumor and blood clot out thru the vein.Never had to go into the vena cava and no bleed during the procedure!:):):).I can finally breathe!!!It went so well,quickly without incident that they called to tell me they would like to biopsy the nodule on the spleen and also wanted to report that Fella had a "object" in his stomach-I panicked and asked tumor???No,its just something he might have eaten,but we would like to remove it while we are here since it could potentially contribute to post op complications.Well,it felt so good to laugh and laugh after so much crying.It seems as though Fella with the ravenous appetite and not being able to eat anything after midnight,decided to take a little trip down to the litter box for a midnight snack!:eek::eek:.Gross but it felt good to laugh for a change!!The Cush angels were hard at work today-I could feel them and read all of your posts today and felt the love and light from each and everyone of you!!We are not out of the woods yet but heading there Thank God!!!!!!Will keep you posted!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

WooHoo!! So happy to hear that the surgery went well! Now, we will be praying for a speedy and uneventful recovery. Please do keep us posted. So happy for you both!!

[Mel-Tia]

That's the best news

So pleased for you both

Mel
Xxxxx

Naughty little monkey for eating objects instead of food, wonder what it was?!

[Squirt's Mom]

:cool::cool: Woohoo!!! :cool::cool:

[frijole]

Oh my God I am elated! Tell that surgeon he is our hero! This is the best news. Good going mom and Fella. xoxo Kim

[molly muffin]

That is the most wonderful news EVER!!!!! He's our hero surgeon of the month! :) And Fella is our big brave furbaby and you are one of our most courageous of parents.
gee, now I've got tears of happiness running down my face (of course I'm at the office) and everyone wants to know whats wrong, I'm like nothing, just happy, got some good news today. LOL :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

This is great!
hugs,
Sharlene

[Fellasmom]

Fella is doing awesome!Felt a little like the pain in the butt,over protective mom but began to worry since I hadn't heard from them-of course I was imagining that the spleen had ruptured,there was something awful in the stomach,etc...I really must learn how to think positive!So I called and doc said that all his vitals are stable,they increased the pain med since they thought he may be a tad bit more uncomfortable and that he was already standing!!:).What an emotional rollercoaster this has been!Thank you all for your encouragement,wisdom,love and continued support.I really would not have been able to advocate for him as I did without you.

Once I'm not so scattered,there are so many stories I've read and wanted to comment on.And really appreciate the humor that you've passed on at times.One thing I have learned is that all vets are not created equal.I cringe when I think of the IME so readily agreeing to surgery from looking at an 81/2 x11 copy of an US.That's all the complaining I'm doing today!Today I am rejoicing and so grateful.Going to see my little boy tonight.

[doxiesrock912]

That's absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!!!
Cat poop = the king of all dog treats.

Daisy has done the same, disgusting thing. We have a gate between the bathroom where the litter box is and the rest of the house.

[Fellasmom]

Haha...I don't know WHAT it is about the cat poop they all love either!!One day I looked at him and he had a few dried pebbles of litter along his gum line.I thought...ugggghh I kiss that little face all the time!Somethings I'd rather not think about!:)

[Mel-Tia]

Happy visiting. Wonder if thy will tell you what they found in his belly!

Safe trip, look forward to the next update

Mel
Xxxxx

[Trish]

Woweeeeeeee this has moved along very fast since I last popped in, so very excited to hear it all went well for you two. Little monkey getting into the litter!! How did they get it out? Hopefully they did not have to cut into Fella's stomach? Maybe they took it out via gastroscopy? Hope so anyway.

I am so pleased they got it all out, if I had been here I would have been saying I would have gone ahead if I was in your shoes. I was in your shoes only 4 1/2 months ago, with vena cava involvement too so I really understand that feeling of dread and all the "what if's...." like I was sending him to his doom. But what a relief afterwards.

I remember I felt like I had won lotto when I got the phone call to say that surgery went well, I will have all my fingers crossed and I will make sure Flynny has his paws crossed to that recovery goes uneventfully and Fella is back to full health asap! I am so excited for you!

PAW'S UP FELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLA! We with you all the way xxxxx

[Trish]

Oh yes, I forgot to say feeling like a pain in the butt, overprotective Mom is quite normal :D:D, for us K9 Mom's anyway. I do it all the time!! Don't mess with a pet Mom in full flight!! xx

[Fellasmom]

Just got back from seeing Fella and having a little meltdown.I don't know whats wrong with me!I hate that I worry too much,have a hard time letting the what if's go and always go to doom and gloom and despair.Both calls from ICU resident and surgeon were enthusiastic,positive-Fella did great,surgery went wonderful,we are more than halfway out of the woods,etc...I guess I expected a little more of that when I went up there to see him.

The nurse and covering ICU doc seemed very guarded and careful with their words.I was expecting that same type of enthusiasm and when I didn't see it,I got worried and scared and now am obsessing!

I think Fella surprised them all immediately after surgery and even stood up!But I think at some point it all caught up with him.It broke my heart to see him in pain,with all the IV's,foley cath and belly incision.They told me that he had a brief episode of elevated heart rate with decrease Oxygenation but that it corrected itself but they thought it would be good for him to have oxygen overnight.They said his heart rate was ok now,oxygen good,and that he was making enough urine.They said all they wanted him to do tonight was to continue to make urine and sleep.He occasionally would look up quickly and was very disoriented.He did appear to be in pain and they said pain had been an issue and they were titrating the fentanyl to give him more to keep him comfortable.So what's wrong with me that I have a pit in my stomach.I KNOW it was a huge surgery but because he came through it so well,I guess I expected a glowing report rather than a guarded one.It almost made me feel they were holding back something.They said he was the sickest patient there and they were watching him very closely.They said the looked better now than he did an hour ago.They kept saying what a huge surgery he had.(prob because my ? were becoming obnoxious).I kept asking about his breathing.He seemed to be taking really deep breaths from his abdomen.She mentioned pain and the also said something about watching for abdominal compartment syndrome.Well,that's all she had to say!Now I'm asking her a thousand ? about it and she basically said if it were,they would have to go back in and he may not survive the second surgery.I then told her that I was extremely anxioius and the type that was prob going to now go home,google it,obsess about it and have another sleepless night.What is wrong with me?She kinda smiled and told me to forget she ever said anything about it-it's just something they routinely look for postop.I left feeling so disheartened and worried.My poor baby looked to be in so much pain,and all I could think was "I'm so sorry I put you through this".I am consumed with guilt and worry now.I'm afraid to sleep....I'm so afraid of losing him after all this!

I'm gonna try to read thru some of the other posts to see if others felt the same way.Of course,I'm obsessing over abdominal compartment syndrome...why???The doc said he looks good NOW and we take things hour by hour in here.Why am I so worried?My gf thought that was great news so why am I afraid to go to sleep tonight?

Trish-I just recently read about your surgery-so glad it went well and thanks for the paws up!Gonna go back and re-read it.

[frijole]

I haven't been through this with my dog nor even myself so I can only speculate. You go through a major surgery, you wake up and you are still heavily drugged and feel great. The meds start to wear off and you feel like total crap. Your ring the bell (bark) and they realize you need a tad bit more medication so they knock you out. ???

The docs are right - you are halfway there. The biggest thing was you got that nasty blood clot that could be fatal at any time out of there. Now your baby just needs to rest and he has around the clock eyes watching him. Every minute as he sleeps he gets stronger.

Meanwhile we pray, flutter and send you strength. Don't get me wrong - I would be the exact same way. That's what mom's do. We worry. You are normal. Just know that you unselfishly gave Fella the chance to live. You can't second guess that huge act of love. Not for one minute my friend.

I'm sure if you read through Trish's thread you will see highs and lows as well. Hang in there and know we will keep vigil over you as well as dear Fella. Sending huge hugs and alot of strength. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Aww..thanks Kim!I keep telling myself same thing-every hour is one more hour away from that horrible surgery and one more hour of healing.It WAS a huge surgery but because he did so well I expected only minimal complications.I can't even think about life threatening ones-that's what has me so frightened.I imagine the same thing with the anesthesia as well.In the beginning,you feel the effects but as it wears off,you really feel the effects of the surgery.Just hope my angel sleeps through the night and is comfortable.I hate all this worry!I was just reading Trish's thread-I need some of her positive attitude!

[doxiesrock912]

You need sleep too my dear.

[molly muffin]

Big Hugs.
I hope that Fella does well tonight. I don't think it is rare for them to get oxygen (is it a tent they put her in?) after surgery. I think that like with any surgery on a little one that things are very delicate afterwards. I think the recovery team might be more guarded than the surgical team. Each one has a different job and until theirs is through they probably won't stop worrying either.
Kim said everything so much better than I could, but I do echo her sentiments. You have given Fella a chance that he wouldn't have had. That is what you hold onto.
I hope that every single day he continues to improve. Remember that he will be quite a bit more tired for awhile, recuperation takes time. No running around and jumping and carrying on for awhile. Read the recuperation part of Trish's thread too.
We're right here, checking in all the time on you and Fella.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Skye]

i would ask they keep him at least ONE if not TWO more evenings. Just like humans, sometimes i feel like they let out of hospital to soon. lots of quiet, rest, calm, environment will be needed. or if you can stay in hotel near by with him would be good. Trish and I both stayed in hotels near hospitals where our babies had surgeries. Call up there and get reports tonite. Maybe it will help ease your mind. Remember....YOU have been through a major surgery too........sort of.....this is a shared journey your on with your baby. Just like when were sick they are right there with us. Of course your having a melt down. i think everyone on this forum has had at least one, I know i have for certain rambling babbling snotting crying, sobbing, trying to type, i mean the real ugly girl type crying. Cant really speak for anyone for me but i am thinking we have all had the melt downs and rest assure beautiful, you are not alone....you are surrounded by all these angels and you will feel the calm wash over you, you will feel a quiet. and its beautiful. it gives you that moment to catch your breath. sharing a video from my little ones face book page.....just breathe......https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150507836702265&set=vb.174750042613440&type=3&theater

[Buffaloe]

What the people at the facility said about it being a huge surgery is absolutely correct. I think you are more than half way out of the woods. Your boy endured a big-time trauma and it's going to take him some time. It took Shiloh three days before she perked up and ate well. They all recover differently but I expect you'll see him get better every day. I'm so glad he made it through the surgery so well.

[Trish]

Flynn was on oxygen the first night, when I went to see him his breathing was a bit grunty too and he looked very sorry for himself, so what you saw is not unusual. It is just we are so not used to seeing them like that. Look in Flynny's photos, there is one of Day 1 after surgery. When I went in for that first visit the night of surgery a resident was sitting with him in amongst all the wires and holding up his head to make sure he was breathing ok and he was taking those big abdominal breaths too. So don't freak out, sometimes I think it best they don't tell us ALL the things that can go wrong like that compartment syndrome. I think I was warned about that too, eek. But very unlikely to happen!!

He is in the right place getting excellent care so get some rest as you will need it in the next few days when you get him home and are watching him like a hawk!

When Flynny had his big liver op a couple of years ago, the first day postop they were worried something had gone wrong as he was crying so much, he had tons of pain reflief too. So they took him to have a scan but there was no problems. He just hated being in the pet hospital and was crying as not used to being in a cage etc. When I took him outside for a wee he would stop crying straight away, white coat syndrome they called it! So don't freak out, that all sounds quite normal for first post op night to me. Maybe they will let you sit with him in a quiet place tomorrow and keep him calm.

Focus on the fact the tumour is gone, but it is going to take a while to recover and that is why he has to have some short term discomfort for the long term good!!!

I took Flynn back to the motel the next day, but he had to go back for checkups twice a day. Too early I think, in hindsight I agree with Skye he should have stayed a couple of days more but they were trying to keep him calm and he was better at that away from the hospital. I was also fine giving him his pain, anti coagulants to stop clotting and anti nausea injections in his scruff. I bet he is going to look better tomorrow and will be very happy to see you!

Paw's up wee Fella!! xx

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin, sweetie,

Oh, my, do you bring back memories! When Squirt had the tumor and half her spleen removed I was a total basket case. I was so bad the hospital finally set a phone schedule for the times they would call me and report in. Apparently, they couldn't get anything done with an hysterical woman calling every 15 minutes. :o But every minute she was in that hospital seemed like years to me. My mind went far beyond all the complications they had told me would be possible following the surgery and I was in a living nightmare the whole time she was in the hospital.

The first time I saw her, I nearly hit the floor. She looked ragged and so helpless, there was confusion and fear along with excitement in her eyes when she looked at me. She wagged her tail then wanted up and out of that cage to go home right then. And, oh my word, the gash on her belly was huge and so ugly looking. :( They hadn't let me see her right after the surgery so I didn't see all the equipment still hooked to her but she did still have an IV - and that was more than enough to make it all very, very real. I think the staff decided I didn't need to see that stuff since I had spent the time of the surgery in the waiting room pacing, bawling and hyperventilating. :o They knew I lived only a short way from the hospital yet I hadn't gone home - they recognized a basket case when they looked at me. ;) When I did go home, I walked around with the phone in my hand either desperately wanting them to call or fighting the urge to call them again and I usually lost that battle, calling over and over and over. :o

Seems like she was in the hospital 2 nights then came home. She was home one day when she got sick - refused all foods and water, was very nauseated and I could tell something was bad wrong. I called the hospital and they said bring her back immediately. Her pancreas had flared up pretty badly after she got home because they had to move that organ during the operation and it is a very finicky, touchy organ. She spent another 2-3 days in the hospital then came home for good. I think the return to the hospital was worse than the original surgery. When she came back home, I had a whole list of things to do and not do for a few more days to help the pancreas settle back to normal.

I was soooo happy to have her back home where I could see her, touch her, smell her - back where she belonged. Yet it was so scary at the same time. If her ear twitched I went into hyper-drive, panicked over what that might mean. :rolleyes: I think I spent every hour on the site talking and crying from the moment I first learned about the tumor...and our family was right here the whole time, holding my hand, letting me fall apart in their arms. I firmly believe the love, the prayers, the positive thoughts from this family, and the Power those things invoked wrapped us both in a protective shell that carried us through.

Your baby boy has been laid open like my Squirt was and it is hard to see yet those hard things saved my Sweet Bebe's life and gave us the last 4 1/2 years together. Keep the faith, sweetie, hold fast to hope and know we are right by your side every second.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Fellasmom]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !I'm on my knees praying,sobbing.I feel like I'm dying.Why did I do this to my little boy???????Just recieved a call.Fella had resp distress,they thought it may be a pulmonaryembolism but he went into resp arrest and is now on a ventilator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He also stopped making urine.The had given him fluids in hopes of urine but still none.If he cont with no urine,they would have to start dialysis.I'm dying...what did I do????She said she thinks it is either renal failure and pulmnary embolism or something called systemic inflammation.When asked about survival....she said if it were just one thing,he may survive.With two,not sure since most owners the cost would be a factor-with people you could wait and see if they improve.Dialysis would be about 2500 per day.I'm dying....she said about 2hrs ago that he was ok on the ventilator but that if he didn't produce urine in the next few hrs he would need dialysis.I can't even think straight.This little guy flew thru the surgery like a champ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And now THIS???

If I put the cost aside(and I really don't care), I feel in my heart that he deserves at least another 24hrs to see if we know whats wrong,in what direction he goes.I know I'm not ready to let him go...am I doing TOO much??should I say goodbye NOW????I"m sick.Please please help me and pray for him

[Fellasmom]

They said I could go in and see hiim,although he prob wouldn't know I was there.I sit here,2 hours away,and die inside that my baby is so sick and I'm not there!!I need to care for my other dog,shower and go there.I need to be there cuz I'm his mommy-I already feel guilt and in some ways abandonment.I told them to keep telling him that mommy loves him.I don't know if I can face seeing him,they warned me he doesn't look good cuz he is ventilated,but I know i have to.God,why is this happening??

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, bless your heart and Fella's, too! :( I am praying hard this is just a bump on the road and he will perk up very soon. Please let us know as you learn things and remember we are with you, honey.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Squirt's Mom]

And you did not do anything to him other than give him the best chance he had at dealing with the hand he was dealt. You are a great mom and have no right to indulge in guilt - you have done nothing wrong.

[Dodie]

I am praying for you and Fella also! You only did what you thought was best to give him every chance. Although I'm very much like you and so understand how you feel, your little guy knows you love him.

Dodie & Molly

[frijole]

Hang in there and driver safely to the hospital. Cush angels are with you and praying our hearts out. Hang in there dear Fella. We've all grown to love you. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Thank you.I just recieved some more information.The good news is that Fella's own breathing has improved within the last hour or so.He is still being assisted with ventilation but he is also breathing better on his own.The hope is that he would continue to improve and that they could stop ventilation.He is being treated for a pulmonayembolism anyhow with oxygen and fragmin anticoagulation.That is a huge plus and has given me a glimmer of hope.The problem is his kidneys.He only has very little urine output.They said they would check/try a few things to try to jumpstart them.I agreed to dialysis for today if need be.
Anyone have any kidney problems with this surgery?The adrenal sits right on the kidney.I'm hoping and praying that maybe just like the pancreas,the kidney can also go into a little "shock" or whatever.He just needs to pee!!

They did talk about dialysis.In the hospital,short term would be life saving.If he pulled through but needed dialysis long term,he COULD survive and go home but would need dialysis 2x per wk.Now,can't wrap my brain around that right now BUT the most important thing is that even if that scenario were to happen,they say dogs needing dialysis usually live 2-3 months.Well,that was the very reason he had the surgery to begin with.That said,that really wouldn't be an option that would be in the best interest of him.

So,I ask for your prayers that Fella's breathing continues to improve and that his kidneys begin to work on their own.I'm going to go up there in a little while,even if it's just to sit in the waiting room for the day as I find it comforting to be close to him.Paws crossed and up this time...and if it didn't make matters worse,apparently there is a big shootout here in Boston with the men who planted the bombs.The city is on "lockdown"..they have already killed 2 more people,roads are closed,etc.

[frijole]

We have Fox News on here at work so we can keep up. The whole nation is watching trust me. You just focus on your little guy and getting there safely to be with him and available for him. We will do tons of praying. More strength sent your way - Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Happy for any improvement! And praying the trend continues and he is peeing rivers very soon. Please be careful as you travel.

Prayers rising for our sweet boy.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you both with love, prayers and positive thoughts. Hoping he has urine output by the time you arrive

So sorry this has happened.

Mel
Xxxxx

[Boriss McCall]

Sending prayers your way.. I know this sounds weird.. but, hopefully they will let you see him. I think he will just sense you in the room & sometimes that gives them the extra push they need to get better.
Praying praying praying...

Hugs to you!!

[molly muffin]

Come on Fella, pee, pee, pee. I hope he pee's soon and it's plenty, that he is making some, a little is a good thing. Have the surgeons been in to say why they think this happened after the surgery went so well?
My heart is with you. Beating like mad.
You gave him the only chance he had to make it long term. That his happened, was not and could not have been predicted by any one.
Hang in there and know that we are all beside you in spirit and would be there in person if we could.
You take care and as Kim said, Drive Safe!!

hugs,
Sharlene

[addy]

I have not been posting but have been following along. I pray with the others Fella will pull through. It is very hard to look at our babies when they seem well and happy knowing we are about to put them through an ordeal that gives them a chance but they cannot tell us if they want it and we cannot explain it to them. Perhaps if we were faced with these decisons when they were sick, it would not be so hard for us. I understand your pain.

love and hugs for Fella, I pray that things turn around.

[frijole]

OK I'm doing the PEE dance! You know like a rain dance? Come on little fella. You can do it.

[doxiesrock912]

It could be just that his kidney was shocked by the surgery or his whole system is adjusting to his new normal. If you hadn't done the surgery, that clot was a ticking time bomb so please stop second guessing yourself.

We're here and still praying for you both.

Thankfully, the vet recognized the serious nature of the surgery and had adequate staff available.

[Fellasmom]

I just lost my boy.Please help me.

[Dodie]

I am so very sorry ... You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Dodie & Molly

[frijole]

My heart is breaking with you. Please don't feel responsible. You gave him the only chance he had. Fella will be honored here and we will never ever let his memory fade. I am at a loss for words and crying at work. I am sending you every bit of strength I have. Kim

[lulusmom]

I am so terribly sorry for your loss. I'm typing through tears as I know the incredible pain you feel right now. Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Godspeed Fella.

[Fellasmom]

I'm sitting in my living room looking at his little water dish and winter coat and leash.I was just getting there when they called.She said they found a clot to his right kidney and that while she was in process of mobilizing dialysis unit,his heart stopped.They rescitated him but that he wasn't able to maintain a blood pressure and low oxygenation.She said"you need to tell us to let him go"They had a team surrounding him in the event his heart stopped again which she said "he is going to die,you need to tell us to stop"He is suffering,we need to stop"....sobbing,OMG my poor Fella boy!!!My sweet sweet boy.How could he be gone?I feel I betrayed him.He didn't even want to go yesterday and I picked him up to take him outside.He wasn't even showing any real symptoms of being sick.I feel like I forced him there and made his death so tragic.He will never understand why his mommy would do THIS to him!They wrapped him and took him to me afterwards and I held him and kissed his little nose and said how sorry I was that mommy brought you here.I can't help but feel awful about this.Maybe they killed him?Maybe they didn't know what they were doing?He was on steroids but they didn't put him on anything before?I even asked her and she said they don't but the other vet said they would have.I can't believe my little boy is gone.I can never forgive myself.To think,he was playing with his ball and chewing his bone just yesterday.His little white hair is on my couch and bed-I'm sobbing-how could this happen and why??

[molly muffin]

Oh no. I don't know what to say. This is not what was suppose to happen, the surgery went so well. :( Much love and hugs to you. This who day has been shocking. Did they say what happened? where you able to speak to the surgeons?

Please know you are in my heart and prayers. I just do not know what to say.
Sharlene

[Spiceysmum]

I am so sorry for your loss. Thinking of you.
Linda

[molly muffin]

No. You gave him a chance at least. The clot could have come loose at any point, yesterday, today, tomorrow. You would not have done the surgery without a very good reason. In your heart you know that, it's just so painful right now, but you cannot beat yourself up over it.

I'm sorry I'm crying too right now so hard to type. My heart breaks for you and Fella.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Boriss McCall]

oh no.. I am so sorry. I know your heart is broken. YOu only did what you thought was best for Fella. You can not hold yourself responsible. If a vet was giving me that much hope I would have done the same thing you did. It is not your fault.
I am so so so sorry you are having to feel so much pain. :(

[frijole]

Now I am a blubbering baby and had to tell people why I'm crying out loud. I know you feel responsible but there is no way you could have known about the blood clot by the kidney. Oh my this is just so sad. I have to go to a quick meeting. BRB

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, no, no....oh, honey, I am so so sorry. The tears are just pouring.

Sweetheart, I know you are feeling guilty, like you did this to your precious baby boy. Please don't. Fella knows how very much you love him, that you made this decision because you believed it gave him the best chance at a full life. He does not blame you in the least and does not want you to blame yourself. He knows, just as we do, that the choices you had were hard, very hard, and you made the right one. From the moment you learned there was a problem you poured your whole self into finding help, the best help you could. You started learning so you could help him, too. Honey, you couldn't have done any more. You gave your all. And your sweet boy knows that.

Stay with us, talk to us. We are all crying with you as we Sing your precious Fella across The Bridge.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Budsters Mom]

I'm so sorry,
Tears are flowing. I know that your heart is breaking right now. Sending lots of hugs,

Kathy and Buddy

[Mel-Tia]

My heart breaks with yours to hear this news

I am so so very sorry

[frijole]

We have a special forum where we honor our angels. At some point you can honor dear Fella should you desire. In the meantime, we also have a special place where we pray and honor. I'm lighting a candle to honor Fella right now. Kim

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=K9C

[Harley PoMMom]

My heart is breaking for you and my tears flow with yours. I am so terribly sorry for the loss of sweet Fella, he was such a special boy who, indeed, is loved by such a wonderful and loving Mom that tried everything within her power to help him. There are no reasons for any guilt here, YOU, my dear, did everything humanly possible going above and beyond for your sweet boy.

We are here for you, please know that.

With Heartfelt Sympathy,
Lori

[Mel-Tia]

I am also lighting a candle for your boy. Wish we had more than words at this time

[labblab]

I had not had the chance to write to you before, and my heart is breaking that this should be my first note. I cannot tell you how much Fella has touched all our hearts. Your brave, dear boy!!!

In time, you will want answers to what went wrong. And you deserve to know exactly what went wrong as the vets understand it. But I do believe there are mysteries to life and to death that even the doctors cannot answer. What we do know for certain, without any question, is how much you love your little boy and how brave you were to go ahead and give the doctors the chance to save his life. Because with the tumor invading his blood vessel, to do nothing would have been certain death. You gave him the only chance he had. You were brave enough to risk this heartbreak in order to give him that chance.

It is a tragedy that he did not make it. But any suffering was short. And if his kidneys had stopped working properly, his mind was probably already in a state of dreaming in which perhaps he already was running ahead to green fields with a peaceful heart on healthy little legs. Knowing how much he is loved. Always knowing how much he is loved.

Fella has no more suffering. But your suffering has just begun. What a shock and so much pain for you to bear. There is not much we can help with right now. But one thing you need to know is that we are here beside you and we will stay here beside you. At any time, day or night, you can come here and talk to us. You can talk to us about your pain and we will understand. We promise.

Sending so many loving hugs to you across the miles. And honoring your precious little boy with my candle.

Marianne

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm so so sorry. Especially when it sounded like he came through the surgery so well. It sure sounds to me like you did everything you possibly could including not letting him suffer.

big hugs to you and fly free Fella. Judi

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, when we get to Heaven
We know that we will find
The souls that once we loved
Who left us all behind.

Some left us at the right time
They left this world in peace
Others left too sudden
Without the chance to say Goodbye,
They were gone before we had
The chance to even cry.

There's a special place for grownups
A special place for kids
Me? I'll be on the other side
The side called Rainbow Bridge.

Across the dark green meadow
A'top the hills I'll run
Where the colors from the rainbow
Glitter from the sun.

And there I'll find my sweetheart
Running fast toward me
To my arms where he belongs
for all eternity.

by Jean McColgan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I have not written before but have just read about your "lil Fella" and your heartbreaking story, no one is ever prepared for or wants to believe. Please know that we all feel your loss. Before today I did not know Fella, but I have sat and read each page with more tears flowing with every page I read...stopping only to wipe the tears so I could continue. My heart is breaking for you. Because the common thread here is we all love our fur babies and everyone knows why and the depth of love and the determination with which we pursue treatments for their best health. We never have to explain ourselves, everyone knows our hearts because we all have the same loving heart. And just as everyone has already said, you did your best with the information you were given and trusted the Doctors to take care of your precious lil one. You did nothing wrong. Do not add guilt to your your grief. This is now only about grief not guilt. Know that, repeat that!!! You could not know all the possible things that could happen. You fought and he knew that you were fighting for him. He is now pain free and is making new friends with no limits on his abilities. I believe that every fur baby that crosses retains the love they were showered with from their loving parents. So know that you gave him something to always keep him connected to you in his new life. God bless you and comfort you
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[frijole]

I'm not going to lie - my heart hurts right now. I want to help you and I know I cannot. I look at that adorable face in your photo and long to learn more about Fella. I want to see more pictures and learn about his personality. Not now - when you are ready.

My Annie was a feisty spunky thing and I have sent a message to heaven to have her go find Fella stat. I want her to take him under her wings and show him the ropes including how to keep an eye on his loving mom below. Fella is out of danger and free of pain - it is those of us left that bear the pain.

Know that collectively we share the pain and you can cry, scream, vent whatever you feel like doing. We are always here for you ok? As someone else said - we know how hard and well intended your decision was and we would have done the same for ours. So we share your loss as if it were our own.

Please keep us posted on how you are doing and let us help in any way that we can - even if it's just to lend an ear, a shoulder... With love, Kim

[Fellasmom]

Thank you for all of your love and support.To be honest,I have a hard time reading them through right now as I'm a little numb.Hope you don't mind me sharing my thoughts right now as I really need some words of wisdom because as I try to process this,I keep getting stuck.Of course,NOW I wish I didn't do the surgery.He barely had symptoms and although the scans proved otherwise,very hard for me to believe that he was not well.I had barely worked thru the shock that he was sick and now he is gone.Here is the hard part that I really need words of wisdom to help me start to heal-He didn't want to go yesterday.It was the only day of his life when I said "lets go pee pee" that he just sat there and looked at me.I do believe he knew he was sick.I took him from his nice home and everything nice he knew and brought him to hospital.He woke up confused,with an incision and some pain.He struggled to lift his head when I visited him last night but being postop,he was very woozy and could hear my voice but couldn't focus on me as much as he tried to.I'm haunted with the thought that he felt I had betrayed him.He KNEW how much I loved him but all I can think of is that he woke up with pain,an incision,in a strange place and thought"how could you take me from my nice home and bring me here?"I know why I decided on surgery,but it kills me to think that he may have felt confused and betrayed by me in the end,like "why would you of all people bring me here"?THAT is killing me inside!!That and the fact that he died in a strange place with strangers and I wasn't there.I'm paralyzed with the thought that he felt betrayed by the one person who was supposed to love him the most!I can't get beyond that.I still can't believe his has gone.I know it takes time but honestly,between the thought of betrayal by me and the tragic way he died has me sick.How could he ever understand why I put him thru this?

[frijole]

Dogs are one of the few animals that truly DO unconditional love. No doubt in my mind dear Fella never doubted you, your actions or anything for one minute. Please know that. His entire life you did nothing but shower him with love. He totally knows you loved him with all that you have.

I can't explain what happened much less why. I opened a bottle of wine to chill the hurt a bit. Like I said - we truly all hurt with you. We understand your questions. But know that your little guy knew you were there and without a doubt that you were trying to save his life. What a wonderful mom. You risked your happiness to save him. Damn it didn't work and it just isn't fair. But don't doubt Fella's unconditional love and trust of you - not for a second.

xo, Kim

[doxiesrock912]

Oh NO:(
I'm so very sorry and am crying as I type this!
I know all too well how much you're hurting now as I have been there too.

Sharlene is right, you gave Fella the best chance that he had, please know that! Blood clots must be dealt with quickly because the consequences of one coming loose are not reversible and yes, had I been in the same situation I would also have chosen surgery. Waiting on pins and needles for a clot to break loose is not advisable - ever.

Also realize that they can't always see everything in an ultrasound because their bodies are so small. You mention that they found one on the kidney and I'm wondering if something unforeseen was already happening since Fella was doing so well but not wanting to go out and pee? The more details that you provide, the more I believe that you had to try the surgery!

I'm sure that he was confused and much of that can be attributed to the after affects of the anesthesia.

Dogs have unconditional love and know beyond a doubt that we love them right back. We're our own worse enemies dear, but you absolutely did what was best for him.

You did and I'm sure that he knew that when he looked up at you.

[Trish]

OMG such a shock for you, come here and let me give you a big cyber hug. I hope you have someone there with you at this sad time. This happening to my boy during/after surgery was a big thing for me when I was weighing up whether to proceed with the surgery. Knowing the risks involved frightened the bejeezus out of me. I did not want him to die full stop! But I did not want to do nothing either!

If I was in your shoes right now I am pretty sure I would be beating myself up too... BUT at the back of my mind I would know I had done the right thing with the best of intentions. I would know if I had done nothing he would have died anyway in the not too distant future. I would know he had not suffered, he was sedated on the ventilator and feeling no pain. I would know that one of his last memories was of his Mom visiting and being there with him. I would know that he was grateful for being given the chance of getting through this. I don't think this last one makes any sense but I KNOW that even if he died and I had to make my decision over I would do it again in the chance he could enjoy his life a little longer.

Dogs don't do betrayal, they live in the moment secure in the knowledge they are loved. So hang on to that xxxxxxxxxx

[addy]

Trish is so right, dogs cant reason betrayal in the way we humans can. They love unconditionally. I understand why you feel that way. It will take some time to come to terms with all of this. You are still in shock over the fact that Fella even needed surgery and now this terrible, terrible shock. It is too much for you to even begin to comprehend. My heart aches so for you.

I am so very sorry things turned out the way they did and I wish I could turn back the clock for you to a time before you knew he had a terrible danger within him, but I cant.

Please know we are all here for you and will listen and talk as often as you need to, whenever you need to. We wont leave you alone.

[Trixie]

So very sorry for your heartbreak. I'm sure Fella felt your love his whole life. Don't blame yourself...you did the very best you could for your boy. I'm just so sorry knowing that you are hurting so..
Barbara

[Bo's Mom]

Oh my goodness....I am so sorry to read about your dear little Fella. He surely is a beautiful one. I know nothing I can say can heal your pain but know that we all share it with you. Our shoulders are huge and hold a lot of tears and our arms spread wide to give hugs at times of pain. We all here are comforting souls who understand what you are feeling.
I know my Angel Bo will search out Fella and show him the best fields to run and be free of this horrific disease that took them all so suddenly and way too quickly. Their wings spread wide and will lift us one day when we are ready to join them.
Until then, we are down here suffering heartache with you and healing with you. Please accept our deepest condolences.

[jmac]

Oh no. I can't even imagine what you're going through and can't stop the tears. I am so, so, so sorry. I don't even know what else to say, except that I am thinking of you and praying for you.

Julie & Hannah

[Simba's Mom]

So sorry for your loss of your precious Fella, I'm crying with you...try not to feel guilty, you love Fella and he loves you too..you had no choice hon, and now Fella is running with all the other furbabies that are gone too soon but never forgotten..holding you close in thought and prayer!

[Skye]

sobbing....tears dripping off my chin, cheeks, sobbing. How i wish i could sit and hold you......we would just cry and cry all together. I too, lit a candle for Fella.
Fella is free of this world....saying that....he is in a place where he can know even more...you expressed how you worry about perhaps how he felt, but sweetheart he is with our Father who quite possibly has assigned Fella to gently carry your heart to the next furbaby to honor your love. And with that...Fella clearly knows and understands the depth of your love and how you were giving all you could to provide him the very best quality of life possible. He knows.....free your heart of this guilt, because he knows.
The pain that surges through you is like no other, i hurt for you, for this loss.
stay with all the angels here.......they are surrounding you carrying you through all this.....we are all here for you......write to us, when you can.
warm loving tender hugs............God Speed the pain away

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you and sweet Fella.

Shed a few tears for you both too. And some for all of us. It doesn't seem fair our pups have to deal with these things

Sorry again, you lost your little guy in this way.

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[Fellasmom]

First morning in 10 1/2 years I woke up without looking to my right and seeing my Fella snuggled up next to me.OMG,the pain and loss is unimaginable.Your kindness and support means so much to me.You feel like the pain will never go away.I can't seem to come to terms to what has happened to my Fella.I just don't understand what happened!I find myself running thru the events in my mind and blaming it on the hospital.Did they make a mistake?I keep going back to why they didn't premedicate him for a week or 2 like all the other surgeries I read about.Maybe I'm just looking to blame somebody.

It hurts so much that Fella sailed thru the surgery like it was nothing,even THEY were amazed.And within 24hrs he is gone??What did they do?They said he seemed to go into a multi system failure as a result of the surgery.I hate even thinking it was them because it makes the pain intolerable.Did they put him into an Addisons crisis.I find myself tempted to look stuff up but it really would kill me to know they missed something.

It hurts me heart to think about him going into respiratory arrest,then having a blood clot in the kidney and finally going to into cardiac arrest all within 24hrs of a very uneventful surgery.

The horror and trauma in the way that he died is unbearable.I know all the reasons why I chose the surgery but because he died as a result,it's so difficult to remember why you chose it.All you think about is what if you just decided not to go that day.That he would be to my right this morning still snoozing.That I would be able to hold and kiss him again.That after 10 1/2 yrs of love and happiness,his last day wouldn't have been spent with tubes,drains,IV's and without me.

They said they were just as shocked as I was that his heart stopped.They had just found the blood clot obstructing to the kidney and said his breathing was better.She was cautiously optimistic and just as she was calling dialysis unit,his heart stopped.She said"Fella told us he didn't want this".Sobbing,I just don't understand!

In order to even move forward,I have to get past the WHY???? and I just can't.I had long talks with Fella this past week during our drives back and forth.I must have said it 100 times to him"Mommy doesn't want to see you sick baby.It would kill mommy to see you sick and that's why we have to do the surgery so you can be with Mommy and Gracie and Buster for a long long time".

My gf said maybe Fella knew something we didn't.He really didn't want to go that morning.He stared at me so much that week,I mentioned to my gf that I swear he was saying goodbye.I would feel his big brown eyes in the car just STARING at me.She said maybe as dialysis was being arranged,he knew he was very sick and his heart just stopped cuz 'he didn't want mommy to see him sick" anymore.This is killing me.

[mytil]

I am so incredibly sorry - my heart is with you!!! All of us are here for you to lean on.

((((((hugs))))))
Terry

[Fellasmom]

I just googled adrenal failure caused by lack of cortisone.Am I just torturing myself?Have you ever heard of anyone not being premedicated?This is Tufts,surely they would know better??They said they have done hundreds of adrenalectomy's.

[Trish]

Hi there, I am here if you want to talk. Been thinking about you all day and hoping you got a wee bit of sleep.

I am not sure whether an Addison crisis would cause a blood clot that fast after surgery. I do wonder whether that initial episode of low oxygenation was the beginning of the pulmonary embolus, as that sounds like it happened quite fast. I do not know how a clot got to kidney area as that is just below level of surgery in the vena cava and I would have thought the the blood flow would have been going upwards not down to the kidneys. I remember Flynn's surgeon explaining how they put a clamp temporarily above and below the area affected in vena cava while they operate so if anything broke off they would catch it before it travelled and did any damage. Of course that would not help if somthing clotted after the surgery was completed. I am no expert on any of this, just trying to help you. I hope you get a chance to have a good talk to the surgeon so they explain all this to you. Maybe once you get over the initial shock.

[labblab]

I thought of you first thing this morning upon awaking, and I wished we were all physically near you so we could give you a real hug. I will never, ever forget my pain the first morning I awoke without my own precious boy beside me. I did not know how I would survive the day. I did not know I had that many tears to cry.

I surely understand your questions. I hope you will start a list and write down every question that comes to your mind. I also hope you can schedule a face-to-face meeting with the surgeon so that you will have the chance to get as many answers as you can. And maybe once you write each question down, you can then lock them away for the time being. If you are like me, unanswered questions seem to haunt me. And you don't need that right now, on top of your pain. So maybe once you write the questions down you can set them aside, just for the moment.

Most importantly, just keep on writing to us here! You can write off-and-on all day long. Anything that comes to your mind, and anything you would care to share about your life with Fella. The more we know about your little boy, the more we honor his sweet spirit.

Sending lots more hugs your way,
Marianne

[Fellasmom]

Thanks for all thoughts.Although you encourage me to write,I do feel bad that it is "doom and gloom" and would never want MY despair to frighten anyone who is thinking of the surgery,etc while reading my posts.

Trish,thanks for sharing parts of your surgery experience with me.The kicker is that he never had to even touch the vena cava.He was able to pull everything thru a small vein.It went flawless.So flawless that the deadly postop complications were just shocking.I do plan on meeting with the surgeon/ICU resident to just ask why think this happened.

I have to somehow make peace with how he passed.That I wasn't there.I sobbed in the doc's lap and told her"make sure you tell him mommy loves you and kelsey is waiting for you".My friend thinks Fella knew he was sick,maybe sicker than anyone knew.She thinks he knew he wasn't going to make it,surgery or not.She reminded me how animals have such a higher level of senses than humans do.How they can't tell time but just KNOW when we are coming home.How the can be inside a house but yet SMELL a dog a block away.She thinks his heart stopped for me,so that I wouldn't have to see him sick anymore.She thinks he just KNEW that with dialysis,intubation,a clot-I WAS going to see him suffer.And those were all the reasons I decided to have the surgery in the first place,just kept saying"I don't want to see you get sick little one".That thought brings me comfort and heartbreak at the same time.

Just can't seem to understand if it was "his time" why did he sail thru the surgery so well only to die 24hrs later?I wish I could some peace in all of this and start to move forward.We always want to blame ourselves.I asked about anticoagulation before hand but surgeon was adamant that it would affect existing blood clot and it was right where he wanted it to perform the surgery.He was on anticoag while hospitalized.I guess I could torture myself forever thinking they didn't do something for my baby that they should have.My poor Gracie and Buster are just looking at me and its so horrible because I have no interest in being there for them right now.I just go thru the motions and I feel so bad because I know they are grieving too.

I can't get his little face after the surgery out of my mind.I know in time,the haunted memories of the surgery will be replaced with all the things I loved about him.I just can't get there.

[Mel-Tia]

I had the same thoughts about posting on my thread as I lost my little girl two months ago. Different circumstances completely. The girls encouraged me to say what I needed to and not to feel bad. Everyone here gets it

I write to her every day on her loving memory thread, I don't know if that would help you but I wanted to mention how I have tried to cope. I think my Tia knew she was sick and I also think her brother knew it too, like you say there senses are so much greater than ours

You have had a terribly shocking few weeks. Please try not to totuture yourself by what ifs. Like Marianne said, if you have questions write them down, then when you feel a bit stronger you can get them answered by his team. Google will probably upset you more right now especially feeling like you do.

You made the choices you did out of the love you had and you didn't go into any of it lightly, I followed right along with you and I would have done what you did because that was his only hope.

From what I know, Blood thinning agents are usually given after surgery as they do not want to introduce the risk of bleeding out in surgery.

Sending you a big hug

Mel
Xxxxxx

[addy]

I hope some of your questions are answered by the surgeon so you are able to let some of it go. When I discussed a surgery for my pup a ferw months ago for a vulvar growth, our surgeon told me that if my Zoe had the start of a kidney disease or another condition that we did not know of yet even through her blood work, she could not guarantee the stress of anesthesia and/or surgery would not push her over the edge and that was one of the risks for her surgery. In Zoe's case, the surgeon explained all of that to me but then told me she felt Zoe's surgery was low risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if that could have been the outcome for my Zoe with a low risk surgery, maybe we have to consider these things even more so with more complicated surgeries. We just dont know what can happen so I truly hope the surgeon can bring you some closure by answering some of your questions.

I think of my Zoe and her recent surgery and I can understand and feel your pain as my own.

Write your list of questions down and in my opinion, I think looking things up on line right now can only confuse you and make you feel worse. Try to talk to the surgeon.

and come talk to us too:):):)

Sending love and hugs

[molly muffin]

I think the others are spot on in suggesting to make a list of your questions for the surgeon to answer. Then set that aside until you can talk to him and stay away from Google. It will drive you crazy, when you need to talk to the surgeon first.
Thinking of you this morning and sending you great big cyber hugs.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi sweetie,

You have been on my mind all night; we may have been sitting in bed and crying together several times tho miles apart. Your sweet Fella touched so many of us very deeply and we feel your loss and grief in our bones.

Honey, you are right where you are supposed to be. All the things you are feeling are normal, expected. It is how we cope with such a terrible tragedy. Our minds and Souls simply cannot accept loss easily so we fight it with anger, denial, guilt, and yes blame - someone, something, caused this to happen. We need a target, some place, someone, to lay the blame one. Because there HAS to be an answer. There just has to be. All these harsh feelings allow us to gradually accept our loss and finally fall gently into a cleansing, healing grief.

I had the same thoughts as your girl friend - that Fella knew something no one else did. I'm not sure he was looking at you so hard because he didn't want the surgery or because he knew what was to come if he had it. I think it he was looking at you so hard because he was trying to tell you he understood, he was telling you how very much he loved you, how grateful he was to be your baby. He was telling you he would never leave you, that he would always be with you, that nothing could ever separate your Spirits. He was telling you that even tho his form would change, he would still be by your side, that the love you share would never fade, he was telling you that you and he have an unbreakable tie. I believe he was thanking you for giving him the only chance he had, for putting yourself at risk on his behalf for the very thing you now face. He was thanking you for sparing him months of agony, fear, and suffering. He was thanking you for always putting his best interest ahead of yours, especially then. Cherish those looks. Tuck them safely away so they are always a part of you. I think those looks were an amazing Gift.

Please keep talking to us. Anything you want or need to say we can take. We know your pain and want to help you walk though this Valley and up the other side, whole and strong once again.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Boriss McCall]

You are on my mind first thing this morning. I feel so sick & sad for you. Do not worry about expressing your feelings & pain on this board. We are your family now & we are here for you.
I just wish I could take all this pain away from you.
hugs to you this morning I know your heart is sad & heavy.

[Harley PoMMom]

You are in my thoughts and prayers today. Sending you huge and loving hugs.

And as the others have said, Please do keep talking to us and although we know there are no words to ease your pain, we do understand and we are here for you.

Love and more hugs, Lori

[SoggyDoggy]

I am so dreadfully sorry that you have to face this pain. Sometimes it's worse when it is so unexpected like that too. Please know that you are surrounded by love and that everyone here understand's and welcomes all the loving memories you want to share.

Take care honey.

[Trish]

Wanted to check in and see how you are today, please do not feel bad about posting. This is the one place where you can come and say exactly what is on your mind and know we will all understand. You let it all out and we will all be shouting and crying at the unfairness of all that happened with Fella.

I hope you get some answers from the surgeon too so you can start to process all that has happened. Lists are good, I like them alot so make sure you write it all down so you don't forget anything when you get the chance to talk to them. xxxx

[frijole]

I'm checking in too. Just saying you've been on my mind and continued support going your way. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Your kindness and caring loving words mean more to me than you could ever realize.I'm sort of socially isolated at the moment and I come to this page and your kindness and love for Fella makes me smile through the tears.

I told Fella all about you.I said"even someone as far as New Zealand loves you and is saying paws up Fella!":).I'm pouring out my feelings here because I need to say them out loud and I know you understand.Today was the first day that I reached in the treat jar and caught myself taking out 2 treats.I put one back and then felt so bad,I took it out again and put it in his food dish.Oh,how my heart aches to just see his little face and hold him in my arms.

Very difficult to get past the surgery and tragic end.I desperately want to get to the other side of that so that I can begin to heal and celebrate Fella's life and all the love and laughter that he gave me.
We love them their whole lives,care for them when they are sick and protect them.I can't help but feel I let him down.I can't in any way come to terms with how he died.

[Trish]

Good! I am glad we are able to get an occasional smile out of you!! Of course you cannot get past that last bit, you are still in shock Missy and you just need to take it one step at a time. Are you eating? I am going into Mother Hen mode now, so tell me to butt out :D:D but just want to make sure you are taking care of yourself!

Aww about the treat, I bet your other babies managed to take advantage of that one!

My friend on here Ro started the "Paw's Up" when she was wishing Flynny luck, her dog Chey also has an adrenal tumour but surgery was not an option for them. I love that saying.... I bet Fella still has his Paw's up and waving to you and saying I'm OK Mom!! So wave back at him with a smile :)

You come in here as often as you need, seems I am stuck on here at the moment too, having a bit of a catch up xxx

[Fellasmom]

Thanks Trish!
No,I can't say that I have taken care of myself since I learned Fella was sick last week.I wake up at 4am wishing it was a bad dream.I am a mess.I haven't eaten,cleaned my house and the laundry is in a big heap.I can't sleep in my bed upstairs because him not being there just kills me.I've decided to sleep on the couch until I can face my bed without him being there.(no wonder I don't have a boyfriend!:))

I loved reading you and Flynnie's story-I was up all night reading all your pages one night,cheering the two of you on! I was following chey's story as well and did see the "paws up" and loved it too!

Thanks for being there and checking in.Amazing that I just met all of you and yet you have become my lifeline.The nights are the worst-the loneliness is killing me.I can't wait to sleep so I don't have to think.I hope one day I can forgive myself for hurting my baby.No matter what anyone says and no matter how much I tried to do the right thing,thats the feeling I'm left with.Its really unbearable.How I wish I could go back in time and change things.At this point,him dying at home would have brought me more peace.

Thanks for caring!Please don't stop.You are helping me by just being here.

[frijole]

Sooooooo good to hear from you. I am a total loner when things go wrong. No one hears from me. So you are a better person than I am. :D

It is understandable that you are struggling with the ending to your saga - I think we are all struggling with it to be honest. I think someday you'll get your answers and the closure you need. Meanwhile every minute a little bit of healing occurs and that is progress. Take it slow and talk to us. We are great listeners.

I agree - I bet someone in your house was happy to see that treat and thought they were real sneaky when they found it. It takes time - heck my Annie passed in Feb of 2012 and I cannot get myself to remove her nose markings from my patio door. I bet it drives my mom insane but it's my door. ;) One day I'll be ready.

Indeed your boy had people around the world cheering for him. Now we honor him along with our own who have passed. We won't forget.

Keep reading and know we are here. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Trish-oops,meant Flynny not Flynnie!Gotta get the names right!:)

[addy]

I hope you sleep tonight and I hope you try to eat something. We are all here for you.

Good thing about Trish in New Zealand is its already Sunday!! So if you cant sleep she'll be popping in:):)

[Fellasmom]

Kim-thanks so much for your love and support.Its difficult to go thru this alone.I have wonderful friends but they all live out of state.Family doesn't really get it,cuz they're "just"dogs.I really love that you are here-it means so much.
I really feel bad because I think my Golden Gracie is very sad.She loved Fella as did the cat Buster.I'm afraid to get answers about the surgery.I'm afraid it will make me feel even more responsible.I'm not sure when I'll be ready to hear details about the surgery.I think if I didn't have my other babies,I could easily sink in a black hole and never come out.I'm really just in a state of shock.I wake up sobbing and I go to bed the same.I just can't believe this has happened.

[Trish]

Flynn, Flynny, Flynnie, you little shite come back here.... he answers (or not) to them all! We not worried about spelling!

Kim is so right, we are all here alongside you as she said we are all in a state of shock right with you... so we not going anywhere, we are but a typed note away!

Right, well stuff the laundry and cleaning for now... but you get yourself into that kitchen and eat something, even just a bit of toast and something to drink! That's an order!! Now I am being Mother Bossy Hen!! Please report back what you have eaten!! Don't make me come over there haha.... just kidding, but no food or not drinking enough is not good... you can feel sad and cry do all that but don't make yourself sick. What's your name? I cannot keep calling you Missy haha....

[Fellasmom]

Haha...Flynny it is!My name is Patty (I always forgot our names arent logged on here somewhere).And you can be a mother hen anytime.I looked in the mirror today and really looked awful!!Honestly,with the exception of a quick Mcdonalds burger,I havent had a real meal in prob a week.Plenty of coffee,but not too much else.

This has really hit me hard.I never expected this to happen.I read so many incredible stories like your Flynny.Has anyone on here had a dog that died after this surgery?The trauma of it all has really taken a toll on me.I spent night and day on this board,looking online about the surgery,calling and emailing surgeons,finding an IMS,questioning doctors.I agonized and sobbed for hours deciding whether on not to go ahead with this surgery!I truly am in a state of shock-I just can't believe this has happened to my baby.I just keep sobbing"I'm so sorry Fella".Its just awful!

[frijole]

Trish cracks me up. She's right though - you gotta eat. Even if it's ice cream or cookies. :D Oh and you described my house - I have no excuse. :o Kim

[Trish]

Soooo.... what have you eaten just now????? I will not stop nagging, just ask my nieces and nephew, I can go on for hours!

[Fellasmom]

I'm not good with loss at all.It's like my world stops and it paralyzes me.I have no interest in anything.I smell his little winter coat and just wish he was here again.I am truly in a state of shock.I don't know that I can thru this and ever make peace with this surgery.There is no explanation that will make me understand.

And Kim,I understand about the nose prints.When my Kelsey passed,I had the dirtiest car ever!I refused to wash away her nose prints on my windows for a very long time.And now my car is covered with white fur from Fella and I just want to keep it there forever!

[frijole]

Patty you did everything right I swear you did. I don't recall ever having the blood clot component previously. Yes we have lost dogs - too many over the years. It's hard either way - some without warning and others after months of struggling. The shock in your case was simply that the surgery appeared to go well. Like your friend said you just have to believe that there was more than we knew and Fella didn't want to put your though it. As I said when I lost my girls "I sure hope there truly is a bridge where they wait for us. I told my Annie about it and that there would be lots of food, fun and if I steered her wrong I'm in deep doo-doo when I meet up with her." :p

Hang in there and go to the kitchen and find something with calories in it!

[frijole]

Soooo.... what have you eaten just now????? I will not stop nagging, just ask my nieces and nephew, I can go on for hours!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D I love you Trish :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Fellasmom]

I'll eat tomorrow,I promise mom:).

[Trish]

I bet if we tested your urine (gross I know) you would have ketones and they make you feel bad! I know you are feeling bad anyway, but we do not need to make it worse, honestly just having something warm in your tummy would help - something other than coffee!

You are in the midst of such a shock, I am pretty sure nothing we can say to you right now is going to make you stop hating on yourself but I know deep down you know you did the right thing Patty... it just did not go right and we are so feeling it with you. But I am so worried about you right now, one burger in a week is not enough to sustain anyone!! So please, humour me and Kim and go eat a wee bite!

[Fellasmom]

Kim,
That was cute-I too promised lots of good stuff to eat,treats,etc.I saw a Facebook posting recently that I so hope is true.The picture was of an angel and with a dog and the dog's owner had apparently just passed away and got to heaven and the caption above the dog said"oh,I've been waiting so long to see you again".It made me cry.

Thinking of that surgery hurts my very soul.I do need to get answers but not sure I can handle them without feeling so responsible.That was the hardest part,it did go so well.Wonderful in fact.Absolute joy to absolute despair less than 24hrs later.My heart just can't handle it.

[molly muffin]

It's true, our Trish is our mother hen who will nag you until you eat. We'll back her up too!!!

