Trixie - Schnauzer being treated with Vetoryl - Trixie has crossed The Bridge

[Trixie]

Hi..I am new here and amazed at all the information that is on this site. It has been most helpful as I am someone who feels a bit less nervous if I have some knowledge. My mini schnauzer Trixie is almost 9 and during a "senior" check up was found to have high liver levels. She was put on Denamarin for 30 days. We did do a recheck blood test after about 10 days and the levels began to get lower but in the meantime the classic Cushing's symptoms were becoming noticeable. After more bloodwork after she was off the Denamarin for about 8 days she was found with levels back up.
ALT: 246
ALK-P: 1295
GGTP: 39
She has been in great shape, gets a lot of exercise and seems pretty much fine except for the hunger issue. She is very hungry.
On Monday she will have both an ultrasound and the 8 hour test (can't recall the name but have been reading about it here). My Vet is good and has worked with many Cushing's dogs. I tried to get an appt. with Dr. Mark Peterson as he is a endochrine specialist and located where I live here in New York City. I didn't realized I would need to be referred to him after my own vet does all the diagnostics ...then he would do a exam fo my dog, work-up and treatment plan, I was so hoping to go right to him but guess it doesn't work that way. Meanwhile I do have faith in my vet practice and it is just a walk across the street for Trixie and me. Anyway I am just shaken up by having all this happen so quickly but will be happy to have some of the test work over by Monday afternoon. I am distressed that my pup has to spend 8 hours at the vet and I know this will stress her...I'm already stressed by it. The fact that she can't eat anything Monday morning is also going to be a tough one. She has been so hungry. She stands and stares at me which is the sign for "give me something-anything!". The whole medication aspect is also giving me anxiety. My dog has such a sensitive tummy and it doesn't take much for a bout of the runs and the vomits, so the meds make me nervous. My vet assures me it will all be okay and he said he doesn't see too many problems with Lysodren--did I get the name right. Anyway I am so happy to have this site and all of your advice and experience to help me through. Can I expect that once on the drugs she will be kind of okay? Even with her liver strained and the food/water/peeing issues she is still happy and lively and walked for an hour in Central Park this morning. Can I expect she will most likely get through this without too much distress? Oh-and same question goes for me too??

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

I am so glad you found us. Cushings is easier with a good support team.:):):)

You can find information on Lysodren here:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

Lysodren has been used to treat Cushings for many years. It is important that proper protocol is followed and that your vet has experience with the drugs and you watch your pup like a hawk as the loading phase is critical and pups can get into trouble. Signs of loading can me slight, even so much as a 5 second pause in eating. It is important to have prednisone on hand as well.

But we need to get the proper diagnosis first so Monday is an important day for you and Trixie.

I had a telephone consultation with Dr. Peterson after my Zoe was diagnosed. She has IBD (at the time we thought it colitis). He did not feel Lysodren was right for her so we went with Trilostane/Vetoryl. With Trilostane, you can start and stop the drug and although gastro upset is a side effect, gastro upset with Lysodren is a big side effect.

That is not to discourage you from using it. Many of our members have used it successfully with good results.

Glad you found us. I am sure others will be by to say hello and give you feedback.

In the meantime, keep reading our Resource section:):)

[Trixie]

Thank you so much for your response Addy. Believe me, I am really going to question my vet about which medication would be best for Trixie and her very sensitive tummy. That worries me so much because I have had bouts with her digestive system in the past and she is miserable when that happens. Since my dog has been pretty healthy I have not gotten all that close with the 3 vets in the practice. They all have pretty good credentials, the one who will handle Trixie now is the head of the practice. Luckily this site has been extremely helpful in providing information and I am going to keep all your advice and suggestions in a book which I will take with me so I don't forget what i want to ask.
I wanted to work with Dr. Peterson in the worst way and maybe I still will if I don't feel comfortable with the protocol my vet comes up with. As I mentioned in my first post, it was more complicated than just making an appt. to see him.
I was hoping so badly that the symptoms I started to notice were nothing and then I could not ignore the fact that Trixie had almost every one on the list. Not wanting to jump on the couch was the one that really made me realize she was headed towards having Cushings. I so wish it hadn't gone this way. Just can't shake this jittery feeling I have about it all.

[frijole]

Hello. I agree that if your dog has tummy issues you might consider trilostane over lysodren. It has to do with the way the drugs work. Hard to load with lysodren as you are looking for tummy issues as a sign of loading.

Also - other than hunger what are your dog's cushings' signs? It is often misdiagnosed and it could be something as simple as hypothyroidism. Schnauzers are prone to it more so than cushing's. I would test the thyroid if you haven't already. The 8 hr test is the 'golden standard' for cushings however if anything else is going on it can have false positives. So even if it comes back positive I would have an ultrasound or the acth test done to confirm the diagnosis.

There is NO rush to treat cushings so that you know. If your dog is walking that much you have caught it early or there isn't cushings. Just don't want you to feel rushed. Kim

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Trixie from me as well!

Cushing's is a slow progressing disease so one does have the time to get a confirmed diagnosis for their furbaby. A Cushing savvy vet will not initiate any treatment without strong symptoms and a proper diagnosis. Since other non-adrenal illnesses, such as diabetes and thyroid problems, share some of the same symptoms of Cushing's it can be one the most difficult diseases to get a confirmed diagnosis, plus not one test is 100% accurate at diagnosing Cushing's.

Hopefully your vet will do the LDDS test before performing the ultrasound on Trixie because even severe stress can create false positive results on all tests for Cushing's.

Cushing’s is a treatable disease. Delivery of competent and humane medical care by a skilled GP and/or specialist experienced in the diagnosis and management of Cushing’s has a significant impact on patient survival and well-being. With proper medical management, close monitoring and owner observation, most Cushingoid pets can live to their full life expectancy, with complete or partial resolution of clinical signs, and good quality of life!

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too. So glad you found us. :)
The more you know the less nervous you will be. The less nervous you are, the better that Trixie will do too.
Having a vet who will work with you to figure out exactly what is going on and what the best treatment plan is, really is essential. One that will talk to you is quite helpful as a back and forth dialogue I think is really important to your peace of mind.

I think you are on the right track, getting the tests done, etc. Make sure you get copies of all tests and start keeping your own file. You'll want that for a number of reasons, not least because we'll ask all the time, what the last results or previous results of this or that test where. (nosy little mother hens here :) )
It also helps if you end up ever having to make an ER trip. We've done that a few times, Nothing to do with Cushings, just life. I go in with my folder ready. That notebook to keep track of any changes you might notice is helpful to have too.

Again, welcome. I don't want to totally overwhelm you all in one go. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

I thank you all for responding. It is such a relief to read your words of wisdom and to be able to "talk" about all this.
Trixie's symptoms so far- drinking more, major, major hunger, urinating more (result of the drinking more), stalls before jumping up on the couch (and looks for one of us to lift her), doing most of her sleeping on the cool floor, though she's in our bed at night. I may be noticing a slight thinning of the coat on her belly and she is a tiny bit bloated-maybe from the liver issue, but no real pot belly yet. Those are the symptoms we have so far, but yes, she is walking with her usual spunk and walked quite a bit today, though she zonked out now. Last night was the first night she woke up at 2am..I figured she needed to pee but it was water she wanted. She has been holding her urine all night from her last walk 10-11pm until about the 8am.
She is going to be so stressed going to the vet on Monday. I was the one who opted to do both the ultrasound and the 8 hour test on the same day so she (we) can get it all over with and get home. I think she'll be stressed no matter what, I am dreading it but want it over with.
When I have to see them take her away from me at that vet for the whole day...ugh...I am going to be counting the minutes until I can pick her up. I don't even like leaving her at the groomers.
Thanks again to everyone here. Barbara

[Trixie]

oh..I forgot to add panting to the list...once in awhile there has been unexplained panting.
Thanks again for welcoming me and easing my nerves.

[Boriss McCall]

Hi welcome to the group! I am glad you are still able to take descent walks with Trixie. The same thing happened to me my 8 year almost 9 at the time dog Boriss was doing the routine senior check when his levels came back not good.
He has been on Trilostane since last Sept 2012 & things have been going really smooth for the most part.
I will still hope for you & Trixie that this is something else & not cushings. ;) something minor.. fingers crossed.

It is definitely not the end of the world like I felt when Boriss was first diagnosed. Until I found all the wonderful people here I was a scared sad mess. :eek:
He has pretty much gone back to his normal self once he got balanced out on the medication. He has had to have a few tweeks in his meds & it has taken a while to get to his right dose.

I am glad you found this sight. Everyone here will help you along the way & give you really good advice. Just from watching & reading seems like a lot of these people know more than a large number of vets.

Good luck on Monday. Try not to stress too much & enjoy your weekend.
hugs,
Amy

[Trixie]

Thank you Amy. I'm sure I will have many questions, especially after the tests on Monday. I hope you all have a great weekend too...and of course all the doggies too. I really appreciate all the support.

[doxiesrock912]

Have the notebook and pen ready Barbara. You will learn a lot!
I don't know where Daisy and I would be without this group.

I'm not quite such a mess since joining and learning more everyday about what we're facing.

[Trixie]

So here it goes already--do you notice a wax and wane of symptoms? Today Trixie is not being so obvious in her list of symtoms. Again she took a long morning walk, had off leash time in the park, plenty of energy, came home and drank water but not a crazy amount considering all the outdoor time she had. Usual crazy hunger is still quite apparent though. She just hopped up on the couch and did not hesitate making the jump as she has been doing all week. Also quite a bit less bloated than a day or two ago.
The other thing to note is that she is now on day 4 of getting the Denamarin. Her liver levels are high and I believe this drug works great for her. She was on it in Feb, when high levels were first discovered and before I began to really notice possible Cushing's symptoms. Levels climbed right back up after completing the round of meds and then the symptoms were more pronounced.
I don't doubt the behavior and symptoms I have seen the last couple of weeks...but then today it's all much less. Then on Monday I am putting her through this day of testing?
If her liver levels were not so high I would not rush into the testing and possible medication if Cushing's is positive..but it can't be good to have levels that are 10 x the norm, right?
Can the Denamarin have an effect on the Cushing's symtoms? I don't know how that drug would effect anything but the liver.
Any feedback thoroughly appreciated! Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Was an urinalysis done on Trixie as well? If so could you post the findings such as her urine specific gravity (USG), the color, PH, and if any thing was found in her urine, like crystals, cast, etc. Thanks!

[Trixie]

No urine test was done at the original check up...probably should have been. The blood test does not show any high levels other than the liver and cholesterol. She eats a low fat diet since she was a puppy and has done great. She has weighed between 12-13 pounds pretty much her whole adult life. She did weigh in at 14 when she was weighed last month as she has been so hungry and I hate to deny her but she is still in great shape...not at all over-weight. She had a pancreatic panel done too and that also came back normal.
Just as I began to second guess myself about her symptoms today, Trixie went back to a busy of afternoon of drinking and a lot and peeing. This was all more controlled in the morning, perhaps because she outside so much, I don't know.
Just starting to feel unnerved about Monday's tests and the thought of her cooped up at the vets all day. Sundays I have to take care of my 92 year old mother...Trixie comes out to her house with me and my husband. I will have to bring puppy pads along, looks like we'll need them. She has already had a few accidents at my mothers which is when I began to notice all this. I'm lucky she knows how to use the pads.
When the late afternoon comes all the worrying gets worse for me.
Do you find out the results of this 8 hour test right after it's over or do things get sent off to labs? I forgot to ask the vet---but I know you all will know about this.
I guess like all of you I hate the thought of this active and happy dog becoming sick, but I'm going to try and stay positive that she will do okay and we'll get through this. Thanks for listening everybody! :)

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Trixie,:)
Welcome to the forum. I am new to the group, I only joined a little over a month ago. I just had the dreaded 8 hour test done for Buddy a few weeks ago. I didn't do both the eight hour test and ultrasound on the same day. To answer your question, Buddy's test results for that test had to be read at the lab. I didn't find out the results until late the next day. Having said that, my vet's instructions have had a few errors and I'm trying to get those cleared up. My name is Kathy. I am known as Budster's Mom on the panel. I have recently done all the things that you are about to do. You can find my thread under the new posts. It's entitled, "it's 3:55 AM and I haven't slept, please help". You might be able to get some information there. Please bear in mind that I'm a newcomer and everyone knows more than I do. I hope all goes well tomorrow. I know how worried you are! This Forum has saved my sanity. I found support when I had none.
They will be here for you too.

Kathy and Buddy:)
Budster's Mom

[molly muffin]

Hi, yes Kathy is correct, you find the results out after they go to the lab and how quickly you get the results depends on what lab is used by your vet.

Cortisol naturally has higher and lower points during the day. It could be that the time that you don't see Trixie drinking a lot, it is not As high as it is at other times. One of the things that the medicine would do is keep the cortisol at a even level during the day so you wouldn't see those types of spikes once Trixie is controlled.

It never hurts to have a urine panel done, just to check things out. You'll want to know if the urine is dilute at all and what the specific gravity is. If it is dilute, then you will always need a culture done to check for any UTI's as they won't show up correctly in dilute urine.

I know you are nervous about leaving Trixie on Monday. It can be a long day for both of you, but ask them to make sure they give her some special attention in between during the test. My vet does doggy day care now too and so I get them to play with molly any time she has to be at the vets for any length of time. This has actually made her not as nervous about going into the vets as she use to be. Sure she still isn't thrilled to go off into the back without me, but she does run up the steps to the door ready to go in and automatically goes over and gets on the scale to get weighed. (something that happens every vet visit). Maybe they can do something like that with Trixie too.

We all get through these things together. It's one of the things that make this forum so wonderful is that you do have support. You actually have probably more support than you know as not everyone can always answer ever post, but I know that for instance, our administrators and moderators, do try to read every post whether they can answer or not, to keep an eye on everything. We try at least. :)

Hang in there. You're doing great. A big bonus that Trixie will use pee pads.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Many thanks--Valerie, Lori, Kathy, and Sharlene--and all from yesterday too,
It just feels so much better having everyone's support.:p
My husband and I keep picking up Trixie and giving her lots of hugs and kisses...though nothing unusual there. :D Our daughters are both away at school so Trixie is getting all the attention...my girls say it's always like that anyway. haha
I will ask about a urine test and the UTI possibility. I know the ultrasound and the test are a lot in one day...thought that would be less stress on both of us, not having to return for one or the other the same week. They are going to do the ultrasound in between. Funny thing is the vet is really right around the corner from me-we walk by all the time. They told me they will walk Trixie during the day and I told them that worries me because she will try very hard to get home! She knows the way.
I think it could be a bad idea for me to go and walk her. I am going to remind them to walk her in the opposite direction if possible because she has her own mind and she will think they are taking her home. Ahhh so much worrying..would love to make it stop. In the meantime a good night to all of you and many thanks for all the good thoughts. Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

When performing a LDDS test it is very important for the dog to be as calm as possible. I really don't think doing the ultrasound in between is a good idea because the ultrasound will likely cause Trixie to stress out and this could skew the results of the LDDS test.

[Budsters Mom]

Sorry Barbara, I called you Trixie OOPS!! :eek:

I'd like to tell you that your worrying will ease up eventually. With help from this forum, I'm sure it will. Mine hasn't as of yet. It has become more manageable since stumbling across the wonderful group of dog lovers known as K9Cushings. Sending blessings and love your way. Trixie is very lucky to have pet parents who love her so much! I'll be thinking of you and Trixie tomorrow.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Simba's Mom]

Welcome Barbara and Trixie, so glad you found this forum. I think we were all hot messes when we first found out our fur babies had cushings, but with learning about it on this site, we can finally breathe a little easier...just knowing you are not alone is amazing..take care we are here for you and Trixie too!

[Trixie]

Lori- I believe you on this and will speak to the vet on Monday morning regarding the sono timing and Trixie's stress level and maybe making a different plan. Trixie is high strung as it is. She is ok walking in the vet's office because there are treats upon entry..then she tries desperately to get out the door. And this time she won't even be able to get the treat. :(
No problem Kathy, I am always calling my kids Trixie or Trixie my kids names! Funny thing is I didn't even notice.
Thank you Letti-yes..it's a world of difference having this board to come to. A relief for sure!

[frijole]

Also - 'lots' of water is relative term. :) A dog drinks on average an ounce for every pound so in your case 14 ounces a day, just under 2 cups. measure it and tell us what your dog is drinking. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Barbara,

Some of us have taken our babies out of the clinic between draws to help them stay calmer. Sitting in the car, taking a walk, going for a ride....something to help their stress level stay as low as possible. So if it's possible for you to take that time, ask your vet if you can take Trixie out of the clinic between blood draws. Most don't mind. ;)

You said she can't have a treat this time....is she being fasted for the Cushing's test?

And I agree with Lori about the US in the middle of a cush test 110%. :)

Hang in there! You're doing a great job, Mom!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Budsters Mom]

;)Hi Barbara,
Buddy was stressed when he came back from his Ultrasound

Note for Clinician:
4:30 PM
Back from AUS. Initially vocalizing and appears stressed in cage but quiets down.

That doesn't mean that Trixie will be. Buddy was very ill at the time and doctors had been poking at him for more than 10 hours. My point being, that there's no way Buddy would've been calm enough to do another blood drawn for the Low Dose 8 hour test after his Ultrasound. I understand that you want to get both tests done and I probably know less than anybody on the panel, but if it were me I would do them separately. I don't think doing it all in one day will be easier on Trixie, but you know your furbaby. Sending happy, healing thoughts your way,

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Reading all your newest comments late...just back from my day caring for my mother.
I am going to the vet between 8 and 8:30am and I will speak to them about the day and what I think would work best for Trixie. I would definitely like to see her during the day and do anything possible to ease her stress, sit with her or whatever. I'm so nervous about everything tonight. Feel like I will fall asleep and then wake up after an hour or two with a total panic attack.

Leslie-they told me she had to be fasted for the ultrasound. I think they were planning on that first.

Kim- I will measure her intake of water...was doing it the other day and I think I ended up between 18 and 20 oz.

My reason for trying to get to these tests quickly is really because of her high liver levels. She is on the Denamarin now but it's can't be good to have the levels remain high for long. I don't want her liver to get damaged. Well I was just thinking the ultrasound should come first right? In case they would see something obvious that would rule out Cushing's..(if that's possible) because then the test would not be needed, though I think she really covers all the classic symptoms.
I will most certainly talk to the vet about the stress level and the effect that will have on the test. I just keep thinking that if we have the ultrasound tomorrow and then have to go back during the week for the 8 hour test she really won't want to go near the place. I feel like she will be even more stressed to go back there. I don't know what's right. I feel worried and mixed up right now. I won't do anything tomorrow that I don't feel is right for Trixie. :(

[molly muffin]

Hi, checking in to see how it went with Trixie today! Hope she wasn't too stressed out. Hope you weren't either.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

You are Three hours ahead of me, so Trixie should be home by now. I hope all went well. Try to get some rest and let us know how it went when you get a chance.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Hey Sharlene and Kathy..yes we are home!! yay! Everything went well. Trixie was actually at the vet all day long from 8:30am-6:30pm. I think she did better than my husband and I did waiting for her. ;) She had a dog she knows from our block there with her...he had to get an EKG.
Ok..well she had the low dose test and then when everything was over they did the sonogram. I did decide to let them do the sono today, but it was decided it would be better done at the end as to not skew the test with added stress. I really felt strongly about getting it all over with-for both of us. I wanted to bring her home knowing we did not have to go back this week for anything. Her little belly is all shaved. I think she probably likes it-now when she's on the cool floor she's can really get cool.
They told me she was actually pretty mellow all day. Hard to believe because believe me this is not a mellow dog, but I don't care now that she's back. Trixie wouldn't eat there even though they offered her usual food. So- she flew into the house ready to eat and drink. Now she is zonked out on the couch, I'm sure she didn't lay down at all in the cage.
The vet was great and wasn't rushing our questions even though many dogs were checking out and it was getting late and just seemed busier than I've ever seen it there.
So I will post all the info I get. He will probably call me with results but I will ask for a copy of this test so I have the numbers. I am so happy that at least this part is over. I know there is more to come but I hope all goes smoothly. Still nervous about coping with this but now that this part is over I am feeling better. Looking forward to getting her to the park in the morning...it's finally warmer here in NY.

sorry wrote this earlier in the evening but got a little bogged down with stuff. I will have questions about Trilostane once there are official test results and discussions with the vet. Thanks again everyone for all the support!!:)

[molly muffin]

Yay, I'm glad it is all over for today. I bet you and Trixie are both happy about that!!!

Oh fun! Park day! I love when it gets warmer in the spring. Now if we could just skip the thunderstorms and get right to sunny and warm, I'd be really good! :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

So glad to hear it went good at the vet with Trixie, praying for good results!!!

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara, :)
So glad that Trixie's back home where she's loved and doted upon.:) Waiting and not knowing is the hardest part. Once you know, you'll be able to push forth with whatever you need to do. Count you blessing tonight. There is so very much to be thankful for!

Kathy and Buddy:D

[Trixie]

thanks Kathy. Love your photo of Budster..what a cutie. I just love dogs. :D

[Trixie]

Now I am over my happiness of having the all day vet visit over with and in nervous/upset/panic mode once again. The vet called and yes, Cushing's is confirmed. (no surprise really but the reality is awful) No Adrenal tumor and results show Pituitary.
Now meds will start and that is what is frightening me. So all those doing Trilostane--help!
Vet will prescribe low dose/2x a day which is the protocol Dr. Peterson suggests as best in his blog. Vet said he will call in at the compounding pharmacy because Trixie is in between doses. We'll start at 7mg 2x a day. Trixie is 14 pounds. I don't have the numbers from the low dose test yet because he just called me, but I'll go by and pick up the test results at some point. We will do the test to check...(I forget the letters--is in ATH?) in 7 days from the start which I think will be tomorrow.
So for those who are using this did you see tummy upset/diarrhea right away or a couple days into it or not at all? Bad lethergy? After a few days did it get worse or better? I know all dogs are different, all meds are at different levels and some may not have any side effects or have many, but I'm just trying to anticipate what to maybe expect and what happened with other dogs.
He said he has good results with the low dosage. I am so worried though. I am home so I can sit here and watch her like a hawk...have been doing this the last few weeks anyway. I may have to run out here and there on Thursday but would still be here all day...just quick errands...if the dog appears ok you can leave her for a bit right? I probably sound crazy asking questions like that. I'm just so worried now. Trixie has no other health issues, she's been very active even during all the Cushings symptoms which for her have been the drinking, the eating, the peeing, and a little hesitation before jumping up. Thanks for any advice on this. Barbara :eek:

[Trixie]

forgot to add panting and the high liver levels to the symptoms Trixie has shown. She will stay on the Denamarin while on the Trilostane and can have a Pepcid ac to hopefully keep the tummy gurgles away.

[Harley PoMMom]

I believe the starting dose your vet has rx'd for Trixie is great. We have seen when dogs are started at the lower end of the dosage scale do much better and usually have no adverse side effects.

Here is a link from our Resource Thread with info about Trilostane/Vetoryl: Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185)

Just a reminder that Trilostane has to be given with food and that the ACTH stim test has to be done 4-6 hours after the dose of Trilostane, all that info plus a whole bunch more can be found with the link I provided for you.

You will do a great job, no worries ok? ;) We are here to help, remember that. :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Trixie]

Thank you Lori..feeling so weepy but happy to know you agree with the low dose. I know I do..was happy with his approach. Yes..he said most definitely will be given with food.
I'm going to check out the info on the link right now. I am hoping to start the drug tomorrow once the compounding place has it ready. They are here in the city so I think I will have it tomorrow.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Right here with you. Well, now optimally you don't want to see lethargy and diarrhea, that is not good. So, you might see some slowing down as the cortisol drops, but hopefully it'll just go as smooth as butter with no worries. I do love it when a vet starts out low and does proper testing. I've come to appreciate that even more these days it seems.
I think you are going to be fine and yes you can run out and do errands. Just base it all on how Trixie does and how she seems.
Like Lori said, we're right here with you. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

oh thank you Sharlene...these responses really help me calm down.
Yes, I am so happy with the low dose too. I feel it will be a safe beginning. I am lucky that the vet is right around the block. They are open 7 days. I can walk there in about 4 minutes once I'm out of my building. I also have the Animal Medical Center 10 minutes away so I am covered in case of an emergency day or night. I think with this nice low dose I shouldn't have a crisis but I guess you never know.
Didn't know the vet all that well before this...there are 3 in the practice and I've seen all of them for check ups and various appts. but he has been attentive and seems to know Cushing's and the treatments very well. Thank goodness! Deep breaths. Thanks again.

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
I was sorry to get you news. Your doctor seems to know what he's doing, which is awesome! I am having a huge problem with that! Buddy did have an upset stomach for a few days while this cortisol was dropping and he had a hard time settling. He had no diarrhea or vomiting. His stomach has been fine since. Buddy's biggest issue were his allergies. They went haywire when his cortisol started dropping. Hopefully you don't have that problem! Buddy is on 20 mg of Trilostane one time per day. He weighs 16.9 pounds. That may change because he had his first ACTH monitoring test today. We should get the test results tomorrow. Every furbaby is different. Trixie might just sail through without any symptoms at all! She is starting on a very low dose which is great! She seems to be in excellent hands! It's hard to leave them when you know that they're not feeling well. Take your cues from Trixie. She's been feeling pretty well all along so that is a huge plus. I wish I could be more help.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Thank you Kathy. With each response I feel more relieved and so lucky to have first hand advice. I am sorry for Buddy's allergies, I hope they start to clear up. I guess all the extra cortisol was good for that but not much else. Are they worse than they were before the Cushings?

Wow..don't know how I would have calmed down without everyone here. Feeling relieved to hear Buddy did not have tummy trouble. I know this doesn't mean Trixie won't, but hoping it's not an issue. She is at her worst when having gastro problems.
I hope that Buddy's test results are good...I guess that would mean everything at the right level? I don't even really know..but guess I'll be learning soon. Thanks again for the support, it is really helping!! :)
Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Trixie,

Daisy had diarrhea on the 6th day of single dosing with Trilostane. Since we've split the same dose into 2x a day, she's been fine for the most part.

A little sluggish for the first couple of days, but not bad.

[Simba's Mom]

Hey just heard you got the cushing diagnoses, sometimes thats the hardest day. It felt like someone was taking Simba away from me and I couldn't do anything about it..And seriously no one I talked to had heard of it before, like whats going on a new disease and my pup has to get it...my sorrow turned to anger and thats when I decided to find out as much as I could about cushings and how it was going to affect my Sim..So many months later I'm still get weepy and angry, but now I'm not alone, this site is awesome..so many stories, so many pups, but so much first had knowledge, no better place then this....take care and remember we are here for you through the highs and the lows....sending hugs to you and Trixie too!!

[Trixie]

Thank you Valerie and Letti..everyone is so helpful and I'm hoping things go smoothly with Trixie once we start the medication. She's sleeping soundly on the couch right now..
The support here has been great and made a nervous night a lot less nervous. :)

[doxiesrock912]

I love your avatar!!!!!

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
If you are interested in private instant messaging with any of us directly, enable them in your options:D. I just learned how to do it today with help from Sharlene. I sent you a message to check on you and Trixie. You won't be able to access it without enabling instant messaging. Private messaging is your choice. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. You can continue to talk to us this way if that's more comfortable for you. :p

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy. I am interested in all the message venues! I private messaged you back and I hope I did it right! You should find it in your box. I hope! Did Buddy have a good day?

[Trixie]

Trixie's Trilostane is coming from the prescription place on Friday. They called today to see if I wanted microtabs or capsules...who knew I would have a choice? I opted for the microtabs. The Vet told me it made no difference. He has full confidence in this compound animal pharmacy which they use all the time..they are just a few blocks uptown from me but said they would deliver it to my building.
So I'll start Trixie on Saturday. My vet is open on the weekends all day. He said we are on a very low dose and there really shouldn't be a problem but luckily it's right around the corner. We will do the follow up test the following week on the 8th or 9th day. Does that all sound right?
Trixie seems so okay...other than the over drinking, eating etc. She had a very long walk and park time this morning, home for a bath in the sink (not a favorite activity for her) and then got all frisky after getting dried. She ran around the house with a toy like a puppy. You think it's all that cortisol giving her all that energy? She's almost 9 but she sure doesn't act like it. Hope that doesn't go away once she's on the medication. I have to keep reminding myself that she has those high liver values and she needs that Trilostane to get that under control. Hoping the best for everyone's dogs tonight. Hope they are all comfortable and cozy at home. :)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

I think starting Trixie on the low dose she will probably be fine, it's the proper dosage to start at, but you know all the things to watch for right? And you have the vets practically on your doorstep and care available 24/7, so you actually are in the best scenario possible.
Yes, the cortisol does make them feel pretty good quite a bit. :) If only it didn't have such bad affects on the body. It also can cover up things like arthritis, etc. They basically have been able to be self medicating for a long time usually. So you can expect that it is possible that you might see Some slowing down on the medicine, but what you are looking for is to get them at a normal level of what they Should have in their body.
Doesn't ever dog, no matter if they dislike the bath or not, think they have just had a grand experience at the end of it and run around like they are puppies afterwards? :) :) Molly does that too. I love it! She is like a little puppy. I bet you love those after bath craziness too. I know I do.
How nice that they will deliver right to your door! Hello awesome!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Yes Barbara, I did get your private message and there should be a response in your box.:) You can send me a message any time you want or need to. Please bear in mind that I do work, so I won't always be able to respond right away.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
YES...just love the after-bath friskiness. Reminds me of puppyhood when Trixie would just take off like crazy, run around in a frenzy and then just plop down from exhausting herself.
Trixie is quite partial to tearing up paper bags--the bigger the better. She's a real life recycling machine.
I actually use the offer of a bag to test out how she is feeling. At times when she's had some tummy trouble, to gauge how bad it is I will mention the word "bag" and if she quick looks up ready to get at it I know she is probably doing ok.
I asked the Vet if I needed any prednisone just in case and he was a little reluctant. He felt we would not have a problem starting out and then see what the first recheck test says.
I suppose I know what to look for but welcome any advice....just worried if she is a little out of sorts I hope that I will be able to judge just how badly she feels. I think I will, as I know her every move and behavior but I'm nervous. I'm sure I will be obsessed with watching her.
The vet said I will give 7mg twice a day. So- I feed Trixie after we come back from the morning walk (though if she's not up for it we won't do a long one)..usually she eats around 10am. (She gets low-fat treats at the park). So she will have the first dose at 10am with breakfast. That means the next does would be at 10pm...I suppose I will have to give her a partial serving of food which I will hold back from her reg. 6pm meal. He said that was fine...do you all think it is? Would she need more food with the nightime dose? Is it good to take before going sleep? Well, I mean she sleeps most of the evening here anyway but then gets in bed with us around midnight. If the pill will make her more lethargic then maybe it's better she gets the second dose overnight? I don't know what's best. Vet said it sounded fine like that...but what are others doing with a 2 dose Trilostane? Yikes- one question has multiplied like a rabbit! I have more...but I will wait and post again tomorrow as it's late here. Thanks again everyone! Barbara

[Trixie]

I have just picked up the copy of Trixie's low dose test results....I have to read up on what these numbers mean because I actually don't understand it yet. Have to run but wanted to post this for any responses...Looks like we will begin the Trilostane tomorrow. 7mg 2x a day.

Sample 1. 4.7 ug/dL
Sample 2. <0.7 ug/dL
Sample 3. 6.2 ug/dL

She is about 15 pounds, almost 9 years old.
I am constantly watching everything Trixie is doing. Over the last week drinking on average about 24-26 oz of water a day, and urinating a lot. The last 2 days a bit less than that and not so much urination as in the days prior. Still jumping up on the couch without problems, has good energy. Mostly lying on the floor but no panting lately. Not too much of a pot belly but more noticeably bloated towards bedtime. Sleeping fine. Tummy gurgling in the evenings..half a pepcid ac for that. Still on Denamarin for the liver levels. I don't want to see any bad symptoms..but when I see a lessening of those she has it makes me nervous to start meds. There is the liver to think about though...her levels were quite high. Most recent urinalysis results are due later today. Opinions and advice welcome! :)
Many thanks to everyone for all the help I have already gotten!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
I can't interpret the test results for you, because I have no clue what they mean. A lovely K9 Cushings angel interpreted mine. I would like to make a suggestion. I keep a short journal where I note Buddy's med times (he take Benadryl also) and make comments about any changes in behavior, activity level, etc. That really helps me to see a pattern if one develops and also reminds me of questions that I need to ask the forum. It's not a big thing, just a few lines to remind me.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

ok...Trixie's Trilostane just got here...I was wrong on the dosage (I said 7mg)...
It is 6mg 2x a day. I must have misunderstood my vet when he told me. I am fine with starting on a low dose.
Thanks Kathy...good suggestion about writing down-I'll do that. Yes, I hope those who understand this test results will post since I don't know what it means. I will try to read up on it later when I have a chance.
B.

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy is on Trilostane 20 mg. He takes it once per day. He weighs 16.9 pounds. Trixie is starting on a very low-dose. The lower the dose, the less chance for a reaction. Take a breath Barbara. It is going to all work out.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Harley PoMMom]

I have just picked up the copy of Trixie's low dose test results....I have to read up on what these numbers mean because I actually don't understand it yet. Have to run but wanted to post this for any responses...Looks like we will begin the Trilostane tomorrow. 7mg 2x a day.

Sample 1. 4.7 ug/dL
Sample 2. <0.7 ug/dL
Sample 3. 6.2 ug/dL

She is about 15 pounds, almost 9 years old.


I believe that those LDDS test results are indicative of Pituitary-dependent Cushing's disease. Here's a guide when interpreting a LDDS test:
If the eight-hour postdexamethasone administration cortisol concentration is above the reference range, then evaluate the baseline and four-hour postdexamethasone administration cortisol concentrations to see whether cortisol suppression occurred during the eight hours. If at least 50% cortisol concentration suppression is present at the four- or eight-hour time points, the definitive diagnosis is PDH and additional adrenal function tests are not needed.

I also think that Trixie will do well on her dosage of Trilostane and remember we are here for you both. :)

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy and HarleyPomMom,
I wish I understood the whole low dex thing but I think I really have to re-read about it a couple times. Next question-any consensus on the timing of giving the Trilostane 2 x a day?
Trixie gets some treats when she's out on her morning walk. Then she usually eats breakfast between 9 and 10 after a walk. That means she would get the first dose then and the next at 9-10 pm. How does this sound? I figured that at least for the first few days, if she is up for the usual walk she would come back from some exercise-have her pill with her food and then she usually sleeps/rests for awhile anyway.
She sleeps much of the evening-goes out around 10 for her last walk (short one). So she would have the 2nd pill right before going out with a small portion of food and some treats when she gets back inside.
Does this sound ok? Or should she be taking the pill first thing in the morning after waking up--like 7:30am with a portion of food? The vet seemed to say to me that either was fine as long as it's 12 hours apart. Would love to let her get in a good walk in the morning and have a full meal with that first dose. Need some hand holding...kind of scared to give her that first pill tomorrow. :eek:
Thanks, Barbara

[molly muffin]

The main thing to think about with the timing of the morning dose is that the ACTH test has to be done within 4 - 6 hours of that dose being given. Base it on what time an ACTH would be scheduled to know when to give it to her. If you give it at 7:30 the test would need to be done at 11:30 to 1:30 latest. If you give it at 9:30, then the test would Start at 1:30 - 3:30, this puts it a bit late for that testing, so I'd probably go with an earlier time of the 7:30 8:00, but it's up to you as to when you would be scheduling and account for her full test time.

got to run
hugs,
Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
I agree with Sharlene. As you know, Buddy just had his first ACTH test done. Trilostane should be given at the same time every day. I only dose Buddy once per day. He gets his pill with breakfast around 7 AM. Sometimes on the weekends, it's closer to 7:30 AM. If I were dosing him twice per day, I would still stay with the earlier times. Buddy's tummy gets a little queasy if he eats right before he goes to bed, although all fur babies are different. As Sharlene said, the morning time is better because,of the ACTH test 4 to 6 hour window.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Yes...good point to remember-- the next test. I think I am going to aim for dose #1 after the walk at 9-9:15am, I will not wait as late as 10am . It's just the time she is used to eating and I think I would like to leave her eating schedule the same, but I do appreciate the advice. Of course it would have to leave enough time for the test. The vet is open until 7pm. So she would go in for the test at 1:15 which would be 4 hours after and then she gets the injection, after that they test her 2 hours later and then again 2 hours after that? How long for the total stay...not counting checking in and any prep they do?? Is it a total of 4 hours from beginning of the test until the end? Then my dose time would still work okay for the vets office.
I am being optimistic that we will not be giving up our morning walks and park time forever, and if that's the case we are not back until a little after 9am and then she eats. Trixie walks a mile or so off leash in Central Park...she loves it so much and so do I..(and my husband on the weekends). We love her to get time off of her leash outside. Hoping that even if we have to take a break while she is getting used to the medication that we'll be back to our usual schedule eventually and her dosing at breakfast would fit right into that.
Crossing my fingers!! Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

The ACTH Test Is different from the low-dose eight hour test. I think you have them confused. Please go back and read my thread about the ACTH test. There is a pre-draw. The drug is then given. A timer was set for 1 hour. Then they did a post draw. It only took a little over one hour after the test had started.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Harley PoMMom]

If your vet is using Cortrosyn as the stimulating agent for the ACTH stim test then the test will take 1 hour. A pre draw will be done first, then the stimulating agent will be injected, one hour later another draw, the post draw is taken.

If your vet is using the gel, then the ACTH stim test will take 2-3 hours.

Here is a link about ACTH test: What's the Best Protocol for ACTH Stimulation Testing in Dogs and Cats? (http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/whats-best-protocol-for-acth.html)

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy & Harley, Yes...I get a bit mixed up on the tests-and worse I don't understand the numbers and what's a good number or a bad number. I will settle down and read up on this though and try to understand it better.
So, the next test-to check the level while she's on the Trilostane- is only 1 or 3 hours depending on which stim agent is used?
That's good...a much shorter stay for that one. :)

[Harley PoMMom]

The LDDS test, which is a 8 hour test, is used to diagnose Cushing's and sometimes it can differentiate between adrenal dependent Cushing's and pituitary dependent Cushing's. In this test the dog's adrenal glands are to suppress (not make cortisol).

A little more about the LDDS test; There are 3 draws for this test, pre, 4 hour and 8 hour draw. A pre or baseline is taken first then Dexamethasone is injected, 4 hours later another draw, 8 hours later the last draw. Labs have different cut-off values but most of them are 1.4 or 1.5 ug/dl. One looks at the 8 hour number first, if this number is over the cut-off number (1.4 or 1.5) than the dog has Cushing's disease. Then a look at the 4 hour draw and pre (baseline) number, has there been suppression during the 8 hours, if at least 50% cortisol concentration suppression is present at the four- or eight-hour time points, the definitive diagnosis is PDH and additional adrenal function tests are not needed.

The ACTH stimulation test, also used sometimes for diagnosing Cushing's, is the best test to use for monitoring treatment in dogs that are taking Vetoryl/Trilostane and Lysodren/Mitotane. This test stimulates the adrenals (makes them make cortisol.)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Trixie]

Thanks Lori..I've got it now. I just read Dr. Peterson's page on the ACTH test..so I understand that one now. The LDDS is what Trixie already had. Thanks...starting to catch on...
I'm not usually quite this mixed up! haha :D
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Don't worry Barbara, this can be Very confusing when you first start out, but in no time at all, you'll be a pro and know the tests and timing like the back of your hand. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene...I'm reading up as much as I can and trying to learn. It's the anticipation of starting the Trilostane that makes me anxious. Tomorrow morning she'll have her first dose...6mg with her breakfast food. I'll post our progress tomorrow...hopefully there will not be much to report. I'm hoping for no major side effects! Crossing my fingers.
Thanks for your kind reply! Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Barbara, you're going to do great! Owner observation is a huge part in treating a dog and you already have that part down pat!!!

Please do keep us updated and if you have any questions do not hesitate to ask them. ;)

[Trixie]

Trixie had her first 6mg Trilostane about 3 hours ago after an hour walking outside. So far so good....no problems to report. Whew...kept having irrational thoughts that she would take one pill and something terrible would happen. All is well...Trixie still barking at sounds in the hallway.. usual watchdog duty intact. Next dose at 10pm tonight. Hoping all stays uneventful.
Thanks to everyone for getting me to this first treatment day! :D
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

UNEVENTFUL IS GREAT!!!:D
Savor the moment!

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

I am doing just that Kathy. Now that I got through actually giving the first dose I move on with worry that after a few days I could start to see things I don't want to. The anxiety monster takes over again. It is what it is...can't do anything but move forward and try to remain positive. I don't know why I do this to myself....worrying about this is consuming. I'm sure everyone can relate.
Meanwhile Trixie is fine...begging for food and resting...nothing out of the ordinary but it's just the start.

[Boriss McCall]

You & Trixie are doing great. I think every one of us were frightened when we started the meds.
I am hoping you will start seeing the positive effects of the meds soon. ;)

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,:)
I think we're all scared and somewhat confused. :confused: The first month that I found out that Buddy had Cushing's I was overwhelmed. His illness consumed my every waking thought. I would worry about him constantly. I'd stare at him and watched for every little twitch. After he was so ill and almost died, I would sit up at night watching to make sure that he was breathing. Needless to say, I didn't get anything else done. I was smothering him and didn't know how to stop. Yes, the meds are scary. Once they start to show positive signs, it's all a little easier to deal with. Trixie is in excellent hands. Enjoy every precious moment that you have with her. Remember you are improving her quality-of-life.:)

Kathy and Buddy

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, you are doing a great job with Trixie, and a lot of us know how scary it is to give our pups their first dose. I'm glad that Trixie is starting on a low dose, makes us worriers less worried :) Just keep that watchful eye on Trixie and journal what you notice.....sending hugs!

[Trixie]

We are on to day two of Trilo and so far so good. Trixie slept fine...though I kept waking up and checking her out...just like you Kathy. The timing of getting the pill has worked right into our usual schedule. Trixie was all set to go on a long walk this morning.
She has not used a pad yet which she has been doing most days, though not sure if I would be seeing a difference quite yet, would I? I will be monitoring the water intake. The high last week was about 26-28oz. Double her weight. So we'll see how it goes. I know this is a low dosage. I wish more than anything that the low dose ends up helping without going higher...but I know that probably is not realistic.
I know about adjustments and the endocrine system because I have had all kinds of crazy thyroid stuff myself. Started hypo then got autoimmune hyper (Graves Disease), had to do a radio iodine trtmnt and end up autoimmune hypo, adjusting meds, but not too much anymore. So it's an ever changing thing.
Anyway back to Trixie- she is acting her usual "Schnauzery" self after 3 doses of the med. Barking at noises, Sleeping fine, eating fine (still hungry), and best of all-so far no gastro issues. (so happy for that-hope it stays) Making sure her pill comes with plenty of food. We did not have a big back leg problem...just a little hesitation before jumping but jumped without a problem. Didn't have a fur loss yet either. So it's drinking, peeing, eating, a bit of the panting and of course the liver issue which she is still on Denamarin for.
It is curious to me how many posts mention gurgling tummies. Trixie has had noticeable plumbing noises for a few years and during earlier gastro-intestinal issues. What's the relationship between the excess cortisol and the gastro system? Guess it's not a good one. There were a few times Trixie ended up with pancreatic type symptoms but never tested positive for it. Seems like these things are all tied up together with the endocrine system as many of these Cushings dogs have had ongoing gastro stuff before diagnosis. Complicated stuff.
Thanks again to everyone for all the support! Barbara

[addy]

Cushings pups are prone to pancreatitis. Some specialists think Cush pups are prone to repeated bacterial infections in their digestive systems (prior to treatment) but I am not sure how much of that is speculation on their part.:):):)

You are doing just fine. It will get easier.

[Trixie]

Addy,
In looking back-- June of last year Trixie had a bad bout of diarrhea, throwing up etc....got meds and she ended up and on and off with it all summer long. Had to run to emergency one night because of bloody diarrhea. They kept testing for all the usual--giardia etc.. and it wasn't until October that the vet decided to do her own test at the office, (not send to the lab) with the microscope and she discovered Clostridium. Apparently sometimes hard to see but the overgrowth of this bacteria causes colitis in dogs and is sometimes hard to eradicate. She gave Tylan powder with the flagyl and after a couple weeks or so it was finally gone, but it took months to get there.
When we went for the well check-up (in Feb) and the liver levels were high they suspected she might have a leftover infection from the clostridium so we started with amoxicillin and denamarin. During this time I was beginning to notice the increase in thirst and a couple other symptoms. That brings us to now..
It does make me wonder about all the minor gastro issues we had along the way-there were many, and how it all relates to Cushings in the elder years. So many people seem to have had the same type of history. I was always worried about Pancreatitis (common in schnauzers) so long ago we went to a low-fat diet and even stayed away from things like carrots because of the sugar. I use a probiotic from the vet and give her non fat yogurt a few times a week. Luckily Trixie is not a picky eater.
I would think that it all ties in somehow...but I'm no scientist. Just in reading posts here there are many similarities prior to Cushings diagnosis. Or maybe most dogs just are prone to bouts of gastro upset. So curious about it all.
Barbara

[addy]

Well they do like to eat bad stuff, dont they?:D:D

I have not seen the gastro upset in my non Cush pup. Zoe went through 3 vets, countless tests that always came back normal, umpteen foods, none worked, metronidazole was the only thing that helped her, I even waited to treat her Cushings because of her colitis. Then she swallowed a piece of toy, they had to go in via endescopy to retrieve it, while inside, they took biopsies and subsequently diagnosed Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

So since Cush pups are prone to repeated infections, maybe they just cant fight off bacteria the same way non Cush pups can.

Using a probiotic is a good thing.:):):)

[molly muffin]

Dito, love the probiotic!

Cushing dogs definitely seem to be prone to gastro issues and is often (from what we see on this forum) a lead up sometime of a year prior to cushing diagnosis. Not that every gastro leads to cushings, but that a significant number of cushings dogs has gastro issues.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

From perusing posts here it seems so Sharlene. Just hate the tummy upsets as I'm sure everyone does. Always provokes anxiety in me when any gastro stuff starts. I do give Trixie one half a Pepcid AC at bedtime which seems to work well for her.
So for those doing Trilo/Vetoryl how long before you noticed some lessening of some symptoms??--let's say the over drinking for instance. Just curious about that, not that everyone would be the same.
Trixie is definitely still very hungry. Drinking only slightly less today (and today isn't over so may not be less) but I would think 3 doses would be too soon to have any real noticeable change. I'll wait for all that and just be happy that we have no adverse reactions as of today which I am very thankful for.
Hope everyone and their pups have a good Sunday night! ;)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Usually drinking, eating are some of the first things you notice change.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Glad to hear that Trixie is doing well, and you too!! Simba's panting went away first, then his thirst and pot belly...I would say in the first few months I noticed changes... Sim takes 25mg of Trilostane in the am, I did notice when I missed a dose because phamacy was late sending meds because of bad storms, that I should skip the day rather then give him the meds later, it's best to keep them on schedule...take care!

[Trixie]

Thanks Letti..Trixie will be on day 3 today so we are still newly into this. I am tracking her water consumption. We'll see how it goes. Today I will schedule her next test (acth) can never remember the letters. We'll go next week. Will be crossing my fingers that things stay uneventful here. :)

[Budsters Mom]

So far, so good!:)
I'll keep my fingers crossed that life for you and Trixie remains uneventful! Tht's for the update. I'll be thinking of you both.

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Thank you Kathy. From what I can tell so far today Trixie is drinking less. Would it be possible that this is happening after only 5 doses of the medication?? Thought it would take at least a few more days to have any effect. She has had about 9 oz of water today, so far- it's now 3pm. Of course...she could make up for it later in the day but so far drinking seems lighter than it's been the last few weeks. She was averaging about 26-28 oz a day over the last week.
Urinated this morning on her walk between 7 and 8am and then again inside on a puppy pad at noon and not since. She's resting now...she seems to breathe a bit faster than I would think for when she's asleep but maybe that's my imagination. :rolleyes: She's been fine and acting "herself" all day.
Just trying to really watch all of this and wondering if anyone has seen reductions in drinking this soon after starting?
Thanks for the hand holding! :o Barbara

[labblab]

Yes, it is possible that Trixie may be drinking less. :)

I saw improvement in my Cushpup within the first couple of days of dosing.

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

Yes it's possible,:)
Buddy started drinking much less water within a day or two of his initial dose. Definitely less peeing and less drinking right away.:)

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Thanks Marianne and Kathy,
Good to know. Drinking does seems slightly less today. Eating though, remains unchanged for sure..not that I expected differently. My husband came home early to take Trixie for a walk and she "walked him" straight to the pet food store...free treats there. She did this to me the other day too. He got her out of there and walked around the block where she then led him to another dog food store! I kid you not! She knows where all these stores are...there are 3 within 5 city blocks of our apt.
Starting to worry about leaving her here in May when my daughter graduates from college. We have to be gone for 2 days. We decided my other daughter will stay here with Trixie. I can't think about leaving her with a pet sitter while we are doing medication. Just want her to be at home and doing her usual thing. Hoping things will be okay with her at that time...just can't shake being anxious about everything...and now with this news from Boston which is so sad and senseless! I hope there isn't anyone on this board affected by what happened there today.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

You can't put anything over on Trixie, she knows every store in the neighborhood. Bet she has them on speed dial when you aren't looking too. hehehehe

Glad Trixie is doing so well. Keep it up!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trixie]

haha Sharlene...you've got that right! These pet supply shops around here all leave their front doors open and I guess all these dogs need to do is sniff!!
Meanwhile I take it back about Trixie's water intake subsiding..:confused: wrong!
she ended up pretty much the same in her drinking today 24-26oz.
She didn't drink much all morning. Her hunger and thirst seem to get worse and peak in the evening.
But still very thankful for no adverse effects on day 3 of the Trilostane. She will go for her test on day 10..next Tuesday.
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
It is hard to leave our fur babies, particularly when we know that they are not well. Worrying just comes with the job description, I'm afraid.
You are leaving Trixie with your daughter for only two days. I know that seems a long time to you right now! Trixie does not have to be taken anywhere. She will be home on her own turf in familiar surroundings, with a person who loves her. Your daughter will be able to stick pretty closely to Trixie's usual schedule. It's the best case senario. Trixie will probably love all the individual attention that she gets from your daughter. :)

Kathy and Buddy:)

[molly muffin]

Lets see what her numbers look like at the 10 day tests. :) It could be that in the end Trixie is one of those who will eventually be on a twice a day dose. This is where the dose is split and half of it is in the morning and half in the evening. Or it could be that eventually the dosage would go up. But we don't know yet.
Some dogs see changes immediately, some see changes at day 10 - 13, and others even later, into a few weeks. Cortisol can continue to go down once it starts for awhile on the same dose.
Every dog has their own response to the medicine. So don't worry yet. Just monitor and carry on.
You're doing great!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
Trixie is already on 2 doses a day...6mg at each dose. A low start but I was comfortable with that. She gets the 1st dose at 10am, 2nd at 10pm. The first half of the day goes really well and her symptoms are not too crazy but in the evening...well tonight she was just ravenous, drinking and peeing on the puppy pad. She is calm now...(finally) and napping on the cool floor.
I think her long morning walk is really good for her and that's why mornings go so well. In the afternoon she hasn't had as much exercise as usual because I have my mother here now for 2 weeks and I can't leave her alone for more than 10 minutes so Trixie hasn't had a nice long afternoon walk that I would normally take her on.

Today is only day 4, I have to keep reminding myself of that. I shouldn't expect immediate results. I guess I feel like all of a sudden our evenings are a bit worse than they were. I know there is no predicting all of this but tonight it's just thrown me a bit.
I notice when she's resting that she seems to breathe rather quickly...is this kind of the same panting type of behavior maybe?
I think I'm starting to just be obsessed with watching everything she's doing and I guess it's getting to me.
ugh. Thanks for listening to the craziness. :eek:
Barbara

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy..I know you are right--it's only 2 days away and all will be okay! I keep telling myself the same things. I have just been so nervous the last couple of days. When I see Trixie drinking so much and so ravenous..I just feel so badly for her. I hope I'll see some change in a week or so...I hope the dose is not too low to do anything at all. I know this is better than any ill effects though so I'm happy for that.

I'm probably feeling it more because I also have my mother here for a 2 week stay while her caregiver is on vacation. She's 92 and has Parkinson's and I can manage it pretty well but sometimes I wish there was a real nurse here with me! Between caring for her and Trixie..I'm just a little over the edge this week. Hopefully there will be some positive changes in Trixie over the next few days.
Thanks for saying all the right things!! ;) Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh fiddle Barbara, I forgot she started on twice a day dosing. The mind is the first to go they say! ACK!

don't worry, you'll see where Trixie is at and adjust as necessary. It can take a bit of tweaking with some of them and like I said, we've seen drops continue well past the 30 day mark sometimes. So, it's still early days. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy weighs 16.9 pounds. He is on 20 mg of trilostane once per day. I was dosing him for a week on an empty stomach, As per my vet's instructions. He had a really hard time of it that first week. His allergies went haywire and his stomach was so upset he could not settle. That is why my thread is called what it is. He made a miraculous recovery once I started dosing him properly. My point being, is Trixie started low and hasn't had any of those problems. By increasing her dosage in small amounts, she may not have any difficulty at all. She also has a vet that seems to know what he's doing. Try to think of it that way.:rolleyes:

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Right again Kathy. Going to be patient and see what we get on the first test. That will be next Tues, the 23rd. Going to try my best to stay calm until then.
No problem Sharlene...how could you remember who's doing which dosing!? My mind is fried more than anyone's lately! haha.
No more Cushing's tonight. Going to take a rest from the worry!
:rolleyes: Barbara

[molly muffin]

Kathy, don't forget, Buddy has one really Huge thing going for him. He has you! You have come through this bad experience, and you have learned more than your vet even knows about how to use the drug correctly and how to do what is best for Buddy. That my dear, is HUGE!

We are putting on our positive happy hats :) Trixie and Buddy are both a road to better days ahead. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Is everything okay? We didn't hear from you yesterday. I hope that your mom and Trixie are doing well. Remember to take care of yourself. I know how hard that is sometimes. :p

[Trixie]

Thank you Kathy--we're hanging in there! Still waiting to see some little improvements with Trixie's symptoms. Yesterday she drank more than ever! It was very warm here though so perhaps that added to her already crazy thirst.
She still sleeps all night without getting up to drink or pee so I think that's good. Trying to chill and not be so anxious about everything. We'll go for the first test post med on Tuesday. Then I suppose I will know more.
Meanwhile the next dilemma is Trixie could use a grooming. I bathed her last week and gave her a trim around her face and legs...but it's already growing in. I think I will try and talk to the groomer about trying to give her a quickie clipping. They always keep her for so long and I just don't want that to happen right now. I'll call tomorrow and see...just don't want to deal with it today.
How is Buddy doing? Hope he's going great and still going after those lil lizards!! ;)
Thanks for checking up on us! Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I groom Buddy myself. That way, I don't have to leave him anywhere. He gets anxious when taken from his environment and separated from family. Would it help if you called the groomer and tried to make an appointment for a specific time?Will your groomer do that? Then you could take her, wait, then bring her home after. :)

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

I'm going to try for that Kathy. She needs some types of grooming that I can't do myself..her ears, the nail trims and her back gets kind of "shaved" as most schnauzers do. I did do some trimming myself but now she needs more. I am going to talk to the groomers. I would like to keep it to an hour or less. If they say no, I'll ask around some of the other places around here. I just don't want to fur to get unruly and also she will stay cooler, which seems to be an issue as she is always laying on the floor. Her belly is still short from the sonogram shaving. We'll see...hopefully the groomer will cooperate with me. :rolleyes:

[molly muffin]

It took an hour and a half last week for Molly to get clipped down from her winter coat, get the ears and nails done. I take her directly there and then come back and pick her up. (that's when we normally do her nails, since she is such a problem child about her toe nails)

Hugs,
Sharlene

[Trixie]

Sharlene...wasn't Molly who showed her a bitwhen the nails got clipped?? Love that spunk!! I bet she looks really cute with her summer cut. :cool:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Yep, that was Molly. She showed her teeth and thought we were going to do permanent damage I'm sure.
She looks pretty much like the photo from her last hair cut that is in her album. One thing she has plenty of when she wants to is spunk. :) Hmm, probably add another 10 minutes for that nail clip, it did take awhile!
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

I am a little freaked out by how much water Trixie has had yesterday and today. It's more than ever and tomorrow will be day 7 of the Trilostane.
She was pretty much drinking 26-28 oz a day the last few weeks but yesterday was 32oz and today 35oz! I know it's water but should I be worried that she is having this much? She's about 15 pounds. She does not get up at night for water or peeing. Her first urine of the day does have color...later in the day it's pretty clear. I'll know after Tuesday's test if she needs a higher dose, maybe this dose is too low? Or does it take more days than 7 to notice anything...it's seems to be worse than before we started the med.
Otherwise she is acting fine..still ravenous but does not seem to be bothered by anything.
Thanks for any input,
Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Has her diet changed in any way, e.g. is she eating more dry food? How about the temperature, has it gotten hotter?

[Trixie]

Hi Lori,
I did attribute yesterday's intake to the warmer temps, she was thirsty when she came in from outside, it was fairly warm...but then today it wasn't and she drank even more. I give dry kibble as a treat when she begs during our meals...she's probably had more than usual due to her ravenous appetite...so could be part of it.
I thought after 7 days I would see at least a little less of the excessive drinking-or at least it would stay the same, but now for 2 days it's more.
I'm anxious to have her stim test so we can see where she is. It will be on the 12th day after starting the Trilostane . I am still thankful we started very low..6mg 2x a day but maybe it's too low or just isn't having an effect yet.
Urinalysis was done over a week ago and he said it was ok...a little protein present but he didn't say anything about that except we would check it again this week.
:( Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

I believe that the warmer temps and the extra amount of dry kibble are contributors to the increased drinking, but as you mentioned, it also could be her Cushing's is not quite controlled. I also think, as you do, that starting her out low was the right way to go. Usually after 2 weeks the increased drinking/urinating are the first symptoms to subside but all dogs are different! I guess we'll just have to wait to see the results of her upcoming ACTH stim test! You're doing a great job!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Trixie]

Thanks Lori,
Trixie's water intake seems more controlled today. Of course the day is not over yet, but for now I am happy for what seems to be a slight change for the better. I'll keep watching and thanks for your support!
Barbara

[Boriss McCall]

I know both of my dogs drink a lot more when it is warm outside. I bet that factored in.

I am glad things are going better today. I know my heart drops too when I see little signs of cushings. Pretty soon things will be running smooth & you will get to relax a little bit more. ;)

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara, :)

What is happening with Trixie and how are you holding up taking care of your mom? Trixie's first ACTH test is Tuesday, Is that correct?

Thinking of you and hoping all is well.:)

Kathy and Buddy- Lizard Hunter! :D

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
We are hanging in here. My mother is still here...we have one more week before her caregiver gets back..(not that I'm counting :rolleyes:)
Trixie is doing ok and yes, the atch is Tuesday.
I have been trying not read into Trixie's every move...sometimes I am successful and sometimes not!
She has been on Trilostane (6mg/2x a day) now for 8 days. I have not seen a change in symptoms yet. I have been tracking her water intake as that has been her most obvious symptom. There is little change. She's pretty much drinking twice her body wt each day.
In the mornings she is much more normal..before and after getting her pill at 10am she does not drink so much but after 4pm it really starts up...drinking and peeing. She does get up at night to do either which I suppose it really good.
We'll know more after the test ( I hope!). Maybe her low dose needs a little tweaking- I imagine it does since I don't see any changes. I still feel so worried about Trixie and it keeps me on edge.
I used to think how great it was when she slurped up her water...I was happy she was well hydrated. Now I hear her drinking so much and my heart sinks!
How's Buddy doing....did I read correctly that his allergies are better?? He's still doing fine on the Trilostane?
Thanks for checking in with me. :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I am glad to hear that you're hanging in there.:) Remember, Trixie's ACTH test needs to be started within 4-6 hours after taking her Trilostane with food in the morning, otherwise the test will to not be accurate. Dr. Peterson says 3 to 4 hours after taking the meds. I Erred on the safe side with Buddy and had his done 4 hours and 20 minutes after his trilo with breakfast. I stayed with him to make sure it was done in the proper time frame.

Buddy's allergies have been creating some problems again. Leslie has been helping me out with that. Details are on my thread.:)

Buddy's Cush symptoms for the moment are under control. Rear leg weakness is the only symptom that remains. Even that has gotten somewhat better, and hasn't stopped him from running around! :):D
Thanks for asking,

Kathy and Buddy - Lizard Hunter!:D

[Trixie]

Trixie's morning dose comes with 10am breakfast. The test is scheduled for 2pm...that's 4 hours. The girl at the front desk took the appt. but I asked her to check that my timing was correct, then a bit later the vet called me to confirm this time was good.
It is good, right?
It is so great that Cush symptoms have mostly subsided and Buddy is back to lizard hunting and having a good time outside!!
Have a great Sunday! :cool:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

The timing for the ACTH test is great!:) It is nice that your vet does appointments. :)

Take care and post the numbers when you have them. :)

Kathy and Buddy - Lizard Hunter!:D

[molly muffin]

Yep that sounds good to me too for timing. It will be great to get Trixie's numbers and see how she is responding. Even if the numbers aren't were they need to be Yet, they can continue to go down.
Take care!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Tomorrow's the day for Trixie's ACTH test. I bring her at 2pm...she won't be happy to go back to the vet and I hate, hate, hate to bring her and leave her again! After I drop her I just watch the clock until it's time to go and get her. :(
At least this time it won't be as long as the 8 hour test.
Trixie is eating, drinking and peeing more than ever! It scares me that nothing has changed after 12 days on the Trilostane and it actually seems a little worse than it was. I guess I won't get any answers until Wednesday.
I'm just thankful that Trixie will use puppy pads! If she didn't I don't know what this place would look like! She went so many times today-outside and inside. Last count she had 35 oz of water..and she just came in here with a wet beard! :( We're probably up to 37oz by now...the most ever since I started keeping track. :confused:
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

Hoping Trixie's tests go well tomorrow and with good results!!

[molly muffin]

Goodness! Okay, we'll we are all going to want to know Trixie's results are. Seems strange that it would go up, but you know, the thing is that Every single dog is different. We've seen some pretty big dogs on a miniscule dosages, and some small dogs on large dosages. It just depends on how sensitive a dog is to the medication. So, don't panic or anything. This is for now, all part of figuring out what is going on and what works for Trixie.

It's only an hour between them giving her the medicine and then taking the first draw to the second draw. You could stay with her maybe during that time? take her for a walk even and then go back for the second draw? Not sure how your vet is about that, but it is what some people have done. Especially those who have really nervous furbabies.

Hope your mom is doing okay.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Okay Barbara,
First take a breath and let it out slowly! Next take another breath and let that one out slowly! :p. Okay now.

Try not to get too far ahead of yourself. Let's wait for Trixie's numbers and go from there. Do you need to get back home to stay with your mom during the testing? If not, maybe you can stay with Trixie. For Buddy, we needed to wait an hour before the second draw. They brought him out to sit with me during that period to help keep him calmer. After his second draw, I was able to take him home. The actual testing took only a little over an hour. I didn't have to leave him and it was better for him and me.:)

Please let us know how it goes tomorrow. I'll be thinking of you.

Hugs to you and Trixie,

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Thanks everyone. I will definitely post the results as soon as they are in-like I said probably on Wednesday. You all will have to help me with what the numbers mean. The long test ended up with a 6.2.
The vet's office likes me to drop her. Last time I stayed away...they told me she was fine and was not nervous-( but who really knows if that's true?) but I do think she senses my nerves and perhaps it is better to just drop her and hope the time goes by quickly for me until I can pick her up. Oh and I almost forgot..I do have to get back here for my mother! Kathy you reminded me of that.
ugh. I was hoping so much that I would see a little improvement by this week! :mad:
Oh well...we move forward. Can't wait for test results and hopefully some help for Trixie. Going to try some deep breathing and hope I don't wake up at 3am in a panic about this!
Oh..thanks for asking...my mom is doing okay. We are on day 11 of her stay...she's here until next Monday. I just have to remain patient...her short term memory is basically shot so it's trying at times. We are hanging in there--she'll be 93 in 2 weeks! My husband is a huge help with both my mother and Trixie! Thank goodness!! :)

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,

It is now 12:30,lunch time here. That would make it 3:30 you time. Trixie's ACTH test should be completed by now. I hope all went well:)
It is hard to wait for the results, I know! :rolleyes: Let us know how you are doing.

Thinking of you and Trixie,

Kathy and Buddy:)

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy and thanks for thinking of us!! It was nice and quick today! We got there a little before 2pm and they called at 3:30 to say I could come for her. I was there in less than 5 minutes and she was so happy to get out of there.
Trixie was funny...of course the last time she was at the vet it was the 8 hour, tummy shaving, ultrasound marathon day! So when we crossed on to the vets street she pulled way to the curb trying to avoid the door. I mentioned that there were treats inside and she hung a quick left towards the entrance. Once she was inside and had the treat she turned around and headed back to the door...like-"ok got the treat now let's get out of here!".
So...I am anxious to talk to the vet tomorrow and see what's next. I assume she will need a higher dose. We have had no change what-so- ever...and like I said it seems worse these last 3 days. I hate to see this constant drinking/peeing thing and it can't be good for her. Right now she's resting and hasn't been to the water bowl for awhile now, thank goodness.
I hope there is no delay with the results. After this week my vet is away for two weeks. :eek: If there's going to be a new dose I want to begin asap before things get any worse.
Definitely feeling burnt out from worry about Trixie and eldercare! I know I'll feel so much better if Trixie starts to make some progress.
Keeping my fingers crossed, Barbara

[molly muffin]

Ahh, Trixie, she is a smart one. Get it and get out indeed. :)
I think if there is a dose increase it will all depend on the numbers. If they are Very high then yes, it could be that they would go for a dose increase right now. If they have come down quite a bit then it's possible that they would wait to see if there is any further cortisol drop within the first 30 days. As we know in some dogs cortisol will continue to drop even past the 30 day mark. Of course others seem to be stubborn and need the higher dosage, so the numbers are important and why we stress them so much on here.
You're doing great though. I know the worry is exhausting and on top of taking care of your mom, I'm sure that it's added to your over all stress levels right now.
Things will even out, this does get better. The first part of finding that perfect dosage for them can be the hardest to get through, but once you are there, it is a matter of just keeping an eye out for any further tweaking being needed.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thank you Sharlene,
I will post the numbers as soon as I get them. I guess I thought there might be an increase because things have just gotten so much worse with Trixie. I am so worried by the constant drinking. It was going along at about 28 oz a day consistently and then the last 4-5 days it kept increasing and today almost 45oz of water!
I will say she does not seem too distressed...still barking at our neighbors dog, eager to go out and walking briskly but the water intake and eliminating is kind of scary. Still big appetite too...a bit of panting but that hasn't been bad all along.
Is it possible that things would still start to turn around after 12 days with no change in symptoms? I guess you're right..the numbers must be seen.
I will have to be patient, I know...just one more day to see what's up.
Thank you for your understanding! :o
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)

It is the waiting and uncertainty that is always the hardest for me!:confused: Buddy's numbers were higher than they should be at his first ACTH test. His dosage was not changed because his clinical signs had vastly improved. There is more involved than just reading numbers. The numbers can continue to drop for 30 days or more, I was told.

Trixie is active and seems to feel well.:) She has been behaving normally, barking, etc. Try to count your blessings tonight and be thankful that Trixie's Cushings was found early. They will find a dosage that works for her.

Try to get some rest tonight and take care of yourself. Thankfully your husband is able to help out with your mom and Trixie.:o

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Boriss McCall]

Hi,
Just checking to see how it is going. Hopefully you will get numbers soon. Finding the right dose was the hardest part for us. well I take that back the initial shock of finding out Boriss had cushings was the hardest. Then all the wonderful people here made me okay with that news & move on to figuring out how to move forward.
but, finding the right dose took us a little while. Now it seems like smooth sailing.. well for the most part.. Knock on wood!!

[Trixie]

Ok...just had a call from our vet. Unexpected as it's usually late in the day that he checks in, but I'm more than happy to get the results.
He said the number was 7.2. He said this lab shows that's in normal range for a dog on Trilostane. BUT- he says he is a little more old school than this lab, so he would like to increase from 6mg 2x a day to 7mg 2 x day, especially in light of all the drinking. He would like to see her at 5 or under..(I think that's what he said)
Originally he was going to prescribe her first dose at 7mg (2x) but then decided to be conservative and order 6mg (2x) for her. So ok...I am happy with the small increment and I like his conservative approach though I wish I didn't have to spend the money on the new dose (so expensive!)...I suppose it's not bad to have the 6mg in case she needs to go lower at some point.
Trixie drank so much yesterday..today has been very different so far. I also took note of when you all mentioned that dry kibble could add to her thirst. She doesn't eat dry on her plate but I have been using it when she begs during our meals and since she is soooo hungry of late she has really been begging like crazy and probably getting quite a bit more kibble than she normally would. Today I did not give her any kibble and so far she has consumed less water than yesterday. So...could be less kibble and could also be that the Trilostane is starting to make a difference now? Not sure but if she drinks less today I will be so happy! Of course we still have the rest of the day and evening ahead but I am hoping for the best. ;)
So far today is a much better day! I am hoping this little increase in dosage will do the trick while still avoiding the side effects which luckily we have not had.
What does everyone think!?
It's a sunny, beautiful spring day here today...I just took Trixie for a quick walk and things feel a lot better compared to yesterday!
Thank you all once again for listening, understanding and helping me more than you know!!
:p: Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Barbara,

Since your vet is increasing the Trilostane in 1 mg segments, I am wondering if you could get the Trilostane compounded into 1 mg capsules, what do you think?

According to Dechra, the makers of Vetoryl, the therapeutic range for a dog being treated with Trilostane is 1.5 ug/dl - 5.4 ug/dl, now they do say if all symptoms of Cushing's are controlled then a post of 9.1 ug/dl is fine.

Here's a handy link to our Helpful Resource Thread where the information from Dechra's product insert is found: Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185)

You are doing a fantastic job!!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,

I'd be throwing a party if Buddy had a 7.2 post draw on his ACTH test!!!:D. His number was over 15! I will be the first to admit that I don't know much about the use of Trilostane, but if it were me, I'd use up my 6 mg. capsules first, then change to the 7mg. Yes, Trilostane is EXPENSIVE!!! Trixie is doing so well! Her numbers are fantastic! That's just what I'd do!:D.

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,
Kathy has a good point. How many of the 6mg do you have left? Or what would it cost to get some 1mg and then you could add it to the 6mg as Lori suggested. Cortisol can continue to come down, and it does sound like Trixie is on her way at least. Once you hit around 5ug then she will probably be pretty much golden.
You're doing great though! Patience grasshopper. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Boriss McCall]

Kathy I kind of agree with you. I had to do a med increase once with meds still left over meds. I finished out the old & started the new increase after that. Especially with such a tiny increase. but, i know that you are anxious to see Trixie all balanced out. Hopefully that added mg will do the trick. ;)
but, I will say that Boriss's numbers dropped from the first test to the next without changing his dose.
but, since it is such a small increase it probably is not that scary to up it now.

[Trixie]

wow Kathy really?? I had no idea how to gauge the number...don't know what's good or what's not???
It is true that Trixie presents with pretty much only the drinking, peeing eating, a little bit of panting and of course the high liver level. The back legs and fur loss have not been obvious in any way.
As I've mentioned I notice that the symptoms she does show have gotten worse and not better which is why I felt so upset the last few days. I'll definitely take this all as good then...I just didn't know.
She is much more mellow today and hasn't peed on the pads at all today. Yesterday she was outside a lot and still went through a bunch of pads. Progress maybe!!?? I hope so! I think I would rather start the new dose see if the drinking improves and then if needed drop back down to the 6mg?? Thoughts?? Thank you for giving me some perspective on where we are. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Barbara, some dogs on the day of the ACTH test will show an increase in symptoms, which usually does go away once their cortisol levels back out. So, while that doesn't account for the other days of increased water intake, it would for yesterday.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,

I think you need to do whatever you're comfortable with.:). Personally I would be thrilled with that number or anything close to it!!:D. You know Trixie better than anyone. What does your gut instinct tell you to do?

It's time to take a breath or two! Trixie's results were great today!:D
Enjoy the moment!!:D

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Thank you Kathy I will take your advice and be happy about our results today! ;)
Sharlene--I was wondering about just that! I figured if they were injecting her for the test would she have even more cortisol running in her system. Yesterday afternoon and evening was by the worst drinking, peeing, eating day that we have had so perhaps I can attribute that to the test.
I'm still a little worried about all the drinking and peeing. I asked the vet about this and he did mention the problem about urine concentration. The good news on that is Trixie does sleep thru the night w/o getting up to drink or pee, so in the morning when she goes out I do notice her urine does have color, though as the day goes on it is more dilute.
The vet said we will watch it but it should improve as the Trilostane begins to control things better.
I hope so! :rolleyes:

[labblab]

I have only a moment to post right now, but if I'm calculating properly, Trixie has only been taking the trilostane for about ten days. If so, if she were mine, I'd definitely prefer to leave her on the 6 mg. twice daily for at least a couple more weeks. This is per Dechra's published Treatment and Monitoring guidelines. As others have already noted, cortisol levels frequently continue to drift downwards throughout the first few weeks of treatment. For that reason, if you look at the attached link, you'll see that Dechra generally recommends leaving the dose unchanged for the first month (unless there is fear that the cortisol has dropped too low). After the cortisol has had a chance to really stabilize on that initial dose, you'll have a much better idea as to how great a dosing change will really be optimal. Now, it is true that Dechra does mention the possibility of going ahead with an incremental increase in the event there is no sympton resolution at all. But given the expense associated with changing Trixie's dose by such a tiny amount at this early stage, I'm thinking you might want to try to hold off for a couple more weeks or else you may run the risk of needing to make yet another dosing change at that point.

Given Dechra's recommendations, I'd revisit this dosing increase with your vet and ask if you can leave things alone until the 30-day testing date. Here's that link:

http://www.dechra-us.com/files//dechraUSA/downloads/Client%20Literature/47902_VETORYL_10mg_Treatment_and_Monitoring_Brochu re_Update_3_2_ps.pdf

Marianne

[Simba's Mom]

Hi Barbara, when Simba gets tested he is like a wild man when he gets home, he's hot and thirsty and just not himself, but after he sleeps for awhile he's much better...and the day after too, much better...take care! Glad to hear the test is done!!

[Trixie]

Thanks everyone for the insight and advice. I suppose I don't fully understand how the Trilostane works. I keep seeing it's out of the system in 8-12 hours so I don't get how it has cumulative effects.
In my mind I figured it goes in and combats the high cortisol until the next dose 12 hours later. But really it will continue to lower the cortisol levels more and more each day going forward even though the dose stays the same? I guess the cortisol level is constantly changing too and that's part of the problem? Sorry if that all sounds stupid but even though I read up I still don't really get it.
I figured since her drinking, eating etc was unchanged that a higher dose would be needed to control these symptoms but now from what you all say- maybe not? Today is day 12 and no change in the symptoms but this dose could stay the same at 6mg 2x and in another few days, or a week, those symptoms may finally begin to abate? Do I have that right?
As I said the vet originally was going to prescribe the 7mg 2x a day but decided on the 6mg. Trixie weighs about 15 pounds...(that's now after way more eating than before, she was usually about 13 pounds) and she's getting 12mg a day now between the 2 doses. If I increase to the 14mg I am still a little under the 1mg per pound dosage.
I think perhaps I might see a decrease in the drinking with the slightly increased dose, but do you all think I should give the 6mg a few more days? Do you think the 7mg (2x) would increase the chance of side effects...I know this is a powerful drug but I thought 1mg on each pill would not be a huge change. A total of 14mg vs the 12mg she gets now. I don't want her to start having kidney trouble with all this water going through her each day. She's just been drinking so much and I want to see it decrease at least a little, but I surely don't want any dangerous drop in levels either. Do you think I'm risking side effects even with this slight increase-or is not really slight?
So wow...guess I have a lot of questions in this post! :confused:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,

Marianne really knows her stuff!;) She saved me/Buddy from a potentially dangerous situation. I can't answer your questions, because I don't know enough. I would definitely trust in Marianne's advice.;)
Her advice was to check with your doctor to see if waiting a few weeks and continuing with 6mg. would be okay, for at least the next couple of weeks. Yes, Cortisol levels can continue to drop for 30 days or more. I did read that much. Buddy's post draw level was over 15. It was advised even then to not make any changes for 30 days, since his clinical signs had improved. I don't think a 1mg. dosage increase is going to make much of a difference, but I'm not a doctor. I'm not sure increasing by 1mg. is worth the expense. either.

You are doing a great job. I am sure you'll make the right choice!:)

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Just to clarify..the 7mg pills are already in the works, can't change that order now. They called from the Pet Pharmacy right after my call from the vet and me being not so very smart just gave the ok. I really didn't think it through until a few hours later.
I should have been a bit more savvy and this was obviously before hearing everyone's advice. So-- that ship has sailed.
The bigger issue is what to do about them now? I guess that I expected to see a change in Trixie's symptoms a too soon then? It could take more than 12 days to see a even a little decrease in water inatke? There really has been no change in her symptoms at all over these 12 days and honestly the drinking/peeing/eating has been worse over the last week than before we diagnosed. :confused:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

How many 6mg. pills do you have left? You could use those up first?;)

Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[labblab]

Hi again Barbara,

Since you've already got the 7 mg. on order, I'm guessing you're "OK" to go ahead and start giving them since it is really such a small increase. One of my main goals was to save you the effort and expense of making this change this early. But also just to warn you about the tendency towards additional lowering of cortisol during the early weeks of treatment. But I know you'll be watching Trixie like a hawk, and who knows, maybe this really will be the perfect dose for her!

Marianne

[Trixie]

I know Marianne...I really should have been a little more thoughtful about the new prescription. I suppose it was my eagerness to see a change in Trixie and thinking she needed the increase in dosing so I just went with it, but maybe I expected too much too soon?
I guess my other question is how long can Trixie keep up with all the drinking before that in itself starts to create an issue? That's what is worrying me. The vet said he should have probably gone with the 7mg to begin with and hearing she had no change in symptoms felt we could go up one. She has not had any side effects at all with 6mg. No lethargy, no soft poops, nothing at all. I hope 7mg doesn't change that but I would hope after some time that I will see a change in the symptoms she does have. Also right now we don't know where the liver levels are though she does remain on Denamarin.
I can certainly wait some more days before starting with the 7mg. Maybe I will finish out the month of April and start the new dose May 1st.
This all can really play on your nerves can't it!? :eek:
Thanks everybody for listening..I know I've been repetitive in my posts!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)

So how is Trixie doing? Any change in symptoms? When are you starting her new Trilostane dosage? How are you holding up taking care of your mom? Have you been able to get any rest at all?
Thinking of you,

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
I was just sitting here wondering what to do. You're sweet to think of me and yes, I have gotten some rest. A little burnt out from the elder care but my mother's caregiver will be back on Monday. She's been with me 18 days now. She has Parkinson's and I'm not a nurse, I did my best and we both got through it okay..a couple more days to go.
So as far as Trixie goes. She is still pretty much herself but there is no change in symptoms. Still drinking a lot...close to 40oz of water a day- 5 cups! Seems like so much!! I measure it all day by the hour and it has not decreased at all and has really gotten worse as 2 weeks ago she was drinking about 28oz a day. Still huge appetite, mostly lying on the cold floor and a little panting here and there. So--what should I do? Tomorrow is 2 weeks on 6mg 2x a day. Should I have seen a little bit of a change by now? I am a little afraid to start the 7mg and yet I would like to see her drinking and peeing decrease a little at least. So what does everyone think? Am I taking too much of a chance going up to 7mg after 2 weeks? I'm still below the dose of 1mg per pound...she would be getting a total 14mg a day and she weighs about 15 now, but am I rushing it? ugh. Wish she had at least a small change in drinking!! :(

Barbara

[molly muffin]

I don't think it is a huge increase Barbara and the drinking is worrying you quite a bit. I too wonder why that hasn't gone down much yet, but I'm not known for my patience so probably not the best to comment on that. :)
Awww, that's tough trying to do the nursing thing for that long. Even when you love them tons and tons, it's just not the easiest thing to do. Glad you are both getting through it okay though. :)
You know what they say, "end on a high note". So do something special with your mom this weekend and then welcome the caregiver back with a big smile and a welcome hug. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
7.2 is a great number on the post draw! It is only been 2 weeks since Trixie started the 6 mg twice per day. As far as knowledge on this, I am still in the shallow end, but I am learning. Acth numbers (Cortisol levels) can continue to drop for 30 days or more following the initial dosage. Dropping too far is dangerous! I know that you're really concerned about all the water drinking and want to see a change quickly. If it were me, I would want to wait a few more weeks at least before increasing the dosage. At least, you are not increasing by much and you do monitor Trixie carefully.

Could so much water drinking be caused by another issue?
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

I'm pretty sure her drinking and eating are Cushing's symptoms. We did a urine test 2 weeks ago and there was no infection at that point. Can't think of any other reason. Her blood work only showed the high liver level and high cholesterol which are both Cushings things, the rest was within normal range.
I guess what I really want to know is how long does it take to notice a change..even a small one in the drinking and eating? From reading old posts it seems most using Trilostane had seen some small changes by this time.
Trixie's number is good like you said, 7.2 but yet symptoms persist and have gotten worse so I don't know. What about starting by giving a 7mg tab in the morning and a 6mg at night? Taking it up only 1mg for the entire day? Is that something you can do? Or should it remain an even dose both times? I could ask the vet but his advice was to move up to the 7mg tabs 2x. He felt we were still on the low end.
Guess I'm just mixed up- certainly don't want a sudden drop but I also don't want the drinking/peeing to start a new problem on it's own and if I understand correctly this can happen and involve the kidneys.
So yes- she is doing well on this dose-no side effects from the med but also no results--at least not yet. Don't know how much longer I can watch her drink this much, it really worries me.
Barbara

[Trixie]

Haha Sharlene...I am going to welcome back our caregiver with a blast of confetti and a marching band!! :D Then the big hugs! She is the best and we couldn't get on without her but she needed and deserved this break. We love her like one of the family and a big plus- she is very fond of Trixie!!
It all went okay but it's hard to see my mother the way she is now...almost 93 and unable to do any of things that she loved doing her whole life and her mind is beginning to go so it's a challenge at times. I'm sure I am not alone...many, many people going through this or have gone through the same thing. Just glad we got through this stay without any major catastrophes! Can't do too much with her but we will try and get her out in the wheelchair for a walk tomorrow...the weather is amazing and the trees on our block are bursting with blooms.
I think I have to try the new dose. I don't want Trixie to develop other issues from drinking. I'm scared but I do feel we are still on the low end of the scale. I don't know when I'll get the nerve to start though! Maybe after another day or so of this drinking marathon will do it. I'll let everyone know. :confused:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
I love Trixie's new avatar!:) Spring has Sprung!!!!:D
I'm glad that Trixie's new dosage is working out well so far.:) I have no doubt that you will be keeping a close eye on her.

Well, your mom heads home tomorrow. You did it! You lasted for the duration! You will later be glad that you had that concentrated time with her. Now, you can do something special for yourself!;)
Take care and get some rest,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

Awww, isn't Trixie just so cute in her garden with the flowers.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

awww thanks guys! I have a hard time getting her to sit still when we are outside but I quick snapped and got this photo a couple weeks ago before she went back to sniffing around.
Yes...we made it through the 2 weeks here..my mother will go home tomorrow. It's hard to see her the way she is now...not always herself and not always with it, but hey, she is almost 93. My brother and I try to do what's best for her but it's often quite a challenge.
So... Trixie is now on the 7mg 2x a day. Today is day 2. I just got crazy watching the water intake and yesterday I bit the bullet and started the higher dose. She seems totally fine so far, no change.
Went on 2 long walks with my husband and she explored part of the park where she walked up and down a lot of stone steps and he said she was fine the whole time. She seems to have her energy intact through all of this. Right now she is back to the cold floor nap and looking quite tired after her long day! I do wish I knew how her liver was doing? I guess we will have to do another blood test before I get that answer. She is still on Denamarin.
She had water at the doggie water fountain in the park this morning a couple times so it's hard for me to measure her drinking today. It seems like less at home but the park water probably makes up the difference. We'll see how the rest of the day goes.

I have a question about dropping cortisol levels. Before we would get to a situation where she had signs of going too low would I first notice a decrease of drinking and peeing?
OR can the level just kind of drop too low quickly before any abating of the noticeable symptoms?
I'm watching her no matter what but just wondered if you can go below a good level really fast. Once she starts to decrease the water how likely is it that the current dose will keep her stable? Our next test will be 30 days from now, I guess over those 4 weeks I watch her and see?
Here I go again with lots of ????? :rolleyes:
Thanks, Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Almost everyone on this forum knows more than I do regarding the use of Trilostane. I do know that cortisol levels can drop quickly without abating any symptoms. Symptoms such as vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, unusual weakness or inability to stand are all indications that the cortisol level has dropped to low. If in doubt, don't give any more Trilostane and go to the vet an get an ACTH test done ASAP. Giving Trilostane when already low, is extremely dangerous and can cause a crash. Well maybe, I have learned something?;)

Angel's please feel free to add to this or correct any misinformation. :D There is still so much that I don't know!:confused:

I hope this helps until our experts have the chance to respond.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

I think Barbara is just trying to be proactive of what to watch out for. She said that Trixie is acting fine, with no changes today.

Usually when we see these sudden crashes, it is because of a major overdose of trilostane. I don't think that is what you would see with Trixie. She is probably going to be one of those dogs that is better controlled at a Post 5 or 4 range.

You'll notice that Trixie's water intake should become more normal and she won't be scarfing for her food all the time. If you notice that her stools start to become softer, then you'll want to keep an eye on her, or if her water intake decreases by an enormous amount below what is recommend for a dog her size, then you will want to go ahead and have an ACTH done.

I don't think on this dosage that you'll see a bad crash, but saying that you always have to be aware of what they are doing and any possible symptoms. No more increases though until this period is over and ACTH has been done and you know where her cortisol is at. Remember, number can continue to decrease even past the 30 day mark. It might just take a bit longer for Trixie's to come down to an acceptable range without symptoms.

Hang in there, you're doing great.
hugs,
Sharlene

[Trixie]

Thank you both..yes, I just want my facts straight as we move forward on our slightly increased dose. The reminders of what to watch for are always helpful. :D
As of now Trixie has no adverse reactions. I am glad for the low and slow approach. Symptoms remain the same, but hoping for the best!! I will be leaving Trixie for just a few hours tomorrow to take my mother back to her house.
I realized since Trixie's diagnosis she has not been left alone. Not because we were afraid but because it came at the same time as my mother staying here, and so we haven't gone anywhere! I think Trixie might also have an hour alone at suppertime too so my husband and I get out for a quick dinner out, we've been in for over two weeks!! :eek:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Yes, Absolutely get out and have a wonderful dinner. You deserve it!:)
Order something sinfully delicious!:D I am glad that Trixie seems to be adjusting to her new dosage well.

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[SoggyDoggy]

Hi Barbara,

I've just had a quick read over the last few pages of your thread and I don't think you need to be worrying about a crash just yet. If Trixie has been on 6mg for a while and her last ACTH was 7.2, she has a way to go yet before being in any danger. An increase from 6 to 7mg bd is unlikely to cause a sudden drop of her cortisol. I am sure you would notice a progressive slowing of thirst and hunger before there was any danger of that happening. Also, when you do notice the drop in thirst and hunger, it may be gradual to the point where you just think one day, "Hey, you haven't drunk as much today!" or "Wow Trixie, you didn't finish your dinner!" That was what happened with my boy (although his was a pretty rapid change as he was massively overdosed to start with - and we avoided a crash by the skin of our teeth).

At this point, if you are still seeing noticeable symptoms, I don't think you need to worry with such a small increase in dose. It may end up being the perfect dose for Trixie, in which case it may take a little longer to even out, but as I said, it would be pretty unlikely for a massive change to happen. And it won't be sudden, you will notice that she is "off" first. Even when my boy was overdosed, I did notice he was off for a couple of days before I withheld meds and took him to the vet. Of course every dog responds differently, but if you are super vigilant, you should spot it first. Just remember, when in doubt, don't give the pill.

[Trixie]

Thank you Naomi for the good advice. We are still waiting for even a slight change in drinking and eating...especially the drinking! There hasn't been any decrease at all but I will remain patient and just keep watching and measuring her water. Meanwhile I will say that Trixie mostly seems okay. She does seem to breathe rather quickly lately...even while she's sleeping which she never did before. Kind of short shallow breaths, that's been going on for awhile now.
So hard not to be nervous about every little thing.
Just now she was staring at me and my husband here in the living room. So he took her out for a quick walk and when she came back in she stared at us again...ok so we gave her a biscuit and -more staring! We start getting freaked out that something was really wrong and then boom she attacks the nearest toy. She wanted to play and that was what all the staring was about. :rolleyes: I guess she was thinking " Can't you tell I want to play? What is wrong with you guys!?"
Meanwhile no problem with the increase in the dose to 7mg 2x a day. Hope this dose begins to work on her symptoms soon!!
Barbara

[Trixie]

ok...I definitely need some HELP! Trixie just threw up. I wasn't in here with her when it happened but when I came in the room she was just eating it back up. So didn't see if it was a lot or a little or what it looked like.
She had her 7mg dose almost 3 hours prior. She spent 90 minutes outside earlier, walked to the park, in the park and back home again. I watched her closely to make sure she was up to the regular long walk and seemed totally fine and chipper. Ran off the leash and acted perfectly normal-this was all before her morning dose. She has had no trouble walking at all or jumping up on the couch. Came home drank a lot and ate as usual, (her morning dose was in her food), and then she settled in for a nap. Now after vomiting she seems fine. She did have quite a bit to eat between getting up this morning and getting sick,(treats and breakfast) so it could be just over eating. An acquaintance in the park did give her a treat or two and perhaps it was something that didn't agree with her tummy? I didn't see what it was and I probably should have asked.
She just now did a puddle on the puppy pad and came looking for a treat--she still remembers getting a treat for doing that when she was a puppy. So she still wants to eat. I gave her a half of a biscuit and she gobbled it up and now she's back to a nap on the cool floor.
So now what?? :( Watch the rest of today and if she is fine and does not vomit or seem sick then give her the 10pm dose?
I notice that the urine on the pad had a bit more color than lately...mostly clear urine the last few weeks. That would be a good sign wouldn't it be?
I guess I should continue to monitor carefully the rest of the day but of course now I'm so worried! :eek::eek:
Barbara

[addy]

If she seems fine and is asking for food, walking fine, no loose stools, no other strange behavior it is probably just something not agreeing with her tummy (the treat in the park, perhaps).

See how she is, reevaluate before the evening dose. If you have any doubt, dont give it. I usually will take Zoe outside and see how she acts. If she wants to walk down the drive way, sniffs her usual spots and is interested in things, poos and pees are good, then I am reasurred.

((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
I am at work, so I only have a few minutes. I will add more when I get home. I know you are worried. :( I'm thinking a couple of things.....could she have eaten grass while you we're out. That can make them vomit. The treat in the park, you don't know what it was. Maybe that didn't agree with her? I would hold off on the Trilo until you hear from the experts. She still has an appetite, that is good. You might want to call and check with your vet just to put your mind at ease? I'm sure others will be pooping in soon to help. Stay tuned!

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Budsters Mom]

TYPO ON MY LAST MESSAGE....."POOPING IN SOON TO HELP!:D:D
LOL
Kathy:D

[Trixie]

Thanks Addy and Kathy for the quick replies. I really appreciate it!!
:) Kathy...I saw that typo and it gave me a chuckle...but "pooping" is always a topic with our dogs isn't it!!??
OK...so 2 hours post throwing up and so far nothing to report. We just went out for a walk and Trixie tried to pull me to the pet supply shop across the street--(free treats there). She did a little poop and nothing runny or too soft though it was a minimal. (sorry for the graphic report on that). She expected her usual treat when we came in the door and she just ate it up. She is napping again but this usual for her especially after a lot of exercise this morning.
Now she is barking at the neighbors dog who is coming in from his walk. So basically it seems nothing bad is going on. Luckily we have until 10pm to observe as that is when her next dose would be.
I will keep watching. If all stays as is and there's no vomiting or other bad stuff then she should have her usual dose at 10-correct? Just wanted to add that I don't know at this point what her liver levels are like. It seems to me in the evening she is more bloated than during the day. I would still say that she is for the most part normal. I notice her breathing to be faster and she still wants to lay on the floor most of the time. So those are some things I notice but she seems okay to me. We'll see how the rest of the day/evening go.
thanks,Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

:) Kathy...I saw that typo and it gave me a chuckle...but "pooping" is always a topic with our dogs isn't it!!??
OK...so 2 hours post throwing up and so far nothing to report. We just went out for a walk and Trixie tried to pull me to the pet supply shop across the street--(free treats there). She did a little poop and nothing runny or too soft though it was a minimal. (sorry for the graphic report on that). If all stays as is and there's no vomiting or other bad stuff then she should have her usual dose at 10-correct?

Hi Barbara,

Lori pooping in!! :D As far as the poop report, we do love details so no apology needed. ;)

I believe as long as she is acting fine with no vomiting, diarrhea, and she is eating normally then it would be fine to continue her Trilostane dose this evening.

Sending hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, remember to breath!

Kathy is pooping in!!! ROFLMAO!!! Gawd, that one gave me a huge giggle and a half. It just seems to appropriate for this board!! hahahah

I'm with the others. If Trixie is acting fine, then I'd go ahead. Molly has been known to not have the best reactions to treats she is given outside sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. And we all know beef liver treats will have her clearing a room faster than any deodorizer could possibly keep up with.

Hang in there, you really are doing awesome at keeping an eye on her. So far everything sounds good and a bit of color is nice to have in the urine.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thanks Lori and Sharlene,
It's good to know that I have all of you for reinforcements when things "poop" up! Had to keep the fun going.. heehee. :D So Molly and beef liver treats not a good match. :o
Yes- could have been the unknown treat she was given and/or she did probably have just too much food this morning between both treats and breakfast.
It looks like everything is under control this evening. The rest of Trixie's day has been uneventful. No other vomiting except the one instance this morning. She has had some treats and also her supper and no problems. Her demeanor is normal and her appetite still very much in tact. So it seems all is well and I will give her the 10pm pill.
Whew. I'm not usually such a nervous nellie, guess I'm still getting used to this new reality. Funny thing is it drives us crazy when Trixie barks at the dog next door..(they have a territory issue with our shared foyer) but when she does it now my husband and I look at each other and say-well we know she feels well enough to keep up the foyer fight! Hopefully we will stay uneventful here!!
Thanks again, Barbara

[molly muffin]

err hmmm, yes beef liver treats require extra walkies time outside, to clear out the system before going back to the house. I have a neighbor who always seems to have them and just Has to give Molly one when we meet up with her and her dog. It's a big one too, I've tried to suggest she just break off a piece, but no go, she has to spoil our molly. (don't know why, not like she isn't spoiled enough already) LOL
I'm so glad that Trixie is being herself. Yep, the foyer fight is a good sign. When she gives that one up, then you can have a moment of worry.
This is the new reality isn't it. We watch to see what is going to happen when. It can become quite exhausting, so take those moments away to have dinner out, or just do things that do not make you wonder/watch for cushings items. It can help to keep you sane.

Have a good evening!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Kathy pooping in! He he he!
It looks like the 10 PM trilo time is a go!:) I'm glad that Trixie is now doing well.:). It feels like a countdown for the space shuttle! All systems go! Counting 1 hour, 3 minutes until pill time!:D

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[SoggyDoggy]

Yeah all safe. If she has that much attitude going on to continue the foyer fights, she is definitely feeling fine. Isn't it amazing how things that used to annoy us now become reassuring signs that we live to see? It used to drive me nuts that Fraser would follow me everywhere from room to room, right on my heels (even to the bathroom :eek:) but now I love it. Ahh, the kids and their quirks. :D

[Trixie]

Yes Naomi-all the usual behavior which was once annoying is now that reassuring sign that things are okay! Even very loud barking which usually makes me cringe! :p
Kathy, the 10pm dose taken and now 90 minutes later all is well. Trixie's been for the night time walk with my husband and as he reported "all poops were good". :rolleyes:
Still waiting for the water intake to subside, but I'll be patient. I cannot believe how much she drinks! :eek:
Sharlene, you're right that a distraction from being on watch is needed..I can see that this can be all consuming.
Well, I got thru today's scare with the help of everyone here.
Thank you all for all the great support!
:D Barbara

[Mel-Tia]

Hi Barbara

How are you and Miss Trixie today? All well?

Big hug

Mel
Xxxx

[Trixie]

Hi Mel,
We are doing just fine today. Trixie walked about 2 miles and had a great time in the park. Currently she is sacked out! For the first time in awhile she is actually curled up in her bed...these days she is usually on the cold floor.
So all in all a good day! No tummy issues and no side effects from her pill. Still drinking lots of water!! Hope your day was a good one too! :D
Barbara

[Mel-Tia]

That warms my heart when I read posts like that

Normal uneventful days are what I wish for every post

Hope it's the same today

Mel
Xxxx

[molly muffin]

Glad to hear that Trixie is doing so well. I'd need a nap after 2 miles too!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

Hi
Making the "rounds" to thank each and everyone of you for all your kindness.Don't know what I would have done without you!Just started being able to venture out and read some threads and look forward to getting to know your babies as well as you got to know my Fella.Thanks so much!
Love,
Patty

[molly muffin]

Hows Trixie doing? I saw a little mini snaz today, just a beebopping up the street with his owner hurrying to keep up. I immediately thought of Trixie.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene and everyone,
Yesterday was Trixie's birthday-she turned 9. She had a great day walking and bumped into her 3 favorite dog friends and got to hang with them! The best present for her!
A quick update. We think that we are starting to notice a subtle decrease in a couple symptoms. A little less drinking-just by a few ounces but it's less !! and in turn- a little less peeing and no panting the last couple of days. Little things but I'll take them!!
Also a few times the last 2 days Trixie curled up in her bed for a little while. She has been only lying on the floor-where it's cooler and also she seems more comfortable stretched out, maybe because of the belly/liver bloating, but for a little bit she was curled up in her donut bed where she hasn't been lately. At night she's in our bed and she sleeps through but had been moving around a lot, trying to get comfortable, but the last two nights she was so much more restful.
In general she just seems more comfortable. Nothing more dramatic than that but it's the first positive changes I have seen. She still has a major appetite but she's kind of always been that way.
It's 3 weeks on Trilostane today..1st two weeks 6mg 2x day, and the last week on the 7mg 2x. Our next test will be at the end of the month.
She's had a ton of exercise all week and I believe this also helps her feel really good...tired at the end of the day but a good tired if you know what I mean.
I'm really thankful that she's been doing so well and crossing my fingers that things continue to improve. Still watching her like a hawk though! Next weekend my daughter will be staying here with her while we go to the other daughter's graduation. Trying not to start worrying about that again...just hoping things stay uneventful especially while we're away.
Hope everyone is having a nice weekend. We are having the most perfect spring weather here in NY and Trixie has been making the most of it!!
Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

Happy 9th birthday, Trixie!!!

That is great that you are seeing improvements in Trixie's symptoms!!!

[molly muffin]

Toronto is having some beautiful weather too and Molly also loves it. :) (so do I) So glad that you are seeing some subtle differences in Trixie. Actually that is exactly what you want to see, subtle, gradual lessening symptoms, till a nice stability is reached. So, at this dose the cortisol might go down enough for symptoms to go away. Remember it can take a bit for the true range that a dose you are on to reach it's lowest level.
What I mean is today you see a decrease, by the end of the month, you might see a bit more lessening of symptoms. Stay at the same dose for another month and you will either have a stabilized dosage or you will notice a bit more of a decrease. (because cortisol Can continue to drop for 30 days on the same dose)
Not always and every dog is different.
All of that, just to say, good job Barbara! :) LOL

Happy Birthday Trixie!!!!!


hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Boriss McCall]

Happy Birthday Trixie

keep up the good work Trixie & mama!!

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Great news about Trixie! It is wonderful to read some happy news!:)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TRIXIE!!

[Tina]

Hi Barbara, and a very belated welcome to you and Trixie. I have been meaning to post to you since you joined the forum, and I've been following your thread. My Jasper is a Miniature Schnauzer also, and he just turned 9 on March 19th! So he and Trixie are the same age!! Her avatar pic is darling. :)

Jasper's main symptoms when we started this journey were drinking and peeing tons also, so I can relate. We still have issues with that, but it has improved a bit. It sounds like Trixie is showing some improvement in her symptoms now, yay!! You are doing a great job with her.


HAPPY 9TH BIRTHDAY TRIXIE!!!

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[Simba's Mom]

Happy Birthday Trixie!!!

[Trixie]

Thank you everyone for all the happy birthday wishes for Trixie!!! :p
We were out taking care of my mother yesterday and there is no internet there so I'm just getting caught up for today.
I can't believe how normal the day is going.
Trixie is not doing crazy drinking today--so far today she's had about 12oz and that is half of what she had a week ago at this same time, and for the first time in many weeks she has not used a puppy pad and it's 4:30!!
Yesterday at my mothers she did drink quite a bit and she did pee inside the house despite going out many times. I will chalk that up to not being at home and spending time outside which would make her thirsty. Also she decided not to use the puppy pad there either and went on the rug. Oh well...this is when it's good that my mother doesn't notice things like she used to!
So we'll see how the day ends up. But so far today is amazing...appetite, poops and energy level still just fine.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
:D Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
I am glad that Trixie is doing so well!:) I wouldn't worry about the accident at your moms. Sometimes they need to do that when they're away from home. Who knows, she could be marking her territory, claiming your mom's house as hers. She seems to be adjusting to her new dose well. That is awesome!;)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

So glad to hear that the symptoms are continuing to improve for Trixie. Yay!
I agree with Kathy, when not at home, all bets are off and it's a free for all as to what will happen. :)

keep up the great work!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Since Trixie didn't have to pee so many times yesterday and her drinking is decreased I thought today would be good to get her to the groomers. It was my lucky day..they weren't busy and told me to bring her right over. I asked if they could kind of be quick with her and they finished in a record 90 minutes!! Yay. I was so stressed dropping her off....silly, I know but I just felt bad after all the vet visits and she hates it so. She put the brakes on when we got to the block where the groomer is. Luckily I can pick her up and carry her because she wasn't budging when she knew where we were headed.
Anyway it all went by quickly and she looks beautiful! We actually like how she looks all furry but this time of year she gets hot and her fur picks up all the tree seeds and debris when she's in the park.
So-grooming is done! Nice and neat and we're both de-stressing now.:D
On to tomorrow--thunder storms forecasted! ugh poor Trixie...hope the storms don't freak her out too much.
:rolleyes: Barbara

[Boriss McCall]

Glad Trixie's new dose is working out so beautifully. I can picture her putting on the brakes for you on the way to the groomers. :D
I bet she is glad that is done & she can enjoy her summer cut.

[Fellasmom]

Hi just wanted to say hi and wish Trixie a belated birthday!Glad she is doing well.She looks just like the dog on the cover of the book I'm reading called Atticus.Great true story and beautiful dog just like your Trixie!

[doxiesrock912]

Happy Birthday Trixie :)

[Trish]

Awww I missed a birthday!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY MISS TRIXIE!! Hope it has a fab day for you all :) Love how she is so smart and knows the streets with the good things (pet stores) and the places to avoid (groomers) haha what a clever pup! Hope all continues to go well for you guys!! :)

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
So how are you and Miss Trixie? When is your daughter's graduation?is it this weekend or the next? I hope all is well. I hope your weekend is uneventfully calm.

Hugs to you and a belly rub for Trixie,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy & everyone,
Thank you all for the lovely birthday wishes!! Trixie had a great birthday and got some delicious treats and a new toy which she seems to love! She really does enjoy getting a new stuffed squeaky...even at age 9 she's still a playful girl.
We are leaving for the graduation early tomorrow morning, a 4 hour drive for us...not too bad. My younger daughter is here studying for her finals and will stay with Trixie and give her plenty of attention.
Of course I am worked up leaving her but I know everything will be ok.
I am concerned though that I feel something...a lump..kind of soft-like a cyst, and not too big on Trixie's side. It doesn't stick out, I can palpate it when I touch "into" her side, located kind of center side but more towards the tail end of center. I just noticed it this morning. When I touch it or press it Trixie has no reaction at all, so it doesn't hurt her. Her belly is still slightly bloated so maybe something-(an organ?) is getting a little squished from the enlarged liver...or maybe it's part of her liver??? I looked online where the nearest lymph node is on a dog and there doesn't seem to be one in this location from what I can tell on the chart. It's making me feel scared though.
We will go to the vet after the weekend and I will have them check this out. She has no gastric problems at all...poops good, appetite good, sleeping fine, and plenty of energy. Gosh hate to even write all this as I don't want to jinx anything!! I'm going to knock wood!!
Her drinking has decreased quite a bit...still more than usual, but nothing nearly as bad as the 45oz she was drinking 2 weeks ago. She's probably drinking about 3 cups a day-or so. No panting the last few days, and not as much lying on the floor. Things are definitely improved.
Maybe I could feel less worried if not for this soft bump I feel. :(
My daughter will have to leave on Sunday before we get back so Trixie will be here for 4 hours or so on her own but that should not be a problem..I'm sure she will nap until we get in.
Hope everyone has a nice weekend!! Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Buddy has a lump like you're describing on his stomach. I noticed it when his stomach was shaved for his ultrasound at the emergency hospital. The docs informed me that it was a fatty tumor, which is nothing to worry about. Hopefully Trixie's lump will be nothing to concerned about either. Buddy's lump is soft like you described and doesn't bother him at all when I poke at it. It has gotten much smaller since he's been much more active and feeling better. You can see all kinds of things after they get groomed, can't you? You are wise to check it out anyway, but try not to worry too much. Have a wonderful time at the graduation. You should be a very proud mama indeed!;)

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

Have a good trip and happy granduation. I'm sure that everything will be fine with Trixie. It does sound like one of those fatty tumors that Kathy mentioned, but I always like to get things checked out too.
That is great that Trixie is doing so well. Sounds like you might have found a good dose for her now.

Have a good weekend
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thanks so much Kathy, you have made me feel so much better!! :p Right before I read your post I read the description of a lipoma-fatty lump on a dog med/health site. It sounds just like what Trixie has. I also feel a little better because she just recently had the ultrasound and the vet said they looked at everything that day--that was only a three weeks ago.
I will get it looked at anyway..just to be sure. Yes...we just got groomed and now that all the extra fur is gone and she is sleek I could all of a sudden feel this when I hadn't before. Of course I was driving myself crazy all day trying to look at dog anatomy charts online and decipher where/what it might be.
Do dogs with Cushings tend to get lipomas?? I know they say Cush dogs have fat distribution issues. Or is it something that is more common with age? I have seen older looking dogs with these lumps on their sides..right where Trixie's is.
I hope that's all we're dealing with, it certainly doesn't bother her even if I press really hard. Like I said Trixie has really been doing great and I am so thankful for that!! :)
Barbara

[Trixie]

Thanks Sharlene...I really am breathing a sigh of relief. I didn't even want to tell my husband about feeling this lump on Trixie but then I did because I was so anxious-and then we were both feeling uneasy about it. I would have been crazy about this all weekend and now I honestly feel a thousand times better after Kathy's post and reading the exact description of what I feel and where it is--apparently a common location.
If only all this worrying could be good for something!! Like taking off weight perhaps!! :D
Hope you have a great weekend too!!
Barbara

p.s. just read online that schnauzers are prone to lipomas. I will still be getting it checked out but now at least I know what is probably is.

[molly muffin]

Yep, humans get them too. My husband had had a few removed, it seems to run in his family. They basically only seem to be irritating if they are in a bothersome spot.

Grooming has a habit of doing that. Molly has a couple bumps that I am keeping an eye on in case they turn out to be calcium deposits, but could be nothing. I hate that they are there though. LOL I didn't realize since she has had longer hair for a while now and you really have to stroke the hair the wrong way to even feel them. This is what happens when you get them all cleaned up again after the long winters. Start finding the lumps and bumps. pfffttt
You just go and have a really good time and no worrying. Not allowed, you are on worry free weekend as of right now!!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Both my girls had large lymphomas as they aged. I always had them looked at but I didn't have them removed until they had their annual teeth cleaning as they would be under anesthesia and they could kill two birds with one stone. I wouldn't lose sleep over it because yes schnauzers are prone to get them. but have it looked at the next time you are at the vets office. Kim

[SoggyDoggy]

Absolutely they do! Fraser had lumps around the lymph nodes in his neck/shoulders, had them aspirated, only fatty lipomas so not a worry. He does have issues with organs being displaced from a massive liver tumour (I can see and feel the outline of his gallbladder) but in his case it's not as easily palpated as a lipoma and he certainly doesn't like it. If an organ is being displaced to the point you can feel it like that, it means there's not much room for movement otherwise, so it's not likely to be an organ in Trixie's case I wouldn't think. Still have it checked out for peace of mind next time you see the vet, but it sounds unlikely.

[Trixie]

oh thank you Naomi! I am so reassured by everyone's posts about lipomas. I had the worsts feeling in the world when I first felt it! As you suggested I am going to have it checked. I will wait until our next visit to the vet which will be in a couple of weeks for another acth test, so I don't have to pay for another whole office visit.

Finally back from my daughter's college graduation and move out (tons of stuff to load and unload) and then picking up my other daughter and moving her out (more stuff). whew. Glad it is all over. My younger daughter did a great job babysitting Trixie and making sure she got her medication on time. Everything went just fine. Trixie was so happy to see us when we came home...did a lot of whimpering which my husband translated as " where have you guys been all weekend?" Seems accurate!
She is still doing okay on Trilostane. Drinking has leveled off to about 24 oz a day,still more than what had been usual but we were up at 50 oz a few weeks ago. All in all still doing fine. I have to schedule her next acth test. Should be sometime at the end of May.
Wow..a few days away and I see there are a lot of new posts to catch up on. Hope to get to the news on the board soon.
Barbara :p

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Just dropping in to check on how you and Miss Trixie are doing? Is she still sweet talking the shopowners into giving her treats?:D

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
Yes...well, Trixie's appetite has not subsided in the least. To be fair she had the same kind of appetite before the Cushings!
We are just back from my mother's house and Trixie spends all her time sweeping the floor looking for anything that she could possibly eat and begging nonstop from my mother when she eats. It drives me crazy.
Glad to be home now...Trixie super tired from being away all day!
I have to schedule her acth test. Very curious to see Trixie's level. :confused
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Trixie remembers your mom sneaking her food. She probably still thinks of your mom the same way. Do not let her behavior today stress you out. Remember, all bets are off when you're not at home. ;)
It's her usual routine at home that counts.

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Fellasmom]

Hi Barbara
I just read your post on Fella's memory page.Dont ya just love the little fella cheesecake?I just noticed you're from NY-?NYC..I lived down in Long Beach for many years-just moved back up to Boston a few yrs ago.I found my little Fella in the Rockaways roaming the streets.In fact,if you live in NYC,it was at Juniors in Times Sq,that my mother and I were salivating at all the different cheesecakes listed and landed on the one named "the little fella":D:D.I'm STILL smiling at that!If only I could signs like that everyday,I'd cry alot less tears.

I hope you and Trixie are doing well.Her appetite is like that of every golden retriever I have had!I haven't found anything my Gracie will turn her nose up at!:)
Patty

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, how are you and Trixie doing? Hope that everything is going great with both of you. :)

How is her eating and drinking doing?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Patty!! You're from Long Beach!! Small world! My father grew up in Long Beach and so did my mother in law. I lived on the South Shore as a little kid (in Wantagh-near Jones Beach) and moved to the North Shore when I was 12. I have lived here in the city for the last 30 years now but we go out to the beach all the time, and my mother still lives on the island so we are there every Sunday. I had relatives in Long Beach all my life...and my brother lived there too up until 10 years ago. So I know Long Beach very well.
I can't believe Fella was just wandering Rockaway and you found him...clearly it was meant to be, right!?
Of course I know Juniors Cheescake! I just know you got a sign with finding the Little Fella cake on the menu, I bet you will get more little messages like that, I'm glad that makes you feel better!
It's nice to be on this board where we don't have to explain the depth of feelings we have for our dogs..everyone just knows and feels the same. :D
Barbara

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
Thanks for checking in. :) I think Trixie is doing pretty well. Her drinking while still more than normal is way down. It seems to drop an ounce or so each day. This morning we went on our usual walk. As soon as we got outside I knew that the temperature I saw on the TV screen (68 degrees) was not what it was anymore because it was already feeling hot. When we got to the park I got the feeling it was a bit too warm for Trixie. She was okay and wanted to do her usual sniffing around but I made her sit on my lap in the shade for a bit when she was panting heavily. After a few more minutes roaming about I ended up taking her home in a cab...the walk is not too long but long enough that I felt it was too much for her. I was so glad I grabbed some money when we left the house so I could pay for the taxi. Then I put on the a/c and she cooled off...and so did I!
Her energy, eating and poops are still just fine..completely normal. In the evenings she seems to be on the bloated side though and I always hear tummy gurgles from around 8pm until I give her a pepcid at 11pm.
So I am thankful she seems pretty much fine but I find myself constantly watching, checking...and in fear waiting for the other shoe to drop. I know I shouldn't feel that way but I guess I'm afraid something is going to all of a sudden go wrong.
Tomorrow I am going to call and make her appt. for the next acth test. She started the 7mg 2x a day on April 25th...so we are due May 25th. I was hoping to wait until next Tuesday after the long weekend though because my vet is away this week. The other 2 vets who I know are there but I feel more comfortable waiting for the vet who is over seeing Trixie's care. Do you think it's it okay to wait a few extra days? Trixie hasn't had any symptoms of trouble with the Trilostane so I thought it would probably be okay to wait 3 more days. What do you think?
After the hot morning walk Trixie did seem especially tired and that always worries me, but when my daughter came in where Trixie was resting with a shopping bag Trixie popped up and was eager to have at it. One of her favorite indoor activities is attacking and tearing up paper bags, the bigger the better and she went crazy as usual. I was so happy to see she was just fine. Whew. Just wish I could stop thinking that things won't stay this good for long...it's silly to be this way, I know. Dogs can be managed and do well though can't they? I guess I'd love to hear some stories of dogs who did well for awhile on Trilostane. If anyone has some please share. We're still only a couple months living with this and I guess it's starting to hit me more even though Trixie is doing well. :confused:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh I think waiting for your vet next would be fine. Trixie hasn't had any kind of sensitivity to the trilostane that I have heard from what you've said. You know, some dogs don't run into issues. They just sort of take their medicine and skate along just fine. I hope that Trixie is going to be one of those. Amy's Borris, does very well too. Some adjustments to start out with, but then fine. Sure everyone gets a case of nerves and that is perfectly normal and even good to be vigilant.

We've had owners on here who have had dogs on the trilostane for years and then suddenly need an adjustment after literally years of being fine. That is scary because after a few years you don't expect an adjustment to be needed and it becomes scary, but again, it's a possibility and only really needs a dosage adjustment and then back they go to just skating along again. That is actually pretty good I think. If you only have to tweak every few years.

Molly isn't on the meds, but for the last couple years the heat bothers her more than it use to when she was younger. Now we can be walking around a long block and she'll decide she is hot and has had enough and will just lay down on some cool grass under a tree. I'll wait for awhile with her and then if she's still panting I'll end up carrying her for a ways till she is squirming and ready to walk or we reach our yard. (gosh, glad I have a small dog, I certainly couldn't do that with Tasha my golden!!) Smart girl to grab some cash before leaving the house. Cabs can be very handy. LOL

I think you are doing excellent Barbara and so is Trixie. I'm very happy to hear such a good report on her.
They say this summer will be more normal and not such as scorcher as we've had the last couple years. Molly loves the AC, and we keep it at an even temp in the house all the time, so she isn't overly thrilled to be outside if it is too hot.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thank you Sharlene...you always make me feel better! Everyone here has a knack for taming the nerves. :)
I would be so, so thankful if we can roll along uneventfully with a tweak in medication here and there...that doesn't sound so bad! If Trixie can go a year or even more without a serious health issue I would be so grateful!! I don't know where Trixie's liver levels are and I still worry about that, but like I said I'm happy and thankful with all the improvement we've had in the last 2 weeks and hope things continue smoothly. :p
Ugh :mad: we have more hot weather for tomorrow. :mad: I will try to take Trixie a bit earlier and maybe even take a cab to the park with her and eliminate the long walk just to get there. Her day is always much better after a morning out and about. I can see the difference in her when she doesn't get that exercise. Of course we'll make adjustments for hot weather though. Trixie is like Molly, pretty portable, if needed she can be picked up for a bit.
I see over the weekend they say a high of 70 degrees, which means the mornings will be much cooler than that! :D Yay! Much better weather for Trixie...she is just the happiest when she gets a nice long walk and time off the leash on a nice cool morning.
Thanks again for the being so reassuring! :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
When Buddy was so sick with his emergency and almost died, I didn't think he was going to come back home. I decided then and there that I was going to enjoy every minute that I have left with him because I didn't know how long it was going to be, and still don't. If I let myself think about all the negatives, I would be terrified all of the time. :eek: Buddy's liver numbers are very high and his liver is severely enlarged. I choose instead to appreciate the little things. Little things like lizard hunts and morning massages.:D. I look for positives signs whenever possible and focus on those. The only thing that has really thrown me for a loop is his head tremors. I guess what I'm trying to say is Trixie is doing great. She has Cushing's, so there's always going to be things to deal with, but you have a good handle on it and her prospects are excellent. Keep looking for signs pointing in a positive direction and treasure the moments you have with her.:)

[Trixie]

Yes Kathy...Of course you're right. I know it...sometimes I think about it too much and it all just gets the better of me. Last year at this time we were dealing with this clostridium bacteria issue (though we didn't know at the time what it was) and she was so sick. Terrible diarrhea, bleeding and throwing up and she was miserable. I could barely sleep I was watching her all night to make sure she was still breathing! It got so bad we ended up at the Animal Med. Center emergency room at 4am with her. It was a terrible feeling waiting there with her hoping she would be okay. So, I know what you're saying and you are right! Most of the time I feel positive and she is doing really well, all of her symptoms have improved. :)
Guess I just needed a pep talk so thank you!!...feeling better already! :D Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
How is Miss Trixie today? Did you get her pills in time? You mentioned she was going to run out on Sunday, so I'm just checking to make sure that you got that taken care of. I know that worried you.:(Did you make the appointment for her ACTH test on Tuesday?
Remember that she is still in the adjustment period, so don't panic if her meds need to be adjusted a little.;). Try to use up some of the old dosages if you can manage it. That is what I would do. I would combine old pills with new pills as long as they hadn't expired. Anything to save a little money.;)

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
You remembered everything correctly! :D Trixie's pills did come today. This pet pharmacy not too far uptown from me is so great. I didn't know about them until the Cushing's started. The vet uses them for compounded prescripts. They are so nice on the phone and very reliable. They compound the Trilostane in these little micro tabs which are chicken flavored. I poke them into a bit of dogfood and Trixie gobbles it right up. They deliver it right to my building..( :) no extra charge) and they were here before noon.
The ACTH test is scheduled for Tuesday at 2pm. The last time she had the ACTH she was only there for a short time so I'm not that anxious about it. (yet :rolleyes:) I'm okay with any tweaking that might be needed. My vet seems to be conservative with the dose and that's fine with me...so if things need to come up or down by a bit it doesn't scare me too much.
Trixie was so wired today because both my girls had friends over and Trixie does not like company.:mad: Sad but true. Outside Trixie is great with people, she walks off leash in Central Park and she behaves fine with everyone and also with all the dogs...but inside she has serious territorial issues...I have to keep tabs on her when people are here. Today she barked her head off and was all worked up for a good part of the afternoon so now she is sacked out.
She seems to be doing okay, but I can't judge her symptoms today at all because of her excited demeanor...she drank a lot, panted, and was a bit crazed. This is all normal for Trixie when visitors are here..and we couldn't even take her out to walk because it was raining and windy..oh- and really cold too! You would never know it's May if you were in NY today. It was like an early March day here. So there was way too much pent up energy with no morning hike to the park.
Anyway we are off to my mother's house tomorrow and Monday too and hopefully Trixie will get some decent outside time. The weather is supposed to improve.
I probably won't be online until Monday night...will let you know how the test goes...results probably not in until Wednesday I guess.
Hope you and Buddy and everyone on the board enjoy a nice long weekend. :)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, I totally get how Trixie is with people in her home. Molly isn't great either.

I did learn one thing and that is that (and this is our company, she will never tolerate just strange men coming to clean carpets or something like that) so, they come in and talk to me and husband at the door and never make eye contact with Molly or acknowledge her in any way. I know, hard when they are so cute right. Still it's the only way.
Then they can take shoes off, proceed to come in house, to living room or kitchen, and still do not look at molly or speak to her. She will be barking during this, at which time one of us might look at her and say sit, or some other command that she'll follow, but the guest still doesn't acknowledge. She will stop barking. Maybe make a grumble or something at some point, but she'll stop barking and usually just lie down and watch how things go. The guest may after she is calm and behaving, say hello to molly. If this results in any kind of barking other than a hello, and how are you doing bark, then it is back to ignoring her until Molly can acknowledge in an appropriate manner.

It sounds Much harder to do than it is. Once we figured it out, with the help of a friend who trains her own show dogs, it wasn't bad to do at all.

Now that friend is a hoot, when they come over, they always greet molly (who knows them) but getting down to her level and saying hello. It's very funny to see and Molly loves it, but she also knows them. They will also speak french to her, which she loves too.

Have a good Sunday/Monday at your mom's place. I'm sure things will go fine on Tuesday. I am absolutely in envy of the pharmacy you have found that delivers!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Sharlene....we always instruct everyone--"don't look at Trixie!!" "don't make eye contact!" :eek: That's if they can hear us over the crazy barking!
We have tried just about everything...trainers, water spray bottles, shaking cans of coins.. nothing ever changes with Trixie and visitors. I need the dog whisperer! We tried the calm approach and she didn't change a bit. She gets pretty aggressive but the trainer said she's really just afraid-that's hard to believe by her aggressive actions.
She also said in Trixie's perfect world no one but the family would ever walk through the front door. Not exactly a possibility if you have friends!!
The only thing that will sometimes help is if we put dog clothes-a shirt or a sweater on her and sometimes that works like a straight jacket because she hates apparel and she just freezes in her place with clothes on, but sometimes she will aggressively bark anyway! :mad:
Once people are in the door,(I keep Trixie on the leash), and they sit down she will finally relent-as long as everyone is sitting and conversing she will start to calm down but then they can't get up!! If they move, or get up it starts all over again!
With friends and people she knows she will let off after awhile but I still need to keep her close because I do not trust her.
Forget strange MEN or anyone with a tool box or uniform. Anyone at all who comes to fix anything is her enemy..then I must use gates and have them come in my back door and keep her as far away as possible.. there's always a lot of barking. When they leave and I take the gate down she goes crazy tearing around the house in pursuit of the culprit! Running around the whole place and sliding across the floor in a mad dash...sniffing for the guy, barking, growling, it's actually so funny but it's insane!!
Maybe I should see if someone speaking French to her would make a difference..sounds like Molly likes it. :D Maybe Trixie would prefer German..after all she is a schnauzer! :D

A perk of living in New York City is everything gets delivered for free. From the fast food places like McDonalds to the best restaurants...they will bring it to your door. Drug stores, pet supplies, hardware, grocery stores...all deliver same day. Only some grocery stores charge for delivery but pretty much everywhere else it's taken for granted that delivery is free. Love that option..especially in the winter!
Hope you enjoy the weekend, and Molly and her Dad too! ;)
Barbara

[Tina]

Hi Barbara,
Just checking in and getting caught up on Trixie. Glad to see she is doing so well!! You are doing a great job! Jasper has 5 lipomas, all on his chest and abdomen area, varying sizes. Each time one crops up, I have it aspirated, and so far all just fatty lipomas. Whew! I do think schnauzers are prone to them. I am impressed to read that Trixie walks off leash in the park! I could never trust either of mine with that, no way. I imagine they would run off, can't even think about that. :eek:



She gets pretty aggressive but the trainer said she's really just afraid-that's hard to believe by her aggressive actions.
She also said in Trixie's perfect world no one but the family would ever walk through the front door. No exactly a possibility if you have friends!!

I am having the exact same behavior issues with my little girl Shelby, and am told the same thing, that she is afraid and lacks confidence.


Once people are in the door,(I keep Trixie on the leash), and they sit down she will finally relent-as long as everyone is sitting and conversing she will start to calm down but then they can't get up!! If they move, or get up it starts all over again! With friends and people she knows she will let off after awhile but I still need to keep her close because I do not trust her. Forget strange MEN or anyone with a tool box or uniform. Anyone at all who comes to fix anything is her enemy..then I must use gates and have them come in my back door and keep her as far away as possible.. there's always a lot of barking. When they leave and I take the gate down she goes crazy tearing around the house in pursuit of the culprit! Running around the whole place and sliding across the floor in a mad dash...sniffing for the guy, barking, growling, it's actually so funny but it's insane!!
Maybe I should see if someone speaking French to her would make a difference..sounds like Molly likes it. Maybe Trixie would prefer German..after all she is a schnauzer!

This is exactly how Shelby behaves, to a tee! Once my friends are seated, they can't even move a muscle or she will start barking and growling all over again, so frustrating! I have just started having a behavior specialist from my vets office work with her, I am hoping to be able to improve some of this. :rolleyes: Hope you all enjoy the weekend and holiday!

Tina and Jasper

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, glad to hear that Trixie is doing well, but don't look her in the eye right? Aren't are furbabies funny? They all have their little quirks..I know how you feel about worrying and watching, guess we all do, it goes with the disease and our love for our babies....Take care and have a great Memorial Day weekend!!

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara
welcome home :)
how did the weekend at your moms go?
how did Trixie do?ugh sometimes it is a pain typing on this tablet. I have a love hate relationship with it lol
Hope all is well
Hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Didn't Trixie have her ACTH test today?

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Trixie]

hi everyone...
catching up on posts tonight. :) Tina- Shelby sounds exactly like Trixie, with all those bossy schnauzer rules. :D "You can sit in my house but no walking around and no moving either!" :D Yes, Trixie goes "off leash" during the off leash hours in Central Park. It took some training and lots of treats to get to the point where she could be trusted doing so. It's been about 5+ years now and she mostly sticks by me, I love being able to let her walk along on her own. The squirrels are on to the fact that the dogs are only allowed to be off leash until 9am and they keep a low profile! Otherwise it would be impossible. We had a couple of incidents in the beginning but it's been years now and it's a favorite activity for us!

Letti- You're right, the furbabies are funny with all their quirky behaviors!

Sharlene- The weekend was okay, after a rainy Saturday we had great weather on Sunday and Monday. Things at my mothers are not great. My mom continues to have difficulty with confusion and agitation in the evenings and it's getting worse lately. We're pretty concerned about which way to turn next. Trixie likes being out there and my husband takes her on long walks, but yesterday she didn't want to go on the usual trek. So, of course we worried about that all day as it is unusual behavior for her. She seems ok though, just extra tired yesterday and today but otherwise seems fine.

Kathy-Yes, today was Trixie's ACTH test. Thanks for remembering with everything you have on your mind. Results will be on Thursday. It was raining today but Trixie willingly walked across the street toward the vet and walked right up to the door, probably to get out of the rain and get a treat..once in there I think she said to herself-"what was I thinking-get me out of here!". She didn't even want the treat at the front desk. Guess everything went fine but it took a lot longer than last time. She was there 3 hours and last time it was about 90 minutes or so. When I picked her up I asked why it was so much longer this time. Turns out they were busy as the head vet was just back from a long time away...(got married, honeymoon, and also went for some classes or something) so they were really busy and didn't really start with her the moment she got there but they said everything was in the right time frame..I hope so! Of course I will share the results once I have them.

Going to give Trixie her pepcid and get to bed! Thanks everyone for the posts! :D Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
We all have off days when we are tired and sluggish. One missed walk might be just that, particularly since Trixie seems fine this morning. We are always going to worry when our fur babies act a little off, that's just our parent radar going off. That alarm rings and we hop to action.;) We'll be watching for those ACTH scores;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
How is Miss Trixie today and where are those ACTH numbers?:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--I was out most of today and expected to have a message on the phone from the vet but there was none. So I have no test results today. I'll be home all day tomorrow so hopefully he will call...if not I will call there in the afternoon. The vet had just gotten back from a few weeks away so I think he's probably backed up. As soon as I know the numbers I'll be posting. Trixie seems pretty good..drinking way down and I think her urine actually has had some color the last few days. We'll see what the test has to say.
Thanks so much for checking in with me.;)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Checking in to see if you have any results yet. :)
How is Trixie doing? We've been humid here this week. Molly is Not a fan.
That is so great that you can go walking with Trixie through Central Park. I love going there It's my zen when in the city. hahahaha I bet Trixie loves it too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
Hot and humid here too...crazy hot! :cool: Trixie is like Molly...not a fan of the heat--and neither am I! :eek:
So...my vet was off today. I called in the afternoon and they said someone would get back to me about the test results. Of course I was out walking Trixie when they called..that always happens. Anyway, the message did not give me the number but the other vet said it looks good, no change in dose and my vet will call on Monday with more details and will answer any questions.

Trixie's symptoms have subsided so much and right now there are no side effects from the Trilostane (I so hope we stay that way!) I pretty much figured we would be leaving dose at 7mg twice a day.
I don't want to jinx anything but the drinking is just about normal, which I am still not believing after so many months of crazy drinking! Eating-well she's always been a hungry girl and a beggar so it's hard to tell but she does seem less ravenous.
I'll have the number on Monday and you all can tell me what you think.
Walking in Central Park is a great part of our day. We go pretty much every morning. Today we went extra early because of the heat, but it was already pretty warm at 7:30. I actually took her there in a cab (about a 4-5 minute ride)-we then walked in the park and then we walked back home. I don't think she could have walked the round trip in this heat. She was pretty beat when we got into the a/c.
She just loves being in the park! She used to play with other dogs a lot and get into great chases in the open fields. Now that she's older she mostly wants to walk and sniff...doing her detective work and getting all the news....my husband and I say she's reading the "pee-mail". haha. There are so many dogs there...every breed and mix..it's really an amazing dog scene. We always walk the same route when she's off leash which keeps it safe. When she was younger there were a few bolting instances which almost gave me heart failure but for the last 4-5 years she stays pretty close. She also knows I bring a bag full of treats with me ;) that helps!
We plan on going in the morning but again it will be almost 80 degrees before 9am so we'll go early in a cab and spend more time in the park instead of wasting time just getting there.
Well...I've gone on and on! :rolleyes:
When I get the real test results on Monday I'll post the number!
Have a great weekend.
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

So glad that Trixie is stable on the meds, hopefully the tests will have a positive number for your little furbaby....oh how we wait and wait on those tests, don't the vets know we are their number one clients?:)
Anyways, so happy that you get your days in the park too, how fun is that!!!! Pee-mail, good one lol, take care

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, with Trixie's symptoms coming under control, yea, it does sound like this is a good dosage for her. Not bad only one adjustment. :) Still want that number, but it's not a rush from the sounds of it. :) Like that.
It's humid here again today. Molly is grumbling and wasn't overly interested in going too far on her walk this morning.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

What is the matter with those doctors? Don't they realize that Trixie always comes first!!!:D. They have their nerve to make you wait almost a week for ACTH results. That is not okay! I am glad to hear that Trixie is doing so well! :)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Ok..well just got the call from the vet. Despite better on drinking symptoms Trixie's numbers were worse now than the first ACTH test.
:confused:
April test:
3.2
7.2

May test;
8.0
10.4

So....wow. I was surprised by this...but vet said that's what's frustrating about Cushings....cortisol varies so...if she was worked up from being at the vet etc....
Anyway he wanted to up from 7mg 2x a day to 10mg...but I really want to be more gradual and he said it was fine. Going to get the compound pharmacy to make me some 2mgs to go with the 7mgs I just got...not wasting money this time round. so we'll be at 9mg 2 x a day.
Anyway...what do you all think??
I will go by tomorrow to get the actual copy of results...he said the liver enzymes are still high. Trixie seems pretty good...a little heavier on the drinking over the weekend but I chalked it up to the heat.
Ugh...it's not like I stopped worrying or anything but I was feeling a little lighter on the worry. Oh well...just upping a little and tweaking is part of all this. Means another expensive acth in 4 weeks. Oh well...part of this sucky disease...what can you do?
So strange that she's higher now than she was in April though. I guess the other vet lied until I could talk to my vet. I suppose I kind of appreciate them having me not feeling all bad over the weekend before I could talk with the vet in charge of Trixie.
Your thoughts on this are welcome!! :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,:)
I know you are disappointed that Trixie hasn't found her ideal dosage and ACTH tests are expensive!!:( They'll get it right eventually and she's doing we'll otherwise, right? So, I wouldn't worry too much about it;) 6 days before results is crazy though.:eek: I would have been there knocking the door down!:eek::D I would have have been spitting mad if that vet had lied to me!:mad: I always prefer that tell me like it is without sugar coating anything, but then that's me! Give Trixie a belly rub for me.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Yes...Kathy, I normally would have been a little more irritated by the wait but because Trixie seemed so much better I guess I figured it was not so urgent.
The results should have been called to me on Thursday afternoon...I knew my vet was super busy having just gotten back from time away. Then he was off Friday so when I called one of the other vets there looked at the results and an asst. called with the message that "all was ok and stay on the same dose, Dr. Nicholson (my vet) will call with details on Monday". So they didn't exactly lie to me, I just interpreted the message my own way thinking numbers were good and she would stay on the same dose but really that wasn't exactly what the message was...so that's the low down on that.
Meanwhile I am just a bit confused that symptoms are better and numbers are worse. :confused: I am not just wishful thinking on the drinking as I have been measuring Trixie's water intake everyday since the diagnosis. She has come down from 50 ounces a day to between 15-20 oz a day...a real decrease. Also, she has not used the puppy pads for about 2 weeks now, when she had been using them often..probably every 3-4 hours in April and part of May.
Of course the liver still being high is a concern and as I mentioned in an earlier post it's hard for me to judge on the eating..she usually wants food...her food or the food of anyone who is eating. So it's not like she has no symptoms anymore but the most pronounced one-drinking-is definitely better and yet numbers are worse than a month ago.
Barbara


She is acting ok

[frijole]

I didn't use trilostane so I don't want to comment on the dosing increase. That said i think the progress in water consumption is fantastic and something to be very happy about. The liver enzymes typically remain high in cush dogs so don't fret over that. Sometimes we focus on the numbers and ignore the dog and it seems like your baby is doing much better so despite the frustration and confusion do take time to celebrate what is a win and that is progress! Kim

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,
Don't be too down about the numbers. Sure they went up a bit but her symptoms are better.
Dechra has stated that with symptoms controlled you might even see the Post ACTH number as high as a 9.0. So it's not terrible numbers. Every dog is different remember. Numbers can bounce around sometimes too.

I'd would guess that the person who read the numbers, didn't read them in relationship to a dog that is already under treatment. They will see the lab part that says normal up to 18. and not go on to read that it is different for dogs treated with vetoryl or lysodren. The normal range I mean. So they probably made what is a common error. Your vet did not make that mistake though and thinks the dose should be increased. So adding the 2mg pills, just see how that works for her.

I am sorry though that they didn't actually go down so that you wouldn't have to do testing again so soon. That is one of the most frustrating things about treating with vetoryl, there is some constant testing till you get that good post number that you want to stay at.

Hang in there, you really are doing really well and so is Trixie. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

So glad to hear that Trixie is doing better, makes Momma much better too!! Way to go Trixie!!

[Trixie]

Thank you Kim :). I definitely see improvement in Trixie. I was freaking out when she was drinking non stop all day...the drinking is so much less now. I suppose I would feel better if her numbers stayed the same rather than worsen...but hopefully the increase from 14mg to 18mg is what she needs.
I'm going to just cross my fingers and hope this new dose does the trick and without any side effects.
Barbara

[Trixie]

:) Thank you Sharlene,
I am not going to let myself get all crazy about the higher numbers. (well ok-- I am trying not to let myself get all crazy!) Trixie's most obvious symptoms that I can observe (unlike the liver issue which I can't see or notice) are drinking and eating. Both are definitely better.
I know that we are really, really lucky that these are the only 2 symptoms which have been noticeable to me. I won't jinx it by listing the ones we haven't had.
Just hoping for good results and no issues with an increase of 4mg a day. Hoping the next acth goes down and not up! :mad:
Barbara

[Trixie]

thanks Letti :) Trixie does seem to be doing well...we'll see how the new dose goes. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Okay Barbara,
Time to smile.:) Life is good for Trixie right now! So relish the moment! Numbers aren't EVERYTHING!!

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

I went over to the vet today to pick up the copy of Trixie's test results. The liver numbers have me so nervous.
ALT 220 (12-118)
ALK 2123 (5-131)
GGTP 34 (1-12)

Cholest 372 (92-324)
Triglys 578 (29-291)

These were the only numbers which were flagged high-(the lab is Antech). The Alk phos is through the roof and it seems so scary to me. I know all of these elevated ones are consistent with Cushings but wow...that 2123 is making me nervous.
Meanwhile Trixie does seem okay. Appetite is good. She walked about 2 miles today. Her energy and demeanor are normal and so far today she has had a completely normal amount of water.
Tomorrow I will add a 2mg capsule to our 7mg mini tablets. I am so glad the 2mg look different than the 7mg! I was already worrying about screwing up the dosages but with 2 different looking pills I can't mess it up.
I know I should not concentrate on the pre and post numbers but it's so puzzling to me that she went up and not down when her symptoms have improved so much. :confused:
Barbara


Are there any other test values that would be insightful

[molly muffin]

Just to compare with the testing you posted earlier

04-05-2013
ALT: 246
ALK-P: 1295
GGTP: 39

No high numbers for cholesterol or triglys on that test?

So, the ALT and the GGT have actually gone down, while the ALKP has raised significantly. I know many of the vets have said to not worry about the ALKP numbers. That is of course, easier said than done sometimes.
I'll let some of the others who have more experience with the lab results comment. These can all be associated with cushings though.

Did you get a copy of the ultrasound that was done at the time of her test diagnosing cushings? I remember you said, non adrenal, but I am wondering what the actual test said about liver, adrenal glands, glall bladder, spleen, etc. I would think if there was anything there, they would have mentioned it to you, but still curious. :)

Symptoms are doing pretty well and she seems to have plenty of energy. 2 mile walk indeed!!
You can put the pills in one of those containers for the day of the week. Fill them at the beginning of the week with the pills and then just use them each day. You'll be all set :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

What does her albumin results look like, have they been decreasing/increasing or stabilizing?

If this were me, I would add some fish oil to help with lowering those triglycerides and cholesterol, her thyroid level is normal, right?

[Budsters Mom]

Okay, so the test results have freaked you out! :eek: Yes, seeing those scores is disheartening, but look how great Trixie is doing! She taking 2 mile walks and has boundless energy. I could live with that quite happily.;):) Start Trixie on her new dosage tomorrow and see how it goes. Try not to worry so much, it'll give you wrinkles! LOL:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

I did not get a copy of the ultrasound results but I can. At the time I think the vet said that the adrenal glands were enlarged and he didn't point out any other problems..maybe he said enlarged liver but I can't recall now.

April 2nd---- May29
cholest -330--- 372
triglcer -1066--- 578

so the triglycerides did come down, and the cholesterol went up some. Here are some of the other numbers....

April 2------- May 29
Albumin-4.3--- 4.0 (2.7-4-4)
Bun/ Creatinine- 21--- 16 (4-270)
Glucose 72--- 85 (70-138)
Potassium 4.3--- 4.5 (3.6-5-5)



Thyroid is normal

good idea about using one of those pill organizers Sharlene. I may even have one around...
I just got out the April test to give you these numbers. Got so worked up about the ones that were flagged I forgot to compare them. So yes...only the alk phos and cholesterol flagged high and were up from April.
Thanks for looking this over!

[Trixie]

yes Kathy...You are right! Better now..I hadn't even compared the results to the last test...thanks to Sharlene I can see it isn't all that bad. It was just the jerk reaction of seeing those results with that bold print HIGH next to them.
Have to be happy about how Trixie seems to be. It's nice and cool here..we'll be out at the park in the morning and when I'm there with her I almost forget about all of this! ;)
Barbara

[Trixie]

just bumping this up so that I can get feedback on the albumin numbers that I posted earlier. I don't know what's good or not good with this...
Thanks for anyone that can give insight. ;)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Sorry Barbara,
I don't know anything about that, but would like to say hi.:):) give Trixie a belly rub for me.:);)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
Glad you popped in for a hello and we send a belly rub right back to Buddy! :D
Lori had mentioned looking the albumin number, I also don't know what albumin is, so I looked it up and it's related to the liver somehow but I didn't really get to if it's a number you want high or low. Trixie's at the high end of the normal scale...hope that's not bad!
Trixie' now started on a higher dosing...we're doing 9mg 2x a day-going up a total 4mg a day. Vet had mentioned going to 10mg and using the actual vetoryl instead of the compounded rx.
Maybe I should have done that..I asked him to just move up 4mg a day, but now I'm 2nd guessing myself-- maybe I should have gone with the higher dose after her numbers climbed back up. :confused:
Oh well we'll see on the next acth.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

Quite often in dogs with higher cortisol levels, especially over an extended period of time, you will see high (ish) Albumin levels. Dogs that are for instance given corticosteroids, often will have high albumin.

Only the liver can produce albumin and is directly related to hydration. This little protein, holds the water that is within blood cells, hydration. It helps to keep the blood vessels strong.

If you have low albumin, then you have an issue of the body not producing enough albumin in the liver to keep blood vessel walls strong. It's hard for sluggish blood to move through the vessels and that can cause a break or leak and you don't want that.

High albumin levels, can be associated with as I mentioned first, steroids (high cortisol), immune system, where there has been a chronic infection as an example.

There really are all of these things, but you have to take the whole picture into account. Bun/Creatinine is fine. Globulin isn't elevated, etc and you do have the cushings with alkp and liver issue in general that affects albumins.

Pretty normal for a dog that anything is affecting the liver to show some elevation of Albumin.

I think you are okay within this range. Of course monitor, just as you do all the blood values and urine values and just see if they move up or down.

I have blood work done every few months, for exactly this reason. ALKP, ALT, Albumin.

Trixie is doing pretty good when you look at this.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin