Buddy, The Mighty Lizard Hunter - Suspected Pituitary Macro Tumor

[jmac]

Kathy, I cried too! That is such a nice poem!

Julie & Hannah

[Trixie]

Oh Kathy,
I am so late getting in on everything. Haven't been on the computer all day until now. :( I'm just so sorry for what you're going thru. I know how those sleepless nights feel when you just keep checking up on your pup and are unable to truly rest. It can feel lonely in the wee hours watching every breath.
I'm sure you haven't been a downer to anyone at all!! I know everyone who posts on this board "gets it". No one here would ever think "it's just a dog" NO WAY...so your feelings are safe with us.
I hope when you want to post that you will! Anything...good and bad, because that's why we are all here.
awww..I loved your poem too. Hoping you will be able to get a little shut eye tonight in preparation for the Sea World trip, and when it's over you can start your weekend which I am sure you desperately need!
Positive thoughts and hugs coming your way! :)
Barbara

[Trish]

Awwww that poem is so sweet Kathy! Love it! Buddy must be loving all this attention with him Mom up all hours! Have fun on the trip tomorrow, maybe it will tire you out so you crash and have a decent sleep when you get home then will be ready to face the weekend with some fun for you and your boy.

Thinking of you and the Budster lots xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

I'm off the Sea World this morning with many very excited kidlets :D:rolleyes:Buddy had a quiet night with no further spells. He is spunky and active this morning. Right now he is telling to put my IPad down and get his breakfast! There are priorities you know!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

You bet there are priorities!! LOL Buddy won't let you forget that at all!
Have fun at Sea World. Would love to be going there right now

hugs,
Sharlene and molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Disclaimer………For those of you who are waiting for the gory details from Buddy's appointment, I have assimilated them enough to talk about them now. For the rest of you, please skip this post. Don't say I didn't warn you! On March 11th, I took Buddy to the vet specialty hospital for a neuro- consultation. He was seen by a neurosurgeon and two neurologists. The appointment took about an hour and a half and they tested everything. They even took him outside to see him walk and conducted more tests outside. Buddy was showing neuro symptoms at that time and needed a clearance in order for his regular vet to do Cushing's testing. This is the third hospital that he had been sent to. All of them were seeing Cushings. He had already had an ultrasound at the emergency hospital a week or so before. At the time of his appointment he was wobbly on his legs, had difficulty standing on tile floor, and was visibly weak. Both of his back legs showed reduced motor control, one side tested far worse than the other. His front legs tested fine at that point. It showed an obvious neuro-pathway disruption (their words). There were a few possible causes at that point. Some of the weakness in his hind legs could be due to Cushings muscle wasting, but that didn't explain the neuro pathway disruption. Possible causes were a disk problem in his back - tested with Spinal Rads, then ruled out. A stroke was another possible cause since one side of Buddy's body was more affected than the other (at that time). The last possible cause would be brain tumor or Macro-tumor (as Cushings was already suspected). They recommended a $3500 MRI. If he had a or tumor or a stroke, it would probably show on the MRI. The other option was to test for Cushings, start treatment if found and wait for more neuro symptoms to appear. I had already spent more than $2000 the previous week on vet bills and did not have an additional $3500 for an MRI. I chose the second option and Cushing's testing was started the next day. The theory being that once Cushing's cortisol level was controlled then they would better be able to determine the cause of the neuro symptoms. If it was a stroke the neuro symptoms would remain constant and unchanged. If there was a tumor, reducing the cortisol would more likely worsen the symptoms as high cortisol tends to control or slow down the growth of Tumors. This brings us up to Tuesday's appointment. Many of the same neuro tests were repeated by Buddy's regular doctor. His neuro symptoms had worsened significantly. He failed many of the tests that he passed 2 1/2 months earlier. All four legs now showed obvious loss of motor control. His front legs often buckle now when he walks or runs. They were not affected at the time of his initial consultation. Head tremors videos (taken by me) also showed activity in the head area, indicating tumor activity. The neurosurgeon said the diagnosis would become clear within the next few months. It looks like she was right. All indications point to a brain or macro tumor putting pressure on the brain. My vet was going to review all of Buddy's tests since puppyhood and contact the neurosurgeon to fill her in, so we can determine a course of action and verify that she concurs with his findings. I am waiting to hear back. I have tried to explain what I know clearly. I hope that your able to figure it all out.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy-(sigh) wow...you and Buddy have been through a lot since March. It's amazing how spunky Buddy is after all that has gone on.
I'm glad he was feeling good this morning. I hope you are able to get some rest tonight, you must be really tired between the day at Sea World with the kids and all this on your mind.
Glad your weekend is here and I hope it's a good one for you and the Budster. Hopefully you will get more answers once you hear back from the neuro vet. I'm so glad you have your trusted vet back in charge.
Big hugs,
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
Thank you for your post of support.:) Sea world was beautiful today. It was 78°, and sunny with a cool breeze. The kids were mischievously wild, as expected.:D. I always get the boys because they are more rambunctious.;) We had a wonderful time. My secret is to eat as much sugar as them, so I'm able to keep up with them! LOL:D This is my 21st year and I still love what I do. I am truly blessed. :p. Where are Trixie's ACTH numbers? She tested on Tuesday!!!

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--that's a new photo of Buddy isn't it?? He looks so cute!! Is he Robin Hood? Peter Pan? heehee he is so adorable in his outfits!! I just posted a long winded post on my thread re the acth test. All is fine.
So glad you had a good day at Sea World. Sounds like your kids are lucky to have you! I like the sugar consumption technique..sounds like a good plan!! :D
21 years is amazing...great to love what you do..that's why you're so good at it I'm sure!!
Have a great weekend. :) Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

The littlest dinosaur, of course! He wouldn't wear the head!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

haha...the little dinosaur! He's probably trying to intimidate the lizards as a giant reptile!! :D I love it!!
Barbara ;)

[Simba's Mom]

What a cutie that Buddy is, I thought it was a pickle costume :)

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Kathy

I thought he was a lizard :D

How are you both today?

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I am hoping and praying against all odds that Buddy does not have a tumor. You two have certainly been through enough. I just cannot get enough of Buddy's escapades and costumes, he is soooo cute ! I am glad you enjoyed the day at SeaWorld and got this off of your mind for a while. I think Buddy is dressing up so he can go incognito outside and get a surprise jump on those lizards! Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy,
Well, that is a fine state of affairs. One options that they might suggest is to stop the vetoryl. I don't know of course, but it might be that the higher cortisol will be better for Buddy than the vetoryl. I'm sure that your vet is going to go over all this with you once he talks to the neuro staff. Hang in there kiddo. We'll be right here with you, whatever may come.
Well and isn't that a fine outfit. Mel - A Lizard!!! hahahaha That Buddy does live dangerously considering his escapades in the backyard Lizard Hunting. ROFL
Glad you had a great time with the kids at Sea World. Sugar, now that is an option. I hear the burn out is YIKES at the end of the day though.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I was kidding about the sugar on the field trip guys!!!!!!!!!!;) I actually don't eat sugar because it triggers my migraines. So now you have it!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Yes Sharlene, I know the decision that I'm going to have to make. It will be one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make in my lifetime. It all comes down to quality of life, what is best for Buddy. If it were up to me, I would pop a pack of energizer batteries in him and keep him going and going and going, like the energizer bunny on the commercials. Buddy was miserable before I started Trilostane. He would lie in his bed all day, only leaving to go potty. Even then, he had to be coaxed out. He didn't hunt, he didn't play, he didn't interact much, he was just there. :(Trilostane gave him his life back. If I stop it, he will quickly revert back to the way it was before his cortisol was controlled. That is no way to live, if there is another option. Keeping him on the Trilostane will most likely shorten his life the way the neuro symptoms are progressing, because it will leave the tumor left unchecked. His legs will most likely give out on him much more quickly and permanently, leaving him unable to stand or even get up. Trilostane could slow down the tumor growth, keeping him with me longer, at the expense of the his quality of life. So it comes down to longer or better. That is a crappy choice to have to make!!!:(

Hugs,
Kathy

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Tipper and I are saying a super, duper prayer for you and Buddy. I know what you are facing, and it will be a very tuff decision. You are in between a rock and a hard place. My heart goes out to you. None of us should ever have to make that decision. This Cushings really stinks! You are a wonderful mom to Buddy and I know you will choose what is right for him. You put a lot of thought into his care. May God give Buddy a miracle healing. God Bless You Both
Patti

[labblab]

Dear Kathy,

Thanks so much for being willing to explain all the neuro observations and diagnostics that have been done so far. I am guessing it was not very easy to write. :o

But everything that has been said makes perfect sense to me, and so I realize that you are now in the midst of a painful guessing game as to how Buddy's journey will unfold.

For what it's worth, I do understand why you may opt to continue the Vetoryl. We were faced with exactly the same decision with Barkis when we suspected an enlarging macrotumor. We did stop his trilostane entirely for a very short time, but his debilitating Cushing's symptoms quickly rebounded. So we tried to pick sort of a compromise and restarted him at a lower dose for his remaining time with us.

As crazy as it sounds, we have also seen some specialists prescribe BOTH trilostane and prednisone for dogs afflicted with problematic tumors. Although I have never had the rationale explained with certainty, I do believe it is with this thought in mind. A steroid can indeed be helpful in terms of reducing swelling and inflammation caused by the tumor, but you'd like it to be administered in a controlled fashion. So by continuing with the trilostane, the natural cortisol remains in check at the same time that a very specific dose of prednisone is administered. In this way, the dog isn't suffering from the excessively high, uncontrolled cortisol of Cushing's but is instead receiving a predictable steroid dose. So if, by chance, your neurosurgeon makes a suggestion like this -- it may not be as nutty as it initially sounds.

Anyway, bottom line, my heart goes out to you because I will always remember how painful it was for us when Barkis' neuro deficits became ever more obvious. But our family here helped save me then, and our family here will save you now, Kathy. We will be walking beside you every step of the way. And I know you will make the choices that will keep Buddy as comfortable as possible for as long as you can.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

That is a very good thought Marianne about the trilostane and prednisone. Didn't someoen on here do that before, or did I read it. I can't remember at this point.
Other thing would to do a mild decrease of the vetoryl so as to allow it to come up a bit but not so much as to cause the symptoms to come back. So definitely things to think about.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Ladies,
I am not strong enough to do this!:( I am having a very hard functioning as it is. Once I go forward with this decision, I will have to go though the torture of watching Buddy deteriorate quickly before my eyes. This is going to rip my heart to shreds. I know that some of you have done it and survived, but I'm not as strong as you and Buddy is all that I have. Without him, I have no reason to go on. There will be nothing left. Signing off.....

Hugs,
Kathy

[labblab]

Oh sweet Kathy, you are pushed to the max right now, with no sleep and so much to shoulder. But please know this one thing: being here is not about being strong all by yourself. It is about leaning on others for support when we are too scared or weak to go on by ourselves. You absolutely need to conserve your strength for Buddy and yourself right now. So do take as much of a break from posting as you need to. But even though you may not be exchanging words with us, we are still beaming you comfort from across the miles, Kathy. And we are carrying you along with us in our hearts. You and Buddy are not alone, and never will be.

Sending hugs and hugs and more hugs.

[Trixie]

Kathy,
This is a terrible situation for you and I don't think anyone here would expect to feel any differently, it makes me cry just thinking about what you're going through...but you are not doing anything today. Today things are okay and you don't have to project what will happen tomorrow or one week from now....one day at a time. I know it is easier said than done but you don't have to decide anything right here and now. If and when you have to go forward with a decision the right thing will be evident at the right time and that is not now. Nothing about what you're dealing with easy, like you said it's the hardest thing ever but don't get ahead of yourself, you're not doing anything today.
I know you are feeling very much alone but you're not. We are all here for you and for Buddy.
No one can predict what will happen so go day by day and try not to weigh yourself down with these terrible thoughts. Your heart is heavy right now but you will get through.
Sending you a big hug... Barbara

[molly muffin]

Kathy, I'm so sorry. :( I know I can only send you virtual hugs, but they are full of heart felt sentiment of caring for you and Buddy. This sucks.

HUGS
Sharlene

[addy]

We aren't going anywhere. We will always be here to lend an ear, send you encouragement, give you hugs, just know you dont have to be alone ever. Do what is best for you and for Buddy but we will always, always be here for you both, no matter what.

Choices for others are hard. I had to make some hard choices for my elderly mother. Do I give her the best quality of life now, knowing that later on, there will be no money left and harder choices will come or do I allow her to reside in a safe place where she can always stay but I know her life will not be the same quality and that she will go down hill? Everyone has a different way of looking at things. There is no right or wrong answer, it is what is best for you and Buddy.

I chose to give Mom a good quality of life now and deal with the hard choice if and when it comes. My brother did not agree. I have never looked back or regretted my decision nor do I think I ever will. For me quality of life trumps quantity if I have to chose. Doesnt mean I'm right and others are wrong.

You look at boths sides and follow your heart.

[Budsters Mom]

Addy,
Yes, I realize that a lot of you have to make hard decisions also, and have your share of problems. I have both my elderly parents living with me and I know how trying that can be at times. I also believe that the quality of life is more important than the quantity. It doesn't make it any easier though. Thanks for being there.:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trish]

Well this sucks the kumara! (NZ saying but very apt here :)) I am so sorry to read all of this Kathy. If this indeed is what is going on then I sincerely hope any progression is at a snail's pace and you have a lot of time left with the Budster until you have to make any of those awful decisions.

I wish I knew the answer on how to enjoy the times we have left with our super pups without all the worry about the future, I admire those that can live in the day. Even when my doggy is good I seem to have an evil niggle lurking at the back of my mind about what is too come, I can even project myself into the time when I do have to make myself make those awful decisions and get all sad and panicky. Honestly, the little white vans should be lined up outside my house!! When I get like that I really do have give myself a swift mental uppercut and say STOP THAT.. he is still here!!!!!!!!!!! There is time for feeling this sadness when it is time, but not now.. I need to enjoy him and keep making happy memories... make him feel safe and loved and not show him his Mum is a potential mental health patient!! I don't know really and I am not saying you do any of that, but I do :rolleyes:, I am rabbiting on here but anticipatory grief is such an insidious monster so if anyone has any good tips to keep it at bay I would be most appreciative, I think a lot of us would :)

But I do know that coming on here and rationalising it all out and getting input from the wise angels that have often been there, done that is invaluable to me. So you do what is right for you and thank the lord we are all different in how we handle things and there is no wrong or right way. NEVER feel bad for posting anything you think is going to be too sad, this is the real world here Kathy we are not here because we have healthy dogs!! We celebrate the good and commiserate with the not so good but we are all big girls and boys and can handle it. We will be marching by your side through thick and thin!!!

Kathy, I hope your day goes well today with your wee man, I think he looks great as a dinosaur (they are just big lizards aren't they!!) very fitting costume for our mighty lizard hunter!! Oh gawd, it is a long post isn't it and I have been trying so hard to cut them down :eek::rolleyes::D:rolleyes::eek:

Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[addy]

sweetie, it is damn hard and the rest of us are not really brave at all, we are usually scared half to death in constant fear of what tomorrow will bring for our Cush pups.

my point to my story is that everyone will look at things differently but the right answer is in your heart where the love flows freely for your Buddy and he knows that.

Anticipatory grief can drive us crazy, Trish is so right. Kathy, you have to take care of you to keep it at bay. If you have to take some sleep aid to sleep then start doing it, because I am going to hound you about it and I dont care if you get mad at me. ;) We care about you and Buddy.

Dang, will have Kim come on every night and write a lullaby for you if we have to- well, maybe I should not volunteer Kim for every night, we can take turns.

Put it in the drawer now for the rest of the weekend. Lock it and dont open it up.

(((((((((((BIG HUGS))))))))))))))))

[Budsters Mom]

Trish,
The time has come for me to make that decision. I can't continue to live in not today land, or I'll do it tomorrow. Buddy neuro function has deteriorated considerably in the last couple of months. Tests have proven that. The decision has to come now as to whether I continue to Trilostane or stop it. Letting the cortisol rise could slow the tumor significantly and keep him on his feet longer. Naomi has been trying that with Frasier. It will most likely cause Buddy's Cushing symptoms to return. His stomach was very upset when he started Trilostane. It took more than a week to settle it. His allergies went haywire when his cortisol dropped. I have finally gotten a handle on that. If I stop the trilo, we will be back where we started and that was not a comfortable place for Buddy. So I do need to make that decision now. Reducing, not stopping the trilo is another option. Yes Trish, I am familiar with those white vans. They have been circling my block for the past several days.:eek:;)

Addy,
I expect no less from you!;) I have already figured out that you are going to continue to nag me to sleep and I am trying. I did manage to nap for about an hour this afternoon when I knew Buddy was stable. Mel had just sent me a few PM's and had worked her magic. ;):)Sleep deprivation is taking a toll on me. I hurt everywhere and have no energy. My brain is also mush and I'm over emotional. I know all of these things already. Yes, Kim's lullaby was adorably sweet. I will admit that. :) I am not a pill popper. That is so not my thing.

Thank you Angels,
Kathy

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Kathy,
Like many others, my heart hurts for you and Buddy. Just follow your heart, and know you will do what is in the best interest of Buddy. It looks like you still have a plan of things to try which still gives hope.
I know you will love on him while you can.

[Simba's Mom]

Oh Kathy, my heart hurts for you and your little Buddy....Before Simba I had a dog named Belle, she was beautiful, the best dog ever but she was born with a bad leg, that couldn't be fixed so after seeing many vets and trying all these different things one night she told me she wanted to go home, so I let her go...I was at peace with my decision but did a terrible thing, I gave her to someone I knew at the vet and said plz take care of this, cuz I couldn't do it...it still makes me sick that I didn't at least hold her while she went, but I needed to remember her alive, so it's all I could do...Before she died I got Simba, he helped me through the grief, and Belle loved him like she gave birth too him or something, kinda weird I know but Belle was fixed so she never got to be Mom, so having Sim made Belle happy...her last days were spent happy and content, so I know when I have to make the decision, that Belle will be waiting for her puppy Simba. This cushings has taken alot away from Simba and me, but it also has brought us closer, and has given me strength I never knew I had....I know when it's Simba's time to go I will feed him the most expensive steak I can find, take him for a long ride with the windows down, and hopefully find some dog park so he can sniff all the poo he wants and when thats done and he is tired I will sit outside or in the car and let him sleep on my lap, and then hand over just a paw to the vet, thats all she will get until he goes on to meet Belle......( my plan anyways ) but until then it's one day at a time....
You can do this too, we all can, and we are all in this together, there is strength in numbers, so hold our hands, we are here for you....sending hugs and prayers.....

[Mel-Tia]

Just wanted you to know i am thinking of you. Hope you are sleeping now and that when you wake up it isn't as humid so the wee man can get back to catching lizards

Sending more hugs.

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Harley PoMMom]

Kathy, you and Buddy are in my thoughts and prayers too. Sending huge, loving, and soothing hugs, Lori

[Budsters Mom]

Mel,
We don't get much humidity here. Most of out heat is dry heat. It was too warm for Buddy to hunt today, but no complaints. The weather here is just about perfect year round. ;) There will be other days to hunt. Even the lizards deserve a day of rest occasionally.:D
You guys are all too good to be true! Thanks for all of your love and support. :)

Hugs,
Kathy

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Just wondering if you had given any thought to the prednisone and still giving some Trilo? That is a possibility, although it is easy for us to say. I just thought this would control the tumor growth, and still give him some relief from the Cushings symptoms. I may be facing some real difficulties also when the Dr. gets back to me after seeing Tipper's video. It is hard for me to believe I had a strong , muscular, beautiful girl, that I took care of so well, and this happened to her. I see some people that tie their dogs out on a chain and leave them there. I have spent 11 1/2 years giving exceptional care to Tipper and this comes along. Go figure! It just seems so unfair, but life is like that. I know what you mean about Buddy being you reason to live. That is Tipper and I. I have no family so she is my family. I cannot imagine walking in your shoes. All of the wonderful people on here are right beside you though. Your sweet Buddy is a darling. It will be good for you to have a break away from school, so you can have special time with Buddy. I am praying every day for you both, and Tipper is praying for Buddy to forge on. God Bless you both
Patti

[Trish]

Yes Trish, I am familiar with those white vans. They have been circling my block for the past several days.:eek:;)

Well they better send a big one as we all coming with you!! :eek::D:eek: Have a good day sweet, glad to hear you had a little nap. xxxxxxx

[Fellasmom]

Kathy
I am just getting caught up now as I was on a week long field trip on the white van!:eek:.I am so sorry that you are going through this tough decision with Buddy.I"m praying that maybe the vet will come up with some other options that maybe you hadn't considered.I hope that Buddy is having a good day.I know too well the feeling of not wanting to go on and feeling our little furbabies are all we have.I think that's why I've always had two.When I lose one,another one still needs me.

You have been spreading your sunshine and have been an enormous support to so many others here,myself included.I too am surrounded by family members who think "its just a dog" and that does occasionaly compound my grief.Just as Buddy led you here,I am eternally grateful that Fella led me here as I don't know what I would have done without all the angels!I hope you feel our love from across the miles and know that we are all praying for you and your boy.Big hugs to you and Buddy and I hope is up to lizard catching today.:).
Patty

[molly muffin]

Just popping in to let you know, am thinking of you and Buddy this morning. Hope you got some rest. It's tough making decisions and getting the mind working on just adrenalin. I too hope that a balance can be found to allow Buddy to go forward with a good quality life and you too.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks guys,
Buddy is doing fine this today. He is acting a little lazy, but then so am I.;) No head tremors for 8 days now. Their pattern seems to be about every nine or 10 days. Buddy has only had that one bout of reactive hypoglycemia where he all of a sudden started walking like he was drunk and had difficulty staying up on his feet. He has since been eating smaller amounts more often per doctor's orders. It is cooler today. A perfect day for a lizard hunt!:D

I am feeling much better this morning. The white vans have turned on to the next block, so there must be a problem over there!:D Yes, I got some sleep last night, about 4 hours. I finally cried myself out, so I'm ready to pick up the pieces and move on. I have also pretty much made up my mind as far as what I think would be best for Buddy. I am waiting to hear what the doctors come up with. I am leaning toward keeping him on the Trilo and adding prednisone. The trilo remaining to control his Cushings symptoms, while the prednisone goes to work on the tumor. I did a lot of reading and that's a pretty new concept, so I don't know if the docs will go for it. I am better now that I have have a viable plan in my mind. Enough crying, panic, and insanity. It is time to more forth.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Work countdown.........
13 Work Days til Summer Break!:D

[Mel-Tia]

My IMS did mention using pred and vetoryl together but Tia had cc so decided against it. Am sure if they are suggesting that as a course of action over here that it should be an option for you.

One day at a time, good news he hasn't had any more head tremors, long may that last.

Woo hoo for summer break makes me jealous :D

Hope some lizards come out to play today but that none end up in the graveyard :D

Big hug to you and kisses to the wee hunter

Mel
Xxxxxx

[labblab]

Kathy or Mel, have you found any published info re: the trilo and predisone combo? I'd love to actually read something something official. I mentioned it because I remembered it being suggested in the past (especially in conjunction with lymphoma treatment for one of our Cushpups here). But as I say, I've never read the formal rationale or dosing suggestions and would love to find something about it.

I'm so glad Buddy is ready to launch back into the hunt! :)

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

Marianne,
I have been reading many articles trying to make sense of it all. Most of them were being read in the middle the night when I couldn't sleep and my brain power was diminished. I did find the Trilo and Predisone combination and the theory behind it discussed in a couple of places. Most of the articles either recommended no treatment, or laser treatment. Surgery is not an option at this time. Laser treatment was not recommended if the dog was already showing neuro signs, as they probably would not live long enough to finish treatment. Macro-tumors are aggressive. As for the Trilostane and Prednisone combination, it has been tried as a last ditch effort to slow down the tumor's growth. I don't remember reading about dosages. I'm sorry that I don't have links for you to read. I should have thought to bookmark those pages. If I find anything as I continue to read, I will bookmark them for you. Nothing read was encouraging. It is very odd that I can discuss this now from a research point of view and not get emotional. The research had helped me see the bigger picture and information is power.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Mel-Tia]

I was just looking as I never kept any info. Can't find anything about combined treatment. Can find bits about pred treatment on its own. Will keep looking.

I did stumble across this

http://dogaware.com/articles/newscushingssurgery.html

I know the link mentions surgery but if you scroll right to the bottom it says they are trailing a new oral drug to shrink the tumour. Might be worth asking a bit more about this

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[Simba's Mom]

So glad to hear that Buddy is doing a little better today, and you too:)

[labblab]

Kathy, that's perfectly OK that you didn't bookmark anything. This is something that I've wanted to research, myself, for a while. So I'll take a look when I have some free time.

Another thought just struck me, though. I don't know whether you are near L.A., but you might want to consider arranging a consultation with Dr. David Bruyette at the West L.A. VCA Hospital. He is a nationally-known Cushing's expert, and has pioneered experimental canine pituitary surgery in conjunction with UCLA surgeons at Cedars Sinai. In fact, one of our very own members here was the first dog to have successful surgery performed under Dr. Bruyette's oversight in order to debulk a debilitating macrotumor. Even if surgery is not an option for you and Buddy, I'm willing to bet that Dr. Bruyette is extremely knowledgeable re: any other cutting edge macrotumor treatment options available in southern California. I'd think his feedback re: medication manipulation would also be very valuable.

Just a thought, but maybe once school is out and you have more freedom of time, you might wish to schedule an appointment with Dr. Bruyette. As far as we know, he maintains a regular clinical practice. And even if you can't arrange to see him personally, perhaps he'd be willing to consult with your vet via phone or email.

Marianne

[Mel-Tia]

I think he is the one trailing the drug I just linked too :)

[labblab]

Good job, Mel!!! And yes, indeed, that is Dr. Bruyette and "our" own beloved Lucy who is pictured! :) :) :)

I'll try to come back later and post a direct link to her thread. Dr. Bruyette is actually a registered member here and added a few informational replies a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, he has not been posting recently.

[Budsters Mom]

Marianne,
I live San Diego County. LA is about a three hour drive in very heavy traffic. I could drive up the night before and spend the night somewhere nearby, then drive home after the appointment, when the traffic is lighter. I don't know if Dr. Bruyette would see Buddy without getting an MRI first and that's $3500 at the Specialty Hospital. I'll run this by our vet after he has conferred with the neurosurgeon. Maybe I can get my vet to contact Dr. Bruyette. If he can arrange an appointment for a consultation, I will find a way to make it happen. There is no way that I could afford the surgery though. Thanks.

Kathy

[labblab]

I definitely understand about the cost of the surgery. The combined costs of an MRI and radiation were daunting to us, and were a big factor as to why we didn't press for further diagnostics for Barkis.

If nothing else, though, I'm thinking it might be helpful for one of your vets to ask Dr. B about the trilo/predisone question. I'd be curious as to his feedback on that one.

[molly muffin]

Vicki (Scoops mom) is in email contact with Dr. B and he has answered her questions and continues to do so.
So that is an option. I read a good review of radiation therapy results too. Doccy is doing the trial at University of Florida right?
I think having a plan is one of those things that really helps. Until you come up with something, anything to feel like you can move forward. Well, it drives me nuts anyway. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

Hey, I am so much better today!:) I am able to discuss this stuff without falling apart!!!!:). I absolutely know that Buddy's prognosis is bleak, but making him comfortable for the duration is what is important. Right now Buddy is yapping his brains out because a Lizard just scurried under the fence and he can't get to it! I am sitting out in the backyard with my IPad watching this drama unfold. I can't help but smile!:D My little, wobbly, Cush dog, who face plants regularly, is always the hunter!:D He is not giving up and isn't crying about it, so I shouldn't either. ;)

Hey Marianne,
How about flying out to San Diego and riding with Buddy and I to LA to see Dr. B? You'd know all the right questions to ask!:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Sharlene,
Could you get Dr. B's email address from Scoops's mom for me? That would be great if you could. I would like to ask him about the Trilo and prednisone combo for drug treatment for a Macro.

Thanks,
Hugs,
Kathy

[labblab]

Hey Kathy, Vicki may have an additional email addy for Dr. B, but here's a link with his bio and an email contact.

http://m.vcahospitals.com/west-los-angeles/our-team/veterinarians/david-bruyette/28374

(And I would love, love to head out your way :o :). I lived in West Hollywood for a couple of years during the '70s, but never made it down to San Diego although I always wanted to...)

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks Marianne,
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

I think you are doing great Kathy!! :) You and Buddy both.

I think I'd be the same as you if this were molly we were talking about. In fact I'm sure of it. Just knowing how much I cried at the diagnosis of cushings is a pretty good sign of that.

I did find this one David.Bruyette@VCAHospitals.com
I'll see if that is what Vicki is using

Hugs,
Sharlene

[molly muffin]

LOL Marianne were typing at the same time. I think it is the one Vicki is using, but I've asked her just to be sure.

Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks Sharlene,
I have never been one to stay down for long. I am too ornery for that!:D Once I get beyond the processing stage of a problem, I am usually okay. It's the initial devastation that is a killer. :eek: :eek::eek:I'm sure that I will be visiting that place of insanity again, when it comes to the time that I have to let Buddy go. In the meantime, we continue to plow on! Thanks for all of the help and support angels.:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[scoora]

Kathy, Check your visitor messages. I sent you info about Dr. B

[Budsters Mom]

Thank you so much Vicki :) I posted a message on your thread, so you would be sure to get it.
Hugs to you and belly rub for Your precious fur baby,

Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Aw Buddy you are so cute and always the hunter, I still think there should've a book series called "The adventures of Buddy the Lizard hunter" take care Kathy, glad you can relax today!

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I have emailed back and forth with Dr. B. I am under the understanding this method does not give them much longer, and is really a tuff surgery, as it is brain surgery.I emailed him when my Tipper was first diagnosed and I was scared to death of this disease. I am glad that you decided to give Buddy the Vetoryl and prednisone. That is what my choice would have been also if it were Tipper. I think you are making well informed smart choices. I also think you are a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for. To add to Letti's comment I think Buddy should do a reality t.v. series, then come out with the book. That way when he gets better, he could go on a book tour, and take his mom. God Bless You Both. Special prayers are going out for Buddy.
Patti

[scoora]

Maybe that's why Dr. B said he didn't think surgery would be an option for Scoop. With all his problems and if the surgery is tough, it might be too hard for Scoop.

Kathy, I sure hope Dr. B can help Buddy. Prayers and best wishes to you both.

[Budsters Mom]

Good morning angels,:)
I have been thinking about Trilostane dosing. In the case of a suspected macro, I would think that once a day trilo dosing would be better than twice. Trilo is supposedly out of their system within 12 hours. That would give the cortisol time to rise to some degree before the next dosage 24 hours later. That could help the growth of the macro a minute amount. Anything being better than nothing. I will be emailing Dr. B soon to ask him about adding Prednisone to Trilostane. I also want to ask him about Buddy's head tremors and a few other things. Poor man. I am bursting with questions!:confused: Now that I've moved from devastation mode, there is no stopping me! I am a mother on a mission, so watch out!!:D

Patti - Buddy's not likely to get better, so we move on to what's next. Unless Mel works her magic of course.;) She has a direct line to Mother Nature herself!:) I have the number too, but always end up as the 50th call waiting. I wait longer than trying to talk to a live person at the DMV. LOL!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

I have prepared a rather lengthy email for Dr. B. Below are the questions that I am asking.
My questions...
I would like to know if head tremors are a macro-tumor symptom

What is the best drug protocol available when surgery is not an option?

What is your take on continuing Trilostane while adding Prednisone? The trilo would hopefully keep the Cushing symptoms under control while the Prednisone attacks the tumor, hopefully slowing down it's growth. Have you heard of this combination? Is it viable and what are the dosages?

I'll let you know if/when I hear from him.
Hugs,
Kathy

[frijole]

I would come right out and say "here is the testing I have had done and the docs I have seen (specialists)" and they believe it is a macro tumor. I cannot afford a $3500 MRI. Is there any other way I can be 100% sure it is a macro? What are the key signs of a macro and how can I tell if it is progressing?

Heck get as much free advice from this expert as you can. Make sure you let him know you are a school teacher, single and that Buddy is your world. Don't laugh but he does have the ability to do procedures for free. :o:D:o

Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Thank you Kim. I added those things to my email. ;):). I will send it after I get home from work. I would feel more comfortable sending it from through my home wi-fi. By the way, I am sleeping somewhat better. :)

Hugs,
Kathy

[frijole]

Great news. You keep on sleeping so you are awake and better able to cuddle that cute dog of yours! :D

[labblab]

Kathy, I think it's great that you are emailing Dr. B.

FWIW, though, I don't think there is any way to know for certain that it is a macrotumor without either a CT or MRI. At least, that's what we were told with Barkis. You can make an educated guess on the basis of symptom progression, but you can't know for sure without the imaging.

Also, just to clarify what I think I know about the prednisone, I don't think it directly attacks the tumor itself. I think it may help relieve swelling and inflammation of the tissue around the tumor which can help blunt the tumor's impact on the brain. It also may have some beneficial effect on altering the ACTH-feedback loop which is the thing that may keep the tumor from growing as quickly. I do not understand the ins-and-outs of that feedback loop, but that is the issue associated with Cushing's treatment and pituitary tumor growth. I'll try to come back later and add some more info about the feedback loop (or you may already have read about it yourself during your own searches...).

Marianne

[labblab]

Here's the quote I was looking for:


Because most chemotherapeutic agents have no effect
on the pituitary itself, they do not inhibit ACTH secretion,
which may actually increase with therapy.This phenomenon,
known as Nelson’s syndrome, has been well
documented in humans with pituitary tumors treated
with bilateral adrenalectomy. Nelson’s syndrome refers
to rapid enlargement of a pituitary mass that occurs after
loss of negative feedback from adrenal cortisol production,
which has an inhibitory effect on ACTH release...


http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229

So what I don't know is whether, in this regard, adding a controlled amount of prednisone would be better/worse than discontinuing or altering the trilo and letting the cortisol naturally elevate. But I'll bet Dr. B will have an opinion.

[Mel-Tia]

Just nipping into say hello

Hope you are both ok?

Mel
Xxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

Marianne,
I cut and pasted your quote and question to my email for Dr. B. I'll let you know if/when I hear anything. If I don't get a response in the next week or so, I will try calling. Thanks or your help once more.
I am hoping I hear something from my vet this week too. Thanks!:)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Mel,:)
Yes we're okay! Thanks for checking:);)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Yes Marianne you are right.:) The neurosurgeon told me that there was no way to determine 100% the presence of a brain tumor or Macro without imaging tests such as an MRI or CT. That has not changed. I was just hoping that Dr. B. could tell me something that would help. We'll see if he responds.
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hey Kathy,
Your questions sound like good ones to me, along with Marianne added in, it has to get Dr. B at least thinking about possibilities. Did you mention the hypoglycemia too? That this is another thing they think Buddy has, what those symptoms were and his response to the sugar? Just so he has a completely clear picture. Oh and tell him how Buddy runs around chasing lizards like there is nothing wrong and just being his happy self, except for you know, when he's not. Just so he can see a complete picture of that activity too.
A mom on a mission is nothing to be messed with!!! Go Mom!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Sharlene,
I didn't want to overwhelm Dr. B with too many details, but I think he'll get the gist of it. I'll fill him in on the reactive hypoglycemia in my next email, if I get a response at all. I think I filled him in on just about everything else.

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

LOL Kathy, Okay, no overwhelming the good doctor. :)
I think he will respond though, he seems to have responded to others, so why not. :) I have high hopes anyway.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

After my day at my mothers I am catching up on posts. I love it that Buddy was out doing his thing with the lizards as usual! :) I am glad to hear you have gotten at least a little rest now too. ;)
Was just reading about Dr. Bruyette..he surely sounds like the guy with all the info. Glad someone is trying to find some cures for this lousy disease. I hope you hear back from him. If you can tell anything by someone's photo I would say he looks very kind! Will be interested to hear any response you get.
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

Praying the good vet will help little Buddy, and you will better know how to treat the "Mighty Lizard Hunter".....

[Budsters Mom]

I got an answer from Dr. B already. It is cut and pasted below.....

Hi

I do agree that its very suspicious that you are dealing with a large pituitary tumor. You would need a MRI but I dont understand the costs as it should be much less than 3,000.

At this time we dont have any drugs to use that would not involve a clinical trial and that would mean your dog would have to be in LA for the duration of the study (6 months).

I would stay on both trilostane and prednisone. The prednisone really only works to decrease swelling in the brain. It wont have any effect on tumor size but it is helpful none the less.

Dave


David Bruyette, DVM, DACVIM
Medical Director
david.bruyette@vcahospitals.com

We invite you to provide a testimonial or review about your experience with VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital at:

VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital

[molly muffin]

Kathy,

I am happy that he responded so quickly. I think that he is correct that the price of the MRI, is not in line with what others have paid.

hugs,
Sharlene

[frijole]

Wow he's fast! Imagine how many emails he gets too. Way to go.

OK so based on what he was told he agrees with what your vet is telling you re the problem. He agrees with your thoughts on staying on the trilo/pred combo. He feels the MRI cost is out of line and says an mri is necessary if you want to know for sure.

How do you feel? It was short but he seemed to address alot of your questions and give you honest answers. Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy is not on the Trilo Prednisone combo yet. He is only getting Trilo at this time. I decided that keeping Buddy on the Trilo and adding Prednisone would be the best course of action for Buddy after researching numerous articles. I am still waiting to hear from his vet. He was going to contact the neurosurgeon that did Buddy's consultation to get her input and review all of Buddy's tests. Buddy's appointment was last Tuesday. I just forwarded my email to Dr. B and his response on to my vet. I want to get the prednisone started ASAP. Reducing brain swelling could help with the tremors making Buddy more comfortable. You asked how I am feeling. I am relieved to get some honest answers from an expert such as Dr. B. I am sad that Buddy's prognosis is grim, but I would rather know. I am thrilled that Dr. B responded so quickly. I just emailed him this afternoon! I am feeling a mix of emotions right now. I wish I could do more. Ask me how I'm feeling tomorrow and it will probably be something entirely different.;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I am glad to hear you are breathing a sigh of relief after talking to Dr. B. At least you know where you stand. I just really can't believe the price of that MRI. Tipper and I are still praying for a miracle to come thru for your precious Buddy. He is too cute, I wish Tipper could meet him as I talk to her about Buddy quite often. I still believe in miracles so maybe God will have mercy on Buddy ad grant him one. God Bless You and Buddy
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
I am sure that Buddy would love to meet Tipper.;):) He loves everybody! The mailman, UPS delivery man, salesman, etc., all his very best friends. Buddy loves company, the more the better! He is a very friendly chap!:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Fellasmom]

Kathy
So pleased that you heard back from doc so quickly.At least you have prob THE BEST opinion of how to treat at this point.I would be very anxious to start the prednisone as well.You and Buddy have been in my prayers and I hope that you hear back from your vets soon enough so that you can start him on the new medication.Hope Buddy is having a good day and the lizard hunting is plentiful today.:)
Patty

[labblab]

Kathy, I'm really surprised and pleased that Dr. B replied so quickly, too! :)

Dang, I just wish he'd gone into more detail, though. Like, what would be the best dosing formula for the supplemental prednisone? But I guess you can always ask follow-up questions once you've heard back from the neurosurgeon. ;)

Marianne

P.S. Somehow I had missed that $3,000 quote for the MRI. That does seem exceedingly high. I think we were quoted no more than $1,000 and maybe even less. FWIW, I think a CT is even less expensive for people who mainly want confirmation of the presence or absence of an enlarged tumor. My impression was that the radiation oncologists would have wanted an MRI if we had pursued radiation treatment. But solely for the purposes of diagnostics, a CT may be a cheaper alternative. We didn't even pursue a CT, though, ourselves.

[Trixie]

So glad you got a quick reply. Well if this vet thinks the fee for the MRI was inflated then it must be. Certainly it would be most expensive in a city like L.A. and if it's less there it should be less everywhere.
It will be interesting to hear what your vet and the neuro suggest now. The Trilo/Pred combo sounds like a good way to turn so Buddy can remain comfortable. Hopefully you will hear from your team soon.
Glad your summer break is in sight!! :D yay!
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Marianne,
I cut and pasted part of the email that I sent to Dr. B. .....

Quote....
They recommended a $3000 MRI. If he had a or tumor or a stroke, it would probably show on the MRI. The other option was to test for Cushings, start treatment if found and wait for more neuro symptoms to appear. I had already spent more than $1600 the previous week on vet bills and did not have an additional $3000 for an MRI. I chose the second option and Cushing's testing was started the next day.
End of quote....

The Vet specialty hospital where Buddy had his Neuro exam game me a quote of over $3000 for an MRI. I don't have the exact amount with me. I think it was actually something like $3200. I remember feeling devastated at that moment, knowing that I didn't have the money. Now that the general consensus of all the docs including Dr. B is the presence of a macro tumor. I am satisfied with that. I don't need to beg, borrow or steal to come up with that kind of money. I would prefer to go ahead and start treatment knowing that a macro tumor is highly suspicious (per Dr. B). Starting the prednisone might help reduce inflammation which could minimize Buddy's head tremors. It is all about making him comfortable for as long as possible. This morning he was telling me off because he thought his breakfast was late and he was having none of it! Still spunky, eats well, poops are good, Cushing symptoms controlled (except for rear leg weakness), still an opinionated little busy body, has to be the center of attention, Knows that the world revolves around him, is smarter than all of my family put together and forever the hunter! :);) As long as he's happy and doesn't seem to be in pain, we'll continue on. The journey continues......

Thanks for all the love,
Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

I looked up the quote from the vet specialty hospital for the MRI when I got home. It is $3147.29
The price includes:
MRI Imaging
MRI Interpretation fee
General Anesthesia technician
Anesthetic protocol and induction of drugs
Catheterization – intravenous
Day case/nursing care

This is the actual quote that I was given at the time of Buddy's neuro consultation. :(

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy,
Is that the same place as the imaging center of san diego? I was looking for another option in the area, and that was the only one that kept popping up. Seems they try to get all the local GP's to send to them for imaging. Suppose to be a great place, but yowser, that is pricey. I say that based upon just looking at another thread, who had a macro and imaging done for 1,322.85, also in California, Fountain View maybe. So I think they are out to lunch with this 3147.29 pricing. Also, that dog, Tessie had radiation therapy and went on to live for gosh, quite a bit longer, passed at age18 years from kidney problems. (common once they get up to that age I think).

Yes, I'm going through reading threads on macro tumors, etc. We actually have quite a few on here and I thought maybe some would give ideas of what has worked, what hasn't, etc. I've only gotten through a couple, but that is because I'm starting at the beginning and reading all the way through.

HUGS,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
So, pffffttt..on that price. hmmph too.

[Mel-Tia]

I am with you guys ridiculous amount of money!

That's what I love about this place, Sharlene you rock for doing that for Kathy and buddy

Hope you guys are ok? Did any lizards dare to come in the garden?

Mel
Xxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

Sharlene,
I don't think there's much point in getting an MRI done at this point. I wouldn't be opting for radiation therapy anyway, as I wouldn't want to put Buddy through that and it's too expensive. So there is no point paying for an expensive imaging just to verify what the docs already suspect. Would have helped to know a couple months ago before the neuro symptoms started to escalate. Now, I just want the docs to start treatment by adding the correct dosage of Prednisone, and we go from there. I called my vet's office to see if they received the email that I forwarded from Dr. B last evening. I haven't heard back. I am not asking for a response yet, I just want to know if they got it. If I don't hear this week, I'm going to run copies of all of it and hand deliver a written copy to them early next week. I can certainly be a squeaky wheel when I have to be.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Fellasmom]

Kathy
I was just going to add my 2 cents worth but as I went back and read your last post,you pretty much summed it up the way I felt as well.But I love Sharlene's pffttt!:).I felt the same as you when my Golden Kelsey was suspected of having a brain tumor.She had been hospitalized,bill was already up to 5000 and they wanted to do an MRI to confirm tumor which at that time was a few thousand.She was recieving prednisone while hospitalized.I really struggled with having it done vs not but it was my friend who talked me throught it and asked if I had it done and it did confirm a brain tumor,what would I do differently?And the answer was nothing,I would continue with the prednisone.Awful that everything is so expensive but sometimes you have to pick and choose what's really needed and how necessary it is to have it done.I know I'm probaby stating the obvious,but just make sure they add some sort of an antacid to proctect his GI tract.The genius's at Angell did NOT have Kelsey on one and she had a GI bleed.I'll insert one of Sharlene's pfftt here!:D.

[molly muffin]

I knew you had basically ruled out an MRI and radiation already.
Think of it more as an indignation on the behalf of pet owners in your area, who are faced with difficult decisions that should not be compounded by outrageous price gouging on top of everything else. :mad:

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Sharlene,
You Go Girl!
I would have tried to figure out a way to pay for an MRI at the time of Buddy's neuro consultation, if the cost wasn't so high!!

[Budsters Mom]

Neurosurgeon/Vet Update....
My vet just called. He received the email that I had forwarded to him with Dr. B's recommendation. He had just talked with the neurosurgeon from the specialty hospital that had done Buddy's neuro consultation and was faxed her evaluation. She is still recommending an MRI, but realizes that isn't going to occur. He asked her about the Trilo/Prednisone drug protocol for treatment of Macro-tumors. He had heard of it before, but did not know the protocol or dosages and had never tried it. She advised him to put Buddy on a two week trial of Prednisone while monitoring symptoms, then re-evaluate at that time. I will be picking up the RX for the Prednisone tomorrow at my vet and taking it to Walmart or Costco. I get Trilo from Diamondback, but don't need to order such a small amount on-line. The dosage is something like a half of a 5 mg tablet twice a day for a week, then a half of a 5 mg tablet once a day for the second week. I will post the exact dosage after I get the pills tomorrow. My vet is going to be gone a couple weeks in July, so he wants to start the trial right away so he can find the dosage that works the best for Buddy. We might have to tweak it a little until we find the correct dosage. It is a little like trilostane in that way. He said that he wouldn't feel comfortable attempting this at all if I wasn't so knowledgeable. I am knowledgeable because I have all of you!;):)

[Roxee's Dad]

This is great news, we are so glad you did all that work and follow up :D

We will be keeping everything crossed, fingers and paws that this works out for you and Buddy. :)

You are a wonderful mom :D

[Trixie]

I'm glad your vet is on top of everything Kathy. I hope the med combo works out just right for Buddy. I bet your vet is impressed by your knowledge!
:) Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I am so happy that the Dr. is working with you to help Buddy. We are saying prayers that this helps Buddy, and that he has no more tremors. God Bless
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

Kathy, you are doing a fantastic job taking care of sweet Buddy, and I am so proud of you. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Kathy

Just checking in to see if you are both ok?

Tight hugs for you and big kisses for buddy

Mel
Xxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

I picked up Buddy's RX for Prednisone after work today and filled it at Walmart. The neuro-surgeon from the specialty hospital (that did Buddy's neuro consultation) is overseeing Buddy's Trilo/Prednisone trial. I can't afford to go there, but I can definitely pick her very large brain!:D That is the place with the $3000 MRI!:( My vet is implementing her instructions as to protocol and dosage. I will be reporting to my doctor, who will then relay the findings to her. The dosage on the bottle for the 3 week trial is ......
5 mg. tablets. 1/2 tab. Twice a day with food for two weeks
1/2 tab. Once per day with food for one week Evaluate toward the end of the third week and adjust dosage as needed. Monitor closely and report to vet weekly or immediately if there are any questions or concerns.
I am not going to start the trial until Saturday when I can be home.
Hugs,
Kathy

PS Ah Mel, Hugs and kisses to you too!!

[Budsters Mom]

Does anyone know about Prednisone as it relates to allergies. I was reading the product information (that nobody reads) that came with Buddy's pills. It stated that Prednisone is used for severe allergies, arthritis, asthma, skin conditions, and other conditions determined by you doctor. Since Buddy is starting the Prednisone/ Trilostane trial, does this mean he may not need Benadryl for his allergies while he is on Prednisone. What do you think??

Hugs,
Kathy

[Scarlett'sdad]

When Scarlett was five, before she started on cyclosporine, she took temaril-p, which combines trimeprazine, an antihistamine, with prednisone. Her vet at the time said it was more effective than prednisone alone. When she took cyclosporine, she took benadryl as an antihistamine as trimeprazine is hard to find by itself. If Buddy is very itchy, as Scarlett's atopy made her, I think he might feel better on both prednisone and an antihistamine.

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy, nice that you get the benefit of the specialist without having to actually to be a patient. That is very cool of your vet to work with them.
All I know is that I gave my Golden Tasha, prednisone for allergies, most of her life. From the time she was 2 she had very bad allergies. So, it could help. You'd have to see how he does without the benadryl and then add it back in if needed.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Think of prednisone as cortisol because that is what is imitates. So cush dogs with high cortisol have less problems with arthritis, some have skin itching but not all, increased water intake/urination... just be prepared. I have no ideas about allergies. God bless you girl - you are just doing such a great job with all this. Organized as heck and using the resources so well. Proud of you. Kim

[Trixie]

well, I'm not sure about dogs but my mother is on prednisone for a severe rash of unknown origin. So in her case it is definitely being used for an allergic reaction.
Buddy may not need the benadryl while on the prednisone but I'm sure your vet would have instructions on that.
I hope the combo of meds does the trick to keep any tremors at bay while still keeping Cushing's in check.
Glad you have the neuro on board without the fees!!

Barbara :)

[Renee & the Furkids]

I'm pretty much a newbie to this Cushings stuff, so I have no advice for you... but I wanted to send healing vibes and hugs to you and Buddy. You are doing such a good job with Buddy, he is a lucky doggie to have you.

[Trish]

Hi Kathy and Budster
Just popping in to say Hi and so pleased to hear of that speedy reply to your email! That's amazing for such an expert to get back to you, warms the heart :):)
Hope your day is going brilliantly! xx

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I can tell you first hand from Tipper's allergy history that prednisone was used on her and she did not need the Benadryl. It is for inflammation, rashes, etc. Tipper did well just from using the pred. I am praying that Buddy does well on his new meds and that this is the answer. Tipper used the liquid pred. I wish you were close to me and Buddy could have the MRI for 950.00. Good God where do they get these prices?? Maybe Buddy could hitch hike over, and Tipper would take him for the MRI?? Just tell Buddy ahead of time Tipper is requesting he bring a lizard, so she can catch one too! Although he may get stopped by the border patrol for carrying a native species across state lines. I am sure Buddy with his feisty attitude can handle it. I would give Buddy the pred. and check his allergies the next few days with no Benadryl given. You are doing a wonderful job with Buddy, and his will have the best chances of beating this because of your diligence. Blessings
Patti

[Simba's Mom]

Hope the new meds help Buddy, the lizard population is getting out of control...hugs and prayers....

[Budsters Mom]

So true Letti, The lizards have been sniggering at Buddy lately.;) no head tremors for 11 days now. I am not sure what's going on there:confused:

Hugs,
Kathy

[Boriss McCall]

I am glad Buddy is getting the help he needs. so sorry you are dealing with a macro. :(
It sounds like you are going to be able to keep him comfy & happy which is a good thing.
hugs to you & Buddy!

[Trixie]

Wow...no tremors for 11 days?
How about the other neuro symptoms...have you noticed anything the last couple of days? Seems like no tremors for that long is good news. I hope Buddy is having a great day and you too!! :D :D
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hello angels, :)
Thank you for your continued support and love. As for the suspected macro, it is what it is.:(If it is not a macro, then it's a brain tumor. Either way it's bad news! All I have control over is my reaction to this turn of events. I was devastated at first and unable to function well. I went several days without sleep and became a zombie on autopilot. I have processed the news now and am able to view the bigger picture as to what is next. Obviously, the no sleep thing wasn't working out. I am sleeping now, but still not well. I hear every little noise during the night and still get up to check on buddy. I am no longer worried about him passing in his sleep, while I am sleeping. Yes, I will be devastated, but that would be a peaceful way for him to go. I potty him and we have massage and cuddle time before bed. I tell him how much he is loved, how proud I am of him and that he's the best friend ever. In the morning we have a good morning cuddle and another massage to start his day. If he passes during the night or while I'm at work, he will know without a doubt that he was truly loved. My mission now is to keep him happy, pain-free and mobile for as long as possible. His neuro symptoms are worsening, so I don't know how long that will be. I was recently advised by a very smart angel (You know who you are!:)) To enjoy every minute, take pictures, videos, and make memories. I am trying to do that. I let Buddy do exactly as he pleases now and make as much noise as he wants. He was spoiled before. Now he is spoiled rotten!;) He gets all the attention that he can possibly handle. When he wants something, I stop whatever I am doing to make it happen. He will be my focus for us long as I have him. The journey continues.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy--hugs to you and Buddy! He's a special boy :p and you're a special mom to him. xo Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy, hugs to you and Buddy. I hope that you had a good day, and there was some lizard hunting going on. :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Keep spoiling, smiling and hugging girl! :D Kim

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I am glad that Buddy has had no head tremors for 11 days. The way you put things about Buddy passing in his sleep is how I feel with Tipper. I did not always feel that way, I always thought I wanted one last time to tell her I love her. I tell her every night before we go to bed, when we have our one on one time and I tell her everything on my mind. I would be devastated, but would be hysterical if she was passing and I could not help her, so maybe that is best. I think the Dr. is awfully full of herself to make me wait until next week to find out about Tipper, or is it that she just doesn't know what is wrong?? You are doing a wonderful job with Buddy. I am interested in knowing how it is going on the prednisone? When you have the most special friend in your dog that you have ever had, it is so hard to deal with something that is going to take their life. You have handled all this exceptionally, and I hope that I can be as strong as you when I am faced with Tipper's situation. This disease bankrupts you financially, morally, spiritually, and emotionally, it needs to be eradicated off the face of the earth. It has taken it's toll on far too many people and dogs. I pray for a miracle for our babies every day. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Starting 3 week Trilo/prednisone drug trial tomorrow morning (Sat.)
I am a little nervous about it. What should I expect to see?
8 work days til summer break!:)

[Roxee's Dad]

We are all hoping that this is the answer :D Your cush family will be here with you and Buddy in spirit :)

[Trixie]

I hope this combo is just what Buddy needs. His trilostane dose stays the same right? Yay for being so close to your summer break! I bet Buddy is super happy about that too!!!
:) Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
What is happening with the storm and how is Trixie?
Yes, Buddy's Trilo dose will remain the same. We'll see how it goes. I might stay home Monday to monitor him an extra day, we'll see.

Hugs,
Kathy

[labblab]

Hi Kathy,

Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about :). Probably the main negative thing that could happen is that you'd see a rebound of some of Buddy's Cushing's-like symptoms due to the action of the prednisone. But if so, and if the neurological benefit doesn't seem worth the trade-off, you can always return to status quo by weaning back off the prednisone.

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

Thank you Marianne,:)
That is probably the reason for the three week trial. To see if adding the prednisone helps the neurological symptoms. Two doses per day for the first two weeks then one dose per day for the third week. Report and reassess during the middle of the third week. That's the plan.;) The Neurosurgeon is supervising the trial. It is being implemented through my vet. That way I am not having to pay for a specialist, but still get the input from one.:);)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

hi Kathy,
It's raining like crazy! Torrential downpours all day. Trixie has been hiding in various locations around the house! :eek: Right now she's under the kitchen table. Poor little girl. The rain is noisy and she doesn't like it but because there's no thunder she's not shaking or panting which is a relief..so even though she's hiding out she's not too stressed.
Crossing my fingers that the drug combo tomorrow is helpful to Buddy! :)
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Good luck with the trial of both drugs. Hoping for very positive results with the combo.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks guys.:) Buddy hasn't had any head tremors for 13 days now. :confused:None since before his Hypoglycemia episode. Ever since then,I have been feeding him smaller amounts more often, several times per day. That is really hard when I'm working! However, he has not had any head tremors since I started feeding him more often. The head tremors could be related to the hypoglycemia. Any thoughts?
This doesn't explain his neuro deficits, which continue to worsen. I'm going ahead and starting the trial in the morning.

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy,

I really don't know, but when I just looked it up, a couple pages list "head tremors" as appearing before a hypoglycemia attacks. So it is possible that they are associated. It also mentioned that it could cause head tremors or hind leg tremors.
I'm sorry that the neuro deficits have gotten worse and sincerely hope that the prednisone will help with that.
The small meals several times a day must really be helping if he has gone this long without an episode. That is really good Kathy. You're doing awesome. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Ohhh I cannot remember but did they test Buddy to see if it was in fact related to hypoglycaemia? Pleased to hear it has not been a problem for nearly a couple of weeks yahoo :D:D That's the news we like to hear! I have fingers crossed the Pred does the trick too at reducing any inflammation and settles his neuro symptoms even further.

I like your style Kathy, your keep calm and carry on is the best possible approach to handling Buddy is so impressive, you aren't letting your own anxiety and stress impact on him!! Way to go you... I try and do that, hard as it is but I just wanted to say how much I admire you and how your care for your little darling, who knows what the next days, weeks, months, years are going to bring and all we can do is keep enjoying the time we have left with our babies and creating many many more good memories... You Rock! :D:D xxxx

[Budsters Mom]

Trish,
The doc's don't know if Buddy's head tremors are related to his reactive hypoglycemia or to brain swelling. He has only had one bout of full blown Hypoglycemia. That's when his legs gave way and he started walking like he was drunk, then couldn't get up at all. I gave him a little sugar water, which he lapped up greedily. Within a half hour he was up walking normally. The only way that they can hundred percent be sure of the hypoglycemia is to do a blood glucose level when the attack is actually taking place. That is next to impossible because it's dangerous to wait if low blood sugar is suspected. Neuro issues continue to escalate. His front legs buckle a lot more when he walks and his back legs don't work well. I massage his legs, which does help him move better. Thank you for the compliments Trish. I can't fix Buddy. The only thing I can do is to try to keep him happy, comfortable and mobile for as long as possible.

