Newbie here with questions - Dudley has peacefully passed

[gabelle1995]

Hi. I have a 13.5 year old Beagle, Dudley. He was diagnosed with Cushing's almost a year ago and the vet put him on Vetoryl to control it. He had been fine until about 3 weeks ago when we noticed he was drinking more water again. We took him to the vet last Thursday and he ran a CBC, checked thyroid (he's hypothyroid too), cortisol and did ACTH. Everything came back normal. But today, 4 days after all of these tests, he had a seizure. He's never had a seizure that I've ever seen before in his life. He was conscious the whole time but drooling, couldn't stand up, "shivering" and he peed on himself. It lasted about 1 minute. Then he could stand up again although his gait is a little halted now. He also wasn't so interested in food for a few hours but now seems to be a bit more back to his beagle self.

My question is could the ACTH stimulation test have triggered this seizure? Could it be the Vetoryl? Or is it as I fear that he has a growing pituitary tumor? I am sick with fear.

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[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

I am glad you found your way here. Maybe we should back up a little, do you have the results of his

ACTH test? There should be a pre and a post number. What dose is Dudley on and what is his weight?

As for the seizures, we have quite a few members with pups who have had seizures. I cant think of anything I have read that states that is a side effect of Vetoryl but perhaps someone else will have input.

We all worry about macro tumors, it is a quiet fear we all hold in our hearts and sometimes are afraid to say out loud.

We are here for you and will help however we can. Others will be along soon so hang in there. Hopefully we can help to get to the bottom of things for you and Dudley.

[frijole]

Glad you found us - you might know by now that we ask alot of questions so that we can be sure we are giving you the best possible advice.

What dose of vetoryl are you giving and how much does your dog weigh?

Please post the acth test results so we can see what "normal" is. Also if you have the previous acth test results so we can see if there has been a change.

Regarding the seizure - cush dogs do have them but it does NOT mean there is a growing tumor. My dog Haley had them a couple of times - she lived with cushings for 4 1/2 yrs and passed of old age at 16 1/2. They are frightening occurences but they pass quickly. Keep a log each time it happens along with the duration so you can refer to it if needed.

Kim

[gabelle1995]

Hi Addy. Thanks for your quick reply. I don't have the exact numbers for his ACTH and bloodwork last Thurs. The only thing the vet said in connection with these tests was that, if anything, his "level" was in the low end and usually the dog would present with loss of appetite. And i don't even know what "level" it was the vet was referring to. I can try to get the numbers from the vet tomorrow for all of the tests. But I assume he must mean that it is closer to Addison's than Cushings? :confused:

Dudley weighs 16.5 kg and is on 60mg of Vetoryl once a day. From what I am reading on others posts, this sounds high. The vet did not check for presence of a pituitary tumor when he was diagnosed. So the tumor is just a guess based on what I've read.

It's been a number of hours now since the seizure and we've been with him constantly. He's acting more like himself, just really tired and thirsty. We'll see how he does tomorrow.

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: Your posts have been manually approved so that members can start responding to you. Please check your email for a message from k9cushings. You will need to reply to that email so that your post go directly to the board and are not delayed waiting for approval. If you have already received and responded to the confirmatory email, please be patient. Your registration will be finalized shortly. Thanks and welcome!

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome. It does seem high but he's been on it for a year? we have had members whose dogs respond better to a higher dose, and also members who dogs are so sensitive to the medicine that they can only have small dosage levels. It depends on what the actual ACTH number is as to where he is on his cortisol levels. It's hard to tell anything without knowing those.
Seisures do seem to be one of the possibilities with cushings and we have had several members who have experienced them, many, or even most do not seem to be connected to a macro tumor, but often to other issues in the bodies. Sometimes thyroid, etc. It would be good to have a copy of all the rest results. Maybe your doctor could make a copy for you going back a couple years so you will be able to see the before and after. Just let them know that with the things going on, you'll want to have that on hand for yourself and also in case you ever have to go to a Vet ER in the night.

Just keep an eye on him, but hopefully after the seizure, which scare them and you a great deal., everything will be back to normal.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'll ask for those numbers today and post them here when I get them. Yes, he's been on the 60 mg dosage since he was diagnosed and we haven't had a problem until now. :(

After a night's sleep he seems more like himself and even attempted to do his food "dance" at breakfast. But then he wasn't so interested when I put the food in the bowl. I had to hand feed him half of it before he would eat from the bowl.

I'm glad to hear that the seizures usually aren't a tumor growing.

[gabelle1995]

Here are Dudley's latest test results. We live in Denmark so the unit of measurement may be different. I hope this makes sense.

CORT 1 14 mmol/L (No range given)
CORT 2 69 mmol/L (No range given)

RBC 6.61 (5.66 - 8.87)
HCT 45.3% (37.3 - 61.7)
HGB 15.6 g/dL (13.1 - 20.5)
MCV 68.5 fL (61.6 - 73.5)
MCH 23.6 pg (21.2 - 25.9)
MCHC 34.4 g/dL (32 - 37.9)
RDW 18.7% (13.6 - 21.7)
%RETIC 0.6 (No range given)
WBC 6.88 (5.05 - 16.76)
%NEU 73.7 (No range given)
%LYM 12.6 (No range given)
%MONO 9.2 (No range given)
%EOS 3.9 (No range given)
%BASO 0.6 (No range given)
NEU 5.07 (2.95 - 11.64)
LYM 0.87 (1.05 - 5.1) *
MONO 0.63 (0.16 - 1.12)
EOS 0.27 (0.06 - 1.23)
BASO 0.04 (0 - 0.1)
PLT 380 K/?L (148 - 484)
MPV 10.2 fL (8.7 - 13.2)
PDW 13.2 fL (9.1 - 19.4)
PCT 0.39% (0.14 - 0.46)
GLU 4.95 mmol/L (3.89 - 7.95)
UREA 7.3 mmol/L (2.5 - 9.6)
CREA 76 mmol/L (44 - 159)
BUN/CREA 22 (No range given)
CA 3 mmol/L (1.98 - 3)
TP 58 g/L (52 - 82)
ALB 32 g/L (22 - 39)
GLOB 26 g/L (25 - 45)
ALB/GLOB 1.2 (No range given)
ALT 66 U/L (10 - 100)
ALKP 132 U/L (23 - 212)

TT4 34 mmol/L (No range given)

* indicates outside of normal range

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin',

Thanks for the results! Now I'm gonna bug you and ask that you edit the post to add the normal ranges for each of those values. Different labs use different norms so it helps if we can see the ranges they use.

Thanks!
Leslie and the gang

[gabelle1995]

Hi. I added the ranges where they were given. The vet also said that if anything his CORT was a little low. So he was expecting that Dudley might be refusing food. But he hasn't been. Still though, we were thinking if we should ask the vet if we can lower his Vetoryl dosage or go to every other day.

[molly muffin]

okay to convert to what those in the US are more use to seeing,
Cort 1 - .5074
Cort 2 - 1.835

So, definitely not on the high side of cortisol levels. (you get the US ug level by dividing by 27.59)
I don't know what the LYM is or should be. We do have members that are very experienced with the numbers and testing though, so hopefully they'll be by to give their input. I'm not sure who will or will not be around this week and weekend, as this is Thanksgiving in the States. I'm sure some will be though.

Was the test done after giving Dudly the daily dose, within 4 - 6 hours, so that the results are optimal for accuracy?

Sharlene

[gabelle1995]

Thanks Molly. Yes, the test was done after his daily dose. We give that to him around 6 a.m. and I know the vet waits until at least 10 a.m. to do the test.

LYM is lymphocytes. I had to look it up too. :-) But I don't know what it means that it's low.

I knew that it was Thanksgiving this week - my family back home has been describing all of the wonderful things they'll be eating. :D So I'll wish everyone here a happy turkey day and I look forward to your responses to Dudley's test results when you get time.

[Harley PoMMom]

I think that Dudley's CBC/Chemistry test results look pretty good but I am a bit concerned with his ACTH stim results. Although his post result does fall within the therapeutic range it could continue to drop and quite frankly I am also worried with his pre being so low. If this were me, I would lower Dudley's dose of Vetoryl from 60mg to 40mg and see if he starts to feel better, then have another ACTH stim test done 10-14 days after the dose change.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[gabelle1995]

Thanks. We're going to try lowering his dosage to see if that helps. It isn't easy here. Vetoryl is only available in 120, 60, and 30 mgs. But my husband and I did some math that if we give one tablet for 2 days then withhold on the 3rd day that it averages out to 40 mg per day. But maybe this method will cause more problems than it helps. Does anyone have any advice about taking this approach to lowering his dosage?

[gabelle1995]

Actually, I just checked and we can also get 10 mg capsules. So maybe we should give him a 30 and a 10 to get to the 40. He doesn't mind taking pills - we wrap them in a little piece of bread. :D

[molly muffin]

Hi :)

You aren't looking to average out with Trilostane. The key with this drug is keeping an even amount in the body, so it is stable throughout the day and the cortisol doesn't start to rise. Missing even one day, doesn't work, because by then, it's starting to leave the body and you are getting a rise again. (unless it's dropped too low and then it's a whole other ballgame). Anyway, maybe you are thinking of how one medicates with lysoderm, which is a maintenance dose after loading, but that isn't how Trilostane works.
So, rather to do the 30 and 10 than trying to average it.
Another thought, is do they have compounding pharmacies there for vet medicine? You could get a compounded pill of 40.
I hope I explained that right. :)
Dudley looks so happy and definitely smiling! Cute. :)

Sharlene and the Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Actually, I just checked and we can also get 10 mg capsules. So maybe we should give him a 30 and a 10 to get to the 40. He doesn't mind taking pills - we wrap them in a little piece of bread. :D

If you do decide to give 40mg once a day, than I believe that using the 30mg and 10mg pills together will be fine.

[gabelle1995]

Thanks for the explanation about how Vetoryl works. I wasn't sure about it so now I know. :) I think we'll end up going with the two pills. Not cheap but we don't have compounding pharmacies over here. I even checked to see if I could get 40mg capsules in Germany or the UK. But I think the distributor over here only sells those 4 strengths.

I think Dudley is smiling too. This picture was taken only 4 months ago.

[gabelle1995]

I'm just curious if any others here have pet insurance and what/how much your pet insurance has covered as regards the testing involved with diagnosing and controlling Cushings.

We have VPI for Dudley and they covered quite a bit of the initial testing but not so much of the control tests.

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about pet insurance into Dudley’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[maggiesmom]

I have Pet Plan insurance. They have been very good about covering other things. I haven't yet submitted any of the Cushings related testing but I hope to get all the paperwork completed and sent in next weekend. I will let you know what they cover.

[gabelle1995]

I'm getting ready to send in another claim on Dudley's insurance. When Dudley was in for his recent ACTH and blood tests we had the vet look at a skin tag behind his ear. The vet took a small biopsy and had a look under the microscope at it and didn't like what he saw. So we had it and another skin tag removed today. He did beautifully with the surgery. :-) You'd never know he was 13.5! But the vet said that with his good blood test numbers that he should tolerate the anesthesia reasonably well. (We also got his teeth cleaned while he was under - might as well minimize the number of times they have to put him under.) They will send off both skin tags for further analysis and when he goes back for stitch removal we'll get the results. So I'm hoping VPI will cover the "tumor" removal. We'll see. My experience so far is that once they pay on a certain type of diagnosis and test once that they don't pay again on it.

[gabelle1995]

One think I will say is positive about VPI though is that when we moved to Denmark, it wasn't a problem. The policy I got for Dudley specifically states that it covers any vet in the world. I don't know if they do policies like that anymore and it probably isn't relevant for everyone but for me it has been a lifesaver! I could not have gotten Dudley insured in Denmark because of his age when we moved here. So with that in mind, I guess that any amount they cover is better than the alternative.

[molly muffin]

That is really wonderful that they covered world wide! It is hard to get anything covered if you don't have insurance already with older dogs and they don't even usually want to hear about Preexisting conditions :(
Based upon that, we out up the creek without a paddle and I'll just keep on working for molly's benefit. :)
I know I'm working for a good cause at least!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

We went to the vet on Thursday to get stitches out. Both of the places removed from Dudley were benign. He did not enjoy having to hold still to get the stitches clipped out. :) But felt better when treats were offered afterwards.

We were just out running in the snow this morning. It's amazing how much he loves snow. He can't run as much as he used to but he still loves it.

[molly muffin]

Glad to hear the results were benign. Yay for happy news. :)

Dogs and snow. I think they think it falls just for them! :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Just checked online with insurance and they paid about 50% of the costs for removing those two small tumors. Not too bad, all things considered.

Dudley is doing awesome! Fully recovered from the surgery now. His coat that he had blown is growing back in nice and full and soft. And he's running around wanting to play and be naughty. So I take that as a sign he's feeling pretty good. :D He's still drinking a lot of water but so am I - I think it's due to the very low humidity in our house.

Merry Christmas to you all!

[molly muffin]

Merry Christmas indeed and that is very good news!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

I'm curious if any UK or EU residents reading this have any experience ordering prescriptions with Viovet in the UK. If you do, please tell me if it has been positive or negative. I've just ordered Dudley's thyroid medicine from there (because it is no longer being sold here in Denmark). It seems like it is going quite well but I'd be curious to hear if others have experience with them.

This is the third or fourth time that the medicine has stopped being sold in Denmark. It means he has to go on the human form of the medicine - basically the same as what I take, just a much higher dose. So it means that a bottle of pills lasts no time. Very irritating.

[milosmom]

we too have vpi for our babies.let me state that they do cover specific testings and procedures. but take note on the year anniversary it is all new again
we just went thru this with our milo his insurance renewed on 12/11/12....and on 12/17/12 he passed and most everything was covered....we have had many aphone call to this company and have had them for more than 20 years...so happy to read that they followed you to denmark.wishing you much health and happiness with your dudley !!! (btw our second doxie was named dudley :) ) patty (milo)meka xoxox

[gabelle1995]

Hi Patty. That's reassuring to read that you've had VPI so many years and been happy with Them. :-) I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks so i'm just catching up ón the forums here. I was so sad to read about Milo's passing. Reading your post about it made me cry. I wish you peace and comfort.

[gabelle1995]

Just wanted to post an update about our experience with VioVet in the UK for Dudley's medicine. It worked beautifully! I created a profile and uploaded his prescription. (I put a post it note on there with translations about dosage, etc. and that was not a problem.) I could see the same day I set all of that up that they began processing it and shipped it! Because it had to come via international mail, we got it a week later. But for us the savings was huge! It cost 50% less than what we normally pay for Dudley's thyroid meds.

So now we're considering doing the same for his Vetoryl. I like the idea of automatic refill so I don't have to drive to the pharmacy every time to pick up the medicine. (Here it is the pharmacy that dispenses both human and animal medicines.) The savings on the Vetoryl isn't as big but hey - 10 bucks is 10 bucks. :-)

[addy]

Thats great news it worked for you and hey, every little bit helps but 50% is a huge savings.:D:D:D:D:D

[molly muffin]

That is wonderful news!
Now thanks to your wonderful update, we have a recommended pharmacy, VioVet to use in Europe.

Cheers!
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

So I think Dudley might have a bladder infection. He's drinking lots of water (and eating snow when he's out). And he wants to go out to pee every 5 to 10 minutes. But when he pees it's not the big, long "I'm a Cushings dog" pee. Just little tiny amounts. Otherwise, he seems fine. Hungry, playful, alert. Just needs to pee often. Any thoughts?

[addy]

Sounds like a possible UTI. Is he prone to any kind of bladder stones or crystals?

Always something with our babies. Off to the vet I am afraid you must go. Zoe is starting antibiotics too this week for a possible UTI.

I am glad to hear Dudley feels well otherwise.:):):)

[molly muffin]

Oh, is it UTI week?
I don't like those ones. Think we'll try to just sit this one out. :)

Yep, culture it if his urine is dilute otherwise they might not be able to tell if a UTI or not.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Thanks addy and molly muffin for your replies. No, Dudley's never had a UTI before. But there's a first time for everything. And thank goodness it's easily treatable.

I just realized today that it's been over a year since Dudley's cushings diagnosis. :-) And he's still going pretty strong. :-) Yay!

[addy]

That's a reason to celebrate, over a year is a milestone for sure:):)

Hope it is a UTI and some anitbiotics have Dudley feeling better soon.

[milosmom]

just checking in on dudley and yourself,so happy to see" so far so good' looking forward to the next few days to see your litl one is doing fine...xoxox patty (milo)meka

[gabelle1995]

We're hanging in there over here. I notice that Dudley gets more energetic as we head towards spring. Generally, he has mostly good days. I think today he's having a bad one. He's just lethargic and wanting to sleep a lot. But hey, I have those kinds of days too. And I'm nowhere near as old as he is. ;) But as long as the good outnumber the bad, I won't complain.

A couple of weeks ago we took Dudley for acupressure and acupuncture treatment at the specialist who has treated him before when he had a herniated disc in his neck. For a couple of days after that treatment he is always a bit stiff. But then he just seems so much more energetic afterwards. I also think it helps with that hindquarter weakness cush dogs have, or at least it seems to help Dudley.

[gabelle1995]

So when I got home Dudley had apparently had a really, really good snooze today and was his usual energetic self again. So maybe he just didn't sleep well last night. ;) Anyway, he had a good chew on his bone and is now following my husband around the kitchen because he's making bread...Dudley's favorite dish. :D

[molly muffin]

Sounds like Dudley is doing pretty well I love it when they want to play and be energetic.
Well, I'd follow your husband around if he is making bread too. Dudley's no dummy. There is nothing like hot bread out of the oven. *sigh* Now I'm hungry!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Oooooooh, fresh bread!!!! Nothin smells better than that! :) :)

So glad to get this update and to know that Dudley is feeling better!

Marianne

[Trish]

Ha I just put a bun in the oven when I read that!! Mmmm hot bread :D Glad to hear Dudley had a good night :D:D

[Boriss McCall]

yum.. Trish for a second my mind was going with you are pregnant. bun in the oven.. :D:p

[Trish]

Haha perhaps I should have gone with hot roll (which I am eating right now!).... yum

[molly muffin]

Oh fine you guys. :D:D I guess I can make biscuits to go with shepherds pie tonight. :p

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. Just an update from me and Dudley. This week seems to be shedding week. Dudley's blowing his coat, even though it's still a little early for him to do that. Thank goodness for the Furminator! Otherwise, he's pretty tired, but that's because I've been home for the last week. So he's compelled to follow me around, which means not so much time for him to catch up on sleep.

We had noticed that when Dudley is standing still eating his dinner or drinking water that his back legs start to sink. Sometimes he ends up sitting down. But we noticed that when Dudley is at my in-laws' house (where the bowls are raised) that he doesn't sink so much. So we've tried raising his bowls this week. That seems to help.

He's happily chewing on his bone right now at my feet though. So life must be pretty good! :)

[addy]

We had to raise Zoe's bowl as well and put a runner in front of it over the hardwood for her to stand on.

She east much more easily now!!!


Awww, those Cush pups of ours:):):)

[molly muffin]

Dudley sounds like he's doing pretty good, got the bone at your feet so he's probably pretty happy. LOL
I've noticed that many on the forum have adjusted to the higher bowls for their dogs. It just makes it so much easier I think for them to eat and remain steady.
hmm, although mine might decide to lay down to eat just because she can. She never stands to eat, always sits. I would probably be worried if I saw her standing. Now I'm trying to remember if she ever did stand, even as a youngster. hmm..

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

We were actually considering putting a runner by Dudley's bed in our bedroom. He sometimes has trouble at night lifting those back legs high enough to get out of his much-loved donut bed. So those front paws skid out from under him on the hardwood. The only thing I'm worried about is that the whole reason he gets out of bed is to lay on the cooler hardwood floor. So a rug wouldn't let him do that.

But maybe I position the rug so it is just outside the edge of the bed (and under it) where he can still lay on the cool floor near the bed but the rug is there for traction.

I think I'll have to play with it and see.

The things we do for our Cush pups! :)

[molly muffin]

Interior decorating, cushings style. :D:D

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Interior decorating, cushings style. :D:D

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Ha ha!!! It's funny. We built our house and chose a one level floor plan just for Dudley so he wouldn't have any steps to hinder him. :D

If I had known then all that I know now, I probably would have had wall to wall carpeting installed for him too. :D

[molly muffin]

Ha ha!!! It's funny. We built our house and chose a one level floor plan just for Dudley so he wouldn't have any steps to hinder him. :D

If I had known then all that I know now, I probably would have had wall to wall carpeting installed for him too. :D

Yes but then he'd pee on the carpet. ROFL! They really do like to make things challenging, don't they.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. Just checking in. We're doing fine...just cold here. It's not even above freezing and we're expecting more snow later today. :(

Dudley is going in for his annual check up on Thursday, including vaccinations. I was wondering if any of you had been advised by your vet to forgo any vaccinations for your cush dog. Dudley doesn't hang around with other dogs much and he doesn't get kenneled when we go on vacation. So I wonder sometimes about the necessity of all of the vaccinations. Some are required by law here and those I cannot get around.

Anyway, just curious what others have been told about vaccinating a cush dog.

[labblab]

Hi there! Since you are asking about vaccination, here is a link to another member's thread in which we had a pretty extensive conversation last spring. If you start with the reply in the link and then keep scrolling onward (even onto the next page in the link because there are several more related replies there), I think you will get a variety of opinions and information which should be helpful as you make up your own mind as to what is best and safest for Dudley.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=72003#post72003

I wrote a couple of long relies that you'll see in that link, so I'll not bore you by repeating my comments here. But for me, the bottom line is that there is no single answer that is the best for every dog -- Cushpup or not. You need to factor in your dog's age, overall health, lifestyle, geographic home, and vaccination history. These are all factors to discuss in detail with your vet in order to weigh the risks/benefits of any given vaccine for your baby. I will add, though, that for any vaccines that are given -- do check to see whether there is a multi-year version available (for instance, 3-year rabies and 3-year distemper/parvo). If possible, it seems decidedly preferable to lessen the frequency of vaccination whenever possible and to avoid annual shots when you can. Some vaccines just don't confer immunity for any longer than that, such as shots for the bacterial infection, leptospirosis, or for kennel cough. But ongoing research is demonstrating that many other vaccines confer immunity for a longer time period than originally believed.

Given Dudley's age (13+), I'm guessing he's had a pretty thorough previous vaccination history. Plus, from what you are describing, his contact with other animals is infrequent. So I would encourage you to carefully review his vaccination status with your vet so as to decide which, if any, he really needs repeated at this stage. Here in the U.S., some governments will accept a medical waiver written by a vet in the event that a dog has a medical condition that makes vaccination risky. So this would be something else to discuss when Dudley goes in for his check-up.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Marianne covered the vaccination issue very thoroughly and that thread is a winner when it comes to the various opinions.

So I'll say...brrrrr more snow might be heading our way too. We had a couple lovely spring sort of day and now back down to below freezing. *sigh* I have been reassured that summer will show up at some point, so I'm going to just hold on to that. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Thanks for the link to that thread, Marianne. That was very helpful. I dug out Dudley's pet passport (gotta love the EU :D ) to see what he had last time. He got a 3 year rabies two years ago so he doesn't need that. But the other two things he got are only one year. One was the kennel cough up the nose stuff. And the other was a vaccination - for parvovirus and the like, I guess.

I'm going to ask the vet before they give him any shots what he really needs because he is quite old (will be 14 in July) and has always been up to date on vaccinations. But I would prefer not to medicate him if it isn't really necessary.

With that said, he was not acting like a 14 year old dog with Cushings when we got home yesterday...he was running laps around the dining room table and into the kitchen. :D

[molly muffin]

I love it when they act like themselves all over again and you'd never know they were going through anything at all with their health.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Well, the visit to the vet went fine. Dudley looks good, sounds good. The vet gave him only one vaccination (the one I couldn't get around because of the laws here). He recommended a glucosamine supplement for Dudley because of some arthritis. (He was trying to get us to switch food for Dudley but I am kind of loathe to do that because he loves his food so much.) Dudley is getting 1000mg of glucosamine in the food he eats today. Is that too much? Too little? The food also has chondroitin and fish oil for "joint health and maintenance."

If I need to supplement his glucosamine, then I'd prefer to do it with a pill or oil or something. But I'm curious what others do.

I had never really read the amounts of everything in his food - it's amazing. Probably healthier than what I eat! :D He gets bee pollen, gingko biloba and green tea in it!

[molly muffin]

yay, good vet visits are wonderful. :)

This site has it broken down by weight and also has some other medicine dosage amounts, so you might find it interesting.

http://www.walkervalleyvet.com/otc-meds.htm

So, 16.5kg = 36.37lb which would be 1000 milligrams recommended dosage.

I use a treat for my Molly, who is about 19lbs. For her weigh she's at 500milligrams but the treat I give her is 750mg and the vet said that is fine.

Dudley's food sounds pretty darn good. What brand is it?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Thanks Sharlene. I think I might add another 500 mg to Dudley's daily regimen.

His food is from a company called Oliver's. It's a Danish company and we've been using their food for about 4 years now. I've included a link but it's all in Danish. http://www.olivers.dk/
But basically, we liked that their food contains natural sources of vitamins and minerals. Dudley eats the one called Diet and Senior. (He's always been a little overweight.) We also like that they deliver it to our door.

[gabelle1995]

Hi all. Just checking in. It's been a while since I've been on. I've had a few other things on my mind - I found out that I'm pregnant. So Dudley won't be the only baby in the house in a few months. :D

We've been home all this past week (vacation) so Dudley is exceptionally tired. But this morning he seems disoriented. I don't know if it is just because he is overtired or what. So I'm keeping a close eye on him. But he's eating fine, going to the bathroom fine, still drinking quite a bit of water (house is dry). He has energy when we take him walking.

We'll see if rest helps. We're back at work on Tuesday so he'll get a full day of rest then.

[addy]

WOW:D

Congrats are in order, you must be thrilled:):):):):):)

I hope Dudley perks up, they get off when their routine changes. Cush pups thrive on boring routine. Zoes always gets off when I am suddenly home for a week too as her routine is out the window;)

[molly muffin]

Congratulations!!! How exciting!
Yep, these babies all need their serious nap times. :) So, next week, he might be more himself once the schedule is more regular.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Good morning,

Haven't heard from you in awhile. I thought I'd check in and see how Dudley is and How are you doing?
Hope that all is well.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Yes, it has been a while. I've had a lot of other things happening. I had a miscarriage. So I was focused on my own health for a little while. Dudley was so sweet throughout that ordeal.

Dudley seems to be about the same. His hindquarter weakness persists. I think he is getting gradually weaker. I will probably take him for another acupuncture and massage treatment soon to see if that helps. He's still drinking lots of water too. But he has moments, like yesterday when I started to walk towards him with the Furminator he took off and was doing laps of the backyard. :D

One thing I have noticed with the hindquarter weakness is that it seems worst for him when he is standing still (eating, drinking). When he is moving, it's not noticeable. Is that normal?

[gabelle1995]

So Dudley's grass allergies kicked in. Poor thing. He threw up a little of that yellow, gunky stuff today. He's always had allergies though. I just feel bad for him. At least I can take something for my grass allergies.

Otherwise, we're just enjoying the sunshine here. Finally!

[molly muffin]

I was so sorry to read of your loss. My condolences to you and your hubby. Acupuncture and massage souns like a great idea. I hope it helps Dudley out. Allergies habe been horrid this year :( Poor Dudley Have you tried Benadryl for him?
Enjoy the sunshine it is yucky rain here now Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Buddy is allergic to grass also, among many other things. I have had to keep him off of grass entirely until very recently. Have you tried PAWZ or doggy socks on Dudley? No, I am not joking!!!!:D. Another member uses them for her dog. I tried them. It takes a little getting used to. Buddy didn't want to walk with them on at first, but soon got used to them. Now he can take walks in the park and go other places where there is grass. Just a thought......

Hugs,
Kathy

[gabelle1995]

Hmmm...that's an interesting idea with the socks. Dudley has some boots that we use in the winter when he's walking in snow. Maybe those would work. He hasn't had problems with it today but it's also very windy. So most of the pollen's been blown off of everything.

I used Benadryl on him when we lived in the US (before the Cushing's diagnosis) but stopped because it made him loopy. And now I would worry about that because of his hindquarter weakness - that he might feel too dizzy or loopy and fall down.

We also spent a lot of time outside yesterday so he was really in the pollen all day...that probably didn't help. Guess we need to keep it shorter.

Today was bath day. So we are very unpopular with Dudley right now. :D

[gabelle1995]

So yesterday we were out in the yard and our neighbor was out with his black lab. Dudley adores this dog. The neighbor and I were talking and there was a lot of tail wagging going on. The neighbor suggested that we could let the two of them run around in my fenced yard and I agreed. Well, Dudley spent the whole time running around trying to keep up with this young lab. (I don't even think he's 2 yet.) It wore him out. But moreover, I noticed he was limping on his back right leg later in the day. I think he twisted it or something. Although it seems to be up in the hip area. (Where he is already somewhat weak anyway because of the Cushings.)

He's still limping this morning despite a very good night's sleep. Should I try to keep him on crate rest? Ice packs? Heating pad? He doesn't seem to be in pain - he isn't crying or whimpering, and he isn't running off to hide like he normally does if he has pain. I plan to take him for a massage and acupuncture treatment as soon as I can but the clinic for that is closed on Sundays. So any other suggestions to help Dudley feel better are greatly appreciated.

[Trish]

Awww so nice to hear of him having a fun time! I am glad they forget about their ailments and just have a good time playing with their buddies, but sometimes they just overdo it don't they! Does he have any arthritis in his hips as well as the weakness? If he does I bet he just overdid and feels bit sore in his hips, but it is good he is not doing his usual behaviours like hiding so it can't be too painful, so hard to tell sometimes?!? Do you have any doggy pain relief for him? I think I would just keep him a little quiet today and no more romping till it hopefully settles down and if no better tomorrow get him in for a checkup with the vet. :)

[gabelle1995]

Hi Trish. Thanks for the message. Yes, I always like it when Dudley acts like a puppy again and thinks he can keep up with the young folks. :D

He actually kept himself pretty quiet yesterday. And today he was at home while we worked and we could see a difference when we got back. He's doing better. He does have some arthritis too (mostly in the front legs) so I'm sure that didn't help. But he seems to be mending now.

I'm curious what painkiller others use here for joint and muscle pain in their cush pups. I have something called Meloxicam that I use for Dudley. Like doggy ibuprofen I've been told. But what are others using?

[molly muffin]

Hope Dudley is doing okay and making a good recovery.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Dudley is doing lots better. I'm out of town for work this week but my husband tells me that he's not limping anymore and is back to his usual self. So a couple of days of rest did the trick. I can't wait to see him Saturday and go for a long walk. :)

[Trish]

What a relief for you to here the limps have vanished, sounds like it was a bit too much for him tearing about with his little pal! Hope you week speeds by fast, he sure will be ready for a nice walk when his Mom gets back home!

My Flynn has arthritis in his hips and also his back. He was on a non-steroidal for that for a long time and it worked well, Previcox. But when we had increasing problems with kidneys and high liver tests we stopped that and swapped him to Tramadol which has less impact on those organs. It is a small dose and does not seem to adversely affect him ie make him sleepy and seems to be working fine for us. I also give him a joint and bone supplement containing glucosamine, chondrotin and NZ green lipped mussels. I also got his weight down a little as the excess put extra strain on his joints. I think exercise is good for them. He seems comfortable now on this mixture!

He also has a little mate who is only 4 mths old, when we visit they tear about too and it worries me BUT they are dogs and I am a firm believer in letting them be dogs and play and romp while they can (within reason of course) he has got through 2 big cancer surgeries and we have not done all of this to now wrap him in cotton wool... quality of life is most important for me and if he wants to romp... I let him romp :D Hope Dudley keeps improving and is bright eyed and bushy tailed for your return! :)

Editing to add that Flynn does not have cushings, we thought he did at one stage but testing did not confirm it and after rounds of testing we finally found his adrenal tumour and got it removed. Just thought I better add that as you asked specifically about cush pups!

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. Just checking in. No problems to report here. It's funny - I think Dudley is getting more vocal as he gets older. When we are getting ready to take him for a walk, he barks at us if we aren't at the door ready to go when he is. :D He never did that before.

Dudley has a birthday coming up. (Since he's a rescue, we always celebrate it around July 1 because we don't know the actual date.) I want to cook him a special dinner since who knows how much longer he might be with us. (I always had this idea that I would cook him a special last meal when it was that time, but reading stories here makes me think that I had better do it for occasions like his birthday just in case I don't get the opportunity to do it for his last meal.) Is it silly to cook him a steak and baked potato? He loves both. I also want to make him a cake. Does anyone have any good recipes for a cake for dogs?

[gabelle1995]

Hi all. Just checking in again. It's been hot and dry here. So we keep fans going for Dudley all the time...and for us too. ;)

Dudley is still shedding a lot. We've tried a bath twice in the last two months. And I take the furminator to him whenever he'll let me. But still he seems to be constantly blowing his coat. Is this something I should be concerned about?

Otherwise, appetite is normal, water intake is normal, energy level is normal. I put a seagrass rug under his bed (by my side of the bed where he sleeps) so it makes it easier for him to get up and down at night. I was worried about covering up too much of the floor since that's where he likes to lay when it's warm. But I figured out a way to do it so he still has cool places to lay with no rug and I can tell that it's given him new confidence.

The other day Dudley gave me a scare. He walked right up to my beehive and started snapping at the bees! Naturally, they started to chase him. He was barking at them and I was scared to death he (or my hubby) would get stung. Luckily, no one got hurt. He's never done that before though.

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. Just our monthly check-in. When we had Dudley at the vet earlier this year he recommended starting Dudley on glucosamine supplements. We decided to wait a bit. Well, it was time so we started them almost a month ago. And what a difference! He is on a glucosamine and chondroitin tablet and we add a powder (MSM) that should help the other two work better. He is walking better, has more energy, and just generally looks better. I feel bad now that I waited so long. (I just didn't want to add more pills into the mix.)

It feels like Dudley has been shedding all year...still. But I have talked to a couple of other pet parents in the area and they say it's been the same with their dogs. So maybe it's just the weather. I just chase him with the furminator everytime we go outside.

[Harley PoMMom]

What a wonderful update about Dudley! So glad he is doing so well, and happy to hear that the supplements have helped with his mobility!! Thanks so much for letting us know how Dudley is doing and please do keep us updated. ;)

Love and hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Yay for Dudley.

I think supplements can really make a difference sometimes. I think it helped Molly to feel more energetic and of course the joint stuff is good for any dog once they hit that age where it can bother them.

Love the good reports!
hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[doxiesrock912]

Daisy has been on glucosamine with MSM for more than a year now. It does wonders for her too.
My father also uses it

[gabelle1995]

Well, one step forward, two steps back.

We came home from vacation. Dudley stayed with my in-laws while we were gone, just like always. He is always worn out after being there but this time we noticed his eyes are bloodshot and sometimes rolled back a little too far. Additionally, the tear ducts seem to be leaking causing the staining down his face. Sleep hasn't helped the eye problems (I thought it was just because he was overtired). His eyes also twitch sometimes when he looks into any light. So I'm a little worried. Anyone else experience anything similar before?

[Squirt's Mom]

I think I would have the vet check him out. Did your in-laws notice anything different about him while he was there?

I hope this is nothing to worry about but let us know how Dudley is doing.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

His eyes need to be check out asap. I went through a similar scenario only much worse with Zoe, her eyes were rolled upward as you describe, blood red then she could not even open them. She ended up with an ulcer with secondary glaucoma and allergic conjunctivitis.

Dont wait with eye stuff, it gets back quickly.

[gabelle1995]

Thanks for the quick replies Leslie and Addy. We're going to the vet tomorrow. My in-laws didn't notice anything unusual other than he seemed more steady on his back legs than usual, which we attributed to the supplements. But I noticed the red eyes when we picked him up yesterday.

Now, to top it all off, he seems to have pulled a muscle or something in one of his back legs while "telling off" the neighbor dog (who is a 2 year old black lab). :( So now he's limping as well. Our backyard has some uneven areas and I suspect that he stepped wrong into one of the holes. He's done that before with the same result. I guess it's true that when it rains, it pours.

I will let you know what the vet says.

[gabelle1995]

Dudley got a diagnosis of an inflammation of the iris along with keratitis. The vet checked everything about the eye - tear production, pressure, for any scratches or other abrasions that might cause this redness and blinking. Nothing was amiss. (In fact, he said that Dudley's pressure in one eye was even a little low.) But he said that there were some blood vessels growing into the iris and that these appeared to be bigger than normal. He said that usually this is because of some deeper issue and is autoimmune in nature. So he has put Dudley on some eye drops with steroids. We'll use those for 2 weeks and then go back for a recheck.

I feel comfortable with this diagnosis considering all the other things it could have been. I suspect Dudley's immune system could indeed be run down after spending a week and a half with my in-laws and constantly following my mother-in-law around the house. He's been very tired which tells me that he didn't rest much while he was there. So no doubt this also had a negative impact on his immune system.

As far as the leg he twisted while showing off/telling off the neighbor's dog, it seems to be getting better. Of course there was no sign of it at all while we were at the vet - but again, lots of other dogs around so no sign of weakness there.

He's laying at my feet right now staring up at me with that green dye running down his snout. :D

[molly muffin]

Well I don't know alot about the eye issues, others like Addy and Patti have been through some issues. I hope though that once the stress is gone, that the eye issues will clear up too. Poor thing, green dye on his snout! LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

Eye drops with steriods can sometimes possibly be a problem with a Cush pup. Hopefully after two weeks that will be the end of it. Our opthalmologist said I could not use them with Zoe. Just an FYI.

[gabelle1995]

I asked the vet specifically about the eye drops with steroids because we've had problems when Dudley has taken steroid pills before (way before Cushing's diagnosis). But he says that they are absorbed differently than a tablet (which he agreed that Dudley absolutely should not have). The drops go by the brand name Maxidex. Here's what the NIH says about them http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682869.html

Nonetheless, we're keeping a close eye on him. All this stuff always makes me nervous.

[gabelle1995]

Dudley seems all-around better this evening. His eyes are looking better, not as red. He's got lots of energy. And his limp seems to be better. My husband and I were rubbing his belly and we were feeling those two back legs at the same time. It's remarkable how much muscle mass he has lost on that one back leg where he currently has the limp. (No wonder it got injured when he was trying to show off.) :( That made me a little sad. But he seems determined to carry on. So I will let him carry on as long as he can.

[molly muffin]

Dudley is basically a happy boy it sounds like. Still trying to show that pup next door whats what!
With the medicine and less stress being home, hopefully those eyes will clear right up in no time at all.

Bet he loved have both of you rubbing his belly. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[gabelle1995]

Dudley's eyes are better now. We have a followup appointment at the vet on Wednesday. But I don't expect anything there other than him telling us that we can stop the eye drops now.

Dudley's limp on that back leg continues. Some days it's more noticeable than others. He has managed (as always) to figure out ways to deal with this "bum" leg and he has this funny way to get out of his bed now. He still doesn't show signs of pain. If we lift his good back leg, he will stand on the other one. There's no shaking or whining or yelping. So I'm not sure why he won't distribute his weight evenly.

But this has got me thinking - we had started Dudley on glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM supplements a little more than a month ago. The instructions on the glucosamine/chondroitin pill were to give 2 a day for the first month and then 1 a day after that. We reduced to 1 a day right around the time that this whole leg thing started. Do you think it could have anything to do with it? Is there any harm in bumping him back up to 2 pills a day?

[gabelle1995]

I hope someone will read this and be able to reply fairly quickly. Dudley is at the vet today to get x-rays of his hips and back legs. His limp persists and they think it's just very bad arthritis. (They are doing blood work before they put him under for the x-rays so I will be sure to post those results as an update when I have them.)

My question is are we crazy to consider reducing the vetoryl more to get a better effect with the cortisol on the arthritis? I'm not sure I want to discontinue Vetoryl completely. But I hope that if we underdose him that we might get better quality of life for him with the arthritis. As it is right now we have to help him up with his back legs because he's so weak - once he's up and moving he's ok, can still squat to pee and poop with no problem. I was thinking about suggesting this dosage reduction to the vet today based on what the x-rays show. But I'm sure they are going to show arthritis.

Any advice please?

[labblab]

Well, here's my two cents worth! ;)

With a senior dog of Dudley's age, I think overall current quality of life is the most important issue and not so much staving off slower long-term chronic damage. So that can involve a balancing act in order to find a cortisol level that is most comfortable. If you think that arthritis is becoming an increasing issue, I don't see why you can't try a dosage reduction. You can always increase again if the change does not seem to offer any help or if more bothersome Cushing's symptoms rebound.

Best wishes to you both!
Marianne

[molly muffin]

I agree with mariann it's important that they have a good quality of life and often you have to find a happy medium it seems when there is arthritis too. I would try lowering to see if it helps. Also look into the shots

Hugs sharlene and Molly muffin

[gabelle1995]

Well, the vet was surprised and so were we. There isn't as much arthritis in his hips or legs as they thought there might be. That's the good news. The bad news is that he has a torn cruciate ligament in his right knee. They aren't recommending surgery given Dudley's age. The vet wanted to talk to the specialist about possible pain medicine for him. And also about physical therapy. So we're waiting to hear back from the vet about how to proceed. Dudley still doesn't seem to be in a lot of pain. He just finds it very annoying.

They didn't do ACTH today, only regular blood panel before anesthesia. Dudley was within range on everything. :)

Test / Result (Reference range)
RBC 6.15x10^12/L (5.65 - 8.87)
HCT 41.2% (37.3 - 61.7)
HGB 14.2 g/dl (13.1 - 20.5)
MCV 67.9 fL (61.6 - 73.5)
MCH 23.1 pg (21.2 - 25.9)
MCHC 34.5 g/dl (32.0 - 37.9)
RDW 17.7% (13.6 - 21.7)
%RETIC 0.4% (no range specified)
RETIC 22.8 K/mcL (10.0 - 110.0)
WBC 6.28x10^9/L (5.05 - 16.76)
%NEU 69.8% (no range specified)
%LYM 19.4% (no range specified)
%MONO 7.6% (no range specified)
%EOS 2.7% (no range specified)
%BASO 0.5% (no range specified)
NEU 4.38x10^9/L (2.95 - 11.64)
LYM 1.22x10^9/L (1.05 - 5.10)
MONO 0.48x10^9/L (0.16 - 1.12)
EOS 0.1710^9/L (0.06 - 1.23)
BASO 0.03x10^9/L (0.00 - 0.10)
PLT 362 K/mcL (148 - 484)
MPV 10.9 fL (8.7 - 13.2)
PDW 14.0 fL (9.1 - 19.4)
PCT 0.39% (0.14 - 0.46)

GLU 4.88 mmol/L (3.89 - 7.95)
UREA 9.2 mmol/L (2.5 - 9.6)
CREA 65 micromol/L (44 - 159)
BUN/CREA 37 (no range specified)
TP 60 g/L (52 - 82)
ALB 32 g/L (22 - 39)
GLOB 28 g/L (25 - 45)
ALB/GLOB 1.1 (no range specified)
ALT 56 U/L (10 - 100)
ALKP 112 U/L (23 - 212)

[Squirt's Mom]

A Yahoo! group that helped me a great deal with one of my babies who had multiple skeletal issues.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ConservativeManagement/info

EDITED TO ADD:

They don't just address issues with the skeleton but all sorts of problems that cannot be surgically treated for whatever reason.

[lulusmom]

I'm sorry to hear about Dudley's cruciate ligament injury but the additional good news is that his blood work appears to be completely normal. That's great news! Congratulations.

We have a number of members who have dealt with cruciate ligament injuries and I hope they will be by to share their experience with you.

Glynda

[Roxee's Dad]

Somebody say cruciate ligament injury ?
Hi and a bleated welcome from me too :)

I have dealt with it twice, once with a cush pup and the last one with her 15 year old sister about 3 years ago.

Roxee was about 10 years old and had the surgery and from what I understand, that surgery methodology has improved quite a bit. Surgery requires a lot of watching and making sure the pup doesn't re injure the knee while healing. There is quite a bit of down time where movement must be limited giving the repair and incision time to heal. Expense is another consideration, back then it was well over 2000 dollars.

Rozee on the other hand was 15 when she injured her knee, vet said it was a sprain. She was 3 legging it putting all her weigh on her one good hind leg. Well next thing I know, she is just staring at me, making little whimpering sounds, She was unable to get up.... so off to the vet again and come to find out she had torn her cruciate ligament.

At her age, we chose not to do surgery, but conservative management instead, and with Leslie's help (Squirts Mom) we including massage and swimming for physical therapy. So we now have a pup with injuries to both hind legs :( and were using a towel as a belly band to take the weight off of her hind legs to go out and do her business. The vet was recommending a knee brace, when Glynda (Lulu's Mom) suggested "Eddies Wheels for Pets" We had a wheel chair made for her and she got around like a champ :D She was in the wheels for about 5 1/2 months to ensure the healing was complete. On walks she was a chick magnet too :p BTW, she just turned 18 last summer and while she does't jump around anymore, she is doing pretty well for her age :D What I am saying here is we have to be careful he doesn't injure the other knee while he is trying to compensate.

It seems to me that his knee isn't bothering him too much and at his age, you will have to make a decision. Either way, his activity should be kept to a minimum, no jumping, running or steps. Pain management can be tricky because if we take too much pain away, he feels good and wants to run and jump, but at the same time we love them so much we want to take all the pain away.

[kaibosmom]

Hi there. My dog Kaibo also has a cruciate tear. It is one of the reasons we finally did the ACTH for him in the first place. He has had 2 knee surgeries already - both for luxating patella. So we had just nicely healed from the last one and began our agility career again. Only for me to notice a slight limp. Well back to the surgeon for a consult and here we have a cruciate tear. Long story short, Kaibo had surgery to remove an adrenal tumour in July. Now he is recovered from that and we were just wanting to let him have a nice recovery and let his little body get back to normal now that the Cushing's is gone. We found out today, sadly, that things have gotten much worse and his hip is now involved. I suspect that once the tumour was removed and he was off prednisone he started feeling more pain. He is the master of masking symptoms and compensating so I think over the last month he has made more and more adjustments as he feels more pain and he has just compensated too much.

I guess I'm just letting you know that you aren't alone. Also, if you have surgery questions I can help as I have been told that the recovery from the cruciate surgery is much like the recovery was for luxating patellas. Furthermore, I can attest to the fact that physical therapy goes a long way and is well worth the price. Kaibo became very strong initially with weekly treatment and got to the point where the rehab vet said she would not longer be considering surgery. However, he reinjured himself and unfortunately, he hasn't ever gotten to the same level of recovery and now obviously we have taken a step backwards. I did take him swimming a few times but it wasn't really his cup of tea because I couldn't be in the water with him. Anyway, I wish you all the best. I'm not on here much but happened to stop in tonight and was curious about your questions!

[gabelle1995]

Thank you everyone for your feedback and experience! It really helps because we haven't dealt with this before. Well, I have for myself and I can say it is one of the most painful things I've ever had. :)

I can't see putting Dudley through this surgery and rehab. So we will go with conservative treatment. Dudley has tried swimming before for herniated discs but he hates it - and it caused his last herniated disc in his neck. Luckily, our vet has one of those water walkers that the physical therapist uses. I think that as long as Dudley doesn't have to strain his neck to keep his head dry, then it would be very good for him. It might help give him a little more muscle mass in his back area generally.

I read online that you can buy braces for dogs with cruciate ligament injuries. I may look into that. I have a brace I wear for my own when I'm doing certain sports. It helps a lot.

As for pain management, I don't want to give him painkillers when I can't see that he's in pain. This dog is a fighter and he doesn't show pain often. In fact, the only time I've really seen it was with that herniated disc in his neck. He didn't want to eat and would hide in various corners of the house. So I assume I should just look for the same signs again to decide if he needs pain meds, right?

[Squirt's Mom]

If my feeble memory is true, this is the bunch that was recommended to me for braces for my Crys -

http://www.orthopets.com/

I lost her before I could afford these so I can't tell you how well they worked. :(

[spdd]

Hi... nobody knows what's the matter with my dog. They suspected a tear in the summer and if you read my thread you'll know what I've gone through. I do take my dog swimming. Although he loves it a good hydrotherapist will put a life jacket on your dog so they don't strain themselves and the neck although not supported they don't have to try so hard to keep it from getting wet.

I just thought I'd throw that out there for you. He swims in heated salt water, it does wonders for me too.

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. It's been a while since Dudley and I checked in. Dudley has recovered from his previous injury...well, as best as he can recover.

Our problem now seems to be picky eating. In particular, Dudley has a tendency not to eat breakfast now. If we leave breakfast out over the day, he will eat most if not all of it eventually - I'm not sure when as I'm usually not home. But this is making administration of his vetoryl difficult. We are talking about moving it to the evening when he seems more eager to eat at dinnertime. What should we be aware of moving his dosage timing from am to pm?

Otherwise, Dudley went for his yearly checkup a few weeks ago and the vet said he's the oldest beagle he's ever seen in all his years of practice. (Dudley will be 15 this coming summer.) Other than a bit of excessive ear wax, he pronounced him in good health.

[labblab]

Welcome back!!! How recently has Dudley's cortisol level been checked? I would worry that his picky appetite may be the result of his cortisol dropping too low. In that regard, that is the major problem with shifting to dosing only in the evening -- the monitoring ACTH tests can no longer be performed during the time period during which the trilostane is maximally effective in the body, so you can no longer judge accurately whether or not the dose is appropriate.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

The ACTH MUST be performed 4-6 hours after the dose is given or the results are inaccurate. So unless your vet will be available to do the ACTH during the night time hours, switching to an evening only dosing would be problematic.

[gabelle1995]

Actually, I think we might have found part of the reason he is resistant to eating - the food's dry. We have started to wet it a little and let it soak and that seems to do the trick. We're doing this in the evenings too even though he still seems eager to eat at that time. (He has never been a morning dog, so I guess I'm not really surprised that in his old age he's more interested in sleep than breakfast.)

[gabelle1995]

Out of an abundance of caution I took Dudley to the vet anyway and had them run ACTH, thyroid and full blood panel. It was good I did - he's Addisonian. The vet was shocked. I don't know numbers yet and they are keeping him overnight to keep a close eye on him and give him meds and IV fluids. Our vet didn't seem to think we were too late getting him there - I asked him if it was too late. Dudley wasn't in an Addisonian crisis. The vet did indicate that there was nothing in Dudley's regular blood panel to indicate why this happened - no wonky liver numbers or anything like that. We are stopping all Vetoryl and probably also his levothyroxine. The vet wants him to be cushingoid again before doing any treatment.

I'll post numbers once I have them tomorrow.

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm SO GLAD you took Dudley in! You are on the right track stopping all the meds and letting all the signs come back before restarting these meds. Let us know how he is doing when you can!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh. What a shocker. Although it has happened, but for there to be nothing and then bham. I'm glad you got him in when you did. He should be fine now, might need a bit of pred to help him out for a bit, or if he remains addisons then could be on it for awhile. You'll have to see if the cortisol comes back up at all or not.

Gosh really glad you took him in!
Sharlene and molly muffin

[gabelle1995]

Just a quick update here. The vet called this morning and Dudley is doing well. He ate well last night and this morning. They are going to keep him there during the day and give him IV fluids but no more meds for the moment. We will pick him up this afternoon and talk to the vet about the short and long term plan for treatment.

[gabelle1995]

I do have a question though. What is the likelihood that Dudley will go back to being Cushingoid after this Addison's episode? I read somewhere last night that it depends on how damaged the adrenal cortex was during the Addison's period. But does anyone have experience with this or ideas about this?

[Squirt's Mom]

The adrenals can and do regenerate if the damage isn't too severe. One of the oddities, to me anyway, about Trilostane is that sometimes pups on this drug go into a sort of remission after their cortisol goes too low. We had a member here who had this happen with her baby several times. Princess would go months and months with no signs yet her adrenals were working fine. Many pups have gone through a crisis yet not become permanently Addison's. So don't get discouraged just yet. Give Dudley time to get over this ordeal and just watch him for the return of signs - either that his cortisol is still too low OR that it is on the rise again. For now, I would say he, and you, get a break from meds for a bit. ;)

Let us know how he's doing!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[gabelle1995]

Thanks for the info Leslie.

Dudley came home and had a good evening and night. Today he started out good but this afternoon he's been shaking (like his teeth chattering), pacing and panting. He doesn't seem to be in pain because he isn't going off to hide. He's just restless and can't seem to get calm. The vet put him on a low dose of Medrol (4mg) for a few days to get him stabilized, but I'm worried that the Medrol could be causing an upswing back to a Cushing's state. The good news in all of this is that his appetite seems to be back. He's eating everything in site. He's also drinking lots of water - and peeing a lot (with one accident in the house earlier). Again, these things could easily be the Medrol. He's been on Medrol before for herniated discs so we've seen what it can do. But I don't remember the panting, trembling and restlessness on the Medrol before.

Should we already start to step the Medrol down and get him off of it?

[Iraklis]

Does he get stuck in corners or circling or headpressing or have ''distant'' (for lack of better words) gaze?

[Squirt's Mom]

Did you ever get the ACTH results? With his signs being so strong, I think I would call the vet and ask about weaning him off the Medrol. Since Trilo leaves the system so quickly some pups don't even need anything like the Medrol or Pred at all - the Trilo is simply stopped for a period of time. But the ACTH would help us have a better idea about what was going on.

[molly muffin]

They said his electrolytes were okay before he came home?

If his adrenal glands weren't producing enough to cause an Addison crisis, then it would be odd that he would swing back to cushings so quickly, so I am not likely to suspect that right away.

Did they give you the actual numbers when they said he went Addision? I would think they were pretty low, the IV is normally to regulate the electrolytes, but if he continues with the shaking, you might want to take him back in to see if they slip out of being regulated or if he is going to need some meds for that for a time, in addition to the Medrol. Specifically, you want to know what the potassium and sodium are doing.

I wouldn't already start decreasing the Medrol. I would do that with the vet monitoring, and on a set schedule, so you know Dudley doesn't slip towards Addison again.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[gabelle1995]

Hi all. Well, after my previous post Dudley has improved...a lot! I'm still waiting to get the numbers from the vet - it's Easter holidays here now and they are closed but I asked for them when I spoke with our vet this past Monday. But Dudley is back to the happy, smiley, hungry, eager to walk dog that I know. It's absolutely wonderful to see him like he was a couple of years ago. His excessive shedding has subsided too. He is still on a small dose of Medrol and we are starting to reduce that again today so we can get him off it and see how he actually is.

It's just so wonderful to see him enjoying life again!

[Squirt's Mom]

YAY, Dudley! :cool::cool::cool: What good news! I know your heart is much lighter. :)

[molly muffin]

This is great news! Hope you all enjoy the weekend.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[gabelle1995]

BTW, I forgot to post Dudley's pre and post numbers for the ACTH.

Pre: < 14 nmol/l
Post: < 14 nmol/l

Dudley's been off the Medrol for almost 2 weeks now and while he isn't superdog like he was on steroids he is what I consider to be normal Dudley. (I don't like him on the steroids because he thinks he's tough and can do things he shouldn't at his age.) He's still drinking a lot and needs to pee pretty often. But appetite, desire to walk, sleeping patterns, etc are all very normal again. He has gained back the weight he lost in the time he wasn't eating well but he hasn't gained so much that I think his thyroid meds need adjusting. I don't see the symptoms of either Addison's or Cushing's strongly in him right now. So we have agreed with the vet to hold off on retesting until we see something.

It's just nice to see him eager to eat and excited about walks again!

[Harley PoMMom]

Those ACTH stimulation numbers are too low and Dudley needs cortisol supplementation such as prednisone. I am very worried about Dudley, if he does not get any cotisol supplemenation this can be life threatening, have his electrolytes been checked?

[gabelle1995]

The numbers I posted were prior to him being treated for Addison's with the medrol (which is prednisone). That was about a month ago that this particular ACTH was run. He was kept at the hospital overnight at that time and given medrol and electrolytes. I was merely posting the test results that I forgot to post earlier. He's much better now.

[molly muffin]

Whew. That is good to know that these numbers were from when the crash happened.

Glad to hear that he is back to being himself.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh my, :o I am sorry :o:o I am relieved to hear that those numbers were from a month ago and that Dudley is doing well!

[gabelle1995]

Hi everyone. Just checking in. Dudley is doing great! We have not restarted Vetoryl as he seems to be stable. He's also not on Medrol. The only meds he takes are Thyforon for his low thyroid (which he continues to have, but that is also at a stable level now too). He has recently had a little eye infection. We aren't sure how he got that but some eyedrops from the vet cleared that up.

I keep waiting for something to happen, for him to relapse to either Cushing or Addison. But so far there's no sign of it. We are getting ready for major upheaval though - I am two weeks from my due date. So Dudley will have a little sister to adjust to.

And Dudley just celebrated his birthday - he's 15 now! Amazing!

[addy]

I am so happy to read your update and Happy Belated Birthday to Dudley.

And another birthday soon to be celebrated!!!! Such good news!!!:D:D:D

[Harley PoMMom]

So happy to read that Dudley is doing so well!! And, Congrats on the new baby girl, AWWW!!! Also, Happy 15th Birthday, Dudley!!!!!

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Happy Birthday Dudley!! Way to go 15!!!

Oh my that is so wonderful. Congratulations on another bundle of joy in the house. :) and Dudley makes 2! :) :)

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[gabelle1995]

Just checking in. It's been a lot of months since I last checked in. We're doing OK. Our baby is almost 4 months old and Dudley is adjusting to not being the only baby anymore. He was a bit jealous the first couple of months but never took it out on her, only on us (by intentionally peeing on things). I was worried by all the peeing that the Cushings was coming back but we had him checked and he was fine. (There weren't any other symptoms.) He's getting more curious about the baby and she is definitely curious about him. I will have to protect Dudley once she starts to creep and crawl - don't want him getting ears pulled or eyes poked. I think he's a little too old to tolerate that very well.

Other than a little jealousy Dudley's health is really good for such an old man. He hasn't had any Cushing's or Addisons. We'll have to take him to be evaluated in January to see if he can have his teeth cleaned. They always do a full blood workup for him then so we can assess his general health then.

[molly muffin]

That is pretty natural for dogs to get jealous of the new family member. It doesn't always happen but it can. Molly acts out by peeing in the house when she gets jealous or in a huff. Since she doesn't do it any time other than in a huff, I know that's what it is. Usually when company with kids are over or a lot of people and she is ignored. Use to be when we left her in a kennel she would come home and do one pee at the top of the stairs going into the bedroom. Always the same place and only after being at the kennel and only once. It was like, hello, this is where I should be, my territory, mark it.

Oh yea, I don't think Dudley would do well with the tail and ear pulls, course she will learn not to do that too and there really is nothing a child likes better than a dog in their lives.

Great to hear from you!

[gabelle1995]

That was exactly it - Dudley felt ignored. I can give a perfect example. Here in Denmark a nurse comes to visit you regularly after giving birth. The first time she came Dudley was still with the in-laws. But the second time she came he was here. When she came in and Dudley went to sniff her she didn't reach down and pet him. So he peed on the floor right in front of her. He did it the next time she came too. And he's done it other times where we've had guests who have come to meet the baby. So I suspected jealousy anyway in the absence of any other cushing symptoms. But it was good to have it confirmed with the ACTH.

We will teach her how to treat Dudley (and all dogs) respectfully. But here when she starts crawling I don't think she'll understand that yet. And I don't want Dudley to be stressed out by her. :-) Our plan is to gate off the living room. Dudley will have the run of the house and she'll be confined there while she learns to crawl and while we show her how to treat him.

[addy]

That sounds like a good plan!!!!:):):):)

[gabelle1995]

Well, we are struggling here. Dudley isn't doing well. He's been on morphine since the incident with his knee. But then he had another episode of Addison's in the early spring and we had to start him on an every other day dose of Medrol. Since then, his appetite increased, which has been great. But he's losing weight. For a beagle that was always a bit on the chubby side, it's really noticeable around his hips. (I can make a ring around his hip area with my hands...never, ever been able to do that before.)

Worst of all is that he's having trouble with incontinence. He's had numerous accidents in the house in the last few months. In the last two weeks, my husband has gotten up to take him out in the middle of the night and three times has found him out cold in a completely urine soaked bed. :-( He never even woke up after he peed on himself. When he's awake, he'll circle around and around. He wants outside a lot but when he gets outside it's like he doesn't know what he's supposed to do. So then he comes in and wants out again 2 minutes later. He's not panting or head banging. But often he just doesn't seem like himself. I'm guessing it's CCD. Our vet suggested already about a year and a half ago that he was showing some signs of this. He's 16, after all.

The vet is coming on Thursday and we are going to have "the talk." I am positively sick at the thought of saying goodbye to Dudley. But at the same time, I don't want him to suffer, physically or psychologically. I don't know what to do.

[molly muffin]

I think that all you can really do is evaluate his quality of life and see how you think he is doing on a day by day basis and whether the bad out weighs the good or the good wins out.
It is always one of the hardest decisions to make. I wish there where words of wisdom that says what to do, but you know Dudley best and how he is doing.

[Squirt's Mom]

If it is CCD there are meds to try if possible. My Squirt lived with it for at least a year and did well on her meds for it. She took a product called Novifit (no script required) and Anypril (Selegiline) - tho the Novifit worked better than the Anypril for her.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you this week. Love that boy up especially well over the next few days. Know we are with you both.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[FemaleK9]

We will be thinking of you and Dudley; we understand so well what you're going through, and we're here if you need us.

[gabelle1995]

Thank you so much everyone for all of your support through the years. Dudley passed away peacefully at home today. He fell asleep in my lap doing his favorite thing: eating. He had taken a turn for the worse this past weekend and we knew that he was telling us it was time. This was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make in my life.

We have decided to have him cremated and get his ashes. Along with that they can make a keepsake piece of jewelry from his ashes so I will have something made that I can wear every day to remind me of my "little man".

Now I'm crying again. Better find the tissues.

[SuperCupcake64]

Oh, I am so, so sorry. I just went through it a few days ago with my Sammy, and knowing he was no longer suffering--plus the support of people who understand--has given me some peace. I hope your many wonderful memories of Dudley and your love for one another provide you comfort in the days to come.

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so sorry for your loss and my heart goes out to you at this most difficult time. Please know we are here for you and understand the pain you are feeling.

With Heartfelt Sympathy, Lori

[FemaleK9]

So sorry to hear your sad news. It's such a hard decision to make. Hugs and sincere sympathy.

[molly muffin]

I am so sorry to hear this. Knowing it was time doesn't make the reality any easier.
My sincerest condolences.

[Squirt's Mom]

I am heart-broken to hear about our sweet Dudley. You and he tackled everything that came his way with grace and determination, doing all in your power to make each day the best possible. It is such a blessing to know he Crossed peacefully in his mom's lap doing what he loved with the one he most loved. I know that love will live on for all time and one day you will hold your sweet boy again.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Fox, Redd, and all our Angels