Calcinosis Cutis and Cushings (Peety has passed)

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Wow, this is quite overwhelming. Last month I didn't even know what Cushings was, now I am immersed in so many details my head in spinning. My 11 almost 12 y/o18 lb Shi-Tzu was just diagnoised with Calcinosis Cutis and we are waiting to do the test for Cushings. His poor lil body is covered in calcium deposits and I feel like I am loosing this battle. He is so miserable and we have not started him on any treatments as yet. Complicated, but His first Vet, was trying to treat the outbreak of sores and started him on Predisone. Yikes!!!! We saw no improvements so he referred me to a dermatologist. She did biopsys and diagnoised him. We are now stepping down off of predisone.

I have been on-line every day trying to find an alternative to the chemicals suggested to treat Cushings. I have decided to do a natural approach and found a couple of places on-line that I am looking into. I am seeing my Vet tomorrow and plan to discuss this with him. There is even a ph # of a vet in Ga that I plan to call as he was highly encouraged by this natural approach. My lil guy is so wonderful, so sweet, so playful and so young for his age. This disease has taken so much out of him as me as well. I look at him and cry, because his once beautiful skin and coat(his skirt goes to the floor) are ravaged by this horrific disease.

I have been reading different posts, but have not seen one with the combination of Calcinosis Cutis with Cushings. Does anyone have any knowledge first hand and can offer any input.

My lil guy is depending on me to make the right decisions for his care. I need to get him on something asap so I hope to be able to make a decision in the next day or so.

Right now he has selective eating, drinks a ton of water, pees alot, wears an E-collar all the time now, because he scratches so much. I was giving him benadryl, but it didn't seem to help. I'm using neosporin on the really bad places. And I am using an aloe product on the ones not so bad. He's a good sport, he tolerates anything I need to do to him, but this just isn't right. No one should ever have to suffer like this. I Just want to see him happy again.

Anyone with any info on this combination of diseases?

[doxiesrock912]

I am not familiar with that specific disease, but Cushing's reeks havoc with our furlets' immune systems. I wish you luck and would be curious as to what information you find out about natural treatments. I've been told that none are truly effective.

Good luck and I hope the little one feels better soon!

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks for responding. I wish I were only dealing with Cushings. This just complicates it. Sure, I will let you know what I find out about natural treatments.

[doxiesrock912]

Thank you, Daisy is newly diagnosed and the vet gave her twice the amount of Trilostane recommended for a dog her size. I've since stopped the meds and we have an appointment at Cornell on Friday.

Good luck!

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

We've had a number of members who have dealt with calcinosis cutis and it is a bear to get under control. Calcinosis cutis is virtually pathognomonic for Canine Cushing's syndrome. In other words, if a dog has calcinosis cutis, you pretty much know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the dog has cushing's. Excess cortisol screws with just about every metabolic function, including retarded calcium absorption resulting in high levels of calcium in the blood. Only a small number of dogs will be unfortunate enough to eventually develop calcinosis cutis. The primary objective when dealing with this is to get your dog on one of two only effective treatments, Lysodren (Mitotane) or Vetoryl (Trilostane). Unfortunately, there are no natural treatments that reduces cortisol and with your boy being in agony, the sooner you can get the cortisol levels down, the better his prognosis will be.

Do you know for sure that your dog had calcinosis cutis before the first vet put him on prednisone? If not, then he could have iatrogenic cushing's and the only treatment is to get him weaned off of prednisone. Was he experiencing symptoms associated with cushing's before the prednisone? Dermatologists are usually very experienced with cushing's and are usually very well versed on the two treatments I mentioned above. I would suggest you stick with the derm vet as she is much more knowledgable and experienced with this condition. A holistic vet may prescribe something to be given with Lysodren or Vetoryl to help boost the immune system but it would be adjunct treatment only.

One of our moderators, Angela, has first hand experience with calcinosis cutis and I'm sure she will be dropping in to share her knowledge. I do want to mention that Lysodren may be the most appropriate treatment as Vetoryl is known to increase some of the other adrenal hormones which can exacerbate calcinosis cutis. Dr. David Bruyette, an expert endocrine specialist whose first choice of treatment is Vetoryl, has said that he has not had a good response in resolution of calciniosis cutis with Vetoryl.

I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here but I'm glad you found us. We've all had the head spins and I promise it will subside as you learn more about the disease and its treatment.

Glynda

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi and welcome.

Our Hungarian Vizsla, Sabre, had calcinosis cutis and was treated with Lysodren for two years until he passed away in 2010. As Glynda has pointed out ... calcinosis cutis is pretty much a diagnosis for cushings.

I can understand your want to "treat naturally" but the only way to get the calcinosis cutis "under control" is to bring his cortisol levels down. To do this your dog requires treatment with either Lysodren or Vetoryl. My personal opinion is that Lysodren is the better treatment option for a dog with calcinosis cutis for the reasons that Glynda has pointed out. Having said this there are some members who have used Vetoryl.

Things that I can suggest are .... medicated shampoos (didn't really work for us - it just inflamed the calcinosis cutis), oatmeal shampoos (didn't have a lot of impact), betadine on areas that are not open to help dry up areas, scuffing off areas with epiotic (not sure whether this is available in US but is actually an ear cleaner), antihistamine (hit and miss and is dependent on the dog), additives - evening primrose oil, flaxseed oil and fish oil. We always tried to be proactive with antibiotics so at the first sign of infection the vet prescribed them. We also used T-Shirts or jackets to keep everything covered so he wouldn't try and get at it too much. For us it was a matter of trying to "manage" the calcinosis cutis and try and stop infection whilst his cortisol levels came down. It does get worse before it gets better and it does take some time. From recollection it took 4 to 6 months before his hair grew back and the calcinosis cutis was "just there". He always had plates of calcium deposits on his body.

You can do a search for "calcinosis cutis" from the menu along the top to find others who have dealt with it.

If you have any further queries ... please ask away.

Angela

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately calcinosis cutis is a real bugger to try to get under control. Once it develops from what we have seen on the forum here, the only thing that gives a chance of getting under control is getting the cortisol levels down. All the natural options seem to solely treat the symptoms of cushings without doing anything to lower the cortisol itself. The only way to tell if the cortisol is going up or down is via the ACTH test.
It's an awful situation to deal with as you really don't want it to get worse. The worse it gets the harder to ever get rid of it.
Feel free to ask any questions you might have as we have had members dealing with it on here.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[jackiev]

Hi Petey's fur mom :) My name is Jackie and my French Bulldog, Ugga, has Calcinosis Cutis. We treat with Vetoryl because Ugga has other health issues and takes multiple medications. Honestly, the Vetoryl hasn't done much as far as the CC is concerned. Lysodren is not an option for us so we take Ugga for acupuncture. We're having a lot of success with it. He still takes his Vetoryl as it helped alleviate his other symptoms and it keeps his Cortisol levels down but the acupuncture has been a great compliment to it. It's worth looking into, in my opinion. When it's been really bad we've used Chlorexidine Shampoos, Humilac sprays, and Betadine. He also takes 1200mg fish oil every day. Also, anytime he started to scratch himself open, we got him on an antibiotic right away. Good luck! Hugs to you and Petey :)

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Jackiev, thanks for your input. I'm sorry we are dealing with this same horrific disease on our lil ones. I'm kinda at a point where I am not encouraged by much of anything. I really wanted to find a natural remedy, but so far I have not found anything and I am at a loss and he continues to get worse, So...... My dermatologist has put him on DMSO. Not happy after reading the scarey research I did. But I was assured this is medical grade and it is "somewhat "safe". I started the treatments very carefully and will monitor him. She told me I should start to see the calcium deposits on his skin be absorbed into the skin and over time we should get it under control.

We can't do the Cushing's test for another 3-4 weeks as he will be taking his last predisone on Fri. and we need his system to be clear before more bloodwork can be done. Nonetheless I will do whatever I can for him. I just want his fun sweet personality back. I just hope I am making the right decisions. He is wearing a cone all the time now, except for meals and walks and he is wearing a t-shirt to curb scratching. His hair is falling out more every day and it makes me cry to see him like this. I bathe him in oatmeal and teatree oil and I use an aloe vera product that has Nopal cactus and Flax seed extract. It seems to calm it down. Sometimes he sleeps all night, sometimes he cries and then of course I do the same. But I try to stay close to him so he feels secure and loved. And I know he does. I just wish I could do more for him. Based on my readings, we probably will be dealing with this for a while.
Have you seen any noticible improvement in the skin since you started the meds? How long have you been on them?

Good luck to you and let me know how you're doing.

[infoviewer]

Hi Peety's fur-mom: My nearly 12 year old mini dachshund has been treated with Vetoryl for six months. It has seemed to help somewhat, but he has developed calcium deposits on his tail since starting the Vetoryl. One of my vets has prescribed the DMSO, but I am like you I am afraid to use it since he only has about 4 calcium deposits on his tail and he has not even noticed them. I know DMSO is an old medicine and has been used for many years on horses and some people seem to have good results with it. Some doctors even use it on people for different things. Glenda is right the Lysodren is much more helpful in the control of the calcinosis. I would have to keep CoCo off the Vetoryl for 30 days to be able to start the Lysodren and I hesitate to do that since I believe he would develop more problems not being treated for 30 days. The people on this forum know so much about Cushings and the treatments. If I had known that CoCo would develop the calcinosis I would have started him on the Lysodren rather than the Vetoryl. Lots of people have had good results with both medications and their fur babies have lived many years. Good luck to you and your fur baby. Hugs, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks for all the responses. Today is the third day of DMSO. He is doing very well with it. Tonight he got a bath and brushed and he is all clean and smelling sweet and he knows it. I love seeing him like this. Took last predisone today so we are just waitng to be able to do the Cushing's test. The CC is all over his body, my only hope is that we can still get it under control. Every day is a new day to see improvement. Thanks for all the the support. This is a great community to be part of, if you have to deal with something like this. At least you know you are not alone.

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome from me and Simba (10yr old mini doxie, almost 11yr in April) you have found the best site to be on for you and your furbaby...these cushing parents are so smart and very kind, so settle in, we are all here for you!!

[infoviewer]

Hi again Peety's fur-mom. Glad the DMSO seems to be helping. I have not started using it yet. My vet told me that I have to definitely use Latex gloves when I put it on my dachshund. I have read lots of stuff about it and I know it is an old medicine, but have been afraid to use it and CoCo only has a couple of the calcium deposits on his tail, but looks like more are forming. I have heard some good reports on the DMSO and hope your furbaby continues to improve. Please continue to let us know how she is doing. The people on this forum are so experienced and can help so much. Hugs, JoAnne

[infoviewer]

Hi Peety's fur mom: Hope your furbaby is doing better this Monday morning and the DMSO is helping the calcinosis. I know your precious puppy will feel better if you can get a handle on the calcinosis. Let everyone hear how you are doing. Hugs, JoAnne

[molly muffin]

Hi, how is the cc doing? Is the DMSO helping?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi everyone, we are still doing DMSO. I am not sure what I am supposed to be seeing. He is doing ok, I am just not sure if the DMSO is curtailing this outbreak of calcium. He is covered, not one inch of him is not covered. I am treating about 1/4 each day. He has been off predisone since Fri and no one has said what I should see as a result of him coming off of it. Will there be more itching, more outbreaks? I know that I cannot leave the t-shirt off or the cone off, because he will go to town on new areas and then we have a problem. The dermatologist took him off of antibiotics, so I am nervous that he could get an infection. So after walks and meals I put the cone back on. His appitite has improved since off the predisone. He actually perks up when he smells food, his or not. So I am encouraged by that.

My Vet and I have been playing phone tag, he knows I want a natural remedy and he is looking into that for me. He called with what I was hoping was other options, but we haven't talked yet. He had suggested a referral to University of Gainesville as a possible way to get some answers. He said he has had good luck with referrals there. I just found out a nabor took their dog there a couple of years ago and I need to go pick their brain a bit. My dermatologist hasn't followed up and I guess I am not surprised. She has not been forthcoming with information. After all the money I have already spent you would think some of that would have covered general information and answers. I don't know about everyone else, but sometimes I don't know what qustions to ask. I really thought having a professional would give me some assurance. Not so in this case. I need to find another way to get my boy healthy. Still a ways from the Cushing's test. Right now my focus is on this horrific skin disease.

Anyone know of anything, topically other than what has been mentioned. Someone said this would take a long time. And I have dug my heels in for whatever...I just need to know that I am doing whatever I can to make this less irritating for him. So any suggestions, would be appreciated. Thanks for the continued support. you're the best....

Pat Peety's #1fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi JoAnne, How is your lil guy doing? Just wondering if the calcium deposits are stiill slight as you mentioned before. Oh, I do hope the meds have kept it from spreading. Peety is pretty much covered head to tail and I did use the DMSO for a few days only. I was never on board when first told about it. And I did not see any difference. Right now I am just watching for new places that he has found and worsened by his licking and scratching. He only has the cone off and the t-shirt off for a few minutes for walks and eating. But he's quick when he has an itch. So far I am able to keep this under control. My Dermatologist took him off of antibiotics, and that concerned me that he didn't have any protection. So I am vigilent in looking for any places that needs special care. He is still loosing his hair but he has lots, so I am not overly concerned yet.

I did find a Holistic Vet in my area and I am seeing my Vet Monday, hoping to get a referral. Maybe they have something that I can use topically or internally. I want to supplement his daily vitamins with extra Vit E and anything else that may help. Since he has been off predisone, he is like a new dog. He eats better, plays better and his personality is back to being sweet and silly. He doesn't know how bad he is, thank goodness. So for now I am happy that he is resting better and I think he knows his "mom" is looking for answers and he is very tolerant and patient.

Let me know if you have found anything else that improves the situation. Give Coco a hug from Peety and me. Pat, Peety's #1 fan.

[molly muffin]

Peety is just a gorgeous little guy. I don't know of anything else that he can take that helps the bumps. I wish I did. Everyone tells me that it is a real dickens to get control of when it gets very bad.

I think we all want to know what questions we should be asking our vets.

I guess, some for questions for you would be, what do they feel is the underlying cause of the skin problems? have they taken any scrapings to analyze exactly what it is. For instance, Is this caliconosis cutis or is it a yeast infection or something else? How it is treated would be tailored specifically to what the main problem is. We've had some dogs have yeast, some have the dreaded cc, some have skin infections due to other infections in their body (E-coli for instance) So I think that would be relevant to know.

Based upon that answer, you go from there, with next being treatment options and for any given treatment how long till you should expect to see results. You want to know that you aren't stopping something too soon, or that you aren't continuing something that isn't having any affect.
Good luck with both your vets this week. I sincerely hope that someone can give you the answer to these questions so you can get this cleared up.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Yes, diagnosed with CC about a month ago through biopsy's. Waiting for the Cushing's test. I am encouraged by his disposition since being off of predisone. Seeing him be more like his old self. But I wish there was more I could do for him. Will wait and see what the Vet says and maybe next week we will have a new perspective. Thanks for your input. Will let you know what we find out. hugs
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

Okay, I probably knew that from your first post and had forgotten. Sorry about that. (head slap)
So, the prednisone could make the cortisol actually higher and high cortisol seems to be a direct link to CC. So, taking him off that might help too.

hugs!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hi Pat and Peety: So sorry Peety is having such a bad time with the calcinosis. CoCo only has about 3 or 4 of the calcium deposits on his tail, or that is what the vet calls them. They actually look like warts. The vet prescribed the DMSO, but I have not used it since he only has a few spots. He has never even noticed them. There are lots of experienced people on this forum and the pups that have had the calcinosis did well on the Lysodren. That seems like a good idea to take Peety to the University of Gainsville. They will recommend something to help Peety. It is so awful to see your dog in pain. I am using the Vetoryl and it has lowered CoCo's cortisol, but he has lost a lot of his hair and it has not started growing back in, but maybe it will. I am sending healing thoughts your way and hope you find something to help Peety. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Trying coconut oil on Peety's calcium deposits. I have read about the wonderful properties of it and I am excited to try it. I talked to the pharmacists today and even he said no to the DMSO, but I was told that Hibiclens is also very good for cleaning and he agreed. So I have some new things that I am very hopeful about. Talking to my Vet tomorrow, I'm sure he will agree because he knows I am trying to treat as natural as possible. And since his CC got worse with the prednisone, I am also hopeful that he will not test positive for Cushing's. Since being off of the prednisone he has improved in all areas. It's possible the CC was because of the prednisone. And I have not seen the symptoms that others have spoke about. But of course we will do the test, I will just be praying alot that the results are negative for my lil guy. This part is horrible enough.

I am so glad I found this forum. Everyone has been so nice to share their experiences. It makes me feel like I have alot of really good friends that really care. Hugs to all.

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: That sounds good. I know both of those products are used on humans, so should not hurt and hopefully will help. Peety will smell wonderful with the coconut oil. Let us know how it works. CoCo has lost so much of his shiny black hair that his skin shows through. I am thinking if I had started him on the Lysodren rather than the Vetoryl it may have helped his hair, but would have to stop the Vetoryl for 30days to change, so afraid he might have worse symptoms. Hard to figure what is best for these sweet puppies. I will be sending healing thoughts to Peety. Take care. Love, JoAnne

[molly muffin]

I just thought of this thread where one of our members has listed the supplements that she is trying in addition to the vetoryl for her baby. You might be interested in her list, even though CC is not one of the items that she is dealing with.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showpost.php?p=94435&postcount=227

Hopefully the two things you have mentioned will be helpful too.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Sharlene, thanks so much for the thread. It was very helpful. Why reinvent the wheel when someone is already using it, right? I love that you just put something out there and someone has information they are willing to share. Instead of research time you can get down to the application of it. Thanks again. I am anxious to talk to my Vet today. I know that being proactive the professionals take you more serious too.

JoAnne, you mentioned CoCo was losing hair, Peety is too. I have been trying to decide if the smart thing to do would be to cut his hair short. It is more difficult to bath him then blow dry his hair. It would help me navigate the places that need more attention too. He wears a t-shirt all the time and when I take it off the hair is matted pretty good. I brush it out before bathing, but alot of it just comes out. You can see by his picture he "had" beautiful hair. Maybe I will talk to the Vet about that too. Only one time when he was much younger did he get shaved and I tell you he was so embarrassed. I promised I would never let that happen again. (I didn't do it, my X-mother-in-law did it):( Anyway, we will see what today holds. Thanks guys for all the valuable input. big hugs. Peety's #1 fan

[doxiesrock912]

Shaving would definitely be a plus especially since it's going to get warm out. I have a friend who shaves her Pekingese every year, they've gotten over the embarrassment and seem to like the feeling afterward.

If Peety starts to feel better, you'll have your answer :)
If not, it grows back.

Good luck!

[Mel-Tia]

Hello

Just wanted to share our experience with the use of Vetoryl and CC.

My Tia had it all down her back panel so we shaved her whole back from her collar to her tail. It took a good few months for her skin to clear up and start to heal with a couple of infections along the way but it did heal up completely and all her fur grew back apart from the spot on her tail which is known as a rat tail and apparently is the first sign of hormone problems (according to my IMS)

We used sudocream as an alternative to steroid spray and this did help her with the itching

Good luck with it

Mel
Xxxxxxx

Ps - it did cause razor burn with Tia and she really didn't like the vets doing it as i think it probably hurt a bit but I do think it helped as you could get at the spots easier

[molly muffin]

Let us know what the vet says!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: Peety is so beautiful and does have beautiful hair, but you are probably right you could get to the bumps easier and it might help her itching. Let us know what the vet says. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Had a scare today. Peety and I had just finished play time, after I came home from work which we do every day. He's always so excited to see me. He wasn't out of my sight 5 minutes, and I saw him at the back door, thought he was asking to go out. When I got to him I could see his side was bleeding pretty bad. I scooped him up and examined him good. He apparently swiped his side with his back paw and opened it up. A huge scab from the Calcium was hanging off. I quickly cleaned it with Peroxide and immediately called the Vet's office to see if I could come in. My heart was in my stomach. Peety has not been on antibiotics for 2-3 weeks and I knew I really needed to get him some. And I wanted someone to look at it and reassure me. I went in and the Dr. I saw was one I hadn't seen but he quickly reviewed Peety's file and told me to continue cleaning with the Hibiclens a couple of times a day and start him back on antibiotics.

We're still a couple weeks away from the Cushing's test. But I will see my regular Vet Monday and we will talk some more.

So I was encouraged after using the hibiclens last night. He looks awful but everyday I feel like we are a day closer to really seeing some noticible improvements. The Dr. said I should use the tramadol too just to keep him calm.

Peety was funny, I've said before he doesn't know how bad he is, at the Vet's office, his tail was wagging and he was soliciting hugs from everyone like it's no big deal and of course I'm a wreck.

Other than that, I know what we are dealing with and it's pretty ugly right now, but that's okay, Peety's heart isn't ugly and that's what I love.

Hope everyone is doing good with your lil ones.

Pat Peety's #1 fan.

[Simba's Mom]

Oh shoot, poor Peety and what a scare, hope he heals soon and so glad he is still wagging his tail!

[molly muffin]

Nothing like a quick dash of adrenaline. Did Peety think you were bored today. :) I'm glad you were able to get him to the vet right away. Hopefully every day will continue to be better than the day before. Those cc scabs are quite scary to begin with, the bleeding was just awful scary I'm sure.
That is so cute about how is tail was just a wagging at the vet office. How adorable is that!
Heats of gold these babies of ours have.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Oh Pat, how scary, but you and Peety handled it like pros. Seems like Peety is doing okay if he is wagging his tail and wantng love from the vets. Glad you got to the vet quickly. Never a dull moment with these babies. Glad we all found this forum, we don't feel so alone in our trying to help our pups. Hope you'll have a good day. Storms coming to Nashville, yikes. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Today was better, we had a good night and I am encouraged to see his calcium laden body looks a little drier today. His side is better, but after I washed him with the Hibiclens today, left his shirt off for drying and he managed to get the other side. Luckily I was standing there and intercepted his outta control scratching. Gave him a tramadol and he is now resting. I actually do see improvement. Certain areas I have been putting the coconut oil on like the backs of his legs are much improved. So maybe we are finally on to something. No new places coming out. So I'm thinking the prednisone had to have had alot to do with the way it all started popping out. Still on track to do the cushing's test, but everyday I see him improve just a little and it
is so heartwarming. Just got to get him past this itchey stage. Poor lil guy, he can't help it. But he's doing good, I am so much happier. :)

Hope everyone is doing good today. Happy almost TGIF....
Pat Peety's #1 fan :)

[molly muffin]

So happy to hear a good report on Peety. Every day that he improves is a good day.
Prednisone could definitely be a contributing factor. It is a cortisteroid, able to replace cortisol and raise it. All things that contribute to CC.
That coconut oil sounds like good stuff. So glad it is helping.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Hello, hello! How are you and Peety? Hows the cc doing? Are they all getting better still?

Let us know when you can!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi, we are not doing great, but then I have never seen this disease or know what exactly I should be expecting, I just know he looks like a seriously neglected lil guy. It makes me so sad, but I concentrate on keeping him clean and doctor the bad places. I did talk to my Vet, and we have scheduled the Cushing's test for May 6th. For now I am using the Hibiclens and neosporin and keeping him covered with a tee shirt. I do give him some time to just air out but It makes me sick to see his skin the way it looks. Maybe I will upload some pictures. I keep socks on his back legs, because he has no hair and it rubs against his bedding when he lays down and they are so raw. I keep neosporin on them and socks. He's happy with that. He is still eating good and playing and is generally very happy. No mirrors for him.LOL. Anyway, I guess we are doing the best we can. We are wheening him off his BP meds because my vet doesn't think he really needs them. He was 18 lbs, now 14, so every time he comes near the kitchen and acts like he is hungry he gets, fed. I figure he needs to be good and healthy for the coming weeks.

He is so patient and loves me for trying. I will never think I have done all that I can until I know I have and we are a looooong way from that. Hugs

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[infoviewer]

Pat: You are doing great to keep Peety doctored. I know it is awful for you and the sweet puppy. My little guy still has his cone on day and night and the sore on his foreskin is healing, but he has had it over a month. I feel so bad for him to have to keep the cone on day and night and only take it off when he eats and goes out. I know everything you are doing is helping Peety. Maybe when he gets his diagnosis the doctor can give you some medicine to help him. I am sending healing thoughts to you and Peety. Hope you have a restful night. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks JoAnne, It's nice to know someone else has an almost perfect idea of what I am dealing with. Just to hear you say, I wish he didn't have to wear his cone day and night gives me a visual that I know all to well. And I am so sorry that you are dealing with the same thing. I know that I am making the right decisions, but that doesn't make him alright. When I do take the cone off I try to leave it off as long as possible, by keeping a close eye on him. He's so happy with it off. And it has become so important for me that he is happy. I am so afraid that his skin will never be the same. He is a mess, but his face is so sweet and he gives me lil kisses all the time. I love that.

Yes, hopefully after the test we can put him on something that will improve his skin situation. Everyday my hope is for more than I can even imagine. And my prayer is that God can read my mind, because I don't always know what to say or how to say it. Just make him well, that's pretty simple. Right? God get's it I know.

Take care, keep me updated with your progress and hugs to both of you. Pat Peety's #1 fan.

[molly muffin]

Oh Peety. His poor little body. I absolutely hate how the cc affects them. Are you seeing any improvement still with the coconut oil?
Everything that I have read says that to get control of cc and make it go into any kind of remission, the hormone levels need to be balanced to a normal level. Usually the cortisol has to come down too. Are you still going to do or are you doing the lignans and melatonin? Maybe that will help to bring the cortisol down.
I hate the cones as much as they do I think. My golden had to practically live in one for so much of the last years of her life. If it wasn't her skin, it was getting hematomas on her ear. She got pretty good with it, but she still was like a happy dog bouncing around when it was off, even for a bit.
Hang in there. You are trying to help Peety and I am sure that he knows that you are trying to help him.
HUGS,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: Just hang in there until the vet gets Peety on medication to lower his cortisol and the calcinosis will probably get better. Some of the pups on this forum have had the calcinosis leave and are only left with the scars and plaques. I just try to take things day by day and try to treat whatever is bothering CoCo the most and I will be so happy with every little progress he makes. Hope you and Peety have a good day. CoCo gets us up at 3:00 a.m., so our days start early, but that is okay, we just go with the flow. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks Sharlene and JoAnne I appreciate your encouraging words. I just stopped by my groomer to see if she would still groom him. (Well, that's a slight overstatement since he has very lil hair). But I mainly want his face and beard and nails trimmed. No bath just real simple. I told her she would be shocked to see how bad he has gotten. But she said she was ok with it and I told her to let me know if not and I would understand. He just needs to be prettied up abit. She was very encouraging and we cried together because she has been his groomer for about 7-8 yrs and she has always bragged at how beautiful he was with his long flowing perfectly groomed hair. She even told me once I should give lessons to Shi-Tzu owners that bring their pups in very matted and tangled. I have always taken great pains with his hair. I decided if it's gonna be long it has to be mat free and so we brush everyday, or did anyway. And he loved the pampering.

So we groom on Tuesday next week. I am so excited for him to be pampered, by people that really love him.

Anyway she was telling me about all the Cushing pups she has seen, over the years but never the CC. I am surprised at all the Cushing parents I have seen on this forum. And it is such a blessing to be able to share information and good and bad days. Thanks so much, Peety and I are so grateful.

JoAnne are you using a topical cream on his bad area? And is it improving or just not getting any worse? Cuz Peety has a couple of bad places, not greatly improved but not getting worse either. May just be the nature of the disease.

you guys have a great TGIF and weekend.

Pat Peety's#1 fan

[molly muffin]

Is coat was definitely beautiful and I hope that one day it will be again.
I'm thinking a puppy cut might work for him? A different look for sure, but with the cc, it might be more comfortable while still letting him look uniform. Molly dances around after she gets a puppy cut. She's a definite fan of her's. :) You can either leave the beard full or cut it back on the chin. I've tried both. Right now she has the little lion face, but I think I like the beard cut back to puppy style too.
Have a good weekend!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: CoCo only has about 4 or 5 calcium deposits on his tail so I have not really treated them with anything other than when I put antibiotic cream on his foreskin where he has a sore I put the cream on his tail. The bumps have been there about 3 months and have not changed. He has a sore on his foreskin that we have been trying to heal for about two months I think and has a broken toenail that is very painful so we have to keep the cone on him so he does not lick. I feel so bad for these sweet puppies, but just have to keep trying to help them. I know Peety will look beautiful when he is groomed. His hair is so beautiful. CoCo is a mini-dachshund and had beautiful sleek black hair, but it is about gone, but he does not know it, he is still prissy. Have a good night and weekend. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Today is Thurs and thought I would update where we are at this point. Still have not tested yet, testing on the 13th. Overall we are doing pretty good. My groomer shaved him down this week because it was just to hard looking for new places that might get lost in his hair. Actually he has been loosing his hair anyway, so it really was the best thing to do for him as well as me. He looks like he is naked. I'm always asking him who stole his clothes. :) He actually doesn't look as bad as he did before the shave. Some long hair, some short hair. I can see everything at a glance and I know what needs extra care. and I know his hair will grow back.

I have started taking him to the beach and on the days we can't go, I bought some sea salt and I just make him a spa bath. He loves the extra pampering. I am really starting to see some improvement in his sores. Drying out alot. I am still giving him his daily vitamin and aloe vera in his food. He is eating good and playing and he is generally very happy. So guess what, mom's happier too.
We are completely off the BP meds. I have been doing research to see what part the meds may play with his calcium. I know it does have some affect. Still hoping he will be negative for Cushings. No real signs. I know there is something, just not sure what it will be. I am still believing that we can get past this and on to good health again.

We will continue doing research into more natural remedies. So far I think the saltwater is one of the best healing all natural remedies I have come across.

Hope everyone else is also having good days and good reports.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: Glad Peety is doing better since he got his hair cut. I am sure he looks beautiful. CoCo still has the few on his tail, seems like they are looking a little worse and his hair seems to be coming off on the tip of his tail. The sore on his foreskin is healing. I know you will be glad when he is tested for Cushings, hopefully he won't have it. CoCo seems so boisterous lately. Barks at everyone he sees and seems to try to run everywhere. Maybe he is feeling good. Take care. Love, JoAnne

[Fellasmom]

Hi Pat
Just wanted to say thanks for your support to Fella and I.This is such a great site!Good luck with your Peety!My golden used to have horrible draining hot spots and after trying everything with limited success,soaking them with salt water from the ocean was the only thing that worked!Thanks again for your kindness.
Love,
Patty

[molly muffin]

Hi, hows Peety doing? Still enjoying those spa baths? :) Hope his skin is starting to heal a bit. I know that he would just feel so much like himself if the itchy would just go away.

Hope all is well and you are enjoying some nice weather and beach time.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: Glad Peety is enjoying is sea salt baths. The few spots on CoCo's tail seem to look better. I have been using organic coconut oil on him. Don't know if that is the reason. I think you said that is what up were using on Peety so I thought I would try it. The hair is still coming off, but seems like the bumps are smaller or I am just hopeful. Have a good weekend. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi everyone. Hope all your precious lil ones are doing great. I am going to try to upload some pictures of my lil guy so you can see what it is I am talking about with his skin. We are testing for Cushing's the 13th. But I am still believing for the best. He has really turned the corner in every way. He feels great, plays like there is no tomorrow and has a healthy appitite. I have no concerns there. The salt baths, (i.e. spa days) I think have made a difference. And the coconut oil and the vitamins. But I am amazed at the severity of this skin disease. I think it has finally stopped coming out. But the places are so unlike anything I have ever seen. I am just hoping an praying there is beautiful skin underneath somewhere just waiting to peek through any day now. But my heart is so full everyday that I can see him happy. He makes my day. And he knows I am doing my best. So let me see if I can get some pics on here for you to see.
The best to all of you, it's so nice to know you are there.

Pat, Peety's #1 fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

okay I uploaded the pics. They don't show up as bad as it really is, and maybe that is good. But at least you can see some of it.

[molly muffin]

Oh Peety. Is the black his skin on the top? His normal pigmentation I mean.
How does it seem? Do you think it is getting better? It does look so very uncomfortable for him.
Does the bumps seem to be getting smaller? Do you notice any new hairs trying to grow in?

It was funny, I'd gone upstairs to get ready for bed and suddenly had the thought of, Oh crud, I meant to write to you today. I got caught up in work yesterday and then answering threads tonight. I ran right back down here and found your thread. LOL ta da!!

Hang in there mom!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Sharlene thanks for thinking of us.

Peety's skin has turned black most all over. Even his stomach that was white and his PeePee has also turned black. Wierd I know, but so far no sores on his stomach or PeePee. There are places that still resemble his skin just black with hair. Then there are places that are very thick black and they have lil bumps that don't appear to be getting better or worse. No hair there at all. He continues to loose his hair in places that the pink/white skin still is, like his head has a hugh bald spot but it is still pinkish like his nornal skin. When I bathe him I try to rub the thickened areas being careful not to disturb but encourage the top skin to fall off if it is ready. I am truly baffled by this. I am hoping the Vet can shed some light on this when we go in Monday for the Cushing's test. Doesn't seem to be painful and he doesn't really scratch alot, but still wears a t-shirt and a cone just to prevent any possibility of him doing it.

Right now I am not stressed by the looks of it, because I mainly go by how he is feeling. If any of that changes that would cause alarm I am sure. But right now, I just keep him clean and I give him salt baths and massages and lots of love.:) And I keep a log with pictures to see what the progression of this disease it.
Everyday I hope I see just small amounts of improvement.
And everyday I do what I can and enjoy the love he gives me in return.

Hugs and blessings to you

Pat, Peety's #1 fan

[Simba's Mom]

oh poor Peety, I have never seen anything like that, hope the vet has answers for you soon...sending hugs to you Pat...

[molly muffin]

Hmm, it sort of looks like pictures of Black Skin Disease. There are several theories of what might cause it, such as hormonal imbalance, thyroid, food allergies, etc.
It is a symptom with another reason as the cause and can be mistaken for cushings (from what I have read) Not a lot seems to be known about it but it is something to speak with your vet about as a possibility.
It also does not seem to cause dogs much distress, unless it becomes itchy.

Hang in there! I know Peety in in excellent hands.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Sorry to post such awful pics. Calcinoisis Cutis is not pretty. I see him everyday so I am kinda ok with it. I have my days, when I just hold him and cry. I want my beautiful handsome boy with beautiful skin and long beautiful hair back. But still he is so sweet and his personality is so fun inspite of this horrible plague on his body. That is what I love about him. And I still think he is Beau-ti-ful :)

When I see the Vet Monday I will try to ask all the questions that cross my mind. Maybe it's not related to Cushing's and there is something else that I can do for him.

We all have something we are dealing with that we hate. I read all the posts and sometimes I cry because I know how much love each of you have for your lil ones. Thanks for all your support. I am so glad I found this community of big hearts.

Hugs to you and your lil ones.

Pat Peety's#1 fan.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks, Sharlene, I am gonna research this right now. Never heard of black skin disease, but I found a site that has pictures. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

You're right Sharlene, it could be hormonal imbalance or hyperthyroidism as well as other things. Still need testing for Cushings's. Hoping my vet has heard of this black skin disease or Alopecia X. Interesting. Doesn't seem to affect their overall health. One site said that dogs develope their own "unique look" and certainly are just as loved. There is not an exact test for it, except to rule out other things. So we will add this to my list of questions.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks for that tip. Big hug....

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Pat, thank you for sharing the photos, good or not it will help someone, he's still cute and a little fighter, sounds like he has lots of personality too..praying that they find some answers for your little peanut....and sorry if I reacted badly to the pictures, we all have something and it just makes me so sad for the pups, but boy are we getting the education of a lifetime, take care....

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Letti, Thanks for your words of encouragement. No, I absolutely did not think you reacted badly when you saw the pics. I know they are shocking and it is so disheartening to see. But you're right, people that see them might know of someone that is having the same issues. And we all want to help each other. So yes, we are all getting an education about many areas of illnss that can plague our lil ones.

We're dealing with it, and I think we are doing pretty good. At least I take my cue from Peety and I know he is really good right now. We'll see what the Cushing's test shows on Monday.

take care

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Trish]

HI there

I am not much help with skin issues sorry, but I do want to send a big "PAW's UP" to Peety and hope you get some answers on how to manage this soon! :)

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Tomorrow is the big day for Peety. Testing for Cushing's Ugh!!! Can anyone tell me what to expect for the next couple of days. I mean I know it's a blood test, but what else do they do. Will he be okay the next day? I just don't want him to have any down time and I am worried that he will not be his self. He is so happy now that I wish I could just not do it. I am afraid that he will change some how and I am very happy with the way he is now. Can anyone offer any thing comforting, so I am not up all night wondering why I am doing this?

[Squirt's Mom]

It is possible that Petey might feel a bit "off" after the test tomorrow but it rarely lasts long and there is no permanent damage from the test. Just keep reminding yourself that this is the only real hope to get his skin under control before it gets worse, effecting his quality of life. I know it doesn't bother you nor seem to bother him a great deal just yet but CC can get very nasty if the cortisol isn't brought down. So even if, IF, he has a bit of a rough time for a little while following the test this is the path to better control.

We are all with you tomorrow and will be looking forward to hearing from you when you can post.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Yes, Sometimes you see an increase in things like, hunger, drinking, peeing after the test, but not always and it usually goes away within 48 hours to normal levels. So don't worry about that. Are you seeing the vet tomorrow too to ask about the black skin disease, etc?
We'll all be thinking of you tomorrow!
hugs,
Sharlene and MollyMuffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks Leslie and Sharlene, I have never seen anyone post what the test is like and what kinda efffect it has on them. So thanks for the heads up. And I do need some answers regarding his skin. It isn't outta control now but it could be next week. I do hope to see the Vet tomorrow, just for Q & A. So I will let you know what he thinks at this point. Tonight will be x-tra cuddling with my lil guy, and praying. Thanks so much for your support. And Happy Mother's Day to all the fur-mommies :)

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy came home weak and tired after his low dose 8 hour test. He was back to normal by the next morning. :) Getting diagnosed, then starting treatment (if necessary) will be better for Petey in the long run. It will give him a better quality of life. :o. Please post the results when you get a chance.

Huge hugs for you and Petey,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

Happy Mothers Day to you too!!!
It'll be okay. I hope you get some answers too. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Just wondering, is there a cut off for food and water tonight for him? I can't remember if they told me. I think they said no food, but thought you guys would know for sure.

[Harley PoMMom]

If it's a LDDS test, then water is allowed but usually the dog is fasted.

For an ACTH stimulation test, no fasting is required and water is permitted also.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks, Not sure, so we will go with fasting. He doesn't usually eat late anyway unless it's snacks. I am getting nervous. I know it's just a blood test, but tomorrow is the beginning of change and the unknown will be known. Tonight I am very emotional, I guess because I look at him and I know I have to make good decisions for him. AND I WILL, with the information I am given I will make the best decisions and we will be fine. Right? Right? okay, until tomorrow.

Pat Peety's #1 fan.

[Simba's Mom]

Sending healing hugs and prayers for Peety, and encouraging hugs for you, keep us posted!

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I'm amazed at how they know the moment they get in the car where they are going. Normally, he looks out the window, but today he sat with his head down the entire trip. Not looking up one time. I had my hand on him and talked to him the whole trip. I choked back tears as I told him how much I loved him and that this was a good thing and we were gonna get some answers. Nothing gets me more than to see him unsure and scared. When we arrived I reached to pick him up and I could feel him pull away from me. Boy was I dreading going inside. But once inside he greeted everyone as he always does and was just sweet and happy. What a relief. He weighed in at 4 lbs more than the last visit. He was originally 18, dropped to 14, now back to 18. Happy about that. The tech said only a 2 hour test today. When she started to take him, he turned to look at me then dug his feet in and another pain my heart:( but finally he went somewhat willingly. Seeing the Dr at 10:30 to talk about his skin. So that is where we are up to the moment. Will update later this aft.
Can't wait to pick him up.

[Squirt's Mom]

Petey just doesn't understand but hopefully one day soon he will be feeling better because of your actions to make the unknown known. It is scary to us parents but you are not alone. We are with you all the way, right by your side. Let us know how today goes!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Tia would break for the door, used to break my heart, big hug to you.

Hopefully the time will fly and you can make some progress

Thinking of you both

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Ok, I have my lil guy back. He did really good. Happily he has not had any down time today. Happy to be home and playing and eating good. While I was out I went and picked up some brewers yeast tablets. I use to have him on it but it's been awhile. It's another good way to keep the skin healthy internally.
The Dr. was surprised at his skin, since it has been about a month since he saw him last. He admitted it had never seen anything like it in his 43 years of practice. His best advice is still going to Gainesville to UF to have them see him. I told him about the black skin disease I read about and he agreed it did look more like that than CC. So we are going to see what the results of this test is, then go from there. Probably a couple of days for the results.

Thanks everyone for your support and concern. So nice to have an outlet of caring people to turn to. Big big hugs :)

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Mel-Tia]

Glad the little guy is home and not sulking!

Hope those tests give you the answers you need

Mel
Xxxxx

[molly muffin]

Awww, he's a good boy and you are a good momma too. :)

I am leaning towards black skin disease over CC based on the pictures you posted. So, maybe UF is the best bet, definitely need to find someone with experience in this.
Lets see what the tests show and then what is next.
Also do some searching on the internet and see if anything you read strikes you as similar to Peety. (just to get ideas)
You're doing awesome. Remember, just like CC is a symptom of something else, so is Black Skin Disease. Just a symptom.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: Hope you find out what is wrong with Peety's skin. You have helped him so much with what you are doing. He is still a happy boy. Love, JoAnne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I'm nervous waiting for the results of yesterday's test. It was only a 2 hour test. Isn't there an 8 hour test also? I guess depending on the results that would determine if they do further testing. Is that right? Would a 2 hour test be enough to confirm the Cushing's disease? I am preparing to make plans to go to UF after I get the results. My vet thinks they would love to get their hands on Peety. And OMG I would love that also. Reading about the black skin disease pretty much describes exactly what he has. Black, elephant skin. Sounds horrid, huh? It is. That part is down the center of his back and the rest of it is just black spots and balding in some of those areas. It looks like lava from a volcano, you know how it covers everthing in black and years down the road you see lil sprigs of green life. Well, in this mass of elephant skin, I feel little fussies that I think is a good sign. There has to be healthy skin under there to promote new growth. So maybe the follicle hasn't been completely damaged. Then again, it could mean some hair will come in and he will have bald spots all over.

Oh well, gotta stop, I am really depressing myself and I have to go back to work. It's just that I think about him all the time and keep hoping everyday to see something positive. Thank God he feels good. Regardless, I will love him if he never has any hair.

Hugs to everyone.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I am so excited. I think I have found something. Don't know how I found it, you know how you go from one thing to another. Well, I found an amazing product called Manuka Honey. Watched a video from a Prof Molan of Waikato University in Hamilton New Zealand. Apparently the medical properties of Manuka Honey is Anti biotic, Anti-Bacterial, Anti -inflammatory, Stimulates white blood cells provides nutrients directly to the wound. He has been studying Manuka honey for over 25 years. I also found a segment on the Dr Oz show and he was also really excited about it. I found a company that sells it in New Zealand and they sell bandages that can be applied or just the honey to make your own. I sent them an email to get some more information. Has anyone ever heard of it? Maybe I have been living under a rock, but I have never heard of it. My groomer told me she has lupus and when she has flair ups, she uses honey on her skin. She swears by it. I also read that is is good for animals as well. So I can't wait to hear from them. Maybe this is something that will work and will not be toxic. Praying this is a good alternative to traditional treatments :) Anyone know anything about it?

Pat

[molly muffin]

I am going to wait for Leslie and the others to chime in as they know more about some of the natural things, but I wouldn't be adverse to trying it at all. No place to get it in the states? I wonder if Trish knows something about it, she's in New Zealand.
How exciting. So do you have some links? Wanna read it too. LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

This is the first I've heard about Manuka Honey, but here's an interesting link to an article on WebMD that talks about its healing properties when used on the skin. And yup, looks as though there are several outlets for it here in the U.S. :)

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/manuka-honey-medicinal-uses

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Looks like they have it on amazon.com but I guess you'd want to make sure that you were getting the right one that has the properties that are needed for Peety's skin.
It does sound like it could be beneficial, won't break the bank to try at least.
huggers,
Sharlene

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks guys, I worry sometimes that you guys think I'm nuts. But I honestly believe that there are ways to treat without chemicals and toxins. I have read so many links, including WedMD and it's all positive. Even saw pictures of some amazing results. And no, I am not so gullible to believe everything, but I have read from some reliable sources. Dr. Oz usually doesn't jump on a band wagon unless he is 100% sold. And WebMD is a very reliable source. Yes, there are places in the US, just trying to find the right place. Want to get a medical grade that has a UMF(Unique Manuka Factor) of at least 15. I even found a receipe for a facial :)

The video I watched with Prof. Molan was very compelling and it obviously has been his life's work to bring this amazing product and it's medicinal properties to the forefront. I am excited and I don't think it was an accident. I was praying all day that God would reveal something to me. (I was really depressed earlier, scared really). I came home determined to find something. I kept looking at Peety through my tears and I just promised him I would find something. When I found that link, I was so excited I told him I found something. He looked at me like...I have a crazy mom :) I'll see if I can post the link to Prof Molan. It's very encouraging. I'm excited for Peety, but hey, it has great potential for ending up in my medicine cabinet too. Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy. Hugs..
Pat Peety's#1 fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

youtube has the video for Dr Oz as well as Prof Peter Molan. Google Manuka honey for wound care. There's so many great things it is used for.

[molly muffin]

awwww, no way, we don't think you are crazy at all. If you're crazy, then so are the rest of us, so guess we're all in good company. ;)
I think it sounds very positive and if it helps Peety then that is even better. Hey I might try it to, I could use a good facial sometimes too. Let me know what you find. I'll check out youtube later on. I did watch a couple earlier tonight, but didn't put in wound, just put in manuka honey.
We're always willing to learn something new here. Anything that can help is good to know.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Manuka Honey is GREAT for many things! I don't understand exactly the difference between the Manuka and raw/local honey or commercial honeys but there is something different about it for sure. The herbalists and holistic folks I deal with rave about it and have used it in a variety of situations with success. Those that did not succeed, weren't worsened by the honey. Believe it or not, honey is one of the things used to make herbal medicines. Certain herbs can be added to honey for extraction then the honey strained and used. Those made with Manuka Honey are apparently more potent than any other honey. Honey is also added to herbal alcohol preparations to make Elixirs and again the Manuka seems to make more potent potions. ;)

I would certainly try it! If it doesn't help, you have a great sweetener for your teas at the very least. :)

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I am depressed and disturbed and distraught.... The results were positive. At least that was what the Dr. concluded. I don't have the test results, but he said something about a range of something that should be no higher than 16 and his was 20. Again I don't know what that was. I was wondering how conclusive the test was based only on a 2 hour test. I was expecting more testing. Anyway, having said that....he still believes I should go to UF. And he admitted he has not had alot of Cushing dogs in his 43 yrs of practice. I asked, if I did that, would he still see him for the maintenance stage. He was somewhat vague. After talking for a while, he "wished me luck". He wished me luck!!! and what the heck does that mean? Is he done with us? Is he unable to even treat him if UF does all the work? I was fighting back tears because now the only person who has at least a working knowledge of Peety's case has now told me "good luck" with whatever you decide to do. Geeze!!! I am not believing this. I also told him about the Manuka honey and he did agree that it does have amazing medicinal properties. But by now I am not impressed because I was the one who did all the research and I now know I don't have to have him approve of it. He said UF may decide to do all their own test, which is probably the case, which means whatever he did is a mute point.

What a disappointing day. I was at work when I got the call and so I choked back tears all day until I could be home with Peety and my own thoughts about what happened. I know I need someone locally that can see him when he needs to be seen for whatever the reason is. Preferrably someone with a tad bit more knowledge in this area. If I go to UF, I may get answers but I can't run back and forth to Gainesville when Peety has a flair up. I am more disappointed with the Dr, than I am the diagnosis and that's pretty bad. If I go to another Dr locally I am sure they will want to do all their own test, and that's just more $ that still has not produced a treatment plan for Peety.

Well, I ordered the Manuka Honey and I am hoping to have it by the weekend. I can't see how it wouldn't work, but I know I need to get to the real reason his skin continues this unrelenting nightmare.

HELP HELP HELP!!! I have to make good decisions. I have to!!!! You guys are so supportive and you have seen and heard it all I am sure. So I would love to hear any thoughts. Thanks heaps....

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

Okay, sweetie, you need a great big super group hug and I'm here to start it!
so... GROUP HUG

Okay, now you're on a good road with the manuka honey, so that is something to start out with.

The next thing you need to do is make an appointment to "talk" to the vet and make sure that they know that you will need copies of all test results for Peety going back (how long ago did this start? however long that is) I asked for 2 years for my molly, but it can be whatever you want it to be. Discuss with him thoroughly what all the test results seem to mean and if he is going to be comfortable treating Peety for regular things, and is does he feel okay about doing any tests at the intervals suggested by UF.

That will at least let you have a face to face with him and see where he stands. I do get that the "good luck" is equivalent sounding of "good bye" and if you do not want to talk to him, then still you need to call the vet office and tell them you will be coming by to pick up his entire folder copy with all test results because you'll need it going forward.

Come home and then type out high/low abnormal results with range given. We will look over the test with you. No worries there.

Now if you do not want to try with this vet, you have two options.

1) One is to go to UF first, with the copy of his file in hand, and let them do their tests and ask for a recommendation to a local vet that they have worked with previously.

2) The other is to call around and find a vet who has worked with UF and is familiar with cushings.

Okay, you have some homework and yes, this totally sucks, but at least he told you first before heading into something he isn't comfortable treating and making an error. (the positive way to look at it)

You are NOT alone, never, ever, when you have us. I know it seems like it, but you aren't. We are going to get this figured out.

Now, back into the GROUP HUG there you go.

Hang in there. You CAN do this.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Maybe it was just a "good luck" for trip to IMS. I hope so, otherwise that is very poor form on his part. I bet you cannot wait until you see the specialists to get to the bottom of this


We grew up here in NZ eating Manuka Honey on our toast!!

It has turned into quite an industry for beekeepers. I did a quick search and found this article which I hope helps. I know some health care professionals including in wound care do use it at times. Worth a shot I would think, hope it goes well for Petey and helps his skin

http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/7459

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks Sharlene and Trish, I feel better knowing I am not alone. I will get over this disappointment because my lil guy does not have time for me to be depressed.

I will call tomorrow and get all the records and then I will relay everything I know so far. I am researching Holistic Dr.'s in this area. I would much rather find someone local that has experience with Cushing's. And I also found a vetinary Hospital in this area that I plan to check out. Tomorrow is a new day and everytime I look at him I know what I have to do.

Thanks for being there, you saw past my depression and anger and got right down to the important questions. Us fur-mommies that are new to Cushings, need all the wisdom that is found in this wonderful community. Thanks again...BIG HUG back.
Pat Peety's #1 Fan

[Budsters Mom]

That vet has no business treating Peety anyway! I really want to say something unkind here, but I am going to fight my urge to do it.:(
I know it's hard finding an IMS and switching doctors. I still haven't done it myself! My vets are now doing what I want according to guidelines because I have worn them down,;) but I still need to babysit them to make sure they treat Buddy properly. That means going and staying anytime Buddy gets any treatment or tests done. You will be better off with a vet who knows more about Cushings.

Sending you and Peety big hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Pat, praying the honey works wonders for Peetys skin, we are here for you, sending hugs too....

[infoviewer]

Good luck today Pat. I am sure you will find someone in your area to treat Peety. It seems like we are the ones that have to make the decisions and find the information about our furbabies. I know it has been like that in my case and I have 3 vets. You are doing a good job with Peety by finding all the information that you can and it seems like the people on this forum know more about Cushings than the vets. I am sure the University will give you the info you need and then you can decide if there is someone in your area that can treat Peety. You will do great and Peety is so lucky to have you. Love, JoAnne

[Squirt's Mom]

HUGS

Last nite I read your post and got so angry at that vet! :mad: What a crock to just throw up his hands and give up right in your face! :mad: He's a wimp and doesn't deserve you and Petey! ;)

I had to look up Black Skin Disease and did so with trepidation because the name sounds just awful but come to find out it is Alopecia - a condition that causes the loss of hair. I have a friend who got Alopecia when she was in her early 20's and lost every hair on her body. She had straight, thick, coal black hair, black eyelashes and eyebrows, and dark body hair when this happened. She was totally hairless for about 15 years - then one day she noticed fine blond hair on her arm. Her hair regrew all over but it was nothing like her original hair - she now has thick, curly, dishwater blond hair, blond eyelashes and eyebrows, blond body hair.

It seems that melatonin is used to help regrow hair in pups so you might look into that - I know it made Squirt's hair and nails grow like mad but she didn't have Alopecia. It also seems, knocking around upstairs in my fragile memory bank, that Trilo also helps with this. These would be somethings to discuss with his NEW VET. :D

I hope you are good and angry this morning and put that anger to good use in finding a new vet for Petey. ;) There is NO doubt in my mind that he has one of the best moms around and I know you are going to put on your battle gear and go to war for him today. ;) Remember, we are all by your side.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Pat

Hope you and Peety are ok. You will get through this, we are all here for you

Big hug, kisses for the little man

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Checking in on you and Peety. How did today go?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Big hugs to all of you...

Today was not as productive as I had hoped. I spent last night looking for possible new Vets to call and "interview". I called my vet today to get them started on getting all the records together. They were out, I suppose, never did reach them, so I will try again tomorrow.
I found a local organic store that had the Manuka honey I wanted so I went out and got that. I am now in the process of tearing up sheets for bandages. He's gonna look like a mummy when I get done with him, I just know it. I talked myself out of doing it tonight because....don't laugh...I thought what if he were allergic to the honey, you know how some people are very allergic to bee stings. So I decided I would wait untiI tomorrow so I can monitor him. Tonight a bath in Hibiclens and a nice masssage. Tomorrow we will get down to some sticky business.
I have to tell you, I am so blessed that I found all you guys. You all have been through your share of "stuff" with your lil fur-babies. And I know how much you all care. I can't thank you enuff, but I will keep trying. For now, consider yourself hugged:)

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Harley PoMMom]

(((HUGS))) back atcha!!

[Trish]

Hugs from me too, I have never heard of anyone being allergic to honey... but I guess there must be! Hope he goes ok being bandaged up. Might feel a bit funny being all sticky and if he is anything like my dog he would try and bite the bandage off and I am pretty sure if he got the taste of honey he would love it and lick all the more!!! I like how you said we have all been through 'stuff' with our doggies, because all that collective experience is what I think makes this the best website on the net! Will be checking in tomorrow to see how the honey wrap goes :) Be a good boy Petey and no licking! :)

[Trish]

You must have heard me typing to you as I see your little green light just came on :) Hope your not up at some ungodly hour (not sure where you are located!) I will be quiet now shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :D:D

[molly muffin]

Nope it is true. I read that if you are allergic to bee stings then you Can have a reaction to honey. I don't think it is common though, but still I'd put a tiny bit on and wait and see how he does and if nothing occurs, then mummy here we come. hmm, maybe you should watch a good mummy movie together tonight and laugh at the similarities. Something very dorky!
Remember if one day is not as productive as you might have wished, there is always tomorrow. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

LOL I will get the results of the blood work this aft. Get this, More salt in my wounds....I found out my Vet is on vacation for the next 2 weeks...Well, I hope he has a gr8 time and don't eeeeven think of us... because WE ARE JUST FINE...thank you very much.....
I don't really think there will be a problem with the honey, but better safe than sorry. Gotta cover all bases. Don't think he will be able to lick it off, the worst place I am starting on is his neck(top side) and his side. And I plan to cover it really good. Maybe I can mask the sweet smell. The nabor dogs may wanna get close and get some "sugar". I got him some Omega3. The way I see it, is, he ain't gonna have any choice but to get better....I'll post the results this aft.
Stay tuned........ Peety's#1 fan

[Budsters Mom]

Yes, Buddy is allergic to bee stings. No surprise there!!! I was told not to give him honey because of it. I would follow Sharlene's advice and test a very small area first. I would leave it on for several hours. Sometimes it takes a while before an allergen reacts. If all goes well and you wrap mummy pooch, post a photo. We would all love to see it!

Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:

[molly muffin]

They can still give you copies of his file, even if your vet is on holiday. You just won't be able to have that person to person chat with him. Did you ask them to go ahead and make copies of everything that the vet has recommended that you go to UF and that you'll want a copy to take with you. ;)

Oh yes, Kathy is right. We want mummy Peety pictures!!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

They would not give me his medical records without the Dr signing off on it. They gave me the blood test results, taken in January. The first one is the test done on Monday.

Test requested 5/15/2013
Cortisol Serial 2 (ACTH) Results Reference Range Units
Time 1 8:20A
Time 2 9:47A
Cortisol Sample 1 3.2 1.0-5.0
Cortisol Sample 2 20.2 8-17
Hyperadrenocorticism (HAC): Post ACTH results greater than 20 ug/dl are consistent with HAC
Note: ACTH results should always be interpeted in light of clinical signs. False positive results may occur with stress or non-adrenal illness. In addition, exogenous steriods may be measured by the assay and result in falsely elevated cortisol levels. Because of wide variability, resting (basal) cortisol should be used to rule-out or diagnose HAC
Iatrogenic Hyperadrenocorticism: Resting cortisol is usually between 1-5 ug/dl with little to no increase in the post-ACTH cortisol level.
Hypoadrenocorticism(HOC): Resting cortisol is usually subnormal(less than 1 ug/dl) or low normal with no increase after ACTH

Blood test done 2/12/2013

Total Protein 6.9 5.0-7.4 g/dl
Albumin 2.8 2.7-4.4 g/dl
Globulin 4.1(high) 1.6-3.6 g/dl
A/G Ratio 0.7(low) 0.8-2.0 ratio
AST(SGOT) 29 15-66 U/L
ALT(SGPT) 30 12-118 U/L
ALK Phosphatase 143(high) 5-31 U/L
GGTP <5 1-12 U/L
Total Bilirubin 0.2 0.1-0.3 mg/dl
Urea Nitrogen 43(high) 6-31 mg/dl
Creatinine 1.6 0.5-1.6 mg/dl
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 27 4-27 ratio
Phosphorus 4.6 2.5-6.0 mg/dl
Glucose 116 70-138 mg/dl
Calcium 10.0 8.9-11.4 mg/dl
Corrected Calcium 10.7
Magnesium 1.4(low) 1.5-2.5 mEq/L
Sodium 146 0139-154 mEq/L
Potassium 4.6 3.6-5.5 mEq/L
Na/K Ratio 32
Chloride 107 102-120 mEq/L
Cholesterol 340(high) 92-324 mg/dl
Triglycerides 62 29-291 mg/dl
Amylase 11809(High) 290-1125 U/L
Lipase 77 77-695 U/L
CPK 128 59-895 U/L



WBC 16.3(high) 4.0-15.5
RBC 5.6 4.8-9.3
Hemoglobin 13.1 12.1-20.3
Hematocrit 36 36-60
MCV 64 58-79
MCH 23.4 19-28
MCHC 36.4 30-38
Platelet Count 530(high) 170-400
Platelet EST Increased adequate
Differential Absolute
Neutrophils(high) 13040 2060-10600
Lymphocytes 1793 690-4500
Monocytes(high) 1304 0-840
Eosinophils 0 0-1200
Basophile(high) 163 0-150

Urinalysis
Color yellow
Apperance Cloudy clear
Specific Gravity 1.013(low) 1.015-1.050
ph 6.0 5.5-7.0
Protein 2+(high) Neg
Protein
Urin protein: creatinine ratio testing is recommended(if the sediment is inactive) to help determine the clinical significance of proteinuria
Glucose Negative Neg
Ketone Negative Neg
Bilirubin Negative Neg-1+
Blood trace Neg
WBC None 0-3
RBC None 0-3
Casta None seen
Crystals None seen
Bacteria None seen none
Squamous Epithelia 0-1 0-3
Urine Microalbumin
Microalbuminurie >30 (High) <2.5

The MA is greater than 30 mg/dl indicating overt albuminuria APC ratio suggested to quantify the proteinunia
Microalbuminuna(MA) usually indicates compromise of the glomerular barrier and is a significant finding when it is persistent(2 or more positive results obtained 2 or more weeks apart) Persistent MA, in the majority of pets is due to renal injury secondary to other systemic disease or primary renal disease. Systemic diseases associated with persistent MA include inflammatory disease, chronic infections, metabolic disease(e.g. hypertension, Cushings Syndrome, diabetes mellitus, hyperthyroidism) and neoplasia. False positive results may occur with pyuria and gross hematuria.

Suggestions for evaluating patients with microalbuminuria:
1. Check for and treat underlying diseases indicated above
2. Recheck MA in 2-4 weeks
3. In the absence of underlying disease, monitor for progression of MA and development of renal failure.

I'm still going to try to get the other records. One of the other Dr's should be able to authorize the release of the files.

That is all I have for now. I would be interested in knowing what you think or if this tells a story at all. It seems like there is alot missing.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

I am going to look this over some more but did the vet talk to you about these results at all? Like any mention of renal issues and is anything being treated or was treated after these results?

For instance Amylase 11809(High) 290-1125 U/L
In fact, do you mind if I highlight the high/low results you posted in red so they are easily seen.

Was the MA (Microalbuminurie) rechecked as was recommended on this lab work after 2 - 4 weeks? And do you know if there have been consistently high results in this area?

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

No and yes, No one ever talked to me about the results of his Blood test in January. And yes, highlight anything that makes it easier for you.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

OMG!!!!! We have a worse problem, than bad skin or Cushing's. I think I'm gonna be sick. Why has no one told me anything about renal failure. I feel horrible, like a bad mommy not to know all this. Why has no one said anything?????? I can come up with all kind of possible remedies for his bad skin and can get him on meds for Cushing's but not much I can do for renal failure. OMG!!!!

This is truly sickening. I feel like I was just punched in the stomach. I typed all that in last night, but honestly I wasn't really reading it, just kinda on auto-pilot typing. I was looking for anything that had Cushing's in the sentence.

So he was a worse Vet than I actually knew. This test was done in January. This is May. What was he thinking, or better yet, why wasn't he thinking? I'll wait for your response. I'm truly sick, that my boy is sick and I didn't even know how bad.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok, honey, take a deep breath....since this test has not been repeated we don't know what those values have done - increased or decreased or stayed the same. From what I am reading, there could be other causes for the elevations that seem to indicate renal issues and repeat testing was needed to determine exactly what. That wasn't done so we don't know right now. So what I would do is request this be checked again asap. Cushing's could be at the bottom of this as well so don't get discouraged today, 'k? Call the vet, or A vet, and have labs run again then go from there.

Big hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

As Leslie said, breath! Deep breaths, in and out, count to 10.
The tests need to be repeated. You need to see where Peety is at now. This is Not absolute renal failure, you have to look at the big picture, no one test or results will give that to you. They are markers that make you aware that something needs to be looked at. I think you typed, Feb for that test.
I am going to say that I would ditch that vet as follow up is very important and this one dropped the ball big time. So, lets just get you to a vet, and I would suggest a specialist if that is possible for you, because we do want someone who will look at the big picture. It could have been something that caused these to go up and now they are coming back down, but you do need to know, just for your peace of mind even and because of course, we are trying to get Peety's skin fixed up.
So, some more deep breaths and we're right here with you. Every test that you do going forward though, get a copy of and when your vet gets back, tell him, you want copies of the full file.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

You guys must think I am terrible. No, I know you don't. But I think I am terrible. I assume that after blood work is done there is a discussion about anything that appeared abnormal. And of course I feel bad that I didn't request a copy of the test. I should have. It has alot of important information on it and I did pay for it, afterall. Lesson learned....I should know better, you just don't trust anyone, even if they have a dozen diplomas. So all this time while we were waiting to do the Cushing test, we could have addressed the kidneys. Even the derm Dr didn't mention it and she had all his blood work from my Vet. But then she was a hugh disappointment too. So far I am batting 1000. I have to shake this off and get on with finding the right person to care for him.

Well, on a brighter note. No honey allergies. We are all wrapped up mummy style. I'll try to snap some pics when I am home this weekend. He's doing good. Thanks for all your encouraging words. I cried about it and will again I'm sure, but gotta get really serious and find the right person. Big hugs to all of you for your insight and input and for your caring. loving spirit..

Pat Peety's#1 fan.

[Mel-Tia]

Pat

No feeling horrible. You trust them to interpret the results and speak to you.

Sending you a big hug

Mel
Xxx

[labblab]

Hello from me, and I just want to reinforce something that Leslie wrote earlier: a big reason why the renal abnormalities may have been put on hold was to first explore the Cushing's diagnosis more thoroughly. This is because Cushing's, itself, could be responsible for causing many of those abnormalities. If so, one of the first lines of attack would be effectively treating the Cushing's with the expectation that the renal values might normalize all on their own once elevated cortisol is controlled.

So you are not a bad mom in any way for allowing the Cushing's diagnosis to remain in the forefront.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Nope, not a bad momma. We KNOW how hard you are trying to find answers for Peety. It's something we all have been through and many are still going through. Not a fun place to be at all. This who process is a huge learning curve. I didn't know anything about getting copies of the test results, or protocols for dosage, testing for diagnosis, treatment. Those are all things that you Learn. I learned here by talking to others, by reading links to material from experts, by searching for answers for others.

You're doing great!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

You have certainly helped put things in perspective. Thank you. I am not so forgiving of the good Dr. though. Communication is vital especially when it comes to a loved ones health. We all need to be on the same page when it comes to diagnosis and treatment.

The next Dr. will not get away with not being forthcoming with information. I have a few places to ckeck out on Monday. For now we are doing fine. I am amazed at the number of Cushing parents. I read somewhere that alot of fur-babies probably die from undiagnoised Cushing's. So there's alot of people that don't know about it. This community is full of stories from scared parents and I know at one time or another you all were those scared parents. This is such a great place to let it all out, the good..the bad...and the ugly. You don't judge, you just help.

Thanks again for being there.
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

We have an appt Fri with a new Dr. I talked to them at great length about their knowledge and practical experience with Cushing's and skin diseases. I was told they had several pups that were on maintenance. So we will see how this goes. It is consultation only. Right now we are doing the honey wraps and I can't give thumbs up or down yet, it's only been a couple of days. Will wait at least until the end of the week to see if even the slightest improvement. I'm very hopeful.

Hugs to all of you and your lil pups

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

Hope the honey works. Sounds like the vet you are going to see uses lysodren, if they have dogs on maintenance doses. That might work well if this is cushings, and if this is the root cause of the black skin disease.
Hope that honey helps.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Pat

Just checking in on you and our honey mummy.....

Hope you are both doing ok?

Bug hug, kisses to the little man

Mel
Xxxxx

[molly muffin]

Hi Pat, can you imagine, we have new member with an english bulldog that seems to have the same thing going on with her skin that Peety does. Black crusted. Her vet though did a skin scraping and diagnosed calcinoisis Cutis with a bacterial infection. Did your vet do a skin scraping? Many of peety's values, are consistent with prolonged infection and could even be affecting other areas of the body. I am seriously wondering about that now.
I am glad you are going to a vet on Friday. How is the honey working?
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Pat and Peety too, praying for your little furbabys skin to heal, hopefully the new vet will be just what you need, sending hugs too...

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Well, we saw a new Dr today. Actually I really liked her. She wasn't too sure about his skin but she said she has several collegues that she wants to talk to about it. She took pictures. She said the blood test do not support Cushing's. She doesn't think he has it. She wants to consult with an Internal Medicine Dr. too. She gave him a thorough exam. She is hoping not to have to repeat any of the tests. But we may have to. She said what I was doing was fine for now until we know more. She was really nice and Peety liked her too. She's gonna do some homework and get back with me on Tuesday.

So for now we will be confident that we are about to get some real answers and have a nice weekend while we wait. So I hope all of you have a nice long weekend too with your families and lil fur-babies :-}
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

I was waiting for you to post about the vet visit. :) Okay so no cushings. That is good. Did she look at those numbers from the other tests?
Has the honey done anything yet?
I'm glad that she is willing to do some research and discuss with colleagues so that maybe you can get some answers.
Belly rubs to Peety and hugs to you. Have a good weekend!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

She did look at the blood work and I believe she is going to discuss that with an internest. She pointed out that the ACTH results greater than 20 are consistent with HAC. His were 20.2. she wasn't concerned by that. Still doing the honey, no definitive answer yet. Still hopeful. He is still happy as though nothing is going on at all. I love that. But really hoping we will know something more about the skin so we can get him on something internally that may help clear it up. Love that I have a long weekend to spend with my lil guy.
And hopefully next week will be more productive.

Hugs to all

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[labblab]

Hi again from me!

I am glad you liked the new vet, but I am confused as to why she would say that the testing has ruled out Cushing's. First off, did she have access to the derm vet's biopsy result that confirmed the calcinosis cutis? Actual biopsies are the most reliable means of diagnosing skin disorders, and would "trump" just looking at photographs. So I am confused as to why the new vet is questioning the CC.

Also, Peety has several other lab abnormalities that are consistent with Cushing's and his ACTH was elevated above the norm, as well. It is true that his ACTH was not highly elevated, but I don't see how it can be said that Cushing's has been ruled out given all of Peety's combined abnormalities. And first and foremost is the CC -- why did the new vet say that she is disregarding the derm vet's biopsy results? That seems really puzzling to me.

For what it's worth, given Peety's situation and combined abnormalities, I do think the Univ. of Florida would be a good place to turn for advice. They will have specialists well-versed in all of Peety's abnormalities all in one spot, who can talk with one another easily. That does't mean you would have to physically return to Gainesville forever, but just to tack down this initial diagnosis and set up a treatment plan.

Marianne

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Pat

Just checking in on you and the little guy, how you doing?

Does the honey seem like its helping? Has the vet been in touch today?

Big hug to you and sticky kisses to Peety

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Mel, we are doing good, LOL stickey kisses. Haven't heard from the Dr yet. I hope she calls today, if not I will call first thing in the a.m. I am still doing the honey, with the idea that it might just be keeping it from getting worse until I get him on something internally. He doesn't seem to be bothered by anything. Being his cute lil self every day. But even still I need more answers. I will update as soon as I know more. Thanks for thinking of us. Big hugs.
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

Hope you hear from the vet soon!

That is the good thing isn't it, that Peety doesn't seem bothered by any of it. Just goes on doing his thing and being happy. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

He just had a bath and he cracks me up. As soon as he is out and somewhat dry, he takes to running around the house, sliding here and sliding there on the hardwood floor. He has no brakes. Well the brakes are his bed where he runs and jumps on it like a kid jumping on their bed. He thinks he is so cool...and he is.:) My crazy lil character. I love him so much and he makes me laugh so hard sometimes, it's like he knows just how funny he is.
Anyway, hugs to all your lil characters.
Pat, Peety's #1 fan

[Simba's Mom]

AW Peety, you made your Mom's day, isn't that so cool when are dogs are happy!!!! Sending hugs and prayers that his skin will get better soon and so thankful that it doesn't bother him much...

[molly muffin]

Oh that adorable Peety!!! I love after bath time. It's like their little legs just go as fast as they can and hopefully the body will keep up with the legs. hahahaha :) They are so funny aren't they.
zooooooommmm, zooooommmmmmm

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[jackiev]

Good morning Pat :) I'm glad to read Petey's doing well! It's great you liked his new vet, hopefully you'll get some answers now. Did she mention what else could be causing his CC or was that a misdiagnosis also? I'm just asking because Ugga was diagnosed by a skin biopsy only and my vet told me it was definitely Cushings so we did not do further testing. Now I'm wondering if I should have. I loved your post about Petey after his bath, I literally laughed out loud when I pictured him zooming around the house and diving onto his bed, too cute! Have a wonderful day :)

Hugs,
Jackie and Ugga

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I'm a lil down today. :confused: I talked to the Vet and she suggested I go for a consult with a new Internal medicine Dr. I'm okay with that. She said they would decide if the test that were done is enuff to get him started on some meds for Cushing's. Or, do more testing. I'm okay with all of that. I have an appt on the 10th. 12 days. ugh!!!

The thing that has me down is, I read all the posts and I have never seen anyone post that they were discouraged with their Dr. Everybody seems to have the right people for the problems they are dealing with. I have been unfortunate to find a bunch of Dr.'s that are not well versed in this area, and they lead me on.:mad: Well, so far this one is okay. She said she could do any of the tests to save some money, and she can also do the meds. I guess it's just, I look at him and once again we are not even close to getting a treatment plan. 12 more days. :( Everyday I watch him and if there is the slightest thing out of whack, I worry. Today he didn't eat all his food. He's playing tonight and feels good and all that is okay, but just that one lil thing, not eating much got me worried. And I'm sure he will eat more later. And all will be fine. I listen for him at night. If I hear him, I get up and check on him, sometimes it's just a bad dream. I make him wake up every morning before I leave for work, so I can see him walk and stretch, and oh yeah, give me dirty looks too. He's not exactly bright eyed and bushey-tailed, I'm not either when somebody makes me wake up. But I feel better when I walk out the door that he is ok. I call my mom later in the morning to check on him again. And so far it has always been good. This is June and this all started in January. January!!! I truly have lost all faith in Dr's. My lil guy needs a Dr. dedicated to HIM!!! I cannot afford to waste anymore time. I hate CC and Cushing's. I wish I had never heard of it. I wish it would just go away. Sorry, tomorrow is another day. A better one, I hope. Thanks for letting me vent....big hugs to all of you and your lil fur-babies. Give them an extra big hug tonight. 12 days and counting...again...

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Pat, oh I know how easy it is to get down, so glad theres a place to vent, and please keep venting, you will feel better to get it out rather then hold it all inside...Getting to the right vet can be so hard, especially those with knowledge of cushings, you just keep looking till u find the right one, thats what I did...my old vet said that Simba was just getting fat, if I was still at that vet, Simba wouldn't even be treated yet for cushings...I drive an hour to my new vet, she is very good with Simba and with me ( I cry all the time it seems ) always thinking the worst and finding things to worry about...I decided that I just need to treasure every moment I have with Simba, and try to stay positive for him...take care hon, here for you, and remember God has His eye on little sparrows, you know He's watching little Peety too...sending hugs and prayers....

[molly muffin]

Pat, super big hugs! Nope, not everyone has the right vets for the right problem by any means. You know what is really bad, is that we can tell sometimes by what is said, what tests are ordered, what medical protocols are followed if the vet knows what they are doing or not, and sometimes they don't but the patient, doesn't realize it. You know at least what you want, and if you don't know, you'll ask and that is half the battle.
I'd call the vet back and say, you know, it's great to get to see an IMS, but I really need to do something for Peety and I'm not comfortable waiting almost another 2 weeks before we can even talk about a plan. Can they possibly get me in sooner, call me if there is a cancellation, something.

I continue with my vet, because of the staff. I'll battle every battle with the vet, because Molly is only comfortable with this staff, and it took her almost 5 years to get to the point where she was comfortable and didn't try to bite them All. There are still some new people there that she terrifies, but then there are others that can go right in, get her, do anything with her and she is fine. I'm more comfortable with the IMS, but I had to bully my vet practically to get the referral to the IMS, then she was huffy at me for the longest time about it. Well, too bad. She isn't huffy any longer, seems to have gotten past it, but we have blood tests coming up again, and who knows where it will lead. I'm not looking forward to it.
I really wish they would understand that you have already waited a very long time and that now you need the answers, you need a Plan!
I agree, I hate cushings, I hate CC and you can vent any time you want! Everyone on Here will completely understand and I don't doubt they'll all agree that they hate it too.
It is worrisome, we understand that completely. I didn't go to the office yesterday because it was stormy and molly was scared. I'm lucky enough that I can work from home if need be and I wasn't going to leave her when she was shaking in fear. We just adapt as best we can to what they are feeling like or going through at any given moment. If Molly doesn't eat I worry, if she drinks more water than normal, I worry, if she doesn't drink enough I worry. I think that we are all the same way. We watch everything and trust nothing. It's not a great way to have to live, but again, we do it because we love them.
They are bright shiny lights in our world. :)
HUGS, Sharlene and Molly Muffin
P.S. Addy is using a shampoo from her vet, and she is having some good luck with it and getting the crusty stuff of Zoe's skin. I wonder if it would help Peety too.

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Pat,
Not all of us have been happy with our vets... I and a few other members have fired our fair share. For whatever reason we need a new vet, albeit that we moved or a vet's lack of experience, I actually started interviewing vets. :o At the time, the best I could do was a vet that only had treated 6 cush pups if I remember correctly, and only 4 were considered successful. Through the help of the members here, we and our vet got through it.


Everyday I watch him and if there is the slightest thing out of whack, I worry.

As Leslie would say, Welcome to the twitcher club sister :) It's not a club we really want to belong to, but know that you and Petey are not alone in this journey.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Now you have me blubbering, again... I know how much you all care and I know you all have seen it, done it and no doubt cursed about it. :D I just don't ever want to reach a point and have to say I didn't do enuff. I think sometimes my standards are to high, that maybe there will never be a Dr that is good enuff to treat him. Maybe I have to many questions, and not very accepting of their squirrely answers.
I will call again and see if I can get in sooner. And thank you for that sweet reminder that God has his eye on Peety. I know that, honestly, that is the only thing I know I can trust. Thanks for your continued support. Big hugs, Pat

[molly muffin]

We'll blubber with you :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[molly muffin]

How how is Mr. Peety today and his mom?

Anything else on getting a sooner appointment?

Just checking in on you two. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Okay, two people now are having decent luck with ketochlor. I think you can get it from your vet, it's a shampoo. You'll want to check the directions for use, but Addy and Julie have both used it.
Any luck on a sooner appointment?
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks, Sharlene, I'll check with my Vet. I did some research and read some reviews. It sounds as good as anything else. Worth a try. What were the reasons they were using it? Was it CC, or just skin problems? Have not gotten a call on an earlier appt yet. I guess that Dr. is only there until noon so there are only a few appts anyway. I'll try again Monday. He's doing good. My sweet boy, The honey regime is 100%...no doubt about it...Messy :D:D:D:D Have I abandoned it, not exactly, but I have enough to give me facials for a loooooooooooooong time :D:D

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[infoviewer]

Pat: So sorry Peety has not found his regular vet yet, but you seem to be doing a very good job yourself taking care of him. I like my vets, but none of them seem to have treated too many Cushing pups. They are all willing to try to help CoCo with whatever I ask. I think Cushing is an elusive disease with many different symptoms and hard to treat. I think CoCo has had all of them. I just keep trying to find ways to help him. He is bothered by diarrhea now and the Metronidazole does not seem to be helping. I just keep trying to help him. I get the most information from this forum and from the internet and I know that is what you are doing since you have found the honey to help Peety's skin. I feel like this forum is more help than the vets since the people here have the experience with their pups. Maybe you will find a vet this week and get a true diagnosis. You are doing a great job. Love, JoAnne

[molly muffin]

I think it was skin problems they were/are treating for with the shampoo. How is Peety doing?

Got to run to work.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

JoAnn Is CoCo still doing okay with his skin? I agree that most vets treat by trial and error, at least in this area. And they don't really want you to know. Well, I hope the IM Dr. I am seeing Monday will have a better idea of where we go from here. You're right most information on this disease is from people that have lived and breathed it every day. Peety still doesn't present any signs of Cushing's, it's mostly the skin problem. So I would be real happy if they said no Cushing's and just concentrate on the skin. But I also know that I don't know what is going on internally so I cannot second guess at this point. He is still doing good and tolerates whatever I do to him. My sweet boy. Just wish I had one little itty bitty sign that something is working. Maybe tomorrow:) Big hugs Pat Peetty's#1 fan

[infoviewer]

Hey Pat: CoCo still only has a few calcium deposits on his tail, but his hair is so thin, makes him look like one of those little abused dogs. He is having trouble with soft stools and diarrhea now which is worrisome since I cannot seem to figure out what is causing it. I know you will be glad to find out for sure if Peety has Cushings. It would be wonderful if he does not. I will think happy thoughts for him. Take care. Love, JoAnne

[molly muffin]

When does Peety have his appointment? Is it next week? Hope everything is going okay. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Monday. Don't know if they will want more test or if they will react to the ones I have. He's doing good. Still doing the honey and I found out yesterday my cousin who has diabetic sores is using the Manuka honey. I read it is the best thing to treat wounds with. I do believe it has changed the appearance of the skin I am treating. I believe in it. Maybe a longer process but at least this way he does not have to take oral antibiotics. And he is still happy as can be.

[Budsters Mom]

I am so glad to hear that the honey is helping and Peety is not needing oral antibiotics. That is terrific news!:D Love to hear good news!:D:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Mel-Tia]

Good you can see the honey helping.

I used sudocream on Tia as it helped with the itching and inflammation.We only had to use anti biotics a couple of times and princess got it twice so I also believe in natural where possible.

Hope all goes well on Monday, will be looking out for his report

Sticky kisses for the little man and a hug for you :D

Mel
Xxxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Great news Pat. Glad you are seeing some results with the honey.
They say that stuff is awesome. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I do not understand how anyone can be in the business of caring and not care. I waited in the Dr's office (in an exam room) for 20 minutes when I went up to the desk and told the girl I did not think they knew I was there. She said oh yes, they do, they will be up in a minute. I waited another 10 min when a tech came in. I told her I had been there 30 min, she said she was sorry that they have a new computer system....wait right there....What does that have to do with me, a live person waiting in a room for 30 minutes. :confused::confused::confused: So she took the info on Peety and said the Dr would be in shortly. I waited another 15 minutes and then took my lil guy and left. AND...I was the only person there. They have 6 exam rooms and I was the only one there. So I decided if that is how they were going to treat us on the first visit then they would not get a 2nd visit. So I went down the street to a Vet that I went to many years ago. I asked the receptionist if they treated Cushing's and she said yes. I have an appt tomorrow. Dr Morgan who I know real well is on vacation, but at least I can get in and get started with another Dr. She was the Dr that treated my Bassett for Lymphoma. She was wonderful.

So another day and m a y b e we will be a lil closer to getting something done for my lovable - more than patient - sweetie pie.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry!:( There is so much technology right now. I think some people have forgotten how to relate to others and the young ones haven't had a chance to learn. Manners and conversing with people face to face are lost skills. There is no excuse for such unprofessionalism! :mad: I would be furious!!:mad: I hope you're able to get some help for Peety at tomorrow's appointment.:o

Hugs,
Kathy

[Mel-Tia]

Me too, it's beyond frustrating.

You build yourself up for these things so it creates more stress. I do hope you both get somewhere tomorrow

Big hug, sticky kisses for the little man

Mel
Xxxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks guys. I am not hard to get along with, really. I just want the best care...from the best person for my lil guy, that is not too much to ask. And so far no one has put Peety first and that is hugh for me. I have almost decided that since January he has not gotten a lot worse and so left up to my own devices, I think I am doing a pretty okay job taking care of him. The place I went to today is a specialty place with a lot of Dr's. with a lot of degrees in an environment so sterile it is stripped of personality and professionalism.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rol leyes: Seriously.....And you know, no one chased me down to try to make it right. :(:( And it is stressful for me too, but I can do stress as long as I am doing the right thing for him.

It makes me sick and sad. But having said that, I will continue in my search for the right person to take care of my best bud. I feel comfortable with Dr. Morgan. She is ahead of the times. 20+ years ago she did Chemo on my Libby. So I know I can trust her with his care.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

OMG Pat, that is awful!!! I would have left to, but not before giving them a piece of my mind probably. LOL I know I shouldn't distribute the pieces out all willy nilly, cause you never know when I might need them back, but sometimes it's just worth it.

This is the place where you had to wait 2 weeks to get in to the see the specialist and then she only works half a day or something like that?
What a crock.

Now, has Dr. Morgan every seen Peety? Gather up all your files to take with you so you don't have to retest anything.

Hugs Pat, I think you are doing a good job. Just do a quick review of those labs that we talked about last month, because there were some values on there that need to be addressed by a vet. okay~ you're doing wonderful! Just hang in there!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

No, She has not seen Peety. I left all the test results from other places so they can review them before the appt. Oh, BTW, Sharlene, I did leave a few pieces there, I was so mad. :D:D:D Yes, this was the place where she is only there 1/2 days and it took 2 weeks to get an appt. Apparently she spends those 1/2 days in the back drinking coffee....or whatever....

There are not a lot of IM Dr's around here. Sadly, though, he not only needs an IM Vet, he needs a good overall vet that can address all issues. You know he is almost 12. So life threatening or not he has normal needs that a vet normally tends to. I know Dr Morgan will be a good person for him. And if she has to refer me to someone else, she will be very involved in that referral. So tomorrow I am looking forward to Peety meeting Dr. Morgan.:)

[molly muffin]

Good for you Pat!!! I'm just really irritated with them on your behalf. grrrrrrrrr
I'm really looking forward to hearing what tomorrow brings and hoping for some good discussion between you and the vet and a plan! You're right, Peety deserves the best.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Me too. I have wonderful memories of her and previous fur-babies. I remember one time, I had a 17 y/o daschund, she had treated for years and she was having seizures and it was the weekend and she called me to see how we were doing and we sat and cried on the phone together. And my Libby that had lymphoma, she had previously delivered 11 puppies for her, then later treated her for cancer. So we go back a ways and she has just the biggest and best heart in the whole world. Can't wait to see her again.

[molly muffin]

She sounds like good people, good vet.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Grrrrr sometimes I feel like charging them for my time, we are busy people too! That is so rude if she is out the back drinking coffee... hope all goes well with your visit tomorrow.

I have been meaning to tell you that Manuka Honey has been on the news here recently in NZ, someone was in trouble for packing it up and sending heaps overseas for a profit as it was so expensive to buy, I think they sent it to Japan! Seems it is quite an industry posting it overseas :) I still find it funny that we grew up putting it on our toast and now it has all these great medicinal properties, glad to hear it is helping Peety :)

[infoviewer]

Pat: That is so frustrating, but you handled it beautifully. Peety is so lucky to have you. Your old vet will be wonderful. Love, JoAnne

[molly muffin]

Checking in to see how things went today! Hoping for some good news. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I'm joining Sharlene in her quest for good news. :)I hope the vet is awesome! Peety needs a fresh perspective and so do you!:rolleyes::p

Hugs,
Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and well wishes to you and Peety, hope vet goes well..

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Good news and bad news. I didn't see the Dr. today. I called today to ask if it was a good idea for me to see another Dr. when I wanted Dr. Morgan to be the primary Dr. They told me probably best to wait for Dr. Morgan. She will be back Tuesday, so we have an appt then. She owns this Animal Hospital. So I am happy to start at the top. Yes, another delay, but it's good. I mean I'm good with it. Just worried that you guys are gonna stop following this thread because it doesn't go anywhere. AWWWWWWWWWWWW, but it will, I promise. Peety is good right now and I know this is a good thing. I'm happy, and my best bud is the one this is all about so it's a good thing.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[mytil]

Hey,

I have not posted but have been following and there is no way we could stop following your cutie pie.

I am glad you have some good news and Peety is doing good.

Terry

[molly muffin]

Good lord. No way. We don't stop following threads around this joint. Lol. We're in it for the long haul ya know.
If you are good with waiting for Dr. Morgan to get back then so are we. Whether you post all the time or just when you want we'll be here. A new post will bump your thread to the 1st page no matter how long it is between post. Just so you know and won't worry. For me it will sende an email since I subscribe.
See nothing to worry about. Plus I'll big you anyway. Hahahaha
Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin.

[molly muffin]

Argh iPhone typing is baaaaad!

[Peety's Fur-mom]

you guys are the best....:D:D This is always a nice place to come to... Thanks for making it that way...Pat

[molly muffin]

Awww thanks. We like you being here too. :) Sort of works out for all of us. haha
Sharlene and the muffin head

[Peety's Fur-mom]

We had a good visit with Dr. Morgan. She loved Peety but she is stumped by his skin condition. She said she had never seen it. Calcium yes, but what he has now is not typical Calcinosis Cutis. She does not think he has cushings. 2nd Dr. to say that. Even seeing the report. She said yes, values elevated some but no symptoms of a Cush pup. She hasn't ruled it out. She is going to make some calls tomorrow and do some research. She said she would call me when she has something. She said everything I was doing was all good. She was surprised at how happy he was. He doesn't show any signs of distress even with his skin being so bad. It doesn't itch him. So all of this is atypical. But I am confident she will get to the bottom of this. Told her about the IM Dr and the Derm Dr. And that I was sorry that I had not come to her in the beginning. I know now, I will never go anywhere else. She's a real gem. So we will see. For now he is doing good and he is happy, so guess what?, that makes me real happy.:D:D:D

[Budsters Mom]

When our babies are happy we are happy!;):) I'm glad you found a vet for Peety that you really like. It is interesting that the vet doesn't think Peety has Cushing's. What does she think it is, or is that why she's doing research? There has to be something that can be done about that rash, but I guess they have to determine what it is first. Could it be a severe allergic reaction to something?:confused:
Hugs to you both,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hi Pat, so glad you had a good meeting with Dr. Morgan. Did you mention the black skin disease that we found on the net?


Find a veterinarian who is familiar with black skin disease, and has experience with diagnosis and treatment. It takes an experienced veterinarian to diagnose this disease, as black skin disease can masquerade as Cushing's Syndrome


Black skin disease, also called alopecia X and pseudo-Cushing's Syndrome, usually appears when a dog is between one and five years old, and causes severe hair loss, hyperpigmentation or darkening of the skin, and occasionally a foul odor.


It's easy to see how some doctors might automatically go to cushings if this is what it is. I think it is something for Dr. Morgan to research at least.

That Peety is happy is the most important part of all of this. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

We talked about black skin disease. She will look into that as well. She wants to find out if there is something going on internally that is causing this. It may not be Cushing's. But it may be something else. She said her Cushing pups, did present Cushing symptoms. He does not have any symptoms associated with Cushing's. I refuse to believe that Peety has something that no one has ever seen or treated. It's baffling for sure, but there is an answer and I am determined to find it. And I know Dr. Morgan will help me do that. So for now, my lil guy is happy and when I see how excited he gets when we play ball in the backyard, I know he isn't pretending to feel good. He does and I love that. He makes my day and I am determined to make all of his happy and healthy.

Peety's#1 fan

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Pat, you go girl, I'm sure you will find out about Peety's condition, I love your determination, its inspiring....so glad to hear that Peety is happy!!!

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish it were simple. But it's not. My lil guy has a problem that so far is a mystery at best, but it is not a deal breaker. We don't stop looking just because we haven't found an answer yet. Hey, we're just getting started. :D:D:D

Peety's #1 fan

[Trish]

HI Pat and Peety! Your Dr Mogan sounds the bomb!! Yay I like how she is off researching what is best for your boy! Hoping she gets the answers real soon! Sounds like he is quite comfy though, that is all due to his Mom's diligence, your the bomb as well :) :)

[labblab]

Hi Pat,

I'm just curious as to whether Dr. Morgan has discussed Peety's abnormal kidney values with you in any detail yet? If they are being caused by Cushing's, then we could expect to see improvement once the Cushing's itself was treated. But if Cushing's ends up being taken off the table, then I would think you'd want to pursue some additional diagnostics regarding those kidney abnormalities. Just wanted to mention it again so that it doesn't fall by the wayside.

Also, I am again wondering why another vet seems to be dismissing the derm vet's actual biopsy result confirming the Calcinosis Cutis. Does Dr. Morgan think the biopsy was improperly analyzed? Or does she agree that it may be CC, but just not caused by Cushing's (although uncommon, there can be causes other than Cushing's/steroids)? Overall, I am confused about Dr. Morgan saying that it is "calcium," but not necessarily CC...

Marianne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thanks for all the comments. The skin has changed since the biopsy was done. At that time it was definitely calcium pushed through the skin. It looked like lil warts and he was itchy all the time. Now it is black and very hard. Cannot penetrate it. He has 2 places, one on his side and the other on his back, by his tail. And the bald spots are also going away. His hair is coming back and it is even popping through the hard black skin. Which I still believe if it is not somewhat healthy underneath it would not have hair follicles that are growing. It's hard to explain. Dr Morgan hasn't seen this, in her experience CC is just calcium deposits on the outside of the skin.

I'm not sure what is going on with the kidneys. I have seen 3 Dr's and not one has reacted to that. Maybe because the Cushing's has always managed to be the topic of concern. But I will address this with her and see if she wants to do her own blood work to see where we are right now. I certainly don't want his health jeopardized because we didn't address all the issues presented with the blood work. I've learned to ask a lot of questions of these Dr's. Somehow I think they would rather you just nod your head in agreement to anything they say. But I can't do that. And Dr. Morgan's approach is to get the answers and I believe she will.

[labblab]

Thanks so much for this additional info. Now I understand much better why so many questions remain about Peety's skin. I've got my fingers crossed that you'll soon get some answers!

Marianne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Everyday for the past 6 months and I have watched his skin go from horrible to absolutely unexplainable. Today my brother came by and asked how he was doing. When I was trying to explain what it looked like, he said he looks like he's turning into a soft-shelled turtle :eek::eek::eek:. I said that is a great way to explain it. Except not soft in any way. Maybe a hard-shelled turtle :D:D:D. I have read that some CC can be operated on. Maybe that is what they meant. Before I couldn't imagine how they could remove CC, but if it is contained maybe it can be removed. Good question for my next discussion with Dr. Morgan. I will try to post some new pictures and see if I can get a picture that shows up well. Actually I am happy to see his skin is showing signs of improvement in other areas. The black skin on his stomach (not hard, just black) is gone and it was pretty bad. So maybe the vitamins or the brewers yeast have helped it. Maybe the coconut oil, or the Manuka honey, or the salt water. I don't care that I can't pin that down, I am just happy to see these improvements. He is wearing his cone less every day, because his skin has settled down. It's just ugly, but ugly apparently doesn't itch anymore. So maybe internally things have changed too.

Well, I'm just rambling, but some things have improved and I have to be thankful for every lil improvement. He is still my beautiful lil buddy. It's funny, Peety has always loved:):) backrubs. And now even with this crazy stuff going on he still loves his back rubbed. He is absolutely in another world when I do it. I can't rub his whole back, mostly just his sides and he is just in heaven. He makes me laugh he is so funny. So there are positive things that I see and that is my daily encouragement.
Thanks for all of your concern and support. This continues to be a learning experience. Hugs to all of you.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Dr Morgan called. She said she talked to someone at Auburn University today. She said he told her he had a dog right now that looked like a soft shelled turtle. That is too funny. That just today that reference was made. Unbelievable. So someone does get it. Finally, progress. Anyway, she wants to rule out the effect of the steroids on his system. He was on steroids early part of the year. So I am getting those records faxed over to her today and she will review everything that has been done and it will give her a better idea of what has transpired over the past 6 months. Also we are going to redo the Cushing's test. She said she wasn't overly concerned about the kidneys, she saw the levels were elevated, but said there were a couple of reasons that could have shown up and she didn't spend a lot of time on that. So another blood test will answer a lot of questions. She said it was possible that he was not Cushinoid and his skin could get better on it's on. She is still a little baffled that he has no symptoms. I knew Dr. Morgan would jump right on this. I knew I wouldn't be disappointed. So step one, new Dr., step 2 new tests, step 3, answers. Hopefully.:D:D:D I am already encouraged in one visit with her. Boy, how much time has been wasted over the past few months. It's nice to finally have someone react appropriately to this situation. Instead of just scratching their head. My lil buddy is in good hands now.:D:D

[labblab]

I think it's great that she's starting again at the beginning, and especially that she is reviewing Peety's earlier steroid use. It's funny, but I was thinking earlier this morning that I wanted to go back and re-read your thread in that regard, too. When I wrote that part about CC most often being related to Cushing's or steroid use, I was reminded that Peety had indeed had prednisone treatment earlier in the year.

I'm also pleased that Dr. Morgan consulted with Auburn. I really think they are an outstanding vet school and I know they have researchers on staff that are very familiar with Cushing's. So let's see what we find out this time around. ;)

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

It looks like you're finally going to be able to get the help you need. That is awesome!:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Yay, so glad to hear that Dr. Morgan is really going to town trying to figure this out!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Hi! Any news on Peety from Dr Morgan, hoping some progress is being made and he is still feeling good :D Every time I have honey on my toast I think of Peety!! :D

[addy]

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=533212&sk=&date=&pageID=2

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=715262&sk=&date=&pageID=4

There are so many articles on DVM360 regarding dematology issues. They also give case studies that are interesting and we can gain insight from.

I was looking back to find an article I found that also gave other causes for calcinosis cutis but have not come across it yet. I'll keep looking. What can happen is they may start with cc but then develop pruitis on top of the cc so the cc becomes an underlying condition.

I do remember one case study where the dog's skin was very troublesome to the dog and they gave him whirpool treatments in Betadine Iodine mixed with water. But I think you said your pup is not itchy or painful, right?

I am hoping Dr. Morgan will come across something as maybe it is not calcinosis cutis.

[Budsters Mom]

I hope you were able to get some answers soon :) Have they figured out exactly what it is yet? Come on docs, let's get this solved!;) big hugs,
Kathy

[Simba's Mom]

Is there a sign up sheet for giving Peety back rubs? I'm in, I will be over shortly!!!! Praying the vet helps you soon, sending hugs too!!

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi everyone, We had a delay because the other Vet did not get the records faxed over until yesterday. Dr Morgan called today, we are going to do more blood work on Monday. She wants to look at the liver and kidney values again to see what is going on there. She thinks he is atypical for Cushing's. No symptoms but the skin issues. The Dr. at Auburn said even if this was related to the predisone it could take a year for his skin to get back to normal. Otherwise he is good, Happy and playing. Our routine is the same. He loves his bath now. He volunteers to get in the shower now. One day, I was calling him to come get in the shower, I called and called and I turned around and he was already right behind me in the shower. He looked at me like "WHAT":D:D:D He's my sweet boy and we have a lot of fun playing ball and taking long walks. Yes, he would love more back rubs, he would be so spoiled rotten, :):) oops, too late, he already is.

Hope all lil fur bundles are happy today and all is well. Big hugs to all of you..

Peety's #1 fan

[molly muffin]

Awww Peety is just adorable! I can't believe he loves his showers! Wish I could get molly to think they are great. LOL
Well, now that Dr. Morgan has the file and test results, she can get a better idea of where to go next. So that is really good.
As long as Peety is so happy and playing ball and just having a great time, then it's okay and I'm sure that they'll eventually get to the bottom of this.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

We can all learn a lesson from Peety. Still playing, still walking, he doesn't let anything get him down. Go Peety!! Great job mom!!
Hugs,
Kathy

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I have a question. What is "atypical" Cushing's as compared to Cushings? Dr. Morgan mentioned atypical but also said he has no symptoms except the skin issue. I thought she meant it wasn't Cushing's but had some characteristics. She keeps saying she does not think he is cushinoid.:confused::confused: I read about atypical and apparently the symptoms are excessive drinking, peeing, eating, muscle weakness etc. I thought that was for Cushing's. Peety has none of that. I'm confused. Someone share their knowledge, please. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Squirt's Mom]

Atypical Cushing's involves elevations in one or more of the intermediate, or sometimes called sex, hormones - Estradiol, Androstenedione, 17-Hydroxyprogesterone, Progesterone and Aldosterone. In Atypical, the cortisol is NORMAL. If the cortisol is elevated, even along with elevation in any of these five hormones, the pup is considered to have true, or conventional, Cushing's, not Atypical. The key to distinguishing between the two is the cortisol.

The signs for Atypical can be the same as those for conventional Cushing's - only the labs can tell if it is cortisol or the intermediates at play. The only place I know of that tests for Atypical is the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. If the pup has not had lab work done at UTK, the diagnosis of Atypical cannot be made. The test at UTK is basically an expanded ACTH - it tests for the cortisol as well as these five intermediate hormones. UTK calls this test a "full adrenal panel".

Atypical is treated initially with melatonin and lignans for at least four months as it take that long for the treatment to work. The melatonin and lignans can address all the intermediate hormones that are produced in the adrenal glands, even the Estradiol which can be produced outside the adrenals. If the melatonin and lignans do not lower the intermediates enough, then Lysodren is added to mix as maintenance only (given 2-4 times a week) - there is no loading phase with Atypical. Lysodren works only on the adrenal glands themselves and cannot reach Estradiol if it is produced outside the adrenals so the combination of the lignans, melatonin, and Lyso is required if the lignans and melatonin don't work well enough alone.

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thank you Leslie for that great text book explanation. I definitely came to the right place for answers. Wow, you really know a lot about this subject. I guess I should just wait and see. I believe Dr. Morgan will get the answers. We'll start with tomorrows blood work and go from there.
Thanks again for the info.
Hugs
Peety's#1 fan

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Blood work showed nothing alarming. She said the liver values were normal and the white cell count was also normal. She wants to do another blood test in a month to look at his kidney and thyroid. She didn't think anything needed immediate attention. She still believes his skin is a result of the prednisone and should get better over time. She said to watch for excessive drinking and peeing and weight loss. Otherwise he is good and I am confident that his skin will start showing signs of improvement. He's still beautiful to me. I need to read back in the posts, because someone mentioned something about a medicine they got for the skin. I will do that and get with her for a script. Maybe something that will help. Anyway, I will get a copy of the test and post in a couple of days.

Hope all is well and everyone has a nice 4th. Peety doesn't get to bothered anymore with the firecrackers, cause his hearing is not so good :(:( So I don't have to worry about that any more. :):)

Pat Peety's #1 fan.

[Mel-Tia]

Hi Pat

Some good news for Peety. Sounds like you are happy with Dr Morgan.

I used a topical steroid spray called cortavance but am not sure that would be appropriate for him. I think DMSO is the other thing sometimes used but that honks of garlic apparently :eek:

Pleased to hear he is doing well despite the skin issues

Big hug to you and sticky kisses to the little man

Mel
Xxxxx

[khockman]

Hi Pat -

I just posted this on another thread so figured I would copy here as well as it may apply:

Our English Bulldog Millie was just recently diagnosed with Cushings and she has a horrific case of CC…to the point where her dermatologist awarded her “Worst Case she has ever seen Award”…woo-hoo go Millie! I can certainly sympathize with you as the CC can be very aggressive and extremely difficult to manage. It starts as open, oozing sores, then scabs over a blackish color and then when scab falls off, there seems to be hardened pink skin below (her trunk kind of looks as if she is a soft shelled turtle). My little girl started with two spots that kind of opened and seeped, and within two weeks it was on her face, neck and down her trunk (8-12 inches wide). IT WAS AWFUL and I know you probably feel helpless as it spreads, but I continue to get feedback that sometimes it just gets worse until it gets better…patience is not one of my strong suits! We started her on Trilostane on 6/29, and I swear I stare at her skin hourly to see if any improvement…but if there is, it is SLOW! Seems like it is not progressing as fast, but then again this skin disease has taken over 1/3 of her body already.

When contacting my Dermatologist I asked her about the possibility of using Sudocrem or Manuka honey (as recommended by others). She asked me to stay the course and said no to the Sudocrem (I think her sores were more open than the cushpups mom that used this with success) and said honey did cross her mind, but given the extent of the problem, thought it would be an unbelievable mess – which I probably can concur with – although it would smell a heck of a lot better than the rotten garlic smell of DMSO…I will never get garlic on pizza again! When I say stay the course, she is a little too difficult to bathe right now and makes her so uncomfortable, so we are using an antibacterial mousse (once a day on all lesions: face, neck, trunk) – It is DUOXA Chlorhexidine + Climbazole Mousse with phytoshingosine. She is not thrilled when this goes on her face cheeks and I feel it may be hurting her. She also gave us Comfort Spray by Animal Pharmaceuticals which she recommended spraying on face 2-3 per day. Millie will have nothing to do with a spray bottle coming at her face, so she recommended soaking a paper towel and dabbing. Millie seems to be okay with this…

Hope this helps with Dear Peety!

xoxox,
Kerry (Millie's Mama)

[molly muffin]

Oh yea, so glad that Peety's liver values and others look good. This is excellent news.

I think what you are thinking of is the ketochlor that Addy and someone else is using with success. Speak with Dr. Morgan about it and then get instructions for use she thinks it might help.

Well, you know prednisone can cause different things in different dogs. In some they end up losing hair and getting red and scaly. (my golden had this occur from prednisone) Peety maybe just had to be his own dog and go with the black crust. I hope that is what it is actually because if so, then it should eventually clear and he'll get his coat back. Not that I think he probably cares one way or another as long as he can run around and play with you. Happiest little guy.

Have a wonderful 4th!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Kerry, I am so sorry you are dealing with this too, but I am so happy somebody else can relate to how bad it is. You described it pretty well. Dr Morgan said the Dr. at Auburn said a dog he was treating looked like a soft shelled turtle.:eek::eek::eek: It's crazy isn't it, but it's true. Peety's has finally stopped evolving. His back has 2 places, one on his side and the other on his rump. Both are hard black masses. They don't do anything. They don't itch, or ooze, there just there. I bath him every other day in Hibiclens (a surgical wash). I am using Manuka honey, but it is messy. I put it on and then wrap him up really good so it doesn't ooze out. I believe in it, but think it's gonna take a long time for anything to penetrate that black elephant skin. I also use coconut oil. His hair is actually growing in the middle of the black mass. Crazy but I'm thinking eventually the hair will win out. The hair there is getting thicker. He had a lot of bald spots, but those have also filled back in. His skin on his belly is black, but no sores. Nothing on his face or ears. He wears a cone and a t-shirt, but is wearing the cone less and less. Maybe about half the time now. He use to scratch a lot and I think I am just afraid that he might do it again. Although now he doesn't itch, but he just licks his feet sometimes, like dogs do. But better safe than sorry. My Derm Dr. gave me DMSO, but too toxic to use. Peety has not had anything open in a long time. When he did I used Neosporin.

Dr. Morgan told me she had never seen anything like this either. Wish I could say that. His started with a tiny sore on his neck, that was 6 months ago today. We had sores, at first, his legs were raw, where his hair fell out and it was horrible. He wouldn't let me touch them even to doctor them. :(:(. I put lil pants on him so his legs wouldn't rub anything. Thank God we are past that. I think we are seeing the better side of this, still not good, but better, not itchy or sore anymore. Just ugly. Not him though, he's my beautiful boy. The disease is ugly. I have spent a lot of $$$$ and I think I have come up with the best ways of treating it on my own and from others on this forum.
If I find anything else that works I will let you know. Check out Peety's album to see if it looks the same as Millie's. And give Millie an extra big hug.
Hang in there, and maybe try not to look at it so much. I know how it is, I did the same thing, I just wanted to see something that looked like it was an improvement. Try the Hibiclens (drug store) you can wash with it without getting a full bath.
Take care,

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[khockman]

Oh my - I can relate, but it just seems like a painful road ahead! Looked at the album, and poor Peety! Sounds like you are on the road to recovery though...Must admit, I like the elephant skin reference - so true!

You have convinced me that I need to stop staring - big hugs to Peety as well and glad I have someone to reach out to regarding this awful problem. I will try to upload pics of my sweet baby girl. I have just been too horrified to share them for fear they are too graphic and not for the weak stomach!

xoxox,
Kerry

[molly muffin]

Hi Kerry
I don't think there is such a thing as too graphic for us. We are most of us it seems always on poop patrol and let me tell you we get Very graphic! LOL I haven't yet encountered anything we won't talk about in detail or take a picture of and share so as to get the other members input on. Feel free to join in. It's down right liberating. hahaha
Peety I think is doing really well thanks to his very smart mom and you,ll have Millie turned around eventually too. I am really glad that you found each other. We are all different and yet we are the same. We're really just one big family. hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I worried at first that they were to graphic, but to see it for what it is you have to put them out there. When I first started researching CC I found some pictures I kinda looked at with one eye closed. I was horrified, and the big thing was I knew my lil guy may end up looking that bad. I didn't want to look, I was so scared. Some days I would just hold him and cry. I would cry thinking about him during the day at work. I couldn't wait to get home to see him. I cried for weeks. But when it's your lil fur baby you don't see the grossness of it, not when you look in their eyes and see that sweetness. And you know they are depending on you to find something to make it all better. It's not fair to have to see them like this, but I know one thing for sure I will do anything to make him better. And if I can help someone else going through this I will happily do so.

Hugs to both of you.

[khockman]

Your are so right - no matter how bad she looks, she still has the same beauty in my eyes. I just pray she is not completely uncomfortable. For many years she has always been so slow to come down stairs in the morning, so I started singing "There she is....Miss America..." and I swear she would trot down...We of course still do that!

I hope Peety is doing well today!

xoxox,
Kerry

[Peety's Fur-mom]

How cute...I love that :D:D:D I tell Peety all the time he is my handsome boy. I've gotten so I don't see the CC as much, just his sweet personality. I know that we have progressed a lot. He is not uncomfortable or distressed at all. But many weeks and months he was. He was on antibiotics for several weeks. I was glad because that was during the time his sores were open. Now it is just there and doing nothing but being ugly.

Happy 4th, hope "Miss America" is getting tons of attention today....
Big hugs...

Pat and Peety

[khockman]

Happy 4th back to you, and yes, "ugly" is relative! Miss America is spoiled rotten...and I am ok with that right now :)

xoxox,
Kerry

[molly muffin]

Hi! Just thought I'd check in and see how you and Peety are doing :)

hope all is going well! We're having crazy humidity here, so lots of indoor time.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[lulusmom]

I will be posting this on four members' threads, all of whom are dealing with calcinosis cutis. Kerry, Millie's Mama; Crystal, Annabelle's Mama; Shelly, Lucy's Mama and Pat, Peety's Mama.

I've seen too many dogs on Trilostane who have either had little to no effect on Calcinosis Cutis or a worsening effect while on the drug. Based on the frequency with which we've seen calcinosis cutis on this forum, there seems to be a correlation with the increased popularity of Trilostane for treatment of cushing's. I've had a gut feeling for a very long time that Trilostane is responsible for worsening calcinosis cutis due to it's effects on the sex hormones. Dr. Oliver, was the leading expert on adrenal steroids and he firmly believed that 11-deoxycortisol levels build-up in dogs being treated with Trilostane as did other intermediate steroid such as androstenedione, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and progesterone. I've never been able to find anything in layman's terms that explains the affect, if any, these steroids have on calcium metabolism. While searching for that connection, I stumbled upon something even better. It was an abstract of a study entitled, "Canine hyperadrenocorticism: effects of trilostane on parathyroid hormone, calcium and phosphate concentrations". The last sentence of that abstract was eye opening.


[B]Despite no significant difference between calcium concentrations in the pretreatment HAC and control groups, calcium concentrations increased significantly with treatment....and....These results show that adrenal secondary hyperparathyroidism resolves with treatment and suggest that increased calcium and phosphate levels have a role in its pathogenesis./B]

It looks to me that cortisol isn't the only adrenal steroid that can cause elevations in blood calcium levels. Dr. David Bruyette, a renown endocrine expert, readily admits that he has had bad luck in resolving cc with trilostane. That's pretty telling coming from a high profile specialist who is a contributor to Dechra's continuing education program for veterinarians. This is not a new study. As a matter of fact, I believe it may have been published before Vetoryl was approved by the FDA.

You can find the complete abstract here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2005.tb00283.x/abstract

I'm just sharing my thoughts with those of you who may want to start asking more questions of your vets....or you may even consider calling Dechra, the manufacture of Vetoryl (Trilostane). I'd be very interested to hear what they have to say about this study.

Glynda

[labblab]

For folks who want to share general thoughts and comments about this study that Glynda has found, I've created a new thread in which our comments can be consolidated all in one place:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5509

Marianne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi everyone, We are doing really good.:):) Peety is much improved. He still has a couple of black spots, but other than that his hair is coming back nicely and he has no more bald spots. So I really do think that his skin issues were the result of the prednisone. He feels great, and I can't ask for more than that.

I continue to follow other threads and I am saddened at the loss of any lil fur babies and the continuing struggle that some are having. It's not fair to have to see our lil ones suffer. I feel so blessed that at this moment in time we are not facing any crisis. And I will continue to pray for all of you that have that fight on their hands. Peety and I send big hugs to all of you.:):)

[molly muffin]

I am so glad to hear that Peety is getting his fur back!!! YAY!!! That is the best news and yes, it sure does sound like it was the prednison, which is very possible. I'm just thrilled for both you and Peety! :) :) :)

Yes, it is very sad when we lose one of our furbabies. :( Some days are not good ones, but then other days we get good news like yours and that makes everyone smile.

HUGS
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Pat

Just wondering how you and the little man are?

I have been away and juts caught up to see he has fur growing, that must have been such a happy moment for you. I can't tell you in words how pleased I was to read this.

Big hug to you and sticky kisses for Petey

Mel
Xxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

We are doing good. Peety has an apt Wed to have Dr. Morgan look at his eyes. His cateracts are getting worse and I can tell he is going more on sound (although that is limited as well) than sight. But I don't know if there is much that can be done. I'm also going to ask if there is anything else that can be done for the black skin. The hair is coming back but the black skin is not bugging. Otherwise he is a happy boy so that makes me happy.

Except tonight when I just read about Ugga. I am so sad. This site is helpful and heartbreaking at the same time. Thanks for your concern about Peety. On days like today I just hug him a little tighter.
Pat

[molly muffin]

Some days are quite hard. :(

I'm glad to hear that Peety continues to do well. Poor guy, eye sight and hearing. Sucks getting older, some days more than others. Dogs are pretty adaptable, better than people, so I'm sure that he will continue to be happy and will figure out how to manage if it is worse eyesight and hearing.

Molly is so tired of me hugging on her, she is getting grumpy about it. :D

hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Hi! Just wanted to check in and see how you and Peety have been.

Hope that all is going well.

thinking of you
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Dawn, I am a member but have not been active for a while. Thought I would look in and see how everyone is doing and see new members and their concerns with their fur babies. So sorry your lil one has CC. It is horrible, We were first introduced to it Jan 3rd of this year. Peety is not Cushing's and we just recently did blood work again with no positive results in that area. Thank God. The CC was dormant for a few months, by that I mean no new break outs and the ones that were there turned into black hard calcium that would not budge and still haven't. About 1 month ago the CC flared it's ugly head again and worse this time. He now is covered with calcium sores, but not open and bleeding. His hair is coming out in clumps. You can see from his album the CC from the first go around. About 2 weeks ago the worse nightmare, Peety's tongue turned white and was hanging out of his mouth. I freaked. The Vet told me his tongue was dead???? and could not offer any reason other than she thought the whole CC thing was probably responsible. Dead, I immediately knew in my gut that he would die from starvation. She put him on antibiotics by syringe and I was feeding and hydrating by syringe just to keep him alive. He lost 5 lbs. I took him to another vet that did not know either what would cause that to happen to the tongue but he showed me the end of his tongue was gone, but it wasn't dead. The color had returned to a normal pink and the swelling was gone. He said there was only a small place that looked like it was healing still. For a few days he would go to his water bowl and just stand there and look at it, but he must have known his tongue was to sore to use. I cried all weekend and had to force feed him, but I was determined he was not going to starve on my watch. I did a lot of praying and we did get a miracle, he started drinking on his own and now he is eating on his own. He has regained almost 2 lbs. One theory is that the calcium that appears on the outside of his body may have manifested itself on the end of his tongue and it just fell off. But I don't really know. I know when I have had a sore tongue how it hurts to eat. So he knew that and now that it is almost healed he has learned to eat and drink again without the tip. He still will not play with his toys but I am hoping after some time he will see that he can. They bring so much joy to him. Apparently the CC is not the only problem. His blood work shows some kidney issues. So we are transitioning to a more appropriate diet for the kidneys. For his CC I am just bathing him in Hibiclens and I use Neosporin on any bad places. He is back to wearing his cone and t-shirt. But I try to leave the cone off as much as possible. His hair had almost grown back from the first go around, but I may have to cut if off again just so I can see all the places that need attention.

Hope you are able to get to a point where the CC subsides and Butters is more comfortable. It really is horrific and this round is worse in that it covers more area, but the sores are not open and bleeding. What are you using to control it? Anything your vet recommends? I actually could not rely on their knowledge, so I just do my own research. I know when Peety is uncomfortable and I will do anything I can to make him comfortable.

Blessings to you both. Pat, Peety's #1 fan

Administrative Note: Reply copied from its placement on another member's thread so that members can reply directly here.

[molly muffin]

Hi Pat, I saw you just posted about Peety on the cc thread. Oh dear, I wonder, did you ever take him to the University to see if they had any ideas? Dawn is taking Butter to University Davis in California, where they did radiation treatments on the pituitary tumor so we are all hoping that the cc will get more under control as that comes down.

Thing is that Not just cushings can cause the cortisol to go. If there is anything else wrong, kidneys, etc, the cortisol can raise and cause the same problems or high intermediate hormones too. So those are things to maybe look into.

I'm so sorry that Peety had another outbreak and then the tongue problem too. :( such a little trooper. You know you are family Pat, so you Can come in any ole time you want to have a chat.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Hi Pat, I too am so sorry to hear about Peety's new ourbreak. But like Sharlene, I am hoping you will finally look into a consultation at UF at Gainesville. I will be very anxious to know what the numbers were for this most recent Cushing's test. But I remain puzzled as to why your vet never believed that the May testing was consistent with Cushing's when the ACTH result was abnormally elevated and Peety also exhibited so many other lab abnormalities that are consistent with the disease. But at this point, if the ACTH is still not convincingly high, if it were me, I would opt for the 8-hour LDDS test. It is much less likely than the ACTH to "miss" the diagnosis in a dog who has Cushing's.

This is the thing, since the CC has been definitively diagnosed by the derm vet, it will never come under consistent control unless cortisol levels are also consistently managed if they are elevated. I know there was some thought that perhaps Peety's CC was the result of prednisone use early last year. But it has now been nearly a year since that time and Peety is now having an outbreak severe enough that he has actually lost part of his tongue. There has to be something else that is currently fueling the CC, and until proven otherwise, Cushing's still seems to be the likely candidate -- especially in view of his elevated ACTH last May. And how about his kidney testing? That was also worrisome back at that time. Has it been rechecked?

Can you please get us the numbers for any recent labwork that has been performed? And truly, if he was my boy, I would try to get him in to be seen at Florida so that you can finally get to the bottom of what's going on.

Marianne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

My heart is broken today, because I lost my love, my sweet boy. He died in my arms earlier today. I will forever be thankful for his sweet lil personality and the joy he brought to my heart and life. I am amazed at the patience he had with me when doctoring his sores and caring for him. The Dr had told me his recent blood work had showed kidney disease and I knew that we were dealing with more than just the cc. I transitioned him over to a bland kidney diet and he was doing okay with it but he was dehydrating and we were going to start fluid injections tomorrow. I cannot believe he is gone, my world has now become just a blur. I don't know what I am supposed to be doing. I don't have any strength to think, I just keep reliving that moment when his lifeless body was all I had left. I know he is free of pain and suffering, but oh how I wish I could rewind the clock to a day when he was healthy and happy. My precious lil boy will always be in my heart and I will miss him forever.

[Renee]

I am so very sorry to read of your baby's passing.

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh Pat. I am so very, very sorry to hear this. I really cannot even imagine that it has occurred to be honest. Peety was so adorable and just let you do anything and everything when it came to taking care of him. And never have any doubts, you Did take care of him, you researched and tried all kinds everything to make him feel better.

My sincerest condolences Pat. I know your heart is broken.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Woodydog]

I,m so sorry for your loss :mad:

[doxiesrock912]

Pat, I'm in shock!
I am so sorry for your loss of Peety.

[Trish]

Hi Pat

My condolences on the passing of Peety. That does sound sudden and such a shock for you. I am so very sorry, but you can rest easy you did all you could even though I know that does not help right now when you are feeling such grief at the passing of your baby. Please pop in and chat when you are feeling up to it, there is always an ear here and a shoulder to lean on. Big hugs for you and RIP Peety xxx

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry on the loss of your dear Peety. The other Cush babies were there to meet him I am sure. Rest in peace sweet Peety boy.
Blessings
Patti

[BostonLover]

I'm so sorry for your loss.:(

[Bo's Mom]

I am so terribly sorry....RIP sweet Angel Peety. Your sweet soul will live forever in our hearts.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thank you for all the genuine compassion. Did not rest last night. I want to close my eyes and see his healthy beautiful body and his one-of-a-kind personality that made the last 12 years such a joy. But right now I only see the disease that took his beauty and his life. I wish I could go back even seconds before death came and took him. How much I would cram into those seconds. I would push death back as far as I could so it would never catch up to the present. How I wish I could.

He is being cremated and he will be home again in a week. How I am looking forward to that. Today coming into the house was extremely difficult. I sat outside for a long time because I knew when I opened the door the void would hit me in the face, or actually right in the heart. Last night was so painful. My heart literally hurt. I felt like I couldn't breath the sorrow was so intense.

It's nice to come here where the rawest of emotions is understood. And the community has a bond that is defined by our willingness to educate, to encourage, to challenge, to console, to be there when the bridge takes our loved ones to a place of peace. God bless you all and please give your lil fur-babies an extra hug today from me.
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[beaglemom3]

My deepest sympathies. What an enormous loss for you. Rest in Peace Peety.

[addy]

I am really sorry to hear about Peety. You have both been so brave through so much. Nothing I can say will take away the hurt but know that we all care and understand. Please check in with us when you can so we know you are ok.

Hugs

[molly muffin]

Pat, I continue to be shocked at Peety's loss and my heart just breaks for you. I know your sorrow is overwhelming.
I hate the sound of silence in the house too and that must be very difficult, maybe even the hardest as the reminder is so in your face and awful.
We are here any time.

hugs and love
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Roxee's Dad]

I am so very sorry for your loss, Petey knew he was special and loved so much. Rest in peace sweet boy, tonight you are amongst our newest and brightest stars in the night sky....

[scoora]

I am so very sorry to hear of the passing of your sweet boy Peety.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Budsters Mom]

I am very sorry to hear about Peety. He has been welcomed by our other fur angels at the rainbow bridge. His fur is long, beautiful and healthy now and he's pain free. Run free sweet boy, run free!

[molly muffin]

Thinking of you Pat and sending you warm hugs.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

It has only been 3 days and I can still feel him and smell him. OMG, this just cannot be true. My mind just does not want to believe he is gone. I really just want to curl up in a ball and cry until I cannot cry anymore. 12 years of memories flood my mind and I hold on to them fearing they will just disappear. The house is so quiet and so lonely, everyday routines that were so familiar have been replaced with "something" that just fills time. Every day walks were his time. I always let him meander if he wanted because most of the time he was in the house and I wanted him to have time to explore and Meet and Greet all of his lil fur-buddies. I determined sniffing tells a story that only they understood. I have not yet ventured out alone, just don't want to give them the news just yet. So grieving is what replaced the fun walks and that is how it will be for as long as it has to be.

I can see him running down the hall, sliding on the wood floors as he tries to turn the corner. We use to play ball in the backyard and he would run so hard and fast he would almost do a back flip and I would laugh so hard, like that was what he wanted me to do. His toys were so special to him. Every night I would put them all back in his basket, everyday they were all out again. And they were all his favorites. He would hide them under his blanket and then pretend he couldn't find them. We caught on to that one. I took a video of his craziness and I am so glad I did. It is so funny and I will always cherish it.

When I would drive into the garage, he would hear me and be waiting at the back door for me. I loved to look at him through the window in the door, his tail going ninety miles an hour. He would greet me like he hadn't seen me in weeks. And if I ever went out of town, OMG, he would follow me around with his nose up against my leg and when I had to say goodbye, it just broke my heart. But the reunions were always great. And he forgave me for leaving.

So in answer to How are you doing, not very good but it is nice to know there is a place to come to where the grief is understood. I lit a candle for him. I read the rainbow bridge story and I cried thinking that he is there waiting for me and one day we will be together again.

[goldengirl88]

I have read many a story on the grief suffered by the passing of one of these babies. None has ever touched me in the way this has. It is so profoundly true and heart wrenching I could barely get thru it. One thing that helped me was the beautiful love coming thru in every word you wrote about Peety. Your relationship was like mine is with my Tipper. I am sure you saw the joy in Peety's eyes beaming back at you for all you have done to make his life so special. I wish I had that illusive magic wand to make things go back to how they were for you and Peety. God Bless you and your sweet Peety.
Patti

[molly muffin]

I think that this is a very long process, this grieving. You and Peety have such a long history together, that I cannot imagine how profoundly painful it is now for you.
I too wish that I could turn back time and make all right again in your world. :(

I'll just continue to send you warm thoughts and strength.

hugs,

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Pat

I am so sorry to read that you lost Peety.

I will go light a candle for him.

Run free little man

Mel
Xxxx

[FiveDogsMom]

One of my dogs was recently diagnosed with Cushings and has calcinosis cutis. I just discovered this forum this afternoon and was reading through the discussion of Peety's condition. I am sitting here crying because I just read the post that Peety had passed. I don't know you, Peety's Mom, but please know that I understand your pain at losing your sweet boy. I am so sorry for your loss.

I will be posting more soon about my Bailey's condition and progress.

Janet