[Mel-Tia]

Good morning

Just nipping in to say hello and to see how you both are today?

Hope it's lizard hunting weather today, so the wee man gets to have some fun.

Big hug, kisses for Buddy

Mel
Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Tipper is sending Buddy big hugs, and hoping he does exceptional during his trial period. We are continuing to pray for a miracle for Buddy. I am sorry to hear the neuro signs are worsening. You handle all this with such grace, and your Buddy knows you are keeping calm for his sake. God Bless You Both
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Mel,
The lizards are hiding. We haven't seen any for days!:eek:;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

They know the mighty lizard hunter lurks around the corner. :)

hehehe,
sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Kathy,
How is Buddy doing today? Any noticeable effects from the med combo? I hope he is feeling fine tonight. :p
Barbara :)

[Budsters Mom]

Big improvement in mobility and balance with just one dose. Neural deficits diminished. I just gave Buddy his second dose of prednisone with his dinner. No noticeable changes in Cushings symptoms as of yet, except Buddy seems to be drinking more water today. It's really too soon to tell. Right now he is barking at something out the front door. He has been engaged in all activities today.:)

Kathy

[Roxee's Dad]

So far so good, Keeping fingers and paws crossed that this is the answer for "The Budster" :)

[Trixie]

That's such good news...so glad you see a difference already! :)
Barbara

[Tina]

Hi Kathy,
I am so happy that you are already seeing an improvement with the prednisone, I hope things continue to improve!! :) When Jasper was on higher doses of prednisone, his drinking and peeing increased quite a bit as those are side effects. I know you are watching for those things, and while not ideal, they are manageable symptoms. Jasper's water intake has never really normalized, but I have adjusted. You are doing a wonderful job with Buddy. I have not been able to post much lately but read daily, and you and Buddy are always in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs from me and Jasper

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Tipper and I are over the moon about the improvement in Buddy with just one dose. We are hoping he can stay at an even keel now and not have any further issues. God Bless you, you are doing great with Buddy. He must be thrilled that some of those nasty symptoms went away too! Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I forgot to tell you Tipper said the reason there are no lizards is they heard Buddy was getting better and they high tailed it out of there!!

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks for your well wishes wishes and support. :) Buddy is up and running around all over the place this morning. :) He is running straight and not wobbly like he normally does and is yapping at me for breakfast. :pHis neural symptoms have vastly improved. The prednisone does seem to be helping with his mobility. I think it is making him itchy because his paws were damp this morning. He licks at them when he feels itchy. I'm going to continue to give him Benadryl for his allergies. I am hoping that will help with the itchiness. I don't want to have to stop the prednisone so soon, particularly when it does seem to be helping. I have noticed that he is drinking more water. Any thoughts, pass them along. I will keep you posted. Thanks Angels;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy,

That is so great that the neurological symptoms have improved after just a dose and continue to do well. I'd think that is a good start to the trial. I don't know if that means that there was only slight pressure "inflammation" around the tumor or what. That would be interesting to see what the specialist/vet thinks about that. Since I'm on the optimistic bandwagon though, I'm going to just take it as a good sign over all. :)
I was just reading this morning that diluted pure apple cider vinegar, diluted in water, to soak their paws in, is something that can be used for itchy, allergic symptoms with dogs.
Another thing I came across and I don't know why I hadn't seen it before, is that cortisol affects the insulin levels, absorption, etc and that one of the signs mentioned with cushings is the possibility of fasting hyperglycemia. So by feeding Buddy the smaller meals, more times a day, you could be really getting a hand on controlling that, which would make the tremors probably related to the hyperglycemia and hence, less of them as that is now controlled.
Who knew! You learn something every day it seems on the forum.
Just stuff I came across, that you probably already know, but if not, thought would be worth sharing with you.
I was actually looking for calcium deposit information at the time, but you never know where you'll end up finding information at when searching about and reading these things.
I hope you have a lovely Sunday. Sounds like Buddy is going to be keeping you on your toes today, full of energy the little mighty lizard hunter!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Sharlene, thanks for the information. :);) I have been doing a lot of research too. There is so much to learn. Please feel free to pass on any and all information you have. As with regard to soaking the paws in cider vinegar, do you rinse them off afterward? Does the soaking stop the itching, or just make their paws tastes bad so they don't want to lick them? I've seen what buddy licks, cider vinegar is not going to stop him!!!:eek: Concerning the head tremors, none for 15 days now. The longest he has gone between tremors is 10 days. It looks like they are related to his reactive hypoglycemia. He hasn't had any head tremors since before his bout of hypoglycemia. Smaller meals more often, does seem to be doing the trick. There certainly appears to be a tumor, because the improvement in Buddy's neural symptoms is phenomenal! There was obviously enough swelling to interfere with his ability to stand, walk, and move. No face plants since he started on Prednisone yesterday. He is happy and all over the place! The mighty lizard Hunter on steroids, those lizards better watch out!;):D

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

I think that is awesome about the neurological symptoms. Just fabulous. Just that it corrected so quickly, it seems that it must have not been so much inflammation or it would have taken more days to go down. I hoping that it "might" mean that it isn't as big as originally thought and it could just be that the placement of it is very inconvenient for the nerves that any inflammation would press on. Like I said, I'm on a major optimistic role today. LOL

No you don't rinse. You use a diluted amount in water, and the properties of apple cider vinegar seems to be that it immediately reduces itching. You can also use it after a shampoo, also diluted and never full strength and rub into skin, massage in I'd guess or use with a spray bottle (don't get in eyes) and same thing, it reduces itching almost instantly upon contact from what I have read.
Look up apple cider vinegar dogs. I found a couple different pages.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks Sharlene, I'll try it. With regards to cortisol levels and insulin, I think it would be a good idea to feed all our Cush pups smaller amounts more often, if possible. That could help protect them from getting hypoglycemia in the first place. What do you think!! I hope you Sunday is truly blissful!

Happy dog, happy Sunday, eight work days to Summer break! Life is good!:D:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy,
Since it is a risk, yea, I'd think smaller meals more often could be a good idea.

I agree, blissful Sunday :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Those lizards must have wised up. Maybe they clocked the one joining the graveyard last week :eek:

I am so pleased that things seem to be progressing in the right direction, no tremors and better walking. That is great news

Big hug to you and kisses to Buddy

Mel
Xxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

I need to stop reading about brain and macro rumors. That is really grim stuff!:(. It puts me in the wrong frame of mind. Buddy's mobility has greatly improved since starting the prednisone. He's been licking at his feet when he rests or sleeps, I am hoping the prednisone isn't causing the itching. He is allergic to a lot of things. The licking only started after I started giving him the prednisone. That concerns me.:confused: He has been drinking and peeing much more often and in larger amounts. He is also more hungry now. Those Cushing's symptoms have returned. The peeing is a problem for Buddy. He will not have an accident in the house and doesn't have a clue as to what to do with pee pads. He is likely to injure himself trying to hold it until he's let out. He has a doggie door that he can no longer use because of his mobility issues. That is really hard when no one is home to be able to leave the door open for him. Thankfully, it is almost my summer break so that won't be a problem then. I am staying home tomorrow because I'm not feeling well. That's at least one day I won't have to worry about.;)

Hugs,
Kathy

[Tina]

Kathy, Jasper was exactly the same way about not having an accident in the house. He would hold it indefinitely, and I worried about that so much. His drinking and peeing decreased a lot when he was on the Lysodren, but that was just for a short time. After he went through the Addisonian crisis and was hospitalized, we have never been able to get the drinking and peeing back within normal limits. He apparenly has some kidney damage from the Cushings, which my vet believes is the reason his drinking and peeing have not decreased to be more normal.

I had to start barricading him in the kitchen with pee pads when I go to work. I was sure he would not be able to figure out how to use the pads either, and was just praying that he would pee and not try to hold it all day.

I learned about pooch pads from this forum, you can google them for more information. They are washable and hold a lot more liquid than the disposable pee pads. I bought some, and it took him about a week to figure out what he was supposed to do. ;) I was so pleasantly surprised! They have been absolute lifesavers, I don't know what I would do without them. Jasper drinks so much during the day when I am gone, and he goes on the pads. I mop the floor real quick every day after work in case his aim isn't so good. :rolleyes: :D

You are very lucky that you will soon be on your summer break. I work year round so did not have any other option for Jasper. Like I said, the pooch pad have been lifesavers. He has figured out that he can go on them so doesn't worry about it or try to hold his pee, which I was very concerned about since he already has some kidney issues that he is being treated for.

I would highly recommend that you try this for Buddy so that will be more comfortable when you are gone. :)

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I feed Tipper 4 small meals a day. I have done that for about 10 years now as it has always help keep her weight down. The only draw back is she times it to the minute and bugs the heck out of me 4 times a day instead of one. That's ok though as it has helped her, so I am sure it is good for the Cushings too. They seem not to get as hungry throughout the day if you do the smaller meals more often. Well the honeymoon is over, Tipper started back with the breathing struggles last night. I am hoping since the Dr. said she would contact me early this week that she meant Monday. I am carrying the phone around with me until she calls, as I do not want to miss this. I have some notes of questions for her also. This waiting is killing me. Hope everyone had a good weekend. We had a small shower here this morning, and just got Tipper's walk done. God Bless
Patti

[Mel-Tia]

Sometimes it's hard not to look at there is a wealth of information at your fingertips. Knowing when to stop is hard, I think you have to remind yourself that what you read doesn't mean that will happen in buddy's case. Each pup is different

So I am nipping in to send you a tight hug and let you know i am thinking of you and the little guy.

Love
Mel
Xxxxx

[Trixie]

So the news sounds mostly positive about the neuro symptoms and overall reaction to the Prednisone. Funny that Trixie has been doing a little habitual paw licking recently, something she rarely did. Maybe the high cortisol in her symptom kept her from being very itchy?
No tremors for all these days is probably proof of the hyperglycemic episode then?
Sounds like it's going pretty well..a few Cushing's symptoms peeking out but all in all not seeing Buddy struggle with mobility is great!
We do many small meals all day too...seems to work best for Trixie that way. She actually comes to "tell" me when she's ready for a snack. These dogs have great body clocks!
I hope Buddy continues do show good results from the new combo treatment. :)
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Barbara,
I am home with Buddy today. He's been sleeping most of the morning. His AM trilostane dose seems to be keeping his drinking and peeing under control in the morning. That is actually good because he can't always get out. He hasn't been out to pee since 7:00 this morning. That does make sense since he only takes trilostane in the morning once per day. As it starts to wear off later in the afternoon, his cortisol rises and the symptoms appear. That is fine because someone is around to leave the door open then. It is better that his cortisol rises in the afternoon and evening anyway. That might actually help slow the growth of the tumor a bit. He's getting a little benefit from the cortisol rising and still has the prednisone for his mobility and neurological symptoms. No head tremors for 16 days now. It sure looks like that they are related to the hypoglycemia. So far, so good!

[molly muffin]

Yay 16 days!!! Go Buddy!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

Wow!16 days-that's awesome Kathy!I haven't responded in awhile but have been following your thread as well as the others.Sounds like the prednisone/tril combo is doing a good job-must be a huge relief for you both not to have the head tremors.The small frequent meals are a great idea and probably very helpful.We actually should all eat small freq meals as it it helps regulate our blood sugars and keeps our metabolism going.Hope Buddy continues to do well and glad you'll be home with him soon.
Patty

[Budsters Mom]

My vet just called for a report from me, so he could relay that information to the neurosurgeon who is supervising the trial. He then called me back with her findings. Per doctor....Since Buddy' s neurological symptoms have improved so greatly, and so quickly, that would indicate a problem in the central nervous system. Specifically, the presence of a brain or Pituitary macro tumor. Since Cushing's is a factor, a macro tumor seems much more likely. If there had been no changes in his neurological symptoms, then it would've been unlikely that a tumor was interfering with his mobility. This is the most accurate verification we're going to get without image testing. We are continuing with the drug trial now as is if he does have a tumor. The goal is to lower the prednisone to the smallest possible dose that still takes care of the symptoms once the trial is complete. Lowering the dosage lessons the chance of serious side effects, especially when it's a long-term use of prednisone.

[molly muffin]

Hi Kathy
Well it does make sense and I'm glad there is a plan to get to the lowest possible dosage. It's a good goal to have for best mobility and quality of life. So proud of you Kathy. You're an awesome mum for the might lizard hunter.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy no longer has a suspected macro tumor. It is pretty much a certainty now. The Trilostane/Prednisone combination will keep him mobile and comfortable longer. It will not stop the tumor's progression. The prednisone is helping him to walk, run and balance, at least for now. It is all unfolding exactly the way I thought it would. I already knew and made my choice as to course of treatment. Then why is it so devastating? I thought I had cried myself out and was moving forward, but there are still plenty of tears left.

[molly muffin]

What the head knows, logic, how things will progress, has done the research, is nothing compared to what the heart knows... love.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

I copied this quote off of another thread. It was written today.

"Most important a vet wouldn't put a dog with cushing's on prednisone because that would make it worse! Seriously - prednisone is = to cortisol which is what causes cortisol. It is 100% equivalent to giving a diabetic dog a box of sugar to eat. Makes no sense whatsoever."

Is this what all of you are thinking about Buddy's drug trial? It is being monitored closely by a neuro-surgeon, my regular vet and me. It is being implemented on Dr. B's recommendation. Be honest. How many of you think it makes no sense?

Kathy

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Kathy,
If you were to ask me that a few years ago, maybe even last year, I would have been doubtful. After reading some, and understanding what you and the Budster were going through. I am behind you 100%.

I do think it takes a caring vet, and owner to get it right. You have both:) Knowing what Buddy has been through and seeing your reports on Buddy puts a big smile on my face and a heart full of happiness. :D

I wanted to add that this is not the norm but seeing the troubles some of our cush pups have, it may become the norm. We learn as we go.

[doxiesrock912]

Kathy,
there is no such thing as a one size fits all treatment plan. That's what makes Cushings so difficult to treat. Daisy and I are STILL trying to find the correct dosage of Trilo that works for her without making her "butt explode".

Also, you love Buddy and he loves you. No amount of research or advanced planning is going to make it easier. They are our family and the thought of losing them is devastating enough, let alone knowing that it is a certainty because of the tumor.

Please know that you are doing what is best for him, and the research will help you and the vet to work as a team in Buddy's best interest and that is what it is all about for every one of us here on this forum.

We do our best, find the best to help us, and love our furlets while they are here with us. Since there is no cure for this disease, the fact that we have learned so much is something to take pride in and to always remember that no matter what happens, we did our absolute best.

(Wow, now the tears are flowing.....)

HUGS!!!!!

[Trixie]

Kathy,
I wish I had the right words. You have been doing great and this is just all so difficult. To get more definitive word from the doctor today just opens the wound once again. The combo meds are helping Buddy with his neuro symptoms and that's so good. You have been doing a great job getting this treatment all worked out and thankfully you have your vet back. One day at a time...
We're all here for you!
Barbara

[Simba's Mom]

So true one day at a time, thats all we can do for our pups...and seeing that Buddy's running around well now is good news, no matter what he has to take....its whatever works for him, you a great Momma!!!

[Trish]

Hi Kathy

I doubt anyone questions what you are doing for Buddy, different drugs are used for different reasons in different situations. Our doggies need individualised plans for treatment, so don't be worrying about any of that sort of stuff or worrying what people think. If they think that all that is needed is a little education that is all.

You have professionals helping you along this path who have the best interests of the Budster at heart, plus you have YOU, the single best advocate for our lizard hunter! Plus you have us, cheering you along every step of the way!

I am so pleased to hear his neuro symptoms are improving on the Prednisone, that was the aim of this treatment and it is working by the sound of it. Even though with that comes the realisation that you are most likely dealing with a macro which I think is what is tearing at your heart, but with this medication we are going to keep that sucker at bay as long as possible! Hope your feeling better and can get through your last few days at work then phew summer holidays and lots of time with your boy!

Lots of hugs for you today Kathy :) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh Kathy! No!

On that same thread, I had made a statement that said, there are only certain instances where you would use prednisone with a cushings dog. Your case would be one of them. Prednisone does act like cortisol, it also acts to reduce swelling and that is why you are on a very small amount, and working towards that very fine balance to get it right of what will control the tumor and not cause the cushings symptoms to get out of control either.

This isn't new here on the forum. We've had macro tumors before where prednisone was used. Saying that, with no neurological symptoms, and no macro suspected, then prednisone is not a good idea, especially when cushings hasn't been diagnosed and the vet is giving prednisone and then testing for cortisol levels. That just won't work.

You want to know what you have going on before you start giving drugs. So far on that thread, we have no diagnosis and no clarity for why the various drugs were given. None of that is the same situation as yours, or any of the others who have used prednisone to get some control of macro tumor symptoms.

I hope that helps to clarify things.

You know that if any of us thought it wasn't a good idea that we would mention it right? :) No shrinking violets here. LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I am glad Buddy's mobility issues are lessening. I am so sorry the Dr. confirmed a macro, nobody ever wants to hear that. I know you still have tears left, and believe me when I read that about your dear Buddy I shed a few. You are doing a wonderful job, and will be out of school soon. You can spend all your time with you dear Buddy then. After all the mighty lizard hunter has to get up to speed here or the lizard population will be on the rise. The lizards are probably wondering when Buddy will be on the prowl. I know it is hard to go thru the day knowing this because as I told you before if it were Tipper I would just melt into a puddle. God Bless you and Buddy we are praying for a miracle for him.
Patti

[labblab]

Kathy, you already know I don't think you're crazy, because I'm the one who suggested the trilo/pred combo in the first place! ;) :)

Just as the others have said, every dog's situation is unique. Prednisone can be both a miracle drug and also a problematic drug, depending on why and for how long it is being used. But there is a specific rationale for Buddy's treatment regimen, and I am delighted that it seems to be helping with the neuro issues.

(Having said that, I do understand why the improvement is bittersweet since it seems to be confirming the macro diagnosis. :o)

So if you are crazy, make room on the loony-bus, because I'm sittin' right beside you...! :rolleyes: :D

[Mel-Tia]

Me too, I boarded about 4 stops back

We would have considered it if our circumstances had been different.

Hope you both are having a good day today.

Mel
Xx

[Boriss McCall]

It is bittersweet.. :( But, I am glad Buddy is doing better. I hope you can block all the fears & horrible ugly things from you mind & enjoy your days together. I know that is easier said than done. I would be throwing up & crying everyday. I just want you two to have many many many good happy fun days together.
I don't think what you are doing is crazy at all. I know others on the board used preds with their babies & macro tumors. What ever makes Buddy happy & feeling good is def the way to go. hugs..

[addy]

Oh, Kathy,

No one thinks that at all. The biggest problem with Cushings is there is no one size fits all for treatment. Heck, Dr. Peterson told me 3 years ago I could try loading Zoe with Lysodren and give her prednisone for her IBD at the same time. ;);)

And they are still talking about basically that for Zoe if we need it as an option only swapping out the pred for Budesonide.

We are not here to judge anyone and we all are rooting for the mighty lizard hunter and his wonderful mom.:):):)

BIG HUGS

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
We are hoping the mighty lizard hunter is still doing well, and that his mom will have the strength needed to guide her thru all of this. You are AWESOME Kathy, and Buddy knows it.
Blessings
Patti

[Mel-Tia]

Hi Kathy

Just wondering how you and the little man are?

Hope you are both having a good day

Big hug, kisses to Buddy

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

The good news is........Buddy is doing well today with excellent mobility. He has been running and walking normally with no face plants. Right now he is chasing and yapping at the birds who have the nerve to fly over his air space!:D No head tremors or reactive hypoglycemic attacks in the last 2 1/2 weeks. :)

Now for the bad news......My car went out on me after work and had to be towed in. It looks like the transmission is shot:( I've already spent all of my summer money on vet bills and then some. Summer was going to be lean as it is. They are still assessing the damage, but I don't have the money to fix it anyway.:( Really, did my car have to die with only 5 work days left til summer break?:( I guess I wasn't stressed enough!!:o

Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Oh dear...that just stinks about your car!! :mad: When it rains it pours, right!!? I am certain you didn't deserve car trouble...sorry!! I hope it ends up being a simple and cheap fix!!
On to the good news about Buddy's excellent day! :D So, so happy to hear the little guy is out playing and that his mobility is so good. Sounds like he is having fun and able to be a happy, active pup! Guess that prednisone is doing what it's supposed to do. :)
I have to say that my mother has had a great reaction to prednisone too! She needed it for a terrible rash of unknown origin but with her Parkinson's and her general mental demeanor we were so afraid that she would have agitation, sleeplessness and other bad side effects. Meanwhile it was just the opposite! The prednisone seemed to actually make everything better while also eliminating the rash. She is still being weaned off of it but it really has helped her.
Sorry to go off on that tangent, but I'm happy this drug has had such good effects on Buddy like it did for my mother!
I know how upsetting it was to watch those neuro symptoms and here he is running around and after those lizards and birds!! YAY! :D
Buddy-the mighty lizard hunter and bird alert expert!! heehee :D
I'll keep my fingers crossed for good news about your car!:rolleyes:
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh no Kathy! What is with these dang cars lately. :( Do you have good public transportation in your area?
I like your good news though. Way to go Buddy. You are doing so excellent with him. wooot wooot!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Doccy]

Hi Kathy,
I've read most of your thread (sorry not all due to size) but I am so sorry to hear about the tumor. Doc had a macro adenoma (pituitary tumor verified by MRI). We chose to do the stereotactic radiation (we did 5 times) and we have had tremendous success in shrinking the tumor. After the radiation they put him on prednisone to reduce swelling that the radiation would cause. It worked extremely well for Doc and really it did not make the cushings symptoms any worse in the long run, but he seemed to improve right away. (He had increased peeing and drinking the first few days, but that subsided as his system got used to the pred). However, when we were talking about all of our options, we talked about what we would do if we did not pursue radiation treatment. They (UF) recommended the prednisone, but also Chinese herbs for cancer (contains mushrooms, milk thistle, etc.) along with Stasis Mansion of the Mind. I know that it is considered "alternative" but the neurologist at UF told me that is what he would do for his dog if radiation was not an option. I can't tell they work for sure, but they seemed to help immediately (in the interim time between diagnosis and radiation treatment). I still have him on them.

Basically, I just want you to know that I'm so sorry you are going through this! I also wanted to answer your question about prednisone. It was a miracle drug for Doc so I think you are doing the right thing. As for the Chinese herbs, I just wanted you to be aware of them. You and Buddy are in my prayers.
Jessica and Doc

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Jessica,
Thank you for your insights. They are very helpful. Buddy can't have milk thistle because of allergies. He's allergic to daisy flowers and ragweed. It specifically says on the bottle not to use milk thistle if allergic to either one of those things. I have to be very careful giving Buddy anything, because he's highly allergic. That really limits what I'm able to do for him. It pains me that I am unable to afford an MRI and radiation treatments. I realize that Buddy's has little chance without them. However, I am thrilled to hear that Doc is doing so well.

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and prayers to you and your little lizard chasing Buddy! One day at a time is all we can do.....

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Have you ever thought about contacting the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America to help Buddy?? I know for a fact that sometimes they have very wealthy members who have lost these dogs and will help financially in order to keep the breed going. There are also many resources in the one section of the home page to write to or call. The Yorkie Club will definitely steer you in the right direction, and may get you a philanthropist that could save Buddy's life. Keep asking and searching online until someone says yes. Ask the hospital where they do the radiation if they have any endowments that they use for this purpose, as many people leave all their money to these places now days. A lady died and left all her money to my vets office in order to help people with pet emergencies.I know it is not easy to ask some unknown person or people for help, but to save Tipper I would do it in a heartbeat. Especially now with the car down. What a mess! My heart breaks for you as I know if it were my Tipper how I would feel. Another possibility is the Care Credit, some people have gotten upwards of 5000.00 and they can stretch the payments out so they are real low. I fell like we are all in this with you. We love hearing about Buddy's antics so much so that we just cannot bear the thought of him not being there to keep those pesky lizards in check. I will research and see if I can find any where that could help if you want me to. Would your car insurance get you a rental car?? I hope you will be able to get to work the last few days. I know what it is like to have all your resources dried up, and scared of having an emergency situation that you cannot pay for. That is the worst situation I have been in. God Bless you and have mercy on you and Buddy.
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

It's okay guys. Thanks for caring.:) I have transportation to work. :)I got a call with my car's estimate. It is going to be about $600. It could have been much worse. It's not the transmission. It's the gear shift assembly. The part is being special ordered from LA, so it's going to take about a week to fix. I am okay with that. Just glad it wasn't something worse.;):) The mighty lizard hunter hunts on. The adventure continues. Buddy is doing great for now. Now is all we have!:o
Hugs,
Kathy

[Trixie]

Kathy, So glad that the car estimate is not as bad as you thought. I'm sure it could have been much worse, so thank goodness for small favors!
That happened with my fridge last month. I thought it was gone for good...and if it was unfixable it was more than buying a new one because it's all built into the kitchen wall and these NY kitchens don't have a spare inch...it would have meant a huge redo job which is basically out of the question now with college tuitions and many vet bills. I was so lucky he fixed it for $400 including his visit, the part and the labor...I got off easy and the fridge is like new! I was so happy I almost cried. It's an old fridge but a really good one. Who thought I could be so happy about spending $400 on a repair, but I was!! Felt like someone was looking out for me! :D
Glad Buddy is having another good day! :p That's all that counts...one day at a time!! Your vacation is just about here!!! :D :
Barbara

[molly muffin]

Well, yay, glad it was the gear shift and not the transmission at least. What ever is the cheaper to fix is always better.
Cars and refrigerators now too. fooey. Hopefully we are all going to have a peaceful nice summer with nothing else going wrong.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Booo to the car playing up, just what you don't need but pleased to hear it is fixable!! Boooo at the bill though :mad:

So pleased to see Buddy is full of beans :D:D That warms my heart :) Have a good weekend you guys, the holidays are nearly here :D xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
Hope to hear some good antics that dear Buddy does this weekend. We so love hearing all the cute things he does. Hope he continues to feel good and stay symptom free. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

I got my car back in time for the weekend! YAY!!!:D Buddy's tummy was a little funny this morning, but he seems to be okay now.:) He is on patrol right now. That involves checking all the lizard holes and yapping at the birds who invade his air space. He takes his job VERY seriously!;):D It is heartwarming to see this wobbly little dog going on with his business as usual.:) If Buddy makes it until tomorrow, it will be three weeks (21 days) without a head tremor or hypoglycemic attack!:D Wednesday is my last day of work for the summer! 3 work days to go! Have a great weekend angels :D:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Kathy,

That is great news that the tremors have subsided and Buddy is acting like "the mighty lizard hunter." Sending loving hugs to you both, Lori

[Budsters Mom]

Lori,
On another thread, you mentioned using Slippery Elm bark for Harley because the pepcid seemed to make him nauseous. Would you please elaborate on that? Where do you get it?
What are the side effects?
Allergy interractions?
Dosages?
Any information would be helpful. Buddy is on so many meds right now. Trilostane, Benadryl, prednisone, and Pepcid. He weighs 16 pounds. No wonder he has a touchy stomach! Thanks,
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Awesome news Kathy!! So glad that Buddy is running around his feisty self. :)

Have a good weekend! Whoo hooo car back too!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[frijole]

Kathy, I can finallly help you! Hurrah.

I used Slippery Elm on Annie - long story she had thousands of puss filled sores lining her esophagus when we did an endoscopy. Anyway I know she had something causing these ulcer like things and it kept her from eating - or so I assume. This stuff is easy to use and very safe. I googled it and found a video of a vet that called it her secret weapon. I had kept this information on it so I could share with others. Hope it answers your questions. Kim



*Slippery Soup™ / Slippery Elm Tea. I use this herb more than any other in my practice! It provides superb relief, and has kept many patients from hospitalization. It is a soothing nutritive herb which is perfectly suited for sensitive or inflamed mucous membrane linings in the digestive system. The bark contains mucilage and tannins that act as demulcent, emollient, protectorant, and astringent. You might think of it as a soothing internal bandage coating the digestive tract for its entire length. Imagine the relief for your pet to have a jelly-like coating soothing in an eosophagus (food pipe) burned by acrid vomitus, or in an ulcerated colon. This herb makes a huge difference. It is easy to make and has a very bland taste.


ü Slippery Soup™ Preparation and Administration: You can find the herb in a dry powder form in capsules, as dried leaf in tea bags, or as loose dried leaf in the “bulk” products section of many health food stores. Any of these forms will do. Do not use the tincture (which already comes as a liquid in a dropper bottle). It may help in a few cases but it will not have all the healing physical properties of the brewed tea. The same goes for mixing the dried herb directly into the food. It will not give all the benefits of the brewed tea.

1. Simple Tea Method. You’ll prepare this medication just like a tea you might drink yourself. First, put a heaping teaspoon of dried herb in a coffee mug, and add 8-12 oz of boiling water or diluted broth. Allow to cool. If using capsules, open them up, discarding the shells, and note that it may take a bit less to get good results.

2. Long-Brew Method. To get more out of your supply or to create a thicker medicine use the same amounts of herb and water listed above and simmer for 10-20 minutes.

3. The resultant liquid, once cooled, should be somewhat thicker than water. If it is as thin as water double the dry herb amount next time, or try the long-brew method. If it is thick like jelly, that’s fine. You can use half of the dosages listed below. Do not worry about any loose herb in the liquid. It does not have to be filtered out. This infusion or decoction will keep for about 5 days in the fridge.

4. Add the liquid to the food at mealtimes, or add to the water bowl, or give as a treat. The goal is 4 times per day, but even once daily will provide some relief. I hate to force feed anything. But this is one treatment that is probably worth it if you must. If force feeding is your only choice use the stove top brewing method and aim for a thicker, jellylike consistency so you can administer less physical amount for the same beneficial effect.

5. Palatability Tricks. To give Slippery Soup™ as a treat (my preferred way!) you can do several things. You can mix the liquid 50/50 with broth, soup, a favorite canned food, milk, tuna juice, or baby food. It may not smell great to you, but these soups are highly appreciated by pets! You can also add it to yogurt or cottage cheese if dairy is not an issue.

6. Dosages.

Cats and Dogs under 25 lbs 1-2 Tablespoons

Dogs 25-50 lbs 2-4 Tablespoons

Dogs 50 lbs and up ¼ to ½ cup


ü Epilogue I. Slippery Elm is a very safe herb. It can literally be a life saver by preventing dehydration from continued vomiting or diarrhea. It is virtually impossible to overdose, and it can be used for extended periods of time. However, if you find your pet needs this treatment for several weeks and the symptoms still reappear when you attempt to wean off or discontinue, this is a sign of significant chronic disease and you should seek professional veterinary care.

ü Epilogue II. These first aid guidelines are solid recommendations for humans as well. This includes the Slippery Elm information. You can count human adults as “Dogs 50 lbs and up” for dosing.

--------------

To give internally, mix about 1/4 teaspoon of Slippery Elm bark powder with cold water for every 10 pounds of body weight. For very small dogs, it is fine to use the same 1/4 teaspoon dose. The bulk powder may be very fluffy, so pack it down as much as possible to measure it. Alternatively, use 1/2 capsule (per 10 pounds), opened and the contents mixed with water. Slippery Elm powder will absorb many times its own weight in water, so be sure to add enough to make a moderately thick gruel. This gruel can be given before meals by syringe or eyedropper, or added to baby food, canned food, or a homemade diet. It has a slightly sweet taste and is usually well-tolerated by cats and dogs when mixed with food. Give a dose 5 minutes before meals for sore throat, and before or with meals for digestive tract problems, such as inflammatory bowel disease, until symptoms resolve.

------------------

Slippery Elm (Ulmus fulva) is an exception to the fears and cautions surrounding the use of herbs in animals. It is very safe and non-toxic. The part of the tree used is the inner bark, which is soft and stringy. Simplest to use is the powdered form, which can be purchased in bulk, or pre-packed in capsules, at most health food stores. It is readily available over the Internet from herb suppliers.

Herbalists attribute many wonderful healing properties to Slippery Elm: demulcent (soothing, mucilage-forming), emollient (soothing and protective for skin), nutritive (providing specific food nutrients), tonic (promoting healthy function of one or more body systems), and astringent (constricting, binding or drying effect). It can be used both internally and externally. Slippery Elm is one of the herbs used in the original formulation of "Essiac," an herbal brew widely promoted as a cancer-fighter.

In the gastro-intestinal tract, Slippery Elm acts directly. It can be thought of as a sort of natural "Pepto-Bismol." (Pepto-Bismol itself should not be used because it contains salicylate, a.k.a. aspirin). Its mucilage content coats, soothes, and lubricates the mucus membranes lining the digestive tract. Slippery Elm is an excellent treatment for ulcers, gastritis, colitis, and other inflammatory bowel problems. It is high in fiber, and so helps normalize intestinal action; it can be used to relieve both diarrhea and constipation. It may also help alleviate nausea and vomiting in pets suffering from non-GI illnesses, such as kidney disease. A syrup made from Slippery Elm Bark can be used to help heal mouth ulcers from all causes (see recipe below).

Slippery Elm is said to relieve inflammation of virtually any mucus membrane, and has been used in the treatment of inflammatory conditions of the lungs (bronchitis, asthma), kidneys, bladder (cystitis, FLUTD symptoms), throat (tonsillitis), and joints (arthritis).

Slippery Elm contains many nutrients (carbohydrates, protein, fat, ascorbic acid, beta-carotene, calcium, and several trace minerals) that can be beneficial for recuperating pets, and it may stay down when other foods are not tolerated. It is known as a "survival" food; George Washington and his troops survived for days during the bitter winter at Valley Forge eating nothing but gruel made from Slippery Elm bark. However, Slippery Elm may interfere with the absorption of certain minerals and pharmaceuticals, so is best given separately from any concurrent drug therapy.

In the case of cystitis (bladder inflammation), Slippery Elm is thought to soothe the bladder lining. However, it is somewhat high in magnesium, so may be contraindicated in dogs who have an active infection with an elevated urinary pH, where struvite crystal formation may be a risk. (In cats, urinary tract infections are very rarely bacterial.) Slippery Elm bark contains natural pentosans, a class of complex sugars that contains the same compound found in the drug "Elmiron®,"the major pain-relieving treatment for interstitial cystitis (IC) in women. Pentosan has been used by the pharmaceutical industry as an anti-coagulant and anti-inflammatory for more than 40 years. (Anti-coagulant effects are not seen with normal oral administration.) Since bladder disease in cats is very similar to that in women, slippery elm may be especially beneficial for our feline friends. Small, frequent dosages of pentosan has been shown in humans to be more effective than single large doses.

Externally, a soothing paste of Slippery Elm powder (mix the powder with a little cold water) can be used as a poultice for hot spots, insect burns, rashes, scratches, ulcerated areas, or other shallow wounds. Native Americans used Slippery Elm bark to stop bleeding. It forms a natural "bandage" that can be left in place for several hours, if you can convince your dog to leave it alone! Moisten with water to remove it.

To give internally, mix about 1/4 teaspoon of Slippery Elm bark powder with cold water for every 10 pounds of body weight. For very small dogs, it is fine to use the same 1/4 teaspoon dose. The bulk powder may be very fluffy, so pack it down as much as possible to measure it. Alternatively, use 1/2 capsule (per 10 pounds), opened and the contents mixed with water. Slippery Elm powder will absorb many times its own weight in water, so be sure to add enough to make a moderately thick gruel. This gruel can be given before meals by syringe or eyedropper, or added to baby food, canned food, or a homemade diet. It has a slightly sweet taste and is usually well-tolerated by cats and dogs when mixed with food. Give a dose 5 minutes before meals for sore throat, and before or with meals for digestive tract problems, such as inflammatory bowel disease, until symptoms resolve.

[Budsters Mom]

Kim, you help me by just being there!!!:) You don't need a particular subject to address in order to pop in and chat with me. I always love to hear from you, I think of you often.:) You previously said that Buddy and I were stuck with you for eternity. So you better start popping in more then!:D

Having said that, thank you for the Slippery Elm Bark information. Lori mentioned it on another thread and I thought it might help Buddy. That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
Hugs,
Kathy

[Harley PoMMom]

I see that our sweet Kim has provided the info on SEB for you. :) I just love that stuff, when Harley didn't want to eat I could get him to drink the Slippery Soup.

Pepcid AC, for reasons that I don't know, can cause nausea in a dog. My Harley definitely got an upset tummy from it but never from the SEB.

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I think Buddy is receiving part of his miracle since he has had no head tremors. It is wonderful to hear he is back on patrol. Those pesky lizards better watch out! I use SEB on Tipper as she has acid reflux. I am glad I read that posting sent to you as I was just mixing a little of the dry powder in her food. I know now to steep it like tea, which is what it is. How could I be so dumb?? Tipper has the acid reflux, and sometimes at nite gastro noises and tummy aches, so that is what I use it for. Blessings
Patti

[frijole]

:) I'm always reading - just not much of a chatterer. :) Very impressed with Buddy's progress. Glad you got your car back too. Kim

[Budsters Mom]

It doesn't have to be a long chat Kim;) your last message was perfect! ;) Happy Weekend:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[frijole]

Too funny. Heads up my sis is coming to town for the next 2 1/2 weeks (she's a teacher in AZ) and next weekend we have soccer tournaments (niece and 2 nephews) FR-SUN and then the next weekend the 2 of us are taking the 3 kids on a vacation to the Black Hills so I'll be gone almost a week! Sure hope they behave! Yikes what were we thinking? They are 7, 9 and 12. OMG I'm scared. hahaha

[Budsters Mom]

Kim,
See, it's not that hard to chat!!!!!!!!!!;):D Have a wonderful visit with your sister. If the munchkins act up on vacation, look around like you have no idea who those unruly monsters belong to. It works! I do it on field trips all the time! LOL :D:D

[Budsters Mom]

I found Slippery Elm at the health food store. They only had it in capsule form. According the instructions below, capsules will work. However Magnesium Stearate is listed on the bottle as another ingredient. Is that safe for dogs?????

"Alternatively, use 1/2 capsule (per 10 pounds), opened and the contents mixed with water. Slippery Elm powder will absorb many times its own weight in water, so be sure to add enough to make a moderately thick gruel"

Thanks guys,
Kathy

[frijole]

The stuff I bought at a health food store was not in capsules. I do remember it talking about the gruel.. but any time I made it - it never got that thick. I followed the recipe that was cooked on stove and then cooled and kept in frig. Maybe google it and see if they all have that stuff in it? Sorry I can't answer that question... off to mow the lawn now. ;):D;)

[Budsters Mom]

WARNING!!!:eek::eek:

Magnesium Stearate is bad for dogs. Check your supplements!! It is often listed as an other ingredients. Article below.........

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2013/03/dont-give-your-dog-supplements-that.html

It was listed on the bottle of Slippery Elm that I purchased today. I didn't know what is was.
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

If you order or get the powder, not in pill form, then it shouldn't have that in it. It seems to be for capsules.
I have never bought it or used it so I'm not sure.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I found the slippery elm bark in powdered form online. This is what I ordered from Vitacost. I hope it's the right thing. If not, I'm throwing $36 down the drain.:( There were other cheaper ones available, but they were not organic.

Starwest Botanicals Slippery Elm Bark Powder Organic -- 1 lb

[Trish]

Good Morning Kathy! I bought that powdered SEB from a health food store, mine just in a plastic bag and labelled "Slipper Elm Powder USA" dunno if it is organic or not?? I tried it in the mixture but Flynn was pretty sick at the time it was when we were dealing with the whole swab debacle and he vomited so I did not give him anymore. But that of course was more likely to be due to him being unwell with the swab so think I might give it another try if we have a flare up of tummy issues.

Hope it helps little Buddy :) I need to get my a into g now and get this house tidied as a friend just called to say she is coming to pick me up for brunch and this place is a mess :eek::eek: It is pouring rain again, I hope it fines up so we can get out for a walk with Mr Flynn this arvo, in the meantime he is going to his Nan and G'dads for some spoiling while I go out :D:D Hope you and Buddy have a good day today! :)

[frijole]

Kathy, Many of us have used it and love it. I believe Leslie has. Glynda had success for sure and I think Lori used it. Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Thank you Kim. I just wanted to make sure that I ordered the right thing. I'm going to return the capsules. I did not open them. I'll wait for my online order to arrive, then make the "slippery soup" according to your directions. I was reading about slippery Elm Bark on a medical web-site. It's stated to give it two hours before or after other medications. Buddy has some meds with his breakfast and dinner. That means I would have to give him the slippery soup at other times during the day. The article stated that SEB puts a protective coating on the stomach. That could keep other medications from being absorbed properly. That is why it should not be given close to medication times. Does that seem right to you? Buddy is on smaller meals more often anyway due to his hypoglycemia. So that will work out okay. I am just hoping that he's not allergic to this stuff. ;) Otherwise, I am going to be left with a pound of it.:p Kathy

[frijole]

Yes that is right about the medications. I know it gets so complicated...I had 2 sick ones for a while and I didn't have a free minute and I had a cabinet filled with nothing but dog meds and supplements. It's hard to keep track. Fingers crossed that Buddy isn't allergic.

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I hope the Slippery Elm Bark works for Buddy. Now that I know you are supposed to steep it, I will make that for Tipper. I get mine at Vitacost also. How many of those lizards bit the dust now that the mighty lizard hunter is back on duty? Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Kathy, wait a minute, I am positive I read somewhere that you cannot take Slippery Elm if you are allergic to certain things, which is why my bottle is still sitting in the cupboard unopened and why I have not givene it to Zoe since I know she is allergic to grass and I dont know what else.


Let me go look for it.

[addy]

As with any drug or supplement, there is always a chance of an allergic reaction. Slippery elm should be avoided by anyone who has a known allergy to slippery elm or other plants in the Ulmaceae family. An allergic skin rash has been seen when slippery elm is used topically, but this is considered unusual.

http://www.britannica.com/related-topics/613260/related-topics-to-Ulmaceae

I know Buddy has severe allergies so it may be fine but I just wanted to make sure you knew. I have severe allergies too, the other day I tried to trim one of my flowering bushes and I had an asthma allergic attack, I never knew I was allergic to that shrub. So that is why I never took the pills I bought for me and hiesitated to give it to Zoe. Of course now I can even manage a two hour window to give it to Zoe so that is another story:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

[Budsters Mom]

Thank you so much Addy:) Yes, I am concerned about the allergy aspect. Buddy is allergic to many things. I don't even know what many of them are. He had an allergic reaction one time to a booster shot and almost died. Yes, he is allergic to grass. He is also allergic to ragweed and Daisy flowers. That is why he's unable to use milk thistle. He has food, environmental, medication and grass allergies, to name a few. Giving Buddy anything is definitely a risk.:o I am so sorry to hear about your asthma attack. I have a friend that had one lately and ended up in the hospital. I hope you're doing well now. I understand about Zoe not having a two hour window window right now to try it anyway. I am almost there with Buddy. Love to you and your sweet babies and congrats. On Kate's graduation. You must be very proud!
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Addy,
I checked out your link. There are literally thousands of plants in that Ulmaceae plant family. This definitely is a concern for Buddy.:( It looks like I'll be using the slippery elm myself. ;) Allergies severely limit what I'm able to do for Buddy. I hear about something that could help and then I hit the allergy wall. It is frustrating!:( This is not the first time this has happened! Thank you so much for the heads up and for watching out for us!:)
Hugs,
Kathy

[knitbunnie]

Have you tried Zofran (ondansetron) for Buddy's upset tummy? Our Davis vet gave Pia a bottle of Zofran tablets for nausea, because when she was on Clavamox it upset her tummy. It really calmed down the rumblings. I used to be a peds oncology nurse, and we gave Zofran to our patients before chemotherapy, and it worked great for them, too.

[Budsters Mom]

Good morning angels:)
I am having one of those mornings that we suffer through. The morning starts up normally, then everything goes south very quickly.
Buddy was fine until after breakfast and meds this morning. Shortly after he ate, he went into a full-blown allergy attack wheezing and struggling to breathe and had an upset stomach. He was laying in his bed moaning/crying oh his exhales. When I went over to soothe him, he was also having a head tremor. The first one in 3 weeks. I immediately went and filled his syringe with corn syrup per doctors instructions. I gave him a little under 2 cc. The head tremor stopped about 20 seconds later. It was definitely caused by a hypoglycemic attack! The wheezing stopped shortly after. His stomach is still touchy, but he is now exhausted and resting quietly . His morning meds often screw up his stomach, but the hypoglycemia triggered everything else or at least appears that way. I was not meant to go back to bed after his breakfast this morning. It is Sunday after all!:o Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there!:) If all of our pup had dads like you, we would have very happy pups indeed!:)
Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

Thanks Bonnie, I will look into that. Pepcid doesn't always work real well and I'm a little afraid to try the slippery bark. It's his meds cocktail with breakfast that screws up his stomach and no wonder. He takes Pepcid 30 minutes before breakfast. With breakfast he takes trilostane, Benadryl, and prednisone. If I was taking all that crap, my stomach would be screwed up every morning too!;) I tried to eliminate the Benadryl, because he was taking the prednisone. I was hoping that the prednisone would keep his allergies at bay. I skipped the Benadryl yesterday and this morning he had a full-blown allergy attack. So, we're back on the Benadryl.:( There are so many challenges with our pups!

[mcdavis]

Really sorry to hear Buddy's having a bad day - hope he's improving and the day goes on.
Not sure if it's been mentioned before but have you tried a little bit of pumpkin with his meds? Hamish developed a sensitive tummy and we found just a small amount in his food helped, and I also used it to 'hide' pills.

[frijole]

Does he take Pepcid or Pepcid AC? I ask because AC is the one that works with dogs. Wow sounds like he had a real rough morning. That was interesting that the tremor went away so quickly after giving him the sugar. Now you know how to handle that! Good work. Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Kim, I meant to say Pepcid AC. Buddy takes a half a tablet 5mg. Every 12 hours. It isn't doing a whole lot of good! Not only did Buddy's tremor go away so quickly after the corn syrup, his allergy/asthma attack stopped right after that! It seems that the stress of the tremor triggered his allergy attack/wheezing. His stomach has settled and he's absolutely fine now, until he has more meds at dinner and we start all over again.:( He was just yapping at a lizard taunting him on the porch!:D. There's a window of couple hours where he actually feels good.;)
Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

I don't know what to do. If I take him off the prednisone his mobility declines. If I take him off the trilostane, his Cushing's symptoms will return and he'll be miserable. However, if I keep him on both, he has tummy issues. If I try slippery Elm, I risk an allergic reaction. I am out of ideas. This allergy thing sucks! It limits my options. :confused:
Kathy

[labblab]

Kathy, are you sure the crying/respiratory symptoms you saw this morning were truly an allergic attack? According to this link, they can also be symptoms of hypoglycemia in addition to the head tremors:

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Health/Hypoglycemia/Symptoms.aspx

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

No Marianne, I don't know if Buddy's respiratory distress was an allergy attack or just a symptom of hypoglycemia. He was wheezing just like he does when he has an allergy attack though. He snapped out of it really quickly after I gave him the corn syrup. First the tremor went away, then his wheezing stopped also. The crying was definitely caused by the head tremor and the head tremor was caused by hypoglycemia. That would make the crying a symptom of hypoglycemia also. The crying stopped when the head tremor stopped.
Kathy

[labblab]

Just thought I'd mention this since you were hoping to discontinue the benadryl. You still may be able to do so if the attack you witnessed really wasn't allergic in nature.

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

We skipped the Benadryl yesterday and Buddy was fine. He was wheezing when he woke up this morning. That was long before breakfast and his hypoglycemic attack. That occurred about an hour after breakfast.

Marianne - Do you think I should try the Slippery Elm bark to help settle Buddy's stomach or not, since allergies are an issue?
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Oh crappy morning Kathy. :( I'm sorry Buddy had an episode after doing so good without them. Drat that he is getting such an upset tummy from everything.
Would a tad bit of pumpkin help you think?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Aw poor Buddy, hope his tummy gets better soon, so hard to get their little tummies settled! We need him better for all those sneaky lizards :)

[doxiesrock912]

Kathy,
ask the vet about Tylan (Tylosin) powder. Daisy has been on it for two and a half days and it has worked wonders!

[Budsters Mom]

Valerie, Buddy doesn't have diarrhea. His stomach just gets gassy and uncomfortable because of all the meds. I think Tylan powder is more for diarrhea, isn't it? Buddy's stools are fine. Knock on wood;)
Hugs,
Kathy

[doxiesrock912]

Kathy,
I wonder if Fortiflora will help?

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
So sorry to hear Buddy had head tremors, it just makes me feel awful that this happens to him. It is good to know what is causing them though. I can tell you from Tipper's very allergic history, that I use Slippery Elm with her and she has had no problems. Also I wanted to say that the Pepcid AC does give some dogs a terrible tummy ache, and does at times do that to Tipper. Could this be the problem with Buddy's stomach? Have you tried any yogurt with Buddy? If you think it is just gas, Curtail or Beano are safe, as the Vet from Newmans Own told me. That really stinks to drop 36.00 on Slippery Elm and not be able to use it.
After all we have to have the mighty lizard hunter in prime shape, so those lizards aren't taunting him. God Bless You Both
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

I gave Buddy a spoon of pumpkin with his dinner last night. I was hoping that it might help his stomach settle somewhat. Buddy was up from 2:00 AM on. Not only was his tummy screwed up with rumbling and burping, he also was wheezing, sneezing and had a runny nose. His sneezing and runny nose continued this morning. I gave him another spoon of pumpkin at breakfast. Maybe I shouldn't have. Could pumpkin be another allergy? It's possible with the allergy king!!! I am at loss abut what to try. The meds upset his stomach and Pepcid AC does not help. I'm worried about possible allergy interactions with slippery Elm bark. I ordered a pound of it, but now I'm afraid to try it. It's getting to the point where I may break down try a very small dose anyway. Yes, it's risky, but I don't know what else to do! Any thoughts....
Hugs,
Kathy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Kathy,

I had to laugh when I read you bought a POUND of SEB! :p That will last you a lifetime! I bought a 4 oz bottle in 2011 and still have plenty left to last a while... and I use it often! ;) If you don't want to use it with Buddy and it hasn't been opened, I would try to return it asap.

I hope you find something that will help the little guy. Bless his heart.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Trixie]

Kathy,
I'm just now catching up on the weekend posts and I am sorry it was a rough one for you and Buddy! :(
Darn it...after so many days of no tremors. At least you know now why he gets them and the corn syrup did the trick to make it stop.
I wish I had the answer to the tummy trouble. Trixie has terrible plumbing noises in the evening and at bedtime...very, very noisy gurgling and it scares me because it's loud and she seems uncomfortable. Luckily the PepcidAC seems to help her a little bit with that. She has that same gas and bloating issue every night along with all the noises, it hasn't made any problems with her poops or appetite however. During the day she seems so much better but once the evening sets in, it starts.
I hope Buddy is having a better day today. Really wish I could help with a constructive idea.
Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
I think Trilo is just hard on little tummies. ;) Adding prednisone to the mix has helped Buddy's mobility, but his little tummy suffers from all the meds. :( Thanks or checking in. I hope Trixie is doing well.
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Okay, so the pumpkin doesn't seem to really work for him if he is huffing and puffing like that. Well, did it help his stomach at all?
Anything is possible and Buddy has so many allergies, another one might not be that big of a surprise, but it sure does make things difficult.
I guess just keep trying to find that something that will work for him. Have you asked your vet about it maybe?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Yes Sharlene, Buddy's tummy seems to be a little better today since starting the pumpkin. His allergies however, are out-of-control! Are they caused by the pumpkin? They could be. They could also be caused by a thousand other things. :confused:That's the way it is with allergies! I'm going to continue the pumpkin for the next couple of days and see if his allergies improve. If they do, his problem is not with the pumpkin. If they worsen or he starts licking at his paws or scratching, I will assume it's the pumpkin, stop giving it and add it to his allergy list. Such is the plan!;) You'd think a macro-tumor would be enough!:(
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Well, you know Buddy, he is an original. :) I hope it is not the pumpkin if it is helping his tummy.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Crikey Buddy, you start behaving and limit yourself to one problem a day young man (or even better, NONE), your poor Mom will be going grey!! Kathy, I was pleased to hear the tummy settled today, be hoping for another good report tomorrow from the Budster. Thanks your support on Flynny's thread, you really are a doll you know xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :)

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I know about part of what you are dealing with, as Tipper can be allergic to anything also. Once when she was about 2 years old, she started swelling up like a pig, she got all these raised welts like about as big as your little finger on her body, We went to the emergency . She was struggling to breath as I was driving way over the speed limit to get there. They gave her a shot of epinephrine and I had to put her in their sink, and start with cool water as she got a dangerously high fever. We got it under control, but scared the daylights out of me. I have kept an epi pen on hand in case of this. The only thing is they are so darn expensive, and go out of date rather quickly. Tipper actually gets anaphylaxis so it gets bad. It is terrible having to deal with the macro issue and all the allergy stuff also. Never found out what caused it. I always keep a bottle of liquid Benadryl in the house and in my purse as she has had other episodes of this. I hope you find out if Buddy is allergic to the pumpkin. It could be all the stuff flying around in the air too, that is one thing with these allergies you never know what can set them off. Blessings
Patti

[Fellasmom]

Kathy
Just wanted to say hello and that I'm thinking of you and Buddy.So frustrating with all the allergies-poor Buddy and poor Mom!!Glad his tummy issues are resolving and hopefully he is not allergic to pumpkin.Glad to hear that you are seeing improvements with the combo drug.I've been trying to catch up with the threads here so I may have missed something but I thought I read that you have determined that Buddy's tremors are a result of a hypoglycemic episode?I was just curious as I thought the tremors are what led the docs to suspect a macro.I'm glad that the corn syrup worked so well.Buddy must be so happy that you'll have the whole summer to spend with him and it must be a huge relief to you!Hope Buddy is having a good day and that you get the meds/allergies straightened out!
Patty

[Budsters Mom]

Patty,
It is all a little confusing trying to pick up with my thread now. As it turns out, the tremors are caused by reactive hypoglycemia episodes. Buddy's advancing neural deficits led to his macro diagnosis. Allergies and stomach issues also add complications. You are pretty much caught up now.:)

Buddy's stomach is settling (with the pumpkin) and we both had a more rested night. His allergies (runny nose, sneezing, wheezing) are still running rapid. I'm really hoping that he's not allergic to the pumpkin! :pNo scratching or feet licking as of yet. My Summer break officially begins on Thursday:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[addy]

Happy Summer Break.

Sorry if I scared you about the SEB, I just wanted you to know, maybe it will be fine. I know one of our work pups takes pred for his seasonal allergies and it helps him. I was hoping the pred would help Buddy's allergies too as a side benefit.

Maybe the grass pollen is really bad now. I get really bad when the grass pollen is in high gear, usually lasts here in WI until mid July.

[Budsters Mom]

No Addy, You did not scare me. Thank you for alerting me! ;):)I need all the help I can get, as Buddy is a highly allergic little man. Once I get a handle on this bout, I might try the Slippery Elm in a very small amount. I need to make sure that the pumpkin isn't causing his current allergy symptoms first. You know how important it is to test each new thing individually. I hope the pumpkin is okay, because it has helped his tummy settle with all the meds. Thanks again Addy. Always clue me in when you think there is something I should know. It is always appreciated. :D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Budsters Mom]

It looks like the pumpkin is a no go. I gave Buddy a little pumpkin with his dinner and he started wheezing a few minutes later.:( His allergy symptoms have gotten worse since I started the pumpkin. It is supposed to be one of the safe foods for dogs who need a hypoallergenic diet. Tell that to Buddy, would ya!:( I find something that helps to settle his stomach and he can't have it because of allergies. FRUSTRATED and CONFUSED:confused:
Kathy

[Harley PoMMom]

Hey Kathy, what about ginger or ginger root? It is known for calming an upset tummy.

[Budsters Mom]

Lori,
Do you buy it in capsules or as a spice to sprinkle on food? I'll Google it and see what I can find out. Thanks,
Kathy

[knitbunnie]

I am sorry to hear that the pumpkin has caused an allergic reaction. It seem so darned unfair. I'll have a chat with Buddy if you'll have one with Pia!

[Trixie]

Gee Buddy....no pumpkin for you? Poor guy he really is having a bout with his allergies isn't he? You said his tummy has been unsettled... is it bloating and gas? He doesn't have diarrhea or vomiting does he? How has his appetite been?
It's too bad the PepcidAC doesn't help him..we have really good luck with that.
Ginger is supposed to be good for digestion and allergies but I have no idea how one might give it to a dog-or if it would be the right thing. Wish I knew what might help! :confused:

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Barbara,
His tummy gets upsets due to all of his meds. Hi tummy rumbles, he burps constantly and he's unable to settle to lie down and sleep. He is eating normally and his poops are good. It is more an indigestion thing.the pumpkin has really helped with that, but his nose runs continuously, he wheezes and struggles to breathe. I find something to help with one problem, then another develops from it. Allergies are a huge pain in the butt!
Kathy