Food recommendations (11 y/o Golden) Lysodren

[fdomurath]

Hi All, My golden, Carlee 11 Y O female has been on Lysodren (1000 mg 3 X a week) for several months. I have seen posts on other sites recommending the elimination of grains and starches from diet. She is now eating Blue Buffalo Basic (salmon). Any recommendations?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and your baby, :)

Yes, I have some advice - unless you baby is having problems with the Blue Buffalo, I wouldn't change a thing. That is a good higher quality feed and there is no reason to change unless it is causing a problem. This "no grains / carbs" stuff is a fad and not a very good one. Canines do not require carbs but the carbs provide much needed energy so unless there is an allergy issue or other problem, there is no logical reason to remove the carbs. Cats will thrive on an all meat diet - most dogs will simply survive, not thrive. ;)

***EDITED TO ADD ***

The ideal diet for a cush pup is moderate protein and low fat.

[fdomurath]

Thank you so much for the quick (and logical) response. Makes me feel a lot better about what we are feeding Carlee (Blue Buffalo Basic Salmon). Frank

[Boriss McCall]

I use the blue buffalo too.. So far so good! :)

[molly muffin]

I've heard Excellent things about Blue Buffalo and Molly gets their yogurt banana treats.

Sharlene

[lulusmom]

Pet food is a hotly debated subject and we all have our own opinons, based on our own experiences. Choosing the right food for our dogs is a personal thing and it should be based on our own research as well as the health challenges our dogs may present. My personal experience is contrary to what Leslie's have been and I don't share her feelings about carbohydrates in general. My dogs thrived and became much healthier. with less allergies and digestive issues on a grainless diet.

My dogs had a lot of problems on kibble with corn, wheat and soy. After their ex gp vet recommended that I take them off of kibble, I decided to go with a commercially prepared raw diet which was totally grain free. Raw vs cooked is also greatly debated and no matter what side you are on, you'll never win the argument. :D

I watched an amazing transformation in all four of my dogs. All dropped to a healthier weight, all became much more active, they pooped half as much, poop was a lot less smelly and because the poop is firmer, the anal glands were never a problem again. My Maltese boy, Buster, had chronic colitis and before going grainless he was at the vets at least every 90 days in crisis. We have had no bloody, mucuosy colitis poops and horrific gas attacks in the last five years. Before going grainless any one of my dogs could break wind and clear a room in 10 seconds flat. That alone was worth the change. :D

We've had numerous rescues in our home and most have had soft stool or diarrhea due to the crappy grain filled food they feed them at the shelter. 99% of the time, their stool is firmed up within a day on grain free food. I am a rescuer/foster mom and the only dogs I pull are seniors and/or special medical needs so diet is very important in getting them on the road to recovery. Corn, wheat and soy are simply not a part of our treatment regimine.

I've included a few links below that you might enjoy. You might even come to a decision as to whether a dog is a carnivore or omnivore. No matter what you decide, you'll never win that argument either. :D For what it's worth, I think Blue Basic Salmon is a good choice.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/
http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_contrasting_grain_based_and_meat_based_diet s

Glynda

P.S. After the pancreatitis episode, I switched my dogs to Perfect Pets' Boomer's Blend, which is lower in fat than the rawfood diet. They love it and have done very well on it.

[kaibosmom]

This thread is definitely up my alley these days! I'm looking for all that I can regarding food for Kaibo. I'll check those links out. Since Kaibo also has pancreatitis I will look into that food you just listed as well. I'm not sure I have ever heard of that brand here in Canada. And you are right, this is a question with no right answer I believe. Everyone has their opinions and experience with what works for them. But, knowledge is power so the more info we can get the better ;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Folks, bear in mind that carbs and grains are not always found in the same food sources. You may find that grain-free feed actually has carbs. ;) Carbs are found in sweet potatoes, carrots, green beans, white potatoes, legumes, other veggies and fruits - none of which are grains. That important nutrient, fiber, is also found in such food sources. Here is a link about resistant starches that is interesting -

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/11/2032.full

Couple on the benefits of fiber -

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dog-food-fiber-part-1/
http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=6

One on carbs -

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_10/features/Carbohydrate-Intake-For-Dogs_20103-1.html

Two of mine have been on a grain-free kibble for over a year - one has now developed anal gland problems. Is there a connection? Don't know but I intend to find out! :);)

I am not now nor have I ever been a proponent of raw meat feeding for dogs in any form. I no more believe that canines come from lupines that I believe I come from an ape. ;) That's not to say some dogs don't thrive on such feed - it simply says that I personally do not recommend it to anyone nor will I feed it to any of my own - UNLESS that is the last resort. (Yet I love Sushi and eat my beef basically raw. :rolleyes::p)

I can post links that support my position on this and others can post links that support the opposing position...alllll day long. :D The bottom line is this - feed your dog what works best for THEM regardless of what someone else may have to say about it. Each of these little guys is a unique biological system which means there is no one correct food or food source that works best for all of them.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Boy, I can sure throw in an example of "Who-da thunk???" when it comes to food and my Peg. I was trying to be a good mom by feeding her the best quality, moderate-to-high protein, grain-free kibble I could find. However, what I didn't realize at the time was that many of the quality grain-free kibbles are also relatively high in fat. After a couple of acute pancreatitis attacks, we shifted to a lowfat, high-carb food with rice as the primary ingredient. The really good news is no more pancreatitis. But the unexpected side benefit is that her poops are now the best ever. They were always kinda mooshy on the higher-protein, grain-free food. Now, with a large amount of rice added in, she's doing great. So go figure! Just goes to show that our pups are reading from a whole library of different books. :p

Marianne

[lulusmom]

In case member, fdomurath, thinks we may have forgotten all about Carlee in our debate over dog food, please know that Carlee is very important to us and we would love to hear more about her. Can you tell us which form of cushing's she has? What were her symptoms and have they resolved with Lysodren treatment? What were the results of her last acth stimulation test? Does she have any concurrent medical conditions and taking any other medication?

Now back to dog food. :D I believe dogs aren't much different than people in that not all dogs do well on the same diet. My dogs are a living testament to that. I have been unable to find any scientific studies proving the benefits of raw food diets so all I have to go on is the success I had with my own dogs, many, many special needs rescues of all ages and the many healthy and beautiful, show quality Cavalier King Charles Spaniels owned by my friend. It was she who convinced me to try raw.

I have always been as careful with raw dog food as I am with the raw meat I prepare for us and always thaw in the refrigerator over night. The only study I've read warning of salmonella and other bacteria in raw food thawed the food 8 to 10 hours at room temperature. I personally would throw away any meat for dogs or humans that had been thawing for that long at room temperature. That same study also analyzed smaller samplings of cooked canned and kibble, which also yielded salmonella and certain bacteria.....so what's a person to do and who are you to believe? Go with your gut but more importantly, go with your dog's gut.

If any of our members is aware of any credible studies that have been done showing that raw food is more likely to place a dog at much greater risk of illness than commercial cooked canned or kibble, please post the link(s). The FDA developed a site a few years ago called PETNet which has a database of pet food related incidents by state but I was bummed to find out that getting a listing of veterinary incidences by state and manufacturer is restricted to federal and state employees. :mad:

As to whether dogs have evolved from wolves, based on my own research of the matter, I personally believe they are related. Robert K. Wayne is the world's leading authority on population conservations, genetics and evolution of canids (foxes, wolves, jackals, dingoes, coyotes and domestic breeds). His research, as well as that of other premier experts at UCLA, shows that wolves have the closest genetic link to dogs. I've been unable to find any credible scientific evidence from other experts who disagree with Dr. Wayne. If anybody has knowledge of studies that prove otherwise, please post the link here.

Robert K Wayne Bio
http://www.ucalgary.ca/wolfbook/wayne.htm

Dogs likely originated in the Middle East, new genetic data indicate
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/dogs-likely-originated-in-the-155101.aspx

[labblab]

Regarding raw diets, I am not personally advocating one way or the other. But this past summer of 2012, both the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) and also the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) published policy statements discouraging the feeding of raw or uncooked animal protein to dogs and cats. Since I don't feed raw meat myself, I have not ventured into the associated research studies. But for anybody who's more interested in assessing the research for themselves, here are links to the policy statements and the study citations upon which the policy statements were based:

Here is the AVMA policy itself:

https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pages/Raw-or-Undercooked-Animal-Source-Protein-in-Cat-and-Dog-Diets.aspx

And here is an extensive set of related "FAQs":

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

Here is the The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) policy statement:

https://www.aahanet.org/Library/Raw_Food_Diet.aspx

In addition to posing a risk to the animals themselves, here's a paragraph from the AAHA policy statement that summarizes the risk to humans that they believe to be associated with raw feeding (with the risk being greatest for young children, older adults, or anyone with a compromised immune system):


Homemade raw food diets are unsafe because retail meats for human consumption can be contaminated with pathogens. Studies that have been done on both commercially available and homemade raw protein diets have found a high percentage (30–50%) of them contaminated with pathogenic organisms, and up to 30% of the dogs fed such diets may shed pathogenic organisms in their stool. Many of the pathogens found in raw protein diets can be transmitted to the human population by contact with the food itself, pet or environmental surfaces. A disturbing number of these organisms have also been shown to be resistant to multiple antimicrobials.

Raw protein diets are now demonstrated to be a health risk for several groups, including:
•The pets consuming the diet
•Other animals in contact with these pets or their feces
•Human family members
•The public

FWIW, from skimming through the AVMA "FAQs" section, they acknowledge the potential for contamination that also exists with commercially processed kibble/canned food. However, whether or not there are yet studies that document the relative risk, I'd guess it's fair to say that exposure to pathogens can be a likely consequence when feeding raw meat. [Edited to add: see my reply below regarding contamination risks associated with commercial dry food]

[kaibosmom]

Marianne...I'm curious what food are you using?

[labblab]

I am feeding Peg (my non-Cushpup with history of pancreatits) California Natural Lowfat Rice and Chicken dry kibble. I selected this food from the list contained in this very helpful article re: healthy diets for dogs who require reduced levels of nutritional fat.

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjlowfatdiets.html

As you'll see from this article, not all dogs who have suffered from pancreatitis require lowfat diets on a longterm basis. And extremely lowfat diets are associated with issues of their own. But this lowfat food has worked very well for Peg -- she seems healthy and happy -- so I've seen no reason to switch. I do worry that, on a longterm basis, there may not be as high a protein level in this food as I might wish. So if she remains on it, I may end up supplementing with some homecooked lean protein such as chicken breast.

My other Lab, Luna, has no known GI health issues (knock on my wooden head!!!!), and I am feeding her Acana Wild Prairie dry kibble. It is a moderate-protein, grain-free food and she is doing beautifully on it. But it has a higher fat content than I feel comfortable feeding Peg, since it was this type of formula that Peg was eating when she suffered her pancreatitis attacks.

Marianne

[labblab]

And to give equal time to the risks of salmonella associated with processed food and treats, I just found a link to another article by the AVMA that was also updated last summer:

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Dry-Pet-Foods-and-Salmonella-FAQs.aspx

As I was expecting, though, even though all the recent recalls make it clear that contamination issues exist with commercial dry/canned food, too, the likelihood of exposure is perceived to be higher with raw meat:


No pet food is immune from the possibility of Salmonella contamination. There is evidence, however, that feeding raw foods, such as raw meat and eggs, increases the risk of Salmonella infection and shedding of the bacteria (leading to possible infection of other animals and of people).2-9 Regardless of the type of food you choose to feed your pet, proper precautions should be taken to protect your family's health.

If I am correctly understanding the AVMA's policy re: raw feeding, a component of the increased risk is the fact that raw meat petfoods are not regulated as are commercially prepared dry and canned foods.


Scientific studies have confirmed that pets fed raw diets contaminated with Salmonella can become Salmonella carriers...

...It’s common knowledge that raw meat is likely to be contaminated with bacteria; it’s not sterile by any means. Even USDA-inspected, “human grade” meat is not free of bacterial contamination...

...Bacteria are expected to be present in raw meat, so the presence of Salmonella or other bacteria in raw diets does not trigger the same regulatory process that applies to commercially made canned or kibble pet foods...

...Unlike with raw pet foods, the detection of Salmonella or other bacteria in a commercially processed pet food triggers a cascade of events at the state and federal level that lead to a voluntary recall by the pet food manufacturer. The pet food is considered adulterated and not fit for distribution or sale.

[kaibosmom]

Thanks Marianne!