need some advice

[Rob]

Hi everyone, hope someone can help. My dog vegas has recently been diagnosed with cushings. He had been drinking an unusual amount of water and urinating frequently, having accidents and waking us up in the middle of the night to go out, all of which never happened before. He is a 160 pound bullmastiff and is seven years old. He doesn't really show any of the other symptoms. He had all the tests done and the vet couldn't tell whether it was pituitary or adrenal. He recommended lysodren. We started him on lysodren on Saturday, giving him 1500 mg twice a day. He seemed fine for the first two days, with no changes in symptons. On the third day he was given his medication in the morning and by the afternoon I could tell he was acting funny, restless, couldn't get comfortable, lethargic. I gave him his evening dose and he immediately threw up and was really scaring me. I attempted to call my vet, however was not able to get ahold of him. I wound up giving him prednisone and he seem to get a little better after a while. I called my vet the next morning and he recommended cutting the medication to 1250 mg. He has only treated two dogs for cushings so I was scared to continue the medication. Its been two days now and he still doesn't seem to be himself. He has only eaten once in two days and today he hasn't touched his water. I am getting worried and really don't know what to do now. Can anyone help or has anyone had this problem with lysodren.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Rob and welcome to you and Vegas! :)

Please do not give any more Lyso and contact your vet asap to do an ACTH and electrolyte check now, today. Be sure you have enough pred and if the vet cannot get Vegas is asap, give him the pred as you have been. It sounds like his cortisol has gone too low. I will be back soon but want you to see this now.

BTW, I manually approved so that members can start responding to you. Please check your email for a message from k9cushings. You will need to reply to that email so that your post go directly to the board and are not delayed waiting for approval. If you have already received and responded to the confirmatory email, please be patient. Your registration will be finalized shortly. Thanks and welcome!

Hugs,
Leslie

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok...I'm back. Based on Vegas' weight, the dose is right. Lysodren is dosed at 50mg/kg/day. Vegas weighs 72.72...kg (160/2.2=72.7272...); 72.72 x 50mg = 3636 which would be a tad less than the 3000/day he was on. So the dose is correct. Which brings to question the diagnosis. So we will ask lots of questions as we try to help you and Vegas get to the bottom of things...but the most important thing right now is that he be seen and tested asap. So back again with a list of questions for you to get to as you can. Taking care of your sweet boy is the prime concern for now.

I'm really glad you are here. You and Vegas are not alone. We will be right by your side. Ask away anytime...

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jmac]

Hi Rob, and welcome to you and Vegas.

I'm so sorry about how Vegas is doing, but glad you found this site. The people are amazing, knowledgeable, wonderful, helpful...I could go on and on. You will have someone with you every step of the way to answer all your questions and give advice.

I hope you'll see Leslie's post soon. Definitely do not give any more Lysodren. I hope you can see the vet today, and that you have more pred on hand.

Someone is always here to help you and give you guidance. I'm so glad you're here!

Julie & Hannah

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Rob,

Haven't forgotten about you and wanted to check on Vegas to see how he is doing this afternoon. Did you get to see the vet? If so, what did you learn?

Hope to hear from you soon and then we will start playing 20 Questions. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rob]

Thank you for your response. I am going to take vegas tomorrow for test. He hasn't ate today but still wants my food, seems to be doing o.k., but not too lively. He hasn't drank much water today, about a half of a bowl. The first time in months that I have not had to constantly give water. I will try to get results from all tests and I guess go from there. Once again thx for your concern. Rob

[molly muffin]

Hi and welcome to you and Vegas

If you can ask your vet for copies of all lab results for testing, that will get us started. It's a good sign that he still wants your food at least. It could be that he did a fast load, it could be that it's not cushings, so we'll look at lab results to see if glucose, thyroid or kidneys have been checked, or if there are any other apparent signs.

Many of the members here have been living with cushings, 24/7 for many years and we've had dogs treated with lysodren and the loading phase can go quickly or it can drag out. You never know which way it's going to go because every dog is different and every dog reacts to medication differently, just like humans.

So until he can go in for the testing, keep an eye on him. Always make sure you have some prednisone on hand when using any of the drugs for cushings.

We'll be right here with you every step of the way and you can always ask questions or just let us know how it is going.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Rob]

Seems like he is doing pretty good now, he drank some water ate some of his and my food. Still gonna have him tested tomorrow and I will get copies of all tests. He is still kind of lazy but that's his nature anyway. I will get back when I have more info thanks once again.

[Rob]

Took vegas this morning for a stim test. Last night he did pretty good, for the second night in a row he didn't wake us up to go out and he didn't drink an unusual amount of water. The vet said it would take three days for results of test which I thought was kind of a long time. I wondered if by some chance he did get loaded in the two and a half days with lysodren will I have to reload after test results. I am having them fax me all test results and will post them when I can.

[Squirt's Mom]

It isn't uncommon for larger dogs to load fast...no idea why, but we have seen that here several times. So it is possible he is loaded. Waiting for the test results shouldn't mean a reload - it is standard protocol for Lysodren pups to wait a bit between the load and starting maintenance. If the ACTH comes back showing his level did go too low, you will wait even longer to start maintenance. ;) Maintenance dosing will be close to the same daily dose he used to load but divided over a week, giving the med 2-4 times a week VS daily. The maintenance dose is based on 25-50mg/kg/WEEK.

I am so happy to hear that Vegas is doing a bit better. When they stop drinking and eating that is a dangerous sign and must be addressed immediately. You did really good to seek help when you did. You're a good dad!

Now for those 20 Questions. ;)

What prompted the cushing's testing in the first place? What signs were you seeing?

What tests were done to diagnose the condition? There are five tests that can be used to diagnose Cushing's - the LDDS, HDDS, ACTH, UTK panel and abdominal ultrasound.

Has he had an abdominal ultrasound?

Do you know if he has the pituitary or adrenal form?

Does Vegas have any other health issues that you are aware of?

Is he on any meds, herbs or supplements?

Is Vegas neutered?

Has he had any frequent infections, especially UTIs or skin infections?

Has he had prednisone or any other steroid medication recently?

Do you or anyone who has contact with him use hormone or steroid creams, lotions, etc?

How long after the last dose of Pred was the ACTH done yesterday? ie when was the last dose of pred Vegas took?

Ok...that's enough for now, right? :D

Anxiously waiting with you for those tests results. Meantime, just keep doing as you typically do and keep an eye on him just in case he starts to go off his feed or water again. If you start to see that, holler!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rob]

His symptons started about 4 months ago. He began drinking unusual amounts of water and needing to urinate immediately. Actually he has always wanted to go out right after drinking his water which I thought was kind of funny. However for the past four months or so it got much worse. He began having accidents in the house and wanting to go out in the middle of the night , both of which he had very rarely done. He ate a normal amount of food, has no pot belly, well he is 160 pounds so I wouldn't say he is skinny lol. He has never really had any skin problems. He has been a pretty healthy dog to this point. The initial test was a urinalysis a chem 17 w/ lytes & CBC done on 11/30/2012. They told me they suspected cushings. The next test was cortisol-dexamethasone sup done on 12/7/2012. The vet said that he was borderline adrenal/ pituitary and recommended meds. He has not had an ultrasound and I asked for all test results. He is supposed to fax them today. He is on no other meds. He is neutered. He was tested for uti was negative and yesterday I noticed a spot on his neck where he must have scratched raw, but recently I have noticed his hair turning dark around his collar which is a steel choker chain that is left on always. I am not sure if he could have some reaction to the collar, who knows but I am taking it off to see. Other than that no real skin issues. I did give him that one pred 20 mg after the lysodren scare on Monday. His acth test was today, Friday. There are no steroids in the house. Hope this helps.

[molly muffin]

Just checking in to see if those stim results have come back yet and if the vet faxed you test results? How is his neck doing with the collar off more often?

How is he acting now?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin