potential cushing's (Emma - 10 y/o lab - diabetic)

[emma's mom]

I'm Karen
I happened onto this site after brushing my dog Emma this morning and filling a shopping bag full of her once beautiful yellow hair. She is a 10 year old lab and the love of my life. She was diagnosed with diabetes last October and I had a lot of difficulty regulating her on the insulin. I finally thought I had her regulated and 2 weeks ago, her sugar dropped after an afternoon of more exercise than normal and at 2:30 in the morning I awoke to her having a seizure from a drop in blood sugar to 36. She is very cooperative in the glucose testing so I am able to test her regularly. My vet initially told me that diabetes is sometimes an indicator of cushing's but we needed to regulate her sugar before we concerned ourselves with this.
I have read many posts on this site regarding the treatment and some of the recommended articles from this site.
We had a bit of a blizzard up here so everything is closed, including the vet. I am very concerned about putting her through the medications that are listed in many posts, especially since I can't be here during the day to monitor her.
Her symptoms are weakened hind end, the skull looking head, losing her fur on her body, fatigue and the diabetes. So, I'm pretty confident that it is cushing's disease. My question to you folks that have been dealing with this longer than I is, has anyone had any success with the holistic remedies I have seen online? I know it will not treat the cushing's, I'm just looking to manage her symptoms with the time I have left with her. I also found that it's recommended that a menu of meat, vegetables and berries may help as well.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Karen,

Welcome to you and Emma, so sorry for the reasons that brought you to us but so glad you found your way here.

We have a sister site that deals with canine diabetes, I strongly urge you to join there also. The friendly and knowledgeable people at the canine diabetes forum will be able to help you with Emma's diabetes. Here's a link: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

There are no holistic treatments for Cushing's disease. The two most rx'd drugs for Cushing's are Lysodren/Mitotane and Vetoryl/Trilostane. Although these drugs are very strong they are a God send to our pups with Cushing's so please do not fear them. Most times adverse reactions happen because of a vet's incompetence at following proper protocols. We will help you so please do not worry.

If you can get copies of all tests that were done on Emma and posts all abnornalities that are listed with the reference ranges and units of measurements, that would help us out a lot...e.g.ALT 150U/L (5-100)...Thanks!

Please do not hesitate to ask any and all questions as we will help in any way we can.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[frijole]

Karen, Welcome from me as well. The interesting thing is that you didn't mention the two symptoms we see most often - extreme appetite and excessive drinking/peeing. I'm talking never chewing food, just inhaling and spending all day in search of a lone kibble and buckets of water.

The first thing I would do is a blood panel just to see how things look. With cush dogs the liver enzymes are elevated. I would do that before any cushings tests.

Also do not feel rushed into anything - it is better to get a firm diagnosis. Are there any internal med specialists in your area? We have seen that when there are multiple diseases involved it is often helpful to have a specialist involved.

Glad you found us. So how much snow did you have up in Maine?

Kim

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome Karen.

First off I want to also encourage you to join our diabetes sister site http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/
Many of the members here who are dealing with both diabetes and cushings are members are both. They can help a lot with diet too.
As far as holistic treatments, I don't know of any having much luck with just going that route. Unfortunately the symptoms if it is cushings and not the diabetes or thyroid or a UTI causing some of the problems, are controlled by controlling the cortisol levels and to do that you are looking at either trilostane or the lysodren.
I wouldn't bother with that unless you know the diabetes is controlled and that it isn't something else going on.
We have all been through the uncertainty of trying to get a diagnose of this disease.
Can you post any testing results that you have had done, the high and low with ranges. That might help us to have an idea of what is going on.
Is her blood sugar controlled right now? Is she doing okay? Do you have an emergency vet hospital that you could get to if you needed to?
Is there anyone who could stay with her during the day if you did elect to treat? I know that is easier said that done. I'm trying to get a picture of the situation to know what the possibilities are.
Some of the others that have many years of knowledge surrounding cushings will be along to welcome you and to probably ask more questions. :)
I'm very glad that you found us, although I wouldn't wish cushings on any furbaby. It does help though to have that link to others going through the same thing.
This is like the mother lode of experience. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

:) I see that we were all typing at the same time! :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[milosmom]

welcome lori to this wonderful forum for our fur babies and i agree with sharlene , kim and lori that we all try to find the holistic answer for this disease,but unfortunately there really hasn't been any... that being said there are some great drugs out there for our pups depending if the cushings' is pituitary or adrenal.....you found the right place for answers to your questions,as well as,questions you should be asking your vet.we are all here watching your story as it unfolds here...patty(milo)meka xoxox

[emma's mom]

