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lummel
03-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Hi! My dog was diagnosed just over a week ago with Cushings after an ultrasound and a 3 part blood test. (Normally I"m on top of the names of things so forgive me but I'm a bit exhausted right now.)

She was diagnosed as being diabetic in mid-February. Her glucose still isn't regulated, although it's better - it was a real nightmare initially because it stayed high (500 +) for two weeks until the type of insulin was changed and the dosage raised considerably. My understanding is that Cushings may have had something to do with this and that treating the Cushings may help in this regard.

Prior to being diagnosed as diabetic, she had - wait for it - insulinoma for 2 and a half years. For those unfamiliar with that disease, cancerous pancreatic cells create excess insulin, driving the glucose down. She had surgery and had recently been quite successfully treated with a drug called palladia. For her to go from insulinoma (at her worst, with glucose levels in the 30's) to diabetic (when diagnosed, glucose was mid-700's) is pretty weird. But again, this may have something to do with the Cushings.

Anyway, she started trilostane 60 mg/twice daily last Saturday. She has lost quite a bit of weight since becoming diabetic - she used to weigh around 54 lbs. and now she is about 40. I was worried about the dosage my vet gave her but he said it was right for her. She is a lab mix, 14 and a half years old.

She is a real trooper - just before her diabetes diagnosis in mid-Feb. she was acting like a dog much younger - still energetic, playful, able to go on longish walks, go up and down stairs quite easily, even repeatedly, etc. But she became really weak once she was diagnosed with diabetes - unable to stand on her own, having to lie down to eat, be helped or carried up even just a few stairs, etc. For the first couple of weeks it was really scary, but as soon as her glucose started to go down (although it still gets relatively high) this improved a great deal. She's not what she was, but she's much better. I know she's pretty old, but I really feel she has it in her to recover as much as possible with the proper treatment and I am committed to seeing that happen. (She did WAY better with her insulinoma than most dogs do.)

Right now I am still learning about both diabetes and Cushings. The entire thing has been very stressful and distressing, although it is much better than it was. This after a couple of years of dealing with insulinoma...it's a little overwhelming.

At the moment I am mostly concerned about the medication. Any feedback about that would be welcome. I have seen her trembling a bit on occasion. About an hour ago she was really trembling a lot and I got a bit freaked out. But this was after I did a good cleaning of her rear end (she's had diarrhea or soft stools for ages - even before diabetes/Cushings.) I think it's very sore and the distress may have come from my cleaning her. (She seems fine now.) But any feedback about shivering/shaking and/or side effects of this medication to be on the outlook for would be appreciated. I get a little paranoid sometimes - the more info. I have the more I can relax. I'm also looking at her elbow right now and it looks kind of red and sore. I put some vaseline on it but it looks kind of weird - is that consistent with anything to do with Cushings? (I've read that they bruise more easily, but this seems to have just appeared this afternoon.)

I just want to do the best I can for my dog. If anything bad happened to her because she wasn't treated properly or I missed the signs or it in some way could have been avoided, I'd never live with myself. I work at home and am with her 24/7 and therefore she is under close supervision, so that shouldn't happen if I am doing my job! My vet is close by and also will take calls when needed, but of course after hours is difficult (you need to be a millionaire to go to the emergency vet. I almost got held hostage the last time I went and said I couldn't pay them until the next day. If they had known that they wouldn't even have treated her!) It would help me so much to be able to distinguish between what is an emergency and what is just part of the process of dealing with this illness until we can get it (hopefully) under control.

That elbow looks really red...she's sleeping soundly now. I guess I really am paranoid but I'm determined to see her through this. Any suggestions or advice or pearls of wisdom would be very appreciated. I'm going to start wading through the info. on here but of course I've been a bit overwhelmed (after learning everything about insulinoma, now I have two more diseases to learn about! I was just getting going with diabetes...so I have a lot to catch up on.)

Thank you!

Linda & Lucy

molly muffin
03-20-2013, 09:51 PM
Hello and welcome to the forum.

So glad you found us, but very sorry for the reason why.

Lets start off with saying we have a sister site, http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/ they are all about diabetes and we have several members that are dealing with both diseases. You should definitely register there too. Great people and they can help you with the diabetes issues.

How much does your dog weigh? Current recommendations is for 1mg/1lb ratio to start for vetroyl/trilostane.

If you could post the results of the tests done to determine cushings and any abnormal test results, high/low and range, also unit, ug or nmol usually. That would really be helpful.

Check out our resource page http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Ack, one of the things you watch out for with vetroyl is diarrhea, that isn't going to be very helpful if your dog normally has diarrhea. Also, lack of appetite, vomiting, lethargy. As a sign that the dosage could be too high. Any or all of those could be warning signs.

Quite often there are skin issues when a dog has cushings. They are more prone to infections, and calcinosis cutis. This is where skin deposits form under the skin. They look like pimples to start off with.

Diabetes can be difficult to get under control at the best of times, and cushings can make it more difficult. Treating cushings Can help to get the diabetes back on track and vice versa, as anything off in the body can cause the cortisol levels to go up, so it's a compounded issue to deal with.

With first having insulinoma you are certainly seeing both ends of the insulin spectrum. Knowledge is always going to be your best friend with any disease. The more you know the better advocate you can be.

I'm sure that some of the others will be stopping in and will have a lot more questions and advice for you.

Welcome again.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Dodie
03-25-2013, 10:42 AM
My dog Molly shivered and that's why I took her to the vet initially. She was diagnosed with Cushings right after that. It stopped for awhile and then began again after starting Vetoryl. We had to stop the vetorly and she does not seem to shiver, at least for the past three weeks.

Dodie & Molly

lulusmom
03-25-2013, 01:28 PM
Hi Linda and a belated welcome to you and Lucy.

Cushing's is very difficult to diagnose and when you throw Diabetes in the mix, it is even more difficult. What worries me is that you never mentioned that Lucy had any symptoms associated with cushing's before the diabetes diagnosis. In fact, you said she was running around like a youngster. Cushing's is a very graded disease so it could take a very long time for symptoms to become overt but if a dog with cushing's has cortisol levels high enough to eventually trigger the diabetes, one would think you would have seen some fairly apparent cushing's symptoms. If, in fact, there were no symptoms, I am very concerned about the possibility of a misdiagnosis. My good friend, Leslie, listed the symptoms associated with cushing's on another thread so I'm going to be lazy and cut & paste below. Can you tell me how many of these symptoms Lucy had before she was diagnosed with diabetes?

The most common symptoms include:
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)
• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)
• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs
• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.
• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance
• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• bony, skull-like appearance of head
• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin
• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly
• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)
• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)
• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures

Diabetes, or any serious non adrenal illness, wreaks havoc on the body and the adrenal glands will respond to that stress by dumping cortisol. A false positive LDDS test result would be expected if the diabetes is out of control as would abnormalities on an abdominal ultrasound, as would a good many of the blood and urine abnormalities that are common in both diseases.

Muscle tremors are listed as a sign effect of Vetoryl (Trilostane) and it's certainly been reported by many members here. It is apparent that your vet is not that knowledgable of the drug he has prescribed. A total daily dose of 120mg is too high for lucy and I am very concerned that 1) she doesn't even have cushing's and 2) she's showing signs of overdose. Cortisol will continue to drop in the immediate future and i am afraid for Lucy. Twice daily dosing is preferrable over a once daily dosing; however, studies show that dogs on twice daily dosing require a lower total daily dose than those dogs on once daily dosing. That makes 120mg for a 40 pound dog even more concerning. Both UC Davis and the manufacturer of Vetoryl are recommending that you start with 1mg per pound. Your vet prescribed three times the recommended starting dose. I highly recommend that you share two sites with your vet. The first is dosing recommendations by Dechra which can be found on their website. The second is a blog on Dr. Mark Peterson's site where he responds to a vet who is asking questions about diagnosing cushing's in a dog with diabetes. Dr. Peterson is a renown and well published endocrine specialist. URL's to both are as follows:


http://www.dechra-us.com/Cushings-Syndrome/Veterinarians/Prescribing-VETORYL-1.aspx
Excerpt
Starting doseVETORYL Capsules should be administered orally once daily in the morning with food. Administration with food will significantly increase the rate and extent of absorption of VETORYL.

Ideally, the starting dose to aim for is 1.0 to 3.0 mg/lb (2.2 to 6.7 mg/kg) once a day based on body weight and capsule size. When calculating dosage, it is suggested to round down. Start at the low end of this range. If you have any questions on dosing, contact Dechra Technical Support at 866-933-2472 or support@dechra.com.

ONCE TREATMENT HAS STARTED, THE OWNER SHOULD BE ADVISED TO MONITOR THE DOG’S ACTIVITY, APPETITE AND WATER INTAKE. IF THE DOG SHOWS ANY SIGNS OF ILLNESS, ADVISE THE OWNER TO STOP TREATMENT AND CONTACT HIS OR HER VETERINARIAN IMMEDIATELY.
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/q-diagnosing-cushings-disease-in-dogs.html

I would like to echo Sharlene and ask that you post the results of the tests your vet did to diagnose cushing's. I also recommend that if you haven't done so already, please join our sister site, k9diabetes.com. You'll have the best of both worlds.

Glynda