Just found out my dog has been diagnosed with Cushing's.

[gunthersmom]

Hi All

Just got the call from my baby's vet saying that his bloodwork came back that he has Cushing's :( Am sooooo confused and worried right now. He recommended that he be put on Vetoryl twice daily, then do bloodwork again in 2 weeks to check the dosing and then 4 weeks after that again and then every 3 months after that.

A little bit about Gunther, he is a 8 1/2 year old dachshund. I took him in for his annual check up and shots and vet recommended a geriatric blood panel due to his age, that came back with elevated Cortisol levels, so he suspected Cushing's so we did the 8 hr Dexamethasone (sp?) blood test.

I have no clue how to read the results, but the note from the lab says that the test results supports cushing's. My dilemna right now is, is it worth putting him on the meds with all the side effects ( he is his normal happy self, just drinks a little more water than he used to and pee's a bit more) Just have a hard time believing that my happy little boy, who doesn't appear to be sick can be :(

Any help and advice would be appreciate

[Squirt's Mom]

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[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Was an ACTH test also done? or just the LDDS? Can you post the results of any of the cushings test and anything on the blood work that was abnormal, like Test, high/low range, unit.

I'm glad you found us, as there is a world of experience here on the forum and you can share your fears and worries too.
We have several dachshunds on the forum. They'll probably all be in to welcome you too.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Hello Gunther and Mom, great that you found this site. I'm a Doxie mama too, Simba is an almost 11 year old mini Doxie, diagnosed with cushings last aug I believe, seems like forever that he's had it lately. I am treating Sim with 25 mg trilostane, hope I spelled that right. He took the 20 mg really well, but since then his symptoms returned so they upped it...he has been sleeping more and having more tummy issues, but in the long run I'm glad that I'm treating him.. Take care!

[gunthersmom]

I only have the results from the last test, the LDDS. They are cortisol 0 hour 143 and 280 nmol/l, cortisol 4 hour < 27.6 and cortisol 8 hour 120.

[gunthersmom]

Also wanted to ask what side effects if any you have experienced with the vetoryl? And with anipryl? These are the 2 meds my vet said are the options.

[lulusmom]

Hi Guntersmom and welcome to the forum.

It would help greatly if you would please ask your vet for copies of the senior panel results and either post them here or if you have the ability to scan them, you can send them k9cushings@gmail.com and we'll post them for you. Part of a senior panel is a urinanalysis so hopefully that was included so we can try to figure out if Gunters slight increase in drinking and peeing is due to the kidney's inability to concentrate the urine. Almost half of cushdogs have a UTI at diagnosis so this should have been ruled out by way of a urine culture so I hope your vet did that once he suspected cushing's. Since the drinking and peeing is Gunter's only symptom and no other validating tests were done, ruling out a UTI is even more important. An LDDS test can yield false positive results in the face of nonadrenal illness or any other physical and emotional issues that cause serious stress. Did your vet do an abdominal ultrasound? Can you think of any other symptoms associated with cushing's that you may have seen, such as huge appetite, thinning coat, skin problems, panting, muscle weakness, particularly in the hind quarters?

Cushing's is a very graded disease, progessing at a snail's pace so there is time to make certain the diagnosis is correct and even then, I'm not sure if I personally would choose to start treatment with so few symptoms. There is no cure for cushing's so the goal of treatment is to remedy symptoms that are usually more problematic for pet owners than the dog. There has been some recent schools of thought on the merits of starting treatment early but unless excess cortisol is complicating other underlying conditions such as diabetes or calcinosis cutis, I'm not convinced that early treatment for no good reason is wise.

You posted the results of the LDDS but I'm a bit confused by the two 0 hour numbers. Can you look at the report and make sure you posted that right? This result equates to the resting, also known as the basal, cortisol prior to injection of the dexamethasone. There should only be one number.

Looking forward to hearing more about Gunter and seeing those test results. We're here to help in any way we can and the more information you can give us, the better able we'll be to help you and your precious Gunter.

Glynda

[gunthersmom]

Hi Glynda

No urinalysis was done. Just a blood panel and then the LDDS, vet told me that if I did the LDDS that there wasn't any need to do the urine test. I will scan and email the LDDS results, have to call the vet again and ask for the other bloodwork as it wasn't faxed to me with the LDDS results. No ultrasound was done either, although he did recomend a x-ray.

As for other symptoms, other than a few dark patches on his tummy and under his front armpits and chest ( which I put down to old age/being so low to the ground) he has always been a big eater, from when he was a puppy, I have noticed no other symptoms that would have worried me about his health. I was also wondering if a few other things may have cause the high cortisol levels, like being at the vet, being poked, the new dog in the house that arrived in November, the fact that my 4 year old nephew was visiting the day of his original blood work etc. I asked the vet about it and he said it shouldn't affect the results, but am kinda questioning that.

I am going to take the blood results and go see another vet for a second opinion, because I'm still so undecided whether to treat him or not because he shows no other symptoms and is his normal happy self and really doesn't look like he's sick, nothing that would cause me to worry about him. This is also a new vet I'm seeing and I don't fully trust him either which makes this even harder.

I emailed a scanned copy of the LDDS results to the email address and will send the other results once I get them too.

Thanks for the help so far!

Angela

[mytil]

Here are the test results.

[Wally P's Mom]

Hello And Welcome:

Although this is something and some place, you really don't want to go. Once, you get all your answers, this is a OK thing. It takes time and knowledge, but it will be OK.

I have had 2 dachshunds go through this disease and one with diabetes. This is very common in dachshunds.

Knowledge is power. Be your dog's advocate.

Marge and Fritz

[doxiesrock912]

Marge is right.
I'm a recent member and the information that I have learned is AMAZING! Yes, it's scary but now that the disease is diagnosed, the better off Gunther will be.

Daisy weighs 11lbs and will be starting 10mg of Trilostane twice a day as soon as the pills are ready for me to pick up.

Cushing's is treatable!

[gunthersmom]

Thank you everyone!! The more I'm learning the less and less scary it is.

I have an appointment on Saturday morning with another vet for a second opinion, he was highly recommended by a family friend. So hopefully i'll be able to get more answers and information from him than I have so far from my current vet.

I'm still weighing up the pro's and con's of medicating him versus not medicating him and just keeping an eye on his symptoms etc.

Thanks again
Angela

[addy]

There is nothing wrong with that. Cushings is seldom an emergency for starting treatment.;)

[NoonelovesmelikeNorman]

Norman - 12 yr doxie - 8 mo cushings welcomes you...worth trilostane treatment - quality of life

but mama/papa know best (with knowl. and guidance) for our pups

Peace, sharon & Norman

[molly muffin]

I think that sounds like a good plan. It isn't a rush, you have time to learn as much as you can until you feel equipped to make the best decision possible for you and Gunther. That is what we are doing too. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Thanks everyone.

Am taking my mom with to the vet tomorrow too ( she's really good at playing the 20 million question game haha and will probably ask a bunch of stuff that I wouldn't even think about it asking)

But for now am just taking my time to learn everything that I can about the meds, the disease itself etc so that I can make the best decision for Gunther and myself.

For those that do medicate with Vetoryl, did your dogs have any side effects that happened? Did they stay or go away?

Angela

[addy]

http://www.dechra-us.com/Files/dechraUSA/downloads/Case%20Studies/Clinicians%20Brief-trilostane.pdf


Vomiting, lethargy and diarrhea are the most common side effects. My Zoe already had colitis issues and her colitis flared as soon as we started treatment with Vetoryl. It took about 3 weeks to resolve. Sometimes their hair/skin will get worse, dry and flaky. Their cortisol can drop like a ton of bricks those first 7-10 days so some pups just feel yucky until they get used to having lower cortisol. Sometimes a dog will have been self medicating with higher cortisol and as we lower it, arthritis and allergies may flare up.

To help minimize some of the side effects it is generally accepted to start dogs at 1 mg per pound. There is an old Dechra Vetoryl chart some vets still use that shows a higher starting dose. It is best to go with the new recommendations from Dechra as well as U.C. Davis protocol, both being 1mg per pound to start.

Some vets think the drug is very safe. A dog can go into crisis on this drug. You need to be aware of the severe adverse reactions that are possible,sometimes are short lived and sometimes not. Read all you can.

[gunthersmom]

Just got back from Gunthers 2nd opinion visit, this vet recommended ACTH stim test be done as well (. Gunthers there right now getting this done) he has recommended treatment with lysodren instead of vetoryl. He also says Gunthers liver is very enlarged already. He seems to think that Gunther would only have a year or two left if not treated. So looks like my mind has been made up and we'll stay treatment with lysodren and see how it goes.

Angela

[doxiesrock912]

Angela,

I know how scary this is, we're right here with you and Gunther.

[molly muffin]

We have some members here who have experience using lysodren, so can help you with any questions you might have.
Do you know what the load dose will be yet or when you are going to start?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Load dose will be 1/2 a tab twice daily and will probably start next weekend, have to arrange some time off work so I can be at home with him in case something happens, just gonna be hard to monitor his food and water intake because there are 2 other dogs in the house so still have to figure that part out. Might just have to separate him from them, which he is not gonna like at all, but I think that's probably the only way to do it.

Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Angela,

Can you tell me how much Gunther weighs?

Here is a link from our Helpful Resource section about Lysodren. It describes the loading phase and offers some really good tips from members. Several have printed it out to have handy.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

If all your babies eat and drink together, make extra note now, before starting the load, of how Gunther eats and drinks - his behaviors, the length of time it takes, if he drinks a lot at one time or comes to the bowl often...that sort of thing so you will be able to see a difference in him during the load. If you decide to separate them, I would go ahead a do it a day or so before you actually start the load so you can observe Gunther more easily.

You will do just fine. No need to fret. "Says the woman who ain't in your shoes!" ;) But I know you will be fine and we will be right here anytime you need to ask anything.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[gunthersmom]

Hi Leslie

He was 21.3 lbs this morning. Thought I would separate them tomorrow to get a baseline for him, vet recommended measuring his food and water in the morning and then seeing how much was left or how much more I had to add by bedtime.

I will definately take a read through the info and print it out, the vet gave me a bunch of stuff to read too.

Am sooooooooo thankful that I found this site and have so many knowledgeable people on here that are willing to help.

Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Thank, Angela! Just wanted to double check the dose and its good. :)

[gunthersmom]

Thanks for checking :) Am feeling more and more ok with the diagnosis now that i've learnt so much and had a chat with the vet this morning. I can do this!

Now just to convince work on monday that I need to take a week off when I start him on the meds :D. His Granny has decided that she will also take time off work to help watch him too. So she'll take the 2nd week off work.

[gunthersmom]

Good Morning All

Just got the results from Gunther's ACTH stim test. They are Cortisol pre 167 nmol/l ( normal range is 0-280) and Cortisol post is 1267 nmol/l ( normal range is 221-650)

We're starting Lysodren on saturday at 1/2 a tab every 12 hours to load and then will discuss with vet what his maintenance dose will be.

Am sooooo scared of this med because of it's side effects and how quickly it can drop their levels. Am taking next week off work so I can watch him 24/7 ( plus I wouldn't be able to focus at work knowing that he is at home possibly feeling sick from the meds)

Anyone have any experience with Lysodren and what I should be expecting as far as side effects go?

Angela

[frijole]

Hello! Don't be afraid of lysodren. Important thing is you understand how it works and your vet does also.

The dose you gave is for a dog weighing 22 lbs. Please confirm your dogs weight. If your dog is less than that I would be questioning it. The protocol is to take weight and divide by 2.2 to convert from lbs to kgs. KGS x 25 to 50 is the range of mgs you want your dog to have during loading daily.

Each pill is 500 mgs. That is how I calculated the desired maximum weight for this dose.

Did your vet instruct you to measure water intake prior to commencing so that you can monitor for change? If not start doing it. ;) I measured an amount and marked the bowl with tape. Then at the end of every day I figured out consumption based on what was left. You then know what is 'normal' for your dog and can look for decreases.

Also watch your dog for a few days before loading so you can look for changes in eating. Most cush dogs don't breath or chew their food.. pretty much they inhale it as their bodies are telling them they are starved when they are not.

Here is a link to very important info. Read it and ask us questions. Lastly do you have prednisone on hand to give with the lysodren? You need it no questions asked. Hope this helps! Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

[gunthersmom]

Hi Kim

Gunther weighs about 21.3lbs at his last visit last saturday.

The vet did recommend I measure his water intake, which I did on Sunday, Gunther had just over a litre of water in the 24 hours. Its harder for me to measure his food and water intake as there are 2 other dogs in the house as well and they all eat and drink from each others bowls. So I have to seperate Gunther from the other 2 to monitor him properly.

Gunther most definately inhales his food ( especially cheese, which is how I'm gonna hide the meds)we always used to joke that he doesn't chew his food and don't even think he tastes what he eats because it's gone so quickly.

Am picking up the script from the vet tonight and the prednisone tabs as well, he explained to me last night that having the prednisone on hand is an absolute must.

I have printed out all the info on that thread so that I have it on hand to refer to, as well as the printout the vet gave me about what to expect etc.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Hi Angela, it sounds like you are ready to go. I know this is a case of the nerves to start off with, but you'll do fine. Your vet is experienced with Lysodren it sounds like and has started you at the right dosage I think. (Kim or one of the others with experience can confirm that) and you'll be there with him to notice if anything seems off. If it does, that usually means the load is complete. He wont' drink as much and he won't inhale his food, etc.

You're doing just fine. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs, this is so hard, but you are doing a great job!

[frijole]

Sounds good! Dosage is fine. Kim

[gunthersmom]

Thanks everyone!!! Am very nervous to start this, but am sure as time goes on I'll become a pro at it like everyone else here!!!

Have all the info printed off and all the signs to watch out for highlighted, will be stuck on the fridge so that I can keep reading it and checking to make sure he's OK.

Angela

[doxiesrock912]

Angela,
as long as you have qualified vets helping you, things will be fine.

[frijole]

Helpful hint - always give lysodren AFTER eating so you can withold the pill if there is any hesitation. If you have any doubts whatsoever do NOT give the pill because you can't take it back and it continues to work for two more days!

Give it in cream cheese or similar as it coats the tummy and makes it easier to digest. You might notice some gas as your dog gets accustomed to it - this is normal. Not nice but normal. :D

Look for any signs of change and then cease giving it. Always feel free to ask us questions. Kim

[gunthersmom]

lol more gas??? He's already room clearing gassy, gonna have to invest in a gas mask or something!!!:D

Thought I would give it to him in cheese, he loves cheese and right now just swallows it without chewing! So will feed him and then give him the cheese/med ball as a "treat"

Am so glad that I found this page, think I would be way more stressed out and nervous about all of this if I didn't have this place to come to and get info and support.

Angela

[doxiesrock912]

Angela, Daisy was the queen of the "fart factory" believe me!
That should subside too once everything is under control.

Ask the vet about Fortiflora or something like this. It has helped Daisy immensely and I can breath in the same room again!

Nothing like hearing "Hi Daisy, hi puppy" and then "OH GAWD!!!!" two seconds later from my father.

Yes, for an 11lb dog, she could rip them out one after another, and another to infinity it seemed sometimes. I DO NOT miss that.

[gunthersmom]

lol. Will speak to the vet about the Fortiflora when I see him next. Am not looking forward to the gas at all, but will just have to deal with it. My Dad says I should hang a air freshner on his tail :D

Spoke to Gunther's brother's Mom as well to let her know what was going on with him so that she can keep an eye open for the signs in Oscar.

Picking up the Lysodren tonight from the pharmacy and starting tomorrow with it. Am a little nervous but am hoping the nerves will go away after a few days. Had a long chat with the vet last night about what to look for and when to stop giving the meds and when to give the prednisone if needed.

Angela

[molly muffin]

It'll be okay. We know you will be watching him like a hawk!

We're right here too if you have any questions at any time.

Funny about the air freshener, but hmmm, maybe not a bad idea either. Go dad!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Angela,

You are going to do just great and this time next month you will be wondering what you were so afraid of when you see your sweet boy acting like his old self once again!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[doxiesrock912]

BE warned.
Sometimes air freshener doesn't cover up the smell, but mixes with it and creates a whole new ultra nasty experience :)

[gunthersmom]

I can't wait for him to get back to his old self again!!!

Was just thinking about the whole air freshner thing, and am thinking that I'm just gonna have to learn to hold my breath for longer of keep a little hand held fan nearby to blow the stinky air the other way!

Angela

[gunthersmom]

Good morning everyone

I just gave Gunther his first dose of lysodren. Fed him a small meal of wet food, and hid the tab in a piece of cheese ( which he inhaled like I thought he would, don't even think he realized there was anything in it)

Now time for the watching and waiting to start, and hopefully no problems and loading done in a few days! And hopefully no more mommy meltdowns :D

Angela

[SoggyDoggy]

Good luck Angela! Mommy meltdowns are pretty common around here I think, but as long as we are there to wipe each others tears we are all good.

Not being a lysodren mum, I can't really offer any words of advice there, but as you have no doubt seen there are lots here who will gladly help you through it. I'll just stand around and offer a hand to hold instead. :)

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about the first Lyso dose into Gunther’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[frijole]

Congrats! I know it is scary at first. I remember being so terrified but you will come to feel as if this is a life saving drug as opposed to be scared. It does work. Key is to pay attention and if you have any doubts don't give the pill. You can ask here and we'll give you our two cents.

Kim

[molly muffin]

You'll be fine! :) You know all the things to watch for and if you have any questions, we are right here. Our lyso parents will jump in if you need specific information. It usually take at least a couple days even for the ones who are super fast loaders. :)

hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[gunthersmom]

Thanks everyone!! I honestly don't know what I would do if I hadn't found this site!! Just knowing I have so many knowledgeable people to help me through all of this helps sooooo much!!!

Angela

[gunthersmom]

So we just started day 3 of meds, Gunther doing well, no side effects other than the gas:eek: think he might be feeling a little icky, he's been more of a suck than normal since yesterday. But other than that he's still his normal self.

Angela

[Budsters Mom]

Hi,
It's still early yet. I'm glad to hear that Gunther is doing well so far.
Have you tried Pepcid AC for his tummy distress? It really helps Buddy. I give it too him 30 minutes before his Trilo with breakfast.
I got that gem of information from this forum, not from my vet. My vet's response, "it takes a while to adjust". That did not help Buddy. The Pepcid has! I don't know what other meds Gunter is taking. You might want to check with your vet before trying Pepcid.:)

Keep us posted on Gunther:)
Kathy and Buddy:)

[addy]

Signs of loading can be very slight; a brief pause while eating, or just stopping to look up at you a second rather than non stop inhaling of food.

I am not a Lysodren mom but I dont know that I would add something new to the mix while loading if you have not used Pepcid before.;)

Hopefully our experienced Lyso users will have an opinion on that.:)

You are doing a great job!!!

[gunthersmom]

Gunthers on no other meds besides the lysodren. The gas could also be from the cheese that I'm using to hide the tabs in, so I'm just dealing with the lovely aroma's wafting around lol.

Am keeping a very close eye on his eating and water intake. But so far no change, he almost seems to be hungrier than before. And he seems to be going to his treat drawer more often and letting me know he wants one, but then again it could just be that I'm home when I normally wouldn't be and he's just abusing that fact lol

Angela

[Trixie]

Hi Angela,
I am a newbie too. My dog Trixie started meds this past weekend and is also on day 3..she's on the Trilostane. Watching her like crazy but trying not to bother her too much. So glad for you that Gunther is doing fine! Giving the first pill had me in panic mode too and I was also so thankful to find this board. Hope Gunther continues to do well with his meds!! Barbara

[gunthersmom]

Thanks Barbara. Glad trixie is doing good too. The first few doses were nerve wracking to give, but is getting easier and easier. Watching him like a hawk, which luckily he doesn't mind, think he's just happy that I'm at home with him instead of at work. Luckily I have awesome bosses who let me take a week off with no notice to stay at home with him and watch him.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Just a quick check in, to see how Gunther is today. It'll be much more easy on the nerves once the loading phase is over with!

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Thanks for checking in!! Gunther doing good, seems a little more tired and is waaaaay more sucky than he normally is, also seems hungrier. But other than that all good, no change in how much water he drinks and is still wolfing down his food. But it's only day 4 and still have a way to go still before he's done loading.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Okay, that time again, check in!!! How is Gunther today? I know I'll probably do this all the time and bug the heck out of you. But once that load takes often the symptom stop really quickly, so day by day!
You're doing awesome.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

At the vet right now, he threw up about 20 mins ago and vet wanted to see him

[molly muffin]

Okay, the medicine stays in their system for I think 2 days with Lysodren. You'll want an ACTH test to see if he is loaded within that 2 day period too. The other lyso members can tell you what the optimal time for that test will be if your vet doens't.

Crossing fingers for you!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Ok just got home, vet seems to think that he's not done loading yet. He only threw up once but is ok other than that, he came straight back inside and ate and drank water, so vet seems to think that maybe he's tummy is upset more because of the cheese I've been using to hide the meds or maybe some of the stuffing he must have ingested when he destuffed his toy today. Told me to keep an eye on him and give him the pred if he throws up again tonight and bring him in tomorrow if he's still throwing up.

Ok now I can have my meltdown lol

Angela

[Harley PoMMom]

Sharlene is correct about the Lysodren working for 2 days, and the optimal time to have an ACTH stim test done is between 36-48 hours after the dose of Lysodren. BUT if any signs of cortisol going too low are seen, like vomiting, then it is best to have an ACTH done ASAP along with the electrolytes.

Please let us know how things are going as soon as you can.

Sending hugs and love, Lori

[molly muffin]

Okay, you can have a semi meltdown. :) We'll be right here with you. Lysodren can upset the tummy that is for sure. One of those that have used it can tell you what they did. Some I think gave pepcid an hour before giving the medicine. They'll be able to tell you better than myself. Some days the memory is better than others. :)

Hang in there, you are doing fine! That he came in and ate and drank some more is a good sign and he probably isn't loaded yet if that is the case.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Lysodren mom here - I don't see where the vet or anyone has asked if there have been any changes in water consumption or speed of eating/way of eating etc. Please give us as much detail as you can.

Any reduction in water, change in eating can be a sign of loading. Please don't give any more lysodren until we get these answers from you.

How many days have you been loading now? I remember the dosage was right around 50 mgs/kg which is spot on for most dogs.

Please answer so we can guide you. Thanks, Kim

[StarDeb55]

Angela, here's a very late welcome from me, too! I have not posted to you before but have been reading. I would like to emphasize what Kim has already asked you. The answers to those questions will help us to help you determine if your boy is loaded. I've treated 2 pups with lysodren so have plenty of experience.

Now, I do not want to scare the daylights out of you, but the following information you posted concerns me a lot.


maybe some of the stuffing he must have ingested when he destuffed his toy today My little 4 year old Shih Tzu mix ate the appendages off of one of his stuffed toys a year ago. He actually vomited up what were the feet off this toy & both the vet & I figured that was the end of it. This was on a Wednesday. Friday evening Obi started vomiting every 4 or 5 hours that afternoon & evening. He was eating & drinking fine. We went to bed & he simply could not get comfortable. He got up, went just outside of my bedroom door, & vomited, again. To make a long story short, we ended up at the emergency vet clinic where it was determined that Obi had a bowel obstruction from part of the stuffed toy still being in his GI tract. He went to surgery, & had probably a 3 inch long piece of stuffing that had blocked his intestinal tract removed, along with a section of his small intestine. He did sail right through what is very serious surgery, but if I had delayed much longer in getting him to a vet the outcome would not have been as good as it was. If this vomiting continues even sporadically, I would first try the prednisone. Pred should take effect relatively quickly, maybe 60-90 minutes. If the pred doesn't not seem to help your boy, please get him to a vet ASAP as I would be very concerned about the possibility of a bowel obstruction from eating the toy.

Debbie

[gunthersmom]

Ok meltdown done. Now I can answer questions lol.

Vet did ask about the water and food consumption. He wolfed down his breakfast and the cheese ball with the tab hidden in it this morning and has been eating his kibble throughout the day I haven't measured his water he's had so far today, but seems to be slightly less than yesterday ( he's averaging just over a litre a day right now) but still not down to the 2 and a half cups he should be at.

He's on day 5 today, started the lysodren on sat morning at half a tab twice daily.

Ad for the stuffing he normally doesn't eat it, just pulls it out and leaves it lying around the living room so it looks like it's snowed lol. He normally has an iron gut and very rarely throws up, but vet says that the lysodren might be making his tummy less iron like.

Hope I answered everything!!!!

Thanks for all the help!!! Dunno what I would do without all of you!!!!

Angela

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs for your meltdown, we all have them at one time or another and we all understand, you are doing great!!!

[frijole]

Angela, You are saying that there is no real change in eating and a slight decrease in water consumption. Any change whatsoever is significant and if you aren't doing poop patrol you are on it now. :) That means you must check the poop to make sure it isn't diarrhea or soft. As you get close to a load sometimes you notice it isn't as formed.

I remember someone whose dog loaded and the only sign they got was that their dog hesitated while eating (breathed). I am telling you we have seen people in your situation where the vet said keep giving it so they did and the dog ended up going too low so I don't care what the vet says - what I care about is what YOU are seeing.

You are the one that decides that there might be enough change to warrant the acth test. It is safer to pay for an unnecessary test than it is to risk cortisol going too low. Remember the pills work for 2 days after the last one so cortisol continues to go lower for 2 more days from your last dose.

It could just be the toy but keep your eyes on the look out and be very vigilant. Go with your gut always. Only you can know when it is time. Any doubts you stop and you schedule the acth test for 2 days from the last dose so you have a reading that is accurate.

Hope this makes sense. Trust me - my dog vomited a piece of popcorn during loading and I was freaking out - same as you. But I wasn't sure. Lesson learned - don't feed anything but food and normal treats during loading. Can't help you with the toy eating. :p

Kim

[gunthersmom]

Lol ok poop patrol starts tonight too.

Will give him his dose tonight, but if there's any hesitation with eating his dinner I won't give it to him and will take him back to the vet tomorrow.

My nerves are shot after this lol. Had a tub of hagen dagz for dinner lol, while being stared at and grumbled at because I didn't share any :D
Angela

[frijole]

Angela,

You got it and keep eating the ice cream - we all understand! Trust me once you get thru this loading it is so much easier. My dog took forever but when it was done she maintained that load for 4 1/2 yrs. Then it was just pop her the pill twice a week - occasional acth tests and she led a very happy life. It's all worth it.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions - that's why this site exists. KIM

[gunthersmom]

Thanks kim

Gunther inhaled his dinner with no hesitation what so ever, so gave him his tab and will just keep a close watch on him. The other 2 dogs not impressed that they're being kept separated but it has to be done. Thank goodness my parents live upstairs and they are helping keep them separated.

Angela

[gunthersmom]

Think my boy might be loaded!!! He actually walked away from his breakfast this morning to see what I was doing and then went back and finished it, he never leaves his food bowl if there's food in it. And I got woken up this morning with snuggles and kisses which he hasn't done in years!!! He also didn't eat his morning treat this morning when he normally inhales them. Didn't give him his tab this morning and think ill take him in to the vet to get the stim done.

Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

WOOHOO! You done great, Mom! That's how we do it! Great job watching your sweet boy!

[gunthersmom]

Am being cautiously optimistic that he's loaded. Waiting for the vet to open so I can call and see what they recommend if I do the test today or wait a day or two.

Angela

[frijole]

Caution - you'll probably be talking to the front counter and they are notorious for giving false info. Your best best - you gotta trust me is to schedule it 2 days from the last dose. Don't do it today - earliest tomorrow that way the cortisol will go down and you can read it at it's lowest point and get a clearer picture on how the drug performed.

Congrats! Kim

PS Clear signs of loading and you did a great job!

[gunthersmom]

Thanks!!! Left a message with the front desk asking the vet to call me back so I can talk to him about it. The other thing I forgot to mention is that his water intake yesterday was almost down to what he should be having, he had about 3 cups and should be having 2 and a half.

Angela

[frijole]

Oh yeah all good signs Angela. Don't let them talk you into waiting. Wonderful news. Kim

[gunthersmom]

Just spoke to the vet and he said the exact same thing, to wait until at least tomorrow before we redo stim test, not to give him any more lysodren.

Yay!!!! Doing a happy dance:D
Angela

[frijole]

Great that means your vet must get it. LOL We love seeing that. Fingers crossed.

[gunthersmom]

He does, my previous vet didn't, which is the main reason I left, spoke to him after I did all my research and a lot of what he was saying I should do and how I should treat it kinda seemed odd so I questioned him on it and was told I didn't know anything and that he knows better cause he's the vet, so I left lol.

[doxiesrock912]

Oh how well I know THAT attitude! I left two vets before seeing an IMS.

Congratulations!!!!

[molly muffin]

Whoo hoo! Way to go Gunther! Morning kisses are the bestest too!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Morning kisses are the best!!!!! Haven't had them in years!!!!! Got tons of kisses and snuggles this morning and loved it!!!! Makes all the stress and worry worth it, my lovable snuggly boy is coming back!!!!

Thanks for all the support and help from everyone on here. Don't think I could have made it through all of this without you guys!!!

Angela

[molly muffin]

You did awesome! It does help to have a whole group of people whose brains you can pick any time you want. I rather like that aspect of k9cushings too. And support out the ying yang. LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Ok stim test done this morning, should have results tomorrow. Mommy did some retail therapy while Gunther was at the vet :D now we back at home snuggled on the couch.

[molly muffin]

We like retail therapy or at least I do. :)

Hoping for fab results.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[DoreneT]

Hi there,
We just found out on Thurs. that our Llasa has Cushing's also. After several discussions with our vet about excessive drinking and frequent accidents in the house, he tested for Cushing's, which turned up positive for "pituitary" type. We started the Vetoryl, 30mg, 2x daily yesterday evening. We are concerned about the side effects also, but don't know of proven alternatives. We're watching our 12 year old "puppy" carefully, hoping that the meds work, but don't have a negative impact.
It seemed like the dosage our vet chose, was a bit of a guess, because our dog, Tucker, is a medium size.
We would really appreciate any knowledge and suggestions.
Thank you,
Dorene

[gunthersmom]

Loooooooove retail therapy lol. Even tho I bought more stuff for Gunther and my nephew than I did for myself.

Dorene I would start another thread so that everyone can see your post, the people here are very knowledgeable and they have all helped me immensely, I'm treating Gunther with lysodren, but am sure the moms who are using the vetoryl will jump in and help you, be prepared for lots of questions, the more info you can give the more everyone can help you. Just breathe and take in the knowledge from the awesome folks on here!!!!

Angela

[doxiesrock912]

Doreen,
how much does Tucker weigh?
Daisy is 11lbs and takes 5mg twice a day which seems to work for her.

Every dog is different, but it's best to start on the low side and work up from there if necessary.

At first, Daisy started showing improvement within 3 days but by the end of the week, she was always sleeping and refused to eat. These are signs to look for that indicate that the dose is too high. She was on 10mg twice a day which was too high.

[Harley PoMMom]

Dorene and members,

I have moved/copied Dorene and Tucker's post, plus additional posts pertaining to them, into their new Thread located here: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193

Love and hugs,
Lori

[gunthersmom]

Si the vet just called with Gunthers results, and he was a little too low, so have to give him the prednisone for the next few days. Knew something was up with him this morning, he doesn't want to eat anything and just isn't himself, seems very depressed and is uber sucky. Had to shove the pred down his throat cause he wouldn't even eat the cheese that I had hidden it in, which is his absolute favorite food.

Ok deep breathes, it'll all be ok.

Angela

[frijole]

Angela, You just experienced the 48 hr factor where it keeps lowering for 2 days. Please tell us the numbers on the test. Saying TOO LOW isn't good enough. You/we need to know exactly what low is according to the vet. Anything under 1.0 is considered addisonian (talking about the 2nd number on the test). Depending on the number you might need to take him in to have his electrolytes checked out.

Also if you haven't already start a log/diary of all test results. Trust me it comes in handy up the road because none of us can remember all this stuff and you might need to refer to it.

Hang in there. How many prednisone doses did he tell you to give and how large was the dosage you just gave? Thanks! Kim

PS at least you had prednisone on you! It is a must but we often see dogs here that weren't given it and it always happens on a weekend!

[gunthersmom]

Am going to go pick up a copy of the test results this afternoon so will let you know the exact numbers once I have it.

Just gave him 2.5mg of pred about 2 hours ago, vet said to give him another dose tonight if he's still not eating etc. And to keep giving it to him until his appetite comes back. Then after a week will discuss maintenance dosing.

I have a folder with copies of all his test results just in case anything happens and he needs to see another vet.

Angela

[frijole]

I just checked and the prednisone dosage you are on is the proper amount for a rescue dose (.25 mgs per kg of weight) Know that once using prednisone you must slowly wean off of it so if it isn't needed for the 2nd dose don't do it. But if he isn't eating or drinking by all means give it. It mimics cortisol so it is replacing what he's missing.

Kim

[gunthersmom]

He won't be needing that second dose. He's already started eating and drinking :D he just had some water and some of his kibble and he doesn't seemed as depressed as he was earlier still not 100% yet but it has only been about 2 hours since I gave him the pred

Thank you sooooo much, I was gonna hit freak out meltdown mode again.

Angela

[frijole]

He may not even be addisonian - will be interesting to see the number on the test. Glad he's eating. :) Kim

[gunthersmom]

Going to vet with my mom and her dog this afternoon at about 4:30 PST. So will get copy of the test then and will let u know what the numbers were. Gonna steal a few mins of her appointment to speak to him about Gunther some more.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Hugs! I know that was a scare for you. It will be okay though. I'm so glad that your vet seems to be very experienced with Lysodren, so knew to give you the pred, check him out again in a few days (a week I think you said) and then adjust the maintenance dose. That is all very important and the kind of thing that will keep Gunther on the right track.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

You will probably cut the dose a wee bit but I don't want to go there til we see the results. Some vets who aren't real experienced or are conservative might think that 2.5 is low even though it is within the desired range. That's why the numbers are important. If the cortisol is real low you might have to wait a bit and then do another acth test to make sure he's at a good number prior to starting maintenance.

If he hadn't gone low you wouldn't start maintenance til one week after the last loading dose just as a reference point. We'll have a better feel once you get the results.

Is he drinking water? You want to make sure he gets enough water also. Good thinking on having a brief chat with the doc when you go in to get questions answered. You are doing great. Kim

[gunthersmom]

Ok just got back from the vet, Gunthers test results are, cortisol pre <27.6 nmol / l ( ref range is 0-280) and cortisol post is < 27.6 nmol / l ( ref range is 221-650). Vet recommended I give him another half tab of pred tonight and tomorrow morning again.

Angela

[frijole]

OK converting those numbers you are right at (a tad under) 1.0. That means you need to be careful and watch him like a hawk. It is great that he ate already. Hopefully he keeps it up. To be honest I am a bit surprised the vet didn't have him come in to have electrolytes checked. Is he drinking water? what some have done is purchase Pedialyte and put a bit 50/50 or less in water. Pedialyte replaces electrolytes. Get the clear stuff without flavor and he'll probably not notice the difference.

You need to watch for vomit or diarrhea and signs of lethargy. Since you are giving the prednisone and he ate you probably won't see any signs until you try to wean him. At this point your goal is to keep him comfy and let his body regenerate the adrenal cortex a bit so that he can naturally produce cortisol again and not need to be supplimented by the prednisone. This will probably take more than another day.

So long as he is eating and isn't sick and is drinking you are OK. If anything is off take him in and tell the vet you want his electrolytes checked.

I just noticed something - the test results say less than 27.6 but don't say how low. Is there any other number on the test? That means he could be lower than 1.0 and I'd want to know how low he is.

Are you in Canada? I'm asking because the labs in the US measure differently and even if they are below normal we get a number.

I don't want to scare you - eating is a sign he will be fine and generate cortisol with time. I just want you to continue to keep a very close eye on him and watch all his poops like a hawk.

Hang in there and keep posting updates! Sending hugs, Kim

[gunthersmom]

I asked the vet about the numbers too and he said that that's the lowest number the test goes to. He's been eating and drinking and will get some pedialyte tomorrow, I have some gatorade at home so will give him a bit of that for tonight.

Yip am in Canada, guess our tests are different up here lol.

Just double checked on how long I have to give him the pred for and my mom says vet said half a tab tonight and the Half a tab tomorrow morning and Monday morning again.

Am watching him like a hawk and will keep a close eye on him while on poop patrol.

Guess I'll be taking more time of work lol

Angela

[frijole]

Angela, I wouldn't just stop giving the pills on Monday. I would slowly wean like cut the dose in half and then in half again because their system is so delicate you want to avoid a crash.

It really bothers me that there is no reading on that test. I have never seen that - not even with all of the results we've gotten in Canada and overseas. That would be like saying your blood sugars are high but no number. It doesn't make sense because that test is specifically designed to test cortisol. The other thing I noticed is that the lab that did them gave you reference ranges for normal that are for 'normal non cushinoid' dogs. Normally they adjust it for cush dogs. Cush dogs should be between a 28 and 140. (1-5 here in the states)

The other reason you want to know how low he went is because that helps you know how long to wait before you attempt maintenance dosing. I think I would insist on another acth test before starting maintenance just to be sure you are above 1.0 or 28 in your case.

It is great that he's eating and drinking. I think he'll be fine but I am just being extra cautious and making sure I share everything I can. You are absorbing it like a sponge which really helps! :) Work is overrated! LOL Kim

[gunthersmom]

I'm extra cautious too about all this, he's my baby and I wanna do the best that I can for him.

Thank you for all your help, I would be lost without it!!!!!

I'll ask that they do another stim test before starting maintenance just to be sure, hated seeing him the way he was this morning, but he's now back to his normal self. Will give him the half tab tonight and tomorrow morning and do a quarter tab Monday morning? Or should I do half a tab until Mon and then do a quarter on tues?

Unfortunately I have to work to pay for all his tests and meds while trying to save to go to south Africa in october for my best friends wedding. Luckily his granny can work from home so she'll stay home with him on monday.

[frijole]

Oh I'm glad you asked about the dosing.. I assumed you had plenty of the pills. I was suggesting you continue giving him the full dose thru Monday as your vet instructed and then taper it off... If I knew the cortisol level it might not be a big deal but if it's real low you want to make sure you keep supplying him cortisol with the prednisone. You can call the vet and ask but I just know from being here around 8 yrs that it is best to taper even if you just go from whole to 1/2 to none. Kim

[gunthersmom]

I have about 9 pred tabs left after I give him his half a tab tonight. So ill give him half tomorrow morning and half Monday morning and then do a quarter on tues. I know all about stopping the pred suddenly, I did that to myself, it wasn't fun at all.

[molly muffin]

Hi Kim, I think it is the labs up here in Canada, because Molly's LDDS test remember came back as <27.59 and no reading at all for below that. It would be like <1 but nothing else. I'm thinking it is the same thing with the ACTH test here.
I agree with Kim, not knowing how far below he went, you definitely want to know where he is at prior to starting any maintenance dose. Boy he loaded pretty fast.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[StarDeb55]

Angela, I don't believe I have posted to you previously but I have definitely been following Gunther's story. I'm a lab tech with 30+ years experience, so I thought I could help out with an explanation of Gunther's stim results. I just read Gunther's ACTH results. Here's what the deal is with the results being reported out as <27.6. All lab tests will have an upper & lower limit of linearity. This is the lowest or highest reading that a specific test on a specific analyzer can read & still be accurate. To give you an example from a human lab test in my lab, our CBC analyzer when it counts platelets is only accurate down to 5,000. If we get a patient that the analyze reads 1-4,000, we must report that result as <5,000 as the analyzer is not accurate below that number. The high numbers are usual not a problem on most tests as we would simply dilute the sample & re-run the diluted sample. So whatever analyzer the vet lab is using to do serum cortisol must have a lower limit of linearity of 27.6.

Hope this helps.

Debbie

[frijole]

Hi Kim, I think it is the labs up here in Canada, because Molly's LDDS test remember came back as <27.59 and no reading at all for below that. It would be like <1 but nothing else. I'm thinking it is the same thing with the ACTH test here.
I agree with Kim, not knowing how far below he went, you definitely want to know where he is at prior to starting any maintenance dose. Boy he loaded pretty fast.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks Sharlene. Well that is messed up! LOL

[gunthersmom]

Thanks Debbie, that helps a lot, it makes more sense now.


Even the vet was surprised that he loaded so quickly, I'm sooooooooo glad that he did tho. Vet thinks his maintenance dose will be around a quarter tab twice a week, but he hasn't done the exact math on it yet.

Have to take my mom's dog back to the vet next sat too so will talk to him about redoing the stim test again before starting maintenance. (. We just found out today that moms 13 year old min pinscher has congestive heart failure, so she's on meds for that now) and has to go for a follow up visit to see how the meds are working.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Oh I hope your mom's little dog will have a good follow up test too. When it rains it pours doesn't it.
I guess they'll be reserving a parking spot with your name on it at the vets office? :)
One of our members, I'm pretty sure has her spot in gold over the summer as she was spending so much time there. :)

You're doing great!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Lol yeah a few more visits and I get my own gold plated parking spot at the vet :D

I don't even get receipts anymore because I don't even want to think about how much I'm spending on this. My travel savings account is total empty now, but sooooooooo worth it, I'm starting to see my baby boy come back and seeing my happy baby back is worth every cent in this world!!!!

[gunthersmom]

So Gunther doing much better today, was even running around the back yard chasing my brothers beagle!!!

The bad side is that I have to go back to work tomorrow. Wish I could win the damn lottery already lol.

Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Angela

[frijole]

That is fantastic news! Did you reduce the prednisone or leave it at full dose? Just curious. If he's running he is feeling good. Kim

[gunthersmom]

Just gave him half a tab this morning ( he had half a tab yesterday morning and last night) and will have him another half tab tomorrow morning and then a quarter tab on tues

He's feeling much better today. Was running around playing, chasing the other dogs, playing his version of fetch, where I throw a toy, he chases it, then turns around and looks at me and kinda goes well now what? You don't expect me to bring it back do you? Lol

Angela

[molly muffin]

hahahaha, so glad to see that Gunther is feeling himself again. :)

LOL yea, where is that lottery at anyway!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[doxiesrock912]

That's great news!

[Squirt's Mom]

So good to hear this, Angela!

[gunthersmom]

Thanks everyone!!! wouldn't have been able to get through all this without you guys!!!

Gunther is at home with his Granny today, who didn't want him left on his own just yet ( I also think she just wanted an excuse to stay home for a few days too) so she'll be puppysitting today and tomorrow until he comes off the pred to make sure he doesn't have a reaction. Granny says Gunther is happily lying in the sun on the back deck with the other dogs and has been very playful and active today.

Am so glad that he's feeling better, after the way he was on sat morning when his levels were so low and he was so depressed and lethargic, thought my heart was gonna break seeing him like that.

angela

[Simba's Mom]

So glad to hear that Gunther is feeling better!!!

[gunthersmom]

So a quick update on Gunther.

We are now in week 3 of maintenance and he is a different dog!!! He is like a puppy again. He is more active, plays more and seems to be happier!!! Before he was a total couch potatoe, now he is a lot more active, asks for his walk everyday instead of me having to drag him out, he can walk for longer too.

Will be going in for the ACTH stim test next weekend and hopefully he has stabilized.

Angela

[Budsters Mom]

Great update! I love to hear good news!

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[frijole]

Oh you made my day. Thanks for giving us the good news. Kim

[Fellasmom]

Angela
Great news!Must be wonderful to see Gunther acting like a pup!
Patty

[gunthersmom]

I actually had a happy tears meltdown a few nights ago when I was watching him play with my brothers dog. They were running around chasing each other ( I call it the zoomies) when they do the crazy running around, around the kitchen, under the dining room table, onto the couch and repeat :D Then they were wrestling in the living room and just being dogs, felt sooooo good to see it, that I had happy tears just streaming down my face.

Angela

[Belle's Mommy]

My English Bulldog Belle, 6yrs 8months, has been on Vetoryl since about April 12, 2012. The only side effect that I have seen so far is her stool is a little runny at times and she has bad gas. Worse than normal for Bulldogs.

She is beginning to want to play more and not get tired as fast as before. We are here for support!

Welcome to the group from Jennifer and Belle!

[Trixie]

Such good news about Gunther. You must feel so relieved! We love the "zoomies" too. My Trixie used to be quite a zoomer. She will still do it once and awhile after a bath when she's super frisky! Happy to hear Gunter is feeling so great! :D
Barbara

[molly muffin]

It's always good to see them running and playing. When you've gone through the terrifying, am I going to lose them and then bounce back to the "zoomies". It's a real emotional swing. I'd be bawling right there with you! :)

You're doing great.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Just had a question for the lysodren mom's. I have noticed that Gunthers coat is getting dull, feels more wiry, his skin seems drier
and he's shedding more. I have been giving him fish oil to try help. Was just wondering if this is normal with the lysodren?

Other than that he is feeling much better, I still can't believe the change in him.

[frijole]

It never happened to me but others have said that after the lysodren starts working the coat blows itself out - sheds and regrows. Some reported the color was even a bit different. So I'd say this is normal and the hair will be fine. Glad you have seen great results. Keep us posted and don't forget to get regular acth testing done to make sure you keep that load. :) Kim

[gunthersmom]

Thanks:). Was starting to get a little worried about it. We have the first ACTH yet on sat, today started week 4 of maintenance so here's hoping the results are good :)

[frijole]

Good girl. Fingers crossed! Kim

[gunthersmom]

So just got the call from Gunther's vet about his last ACTH stim test we did on saturday. His levels are still too high :( pre 309 (ref 0-280) and post 689 ( ref 221-650) Vet is upping his Lysodren from 1/4 tab twice weekly to 1/3 of a tab three times weekly, retest in 30 days again.

Angela

[frijole]

Angela,

If I recall you successfully loaded and were on maintenance around the first of May. The test results you posted when translated to US terms are just under 25 which is totally uncontrolled cushings. Upping the dose and not reloading i fear will not work because it is too high.

Can you do us a favor and please repost the test results of every single acth test that was done so far - I think there aren't that many. Also indicate when dosing started and maintenance began... like this:

acth prior to starting lysodren on (date and results)

started lysodren at x mgs per day on (date)

first test after starting lysodren on (date and results)

started maintenance dosage at x mgs per x (date)

etc

This way we can look for anything out of line. Thanks! Kim

[gunthersmom]

OK here goes.

ACTH prior to starting, done on April 6
pre 167(ref 0-280) post 1267 ( ref 221-650)

Started Lysodren on April 13 at 500mg daily ( was given as half a tab twice daily)

Next ACTH done on April 19 , don't have those results on me, but he went too low.

Started Prednisone on April 20 for 4 days tapering the dosing off. And was told to give him a week or two before starting maintenance.

Started Lysodren maintenance on May 4 at 125mg twice weekly ( 1/4 tab)

And this last test, done on June 1.

Thanks for all the help!!!

I can't afford to take more time off work to reload him again, used the last of my vacation time in April when we first started this. And with the cost of his vet bills I can't take any unpaid time off work either. So am hoping ( and his vet is too) that just upping the meds will work.

Angela

[frijole]

ACTH prior to starting, done on April 6
pre 167(ref 0-280) post 1267 ( ref 221-650) Converted the 2nd number is 45.25

Started Lysodren on April 13 at 500mg daily ( was given as half a tab twice daily)

Next ACTH done on April 19 , don't have those results on me, but he went too low. Please get them because I want to see what the vet's definition of LOW is

Started Prednisone on April 20 for 4 days tapering the dosing off. And was told to give him a week or two before starting maintenance.

Started Lysodren maintenance on May 4 at 125mg twice weekly ( 1/4 tab) Here's where it went wrong. In order to maintain the load you give the same dose you were giving. If he went real real low you lower a bit but you cut it in half going from 500 mgs during the load to 250 mgs for maintenance. This is why the cortisol went up - the dose was too low

And this last test, done on June 1.
pre 309 (ref 0-280) and post 689 in US this is = 24.60 ( ref 221-650) Vet is upping his Lysodren from 1/4 tab twice weekly (250 mgs/week) to 1/3 of a tab three times weekly 500 mgs, retest in 30 days again.

OK so you can see why he is too low - the vet got too conservative I assume - would love to see the results of the test where he went low. Personally I would try reloading at a dose between the 250 that doesn't work and the 500 that was too high but upping the 3 times a week might work. I just haven't seen this method work very often. Usually it's a reload at a lower dose.

Please get the results from the missing test as it is key to guessing at the right dosage. Kim

PS You don't need to take off from work - you should be totally fine because you aren't giving a pill a day you are giving a pill a week. The bigger challenge is if it will reduce the cortisol low enough.

[gunthersmom]

If I remember right his test where he went too low was less than 27.9 for both pre and post (if I remember right the test only goes that low). But will get exact numbers when I get home, have them in his folder on my desk.

I was just worried that if we had to load again that I would have to take time off to watch him as last time he loaded in 6 days and then went too low and if I hadn't been at home to catch it in time I don't know what could have happened.

I'll post the other results as soon as I get home tonight. Or if I have time in a bit will go through my previous posts because I think i had posted those results too.

[gunthersmom]

Ok found my post about the missing test results, both the pre and post numbers where <27.6 (as low as the test measures)

[frijole]

That makes sense. What we have learned however is that the 250 mgs per week is not enough. What they should have done is another acth test prior to starting back at it 2 weeks later just to make sure that cortisol had risen enough. Obviously it did so you were safe.

Again give it a shot at a pill a week split into 3 doses. Are you seeing any of the symptoms returning? I'd think so. Kim

[gunthersmom]

Haven't really noticed any of the symptoms coming back, but it's really hard to monitor food and water intake with 3 dogs in the house. He was a little lethargic yesterday but he spent most of Saturday running around playing with my 5year old nephew so figured that was why.

He also lost a bit of weight last weigh in a month ago he was 21.4lbs and sat he was 20.7lbs.

[frijole]

Cush dogs eat like vacuum cleaners and drink buckets of water. What symptoms did your boy have before you started all of this that led you to cushing's testing? Kim

[gunthersmom]

I didn't even know about Cushing's until my previous vet brough it up at Gunther's annual visit in March. He had asked if I noticed he was eating/drinking more, told him the same thing that I hadn't noticed but it was possible ( Gunther has always inhaled his food from when he was a puppy so didn't really think too much about it). Did notice that he was peeing more in the house than before ( if he can't get out he'll go pee on my bath mats, at least they're easy to clean lol)and I had noticied that he went from doing that maybe once a week to almost everyday, sometimes more than once a day The vet noticied the pot belly, and when he felt Gunther's tummy said he could feel his liver was enlarged and he kinda suspected it, so did the geriatric blood panel just to see what was going on. And when that came back with the severly elevated liver enzymes we did the LDDS which came back positive and then did the first ACTH test.

But once we got the diagnosis and I actually kept him seperate from the other dogs for a few days I saw how much he really ate and drank, and it kinda made sense then. ( I always blamed Stitch, the beagle, for having to refill all the food bowls every day or two.) But turns out it was probably actually Gunther who was wolfing down all the kibble.

But my boy is definately feeling better ( even if he's not 100% there yet) and that's what makes all the time and money worth it. Seeing him act like a puppy again makes you forget about the vet bills:D

[gunthersmom]

OK, so just got Gunther's latest test results, and it's all good!!!!

Cortisol Pre 99.9 ( ref 0-280)
Cortisol Post 135 ( ref 221-650)

So his dosage will stay at 1/3 of a tab of Lysodren 500mg 3 times a week.

Soooooo excited!!!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

WOOHOO!! Way to go Gunther and Mom! :D

[gunthersmom]

Thanks :D It feels great to finally be here!!! When all this started I was soooo overwhelmed by all of it. Thank goodness for everyone on here, don't think I would have made it through all of this without you guys!!!!!

[Boriss McCall]

Glad things are going well for you & Gunther. yay!!!

[molly muffin]

Yay!!!!! This is great news!!!! So happy for you and Gunther!!!! :)

Party hat's needed. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gunthersmom]

Party hat time this weekend for Gunther!!!! His Granny and Grandpa want to take him with camping in their RV. Where I know he will get horribly spoilt!!!!!

[molly muffin]

oh gee, do they need someone to come along and make sure everything is going well??? :) Give meds? ROFL Help spoil Gunther???? :p

Sharlene and molly muffin

[gunthersmom]

lol. Such a hard life for the dogs in my house!!!! Can see him coming home a few pounds heavier after this weekend!!

[Trixie]

great news for Gunther...and you too! So nice that things are going in the right direction and that Gunther is feeling good!

Barbara