my beagle has cushings - (Louis) 10 y/o

[louiskoster]

Hi,
a couple of weeks ago I found out that Louis has cushings. He's had diabetes insipidus (sp?) for about a year now and was doing really good on his meds. I then noticed a few weeks ago that he was peeing more and drinking more. also that he wanted to eat all the time, I blamed that on I was trying to move him over to a senior food (Merrick). my vet said to trry and increase his meds which I did but it didn't help. they checked his urine and decided he needed to come in for testing. So I dropped him off on a frday for the day. His pre-cortisol level was 7.1; his 4 hour cortisol was 2.7 and his 8 hour was 2.8. My vet said he has pituitary dependent cushings. his coat is still really nice and shinny and his tummy is pretty flat well except for a few extra pounds:rolleyes: but once my hip is better he'll be hitting the road walking:) I was thinking of trying Anipryl first because the other meds really scare me. I'm still freaking over this, he had such a bad year last year with lots of health isssues and I wanted him to have a healthy year:( Another thing is he takes prozac, he was a mess when I got him 9 years ago and (he's 10 now) 5 homes in a year and lots of abuse his first year messed him up really bad. Well I now have to get him off the prozac to be on the meds and he has to be clear of it for 5 weeks for it to be out of his system so it will be a little while before he can take anything. I look forward to hearing from everyone.
Kathy and Louis

[StarDeb55]

I would like to welcome both you & Louis to our forum. I'm certainly sorry to hear that Louis is facing a Cushing's diagnosis, but I'm very glad you found us.

The results you have posted are for the LDDS test which does, indeed, indicate PDH. The LDDS is considered to be the "gold standard" for Cushing's diagnostic testing, but it has one huge drawback. The test can generate a false positive in the presence of non-adrenal illness, & with Louis having DI this has to be considered. This is why it's crucial that any positive LDDS be confirmed by a second test such as an abdominal ultrasound, high dose dex, or ACTH. The abdominal US is a wise investment of $$$ as not only do you get a look at the adrenal glands, but all of Louis' internal organs, so you can get a better idea of his overall health. Cushing's is a very slowly progressing disease, so it's best to take your time, make sure you have a confirmed diagnosis, & become educated about the disease. The absolutely best thing you can do for Louis is become a knowledgeable, educated owner as you are his only voice & advocate. Along those lines, please take a look at our resources section where you will find a huge number of links that will take you to about any information you want or need to know about Cushing's & it's treatment.

When it comes to using Anipryl or sellegine, which is the generic name, this drug is really not one of the 2 main drugs used to treat as it really is ineffective in lowering the cortisol levels in a pup's system. I will be posting a link from our resources section that will give you specific information about the ineffectiveness of Anipryl. There is really nothing to fear from either of the 2 main drugs, lysodren or trilostane, as long as you have a Cushing's savy vet who is following standard treatment protocols for either drug, & you learn what to expect from either drug. Pups get into trouble when a vet is not knowledgeable about the proper protocols for either drug, starts "flying by the seat of their pants", & the pup pays the price. My first Cushpup, Barkley, was treated quite successfully for almost 8 years with lysodren, before he crossed the bridge at 15. Harley, my 2nd boy, was diagnosed a little over a year ago, is being treated with lysodren, & is doing well.

I would also encourage you to get copies of all Louis test results to keep as you never know when they might come in handy, especially if you end up at a strange vet. Most members do keep files on their pups at home. Members will be asking you a lot of questions, but that just helps us to learn about Louis, so we can give you the most appropriate feedback for his situation.

We are here to help in anyway we can. Please keep us posted.

Debbie

Oops, forgot the link!

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224

[BestBuddy]

Hi Kathy and welcome to you and Louis.
Has your vet suggested how he wants to treat the cushings?
I think of Lysodren and Trilostane as powerful drugs and not dangerous ones. A vet who knows the dosing and treatment regimes with these drugs is a good start.
Jenny

[gpgscott]

Welcome Kathy and Louis,

I see you have already posted pictures, what a handsome boy he is.

Debbie has started you off, I just want to voice my oposition to anipryl. We have a few members who report some relief of symptoms but there is no clinical medical evidence to support these claims. With Louis being in good health despite this positive LDDS I would have more diagnostics.

Let's hear from others.

Thanks for joining, I am sure there is a treatment which will help Louis.

Scott

[frijole]

You've gotten great advice from some experienced people. I'll just add my greeting to theirs and say how glad I am you found us. My dog has been using lysodren for almost 3 yrs now and she is over 15 now. I too was afraid at first but it really isn't as difficult as you think.

Like Debbie mentioned it is important that your vet be experienced in treating the disease and that you get up to speed since you are your dog's voice in this. You are off to a great start by finding us. Read, ask questions and know you aren't alone. We'll help as best we can.

Kim

[bkdice]

Kathy - Glad you and Louis made it to the group! :cool:

- Bettina (Niko's mom)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Kathy and welcome to you and Louis! :)

I am a supporter of Anipryl as my Squirt was on it for about 7 mos. with good results. BUT, her cush signs were few and the ones she did have were mild, she has no other health condition and was on no other meds, and her appetite was strong with no problems getting her to eat, ever. She's always been a real piggy! :p

Anipryl works differently from Trilo or Lyso. Anipryl increases the release of dopamine, which inhibits the release of ACTH. ACTH is the hormone that tells the adrenal to release cortiol. It works only in pituitary dependent pups, those with PDH, and only in 25% or less of those pups. Most pups on Anipryl will have to move to one of the other meds in time - anywhere from 60 days to several months.

It should not be used in pups that have issues with inappetence as Anipryl can cause anorexia, especially over the long term. I'm not sure that it can be used in conjunction with the Prozac, either...something we need to verify to be sure. Another concern I have with Louis using it is this - it metabolizes into amphetamine/methamphetamine which could aggravate his anxiety. (This is also the property that causes the anorexia.)

Anipryl is used most often for canine cognitive issues and is usually quite effective in that area.

So, just like Trilo, Lyso, Keto or any other approach you consider, Anipryl has it's draw backs, too. What treatment is best depends on the pup only. These meds all have their good points and their bad points, all are just as risky if not used according to protocol, that includes teaching the parent things to look for that indicate a problem. But now you have us on your side and we can help, too! ;)

The single most important thing you can do for Louie is educate yourself on the condition. To help you get started there will be a list of links following this post. Please ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand. Also, be sure to check out the Resources section where you will find great info on many topics connected to Cushing's. Read the stories posted here about others who are dealing with this condition and how they are approaching it. Learn from their questions and experiences, too.

I'm really glad that you found us and hope to learn more about you and Louie as time passes.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

:eek::eek: the links :D:D

Kate Connick*
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

PowerPoint Presentation
http://talkoftheinternet.com/etvma1/hac-3-13-07.ppt

Long Beach Animal Hospital*
http://www.lbah.com/canine/cushings.htm

Drs. Foster and Smith*
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2097&aid=416

Newman Veterinary*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushingDiag.html

Cushing’s signs and pics*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushSignFrame.html

BMD Health Library*
http://www.bestbeau.ca/bmd_health_links_4.htm
(scroll down to see Endocrine Diseases)

Mar Vista Animal Medical Center*
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/cushing_s_disease.html

Vetstream*
http://www.vetstreamcanis.com/ACI/February08/VMD2/FactSheet052.asp


Anipryl info*

http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.aspx?drug=AR&country=US&lang=EN&species=CN

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_anipryl.html

http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/diseasesall/a/aniprylseniors.htm

http://www.lbah.com/anipryl.htm

http://www.selegiline.com/

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Selegiline-prod10305-10305.html

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/selegiline-hcl-anipryl/page1.aspx

http://www.drugs.com/vet/anipryl-5-mg-can.html

[louiskoster]

thanks everyone. I was planning on getting an ultrasound. my vet said she can get that person in anytime to do it. after the holiday I plan on calling to see if it can be done friday next week (I took a vacation day)if not I'll try and take another vacation day. I want what is best for Louie and I feel I'm on the right start getting in this group and driving my vet nuts with e-mails:D I have been keeping copies of everything I get! He had a lot of things happen last year and trust me he has a huge file at home! I kind of keep everyhing from notes to printouts. Louie's vet said not matter what it takes she'll make sure he gets what ever I want and she said if it's something she doesn't know she will bring in a vet that does. she also mentioned that it's sad to say but most around where I am don't treat it, thinking it's a bad dog and when they mention a sickness or anything the dog gets put down. She knows how much my pets mean to me so I feel I have a good vet. I still have a lot to read and think about. my computer at home has been giving me some problems but hopefully I can spend this weekend looking at all the links you posted and print out and read!! again thanks for being there for me. I love Louie tons and it breaks my heart that he's not well:(

[StarDeb55]

When it comes to the abdominal US, it needs to be done on a high resolution machine, not all GP vets have such equipment.

Debbie

[frijole]

Kathy,

I am glad you found us and don't worry we are here to help. If your pc is slow perhaps a local library will have one you can use. It is obvious you love Louis and you are ahead of the game by finding us, keeping such good records and your willingness to learn and ask questions.

Please try not to worry too much. Cushings can be treated and your dog can lead a normal life. You just have to make sure it is cushings first.

Hang in there and give your beagle pal a big hug.
Kim

[AlisonandMia]

I was planning on getting an ultrasound. my vet said she can get that person in anytime to do it.

I wonder if your vet is referring to someone who has a portable ultrasound machine. Unfortunately portable machines and the ones that most GP vets have in their offices are not good enough (don't have the resolution) that is required to have a good look at a dog's adrenal glands.

Many vets refer the patient out to either a specialist clinic or a university vet clinic for the ultrasound as those types of clinic do have the necessary equipment - and expertise at interpreting the the images (that's very important too) - that is necessary for this type of scan.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Alison

[louiskoster]

it is a good one, it will be a special person that will come in and do it. Other vet offices say he is the best in the area for ultra sounds, we checked!! thanks

[maggiebeagle]

Welcome to another person owned by a beagle. My Maggie was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago. Don't worry, you'll be a cushings expert in no time :D.
Virginia and Maggie

[David Bruyette]

Hi,

As the developer of Anipryl (selegiline) for the treatment of Cushings disease I think we should clear up a few points. First, like trilostane it is approved by the FDA to treat Cushings in dogs. Lysodren is not. Anipryl was shown to be safe and effective and has been used in thousands of dogs. As a MAO-B inhibitor it works by raising dopamine levels which in turn can lower or modulate ACTH release. Efficacy is lower (40%) than with trilostane or op-DDD Lysodren (70-80%) but side effects are far fewer. Anipryl can be an excellent option for those pet owners unwilling or unable to perform monitoring tests such as ACTH stimulation tests and electrolyte monitoring. It only works for PDH primarily when the tumor is in the pars intermedia. It is metabolized to l-desmethylselegiline and l-amphetamine. The l-isomers have no biologic activity in dogs unlike the d-isomers and this is a common misconception.

Dave Bruyette DVM DACVIM

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Doc!

Welcome aboard! :)

Thanks for the clarification on Anipryl, too! We can never learn too much about this condition or it's treatment options.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

(sorry for hijacking the thread here...:o )

[gpgscott]

Kathy, please allow me a brief hijack of your thread also.

Thanks for posting Dr. The bit about the difference in the l-isomers as opposed to the d-isomers I think was largely unknown by this group, it was unknown to me, this seems to be an important distinction.

I wonder if there are studies concerning the location of pit tumors breaking the population into statistical groups.

I know everyone facing the diagnosis would prefer the most benign treatment possible.

Thanks for posting. Scott


It only works for PDH primarily when the tumor is in the pars intermedia. It is metabolized to l-desmethylselegiline and l-amphetamine. The l-isomers have no biologic activity in dogs unlike the d-isomers and this is a common misconception.

Dave Bruyette DVM DACVIM

[Bagel's Mom]

Hi Kathy and Louis!!

My 9 yr old beagle/Basset has been on Lysodren for three months now and is doing fine. I have learned so much here from these folks and you will too! I hated the thoughts of giving her Lysodren when I read about it...but thanks to these folks and my gut feelings, I have her dosage stretched out several days which really made a difference... Counting her loading phase ( read all about that here too) she has done well since April on her maintenance phase... WELCOME. I am sorta partial to beagles!! My last one lived to be 18!
Sande

[louiskoster]

well Louie will have his ultrasound Friday, needs to be there about 8:30. I was told this vet has the right equipment so I'm feeling pretty good about it. Nervous too but glad to have it done right away. He's such a lumpy guy I hope that doesn't cause a problem:) thanks everyone! I'm glad I won't be alone in this.

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Hi Kathy,

Just stopped by to see how you and Louie are doing. Glad you were able to get the ultrasound scheduled for Friday. You're right....you and Louie are not alone!

Will be watching for your update. Give Louie some extra scritchies from "Louise". :D

Louise & Munchie

[frijole]

Good luck! Payback is you have to keep us posted... we are "worriers". :p but we are glad to help. Kim

[gpgscott]

Hi Kathy,

We all are looking forward to the report from the U/S

Scott

Best to you both.

[louiskoster]

wellLouis had his utrasound and was really good for the test! Well his Liver was a little plumper as the vet said. his adrenal (sp?) were both mildly larger both were the same size. A small amount of fat around his speen, kidneys looked good and his prostrate was a little larger than normal. So that will be something else I have to watch out for. I guess if he's straining to pee or not being able to pee then something is going on. so far that is not an issue.

[gpgscott]

Kathy,

If he is not nuetered, I think he should be.

Otherwise the U/S is consistant with pituitary Cushing's to my opinion.

Scott

[louiskoster]

oh he has been fixed before I got him. his paperwork said he was at 6 months.