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View Full Version : My dog Bo's fur loss, cushings?



LRose88
12-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Hi,

I am hoping to gain some insight on my dog Bo and the symptoms he's been having and whether or not it sounds like he has Cushings.

We got Bo from a rescue 3 years ago and he just turned 11. He is half pomeranian and half corgi. He has always had skin and fur issues. He had these spots of black/brown little speckles on his skin (like some sort of greasy deposits that would eventually flake off), pretty much in random spots all around his body. When we first got him his fur was dry and wasn't growing in many parts of his body. It took a whole year for him to get his full coat in, which was beautiful.

Last summer (2011) he had some hot spots on both sides by his thighs and on his tail. We had to cut the fur off these areas in order for them to heal. The fur on his sides grew back but the fur on his tail still hasn't grown back completely.

Maybe about 3-4 months ago I noticed the black speckles were more greasy looking and spreading. I called the vet and they told me to keep an eye on it and call them if it changed. A couple weeks after that I noticed the fur in the areas with the black speckles was thinning. If you pulled on it, chunks would come out. It wasn't completely bald in those spots, just thinning. This was mostly on his torso region and around his neck where his collar was. Again, I called the vet and they didn't seem concerned. They said if he's acting otherwise normally (which he was) that they did think it was necessary to bring him in.

On Thanksgiving I noticed a very large area with black spots that was flaking off. I started trying to clean the chunks out and all his hair in that area came out and was bald. This happened in a few more areas as well. This is on his shoulder region. The areas of hair loss ranged in size from large (about the size of a golf ball) to small (smaller than the size of a dime). These areas now have no fur and no longer any black/brown speckles except around the very outer edges of the hair loss. I called the vet the next day and went in for an appointment.

The vet did a skin scraping and looked at it under the microscope and didn't find anything. They then set up a test for ringworm to be done (fungal culture I think?) which would take a while to get back. They also mentioned other causes of the hair loss including his pomeranian breed, allergies, Cushings, or other diseases. They just called me a couple days ago and said the ringworm test was negative. So, they wanted to go ahead and schedule the Cushings test in which they would take his blood, give him an injection, then take his blood an hour later. Depending on his body's response to the injection they can tell if he has Cushings or not. I asked questions about Cushings and its prognosis and treatment, and was a bit confused and upset why now the vet is saying she thinks its "likely" he has Cushings when before she didn't say that and he only really has the one, maybe two, symptoms. The next day I called back to ask what the injection was and if there was any possibility Bo would be allergic to it or have a negative reaction. I was told I am not allowed to ask any more questions about Bo or the Cushings test and would have to schedule another appointment if I wanted to do so. We have been going to this vet for years and have literally spent thousands of dollars there, I think they can answer one more, simple question. I started crying but they just kept repeating, "We have been told not to answer any more questions of yours without scheduling another appointment." This is one of the only natural vets in my area and there have been several times they have done ridiculous things and I have considered leaving, but didn't because there weren't any other options for holistic vets. Needless to say I am not spending another penny there. That was the last straw. We will be going back to a holistic vet we saw several years ago who closed her clinic with another doctor to go back to school and has now opened her own clinic.

I have read posts on here and you all seem so kind and helpful. I was hoping you could let me know what you think of Bo's symptoms and if it sounds like he has Cushings.

Here is some other notes about Bo that might be helpful:
-He has been taking Standard Process Canine Thyroid support since we got him (I can't remember if its for hyper-, or hypo-thyroidism)
-He eats a grain-free diet
-In the last few months I have also noticed Bo's coat is more greasy and has an odor to it. He has never been greasy or smelly before.
-He has also have more ear wax production in the last couple months, and has been licking his feet more
-He got his blood tested about 5 months ago and it was all normal
-He has a grade 2 heart murmur that hasn't changed since the vet first found it
-Probably about 3-4 months ago he urinated in the house about 5 times in one week. He will go inside if he REALLY needs to, but this was unlike him. I was about to bring a urine sample to the vet but couldn't get enough from him. But over the weekend no more accidents and no more since then either.
-I wouldn't say he has increased water consumption or a "ravenous" appetite. He likes food, but doesn't seem extreme about it.
-He has been getting more tired these last few months on his walks. But he also has luxating patellas in both back legs, which can slow him down sometimes. But sometimes he walks our full route just fine without being tired.
-Sometimes I have noticed he does pant harder than before while on a walk or afterwards. But he never pants when not active or just at rest.
-Since he is half corgi, he is short and stout. The vet said his belly looks "somewhat" like a dog with Cushings, but I really think it's just his corgi build.
-The hair loss seems to be spreading, with some spots just thinning and some bald. It is mostly on his neck, shoulders and back, and on the back of his hind legs near his butt
-Other than the things noted here, he has been his normal goofy self. Still plays the same and does the silly things with momma (me) that he always has.

I have spent countless hours reading on different diseases in dogs and trying to find the black speckle spots that seem to be associated with his hair loss. I couldn't find anything like it online, until last night.

The 2nd picture in this article (the closeup of the skin) looks EXATLY like what Bo's brown spots/speckles look like and his fur loss. http://www.cantonpomeranians.com/stories/24029

The picture on the right is what the greasy brown/black speckles that appear on his skin look like (but his come up within his fur, not on a bald spot like this picture) and the picture on the left is what it looks like after the brown stuff flakes off and the hair loss has occurred. You can see how there is still a small outer ridge of brown where the spots used to be. I think the article is saying the diagnosis of the dog in the picture was "Candid Parapsilosis." So a yeast infection in the skin. I read some more on this and it can happen on its own, but I also saw that it could be related to other issues in dogs, like Cushings.

So, I would so appreciate your help with this. What do you think of everything I described of Bo? Does your dog have these brown spots with hairloss? Does it sound like Cushings to you?

I am so desperate for an answer, but scared too. We just lost our 17 1/2 year old kitty this year from cancer and also lost our 14 year old golden retriever this year from kidney failure. I don't know if I could handle it if my little boy was diagnosed with something serious like Cushings… :(

Thank you (and sorry this is super long).

Lanae

Harley PoMMom
12-09-2012, 11:12 PM
Hi and welcome to you and Bo,

I have only a minute to post and wanted to mention Hypothyroidism. Hyperpigmentation is assoicated with Hypothyroidism. Does Bo seek out warm or cool places to lay down?

Here's a link about this disease:http://www.lbah.com/word/hypothyroidism/

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

I'll be back later and I am sure the "others" will be by to welcome you and give advice.

Love and hugs,
Lori

LRose88
12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
Hi Lori and thanks for your reply!

I haven't noticed Bo having any particular preference when laying down...he will lie on his bed, the carpet, or the tile/wood.

He has been taking Standard Process Canine Thyroid support since we got him 3 years ago. I can't remember if the vet prescribed this because of hypo- or hyper-thyroidism. Since he started taking that his thyroid levels have always been normal. The last time he had a blood test I think was in June or July this year.

Thanks again and I look forward to getting to know everyone on here!

Lanae

Bo's Mom
12-09-2012, 11:34 PM
Hi there and welcome to the most wonderful group of people out there who will help you with the road you may be traveling. I am sorry to here that your Bo (I have a Bo too who has Cushings and my last name is Rose also :D) is going through this.
Don't ever hesitate to ask any questions that you may have and someone here will chime in to answer it. We have all been there and done that.
I just want to say one thing about your vet's office: What are they thinking???? Why would they say something like they aren't going to answer any of your questions? That is truly unprofessional and I am glad you are leaving there.
Good luck and please ask away!!!

LRose88
12-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Hi Belinda!

That's funny that your dog is Bo too! :)

Actually, my middle name is Rose, but it's still close enough!

I am glad that you agree about the vet. I talked to my mom about it and she said she thinks I ask too many questions... Of course I do, I love my animals! But, when you've been at a clinic for several years and spent A LOT of money there and donated many items to them, you would think they would have more compassion and understanding than what they showed me! I mean really, pay another $65 just for one question?! And like I said there are several other things that happened there previously that upset me... Anyways, I am looking forward to seeing our *old* vet again. We liked her but found out she opened her own clinic right when we finally felt "settled-in" at the other place and didn't feel like hopping all over like that.

Thanks for reading my really long post! What do you think of what I described with Bo? Does it sound like it's probably cushings, or something else? Could he just have a yeast infection in his skin and that's it, or is there always something more serious behind that?

Thanks again!

Lanae

frijole
12-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Lanae,

I agree with Lori - it sounds to me like Bo could simply be hypothyroid and it is easily treated with thyroxine, a thyroid hormone. It is critical that the dose be the right amount or symptoms like you have described pop up. The symptoms are similar to cushings but since you said the blood panel was normal and the hunger/thirst issues aren't extreme I'm thinking it's the thyroid.

As to your vet - that is insane! I would go and get copies of all of my records (save time and money on retesting) and they HAVE to give them to you because you paid for them. Just tell them rather than ask questions you want to read the notes and want copies of the entire file including all tests you paid for.

Then I would run like HELL to another clinic. Sorry but if you've spent thousands or hundreds that is unacceptable - besides they should be able to diagnose a simple thyroid case and whatever they've been giving isn't working.

My two cents :o:D
Kim

molly muffin
12-10-2012, 12:50 AM
Hello and welcome. :)
Kim's two cents by the way is worth a lot more than two cents. Many of the people on here have been down the cushings road for many years. On the way many other things end up being encountered.
What the heck are they thinking at that clinic. *shakes head There are Not too many questions when we are asking on behalf of a pet who cannot speak to tell you what is wrong and relies on you to be their advocate. sheeezzz.. I do sympathize, having gone down that road with my vet too. pffft

So, get that copy of all your tests results and head to the new clinic and your old vet. Check out the thyroid, ask for skin scrapings to be cultured, check for a UTI (the peeing in the house during those few days) (you'll want that to be cultured too to see if anything grows, not just an in house look) Although if they are going to do the whole thing and I think they should, make sure they check gravity and the whole deal on the urine.
A cushing dog would be drinking lots of water and due to that would be more likely to have accidents.
Mine has accidents when she is acting up, irritated with us or something, not from too much water. If yours isn't over drinking then the accidents are likely not from that.

We're here, so fee free to ask whatever you want. Someone will be along to try and give you and answer and we are always available for support. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

lulusmom
12-10-2012, 12:54 AM
My two cents is that I agree with Kim and do not believe Standard Process is doing much for Bo. The stinky oily skin condition and loss of coat sound a lot more like hypothyroidism to me and if it were me, I would definitely want to rule that out.

You mentioned that thyroid hormone levels have been checked and are normal but I'm a doubting Thomasina here and would really like to see the results of Bo's last thyroid test. Dr. Jean Dodd is a premier expert on hypothyroidism and states that while Standard Process can help support the thyroid gland, it does not provide thyroid hormone supplementation. That's a real problem if Bo truly does have primary hypothyroidism. FYI, hyperthyroidism is rare in dogs and is either caused by thyroid cancer or too much thyroid hormone supplementation.

With Bo's chronic skin problems, which are currently active, new blood work should be done. Most blood chemistry panels include the T4 thyroid hormone level so that would be a good start.

Glynda

P.S. Based on Bo's symptoms, cushing's would not be my first suspect but if you want to pursue a cushing's diagnosis, I would highly recommend that you either find a conventional gp vet who has lots of experience with cushing's or better yet, an internal medicine specialist who is highly trained and experienced with all endocrine disorders. There are vets out there that use a combination of holistic and conventional treatments but again, it's important that they have experience with cushing's.

mytil
12-10-2012, 08:01 AM
Hi and welcome from me too. I would agree with the others, I would be inclined to believe there is something else going on here and not Cushing's.

Please post any test results here when you get the chance. AND, if the vet gives you any grief on this, remember they are yours - you paid for them.

While we are on that note, it is highly unprofessional for a vet, as well as any staff member to ever utter those words. Tell them that (after you get your copies :) ).

Tell them you are your dog's advocate and why would they have a problem with it. I ask my vet tons and tons of questions, we have long conversations too.

Terry

Bo's Mom
12-10-2012, 08:52 PM
Hi Lanae,
Did you call your "new/old" vet today to get Bo scheduled? I am inclined to go with what others are saying as far as Bo's diagnosis. But, please post his test results and the others who know so much more than me with what may be going on will let you know what they are thinking.
I hope you find your answers soon.

Lauren
12-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Hi and welcome, I have a 6 year old with Cushings. My Cooper was just diagnosed late in November. I hate that the vet's office treated you that way! You need to ignore their rudeness and get your answers! Have they done allergy testing? Those lesions and ear infection can also be related to allergies. Others in this group are far more knowledgeable than me, but in my case, Cooper suffers from both allergies and Cushings. Ask EVERY question you can, you are your baby's voice. Please post results when you find out. Really interested in outcome, Best of luck, Lauren

LRose88
12-11-2012, 04:14 AM
Thank you everyone! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me and Bo out and your friendliness! <3 I will try to answer each of you individually as best I can.

Kim- My husband called and requested the files be emailed to us. They said the files are too large for an email but to contact them again with the fax number of our new vet. So, hopefully there's no problem getting anything once we do that. When he told them we were switching clinics they just said, "Oh, Okay," like it was no big deal. There is one vet and one technician I really liked and will be sad to no longer see, but I just feel like overall that clinic doesn't care too much about a *single* patient because they have so many...

The Standard Process has worked well for Bo, unless recently it has stopped working for some reason. When we first got him (3 yrs ago) his thyroid was off and the old vet we went to (who is the new one we will be going back to) prescribed SP Canine Thyroid Support. A couple months later they rechecked it and it was normal and has been normal since then. It's possible though that something's changed and it's just not enough for him anymore.

In general is hypothyroidism a better alternative to Cushings? Sorry, I don't mean to be insensitive or anything to those of you whose dogs have it... I just am wondering what would be the better diagnosis for Bo with all these symptoms he's having.

Sharlene- I am planning on getting another skin scraping done and a new blood test as well with the thyroid on there of course. It's just tough to have so many tests done because we aren't really that well off financially right now... But if it's for Bo's health we'll do it and try to squeeze by. Thanks.

Glynda- Thanks for the showing be the difference between hypo- and hyper! I can't remember when our old vet prescribed the SP if she said he has "primary" or not, but maybe his levels weren't off so much that prescription drugs weren't necessary? I don't know...just a guess! I am hopeful you are right that Bo doesn't have cushings. Thanks!

Terry- I am glad you (and everyone else here!) agrees about asking questions! I just don't understand what they expect from someone? I guess maybe some people don't research themselves and ask questions and just trust every single word any vet says, so they don't like it when someone doesn't just "listen." I am glad you have a compassionate vet who takes their time with you and answers your questions!

Belinda- No, I wasn't able to call today. But I will tomorrow. I will post the results as soon as I have them! Thanks!

Lauren- I don't think they've done specific allergy testing. Would allergies show in the fungal culture? I've wondered if it could be allergies, but then again there haven't been any changes in diet, surroundings, shampoo, etc, so I don't know what would be the cause if that's the case. Thanks!

gabelle1995
12-11-2012, 01:26 PM
I was just reading through the posts and your info. It doesn't sound like Cushings. It does sound a lot like a thyroid issue. Even with special food Bo's thyroid is simply getting old and not able to produce the hormones it should. It happens to people too - trust me, I suffer from it along with my dog. ;)

If you have to choose between having hypothyroid or Cushings, you definitely want to have hypothyroid. It's easier to treat, not nearly as serious. Also cheaper to treat.

But all of the skin stuff you're talking about, ear wax, and all of that sounds a lot like hypothyroid.

But that's just my 2 cents. :-)

Good luck!

Sabre's Mum
12-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Hi Lanae

Welcome to the site. Dr Jean Dodds does do a thyroid blood test which is the most comprehensive in the world. Her website is http://hemopet.org/ and you need to look at hemolife. I am not sure what the price difference would be between the vet and Hemopet's cost but from the website her full thyroid test appears to be US$135. I have contacted Dr Dodds via email from New Zealand with regards to my IMHA dog and she was absolutely amazing ... prompt replies and for no charge .... she will take donations for her work but there is no pressure.

All the best
Angela

molly muffin
12-11-2012, 07:40 PM
What you want to do is talk to your new/old vet about what they think is going on and narrow down which test is most likely to tell you what is going on. Thyroid has to be considered due to the symptoms and I'd check that out before doing anything with cushings testing. Remember that you aren't going to do everything at once, it's a trickle. Test, get results, decide next step.
I'd take thyroid over cushings any day of the year. If I have a choice.
Don't panic yet. :) Also at your new vet or even walk into your old vet and just tell them you want copies of all tests. You're going to want that anyhow, for yourself, so you can keep up with what is going on at any given time. Journals. Great thing, makes it easier to remember what really happened and when. Memories, at least mine, seems to go blank right when I need the information.

This will get you started.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin