New member Greeting. Golden with Cushings

[Halo's Mummy]

Hello everyone! My name is Michelle and my baby girl is Halo she is a Pure Golden Retriever she is 8 1/2 turned 8 in May.

Her symptoms started in about April or May not sure exactly because my family kept telling me I was nuts. I guess no need to go into detail but I have no income right now and have filed for ssi disability over a year ago, so completely broke is putting it mildly. A few months ago when Halo really started getting lethargic I started searching for organizations to help pay for her to see a vet and on the 13th of December we finally got enough donations thanks to Golden Retriever Rescue of Michigan. Today 12-15-12 the vet called and her tests were back and it is defiantly Cushings (we already knew it was though) but not sure which kind but since I cant afford surgery it doesn't really matter. She will start meds in a few days when they get here also being paid for by donations =) Anyway I just wanted to say hi. I will be busy for hours reading all these posts I bet I get alot of helpful info.

Michelle

[Halo's Mummy]

She was just diagnosed today with Cushings although I have "known" for awhile she had it. But my question is does anyone know what I can do about these sores on her upper lips. Anyway today while drinking she bit the heck out of one of these sores and took a good chunk off I finally got the bleeding to stop but my question is what is causing her to bit them and what can i do to help her. She never had them before so they came with the Cushings symptoms. She will start her Cushings meds in a few days when they get here by mail, but I feel so bad for her when she drinks she bites her lip and bleeds everywhere poor baby has enough issues.

[mytil]

Hi and welcome to our group. I am sorry you both are having these troubles.

Firstly, when you get the chance, post the results of the tests performed to diagnose Cushing's. Post all the numbers as they appear on the results. That way we can get offer more advice.

You mentioned surgery - actually this is more common in adrenal - dependent Cushing's but many treat with meds instead of surgery.

Tell us what medicine you will giving Halo and the dosage (as well as her weight)

Also here is a link that help with the finances Funding sources (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212)

Terry

[lulusmom]

He and welcome to you and Halo.

You mention that symptoms started in April or May. Can you please tell us what symptoms she has? I can tell you that sores/blisters in the mouth is not a symptom associated with cushing's but it is a symptom of autoimmune diseases. Symptoms for a few of these do overlap with those associated with cushing's. Systemic Lupus (SLE) is one of them as is pemphigus vulgaris. Have you called the vet to tell them bout the bleeding blisters. if not, please do so because even if Halo has cushing's, I think there may be something else going on.

What form of cushing's does Halo have....pituitary or adrenal? Is she on any medication and if so, what are they and why is she taking them? I would like to echo Terry and ask that you get copies of all testing done by the vet to diagnose Halo and post those results here. With respect to the blood work, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges.

I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here but I'm glad you found us.

Glynda

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome.

The blood work would really help to know what else might be going on with Halo and help to determine what is causing the sores. It's easy to give advice if we know more.

What has your vet said about the sores?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Halo's Mummy]

Ok alot to add here. I will start with her symptoms and dates as I kind of remember them. She started with veracious eating getting into the trash and when you give her treats or anything by hand she went from being gentle to snipping your fingers, for some dogs this is ok but her NO WAY she is so sweet and mild. The excessive panting, and excessive thirst was there too but she has always been big on water so i didn't notice it at first. These things started sometime in spring Probably May. Around that time I trimmed a spot of fur on her back to apply vectra flea protection because she is allergic to fleas I wanted to make sure it got to her skin and not soaked up by her thick fur. That patch still has not grown back. In the end of may (106lbs) i took her to the vet he ran blood work said all was ok except she had low thyroid, he put her on Soloxine 1.mg twice a day. 8/01/2012 he ran her blood work again T4 result 0.8 so it was still low, but she had lost 11 lbs in 2 months so he lowered the dose to .8 twice a day. Next the hair thinning and not growing back and as she lost more weight the pot belly was more obvious and she lost weight everywhere but her belly. On the August 1 visit the vet recommended the cushings testing but i had no money to pay for it he said most likely she would be ok that some dogs live with it untreated. 2 months later when it was time to refill her hypothyroid meds the vet refused to see her until I paid off my bill. Since my ex-husband had quit paying them the monthly payments. They would not refill her meds either. This is when I started searching for organizations to help.

List of symptoms

Excessive drinking/thirst.
Excessive appetite (now she doesn't like to eat 2 days, but she eats if mixed with canned food),
Hair thin and not soft,
huge pot belly,
lost 23 lbs since May 30th. She was overweight so this isn't all bad.
Lost tons of muscle. He skull and hip bones and even some ribs can now be felt.
She Can't do stairs anymore her rear legs are to weak. Has trouble getting up from laying down (back legs/hips)
Peeing in the house. (Had bladder infection well blood in urine after thanksgiving but after I had a 10 day supply of antibiotics that I gave her and that seems to have gone away.
Licks her front legs after eating or drinking. Saliva seems slimy (but maybe that is me)
3 times now she has had what i think is conjunctivitis. she has gotten a puffy spot under her eye and it makes her inner eyelid seem to not work right almost looks like a basid hound. Goes away after 2 or 3 days.
She is horse too.

This is the blood results from 12-13-2012 that day they did the Cushing's testing.
ALKP 693 HIGH Normal 23-212
ALT 372 HIGH Normal 10-100
AMYL 310 LOW Normal 500-1500
GLU 168 High Normal 70-143 SLIGHTLY HIGH AFTER FASTING BUT THEY WEREN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT
HCT 45%

Ultrasound Results - Liver Spleen and gallbladder appear normal. Although Liver is enlarged. No masses seen. Unable to see Adrenals due to excessive gas patterns.
X-ray Excessive gas, slightly enlarged liver, No masses seen.

She was sent home on Metronidazole 500mg 1 1/2 twice a day and Famotidine 20mg Twice a day. They want to get her cushing under control before worrying about diabetes testing and putting her on thyroid meds again. Although I showed the vet the sores on her lips she didnt seem to think it was anything. They don't always bleed only when she bites them. Current Weight 83.4lbs
Her results from the low dose dex test said it was definably Cushings but not sure which kind. Her meds are being mailed and should be here today or tomorrow.

[Halo's Mummy]

How do I add pictures? I can add pictures of her sores if you want. I also made a video because Some of the Organizations that are helping with her bill want to see her progress so I made a video and posted it on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFtLIIhSGtQ

[Halo's Mummy]

Just got off phone with Vet she is going to email me the low dex test results. Also she wants me to take Halo in for electrolyte and fecal tests. Since Halo is not wanting to eat we have to figure out what is going on in her GI tract before she starts any cushing meds. So I have to wait for the rescue to call to approve paying for more testing then I will post more. She thinks the lips issue is some weird name thing that boxers get alot. Sorry didnt catch the name but she says it is nothing to worry about yet we have to first get her GI working properly then the cushings then the rest.

[Halo's Mummy]

DEXAMETHASONE SUPPRESSION

9.0 Pre test HIGH
POST 4 HR DEX 8.9 ug/dL HIGH
POST 8 HR DEX 7.7 ug/dL HIGH

Normal range 1.0 - 6.0 ug/dL

[cheydogger]

I just watched Halo's videos. I cried my eyes out watching the one with music. Halo is such a pretty baby:). I hope she gets to feeling better.

Hugs,

Ro and Chey

[molly muffin]

i, for adding pictures, you should be able to go to your User CP, edit avatar and just browse to add an picture. Alternately, you can go to pictures/albums and create an album for Halo and upload pictures from your computer and they will be automatically re-sized.
That should do the trick.
Love the videos of Halo! She is such a pretty girl and so smart. She does look tired though and has that belly. I hope that they can figure out the GI issue of her not eating. Will she eat boiled chicken? with some boiled very mushy rice. Bland. It is one of the things that we give to dogs with pancreatis. Like 4 small meals a day. Just to get her going.


Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Halo's Mummy]

Sorry I didn't mean to make people cry with that video, but it seems most people who have seen it have cried. I used music I like that talks about making sure the ones you love, know you love them but seems the melody makes people cry.

Just got back from vet. This is another vet because the one that did her cushing's test is 1 1/2 hours away, so another vet agreed to do the tests and talk to my other vet. He did chest x-ray said she MIGHT have an upper respiratory infection, and gave her a shot of penicillin. Still a lot of gas in her abdomen and thinks she is in a lot of pain maybe from the gas but probably from the enlarged liver. But pain meds cause more GI problems then they help so he doesn't think she should take any yet. He gave me Canned I/D food to give her and will call with the electrolyte and fecal results tomorrow.

How much water should she be allowed to drink. If giver the chance she would drink 6 to 12 cups in no time. I have been giving her 6 cups every 4 hours and she drinks every sip, but seems like that is A LOT of water. Is it too much? I hate not letting her drink because she seems to really want water but if its making her sicker.... I just don't know.. I know she is miserable but I cant seem to help her and its killing me!!!:(:confused:

[labblab]

Hi from me!

The general rule of thumb is that you should NOT restrict water intake for a dog suspected of Cushing's. A hallmark of the disease is excessive thirst and urination, but it is actually dangerous to limit the amount of water that is available to a Cushpup. Although you would think the excessive intake is leading to the excessive urination, in large part it is the other way around -- the dog needs water to keep up with the excessive urination. So you should make sure that Halo always has water available to drink.

Marianne

[Halo's Mummy]

All other vet info is at my other thread http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=88658#post88658

At the last appointment they were not sure why Halo's WBC was elevated but he did see "some" congestion in her lungs so assumed it was a upper respiratory infection. Since she started the antibiotics she has good days and bad days sometimes she gets up whenever you walk in the room, and wants to play other days you have to make her go out to pee. The vet wants me to start the Trilostane today or tomorrow (5 days after starting the anti-biotics). Since I can't tell if it is Halo's "cold" or the Cushing's causing her to be "lazy" (I say lazy because its not as bad as lethargy was 2 weeks ago) I guess I am just scared she is not over her cold or that I am not properly prepared with what to watch for good and bad of Trilostane. Can you tell me a good site to read about it. I need to know what to watch for what to expect, and most of all your opinion of starting it now or waiting. She has a "white slime" to her saliva I am guessing it is mucus from the cold, no nose drainage, or cough, her breathing is "unusual" but has been since the Cushing's started in April or May.

Thank you Michelle and Halo:confused:

Moderator's note: I have merged your update on Halo into Halo's original thread. We normally like to keep all posts on a pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for other members forever to the pup's history'

[addy]

You want to look for vomiting, loose stools, lethargy,weakness. We always say dont give the drugs to a sick dog. I guess I am on the fence about your pup's cold. I'm not there to observe your dog so you should go with your gut.

I will tell you my Zoe had minor surgery to take a ruptured growth off her back. At the same time our IMS wanted me to change her dose as I had requested going to twice day dosing. Normally, I would not have done that because I would not know cause and effect. The vets seem to be not as cautious as we are. In hindsight, I wished I would have waited as it was hard to know what was going on with her those few weeks.

Go with your gut feelings. Our research section has a wealth of information for you to read.

[labblab]

Hi Michelle,

I'm sorry that Halo is feeling poorly. It does make it very difficult to know whether the majority of her symptoms are being caused by Cushing's or whether something else is also going on. Many of the problems you have described do sound like Cushing's, but other things do not. So it is a puzzle.

Here's a link to a thread that contains a lot of helpful info about trilostane:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185

I think it should give you a good idea as to side effects and treatment monitoring. Can you tell us what dose of trilostane your vet has prescribed? The people who make brandname Vetoryl are currently suggesting a formula of approx. 1 mg. per pound as a starting dose.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Hello Halo and Michelle:
Sorry to hear of your situation. I am a new member here and hardly qualified to give you help, but I was wondering if you contacted the Golden Retrievier Club Of America? Maybe they could offer you financial assistance or know of who would. God Bless you and your precious Halo, I know this disease can be very hard on you and the poor baby who has it. Good luck and hope you find help.

[lulusmom]

I question the wisdom of your vet's recommendation to start treatment while Halo is still ill. I'm also not completely convinced that Halo has cushing's. Reasons are: 1) Low Dose Dex Test was done while Halo had GI problems so would not be surprised with false positive results. 2) ALT liver enzyme is usually mildly elevated in cushdogs but Halo has a three fold increase in both ALT and ALKP. This suggests to me that there is a more than cushing's going on. 3) Adrenal glands could not be visualized on imaging due to excessive gas. This is a problem in that there is no way to validate the LDDS test. Liver was slightly enlarged but this is common in diabetes and hypothyroidism. When was the last time T4 was checked? 4) Sores in mouth are not common in cushing's and I'm not sure why your vet isn't concerned about it. Mouth sores and slimy saliva can be due to Stomatitis which is more common in diabetes and autoimmune disease than cushing's. 5) Fasted blood glucose is high and while not overly high, I still have concerns based on other symptoms commonly associated with diabetes mellitus. 6) Weight loss is consistent with diabetes as is excessive appetite that normalizes. Dogs with cushing's continue to have voracious appetites unless another underlying condition makes them sick. 7) It is unusual to have to force a dog with cushing's or diabetes to go outside to pee. Most can't concentrate their urine and have continuous accidents in the house.

I am going to ask Natalie, one of our administrators, to check out your thread. Natalie is also the owner of our sister site, k9diabetes.com. She is incredibly knowledgable of diabetes and if she says my suspicions are unfounded, then that's good enough for me to rule out diabetes, but I'd still have a question about the cushing's diagnosis.

Glynda

[k9diabetes]

Hi Michelle,

Natalie here from the canine diabetes forum.

Having read through your brief thread and looked at a couple of your photos, it's not clear to me what might be going on with Halo but I too am suspicious that something other than Cushing's may be going on.

I'm guessing that the thyroid level that caused the vet to put Halo on thyroid supplementation was just the standard blood panel rather than a test specifically for the various thyroid hormones?

The thyroid level on a standard blood panel can come out abnormally low pretty much any time there is some other concurrent illness going on so needs to be confirmed with a thyroid panel. Our diabetic dog, for example, used to show low thyroid levels routinely on the standard panel but right in the middle of the normal range on the more sensitive tests, so it was just his diabetes that was skewing the other results.

Losing so much weight could be something like inflammatory bowel disease or pancreatic enzyme insufficiency (EPI) where the food she is eating isn't being absorbed properly.

Elevated liver enzymes are just that - indicators of liver health, which can be Cushing's related but also can be just plain liver related.

Could be Cushing's plus something else.

There are just an awful lot of unknowns and inadequate information to confirm the diagnosis. Trilostane is a powerful med and I wouldn't want to give it unless I was sure it was what is needed. One vet feeling that she is in pain is very concerning... that would seem to be coming from something else.

I know the financial constraints make any additional testing difficult. Do you know if they looked at the GI tract during the ultrasound? Did a specialist do the ultrasound?

Natalie

[Halo's Mummy]

Update and response to most recent thread posts here. I started Halo on her Trilostane 60mg once a day on the 27th with her afternoon meal, that is breakfast to the normal human LOL I am a nights person.
The cold has subsided and the slimy saliva has gotten mostly better.

She seems almost normal now still weak when it comes to doing the stairs she does them very slowly and I only allow her to do them once a day, but she just hated being away from the family (We live upstairs only use the kitchen downstairs). She naps a lot but other then that seems like a normal old dog.

The massive belly seems to be getting smaller already and more squishy or less taunt.

No gas that I have had to be tortured with either.

Not quite her self in the sense she is not constantly obsessively asking to play ball. But if my brother walks by she gets up fairly fast compared to 2 to 3 weeks ago and wants to play, but lays down soon after. If her bratty brother bumps her to hard she will fall over on her weak rear legs.

Her eating is a little different she is fed as always twice a day but she prefers not to have the dry only food (Iams healthy senior) If i give her just dry (remember she was on canned I/D for a week after her GI issue.) She will leave some of the 2 cups in the bowl and eat it later in the day. So I decided to try giving her some rice and water with the dry and she gobbles it up. LOVES it.

She is drinking what seems like a normal amount not the excessive amount she use too somewhere in between a normal dog and a cushings amount... Now that she is with the family she is with my other dog who has decided all food and water must be guarded and is having to learn again that they SHARE water (worse then kids have to reteach them things sometimes). So its hard to tell who is drinking what but still even with 2 dogs I am filling the bowl less then I was when it was just Halo. She has gotten picky about her water after eating she leaves a little slime and food chunks in the water after drinking and once that happens neither dogs will drink from it. No biggy to change the water just thought I should mention it.

She doesn't seem to like to go out to go potty you have to TELL her to go potty or she just stays by the door and doesn't leave the deck. My thinking on this is either she just doesn't have to go, doesn't want to do the 2 steps to go off the deck, or she is worried she will miss me feeding her because when I feed them I put them out and then get it ready. Every time she comes in no matter what time of day she checks her food bowl. Not sure how much is her timid attitude how much is illness and how much is me being overly observant...

I am in the process of finding funds from organizations calling and putting in applications for grants and assistance for the further testing she needs for the continued cushing's care and the testing for the thyroid and diabetes. Dr. Marshall (my favorite vet that golden retrieve rescue of michigan wanted me to use) is 2 hours away so I can't keep taking Halo there but she has agreed to consult with me until Halo is doing GREAT not just ok. SO I will be taking her to the vet Dr. Steve who was the one to find the "cold" and thought she was in a lot of pain. I guess I am not thrilled with him because he didn't believe me when I told him that there was no mass so he did more testing then we needed to do and used up the extra funds we had. BUT the "pain" seems to be better she is DEFIANTLY feeling better no doubt about it.

She is so dam skinny now though it scares me she was never this skinny even at 1 year old. Bones are sticking out everywhere. I want to put her on a good food but I can't really afford to do it for long but for awhile I feel she needs a GREAT food to get some meat back on her bones do any of you recommend anything special? Should I just giver her canned? Have about 4 days left of her dry food so need to go buy food soon if going to change brands. We got tons of brown rice on sale so since she loves it I will continue to give her that too.

Sorry I know when I post I post A LOT but I have so much to say LOL..

[Halo's Mummy]

All that and I still have more to say HaHa. Once I get the funds I am going to insist on a detailed Thyroid panel so far she has only had the t4 free test i think it is called and none recently, Dr. Marshall felt there was no need to test for the diabetes and thyroid until we got the cushings and intestinal and then a cold under control. Or we would have gotten a bunch of bad results. I am hoping to get the funds for at least the acth test in a week because I know it needs to be done after 2 to 3 weeks of starting the meds but I may have to wait for the other testing.
What do you all think? I have $50 to use on her. Better food or testing until I get more funds from one of the pet funds. But I have not heard from any of them that I called or emailed or put apps into before she was diagnosed. So I am going to REcall them and REsend all the emails and applications with the new information and test results.

[Halo's Mummy]

Random odd thought. Halo had around 4 inches of her tail amputated in November 2011 just before all these health issues started. Could the surgery or something like that have started all this? The only meds she was on was Rimadyl and Amoxilcilin. It was a grooming accident the itty bitty tip of her tail got clipped because she jumped up to bark and well u can guess this little mommy felt horrible!!! It happened on a Friday night and I couldn't get it to stop bleeding by Monday so she went to the vet the only cure was to cut off about 4 inches or more in surgery. Blew my mind the amount of blood that comes from a dogs tail, she is such a happy dog she made the house look like a murder happened here, I still find tiny little blood spots to scrub now and then. It never bothered her one bit not even a yelp, she hated the bandages but even that she got over in a few hours. She was sick for a few days after the surgery but I just figured it was the anesthesia, because it made my other dog very sick when he got neutered and had his knee surgery. The fact that you couldn't just stitch it up shocked the heck out of me but I am not a vet so...
This just occurred to me as I was looking at photos and noticed the fur changes started around the same time, however the reason I was trimming the fur on her tail was because there was a hot spot on it. Just a thought. She was spayed in February 2011 or around there.

[Harley PoMMom]

I really don't think surgery can cause Cushing's in a dog. Regarding her cropped tail, did it heal normally, does it feel hot to the touch, does she seem to be bothered by it?

Adding carbs to a dogs diet will increase weight, carbs such as rice, noodles, pasta, potatoes, oat meal...etc.

An ACTH stim test is very important and should be done at the timelines that Dechra recommends. Also the timing of the test is vital for an accurate result. The ACTH stim test needs be done 4-6 hours post morning dose.

Hope this helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Halo's Mummy]

A couple of days ago when petting halo and feeling if she was gaining wait i noticed the skin on her back about half way down from her head all the way to her tail was a bit hardened. I looked at it and it looks purplish with what looks like areas of well craters sorry no idea how to describe it almost like someone who had very bad ache and has scars. I am going to post pictures. I didn't worry too much about it because I know cushings and hypothryoidism can cause skin issues but tonight when examining this area and her skin I found 2 sores on either side of her tail. They look like hot spots starting or healing. Scabbed. Took pictures of them too. Well the question is what could this be?? Should I be concerned? like I said it is all up and down her back. belly and other areas look fine. It feels almost hardened and very dry.

Still trying to get the funds for her further testing on her cushings. She is doing great she isn't itching that I have seen and since she is feeling so much better she is doing the stairs again and in my room with me most the time. Her gas issues come and go and her drinking in same as a normal dog maybe a bit more. She eats both meals like they were the first & best meal she ever had. I am having to slow her down again or she eats way to fast. She is playing ball, doing the stairs, and even can withstand some of her bratty brothers bumps and doesn't fall over every time the brat bumps into her now. SO overall she is doing great today was day 15 of her 60mg once a day dose of trilostane. She does still have a clogged nose now and then I notice her blowing out her nose and it sounds like she is blowing it then licks it off. Eeww but that's how they clear it. Only takes her a few tries to clear her nose and back to sleep she goes.

I am concerned with the skin issue and should I take her to the vet for that now or wait till I have all the funds to get her cushing's test and stuff done? Going to post pictures and maybe a video if it will let me. I only have my cell phone as a camera so some are hard to see.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

It is possible that what you are seeing on her back is calcinosis cutis - a skin condition that is connected to Cushing's. If this is what is happening, she needs to see the vet asap as this condition is hard to get a handle on and can become quite uncomfortable for the pup. Halo could be experiencing something altogether different but wanted you to have this info just in case. Here are some threads of members who are dealing with this for you to check out - (you can also use the "search" feature to find more recent posts)


Threads here where calcinosis cutis is discussed:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3940&highlight=calcinosis+cutis

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3870&highlight=calcinosis+cutis

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3765&highlight=calcinosis+cutis


And some links -

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/40502.htm

http://www.leospetcare.com/calcinosis-cutis/


Finally, a link to images of CC - (caution, pics are rather graphic)

https://www.google.com/search?q=calcinosis+cutis+in+dogs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=x4J&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=dADwUJONAYn5igKfn4AQ&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1467&bih=652

Hope this helps.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Halo's Mummy]

I had already done research on the cc skin stuff the photos on google didn't seem to look like what I am seeing but the posts on here seem to be similar because it is down her spine and by her tail. I called the vet so now just the long wait for a call back. We were waiting another week or 2 for the first ACTH stim test because of cost and the fact that she is acting so much better so fast. This skin issue doesn't seem to bother her no scratching or anything. I have been trying to decide if I should shave her near the 2 sores and use the hot spot spray, but once I shave her there will be no more hair for a long time. I know this because a patch on her back still hasn't grown back from early spring and we trimmed her long fur in summer and it is still short in most areas. Uggg it's one thing after another. If I had money this wouldn't be so bad but I hate not being able to take her to the vet when needed and I have not heard anything about the grants I have applied for. Back to research. Thanks for any responses I get.

[Halo's Mummy]

Link to photos I took of Halo's skin http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=595

Posted a video too on you tube in case you want to see it. I am not sure about the cc because the only place there is actuall lumps is by the sores near her tail. the rest is more like craters purplish to redish skin with normal colored areas that look like craters, kind of like the surface of the moon. Very hard to describe.

http://youtu.be/YoUylyFo_Ow

[Squirt's Mom]

Hard to tell from the pics and video but Squirt has something called sebaceous adenomas which look a lot like you describe. These little bumps come up, form a crater like a volcano, erupt this dark crusty stuff, then go back down and start all over again. They never completely go away but they aren't always raised and dark either. There are apparently several different forms of these adenomas but hers is nothing to worry about according to her vets.

I hope you get an answer soon and a viable plan of action that helps.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Leslie, do they do a skin scraping to determine if it is CC or something else?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Halo's Mummy]

My plan. Since I can't get Halo to the vet right now and the skin issue doesn't seem to bother her I am going to give her a warm tub soak then cut the hair around the sores and put neosporin on them. What do you think about an epsom salt soak? She loves to lay in the tub and when I let her soak in the tub I sit with her so I wouldn't allow her to drink the water. Once her fur is wet I might be able to see her skin better and get better pictures.

At this point if she gets worse in anyway I am going to have to give her to a rescue that can afford to take care of her. It kills me but I just can't afford to take care of her right now. I can't even afford to take care of myself. It kills me but it would be best for her. Until I get out of my finical predicament and then can payback the cost of her care to get her back home.

[addy]

Without knowing what the sores are, I hesitate to advise any kind of soak with epsom salts.

Perhaps Saber's mom will stop by to have look and give some advice. She dealt with calcinosis cutis extensively. Saber had plates of it.

Hang in there.

[molly muffin]

Yes, I agree with Addy. I wouldn't do a soak in salts right now.
Lets see what is what before you make any kind of decision okay?

hugs,
Sharlene

[Halo's Mummy]

Thank you ladies I am so scared I am not doing enough for her.

Ok so after wetting her down I can now describe the skin. Its a giant welt or hive. It starts at the base of the tail and goes half way up her back No where else but tail and back. Its a giant welt with areas that seem normal are not red or swollen that look like indents or craters. I took more pictures are trimming the fur. I used no epsom salt or soap but i did use a antiseptic wash on just the 2 sores and put neosporin on them. Please look at the pics now they show the edges of the tail and show what i mean by it doesn't look like the cc pics I have seen.

[molly muffin]

I really couldn't say what it is, but hoping some of the others might stop by and take a look soon.

How does Halo seem today?

I know that we all worry that we are not doing enough for our babies. I had a golden with very bad skin problems. I now know that because she was on prednisone for severe allergies since she was 2, that this caused the skin problems. I wish I'd know that then, no one ever talk to me about cushings. We just did what we could for her and she was very happy. The nature of the golden's that are well loved I think is to always be a happy dog.

Hope things are going well today.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

No, that doesn't look like Squirt's adenomas at all, nor does it look like the pics of CC that I have seen. The area is definitely inflamed but I couldn't say why. Is it possible she got a flea bite and is allergic to them?

Have you talked to your local Humane Society? Sometimes they are able to help folks with vetting so it would be worth a call. Also, some vets will work on payments with you - it may not be the vet you are used to seeing but if you can find one who will work with you, I would get her in asap anyway. Unless rescues work differently where you are than they do where I am, once you surrender your pet to a rescue, you give up all rights and a home will be found for them. Some rescues, like some HS', will try to help with vetting.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Halo's Mummy]

Yes Halo is allergic to fleas but I keep inspecting both dogs and see no signs of fleas. My other dog itches and chews all the time for about 2 months now, no rash no bumps nothing but he has other anxiety symptoms so i have figured it must be that. Halo had a fecal done about a month ago and it was clean so not a parasite. No Idea. Can i give her benadryl to see if the swelling goes down? The scabs are falling off the 2 sores and it just looks like healed hot spots. WEIRD she doesn't itch it or seem bothered at all. She is still a normal dog right now (not even a cushpup). Panting and drinking more not sure if that is because of the skin or not. Yeah I need to get her to the vet and have a call into the awesome vet up north that did her LDDS test and is just awesome she might be able to tell me what to do she is great like that. The skin issue has not spread or gotten any better, just stays the same. No hair loss. I am going to go buy her some hypoallergenic food, the iams she has been on shouldn't bother her but it is new (as of 15 lbs of food ago) She might have gotten some of Pirate's food his is kibbles and junk LOL (he prefers junk food) which has red dye and would be bad for her but I am careful in making sure that doesn't happen. She has been outside maybe she rolled in something but when it started there was snow. Now the snow has melted and everytime she goes out she rolls on her ball. She has done that her whole life so I don't think it's cause of the skin issue. She just loves to roll in stuff. Dead critter, her ball, snow, apples off the tree whatever she has always done it. UHgg I did look it up and seems it is ok to give a dog on trilostane benadryl, but i only found one site that said it was ok I cant find anything other info on benadryl and cushpups.
**SIGH** This too shall pass.
I am just so happy she is feeling better dispite it seems to be one thing after another, she is still SO much BETTER then a month ago. When she got her LDDS on Dec 13th I thought she was dying she is a totally different dog now then she was then.
I get so sad at times but if i can't get her back and she is not doing bad I don't want to give her up to a foster home. She is my baby and I am being selfish but I want her here!!
Hugs thanks for the advise and for checking in on us, this support helps me a lot thanks so much. Hugs from me and Halo would give you her ball and allow you to throw it as a thank you. LMAO

[molly muffin]

Well of course you want her with you. I would to.

I copied this dosage information off a website. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Dogs-701/dogs-benadryl.htm


Benadryl for Dogs or Cats

Benadryl is a brand name for an anti-histamine (diphenhydramine). Although it is considered fairly safe for use in dogs and cats, please be aware that it does have potential adverse side effects. It may interact with other meds that your pet is taking, so do not use it without first consulting your veterinarian. You should also use extreme caution using Benadryl in dogs that have glaucoma, prostatic disease, cardiovascular disease or hyperthyroidism.

Benadryl is quite effective when used in proper dosages.
Stops itching
Controls vomiting
Good for motion sickness
Can be used as a mild tranquilizer
Good for snake bites
Useful for vaccination reactions
Good for bee stings and insect bites

Be sure to use only the plain Benadryl formula. Giving benadryl with other combination of meds could be fatal, so be sure to read the box.

Liquid Benadryl is too high in alcohol content to be safely used for animals. Please use capsule or pill form.

Dosage every 8 hours
Dogs under 30 lbs and Cats : 10 mg
Dogs 30-50 lbs: 25 mg
Dogs over 50 lbs: 50 mg


This is another site with some information too. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_Benadryl_can_you_give_a_dog

I haven't heard of adverse reactions with Trilostane. Maybe someone else knows more about that or has used it on here. I know the vet recommended to me to use it with Molly if I needed to when she had an ear infection, but she isn't on trilostane either. I can't find anything that says it is bad for cushings pups.
Oh just found this, which seems to say it is okay.
http://www.ehow.com/about_6585688_benadryl-canine-cushing_s-disease.html

Sharlene

[Halo's Mummy]

Funny those are the same sites I had found. So I am waiting until her morning dose of trilostane has been in her system for 6 hours before I give her the Benadryl. I don't know her exact weight now because she went from 106 to 75 but is now putting weight back on so I will give her 50 mg and see if that works at all.
As for food my brother loves to cook so he searched the net and found a hypoallergenic dog food recipe and is cooking it now so they will get homemade dog food for awhile, see if that helps the skin, and the HORRIBLE gas she occasionally gets.
Did i tell you the sores are healed already and all i did was put neosporin on them twice a day for 2 days. They never got super bad like some hot spots use to. But just now when I let her in she was outside laying in the wet rainy grass and had been rolling too cause her back and head was wet. She loves to roll. When she was 106 lbs she couldnt roll and a few weeks ago she was too weak so it is very cute to see. I will try to make a video of her tomorrow as an update on how she is doing and show how she is playing and rolling and doing the stairs.

[addy]

Our IMS cleared the use of Benadryl with Trilostane, it is not a problem. I also had the pet pharmacy recheck, not that I dont trust my vet, buy hey, people can make mistakes, so I check twice:D

[Halo's Mummy]

Update on Halo. She is doing great. Back to obsessive ball playing, drinking normal, but was naughty the other day and stole a sandwich off my moms plate from the end table. Before she got sick you could have left food on the floor and she wouldn't have touched it.
The skin issue has changed its really weird to me. only being on the top of her back to her tail and a little down the back of her legs. The vet was sweet enough to give antibiotics and other ideas by looking at skin pictures i sent to her by email. She is convinced it is a flea allergy gone wild, but she has had flea rashes before and this is NOTHING like that. Halo is on antibiotics, hydro cortisone spray, and benedryl, also treated for fleas with Frontline plus just in case, but i haven't seen any fleas and I even bathed my other dog with Dawn to see if there were any fleas and NOT one in the water but ya never know so i am treating her even though it is freezing cold and not flea season here in Michigan.

Still trying to find a organization to help with funds to get her ACTH test, skin scraping test, hypothryoid, diabetes, and other blood-work. Have a place that will help with paying for her meds for 2 months when needed if the dose doesn't change it will be $86.00.

So nice to have her back to her old personality but man the skinny head with bones sticking out drives me nuts. It looks so bad, she has always been over weight so the rest of her looks skinny too but i would say close to normal weight and the steps are hardly an issue anymore. She can even get up off the hard wood floors now takes a few seconds but before the meds she couldn't do it without help.

So questions are Any other Ideas i can throw at the vet for her skin issues? (posting new pics)

When will she get some meat on her skull the bones sticking out really looks.

Will the fur patches she has lost grow back soon? Not counting the ones where the skin issue is?

[SoggyDoggy]

With regards to Halo's skin, did the vet mention the possibility of Pyoderma at all? I'm just wondering as the early photos show a number of what look to be small pustules, but I don't necessarily see them in the later photos. This could be because they are healing up with the antibiotics. Did she have them to start, and if so, does she have any now? Pyoderma is usually a bacterial infection in the hair folicles of the skin, treatable, but can be difficult and time consuming to get rid of altogether. My boy Fraser has just beaten a case of it. He used to have it a lot as a pup, but we managed to avoid it for 10 years. Along with his cushings diagnosis, we also had that to contend with. I got control of it with antibiotics, bathing him weekly in a chlorhexidine shampoo (phyohex) and then rubbing in a leave on chlorhexidine conditioner on him (resichlor).

Also, how long has Halo been on the antibiotics for now, and is she itchy? I ask that as the hydro-cortisone spray can actually slow the healing of the wounds - at least that is what I have been told in the past - also never spray it onto open wounds. If Halo isn't particularly itchy, maybe choose a patch and don't spray that area, see if the healing is affected one way or another.

There are a number of sites to read re. pyoderma, and google images certainly provides a number of pics to look at in all stages of severity. It might be worth a look and chat to your vet to see what they think. If it is pyoderma, just be aware, it can take a while for it to clear up completely, and if you stop the antibiotics too soon, it can come straight back as though it never left. Here is one such link: http://www.mypeted.com/dog-health-articles/skin-and-coat-care/pyoderma-dog-skin-infection.php it mentions the predisposition to pyoderma with endocrine diseases such as cushing's. Also, be aware that when the pustules heal, they will frequently be dark coloured underneath, appearing blackish, then become scaly and peel, which could be what you describe. This article also mentions the need for antibiotics for a period of 3-6 weeks. From experience, topical treatment works well to maintain and prevent further outbreaks, but once it's got a hold, anti-biotics are the only thing that will clear it up. (BTW, Fraser's reappeared after 10 years right at the time I changed shampoo's. Been using pyohex for 12 years, changed and the pyoderma was back within 4 weeks. We are back on pyohex for good now :) )

Anyway, just something for you to consider, skin issues are almost as hard to deal with sometimes!

Good luck, let us know how she goes.

[Halo's Mummy]

Thanks I will mention the pyoderma to the vet but she was convinced it was a flea allergy. None of the photos on google looked like what it use to look like to me, but a lot of them are shaved and she still has hair. Her hair was trimmed this summer to about an inch long and most of it is still there. Although I had to cut a patch of hair down to the skin to get a good picture for the vet.
As for itching she rolls whenever she goes outside but she never scratches not sure if its cause her hips hurt or what, seems like she should be scratching like crazy, she does however lick almost obsessively on her front legs.
It use to look like one giant raised hive with spots that were not swollen, but now it looks different. The recent pictures are what it looks like all over with some spots being worse, and others the scabs have rubbed off and the skin is just pink and waxy. Some of the scabs are actually black but no where is there spots of green pus or pimple like bumps.
Today is day 6 of anti biotics and first day without the spray because we ran out, i would only put it on once a day if she was rolling in the snow a lot. I haven't bathed her with any soap. Tomorrow I am going to call a local vet and see if I can get the shampoo you mentioned because her vet mentioned it too. Did you have to shave your furbaby to get it to clear up?
I am worried about cutting her hair shorter that it wont ever grow back and she will freeze when she goes out and look horrible. She has a spot on her back that still hasn't grown back that was cut in Spring last year.
When reading on pyoderma it fits it just doesn't look like pimples and no pus. But I am wondering if she got bit by a flea (a single flea could break her out with a horrible rash since she was a pup) and then that turned into a hot spot down by her tail which then spread to her back as whatever it is now, since she has cushing's and possibly hypothyroidism her immune system is off.
What i don't get is why it is in such a specific area. It is not on her sides and she always lays on her sides she has hardly ever been able to roll on her back. But oh well I am just going to wait out this antibiotic and try to get the shampoo before i cut her hair anymore.

Funny FYI She has a ton of nick names such as miss piggy since she burps after eating and doesn't chew anything that doesn't have to be chewed. My brother is now calling her BONEHEAD since her head is just skull with skin over it and fur no meat at all. I just added this cause I think it's funny.

OH Anyone else's cushpup have horse voice? Halo sounds horrible when she barks, has for awhile now and since she is feeling so much better i forget to ask about it.

[SoggyDoggy]

Hi, it was photo 205 (or 21? of 23) that looked like the little pustules to me. That and a couple of others in the early ones. Fraser's just looked like little pimples that would then scab and peel away in big flakes, often leaving black skin underneath. Obviously it is really hard to know from photo's but I guess if your vet is willing to keep her on the antibiotics and it clears up, that is the main thing. If it is pyoderma, no signs of pustules is a good thing, means it's healing up!

I didn't have to shave him for it to clear up, but I do keep his hair fairly short. He goes to the groomers every 8 weeks, but then his fur actually grows pretty fast still. I never had any hair loss issues with him as we actually caught his cushings fairly early comparatively, so that's not a hurdle we have ever faced. Even when the vet shaves him for needles, his hair is completely back in about 4 weeks. I did find when he was a puppy though, the secret to controlling it long term was to keep his fur short. Whenever it would get too long, he would tend to have another break out.

When it comes to bathing though, make sure you always use a shampoo specifically designed for dogs, not just a soap. They have a different ph level in their skin to us, and what can be great on our skin, not so much on theirs. If you can get hold of the pyohex shampoo, that would be great, it is a strong anti-bacterial type wash, operating theatres use a chlorhexidine wash too, so if it's good enough to get rid of their bugs.....:) But also, the pyohex is specifically formulated for dogs so it is fine to use on them. You do need to massage it through the coat really thoroughly and leave it on for 10 minutes before washing off thoroughly too though, so be prepared to spend a lot of time with the bath routine.

Last bit of advice, if Halo's skin hasn't cleared up by the time you only have 2-3 days of antibiotic left, ring the vet for some more. the 2-3 day period gives you time to get them without running out in the meantime. All antibiotics should continue to be taken for 6-7 days after symptoms have gone to make sure that the infections has truly cleared up. That goes for any infection, not just pyoderma.

Good luck!

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Michelle

I have had a quick look at the photos and it's hard for me to give a call on it. Sabre actually started with pyoderma around his anus ... well the vet had no idea what it was for a start ... the skin was lumpy and quite swollen. He also had a lump at an injection site which we were totally unaware of what it was until a few months later. Eventually the area around his anus actually had two large plates of calcinosis cutis there as well.

The early stages of calcinosis cutis are actually quite strange .... Sabre's had a raised, spidery, waxy appearance for a start. Some areas remained like this, some came to the surface, others got scabby, and others infected. This is the best picture that I have seen that shows you what I am trying to describe in the early stages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Calcinosis_cutis_dog.jpg.

Sorry I can't be of more help with regards to the skin.

With regards to hair growth in bare patches ... it probably will grow back. In Sabre's case all his hair grew back ... including where the calcinosis cutis plates were.

I personally would be wary of using hydro-cortisone on the areas. It will be giving Halo some relief but what you are doing is putting a steroid product on her skin.

Angela and Flynn

[Halo's Mummy]

Hello and again thanks for the replies. I spoke to the vet and she is wants me to use malaseb shampoo and gentaspray or benta spray which is the same stuff used for hot spots. (i told her about the replies here and the other shampoo and lotion suggestions) I ran out of the hydrcrotisone spray day before yesterday and didn't use it all the time but it's ok now since it's gone. I am only going to use the benedryl if she rolls around trying to itch which she hasn't in awhile about 2 days. Almost the whole area is now in sections that have turned to scabed areas. Sometime today I will try to get some video and post it on you tube because today I also need to do an update on there as to how well she is feeling these days. She is fast with the ball again and so darn happy I have to show people. Even the vet is unsure exactly what is going on with halo's skin but she said we will use the shampoo and anti biotics and spray (spray I am to try an area for 2 days to see if it helps and make sure it doesn't get worse in anyway) And hope that it is helping until I can get her to the vet in Feb. But it seems all organizations are out of funds. I have sent apps and phone calls and emails to so many org- and no one has responded. Very frustrating, but at least she id doing and feeling good.

[lulusmom]

Here's some good material on Canine Scaling Disorders and the various causes, treatments, etc.:

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/columns/42/canine-scaling-disorders

[molly muffin]

I think times are hard for all the organizations that help with animal care out there now. So many funds have had to go into disaster areas, its very hard.
I do think you are doing an excellent job though and I think that it is positive that what you are now seeing is more of scabbed areas, instead of one great big red area that was really bothering her. So that is good to know.
We have so many knowledgeable people here that if you have a question, just post it and someone will see it and hopefully have a suggestion for you. Team Work!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Halo's Mummy]

Calcinosis cutis. I am fairly positive now that Halo's skin issue is Calcinosis cutis I posted new pictures if you want to see and since the vet wants her wearing fashionable attire I added some cute pictures of her in her favorite T-Shirt. We are bathing her 2 times a week with Malasab shampoo and if spots get icky or pus looking i use the Bentan spray. She just started wearing the T-shirts yesterday and they don't bother her at all and she has stopped rolling around on her back so maybe they actually help. Her spirits are still high and she is playing and acting like a happy healthy dog. She drinks more then the average dog still and eats like she has never eaten before but I know her Trilostane dose is low but we need to do the testing and I still haven't gotten all the money I need but soon very soon because she only has 15 days of pills left. (60 mg she weighs about 75 give or take a few) Not real sure what her weight is now since she lost so much and gained some back. Just wanted to keep you updated and get any further advise if you have it, since the vet has only seen the pictures you have and talked to me by phone. BEST VET EVER!! Oh She is almost done with her 2nd round of Keflex 500mg twice a day. Vet thinks it was an irritation from something she rolled in outside then it became pyoderma then CC..... The domino affect.. I hate dominoes LOL.

One more funny comment my mother and I recently got into watching THE WALKING DEAD because there was a marathon and she was sick so I kept her company and oddly enough we both now like the show. My brother saw a zombie then looked at Halo and her red scaly icky skin with no hair and said ZOMBIE DOG AHHHHH lol I thought it was funny. Poor dog has been called bonehead and now zombie dog....

Michelle and Halo

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Michelle

I have had a quick look a the recent photos you have uploaded of Halo's skin. It is sometimes so hard to identify calcinosis cutis in the early stages .... the only real way to tell is a skin biopsy and I know that money is tight. I have skimmed the rest of your posts and think that the best you can do at the moment is to save money and get and ACTH stim test. If the skin disorder is calcinosis cutis the only way to finally get it controlled is to have Halo's cushings controlled ie. have her cortisol brought down and be "in treated range" for the ACTH stim.

I must say that Halo looks quite the beautiful girl in her T-Shirt :).

Angela and Flynn

[Halo's Mummy]

Well A lot to catch up on. Halo has been a very sick pup. About 10 days ago we noticed she was slowing down not wanting to go up stairs again or get up to go outside, you know just ill. We kept an eye on her and she kept getting weaker until the 20th when she couldn't hardly stand we called the vet and she said sounds like diabetes. For 4 days her sugar was high and uncontrollable she wouldn't eat walk and hardly pick up her head. Her keytones in her urine were 40. She seemed to not even be "there" then finally we got her sugar under control somewhat with subcue Lactated Ringer's solution insulin and checking her sugar every few hours. For a day and a half with her sugar in the 500s still she was up and walking still wabbably and ill but getting a touch better. Then she bottomed out again we woke she would not move again, her sugar was in the 600s meter doesn't read that high and she would not eat drink or anything. Then i noticed some blood on the carpet and looked at her paw. She had a puncture wound on her back paw. It was filled with pus and blood mix. Of course we called the vet immediately and kept up with all the glucose fixing we were doing. The skin came off several places where the abscess had been swollen on her foot. We used peroxide twice to super clean the wound then kept it drained. Now we are using Hibicleans i think its called mixed with warm water then rinsed well, she of course was put on antibiotics, and now is only day one of the antibiotics but day 3 of draining the wound and cleaning it. (of course all of this was recommended by the vet except the peroxide that was on sunday before i saw we shouldn't use it). Today she is feeling so much better we are having trouble keeping her from walking around trying to play ball. She is eating and drinking again and her sugar stays between 200 and 400 for the most part. WOW what a horrible week TWICE we had decided we were going to put her down when the vets office opened but she pulled thru. AMAZING SCARY and HORRIBLE. She is nowhere near out of the woods yet the foot is in horrible condition and infected but we are doing everything the vet told us to.

Her skin is still bad and her Cushing's is not currently being treated because she can't handle the meds with everything else going on. She will only eat chicken so no dog food yet but we are ok with that. Yesterday she would only eat out of my hand not even from a bowl. Today she will eat from a bowl if you give her the first bite by hand.

Just wanted to update you all. I love my vet so much for helping us through this she has been wonderful telling us what to do and what meds and stuff to go buy so we could save her with out 15 visits to the vet. She goes back to the vet on the 3rd unless things get worse. Then she will get her curve testing for her sugar and more cushing's testing and bloodwork, and something more with her skin the CC has not gotten any worse or better, nothing has helped or changed that at all.
Any ideas on Home cooked meals for Diabetic dogs? I am not sure the other recipe will be good for her because it had rice in it and that is not good for diabetics is it? Old recipe was Brown rice, chicken, burger (lean), vegetables, carrots green beans all boiled to death in a crockpot then blended together to make my dogs very very very happy at diner time.

Michelle

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Michelle,

What a horrible time for you all. :( I'm glad Halo is doing a bit better, tho. Please go on over to our sister site, K9Diabetes, and register today. They are the experts in this area and will be able to offer you some great insights. You can find them at - http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

Keep in touch and let us know how things are going!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang