My Other Baby, Shelby [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

Tina

11-23-2012, 06:59 PM

Hi All,

Some of you may know that Jasper has a baby sister named Shelby. She is also a Mini Schnauzer and is almost 11 months old now. I thought I would post here for some advice, and didn't want this on Jasper's thread.

Shelby was about 4 months old and had been home with us for about 2 months when Jasper got sick and all the lab tests, vet visits, meds, etc. began, on the road to figure out what was wrong with him. There was the long process of ruling out many things and then finally getting the Cushings diagnosis toward the end of June. Since that time those of you that have been so kind as to be involved in Jasper's journey know that it has been a difficult road with many ups and downs. Basically since the beginning of May, I have pretty much been focused on Jasper's needs and taking care of him the best I can. Once all the problems with the Lysodren happened and he got toxic twice, all the complications related to that, and all of the difficulties getting him stable since, it has taken almost all of my time and energy to take care of him and get him to some level of wellness.

I of course have done the best I could with Shelby, and she has always had a lot of love, a comfortable home, lots of good things to eat, etc. But I have not been able to spend near the amount of time with her that I normally would have for training, and just working with her one on one to be a well adjusted puppy. I am feeling so incredibly sad, because she will be a year old at the end of next month, and I feel like her whole puppyhood has passed me by because of Jasper's illness. She is only a puppy once, and that is almost over. She is not socialized as well as she should be, and I haven't taken her many places, or taken her to experience all kinds of new things, because I just couldn't manage it with everything going on with Jasper.

She and I did complete a puppy kindergarten class at the end of April. I am so thankful I enrolled her when I did, because Jasper started showing symptoms right around the time she graduated, maybe a week or so later. So I didn't get to practice the skills with her for reinforcement.

I have needed to get a fleece sweater for her since it has gotten chilly here, and she is too small to wear any of Jasper's. I also wanted to get her a harness. Jasper is finally feeling good enough now to where I feel like I can actually take some time away from him on a day off, so I took Shelby to Petsmart today to try on some harnesses, etc. Well, she was quite unfriendly to both people and other dogs in the store. She was kind of growly at times, and got snippy with another little dog that growled at her. This is very upsetting to me, because she is a sweet little girl, and I know this behavior is all my fault.

The fact that I feel that her puppyhood has passed me by has been bothering me for quite a while, and I guess her behavior today just confirmed that she is not as well adjusted as I want her to be. And I am so incredibly sad about it all. I truly have done the best I can. I have a very demanding job, and that along with everything that has been going on with Jasper is all I have been able to handle. I am just so sad for her, and kind of angry that this all has happened. Jasper doesn't deserve this awful illness, and Shelby doesn't deserve to have to pay for it. I am worried about the future, I don't want her to be a snippy unfriendly dog.

I am sorry I am going on about this, I guess I just needed to vent. Thank you so much for listening and taking the time to read this. I know all of you here will understand how I feel. My friends try to understand and are supportive, but I don't think they really get it, even though they try.

Thanks again,

Tina

StarDeb55

11-23-2012, 07:33 PM

Tina, I would strongly suggest you PM Saskia, & ask her to read your introduction to Shelby. Sas is an absolute wonder on giving all of us insights in doggy behavior & training. I'm sure she can offer you some very good suggestions on working with Shelby.

Debbie

addy

11-23-2012, 08:59 PM

Tina, it all can be fixed, Shelby can still be a well adjusted dog. Dont be so hard on yourself. I can totaly relate as I sometimes feel Koko takes a back seat to his sick sister, Zoe. I try to do special things with him when I can, just the two of us. When Koko came to us he needed a lot of work and was ill and Zoe took care of him and gave up things for him so now it is his turn to help his sister. So it all evens out some how;):)

I dont know how you feel about clicker training but I believe in it and am always amazed at how fast you can teach a dog with this method.

My guess is a clicker, a bag of "gold" treats and Shelby will be walking around Petsmart like a pro.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

molly muffin

11-23-2012, 09:18 PM

Oh Tina, sweetie, it has been such a long road for you all and this is an all consuming illness at times. Especially with what you and Jasper have gone through. Hopefully now that Jasper is a bit more stabilized, you Can give Shelby the attention she needs.
I definitely second the suggestion to contact Saskia for ideas.
Shelby is going to need some interactions with other dogs though at some point and people. I know, because my Molly was not socialized and she can be a terror with new people and dogs. :(
I am sure that Shelby also is feeling very protective of you and I dare say of Jasper too.
Give yourself a big hug from me. I know this is very hard and that you are feeling horrible. You are doing what you can though and that is all anyone can do. Hopefully Sas will have some suggestions.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

mytil

11-24-2012, 05:22 AM

Oh Tina,

I agree, please do not beat yourself up over this - it can be fixed! When one of my girls (dogs) is ill, my focus is completely on her and the other things just stay on hold for a bit, it is perfectly natural and there are only a finite number of hours in day. :)

IMO, being a year old is still a puppy so you have not missed all the puppy years :D

Visiting petsmart could have been a very big deal to Shelby - a bunch of new smells, sights, people, dogs and lots of stimuli. Maybe start in an area with less stress so she can feel more confident. I think as you build up her confidence in small things, she will certainly tackle the larger things.

Do you have a neighbor who walks their dog who will let you and Shelby tag along? Believe me this worked with one of my "wild" girls who was feral when we got her - now she is much less "crazy" around other dogs and people.

I know Sas will be by shortly.
Terry

SasAndYunah

11-24-2012, 02:08 PM

Hi Tina,

I'm Saskia :) I know we don't really know each other but I have been on this board forever, or so it seems :) First with Boncuk (Cukie) my Cushdog who brought me here. After he passed away, I stayed around with Sogno, my Lagotto Romagnolo pup who I trained to become my service dog. When he passed away, I stayed around with Yunah, my service dog. And then when Yunah passed away, exactly 1 year and 1 day ago, I stayed around with Mhina, my new service dog. So you see, I have a long history here.

To be able to help you, if I can, I need some more info on Shelby. How is she with other people in your house, when you have friends or family visiting you? And how is she with other dogs in that same situation? In other words, is the behaviour you described only occuring in a store...or also in your own house, during walks, in the garden...etc?

For now I would advise you not to take Shelby to crowded (unfamiliar) places untill she is ready for it, you don't want to enforce the behaviour by repeating it. And if you prefere to talk about this in a more private setting, you can always PM me. Also when you have a urgent question, it may be best to PM me since I will get notified of a PM and am likely to see it quicker.

Don't worry, with some practise and exercise, Shelby will be okay :)

Saskia and Mhina :)

Tina

11-24-2012, 08:12 PM

Hi Saskia,

It is so nice to meet you! Thank you for posting on Shelby's thread. I know others suggested that I PM you but you responded before I had a chance to do that. :) I am so sorry to read about all the furbabies you have lost, and I am especially sorry to hear that it is the first anniversary of your beloved Yunah's passing. I know completely how difficult that is, and from what I have read, you and she had a very special bond. Hugs to you at this difficult time.

I don't know if you have followed along with my Jasper's journey at all, but I feel like I do know you a little bit, as I have read all that you have been through with Mhina. After having shed many tears, I was so happy to read just the other day that she is back home with you!! That was such wonderful news and you must be just beside yourself with joy.

I will try to answer your questions about Shelby. Let me first say that it was my mistake to take her to Petsmart. I just wasn't thinking right. This is where we had her puppy training class, and I took her there quite a few times after the class was over, and she had always done well. It had been a few months since we went, and I didn't think about the lapse. Even though she had done well before, I think it was just too much since she hadn't been consistently around that many new people or dogs.

When I have friends over to the house, she barks at first (the barking is one thing that I have been working on, it takes a lot of work with Schnauzers), and then is pretty standoffish for a few minutes, then she warms up to them. The same with my friends kids, but then she will play. I have not had a lot of people over on a regular basis since Jasper has been so sick, so this has not been consistent either. We have only had other dogs come over a couple of times. They were rambunctious dogs, and Shelby acted timid and kind of afraid, especially at first. She did get snippy with one of them, and growled a few times. I redirected her, but she was headstrong once she got growly. She can be very feisty.

Out in the yard, she will bark at my neighbors for a few minutes if they are out in their yard, but will stop with several redirections. My neighbor on one side has a big German Shepherd mix who barks aggressively at my dogs whenever they are all out at the same time, and will run the fence. I have a wood privacy fence thank goodness, but Shelby can still see him through the cracks. She gets very upset and barks aggressively also, and will lunge at the fence. I can't stand it when she does that, and do whatever I can to correct her and get her to stop. I can usually interrupt her and tell her to go to the other side of the yard, and she does follow that directive. But if the neighbor dog keeps it up, Shelby will run back over there. Sometimes I just need to bring her in. My neighbors make no effort to redirect their dog from this behavior.

I absolutely will not take her to any crowded place, or a place with other dogs until I can work with her more. I feel that she has regressed and lost what socialization she had gained a few months ago because we did not continue to work on it like I normally would have. I could tell she was afraid in the Petsmart. Once I saw this , and that she got snippy, I carried her and she was much calmer after I picked her up. Again, my fault. She had done so well in that setting in the past, it didn't occur to me that she would be afraid now. I just wasn't thinking.

Thank you so much for offering to help with my sweet little girl, and especially for taking the time to respond during this difficult time for you. I don't know how to thank you for your kindness. Please let me know if there is any other information that you would like.

Tina and Shelby :)

frijole

11-24-2012, 08:27 PM

Sas, PetSmart is a pet supply store here in the U.S. and you can take your dog inside of the store to shop. Wasn't sure if you were familiar with that so just wanted to clarify. :) Kim

Tina

11-24-2012, 10:00 PM

Debbie, Addy, Sharlene and Terry, thanks so much for your kind words. I tend to be quite hard on myself, so I appreciate all the support. And thank you for having Saskia look at my post. I have responded to her questions and am looking forward to what she has to say.

Hugs,

Tina and Shelby

Squirt's Mom

11-25-2012, 09:15 AM

Hi Tina,

Like the others have said, don't beat yourself up over Shelby. We can only do what we can do at any given time...and your plate has been certainly overfull with Jasper lately. I have no doubt that you will devote the time and needed attention to Shelby just as you have Jasper now that you are a bit less anxious over him nor do I doubt that she will respond to your directions.

In working with foster pups, I have had several that needed socialization to one degree or the other. Most of them were so terribly fearful of humans due to mistreatment in their pasts. :( I have a tiny Chihuahua now who fits this mode. She has been with us for about 3 months now and has come a long way, tho she still has a quite a way to go. I take her with me everywhere she is allowed to go. At first, I wouldn't allow her to get down but held her and let folks talk to her and pet her in my arms. As she became accepting of this attention, I would let her down on the floor / ground (leashed) to interact. Bless her heart, she would pee all over you when you picked her up and literally scream at the first sign of a hand moving her direction but she no longer does that. She still shakes like mad and cowers at times but no more screaming or peeing - and that is progress! ;)

There aren't many folks around who are comfortable in a house FULL of dogs :D but those that are I invite over often just to visit and expose her to company. Last weekend she jumped up in the lap of a friend for some lovin' all on her own for the first time! :cool::cool: We have now started going to the park and to visit folks who have other dogs. This is a fairly new exposure for her but she is doing very good with it, especially when we visit others - the park is still a bit scary when there are lots of folks running around, hollering and such but she is starting to enjoy her time there being a dog. She did really good when a couple of moms and their kids came up to talk to her last week. She was in my lap at first, shaking but accepting of the attention, then got down and let the kids pet her on the ground.

This is how I usually work with these pups - get them comfortable and responsive in a familiar, safe environment then slowly start exposing them to new things in that environment then expanding their safe environs. Making them feel safe at all times is paramount to me so slow and easy does it. Since Shelby has had some training and she has been always well loved, you should be able to get her back on track without a whole lot of headaches. Well, unless she is like a friend's mini Schnauzer who is just persnickety. :p

Hang in there, Mom! You are doing a fine job all around!
Hugs,
Leslie

SasAndYunah

11-25-2012, 03:50 PM

Hi Tina :)

Leslie already did a wonderful job explaining how to proceed :) It is like she said, you start at the beginning again. Start in a familiar surounding...at home. Invite someone over if you have the chance for the sole purpose of practising, followed of course by a cup of coffee...or something else :) Instruct that person beforehand on how te behave and when he/she arrives, focus on Shelby. What you could do, I have done this in the past, is keeping a bowl near your frontdoor with treats and ask (or write a note and stick it to the frontdoor, I did that too :D ) each visitor to please cooperate since you are training your dog. They can cooperate by getting a few treats before they enter the house and randomly drop them as they walk further along in your house. They should not look at Shelby and not talk to her...just walk to where ever it is they are heading, drop a treat here and there and that's it. In the meantime you focus on Shelby. So your doorbell rings, you walk up to the frontdoor and I assume Shelby will be there too. Ask her to sit before you open the door and praise her lots when she sits (voice and treats) Take your time, the person on the outside is aware of your training with Shelby, the advantage of letting people know beforehand :) Okay, Shelby sits and you open the door, the person says hello to you, you say hello to that person, shake hands, the usual things and the person walks to the livingroom. Not paying any attention to Shelby, only dropping a few treats on the way to the living room :) Shelby will get the message...:Ohhh goody, visitors are fun, they come bearing treats" :D If Shelby behaves all the time, from the person entering the front door till he/she sits down in the livingroom, you keep praising her and even toss a few more treats her way. Just keep talking positive to her...good girl, you're so clever, etc. If Shelby doesn't "behave" for example barks at the visitor, you call her over to you (no harsh voice, no "No Shelby...stop barking".. just a friendly "Shelby, here girl"...) and make her sit again. The moment she sits, praise and reward her. You could then put her on her leash and walk her passed the visitor several times, while all the time rewarding Shelby for not barking, etc. (visitor still ignores Shelby) The leash is to prevent her from barking or chasing at the visitor again, that way you can control her behaviour more. And the less chance she has to show the undesired behaviour, the sooner you can get rid of it :)

Once Shelby is fine with the visitor being there, you let Shelby discover that person at her own pace...she may come up and have a quick smell and turn away again, she may walk up to that person ans ask for a cuddle...whatever she does, make sure it is in her own time. Once Shelby is ready to have contact with the visitor, that person can pet Shelby, briefly...underneath her chin, the least threatening way for a dog and give her a treat. But they still should not look at or talk to Shelby.

And this is how you proceed. First in the house, next in the backyard, later on the street and more later in stores and other places. You built her selfesteem slowly...by not putting her in situations that are too much too soon for her.

And with her having been to puppyclass and being good around people and other dogs, it shouldn't take too long before Shelby will be at ease again.

Good luck and if something is not clear, please let me know and I'll try to explain it more clearly.

Sas and Mhina :)

Tina

11-27-2012, 10:59 PM

Leslie and Sas, thank you for all of the information and suggestions! Sas, I appreciate you spelling things out step by step. I have already talked to one of my friends about doing some practicing on the weekend.

She reminded me that the first time she came to see Shelby, (I think it was the day after I brought her home), that Shelby was pretty fearful at first and had even cried out in fear and peed when my friend slowly reached out to pet her for the first time. I had never had that happen with any of my other dogs, and I remember being upset over it at the time. But it never happened again and I had forgotten all about it. And I remember that Shelby was quite timid at first in the puppy class also. So maybe she has the tendency to be this way, especially since I have not worked with her like I should have since the class ended. She was much better after the class, but still not what I would have called totally comfortable around other people or dogs.

I have been practicing calling her to me , having her sit, and then rewarding her with a treat when she is barking out in the yard, and she seems to be responding well to this. It doesn't work every time, but it is getting better.

She does seem persnickety as Leslie said, but is also somewhat unsure of herself and seems to lack confidence at the same time, especially if other people or dogs are around. It's hard to explain, she is feisty and timid at the same time. I think it is like you said, we need to slowly build her self esteem.

I will be working on the things you have outlined and will let you know how it is going. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me and my baby girl.

Hugs to you and Mhina,

Tina and Shelby (and my cushpup Jasper) :)

frijole

11-27-2012, 11:08 PM

When you said feisty and timid at the same time you reminded me of my Annie. I rescued her at the age of one and she soooo wanted to be the alpha dog but Haley was almost two years older and wasn't going to allow that. She did the exact same thing. It took me about a year but she came around and my neighbors couldn't believe it was the same 'messed up' dog. Shelby will be just fine with you as mom - no doubt about it. Kim

SasAndYunah

11-28-2012, 02:59 AM

Hi Tina,

with the memories of your friend, it's pretty clear, Shelby is mainly very insecure and it is your "task" to "protect" her boundaries. Hands reached out to her, are crossing Shelby's boundaries and therefore that's something you need to prevent people from doing that :) Like I said, people should not look at, talk too or reach toward Shelby...that's pretty important. Right now, those things are too direct for Shelby...but let your friend use the treats abbundantly :) And, it's very important that Shelby gets the chance to "meet" people at her own speed. Even if she doesn't want to "meet" them for now, that's alright. And one other thing, when your friend enters the frontdoor and walks to the livingroom...sits down...during all that time, talk positive to Shelby. What we say, affects our tone of voice. You could for example say: " Ohhh Shelby, I know how scary this is, a strange person coming to visit, you poor thing , but the lady won't hurt you, no, she won't...bla bla bla" If you talk to her with these kinds of words, you're voice will sound like you are confirming her fears, her insecurity. But, if you say something like: "Now look Shelby, isn't that nice that we have a visitor and oooh look, she is dropping treats everywhere, how exiting is that? That's fun isn't it when visitors come and drop treats everywhere?...bla bla bla" you're voice will sound uplifting and convident and that will help Shelby feel less insecure. So talk and let Shelby know how fun it is :)

One other thing :) You mentioned calling her to you and make her sit and then reward her... This is a very very common "mistake" people make. You call the dog over (dog is coming), then you have the dog sit (dog sits) and you reward...what are you rewarding at that time? Exactly, the sitting :)

If you want a reliable recall...there are 2 things very important. First, you reward the recall (the dog comes to you, you reward)...so you don't make them do anything else after they came. You can make them sit as well, but then you have to reward both. First the recall (dog comes, you reward) and then you ask the dog to sit (dog sits, you reward again) But especially in the beginning, I would not make them do anything else..the fact they come when called, is the most important thing, who cares if they sit as well. The important thing is that they do come when called :)
The second important thing for a reliable recall is to never use the recall for something the dog doesn't like. For example, Shelby needs a bath and she doesn't like that. She is playing in the yard and you call her to you...she comes, you reward and then pick her up and bring her to the bathroom for her bath. She will start connecting coming to you with "bad things" happening and she is more likely not to come the next time you call her over. A reliable recall can save her life one day...and is therefore one of the most, if not the most important comand. And in order to make and keep the recall reliable. only use it in positive ways, never "connect" a recall with something negative. If she needs a bath (just as an example of a situation she may not like) and she is in the garden playing, simply walk over to her and pick her up...but never use a recall for it :)

All our best,

Sas and Mhina :)

Tina

12-09-2012, 05:30 PM

Hi Sas,

A very belated thank you for all of the additional information and suggestions on how to work with Shelby. I had a friend come over last weekend to practice your teachings, I will need to sign on later to tell you all about how that went. I wanted to post something quick this afternoon so you would know that I am working on things with Shelby, even though I have been a bit too busy to post everything! :)

I also want to clarify a little about what I posted earlier about rewarding her when she comes to me and having her sit. I mainly started the calling her and rewarding her with a treat out in the yard to interrupt her barking at the neighbor dog, rather than saying "no barking Shelby", or "Shelby stop barking", like you suggested. It has been working much better. At times she would automatically sit when she came to me (I had worked with her previously on this), other times I would wait for her to sit before I rewarded her. I have changed this according to how you recommend, and reward her immediately when she comes. Of course this makes sense, thank you for explaining it so clearly. :) I have also started giving her just a small piece of a treat if she comes in the house when I call her in, and this has also been going much better. I have her coming in almost every time I call her now, we will continue to work on this.

I will be on later today if I can, or tomorrow after work to let you know how she was when my friend visited. I live alone and don't have any family in town. I will need my friends to help with this when they are able, so unfortunately it will not be as frequent as I would like. I hope you and Mhina are doing well.

Tina and Shelby

molly muffin

12-09-2012, 06:31 PM

That is awesome Tina. Sounds like you are really get back on track with Shelby. It's great that Jasper is now in a place where you can divide your attention between the two of them as you normally would. It's so hard when you have one that isn't well and you have focus on that.
I think this was just a tiny set back on the training aspect and now you are back on track, things should go along more smoothly.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Tina

12-25-2012, 04:47 PM

Oh my gosh, I am finally getting back here to give an update on how things are going with Shelby. I have had 2 opportunities for a friend to come over and practice with her. Both times we did it the same way according to the suggestions provided by Sas. My friend dropped treats as she entered the house and came up to the living room. No talking or eye contact with Shelby, she ignored her, and just had her conversation with me. Shelby barked quite a bit so I kept her on the leash walking her back and forth until that settled and she was able to lay down, she chose to lay on the floor a few feet from my friend. I talked positive her to redirect the barking and also rewarded her when she stopped. Once she was quiet and laying on the floor, I removed the leash.

Sometimes she would start grumbling or even bark once or twice if my friend moved around, but I interrupted her and rewarded when she stopped. My friend and I kept talking, my friend was not looking at her, and she came over and sniffed at my friends hand. I think she was looking for a treat. The next time she approached, my friend had a treat in her hand and Shelby took it. At one point she stood up and put a paw on my friends leg as she took the treat. My friend still did not talk to her, but briefly scratched her under the chin after she took the treat because she stayed right there. This was on the second visit, and that is as far as we got. She was a little more outgoing the second time, but still a long way to go. I wish I had more opportunities to work on this, I am hoping after the holidays my friends will have a bit more time.

There were also 2 occasions where I had an HVAC contractor and someone from the cable company come in to do some maintenance in my home. I talked briefly to both of them about what I was working on with Shelby, and while they were working, I brought Shelby near just so she could see that there were strangers in the house. I asked them to not look at or talk to her, but just to let her see or sniff them. She barked quite a bit at first of course, but then stopped with me interrupting and talking positive to her, and approached them to take some sniffs. They were both great and just continued to work without paying any attention to her. So that was a little more exposure.

She is now coming in from outside when I call her pretty much every time, so I feel like that is going well. I am hoping we have a good start with the rest of it.

Sas, please feel free to provide feedback, further suggestions and/or corrections. I appreciate your help so much.

Shelby's first Birthday is tomorrow, she was born in the wee hours of the morning after Christmas Night. So we are enjoying her last day of being 11 months old on this Christmas Day. I hope everyone and their pups are having a wonderful holiday.

Hugs,

Tina and Shelby

molly muffin

12-25-2012, 06:14 PM

It sounds like some excellent progress Tina. I'm sure as time goes on and you have more opportunities to do further work with her, that Shelby will be fine.
Good job mom!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Tina

12-26-2012, 11:35 AM

Thanks Sharlene! We have quite a ways to go, but we will continue to work on it.

Well today is my Baby's first Birthday, it is hard to believe she is a year old already. I don't know why but I always feel that their first birthday is so special. I have taken the day off from work to be able to enjoy it with her and Jasper. Although she doesn't really know that this is the reason why I am home, I know.

We are going to bake her Birthday cake in a bit and even though they both got so many toys for Christmas, I have a special toy for her for her special day. I am praying I can get some pictures, but both she and Jasper seem to have become afraid of the sounds that my camera, phone, and iPad make when snapping a picture, so they slink off and hide any time I point it their way. So frustrating, I have hardly any pics of Shelby since she was very tiny, and none of Shelby and Jasper together. Ugh!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Happy First Birthday my Sweet Baby Shelby!!!!

Love,

Mom

molly muffin

12-26-2012, 11:45 AM

Happy Birthday Shelby

Of course you want to celebrate her first birthday! Now just sit pretty for your momma Shelby and Jasper!

From Molly and Sharlene

addy

12-27-2012, 11:17 AM

Dang, I missed Shelby's birthday. A Chrsitmas pup, doesn't get any better than that:D:D:D

Happy Birthday Shelby

Sorry we are a bit late with the wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so glad Sas has given you tips and they are working for you. Way to go.

SasAndYunah

12-27-2012, 04:10 PM

First of all, very very happy birthday, Shelby :D I know, it's late but it's still well meant :)

Secondly, Tina...congrats to you as well for all the excellent work you have done with Shelby! :) I was especially proud how you took advantage of the contractors and such...taking every opportunity to socialise Shelby :D

You're doing well, not much I have to add except that I wondered if you gave the workmen some treats they could drop on the floor when Shelby was calm (not barking)? What you could do is always make sure you have a handful(pocketful) of treats (or just plain kibble) and the moment she stops barking (without you saying so) drop the kibble on the floor. If she's clever, and I am sure she is, she will understand very soon that not barking will provide her with some yummie benefits :D

The "problem" with barking is that whenever humans start saying "no, quiet" or whatever it is they are saying, the dog will see the talking as a confirmation of his barking, after all, the human is "barking" as well :D Especially since many people will start to raise their voice..if the dog continues to bark...to the dog that is barking too. So rather then to teach the dog to -stop barking- it's more efficient to teach the dog to be quiet :) After all, when you tell a dog to not bark....what we want is that the dog is quiet. But that, we don't teach. We forget to tell the dog what we want instead... :) So the trick is not to stop the old behaviour but to replace it with other behaviour. It's easier to learn something new then to try and stop already existing behaviour. I'm not sure if what I am saying is making sense in English...in Dutch it would, hehehe...but then again, you wouldn't understand that. So, reward Shelby when she stops barking (not caused by any cue from you..but all by herself) by dropping treats/kibble on the floor. When she seems to understand the procedure, you can add a command to her being quiet. That way she will learn a command to be quiet... If people say "quiet" for example to their barking dog, they only tell the dog not to bark but they don't tell the dog what they want instead. It's like when you want the dog to sit bit he's standing instead...and you say to the dog "don't stand"... The dog has no clue what you want instead. With barking it's the same problem. People are focusing too much on what they don't want instead of what they do want :) And if you focus on what you do want, there's much more oppertunity to praise and reward the dog...instead of "scolding" him for doing what you don't want him to do. So if Shelby barks...wait till she stops barking and drop treats on the floor..plenty at first. The reward has to be really worth it ;)

All our best,

Saskia and Mhina :)

Tina

05-16-2013, 09:59 PM

Hi Guys,
Just a quick update on Shelby. I took her in for her yearly wellness checkup at the end of April. The vet discovered that she has retained one of her baby teeth, a molar in the back. :eek: I had no idea it was there. My vet said it has to come out sooner rather than later because it has interfered with the placement of the permanent tooth as it has come in, and is also interfering with her bite. Not to mention that it will cause increased plaque build up and gingivitis. It is in there tight, not loose a bit, of course. She has to have surgery to have it extracted, with full anesthesia. The procedure is scheduled for tomorrow morning, I have to drop her off bright and early before work. Yes, in case anyone was wondering, I guess I need a little more stress. :rolleyes:

I have been telling myself that it is probably a simple procedure and everything will be alright. But now that it is the night before, the worry is starting up. I guess I just always worry whenever anesthesia is involved.

We have continued to work on her behavior issues, I will update on that later. Right now I just want to ask for everyone's prayers for tomorrow. Thanks so much.

Tina

Trixie

05-16-2013, 10:32 PM

Hoping for a quick and easy procedure for Shelby tomorrow!! I'm sure everything will go just fine but I know that "night before" stress and worry that can easily overtake rational thinking. Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way and will be looking forward to your post tomorrow saying that everything went perfectly!!
Barbara

Harley PoMMom

05-17-2013, 12:45 AM

Tons and tons of prayers being said and sent for you and sweet Shelby. Lots of soothing, loving, and huge hugs coming your way too. Let us know as soon as you can!

molly muffin

05-17-2013, 09:31 AM

Oh Tina, right there with you. Much positive love and healing thoughts/prayers being sent you and Shelby's way.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Squirt's Mom

05-17-2013, 09:47 AM

With you all the way, Tina! Let us know when you can how things went! Prayers and healing white light flying your way.

Tina

05-18-2013, 02:50 AM

Barbara, Lori, Sharlene and Leslie, thank you so much for keeping Shelby in your thoughts today! She did just find with the tooth extraction. She was still a little groggy for a short while after getting her home and has been mostly sleeping this evening. I fell asleep on the couch for a couple of hours tonight with her, hence the late post. :o :rolleyes:

The surgeon said that she didn't anticipate that Shelby will have much of a problem chewing. I have fed her 2 small meals throughout the evening mixed with a little water. She ate it right down, with little to no chewing. :eek: She was so hungry. They sent her home with Carprofen 75 mg 1/4 tab twice a day as needed for pain. I haven't gave her any yet, I went on line and checked the potential side effects and was a little leery.

Before Jasper's illness, I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought, but now I research everything. She really doesn't seem to be having much pain, so I think I will hold off. I wanted to make sure she kept food and water down, and she is sleeping now. Any thoughts on whether I should give it? Maybe I will see how she is in the morning. Kind if hard to tell if her mouth is bothering her or not, the surgeon said she didn't think it would bother her too much. But I also don't want her to be in pain.

Thanks again for thinking of my little girl.

Hugs,
Tina and Shelby

Harley PoMMom

05-18-2013, 03:16 AM

So happy Shelby is home and doing so well!! YAAA!!!!!!!

Regarding the pain meds; our furbabies can be really stoic, so with that said, I would probably give her some, but only you know Shelby best and she sure is in very loving hands.

Sending healing and loving hugs, Lori

Squirt's Mom

05-18-2013, 08:02 AM

So glad Shelby is home and eating! :) I hope today is even better and she is soon bouncing all over the place!

molly muffin

05-18-2013, 11:15 AM

Yay Shelby! Hopefully this will heal quickly and you'll be able to get back to some normal sleep hours.
You're right, going through what you have with Jasper really makes you aware of all the possibilities out there.
Hugs, as always, you're doing great!
belly rubs to shelby

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Trish

05-19-2013, 04:21 AM

Yay, glad to hear Shelby flew through her dental work! Hope her little mouth is feeling ok and she is healing well! xxx

Tina

05-19-2013, 04:43 AM

Thanks so much guys! She is doing pretty well. She ate both meals today no problem and seems to be feeling fine. I looked in her mouth and all I can see is a small indented area on her gum where the tooth used to be. No sutures. The surgeon said there would be a small hole but that it would close quickly. Must be, it looks pretty good now, and just a bit of swelling and the indenting. Yay!! :)

When she was seen for her wellness check, I filled the vet in about my ongoing concerns with Shelby's behavior [not socialized well, fearful, unfriendly, territorial aggression at the fence towards the dogs next door (this is severe in my opinion)]. They have a vet tech who is a behavioral specialist in the office and my vet felt a referral was needed. He called a couple of weeks ago and we had a detailed conversation about all of Shelby's behavior issues. After listening to everything, he felt it was too severe to be managed with instructions over the phone and suggested we schedule a session for him to come out and work with Shelby (and me). We have an appt after work on 5/22.

I am looking forward to this as I really feel I need some hands on help. It is expensive, but I will figure it out somehow. I feel that Shelby deserves it, and deserves the opportunity to become more well adjusted. I am hopeful that I learn a lot, as I am sure that a key part will actually be training me, maybe even more than Shelby!

I will keep you guys posted.

Hugs,
Tina and Shelby