I think that is exactly it (what Kim said). Fella and you arrived and everything seem to happen so quickly. That little face in your avatar, who would not fall in love with it. We were all so over joyed with you that Fella came through surgery so well that I really do believe our entire forum that has followed your story is in a state of shock and disbelief. I cannot even imagine how much more painful for you that this is.

I have thought about it so much, and based upon what the surgeon told you and the prognosis of not having the surgery. I would have done the same exact things that you did. You took all the right steps.

Animals go through grief too, so I'm sure your other babies are feeling their own sadness and wondering where on earth Fella has got off to. We see that happen time and time again with the other babies who are left behind. I think that you and Fella had a special bond and that makes this whole experience so much harder. It is those with that special bond who usually end up here on this forum.
It makes us all bond together and support each other through the good time and the bad times with a strength that is beyond mere words sometimes.
Your other babies need you too, so you are going to have to eat something so you can be there for them too.
hugs,
Sharlene

[Fellasmom]

Trish-you made me laugh,again!:).Thanks for being there,the nights are the absolute worst!!I really couldn't eat a bite right now but I will try tomorrow,I promise.You're very sweet for caring so much!I'm so exhausted and drained right now.Sleep is the only break I get from this nightmare.I'm going to try to squeeze between Buster and Gracie and get some sleep but I promise I will make a good breakfast in the morning!:).Thanks for everything and love hearing from all of you!

[Fellasmom]

Sharlene,
Just saw your post as I was getting ready to signoff.I can't imagine being without all of you-really!Fella was loved by so many and is so missed.I truly am in a state of shock.I keep going over it and over it in my mind.Blame,regret,despair-I feel all of it!I honestly feel like I just impulsively handed over my baby to be killed.Sounds horrible but thats where my head is at.It was quick,but there was tumor there,it was operable,was already starting to invade vena cava and he had a blood clot.I remember feeling that this was happening so quickly but with all the facts above,I agreed with doctors that best thing was to do surgery now.Biggest reason was that he could die at any second if that blood clot were to dislodge.THAT was the only reason to act ASAP.I'm torturing myself wishing I had just NOTHING.Really don't think I'll ever move on from the shock and pain of this.

Gracie and Buster are the best of friends who really loved Fella and they do miss him greatly.I've been hugging and crying with them all day.Animals are so amazing.

Off to bed,talk to you tomorrow and thanks again for being here with me.

[Trish]

Hope you have some good sleep Patty, snuggle with your babies and feel their energy and comfort :)

[Skye]

Death is something i do not handle well at all. I shut down. I, same as you, sob, cry, dont sleep, dont eat, nothing matters.......the pain is so great i think it will surly kill me at any moment. every minute is feeling like hours, hours like years. The pain will not subside and my thoughts will not rest. I read your post and i think of you so much through out my day and i worry about you and hope you do feel there are those of here that so understand and or relate to what is ripping your soul.
Death itself is frightening to me.....i dont want for myself any of the ones i love to ever suffer.......passing peacefully to our Father without even knowing departure has happened until we have arrived.
IF you would not have had this surgery performed.....what Fella could have faced as his departure would have been horrible. Likely no warning things were taking turn for worse and there would have been no time to react, he would have been horrified as you and not understanding what was happening, or why. You still saved him is what I am trying to express.
I struggled so horribly horribly terrible if i should say yes to a adrenalectomy....i was a mess. I could not grasp the reasoning as to how anyone could ever make this decision. Knowing about what was happening inside her tiny body and not trying to stop it, what momma would ever do that to her child? the decision was one of the most difficult ones i had ever had to make, to this day i will never ever forget how difficult that was. The risks involved not to take action.......were they worth it? at least one way there was a chance. Same with Fella......one way there was a chance. You and Fella were given that chance and had you turned from it and then time follows knowing what lays ahead in the journey could you have forgiven your self for not taking that chance? You took the opportunity to try and fix what was wrong....Fella departed away from home and I know that hurts so terribly, however he was likely sedated from the surgery, he was in no pain, if even really aware, he likely got to make the departure of this life to his new life without even knowing until he arrived. You gave all, all the time. Fella would never doubt you in that. He knows more than ever how much you love him, more than ever how you would do anything for him. One day...the pain will not drain you of all your strength...you will become stronger, and as you do, you will see, Fella is still looking after your heart....he is gently guiding your heart to the furbaby who will one day possibly be able to honor the gift you gave to him. His legacy is with you.......and when your strength is returned...you will see and feel this more than ever. My arms wrapping around you holding you in tight hug......May God bring rest to your mind, and peace to your heart, calm to your soul.

[Tina]

Patty,

I too want to extend my deepest sympathy to you. I was completely shocked , and was so upset last night that I couldn't even bring myself to post. I cried half the night last night. I have been thinking about you all day, and sat crying at my desk as I ended up having to work for a bit today. I so understand all your feelings and all the second guessing. Everything happened so fast, you are definitely in shock, and it will take some time before you will begin to get a grasp on all that happened.

I know that nothing I can say will take away the searing pain that you feel right now, but I hope it comforts you to know that we all understand your feelings, and are here for you. With everything that was going on with Fella and all the information you had available, I absolutely believe you made the right decision to proceed with the surgery. I kept thinking if I would have done the same thing under the circumstances, and my answer is yes. I don't think that I could have decided against the surgery and lived every day knowing that there was a ticking time bomb in my baby's body just waiting to go off. I am a huge worrier, and I know that I would probably have a breakdown worrying that at any second the clot could break loose.

I can't adequately express the heartbreak I feel for you. I can identify with you so much. I am single with no human children, and my family is essentially all out of state. My friends are wonderful, but don't completely understand how I am about my pups. The friends I have met on this forum I feel are my extended family, because everyone here totally gets it. They have held me up on more than one occasion when I had nowhere else to turn, and I otherwise would have collapsed from fear.

Unfortunately it is going to take some time before you can start to process all that has happened, right now everything is too raw. I am so so sorry that this happened. Like everyone else, I loved little Fella and am just heartbroken. I will be here to lend an ear and support you also.

As far as not being able to eat, I get the exact same way. Can you try milk with carnation instant breakfast? It has been a life (and stomach) saver for me on numerous occasions. It is nutritious, goes down pretty easy, and is mild on the stomach. And there is a variety of flavors. Just an idea if you can't bring yourself to eat anything.

Love and comforting hugs,

Tina

[Mel-Tia]

Hi Patty

Thinking of you this morning.

I can't imagine losing my pup the way you did, as numerous members have said i would also have gone ahead based on the things they were telling you. Your options were only operate or do nothing.

I think what you have experienced over the last few weeks has been very traumatic, but I do think doing nothing would have been worse. Not knowing when or what would happen because of the tumor and clot would have been tortuous.

If you had of done nothing, like Tina said you would have been freaking out at every little thing expecting something to happen but never knowing when.

We are all parents not owners as Leslie said. Parents made the decisions in the best interest of their pup not them and I genuinely believe you were giving Fella his best chance, it's so unfair this happened to you.

I am in the uk so there is a 5 hour difference to you so I will always be about odd times too if you want to talk

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[labblab]

OK, morning shift reporting for duty to check on you and Gracie and Buster! ;)

I'm gonna pick up where Trish left off and urge you to think about some breakfast :). Tina's suggestion about the Carnation powder is a great one. I'd totally forgotten about it but I used to live on it when I was in college.

Or how about some buttered toast with cinnamon-and-sugar on top? That was my grandma's cure whenever we were feeling down in the dumps. She always said it would carry a bit of warmth and sweetness to our souls. :o

Marianne

[Fellasmom]

I have a second of peace when I open my eyes,then reality sets in.First thing I did today was kiss Grace and Buster,make coffee and check this board.I saw all of your msgs and thank God you understand!!I get so angry and hurt at my family.My mother was the only one who even called to acknowledge this.When I express this to my mother she'll say"but Patty,they don't understand,they're not crazy about dogs,its not like they are children" and of course I say"well,they are to me!".That being said,I just love waking up to your kind words.Your love of Fella warms my very heart and soul.I would be so lonely without all of you.

I feel like I'm grieving two things and it is competely overwhelming to me.I have the surgery and all of the things leading up to it and then the day to day heartbreak of not having him here.I have to say,I loved loved my Kelsey.She was my first dog and it was just her and I for many years.Never thought anything would be worse than losing her,but this is.It is so tramautic to me it has swallowed me whole and I can't even sort the details.

I try to go back to the very beginning.I wont post this all today because it it way too long.Because our babies can't talk,we really tune in to their looks,gestures,behaviors and pick up even the slightest change that no one else can even see.I swear I "smelled" his tumor the day it appeared!I remember this vague "gut" feeling coming from "somewhere" that was making me sad about Fella.Don't even know where it was coming from,he had NO symptoms-it was a subconscious gut feeling that when it came to the surface,I asked myself"why are you thinking this?".I NEVER worried about him.Was never sick.Just celebrated his birthday and told him he was gonna be another Zak.(friends dog who lived to be 18).I know it sounds crazy,but just like their sense of smell,etc is higher than that of a human,I think ours become heightened as well.I started to worry about him,started to really LOOK at him,and a short time later is when I noticed very slight changes.Impossible to explain this feeling but they say I caught this so early,I say I knew it was there the second it came.It may have been a look,a gesture,idk,but I caught it.

As far as the blood clot is concerned,yes,it worried everyone.My homeopath vet said"don't let him run".I started to panic and would pick him up to go up the stairs cuz i was afraid.He chased the birds and I panicked.I took a leave from work so that he would never be alone.THAT is what did not afford me the luxury of time and gave me just a few days to agonize 24/7 what to do.Ironically devastating,is that I really think a blood clot post op is what killed him!But I can't go there cuz it's too painful.I deeply regret the surgery at this time.My biggest fear at home is actually less painful than dying postop.

[Fellasmom]

The image in my mind of that surgery prevents me from going to the good parts.This little guy that I loved with all my heart and sould and protected his whole life...here is my last image.Seeing him struggle with pain as they titrated the pain med up,deep abd breathing,dried blood on his belly,eyes glazed,iv's running,somewhat limp from the meds,foley catheter....and him,hearing my voice and the struggle it took for him to lift his little head to find me and say "why did you do this to me?".I'm left with feeling like they killed him,they killed my little baby.I hope I didn't offend anyone with this descripton but THATS what I wake up to and go to bed with.Dying from a blood clot at home in hindsight,would have been better.

[Fellasmom]

Marianne
Thanks for the breakfast suggestions.I promised Trish I would eat this morning and then morning comes and all you feel like doing is vomiting.I'll eat something,maybe engllish muffin.Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin',

Last nite, I was thinking about when Squirt had her tumor out. There were about four days between the time they told me it had to come out, and that it could rupture at anytime taking her life, and the actual surgery. Those four days were agony. I had to pick her up a special way to make it less likely the tumor would rupture when I did - and I was terrified every time I had to carry her up or down the stairs. When she ran or bounced or jumped - I freaked. She had no idea anything was wrong or what the possibilities were...but I did. I had to check her gums frequently to check the possibility of internal bleeding. Poop patrol was critical because of the bleeding possibility. I stared at her and hovered over her in absolute terror those four days. Anything, and during that time that was most things, she did that seemed the least bit out of the ordinary sent me into a panic.

There were moments when she seemed so normal, the thought would cross my mind that I was doing the wrong thing putting her at such risk with the surgery....then what they had told me about a rupture would come rushing back and I knew there was no other choice. No, I did not want her to die during the surgery or from complications following...but if that tumor ruptured, she would suffer horribly before she actually died and there would be little they could do to save her then. The thought of her passing while I wasn't holding her was almost unbearable but there was some solace in knowing that if the worst happened, she was where she needed to be, where she would be given the best chance to fight...and that she wouldn't suffer like she would if I did nothing for her and the tumor ruptured, which it was going to do.

I thought of you having to live with that panic and terror every day if Fella didn't have the surgery. How your heart would be breaking hourly knowing what was going to happen and that it could happen any minute. A simple trip to the grocery store would bring immediate stress and anxiety fearing what you might find when you returned. Every hour you had to be at work would be agony. When the clot did break loose, your sweet boy may have suffered a great deal and no one could offer any help at that point. That would have been terrible for both you and Fella. And in your shoes, I would have beat myself into a pulp for choosing not to have the surgery, for not giving him the only chance he had at a full life, for not sparing him those final awful moments.

Sweetheart, one of these days, Fella is going to send you a message. That message will be that he is alright now, that he is grateful you made the choice you did, and that his love for you will never change. He knows there was no good choice offered, only a choice between the lesser evil - an extremely risky surgery or letting him suffer a terrible death.

When you are ready, find out what you can about the surgery, about what went wrong and why if known. That may help bring you some peace. But not until you are capable of hearing the details and handling the images that will come with those details. I would imagine this will be a difficult discussion so give yourself time.

My thoughts and prayers remain with you.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Fellasmom]

Leslie,
All your fears,anxiety and worries with Squirt were just like my own with Fella.This all came on so suddenly,was quickly diagnosed and didn't afford me much time.I know if I had done nothing,as Fella became sick,I would feel awful.If the blood clot didn't kill him,when they described what LIKELY would happen-maybe 2months of good quality of life(tho I would die to have that now),followed by swelling of hind legs as tumor began obstructing vena cava,lethargy,poor appetite.His guess was that this was an aggressive tumor.
Because he had a good quality of life,no co morbidities,lab work perfect,otherwise healthy-those are all the reasons why I chose surgery,plus the docs were very confident.The tumor was tiny.

How does my little baby resp arrest,cardiac arrest and die 24 hrs after a surgery he sailed thru like a champ?THAT's what has me in a state of just shock-I can't even believe he is gone.Had they given me a 50-60%chance,I would be devastated but less shocked.

Do you think a surgeon or ICU resident that was his primary caregiver would take the time a week or so after this to talk with me?

[doxiesrock912]

I don't foresee them having an issue with you asking questions.

I would approach the subject by explaining that you're having difficulty understanding exactly what happened since Fella seemed to be doing so well.

The tumor on his kidney really concerns me and I and wonder what unknown affects that might have played?

Who knows how the kidney tumor might have complicated Fella's situation even if you hadn't opted to do the surgery?

Bottom line: you did what was necessary for Fella.

I still believe this and even more so with the additional tumor being found.
Please know that he enjoyed a great quality of life right until the end and we can't ask for anything more.

I hope that you get some answers or at least clarification so that you can put your mind at ease.

[Fellasmom]

Hi valerie,
It wasn't a tumor on his kidney.His scan was free of any tumors preoperatively.It was a blood clot on his right kidney that was the cause of his decreased urine production.He was on blood thinner Fragmin because I asked them.I recieved the call earlier about the resp arrest but then they said he was actually breathing better.As I rushing up there,just as I was going up the hill to go into their parking lot,I recieved the call that when they discovered the clot,they were all set to call dialysis team and his heart stopped.OMG my poor baby!!!They were resciciating him and he was barely alive when she called to beg me to tell them it was ok to stop.OMG my poor little Fella!He took his last breath as I was in the hallway a few doors away.This tragic ending to his sweet life was nothing that I ever could have imagined.Thanks for listening.

[Mel-Tia]

Just checking in to see how you are doing?

Hope you have managed a few bites today

It was so unfair that the issue you were trying to solve was what took your little one. None of it makes sense.

I hope the surgeons can help you find some peace in the future with what has happened as I do think you need to hear from them so they can explain what happened.

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxx

[Trish]

Good morning Patty, hope you got some rest and a muffin Yay! I am about to leave for work but will check in tonight for sure. If I was you I would call and schedule meeting with the actual surgeon for when you are feeling a bit stronger. You need answers and I would not be happy with an underling. I am sure we will all be happy to help you put a list of questions together xxxx

[Fellasmom]

Just got your messages Mel and Trish and yes,I may need help with those questions.Just not sure I am ready to hear them yet.I have not eaten a thing yet but I am going to make something for dinner.The day just seemed to go by.I at least bought Gracie a huge meaty bone which kept her busy for hours.We all miss Fella so much.

I honestly try to distract myself from thinking about that surgery too much.I truly think I'm in a state of shock that he is gone.I spent the better half of the morning crying and telling Fella to give me a sign that he understood I did this because I loved him-I NEVER expected I would lose him!I worried about things like pancreatitis and diarrhea-not death!

Anyhow,my gf called and is spending her vacation volunteering at a farm in Vermont,caring for border collies.She was calling to tell me that the owner of this farm/rescue also connects with animals.She wants to call me tomorrow.Now,I don't know what to believe when it comes to psychics,etc but when you are as desperate as I am,I'll listen to anyone with the hopes that it will somehow lessen my grief.

Trish-have a great day at work!I will think of you as I have my dinner as I know you will be proud:).And all of you are so wonderful,please don't leave as your company and thoughtful words have provided a huge source of comfort for me.
Patty

[Harley PoMMom]

Anyhow,my gf called and is spending her vacation volunteering at a farm in Vermont,caring for border collies.She was calling to tell me that the owner of this farm/rescue also connects with animals.She wants to call me tomorrow.Now,I don't know what to believe when it comes to psychics,etc but when you are as desperate as I am,I'll listen to anyone with the hopes that it will somehow lessen my grief.

Patty

I truly believe that there are people that have the unique gift of communicating with animals, so I say go for it, and if you feel comfortable in sharing with us what was said, that would be great and if not, that is completely understandable too.

Sending huge and loving hugs,
Lori

[frijole]

One of our members Glynda contacted someone who had this gift and she not only learned about her dog but also about her dad. I cant' remember the exact details but there were things no one outside her family would know. I seriously thought about contact them about my Annie as I still have unanswered questions too... but I'm afraid of what I'll hear. So pro's and con's I guess!

Your vivid recounting of what happened to you makes me cringe in pain every time I read it. I think that is why it has hit us all so hard. I was with you as i read it and literally felt horror. So yeah - with time.

Meanwhile young lady you need to eat some food. We'll become real PITA's if you don't. So you have 2 hrs to check back in with details of what you decided to eat ok? !!! Kim