Homeopathic Treatment for Cushing's

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First, I am so glad I found this forum. I have been reading many of the post over the last few months.

My 9 year old dachshund (Anubis) was diagnosed with cushing's several months ago. The vet he has been seeing in Baton Rouge cares for rescue animals that come into the care of my sister who runs a rescue organization. He is supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable vets around for treatment of cushing's. I say this to clarify that I have no reason to question the treatment and advise he has given in our efforts to combat this disease.

All that being said, my poor Anubis has not responded well to Trilostane or Lysodren. We have tried both, and his latest blood results just came back only to show his cortisol levels still very high. there were no negative side effects from either medicine, except that they didn't help at all. I am already looking into homeopathic remedies for my Anubis. I can't see putting him through any more long trips to the vet (he is 90 miles away), overnight stays away from home, and more medications. And realistically there is a limit to what I am financially able to do, even though it breaks my heart to say that.

I have been reading as much as I can on homeopathic remedies for cushing's, but they vary so much from one article to the next I think I am more confused now that I was when I started. I keep seeing canned pumpkin come up. Some say dry food, others say canned. Anubis has always eaten excellent food (currently Orijen Senior), but never soft food. I have been giving him Denosyl since he was first diagnosed with cushing's to help with liver health.

Any other advice as far as supplements go? Anubis is currently 25 lbs, which is 6 lbs heavier than he was a year ago. He is a very powerfully built dog, and looked very healthy at 18-20 lbs. He now has very sever abdominal bloating though.

The first picture is him about 2 years ago (he is the red one). The second picture is just for giggles.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/stan_lafaver/IMG_1077.jpg

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/stan_lafaver/IMG_20120105_163955.jpg

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Anubis,

So sorry for the reasons that brought you to us but glad you found your way here.

If you could round up copies of all test that were done on Anubis and post any abnormalities that are listed that would help us a lot.

There are no homeopathic remedies available, that I know of, to treat Cushing's disease. Lysodren/Mitotane and Vetoryl/Trilostane are the two preferred drugs that are rx'd for this disease. I see in your post that both of these medicines were given to Anubis, could you tell us more about this? Such as how long they were prescribed, the dosages, and the results of the ACTH stim tests?

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Anubis sure is a cute boy and I look forward to hearing more about him.

Love and hugs,
Lori

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I will call and see if I can get the results faxed or emailed over. Hopefully I can get a hold of them. Since my sister brings so many rescue animals to him, he is giving me a reduced rate on everything, and some things like the ultrasound was done at no charge.

Thanks for the quick response!

[addy]

Hi and welcome from me as well.

Lori has done a great job asking for information and the history we need to help you sort things out so I wont repeat anything but will ask has Anubis been tested for hypothyroidism?

I also am wondering how you left things with your vet. What were his/her thoughts about Anubis not responding to either Vetoryl or Lysodren?

It can be expensive to treat Cushings when you have to tinker with doses a lot, trust me I know.;);) I'm glad this vet has been willing to work with you, that is great. I know it is hard and sometimes you just want a break from all the testing and appointments and expectations not being met, it can be a long hard road.

But now since you have found your way here and took that first step by starting your own thread, hopefully we can get a better idea of exactly what is going on and try to get a plan for you and your pup.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Anubis! :)

Love that name!

I am sorry to hear your baby boy has been having such a hard time with treatment. Has he had an abdominal ultrasound by any chance? If not, I would highly recommend one. It will not only let them see the adrenal glands, they can see many other organs like the spleen, gall bladder, stomach, intestines, kidneys, liver, and others. It is not unheard of that a tumor can cause false-positives on the Cushing's testing - it happened with my Squirt. A tumor was found on her spleen; once it was removed her cortisol returned to normal. So this is one thing I would look into for sure.

I am not at all familiar with homeopathic approaches but there are herbs that some claim success with. We haven't seen that here because the folks who choose this option don't continue with testing to see if the cortisol is controlled or not. They tend to simply disappear and we don't hear any further from them. If this is something you wish to pursue, I strongly recommend you seek a Holistic vet to consult. And please do keep us informed.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Concernedmom]

Hi & Welcome
I'm sorry to hear treatment didn't work for Anubis. I have a 13 year old Maltese and we just stopped treatment for Trilostane. Our decision was based on bad reaction to the drug. He had a good result the first month then for whatever reason his numbers rose and he had some bad reactions. I too did a lot of research on homeopathic remedies and didn't come up with anything I was comfortable trying on my own so I made an appointment with a Holistic vet for a consultation for next week. We figured it can't hurt to go in and talk maybe they can offer something. This was a hard decision to make but everyone has to make the right decision for themselves. I have a thread set up already that I will post with my update to the vet. Good luck.

[molly muffin]

That is the one thing that we know consistently from so many members dealing with cushings. Every dog is different and how they react to the drugs will be different too.

Posting the test results as Lori mentioned would be a good start. It is suspicious that there was no reaction to either drug, except for the cortisol to remain uncontrolled. That makes me wonder as Leslie mentioned, if there might not be something else going on that is having an affect of the cortisol production. Just a thought of course and I'd certainly be interested in knowing what your vet thought about it too.
That is really nice of him to work with your sisters rescue group and to give discounts. Man if only there were more like that around. I know there are, it just doesn't seem to be enough of them. :)

Absolutely if you do decide to go with the holistic vet route we would be very interested in knowing what is recommended and how treatment progresses, as you never know when it might help someone else down the road too.

Looking forward to hearing more about you and your dare I say litte bronco based on the giggle picture.:D:D

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

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Still trying to get the test results. Should have them soon.

To answer a few questions, I asked and he did have a thorough ultrasound of adrenal and stomach. He did have a complete blood panel done when this all started and hyperthyroid was ruled out.

Anubis's treatment started with 20mg of Trilostane/day. After a couple of weeks another ACTH was done, and his cortizol levels were basically the same as they were when he started. As I mentioned, in the first 4-6 days his symptoms seemed to subside. Less hunger and thirst, and more happy go lucky. That didn't last however.

He was bumped up to 40mg/day of Trilostane and we saw no signs of improvement over the course of the next few weeks, after which another ACTH was done and the levels had only dropped slightly. At that point the vet decided he wasn't responding to the medication and didn't want to continue increasing the dosage. He was taken off of Trilostane for 1 month before starting Lysodren. This was partially due to another bladder infection he had developed and we wanted to get that completely cleared up before proceeding. On to the Lysodren.

After the 1 week loading period of 250mg/day, another ACTH was done and while his levels did improve, it was far less than what the vet hoped for. I was told he expected the levels to have dropped many times more than what they had. But, it was something.

As of now I am waiting for the vet and lab to consult and come up with the next suggestion. Apparently the lab who performed the blood test puts all of the dogs information and test results into a computer and it gives a recommendation (??).

Anubis has had no bad or adverse reactions that we can see while on the medication. His weight has remained the same during this entire time.

I have ordered a freeze dried raw food for him to start eating. It is expensive, but I am hoping it will help. I will post more when I have additional info.

Thanks to all who have responded. Obviously you are here because your companion is having a similar problem. I am probably not alone in being pretty emotional about seeing my beloved companion this way. I find myself thinking back to when I picked him up at 6 weeks of age and all we have been through together. Very tough!!

[Squirt's Mom]

After the 1 week loading period of 250mg/day, another ACTH was done and while his levels did improve, it was far less than what the vet hoped for. I was told he expected the levels to have dropped many times more than what they had. But, it was something.

Here is why the Lyso "didn't work" - the dose is too low. At 25 lbs, Anubis weighs 11.3636...kg. (25 / 2.2) The loading dose for Lsyo is 50mg/kg/day. So his loading dose would be 11.35kg X 50mg = 568.1818...mg/day to be given in two doses, 1/2 am, 1/2 pm. (This would be rounded down to 500mg a day since the tablets come in that dose.) He should have been taking 250mg twice a day.

The length of time it takes to load is not a set time. It can take 3 days or 3 months, tho the average is closer to a week. The amount of time is not how one determines if the load is achieved - the signs are along with an ACTH. Your vet should have told you what to look for that would indicate Anubis was loaded.

So the Lyso wasn't given a fair shot. Your vet cannot make the determination this doesn't work for Anubis either just yet since it wasn't given correctly. ;) Here is a link on Lysodren from our Helpful Resource section -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

Hope this helps.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

Hello. I agree 100% with Leslie. The dosage was too low on lysodren. Double that dose and load for a week and then do a test and I guarantee you'll see greater progress. There is no set rule - just guidelines but they are good ones and have been around for over twenty years.

The best thing you can do is exactly what you are doing and that is getting up to speed on what cushing's is and understanding the drug, the dosing, how it all works. I would guess from how quickly your vet switched off of trilo and over to lysodren that he/she doesn't treat a lot of cushing's patients and as a result is very conservative (too much so) with treatment in order to be safe. The problem is that it takes longer, doesn't work and is expensive and stressful as you are finding out.

My dog holds the record for taking the longest to load but once she loaded it stuck and I was on auto-pilot until she passed of old age at 16 1/2. So cushing's is not a death sentence and is not really hard to treat once you get thru the load. Key is getting the dose right and all you need to do is up it.

So don't lose faith. Don't waste a red cent on homeopathic drops because if they worked we would have all bought them and this site wouldn't even exist. Trust me on that one! :)

Glad you found us and don't worry - we'll help you thru this. I had to switch vets multiple times before I found one that knew what he was doing. If I can learn this stuff so can you. Just read the link Leslie gave you, visit our resource section and read a bit and ask us questions.

Take care. Kim

[addy]

Well, but you didnt really give the Trilostane a chance either. Starting dose recommends 1mg per pound but, it can take moe than that with some dogs. My pups weigh 17 pounds and takes 50mg, 30 in the am and 20 in the pm and needs another dose change to 30/30.

We have had upteen dose changes. Sorry, but I dont know that either drug (did not work) maybe just wasnt followed through correctly. I would be really interested in seeing those ACTH tests.

[molly muffin]

It's true, that definitely explains why the lysodren didn't work. A lot of vets are scared of the lysodren I think.
However, with a vet experienced with it, then it can be Very effective. I'm really surprised that a vet wouldn't be up on the literature for dosage, since it's very well documented and like Kim said, has been around for a long time.
Yes, we are all here because of the same things, one way or another, cushings has come into our lives and affected our beloved companions, that we love so much.
Every journey is different and unique, but in some respects they are also all the same. We worry, we watch everything like a hawk, and thankfully we have this site to share with others going through the same thing.

Hang in there and have a chat with your vet about dosage and maybe ask how much experience and successful cases he has had treating with lysodren. That is always a good place to start.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin