Intro...Baileys mom

[Jennifer blume]

Hello,
I have a 13 year old jack Russell terrier named bailey. Just found out via the 2nd ultrasound this month that bailey has an adrenal tumor & cushings. As of November I noticed her pot belly and thought it was bloating. Trying to get up to speed on this disease and. What drugs/ herbal type meds I can give her. Bailey has been off vaccines since 2006 as we moved from California to Hawaii, and my new vet bluntly told me there was no need to give vaccines in Hawaii, or I would be subjecting her to cancer. Secondly, bailey has been on a raw food diet , primal, since 2007 when I was told she needed to lose weight for arthritis. So I guess my research of vaccines and diet causing cushings makes bailey an exception. Fr the past year she has been on previous, then metacam, then rimadyl for arthritis. I watched her ALT go from 100, to 300, to 1000 in January and just recently 1669 in February. NSAIDs are done, and medicating with tramadol, gabapentin and glucosamine, weekly Adaquan injections (since Sept 2012) and denamarin to help the liver. Also giving dandelion/witch. Hazel drops to food. The biggest cushings symptoms she has are the belly, back leg weakness, and this weird thing she does with her mouth, sort of a yawn like her tongue feels thick or numb. She is on the hills prescription ld diet, but refused the kibble, and lately refuses the canned, even when mixed with ground turkey and a nugget of primal raw. I have been looking into treatment possibilities, but it seems the consensus is cushex and supraglan don't work. I even picked up some melatonin drops and flaxseed with lignans yesterday. Still waiting to hear from the vet if she can take the harder drugs for cushings with her toxic liver Alt. pretty much she just sleeps the day away, and now has trouble supporting her weight with her arthritic front limbs. I hope to post a picture soon, as bailey back in her prime was a swimming machine, and sadly our exercise consists of me taking her for a walk in a baby sling.
Thanks,
Jennifer

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome Jennifer and Bailey.

I'm glad you found us but sorry for the reason you needed to. This is a very hard disease to normally get a firm diagnosis on. You're ahead by knowing there is an adrenal tumor and that is what you need to look at treating.

One of the things that cushing dogs all have in common it seems is a higher ALP and ALT's than regular dog. With an adrenal tumor it is possible that the tumor is causing the problems with the liver.
Do you have copies of the blood work that has been done and especially the ACTH and/or LDDS cushing tests. If so if you could post the abnormal results, along with unit of measure and range, that would be very helpful.
Did you vet talk to you about surgery to remove the adrenal tumor and is that something you would consider?
The best thing that any of us can do is to become more knowledgeable about the disease and our options.
Some of the others will be along to welcome you and probably have many more questions to ask. We ask a Lot of questions, because having a complete picture helps us to know and understand what is going on with your Bailey.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Jennifer:
i wanted to welcome you and your baby, and tell you I too have a Jack Russell with Cushings, and she also does that thing with the tongue. I am trying to figure out exactly what is causing it, so if you find out please let me know. This is a wonderful place to get info to hlp your dog. Good luck and God Bless Us All, and all our babies.

[Jennifer blume]

Hello,
My dog Bailey who is usually ravenous and eats everything has suddenly developed a picky palette. She gets her blood panel test on Wednesday to get a baseline before starting Lysodren on Sunday, march 3rd. Everyday feeding her has become a challenge, as she eats something one day, and the next refuses the same thing. Recently she refused even milk, which was always a favorite. Half of our usual treats she also refuses. Almost like her taste buds have completely changed. When she eats, she usually swallows without chewing. I haven't noticed anything weird inside her mouth, but she does do this yawn type thing, like her tongue feels thickened or something. We were just diagnosed with cushings recently, but she developed the big belly 3 months ago. Just wanting to know if anyone else has had a loss of appetite before even starting the drugs. The biggest concern with her is a really high ALT. within 3 weeks she rose from 1,000 to 1,7000. This time last year, her ALT was a mere 100.

[addy]

Hi,

Glad you found us and I wish you a warm welcome. Wow, that is a pretty big jump in ALT in such a short time. What other symptoms of Cushings does your dog have?

If my dog had suddenly developed a picky appetite I would be thinking twice about starting Lysodren and start looking at doing further tests for other diseases but perhaps you have already done that? Testing for Cushings during times of other non adrenal illnesses can result in false positives.

If you could give us more history and symptoms that would be great!

Again, welcome!

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about Bailey's loss of appetite into her original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

The biggest concern with her is a really high ALT. within 3 weeks she rose from 1,000 to 1,7000. This time last year, her ALT was a mere 100.

If this is not a typo and you meant to type ALK instead of ALT, then this is very alarming indeed. Your vet should be looking into liver disease NOW and forgetting about Cushing's. If your vet has not talked to you about her liver, get on the phone right this minute (or first thing in the morning) and insist she look at Bailey's liver function immediately. Liver disease could well be why she is not eating. Please let us know how she is doing and what the vet says.

Do NOT start the Lysodren as long as she is not eating well and not until the liver has been checked out. Liver disease is one of the other conditions that can mimic Cushing's.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

I agree something isn't adding up and I would absolutely NOT start lysodren. There is no rush to treat cushings but I think something else is going on also. Cush dogs don't have ALT numbers that high - they are normally just a bit elevated, its the ALK PHO numbers that are double digits. Also the lack of appetite would make loading a near impossibility and you could easily overdose her. Please don't start. Take the money you would have spent on the acth baseline read and spend it on an ultrasound done on a high resolution machine. Take a look at the organs.

If you can get us copy of blood results that would be helpful. Post anything above or below normal as well as the range for normal from that lab. That would help a great deal.

Thanks,
Kim

PS if the only test you did to diagnose cushing's is the low dose dex suppression test (LDDS) it is known for presenting false positives when non-adrenal illnesses are present. That's why you always perform multiple tests to confirm cushings. Too risky to start meds without knowing for sure it is cushings.

[Jennifer blume]

Bailey has had two ultrasounds, one in June and the second in February. Alt is the really high number, but she also has triple digits for ALK. We have been monitoring the ALT since September of 2011 as she had been on prednisone, then switched to metacam, then this fall to rimadryl. Her liver is enlarged, but not abnormally. I will know more on Wednesday when she has two cushings tests. I realize cushings is not seen as life threatening, but her discomfort with trying to move with the extra weight has me concerned, as it is really affecting her morale. I have tried to do liver disease food, but she refuses, also treating with denamarin, milk thistle and have stopped the NSAIDs. I will get a copy to post her results on Wednesday. Was just wondering about the picky eating in relation to cushings.

[Harley PoMMom]

Liver disease will cause a dog's appetite to decrease and will increase their drinking and urinating.

Is Bailey on any anti-nausea medication?

Since Bailey does have a liver issue, IMHO, all tests for Cushing's should NOT be done.

[frijole]

If you have copies of those ultrasounds it would be interesting to see the description of the adrenal glands. They can tell if its cushings or not sometimes by the size.

Trust me, the lack of appetite would be impossible with lysodren. The way it works is you give it til your dog shows a reduction in appetite or water intake. If she isn't eating you have no way of knowing if she is going low and it could cause an overdose. Also if she isn't eating I am not sure if she'd take the drug either.

Tell us more about the current symptoms (other than the high numbers) - what physical cushings symptoms are you seeing? Thank you. Kim

[molly muffin]

Wow, okay so if those numbers aren't typo, then definitely look into liver disease testing. Any cushings test will probably not give an accurate result and would be subject to false positives based upon these results.
Medicating for cushings is not recommended in the presence of liver disease. So that would need be ruled out prior to dealing with any thoughts of cushings.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Did Bailey's vet mention about doing a bile acid test to see how her liver is functioning?