Molly, 11 y/o Shih Tzu - Starting trilostane

[Dodie]

I am new to this forum and feel very badly for you and Scoop. I'm looking for info and help to do as much for my 11 yr. old shih tzu Molly who has been diagnosed with Cushings. She stated on vetoryl 2 weeks ago and was acting very lethargic this past weekend so my vet stopped and did blood work but told me to restart this morning. 30 mg. is the doseage every morning. Truthfully, the couple of days she was off the med, she played like her old self. Can anyone let me know their thoughts? I'm extremely worried. She means the world to me.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Dodie and welcome! :)

I want you to stop the Vetoryl for now. This is a very easy med to stop and restart so it won't be a problem. However, continuing to give it may be a serious problem. So no more meds until we can chat a bit, ok?

I'll be right back to talk some more but want you to see this now. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok...I'm back. :D

I'm going to ask you a lot of questions and please do your best to answer them all.

First, how is Molly acting now?

How much does Molly weigh?

What dose of Vetoryl did she start on? Was it more than 30mg once a day?

How long was she taking that dose before she started acting off?

Did your vet do an ACTH when you told them how she was acting?

Did they check the electrolytes at the same time?

Do you give the Vetoryl with food?

What tests were done to diagnose the Cushing's in the first place?

Would you mind getting copies of those tests and posting the actual results here along with the normal ranges and units of measurement? It will look something like.... ALP - 1500 (250-400).

What prompted the testing? What did you see or what did the vet see/find that lead to testing for Cushing's?

Did they rule out diabetes, hypothyroidism, liver or kidney disease?

Does Molly have any other illnesses / health issues that you know of?

Is she on any other meds, supplements, herbs, etc?

Hang in there. We will be with you all the way. I know this can be scary but you have found the very best place for help and support. Just keep breathing and talking to us. We will probably move this info into a new thread just for your Molly so don't panic.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

Hi. My beloved dog molly was recently diagnosed with Cushings. I'm very worried and heartsick because she means the world to me. She has come to work with me everyday for the past 10&1/2 years and is very well loved here as well. She is on a combination of chinese herbs and vetoryll 30 mg. every morning. She became more lethargic over the past weekend, so my vet stopped the med and did a test on Monday. he told me yesyerday to restart the vetoryl this morning and if she becomes lethargic again to stop and we will try a lower dose. She urinates a lot, but does not drink very much water. I'm making her food now, which consists of Chicken Breast, Potato with skin, Chicken baby food, strained green beans, and shredded carrots and apple. Her bowel habits have changed entirely. Goes maybe once every day or two in a large amount. sorry for so much info at once, but I'm really worried. She is not herself now.

[labblab]

Hello and welcome! As you can see, we noticed you had posted your first reply on another member's thread and were just in the process of moving it when you started a new thread yourself. So to make things easier, everything is all consolidated here now and we all can post our future replies to this one thread alone.

I'm very glad you and Molly have found us,
Marianne

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi and welcome to you and Molly from me too :)

If Molly was on 30 mg of vetoryl and was not feeling well, there is a good chance that it was just too much for her. Most vets and the recommendation is to start off at "about" 1 mg per pound which is on the low side but typically will do no harm to start off low then increase as needed. To start off high and decrease is a dangerous way to proceed.

I would suspect if she was on 30 mg before she started feeling ill.... and the vet restarted the same dose, I think she will start feeling ill again. Please watch her carefully and at any sign of lethargy, diarrhea, loss of appetite, stop the Veroryl (aka Trilostane) immediately. I am a bit worried at this point.

As Leslie asked, please post the latest ACTH results. The Vet should have checked Molly's cortisol levels and electrolytes before restating the Trilostane, I hope he did so.

[Dodie]

Thank you to all
I want to answer Leslies questions and they should tell pretty much where we're at:
30mg. once a day.
When first diagnosed[the Vets educated guess, she was started on Chinese herbs and for two months acted like she was a year old again]. Then she began acting more and more sluggish.
Was then given the test where they kept her all day, and take blood every couple of hours-diagnosed then for certain with Cushings. Also, said she had an infection. Gave her Amoxicillin for 14 days.
Stopped the vetoryl on Sunday - did another blood test and said her ACTH was at optimum level.
Did not check electrolytes that I know of.
First symptoms were excessive urination-NO EXCESSIVE DRINKING EVER> and Shivering.
No other issues that I know of, except she has always had a sensitive stomach.and she has always had regular check-ups.
I will get copies of the test results.

[Dodie]

I should clarify that Molly has only been on the vetoryl for the past 11 days out of this entire 2 or 3 month period.
She weighs 16.8 lbs.
She has also begun snoring quite a lot and louder than I have ever noticed.

[Dodie]

I 'm sorry I keep adding things, but my Vet told me to stop the vetoryl on Sunday, [she had already had her morning dose] and he gave her the blood test Monday morning. The test is supposed to be done 4-5 hrs. after her meds were given. It was more like 27 hrs. after, so I don't think the results could be accurate.

[Roxee's Dad]

I am pretty sure the test is invalid as the trilo effect has worn off. I am seriously wondering if Molly has cushings. Her infection may have skewed the results. Typically the cortisol level will increase when a pup is in pain or fighting off an infection. If that was the case, the original test results may be off.

Since she was off the Trilo for over 24 hours and her cortisol is in the normal range, I would doubt the original diagnosis and would think about retesting after all infections have been taken care of.

Usually cush pups have a ravenous appetite and excessive thirst / urination. The treatment does not cure cushings but only alleviates the symptoms. So if she is not drinking excessively or stealing food, cushings treatment most probably should not have been started. Has she been tested for hypothyroid or diabetes?

Give that little girl a belly rub from me, I always have a special place in my heart for Shih Tzu's :)

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm with John and wondering about the diagnosis. Being tested while she had an infection puts the test results in questions as any illness can skew the results, giving a false positive. I'm not convinced your vet is well versed enough in Cushing's and it would be a really good idea if you could get a second opinion from another vet asap. And please do not give any more of the Vetoryl for now.

An ACTH done 27 hours after the last dose is useless and a huge waste of your money plus unnecessary stress for Molly. :(

What kind of infection did Molly have when they did the all day test, probably the LDDS? Is that cleared up now?

Thanks for the extra info and keep it coming! :D We love details so the more you can tell us the better!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

Thanks so much. I don't know where to start to try to rectify this whole thing. I want to do whatever I can for her. She has always been a very happy, social dog who just loves life.
My Vet is kind of hard to get through to.

[lulusmom]

`Hi Dodie and welcome to you and Molly.

I'm sorry that it was necessary for you to reach out to us but I'm glad that you were able to find us. We're here to help you help Molly in any way we can.

Whenever we receive information like the type you've provided, the first thing that enters our mind is, "I hope the vet did a comprehensive job of running appropriate tests in order to confirm the diagnosis before starting treatment'. That's why we always ask members to tell us which tests were done and to post the results here. Cushing's is at the top of the list of conditions that are often misdiagnosed. The reason for that is that a lot of the symptoms are shared with many other conditions and the diagnostic tests available are simply not that reliable, especially if there is something else going on. If a dog has a non adrenal illness, including skin, eye, dental or urinary tract infection, those tests can yield false positive results so I'm wondering if that infection you mentioned was active during the cushing's testing? It looks as though the low dose dex suppression test was done and while it's considered the gold standard in testing, it's also the most likely to yield a false positive result if any other illness is active.

One of Molly's two symptoms was excessive urination. Dogs with cushing's pee a lot because their kidneys lose the ability to concentrate the urine. However, these dogs do an equal amount of drinking to stay hydrated. With Molly only having half of symptom, I don't see that it's consistent with cushing's. A complete urinalysis, including a culture, should have been done by your vet prior to diagnosing so I'm hoping that was done.

Can you tell me what you mean by shivering? One of my cushdog's back legs tremored due to weakness caused by muscle wasting but he did not tremor all over. If Molly was having whole body shivering, pain would be a more likely suspect than cushing's.

It further concerns me that you used the term "vet's best guess" directly following the words, "when first diagnosed" A confirmed diagnosis is based on a lot more than a guess, llike the way a dog physically presents, common clinical symptoms associated with the disease, blood and urine abnormalities consistent with cushing's, evidence by way of an ACTH stimulation test or low dose dex suppression test (LDDS) that cortisol is elevated and always for good measure, an abdominal ultrasound which can validate the ACTH and/or LDDS tests as well as checking the adrenal glands and surrounding organs for abnormalities consistent with cushing's or not consistent with cushing's. It will help us greatly understand your vet's approach to diagnosing a dog once you round up all test results and post them here.

Trilostane can and usually does reduce aldosterone levels which is the reason why your vet should always check electrolytes whenever you take Molly in for an acth stim test.

I'll be here with the others waiting to hear a lot more about Molly.

Glynda

[Roxee's Dad]

I would start off with a basic blood panel and a thyroid test. Her excessive urination could be indicative of a urinary tract infection or possible badder stones or crystals.

I would put the cushings on the back burner for now until we are sure she has no other problems. Cushings is normally not treated until the symptoms become problematic.

[lulusmom]

Thanks so much. I don't know where to start to try to rectify this whole thing. I want to do whatever I can for her. She has always been a very happy, social dog who just loves life.
My Vet is kind of hard to get through to.

I see that you and Leslie had another exchange while I was typing but I wanted to reassure you that the best place for you to start in understanding how to sort things out is to let us help by posting the test results. I'm not sure what you mean by your vet being hard to get through to but s/he should be happy to give you copies of all tests and willing to answer any of your questions. It's a lot tougher to deal with our vets directly after a diagnosis because we spend a great deal of time standing around like a deer in headlights. It's a difficult disease to wrap your head around and the mystery doesn't unravel easily or quickly. I promise you that the more you learn the easier everything becomes, including working with your vet. I was a total thorn in my vet's side but I figured I paid him good money to grin and bear it. He eventually answered all my questions and was patient while I took notes. I'm not a speed writer so writing at a snail's pace was probably very painful for my vet but OH WELL, it's all about my dogs.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to you and Molly. :) I also have a Molly that is shih tzu/lhaso mix. Love her, aren't they adorable. I came here much the same as you, except my vet had given me the 30mgs of vetroyl based on an ACTH tests. I decided Not to start my molly on the meds right away and to get other tests done. So, I saw an IMS, had an ultrasound done and at the recommendation of the IMS, had an LDDS test done, which again was negative. (it had been negative the year before too) and the IMS said not to start at 30mg but at a lower dose if she had tested positive.
So based on that experience, I'm going to suggest a couple things. Urine gravity test, urine/creatine ratio, Culture for UTI, glucose and thyroid checks. If you have had a complete blood workup, you might have T4 and glucose results on your blood work already. If you can post those with high or lows, we'll know better as to where you are at currently in testing and narrowing down what might be going on.
It's easy enough to stop vetroyl/trilostane for now and restart at a lower dose if cushings is in deed confirmed, but you really want to make sure before you go forward with that. 30mgs sounds like it might be high for her anyhow. Remember, cortisol can and often does continue to decrease for around 30 days from the start, you don't want her to go too low which can be a very bad thing if not caught in time.
False positives on tests are a real risk if there is something else going on with her. Tremors is often a sign of pain and the first thing to be ruled out is the UTI/stone/crystals issue I think. Move on from there.

Welcome again,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

Many thanks to all of you.
I'm trying very hard to calm down and be less stressed. I have an appointment tomorrow 3/8 and will be seeing Molly's regular Vet. The owner Vet has been caring for her most recently.
I'm going to ask about Ketones or glucose in urine, ALT liver level,if the infection is gone, full chemistry profile, urinalysis , & to check Electrolytes & thyroid.
Also, does anyone know any reason for her recent increase in snoring and more loudly?

[Dodie]

I forgot to answer what I meant by shivering. She appeared to be shivering as if she was cold. I could touch her and feel her back shivering. The same thing happened last weekend.
The Vet had said at one point that he thought she was having muscle spasms in her back, when I told him that she was very hesitant to jump on or off the bed for instance. Since then she has been able to do that again, for the most part.

[Squirt's Mom]

Dodie sent me the test results and I have her permission to share them here -


ALT[SGPT] 128 Ref. Range 12-118.
Alk Phosphatase 3762 Ref. Range 5 -131.
Urea Nitrogen 57 Ref. Range 6 -31.
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 36 Ref. Range 4 -27.
Calcium 11.8 Ref. Range 8.9 - 11.4.
Cholesterol 366 Ref. Range 92 - 324.
Platlet Count 459 Ref. Range 170-400.
Differential Absolute
Test Requested:
Amylase 473 Ref. Range 290-1125.

ACTH:
Cortisol Sample 1 - 4.3 Ref. Range 1.0-5.0
Cortisol Sample 2 - 6.9[low] Ref. Range 8-17.
Post-Trilostane cortisol levels between 1.5-9.1 indicate optimal control.

[Harley PoMMom]

I see that the calcium is elevated, has this been trending upwards?

[Squirt's Mom]

ACTH:
Cortisol Sample 1 - 4.3 Ref. Range 1.0-5.0
Cortisol Sample 2 - 6.9 [low] Ref. Range 8-17.
Post-Trilostane cortisol levels between 1.5-9.1 indicate optimal control.

Hi Dodie,

The cortisol sample 2 above that says "low" is NOT low. The reference range of 8 - 17 is for a pup who is NOT on treatment so those values do not apply to Molly. The line below that gives the range for a Trilo pup is the one that applies to her.

BUT since this test was given 27 hours after the last dose, I wonder what her levels would have been if the test had been given correctly....was she too low and came up to the 6.9 post #?

Trilo dosing confuses me no end so I will let others address that issue. At 16.8 lbs, 30mg sounds too high to me but I will let the Trilo folks talk to you about this. For now, don't restart the Trilo, ok? Let's get the dose sorted out first. ;)

Keep your chin up, sweetie!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

Hi Leslie & Gang,

I took Molly in today,to see the woman Vet she always had seen prior to this. She took a urine sample and will call me with the results on Monday. She told told me to stop the Vetoryl and we will retest in two weeks the same test the other Vet just did this past Monday 3/4/13. I will be away from the computer until Monday 3/11 and will let you know what the Urine sample shows. She also put her back on amoxicillin in case the infection is not fully cleared up yet. Thanks for all your help and concern.

[molly muffin]

We'll be waiting with you to see how the results come out! Have a good weekend!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

I am still waiting for the urine test results.
I wanted some advice on vitamins that I have ordered. I probably should have asked prior to ordering.
I ordered Vitamin C powder because I had read that adding vitamin C vitamin E and Silenium was very important for dogs with Cushings. I received the Vitamin C,- 3,000mg. of Sodium Ascorbate - but it also contains other vitamin and mineral supplements. One of them is 30 mg. of Calcium also 349 mg. of Sodium. It does have 30 i.u of Vitamin E and 24 mcg. of Selenium. Does anyone know if this is safe to give Molly?

Thanks,
Dodie

[Squirt's Mom]

That is an awful lot of sodium, Dodie. I think I would call the vet about this before giving Molly any of it. ;)

[Dodie]

I will not give that vitamin to Molly. I thought that was too much sodium.
I received the urine results. She said her white blood cells were still a little high, so keep her on the amoxicillin. No crystals. Everything else was fine.
I asked her again what the X-Ray showed from 2 weeks ago and she said everything looked good. No enlarged Liver etc.
She is not on Vetoryl now, and her symtptoms are frequent urination, not as much energy as usual and wanting to be on cooler surfaces.
Does anyone know where I can get just plain Vitamin C, E & selenium? I would like to make sure she is getting everything she should have.

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Dodie]

I have been making my own food for Molly for the last moth approximately. She has Organic chicken, ground beef, eggs, carrots, potato with skin, broccilli, & green beans, & Beech Nut Chicken Baby Food. At first she was okay with this, but now has begun to show less & less interest in this food.
She always really enjoyed her canned dog food. First she always ate Hills k9 i/d then for the past year Hills w/d [I think my vet thought she may be diabetic at that time] I had read online that Hills i/d could be used for Cushings dogs mixed with proteins and vegetables. However I later learned that the person who wrote that article was in some way related to the Hills family.
Can somebody please help me out with this? It kills me to see her not enjoy her food.

Thanks so much,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about diet into Molly’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Dodie,

I can't recommend feeding ad hoc diets - diets that are not designed for Molly and her conditions, environment, age, breed, situation and so on. That can lead to serious imbalances causing multiple issues on top of what is already going on. The best thing to do with home cooked meals is enlist the aid of a nutritional consultant or veterinary nutritionist. There are a couple of consultants I can recommend - Catherine Lane and Monica Segal. If you can't do that then stick with commercial feeds and add fresh toppers - small amounts of toppers. Tho I wouldn't go back to Hill's unless that is all she will eat. ;)

There is a book you can buy that has some great info in it and some great recipes but again you take a risk when you don't involve someone with experience in canine nutrition to come up with a diet that will be good and healthy specifically for Molly. Monica has written a book called K9 Kitchen that has some really good info that will help you learn - tho I still wouldn't use the diets there for Molly. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

Hi Leslie & Gang,

I'm sorry but does ad hoc mean home made food? Do you use or know of any commercial food that I could purchase today? I would like to get it asap, as I need to add new food extremely slowly.
I ordered and received today A nutrition booster for small dogs such as a ShihTzu. It contains Flaxseed, sunflower seed -for omega 3&6 fatty acids, yeast [prebiotic], Direct Fed Microbials[probiotics] & Plasma [protein]. I want to make sure she is not malnourished.

[Dodie]

Hi All,

Could anyone suggest a high quality canned food to feed Molly that would provide the high protein, low fat & low fiber that is recommended for a dog with Cushings?
I'm concerned that by cooking for her, I'm not providing the correct amount of vitamins and minerals.
Also, I have a multi-vitamin for her called First Script that I purchased from a holistic Vet, but it has 30 mg. of calcium and I had read that you should not give calcium to a dog who has Cushings.
I feel like I need a lot of advice.
Please help.

Thanks,
Dodie&Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

"Ad hoc" pertaining to this context means makeshift, inadequate future planning, it is a means to an end without consideration of wider consequences. ie, you simply want home cooked meals without thinking about vitamins, minerals or other supplementation that will need to be added to create a balanced food. Calcium, Zinc, and taurine nearly always need to be added. Manganese, copper, selenium and other minerals may be needed as well depending on the content of the food sources.

As for good commercial feeds, there are several but as to which one would be best for Molly, that is something you will need to decide based on her specific needs. Dogfoodadvisor has a good set up where you can compare different foods and see the ratings of each. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

A couple of guidelines on commercial feed - if you can get it in WalMart, KMart, the grocery store, etc. it probably is not a high quality feed and not what you want. Higher quality feeds have higher quality ingredients. You can find these higher quality feeds at places like PetCo, PetSmart and online. When looking at a package, if it says it is Lamb and rice then in the ingredient list lamb and rice must be in the first four ingredients listed or the feed contains very little of either. Ingredients are listed in order of content. ie the first ingredient is the highest in content in the feed, second ingredient second highest, and so on down the list. Avoid feeds that have by-products, digests, and "flavorings".

Some good brands are Solid Gold, Acana, Blue Buffaloe, Fromme, Castor and Pollox, and Evanger's. Often these companies will send you a sample to try before purchasing a bag. Remember that changing feeds can lead to digestive upsets so you want to either wait until Molly is back on the Trilo and stable with it or hold off on the Trilo until she is adjusted to the new feed to avoid causing a situation that could be confusing. ie if she vomits you need to know if it is likely due to the feed or the med.

Hope that helps a little...tho I know it would be much easier if I simply said, "Go buy X". It just doesn't work that way. ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Dodie]

Thanks so much for your help. Molly will be off the Trilo for 2 weeks at least.
I deal with two Vets at the practice I go to. The man is the owner of the practice and he is the one who put her on 30 mg. dosage. I've seen him sporadically in the past.
I've always dealt with the woman Vet. She is the vet I just saw last Friday and she looked over Mollys test results and stopped the Trilo, and will retest on March 22nd.
However neither one seems to realize the significance of the right diet, especially now.
Can you tell me if it's true that her diet should be high protein and low fat and low fiber? Also, if calcium should be in the multi-vitamin? Should calcium be avoided?

Thanks,
Dodie & molly

[Squirt's Mom]

The diet best for cush pups as I understand is moderate protein and low fats. Cush pups are prone to pancreatitis which can be triggered by fats so this is especially important. As for a vitamin supplement, if you are feeding commercial feed then this isn't necessary as it will contain everything Molly should need on a daily basis. It is only when feeding a home made diet, whether cooked or raw, that vitamins and minerals need to be addressed. UNLESS there is a medical reason for additional supplementation with vitamins or minerals and you vet should tell you what to use and how much. Otherwise, everything she needs will be in the feed.

Most vets don't know much about nutrition so don't be too hard on yours. They just aren't taught much about it in school unless they specialize in that field. Most vets rely on sales reps to tell them what is good...which is why you see so much of Hill's in vet clinics. Hill's hits them up before they open their doors for the very first time. Our vet in TN told me they met with her graduating class and offered all kinds of deals for those opening their own clinics. ;)

[Dodie]

Hi Squirts Mom,

Thanks so much for always answering my hundred questions! I'm going to slowly change Molly over to a food called Against the Grain. It has a 5 star rating and I'm too afraid to continue cooking for her because of the question of whether or not she is getting proper nutrition. Do you happen to know if added calcium is bad for a cushings pup? I have a powdered supplement to put in her home made food while I'm changing her over, but it contains 30 mg. of calcium.

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

Glad to help when I can. ;)

If it were me, I wouldn't add extra calcium. The feed should have all she will need. To quote the Small Animal Clinical Nutrition text, "There should be little concern about calcium deficiency in older dogs unless unbalanced homemade foods are fed."

From the same text concerning excess Calcium - "Decreased feed efficiency and feed intake, nephrosis, lameness, enlarged costochondral junctions. Increased calcium intake is a risk factor for calcium-containing urinary precipitates; however, moderate-to-high calcium levels may be protective against calcium oxalate precipitate, Calcium in meals may bind with oxalate in the guy decreasing the risk."

So, unless there is a medical reason for increased calcium content, it can pose a risk for causing other conditions. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Nephrosis is the result of degenerative changes caused by toxins and poisons that target the kidneys or by ischemia (inadequate blood flow to the kidneys). The most important nephrotoxins are aspirin, ibuprofen, and butazolidin. Certain antibiotics are nephrotoxic, particularly when given for prolonged periods or in high doses - they include polymyxin B, gentamicin, amphotericin B, and kanamycin. http://www.wiki-pet.com/health/dog/condition/index.php?condition_id=318&name=nephritis+and+nephrosis

costochondral /cos·to·chon·dral/ (kos″to-kon´dril) pertaining to a rib and its cartilage. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/costochondral

urinary precipitates are crystals or stones in the urinary system. There are several different types of crystals/stones that affect the urinary system and some are caused by excess calcium - the oxalate type stone.

[Dodie]

Thanks again!
Her urine specimen came back good I'm happy to report. Showed no crystals or anything. White count was still a little high, so she is keeping Molly on amoxicillin for another couple of weeks.
I was not clear in my question concerning calcium. I have a muti-vitamin powder that was prescribed for Molly by a Holistic vet back in February. It contains 30 mg. of calcium along with many other vitamins and minerals. I just want to give that in Mollys home made food until she is completely changed over to the canned grain free food I bought today.

[molly muffin]

Well I'll leave others to answer the question about the calcium. I have my molly on the SO food for crystals, which isn't perfect, but so far it's the only thing that gets her to drink enough.
I'm so glad that no more crystals are showing up! yay. I hate waiting to find out about that myself, so know how stressful it can be. My Molly was on antibiotic for a long time last March. Sometimes it is better to make sure things are completely cleared up by going longer. It depends on the history of how long it has taken before to clear it and with the white count still a bit high, better to go long and be safe.
Still that is a good result!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Concernedmom]

Hi Dodie
I was reading your posts about Molly and I'm not happy for what brings you here but glad that you are here now. Some of these people have a wealth of information on cushings and are always there to help. I just wanted to make a comment about Molly's shivers. My Maltese had them too when he was on 30mg of Trilostane and we couldn't figure out why he was having them. I described them the same way you did it's like he came in from the cold or just had a bath and began to shiver/tremble all over his body. Turns out it was a reaction to the Trilostane. He had them everyday for a little over a week and then started to have other side effects that we couldn't ignore so we stopped treatment and never restarted. The shivering is spoken about in Dechra's Vetoryl Technical brochure. Now I use homemade diet and holistic remedies that are working good for us. I speak more about it on my other thread

[labblab]

I just wanted to add that through the years, we've had several owners who have mentioned odd "shivering" episodes with their Cushpups -- mine, included. It is indeed true that tremoring is listed as a possible side effect with trilostane, but we've also seen it happen with dogs taking Lysodren, too. With my own dog, the shivering started before he even started trilostane treatment. It definitely worsened after he began the medication, and I was very worried about it. But after several weeks, it stopped altogether and never reappeared. I've often wondered whether these episodes may be related more to rapid changes in cortisol level (either up or down) rather than the specific medication that is being used. But of course, I have no way of knowing that.

As I say, I just wanted to throw these thoughts into the mix so as to let you know that the shivering may end up stopping on its own, or at least not creating any big problem for Molly. Any new issue should always be mentioned to your vet, though.

Marianne

[Dodie]

Dear Concernedmom,lablab,&molly muffin,

Thanks so much for your replys and thoughts on my Molly. She has been off the Vetoryl for the past week or so. She will have another blood test on 3/22. One of the Vets especially I believe, would be open to a more natural treatment. She is already on Chinese Herbs. Would you please share with me what natural treatment you are using, and what you are feeding your dog?
Dodie & Molly

[Dodie]

I get so much good information and comfort and support from this site!
What I don't understand about my Mollys situation is that she does not drink very much water at all. In fact, I pour water into a bowl containing a little Beeche Nut chicken & broth baby food, just to get her to drink some.
Does not try to steal food.
Pees more frequently but no accidents in the house or at work.
Does not yet have a pot belly.
She does however like to lay on a cooler surface.
She can jump on the bed and into the car since we stopped the vetoryl.
Just so much to try and figure out.
Dodie& Molly

[Dodie]

I will be taking Molly into the Vet tomorrow for anothewr ACTH test after being off Vetoryl for the past couple of weeks. I am taking her to see a Internal Medicine Specialist on April 10th and would like to have as much info for him as possible to bring with me. I am going to ask my vet to also do a urine culture and sensitivity test and check her electrolytes. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

As always thanks for your help,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your posts about diet and your question concerning tests to ask about into Molly's original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Dodie]

I seem to have trouble doing that. I guess I should be just adding on to the original post.
Sorry about that.

[molly muffin]

Maybe have a upc done? check protein and creatine in the urine. Without symptoms showing stronger, I wouldn't probably restart vetroyl. Especially as she is doing pretty good while not on it.
Sounds like you have a plan and a plan we always say is a good thing. Not just for Molly but for you too.
You're doing really well.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

I agree with Sharlene, in the absence of symptoms, I would not be in a hurry to restart if she were my pup.

[Harley PoMMom]

I am going to ask my vet to also do a urine culture and sensitivity test and check her electrolytes. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

As always thanks for your help,
Dodie & Molly

The urine culture and sensitivity test is a good place to start, I would ask the vet if they know how long the lab "grows" the bacteria as some labs only culture for 24-48 hours, 72 hours is optimal.

[Dodie]

Thanks mollymuffin, addy,& Harley PoMMom,

I added what you said to my list. I'll keep you posted!

[molly muffin]

So, how is your little molly. What an absolute cutie pie.

Hope all is well. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome from Sim and me, I was wondering if they ever checked Molly's thyroid levels? That could explain some of the symptoms too....

[Dodie]

Hi Simba's Mom and Molly Muffin,

I found an IMS that has seen Molly and an ultrasound shows she has bladder stones. The cushing's has been on the back burner for the past few weeks, as she has been doing pretty well.
He did ACTH Test test to check her cortisol today. If need be, he will control her dosage of vetoryl. I like my regular Vets, but they were not very familiar from what I could see, with cushing's disease. Her original tests were done by them.
I want her to have the very best. I would be lost without her. She even comes to work with me each day.

Dodie & molly
How is everything with you?

[molly muffin]

We're good here, well, I'm waiting on the results of a urine culture to see if Molly has a UTI or not. She too is prone to kidney stones, and is on the SO diet. Anyway, I took a sample in yesterday and the in house didn' t show anything but the vet wanted to send out for a culture, which I was in complete agreement with, so waiting. Such fun. :)
How lucky that you get to take her to work with you. I'm sure Molly would freak if she went to work with me every day. She does love it though when I work from home which is a couple days a week.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

What does your Vet do about your Molly's kidney stones? My regular Vet gave me a Chinese Herb to try and dissolve them but I don't believe it is working. She has been taking it since April 8th.
The IMS said she needs to have them removed so he can analyze them, then prescribe diet and meds. I'm having the surgery done by a Surgeon at his facility, because they provide round the clock care. My regular Veterinary Hospital would charge 1/4 the price but nobody is there at night.
My Molly is also very scared of thunder , and fireworks. I'm trying to find out what to do for her. Each year it just seems worse. I just bought her a Thunder Shirt, but it did not seem to work. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Dodie,

Be sure to find out what kind of stones Molly has - that will tell you what kind of diet she will need to be on as different stones require different dietary approaches. Oxalate stones are common in cush pups but there are many other types of stones so be sure to find out what type she has. ;)

Thunder/noise phobias - we now live with this. Squirt has become increasingly more terrified of storms, even heavy rain makes her nervous now. I bought the Thundershirt for her but it makes it very difficult for her to move so I now use what is called the TTouch Body Wrap. The secret to either of these is to put them on the pup while all is calm and they are happy so they start to associate the shirt / wrap with good times, not anxious times. If you put them on after they are nervous, they will start to associate them with the bad feelings, not the good ones. We have to sorta train their minds. ;) Here is how to do the body wrap (I use an ACE bandage that is about 3" wide with Velcro on one end) - http://www.crvetcenter.com/ttouch.php

Until she stopped eating, I would give her extra melatonin when I knew storms were predicted. Moms of storm scared pups have to become weather nuts! :D Since the seizure, she won't eat her food if it has meds in it so she hasn't gotten any melatonin in about a month now. BUT I can still give her the herbs I use for this fear - Passionflower and Skullcap. I use dried herbs, make a tea, let it cool, and give her some by mouth via a syringe. They do help a great deal. If you want to try this, I can recommend a good place to get the herbs and tell you how to make the tea - it is very easy. ;) You can start with the melatonin; get the 1mg tablets that are plain melatonin - not time released, extended wear, etc - just plain melatonin. It also comes in higher doses; Squirt was taking 3mg at a time and she weighs 13 lbs. The 1mg will allow you to start low and go up as needed in small increments. ;) Since Squirt's been off her feed and not getting her meds, that also means she's not getting the Lysodren - and she hasn't been near as nervous as she was so I think the higher cortisol is helping with this issue, too, right now.

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

For the thunder issue, I would talk to your vet about melatonin. My boy, Harley, was terrified of any loud noises especially thunder but when he was on the melatonin his fear of thunder went away.

Regarding the stones, analysis of the stones is necessary for identification of the complete chemical composition.

Struvite and calcium oxalate stones are by far the most common. My noncush furbaby, Bear, has had 2 operations to remove calcium oxalate stones.

For this he gets potassium citrate. There is no recommended diet to dissolve calcium oxalate stones, just prevention.

I believe for struvite stones there are diets that help with the formation of them.

A well hydrated dog is very important with either struvite or calcium oxalate stones.

Wishing you and Molly the best of luck with her surgery and please do keep us updated.

Love and hugs, Lori

[Dodie]

Thanks Leslie & lori,

I just called my Vets Office and asked about getting the Melatonin. I will also try using the Thundershirt as you recommended Leslie.
Molly only took Trilostane 30 mg. for a total of 9 days straight, and has not had any for at least 1&1/2 months now.
Lori, you said your dog has had 2 operations for stones? During how long a period of time? Molly's ultrasound showed one stone in her bladder and one in her urethra.
How long is the recovery period?
The IMS told me he will see what kind of stones they are when he operates.

Dodie & Molly

[Harley PoMMom]

My boy, Bear, had his operations, I believe 5 years apart. It has been 3 years since his last operation for calcium oxalate stones. He was 9 or 10 years old when he had his last surgery for stone removal (they were in his bladder) and he recuperated very well, back then it only took him about a week to be back to his "ole self." :)

Love and hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Hi Dodie, My molly has I believe it is the struvite and they dissolved. Luckily they were very small. Now she is on an SO food that makes her thirsty. As long as she drinks enough water, it seems to keep them small and they can dissolve. So far, lucky. She's had several instances where small ones have formed but have been able to pass and not cause a blockage. Water for us is the key. Any slight change off the SO food (which I do not care for) and she drinks less, so I've kept her on that and give her small portions of chicken breast with no fat, for protein addition.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

Hi sharlene & lori,

Molly has been on an herb to try and dissolve the stones. She has never been one to drink very much water at all. I aiways noticed that, but didn't worry about it. Now, I add plain chicken and broth baby food to a bowl of water to get her to drink at least two bowls each day. She is scheduled to have surgery on May 30th as long as they do not cause a problem before then.

Nice talking to you and thanks as always for the info.

Dodie & Molly

[Dodie]

My Vet just prescribed 3mg. Melatonin capsules - 1 Capsule 2 x daily. I see on here that usually you start out at 1 mg. I want to start this so it can be in her system for when we do have a Thunderstorm, but I need to know if 3mg. right away can harm her.
Is it okay to just start right off with 3 mg. Also, this is a small white capsule, not a tablet as I've seen mentioned on here before.

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

3mg should be fine. I suggested the 1mg because melatonin can make them sleepy at first but they typically adjust fairly soon. Just be prepared for a few sleepy days. ;) Squirt weighs 13 lbs and until she got sick she was taking 9 1/2mg of melatonin a day PLUS extra for storms.

As long as what you have is plain melatonin, a capsule should be fine. If you paid your vet for these, tho, you may find they are much less expensive from a store. Most grocery stores, WalMart, and such carry it here in the US and it's not that expensive. Just make sure not to get time released, extended release, or any of the other neat tricks added...just plain ole melatonin. ;)

[Dodie]

I drive myself crazy with worry. What would happen if it was time released? The script just says melatonin and I called the office and spoke to one of the receptionists who said she was pretty certain it was probably just plain melatonin.

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Dodie]

I didn't know if I needed to start a new thread to ask this but is it safe to still give the heartworm med if the dog has cushing's? Same with the flea & tick control?
A holistic Vet had told me to give Molly the Heartworm preventative only every three months? Also, to not do any immunizations.

Thanks,
Dodie & molly

[Squirt's Mom]

Yes, all posts concerning Molly go in this thread. ;)

[molly muffin]

I think that they said it was fine to use like frontline or something similiar. As for immunizations, if you can get a waiver and they have enough antibodies to not need them then I'd skip the ones you can. Rabies, check into, some states can give the 3 year shot and you don't have to get that every year either.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

It's obvious that Squirt is very precious. Great to see a little dog so very happy!
My dog Molly is and always has been very terrified of Thunderstorms and fireworks, so I kept seeing melatonin mentioned here and realizes that should help calm her down. I asked my Vet and she gave to me right away.Well anyway, I gave it to her as presribed for the very first time on May 6th. On Thursday evening May 9th, I noticed that Molly was walking funny, that her right foot particularly was pointed almost completely out to the right of her body and she had to keep sitting down each time she took a step. As I was calling the Vet, her legs went completely out from under her.
That afternoon, I had applied Vectra 3D Flea and Tick Repellent to her and my other dog, so I thought Molly was having a reaction to that. - My other dog was fine. My regular Vet was not there so the Vet on duty just had me apply dish detergent bring her there and he gave her a shot of Benedryl.
Well she still was not acting like herself, so I looked up the side effects of Melatonin and discovered that I believe she was given way too much. Molly weighs 16.2 lbs. My Vet presribed 3 mg. in the morning and 3 mg. in the evening each day.From what I see on line, t she should have been given 1 - 1.5 mg. ONCE a day. She is finally acting more like herself today.
I am still so new at this, that I can use any advice to ensure I'm doing the right things for her. I love her dearly and my Vet is really starting to scare me.
Also, do you or anyone else on the forum know a good basic multi-vitamin I can give Molly? The IMS wants to keep her on Hills k9 w/d until she has her bladder stones removed on May 30th.
Thanks for your help,
Dodie & Molly

[Squirt's Mom]

It does sound as if that may have been a bit much to start Molly on. I would start with 1mg and only use it when there are storms, not every day. Melatonin is used to treat a form of Cushing's called Atypical and Squirt (average of 14 lbs) was taking 9 1/2mg a day, directed by her IMS. She got extra when it stormed. But she started with 3mg am / pm and had to adjust - she was sleepy at first. But just for thunder phobia, I wouldn't give it to Molly every day and start with as low a dose as possible then increase slowly if that doesn't help.

As for the vitamins, I wouldn't worry about that right now either - wait until the stones are out and you know what type she had. The type of stone can mean that she will not need any extra of certain things like magnesium or foods high in oxalates. So if I were you I wouldn't make any changes until after the surgery. ;) Others may have differing views so you might ask about these things on Molly's thread, too. When is the surgery?

EDITED TO ADD:

The previous two posts were copied from Squirt's thread where Dodie originally posted but I wanted to be sure everyone saw her questions.

[molly muffin]

Hi Dodie,

I'm not overly familiar with melatonin use myself as we haven't tried it with our molly.
How is Molly doing today? Has she had anything other than the leg problem, such as vomiting, diarrhea, acting confused, shivering? Melatonin could cause serotonin to get out of whack too in the case of an overdose. If she is still not normal, I think I would take her to either your vet or a Vet ER and explain what was given, how much and the reaction.
The thing is that the dose given, should Not have caused an overdose, however... Every dog is different. They all metabolize medicine different and they all have different sensitivities to medicine. Always a rule of thumb with medication is start low and move up as needed. This also helps to enable the body to deal with medications better, I think.
I hope that Molly is better today and that this symptom is something that is going to pass.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

Hi to you both,

Molly's surgery is scheduled for May 30th. She is finally starting to act better. She seems much stronger today.and not sleeping as much. For an 11 yr. old Molly is generally very playful and extremely happy.
The IMS and my Vet say that Molly's cortisol level is within normal range so they are not thinking Cushings right now.
The Vet who originally diagnosed Molly with Cushings is the owner of the practice that I go to. He is not my usual Vet. My regular Vet did presribe the melatonin though. I'm losing faith in them.

As always, thanks for your help,
Dodie & molly

[molly muffin]

Ugh, it can be very frustrating. One day you will think cushings and then give it a bit and think nope couldn't be. Unfortunately the vets are in the same predicament as far as trying to figure this all out.
A general rule though is that if something else is going on, you treat that and then wait to see if cushings signs are still there as they can go away once the issue is cleared up. In Molly's case, the stones.

It sounds like the melatonin is leaving Molly's system. You know now that she is sensitive to it. Which is what I think caused the problems, so for her, what would be fine in another dog, just was too much for her.


Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[apollo6]

Just dropped by to say hi. Hope you and Molly are doing well. Addy and I would say when it got to overwhelming. Put the Cushing in the draw and close it for awhile to take a break.
Hugs Sonja and Angle Apollo

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Dodie, Peety's mom, also a Shih-Tzu 12 y/o. We are in the process of finding answers for some of Peety's issues. I know how overwhelmed you feel, but just hang in there and stay close to this community because they have wonderful advice and they have hugh hearts. And I have learned you cannot ask to many questions. They have tons of patience.

I read your posts about the thunderstorms and I just wanted to add that I had a Bassett Hound a few years back that was so totally terrified of thunderstorms. I was told by my vet they can tell when the Barrimetric Pressure changes before we even know a storm is coming. I live in Fla and our storms can be very severe. At first I went to the vet and got her some meds,(honestly don't remember the name) When a storm came up I gave her the prescribed amount. The problem (and it only took once to know this) was the meds lasted for at least 8 hours, our storm lasted 1/2 hour. So for 7 1/2 hours she was zonked. So I decided I would just try to encourage her to give it up, meaning she had a safe place, solely by her own design and she would "eventually" go there. Sometimes it would take a while, but she would finally give in. Her safe place was in the back of my closet. In the middle of the house, dark and safe. And I could never take her there, she had to be ready and only she knew when. So I understand that very well. I found just talking to her and encourageing her was the best medicine.
I'm glad you are now part of this community, don't be discouraged, there is always an answer for all the questions. And since our fur-babies cannot, we have to search them out. You're doing really good. Hang in there.

Pat Peety's #1fan







n reading your questions, I a very

[molly muffin]

My Molly likes behind the couch if she is in the living room or under the bed if she is upstairs with us. (she Wants to be in the bed with us, but she is so scared that the best place for her is under the bed where it is dark and she has a bed inside of a suitcase. (her choice)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

Sharlene, Sonja & Pat,

Hi and thanks for your thoughts and encouragement. I've tried everything with Molly and the thunderstorms. I got her when she was 7 months old from somebody who had many, many puppies and dogs. I believe she left them in a fenced in area but out in the open, so I think that's how Molly became so afraid.
She justs shakes terribly and scratches at my leg. I've tried talking to her and actually prepared a few little "beds" for her in darker areas like behind the chair I sit in while in the livingroom. I just hate to see her be that scared.
She's my little pal who is always with me, even everyday at work! I love her more than I can say.

Dodie & Molly

[Peety's Fur-mom]

I so get it. I always felt horrible that I couldn't do more. But I soon learned that it was up to her. I would talk to her and cry and plead with her to go to her safe place. She wouldn't even let me hold her, she would just cry and tremble. It is not fun. The worst part was if I was at work when a storm came. I would call my dad and he would go sit with her. I am so sorry for your lil one. I know how you are trying, I found patience was the best thing. Lots of patience. Maybe there is something that you can get that will relax her but won't have any long term effects. Hugs to both of you.

Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Dodie]

Hi Pat,

Do you have a Thundershirt? That didn't seem to help Molly at all. We're due for some storms here, so we just have to get through it.

Dodie & Molly

[Peety's Fur-mom]

No never used a thundershirt. I've seen them at the pet store. No my Bassett Shelby passed some time ago. She never did relax. She was that way with firewords too. Every time we get a storm I think of her.

[Dodie]

Molly has been diagnosed with bladder cancer. Can not be operated on. It is in the urethra. I am completely devestated.
I took her to an Oncologist who gave her a chemo tratment last Tuesday. I can barely put this in writing.
Apparently she never did have Cushings. Does anyone have knowledge of this type of cancer?

[molly muffin]

Oh no, how devastating for you. I just went back and read through Molly's entire thread.

I am guessing this was discovered during Molly's surgery for the stones on May 30? How is she doing after the first chemo treatment? Did the vet say if there was anything that could have told you/us that this was a cancer issue? The WBC is the only thing that I can think of.

I am so, so sorry :( I'm going to check and see what I can find out about it. Do you have any other information as to what type of cancer cells? Small, large, how invasive, etc?

Big Hugs to you and a bell scritch to your molly
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Oh No, I am so sorry to hear that.:(:( How is Molly doing with the chemo? I don't really know anything about bladder cancer. I had a fur-baby with lymphoma. I did chemo on her and actually she did very well. That was my first experience with treatment on a pet. It's so different than on humans, no hair loss, no getting sick, at least that was my experience. Hope Molly is doing well with it. I know how you must be feeling today. I really do....Certainly not the news you wanted. It is like a punch in the gut and it really stinks. :(:(:( Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and Molly. You are doing everything you can for her and I know she knows that too. Do you have her on Vitamins? I honestly believe that anything you can do to improve overall health is a good thing. I do it for Peety and myself. You never know when a health crisis is going to present itself. I like to know that he has the healthiest body going in to a crisis. How often are you doing the treatments?

I'm so sorry. Please give Molly an extra big hug from Peety and Me. And sending an extra extra big hug for you my dear. One day at a time.

Pat and Peety

[Trish]

I do know something about bladder cancer, but in humans not dogs unfortunately. Alot of them are highly treatable with chemo directly into the bladder, but it depends on what type it is and how invasive the tumour is. I presume they biopsied it to get histology so if you find out what type, I will put my thinking cap on and see if I can apply the knowledge I have in humans to Molly with the help of Mr Google! It would also be interesting to hear what type of chemo they used on her.

I know in humans that patients with bladder cancer can live a long life if it is not too invasive while periodically receiving chemo to keep the tumour at bay, so lets hope thats what Molly has and this treatment will help her :)

[Dodie]

Thank you all. Molly is not doing well today - very weak and lethargic. She had her first Chemo treatment on 6/6 with Miloxantrone. My Oncologist is away until Wednesday, but his office said she should be seen at the ER. Her cancer is rare and a bad kind of bladder cancer but she could have some time if she responds to treatment.

[frijole]

Sending your cute little one hugs and love. Strength to you mom. Kim

[Mel-Tia]

Sending you some more love, hugs and postive vibes for You and your little one

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Big Big hugs.....Sending prayers for you and Molly
Pat and Peety

[molly muffin]

Oh I am so sorry that Molly is not doing well today. Did you take her to the ER?
When I was looking up information, Transitional cell carcinoma, was the type of bladder cancer most commonly mentioned. I'm not sure though if this is the one Molly has.
It did seem to be possible to give them some time with treatment, if they respond well, etc, so I do hope that Molly perks up and responds well to the chemo. There were different types of chemo I believe and combinations.

Big hugs to you and scritches to Molly
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Fellasmom]

I'm so sorry to hear of the devastating news you've recieved.I'm hoping that they can make Molly more comfortable and she perks up a bit and responds well to the chemo.I will keep her and you in my prayers.
Patty

[Trish]

Hope Molly is OK, hopefully it was just side effects of the chemo and she has settled down again now. I hope the treatment works for her and you have lots of time left to spend together. :)

[Dodie]

All,

They admitted Molly into the hospital when I took her to the ER yesterday. Her white cell count was very low, she had a high fever, and her blood pressure was high. They said this is from the chemo, as sometimes it takes a little time to get the dosage right especially in small dogs. When I spoke to them at 4:30 this morning, they said she was doing a little better, wagging her tail and trying to give kisses. Thank you all for your wonderful thoughts and prayers they mean so much. The Oncologist will be back tomorrow so he will see her then.

[Fellasmom]

Aww...how sweet that she is wagging her tail and trying to give kisses!:).Sounds like she is perking up a bit and hoping she continues to improve.I will keep both you and Molly in my thoughts and prayers.
Patty

[Mel-Tia]

What a little trooper, they are so tuff our pups

I am so pleased to hear she is perking up. Sending more love hugs and postive vibes to cover today

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Budsters Mom]

What a sweet little love bug:)Sending you both thoughts, prayers, love and healing energy.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Dodie]

Thanks to all of you so much!

[molly muffin]

Oh thank god. I'm glad she has perked up and is doing better. Kisses and tail wags are always welcome news. :)
so maybe it was just a tad bit much chemo for her. I'm sure the onocologist will have an opinion on that and has probably seen this before.
Hang in there!!!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

I spoke to the hospital Vet this morning, and Molly is doing everything but answering the phone! They all love her, and she has perked up so much since they treated her, that they keep her out of he crate as much as possible. I hope to pick her up today. The Oncologist returns today, so I plan on just going there to see what he says. This facility is really wonderful but extremely expensive. I'll keep you all updated!

[frijole]

This is terrific news. So happy for you and your girl. Kim

[molly muffin]

This is wonderful news!! So glad Molly is doing better. Of course they love her :) LOL That's a given

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

That is such great news. Good idea about going to see the oncologist can do it under the guise of visiting your sweet baby girl!

Hoping she can come home very soon

Mel
Xxxxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Great news, Sounds like they are wonderful with her. And she is wonderful with them. Hope she can come home soon. Praying for lots more kisses and tail wags. Big hugs for both of you.

Pat and Peety

[Dodie]

All,

I was able to bring Molly home yesterday. However, after speaking with the Oncologist the news was very freightening. He said her white blood cell count is extremely low from the chemo as well as her immune system being compromised, so she is not out of the woods by any means. He told me that this only happens with 10-15% of the dogs he has treated. It cost a few thousand dollars just to have her there from Monday-Wednesday, so she is being seen everyday by her regular Vet for fluids, vitamins and anti-biotics. I just want to get her white cell count back to as near normal as possible. I was trying so much to get her help with the chemo. I feel terrible about that. Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.

[Budsters Mom]

My thoughts and prayers being send to our sweet little Molly. I am glad she's home.:D

Hugs,
Kathy

[Roxee's Dad]

Very happy she is home:):D

With her immune system so low, keep her away from situations or areas where she may pick something up... Parks, playgrounds, other dogs.

[molly muffin]

Oh the poor baby. :( I'm glad she is home with you too. Did the vet say how long it might take to bring the white blood cell count back up?
Not every type of chemo works for every dog or person and maybe this one isn't the one for her. Will they try a smaller dose or a different time later when she is recovered from this round?

Hang in there. We know you are doing everything possible to help Molly and I hope she recovers very soon.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Oh, dear, my heart goes out to you. Please, don't feel terrible. I have been in your shoes and you only have so many options and you have to trust the Dr's to advise you and you did that. They will get the white count back up. Maybe the dose was to much for her. The best thing is she is home with you where she needs to be. And having your regular Vet monitor her everyday is a great help. They will be able to react to anything that is not right. I will be praying very specific prayers for you and her. Hang in there, it will be okay. And we are all here to support you.

Hugs, Pat and Peety

[Dodie]

Thanks to all of you. Your words of encouragement and prayers are what is keeping us going. I have appointments for her to see her Vet every morning to give her fluids, vitamin shot and a shot of Baytril. I put her pills in food but she doesn't eat enough in the morning to do that. He also does chinese herbs and he can do accupuncture which I read may be helpful. She does perk up after she has her treatment.

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Sending big hugs to you and Molly. You've been on my mind so much. Hope everything is much better and you are seeing improvement. Praying for her recovery. Pat and Peety

[Dodie]

Pat and Peety,

Thank you for thoughts and wishes. Molly is actually perking up a bit. She's eating more and has a little more energy. Her latest CBC showed that her white count had come up a little bit, but as her Vet said it is an improvement. I will be so thankful if we can get her white count back to even somewhat normal. We see the Vet every morning before work. She's with me all the time, so I watch over her like a hawk. I want her to be able to enjoy as much of her normal life as possible for as long as she can.

Thanks,
Dodie & Molly

[Trixie]

Dodie,
Hoping Molly's wbc continues to improve. It sounds like she's making great progress. She's probably so happy to be home with you and that's certainly helping her to get better! :p
Barbara

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Much better news, I'm so glad. :):) It may take some time but she will come back to her normal. You have a very caring Vet to want to have that much involvement, to see her everyday and react to whatever is going on. Reminds me of my Dr. Morgan, years ago I had a sick baby and Dr Morgan knew I did not want to leave her over night at the hospital, so she let me take her home every afternoon but then the next morning I took her back to the hospital for them to take care of her during the day. She was able to react to issues presented and then at the end of the day, home we would go. I know they have a staff overnight, at least some do, but I knew they would not give her constant attention, so that worked great for me and Dr. Morgan was wonderful. I'm glad your Vet is that involved. That is such a hugh help. We are still sending happy healing thoughts and big hugs.

Pat and Peety

[molly muffin]

Hope those WBC comes back up soon and Molly can feel a bit better. I'm sure Barbara is right, as long as you are with her, she is probably a pretty happy little dog. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

I'm hoping as the days go by Molly is getting her strength back following her chemo, are they going to do it again at a smaller dose? I guess it is like people though and the blood counts need time to recover before the next dose. Sending good wishes and lots of hugs your way! :)

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Dodie, How are you and Molly doing? I've been thinking about you and hoping that Molly is doing better after her treatment. It's so hard to see our lil ones sick. But she knows you are there. She knows how much you love her. Sending prayers for both of you.

Hugs, Pat and Peety

[Dodie]

Hi All,

Molly's white count is coming up ever so slowly. Unfortunately the chemo very nearly cost her her life. According to the Oncologist and my Vets some dogs like people just can not tolerate the treatments. It breaks my heart to have to realize this and I felt I could not accept that fact at first. But when I saw how awful she felt and how she could not eat or barely function I could not stand to see that. She was no where near the lively happy dog she has always been.
With the help of Chinese Herbs given by my Vet, she is starting to eat much better and her energy level has increased quite a bit. We still see the Vet every morning before work and on the weekend.
Thank Pat and Peety for always asking how she's doing. It means a lot to us.

Dodie & molly

[Budsters Mom]

Happy to hear that Molly is eating better and her energy level has increased. That is great news!:D
Hugs,
Kathy

[Harley PoMMom]

So happy to hear that Molly is feeling better, sending huge loving hugs to you both, Lori

[molly muffin]

Oh I'm so happy that Molly is doing a bit better. I know it is hard to realize that she can't tolerate the treatment. You are doing so well with her though.
Sounds like those chinese herbs are helping a lot. That's good, whatever works at this point is a good thing.
Hang in there!
Hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi Dodie, So glad to hear from you. I was so worried. Are they going to hold off on any more treatments? Dr Morgan years ago was treating one of my lil fur babies that was having seizures. Several a day. She told me in between the seizures to give her honey, and that would give her energy for the next one. I did and I could tell it helped her. Back then I didn't know about Manuka honey so I used what I could get. Today I would recommend Manuka honey because of the wonderful medicinal properties. I give Peety just a lil in his food everyday as well. Maybe it would help Molly to regain some of the energy that she lost after the treatments. Has Molly lost any weight? I know how hard this is, and I'm so sorry you and Molly are going through this. But you are doing great and Molly will perk up again. Those treatments are rough for sure. It's too bad with all the cancer research this is all we have as a resource. I'm so glad the Vet is proactive with her, because at least you do not feel like you are alone. Try to get vitamins in her too and ask the vet about something to increase her immune system. And just love her like crazy.
Everyday will get better, it's just so hard seeing them sick. But hang in there you are doing your absolute best and that is all that you can do.

Sending big healing hugs for both of you.

Pat and Peety

[frijole]

Just wanted you to know I am following along and although not much help I am keeping you both in my prayers and send love and strength your way. Kim

[Dodie]

It's always so comforting to hear from all of you. It's so difficult to try and control the stress of knowing what lies ahead. I love her so much.
Thanks for all your kind thoughts,
Dodie & Molly

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and prayers for you and your furbaby!!

[molly muffin]

I hope Molly continues to regain her strength. I know it is hard to think about the future. One day at a time is all you can really do. Just enjoy every single minute with her. Do those special things that she loves and take lots of pictures and videos.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Thinking about you and Molly, just wanted to say hi this morning. Hope it's a good day for you. Sending prayers and hugs.

Pat and Peety

[Budsters Mom]

We are here for you and sweet little Molly. Sending strength and healing energy your way. XXXXXX
Kathy

[Trish]

How is Molly doing? I hope she has recovered from her bout in hosptial and all the vet visits, have things settled down now? Thinking of you and sending hugs :)

[molly muffin]

Hi popping in to see how you and little miss molly are doing. :) I hope she has recovered some of her energy and the white blood cells are doing well now.
I hope that You are doing well too. This must be an emotional roller coaster you on and not a fun one.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dodie]

Hi All,

We did blood work which showed that Molly's white blood cell count has rebounded back to normal thankfully! Everything else looked pretty good too.
Her appetite is good and her energy level is fairly good. She still loves the car, and coming to work with me so my spirits have improved also.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and prayers,
Dodie & Molly

[Roxee's Dad]

Wonderful news :):)

[Squirt's Mom]

Great report, Dodie! :cool::):cool: I hope the trend continues!

[Budsters Mom]

Awesome news all around!:):):D:D xxxxxxx
Kathy

[Mel-Tia]

I am so pleased to read Molly's latest report, positive all round. Awesome news.

Hope you are having a great day today.

Big hug, kisses to miss Molly

Mel
Xxxx

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Dodie, that is great news for you and Molly. So happy to hear she has responded with positive results and your spirits are uplifted also. Sending big hugs to both of you.

Pat and Peety

[Trish]

That is good news!! So pleased to hear her blood cells have recovered, what a roller coaster that was!! You must be feeling much better having her by your side at work, keep in touch won't we as we love progress reports! :)

[Dodie]

Hi to all of you,

It's so good to know that you wonderful people think of Molly and me so often. Thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers.
We're still going to the Vet almost every morning for her fluids. This past weekend was pretty difficult with fireworks in the neighborhood, and then very loud thunderstorms. Molly was very freaked out, and had a bout of stomach trouble I believe partly as a result from all that. She was up most of the night last night, but she saw her vet this morning and he gave her a shot, so now we are at work and she seems to be resting comfortably.
Hope all of your little ones are doing well,
Dodie & molly