Thank you all. I guess I knew there is not really any hope in a holistic treatment, but I had to ask. The liver test is I guess where I'll start.
Regarding her diabetes, for now it is controlled. After her seizure, 2 weeks ago I reduced her insulin and did several curve tests, testing blood sugar every 2 hours. She is now pretty stable. I have to keep her a little high because she tends to drop about halfway through doses. Now she runs between 125 and 225 pretty regularly. She is 85lbs now and receives 20 units.
She does not have the excessive thirst and hunger. Don't get me wrong, she is a very spoiled Lad and has always gotten so many treats. It was quite the adjustment once the diabetes occurred. Now She has to eat only 2ce a day, she used to have lunch but she has adjusted. I also now dehydrate chicken breast to use as her treats in between meals.
So, she has the skull like head, weakened hind, several tumors ( i had them tested and they are ok) but the thing that happened this week is the hair loss. That's what drove me to start researching why a dog in the middle of a blizzard would be losing her hair so quickly. There is a change in the way it feels and looks. She has always had an unusually soft coat and now, it feels wiry and I notice dandruff looking specks. She is also much more tired. She has never really been a burst of energy, but I live on a lake. If it were not frozen right now, she wouldn't even want to swim, her absolute favorite thing in the world to do.
I live in a rural area in Maine, my vet is not a specialist but pretty good. I also have a neighbor from New Hampshire that has a house a few homes from me. He's semi-retired and specializes in endocrinology. He has been helpful but when I spoke to him yesterday, he agrees that it's probably cushings. I will try to get her into the vet on Monday to start testing.
My main concern is that I do not want her to suffer. I simply cannot let her go thru that. She has been to good a friend.

So we got 24 inches of Snow in our blizzard. I haven't seen that much snow in years all at once. Emma and her sister Gracie(3 year old black Lab) went to go outside yesterday morning and there was 3 feet of snow blocking the door. It's always fun to watch them tunnel around to try to find the "perfect" place to do there business in freshly fallen snow!

Thanks again and I will keep you updated. I also will find your sister site.

Karen and Emma

[molly muffin]

That is excellent that you have someone like your neighbor nearby and a pretty good vet too. That is really important when trying to figure out if it is or isn't cushings.

I'd also have the thryoid checked too, just because the same symptoms can mimic cushings. It sounds like you have her BG figured out pretty well. I know it's really scary though when they drop that low though.

I know what you mean about the snow. My dog is small and we had to make a path for her with the snowblower or she was refusing to go out at all. We didn't have this much snow all of last year. Last year we only fired up the snowblower once to give it a run of gas through the engine but never actually needed to use it. Wasn't enough at one time. This year, holy moly! LOL

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Hi Karen,

Emma's recent hair loss is of interest because skin/coat issues are symptoms that renowned endocrinologist, Dr. Mark Peterson, uses as a possible indicator of the presence of Cushing's in a diabetic dog. Both diseases share so many other symptoms that differentiation can be difficult. Here's a link to an article of his that you may find interesting:

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/01/q-diagnosing-cushings-disease-in-dogs.html

Is Emma's thyroid function normal? If not, that could instead be responsible for problems with her coat and can be easy to treat. However, hypothyroidism can either be a primary problem in its own right or secondary to another issue such as Cushing's. The first step in that diagnostic process would be to check her T4 level in a general blood panel. If the T4 is low, then a more thorough thyroid panel can be performed.

If you do proceed with Cushing's testing, the ACTH would probably be preferable to the LDDS because the ACTH is less likely to be skewed by Emma's diabetes.

Definitely let us know how things proceed.

Marianne

[SoggyDoggy]

Hi Karen and Emma!

Although I can offer no advice for you at this point in time (what little I have learnt so far has already been mentioned) I just wanted to stop in and welcome you aboard. Sorry to hear that poor Emma is going through it right now, it truly sucks that these lights in our lives have to suffer through anything, let alone diabetes and potentially cushiness. She is a lucky girl to have you there.

Anyhow, one thing about this place that is so great, you can ask absolutely anything here and still get a reasonable answer - no one judges for what you do and don't do for your loved ones and as you get to know us, you'll find us all to be a pretty wacky bunch. So Welcome, ask away and good luck! :):)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi and welcome. My Jenny also has diabetes and Cushings. I screwed up and didn't see a specialist and got her cortisol too low with Lysodren treatment. we are entering our second year with both diseases and she still feels pretty good.

congrats on getting Emma's blood sugar under control. As Jenny's cortisol levels dropped her insulin needs dropped also.

I would definitely encourage the ACTH and preferably a specialist to help you treat her cushings. Despite all of the ups and downs we've had Jenny is a happy playful dog. there is hope! Judi

[emma's mom]

I definitely will check the liver and thyroid. That seems to be the easiest place to start. You are all so helpful, I'm glad I found you. And if you are wacky, then it appears I will fit in just fine!
Just filled another grocery bag of fur and every surface in my house is now yellow, especially the couch. So if any of you are familiar with the size of a central vac container, I am now off to fill the entire thing with fur!:eek:

Thank you!

[molly muffin]

WOW! That is an amazing amount of fur loss in a very short time. I have a central vac so I know how much you are talking about!! Could this have been triggered by the diabetic issue Emma experienced a couple weeks ago? I'm seriously wondering considering how fast it seems to have come on.

Did you join up with the k9diabetes site? They would definitely be able to give some input on that idea.

Wacky is good! It even keeps us sane sometimes :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[emma's mom]

Keep your fingers crossed for us. Emma and I go to the vet tomorrow for the first tests!

[addy]

We'll keep everything crossed until you and Emma get back. I havent had a chance to say hi and welcome. Boy, that's a lot of hair to lose. Hope you get some answers today!

[Harley PoMMom]

Wishing you and Emma the best of luck with your vet visit, and looking forward to the results.

[molly muffin]

Hey there :) I've been away and was wondering what is going on now with Emma? Have any of the test results come back? What did the vet have to say? Curious minds want to know. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin