View Full Version : Buddy, The Mighty Lizard Hunter - Suspected Pituitary Macro Tumor
Budsters Mom
03-30-2013, 08:33 AM
Buddy, My 10-year-old large Yorkie has recently been diagnosed with Pituitary dependent Cushing's. After $1600 in tests and vet bills, this Diagnosis was confirmed. His illness came on very suddenly, although he's probably had Cushings for several years, Although I didn't know it. A few weeks ago he had a restless night and then woke up vomiting the next day. He also was so weak he was practically unable to stand. His back legs were wobbly and would not hold him up. After taking him to the vet and having numerous tests including blood work and x-rays, we were referred to the emergency hospital for a ultrasound. His liver was so large that they thought he had a tumor. It was difficult to see his other organs. Buddy was stabilized and set home. He was able to eat a meal normally in the hospital and kept it down. Cushing's was suspected by both hospitals. We left with the referral to specialty hospital for a neurology consultation. Due to the extreme weakness in his hind limbs, a consultation was needed to see if Buddy was even a candidate for Cushings treatment. In the meantime Buddy became Stronger and was able to move easier, but still very wobbly. The neurologist gave Buddy clearance to go ahead and have Cushing's testing. He was given the low dose eight hour test a few days later at his regular vet. That is when pituitary dependent Cushing's was confirmed. Five days ago trilostane treatment was started. Buddy weighs 16 pounds and is on 20 mg once per day. He is not fat, just a large Yorky. He has been having many stomach upsets since treatment started. He has had a gassy, sour stomach but hasn't vomited and has eaten normally. Right now it's 4:24 AM and he's been up with an upset stomach all night And hasn't been able to settle. I'm going to call the vet in the morning. Have any of you tried giving your Cushing dogs Pepto-Bismol? Do your dogs get upset stomachs with trilostane? Does it eventually go away once they adjust to the medication? I have to take Buddy back for another blood test to check his levels 7 to 10 days after starting the medication. Can anybody give me any help or insight in the meantime? It would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.
Squirt's Mom
03-30-2013, 09:29 AM
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Squirt's Mom
03-30-2013, 09:44 AM
Hi Mom and welcome to you and Buddy! :)
Something many of us use to help with tummy upsets is Pepcid AC - be sure it is the AC form only - not time released, fast acting, etc, just plain Pepcid AC. Tagamet is another one used. Generic Pepcid AC is Famotidine; generic Tagamet is Cimetidine. Most stores have their own brands under the generic names that will save a few pennies. Do call your vet tho and let them know how the Trilostane (Vetoryl) is affecting sweet Buddy.
If you don't have them, get copies of the actual tests results so far and post them here in Buddy's thread. That will help us, help you. ;)
We are a Lysodren (MItotane) house so I will let our Trilo parents talk to you about that. But I will tell you that any time the diagnostic tests for Cushing's are given while another illness is present, it makes the diagnosis suspect because so many things can cause the tests to give false-positives and share the same signs as Cushing's. Also, Cushing's does not come on suddenly....it is a very slowly progressing condition. So seeing all those tests done before starting treatment will be beneficial. Also, the more detail you can tell us about Buddy the better. We LOVE details! ;):D See all the questions that follow? :p
Is he having any issues with his vision?
Is he neutered?
Does he have any other health issues that you are aware of?
Is he on any other meds, supplements, herbs, etc? If so, what?
How is his appetite?
Any loose stools or diarrhea since starting the Trilo?
What signs were you seeing before the diagnosis and have they lessened, gotten stronger or are they about the same since starting treatment?
Here is a link to our Helpful Resources section that will give you a lot of info on Trilostane (Vetoryl) - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185
I'm glad you found us and want you to know it is always safe to cry, or talk, share your fears and hopes, even scream here. You and Buddy have a new family now and we will be with you every step of the way. Keep your chin up and keep reading and talking to us. I'm very glad you and Buddy are here!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
His illness came on very suddenly, although he's probably had Cushings for several years, Although I didn't know it. A few weeks ago he had a restless night and then woke up vomiting the next day. He also was so weak he was practically unable to stand. His back legs were wobbly and would not hold him up. After taking him to the vet and having numerous tests including blood work and x-rays, we were referred to the emergency hospital for a ultrasound. His liver was so large that they thought he had a tumor. It was difficult to see his other organs.
Hi and Welcome,
Yes, Trilostane/Vetoryl can cause an upset stomachFDA report of a study when first approving the drug"
Adverse Reactions: Adverse reactions are reported here using the entire enrolled population of 75 dogs. Five dogs were withdrawn because of adverse reactions including lethargy, anorexia/inappetence, not drinking, vomiting, diarrhea, and muscle tremors.
[QUOTE]The most common adverse reactions were vomiting (17.3 %), lethargy (17.3%), diarrhea/loose stools (14.7%), and anorexia (6.7%). Other adverse reactions were: nocturia, upset stomach, corneal ulcer, cough, persistent estrus, vaginal discharge and vulvar swelling in a spayed female, hypoadrenocorticism, electrolyte imbalance (elevated potassium with or without decreased sodium), collapse and seizure, shaking, constipation, scratching, weight gain, and weight loss.
Conclusions: Trilostane was effective in lowering post-ACTH stimulation cortisol levels and improving clinical signs in dogs with pituitary- and adrenal-dependent hyperadrenocorticism. The most comment adverse reactions were vomiting, lethargy, diarrhea, and anorexia.
But I am concerned. I know it is hard to write down everything and/or remember but could you round up copies of any blood work done and post abnormal findings? Cushings does not come on suddenly and should not he used in dogs with primary liver disease. Are the vets saying Cushings is the cause of the enlarged liver? Did the neurologist say the leg problems are soley due to muscle wasting from Cushings? It just feels like a part of the puzzle is missing.
Glad you found us
Simba's Mom
03-30-2013, 12:45 PM
Hi and welcome to you and Buddy, take some deep breaths, we are here for you..Those tummy issues can be hard to deal with, the cush parents here have some great ideas..My Simba has tummy issues too, I feed him more small meals then 2 bigger ones, seems to help with him...also when he has flare ups, I make an egg for him, seems to settle things down...He eats turkey foods, seems to be better for him...its sometimes a guessing game to see what works for our cush pups, just keeping asking and you will get lots of info from this site, and a hand to hold along the way! Sending hugs!
Budsters Mom
03-31-2013, 12:05 AM
I have been trying to post an update to answer some of the questions that were asked of me and post test information. I am new to this site as of early this morning. I checked my email like I was supposed to and connected to login properly. My post still is not showing up. I am obviously doing something wrong. Please bear with me if it ends up being posted a couple of times. As I'm going to try to do it again. Thank you for understanding.
Hello again. My name is Kathy. Thank you for being willing to help us and for your outpouring of love and support. Before Buddy was diagnosed with Cushings, I had never heard of it before. This is my very first forum I found you out of desperation. But he is not only the light of my life, he is also my best friend. The thought of not being able to help him weighs heavily on my mind and heart. You asked for details, so here goes!
First, I'd like to answer some of your questions. Buddy is neutered he was neutered at six months. He has always had many allergies. They have shown in various skin issues ,allergies to food and environmental sneezing, runnynose and wheezing allergies. They have practically been nonexistent the last couple of years. They returned in full force after starting Trilo. Could this be due to a drop in his cortisol levels? Other then these issues, he has been basically healthy. His allergies have been controlled by an occasional dose of Benadryl.
About a year ago I noticed that he was slowing down. He was no longer able to jump up on the cedar chest to see out. I made an ADA approved ramp For him to use instead. He needs to be able to get to the window for his job, which is guard duty. He takes it very seriously. Lizard hunting is another important job. About six months ago but he started having trouble getting up the ramp. One he made it up there, he would have a hard time getting down and would freeze. He would stay there until someone came to help him down. I finally had to end up taking down the ramp. Right around that same time I noticed that but he could no longer get through his doggie door Or go up one small step to get back into the house. His beautiful hair started thinning about a year ago. I wasn't overly concerned because he always had so much of it. It now takes a long time for his hair to grow back in after grooming and I have to be very careful when I groom him. The doctor said that Buddy skin was thin? That was something that I hadn't noticed. Although he was showing mobility issues, I Thought these concerns were due to normal aging. Buddy up until becoming really ill, was always happy an active, happy, little guy. He started drinking more water the last few years. In fact, lots of it. He would drain most of a bowl and then Be drinking again a few minutes later. When he urinates, It's as if a dam has burst. I don't know where he puts it all! So far, there hasn't been any accidents in the house. Buddy's appetite is normal. No matter how upset his stomach is or how bad his allergies are, he always eats!
There has been no more vomiting, diarrhea or loose stools since starting Trilo. His stomach is very's upset most of the time now And allergies remain a problem, specifically wheezing , sneezing and runny nose. I don't have copies of all of his recent tests. I will ask for them when I return to the vet in a few days. Attached is what I have:
March 4, 2013. Pet emergency and specialty center
Medical record for Buddy 1:00 PM
Clinical history-
Betty presented for multiple episodes of vomiting and ataxia. Ate well Saturday p.m. Sunday a.m. Vomited, then vomited water when offered. Vomited a total of 8 to 10 times during Sunday. Owner gave Benadryl 12.5 mg, to try to help with nausea. No vomiting since 11 PM. Drink small amounts this a.m. and have kept it down. Yesterday at time of vomiting became ataxic. owner feels it is improved today. Urinated today a.m. Normal stool yesterday. No c/s.
pmh Of allergic run to vax, Only gets rabies now. On blue Buffalo salmon.
At rdvm today: hct 49.5, neu 11.48 bands suspect, wbc 13.81, plt 305 bun 41, alkp >2000, ggt 10, chol 392, na 143, rest wnl
rads at rdvm: Good and detail, Large liver extending the last rib, enlarged spleen. Large bladder, Feces in colon. Soft tissue density dorsal to stomach on lateral view (r/o Stomach pushed by liver vs mass effect vs other). Thoracic view diffuse interstitial pattern.
Referred here for ultrasound
Physical examination
BP 120, Temperature 102.9, Pulse 150, Respiration 60, Weight 7.273 kg, 16.00 lb, 0.38 m2
1. GEN APPR:BAR, Appears hydrated
2. EENT:MM Pink and moist CRT< 2 sec PERL
3. CARDIOVASC: NSR, GRADE 1-2/6 murmur ausculted, ausculted, Good pulse quality, no pulse deficits.
4. RESPIRATORY: Panting, lung sounds clear
5. ABDOMEN: Tens on palpation, hepatomegaly Palpable, difficult to palpate deeply. Rectal formed stool.
6. MUSC.SKEL: Ambulatory times 4.BCS. 7/9. Walks with stiff gate, primarily appears to be due to right hind limb. No obvious instability. No reaction to back palpation.
7. NERVOUS: PLR intact. CP deficits both hind limbs. Hyper reflexive reflexes in hindlimbs. Intact anal and tall tone.
8. GENITAL/URIN: Normal
9. INTEGUMENT: Normal
10. LYMPH NODES: Normal
PROBLEMS IDENTIFIED
-Mild hypothermia r/o stress, Infection, inflammation, Neoplasia, other
-Vomiting multiple times r/o Metabolic, endocrine, pancreatitis, Neoplasia , Fb obstruction, toxin, other
-Ataxic gait/CP Deficit/hyper reflexes r/o 13 – 13 Myelopathy ( ivdd, neoplasia, fxr, luxation), toxin, discospondylitis, discospondylosis , other
-Distended abdomen r/o hepatomegaly,Cushings, asites, Neoplasia, other
-bun r/o pre renal, renal, post renal, other
-elevated alkp, ggt, hepatomegaly, r/o endocrine hepatopathy, vacuolar hepatopathy, inflammatory hepatopathy,neoplasia, other
-Increased soft tissue density dorsal to stomach r/o mass effect, secondary to hepatomegaly, ingesta, other
DIAGNOSTIC TREATMENT PLAN
Met with Mrs. J and examined buddy. Discussed PE and rad/bloodwork concerns. Discussed ataxia appears to be more a Peripheral neuropathy rather than central. (As good mentation, alert, cn intact). Recommend USG to evaluate azotemia. BP to evaluate again for possible hypertension. It was normal the first time at 120. AUS Ideal to evaluate liver and abnormal appearance of stomach on rads. Would recommend spinal rads or advanced imaging to better evaluate spine. At this time plan to Ward OBS while awaiting AUS and will use this to help make decision in case mass etc. is found. She understands will not be done until late this afternoon plan approved.
CLINICIANS PROGRESS NOTES
BP 120
Neg. glucose, small bilirubin, neg blood, ph 6, protein 100
4:30 PM
Back from AUS. Initially vocalizing and appears stressed in cage but quiets down. CP deficits remain but is able to emulate on hind limbs. Still no evidence of back pain. Offered z/d diet- Ate very eagerly.
Telecom with Mrs. J, updated on urine, BP and AUS, overall fairly good results as no obvious masses and hepatomegaly is suspected secondary to endocrinopathy. Would recommend follow-up with rdvm For testings for Cushings At a future date.ataxia and increased reflexes are still concerns – possibly could have thrown a clot, could relate to Cushing's this way but otherwise may be a separate problem. (13-13 myelopathy, neoplasia, other). Can do pain meds and activity restriction trial, next diagnostic step would be spinal rads but discuss limitations of rads. Discuss signs can progress, worsen, it occurs would recommend more advanced imaging, consider sx or neuro consult if this occur. Mrs. J. approves final rads, will monitor at home follow up with our RDVM. Discussed activity restriction.
Two views spinal rads: No obvious bony lesion. Subjective disk space narrowing T 10-11-12
Tgh Tramadol ( Elect to hold off on NSAIDs given high suspicion of Cushing/other hepatopathy )
CLINICIANS PROGRESS NOTES 2:37 PM
ABDOMINAL ULTRASOUND
-Liver-diffusely hyperechoic ( same eghogenicity as spleen) With mild Mottling and ill defined hypoechoic regions. Subjectively plump based on degree of overhang over midline gastric axis, recommend rads to delineate hepatic margins, prominent hepatic vasculature, no
discrete masses or nodules.
-Gallbladder- Gallbladder filled with significant amount of moderate eghogenic debris with possible early organization, bile duct WN L
-Stomach- Normal rugal folds, multiple Pinpoint hyperechoic foci in muscularis; small intestinal segments evaluated have normal architectural layer definition, multiple full pinpoint hyperechoic foci in muscular is, all segments(0.35cm).
-Pancreas-Homogeneous texture and smooth capsule in sections evaluated; R pancreas 0.56
-Spleen-Homogeneous echotexture, normal echogenicity, focal hypoechoic nodule within Parenchyma.
-Kidneys- right:4.25 cm- ragged corticomedullary Definition, hypoechoic cortical, cyst containing a pinpoint hyperechoic density that shadows (ie:mineral); left: 4.8 cm, attenuated corticomedullary definition; No pelvic dilation, mineralization of diverticuli bilat
-Adrenal glands-right 0.52 cm, left 0.69cm (Normal average cat 0.43 cm, normal canine <0.75 cm);
-Urinary bladder-Unremarkable
-Prostate – WN L
-Lymph nodes:meds enteric and sublumbar LN WNL
-No asites
FINDINGS
>hepatopathy And liver changes – r/o : endocrine hepatopathy , vacuolar hepatopathy, inflammatory hepatopathy, less likely Infiltrative dz
>hepatic vessels midly prominent – R/O: R sided Heart failure, fluid overload
> Multiple pinpoint hyperechoic foci in muscularis of stomach and intestines – consistent with Mildly dilated lymphatics r/o: Transient Gastrointestinitis or inflammatory bowel disease "these are most likely", Infiltrative DZ, other
> Mild soft tissue mineralization and kidneys
TENTATIVE DIAGNOSIS
Open for ataxia
Enlarged liver
DIET- Normal diet
RECOMMENDATIONS
Summary:
Buddy presented for ultrasound evaluation after his liver looked large on x-rays at your family veterinarian after multiple episodes about vomiting. Ultrasound evaluations of his liver was most consistent with changes secondary to An endocrine disease such as Cushing's as well as G.I. changes most likely secondary to Gastrointestinitis. He has eaten well in the hospital with no further vomiting.
He does have a wobbly gait in his hindlimbs and abnormal reflexes which are most consistent with the spinal issues such as a disc or blood clot among other causes. Spinal x-rays did not show any obvious bony lesions. We are sending him home with pain medication and recommend activity restriction as we discussed if these signs persist or worsen, advanced imaging and even surgery may be recommended.
Please keep buddy confined to a crate or small room. No running, jumping or playing. He should go outside on a leash for bathroom purposes only.
Please monitor buddy for any progressive difficulty using his hindlimbs, vomiting, in appetence, diarrhea, coughing or any other abnormalities. If these occur please recheck immediately with your family veterinarian or the PESC if after hours.
Everybody is doing well with no further vomiting and eating and walking please recheck with your veterinarian in two days. Recheck sooner if problems occur.
END OF MEDICAL RECORD
I don't have copies of the low dose eight hour Cushings test that determined Pituitary Dependent Cushings, as of yet.
Below are the test results I do have.
CATALYST DX (March 4, 2013)
Below are the items that fell beyond the normal range
BUN 41mg. 7-27 HIGH
ALKP greater than 2000 UL 23-212 HIGH
GGT 10 U/L 0-7 HIGH
CHOL 392 mg. 110-130 HIGH
NA 143 mmol/L 144-160 LOW
PROCYTE DX (MARCH 4, 2013)
items out of normal range
NEU 11.48 K 2.95-11.64 HIGH
BAND - Suspect Presence
MONO 1.13K 0.16-1.12 HIGH
This is all I have for now. The doctor called me this evening to check on Buddy. She said to continue the Trilo, giving Buddy time to adjust to it. Upset stomach's are common when initializing treatment. Watch for vomiting and diarrhea. Let her know if he stops eating. As for Buddy's allergy symptoms recurring, that means Cortisol levels are dropping, which is what we want. Treat the runny nose, sneezing, wheezing etc. with Benadryl 3 times per day. Once Buddy is breathing better, he may be able to rest. Benadryl causes drowiness, which is good also. We go in Wed. or Thurs. for a blood test to see if Buddy's Cortisol levels are coming down. That is 7-10 days after initializing treatment. Adjustments may need to be made at that time.
Thank you for reading this....Kathy and Buddy
Harley PoMMom
03-31-2013, 01:09 AM
Hi Kathy,
I only have a moment to post but I wanted to welcome you back and I will let the Administrators know that you need approval so please be patient with us...Thanks so much.
Love and hugs,
Lori
so perhaps Buddy had a transient gastric episode along with an acute clot or disk problem with his back legs which is why he suddenly seemed ill, subsequently they found Cushings while checking everything out? That would seem to fill in the puzzle. At least that was how I read it but I am by no means an expert so hopefully after the holiday, one of our administrators will come along and read through it all.
Dropping Buddy's cortsiol will make his allergies flare up, he was self medicating with the higher cortisol, keeping them in check. It is not unusual for them to feel under the weather while their cortisol drops if they have other issues the higher cortisol was helping them with.
Recommend USG to evaluate azotemia
I am hoping someone else can dechiper what they are saying about the kidneys and their thought on the protein in the urine. I am not clear on that.
Budsters Mom
04-01-2013, 03:33 PM
Hello again,
For those of you who are not independently wealthy, how do you pay for it all? I am terribly frustrated! Buddy is having an ACTH test on Wednesday To determine if the trilostane is reducing his cortisol levels. They do the first one 7 to 10 days after initializing treatment. This leaves me with a bill of approximately $2000 since the beginning of March. I work in a local public school district. This is my 21st year with the district. I love what I do, but I don't bring home anywhere near two grand in an entire month! I only work nine months out of the year! The $2000 does not include the cost of His meds. It only includes tests and vet bills. These tests have to be done regularly. I am feeling very stressed!
Update:
During the neurology consultation, I found out that buddy did not appear to have a disc problem in his back, causing his hind leg weakness. It could've been caused by a stroke. A $3000 MRI would determine if he had had a stroke. Even if he did have a stroke, there is nothing I can do about that anyway. The doctor said to go ahead and test for Cushing's, that Buddy was stable enough. She said that his hind leg weakness could be due to Cushings Deterioration. She also said that he didn't appear to be in any pain. So yes, Cushing's was tested and found And treatment with Trilo was started. Buddy's stomach has finally began to settle. His allergies,however are going haywire! I know baby steps. Several people including family members has suggested that I put buddy down. That is not something that I'm willing to do even though the bills are continuing to pile up. He has given me 10 years of unconditional love. Illness is not a time to abandon him and I won't do that! Thank you for giving me a safe place to vent.
By the way, When I called the vet to get a quote for Wednesday's test, I also asked for copies of all of Buddy's tests. I'll pick them up on Wednesday.
Hugs, Kathy and Buddy
Harley PoMMom
04-01-2013, 04:47 PM
The initial cost expense is during the diagnostic phase and when a dog becomes stabilized on treatment the cost does go down considerably.
Here is a post from one of Administrators, Glynda, where she details another cost saving method:
Hi Kelly
The reason why the acth stim test is so expensive is because the stimulating agent, cortrosyn, is ridiculously expensive. There is good news for those with smaller dogs because studies show that while instructions on the .25 mg (250 mcg) vial is to inject the entire vial, only 5 mcg per kg of weight is necessary for an accurate result. While Java isn't small, her weight is still low enough to get two stim tests out of one vial. If you do the math, she'd need a bit over 113 mcg so your vet could just split the vial exactly in half.
I have provided the url to instructions on how to split, reconsititute and store for future use. This info is brought to us by a highly published and well respected endocrine specialist, Dr. Mark Peterson. Either give the url to your vet or print out the article for him and ask for a revised quote.
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-extend-your-supply-of-cortrosyn.html
Glynda
Having the Trilostane compounded is a money saver too.
molly muffin
04-01-2013, 09:14 PM
Hello and welcome from me too.
It is Very over whelming when the testing first begins that is for sure. Check out the ACTH frezing option that Lori posted above. Call the vet and ask if they will do this for you and give you a new quote. It helps. It is a doozy though to get through in the beginning. The hind leg weakness is definitely one of the possible signs of cushings, it causes muscle wastage in the hind legs usually. This sometimes will improve once treatment is under way. The pot belly also will hopefully go down some too and the drinking/peeing should get better as cortisol lowers to a better level.
Now on the other hand, allergies and arthritic sysmptoms may show up more since the cortisol is no longer covering it up. So that is something to keep in mind and be prepared for. Just see how he does. Hopefully no more vomiting episodes.
Hang in there. We know this isn't easy. Feel free to vent whenever you want. We've all done it more than once. :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-02-2013, 03:08 AM
Buddy is scheduled to have ACTH stimulation testing on Wednesday. I have been reading lots of information from your site to learn as much as I can about Cushings. I found out a few things and am very distressed about it. Buddy was started on trilostane a week ago Tuesday. 7 to 10 days after initiation of treatment he is due for for a ACTH stimulation test. I have discovered a few real problems With Buddy's treatment. First of all As per RX ,Buddy has been taking his trilostane on an empty stomach one hour before breakfast. He has not been taking it with food as Dr. Mark E Peterson advises . That's the first problem! The second problem is, I was told that Buddy needs to be fasted before taking his AC TH stimulation test on Wednesday. I was to give him his pill and then bring him in for his testing 4-6 hours later. Dr. Peterson article says that fasting will cause The test to be invalidated and even can cause harm. What should I do now? I haven't been giving Buddy his pill with food. If I go ahead with the ACTH test on Wednesday it wouldn't be accurate Even if I gave him his pill with food before the test. Would you suggest that I wait another week before having the test done and start giving him his pill with food tomorrow? Should he be having his pill with his regular breakfast or Just be given his pill with a small amount of food, then fed breakfast later? The more Information I read, the more it conflicts with my vet's instructions. I'm confused. Please advise!
Thank you, Kathy and Buddy
doxiesrock912
04-02-2013, 07:29 AM
I would ask to share Dr. Peterson's suggestions via email. My vet was unaware that the dosages recommended by the company were too high. Trilostane must be given with food and the ACTH tested is to be completed 4 - 6 hours after the morning dose of Trilostane.
Also ask if they partial out the Cortisyn because doing so lowers the cost of testing. If you have an IMS (small animal internal medicine) vet in the area, a visit to one is a good idea. Having an ultrasound is very helpful in determining how miuch Cushing's has been present. Our dog Daisy, has had it for at least a year prior to outward signs.
Ladies, I'm sure that you'll correct me if I've gotten any of this wrong :)
Good morning and good luck :)
molly muffin
04-02-2013, 08:09 AM
You can go ahead an start giving the medicine with the food and just make sure you give it with the food 4 - 6 hours before the test. Even if you have not being do so until now, as long as you start to do it and continue the morning of the test, the result will be valid.
Print out what Dr. Peterson says about giving it with food and take that in to your vet. We have found that many vets do not actually Know the protocols for giving the medicine. That is okay as long as they are willing to learn.
The food allows the medicine to be absorbed into the body more efficiently. Without it, the medicine doesn't absorb correctly from what I understand.
How is Buddy doing?
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
labblab
04-02-2013, 08:19 AM
Hello to you and Buddy,
I agree with Valerie -- I encourage you to talk with your vet about your concern that you've been told to give Buddy his trilostane on an empty stomach. In addition to Dr. Peterson's article, you can also cite these "Treatment Tips" published by Dechra, the manufacturer of brandname Vetoryl:
http://www.dechra-us.com/files//dechraUSA/downloads/Client%20Literature/48685_VETORYL_10mg_PatientBro_COVER_FLDOUT_2_0_dis .pdf
When contacted directly, Dechra has told me and other members that the trilostane also needs to be given with a meal on the morning of the ACTH testing. If your vet has any questions about this, I know the technical representatives at Dechra will be happy to discuss this either by phone or by email.
I do not know why your vet is telling you to wait one hour after dosing before you feed Buddy his breakfast. Perhaps there is some reason of which we're unaware. But I would definitely want to discuss this before proceeding with an ACTH test. I agree with you, I'd want to dose Buddy properly (giving his trilostane along with his regular breakfast) for approx. a week before moving forward with the testing.
Marianne
molly muffin
04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
Oops I was thinking that the test was Next Wed. I agree that you'd want Buddy to have been taking the medicine with food for a bit prior to the ACTH test.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-02-2013, 11:05 AM
Good morning,
I forwarded the information I learned on your site on to the vet last night. Below is her response. I copied and pasted it from the email I received.
Many studies have shown that there is no difference in absorption whether trilostane is given with or without food. This is even stated in the main veterinary drug resource book. However, the gastrointestinal side effects are reduced if given on an empty stomach and this has been the standard since this drug came to America about 7 years ago. You are welcome to do it however you wish.
If you want to have the test done giving it with food I am happy to do that. However, most labs recommend fasting anytime cortisol is read as the results are actually more accurate with the method they use to test. So it's basically up to the lab. But with that said, our lab doesn't care either way. :-
Thank you for your feedback so quickly! I'm going to reply and let them know that I will be bringing him in next week for his ACTH test.
I also conversed with them already about fractioning the drug used in the ACTH test. They already do it.
Hugs, Kathy and Buddy
Squirt's Mom
04-02-2013, 11:14 AM
Hi Kathy,
Since your vet seems to be aware of studies that conflict with what we have been told by the manufacturer and the studies we are aware of, would you mind asking her to supply you with supporting information for the studies she mentions? It is always possible there is info out there we are not aware of and having a full arsenal of information is always nice! ;)
Hope things are going better for you and Buddy!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
labblab
04-02-2013, 01:12 PM
Kathy, I hate to "pile on" re: questioning your vet. But I am really puzzled by what she has told you. The clinical trials and studies in the custody of Dechra (the brandname drug manufacturer) are the basis for FDA approval of Vetoryl in this country, and it is the manufacturer's prescribing information that is likely to be contained in any official drug compendium. The link I gave you earlier was to a Dechra publication directed to pet owners. But here is a link to the official U.S. Product Insert for Vetoryl (this is the FDA approved prescribing information):
http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf
And here is a direct quote from the Product Insert:
CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY:
Trilostane absorption is enhanced by administration with food. In healthy dogs, maximal plasma levels of trilostane occur within 1.5 hours, returning to baseline levels within twelve hours, although large inter-dog variation occurs. There is no accumulation of trilostane or its metabolites over time.
The recommendation to administer Vetoryl (trilostane) with food is not a new one. I started treating my dog with trilostane in 2003, and at that time the drug had to be imported from the U.K. because it had not yet received FDA approval for sale in the U.S. But even at that time, the recommendation was to give trilostane along with breakfast. At that time, "Arnolds" was the manufacturer of Vetoryl (Arnolds has since been incorporated into Dechra). Here's a link to an archived version of Arnolds' 2002 prescribing recommendations (click on "Vetoryl FAQs" on the main index page):
http://web.archive.org/web/20030801204826/www.arnolds.co.uk/NewsPage/index.htm
And here's the relevant quote:
6. Should Vetoryl®be given with food?
Yes, Vetoryl® is best given with food.
In the absence of supporting documentation, I do feel concerned if your vet persists in advocating for giving trilostane on an empty stomach. I realize it may feel awkward to press her to provide research citations and you may not wish to do so. Like Leslie, I would surely be interested in that info. But whether you ask her or not, I do encourage you to really read through that Product Insert carefully yourself. That way you'll be familiar with all the manufacturer's recommendations if/when you discuss other aspects of Buddy's care with your vet.
Marianne
Budsters Mom
04-02-2013, 02:11 PM
Marianne,
I forwarded your entire message onto Buddy's vet giving her a chance to respond with documentation if she would like. I did tell her that was her choice. Having open communication with one's vet is vital to the well-being of our beloved four-legged family members. I don't want to upset that balance or close the door to communication. I'll forward on any response I get.
Kathy
doxiesrock912
04-02-2013, 02:35 PM
Kathy,
you are correct. I voiced my opinion of mutual cooperation with Dr. Morgan at Cornell and she was in full agreement.
I won't even take that crap from my own doctors regardless of how "good" they are.
She's an internal small animal specialist and her recommendations were to give Trilostane with food for proper absorption and to be sure that Daisy has it 4 - 6 hours before her ACTH testing.
It is possible that your vets information is out of date.
Dr. Peterson is well known for his research of endocrun disorders.
NoonelovesmelikeNorman
04-02-2013, 03:13 PM
Hello Kathy and welcome to you and the Budster! I saw your heading and it brought back such memories...this is a great site, keep on your Vet or try to find a new one, I did and am very happy with him and his humbleness in taking advice - he even wanted me to thank the group after a bit of letting go of some ego....
I am no expert, there are many on here who are way more knowledgable and experienced so I will leave the advice giving for them. Please know that I will be praying for you and Budster (Buddy).
I was an EA as well years ago...now disabled, I will also pray you will have the funds to help buddy's quality of life.
Peace and Blessings Abound,
Sharon, Norman (cushings Doxie) and Millie (yorkie-pooh)
molly muffin
04-02-2013, 07:20 PM
Hi Kathy, I too would be very interested in any documentation or studies that your vet could supply us with that suggests that it is better to give food later than earlier, especially for gastrointestinal upset.
My main reason and you are welcome to supply this to your vet is that we are a forum, almost solely devoted to cushings (of course that goes along with so many other things it seems kidneys, diabetes, pancreatis, etc) and we have members from all over the world that come here looking for help, advice, etc. What we tell members is based upon, our own experiences, and also based upon documented studies, papers. So if there is something out there, that we are unaware of (and we do have administrators who read every published paper they can get their hands on for the sole purpose of staying up to date on new studies), then anything she could provide us with would of benefit to people and their cushings dogs all over the world. We never turn down or turn our noses up at new information, but we do need it to be up to date info and we welcome input from veterinarians for the purpose of helping our members.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
lulusmom
04-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Hi Kathy,
Many of us are voracious researchers and I for one would be very interested in more information from your vet on the many studies she's seen that show there is no difference in absorption whether trilostane is given with or without food. Everything I've read and based on my own experience with two cushdogs, says differently.
Information submitted to the FDA by Dechra, the manufacturer of Vetoryl (trilostane) for approval of the drug very specifically says that VETORYL Capsules should be administered with food. Route of administration repeatedly says; "Oral, given with food".
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm049823.htm
I do understand that some labs specifically ask that a dog be fasted for an acth stim test; however, I believe that only applies if the test is being done for purposes of diagnosing addison's or cushing's. Protocol is completely different for purposes of monitoring treatment with Vetoryl or Lysodren. Dr. Mark Peterson, a world renown endocrine expert, mentions this in his March 16, 2011 blog entitled "What's the Best protocol for ACTH Stimulation Testing in Dogs and Cats".
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/whats-best-protocol-for-acth.html
Remember that the ACTH stimulation test is the most useful test for monitoring dogs being treated with trilostane (Vetoryl) or mitotane (Lysodren) see my blog entitled, Diagnosing Cushing's disease: Should the ACTH stimulation test ever be used? Both medications are fat-soluble drugs and must be given at time of meals, or the drugs will not be well absorbed.
With trilostane, it’s extremely important to give the morning medication with food, and then start the ACTH stimulation test 3 to 4 hours later.
Fasting these dogs on the morning in which the ACTH stimulation test is scheduled should be avoided since it invalidates the test results.
When a dog ‘s food is withheld, the absorption of trilostane from the gastrointestinal tract is decreased. This leads to low circulating levels of trilostane, resulting in little to no inhibition of adrenocortical synthesis. Therefore, serum cortisol values will higher when the drug is given in a fasted state than when it is given with food.
Like Marianne, I was treating my dogs with Trilostane before Vetoryl was approved by the FDA in 2008 and the route of administration has never changed in the last seven years. To be quite honest, I hope your vet will consider calling Dechra to confirm what we've told you. We're just laypeople so I don't expect her to take our word for it which is why we've provided citations for her. Getting it from the horse's mouth is much perferred to telling pet owners to do what they want. Vetoryl (trilostane) is a serious drug and she needs to direct treatment according to proper protocol. I will also say that if the lab involved knows that the test is being used to monitor Trilostane treatment, they need to educate themselves too and understand that a dog must receive their dose WITH FOOD no more than 4 to 6 hours before the acth stimulation test; otherwise, you might as well flush your hard earned money down the toilet.
Glynda
molly muffin
04-02-2013, 09:52 PM
Oh gosh, I just realize a bunch of us posted on the same thing. I hope we haven't totally overwhelmed you!!
We are the forum of worry warts you know. :) It's like having a dozen mother hens running around after you. :) :) :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-02-2013, 11:07 PM
It's fine. I am a big girl. I can handle it. :) It all is a little overwhelming. Particularly since I hadn't even heard of Cushings until Buddy became ill and it was discovered.
My biggest stress is finances right now. How I'm going to be able to afford to pay for Buddy's needs. I know in my heart that it will all work out, but in the meantime it's stressful. Thank you for all of your help. I found your forum out of desperation. I was looking for someone to explain some of it (any of it) to me. I kept hearing the words Cushings and seeing $$$$. Tests, tests, and more tests! Buddy's regular Vet, Emergency hospital for an ultrasound and A neuro exam and consultation, at yet a third hospital. It was a hole that I kept falling into deeper and deeper without a clue as to what was happening. Vets kept telling me that they need to do this and that. I didn't know what any of it meant or what they were searching for. All the while the $$$$ became bigger and brighter with no end in sight. These professionals spit out fees as if they were gum balls in an endless sea of pennies. They don't see them as thousands of dollars.
Update: I gave Buddy his Trilo dose with Breakfast for the first time this morning. Up until then, hes been getting it one hour before breakfast. His stomach has been fine all day. The resurfacing of his allergies continues to be a challenge for Buddy, but Benadryl is helping somewhat. Sometimes Buddy will sneeze 20 times in a row, while his nose runs continuously. Now with the Benadryl, he's a least able to breathe easier and sleep most of the night. It is a blessing that I am on Spring Break right now. It gives me the opportunity to monitor him more closely as he adjusts to his meds.
I haven't heard back from the vet since this morning. I forwarded her your questions. It is up to her whether she chooses to respond. If she does, I'll forward that on.
Kathy and the Budster
doxiesrock912
04-02-2013, 11:28 PM
Kathy,
that's great news! Benadryl can make Buddy sleepy so it's good that he takes it at night. Sleep is so important in the healing process for humans and furbabies.
If your vet doesn't respond or makes your comments sound unfounded, honestly I would find another vet.
Cushing's is difficult to treat and so many other issues can go right along with the disease. Properly treated and our guys can live out their full life span or close to it comfortably and happy.
Budsters Mom
04-03-2013, 03:06 PM
Well, here goes....I received a response from Buddy's vet this morning. It is cut and pasted below. :D
Kathy, I don't know what to tell you on this. The forums on VIN, the database for UC Davis, cannot be cut/pasted and accessed without a passoword. All of the doctors here have been asked and we all agree is doesn't matter. This drug was given fasted for many many years with excellent treatment successs.
So that it! :eek:
Kathy and Buddy
WOW,
I have resisted chiming in. Me thinks she has a resentment building because she was sure not paying attention to the links.:rolleyes:
Solution: Why dont you call Dechra directly and simply ask them. They will give you a case number and she can then access Dechra through your case number.;);)
I did that and it really ticked off my IMS and embarrrassed her:):)
But, a girl has to do what a girl has to do to protect her pup.:):)
((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
doxiesrock912
04-03-2013, 03:38 PM
Great idea Addy, especially since my IMS at Cornell suggests twice a day! Cornell is a well known teaching vet hospital so I expect their knowledge to be current.
Good luck!
labblab
04-04-2013, 12:01 PM
Well, here goes....I received a response from Buddy's vet this morning. It is cut and pasted below. :D
Kathy, I don't know what to tell you on this. The forums on VIN, the database for UC Davis, cannot be cut/pasted and accessed without a passoword. All of the doctors here have been asked and we all agree is doesn't matter. This drug was given fasted for many many years with excellent treatment successs.
So that it! :eek:
Kathy and Buddy
Well. Your vet is not giving us much help here, is she. :o
Being the obsessive person I am, I have been busy Googling my iPad to death ever since we started this conversation. All I find are repeated instructions, through the years, to administer trilostane with food. This ranges from the citations we've already supplied to treatment directives published by IDEXX Laboratories to the most recent study results published by UC Davis in which the researchers specifically note that dogs were given trilostane along with food in advance of all ACTH tests. Out of all these searches, I did find one author around 2008-2009 who stated (without any supporting citation) that it had not been proven that food improved trilostane absorption -- but even that author still noted that the prescribing recommendation is to give the drug with food. Bottom line: I have found no reference anywhere by anybody, at any time, that recommends dosing trilostane on an empty stomach. Will some of the drug still be absorbed, regardless? Yes, I suppose so. So if this is the way your vet has been dosing all her dogs, presumably they would still be getting some benefit from the drug. But I would suspect they would likely be requiring a higher dose (and hence, at greater expense) than would otherwise be the case if the drug was being absorbed maximally.
For your own peace of mind, you can certainly contact Dechra. As to whether or not this will make a difference to your vet, I do not know since she seems to be totally disregarding Dechra's published directives. I don't know whether she'd respond differently to a verbal conversation. But at her request, maybe they could supply her with some actual research data. I know at least one such study exists, although I have not been able to access the full text yet ("It has been shown that feeding immediately after the administration of trilostane increases its absorption"). But Dechra may have custody of this or other studies that could be provided to your vet:
Johnston L, Chohan A, Chapman E. Absorption of Trilostane in the Fasted and Non- Fasted Healthy Dog. Proceedings 15th ECVIM Congress, 2005; p223 (abstract).
But at this point, we've pretty much beaten this particular issue into the ground. So the big question seems to be, where do you go from here? I guess your reaction to your vet's response will be tempered by your overall relationship with her. Is this a vet whom you've used for a long period of time and generally with positive results? Do you otherwise feel comfortable with the care your dog has received? Aside from this instance, does she generally address your questions in a satisfactory manner? Do you feel as though you have other options? Right now, she is not winning me over in terms of either her receptiveness to new information or her expertise in using trilostane. But you are the far better judge as to your overall comfort level with her care.
Marianne
Budsters Mom
04-04-2013, 12:08 PM
Good morning,
It appears obvious that my vets do not have the information regarding Cushings that you have.:rolleyes::eek:
As a recap...I rescheduled Buddy's ACTH test for next week. I hadn't been giving him his Trilo with food per doctor's orders. :mad: I was instructed to fast him before his ACTH test. :mad:I started giving him Trilo with breakfast a few days ago. I wanted to dose him according to protocol for at least a week before his ACTH test.
Buddy is taking Benadryl three times a day (every 8 hours)to control the onslaught of allergies. I don't like giving it to him that often particularly since it makes feel drugged and sleepy. If I don't, he literally cannot breathe well. He sneezes continuously with a runny nose and wheezes without relief. So, drugging him is the lesser of two evils for now.
Here's my question… Is it okay to give Buddy Benadryl on the morning of his ACTH test? If not, he is going to feel really miserable. I'm going to have to take that day off, which looks pretty bad after being off on break for two weeks. That is the only way that I know he will get his test completed in the required the 4-6 hour time window.
If I drop him off there on the way to work and pick him up after, I will have no idea when they actually started or completed the test. I've been giving Buddy his dose of Benadryl when he gets up in the morning. Then I've been giving him his trilostane a half an hour or so later with breakfast. Would it be okay if I did that the morning of the test?:confused:
Thanks for your help in advance,
Kathy and Buddy:):D
labblab
04-04-2013, 12:24 PM
I've never read or been told that antihistamines interfere with the ACTH, but this is another thing that you could double-check with Dechra if you'd like. Here's contact information for their U.S. office in Kansas:
http://www.dechra-us.com/Default.aspx?ID=365
THey have vets and vet techs on staff who are available to field questions via phone or email. They used to be very responsive to talking directly with pet owners, but seem to have become more selective as to what they prefer to discuss only with vets. But I would think that a question like this would be something that they'd be fine with answering for you.
For what it's worth in the future, you may want to experiment with switching Buddy to one of the newer, non-drowsy antihistamines. One of my non-Cushpups has terrible seasonal allergies, but she also has to take phenobarb for a seizure disorder. The combination of phenobarb and sedating antihistamines is not a good one, so my vet has switched her to Claritin. In honesty, neither Benadryl nor the Claritin have seemed to help her very much. But you can keep experimenting with different antihistamines to see if one provides a better response for Buddy. I'm sure you can Google a list of acceptable antihistamines/dosages for doggies, or maybe one of our other members can supply one.
Budsters Mom
04-04-2013, 12:58 PM
Hi Marianne,:)
I posted my last post before I read your email. Thank you for all of your hard work and for trying to search these things out for me as we'll as for others.
I have used that vet's office since Buddy was a puppy (10 years). I was referred there by others who are very happy with them. I have been very satisfied and comfortable with them handling Buddy's care up to this point. My regular vet was out on vacation when I ended up taking Buddy in so ill. That's how I ended up with this other doctor. I was very impressed with her, I must admit. She was the first one to suspect Cushing's. She referred us to an emergency hospital for an ultrasound, because she said we needed a specialist. She said that they could do it there, but Buddy had so many problems going on she thought he needed specialist. I appreciate her telling me that, instead of moving forth without proper testing. She referred us to a Specialty Hospital and to a specific doctor for his neural consultation.
She called ahead and talked with the neurologist, making sure they had everything they needed before my appointment. I believed everything she told me regarding Cushing's treatment until I found your forum. This form is like a very addicting drug. I couldn't get enough of it!;). The more I read, the more confused I got. :rolleyes:
I am not distressed by the fact that she didn't know. No one knows it all! What bothers me is the fact that I forwarded numerous citations from this forum and her opinion has remained the same. It also disturbs me that she said that everyone in your office felt exactly the same way about Dosing Trilo with or without food. That it makes no difference either way. If that is really true, then going back to my regular vet wouldn't help, would it? I have been really happy with my regular vet. He treats his pet parents as if he has all the time in the world to answer all of their questions. He even brought out a bin of bones once to show me how Buddy's knee worked when I didn't understand what he was telling me. I really like him, but I am afraid that office doesn't know enough about Cushings. So yes, I could find another vet. I live in a populated area where there are many. Hence my dilemma!
Budsters Mom
04-04-2013, 01:52 PM
Marianne,
THANK YOU!!!!! I followed your device and called Dechra. They were very helpful. Not only were my all of my questions answered, they were also explained. They told me that Vetroyl was fairly new in the United States and a lot of vets are not familiar with it's protocol.
1. Trilostane must be administered with food for proper absorption.
2. ATCH testing - No fast- Meal with medication - a smaller meal is warranted if the animal tends to get carsick. Test must be
started within a 4-6 hours, but doesn't have to be completed by
then.
Vets often want to do several tests at once therefore requiring a
Fast. In that case it is advisable to do the ACTH test at a different time.
3. Benadryl - Benadryl shouldn't in any way affect the ACTH test results.
So there is your verification once more! I wish my vet would call!
There are other Cush parents who are going to be getting the same instructions that I was given and won't know enough to look further.:(
Kathy and Buddy:)
labblab
04-04-2013, 02:31 PM
Oh Kathy, I'm so glad you called Dechra and that they were able to answer all your questions. And thank you so much for passing their information on to us. :)
I am really sorry that this conflict has come up regarding your vet's instructions. From what you've described, it does sound as though she acted very kindly and responsibly during Buddy's crisis. And the last thing we want to do here is to undermine a member's relationship with his/her vet. But I agree with you whole-heartedly that the more disturbing thing to me is not that your vet may have been originally misinformed (of course that happens), but instead that she doesn't seem to be responsive to the information that you've supplied to her now. It can be hard to have a conversation about this via email, though. Will you have the opportunity to talk face-to-face when you take Buddy in for his test? Especially now that you have had the chance to personally talk to Dechra, I'm thinking that could be the basis for your conversation with your vet. And I'm hoping that you'll get a different response from her when you have the chance to relay exactly what you've been told by Dechra, and I'm surely hoping that she will be motivated to seek further clarification herself if she remains unconvinced.
Marianne
Kathy, did they give you a case number? If so, you can give the case number to your vet and tell her what Dechra told you and that she can call, refering to the case number to verify the information you received directly from the drug's manufacturer.;)
Budsters Mom
04-04-2013, 04:32 PM
No they just talked to me and answered all my questions. They were very helpful and didn't seem to mind that I wasn't a vet. I didn't think to ask for a case number.
I'll call ahead and get my vet's schedule for next week so that I can hopefully talk to her when I take Buddy in for his ACTH Test. We'll see how it goes. That would give her a few days to research anything that she might like to, or calm down enough to hopefully listen to what I have to say. I don't want to come across as a threat or make her feel intimidated. I just want her to be open-minded enough so we can continue to learn together. We'll see,
Kathy and the Budster ;)
I know, it is balancing act. Sometimes face to face is better than email. The written word sometimes is misunderstood; there are no facial expressions or voice tones to use as cues.
I am so glad you called Dechra.
molly muffin
04-04-2013, 10:51 PM
I'm really glad that you called Dechra and they answered your questions. Now if your vet will take their responses into consideration, maybe it will all work out. It's really hard when you have been with the same vet for a long time and have had a good experience usually with them.
Hang in there, you are doing great!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-05-2013, 12:57 AM
An enormous THANK YOU and puppy love from Buddy to all of you. If I hadn't found your forum Buddy would still be taking Trilostane on an empty stomach and would had his ACTH Test yesterday fasted. I would have been throwing $$$$ that I can't afford down a black hole and Buddy would have had to go through the stress of an invalid test. Even worse than that, his dosage may have been changed based on the findings of the corrupted test. It could have been DISASTEROUS!
Instead I found support in an unlikely group of angels known as K9Cushings. I don't know how to begin to
thank you for being here when no one else was. A group full of love and hope. A group who believe that Buddy can have a better quality of life and are willing to guide me in my quest. Yes, the situation with my vet is unfortunate and it's tough dealing with someone who is willing to do what I want, but doesn't think I'm doing the right thing. There s so much I don't know and so much to learn. This is just the beginning for us and it's scary. It is comforting to know that you are just a click away. :)
Kathy and Buddy :D
doxiesrock912
04-05-2013, 01:21 AM
Kathy,
the information and support that I've gotten here has been invaluable!
Had I not found this forum, Daisy's treatment would be heading down the wrong road really quickly!
The most important thing is to do your research and not assume that the vet knows it all! We're on our third vet since I joined this forum and luckily, we've found a great one.
You and Buddy have to keep them on their toes!
Budsters Mom
04-05-2013, 04:11 PM
I sent the email below to my to my vet's office a few minutes ago. I am determined to get the word out even if they are not happy about it. I can always find another vet if it comes down to that, but I need to protect other Cushings puppies and families. That is the most important thing! ;)
FORWARDED MESSAGE
Please circulate this information to all of your doctors who work with dogs....
I called Dechra (the manufacturer of Vetoryl/Trilostane) yesterday to clear up my misconceptions regarding Trilostane's protocol.
Here's contact information for their U.S. office in Kansas:
http://www.dechra-us.com/Default.aspx?ID=365
919-327-0015
Please call or visit their website to verify the information that I'm about to relate to you.
Dechra - Vetoryl Called 4-4-13
1. Trilostane must be administered with food for proper absorption.
2. ATCH testing - No fast- Meal with medication - a smaller meal is warranted if the animal tends to get carsick. Test must be done 4-6 hours after taking meds with Breakfast. The same protocol needs to followed for future tests, so that comparisons can be made.
Vets often want to do several tests at once therefore requiring a fast. In that case, it is advisable to do the ACTH test at a different time.
Dechra was very helpful. They will be happy to talk with you about the Science behind this protocol.
I realize that you have been following a different protocol concerning ACTH testing and administration of Trilostane since it was approved in the US in 2008. Please be open to learning more so that you can help all of your Cushings dogs and families. Please don't hesitate to call me with any questions or for clarification.
Thank you,
END OF FORWARDED MESSAGE
We'll see what happens!:eek:
Kathy and Buddy
lulusmom
04-05-2013, 05:25 PM
Hi Kathy,
I think your email to your vet is perfect and I commend you for your tenacity in trying to educate her. I sincerely hope that your efforts will help her safely and effectively treat her current and new patients that may cross her threshold. I honestly think she was probably embarrassed that you know more than her about the serious drug she prescribed for Buddy; hence, she fabricated a story to mitigate that embarrassement and she probably never thought you would continue to challenge her. I, for one, don't mind saying that she should be ashamed of herself.
If your vet attended class the day they covered the endocrine system in school, she would have read a chapter or two authored by Dr. Edward Feldman, a Professor at UC Davis and world renown veterinary endocrine expert. I don't think I would be wrong in saying that he has probably set the protocol for the diagnosis and treatment of many endocrine disorders treated and studied at UC Davis. I also believe that UC Davis is second only to Dechra, the manufacturer, in conducting clinical trials on Trilostane. I know for a fact that Dr. Feldman lectures to his students and worldwide audience during his conferences that Trilostane must be given with food. There is no way that UC Davis' databases reflect otherwise. The only notable difference between Dechra and UC Davis protocol is that UC Davis calls for doing the acth stim test as early as 3 hours after dosing. This is because Trilostane's effectiveness peaks at about 1 1/2 hours after dosing.
I've also listened to a lecture given by Dr. David Bruyette who contributes to Dechra's continuing education for veterinarians. If yur vet chooses to treat cushing's patients, she would do well to avail herself of that resource. Vetoryl (trilostane) is Dr. Bruyette's first choice of treatment, despite the fact that he is one of the developers of Anipryl, the first drug to be FDA approved for treatment of cushing's. Unfortunately, it is rarely effective for cushing's so it is primarily prescribed today for canine cognitive dysfunction. Dr. Bruyette also lectures that the drug must be given with a meal. We've already cited Dr. Peterson and I could continue to give you names of other renown endocrine specialists, including a few who did their own peer reviewed clinical trials that should be easily accessed on VIN by your vet.
I'll be on pins and needles waiting for your vet's response. In my opinion, she's dug herself into a hole that's not going to be easy to get out of without conceding to your knowledge. A good number of us members have discovered that some vets have a very hard time humbling themselves. We shall see, huh?
Good job, Kathy!
Glynda
doxiesrock912
04-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Kathy,
it's sad that you had to go to these lengths, but you have it right from the manufacturer and your vet can't argue with that.
You go girl!
Budsters Mom
04-05-2013, 07:28 PM
:)Hi,
I don't want any of you to get the wrong idea. I am not trying to be "right". I could care less about that. Up until a month ago, I never even heard of Cushings. If I was still blissfully in the dark, that would mean that Buddy was okay. I would rather not have been put in a position where I needed to know. I do not want to be seen as a some kind of renegade, doing this for the thrill of it, or for attention. I am an average pet parent. I am learning as much as I can about Cushings so that I can better care of my little Cushing's Budster. Now that I have absorbed so much from this site, I can't sit idly knowing that other Cush parents are being given the same instructions I was given without trying to remedy that. Cush pups are stressed enough. We don't need to add to it! So please, I'm not doing anything particularly noble or special. I'm just doing what I think is right.:)
Kathy and Buddy:)
doxiesrock912
04-05-2013, 07:33 PM
Kathy,
many of us have had unpleasant experiences with not so knowledgeable vets and even those who think that they know everything.
We're simply happy that you're taking the initiative to educate yours.
Others may just go to a different vet which does nothing to help future Cushpups.
Budsters Mom
04-05-2013, 07:54 PM
Thanks for understanding!!:)
Kathy
molly muffin
04-05-2013, 08:15 PM
It is so common to have a vet that doesn't know all the protocols around the medicine for cushings, the necessary tests for cushings specifically and the importance of not going right to a cushings diagnosis and ruling out other possibilities. It's way to frequent on this forum.
My own vet is the same and went directly to 30mg of vetoryl based. I had to insist on a consult to an IMS and and Ultrasound and then pay to get that referral. At that point, I got the IMS to write on the report to my vet that 30mg is too high to start a dog under 20lbs on. (she did actual agree it was too high based on the 1mg/1lb recommendation now)
If you get a vet who doesn't know all this stuff, that can be okay, the main point thoughh as got to be that they are willing to adjust and learn with you. If they do that, then you Can have a perfectly fine relationship going forward. They just have to be willing to go that extra mile and find out.
Hopfully the more they learn, the better they will be with all their cushings pups.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-06-2013, 06:43 PM
:) Hello to all!
Update :
Buddy is doing very well today! His allergies are under control for this moment! No wheezing, runny nose, or sneezing so far today! He is still on Benadryl three times daily. That pretty much drugs him for the majority of the day. I am going to look into another non-drowsy antihistamine as soon as Buddy stabilizes on his Trilo. I don't want to make any changes at this moment. I will be taking him for his first ACTH test one day this week. I'm not sure which day yet. I go back to work on Monday after a two-week break. It looks really bad taking off right away and it's hard for a sub to run my groups. My kids don't take changes well. Buddy's Cushing's symptoms have subsided. He is drinking much less water and hasn't been peeing as if the dam had burst. He is walking better, even running for short bursts to the cookie jar. His cookies are his regular dry kibble, but he doesn't seem to care. If it's hand fed, IT'S COOKIES!!!!!! I have to be very careful what I feed him due to so many allergies. He is still very stiff and wobbly when he first stands up after being down a while. Within a few minutes, he is allover the place!
I am sitting out in the backyard watching Buddy. He caught a lizard, then it got away. He is currently frantically zapping and pawing at the hole under the fence where the lizard disappeared. Seeing him play is a wonderful treat for me. It has been too long!!!:o
otiswoman
04-06-2013, 07:31 PM
My dog Cushings dog had trouble with her liver, we gave her denamarin and it brought her liver back to normal. That supplement is expensive but it does contain Milk Thisle which is quite affordable. good Luck!
molly muffin
04-06-2013, 07:46 PM
What a great happy update Kathy! I'm glad that Buddy is doing so well. That is very good news indeed.
My niece and sister have both been off for Easter/Spring break too. We actually have a couple teachers on the forum (active) with dogs with cushings. I'm sure they can all relate to what you are saying.
The good thing is that summer is coming!!! Unless you teach summer school too, you'll have a nice break.
Just get Buddy on whatever dose works best for him and I'm hoping that this is actually the one. It sounds good. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-06-2013, 07:50 PM
Thank you, :)
Does anyone know if it's compatible taken with Trilostane and Benadryl?
Kathy and Buddy :confused:
Budsters Mom
04-06-2013, 08:51 PM
Yes Sharlene, I have the Summer off. My last day of work is June 19th. I could work Summer School and money is tight with so many vet bills, but I really want to be home with Buddy. That's a decision that will have to be made eventually, but not right now. I have a few weeks to decide. Summer School is only half-days for 4 weeks. We'll see.
I know that I will need to take a day off this coming week for Buddy's first ACTH Test. The only way that I can be sure it was done according to proper protocol is to be there. If I were to drop him off before work and pick him up afterwards, I would have no idea whether the test was done within the proper time window. I also need to try to talk to Buddy's vet face-to-face regarding all that has occurred.
Thanks for reminding me that it's almost Summer!
Kathy and Buddy:):D
molly muffin
04-06-2013, 08:55 PM
Ugh, you're right, you do need to be there and a face to face would probably be a lot more beneficial to understanding each other than emails. Sometimes emails just lose the emotion of the spoken word and some words can end up misinterpreted. Ugh.
I would definitely want to be home too in the summer.
I don't know of any problems with denarmarin and trilostane & benadryl but maybe one of the others that have used the combo would know for sure. I looked online and couldn't find any interactions.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Trixie
04-06-2013, 09:45 PM
Hi Kathy,
You were kind enough to reply to my newbie and I just read your thread...I'm out of breath reading what you have gone through with the emergency plus all the rest. No wonder you were up at 3:55am! I am also worried about all the expenses.
Best of all though, your post saying how much better Budster is feeling now, accept for the allergy issues which I hope continue to improve.
Have most of the Cushing's symptoms dissapated? How's his tummy been? Hope your little guy continues to improve! Guess he is feeling well enough for lizard hunting which is great news!
Barbara
Budsters Mom
04-06-2013, 11:50 PM
Hello Barbara,:)
When Buddy was Lizard hunting in the backyard it was a beautiful 78 degrees with a cool breeze. Today was Buddy's best day since he first became ill. Lately it has been difficult for me to even get him to go outside. Once he potties himself, he goes right back in and gets back into his bed. Today was different. He had a day free of wheezing, runny noses and sneezing. He has been active and involved with his regular pursuits. Those are guard duty in the doorway, lizard hunting, bird chasing, cookie begging and yapping the motorcycle across street. Most of Buddy's Cushing's symptoms have subsided. He is adjusting well to the Trilostane. His stomach has settled with no further problems.
He is still pretty weak in his hind legs. He has been getting around well in spite of it, but does move slower. Once he has been laying down for a while, he is slow getting back up and his legs are wobbly for a few minutes or so. He did feel well enough to play today and hasn't for a long time. It's been a great day! Thanks for asking,
Kathy and Buddy:D
Simba's Mom
04-07-2013, 12:55 AM
Yay Buddy, glad he is doing so well, we all need to hear good things going on that's for sure!!! Take care :)
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 11:05 AM
Hi ho, it's off to work I go!:o
Have any of you given your Cush dogs with allergies milk thistle? Buddies liver numbers are off the charts and I would like to try it.
Kathy and Buddy:)
Trixie
04-08-2013, 05:26 PM
Hi ho, it's off to work I go!:o
Have any of you given your Cush dogs with allergies milk thistle? Buddies liver numbers are off the charts and I would like to try it.
Kathy and Buddy:)
Hi Kathy,
Trixie is on Denamarin for her liver...it's the prescription milk thistle along with Sam-e. Trixie's levels are also very high. No side effects at all from this pill. After her check up that showed high liver levels she was given a Rx. At that time she was totally fine and did not exhibit such obvious Cushings symptoms so the vet said we would try the denamarin with an antibiotic before resorting to expensive tests. After 10 days on it her levels came way down..only the Alk-p remained higher, but I was hopeful at the end of the 30 days we would be back to normal. Testing a week after we finished the meds levels were back up and some Cushing's symptoms more evident. So as soon as the vet saw that he gave another 30 days of Denamarin while we worked out what to do next. Seems like a good medication.
Trixie's alk-p is 1295 and normal is 5-131 on my test. yikes. The other 2 are high too. Anyway she's at the vet now for her low dose test...and in about 2 hours I can go pick her up! It's been a long day and my nerves are shot. I can't wait for my husband and I to go spring her from the coop! Only wish I would have some answers today but guess we'll have to wait for the lab work. Then we'll know what's going on. sigh.
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 05:53 PM
Hi Barbara,
Waiting is always the worst! You'll be happy when the test is over and get you baby back.
Buddy's ALKP is greater than 2000UL. The normal range is 23-212. It is so high that it couldn't be measured on the test! I am concerned about the possibility of Denamaren causing problems with his allergies. I'm taking Buddy in for his first ACTH test either tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll ask the doctor about it then.
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-08-2013, 07:28 PM
Molly doesn't have allergies, so we didn't have to take that into consideration, but she is on the Canadian Heppato Support, which is the same as Denamarin in the U.S. Or at least it is very close to the same thing.
The vet should have an idea if it would affect the allergies, so good idea to ask him about that.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 07:58 PM
Sharlene,
Quote:
The vet should have an idea if it would affect the allergies, so good idea to ask him about that.
This is the same vet that told me to fast Buddy for his ACTH TEST and to dose Trilostane on an empty stomach! :eek: I'll ask, but I don't know how much good is going to do. :rolleyes: I am better off asking this panel!:D
Thanks for you help,
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-08-2013, 08:25 PM
Oh good gosh. You're right, wrong choice there. Still I'd ask, to at least see what he says. Hopefully one of the others on here will know more. So don't start till we get some feedback.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 10:06 PM
I tried to upload a photo of Buddy for my avatar. It didn't work. I will try again.
Kathy
molly muffin
04-08-2013, 10:10 PM
I think it did, I see a picture of a cute little dog in a red sweater. :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 10:14 PM
Why can't I see it? Kathy :confused:
molly muffin
04-08-2013, 10:35 PM
Go to your profile, Edit Options on the left hand side.
Open that and you'll see an option near the bottom of the page under "Visible Post Elements" make sure that show avatars is selected, otherwise you won't see avatars.
That could be it.
Sharlene
Budsters Mom
04-08-2013, 11:09 PM
Yes!:D
I can see the avatars now! So much cuter when I can view all the precious furbabies! :p
Thanks Sharlene
Squirt's Mom
04-09-2013, 08:54 AM
Hi Kathy,
What a handsome little guy Buddy is!
Denamarin is a combination of SAMe and silybin/silymarin. Silymarin is found in Milk Thistle. It does contain soy in the silybin -
Silybin has low bioavailability. Denamarin, therefore, has been specially formulated to address this issue. It contains silybin in a complex with soybean phosphatidylcholine...
http://www.drugs.com/vet/denamarin.html
Unless Buddy has a known allergy to soy, this would be a good drug for the liver. If soy is an issue, you can try plain Milk Thistle and / or SAMe as two products - both are good for the liver.
You're doing a great job, Mom! Keep up the good work!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
goldengirl88
04-09-2013, 09:00 AM
Kathy;
Just wanted to tell you how absolutely adorable Budster is in his picture. He reminds me of my last dog a wheaton terrier. Hope all is well, and God Bless you and Budster.
Patti
Budsters Mom
04-09-2013, 06:02 PM
FRUSTRATED:eek::(
I took off work to get Buddy's first ACTH test done since starting Trilo.
I called ahead to make sure that the vet that I needed to talk to was going to be there. By the time I got there, she had left on an emergency. The doctor that I did get treats his Cush pups with Lysodren and knew nothing about Trilostane. I went ahead and had the ACTH Test done, but I stayed and supervised every step of it. :D
It's too hard for me to take off another day. His pre-draw was done 4 hours and 20 minutes after his Trilo with a light breakfast. I have divided his food into three smaller meals today. He was then given the drug and brought out to sit with me. A timer was set for one hour. Then he was taken back for the second draw. Results are expected tomorrow. The doctor came out and said that there was fat in his blood so he didn't know how accurate the test would be, but what matters most is the consistency of the follow-up tests. OF COURSE THERE WAS FAT IN HIS BLOOD. HE HAD EATEN BREAKFAST!!!! FAT SOLUBLE, YA THINK!! I am so frustrated!!!!!!
I might have to end up taking Buddy to an IMS. I am having a really hard time paying for the bills as it is, but that might be my only recourse. I got copies of all of Buddy's test today. I did not have the test numbers for his low-dose eight hour test before. I have them now and will post them later when I'm less frustrated!;) I can't promise when that will be :eek::mad: Thanks for listening.
We just got home and buddy is barking at something out the front door, so he seems to be feeling okay.:)
Kathy and Buddy:)
doxiesrock912
04-09-2013, 06:32 PM
Kathy, honestly - I wish that I had started with the IMS in the first place. Wasted too much money on two previous vets, one HIGHLY recommended, before going to an IMS where our experience was the complete opposite.
It's worth the money, it really is instead of the trial and error that the GPs will put you through.
molly muffin
04-09-2013, 06:42 PM
Deep breaths Kathy. Hang in there. Of course they aren't use to seeing anything in the blood, their patients have not been giving the vetoryl with food. (head bang) The main thing is to see what the numbers actually come back as, with the most important one being the post draw number.
Just see what the number is and go from there. :) It'll be okay. Post the test results when you are ready. Anything abnormal in the blood work too, high low with normal range. This was the testing from before treatment started correct?
You did good!!! Hang in there!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
lulusmom
04-09-2013, 06:45 PM
Hi Kathy,
You did good today and the test was done according to proper protocol, thanks to you. High lipids (fat) in the blood doesn't have any effect on the acth stimulation test so the results should be accurate. You would not be the first member to be forced to educate their vet. The problem with that is what happens if there is something we can't figure out? Sometimes paying for a specialist is value added as opposed to paying lots to our gp vets and getting little to nothing in return. I would have been ahead by at least the cost of one oxalate bladder stone surgery if I had gone to a specialist from the get to.
Glynda
apollo6
04-10-2013, 12:55 PM
Dear Busters Mom or Dad
Welcome
I am Angel Apollo's mom. I live in San Diego. Not sure were you live.
If you live close to me, I could give you some referrals. My concern is that Buster should not be having all these stomach upsets and being put on Trilostane so fast. Maybe the dosage is to high for him, and was an ultrasound done to check his organs. Also it does not cost as much as you said for testing for Cushings. You can send me a message if you like and I can give you my email and phone number if you like.
Sonja and Angel Apollo
P.s Apollo was almost 14 when he died. Each patient is different.
Hugs.
Budsters Mom
04-10-2013, 06:35 PM
Hello Sonya,
I tried to send you a private message but I'm not sure if it went through. I would like to talk with you or email with you directly. I probably don't live more than 30 miles from you. I'm not sure how to enable private messaging. It says that I can only get messages from contacts, so I'll have to work on that. Please let me know if you got my message. It had both my email address and my home phone number. I have been very stressed by this whole thing And have become very discouraged. Any help would be appreciated.
THANK YOU!!!
Kathy
molly muffin
04-10-2013, 06:55 PM
Hi Kathy,
Remember that option you did earlier to allow you to see avatars? :D:D
We're going to visit there again. :)
So, left hand side, Edit Options
Scroll down to where you see Enable Private Messaging, make sure that is checked
and right underneath it says Receive Private Messages only from Contacts and Moderators make sure that one is NOT checked. :)
You can also get email notifications of when you receive a private message.
Cheers!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Trixie
04-11-2013, 12:26 AM
I'm so sorry you had such a frustrating experience at the vet Kathy. This is all scary and stressful enough!! :mad: Hopefully Buddy's test results will be good though. Happy to hear Buddy is barking though...that's a good sign of spunk! Will be waiting to hear the outcome of Buddy's test.
Barbara
Budsters Mom
04-11-2013, 01:17 PM
Still waiting for ACTH TEST RESULTS! They were supposed to be back yesterday! Ug!:confused::(
Kathy and Buddy
Simba's Mom
04-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Seriously why aren't these vets educated on cushings, I feel so bad for you and your pup, hang in there, sending hugs!!!
molly muffin
04-11-2013, 01:54 PM
We've seen others with ACTH test results take a couple days to come back too.
I think mine takes a couple days usually. The lucky ones get it back the next day.
Hang in there and deep breaths. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-11-2013, 02:26 PM
I'm have to make this quick because I am about ready to start my Math groups. The doctor called with the ACTH numbers. She said that Buddy was doing well and does not need a change in his Trilostane at this time. Retest in 30 days.
Here are the numbers: pre draw 8.4
post draw 15.2
I'll forward his Low dose eight hours test numbers later today. I don't have them with me right now. Let me know what you think? I don't know what any of the numbers mean.
Thanks, Kathy and Buddy:)
labblab
04-11-2013, 04:04 PM
Hi Kathy,
In the long-run, you will want Buddy's post-ACTH number to be at least as low as around 9 ug/dl with his overt clinical symptoms under good control. But experience has shown that cortisol tends to continue to drop during the first month or so of treatment, so that's why the general recommendation is to hold off on making a dosing increase until you've had enough time to accurately judge the maximal effect of the current dose. So I agree with your vet as far as sitting tight for the time being.
Here's a link to Dechra's monitoring chart that will give you a more complete framework for dosing decisions. I think it is easier to read if you physically print it out and fit the pages together. You'll see that they do allow for the possibility of a small dosage increase at this point in time if clinical symptoms remain severe with no improvement and a "post" reading that exceeds 9.1. But from our experience here, we really have seen significant further "drops" during the first month even when the dose is unchanged. So as long as there is even a bit of improvement in symptoms, I'd tend to leave things alone until the next testing.
http://www.dechra-us.com/files//dechraUSA/downloads/Client%20Literature/47902_VETORYL_10mg_Treatment_and_Monitoring_Brochu re_Update_3_2_ps.pdf
Marianne
Budsters Mom
04-11-2013, 04:47 PM
Thank you Marianne,
Buddy has made vast improvement. He is now running around catching lizards and barking at birds. His allergies are finally under control. His stomach has settled with no further problems and he's happy and carefree. Basically, the same little busy body he was before! His stomach is much less tender and doesn't appear to be rounded as much. He is drinking far less water and is no longer peeing a river. The only cushing symptom that remains is rear leg weakness.
He is running all over the place now, but is somewhat wobbly. He is a little stiff getting up after laying down awhile. I haven't seen him quite this active in a long time! Before the meds, it was difficult to get him out of his bed long enough to go potty. He would immediately come back in and go right to his bed where he would stay for hours. Now he is everywhere, right in the middle of everything. It is wonderful!!
Thank again for all of your help. My questions never end I am afraid:confused:
Kathy and buddy:)
Harley PoMMom
04-11-2013, 04:52 PM
I haven't seen him quite this active in a long time! Before the meds, it was difficult to get him out of his bed long enough to go potty. He would immediately come back in and go right to his bed where he would stay for hours. Now he is everywhere, right in the middle of everything. It is wonderful!!
Thank again for all of your help. My questions never end I am afraid:confused:
Kathy and buddy:)
It is wonderful that Buddy is feeling much more himself, I am so happy for you both!!
There will never come a time when one has asked too many questions. We are here to help in any way we can. ;) You are doing a great job!!
Love and hugs,
Lori
Budsters Mom
04-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Hi all,
Pre-diagnosis Low Dose Dexamethasone 8 hour test - I just got a copy of it. Please let me know if the numbers are consistent with a Pituitary-dependent Cushings Diagnosis. His ultrasound is posted in a very long message toward the beginning of my thread. I don't think there is much doubt about Buddy having Cushings, because he has responded so well to the medication. Here are the numbers:
Cortisol - Pre Dex. 13.4. 1.0-6.0. ug/dl
Cortisol - 4 hr Post Dex. 2.9 ug/dl
Cortisol - 8 hr Post Dex. 4.0. ug/dl
Many thanks!
Kathy and the Budster:)
Mel-Tia
04-11-2013, 06:38 PM
What a great update. So pleased your little fella is starting to feel and act like himself
Mel
Xxxxx
Thank you Marianne,
Buddy has made vast improvement. He is now running around catching lizards and barking at birds. His allergies are finally under control. His stomach has settled with no further problems and he's happy and carefree. Basically, the same little busy body he was before! His stomach is much less tender and doesn't appear to be rounded as much. He is drinking far less water and is no longer peeing a river. The only cushing symptom that remains is rear leg weakness.
He is running all over the place now, but is somewhat wobbly. He is a little stiff getting up after laying down awhile. I haven't seen him quite this active in a long time! Before the meds, it was difficult to get him out of his bed long enough to go potty. He would immediately come back in and go right to his bed where he would stay for hours. Now he is everywhere, right in the middle of everything. It is wonderful!!
Thank again for all of your help. My questions never end I am afraid:confused:
Kathy and buddy:)
molly muffin
04-11-2013, 06:39 PM
Awesome to hear that Buddie is feeling pretty good these days. :) yippeeee
Yes, your LDDS test is consistent with Pituitary dependent cushings.
Slow steady exercise can help to build the muscles back. Sounds like he's feeling good enough now that slow and steady might be hard to do, little rascal is going to want to go all out. hahaha :)
Yep, we don't mind questions around here at all. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
doxiesrock912
04-11-2013, 07:16 PM
NICE!!!!!!!!
Great news for Budster!
SachiMom
04-11-2013, 10:10 PM
Buddy has made vast improvement. .......The only cushing symptom that remains is rear leg weakness........I haven't seen him quite this active in a long time!........Now he is everywhere, right in the middle of everything. It is wonderful!
I haven't posted to you before and don't get on here as often as I would like, but I have followed your journey. The girls have given you the best information and I could not possibly add to it. I know the target number is around 9.0 (it used to be much lower), but please do not chase numbers just for the number's sake. If Buddy does best in the lower teen numbers, so be it. You have to be the judge of how well he is doing. So far the improvements have been just short of a miracle, and the leg weakness will probably be the hardest to improve, but time and exercise could take care of that. As Marianne said, the numbers could drop a bit still in the next month and that may also help the weakness. But with the improvements so far, I think you have the luxury of waiting for time to tell!
So congratulations on being the best advocate for Buddy.
Great Job!
Hugs~Mary Ann
Budsters Mom
04-11-2013, 11:36 PM
Hello Mary Ann,:)
Thank you so much for following my thread and for your wonderful words of encouragement. Yes, Buddy has been ill. When I took him to the emergency hospital, I really didn't think I was going to be able to bring him back home. He is doing miraculously well. It is due to the divine intervention of the wonderful canine Cushing's angels, and the tough little bugger Buddy is. I have received help and support from this group in a way that I never have before. It warms my heart in a way that I can't even clearly explain. It is people just like you that take your time to pop in and provide answers and words of encouragement. I appreciate it. :)
Kathy and Buddy
Trixie
04-12-2013, 12:01 AM
Such great news about Buddy!! So happy he is doing so well and getting back to his usual little self!! :D:D
Barbara
Budsters Mom
04-12-2013, 06:57 PM
NEWSFLASH HOT OFF THE WIRE!!!!!!!!:D:D
Buddy's hair is starting to grow back on his stomach. It has been bare since his ultrasound. Another Cushing's symptom bites the dust!!!!:D
Let us all have a moment of silence for this momentous occasion! Ha!
This is an example of what you have done for me. I went from scared, overwhelmed, frantic and frustrated, to being able to see a little humor in a real tough situation. It is due to all of you. Thank you for EVERYTHING!! Having said that, I can't guarantee that I won't return to those dark places. When I do and probably will, I know where the light shines the brightest!
Kathy and Buddy:)
Why, I think this is hot news indeed and calls for a group toast:)
Our drink of choice is usually Chocovino;););)
Keep up the good work;)
We love great news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Harley PoMMom
04-12-2013, 09:02 PM
WooHoo Buddy!!! You're doing a Great job, Kathy!!!
Trixie
04-12-2013, 09:11 PM
More good news about Buddy!! :p So nice to hear! This board has been a life-saver for many, myself included!! Here's to Buddy's good news and good health...I'm toasting with my iced tea! :D
Barbara
molly muffin
04-12-2013, 10:26 PM
Whoo hooooo Buddie! I'll toast to that with you!!
Excellent news.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
goldengirl88
04-13-2013, 09:32 AM
Go Buddie Go, great job keep improving, you are doing swell!!!
Blessings
Patti
Budsters Mom
04-13-2013, 06:53 PM
Hi all,:)
Once again I probably should know this, but regretfully I don't.
Where on the dog do they draw blood? As you know, Buddy just had his first ACTH test done a few days ago. Today when I was checking his paws for stickers, I noticed that he had some blood on the bottom of his right rear paw close to the pad. Could that be where they draw the blood from? He has been lizard hunting a lot since he's been feeling better. He could've stepped on something (hopefully not a bee!) or gotten some kind of scrape that way. Thanks,
Kathy and Buddy:)
Trixie
04-13-2013, 09:44 PM
Hi Kathy,
Don't know if all vets draw blood from the same place but when Trixie had a check up and they took blood it was on her leg above her paw...just before the knee joint if I remember correctly. Maybe the injury to the pad is a small cut from something outside? I hope it's not bothering Buddy. How's the little lizard hunter been doing??
Barbara
doxiesrock912
04-13-2013, 10:08 PM
Ladies,
it depends upon the blood test which I never knew until recently.
Once, the vet took Daisy in another room and I overheard him tell the tech to take the blood from her jugular.
Harley PoMMom
04-13-2013, 10:44 PM
Harley got his ACTH stim tests taken from his neck, I believe because that vein was always so easy to see and get to.
SoggyDoggy
04-13-2013, 10:47 PM
Hi Kathy,
Haven't posted to you before as I have been a bit absent of late :o but it sounds like you are really on the right track with Buddy! It's great to hear that things are going so well for you both at the moment, his energy is back up and the fur regrowth is fantastic!
I too am a teacher and fully understand the hassle of taking a day off work to visit the vet, but I've come to terms now with the fact that my my boys are more important to me and as long as I can get a decent sub, the kids will cope. :p It has to be done! (i took friday off last week for an ACTH in fact!)
So just wanted to stop by, say Hi, well done and keep on hassling that vet. I caught mine in a serious blunder that she refused to admit, finally took the issue to her boss instead (after transferring treatment to an IMS) and she was told in no uncertain terms that she stuffed up. The fact is, they do stuff up if they aren't willing to admit they don't know everything, so as I said, keep on at her. It's worth it in the long run.
So on that note, good luck and I'll look forward to hearing about more of the little milestones Buddy recovers in his journey :D
Budsters Mom
04-14-2013, 12:05 AM
Hi Naomi,:)
Thank you for the support, kind words, and teacher's perspective.
Yes, you are right!:D The kids were absolutely fine! I was just feeling guilty because it was only the second day after I returned from spring break. I had planned to get it done during break but, a series of errors caused the change.
Hugs to your boys. I hope that your little Cush pup doing well,
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-14-2013, 01:13 AM
Hi Kathy, the paw blood could be from stepping on something or maybe he got lucky and caught one of those lizards even. Give it a good wash down and then see if it starts to bother him at all. Make sure no pine needles broke off in there (that happened to molly once). If he licks at it you'll know it's bothering him, it he leaves it alone then its probably just fine.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-15-2013, 09:37 PM
Hi,:)
I've asked before, but I'm going to try again. Since Buddy's liver numbers are so incredibly high, and his liver is very large, I am interested in starting him on Denamarin or just Milk Thistle. I did ask his vet, but as usual it was of very little help. She said that Denamarin was to help with liver disease, not for Cushing's related treatment. I can get milk thistle without an RX. My concern is Buddy's allergies. Do any of you have Cush pups with allergies and are using either of these supplements? I finally got his allergies under control since his cortisol dropped. I am concerned about milk thistle causing a problem all over again, or him having an even worse reaction. Thank you,
Kathy and Buddy:)
Trixie
04-15-2013, 09:50 PM
Hi Kathy,
Trixie is on Denamarin. Did your vet say no to prescribing or just didn't really respond to your concern?
Trixie went on this after her first blood test showed high liver levels. It lowered her levels after just 5 days. She was off it for about 8-10 days and her levels went back up..this was prior to our Cushings diagnosis. Once we had a positive on that the vet put her back on the Denamarin and he said it was fine to take along with the Trilostane. The vet said it's very good for the liver.
I have seen info online about making a tea of the milk thistle or getting capsules but I would think it best to have the prescription stuff so you know the dosage level is right. Maybe ask again and perhaps the vet would know about allergic reactions to milk thistle or is that hoping for too much?
I just looked online and Nutramaxlabs.com has an "ask a vet forum" on their site--they make Denamarin so maybe you ask there about possible allergic reactions.
Hope Buddy is feeling good!
Barbara
Squirt's Mom
04-16-2013, 08:22 AM
Hi Kathy,
According to Holistic vets Susan G. Wynne and Barbara J. Fougere in Veterinary Herbal Medicine, those with allergies to the Daisy family of plants (Family Asteraceae) may have an allergic reaction to Milk Thistle. David Hoffman, FNIMH, AHG in Medical Herbalism, the Science and Practice of Herbal Medicine states no reported side effects or drug interactions. However, Milk Thistle can reduce the amount of insulin required for diabetics. Denamarin contains silybin which is part of the active component of silymarin in Milk Thistle that works on the liver.
Milk Thistle can do wonders for liver toxicity and improve function for those who can take it - Squirt cannot even tho she has never had allergies until recently. It has always made her vomit no matter which form or method I tried. She is in a very small group of pets who sadly cannot tolerate MT.
Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Budsters Mom
04-16-2013, 06:01 PM
Thank you Leslie and Barbara. :)
Allergies have always been a challenge for Buddy. He has Skin, food, some medications and environmental allergies. I am concerned about Denamarin and milk thistle because he is so highly allergic. That is my dilemma. Do I try it? It could greatly improve his liver function, but at what risk?
Kathy and Buddy:)
Budsters Mom
04-17-2013, 10:14 PM
Hi all, :)
I am normally very mellow, but I totally lost it today!:eek: I was being asked about how Buddy was and was trying to explain Cushings to a couple of people. I was asked about whether the tests, medicine and everything else were expensive and would it cure him. When I responded that there was no cure and yes it was expensive, I was asked why treat then. I said it was to give him a better quality of life for whatever time he had left, that you don't give up on family members. I was told he was just a dog and easily replaced. That's when I lost it! :eek: NOT ONE OF MY BETTER MOMENTS!:(
Kathy and Buddy:)
Bo's Mom
04-17-2013, 10:23 PM
And that is EXACTLY why Buddy is so lucky to have you as his Mommy!!! Give him some belly rubs from his friends who understand the love you share.
Simba's Mom
04-17-2013, 11:18 PM
Hey kathy, just a dog, I have sure heard that before, I want to say back well your'e just an idiot but I don't, they are just stupid and you can't fix stupid!!!! Hang in there!!!
NoonelovesmelikeNorman
04-17-2013, 11:45 PM
Hi Kathy, I understand how you feel...I ad a vet tell me to put Norman down because it is so hard on the dogs and the expense...A VET :mad::mad: Come on Man... this is my boy, No one loves me like him and put him down....
Buddy is so lucky to have you. Out pets are family. i always tell people so if a relative got diabetes would you tell them oh dont do treatment... Treatment can bring quality of life back to our pups... and Life all of life is about quality of life... So we do what we can for them and when we can't any longer it doesnt make it any easier to say good bye... We love them, almost as much as they have taught us to love and all the great lesson of why God made Dog. We are blessed and Buddy is blessed to have you. Hang in there, You're doing great!
Peace and Mercy....I say - father forgive them for they know not what they do or say... We know what is best for our pups... Bless you!
Hugs and smiles with a few licks from millie and norms too,
Sharon =)
molly muffin
04-18-2013, 12:18 AM
Pfffft just a dog. Well, they are just a person, not always one of creations brighter ones obviously. Hmppphhh
*passing the chocovino over to you.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
doxiesrock912
04-18-2013, 12:36 AM
Kathy,
whoever said that can bite my shiny, round butt!!!!!!
That is deplorable and I pray to God that they don't have pets!
I don't blame you for losing it. I surely would have.
They're ignorant, and if they actually researched Cushings they would learn how wrong they are.
Thanking my lucky stars that my fiance loves Daisy as much as he loves me (almost).
Budsters Mom
04-18-2013, 01:30 AM
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and words of encouragement.:o
I am surrounded by people that don't understand what I'm trying to do. Not only is all of my attention, resources and energy going to Buddy's care, I'm continuously having to justify it to someone or another. That's why I melted down today. I can't take it anymore.:(
If they can't show some kind of support, they need to shut up or stay out of my way, preferably both! I look at Buddy and he stares back at me with those big brown eyes. At that moment, I know that he is all that matters, but it's hard to do it alone.
Kathy and Buddy:)
Squirt's Mom
04-18-2013, 08:45 AM
You ain't alone, honey. Next time someone is dumb enough to say something like that to you, just remember you have a whole host of angry angels right behind you givin' 'em the stink eye! ;)
Kathy, just remember, you simply do not have to justify anything to anyone except to yourself and Buddy. End of story. I know it is hard when people say things and they sometimes dont realize how it hurts.
It is hard to stay calm when faced with insensitve people. They'll give up offering their insights once you just ignore them, hard as that is.
Harley PoMMom
04-18-2013, 12:16 PM
If they can't show some kind of support, they need to shut up or stay out of my way, preferably both! I look at Buddy and he stares back at me with those big brown eyes. At that moment, I know that he is all that matters, but it's hard to do it alone.
Kathy and Buddy:)
You go sister!! We are here for you and Buddy, you are never alone.
Sending tons of love and hugs, Lori
goldengirl88
04-18-2013, 12:45 PM
Kathy:
Don't even spend one second on people who don't support you, as there are enough of us on here to help and who really care. I just don't get people, they think there is something majorily wrong with you if you happen to love your dog. I love my Tipper more than some do their children, and I don't care who likes it. My one neighbor always calls and asks what is going on and when I start to tell her, she changes the subject. So, I feel if you really don't want to hear the truth, or care about it, why bother calling and invading my privacy if you really could care less?? I do not call others and go on about Tipper, but when you call me what do you expect??? Just ignore them, they aren't worth your time. God Bless You and Buddy
patti
Trixie
04-18-2013, 04:22 PM
I just don't understand people who make the judgement "it's only a dog"...it just doesn't compute with me! Perhaps they never had a pet!! If someone does feel that way they should keep it to themselves. It only makes them less of a person in my book. Compassion for all living things is what makes us human. I had to put a parakeet to sleep because a spinal tumor made it impossible for the bird to sit on a perch. It broke my heart...I felt terrible about it. Who is anyone to judge my feelings on this and say "it's only a bird"? People did though. Those who feel this way about animals are missing a part of life that I wouldn't ever give up..even if it's hard to be a pet owner sometimes. We always say we have 3 girls...two of them are away in school...one of them doesn't need college because she is naturally smart (and a little furry!)! :D
Barbara
Budsters Mom
04-18-2013, 07:18 PM
Thank you for all of your support, you lovely K9Cushing angels! :D
I'm not used to being bombarded with so much judgmental crap!:(:mad: It has been so heavy the last few weeks that I'd need a bulldozer to haul it all away! Now that's a picture! :D
Many people feel free to offer unsolicited advice about what I should and shouldn't do. Yes, I need to get thicker skin and not let those comments bother me. I'm not quite there yet!:(. Thanks for listening,
Kathy and Buddy:)
Budsters Mom
04-19-2013, 01:30 PM
Hi,:)
Buddy is continuing to have a lot of trouble with his allergies. I get him stabilized for a few days, then they erupt all over again. When this occurs, his noise runs constantly, he sneezes and he wheezes for every breath. The more he tries to breathe, the more he wheezes and panics. It is a vicious cycle. Benadryl helps sometimes, but is not consistent. Buddy was unable to sleep most of the night due to this problem. I realize that allergies are not a Cushings sympton, but are related in Buddy's case. When his cortisol levels dropped. His allergy monster returned!! :( Any ideas? There are sure to be other allergy. Cush fur babies out there.:confused:Thanks,
He is drinking more water also, but it may not be due to his Cushings. Benadryl dries him out making him more thirsty and the weather has been warmer. 82 degrees here today!:)
Kathy and Buddy:)
Boriss McCall
04-19-2013, 01:52 PM
I think we have all been in your shoes. A person that says "just a dog" is not a very caring person. I feel sorry for them because they must not know the deep love you get & give from a dog. They are missing out.
Squirt's Mom
04-19-2013, 02:10 PM
Squirt has apparently developed an allergy to dust mites. She would cough and have trouble breathing at nite then one nite scared me to pieces hacking. One of the members here mentioned dust mites. I have been washing all the bedding every week in hot water and vinegar, vacuuming the bedroom daily at least once, and spraying the blankets, pillows, sheets and floors between washings. She's had no more trouble and hasn't had to take the antihistamine the vet gave her. Just a thought.... ;)
Budsters Mom
04-19-2013, 03:07 PM
Yes, thank you,:)
I already do dust mite patrol daily! Buddy just has so many allergies!
I did check in to giving him Denamarin/Milk Thistle to help with his liver numbers. There was a warning on the bottle that stated not to be taken if allergic to Daisy flowers or ragweed. Buddy is affected by both!:( Oh well, another route.
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-19-2013, 11:57 PM
Hey Kathy,
Okay, I found a web site with some other natural herb options for liver health. Leslie too might have some suggestions as she has studied many herbs.
http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/dog-liver-health.html
Of course they would need to be screened for any allergic potentials.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-20-2013, 01:08 AM
Sharlene,
I checked out your link. It looks like a great place to start! Thank you! :). Buddy's allergies limit what I'm able to do for him as far as supplements, foods and medications. It is frustrating!:confused:
His allergies are doing better this evening. We may actually get a little more sleep tonight!:D. It has been windy and warm, with very high pollen counts lately. That's not a good combination for allergy sufferers. :(
Kathy and Buddy:)
Squirt's Mom
04-20-2013, 10:28 AM
Mornin',
On the page that opened with that link, there are two herbs a cush pup needs to avoid - the licorice and dandelion. Licorice is an adrenal stimulant - our babies adrenals are already over-stimulated. ;) Dandelion is a very good diuretic, which could lead to them peeing more which could lead us to think they had lost control of the cortisol and increase the dose when it wasn't needed. The others are excellent herbs for liver protection, detoxification and improved functioning.
However, with a pup who has allergies from unknown causes (which is usually the case), herbs need to be used with caution. If you try one, use it sparingly and use only that one until you see how Buddy reacts to it. If he does well on a low amount, you can increase to the recommended amount slowly. Then if he does well with that one, add another in the same low and slow manner, watching all the time for reactions, both positive and negative. Herbs work slowly compared to pharmaceuticals so they take time, patience and diligence on our part.
There are two things that came to mind concerning the itching - Chamomile and apple cider vinegar.
Make Chamomile tea just as if you were going to drink it - but don't sweeten it. ;) Let it cool. Give Buddy a bath with a good anti-itch shampoo like oat (as long as he doesn't have yeast) then pour the Chamomile tea all over him, rubbing it in to get to the skin. Leave it on and let him dry. I use this method with my own Tasha who had allergies and it did work for her very well.
ACV (apple cider vinegar) is controversial in many corners but I have seen it do wonders for several conditions - including allergies. Add a little bit of ACV to his drinking water. I kept ACV in the water bowls for Tash and all the others drank the same water. I noticed all their coats and skin looking great. When Tash had to Fly, I stopped using it but may well start again. ;) These are the direction from the site Sharlene gave -
Start by adding small amounts of ACV to your dog's drinking water and slowly building up to about 1 teaspoon of ACV per 15 pounds of body weight. Some dogs may not like the taste of vinegar in their water. If that's the case for your dog, mix ACV with his food, or mix it with a teaspoonful of raw honey.
http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/apple-cider-vinegar-for-dogs.html#uses
The same page gives directions for using the ACV as a rinse like the Chamomile.
I also have a sheet of OTC allergy product and doses for dogs if you want to try an alternative to the Benedryl in addition to the above. Benedryl helped Tash for a while then seemed to lose its effectiveness - plus it kept her dopey. :D
The very first thing I always look at is the diet. Dogs can develop food allergies when they eat the same thing for a long time. The brand of feed may change, the base (chicken, lamb, beef, etc) may change yet there may be a constant ingredient in all those feeds that they react to - two very common ones are corn and soy. Finding a novel protein can sometimes help. By "novel protein" I mean a protein source they have not had before. If he has been eating primarily chicken, find a food with a venison or rabbit or bison, etc - looking at the ingredients for things like the corn and soy that may be in his current feed.
Allergies are frustrating for parents and vets alike because it is often so difficult to find the trigger(s). They have to be attached both internally and externally. We parents have to do most of the work - trying new things slowly, observing, and keeping detailed records of all we have tried and how they worked for our baby, as well as environmental effects. I hope you find something that will give your sweet boy some relief - and you, too! ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
molly muffin
04-20-2013, 10:32 AM
Allergies just make a person feel so miserable when they kick up, that I imagine it is the same for Buddy too.
Poor little guy. All snuffly and stuffy.
Dog allergies are so much harder to treat than human ones too. Just makes everything so much harder to treat. Crossing fingers that something will work for the liver and not cause an allergic reaction too.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-20-2013, 11:45 AM
Thank you for all the great herb information. :) Buddy's itching symptoms seems to be gone for now. I switched him to a limited ingredient Salmon based protein a few years ago. It made all the difference! His scratching stopped and his skin cleared up.
It was miraculous!:)
Yes chamomile tea works wonders for skin issues, but it's also a great eye goop cleaner! I keep a spray bottle of it in the refrigerator at all times. I brew a new cup every two or three days. I even use it for my eyes when they tend to feel a little dry or irritated. The cool tea is not only soothing, it also has anti-inflammatory and antibacterial properties. Love the Chamomile!:D
Buddy's biggest allergy issues right now are environmental. Those are very hard to pinpoint and I never know what is going to set them off. When I walked him around the block to try to strengthen his legs muscles, he had an allergy attack. I'm not sure what caused it. Now I can't even walking around the neighborhood Without his allergies going haywire. Yes Leslie, I think I need to look into the OTC allergy medications list. Benadryl seems to have lost as its effectiveness, and it makes Buddy feel so dopey. That was okay when he was taking it just the night. Now that he needs it regularly, he's drugged pretty much all the time. Poor baby!
Kathy and Buddy:)
Squirt's Mom
04-20-2013, 12:15 PM
Ok, here we go -
*Zyrtec (Cetirizine) - 10mg tablets sold as 24 hour tablets
Dose -1 mg/kg every 24 hours to start; can increase to every 12 hours if
needed
*Tavist-Allergy (Clemastine) - 1.34 mg tablets
Dose - 0.088 mg/kg every 12 hours
*Chlortimeton (Chlorpheniramine) - 4mg tablets
Dose - 0.50 mg/kg every 12 hours to start; can increase to every 8 hours if
needed
Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Budsters Mom
04-20-2013, 02:21 PM
Leslie,
Sorry, I don't know how to convert kg in lb (per pound)
When it says 1mg/kg, does that mean 1mg per lb ? I probably should know this, but unfortunately I don't. All I know is that Benadryl is 1 mg per lb.
Which one would you suggest I try first? Were any unusually gentle on the stomach since Buddy is already taking Trilostane and Pepcid?
His stomach has finally settled for the most part since starting Trilo.
I seem to ALWAYS have more questions!!:confused:
Thank you so much,
Kathy and Buddy:)
Squirt's Mom
04-20-2013, 02:45 PM
Sorry! To convert you divide the pounds by 2.2 and that will give the kilograms. So say Buddy weighs 10lbs, it would be 10 / 2.2 = 4.5454... or 4 1/2 kg. Then you multiply the 4.5 by the recommended dose.
When the Benedryl stopped working for Tash, I went with the Cholrtimeton and it didn't upset her tummy in the least. That worked for her the remainder of her time - about 4 months - with no negative side effects. Tash weighed 13lbs and she took 1/2 tablet every 12 hours. 13 / 2.2 = 5.9090... Then 5.90 x .50 = 2.95...just about half of a 4mg a tablet.
Hope this helps! And NEVER worry about asking questions! Goodness, you should see some of my old posts. :p It's a wonder the folks here didn't send the men in little white coats for me! :D:D
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Budsters Mom
04-20-2013, 03:32 PM
Thanks again Leslie,:)
I'm going to try the Chlor-Trimeton. Buddy weighs 16 pounds. If I did my calculations correctly, that would mean he would need about 3/4 of a tablet. Is that right? If I didn't do my conversion correctly, let's keep that to ourselves. I don't want my students to find out that I messed up a math problem! I'd never hear the end of it! Ha!:D
How is Squirt doing today? Is she eating any better? Did you take them off that horrible incontinence medication?
Kathy and Buddy:)
Squirt's Mom
04-20-2013, 06:36 PM
That looks good to me, Kathy! I hope it helps him like it did Tash.
Squirt is eating ok as long as I keep her feed changing fairly often. After she eats the same thing for a few meals, she's through with that one and we try another one. I have 8 different feeds in the house now plus her home cooked food - which she flat refuses. When they get old, they can lose their sense of smell and taste so lose interest in eating at times - it's just blah to them. So I'm trying to keep it interesting! PetCo LOVES me lately! :p
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Budsters Mom
04-21-2013, 12:52 PM
Good morning all!:
I don't know what I'd do without this wonderful group of angels disguised as average people going about their day. YOU DON'T FOOL ME!;) You are heavenly bodies strategically placed around the globe to join forces at a moments notice. To provide love, support, answers, and a friendly ear. Since being welcomed into your family, I have yet to sprout wings, and possibly never well. I am trying hard to be worthy of all of you and to reach out to help others like you so selflessly do. Thank you for always being there!:)
Kathy and Buddy:D
Bo's Mom
04-21-2013, 01:07 PM
Kathy,
You are wrong about your sprouting wings. :D. Ever since my Angel Bo was diagnosed and we were on this journey which for us was not so favorable, I have always been grateful to each and every individual who is on this group. We all share some common bond to have loved and been loved back by these wonderful animals who so unselfishly give and gave of themselves. I think I owe it to all the fur babies and their families my shoulders/my ears and whatever else is needed to help others in need as they deal with this disease.
You too have been given that chance and we welcome you and thank you for all.
apollo6
04-21-2013, 02:43 PM
Dear Kathy and Buddy
Just dropped by to say hi. Here if you need me.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo
Harley PoMMom
04-21-2013, 02:46 PM
Oh Kathy,
Thank you so much for everything that YOU do. This forum works because of everyone. We all make a conscience effort to help each other, whether that be by our knowledge, our love or our support, all of these things are vital to make this forum work.
Bless you, dear Kathy, you are doing a wonderful job on the forum, and you are helping many members, remember that.
Love and hugs,
Lori
Budsters Mom
04-21-2013, 03:25 PM
Sonja,
I have your contact information readily at hand and I am very grateful for it! :):p It is very reassuring to know that you are just a phone call or email away. Thank you again for reaching out to me.:)
It is angels such as you that make me feel so honored to be a part of this group. :p
Buddy is doing very well now, except for allergies. Those have been running amuck lately!:(:eek: Buddy's next ACTH test will be about the 9th or 10th of May. That is the 30 day mark. I know that you're a wealth of information and love. Rest assured, I will keep in contact with you! Thank you for checking up on us!:) Feel free to call or email me anytime!
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:D
Trixie
04-21-2013, 04:24 PM
Kathy You have been so helpful checking in with me as you have done this week! Thank you and all here that have offered advice, support and hand holding through all this worry!! How I hate feeling worried and it so easily takes over. Thank goodness I found this board! Don't know what I would have done over the last week without everyone here!!
:D
Barbara
molly muffin
04-21-2013, 08:21 PM
Oh Kathy, sweetie HUGE HUGS! You have wings too. :) We all do, because we help each other. It's what makes this forum work the way it does. Like one great big ole family gathered together. We come in and out the front door, slide out the back sometimes to check on things, some settle in at the kitchen, but we are all here together for each other. When someone rings the bell we all come running from every part of the house to see what is going on, who needs help and then we all just jump to lend a helping hand.
I rather like that scenario. :) You are right there in the midst of this family, helping each other out.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-21-2013, 11:17 PM
Hello, :D
I just started a photo album of Buddy on my user page. Check it out for a laugh! :D
You were right Sharlene, Norman is adorable!
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-21-2013, 11:49 PM
oh Buddy is sooo cute and adorable!
We have the most the cutest furbabies ever on here :)
thanks for sharing. I love to see all the pictures of our precious ones
hugs
s
Sharlene
kelly143
04-22-2013, 12:25 AM
Hi Budster Lover,
I am Kelly, just a regular new cush mom sending love and prayers for you and your little Budster. I just want you to know that time does heal, and support from those who have been there can litteraly save you! I was a wreak when we were diagnosed. I took the advise of the ANGELS on this site. They really care and are devoted to helping you thru this difficult time. They helped me with the questions to ask my vet and with support, faith, and just knowing there is someone out there who knows what this is like to go thru. My Beanie was diagnosed a few months ago. Now she is running around again, and yesterday she actually did a play bow!!!! She is getting slimmer now that her pot belly is going away. She is no longer drinking gallons of water. The only downside is now her allergies are back and she is "itchy" again, and her hair is falling out in places. I believe the hair will return someday, but until then I am fine with my Beanie feeling better and giving me regular kisses daily again. :D
You may have a few "all nighters", but for what it is worth, Netflix is nice to avoid the stupid infomercials!!!!
Take a deep breath and know that there are real people out there who actually care about what you are going thru and who really know thier stuff about this "bump in the road of life". There are also people like me, only really qualified to give you a "virtual hug", ;) who are learning more every day about this problem, and getting stronger by the love and support given to us by this amazing group of ANGLES who seem to be standing by us to give valuable information, love and guidance.
My prayers are with you and your baby Budster. My gratitude again to the ANGELS who gave me strength and lifted my spirits when I was so very frightened.
I hope this message is of some help to you. I know that the middle of the night seems to be the darkest, loneliest, and scariest time when your babe is suffering. I also know that the lack of sleep can drain you of your strength to deal with all of it. Just be assured that this too shall pass, and the more you learn, the more power you will have to deal with all of it.
Love, Kelly143, the Beanielover
Budsters Mom
04-22-2013, 01:15 AM
Thank you Kelly,
Buddy is doing much better now and I too was terrified, frustrated, desperate and a general mess at first! :eek:
Your message was very sweet, caring and nurturing. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to me. I have never had such an outpouring of love before. It is mind-boggling and much appreciated!:)
Buddy has allergies to. It does make treating our Cush pups a little more challenging! I am so glad your sweet little Beanie is doing so well!:)
Yes, I agree that all of these angels are a force to be reckoned with. I am sure glad that I am with them. I wouldn't want to get in their way as they make their magic happen. :)
So Kelly, thanks again for your well wishes, love and prayers.:)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:D
Budsters Mom
04-22-2013, 12:21 PM
It was really hard to leave Buddy to go to work this morning. His stomach was upset before breakfast. He was retching like he was going to lose his cookies. His stomach has been touchy since starting Trilo. Pepcid has helped with that, but occasionally he still has trouble. I was torn as to whether to give him his Trilo with breakfast. He could be already low, which could cause a crash and no one would be there!!!! :eek: Then again, his stomach is probably just touchy and might settle with food. Oh, what to do?:confused: I finally gave him a smaller breakfast and his pill. He gobbled it up, looking for more. I hope I made the right call:confused: It is going to be a very worrisome work day!:(
Kathy and Buddy:)
Harley PoMMom
04-22-2013, 01:48 PM
It really can be a tough call when you don't know if it is just a sensitive tummy or something else. I believe, if I were you, that if he is still not acting himself when you go home that I would hold off on giving the Trilostane and schedule to have an ACTH stim test done ASAP.
You are doing a fantastic job!
Love and hugs,
Lori
It is a hard call, Kathy, when in doubt withhold the pill. I try to see how else Zoe is acting to evaluate, but we have been doing this for awhile so I know how she acts. When you first start, with no behavior history, it can be hard to judge sometimes.
You are doing a fine job:):)
Trixie
04-22-2013, 04:59 PM
Hi Kathy,
I hope Buddy had a good day while you were at work. Before any Cushings Trixie often had a sour stomach when she woke up and would do that same kind of pre vomit wretching. A little food always helped with that in her case, I'm hoping that's all it was with Buddy's tummy this morning.
It's a good sign that he was hungry and gobbled up his meal I would think. Will be looking forward to your report later. I hope your day at work went quickly. I know that feeling when you're worried and just want to get home to your little pup! Hoping when you get home from work Buddy is chipper and feeling just fine. ;)
Barbara
Mel-Tia
04-22-2013, 06:11 PM
Just checking into see how you and buddy are?
Hoping also he seems better when you get home...
Mel
Xxxxx
molly muffin
04-22-2013, 07:37 PM
Hi Kathy, checking in to see how Buddy is this evening.
Hope your day was filled with too much worry. :( So hard to leave them when you are worried.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Simba's Mom
04-22-2013, 07:41 PM
Just checking in on you and Buddy!
Budsters Mom
04-22-2013, 09:52 PM
Thank you for all of your help and well wishes.:p
Buddy is absolutely fine!:) He was just yapping at some birds that had the nerve to land in his front yard. Now he is following me around telling me that he thinks his dinner is late.
I on the other hand am a wreck!:eek::( The men with the whitecoats are on the way!:eek: I worked myself into a frazzle at work and came home with a migraine! :(. Needless to say, I am not much use to anyone today, not even myself. I plan on going to bed early or at least crawl into a black hole somewhere. Tomorrow will be better, I'm sure.:)
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-22-2013, 09:59 PM
Well, sounds like Buddy is himself alright. hehehe
You my dear, need some TLC and away time. A nice bed and a snuggle, or even a couch with a blanket (because blankets make us feel good no matter what) is in order. Maybe a nice cup of camomile tea or something similiar to calm the nerves. Nothing with caffeine if it's a migraine!
Don't forget to take care of you too!!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Harley PoMMom
04-22-2013, 10:02 PM
I am glad to hear that Buddy is acting like himself.
Migraines, ARG!! I get them too and they are just plain awful, take care of yourself and I do hope your migraine goes away very fast.
Love and hugs,
Lori
Trixie
04-22-2013, 10:59 PM
Great news that Buddy is doing fine! How I hate that worried feeling!! Just glad it all ended up okay!
Hope that headache is gone! ;)
Barbara
Budsters Mom
04-22-2013, 11:07 PM
I just received Buddy's Trilostane prescription refill today. I am still being instructed to give it to him on an empty stomach, 2 times per day.:eek:
He is always taken it one time per day. I uploaded a couple pictures of the prescription bottle onto my album under "check it out."
Kathy and Buddy:)
molly muffin
04-22-2013, 11:26 PM
Holy Cow! Those people are clueless. :mad::mad:
Thank god, Buddy has you! Speechless in Canada :rolleyes:
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
04-26-2013, 01:27 AM
Hello all,:)
Buddy is due for another ACTH test 30 days after the last one. He is doing very well on his current Trilostane dosage of 20mg. once per day. His clinical signs are controlled for the most part. The only one remaining is rear leg weakness. Since he is doing so well, would it be safe if I were to push that test back about a week or so? I have plenty of 20 mg capsules left. The 30 day mark is going to hit right in the middle of state testing. That isn't something that a sub can just come in and do well, particularly when working with special needs students. I guess what I'm really asking is would it be safe for me to leave him on his current dose for a week or so longer? I need to get his ACTH test done during work hours because of the timeframe in which it needs to be done. That means taking a day off. Any thoughts?
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Harley PoMMom
04-26-2013, 01:34 AM
Kathy,
Since Buddy is doing so well, I believe it would be fine to keep him at his current dose. Having the ACTH stim test done at the appropriate time is vital for accurate results, so rescheduling his ACTH stim test so it can be done properly is a great idea.
You are doing a fantastic job!!
Love and hugs,
Lori
labblab
04-26-2013, 07:53 AM
Kathy, I think it should be just fine, too. I am so glad to hear about Buddy's improvements! :)
It does take longer to see resolution with issues such as muscle weakness, pot belly, and loss of hair. So even though this dose may turn out to be exactly right for him, it will just take some time to see more improvement.
In the meantime, Go Buddy Go!! ;)
Marianne
molly muffin
04-26-2013, 09:48 AM
Hi Kathy, I too think it's pretty awesome that Buddy is doing so well. As Marianne says, some things take longer to see improvements in, but over all Buddy has done great.
I don't think pushing back is a problem till after state testing is over either. Mutual mass agreement. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
BreeandDaisy
04-26-2013, 11:09 AM
My vet would always tell us to come in "the week of..." and not a particular day for testing. So, I think it would be ok.
Budsters Mom
04-26-2013, 06:23 PM
Ladies,
Thank you for your support and wealth of information once again.:)
Where else can I get so much praise, guidance, information, support and virtual hugs!:)
Let me know and I'll join that group too!! Haha!:D
Hugs to all,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
04-26-2013, 06:27 PM
LOL. Well there is our sister site for diabetes. They give out hugs pretty freely too. Hehehehe
More hugs!
Sharlene
Boriss McCall
04-26-2013, 06:58 PM
I waited a week longer at one point & it was okay. Glad Buddy is doing so well. Way to go!! :)
Budsters Mom
04-28-2013, 02:39 PM
Hi all,:)
I just loaded a photo of buddy to my profile. It is in the "here's buddy" album. It was taken this morning. It is called "lazy Sunday morning". His stomach was shaved for his ultrasound a little over a month ago. If you look carefully, you can see that the hair is growing on his tummy!!!! Check it out!
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Trixie
04-28-2013, 03:03 PM
Oh Buddy! He looks so adorable in his chill-axing Sunday pose! Trixie came back from a really long walk and she's been lying on the cool floor for awhile now. Her belly is shaved too! The rest of her really needs a clipping. Haven't had the heart to make her go thru a grooming on top of everything she's been through lately but this week she will really need to get a clip.
Buddy is so cute! How has he been feeling? Trixie started on the 7mg yesterday. Doing fine so far. (keeping fingers crossed and eagle eyes on her!)
Hope you and Buddy continue to have a relaxing Sunday.:D
Barbara
molly muffin
04-28-2013, 04:11 PM
Buddy is way adorable! I love the new avatar photo too. :) and look who else has a new avatar photo. :cool:
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
goldengirl88
04-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Kathy:
I just had a chance to look at Buddy's pictures. He is absolutely too cute!!! God Bless You and Buddy
Patti
SoggyDoggy
04-28-2013, 11:04 PM
Hi Kathy,
I just had o check out Budster's album, and wow, what a cutey! I do admire his extensive wardrobe :D
I also saw the script bottle you had posted, and the instructions for before/after food! WTH???? :eek::eek: Glad you at least know what you are doing, cause the vet/dispenser clearly doesn't :eek:
Oh well, glad to hear Buddy is doing so well. Its strange how we all stress out so badly when this starts, but as time goes on, it's just part of daily life. Knowledge IS power I guess. :D
Keep it up Mum, you are doing wonderfully!
Budsters Mom
04-29-2013, 01:20 PM
Hi Naomi,
I love your insight! Yes, terrified at first, then it does just get to be a part of life. :p Buddy has very high liver levels and a grossly large liver. I'm trying to enjoy what time I have left with him and not stress so much about things I'm unable to control. You have all helped me come to that realization.
Buddy is allergic to grass also. I've never thought to put socks on him. What a great idea! Thanks!
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy
SoggyDoggy
04-29-2013, 01:46 PM
Oh I can see it now, matching socks and jumpers! He'll be the envy of the neighbourhood! I must say though, I never would have guess that Oz would take to them so easily, and not having to listed to the chewing of paws for two nights in a row is just heaven on earth! :D eBay have some great ones I just saw, super cheap and lots of different designs. They stay on the feet well as they are cotton with non slip pads on the bottom, but they stretch around the feet without confining. Just like socks on your own foot. Worth the try! And hey, anything to make them happy huh?
molly muffin
04-29-2013, 07:02 PM
Doggy socks?!! And they don't pull them off at night? I tried booties on Molly once and she refused to take a step in them, just lay down and went limp like they were killing her. (she is a bit of a drama queen sometimes) still if it helped her to leave her paws alone. She has habit licking paws and tail. I Wonder if they make a sock for the tail too. hmmm
Naomi is right. Buddy be styling.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
doxiesrock912
04-29-2013, 09:57 PM
We put winter boots on our miniature poodle, Miskit.
She sort of walked as if she had major soreness from riding a horse or something! Exaggerated, slow, with each leg sticking as far away from her body as she could make it go. God forbid one of those boots actually touched her!
Trixie
04-29-2013, 10:15 PM
I see people here in the city that use these little doggie rain socks.
They are good for when there is ice melter and salt on the icy sidewalks but Trixie won't stand for any apparel...especially on the paws! They look balloons that haven't been inflated. So funny to see the little paws with these brightly colored "rubbers"! :D
Is Buddy agreeable to "paw-wear'?? :)
Budsters Mom
04-29-2013, 10:28 PM
Barbara,
Buddy had to wear a sock a few years ago when he Was bandaged after a paw pad injury. He didn't like it much. I had to tape it so he wouldn't pull it off. He also had to wear a cone because he couldn't leave it alone. :( Naomi's fur baby Oscar, wear socks because of a grass allergy. Buddy is allergic to grass also among many other things.:(
I pretty much have to keep him away from grass totally because of his grass allergy. That's why I was thinking that maybe the socks might help him. That's if I could get him to leave them on!:D
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Trixie
04-29-2013, 10:44 PM
Kathy, These little rubber socks look like they stay on somehow...they are called Pawz.
here is a link for them..they would be great to shield Buddy's paws from the grass.
http://pawzdogboots.com/
SoggyDoggy
04-30-2013, 01:57 AM
The Pawz are great, my Dad uses them for one of his dogs. They have floor boards throughout the house and Jake (13.5 y/o poodle) slips all over the place. They bought the boots to try and were a raging success! Jake doesn't try to pull them off, in fact he asks for them to be put on! :eek: As soon as they are, he runs bog-laps around the house in a happy dance. They are non slip obviously so it basically gave him his legs back. :D
I use the socks on Oz because his feet are so small I couldn't get the pawz on him (I tried them too), but his feet when standing are pretty much the same width as his ankles, so there is nothing to hold them in place. I've tried boots in the past too, and bandages with tape, but the boots fell off and he hated the tape - it was constricting. I don't know why, he doesn't object to the boots at all. Probably because they are so soft, the stretch so don't constrict his feet, but he can still run and walk in them easily. (except, if he runs too fast, they do tend to fall off). In a 30 minute trip to the park, I will usually pull them up at least once, but it's a small price to pay. I do realise when winter hits us that they will get wet when we go for a walk, but as long as it keeps the grass off his paws I'm cool with that. We also don't worry about them at any other time. For now it is just the walks, so he doesn't object too strongly.
Mel-Tia
05-01-2013, 04:53 PM
Hey Kathy
Just checking in to see how you and the Buddy are?
Hoping his allergies aren't bothering him too much
Big hug
Mel
Xxxxx
Budsters Mom
05-01-2013, 06:01 PM
Hi Mel,
We are both doing well. Thanks for asking.:)
Buddy's allergies continue to wreck havoc at times, but they are better for the most part. I tried to change his antihistamine because Benadryl drugs him so much and it wasn't working well. The change upset his stomach, so I switched back to Benadryl. I didn't want to have to deal with stomach issues again, particularly when he's on Trilostane.:(
As far as Cushing's symptoms, the only one that remains is rear leg weakness. Even that doesn't seem to slow him down much. He is unstable when he walks across the tile floor because his back legs often slip out from under him. Right now he is guarding in the front doorway, watching through the security doors. You never know when one of those pesky lizards might try to come through the crack in the door.:D
Yesterday, he actually caught one in the backyard and brought it inside to show me his prize! I told him to drop it and he did. Unfortunately,I didn't realize the lizard was still alive!:eek: It took off like a shot under the couch. Chaos ensued. The mighty lizard hunter was beside himself with grief over the loss of his prize and yapped hysterically. It was a ridiculously insane moment!:D:eek: All I could do was double up on the floor and LOL. A moment that never would've been possible before treatment!:)
Hugs to all,
Kathy and Buddy:)
Simba's Mom
05-01-2013, 06:06 PM
Hi Kathy, I love all your stories about Buddy and his lizards, could be a title for a children's book :) it's awesome to hear that he is feeling better, even though his back legs are still bothering him....Simba has that too, seems like he can't move them sometimes, kinda scary but then he will run for his treats...wierd...anyways, glad for happy moments for you and Buddy, take care!
Mel-Tia
05-01-2013, 06:15 PM
Rubbish the pills upset his belly it's such a delicate balance
Lizards would make Boyce pitch a fit, I bet he is really funny to watch when he is in stalking mode
Could you get some mats to put down in a line on the tiles He could then run around without slipping. I have wood floor so have mats as well
Budsters Mom
05-01-2013, 06:36 PM
I tried putting mats down in the kitchen/dining room area and in the bathrooms. The rest of the house is carpeted. Mr. High and Mighty walked around the Mats, refusing to step on them, as if they were hot lava! Buddy is very bright and a little nuts! :D That's not a good combination!
;)
Hug,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-01-2013, 06:49 PM
I love Buddy's personality. He is just hilarious! I laugh every time you tell one.
I agree, Buddy the Mighty Lizard Hunter, childrens book title. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin
Boriss McCall
05-01-2013, 06:55 PM
ha.. I love the lizard story! He is so funny.
Fellasmom
05-01-2013, 10:48 PM
Hi Kathy and Buddy!
Just wanted to say thanks for all your love,support and kind words.I've only just begun to be able to start going thru the threads here and just wanted to say hello to you and Buddy.He sounds like quite the character and love the lizard story-made me laugh!!Hugs to you and your baby!
Love,
Patty
Budsters Mom
05-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Patty,
Thank you so much for your lovely message. :o. I like many others, have had precious fur babies cross the rainbow bridge. I want You to know that we are with you and that we understand.
Trixie
05-02-2013, 12:50 AM
Buddy is scoring those lizards. Haven't they caught on yet that Buddy is on the prowl and they should watch their step! Did you ever find the one that went under the couch? :confused: That lizard better watch it if it's still hanging around.
Hate to hear the allergies are still causing discomfort...is it the time of year with leaf and grass pollen blowing around? Poor Buddy..sounds like it doesn't get him down though.
So great that only the back leg symptom is prominent and all other symptoms are gone. The legs should continue to get better from what I hear. Again..it doesn't sound like it holds him back at all...especially from the hunt! :D
Barbara
Budsters Mom
05-02-2013, 06:34 PM
Yes Barbara, I did catch the lizard. This is not the first, second, or third time, that this is happened! Buddy loves to bring in his prizes to share!:p I have a system for just such an occurrence. The lizard was released unharmed this time!:D
It is 97° here today!:eek: Buddy has not been able to lizard hunt this afternoon, so he is restless! He usually goes out for a while when I get home from work. I can't let him out in the heat because once he gets a whiff of something, he is not leaving it! He will sit there and stare at a hole under the fence for hours waiting for that little critter to come out! I have to bring him in when he starts to get obsessed, Or he will frantically dig until he tears up his paws. Always the mighty hunter!:D
I am glad to hear that Trixie is doing so well!:)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-02-2013, 07:51 PM
Buddy has some serious determination going on! Man, him and Molly would terrorize the neighborhood and certainly the lizard populations! hahahahahaa
He sure is a charmer.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
05-04-2013, 02:34 AM
Do Cush dogs run hotter due to raising cortisol levels?:confused:
It has been pretty hot the last few days, close to 100 degrees. I realize that those of you who are shoveling snow right now are not too sympathetic!:D Buddy has had a hard time cooling himself down enough to go to bed. AC is on during the day, so it's not that hot! It cools down in the evening so it's comfortable by bedtime, but he continues to pant heavily. I have been reluctant to buzz him down because his hair doesn't grow back as quickly anymore. It looks like I need to go ahead and do it tomorrow. Buddy only gets his Trilo in the morning and has been doing great. Could he need twice a day dosing? He is due for his ACTH test around the 9th. Due to administering state testing, I won't be able to get it done until about a week or so later, unless it's an emergency, of course. The heat always bothered him, but not usually this much. I am about ready to put him in the pool!!! ;) Buddy has been fine all day until now, which is 10:00 PM. He has been whimpered a few times in the last half hour or so. I gave him a body massage to see if there were any painful areas, he go no indication of any pain. Any thoughts?
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Trish
05-04-2013, 04:09 AM
Hi Kathy
I wonder if he has an itch he cannot get at, just putting that out there as my boy did this a few times this week. Just laying there, then a whimper. Once I got that under control with bit of antihistamine he has been good. Flynn loves it in the sun too, but he would lay out there sunbathing till his blood boiled or hunt about, latest prey is mice! Eek, least he has not brought them inside!
Stay cool! :)
Harley PoMMom
05-04-2013, 04:12 AM
Do Cush dogs run hotter due to raising cortisol levels?:confused:
Yes, I believe, that dog's with Cushing's are prone to "heat flashes" and seek cooler places to lay. I used to have Harley's belly shaved and then I would spritz water on his belly and paws to help him stay cool.
Love and hugs, Lori
goldengirl88
05-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Kathy;
I know for a fact they are prone to heat problems, as I have been told by 2 Vets that that can no longer cool the core of their bodies well. If you walk your dog get a cool pack for them to wear. Get a fan ready or air conditioning as my Tipper is already hot and panting and summer has just started. When it doesn't even feel hot to me, and I am really sensitive to it with Lupus, she is hot so don't go by how you feel. When Tipper goes in my closet for storms I will have to put a fan in it as it is really hot and stuffy in there. She does not like the fan, but it is better than her succumbing to heat stroke.. I walk her before 10:am and after 7:00pm and she has to have her harness on with a cooling pack inside. I only take her out in the yard in between to potty, or sit in the shade, but she is scared to stay out most of the time now. Good Luck. Blessings
Patti
molly muffin
05-04-2013, 10:47 AM
How is Buddy this morning. Not sure what the whimper was about, did you ever figure it out. Is he eating, drinking, pooping okay? No vomiting?
I thought that as the cortisol becomes more regulated that they stop the panting as much? High cortisol levels can raise the body temperature. Hopefully one of the others will know more about this.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
05-04-2013, 07:01 PM
It is flea season. Is Frontline Plus safe to use for dogs on Trilostane?:confused:
I called my vets office and got some vet I didn't know. I was told that it was okay. As you know, my vet's office doesn't have the most updated information concerning the use of Trilostane. So, I've come to the experts once again. :D
Since Buddy was so uncomfortable last night, I groomed him very short today. Check out the photo I just uploaded to my Album.
Buddy slept through most of his buzz. I did his entire cut except for his back and his head while he was sound asleep. You won't believe it unless you see it for yourself!:D
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-04-2013, 07:38 PM
That is sooooo funny. Who would have thought that would even be possible!
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
Simba's Mom
05-04-2013, 09:17 PM
What a handsome pup Buddy is, and the haircut is adorable! I never heard of a pup falling asleep while getting buzzed, what a character he is....love the lizard stories!!!!!!
Trixie
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
Kathy,
I can't believe Buddy slept through a buzz cut!! :D :D That is too funny! He looks so cute all sacked out with his paws hanging!!
I don't know about Frontline and Trilostane. I stopped using Frontline a couple summers ago. I had so many bouts of gastro problems with Trixie that I suspected the Frontline had something to do with it. My vet thought I was wrong but, well...I stopped using it anyway.
I bought an old fashioned flea and tick collar and when she is outside I leave it on and then I take it off inside the house and I do a good tick check on her, I supposed I'm taking chances but I try to really check thoroughly.
Buddy is all ready for the hot weather with his super cut! Trixie has to get to the groomer this week. I have been reluctant to take her but she really needs a clipping badly!
Barbara
SoggyDoggy
05-04-2013, 11:09 PM
Hooley Dooley! He slept through his cut? Wow, just goes to show how much love and trust he has in you :D
Anyway, as for the heat bit, just coming off a long hot summer (in fact, hottest on record for us), I absolutely noticed that Fraser was considerably hotter this year than he had been in the past. I ended up buying some cool mats for the boys to lie on, and once they worked out what they were for, they draped themselves over them every night and day. And this was when I had the aircon set at an ambient 24C too (which is really nice and comfortably cool for me) In previous years, this same temp was perfect for the boys but they both found it harder this year. I think in addition to the cushing's, as dogs get older their ability to stabilise their core temp starts to go too, so it just becomes doubly hard for our kids.
Buddy will definitely be cooler and more comfortable after his hair cut, a spritz of water on the back and belly can be nice too, but if he overheats still, I highly recommend looking into the cool mats. I bought the gel based one (neither of my boys are chewers though - that is something to consider) and they love it. (I have to admit, one particularly sticky night, I nicked it too :D)
As for the frontline, I am pretty sure it is safe, though I too don't use it. Oscar has a rinse after baths (cause it helps to control his skin itchy's, not for fleas) but fraser hasn't been flea'd in over a year. It's not something we have an issue with. Ticks aren't an issue here (unless you go bush - but we don't) and the parks we visit don't seem to be an issue for fleas either. It's either that, or Oz is covered by his rinse, and Fraser just doesn't smell right to fleas cause he hasn't had any in years!
You know, I reckon we should build a list of things that are safe and not safe to use with trilo and lyso. I've often wondered about various things like this. :p
Budsters Mom
05-04-2013, 11:29 PM
Thanks for all the great ideas. Naomi, I am going to check in to a cool mat. Buddy is not a chewer either, so it would probably be perfect! :D I'm going to hold off on the Frontline until I hear from some of the other angels. Thank again.:)
Buddy has been having some head tremors again. I'm not sure what is going on with that.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Simba's Mom
05-04-2013, 11:54 PM
Hey Kathy, could you explain what Buddy does when he has a head tremor, Sim is doing weird stuff too with his head, just wondered if it was the same....thanks
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 12:21 AM
Hi Letti,
Buddy's head tremors started a few months ago. He became ill overnight and ended up at his vet, then the emergency hospital. I was told there that he was having head tremors. He ended up at a specialty hospital a few days later for a neuro consult. The tremors had stopped by then. The neuro consult was to determine whether's Buddy was even stable enough for Cushing's testing. At the time, he had difficulty walking and could barely stand up. He hasn't had any head tremors since then until yesterday. When Buddy has one, his head only will vibrate/shake. When I touch his head, it feels like a vibrator. The rest of him is still and stressed. Buddy panics when it happens and he unable to settle until it stops. The length of time varies with each tremor. Some last longer than others. I hope this helps!
Hugs and love to you and Simba,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Harley PoMMom
05-05-2013, 12:27 AM
Kathy, I don't know of any contradictions in using Frontline and Trilostane together, so I believe it would be safe. Darn those fleas!!!
Love and hugs, Lori
molly muffin
05-05-2013, 12:28 AM
Hi Kathy, that is so very scary for you and for Buddy.
Did the neuro consult ever come up with a reason for the tremors? What is causing them?
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 01:27 AM
There were two neurologists and one neurosurgeon at Buddy's neuro consultation. The emergency hospital recommended a neuro consult because of Buddy's overnight inability to stand or walk. They did spinal rads at the emergency hospital ruling out a disc problem in his back. His vet would not proceed with Cushings testing without a neuro consult because he was having so many issues. The head tremors had disappeared by then. The neurologist wanted to do an MRI to determine if Buddy had a stroke. That would've cost over $3500 just for that test. There is nothing I could do about a stroke anyway. Since they gave me the clearance to go ahead with Cushing's testing, I decided to do that, because at least that could be treated. I had already paid Close to $3000 in three days not counting the neuro consult. The neurologists thought that the head tremors were probably caused by Buddy's liver throwing off clots which can happen with uncontrolled endocrine diseases like Cushings. At that time, Cushings was suspected at all three hospitals, but had not been tested. The emergency hospital did an ultrasound which revealed a very large liver, extending over all the other organs. Yesterday afternoon and evening his head tremors returned. He also had a couple of them today. He is doing so well with his Cushing symptoms abating, now this! He was able to stand, then walk and even run within a few days of his neuro-consult. I don't know what to think now. I don't know if Buddy's vets know anymore about head tremors then they do about Cushings treatment.
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Simba's Mom
05-05-2013, 01:31 AM
Aw, I feel so bad for you and Buddy, how scary....what next is right with our pups, praying for your Buddy that his head tremors get better and that you are ok too....hugs and thanks for explaining...
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 12:36 PM
Tears are streaming down my face as I dictate this. When Buddy ended up at the emergency hospital because he was so ill, he was having head tremors at that time. He was so ill that he could not stand up by himself and was obviously in distress. A tumor was suspected because his liver look so large on the x-rays the regular vet. I had to leave him at the emergency vet so they could do an ultrasound and see if there was a mass. I had already started the grieving process expecting to have to let him go. I was determined not to let him suffer. I cried going out to the car carrying his Sherpa bag. I was unable to drive so I sat there in the car for a long time. I finally composed myself enough to drive home. Several hours later I was called to come pick him up. There was no mass, just a very large liver extending over the organs. They had fed him a couple hours before and he ate eagerly with no more vomiting. His head tremors had stopped. He wasn't ready to move on. We followed up with his vet a 2 days later. His head tremors had not returned. We left with the neuro referral and the rest is history. After getting his Cushings tested and controlled, the head tremors rear their ugly face again! I am back to square one. I don't want him to suffer. The head tremors obviously distress him. Will they stop again and for how long?:confused: It is all very sad. :( Yes, I am enjoying every precious minute that I have with him. Yes, I'm try not to look at what is yet to come, but it's hard. Especially hard when I thought the head tremors were gone. He is a perfectly fine, happy,little lizard hunter for the most part.i don't know what to do! :confused:
frijole
05-05-2013, 01:09 PM
Have you ruled out a macro tumor (pituitary gland)? Obviously something is going on that they haven't figured it out. I'm kind of surprised that they thought treating the cushings would cease the head tremors. This isn't really something we see unless it is a macro tumor.
Perhaps you know all of this but just to be safe as I don't have time right now to read the entire history - most cases of cushings are pituitary tumors - very small near the brain. In about 1% of those cases the micro tumor becomes a macro tumor - it grows.
Have they done a cat scan of the brain? I know the last thing you need is more expense but I would think the neurologists would be focused on the head/brain vs the liver. But I'm not a neurologist.
You must be exhausted. I totally understand what is like to not have answers. Hang in there. Sending love, Kim
Oh Kathy,
Hugs and love,
the head tremors, they did not think it was some kind of seizure?
I have to wonder too about doing a cat scan as Kim suggested. I know money can be an issue, gosh, I cant believe what we have spent on Zoe in three years but if you could swing it----
Also, was Buddy tested for any tick borne diseases?
(((((((((((luv)))))))))))))))))))
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 03:52 PM
I emailed the neuro-surgeon who did Buddy's consult to ask about a possible macro-tumor causing his head tremors. I copied part of it to share with you.......
Last Friday (May 3,) Buddy's head tremors returned. He had a couple of them on Friday, again yesterday, and one already this morning. His head vibrates/shakes when they occur. It feels like touching a vibrator. The rest of his body is still. He panics, whimpers and stays close until it subsides. A micro-tumor on his Pituitary gland caused his Cushings. Could it be growing into a macro-tumor causing the tremors? Would you recommend a cat scan of his brain to check for a Macro-tumor or do you think the tremors are caused by something else? Finances are an issue, so I would need to know how much a CAT scan would cost, Or whether it's worth even scanning for it under the circumstances.
Buddy is due for another ACTH test soon. That is another $300. His Cushings symptoms have all abated except for Rear leg weakness, which is better. He has been fine until the tremors started. I'm thinking that I need to focus on figuring out the tremors first and worry about the ACTH later.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
goldengirl88
05-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Kathy:
So sorry to hear about Buddy's problem with the head shaking. That is not anything I have ever heard about on here before. I pray it is not a macro tumor. I do know that Tipper's CT scan is going to be 950.00 if that helps you. The worst part of getting a scan to see if it is a macro tumor is there is virtually nothing you can do, except radiation and brain surgery. They are both very costly. That is why I never had Tipper's CT for the tumor on her Pituitary. In a way I really don't want to know because if I found out she had little time to live, I don't know how I would make it thru the day, it would just killl me. I swear I would just have a massive meltdown. I am praying for Buddy. Blessings
Patti
frijole
05-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Good girl for sending the email. Re prices - they are all over the map but often teaching schools are less. I don't have the options you do - I had to drive 5 hrs each way to the nearest specialist which happened to be K State Univ Vet Hospital for my Annie. She was there 2 days and they did all sorts of blood work, ultrasounds, MRI, cat scan and her total bill was like $1400. They did the cat scan to rule out a macro and pituitary cushings (she ended up not having cushings at all).
I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there. Kim
molly muffin
05-05-2013, 07:39 PM
Hi Kathy,
sorry to hear the head tremors are back. I am googling like crazy. :) So, anything seem to trigger the tremors? Such as an activity, running around, etc. Have they checked eyes and ears? Is the tremor movement, left to right, up and down? Does Buddy seem in any pain during this? Is Buddy alert during the tremor? Are you able to refocus him during a tremor, sometimes with a treat in front of them? Something maybe like peanut butter, honey or something sweet vs a regular treat. I'm throwing ideas and questions up as I am reading, so sorry if they are disjointed.
Tremors are fairly easy to differentiate from seizures because of their regularity. They can happen during rest or activity, but tend to worsen with excitement and lessen with rest. Owners often describe tremors as “shaking” or “shuddering”.
hugs,
Sharlene
doxiesrock912
05-05-2013, 07:44 PM
Kathy,
Daisy's head became wobbly one night when we first started the Trilostane. We lowered the dose, tested (ACTH) 3 weeks later and increased the dose to the original amount. She hasn't had them since.
Hope Buddy feels better soon!
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 08:11 PM
Yes, Buddy is very aware of the tremors. He whimpers and stays close to me until they pass. His tremors are not caused by a high Trilo dose. He had them when he was so ill, before Cushings was discovered. They involve the whole head, no just one side. The movement is a vibration like a pager in a restaurant. Yes, they checked eyes and ears at all three hospitals, when they first started. They were clear. I don't know of any triggers. Friday was a normal work day. I was working out in the pool with a friend when one hit around 6:00 PM. He came over to the side of the pool and stood there looking helpless. I could see that he was having a tremor.He could have had others earlier in the day. I wasn't home. He had already had dinner, so he wasn't hungry. He had another one about an hour later. Yesterday, he had a couple during the day. He was groomed, but slept through most of it. He had another one this morning shortly after getting up. They don't follow a pattern. Their duration is varied. They can range from a few to several minutes. I don't know if Buddy is in any pain, but he's definitely aware and frightened. He is not distractible with any treats during a tremor. He looks at me with those big brown eyes begging for me to make it stop. He does best lying in his nest bed with me gently petting and talking to him softly until they pass. He appears stoic for quite a while after and doesn't leave his bed. That's about it. Thanks for helping me check it out.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
doxiesrock912
05-05-2013, 08:31 PM
Poor Buddy, I'm sure that it's scary when your body is doing something that you have no control over. I don't imagine that it hurts, just scary for him and you.
Daisy's was more of a head wobbly thing, like a child who is fighting to stay awake and their heads go from side to side slowly.
You are a huge comfort to him when they happen though. He knows that he's not alone and that you are there to help.
frijole
05-05-2013, 08:40 PM
I would video an episode so you can show it to the vet. Annie had full body trembling which I now know was when her pheo tumor was active and that is why it came and went. If I hadn't taken the video the vet would never have seen it. I think it's worth doing so you can show what you are talking about. Poor baby. Sending hugs, Kim
Fellasmom
05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
Kathy
Keeping you and Buddy in my prayers.CT scan at Tufts plus preop blood work ran around 1200.So frustrating everything has to be so expensive!My friend's dog has a seizure disorder and presents very similar to what you described.Hope they can figure out the why this is happening.Hugs to you and Buddy.
Budsters Mom
05-05-2013, 10:17 PM
Thank you all,:)
Kim -The video is a great idea and so easy. I can take it with my Ipod, then play it for them or email it to them. :) I will definitely do that!:)
There has been only one tremor so far today, around 7:30 AM. I have been watching Buddy closely yesterday and today. I have to go to work tomorrow as it's the first day of State testing. Testing runs for two weeks. I can't wait til Summer, so I can be home. I don't like having to leave him knowing that he may have a tremor while I'm gone and be alone.:(
Hugs to all,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-05-2013, 10:59 PM
Oh I know that is so scary to be worried about them when you have to be away.
Buddy has allergies I wonder if this is due to something he is allergic to. It might not be something that has been active for him again till now. I don't know if that would be something environmental or something in his food though. A question for your neuro team to look into. Also did they rule out virus possibility of some sort? These are a couple of things I've found mentioned around the internet searches I did earlier, in which a head tremor happens with no lose of conscious, etc.
Hang in there Kathy. You're doing okay and as long as this is something that he Does come out of, while it is scary for both you and him, it is hopefully not life threatening and is something that perhaps they can find a cause for.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Simba's Mom
05-06-2013, 01:59 AM
First off you are a great Mom to your precious Buddy, and second praying his head tremors go away, poor Buddy...what a scary thing to go through....sending hugs
Mel-Tia
05-06-2013, 07:19 AM
Hey Kathy
Just sending you a big hug before work and a belly rub for Buddy
Must be scary for you both, I hope you get some response to your email today
Fingers crossed work flies and you can get home to your little man quickly
Mel
Xxxxx
Trish
05-06-2013, 07:35 AM
HI Kathy
I hope you get some answers from your vet as to what is going on with your wee man. How scary for you and him. Hope all goes well when you head back to work. I wonder if he needs seizure medication? I think they need to check him out and think the video is a great idea.
Good luck with getting it sorted asap!
Trish
Trixie
05-06-2013, 05:28 PM
Kathy,
I hope today is going by quickly so you can get home to Buddy. I agree making a video could help so the vet could see exactly what happens.
Glad there was only one episode yesterday...and hoping for none today! How has he been doing since you've been home today? Thinking positive thoughts for Buddy!! :)
Barbara
Boriss McCall
05-06-2013, 05:59 PM
HI Kathy,
just checking in to see how things are going today. I hope you & Buddy are both having a good day.
hugs
molly muffin
05-06-2013, 06:51 PM
Checking in on you and Buddy Boy. How did it go today? I'm sure you were a mess of nerve. So, sounds like a good time to go home, cuddle with Buddy a bit and have a relaxing swim. Yep, that is definitely on the to do list. :) Hope that everything is good there and Buddy is okay.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin
Budsters Mom
05-06-2013, 11:04 PM
We are hanging in there. Thanks for all the love!:)
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Trish
05-07-2013, 07:05 AM
Pleased to hear you are hanging in there! Hope your working day speeds by with no problems at home, I am sure we would all rather be at home when they are under the weather but unfortunately something has to pay the bills, so off to work we go :(. xx
Mel-Tia
05-07-2013, 02:59 PM
Thinking of you and Buddy
Did you get any reply to your mail? Hope all is ok today and you are having a good day
Hugs
Mel
Xxx
Budsters Mom
05-07-2013, 03:28 PM
Hi Mel,
So sweet of you to check on us. :) No response from my email yet, but hopefully soon. Buddy had one tremor yesterday, starting around 4:00PM. It started and stopped for about 15 minutes. He could have had some while I was at work. I just don't know. It is hard when I can't be there. :( He was acting normally when I got home.:) It rained yesterday, so no lizard hunting! Buddy was not happy about that!:D The rainy weather did help Buddy's allergies. He needed less Benadryl, so he was much more alert. That was nice!:)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Squirt's Mom
05-07-2013, 03:41 PM
Is Buddy getting a liquid Benedryl?
Budsters Mom
05-07-2013, 04:28 PM
Leslie,
I tried changing Buddy's antihistamine to Chlor-timeton (sp) . It was from the list you gave me. It upset his stomach the first time I tried it, so I went back to Benadryl. Not always effective and causes drowsiness, but better than nothing. Now with the tremors, I'm afraid to make any changes. Buddy is on Benadryl tablets 25 mg. - he take half a tablet, usually twice per day. Can be taken up to 3 times per day, every 8 hours. Buddy weighs 16 pounds, so 12 1/2 mg. if fine.
He can have up to 16 mg. - 1 mg. per pound. Yesterday with the rain, Buddy only needed one dose.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Squirt's Mom
05-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Ok...some of the liquid meds like Benedryl have Xylitol as a sweetener which is toxic to dogs. One of the side effects is tremors so I was just curious if this might have some bearing. Just wool gathering. ;)
Budsters Mom
05-07-2013, 04:46 PM
Thanks Leslie for watching out for us!:)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Just stopping by to check on you and Buddy.
(((((hugs)))))
Fellasmom
05-07-2013, 11:05 PM
Hi
Just checking in to say hello and hope Buddy is having a good day and back to his lizard hunting soon!:)
Budsters Mom
05-07-2013, 11:09 PM
Thank you for checking on us Addy,:)
I, like you, have had very little me time lately. I get your bathtub story;). I've been going to work and then straight home, getting little else done. I worry about Buddy constantly while at work. Today was day two of state testing. I have another eight days to go!:eek: On the upside, Buddy has been lively, alert and downright spunky, Since I got home. His Cushing's symptoms have all faded away,except for his rear leg weakness, which is better. He hasn't had any tremors that I am aware of today. :D. So far,so good, for today.:)
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-07-2013, 11:26 PM
I only have a minute but what Leslie said really has me wondering if Buddy is not having a reaction to something . It would be something other than the vetoryl. Do you know how long he has been doing this and is there anything that can be ruled out? Allergic reactions can cause the tremors in the head especially.
Hang in there.
Big Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin
Budsters Mom
05-08-2013, 12:01 AM
The tremors started when he got so sick before I found out that he had Cushings. As he recovered, they went away. They returned about 2 months later, last Friday. Buddy is on a limited ingredient diet designed for dogs with allergies. He has been on that for a few years. His "cookies" are kibble from his basic formula. There are no exceptions! Buddy drinks filtered water. We have a reverse osmosis drinking water system. I am not cleaning with anything new. I steam clean or use vinegar. There are no pesticides ever used in the backyard. I bathe him using hypoallergenic pet products. Buddy takes Benadryl, and he was taking that before. Trilostane and Pepcid have been added since then. I vacuum his sleeping areas every day sometimes more than once a day. His bedding from his little nest beds are washed every couple of days. I use perfume free/dye free/hypoallergenic, laundry detergent.
I don't burn candles, spray perfume, or other aerosols in the house. I like candles and have lots if them, but don't burn them because of Buddy's allergies. Yes, Buddy Has so many allergies, I can't even begin to pinpoint them all! Yes, his head tremors could be tied to allergies. All I know, is the panic that I see in his eyes when they occur. He is helpless, frightened and so vulnerable. It breaks my heart.
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
molly muffin
05-08-2013, 09:13 AM
Well fudge. That doesn't sound likely then. :( An allergy is at least a known element that we can try to control. Okay, putting the thinking cap back on.
It's just not acceptable that we can't figure out the cause and get them stopped. LOL Yep, I'm full of optimism.
Hang in there mom!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Mel-Tia
05-08-2013, 03:51 PM
We could all sleep in buddy's bed :D
You are a great mom to him, any news today on the email front?
Big hug
Mel
Cccx
Budsters Mom
05-08-2013, 07:29 PM
Thanks for checking on us Mel. No email response as of yet:(
Drum roll please:D...... No tremors when I was home yesterday and none so far today since I've been home from work!!! Knock on wood!!:D Buddy has been acting happy, energetic, and adorable as ever. :D Cushing symptoms are still under control. YAY!!
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Fellasmom
05-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Hi Kathy
So happy to hear no tremors for Buddy today!This may not be of much help but thought I would pass it on to you.I came across a blog about head tremors,most of the owners who wrote in had bulldogs and boxers.Most of them visited ED,MRI,neuro consults,and no real cause was found and were diagnosed with idiopathic head tremors.They too were frightened and at their wits end.A few wrote in to say that a "licking reflex"(offering peanut butter or honey)broke the tremor,a good few said that low calcium can cause tremors and they added yogurt to diet and saw decrease in frequency of tremors.They almost all noted that the tremors occurred when dog was most relaxed(just waking up in am or getting ready to sleep)though a few said they occured with loud noises or stress.Some tried distraction with toys,etc which worked for some of the dogs.
With all of Buddy's allergies,none of these may work but fig I would pass it on.Hope Buddy and mom have a peaceful night!!
Budsters Mom
05-08-2013, 09:55 PM
Hi Patty,:)
Thank you so much for the wonderful suggestions. I have to be careful with any kind of food distractions due to allergies, but there are some great ideas to try. I always learn so much More from others who have actually been there, versus experts giving theory only. Any and all suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated!:) I love it when other family members pop in to offer help and suggestions.:)
Love and hugs to you and Gracie,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Fellasmom
05-08-2013, 10:16 PM
Kathy
I know-so many vets never think "outside the box" or immediately discard an idea or theory you may have because they haven't "seen" it or it isn't "proven".They drive me crazy sometimes.Truly the best advice I have ever recieved has been from other dog owners.
Hope your baby sleeps well tonight.
Patty
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