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nmcrawf
01-17-2013, 12:02 AM
I have read the forums on this site for the past several months, ever since my wacky beagle, Roxy, was diagnosed with Cushing’s. We are now at a point where I would love your advice and opinions about the path of care that she is receiving.

Roxy is an 11-year-old beagle who weighs approximately 24 pounds. She developed what appeared to be anxiety a couple of years ago. The symptoms began gradually after the passing of our 15-year-old black lab, Jamie; the gradual “escape” of our three kids as they left for college; then our pilgrimage into becoming foster parents to many shelter dogs; finally adopting a 7-month-old mixed breed dog into our family. We felt like Roxy had lost a lot of the people/animals that she loved, so we assumed that this caused her anxiety. She began to have difficulty sleeping at night, and she kept us awake nightly for at least two years. We were completely exhausted and frustrated. She panted non-stop and howled and cried all night long. She couldn’t sleep in our room because her snoring became terrible. Our vet treated her for anxiety with Clomipramine, but it didn’t work. They also tried Valium 10 mg twice a day, but the symptoms escalated. We tried a Thundershirt, DAP spray, and lavender candles, but nothing worked. Eventually, she developed an extreme food drive, increased thirst, increased urination, and constant panting. The vet did blood work in August of 2012 which showed a high amylase (2397), high CK (287), slightly high cholesterol (363), elevated B/C ratio (32.5), and elevated bicarb (28) which the doctor thinks is related to the constant panting. He then performed a dexamethasone challenge which showed her baseline cortisol = 183 (15-110), cortisol low dose dex 4h = 85 (0-30), cortisol low dose dex 8h = 235 (0-30). The results suggested pituitary-dependent hyperadrenocorticism. She was started on Vetoryl 60 mg daily.

ACTH stimulation test after four weeks showed pre-ACTH = 4.1, post-ACTH = 4.9. Her symptoms were under control at that point. She was sleeping through the night, and her increased urination and thirst were better. The food obsession was a little bit better. Six weeks later, the symptoms returned, although she was still able to sleep through the night without trouble. A repeat ACTH stimulation test showed pre-ACTH = 10.2, post was 8.9. Her Vetoryl was increased to 90 mg daily. That was two months ago, and her symptoms have not improved. Any time she is awake, she forages for food, even when there is no food available. She snorts like a pig and covers the entire kitchen, bathrooms, family room, etc., searching for something to eat. She is able to open the door where we keep our kitchen trash, even with a baby-proof lock in place. We feed her twice a day, and she cries frantically if she hears me approach the food storage container. When she sleeps, she snores so loud that we have to turn up the TV to hear. She wants to go outside every 15 minutes. I don’t know if she truly has to urinate, or if she wants to be outside so she can eat her own “poop”. I swear she’s that hungry. She also has a strange symptom that started when we increased her dosage. If she gets excited (if someone rings the doorbell or one of my kids comes home to visit), she rushes towards them, stops, then draws up her right leg and lays down on the ground. She lays there and gives that typical beagle greeting--the howling/barking/crying sound that a lot of beagles have. It doesn't seem like she is in pain at that time, but that right leg contracts up and she immediately lays down.

Repeat blood work done last week (seven weeks after the dosage change) was within normal limits. I forgot to ask the vet to give me the numbers, but I will get them. He consulted with an internal medicine vet, and she suggested I give the Vetoryl twice a day (60 mg in the a.m., 30 mg in the p.m.). I have started the Valium again, 10 mg once a day. Today was her first day of the split dosage, and she appeared anxious the entire day (until now—she is snoring next to me). She had one episode of vomiting tonight. The emesis had a bit of bright red blood in it.

Our plan is to continue this dosage for the next two weeks, then we’ll talk with the vet and decide whether to change medications. I wondered if anyone has any suggestions of what else we can try. We never established why Roxy had the high amylase, although I searched online and read that Cushing’s dogs have an increased incidence of pancreatitis. We haven’t rechecked the amylase since we started treatment, so it may have resolved by now. I read online tonight that if you decide to give the Vetoryl twice daily, the dosage should be increased by 33-50%, then split into two doses. Has anyone else heard that? I thought I would call the vet tomorrow to ask him. Thank you all so much for any advice you have!

frijole
01-17-2013, 12:18 AM
I am going to let someone that actually has used twice daily dosing respond to your question re dosing just to be safe.

That said - you said your dog vomited and there was blood. I wouldn't mess with this. Vomit is a sign of overdose. Blood is never good. Since the dose wasn't increased overdose probably isn't at play here but I am concerned about the blood. I do not know but perhaps the valium and trilostane are not interacting well?

I would call the vet to report the blood in the vomit. Sorry I wasn't more help! Kim

nmcrawf
01-17-2013, 12:31 AM
I forgot a couple other frequent symptoms (side effects?) that Roxy has! Any time that she is sleeping, she is drooling. When she wakes up, there is a wet spot on the couch or chair, right where her mouth was. And sometimes when she's awake, she makes a funny movement and sound with her mouth. It's hard to describe it, but it's kind of like something is stuck in her mouth and she's trying to get it out. It goes on for 15 seconds or so, then she stops. I have had the vet check her teeth several times, but he doesn't see anything. Is this any type of side effect?

As far as the blood, I really appreciate your concern. I will call the vet in the morning. She ate her regular dinner tonight and is snoring loudly next to me right now! :o She has been on the Valium and Vetoryl together in the past, but I don't really think the Valium is helping. I'm just desperate to make her comfortable!

frijole
01-17-2013, 12:44 AM
:D Understand you wanting to give her comfort. I am sort of anti valium because my mom got hooked on sleeping pills and took her forever to wean herself.. so an alternative is you haven't tried it is melatonin - all natural and not really a drug. You can buy at health food store, Walmart etc. Give a 3 mg pill an hour before bed time. I used on both of my dogs and it just chilled them out and they slept. Not like a drug induced thing either. I wouldn't mix it with valium though.

Re the tooth sucking thing... never heard of that so not a cushing's thing. Sorry.

Hang in there and glad you finally posted!! Welcome. Kim

SoggyDoggy
01-17-2013, 02:05 AM
Hi, I can suggest some things on two points here, the tooth sucking and the twice daily dosing.

Re the tooth sucking. Not sure if it is the same cause or not, but both my boys do that occasionally. It is usually just something caught in their mouth, like we sometimes get hair in our mouths (if you have long hair especially), so can dogs. Be it a bit of fluff, grass etc, that is their way of moving it along. (same action as when they try to spit a pill out :rolleyes:) As I said, I don't know if that is what the cause is for Roxy, but it may be something to check against. When it happens, consider where she is, what she's been doing and where she's been doing it. There might be a clue in that, something to think about anyway.

Ok, the twice daily dosing. My boy Fraser is now on twice daily. With regards to the strength, there have been some studies recently that suggest that twice daily may actually require less of a dose, rather than an increase and split. have a read.... http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4442

I do realise the Dechra information suggests increasing the dose, however I think this information is now couple of years old, where as the study listed above is by the top endocrinologist and was written up in 2011. In saying this however, all dogs react differently, and all we can do is trial and error until we hit the right balance. Where that will be for Roxy, who knows at this stage. (Fraser is on 10mg twice daily. Our specialist said that, or 30mg once daily.)

I wouldn't however change anything regarding dosage until you have spoken to your vet about the vomit, and particularly the blood in it. That sounds nasty! I am glad she has eaten her dinner though. :) Hopefully you get through an uneventful night and she doesn't keep the house awake with her snoring (strangely though, you miss it when it stops - my boy Fraser used to snore too. Now that his dose is right, he doesn't any more. Almost disconcerting :p)

Anyway, good luck and let us know how things progress. I am sure others will comment further too. As you would know, there is a lot of helpful and well informed folks here, they sure have helped me along!

Good luck!

Naomi.

mytil
01-17-2013, 08:40 AM
Hi Naomi,

I am very sorry your Roxy is having all these troubles - poor girl.

I have just a few secs, but wanted to ask if you have had her checked for any thyroid troubles.

I am a bit concerned about the blood in the vomit - having bits of bright red in it means it could be coming from her throat, esophagus or being caused by a stomach ulcer as blood turns the color of black as it starts to pass from the stomach to the intestines (looks like coffee grounds).

It could be just something she ate and it irritated her so she got rid of it.

How are her stools?

Another thing you may want to discuss with your vet is Canine Cognitive Dysfunction? Some of the symptoms you mentioned are similar to this condition: (restlessness, barking or whining excessively, increased panting, different sleep patterns - especially at night and just general confusion or anxiety)

At times does she seem to get lost in corners or seem very confused?

I have never heard of that - when you split the dose it needs to be increased by 33 - 50% - that may end of being too much for her.

Terry

nmcrawf
01-17-2013, 01:11 PM
Thanks for all the ideas! We had a sleepless night (for the first time in months), and she is back to constant panting today. I took some time this morning to read the insert from the Vetoryl, and it also mentioned adding 30 mg to her dosage, then splitting it. I called her vet, and he said the Internal Med Doc he talked to mentioned increasing the dose if we were splitting it, so I'm starting that today. As far as the bright red blood, he was not concerned. There was a minimal amount, and he said that can often result from breaking a blood vessel when she vomited. I'm a cardiac nurse, and we aren't as concerned with bright red blood as we are with dark, coffee-ground colored blood. We'll definitely continue to watch her for any more vomiting, but she's eating great. Her stools look normal, also--no change in color.

As far as the cognitive disorder, I have definitely thought about that, and the vet mentioned it when we first started dealing with the anxiety. I don't see her acting confused or lost, but I will watch for any signs. Is there any treatment for that? I feel like we were on the right track with treatment since she began sleeping beautifully after we started the Vetoryl. I'm hoping this is just a temporary bump in the road. Again, thanks for all the advice. It helps to talk with people who have more experience with this. Nancy

molly muffin
01-17-2013, 07:31 PM
Hello, I just wanted to pop in and welcome you and Roxy to the forum.

That is interesting about the increase in dosage when splitting as I don't think that any of our pups on here have increased, usually the dosage is split and adjusted as needed up or down after the next stim test.

I'm glad you had a restful night. That is really good, since it's so hard when you are up all night and then still have to function during the day.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin