Trixie - Schnauzer being treated with Vetoryl - Trixie has crossed The Bridge

[Trixie]

oh thanks for explaining Sharlene. I did look it up but your explanation was much better and easier to understand than what I found online.
We have added 4mg more of Trilostane a day now. This afternoon Trixie was panting some-for seemingly no reason and it's a symptom she had only a little so..I don't know. I feel like she was better a week ago but maybe that's in my head because I know that her numbers went up. :(
Hoping the new dose will make a difference.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

You added 2 mg in the morning and 2 mg in the evening correct? making it 9/9 If you feel it's too high for her you can always do 9/7 or 7/9 and not 9/9. You went from 14 to 18mg. I know her numbers are still a bit high and that if they don't come down this time, you'd be looking at doing another ACTH test soon again, but if you feel she isn't handling it well, then that is an option.
Hang in there. Let us know if she does anything other than the panting.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
You also have 6mg. Pills left from before. You can combine 6 and 2 making 8 also. Just a thought.... If you change dosages too much though, you won't know which was the right one. Buddy weigh 16 pounds. He take 20mg. Of Trilo once per day. Every fur baby is different. You'll find the right one soon.:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Oh...I don't feel like it's too high. I was beginning to think it was too low. Yes, Sharlene it's now 9mg 2x a day. The vet suggested we start the Vetoryl 10mg 2x which meant going up from 14mg to 20mg which scared me and I told him I wanted to be more gradual so we are at 18mg (split into the 2 doses) until the next acth test.
I am going to stick with the 9mg 2x dose for now, I definitely don't want to go down unless the results from the next test say so. She has had no bad reaction to the drug so far.
Like I said since I know the numbers went up I am probably reading into everything like today's panting episode. Ugh...I'm constantly worrying. Have to keep reminding myself of the positive things and also Trixie is still going for long walks, eating fine..etc etc...
Just hate seeing any back tracking. Supposed to have a crazy heavy rainstorm for the next 24 hours which stresses Trixie so much and in turn me too! :( Thank you everyone for always being there in support!!
Going to really try to stop worrying quite so much. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh Barbara, hugs. It'll be alright. You're doing good. I misunderstood and thought you were worried about the panting, that it might be a bad sign or something. Trixie is doing really well. Numbers, bummers, Trixie is good and that is the most important.

You know that dogs can feel a storm coming right, the change in the barametric pressure and the ionization in the air, all combine to do a real number on their sensory systems. So, she might be anticipating the storm.
I know what you mean though. They scare molly too and that in turn makes both me and my husband a bundle of nerves if there is any lightening or thunder.

Today was rainy and chilly here, but nothing else, so molly wasn't overly concerned. Which was good, since I went in to the office today. Sun by Sunday, so holding out for that!! :)

My neighbor keeps bringing me plants from her yard. I think she is trying to make me work. You know, as long as she is in garden mode, I should be too. LOL I told her she was going to end up having to ply me with wine to recover from all the broken nails (yea yard gloves and I still break them) and sore backs. LOL Guess Molly and I will plant at some point this weekend. Molly thinks she is my helper. Uh huh. :)

Have a good evening, hope the storms aren't too awful.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
It's a mother's job to worry. it's in the DNA. I am sorry about the rain storm headed your way. The weather here has been about 75 -78 degrees, with a cool breeze for about the past week or so. You must hate to hear that!!!;) Have Trixie ever tried a Thundershirt for storms? It wraps them in gentle pressure and is very soothing. Buddy has one that we use when there is going to be a thunder storm. Buddy gets so upset that he makes himself sick. Thankfully, we don't get too many storms here. In order for the Thundershirt to help, you need to use it when everything is okay and fun, like a trip to the park. That way, they relate it to good times. If you use it only or storms, then you won't get the desired effect.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Yes Kathy...I know about the thundershirt but haven't purchased one yet as Trixie is so bad about wearing clothing. If I put any apparel on her she just stands frozen in place. It's actually kind of funny to see...like she's a statue, but seriously she won't move a muscle....she really hates anything on her body. So I wasn't sure it was worth the money, thought it might be double stress for her..a storm and clothes at the same time.
Here's the crazy thing--we are having a big rain storm tonight...no thunder or lightning, but after years of fearing the storms she just hears the sound of rain and freaks..to her the rain and thunder go together.
She has been hiding in her usual spot, the girl's bathroom. She hears one drop of rain and she goes straight there.
You know Sharlene, I thought the panting today just may have been that she was sensing the change in the weather. I know you are right that they can sense the change in pressure well before a storm moves in. I've seen this happen with her for years now..she'll go and hide over an hour before a drop of rain falls.
I think I'll decide that is what brought on panting this afternoon!
Poor Trixie guess she be sleeping in that bathroom tonight...we hate when she's not in her usual spot in our bed! :rolleyes:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Well, Barbara I was just watching the weather channel and it sure looks like a lot of rain is coming your way. It is going to be nasty out there if it isn't already. I'm so sorry that the rain freaks out Trixie. She probably feels safer in the bathroom.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
I am so sorry that it has rained so hard and scared Trixie. Poor little thing. I hope the storm blows through really fast, so Trixie can get out to the park and play. I just know that would make her feel so much better. As long as it's raining, she can't go visit her shop owner friends and get snacks. That sucks!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trish]

I love hearing about Trixie's trips around New York and to Central Park, it sounds so exotic to me... like the movies :D:D I imagine her little head looking out the window of one of those yellow cabs and just smile!! Hope the storms subside and our Trixie gets back to romping in the park! Have a good weekend you guys xxx:D

[Budsters Mom]

How is Trixie today? Did the storm blow through?

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Was that Tropical Storm Andrea that you were getting with all the rain?
We've had a really cloudy day here and that is what they are saying it is from. Crossing fingers for sunshine tomorrow for all of us!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Yes...tropical storm Andrea blew in yesterday and today blew out! It was heavy rain all day and night and rain was forecast for the 1st half of the day today too. We were pleasantly surprised though to wake up to a very sunny morning--storm was gone! So we went off to our usual morning off leash time in Central Park. I hate to miss Saturdays because my husband loves coming too and our Sundays are spent out on Long Island taking care of my mother so Saturday is the only day he can come along.
Anyway, Trixie hid most of yesterday because of all the noise the rain made but we never did have thunder/lightning so she wasn't too bad...no shaking, no panting and no drooling! yay!
She had her long walk first thing today, home for breakfast and then just a couple hours later she had to head back out with my husband because the cable man was coming!! :eek:
I try to schedule anything involving a repairman on Saturdays so that my husband can remove Trixie from the scene. She will bark the entire time..and loud, no kidding.
He was here for awhile so she was on another long walk..needless to say she is pooped now. Really tired, but thankfully doing really well!
I think the panting episode we had Thursday was definitely a reaction to the impending storm and not a Cushing's related panting episode.
We have had no adjustment issue with the increased dose, I hope it brings that number down on the next acth test.
Off to my mother's in the morning--eldercare day...no internet there. :mad:
Hope everyone has a nice Sunday!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I'm thrilled to hear that Trixie's been walking the streets once more!:D Dang, those storms!! I hope your mom's visit goes well.:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trish]

Glad to hear the panting was storm related, some get so upset by things like that. Hope your visit with your Mom went well, I think quite a few of us as well our doggies health to worry about we also have elderly parents who are also such a concern and we keep on juggling all those balls in the air so don't forget to have some YOU time to recharge the batteries on occasion (easier said than done I know!) Hope you and Trixie and hubby have a nice week and are enjoying the summer weather with no more storms!!! :)

[Budsters Mom]

So what's up with Miss Trixie today? Have you noticed any change since you upped her dosage?

Hugs,
Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Just checking on you and Miss Trixie, sending hugs and belly rubs!

[Trixie]

Hi Everyone and thanks for checking in!! I was trying to stay off the computer these last few days because I had so much work to do reorganizing stuff now that both my daughters are home from college. One graduated so she brought home tons of stuff. Anyway once I sit down with the computer I get stuck reading and checking out websites and end up getting nothing done and so I went cold turkey for a little bit.
Trixie is doing okay. I suspect that this last increase in her dose of Trilo is probably not high enough. I notice things here and there with her but for the most part she is pretty good. I wish I had gone along with the vet's suggestion to move up to 20mg a day from the 14mg. We're now at 18mg (divided by 2 doses) and I do see symptoms breaking through sometimes, which of course is disheartening. It was me who asked if we could be more gradual...maybe it wasn't a good idea.
She always seems to have a better day when she has really good exercise in the morning. Today was so nice and cool so we had a good walk...probably about 2 miles. I definitely notice that she does not handle the heat very well...(neither do I) so on hot days we just can't do the longer walks.
I will be eager to see what happens on the next acth test. I will cross my fingers that we don't have numbers that go up again!!
I'm going to read the posts now and catch up on everyone's news. I hope all the pups are doing well and feeling good! :D

Barbara :)

[molly muffin]

Oh I don't think you were wrong at all to go with baby steps. Sometimes when you start out higher, they don't tolerate it as well as when you start lower and move up. We've found on here, that doing it this way, even if it does take longer, is usually the best way to get where you want to be.

Oh you must be super busy with both girls home! I can't even imagine. I know how it was when both ours were home at the same time. Chaos! LOL

Computer breaks can be good for the soul you know. Especially when you are all caught up in this whole treatment stuff all the time. I think now that you are sort of settled into a schedule that things will be much easier.

Doesn't mean you're off the hook for checking in though. Too long and we'll come looking for you. LOL :)

Glad to hear things are going well though and a sneaky symptom, isn't all that bad.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Barbara,
I thought I'd answer on your thread, the question about what am I giving Molly.
Specifically I am using Hepato Support by Rx Vitamins.
You can google it and find out information about. I know you can order it online in the
states. In Canada I have to have a prescription for it.
Do you have Trixie on a liver support already?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thanks Sharlene-she's on Denamarin..is it similar to what you use for Molly? I'll look up the Hepto online and check it out. I just wondered if there is anything else I can do since her number is so high. Are there any foods that are particularly good for the liver? I don't deviate much on Trixie's diet but if there was something good for liver that she might be able to have I would love to know.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Barbara :)

[Budsters Mom]

Trixie must love her sister's being home! Fun time for all!:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--Trixie does love it when the whole family is here at home. Her problem is she doesn't like anyone else to come thru the door!!
She's got me a little worried. Now..we are having off and on rain today and also storms approaching-(though they have downgraded a bit) so perhaps she's a little off because of all that. Last night she was a little restless like she was when she was first diagnosed. She sat up in bed and was panting a lot. Then she laid back down but her breathing was fast and shallow. It was around 2am and of course I was freaking out. I got up and turned on the a/c...it wasn't exactly hot but the room was warm and no breeze coming in. She definitely seemed better once it cooled off but still breathing on the fast side. She gets her nightime dose at 10pm so it was only 4 hours since she had her pill. Her tummy is only a bit bloated but I'm worried this is all related to the liver maybe? I don't know...I feel like we are back tracking. Things were going so well and now--not so much. I keep wondering if the compounded tablets were maybe "off" this time, not strong enough? I guess that is possible...the pharmacy where they come from is really good and the vet said he has never had an issue. I just wonder why the dose is up and I'm starting to see symptoms starting to increase. Or is this all weather related? In the morning she seemed fine. She's still eating fine, pooping fine, barking at noises all her usual stuff but maybe acting a little off here and there-again maybe this weather?? We had a very long walk yesterday and she was fine but today it was raining so no good exercise. She always seems better after her long morning walk.
Last night really threw me...I don't know what to think now. Guess I'll see how tonight goes. Kind of anxious to do another acth (tho not anxious to pay for it) and see what's going on. I guess we're due in another couple of weeks. :confused:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara, Trixie gets upset when she knows that storms are approaching. She is very sensitive to weather changes. That could be her problem and not the Cushing's? Yes, those ACTH tests are expensive. I wouldn't be anxious to get one done too soon either. Keep an eye on her and see how tonight goes. Remember she feeds off of your energy. Try to stay as calm as possible.;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--I'm glad you reminded me about being worried around the dog...she does pick up on the mood for sure. Going to concentrate on NOT being all worried tonight! :rolleyes:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Molly is very sensitive to the ionization that comes with storms too and pants like crazy and won't settle down either. She has always been like that though.

I'm sure that even loving having the girls home, that things are more chaotic than usual, with noise and people and in and out, etc.

Hopefully these summer storms will just roll on through and be over with soon.
We've had rain here today too and Molly is currently behind the house. I just hope that there aren't any tonight or we won't be getting any sleep either.

Hang in there.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Yes Sharlene...they are very sensitive to the weather. Right now it's pouring-no thunder (thank goodness!) but pounding rain. Trixie is hiding...I think she's in the kitchen under the table. She really does get worked up they way you describe the way Molly reacts.
I'm happy to report when my husband and older daughter came in and Trixie did her usual crazy greeting...happy and bouncy, running around grabbing toys so that made me feel better.
I think part of her sulking today was no long walk and no one was playing with her. :(
I am hoping that she has a restful night. I was so worried about her last night.
I let this disease get the better of me every time Trixie acts a little off. Wish I could stop that! :mad:
A year ago today she began what ended up to be months of a bad bacterial infection...with very bad gastro symptoms. She was so sick, like a little rag doll...vomiting, diarrhea...the works! It was scary. So even with Cushing's, right now she doesn't have any of that kind of thing going on and for that I am thankful. :rolleyes:
Thanks for reminding me that the weather really does affect behavior.
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

So,how was Trixie's night?
Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

So enough already. Where are you? Are you in need of a search party?
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Sorry for being MIA, you know Sunday is eldercare day at my mother's and Saturday we grocery shop for my mother in law so I was barely on the computer. My mother's house is not tech friendly! No internet at all and even my cell phone is spotty because of all the trees around the area. It takes me awhile to get back in gear on Mondays so I'm just now catching up on the board.
Trixie has been only so-so. Last night when we came back from my mother's she seemed okay but when she was laying on the floor resting she was breathing so quickly. It was scary. She didn't seem distressed..(there were no storms around) but it was like she was panting but with her mouth closed. Rapid respiration. I gently put my ear on her side and her heartbeat did not seem rapid or pounding and she didn't seem to be in any pain.
I'm watching her now and she is still breathing a bit fast but nothing like last night. She slept fine. She eats fine, poops fine..but this breathing thing is starting to seem off. Maybe the enlarged liver causes this? Big liver compressing her lungs?
Symptoms are more pronounced than a couple weeks ago...more panting and bloating, water intake up a tad but still not terrible like it was in April.
I'm sure Trixie would like to get out for a walk but it's hot and that seems to really be bad for her lately. She didn't get a long walk this morning as I had to take my daughter to the airport and she always seems sulky to me without that exercise.
Maybe we'll just do a quick stroll, she needs to go out anyway and I'll see how her breathing is when we get back in.. I've got the a/c down pretty cold to keep her comfortable.
Guess we will need to see the vet if the breathing thing continues to be that weird. Trying to avoid another bill before the next acth. Ugh. Thunder storms due tomorrow evening...that really sets her off too and seems to make all symptoms worse.
I know I'm not in the minority when I say I hate, hate this lousy disease that my dog has. :mad:

[Budsters Mom]

I am with you Barbara. Cushings sucks!!!! :( We are here to make the sucky parts a little more manageable. :pSorry to hear that Trixie seems a little off. You'll get her dose sorted out soon, I'm sure. Sorry about the storm headed your way. I know that storms freak Trixie out!
Hugs to you both,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara and welcome home. I didn't see where you actually posted what the sonogram report said. Did I just miss that? I saw you said that pituitary was confirmed, not adrenal, but nothing else.
Do you have that report and can you post what it says about liver and other organs, specific to size of liver? Mildly enlarged, grossly, etc.
The liver can put pressure on other things, like lungs, etc, however, quite often the liver size will decrease once cortisol is under control. We've seen that happen many times.
So, the breathing is increased, but not the heart rate and this seems to have just started in the last couple weeks?
I know a bunch of questions, just trying to get an idea of what might be going on.
Hang in there! You're doing great, this is not an easy disease sometimes, especially in the beginning.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

Hi Barbara
Just trying to get caught up here and sorry to hear that Trixie is having a hard time.And,of course,we are having horrible rain,thunder and lightening right now so hoping our lousy weather is not heading your way.Sounds like everything else is good with Trixie so thats good news.Hopefully its just been this awful weather we have been having that has her out of sorts.Keep us posted and hugs to you both.
Patty
PS-Thanks for welcoming Romeo!I kinda snuck him in a few weeks ago-love him to pieces!He loves everybody and is afraid of everything.So different from my tough Rockaway dog,Fella!:).

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
I never had a copy of the sono results...I believe when we saw the vet that day he said the liver was slightly enlarged and adrenals slightly enlarged and that was it. I think he said everything on the sono was expected with Cushings. Now, this was back in March and I'm not remembering much of that anymore so I am going to pop over there tomorrow, it's across the street, and get the sono report. I'm questioning myself as to exactly what he said that day, it's fuzzy now.
I have noticed for awhile now that she seems to breathe faster but mostly in the evening. Last night it was very fast..not noisy or labored but as I watched her resting, her belly was just up and down, up and down-- so fast. When I put my ear to her side I didn't notice any kind of wheezing or noise in her chest and her heartbeat did not sound like it was racing or pounding hard. Of course this was just me and my ear, obviously not a vet, no stethoscope-what can I really tell?? :confused:... I was just trying to gauge if she was in any distress.
She was certainly tired after a day at my mothers and a car ride home...(she's not a good traveler).
Right before the last acth test her symptoms had decreased so much. I expected good numbers when, as you probably remember, they went up. Since then the symptoms have been creeping back. Always worse in the evening..so I suppose that 10am dose is wearing off by 8 or 9pm before the 10pm dose is due.
Guess we are still in the tweaking stage. It's just that breathing thing got me nervous last night.

The bad things I observe: :(

Rapid breathing
some panting
bloated belly-worse in the evening
slight increase in drinking (about 20oz a day up from about 16-17oz)
dilute urine-started to have some color a couple weeks ago, now back to mostly clear
lipoma -there may be two now

Good things I observe::)

Good appetite
Good gastro-poops good and regular
still seems to have energy, wants to walk and go out
still runs around, wants to play

so confusing...I know dogs (animals) are good at hiding sickness or weakness so I keep watching her...mostly I look at her and think she's okay, doing fine-(other than the symptoms popping back.) Other times worrying gets the better of me and I think she's just not right.
Ugh..I'm sorry to go on and on..it's so nerve wracking :mad:
I definitely feel like we back tracked. I'm sure this is common with everyone.
I hope we can get this dose worked out.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Trixie could be one of those who is going to need a higher dose. Remember that some smaller dogs require larger doses and some large dogs require small doses. It can seem strange, but then no dogs system is the same, how well do they metabolize, is there any sensitivity, etc.

From what you say, it could be that her numbers Are creeping back up. High cortisol makes them feel warmer too. There are so many things to remember with this. I'm going to take a guess and say that mildly enlarged should not be obstructing lungs. I think that you would see this if grossly enlarged, and perhaps a bit with moderate, although I'm not positive if that would even press enough.

We know a lot of dogs with cushings, do have breathing issues too, like snoring, etc, however, my guess is that Trixie is panting because her numbers are going up again.

You're doing great Barbara. :) I know it's scary and it certainly doesn't help that she had that gastro episode previously either. That scared the tar out of you and rightly so. It could be that her gastro system will always be more sensitive going forward. If lucky then after awhile it'll settle back down to normal, but it wasn't all that long ago that the gastro thing happened.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
When you pop in to the vet for a copy of Trixie's ultrasound, ask for copies of everything they have. ALL THE TESTS! You never know when you are going to need them! Keep them in a file. In the event that you ever need to see a specialist at a different hospital, take your file with you. That can save you big bucks on unneeded tests! Try to concentrate on how great Trixie is doing. She still feels up to her walks and is still playing. That is great news!:) The rest will get sorted out. You have time.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Thanks everyone--I'm taking deep breaths.
Sharlene, I do notice that Trixie has a much lower tolerance to the heat since Cushings. I have been keeping the a/c very cool for her and it does help.
After last years lengthy gastro episode I am still so surprised that through all of this Cushings and the medication she has had the best poops! (I'm knocking wood!) Ever since the tylan cleared up her clostridium overgrowth she has been great in the poop dept! Maybe she had that overgrowth all along because we had many bouts of bad poops over the years.
She does have the gurgling tummy noises in the evening but it hasn't manifested in anything. The PepcidAC seems to really help with the gas and the noises, I give her a half a tab right before bed. :)

Kathy- I have the acth test copies and the low dex test. The only one I didn't take was the sono...didn't think about the written report of that at the time but yes, would be good to have, even though it's not very current anymore.
Wish I could get another sono now but wow that was extremely expensive. Why don't I have a vet in the family?! :rolleyes:

Patty-we've got thunder storms due tomorrow but earlier we had a pop up storm and Trixie headed right into the kitchen and under the table. It was a short shower and though it got dark we only had rain..no thunder. She hid anyway, for quite awhile even though the storm had passed over in 10 minutes. ;)
Hope little Romeo is all settled in with your others! :p

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara, talk one of your daughters into marrying a vet. Better still, both of them! That way one of them could do pro bono work for all of us! You are not putting them through college for nothing! LOL:D

[Trixie]

Kathy--you read my mind!! haha! :D

[Trish]

HI Barbara - we are all so alert tothose little changes aren't we. Sometimes I think it is like Mother's Intuition... we just know when something is not quite right. It has stood me in good stead so I always listen to those little voices now :) I keep an excel spreadsheet where I enter all that type of stuff so I can see if there are any trends or patterns I need to act on... is what I do in the evenings and only takes a minute so usually do that when I read the forum! Hope that does not sound to Type A hahaha ... hope your weather is not too foul... thought it was meant to be summer there :eek::eek:

[Trixie]

Well Trish if that's type A behavior then I'm guilty too!! :)
I measure Trixie's water intake all day and write the time and total amount as they day goes on...it was her most pronounced symptom so a good gauge for me.
I agree that intuition has to be followed...sometimes you just know...it can't always be explained. Today Trixie had a good day...but now we are having a storm...very common for summer in NY. Hot and humid all day, culminating in evening thunder boomers. Spotty storms, off and on during the evening hours.
Before I had a dog who stresses during the storms and their onset I enjoyed the drama of the weather. The darkness, lightning and thunder...it was fun to watch it brewing out over the city skyline. Now I just feel badly because it makes Trixie so nervous. She's hiding in the bathroom at the moment, but it's not too noisy with thunder so at least she's not shaking! ;)
Funny...she didn't seem to mind it at all when she was younger...at about age 6 she started to react to storms.
Hopefully it will not go on all night! :eek:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

If we weren't type A personalities, we quickly become one once Cushings invades our life.:( Then it's all about meds, what they eat or don't eat, how much water they drink, how much they pee and how often, and what their poop looks like. Every waking moment revolves around this dreadful disease. Our saving grace is each other. That is why there is an angel brigade. ;):)
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Yes Kathy...thank goodness for everyone here. Who else would really get any of this stuff!?
Trixie is having more symptoms now..as I mentioned a bunch of times already.
Starting last Thursday she has been getting 10mg 2x a day instead of the 9mg 2x. I had a whole bottle of 6mg tablets and I had 2mg too, so with that I could make 10mg.
So that's 20mg a day up from 18mg and symptoms are pretty noticeable again. The vet suggested 20 and I wanted to go slower but then last week I started to notice the increase in symptoms so we moved up by 2 mg a day. I wish it had made a difference, but so far it hasn't. :(
It will be time for another acth the last week of June. Til then I'll just have to wait it out I guess. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Well Trixie is certainly being a stubborn little thing about all of this isn't she.;) I know it's frustrating, but she'll get her meds sorted out. It just takes longer for some. Remember, you've had a lot of rainy weather lately. That does make her anxious! Her panting could be associated with that. ;) It could be that her Cushing symptoms only seam worse because of everything else that has been going on. Your daughters just came back home. I'm sure that they are coming and going all the time. Their friends may be in and out, which might be upsetting Trixie. There's a lot happening in your house right now! Just something to consider.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Just put a call into the vet. Trixie's symptoms are back more and more each day. She woke up in the middle of the night panting away..in a pretty cool room. Drank first thing this morning, laying on the floor again, looking for food, drinking a lot, used the puppy pads the last 2 days after a few weeks not needing to go so often. ugh.
I wish I could attribute it all to storms but I know it's not.
I'll see what the vet wants to do.
Of course now I need to walk Trixie but don't want to miss his call! Guess we'll try for a quick around the block and hope I don't miss the call. Can't stand talking to the vet on the cell...too much noise outside and I don't have my notes. At least she doesn't act like she feels too poorly..had a nice long walk as it was cool this morning here. I hate to see all this stuff back again!
I'll fill in once he gets back to me. Hope he calls today. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Big hugs to you Barbara!:) I know that you are worried, frustrated and tired of it all! We all know when our babies are acting quite right and no one can tell us otherwise! It is great to hear that she still up to taking long walks, that is a good sign.:D We will all wait with you for the doc's call. Sharlene can tell us some of her jokes to lighten the mood while we wait. Please post the docs response for those who couldn't make it.:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Of course the vet called when I took the dog out!! :eek: That happens to me all the time! Anyway he left me a message regarding the dose.
Being that Trixie's symptoms are so much more pronounced this last week the vet said we could go from 10mg 2x to 12 mg 2x.
I have my 6mg tablets from the very first prescription and Trixie just had two. I'll watch her carefully...nothing new there...and make sure she has no adverse reaction to the raised dose. I'll talk to him next week and we'll decide when to do the next acth.
I really hope the extra 4mg a day will start to make a difference. Seeing the symptoms come back just reminds me that cortisol is flowing and screwing up her insides and that's what worries me.
A few months ago I would have been so nervous to increase the dose but this time I wanted to move it up and hopefully get back to where we were 2-3 weeks ago when she was doing great.
Tweaking away here...crossing fingers that this will help! :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Okay,
You are diligent and know what to watch out for, so all should be fine.:) Your vet is also very close by, which is reassuring. If you keep going this way, you're sure to use up all those odds and ends of dosages that you have.;) Buddy takes 20 mg. of Trilostane, but only once per day, with breakfast. They all have unique needs, which can make finding the perfect dosage difficult. I hope this change is exactly what you need! Please remember to follow up with your vet to see when he wants to do another ACTH test. It is very important, particularly when the dosage is changed.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Sending encouraging hugs to you and Trixie too, that dose stuff can be so tricky, why can't things just be easier for our little furbabies, I will be praying for that.....take care

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy and Letti,
Don't worry Kathy I know we'll need another acth. I'll speak to the vet tomorrow and see when the next acth should be.
I am certain Trixie needs this increase now...there was such an obvious back track...it was like the Cushing's symptoms just broke right thru the medication.
Yes, Letti...things should be easier for our little pups! :p
Barbara

[Boriss McCall]

Sounds like you are doing a good job. :) I went thru that with Boriss as well. It took as while to get the magic number for him. I still think his evening dose needs to be bumped up. It is a fun balancing act sometimes. I hope you found the magic number this time. ;)

[Trixie]

Thanks Amy. So far Trixie has had 2 rounds of the increased dose...we'll see if it starts to make a difference. I'm hoping it does. :)
Just wondering if you noticed any difference with Boriss when you went from Trilostane to Vetoryl?
I'm still using Trilostane...I had a bunch of 6mg leftover so I'm using them to make up 12mg which she gets 2x a day. When I start to run out of these 6mg I'll need to get Vetoryl 10mg and I still have compounded 2mgs to go with them. Just curious if there was anyone saw anything noticeable between the Trilostane and the Vetoryl.
:)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
You don't have to get Vetoryl 10mg. , Unless you want to of course. Compounded Trilostane is much cheaper. If you needed to give her 20 mg per day, you could get Trilostane 11mg. and 9 mg. You could give her 11 mg in the morning and the 9 mg in the evening. That would add up to 20 mg per day, without having to go name brand. Having said that, maybe Trixie would do better on the Vetoryl. You could try it and see, but expect to pay a lot more.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy, Thanks for the info. I thought the Vetoryl was cheaper...I don't know why I thought that-guess I figured the compounding was more specialized vs. the boxes of Vetoryl already made.
Trixie is now on 24mg a day. Right now I'm using up my 6mgs giving 2 at each dosing. I have about another weeks worth left I think.
I see online an average of about $45 for 30 Vetoryl capsules of 10mg. I'll need 2 boxes for a month so that adds up.
My compounding place was charging a lot more than that for what I've gotten so far. yikes. Maybe because they make these little chicken floavored microtabs-their specialty and "exclusive", so maybe that's why the hefty price tag I've been paying. Meanwhile Trixie will swallow anything wrapped in food so it doesn't really matter about the flavor or the size. It doesn't help that they're located in my neighborhood here in the city where everything costs more. They've been great though and they deliver it right to my doorman. Guess they should deliver it for what they charge.
Once I'm more certain of her dose I'll do my research on finding a cheaper resource. I also buy through Ebates where I also get a discount. I know about Diamondback for compounded Trilostane.
I have no idea what my vet will charge for them but I can bet it won't be a bargain.
Meanwhile Target is going to have pet meds now like WalMart. We don't have a WalMart in the city but we have Target and my Target card gives me 5% off. Maybe they will start to carry the vetoryl.
I was thinking of getting the 10mgs so I can use the 2mgs I already have to make the 12. Wondering if anyone's noticed a difference between the Vetoryl and Trilostane.
B.

[Trixie]

I see Target doesn't have Trilo or Vetoryl listed..they have Lysodren. It says more will be available though. I love Target...I hope they get it eventually. :p
WalMart's Vetoryl starts at $78 for 30 10mgs...that's not so good--I can imagine what my vet will charge!
Dr. Foster and Smith $47.70

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara, target, Walmart and Costco don't carry Trilostane or Vetoryl. It is not approved for human use in the United States, so human pharmacies are not allowed to carry it. At least, that is what they told me. That is why I get my Trilostane from diamondback. Buddy takes 20 mg one time per day. I get 60 pills from diamondback four $31.50. With the shipping and tax, the total ends up to be $40.02. 60 count 20mg. Capsules last two months. So I pay $20 a month for Buddy's Trilostane. Vetoryl would cost me at least triple that! These are basic capsules. There are no special flavors or anything particularly special about them at all.
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Vetoryl is the brand name. That's why it's more expensive. Trilostane is like the generic of Vetoryl. That is why it is cheaper. When it comes to meds, generics are usually much cheaper than the name brands.;)
Kathy

[Trixie]

Yes...I understand generic vs. brand... I just thought compounding specialized doses would cost more but apparently not. :rolleyes:
I'll have to see what works out to be the best deal for me.
I don't need the special flavor tabs...it's just how it came when we had the very first rx back when we started all this. I was so nervous about the whole thing that I didn't question anything or even look into pricing. I'll work it out if we ever get to a dose that we stay with for awhile. :confused:
Meanwhile Trixie's panting a bit and just used the puppy pad...ugh. Hope this dose takes hold and starts to work.
Barbara

[Trish]

Gee how frustrating, but sounds like this dose tweaking is par for the course! Hope Trixie's symptoms settle quick smart with this higher dose. Have a happy Friday! :)

[labblab]

Hi Barbara,

I'm going to go ahead and throw my two cents worth into the Rx mix. ;)

Given the issues you're having with getting Trixie properly regulated, if it were me and I could afford to do so, I would go ahead and buy brandname Vetoryl for this next go-round. Down the road, once you've established the optimal dose for her, then I'd feel more comfortable about switching back to a compounded product. My reason for saying this is because we are aware of at least a couple of fairly recent studies that have found that some samples of compounded trilostane and compounded insulin (from undisclosed pharmacies) did not contain as consistent or effective a dose as the brandname alternatives.

Compounded drugs are not equivalent to generic drugs, in that generics have to conform to all the same regulatory testing as brand name drugs. Right now, compounded drugs do not. We do have many members who are highly satisfied with their compounded trilostane, and there is no question but that it is less expensive which can be critical in situations when brandname Vetoryl is unaffordable. But my general advice is that, if I could afford to pay the cost of Vetoryl initially, I'd want to begin dosing with the brandname product if it was available in the dose that my dog required. Then, as I say, once I'd established the optimal dose and if cost was an issue -- then I'd switch to a compounded product as long as my dog continued to do as well and remained stabilized. Just a couple more thoughts to throw into the mix.

Marianne

[addy]

I'll chime in and agree with Marianne. If you can afford the Vetoryl until she is regulated, I would use it. Not that there are any guarantees, we have always used name brand and I still had a heck of a time with Zoe getting regulated but she always was cropping up with other emergencies that affected her cortisol. It is just once less thing you have to wonder about until she is regulated. If you cannot afford it, that's fine too. I pay $52.50 locally for Vetoryl 10 mgs but I thought Dr. Fosters and Smith had it cheaper last time I checked with free shipping. Hopefully I am remembering correctly.:o

[Trixie]

Thanks Marianne and Addy for addressing the medication...I have been very curious about compounded vs. Vetoryl as far as effectiveness goes.
My own thyroid doctor just put me back on branded Synthroid vs the generic I had been on, and I do feel the difference. Things aren't always equal and for me at least the generic drug I was taking was not up to par.
I will most likely be getting Trixie the Vetoryl on Monday. I will run out of compounded 6mgs next week, she gets two of to make the 12mg which she gets twice a day. I will be able to start her on 10mg Vetoryl and I have compounded 2mgs to make the 12mg.
I'll get the first round from the vet...(I'm sure it will be on the expensive side there but I need to have it by Tuesday) and once we know how she does with it I'll go online and find the best price. I would be thrilled if the Vetoryl makes a difference for Trixie.

I did question the compounded tablets we had as the first batch of 7mgs seemed to keep her symptoms at bay but not the 2nd batch. Could be her, could be the pills?? Who knows. I just want her to get controlled.
I really appreciate this information, it's been on my mind to get some advice on this so thanks!! ;)
Barbara

[Trixie]

Trixie was bumped up to 24mg a day and symptoms are back in full force. She woke up last night at 3am panting, needed to drink and then puddled on a puppy pad. :eek: :(
Even before being on any medication she didn't wake up at night like this. Her belly is bloated and big. So frustrating and worrisome. On Monday we will get the Vetoryl and I am hoping so badly this will make a difference. Maybe our compounded med is somehow not right...or she needs a higher dose again.
3-4 weeks ago we were under control on 14mg! Everything was better!
Now I'm feeling like we are almost back to stage one. I wish I could understand why 24mg of Trilostane is not having much of an effect on her..maybe it holds her for about 5-6 hours.
I know I'm repeating what I already posted but I just had to vent. :(
Barbara

[addy]

Does she seem controlled durring the day? Are the returning symptoms later in the afternoon or evening?

Vent all you want, I can totally relate to having to tweak doses:)

Could she have a UTI?

[Trixie]

Yes Addy, evenings seem to be worse than during the day. She goes for the long morning walk, comes back and has her breakfast and morning dose at 10am. After that dose and all the exercise she seems pretty well controlled. She's been napping now for awhile and pretty relaxed, but she's just heading into the waterbowl. :(
I think a long walk helps...maybe it uses up all that extra energy, but meanwhile it's heating up outside so another walk in the afternoon is probably not going to happen-too hot.
The evenings before the 10pm dose is due are definitely the worst. It wasn't a few weeks ago, ugh but now it is.
Guess we will have to keep tweaking away. If it were just the symptoms--drinking, eating, etc you could deal with that...it's knowing that the symptoms mean all that other stuff is going on-- the liver still not good and who knows what all the cortisol is doing inside.
Today so far she's doing okay..hasn't needed to use the pad and seems pretty restful. Thank goodness for the morning walk! I thought she went in for more water a little while ago but she didn't...so that's good! We just cranked up the a/c to keep her nice and cool. I'm hoping that keeps the panting away.
Thanks for listening Addy...it helps just to write about what's going on. :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
I'm sorry to hear that Trixie still having uncontrolled symptoms. Let's hope that her new meds dosage kicks in quickly. I was thinking about the times that you give Trixie her meds. You think it could possibly help to do them earlier? Maybe slowly taper the time down to 7 or 8 AM / 7or 8 PM? Maybe that could help her with her symptoms in the evening, since that seems to be when she's having the most trouble. Just a thought.;) Enjoy you weekend and give Trixie a belly rub for me.:)
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
I have given thought to dosing times and what works best. I think the best for us is the 10am/10pm schedule. The 1st dose given with her 10am breakfast she has after being in the park.
We're always home at 10pm for the night time dose..(that's how exciting we are :p)
I think it's probably that she needs a higher dose, but of course I don't know that for sure.
This evening she started panting and looking at me for a snack about 30 minutes before the 10pm dose.
I'll have to go over my observations with the vet. Hoping we'll have the Vetoryl on Monday or Tuesday and we'll see if that makes any difference.
Now that she's had her 10pm dose she's resting comfortably...hoping she stays that way overnight. :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Changing Trixie's dosing time was just a suggestion. Naturally, you need to do what works best for all of you. I hope the Vetoryl makes a difference. I am glad to hear that she's resting comfortably for now. I hope you all have a restful night.;)
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy. I hope you and Buddy have a quiet night too. I hope all the pups have a good symptom-less sleep!
We decided I'll go out to my mother's by myself tomorrow. Usually my husband and Trixie also come. It's supposed to be up near 90 which means Trixie can't really get out much there.
Then the begging for food from my mother is always risky as she will give Trixie stuff that she shouldn't have even though we tell her not too. It will be much less stressful for me and better for Trixie to have a quiet day here at home with the rest of the family, and I'll be solo.
I'll catch up on the board on Monday..or late tomorrow. Hope everyone has a nice Sunday with their pups. :)
Barbara

[Tina]

Hi Barbara,
Just getting a bit caught up on the forum and checking in on you and Trixie. Sorry to read that some of her symptoms have increased, I know that is worrisome. I know that feeling of dread every time you hear her at the water bowl, I am the same with Jasper. I wonder if some of Trixie's increased water intake might be due to the heat rather than just Cushings related. I know Jasper has been drinking a bit more over the past couple of weeks, and I am hoping that is all it is rather than being related to his kidney issues. Our pups just aren't able to handle the heat well.

I know that a lot of folks have had to tweak doses several times, I hope you can get Trixie's stable soon. Hope you are having a quiet night and a good weekend. You are doing a great job Barbara. :)

Tina and Jasper

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, sending hugs your way, hope that Trixie gets regulated soon, this disease keeps us busy that's for sure, and nights can be long too...it does help so much to have this forum, otherwise I feel desperately alone...hang in there, we are right beside you in this journey, you are a great Momma:)

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, hope things go well at your mothers today. Sorry you have to do it solo, but I understand why you would think that it is best for Trixie to stay at home. This humidity is just uck!
We had rain all day yesterday but no thunder. Molly was still not impressed with it.
I'd like to get through a weekend without rain and just have some sunshine. Maybe July will be better for that, but then it'll probably be super hot too. Still I'll take it over humid and rain. Molly at least will go out in the heat for a little bit, not long, then she wants back inside. Cool mornings are pretty great though.

Have a good day,
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

Glad to listen any time, hope you have a good day.

I know wicked picket was having some issues in the middle of the night with her Tara and she switched foods and that plus the new dose seemed to set Tara straight. Sometimes it can be how they absorb the meds. Do you give the evening dose with the same food as the morning dose?

It can be a process to get it figured out.:rolleyes:

hugs,

[molly muffin]

Hey Barbara, I see you are back. How did things go with your mom this weekend? Did Trixie and your hubby have some hang out together time?
Hope all is well.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Where are you? We should have a report by now on Miss Trixie. ;)I hope that your mom is doing okay and that your husband had some quality time with Trixie on Sunday.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Hi to everyone--I'm here. Our building has a garden party every year and tonight was the party. I was involved in the set up ...so that's why I wasn't back on the board this afternoon/evening.
Trixie started on 10mgs vetoryl in place of her generic today. There were no changes- good or bad, so a seamless shift so far. She's still getting 2mg trilostane with each 10mg of vetoryl.
She is still drinking a lot again and using the puppy pads. :( Today she drank 30oz of water, so we're getting back up there again. Just hate to see that coming back so much.
She did go for a morning walk in the park and it was very hot and humid so I do have to account for extra water because of that.
So the vet said let's stay on 24mg until the next test which we will probably do in 2 weeks or so.
It was actually a relief for me to have Trixie stay home from the day at my mother's house-though I missed her and my husband's company too. Trixie tends to be hyper there, pants a lot and like I said before the constant begging that goes on makes me crazy. Unless I watch every second I never know what my mother will give her when she's begging at her feet. So I may have her stay home this Sunday too, especially because this weekend is supposed to be very stormy.
That's the update. Wish I could go back 4 weeks when Trixie was almost back to normal. Oh well...we'll move forward and hope we can get this dose tweaked soon. :rolleyes:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
It is great to hear from you. :)You only started the Vetoryl yesterday. I know it's hard to continue to be patient, but it probably needs a little more time than one day to make a difference. ;)At least Trixie hasn't had any negative effects from it, which is great! That garden party sounded fun. Maybe we should have an angel party and have all of us meet somewhere central in the world. Everyone would have to bring there fur babies,of course. ;) I would hate to have to organize that party!:eek: Hoping Trixie's dose get settled soon and you're able to breathe a sigh of relief. You should be getting some kind of discount on those ACTH tests by now! Maybe buy three, get one free! Ask your vet about it!;) :D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--How I wish the acth tests had a bogo deal!! Any deal would do, any little break at the vet would be most welcome...I don't even want to think about the next bill. :eek: It's a little scary... I don't have to explain about that on this board. It's one of the many things we all have in common--vet bills. :(
Yes...trying to be patient. It's the water drinking that gets to me. Her days are really good-long walk, breakfast and then napping.she seems to rest comfortably during the day.. over night is okay too, she's sleeping fine..it's the evenings that aren't so great.
I know there will be a dose that will end up doing the trick...hope we get there soon!
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

Sending prayers and hugs for you and Trixie, just to get our furbabies to have normal days would be so wonderful, hope the new dose does the trick.....here for you!!!

[molly muffin]

Oh a garden party is a lovely idea. That is very cool that your building does one yearly. I can just see you right in there in the mix of things. :) Of course now I'm envisioning those little cucumber sandwiches and it was probably like that at all. LOL I'm sure it was weird being without Trixie at your moms yet, yea, a relief to not have to watch for every little thing too.
Ucky, I see thunderstorm possibilities here. I hope not, molly will be freaking. She's done better with it just raining lately. I guess such a wet spring, it wasn't always thunder and she didn't want to live behind the couch every day. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
How was Trixie today? Any subtle changes today? Yes, vet bills are very scary. :eek: I have spent all of the money (and then some)that I put aside for the Summer months when I don't work, on vet bills. This is going to be a very lean Summer, but I get to be home with Buddy, so it's worth it.;):) This will probably be the last summer that I have him. Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Awww, Kathy...that's sad to think about but I'm so glad you have this whole summer to be with Buddy. I hope he had a good day on the hunt!! :p

Sharlene...did you get some storms? We had threats of thunder all day and then tonight my husband and I had to be out and don't you know when we emerged from the dinner we were attending it was pouring with lightning and thunder! My girls were home with Trixie and of course she took shelter under the kitchen table.:eek: The garden party is only called that because we have it in the garden that's in back of our building. It's mostly a container garden..planters, window boxes, trellises etc...but it's pretty nice for the city! No tea sandwiches..heehee...lots of drink and basic party food--sushi, cheese& crackers, and that kind of stuff. We have a guy on the 3rd floor with a wine business so there was plenty of that! ;) Everyone gets pretty punchy by the time it's dark out. People in New York City actually do know their neighbors..contrary to what you hear. :) It was kind of hot and humid out so I didn't stay very late, I just can't take this sticky heat.
We are not coming out of this awful weather...more hazy, hot, humid and T storms in the forecast..for the next whole week!! :mad:

Thanks for the good wishes Letti! :p

Well...it's possible that today I did see a subtle difference for the better. :D It was a good day for Trixie!! (knock wood!)
30oz of water yesterday and approx. 20-22oz today! That's a noticeable difference! What a relief.
I do careful measuring but I had to estimate when we were in the park, she drank from the bottle I had plus there are doggie water fountains too. She didn't use the puppy pads at all today (yay!) and no panting...well outside in the heat yes, but that's normal--I should say-there was no panting without a good reason. ;)
Hoping for another good day tomorrow...maybe she's coming down to a better level.
Hope all the pups will have a good weekend!!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
We rejoice with each good day!:D Hope today was even better for both of you. Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

We had rain today and thunder this afternoon. Molly seemed okay with the rain, I actually had the slider open so it sounded loud, but she just sort of lounged. Maybe because I was working at home and so busy I didn't have time to really be worried and stressed for her and she could tell. Then when the thunder started, she hung out by my chair till it was over, shaking and scared but as soon as it stopped she laid down on the rug and took a nap.

I hope you guys scrapped by without too much of that stuff today.

Just having a garden in the city is pretty wonderful. :) Sounds like an excellent party. Nice to have a wine owner in the building. One of my hubbys friends is a wine merchant here, imports wine in from all over and he always lets hubs know when something really good is coming in for us to try out.
Oh yea, New York has always seemed friendly to me. When we were cleaning out grandmothers house over in Queens, we stayed in the city, and would go over every morning. Walk down to a local coffee shop and grab some coffee and come back, sit on the stoop and chat with all the neighbors.
Before we'd leave the hotel in the morning, we always stay in the city, we'd stop by a local restaurant and reserve some tiramasu to pick up in the evening. We had gotten to know the chef there and he had the best tiramasu I've ever had. I was sad to here it was no longer in business.

I've always loved New York and had a great time when there and really met lots of nice friendly people. No complaints here.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Fooey, I wasn't even thinking about july 4th coming up in the states. This is our Canada Weekend and yea, lots of fireworks going off all over the place. I have to take Molly out for her last walk before it gets dark, because once it does and the kids and everyone starts doing the fireworks, no way will she go out. :(
Hope your 4th isn't too bad. I'm planning on turning the tv up really loud with something that makes it's own booms to drown out the fireworks.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Hello to my New York doggie Trixie... I love that city, I have been lucky enough to visit a few and NY is way up there as one of my faves, along with New Orleans, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara :) Still have a lot to visit though! Anyway back to Trixie :) So pleased she is having a better day, it can be the littlest of things that put a smile on our face, wheeeeeeeeeeee she drank less so that is worth a firework or two (silent ones so not to scare the scaredeydogs!) Have a good weekend :D xxxx

Ohhh forgot Waikiki, thats a fave too :)

[Trixie]

Hey Trish-I like the same cities as you do..as many others do I'm sure.
Ok everyone....HELP!
For the first time in a long time we have bad poops today. Just as I was thinking how long it's been and how good Trixie's gastro has been doing. :( So we started the Vetoryl this past week...as opposed to the generic Trilostane. The last 2 days her Cushings symptoms have been much better but still not all the way gone.
She has NO other symptoms of overdose. No lethargy, no throwing up, appetite still good, had a long walk without issue. Poops all week were fine, and last night also fine. So..I don't believe this episode is due to the medication, but :eek: now I'm all worried!
I have seen worse poops with Trixie. Since all dogs go on the street here I have been noticing messy clean-ups...in other words maybe something is going around. :confused: At this point I am hoping that's all it is.
Just took her out...(not a normal time for her so I knew it wouldn't be good) and she made a small mess...not a lot but at the end some drops of watery blood. Again-I have seen this with Trixie but I've seen worse blood and worse poops, so I'm upset but not shaking yet.
She did have her morning dose of Vetoryl and now I just gave her a 1/4 tab of metronidazole as that usually helps right away. I also have Tylan but just wanted to get a pill in her without having to give food right now, and the Tylan would have to go on some food. My vet is off today-of course. I figured I'll see how the rest of the day goes. I'll give her plain white rice and maybe a small bit of plain turkey for her supper and see what happens.
My gut feeling is that for right now it's not too bad...I don't like seeing those little drips of watery blood....but her demeanor is telling me she's okay for now at least. ugh. Was hoping so badly we wouldn't have a gastric episode while we were still tweaking the dose. We've never had a summer without diarrhea!! :(
Just when I was feeling like the med was starting to help, now this. :( Any thoughts are welcome!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
I answered your distress call earlier, but I don't know what happened to it?:confused: Well, what a pickle this is! You mentioned that there might be something going around with the other dogs. Have you thought about calling your vet tomorrow and asking about that? You might be able to get some insight that way. SEB really works well for tummy issues, including diarrhea and vomiting. The blood is concerning though. Hopefully others will be by shortly to help us out with this. The good news is that Trixie seems to be feeling pretty well and her Cushing symptoms are better. :) hang in there Barbara, we need to rally the forces! Big hugs,
Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, sorry Trixie is having bad poos, seriously my neighbor thinks I'm crazy watching Simba poo, but geez we have too!!!! I hope the vet figures it out soon....take care, sending hugs!!!!

[Trixie]

haha I know Letti...being on poop patrol is just not understood by everyone is it!?
Trixie seems to be doing ok right now. The metronidazole seems to be helping a great deal already. No more trips outside and tummy gurgling seems to be subsided.
Kathy--I know that bit of blood is always a worry. I will say that Trixie almost always has some blood when she gets diarrhea. I have been through this so many times. This time the blood was very watery and minimal so I will watch and see what happens later--hopefully nothing! :eek:. I have seen it way worse, but still it concerns me so I'm watching...and waiting. She is resting comfortably right now.
I'll report after we do the walk later on. Crossing fingers that this is just a minor tummy issue that will be gone quickly.
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Well hopefully this is a one off that will go away. Sounds like any time that Trixie gets the upset gastro tract that she ends up with diarrhea. Molly does too. Not usually blood though.

However, having said that, stress can cause Irritable bowel syndrome. If you have eliminated that there have been no other changes in diet, etc. then this is a possibility and if so usually clears up, with a bit of help from like the metronidazole or SEB for example.

As long as Trixie is eating, drinking, pooping, playing, etc, then this isn't a case of too much medication.
As long as the diarrhea does clear up, I'd be inclined to say stressed induced. If it continues then there could be something going around and she might need some antibiotics for a bacterial gastro issue.

You could certainly give the vet a call tomorrow, ask if anything is going around that you have noticed messy stools on the sidewalk and see what they say.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

All good advice Sharlene...thank you. We just came from outside. Trixie did not try to do any poops...good sign. I hope I have dodged a bullet.
Do you mean "stress induced" due to emotional/nervous stress or a physical stress of some kind?
She did have this terrible bacterial infection of clostridium last summer. When dogs get an overgrowth of this bacteria the symptoms mimic colitis, and we dealt with the vomiting and bloody diarrhea for awhile last year. It was awful but once we got it eradicated she's been without any gastro problems. It's our first bout of diarrhea in over 9 months.

Trixie came in from outside just now and saw my daughter had a shopping bag...a favorite thing to tear up. So another good sign that she attacked it and tore it up in a 100 pcs! ;)
I am going to give her some sticky white rice now for her supper. She likes it and I always give her rice when this happens. I'll give her another 1/4 tab of the metro before bed. For now it seems to be helping. Crossing my fingers, knocking wood...doing anything in hopes this is nothing. Thanks everyone for the support during the attack of the worries. :eek:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

Sounds like Trixie is doing good. :)

I mean emotional/nervous stress in particular. Highly stressed dogs are prone to Irritable Bowel Syndrome. This was mentioned with Molly at one time as a possibility.

http://www.vetinfo.com/canine-ibs-irritable-bowel-syndrome-in-dogs.html

There are other possibilities to cause IBS (which is different from IBD), but with Trixie, this might be a likely reason.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

hmmm...food for thought Sharlene.
She has not seemed stressed in anyway I can tell (no storms the last couple of days) but it's something I will watch for to see if it coincides with any future tummy trouble.
It's now a bit after 9pm. Trixie had her last poop (which wasn't good) at around 1pm. She had a white rice supper and a tiny bit of her lowfat kibble. So far, so good. She was hungry and ate with her usual gusto. She does really like sticky rice. :p
I remembered that on Thursday Trixie managed to get a gulp of water from a "communal" water dish for dogs that a local restaurant puts out. I am usually very careful to avoid such things for obvious reasons, but I wasn't paying attention and she did get a slurp before I yanked her away.The water actually looked quite clean but you never know who drank before she did. Not saying that is what caused today's problem but I remembered it happened. I do hope this is something along those lines....I hope we're not dealing with something that is a complication from Cushings...or her high liver enzymes. She okay tonight so far.
There seems to always be something to worry and fret about. :(
I'll accompany my husband and Trixie on the last walk tonight and hope things are uneventful in the poop dept.
I've got to get some slippery elm to have on hand...so many recommendations on here and online about it.
Trixie will stay home with my husband tomorrow while I go to care for my mother. Hope everyone has a nice Sunday...will catch up on the board Monday. :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
I am so sorry that you have to go to your moms by yourself, but I totally understand your reason for leaving Trixie home. SEB helped Buddy tremendously. It not only settled his stomach, it also eliminated the need for Benadryl for his allergies. They dried up also. I didn't expect that to happen! He has been on Benadryl for years, which means he was drugged all the time! I eliminated the need for Pepcid which wasn't working, and Benadryl with one swoop of the SEB. I wish I would've discovered it sooner!!! I know that Trixie is great hands, so I'm not worried about her. Now please take care of yourself! Big hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy. It's kind of stressful having Trixie there at my mothers anyway even though my mother loves to see her. I also worry like crazy about pills being dropped like you mentioned...though we give my mother her meds with applesauce now and that's safe because they stay put. The pill thing freaks me out too! But the food falling is a little less controllable and the last thing I need now is for Trixie to get some buttery thing that my mother drops--or worse gives willingly to her!! :eek:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hopefully things clear up for Trixie soon. Doesn't really sound like a complication from cushings.

Diarrhea is one of those things that is the first to show up, if anything goes off wack with them.

Molly had some today, but it was a long walk and as we talked about on another thread, those long walks just seem to loosen Everything up. She was definitely to all liquid poop by the time we got home, with a messy bum to top things off. I expect the stools will be fine tomorrow. We'll see

Hope things go well at your mom's tomorrow.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara, hope things went well at your mom's and with hubby and Trixie at home.

This was so funny, I had to share with you. This morning I was having my coffee out on the front patio and a lady goes walking by on the other side of the street with a cute little schnauzer. It's just trotting along fine, and then I noticed that she (the lady) had stopped walking, so I looked over and the schnauzer had decided to take a bit of a break in the neighbors grass. Just laying down, not inclined to move at all. Then out of nowhere jumps up and runs back and forth just as fast as he/she could go about 10 times, running, jumping, barking and have a real good time, playing in the yard. Then after done playing, continued on up the sidewalk at a good clip. It was absolutely the most hilarious thing to watch.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

awww...Sharlene, that schnauzer sounds like a youngster! Trixie will sometimes still do that kind of crazy zipping around inside after a bath! Always makes me feel better when I see her playful side still there at age 9!
So...all is going great! The bad tummy was over by Saturday night. Perhaps something she ate that I didn't see?? She is not a dog to eat something gross off the street...it can happen though. At night it's not always easy to see...who knows?
All I do know was on Sunday morning I dropped Trixie and my husband off at the park when I was on my way out to my mother's and I got a text from husband about 10 minutes later..."excellent poops" and then a little later on "more excellent poops". haha. He's good on poop patrol too. So the gastro upset was over by Sunday morning. Today was also a "good poop" day too.
Also good news that after a week on 24mg (10mg Vetoryl 2mg trilostane 2x a day) symptoms have decreased again. Drinking almost normal, no puppy pad peeing, no panting.....oh what a relief!
Now...will it stay? :confused: I will schedule an acth for the end of next week.

Also that bloated belly which seemed really bad in the evening is much better too. Now it would be really good if that 2123 alkp would start to come down. Hoping for that big time! :p Thunder storms and crazy rain today...luckily Trixie had a long time off leash before it all started...she's now hiding under the kitchen table. Not happy with this stormy day~! :(
:) Hoping all the pups are feeling good!
Barbara

[molly muffin]

That's great Barbara!! Wow, yea for hubby! Love those texts from him while on poop patrol. It had me laughing out loud. :)

Yep, sounds like a one off on the poop issue and yay for the symptoms getting better too.
Give it some time and then you can do another blood panel to see where those enzymes are at. I remember I was a bit discouraged when I retested in December and didn't see the numbers come down as much as I wanted. Now they are starting to come down, but only after Molly had been on the hepato support for quite awhile. I can't remember when I started her, last August? something like that. I'd have to go back to look but it's only the last test in May or june that I was happier with the results, so don't get discouraged if they aren't down where you are happier with. Although since Trixie is on trilostane they might come down faster.

You are doing really great though!!

pffttt on the storms. They need to go away already. I'm expecting more here this week and would be much happier if they'd just go around us completely.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Wow, Barbara, this is a great report!! :) :)

All fingers and paws crossed that you'll just continue to see more improvement.

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Your hubby must be quite a guy to text poop reports! You gotta love that! :D I'm thrilled to hear that she's doing so well on her new dosage. It is great news all around except for those dang storms!:o We could certainly use some of that rain here, but then no one would know how to drive in it! LOL xxxxxxxx
Kathy

[Trixie]

Thanks Marianne and Kathy...
I am so thankful for some noticeable results. I can only hope it continues.
So funny about bad driving during a rare So. Cal rain! :D
Doesn't matter the weather here for bad driving....they're out in every condition!! :D
Barbara

[Trish]

Yay for family members that appreciate the necessity of poop patrol, my family think I am crazy checking dog poop with such interest! Your hubby is a gem :)

Yay again, for Trixie's symptoms settling again!! So cool to hear they are better, this drug tweaking is so stressful when it takes a while to find that magic dose that holds everything at bay, but sounds like you are getting closer, fingers crossed for next weeks acth! :) xxxxx

[Trixie]

Thanks Trish...my husband is a gem! :D He is mad crazy for Trixie. When he comes home she goes positively nuts!! She sees him come in the door and she runs to her toys and starts grabbing them and shaking them up. She can't contain her excitement. He sits on the couch and she jumps up and licks his face, runs back to the toys, shakes a few toys, then back to the couch, licks his face :D....well you get the idea!! The routine goes on for a bit...and she does that every evening when he comes in from work!
So...yeah..he'll do anything for that dog...even be an expert poop checker! ;) My kids think we are both crazy!! I tell them we checked their poop like that too!!! hahahaha! :D Then they cover their ears in disgust! haha. I tell them they'll do the same for their kids and pets one day too. :p

Can't believe it but Trixie is drinking normally yesterday and so far today too! I am so grateful that she seems to be without symptoms for a few days now. Yay. Now if only these thunder storms would quit! :rolleyes:

Barbara

[molly muffin]

Thats great Barbara that Trixie is having no symptoms. Hopefully this is the golden dose for her.

Oh I know that bond. Molly and My husband have it. It's really fun to watch. Molly starts crying as soon as she hears his car drive up. He cannot get inside the house fast enough for her. :)

Aren't they adorable.
lol
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Great news Barbara! I'm thrilled that Trixie is doing so well.:D I'm in shock mode right now, but will send a longer message when I'm up to it. Big hugsxxxxx

[Trixie]

Of course you are in shock Kathy...no need to explain a thing! You're sweet to check in and post at all feeling as you do...I appreciate it. Always glad to see your post on my thread!

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
I know that taking care of your mother is hard. Please remember to take care of you too! ;) Remember, you have three girls counting on you. Big hugs,

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy...I try and keep it together on all fronts. Just back from my mother's house..her mind continues to diminish and it's hard to see that. She gets really "off" in the evening as many of the elderly do...that "sundowning" thing...not fun.

Now I am completely discouraged though...
Trixie had about 4-5 really good days this last week on the new dosage and also the switch to using the Vetoryl from the generic compounded Trilostane.
Yesterday and today the drinking is creeping back up again after actual normal drinking, panting is starting back up too. I can just tell that cortisol is taking over again. ugh.ugh.ugh. I always think after 4 good days that she's better and the medication is working..only to see soon after that it's not.
What's going on? :( Has it happened this same way for others? :confused:
It's like the dose goes up, she reacts with a decrease in symptoms and after just a few days cortisol seems to break through the dose and the drinking just starts back up, belly gets hard and bloated too.
Going to watch her closely tomorrow. Of course my vet is not in until Monday.
It's so frustrating! Why does it work well for a few days and then stop? If it was strong enough to successfully control for 4 days how does it just stop controlling. Does she begin to make that much more cortisol than from a day or two earlier?
There were no firecracker or fireworks noises at all for her today and no thunder storms either! Such a welcome change from our usual July4th! Guess the firecracker throwing kids by my mother weren't around or outgrew firecrackers...and this year we felt only a couple booms from the big Macy's show and Trixie just slept, she wasn't bothered by a thing. So I can't even blame the panting on July 4th fireworks! :mad:

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

:pHi Barbara,
I'm glad that fireworks and firecrackers were not an issue for Trixie. That is a good thing. :) They have been crazy loud here. It is really interesting that there are so many when they are illegal in California. :confused:Only the publics displays are legal. Buddy would've been terrified out of his mind and we would've spent the night in the bathroom with the fan and radio on. I really do miss that!
I am sorry to hear that Trixie's symptoms are creeping back up again. I don't know why it occurs but it does happen that some of our pups take a long time to get regulated. I know it is nerve-racking and expensive. Buddy ended up with the perfect dosage on his very first try. Look how well that worked out for us!:( You mentioned that Trixie's excessive drinking, panting and bloated tummy has come back. How is she feeling otherwise? Is she still taking her long walks in the morning, or has the rain stopped you. How about eating and pooping. Has that been normal? Checking in with your vet on Monday is a good idea particularly since you are worried. So sorry. Hugs for you and a belly rub for Miss Trixie.

[Trish]

Hi Barbara
I don't know the answer to your question about recurring symptoms, but I do know many on here have had to keep tweaking the dose until you finally hit the magic number. So frustrating for you, she must be due a test next week to check ACTH from the latest dose change so I guess you just have to keep on going till Trixie gets there. How is she doing today?:)xx

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy & Trish,
Trixie was definitely better today. Compared to yesterday her drinking was less and not so much panting. I'm going to keep watching. I do know that so far we have not experienced any signs of too much medication and I suppose that is good. No way her levels have gotten too low at this point. Absolutely no sign of that since we started.

I am constantly watching this dog...it's crazy sometimes but I can't help myself. I'm always going through a check list for myself.
Her appetite, poops, energy and demeanor are all fine so I guess that's good. I suppose everyday brings different levels of cortisol that need controlling so I should expect fluctuations here and there.
We are also having a heat wave (it's 9pm and 90 degrees outside!) so drinking after she comes in from the heat is normal. When she's panting inside and the a/c is keeping things delightfully cool...that's when I worry. Yesterday we had her at my mothers house and she always seems worse there for unknown reasons. Drank like crazy, panted, was breathing rapidly even when she was resting, needed to go out every hour, ugh it was awful. So perhaps I should chalk up the bad day to being there and not home. :confused: Who knows.

Her 2nd dose of the day is due in a half hour...she's napping on the floor--very relaxed, not too bloated tonight so I guess things are good- right? I think so...sometimes before the dose she starts panting and drinking etc...tonight we're calm. That's a relief for sure!
Boy this disease really has me obsessed with every move she makes!! :rolleyes: ugh...she just got up and started in panting..not too much though maybe she's just ready for the nighttime walk. Wouldn't be easier if these dogs would just talk already and let us know how they really feel so we didn't have to guess all the time!!!!!
:D :confused: :D
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I am so glad that Trixie is doing so much better today. Remember you can't really judge when they're away from home, because they are always excited and their routine is off kilter. So sorry about the yucky heat. It gets hot here during the the day, but it's a dry heat and always cools down in the evening to sleep. I took buddy with me to Pennsylvania one summer to visit a friend. The humidity was horrible there! I don't know how you can stand it.:eek: Trixie's doing so well and you will get her dosage regulated eventually. Big hugs to you both and a sly smile for that wonderful hubby who texts poop reports. I so love that!

[Trish]

Oh that must have been it, the change in environment! Sounds like she is better today though so we will take that!! I think we all have a little OCDog disorder (OK I just made that up!) but I bet there is something like that in the psych manuals :)

Well I have nearly got all my housework done for the weekend, last load of laundry is in! Phew that has been a marathon, lucky the machine has not blown up with all those blankets!! My sister always comes over on Sunday to do her laundry as her machine HAS blown up and she is too short of money at the moment to get a new one, so wanted to get all mine out the way today :)

Only a few hours of this lovely sunshine left so best I take Flynn for his walk, he really is giving me the evils today, not only has he no plush toys to chew up but now he has NO blankets to laze about on, no bed to sleep in and no comfy pads on the floor as they are all out flapping and drying on the line!! So he has retired to the spare bedroom (that's your room Kathy!) to sulk on the bed in there :) See you all later tonight if anyone is up!! xxxxxxx

[Trixie]

Well Trish I'm glad you got all that laundry done and now you can enjoy the weekend without that chore hanging over your head. :D Hope Flynn's blankets and bed are almost dry so he can get happy and comfy!
Well...Trixie came in from outside and drank 5oz of water. That brings today's total up to 22oz...down from yesterday but still up from the start of the week when she seemed better. Right now lying on the floor, breathing rapidly and slightly bloated belly. (that would be Trixie, not me...hahaha). So hard to know if she's just not right or the heat is getting to her,we were out for a walk and it's still so hot. It's very cool inside though...keeping the a/c on frozen like this is going to inflate the electric bill like crazy!

I'll just keep watching her symptoms the next few days and see how she does. I'm trying to convince my husband to stay home with her on Sunday when I have to go back to my mothers. We'll see how she fares tomorrow and decide.
Kathy- I hate when the weather is like this! I like mild with cool evenings, which we get often but not lately! :mad: It's an early heat wave for us and the 90's with humidity are in the forecast for the next 5 days! I'm hoping for some rogue cold front to get here from Canada in the near future!! ;)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Remember that as their cortisol comes down, any kind of excitement, travel, going to your moms, etc, could make her feel a bit anxious (that cortisol buffer that she is use to isn't as large). It's really hard to not interpret everything they do, how much they drink, pant, etc. But sometimes, it's just them being them and not anything particularly off.
Every dog is different and till you have that magic dosage that keeps her cortisol just where you want it, then you are probably going to worry, but as long as she isn't experiencing any negative side effects I wouldn't worry too much. The numbers will tell the story of how this dosage is working.

Kim could say more readily than I as she knows Schnauzers very well, but I think they might be tougher to find that magic dose with and need more tweaking. After all, she used Lysodren and probably had one of the longest loads ever Heard of. 4 months compared to normally a few days. They just have tough little bodies that seem to adapt to whatever you give them and then you have to adjust. Maybe that is what is going on with Trixie too, only with Trilostane. They are a real bugger too with diabetes, finding the right insulin dose. (read this on another thread).

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Thanks for the wise words Sharlene. It's certainly a roller coaster with the medication. That darn water drinking...so much on Wednesday and Thursday that her little schnauzer beard was just damp all the time...had to give her face a hot water and baby bath rinse because she smelled like an old wet towel! :( yuck. She hated that wash down too.
Schnauzers are tough bodied little pups, and many can be on the hyper side to begin with! :p

Hope you have a nice weekend!
Barbara

[Fellasmom]

Hi Barbara
Saw you online here posting and fig I would pop in to say hello.Sorry to hear about the ups/downs of trying to adjust Trixie's medication.Hope you enjoyed your 4th.I worked but my hospital has one of the best views of Boston so I was able to view the fireworks from our window and then watched NYC on TV.I see we are having the same weather-90's humid without an end in sight!!Ugghhh...I'm so sick of the AC and can't wait for a nice breeze!!Tough on the dogs too as it is really so hot for them and mine don't feel like walking much in this heat.How is Trixie doing dealing with the heat wave?
Patty

[Budsters Mom]

Keep your chin up Barbara. You will get Trixie's dose figured out soon, I'm sure. She's still doing well as far as activity level and energy, right? Xxxxxx

[Trixie]

Ugh, Patty the heatwave is awful isn't it??..Trixie does ok because she hasn't been out in it too much. We took her for her off leash walk at 7:45 this morning. It was already 76 which isn't bad but that humidity makes it feel unbearable! She was fine in the park and enjoyed her walk...even ran up a big hill when we first got there. I try and keep her walking in the shade as much as possible, when the sun hits you it's so, so hot!! Sounds like you had a great vantage point for the Boston fireworks show!! Lucky you--I bet they were beautiful!

Kathy...I try to not let every little thing get to me but I'm not very successful...I just feel like all I do is worry...the dog and all the other issues of life. Sick of always feeling worried :rolleyes:
So yes, Trixie's energy is pretty good. Everything is hard to tell because of the heat...drinking and panting are both up-but it's crazy hot outside!! So not sure how much is Cushings vs. heatwave!
Most of the time I think she's doing ok, but then I have my doubts. So, today I really wanted to get her groomed because her fur grew in so fast and it's sooooo hot! Looking at her furry body makes me feel hotter! They were nice and squeezed her in. I also asked that since she has a "health issue" that they do her asap and not let her sit in the cage waiting. So great...she was there only about 90 minutes which is pretty quick, and she looks all sleek and clean.

Now for the last hour or so she is licking her right leg, I keep stopping her but then she starts again...something is irritating her... I don't know if the groomer gave her some kind of razor burn...though I don't think they use the electric razor on her legs or if the shampoo bothered her??..it never has before....whatever it is it's driving me crazy that she's licking the leg, and now that's worrying me too.
I just put aloe gel on it and a cotton sock so she can't get at it. Will see if that helps. I don't want her licking it-whatever it is- all up and making it worse.
Plus I'm off to my mother's again tomorrow. Making Trixie stay back home with my husband-and they both really like to come with me. I just can't have another day out there with Trixie like we had July 4th. Trixie was hyper and drinking like crazy...begging for food...etc...
It's too hot for her to go outside and when we're out at my mother's she always wants to go outside. So anyway..I hope the girls and my husband will keep a careful eye on the licking. I am hoping by morning whatever is bothering her leg will be over! I don't see anything noticeable, maybe a tiny bit pinker under her fur..but no cuts or sores there...so who knows what it's about. It's always something isn't it!?! :confused:
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Remember to take lots of deep breaths. It is all going to be okay. It is possible that whatever is bothering Trixie's leg was there before, but now that she's been groomed it's easier for her to get to it. It is also possible that the groomer scratched her a little bit. That happened to Buddy on his first groom. They actually nicked him.:( I groomed him myself from then on. It is awesome that her hair is growing to where she needs a buzz again. Cushing pups growing hair is always a cause for celebration! Go Trixie!:D:D

[Trish]

Poor Trixie, so irritating for them when they have the itchies or something annoying them like that. Not helped by that hot weather your having either. Don't envy you that! Hope it goes well with your visit to your Mom tomorrow Barbara and Trixie behaves herself fin your absence! xx

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
What is going on with Trixie? Did her itchies settle? Big hugs,

[Trixie]

Just call me a worry wart :rolleyes:...got myself all worked up about the leg licking..but yeah, guess what??...not an issue anymore. :p Who knows what it was all about and I have no idea what got me so worked up about it. I suppose I am always trying to avoid an extra vet bill so I don't want her to have anything else to deal with like some kind of skin irritation. I was up most of Saturday night watching her at the end of the bed to see if she was awake and licking. She wasn't!! :rolleyes: Just I was up...like a some kind of nut! I was never really this kind of crazy before the Cushings...now I just feel like every little thing with Trixie can be a big issue and when I see something as little as licking her leg too much it sends me into a frenzy of worry. I know, I've got to stop that.

So...everything seems okay. Every time I write that things are good they end up not being good right after. :mad:
So...I won't go overboard but hey, things with Trixie are good. :D Vetoryl dose seems to be holding that bad stuff at bay. Crossing fingers this stays now...at least for a bit!! Please!! Going to schedule the acth for next Monday.
Trixie had an early morning walk off leash in the park before the heat got really bad. She loves being in that park. We mostly walked in the shade and there was a little breeze, it was actually bearable. Unlike right now at 4pm it's sweltering outside! It's so much better with Trixie's recent grooming- now I don't feel so hot when I look at her. heehee :D. I'm certain she feels cooler too!
It was probably good for me to be away yesterday because when everyone else is with Trixie they are easy going and don't worry so much. I think Trixie senses my worry when I get really bad... she was probably happy to be with my husband and girls and no one fretting over her.

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara, worrying and fretting just goes with the territory of being a mom. You can't escape it, so you might as well roll with it and give yourself a break!:D I'm glad to see that Trixie's scratch had healed and the Vetoryl seems to be helping. Keep the good news coming!:D xxxxxxx

[Trish]

HI Barbara
When you figure out how to stop worrying about every little thing please let me know how to do it, because I bet a bunch of us want the answer to that one too! I can turn a little mouth ulcer into leukemia or diarrhea into a bowel tumour faster than Flynn can make it to the fridge if I happen to open it... it does my head in too so know you are in the company of all of us with your worries! That's why it is so good to come on here and share it with us to get more rational theories from all the lovelies here which helps keep the galloping mind in check!! Enjoy those walks, they sound lovely! xxxx

[molly muffin]

I agree Barbara. Everyone of us worries and frets. Just when you think you don't have to, they'll do something, like drink a bunch of water and off you go in your head to some place scary. It's hard not to do that.
Find that center if you can between, crazy with worry and calm everything is great. :) It helps if you know that you are freaking. Then you can say to yourself "it's a boobie, not a tumor" (something I learned from Leslie) :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and prayer for you Barbara and for Trixie too, oh yes I'm such a worry wart, I think most of us are!!

[Trish]

I think Flynn is the same, he goes to Mum and Dads and they just let him be, no supervising poop patrol etc then Mum comes back and wants to know what exactly what has been happening all day! I think he enjoys the peace!! So pleased to hear Trixie is good, we need to read good stories on here this week!!! YAY!!

[Trixie]

Yes...Trish..too many sad stories this week. Feeling for everyone who is coping with a loss or with a dog who is struggling.

Trixie is good. I always judge by water intake...me with my little measuring cup! Water consumption is down...yay.
Trixie is so funny. I guess because she gets her pills with food she knows the schedule. The breakfast dose is her usual breakfast time so I'm used to her coming into the kitchen at 10am...but at night she pops her head up right at 10pm and stares me down! I'm glad she reminds me because often I am dozing on the couch. Then I ask her-are you ready for pills?? Then she trots into the kitchen.
What a foodie she is!! No different from anyone else in this house!! :D
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Yay for Trixie the foodie! :) Nothing wrong with that. Molly is a little alarm clock too. She knows when it's time to eat and time for her to go for her walks and she isn't shy about letting you know too. LOL If it's time, she'll scratch at the door if if I am napping, she'll come and sneeze at me to wake me up. Well, it starts out as huffing and puffing, then turns into a sneeze. LOL Or a bonk on the hand with her head. Whatever works. LOL

Aren't they such funny little ones.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Boriss McCall]

That is so funny.. Boriss does the SAME thing to me. He is sitting in the kitchen every morning at 7 waiting for his pill & the same thing in the evening. I think he loves the taste of his pill pockets. Makes things a lot easier... :)

[molly muffin]

Sheez, I wish molly liked the pill pockets. Well, she does, but she eats that and spits the pill out. Brat!

I've taken to making a ball of wet food around it, just a little bit and then she'll eat it if she sees that I have another bit of food in my hand to give her. Oinker. LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Boriss McCall]

Molly is too smart for her own good. :p Boriss likes the pill pockets. I have to switch up the flavors when he gets tired of them.

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy loved Pill pockets too! He always thought that he was getting a special treat! All I had to do was yell "pill time" and he would come running! :o There is nothing wrong with being a foodie Barbara. Life is so much more enjoyable that way! Good for Trixie for figuring that out!:D I am thrilled that she's continuing to do well. Xxxxx

[Trixie]

Trixie was so-so with the pill pockets. I thought they were kind of big sized. I was always afraid she wouldn't swallow it whole. I make a little cylinder of dog food and stick the capsule in. She swallows it whole...works like a charm.

It's almost midnight and 85 degrees outside and still 70% humidity-UGH. Big thunder storms for tomorrow...they missed us today (but for one big down pour), but all around the area. I'm so ready for this weather to blow on out of here!!! Even the plain down pour of rain had Trixie taking cover under the kitchen table. :eek:

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
Pill pockets are the consistency of play dough. I never gave Buddy a whole one with his pills. I tore off a little piece of one, just enough to cover his pill, and fed them that way. One pill pocket would last a couple of days. Not only was it cheaper, Buddy was happy. I used the allergy formula for him, "Duck and Pea". They cover pills well without feeding excess food. You are doing what works for Trixie, so that's great!:) I feel bad for Trixie when she runs for cover from those evil storms. Not only that, but she misses her walk at the park:o xxxxx

[Trixie]

Why didn't I ever think of that Kathy? The pill pockets are easily molded-you're right, could have made a custom size without trouble. The duck and pea is what I got when I had them..boy don't they smell awful!? Oh well..now Trixie's used to getting some canned food bites at pill time now.
It's just about time for her denamarin and pepcid a/c so she'll get a little midnight snack before she gets up on the bed.
I hope we don't have to miss the morning walk. Trixie walked both ways yesterday and today..(no cab). It was hot but not too sunny when we left this morning and she had plenty of energy. May be stormy first thing tomorrow..but I'm hoping there will be time for the park before the weather turns. Trixie just seems to need that big chunk of exercise in the mornings. We'll see if the skies cooperate! ;)

Barbara

[Trixie]

ok...darn it!! We had about a week of almost normal drinking and very normal peeing...(not too much color though) no panting, bloated belly gone away and now today...drinking starting back up and Trixie used the puppy pad twice after not using them for over a week.
I want to cry....it's just so discouraging and starts the worry going again. Why does the dose hold for 7 days and then doesn't control anymore? Drinking is not terrible yet but, its up now 2 days in a row from what it was.... it's like here we go again.
I was going to do an acth next week....if I see her symptoms creeping back then shouldn't I wait?? If I know she's still not controlled I feel like it's a waste of money. Shouldn't I wait and see her symptoms well controlled for over 2 weeks before we test? Or do we need to see the number and then we can judge better what to do? I can't afford to do one now and then another in 2 weeks.
Meanwhile she seems so good....playful, good poops, so far today no panting inside...the a/c is blasting so she better not start panting! Ugh. I guess I'm going to call the vet and see what he says. Maybe Trixie needs to be on 30mg a day. Right now we're on 24mg. Was hoping it was the magic number but maybe it's not. :( :( :(

Barbara

[Trixie]

I'll update my own fretting post. So...Trixie did use the puppy pad last night...and then two times today...and the drinking was up a little last night and today....but it's not crazy.
I put a call into the vet...he was already gone and is off tomorrow..so I left a message for him to call me so we can decide about when the next acth test should be.
Maybe it's good he was not there and I can observe Trixie tomorrow and over the weekend. She's pretty good tonight...no panting and she hasn't needed to use the pad.
Maybe I jumped the gun thinking symptoms were back up...maybe they are creeping slowly or it was just an "off" 24 hours....I'll be watching her. Hoping for the best! :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Chin up Barbara.;) You'll make it. You really will!:) Well, drinking and peeing is up again, but Trixie still feels well otherwise, right? I know you're frustrated, but it will come. It really will!:)

Barbara, you will get a kick out of this. I dictated into my iPad about drinking and peeing being up again, and auto correct typed, "Penis is stuck again". ROFL :D:D Hilarious! That should make you smile! Big hugs to you and a belly rub for Trixie.

[molly muffin]

Well it made me smile and laugh out loud! Those auto corrects, they are a hoot!!

I'd watch Trixie and see how she does over the next few days, if this is consistent or not. And don't over think it too much. Strange that the water isn't up too much, but she is using the pee pad. When was her last urinalysis done? Is she very dilute? Wondering if maybe a kidney check wouldn't be worth while. Course I always over worry the kidney issue as that is molly's arch enemy. So I could be projecting. LOL

Hey, we got some cooler weather, with low humidity finally today!! Whoo hoo, put on a light jacket tonight when I took molly out. Course it'll be back this weekend, but the couple days break is nice. (that north wind is my friend in the summer and MY arch enemy in the winter)

Hang in there!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

haha...Kathy...that is funny--yes it does make me smile! :D Trixie does seem to be fine. I'm too sensitive to everything she does I guess...I'm going to observe and try my best to not freak out all the time. :eek:
Thanks for the funny auto correct! :D
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs Barbara, so hard not to freak out, we all understand...and belly rubs for Trixie!!

[Trixie]

Sharlene,
Her urine is still pretty dilute and I was wondering about it and when I might see improvement. There is a little color in the mornings, but mostly dilute. Would there be any other noticeable symptoms of kidney trouble that I would see besides dilute urine?
She goes out at night between 10-11pm and holds fine through the night until the morning about 8-8:15am if that says anything.
I was surprised to see that she used the pad at all and of course right away it got my nerves going.
Tonight she was out around 5:30 and just again at 10:30. Of course now she's panting but she did just come in from the heat.
Glad to hear it's cooling down by you...hope that cooler, dryer air makes it's way to here! ;)
As always thanks for you input!!
Barbara

[Trixie]

Thanks Letti. ;) At least I know everyone here really does understand because no one else really does!! Thank goodness for this board and everyone on it!! :)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Usually the first thing I notice is if she has accidents between her regular times out. Then I have to evaluate whether she was able to get it all out when she was outside. Molly is a marker, so she has to be 2 - 3 times at least around 10pm, then go out in the morning around 8am and pee like 6 or more. She also goes out around 5pm. Not having enough pee stops, fright, something different going on in the house (attitude peeing) I can rule out. So if none of that is factors then I usually take in a urine specimen from first thing in the morning and get it checked. If I think a UTI is possible I will often ask for a culture.
That is what I use to evaluate. I do it mainly because molly has a history of crystals and that can become stones and then we have the UTI's come into play with that. She's had this for years so it's why I am a bit more sensitive to the kidney stuff.
If Trixie is having accidents in between times when normally she doesn't, then I'd think about getting it checked out. Remember that hand in hand with drinking is eating. Is Trixie acting like she is starving again? Summers are always hard for cushings dogs. It's just so hard for them to regulate with the cortisol. Molly pants sometimes too in the evenings. What I watch for is, whether or not, she is able to go to sleep and rest, without constantly panting. Panting is like a dogs way of sweating.
hugs, sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Thanks for the info Sharlene...Trixie is a marker too!! When we go to the park in the morning she pees all over the entire time we're out...and then on the way home too, until she basically down to a few drops and she makes sure to use it all up leaving all her messages behind her.
If she has her usual morning walk with all her marking --we get in around 9:15 and then she doesn't usually need to go again until 4-5pm.
This morning we didn't do such a long walk as a storm was brewing. She still did plenty of peeing and marking...but maybe not as much as usual? Then she used the pad at a time she usually wouldn't...that's what got my antenna up!
So, I'll watch tomorrow, and over the weekend and talk to the vet on Monday. Maybe it's time for the urine culture.
The heat has made it very hard indeed...waiting for it to end, but just heard the weatherman say heat wave starts again Monday with a few days in the 90's forecast. I didn't know it ended yet!! :eek: UGH.
Thank goodness for the a/c!

Barbara ;)

[molly muffin]

When you are walking her, just make sure that she gets down to where she is dripping drops only. That means her bladder is basically empty. I think it was John who said that these dogs are amazing mathematicians and know just how much they need to leave to get the most messages out. Cracked me up!

But it could be if she didn't get as long of a walk, that she didn't ..um..sparse it all out. LOL They get use to having x long of a walk and peeing y number of times (god, now algebra, we are soooo screwed!!) If that doesn't happen, then their percentage are off.
That's it, when they hit geometry I'm just burying my head in the sand.

Anyway, just keep an eye on that and see if it is making a difference on shorter or longer walk days.
hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Yes..I'll be watching. We call it "pee mail"...good to the last drop. :D :D

Barbara

[Trixie]

Little by little each day Trixie's water intake creeping right back up again...last week drinking 16-19oz and today we are up to 28oz and the night is not yet over.
More peeing and she's hungry, (ready to eat at any time), but she's energetic with normal demeanor. It's still hot and humid so that's not helping a bit. Next week even hotter! :eek:
Hopefully I will hear from the vet on Monday. I'm still unsure if it pays to do a acth test this week if she's not yet controlled.
I'm not going to have her come to my mother's tomorrow...she'll stay with my husband, it's better for here her at home. She's too hyper at my mother's and that will only make things worse.
Trixie is on 12mg twice a day to make 24mg...maybe she needs to be at 30mg? That would only be 3mg more at each dose. We've been inching along all these months and every increase seems to get her controlled for only a week or so and then the progress ends and slowly starts to reverse.
I think I understand how the medication works (maybe not fully) but I don't understand how it works for a week and then doesn't. Since it's a day to day medication...circulates and leaves the system in however many hours, how does it work well one day and then not the next?
I know I keep asking the same question each time this happens, but I just can't understand why it works and then stops. :mad:
No internet while caring for my mother tomorrow :(...so I'll catch up with y'all on Monday...or maybe late tomorrow. ;)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

Her numbers never came down to a controlled level, so maybe it never really came down enough to Keep her controlled? Although it does seems so weird that it creeps back up after every week or so. Drat on that. I know she had an ultrasound, did you ever go pick up a copy of that? If not, can you do so next week?
Have a good day with your mom tomorrow. We'll miss you, we always do on Sundays LOL
See ya on Monday. Don't worry, it will get figured out. Has the vet said anything about why he thinks it comes back up?
heading for nighty night!

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry Barbara. I know that you terribly frustrated. Trixie is just a stubborn little vixen. I wonder who she gets that from?:D I know that the ACTH tests are beyond expensive at this point and Trixie has had soooo many, but that may be the only way to see exactly where's she's at for now. Yes, give the vet a call and see what he thinks. Try not to worry about Trixie while you're gone tomorrow and just do what you need to for your mom. Your hubby does a great job, remember he texts poop reports. He's quite a guy in my eyes!:)
Big hugs,

[Harley PoMMom]

So sorry to hear that Trixie's symptoms have increased. Regarding the Trilostane; sometimes, for reasons unknown, when a dog is on a compounding form of Trilostane it just doesn't work quite the way we would hope, and switching to brand name Vetoryl should be considered.

I still believe an ACTH stim test should be done and if the results show that her cortisol has increased than upping her dose and switching to the brand name, Vetoryl, could be an option.

Love and hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

Hello:
I read some of your post and wanted to chime in. Tipper was on a split dose also, and she was not controlled on it so I had to switch her to one time in the morning of 30 mg. She had been taking 10mg in the morning and 10mg at bedtime. It could be to that like the others said you are not using Vetoryl. I would think a dog the size of Trixie, which is larger that my Tipper may benefit from 1 time a day with a higher dosage of Vetoryl provided you do an ACTH before making any adjustments. The expense is killer and my Tipper had so many I would have to look at her file and count them, but I would never, never ever change her dosage without an ACTH first. Don't worry it will all work out, sometimes they need tweaking on their dosage. I know I was always holding my breath every time I changed Tipper's, and she has been stabilized for a while. It seems every once and a while they need an adjustment. God Bless you and Trixie
Patti

[Trish]

Hope all going well at your Mom's Barbara and Trixie is having a nice day with the family. I can so hear the frustration in your voice, seems like she is coming right then starts sliding again, I hope this next week brings the stability we need for your little Miss! Hang in there xx

[Trixie]

Thanks to everyone for advice and support.

Trixie is on the branded Vetoryl for the most part-- 20mg.. she only has Trilostane compounded (2mg caps) to make up the 4mg needed for the rest of the dose.

Patti...I was wondering about a one time higher dose but a still a little concerned about it holding in the evening which is Trixie's worst time of day. I know the dose would be higher...so maybe it could work. I agree that trying that option would have to come after an acth test.

I'm waiting for the vet to call...hoping not to miss it as that's what happens everytime! He always calls during the 10 minutes when I run out. Way too hot outside so for now we're staying in anyway.
What I would like to try, if he agrees, is to go from 24 mg to 30mg ...each dose would go up 3mg..12mg to 15mg.
Right now she's seems to be feeling fine, has energy but drinking and peeing increasing each day and appetite starting to get a little crazy again too. The symptoms very gradually increasing but I have no doubt that they are. I can compare drinking measurements and she's more than doubled water intake from 10 days ago.
If the 30mg can hold her for more than 2 weeks then do an acth at that point.
Right now she's not controlled, I can see it...if I do the test this week and find that out-well I would have a number but I already know she's up-- then the dose will be increased....so what's gained by that if it's already obvious she needs more? Yes, I would know an exact number...but we would not increase the dose in a large increment anyway. The test here in NYC is close to $400 and doing that twice over the next 4 weeks would be next to impossible right now.
Going up 6mg a day while she's not controlled doesn't seem too dangerous as I am with her ALL the time..watching ALL the time....

This is what I'm hoping to do...I'll have to see if the vet agrees. If I won the lottery I'd test this week and test again after a dose change...just so we would know exact numbers but it's just too expensive. I wouldn't do anything to put Trixie in danger. She has not had even one day with any adverse side effects from the medication as we have gone so slowly since the start.
Right now with increasing symptoms I do not believe she would be adversely affected by adding 6 mg a day...I believe she definitely needs an increase. I hope we can do it this way, because between the costs are getting out of hand.

Wow...doc just called while I was writing!! Yipee. He agrees that we can do it this way...but says lets go to 28mg a day...14mg 2x. Since I have the 2mg caps...and then we'll see in one week if it's made a difference. Agrees we don't need to do the acth this week. Says clinical symptoms mean a lot and since I am keeping careful track and watchful eye this is ok. Relieved we can go ahead and start this right away.
Let's see if this makes a difference. sorry for this being so long...

[Budsters Mom]

Tweaking dosage again. Fingers, toes and paws crossed, that it's the right one! I hope everything went okay at your moms yesterday. I'm sure that Trixie had a wonderful time with your hubby and the girls.:) xxxxxx

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy..I hope it works too, it's a tiny tweak but who knows it could do the trick. The good thing is that even though Trixie's symptoms are inching up it's not too, too bad yet, so maybe this little bit more-4mgs--will make a difference. We shall see.
Things at my mother's were as usual. It's sometimes sad because I'm starting to forget what my mother was really like. Her mind is going and she's so different from her true self. In the morning she's more herself and like many older people as the day wears on she has difficulties with her mind. It's been a long while now without the long conversations and phone calls we used to have...I miss that a lot.
Trixie had a relaxing Sunday at home with the fam and a/c cranked!! It's 97 degrees right now and high humidity...it's unbearable outside!! No park today, it's just too hot for her. :( We've got this heat wave until Saturday!...not so good for dogs. The pavement gets so hot it can hurt their little paw pads!! :eek:

Barbara

[Harley PoMMom]

We have that same hot weather here in PA too. With the humidity that high it nearly takes your breath away! :eek::mad: I am ready for winter already!!!!

I am glad you and your vet have agreed on a plan for Trixie and I hope it works too.

Love and hugs, Lori

[addy]

I hope this dose change helps Trixie. Keep in mind the hormones fluctuate too so that may be why we see these changes from time to time.:)

[Trixie]

Thanks Lori and Addy...I'm hoping for the best with this little tweak.
I find myself wishing for cold weather too Lori! This heat is awful for everyone and especially our dogs!! ;)

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

I just saw that you are going to be adjusting. Keep an eye on her, just in case. I know you don't want to do the ACTH test because you'd be looking at like 800. in a month with the next one. Remember if you are worried, you can have a base line test, which is a regular blood draw, no ACTH agent used. That would give you the pre number.

I know what you mean with your mom. My dad got Alzheimers. It was hard to see sometimes.

Hang in there! Hope this does the trick!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Tina]

Hi Barbara,
I just got caught up on Trixie, and I'm sorry she has been drinking and peeing more again. I know first hand how frustrating and worrisome that is. I like your plan of increasing her dose just a bit and glad your vet is on board. Just be careful, you know all the signs to watch for and it sounds like you are able to be home with her most of the time and watch her close. Those stim tests are so expensive, I totally understand.

Tonight on our local news it said all 5 NY boroughs are under a heat advisory until Wednesday night. That is horrible, we get that high heat and humidity here too but don't have the urban heat build up that you do in the city. Poor Trixie is probably going be without her walks for a couple of days. That high humidity is too dangerous, and the pavement heat also, like you mentioned.

Thanks for checking in on Jasper. He is still drinking more, but I really do think a lot of it is due to the heat. I am still watching it, and our vet is aware. I took him in after work tonight to have his electrolytes drawn to see where we are with that. I need to post an update on our thread, seems I never get around to it because I am so busy trying to get caught up on everyone's babies! :) I hope this latest adjustment does the trick for Trixie.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[Trixie]

Thanks Sharlene...
Well I guess I need a little lesson...I didn't know there was an option to just have her blood drawn and see her cortisol level. Duh..why didn't that ever occur to me! :rolleyes: So basically I would get the 1st number...hmmm that's really good to know.

I will definitely be careful watching Trixie-- my problem lately is not watching her! ;)
I get a little obsessed with everything she's doing...my kids think I'm crazy but they don't understand about this disease. I just gave her the "new" dose, so she got 2mg more. I'll be keeping my eye on her. ;)
Sorry to hear about your father...(sigh) so hard to see our parents go downhill an not be able to stop it.

Barbara

[Trixie]

Thanks for posting Tina. Yes...we're under a "heat advisory"...the city really holds onto the heat--all the streets absorb the hot sun all day and stay warm all night. It was a scorcher today, went up to 96 but that humidity makes it steam...It's 86 now, they just said the "real feel" (summer wind chill factor :o) is 90 degrees! At 11pm! yow! :eek: You are so right...Trixie won't be on any park walks this week...it's just too hot for her. It will take some big thunder storms, (weather girl just said we'll get severe ones on Saturday) :eek: to blow this heat wave out of here. So, I want this crazy heat gone but thunder storms...more trouble for Trixie! Guess we can't win this week! ;) I'm looking forward to the crispy Fall weather! :D

Yes...watching Trixie like a hawk....not going out so much or for too long in this heat so I'll have my eye on her.
Barbara

[Tina]

No kidding, can't win with the thunderstorms either! Jasper is scared of them too. We get heat advisories here quite often too. The last one was last week and the heat index (real feel) was 106 degrees. Sometimes it gets to 110 and above. Brutal. The dogs are out literally long enough to pee and poo, and then immediately back in. I stay out with them and get them right back in the house. You can't mess around when it is that hot.

Jasper has had many baseline cortisols done rather than a full stim test since he had the Addison's crisis. You can get a pretty good idea of where they are at for baseline. It is also called a resting cortisol, or random cortisol, depending on the lab. Much cheaper! :D

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

It doesn't substitute for a full ACTH when you need one, but in between, sure, I'd get baseline. It's better than worrying.

Ugh, we're under heat advisories too and joy joy, found out that the humidity and high heat is playing havoc with my sinus's and giving me headaches this year. Molly is less than thrilled with it too, so lots of indoor time for her right now.

hang in there!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
Are you right in the city? I know it said today in the city it will be in the upper 90's, so be careful with your baby outside. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

Oh Barbara, I am so sorry that you and Trixie seem to be on such a rollercoaster with her dosing. :(

I am going to ask a favor of you. When you have the time to do so, could you give us a quick summary of her dosing and ACTH history: the dates/amounts of dosing changes, and dates/results of any ACTHs? I know it's a pain, but I hope it may offer some guidance as far as the path forward, especially in terms of opting for a baseline cortisol vs. a full ACTH. It does seem as though a baseline can be a money-saver if your primary concern is only whether a dog may have dropped too low , or perhaps for ongoing monitoring in the event that you have a symptom-free dog who has already been stabilized. But if you are considering a dosage increase for a symptomatic dog, then you are pretty much stuck with a full ACTH. :o

Thanks so much in advance!
Marianne

[Trixie]

Let's see if I can get this all together....
Low dex Test April 9th:
4.7
<0.7
6.2

Alk 1295 (5-131)
Alt 246 (12-118)
GGtP 39 (1-12)
Choles 330 (92-324)
Triglycer 1066 (29-291)

Diagnosed PDH
This is when we started out with 6mg of Trilostane 2x a day. Trixie weighed approx 14-15 pounds.

ACTH test 4/23

Pre 3.2
Post 7.2

still had symptoms-drinking/urinating/panting
dosage moved up 7mg 2x day
I can't find the other sheet for this test...can't believe it's not in my folder where I have everything...have to search. For now I don't have the other numbers on this one.

symptoms started to get better controlled through May but the next test below showed numbers up...then symptoms started up again.

ACTH test 5/29
Pre 8.0
Post 10.4

Alk 2123 (5-131)
Alt 220 (12-118)
GGTP 34 (1-12)

Choles 372 (92-324)
Triglyc 578 (29-291)

June 15: dosage went up from 14mg a day to 18 mg a day (Vet wanted to go to 20mg a day but I wanted more gradual until
June 18 when symptoms got really bad again..woke up panting, much more drinking.etc..went to 20mg..(10 2x a day)

Switched to Vetoryl 10mgs (2x) on June 22 and symptoms controlled for 7 days...then drinking, eating started up...added 2mg caps Trilostane for a total of 24mg a day July 1. That brings us to now-doubled drinking in a week, peeing on puppy pads again...all signs symptoms uncontrolled again.
ACTH was going to be yesterday...you know the rest.
Added 2mg more starting last night, and today was second dose of 14mg 2x, 28mg a day.

I know that we soon need an acth test. We will get one after she has this new dose for a bit. Vet said call next week and we would decide on a day. I also will get over there to get a copy of the ultrasound notes which I never picked up.
Other than the creeping back of heavy water intake, Trixie is doing really well. No side effects or bad reactions to any of the dose increases. She has never shown any signs of going too low throughout the changes in medication.
She remains on Denamarin..one a day at bedtime and one half a PepcidAC also at bedtime.
I hate to even write this because I don't want to jinx anything but her whole gastro system has never been better. Even with all her high liver numbers she has good digestion, good poops, good appetite (too much eating when symptoms are up), she's still very energetic, still doing long walks (weather permitting) and is not noticeably uncomfortable. She never had much back leg problems...before diagnosis avoided jumping up sometimes but now jumps up on the couch or anywhere normally. No fur changes.
Bloated belly was mild and mostly in the evenings when symptoms were up...all the water I think. Panting has been on and off...on during all the spikes in symptoms and gone during the days she was more controlled.
So that's basically it. We are now at 28mg divided in 2 doses. She's fine so far today. We were able to do a half hour walk in the shade this morning..now she's napping and enjoying the a/c.

[goldengirl88]

Sounds like things are going very well for Trixie. I will be curious what the IMS thinks of the diet she should be on, and if any protein restrictions. When does she see the IMS again? Is the IMS the one doing her Vetoryl dosing? Keep going you are doing a great job with her. Maybe I am making a mistake and you are referring to Mark Peterson the Endocrinologist. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
I'm not seeing Dr. Peterson but he is not far from where I live--about 15 minutes away.
I called his office right away when we suspected Cushings. The woman I spoke to in the office could not have been nicer...but she explained I can't just make an appt. with Dr. Peterson. He works as specialist and would not act as my "vet". He would see the dog, test and recommend treatment but I would still need my vet to take care of Trixie and my vet would have to refer Trixie and work with Dr. Peterson. His website made it look like you could just book an appt. there but the fact is you can't. I would still love to take Trixie to him but it's quite expensive and I would still have to bring her to my own vet for various stuff. It would be costly but if things got really bad in some way I would definitely go to him..somehow I'd make it work.
My feeling was if my vet proved to be less than an expert on Cushings and all the treatments or I felt he was doing an inferior job I would try and go to Dr. Peterson, but so far I have been happy with how my vet has handled everything. Dr. Peterson's initial fee for the consult was $325..or there abouts...that's before any testing. I would love to see him but unfortunately I can't do that right now.


Trixie has been on the same low fat diet for quite awhile. She gets 1/2 a serving plain white meat turkey and 1/2 serving of canned w/d. When she begs at the table she gets i/d kibble. I think she's on to the fact that it's actually not what we're eating. :D
Everything I give her..food, treats etc... the lowest fat possible. She has bad reactions to anything too fatty and also chicken doesn't agree with her so much. I am really careful about what she eats.
Patti-you asked in I am right in the city and yes, I am. It's hot almost everywhere though!! I'm sure you have the same crazy heat as I do! I cannot wait for it to cool off...whenever that happens! :cool:

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
You'll get Trixie's dosage sorted out. Your vet seems to be on top of things. Focus on the fact that she is feeling well and continues to be active. You are are doing all that you can. Hopefully our experts will discover something from you test results that will help. Keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed.:) Try to stay cool! No park walks for Miss Trixie this week! Hugs,

[molly muffin]

Oh gads, I hope it isn't as bad at your place as it is here. Molly barely wanted to walk at all at around 5pm it was so hot and humid. It was heavy enough it felt awful to breath in it, so it was a couple pee stops and then right back to the house and AC. Early morning seems to be the best time. Even at 10 and midnight it is hot and sticky out there. :(

I think you are doing a terrific job with Trixie. Sure it would be great to see the top doc but what the heck, if yours is doing good, testing, etc, then that is fine and save the big doc for if you ever really need to go to him. I'd have a fainting spell in his office probably when I got the bill.

stay cool

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene & Kathy,
It is terrible here and everywhere else I think, except for the lucky ones on the West Coast! (Kathy and Rosie!) Funny though, the weatherman is just now saying it wasn't as bad today as yesterday, and tomorrow will be worse. :eek: Seems we have a little breeze off the ocean today (haha it wasn't exactly what I would call cool) and it won't be back tomorrow.
I did take Trixie for a walk in park closer to me than Central Park. We went at 8am and walked mostly in the shade but we cut it short when it got too sunny. The sun just made it feel unbearable. Luckily at that time all the apt buildings hose down their sidewalks so the cement was wet and Trixie did fine walking home.
Just now we went out for about 10 minutes..only around the block. My ankles and calves felt like they were on fire! The pavement is steaming. It's crazy hot! So many dogs out now walking and panting--looking super uncomfortable. Their paws are probably on fire! :eek:
Trixie kept pulling to head to the park...crazy dog! Panting away but thinking she needed to get to all her marking! Pulled her right back in the house and she's basking in the a/c! :p
Same here on the night time temps!!? Can you believe it's that hot at midnight?! They're saying severe storms will break this up on Saturday.
There's still 3 more days of this awful weather. :eek:
Barbara ;)

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
The reason I asked about Dr. Peterson is I had a consultation with him when I first suspected my Tipper had Cushings. He is incredibly expensive I agree. My vet had a consultation with him also. I agree that you went the best route for your situation. Does Trixie use piddle pads? If not it must be a pain finding a place close for her to go??? Are you in a high rise? Then you deal with an elevator too?? I know the city really hold the heat, so you must have the air on full blast. I often thought it would be great to live in the city. How long have you lived there and do you like it? Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Oh yes, the a/c is cooling us nicely! Today is already quite a bit worse than yesterday...we did a short walk but enough to let Trixie get some energy out and sniff all the neighborhood news.
Trixie will use puppy pads...I leave 2 out in one spot and she'll use them if she needs to. I can judge if her symptoms start to increase by her usage of the pads. It's not "normal" for her to use them. When she was controlled she didn't use them for at least a week. Now she using them here and there.
I've lived in the city soon after I got out of college...that was almost 32 years ago now!! Can't believe it! :eek: I grew up close by on Long Island.
Anyway...I'm not in a huge high-rise, we're on the 11th floor and the building has 19 stories. I live in what's known in the city as a "pre-war" co-op. Built before WWII. This building was built in the 1920's. There is a man that operates our old fashioned...(but safely remade) elevator..which has a really pretty inlaid wood car. Trixie has never had a problem waiting for the elevator when she needs to go. She has very scheduled going out times which still are pretty much the same even with Cushings. If she really needs to go in between walks now she goes over to the pads and I might not even know until I happen to see the pads, which I hate seeing because then I know her symptoms are showing again.
Well, it's not for everyone but we love being right in the city. My husband can get to work in about 15-20 minutes. We love to walk everywhere and we're not far from Central Park and even closer is another beautiful park right along the river...so we have green places to be. Trixie's a city dog but she can't live without her time in the park.
I have Dr. Peterson in mind for sure if we get to that point. How did you like your consult with him?? Was it over the phone? I hope I won't need him...but good to know he's right across town from where I live!
Hope you keep cool too... :eek: enough with this heat, I'm ready for winter!

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I would love to visit New York City. :)It sounds so much different than what I'm used to. The farthest east I have ever gotten was Pennsylvania. It's been hot here too (In the 90s) minus the humidity. It does cool down very nicely in order to sleep at night. It drops down into the 60s, which is very comfortable for sleeping. It's great that Trixie will use puppy pads since you are on the 11th floor. Boy, what a mess that would be! I hope Trixie is doing well today and that you're managing to stay cool. Hugs,

[molly muffin]

Fall! I'm not quite ready for winter, but fall would be good. :) Cooler weather but no snow and ice. :)

I love some of those buildings from the older era, they are just lovely. The elevators especially! How great that Trixie doesn't mind it. They can be kind of noisy sometimes. :) LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

;) Trixie loves the elevator...because some of the guys who run it give treats!! :D Sure..she pops right in there and looks up to see who's on. If it's someone who carries treats she sits right down and does her best trick, (um...that would be sitting) and waits for the pay-off. If it's a non treat operator she just keeps her nose pointed toward the door waiting to land in the lobby.

I don't know..snow sounds okay to me!! ;) This heat is just awful and for so many days. It's easier to warm up than to cool down...just pile on the layers...you can only take off just so much! :D

Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

60's and sleep. Those are two things that I miss dearly lately Kathy.
Anytime that you want to play in NYC, I am 45 minutes from there by train and have fun just exploring.

Don't wear sandals though, I did and am still recovering.

[spdd]

Had to pop in on this. No snow... no cooler weather. I'm in the process of deciding to move to Florida for the winter. Although it's the middle of a heat wave here too, I'll take it over 3 ft mounds of blown snow anyday.

I know what it's like to try to get the dosage right, not sure if Keesh's is either, but glad the piddle pads are working for you.

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I love the elevator guys with the treats. I will take winter and snow over this heat and humidity any day. Bring on Fall that's what I say!. How is Miss Trixie today? She has become quite the favorite in the elevator I am sure. Tipper loves to go to the bank here. They give treats out the drive thru window. I have asked them to not do it though, as I am counting every nugget of food she eats. Never thought I would be counting nuggets! Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

haha we've got a cold weather/hot weather poll going on here. I find weather so interesting and I must say I love the change of seasons, and but this crazy hot/humid yuck is for the birds! I hate it! I'll take a snowstorm any day over this! Let's get that Canadian air down here...the weatherman said it's coming...cool air from Canada on Saturday/Sunday. I hope he's right!! The map shows the whole country is blazing hot! :cool:

Trixie seems fine today. She wanted to keep walking when we got out but I had to cut it short again. Then an hour later I took her back out for a quick around the block...so she doesn't feel cheated.

Trixie doesn't act under the weather, seems like nothing is bothering her. It's my problem that I can't relax and take it as it comes. I'm watching her, measuring her water and worrying. It's crazy I know. My husband and my girls think I'm just looking for things to be wrong, but I'm the one who gives the meds, feeds her, sees the symptoms and then I get worried.
They don't get it, but I admit I have to lighten up about everything. I have such a hard time dealing with watching her hit the water dish. Today she has not even had all that much...especially considering we were out in the heat twice...but still I can't shake the worry all the time. I hate this disease so much! :mad:

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I am right there with you! Where is the snow when you need it?? Don't be concerned if others think you are a worry wart, over Trixie. That is the best way to be as far as I am concerned. There are so many issues with this disease that the sooner you get on them the better it is for your baby. So being on top of things is very helpful with this situation. I am anal with Tipper, I check and recheck everything, and try not to worry, but that is a joke. This is very hard to put out of your mind when you see the every day effects on you dog. You are doing a great job, just keep that hawk eye going and you will do fine. My Tipper dearly loves the snow, so I can hardly wait, as I hate this weather and she hates to stay in. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Okay you made me go look. So the weather site shows that Sat and Sun, winds more out of the North, before switching back to the south for Tues/Wed and then back to the North. Looks like it'll be swinging, so hope hope some of the north winds get to you guys and break the humidity!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

I want that Canadian cool Sharlene. Have to laugh though....they just forecast for relief here by Sunday when the high will be 86 degrees!! :eek: Does that sound like relief?? :confused: I was hoping for somewhere between 75-78 maybe...that would be relief...86 is better than 96 but not really sounding like cool Canadian breezes to me!!! :eek:

[molly muffin]

Ohhhh trixie pictures! So did she manage to get some lunch? :)
Sharlene.

[Trixie]

haha...nope...wasn't something Trixie's menu!! ;)

Don't worry though...she gets plenty!
Her morning is "made" by a little routine we have. I eat a wedge of low fat Laughing Cow cheese every morning with Ryvita toasts...(I try to convince myself it's delicious bread and butter :rolleyes:). Anyway when I am done eating I pop Trixie on my lap and she licks my plate...the cheese that's left and some crumbs. You would think I'm giving her roast beef! She gets so excited and waits by my feet. It's so cute really...she licks and licks...until I tell her I think she's done it..then she hops off and peruses the kitchen floor for a possible crumb or two.
:D

[Squirt's Mom]

LOL That's cute! I can just see it! All her life, Squirt has gotten "plates" at times when I have things like fried eggs - something that doesn't have seasonings she doesn't need. All she has to hear is the word "plate" and she is on point! :p And you're right....it's like a nice rare T-bone with a side of baby back ribs is on that plate instead of egg smears. :D:D

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I love the Laughing cow cheese too. Hope you and Trixie stay cool today is supposed to be the hottest day of this awful weather. It's funny the little things that give these babies pleasure! I am down to counting Tipper's nuggets of food, so if she gets something extra, wow it' a big deal. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

In light of today's 100 degrees I've posted some photos of Trixie out on a cold day last winter! :D
She's spending another boring day in the a/c. (yawn) Outside she pulls like crazy to get to the park and just doesn't get why we don't go even while she's panting and obviously hot! Hopefully we will be back in the park once this heat wave breaks. Can't wait! :cool:

[doxiesrock912]

Daisy starts the day full of excitement to go outside as well...until we actually get out and she feels the heat.

I bought very small plastic pool yesterday and am going to set it up and put it in a shady spot. Might be good fun for both of us:)

[molly muffin]

Love the winter pictures. Central park is great.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

It is beautiful there, hope those snowy pics cooled you down :D:D Flynn used to get 'plates' too, but now with the ban on table scraps that is a thing of the past along with toys! But his tummy has been so good lately that it is most definitely worth it!! I hate hot weather too, so does Flynn and he pants much more then. So stay inside in the cool, I am staying inside in the warm, very cool here today but looks like it might get a bit sunny later on so we can get out and about!

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I loved all the pictures, and the doggies bonding. How beautiful looking at the snow as I am sweltering as I know you are too. What a real sweetie Trixie is. Hope winter is early this year for the sake of my Tipper's health and well being. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

It was slightly better here at 7:30am and Trixie hasn't been to the park in a week so my husband and I took her. We cabbed it there so she didn't get worn out on the way. It was pretty shady where we were walking and a bit of a breeze...not exactly a cool breeze but at least the air was moving!
She was so happy trotting around and did just fine even though it was still quite warm. It was 81 degrees but overcast so that made all the difference, no direct sun. Kind of nicer for her to walk on the grass and in the fields rather than the hot sidewalk anyway. She had cool water which I also poured on her belly to keep her cool.
I swear this dog was depressed all week...no park, no other dogs and only walks around the block. It did her a lot of good to be out for an hour in park.
The rest of her day is being spent resting in the cool a/c! So happy we got her out she really needed it! :D Hope everyone else is having a nice Saturday. We're waiting for that Canadian cold front! Please get here soon!!!! :D

Barbara

[Trish]

I can blow up an Antarctic wind Barbara if that helps!! I agree with you about them not getting their exercise, Flynn gets depressed if he does not get his daily walk, and that is mostly an off leash run up the beach. He swans around looking sad and I usually find he will be awake in the middle of the night barking as he has not used up all his energy... I always try and run him up and down the house chasing balls if he cannot get out!

I am so pleased I live in this temperate climate, we do not get the wild swings like you do... not as cold in winter and not as hot in summer, suits us fine!

[Budsters Mom]

Poor Trixie. She lives for her walks at the park. I don't blame her for being depressed. Poor thing. I'm glad that she got to go today with you and your hubby. How is she doing otherwise? Xxxxx

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
I wish I could say since the new dosage that Trixie has improved but there's still a lot of drinking, peeing, eating....not too much decrease at all these last few days that we went up from 24mg to 28 mg.
Guess it's still not high enough. :(
The walk really did her good and she's was a bit better today because of the exercise. Tonight she started panting...in a cold room, she's since had her night time dose so she should be better now through the night.
I'm still so worried that so far we can't get these symptoms controlled.
:(

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
Glad Trixie got her walk in. I know Tipper is miserable in the house. She gets bored easily. Her breed is very high energy so she likes to be outside having fun. When was Trixie's last ACTH? Were the numbers good then? It seemed as though her cortisol is not being controlled from the symptoms she is still having. Hope the weather gets cooler soon, we have had it with the humidity. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

It will happen Barbara.: You'll find the perfect dose. It takes longer for some than others. I know that's of little consolation. Buddy had the perfect dose in his first time out. That didn't work very well for us.:( Trixie is doing well as far as energy level and exercise. Her excessive eating, drinking, peeing, panting symptoms do seem to indicate that her cortisol level remains uncontrolled. I know that you wanted to wait on his next ACTH test until you gave this new dosage time to kick in. Will you be scheduling one soon? Possibly her numbers could give us an idea of exactly what is going on.

I hope you you mom's visit went well today. Xxxxx

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, sending hugs and prayers for you and Trixie, getting that level just right can be so hard, with Simba the meds worked to well, that wasn't good either, kinda a vicious circle....hang in there!!!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Barbara:
We are in for another storm today. Hopefully it starts after we get in the vets office. I hope Trixie is doing well today and stays cool as it is going to be a hot and humid day. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

A week ago today we raised Trixie's dose from 12mg 2x to 14 2x...so she's on 28 mg a day. No symptom change at all this week. Lots of drinking and peeing, dilute urine, definitely very hungry, some panting and some belly bloating...then again it was super hot all week long-maybe a tough week to judge?

Guess I'll put a call into the vet. Maybe I should try and get a cortisol number from a regular blood test. I feel like that could be helpful. Would you do that test before the morning dose or after it? Really, really want to wait on a stim test until she seems at least a little controlled because I don't see how much it could help right now and if we raise the dose again and it holds for a week or two then I must get the test, and would want to, making sure she's not too low. Doing 2 stims in 3 weeks time is just going to be too much $$ and there's no way she's too low right now.

Am I expecting too much? :confused: Is a week of a higher dose not enough time to judge if it's working or not? I feel like so many start the medication and in days they see so much improvement and I never do!
We've been so conservative since starting in April and I'm happy that not one instance of having too much. Things have improved somewhat since then but her symptoms are all still quite noticeable.
I know you've all hear this from me before...same old posting I guess. Sorry about that. :rolleyes:

[Harley PoMMom]

A week ago today we raised Trixie's dose from 12mg 2x to 14 2x...so she's on 28 mg a day. No symptom change at all this week. Lots of drinking and peeing, dilute urine, definitely very hungry, some panting and some belly bloating...then again it was super hot all week long-maybe a tough week to judge?

It can be difficult to judge a dog's water/urination increase when it has been so hot but I wouldn't think the heat would increase Trixie's appetite.


Guess I'll put a call into the vet. Maybe I should try and get a cortisol number from a regular blood test. I feel like that could be helpful. Would you do that test before the morning dose or after it? Really, really want to wait on a stim test until she seems at least a little controlled because I don't see how much it could help right now and if we raise the dose again and it holds for a week or two then I must get the test, and would want to, making sure she's not too low. Doing 2 stims in 3 weeks time is just going to be too much $$ and there's no way she's too low right now.

Regarding the regular blood test, are you talking about just doing a resting/pre cortisol test? If so, I really do not think that this will give you the answer you want, meaning exactly where her cortisol is. A resting/pre is usually done to make sure a dog isn't close to an Addison's crisis.


Am I expecting too much? :confused: Is a week of a higher dose not enough time to judge if it's working or not? I feel like so many start the medication and in days they see so much improvement and I never do!
We've been so conservative since starting in April and I'm happy that not one instance of having too much. Things have improved somewhat since then but her symptoms are all still quite noticeable.
I know you've all hear this from me before...same old posting I guess. Sorry about that. :rolleyes:

No need to be sorry, we truly do understand your frustration. ;) We have seen a dog's cortisol decrease while being given the same dose over a period of time. Remember the saying that all are different and can react differently, it could be that Trixie is not as sensitive to Trilostane as other dogs can be.

If this were me, I would give the new dose another week or so and if by that time if Trixie's symptoms still have not abated then I would increase her dose again, maybe to 17mg or 18 mg BID then have another stim test done in two weeks after the new increase...just my two cents worth. :)

[Trixie]

Thanks for your advice Lori :) and I tend to agree that I should give this dose a bit more time and see what happens.

I guess I do mean a "pre or resting" test..others have mentioned this so I thought it might be helpful.
Honestly at this point I'm not really worried that Trixie has a low level at all. Quite the opposite.

I kept my eye on her today..(nothing new there) and tried to determine when that 10am dose seems wear off. Though it could vary each day I suppose. :confused: She's pretty good for about 6 hours. From about 10:30am until 4:30pm she didn't over drink, didn't need to go out or use a puppy pad and was napping comfortably. It does seem to make a very big difference if she has a long morning walk, which she did today.
We went out for a walk at 4:30 she did many puddles..(she's a marker), fairly dilute..not too much color. Came back in and drank about 4oz of water--not too bad but more than what's normal -it's also still hot. Her total water so far, (with more hours to go) is 16oz. ugh, that's kind of a lot. I'll see how it goes until our next dose at 10pm.

Thanks again for your take on it...I appreciate the help! :D

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

I agree with Lori and think she needs more time, but it is true, that every single dog can be different and Trixie might end up being one of those who needs a larger dose. Unfortunately the only way to really get there is with stepped up increases and the numbers will tell the tale so to speak, but no point in doing it early.

Lori, if they did a resting cortisol and the pre number was pretty high, then it is probable that the post number would be higher during an ACTH test right? So, say it is at, like in May her pre was 8.0.
So, just a pre or resting cortisol would sort of let Kathy know if they are on the right track with the increases without having to do the full test every 2 weeks, which is just not really possible.
Not as a substitute for an ACTH, just as an in between test, so that it's not so stressful worrying and wondering.

What do you think or one of the others, what do you think?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

A baseline or pre reading, I believe, may tell if the current dose is adequate but if one is trying to decide if the dosage needs an adjustment upwards then a full stim test is warranted...although the dog's clinical symptoms, how the dog is acting/feeling, and prior stim results should be taken in consideration too.

With having said all that :eek: regarding Trixie, I just reread some of her thread, Trixie did have 3 dosage increases with out a full stim (18mg to 20mg, 20mg to 24mg, then 24mg to 28mg). So I have to retract what I said earlier about doing a dosage increase and then having a full stim done, when in actuality a full stim should be done before any more upward dosage adjustment is done. This is just my opinion and hopefully others will share theirs.

[molly muffin]

hmm, you're right, I for some reason thought she has another one towards the end of June, but guess it was only considered, not done.
So last ACTH was end of May.
Barbara, did you ever pick up the copy of the ultrasound result? I still would like to know what the remarks on that said.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Yes, I do agree with Lori. I was aware of the three dosage increases since Trixie's last ACTH Stim test. Buddy's cortisol level continued to drop for more than 30 day with no dosage change. Each dog reacts to Trilostane differently. I know how expensive ACTH tests are!:eek: However, I don't want you and Trixie to end up in a dangerous situation. Please do not increase her dosage again without a full ACTH being done. You don't want me to worry, do you?:o;) xxxxxxx

[Trixie]

Thanks everyone...Sharlene- I keep forgetting that ultrasound report but need to get some dog food at the vet tomorrow so I will get it then.
Even though Trixie's symptoms are still not controlled her numbers could be at a dangerous level for another increase? Could she exhibit such obvious symptoms and really be dangerously low? :confused:
Wouldn't she show some control before dropping down that far?
I thought if she started to drop, besides seeing drinking and peeing decrease I would also see the symptoms of too much vetoryl-like diarrhea or nausea.

So, I would keep with this dose-28mg for another week, and then do an acth, even if still uncontrolled?
No...don't want you to worry Kathy...;)

Like everyone here costs are a big concern so I was trying to time another test when her symptoms decreased more, figuring symptoms were the marker of higher levels.

I did have a test scheduled in the middle of June after about 5 days of decreased symptoms...then everything started up again, drinking more than doubled in a week, so we did a small increase and put the test on hold. Again everything stayed the same and we did another increase in the dose by 2mg and still no change in symptoms...that brings us to now.
So I guess I will schedule a test for next week after one more week with the newest does of 28mg.
Wish this dose would do the trick...maybe a few more days will make a difference. :confused:

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
We are all keeping our fingers, toes and paws crossed that this dosage is the right one. I do know how expensive it all is! I'm still paying off Buddy's Cushings expenses!:eek: We are trying to safeguard you and Trixie as much as possible, because we care. Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I always stressed about changing Tipper's dosage too. I am fortunate that we have not gone down too low to date. All of this stress over these drugs is a lot to take I know. Soon enough you will have the results from the ACTH to go off of. I get nervous when Tipper is in the 3 month period of no testing that something is happening. You can't subject these babies to these tests more than necessary though, as it is extremely stressful for them. Tipper is due August 7th I think. I am anxious to know the results as I think she is in the lower range right now. It will all work out and you are keeping a close watch on Trixie so she will do well. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi Barbara,

Most of these increases, are not even 25%. Low and slow is good but I am just wondering if it is too low and slow for Trixie but I dont remember the thoughts as to why they are such small increases.:confused:

I had to go slow with Zoe because of her IBD but even with that we did 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50.

What were the results of her April stim? Did you have good control?

I just dont want you to get frustrated and am thinking these small adjustments may not do the trick. Just my thoughts.:):);)

I know cost is a worry for you.

[Trixie]

Addy,
You may be right. We had some control here and there but it never stuck. 5 good days...normal drinking etc and then it started escalating again. When I thought the symptoms were better at the end of May we did the stim test and the post actually had gone up from the April test.
So- the reason for small increment increases-- my vet being conservative and me not wanting to risk bad gastro issues, being afraid of going too high too soon.
Recently it was my request to do the last couple small increases as I was seeing symptoms and wanted to be under control for at least a week before doing another test, so tried some small increases in hopes of control and then was going to schedule a stim.
You may be right that these small increases are not cutting it. I'm going to give it this week on the 28mg and see if the symptoms decrease or not, then get the test I guess.

Now here's a question--- I give Trixie's doses with her food. The drug is "fat soluble" and Trixie gets very little fat. I started yesterday giving her the capsules in cheese...do you think it makes a difference in a good way to have a bit more fat when she has the medication? It's the fat that aids in the drugs absorption--from what I read online in general terms it's not just "food" but fats that determine how long a drug stays in the system.
Her diet is really low, low fat..pretty much everything she gets is very low fat. Having a small bit of cheese doesn't bother her at all so I'm giving it that way now. Perhaps I'll see a difference?
Maybe I'm grasping at straws??

Just as a note- the dog acts fine. Had a long walk again this morning and everything pretty much normal all day. After the 10am dose she's been perfectly fine the majority of today. She has not been to the water dish very much at all. Ate and has been resting fine.
I think the evenings before the next dose at 10pm is when I notice the med wearing off...today has been really good so far. I'll watch later and see if things are better or the same.

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Barbara, sending hugs and prayers that Trixie gets to normal days, the drugs are so tricky sometimes, take care hon, you are doing great!

[molly muffin]

If she tolerates the cheese well, then I'd continue to give her meds in the cheese. You're right, I've read the same thing, that fat helps with the absorption. So, lets see how that works.
Addy may be on to something. I wonder if it is possible that with very small increases, the body is able to adjust to it. Something to think about there.

hugs,
sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

The fact that she is acting fine is a huge blessing!:) xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I think Addy may be onto something here too. I give Tipper her Vetoryl with chicken breast which is really low fat, it has been working, but may work better with something fattier. I am hesitant to rock the boat though as Tipper is doing ok, and I don't want pancreas problems either. I think you are doing the right thing being conservative with these drugs, but knowing she is not controlled yet. Slow and steady wins the race with this stuff as far as I am concerned. I would just keep slowly inching up until you reach that sweet spot. Glad Trixie continues to do well, and the weather being cooler and the humidity gone will help. God Bless
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Barbara,
I agree with Patti from experience. Daisy's vet started her at a higher dose once a day and it did not go well at all. Thankfully, the IMS adjusted correctly.

Starting low and working up is the way to go :)

[Trixie]

Yes Patti and Valerie--I have been comfortable with the low and slow method, but I get impatient too. Just want to see Trixie's symptoms decrease at this point. It's been good to not have had any bad side effects with Trixie.

We've had 2 good days, especially from the morning dose at 10am through the early evening--control wears off a bit by 6-7-8pm and that's when drinking spikes up again...we'll see how it goes through the weekend.

Every time I've come on here and reported better things I see I end up eating my words just a few days later, so that's all I'll say for now. ;)

She needs the acth test next week so we can see what's up. I'm dreading her getting all pepped up from that acth! Also so worried that the liver numbers could still be high.
I'm hoping once she finally seems settled in a good dose for a few months (being optimistic here) that I can go back to generic....the medication is so expensive. I needed both Vetoryl 10mg and Trilostane 4mg and I had to get the generic here in the city. 60 caps of each just for one month! Ugh. So expensive this month. I am looking forward to ordering from Diamondback at some point for more reasonable prices on the meds. If we're staying on this dose after this month I can get my 4mg trilos at Diamondback. The people at our local compounding could not be nicer and deliver it to my door but honestly it's so overpriced. :(

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
All the Cush moms worry about these things so know you are not alone. Hope all the numbers are good on the blood panel, and maybe you will get some resolution with the ACTH numbers. It just takes tweaking at times that can be frustrating, but it will all work out. Trixie is doing well and will feel better once the cortisol is completely controlled. It is a pain and expense to change doses I know, but what can you do? Still cool here and Tipper is loving the weather and no storms. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Thanks Patti-
Was cool and cloudy here today..almost like Fall!! We loved it! Trixie got an extra long walk off leash. So nice to not have to worry about over heating.
Glad Tipper is enjoying cool breezes too! :p
Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Patience is a virtue in this case, believe me.
Jumping in too fast with a higher dosage can be so, so dangerous!

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Glad to hear the weather is finally cooperating!:) If it was beautiful all the time, you wouldn't appreciate a great weather day. That's what happens here. It's pretty much beautiful every day and it's taken for granted. Heaven forbid, it should spit on somebody's windshield!LOL :D

So glad you're getting an ACTH done next week.:) Yes, Vetoryl is EXPENSIVE and you're paying for both! :eek: Diamondback did a great job for me. No complaints.

Hugs to you and the poop texter. Belly rubs for Miss Trixie.

[molly muffin]

Yep, we are cool here too and Molly is Loving it. Last night at around 10pm we were out walking and met up with one of her dog friends and was jumping around like it was a dog party (maybe it was). LOL Good to see them getting some good outdoor time in with the nice weather.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
Even though it is cool out I only walk Tipper in the morning. We have too many mosquitoes here. They are out in the morning, but worse at dusk. Tipper was used to walking then too, and I think she misses it. She does not need any more problems and I am afraid of this west nile virus they carry. That is why I cannot wait for fall, then she can walk more. Hope the weather is still holding out so Trixie enjoys herself again today. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Ok...the stim test is on the calendar for Tuesday at 2pm. Ugh :(...hate, hate, hate leaving her at the vet. At least it's not for too long, when it's time to pick her up I can never get there fast enough. Luckily it's about a 3 minute walk for me to get over there! ;)

I just want to say that this disease is a roller coaster! I know you all know that already! :rolleyes:
Wednesday was a pretty good day...symptoms tended to be down and Trixie seemed really good. Then yesterday it was the exact opposite. Lots of drinking, some panting, restlessness and bloating, and I couldn't even blame the heat because it was a cool fall-like day! She also seemed to have a little gastro disruption yesterday-one bad poop...not too bad though just soft...I've seen way worse. At the late walk last night poops were fine, thank goodness.
I have been watching closely all day today and no other problems. She had a 2 mile walk, ate fine and today the drinking is controlled. After yesterday I thought we were back to square one again...then today her drinking was so normal, she's calm and really good again!--- Go figure.
Tuesday is the 2 week mark for the newest dose of 14mg bid. I will be really interested to see what her numbers will be. :confused:

[molly muffin]

Hi Barbara,

I think we'll All be interested to see where she is at now. Just hang in there and don't forget to get a copy of the ultrasound! :)

hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

wow Sharlene...do you know I was over there for the cans of food and completely forgot again to ask for that copy!! Shows you where my head is! :eek:

[molly muffin]

Okay that really cracked me up laughing Barbara! :D:D

Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

Maybe you don't really want to know what it says on that ultrasound.:confused: Either that, or you are becoming as dinghy as the rest of us!;):D I'm glad that you're getting Trixie's ACTH test done on Tuesday. Hugs,

[Trixie]

:D Kathy- I keep forgetting about it. It was from back in the beginning of April...the vet mentioned only a couple of things after the ultrasound...and now I don't even remember what he said, but I don't recall that they saw anything scary at that point. Mostly I think he said what he saw was typical in Cushings-swollen adrenals, liver slightly enlarged..(is that was he said?) but it feels like so long ago now.
Of course I'm as dinghy as the rest...not remembering much at all from April anymore! :eek:

[doxiesrock912]

Our brains are so full of Cushings stuff, sooner or later, something is bound to fall out.

[Squirt's Mom]

Our brains are so full of Cushings stuff, sooner or later, something is bound to fall out.

You've heard of having a mind like a steel trap? I've decided mine is like a trap door and that ^^^ happens alllll the time! :p

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
Just hang in there and it is all going to work out when you see where her numbers are. It is a good sign that she is still able to walk that far. I am waiting for Tipper's ACTH and blood work on the 8th to see if I want an ultra sound. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Hi everyone. ACTH day today. Will be bringing Trixie across the street in about 2 hours. :( Hate the thought of leaving her at the vet but it must be done.
Trixie has been doing really well. We've noticed some real improvement...I really hope the numbers show the same.
Guess I won't have the results until Thursday.
It was a beautiful cool morning so she had an excellent long walk, off leash in the park...and now she's sleeping it off. :p
Keeping my fingers crossed for good numbers!! ;)

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
We are keeping fingers and paws crossed here that Trixie come out with some good numbers and no problems. We will be anxious to see the results on Thursday too. great that she had a good walk before hand. Blessings
Patti

[Simba's Mom]

prayers for good numbers!!!!!

[Trixie]

Thanks Patti and Letti.
I just picked Trixie up!! So happy to spring her from the joint. I hate leaving her...they carried her off and she gives that look that says "why are you leaving me here!!". Anyway she was having a great day before the test..now she's looking a little sulky and breathing rapidly. Hoping she'll calm down soon. Just glad it's over and hoping to have results asap.

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Great job for getting that done!;):) It was done in the proper time frame and Trixie had her Trilo with food this morning, right?Trixie will forgive you eventually!:D Nah, it'll all blow over by dinner time. :p After tomorrow's park romp, it'll be as if it never happened! Anxious to see what happening with her numbers.

I hope you mom is doing okay. I know it's hard seeing her like that.:o
Xxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Hey Barbara, it's over now and that's what counts!!

Hugs, and give that little girl a belly rub from molly and me.
:)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

yep Kathy...pills with breakfast at 10am...pre draw at 2pm and I picked her up after the 2nd draw at 3:30pm.
She used the puppy pad this evening when she shouldn't have needed to go-- but I'm going to chalk it up to having the test and the the stim stuff she got.
These last few days Trixie's urine has some color again, which is a relief to me. Hope it all keeps up! I'm hoping for the best, not counting on perfect numbers but staying positive for improvement from the last test.
Yes, Sharlene...so happy it's done. Only 90 minutes so I shouldn't get myself in such a state. There's just something about leaving her at the vet that stresses me out so much! :eek:
Oh--and don't you know, I left without that ultrasound report!! :eek: Once I got a look at today's bill my mind was mush! I will get it when I pick up the copy of today's test...no way I will forget when the file is out!
Trixie growled at me while I was slicing the steak which was our supper tonight!! Too funny...we rarely have beef at home and when I do make it she smells it right away and comes in the kitchen to stare at me. I had to give her a few bites for having to go through a vet visit today. She was really happy with that treat and now she's peacefully napping!! Hope there's no tummy upset from the steak, it wasn't fatty so she should be okay. :p

[Simba's Mom]

yay Trixie, breezed thru test, fingers and paws crossed here for good numbers!!! hugs to you Barbara!!!

[Budsters Mom]

I'd be growling at you too! :D ACTH test stress, then steak for dinner! You tell her Trixie!:( Tell her no steak unless there is enough for everyone. She's probably thinking let my mom eat that vet food and see how she likes it! Too funny! LOL

I am glad to hear that Trixie is doing so well regardless of what the numbers say. Although I am hoping for much better numbers.;):)
Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
Way to go!! Give that Trixie girl some steak! She deserves it after that testing. It is really hard on dogs. More importantly you deserve it too after that bill. I can imagine as some of Tipper's have made me nauseous. I am glad Trixie is home and doing well. Now it is just the wait. I hate waiting for these test results, it seems like eternity. Tipper and I are praying for good numbers especially the liver values and urine. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Thanks Kathy & Patti, I am hoping for the same!
If I could judge by Trixie's behavior I would say she had nothing wrong with her at all. Walked 2 miles today and when we got home I gave her a bath in the kitchen sink. When we were through with a quick blow dry and brushing she went haywire running around...(you know- that after being wet crazy romp) :D and then tore up a big brown paper bag ( a favorite activity), ran and emptied all her toys from the basket and was still looking for fun after that! (wish I had taped her, she was so funny!) She certainly doesn't act sick, which is a good thing. I am still so worried though and anxious to hear from the vet.

Barbara