My Pug Scoop (Precious Scoop has passed... ) [Archive] - Page 3 - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

goldengirl88

03-21-2013, 10:04 AM

Vicki:
My heart goes out to you. You and poor Scoop are certainly having a rough time. Would Scoop eat any of the following: canned chicken- it is smelly and may attract him to it, tuna, any type of canned beef, these canned meats are usually stronger in smell, cooked or canned salmon, egg whites cooked? How about if you made him some home made gravy since it doesn't have all the fat and additives of canned? I know my Vet has something in a can ID or something that can be sucked up in a syringe and fed to them. It is to give then high calorie food since they won't eat. Have you tried giving some food in a syringe? Sometimes they feel so bad they won't eat until some is put in their mouth and it stimulates them to eat. Tipper and I are praying daily for Scoop. This has been a never ending roller coaster for you two. I hope it gets turned around soon, as Scoop has had enough lately, and is probably worn out from all this. Sometimes you wonder what your poor baby is thinking with all this happening. God Bless You Both.
Patti

scoora

03-22-2013, 12:22 AM

Thank you for your concern and worry about Scoop. He's been eating for the most part but I just don't know if what he eats is good for his blood sugar levels. Last week he had a few days where he gave me a really hard time. He really scared me. I thought for sure that was the end. He must have been feeling really bad those days. He has gotten very picky. I have been giving him some Merrick canned food and right now he has been eating it but you never know that could change. He didn't want his chicken so Mel suggested I try turkey breast. So far he loves it and sometimes he will eat chicken too. Just never know what he will and will not eat. When I asked the vet if his pickiness could be because of the tumor, she said, no. The IMS said, yes. I think it is because of the tumor. It seems like he will eat something that is different and meaty. Carrots and green beans he won't eat at home but yesterday while he was at the vet's for his curve he ate his carrots. Sometimes it will take 5 tries before he will not turn his nose away at something and sometimes he just won't eat it. Just have to keep changing things up for him if he doesn't want something. I told the vet I have been giving him Merrick canned food and she didn't say anything. She knows I just have to give him what he'll eat. Maybe that's why his BG levels were so high yesterday.

I do love and appreciate all your suggestions. It helps to hear what others have tried. There are things I would not have thought of and it really helps to hear about them. Scoop still has the bowel problems. Took a stool sample to the vet. Didn't hear anything about it. He also vomited tonight. He was sleeping and got up and vomited. He wasn't all worked up or anything. Just threw up one time.

Scoop had an aCTH done along with his BG curve on Wed.
His pre number-1.6
His post number-2.2

ACTH before this one on Jan.23
Pre-2.0
Post-5.2

ACTH before that on Dec.5 This was when he was dealing with his eye ulcer.
Pre-9.3
Post-10.1
All these times the numbers have dropped without an increase of Vetoryl.
I sure am glad he won't be getting any Vetoryl tomorrow. Scoop has to fast for his appointment so I won't give him his Vetoryl at all tomorrow.

Do you feel his numbers are too low? They scared me when I saw them but the vet thinks they are great numbers.

Skye

03-22-2013, 12:32 AM

if i recall...........seems my ims said that on the acth that is where it is actually good to see the low numbers........i am not positive thought.

have you tried the ground turkey cooked for him? i have heard that works pretty well for several.

scoora

03-22-2013, 12:38 AM

I bought some ground turkey but haven't made it yet. I made a turkey breast and he has been eating that. Will try the ground turkey when the turkey breast is all. Is turkey fattier than chicken?

Skye

03-22-2013, 12:48 AM

i thought you could actually purchase it leaner.......ground turkey anyways. could be wrong...

scoora

03-22-2013, 12:54 AM

I think the ground turkey I got said 93% on it so that's pretty good.

Skye

03-22-2013, 12:57 AM

yes that is awesome. good job!!!

Simba's Mom

03-22-2013, 01:29 AM

Aw I hope Scoop perks up, sending hugs and tummy rubs from me and Simba....

goldengirl88

03-22-2013, 11:33 AM

Vicki:
Glad to hear Scoop is eating the poor baby. I know you are not supposed to give a dog turkey skin, but I guess the turkey is ok. My Vet told me a while ago, but I can't seem to remember why. I guess you can look it up. Glad he is a least eating. I know you have been thru a lot, but you are doing a really good job for Scoop. He has a mommy that really loves him, and is doing everything possible for him. I continue to pray for you and Scoop, that he can get over these hurdles and feel better soon. Gd Bless you Both
Patti

lulusmom

03-22-2013, 01:35 PM

Scoop had an aCTH done along with his BG curve on Wed.
His pre number-1.6
His post number-2.2

ACTH before this one on Jan.23
Pre-2.0
Post-5.2

ACTH before that on Dec.5 This was when he was dealing with his eye ulcer.
Pre-9.3
Post-10.1
All these times the numbers have dropped without an increase of Vetoryl.
I sure am glad he won't be getting any Vetoryl tomorrow. Scoop has to fast for his appointment so I won't give him his Vetoryl at all tomorrow.

Do you feel his numbers are too low? They scared me when I saw them but the vet thinks they are great numbers.

We've seen many dogs whose cortisol continued to drop over a 90 day period on the same starting dose. We do know that it is possible for dogs who have been on the same dose for well over a year to go into an addisonian crisis when out of the blue, cortisol drops too low. Scoop's pre and post stim numbers are good but not all dogs do well with cortisol that low. My two dogs maintained on Trilostane for over a year and their post stim numbers were consistently in the low to mid 2 range. Their vet and I were happy about those results but my dogs were not feeling poorly like Scoop. They were feeling very good and had great appetites. Since Scoop is skipping his dose this morning, I'd be interested to see if he feels better today.

Glynda

scoora

03-23-2013, 09:26 AM

Well my heart is shattered once again. It hurts so much. I had my hopes up and they came crashing down. The radiation oncologist at the U. of Penn. said she won't do radiation on Scoop. She is worried about all his problems and all the times he would have to go under anesthesia(sp?).
More later.

LabDad

03-23-2013, 09:59 AM

Hi Vicki,

Sorry about all this news, but hang in there. Lot's of surgery on the elderly isn't a good thing, so I am sure the oncologist is being honest. Hope Scoop is eating some today. I will be monitoring, but in and out a lot today too.

goldengirl88

03-23-2013, 10:10 AM

Vicki:
My heart goes out to you, I just cried when reading your posting. Tipper may be facing a surgery also, and I am petrified because of her age and Cushings etc. I am trying to get a decent hospital and it is hard to find one without complaints given on their patient reviews. Some of the Cush dogs seem to never have additional problems. I guess that really isn't the norm you can expect. I have been very vigilant with Tipper, and I am also shattered that she may be facing a surgery. I pray Scoop can get on the right track, he has had a long road to walk with all this. God Bless You Both
Patti

Squirt's Mom

03-23-2013, 11:25 AM

Dear Vickie,

My heart breaks for you and Scoop. It is so, so hard to have your hope taken away, dashed on the rocks at your feet. I was concerned that with all his issues, radiation might be too hard on him but I would have done just like you and would have had to find out for sure. I am glad the IMS was honest with you and didn't put Scoop through the radiation, giving you false hope and making his days miserable for nothing.

It probably feels like you aren't doing enough for Scoop but that isn't true at all. You are turning over every rock you can, even huge boulders like radiation, to find help for your sweet boy. You are facing some of your deepest fears on his behalf, for his good. No one could do more, sweetie. Scoop knows how hard you are working for him, how very much you love him. He will never forget; for all time he will remember his mom's amazing love.

Many hugs and gentle belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

goldengirl88

03-23-2013, 02:16 PM

Vicki:
I think Leslie has very eloquently said it all. I agree with everything she said. I know how you feel, you keep striving for that one thing that will help them. That is all we can do is fight for them. I am glad they didn't take your money or give you false hope. My heart is on the floor like yours. To have you hopes for a miracle stamped out is devastating. I feel your pain and pray for you and Scoop to get a miracle. God Bless you both
Patti

molly muffin

03-23-2013, 08:34 PM

Hi Vicki. I'm so sorry this news wasn't better for Scoop and for you. You've done everything possible to help Scoop for a very, very long time. You will continue to do whatever you can. I know you will because look what you have already gone through, so many things that at one time you didn't think you'd be able to do. Yet you have and you've done it brilliantly too. All you can do is to make however long Scoop is with you, to be the happiest for him possible and if this road is closed, the road that says you give him the best quality of life possible is not. So, just keep your head up, and enjoy all the days ahead, whether it is few or many. We all just do the best we can with the options we are given.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Doccy

03-23-2013, 11:18 PM

Hey Vicki,
So sorry to hear about the radiation. But like everyone else has said, you are giving Scoop the best gift of all and that is to be by his side and to love him. He is not alone and he has you to face this journey with. Both you and he are so brave. He is blessed to have a mama like you. You have fought for him and you are doing everything you can for him.

Hugs to you both.

Jessica and Doc

doxiesrock912

03-23-2013, 11:56 PM

Vicki,
never ever think that you're not doing enough. The fact that you're active on this forum proves otherwise. We do what we can for our furbabies, but ultimately what will be will be.

I'm also crying right along with you.

Medical and veterinary science hasn't gotten to the point where they have all of the answers like we wish they did. Hugs and kisses to you and your sweetie pie!

Trish

03-24-2013, 12:16 AM

Hi Vicki
This news sucks, sorry to hear radiation is not an option for wee Scoop. You got to keep going for your baby, one paw in front of the other and one day at a time. Did the specialist you saw give you any other ideas for Scoop? I hope you get to enjoy some happy times with Scoop this weekend, glad to hear he was eating! Celebrate the small things, that is what I try and do when things are looking tough.

Trish and Flynn xx

scoora

03-25-2013, 02:03 AM

Thank you everyone. Last week I had some hope and it had been a very long time since I felt a little relief. Now it is taken away and it hurts. It just really sucks that Scoop has to have one problem after another and maybe if I hadn't waited too long maybe it might be different. The radiation oncologist we saw sent me an email summary of our visit. When I have more time I will post some of her comments. She did say maybe someone else would do the radiation but she wasn't comfortable doing it. She did mention about stereotactic radiation which is what the Cyberknife is and also what Doc had done at the U of Florida. That requires most of the time only 1-3 treatments, so far less anesthesias. The doctor told me the cost could be twice the amount as conventional radiation.

Mel-Tia

03-26-2013, 09:20 AM

Thinking of you both today...

Mel
Xxxxx

molly muffin

03-26-2013, 02:21 PM

Hi Vicki,

You can't play the "what if" game with yourself, it will drive you crazy. You can look at your thread here and see everything that you have gone through and tried, so many different roads traveled, to help Scoop.
You are a good mom to him and you have taken care of him and done the absolute best possible for him.
Hang in there

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

jackiev

03-26-2013, 08:17 PM

I'm so sorry to read this, Vicky. My thoughts are with you and Scoop. Sending love and hugs.

scoora

03-27-2013, 10:04 AM

Appointment this morning with alternative medicine doctor to see about acupuncture, maybe diet.

Nika'sMom

03-27-2013, 11:14 AM

I think you are an amazing momma to your Scoop and he is lucky to have you :)...I am thinking of you and hoping you get some answers/help today...hugs and prayers, Lynda and Nika

goldengirl88

03-27-2013, 01:26 PM

Vicki:
I am curious to know if you have seen any change in Scoop's ability to swallow, and has his bark or anything changed tone? Does he ever sound like he has mucus in his throat?? Any funny swallowing or sticking his tongue out? The reason I am asking you this is Tipper has exhibited macro tumor behavior in the past, and since she is experiencing issues with her throat, I wonder if this could be the root cause?? Hope the accupuncture helps Scoop, he deserves a break and so do you. God Bless you both
Patti

scoora

03-28-2013, 02:23 PM

Patti, Scoop doesn't seem to have any problems when he swallows food. There are times, not quite as many recently, where he would just swallow and swallow like he was trying to swallow phelm. Then he would open his mouth kind of like he was gagging. He still does it but it doesn't seem like as much right now as he did. Scoop doesn't bark much at all since, I don't even remember for sure, maybe the fall. Maybe some of that is because he can't see but there have been a few times when he has barked and yes his tone has changed. It's been more high pitched and weaker sounding. He used to have a nice, strong, fairly deep bark. He used to lick his upper lip, nose when he did the swallowing thing. I had never heard that the swallowing, throat thing is macro related but who the heck knows. This whole thing is just the so hard to understand and deal with. Right now I am so frustrated and angry and upset, etc...
I hope Tipper doesn't have the macro and she will be just fine.
Prayers for your Tipper. Big hugs to you both.

PS-Scoop also has like a snotty nose sometimes. He sounds like he is trying to blow something out of his nose.

LabDad

03-28-2013, 02:43 PM

Hi Vickie,

I assume that Scoop has had a chest x-ray. Prayers still for you from Moo & myself. ;-)

molly muffin

03-28-2013, 05:58 PM

Hi Vicki,

What did the alternative medicine doctor have to say?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Trish

03-29-2013, 01:09 AM

Hi Vicki
Hope your appointment went well with the alternative vet today, be interesting to hear what they had to say about diet. Have a great day and weekend!
Trish xx

scoora

03-29-2013, 09:08 AM

Bob and Moo, Thank you for all your prayers. Scoop had a chest x-ray I think it was in Nov.

The alternative medicine vetspent a lot of time with us. She did acupunture on Scoop's spine, front legs and neck. Have an appointment for another session Thursday.

Not too much special about the diet. Said to do meat, doesn't matter what kind, sweet potatoes and veggies, all kinds, no onions. She wrote down percentages. She said to start with a small amount mixed with his other food. As the amounts get to be more than she will look at vitamins and minerals to add.

She had stuff for his diarrhea, which I bought. When I got home I talked to his vet and she wanted to start him on FortiFlora. I told her about the RX Clay from the alt. vet and she said I know nothing at all about that stuff. I'll have to check into it. So I didn't start the Clay.

I am just so frustrated and confused right now. Nothing is helping my baby. He has such a grumbly belly. It's always making noise. The vet stopped his Benazapril in the beginning of the week to see if that was causing the diarrhea. It didn't make a difference. Now that he started the probiotic she still doesn't want him to go back on the Benazapril. He still has the foamy pee from the protein in the urine. I took him in for a weight check the other day and he lost a pound. He can't afford to lose weight. It is all so freakin frustrating. It's bad enough all I do is worry about his tumor. I just wish these other things could be taken care of. Nothing at all wants to go right for my Scoop.

goldengirl88

03-29-2013, 07:01 PM

Vicki:
God Bless you and Scoop. Both of you have really been having a time of it. I feel your pain and frustration. What an awful mess things seem to be in for you two. You are a wonderful mom to Scoop, and it is really good he has you to keep trying to find help for him. You are just like me, you are searching for that miracle. I leave no stone unturned, but I am also frustrated and scared for my Tipper. This is exhausting for the caretaker, and sad for the suffering these babies go thru. Every day I think where is that magic wand to make this all go back to normal. Maybe Easter will bring a miracles. God Bless you, keep fighting for Scoop.
Patti

Simba's Mom

03-29-2013, 10:24 PM

Sending hugs to you and Scoop....Simba had that belly gurgling too for awhile it seems to have settled down some. I feed him a little food at a time, instead of two bigger meals..seems to work for Simba...Have a blessed Easter and praying for miracles for all our pups!!

Bo's Mom

03-29-2013, 11:34 PM

Praying for Scoop tonight and always. ((((HUGS))))

scoora

03-29-2013, 11:48 PM

Patti, Thank you
I don't know where to turn anymore. My husband says it's out of our hands.
I have been looking for that magic wand for quite sometime and I still haven't found it. I sure hope you do. I'm afraid I'm running out of time. I see things that I know what it means and I don't like it one bit. When it is just me and Scoop and Raleigh together, I just can't stop crying.

I read your thread and I know what you mean about the money. You want to do whatever you can to help your baby and they make it so hard with how much everything costs. If I had the money I would be planning a trip to NY or FL to see about stereotactic radiation. When we saw the radiation oncologist last week she said that stereotactic radiation is only 1-3 treatments and that would be an option for Scoop. She also said it costs twice as much as regular radiation. Regular radiation would have been $5000 plus $1000 for a CT scan. So if there would be any hope at all for my Scoop it would probably cost $12000. Doesn't that make you sick? It just tears me apart. I want to be able to do something and I can't.

scoora

03-30-2013, 12:05 AM

Letti, Thank you
It's hard with Scoop being diabetic and being afraid of him losing more weight. His pickiness with food makes things hard too. He does get chicken and some treats in between his meals. He used to love to eat anything but the IMS said the tumor is probably making him picky. Tomorrow(Sat.)will be 2 weeks Scoop has had diarrhea. I think his belly gurgles from that.

Wishing you a Happy Easter. Hugs to you and Simba.

scoora

03-30-2013, 12:09 AM

Belinda Rose, Thank you. I appreciate all the prayers for Scoop. He needs lots of them.

I hope you have a Happy Easter.
Hugs

doxiesrock912

03-30-2013, 01:02 AM

Vicki,
could Scoop have possibly picked up E-coli? Dr. Morgan mentioned that some dog's get exposed to it somehow and that it can be there for quite some time.

I remember Daisy having a very noisy stomach and diarrhea for almost 2 years which other vets assumed was IBD. Both things cleared up after Daisy was given Baytril for her recent skin infection. This is why the vet mentioned E-coli. IBD wouldn't be permanently resolved after finishing the Baytril it would come back.

It's worth asking about.

scoora

03-30-2013, 01:15 AM

Valerie, I will definitely keep that in mind. So far nothing else has helped. I will probably be talking to the vet early in the week. She seems to knock down any suggestions I make but after two other things not working maybe she'll consider it.
Thank you

doxiesrock912

03-30-2013, 01:56 AM

Vicki,

I'd honestly make the change to an IMS vet if the one that Scoop sees now is a general practitioner.

Also, you shouldn't have to feel like she's not listening and taking what you say to heart. Please find a more cooperative vet.

Skye

03-30-2013, 02:54 AM

I would definitely be seeing IMS not a regular vet. That in itself may just be the magic wand and it wont cost 12000 dollars.
The one link i posted short while ago.......about the doctor here in Texas, he is top of the tops for things I believe like what you all are battling. Wonder if phone consult would be acceptable and see if you and scoop could benefit from this doctor......is Texas to far to drive? OR he might be able to help refer you to someone...........that is closer to you.........or recommedations etc. Its worth a try right? come this far.......you got all of us to help you take each step.....sending you all love and hugs, and my heart embraces you both.....

Skye

03-30-2013, 03:02 AM

forti flora helped my little girl so much we dont miss a day of having that. She had grumbly tummy, bouts of angry potty or vomiting. and with her near fatal pancreatic attack we cant have any of that get unbalanced. nooo way that was horridly frightenly. forti flora has helped her sooooooooo much. knock on wood it continues to do so. and on the regular vet not knowing what the alternative doctor is suggesting doesnt surprise me. Eastern, Western, etc. all have different methods of treating and diagnosing and doesnt seem much knows much of the other. My IMS doctor and Nutritionist was explaining the differences to me and its really interesting how each field treats and test etc. And reasons to treat the way they do. So.....what I would suggest is having the alternative doctor call or email and copy you as well, explaining to your regualr vet what treatment plan is and why.

scoora

03-30-2013, 09:56 PM

I wonder how long it takes for the FortyFlora to work? Today was Scoop's forth day taking it. Still no difference.

Tina

03-31-2013, 01:54 PM

Hi Vicki,
First off - big hugs for you and Scoop. I haven't posted a lot to you, but have been following along and trying to keep caught up with all that has been going on with your boy.

My Jasper now has protein in his urine also, that we are now treating because the level got so high. The hope is that the treatment will stop the progression of whatever damage is causing the protein loss. He has had to be transitioned to a prescription kidney diet, which we had lots of trouble with, he got colitis which we have been battling for over a month. It seems to be better for the moment thankfully.

My vet started him on FortiFlora also. I went back and looked through my journal, and it looks like he really didn't show much improvement on it until about the 6th day, and that was just improvement, not normalization. He has been on it since 3/9, and his poops have looked consistently more normal since about 3/21 or so. So give it a little time for Scoop.

Jasper was also on metronidazole with the FortiFlora. He ended up being on it for 10 days, then a few days later got diarrhea again, and my vet put him back on a full 2 wk course along with starting the FortiFlora. I feel like the combination really made a difference. Is Scoop on metronidazole also? I didn't see that, sorry if I missed it.

Colitis definitely causes the tummy to gurgle. I hope the FortiFlora helps Scoop and things settle down for him. But again, it seems to take a little time to start making a difference, at least it did for us. My vet prescribed a 30 day course for Jasper, I am going to be afraid to stop it. The worry for us is that the prescription kidney diet is causing him problems, and we don't have a lot of options there. Although a bit different from Scoop, Jasper has had a lot of ups and downs and complications also with this illness. He is now actually Addison's due to getting toxic on the Lysodren when we started his Cushings treatment, and we had a devil of a time getting that under control. And now the kidney issues. My heart goes out to you Vicki, I so understand your frustration and sadness. Prayers to you and Scoop, and all of us struggling with this illness. Hang in there. While I have not posted often to you, you and Scoop are always in my prayers.

Love and hugs,
Tina and Jasper

scoora

04-01-2013, 01:53 AM

Hi Tina,
Thank you for letting me know about Jasper. Geez I wonder if protein in the urine and Colitis go hand in hand. So you're saying Jasper was on metronidazole and FortiFlora for 10 days, stopped both? Then had to go on another 2 weeks of both or 30 days? Sorry I'm a little confused. (Doesn't take much these days. My head just spins) So when he started showing improvement, he was on both? That is certainly worth mentioning to the vet.
Is Jasper on Benazapril for his protein in the urine? Did the vet stop his meds for the protein at all while battling the diarrhea? Did Jasper lose any weight while having the diarrhea?

Scoop was on metronidazole (Flagyl) for 5 days but not with the FortiFlora. He did 5 days of metronidazole. Didn't help. Then she stopped his Benazapril for a few days. Didn't help. Now he's on the FortiFlora, no metronidazole, no Benazapril. I wish she would put Scoop back on his Benazapril. That bothers me. His pee looks foamier. Scoop's poops are so runny and once in a while at the end of one there would be one or two pieces that would have a little shape. Scoop has become so picky with his food that a prescription diet won't work for him. The IMS said he could be picky because of his tumor affecting him.

I'm glad to hear Jasper's diarrhea has gotten better and I hope he will continue to improve with his Colitis and his protein loss and the Addison's. This disease is so tough. It's so heartbreaking they have to have one problem after another.

Thank you for always keeping Scoop in your prayers.
Prayers and big hugs for you and Jasper.

Tina

04-01-2013, 03:18 AM

Hi Vicki,
Sorry, I didn't word some of my post very clearly. Jasper was started on a 10 day course of metronidazole when he first broke with diarrhea, over a month ago now. We were concerned that the new kidney diet triggered it because it is higher in fat than the low fat diet he was eating before we discovered the protein in his urine. His poops improved but never did get back to what I would call normal during this 10 day metronidazole course. They were better, but still softer than normal.

After the meds were done, maybe 3 days later , he broke with diarrhea again. Very soft poo, with lots of mucous. (Ick!). My vet then started him back on metronidazole, this time she said she wanted him on it for a full 2 weeks. She thought that maybe we hadn't completely knocked down the colitis. She started him on the FortiFlora at the same time. The FortiFlora is prescribed for 30 days. He has finished the metronidazole as of 3/21 and continues on FortiFlora. Yes, things improved when he he was on metronidazole along with FortiFlora at the same time, I think that is what did the trick.

Jasper gets Enalapril for the proteinuria rather than Benazepril. They are both ACE inhibitors and act in the same way. When he got diarrhea the first time, he had just started the Enalapril, so I stopped it myself for a couple of doses, thinking that it caused the problem, but I don't think it did in Jasper's case. My vet said to restart it. I don't think that protein in the urine and colitis are related Vicki, I think it is just an unlucky coincidence. It is so hard when they have one thing after another. Diarrhea is especially tough.

I wonder if only 5 days on the metronidazole wasn't enough to get a handle on Scoops diarrhea. I would ask your vet about that, and also about having Scoop take both the metro and FortiFlora at the same time. Also, has the vet looked at a poop sample? Could he have a parasite or something else? I know my vet said that in the spring months they see tons of colitis here, and some others on the forum have mentioned that giardia is prevalent in the spring in their areas. Might be worth asking about.

I hope that clarifies things. Hang in there Vicki.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Mel-Tia

04-02-2013, 03:53 PM

Hey Vicki

Just wanted to check in and say hello and to let you know I am thinking of you both

Big hug to you and kisses to the boys

Mel
Xxxxx

scoora

04-02-2013, 11:12 PM

Thanks Mel. I'll be talking to you soon.

scoora

04-03-2013, 12:16 AM

Tina, Thanks for going over that again. Scoop pooped 3 times today. The first one was soft but pretty nicely formed. The next one a little softer and the last one even a little softer but not near as bad as they had been. Hopefully it will keep improving. We'll see what tomorrow brings. He's had 7 days of the FortiFlora. I talked to the vet today and told her about Jasper. She gave me a reason why she doesn't want Scoop on a long dose of Metronidazole but when she told me the reason didn't sink in. The vet did run a test on a sample and nothing was found.

Did Jasper have mucous in his poops every time he went? That's something I didn't see in Scoop's.

The vet said she could see Scoop continuing on the FortiFlora.

The alternative medicine vet called me today and said the reg. vet had called her. Soon after that the reg. vet called me and said she had talked to the alt. med. vet. Last week I told the vet I got some RX Clay from the alt. vet for Scoop's diarrhea. The vet didn't seem too happy and she would have to check into it so I didn't give him any. Today she told me that I could start it so that should help with the diarrhea. The vet still doesn't want me to start Scoop back on the Benazepril.

The vet wants to do another BG curve on Scoop next week so she said maybe she'll to do a urine protein test too.

How's Jasper doing? I hope things are going fine.

milosmom

04-03-2013, 08:46 AM

hi vicki i was wondering where you kids were.......glad to see that scoop is doing good.hope you are as well !!! patty(milo)meka xoxox

scoora

04-03-2013, 08:56 AM

Scoop's first poop of the day had some form to it. (fingers crossed, knocking on wood) Hopefully it is getting better.

Last week I think it was, I mentioned Scoop didn't seem to be doing the licking lips, swallowing, gagging thing too much. Well, spoke too soon. Since Saturday he has been doing it a lot more. It also seems like he tries to blow out of his nose an awful lot. Does anyone know anything about the sinuses being affected by the pituitary tumor?

scoora

04-03-2013, 09:00 AM

Hi Patty, Thanks. I'll be talking to you soon.

molly muffin

04-03-2013, 09:15 AM

Patti said that Tipper has a lot of mucus and she has been giving him Benadryl to try and loosen it up and help Tipper to breath easier. It could be that this is another thing that can be seen in some dogs with cushings? We know that anything like allergies, can be worse once the cortisol goes down.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

scoora

04-03-2013, 10:07 AM

Sharlene, I saw where Patti was giving Tipper Benadryl. I guess it could be allergies but Scoop had been doing that quite a while back and when I told the vet about it she didn't know what it was. It seemed a bit better for a while now it is worse. I can see what the vet thinks.

The vet and I talked about the hormone test that you have to send to the U. of Tenn. If it comes back abnormal is there medication for that? Can the high hormones be bad for them if not treated?

Squirt's Mom

04-03-2013, 10:23 AM

Hi Vicki,

I can pretty much tell you that the intermediate hormones, what the Uni of TN test looks at, are elevated. That is fairly common in cush pups across the board and studies have shown that Trilostane (Vetoryl) causes these hormones to elevate as well.

If I were you, I wouldn't put Scoop through the stress of another ACTH, which is how this test is done, nor waste the money on it. If you think you want to try to address these hormones, it is done via flax lignans and melatonin...and Lysodren is recommended by UTK (Uni of TN in Knoxville) for these hormones, but I wouldn't worry about that facet either. HOWEVER, with Scoop's diarrhea the lignans could make that situation much worse. I don't know that I would mess with starting him on anything else for now. If his system can find some sort of balance, then you might think about this. ;)

Hope ya'll have a good day!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

scoora

04-03-2013, 11:39 AM

Leslie, thanks. It helps to know about that.
It doesn't hurt him in any way to have these high hormones, does it?
You said not to put Scoop through the stress of another ACTH. He had one done 2 weeks ago and I am worried that his cortisol will keep dropping. He has to have an ACTH done to check that, right? There is no other way to make sure it is not too low, right? Is there a lot of stress on them when they have an ACTH done? The injectable stuff, is it hard on them?

Oh, this disease is so, so unbelievabley horrible! Someone please wake me up from this nightmare.

scoora

04-03-2013, 11:42 AM

Well, I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. Second poop of the day, nowhere as good as the first one.

Squirt's Mom

04-03-2013, 12:07 PM

Yes, the ACTHs are required to monitor treatment....but the one that checks intermediate hormones is a bit more expensive to do. You could have the next ACTH sent to UTK if you want to know about the intermediates and that wouldn't require a extra one just for UTK...but again, I think it would be a waste of money for little value. With the Trilo on board, it is pretty much a given the intermediates are elevated. Now whether that is causing problems you are seeing - I doubt it. Unfortunately, with the brain tumor present you may see all sorts of odd things and system dysfunctions. As the tumor grows, it will be pressing on areas of the brain, interfering with the signals normally sent through the body. With the signals blocked or redirected or scattered (very simply terms since I can't explain it in medical terms ;)), the body can't respond like it normally would. It's kinda like your utility bill going to your neighbors house - they are expecting a payment but you aren't even aware it's due...or you get a newspaper that is blank on the right hand side. You wouldn't be getting the information you need to respond appropriately.

The tumor may be the reason the vet doesn't want him on the Metronidazole - it can have neurological side effects. ;)

In my humble opinion, you are doing a superb job of caring for Scoop. I know it's not easy and I know you are looking for help, any help from any source...just as a good mom always will. I don't want to discourage you from this endeavor but wanted to let you know that I don't really think checking the intermediates will give you any beneficial information nor offer any thing that will help his current issues, and in fact could make some of the worse - like the diarrhea.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

scoora

04-03-2013, 01:30 PM

Wow Leslie, thanks for all the info.
So Metronidazole(Flagyl) has neurological side effects? You're not talking about Benazepril, right? The vet still hasn't put him back on that for his protein in the urine.

scoora

04-03-2013, 02:15 PM

addy

04-03-2013, 02:26 PM

http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/learning-center/professional-monographs/metronidazole-for-veterinary-use.html

It can have possible neurological side effects and should be used with caution if a dog has possible kidney and liver problems.

Zoe has been on a low dose of it for 2 years.

doxiesrock912

04-03-2013, 02:27 PM

Vicki,

radiation is no picnic. Scoop has so many health issues that a simple "sun burn" can be hard to recover from in itself.

Scoop's body is already trying to recover from so much and it seems like he's fighting hard. What might seem like a small thing really is not when a dog is already facing multiple health issues.

One more thing might undo any good that might be occurring now.
Baby steps, that's the way to go sometimes even though we want immediately resolutions.

Have I gotten it right Leslie?

scoora

04-03-2013, 02:38 PM

Addy, Thanks for the link. That was very informative.

labblab

04-03-2013, 06:04 PM

Leslie, I'm so sorry to hear Squirt is having problems. I really am. I hope and pray that things get better for her. You have been so helpful with all your knowledge and suggestions. They are appreciated so much.

I have a question. Please don't take it the wrong way. I must think differently from others and maybe you can help me understand. When you said about not putting her through heroic measures, how does anyone know what is an heroic measure? How can anyone be sure if doing something will or will not help? Like with the radiation everyone said about not putting Scoop through that. They say radiation doesn't hurt except maybe a "sunburn" in that area. How do you know something will or won't help unless you try it? I felt if something (God forbid) would have happened, is it going to make a difference? He's doomed from that horrible tumor anyway. The way things are going it probably won't be too much longer so why not try. Everyone has their own opinion and that's fine. It just hurt seeing that everyone seemed to agree with the doctor's decision to not do it. Am I wrong or selfish or a bad mom to Scoop for wanting to do this or whatever I can? I guess I don't understand why something can't help him.
I'm sorry to bring this up on your thread but when I read what you wrote it just hit me hard. I am having such a hard time. Thanks for listening.
Dear Vicki,

You will see that I have made a copy of your reply to Leslie (and also Valerie's reply to you) and added it to your own thread here. This way, Leslie will still see it, but it will be much easier for all of us to talk with you directly rather than over on Leslie's thread.

I want you to know that my heart goes out to you. There is no worse feeling than wondering what is the right thing to do for your baby. And my heart especially resonates with you because I also feared that is was an enlarging macro that caused the awful changes in my own beloved Cushpup. It is so hard to know when to press forward, and when to ease back. And the decision is made all the more painful because we cannot ask our babies what they would want for themselves. We have to make the decision for them and hope it is the best.

I will add this about conventional radiation, since we also considered it for our own boy but decided against it. I believe the major issue with the radiation is not the sunburn effect on the skin. It is the fact that with conventional radiation treatment, the dog has to be placed under a general anesthetic time after time after time. So this means multiple trips to the treatment center (or the dog being left at the treatment center for the duration), IV needles placed, and the ever-present risk of adverse reactions to the anesthetic including respiratory crisis, brain damage, and even death. For our dog, the treatment regimen would have involved at least a dozen anesthetics over a 4-5 week time period. Our dog had suffered through so many needles and so many vet visits by then. And he hated every one. He would start trembling with fear the instant he thought we were even headed in the direction of the vet. We knew we couldn't explain the purpose of the radiation to him. It was just something he would have to endure. He was a very sick boy by then, with many problems. And so we did not have the heart to make him go through the treatments after everything else we had asked of him. Now, I am not trying to say that would be the right decision for anybody else, especially for a dog who was less compromised or less fearful than ours. But I am just trying to explain why there can be many questions and issues involved in deciding whether or not to go forward with a treatment that is as aggressive as that.

When you love your babies the way we all love ours, it is hard to find a balance between our minds and our hearts. We hope so much to make things better. But at the same time, we don't want to inflict too much anxiety or pain or discomfort on our babies if a treatment holds only minimal hope for improvement. At that point, sometimes the kindest thing we can do is just let our babies be free of treatment and free of vet visits for their remaining time. It is a tough, tough call. And either way, the decisions can be so hard to live with. My mind and even my heart tells me that my husband and I made the right decision about not proceeding with radiation. But to this day, during my darker hours, I still wonder if my boy might have gotten better if we had chosen differently. Since none of us has a crystal ball, there is no way to know for certain. And because of that, I don't think there is any way to escape lingering questions as to what was really the best thing to do.

Vicki, I know this is such a hard time for you. And I am sending you many, many hugs as you struggle with these decisions. But I want you to know that WE know that all your decisions for Scoop are based on your love for him. You love him so much and you know him so well. So you are truly the best judge as to how much to ask of him, and when to ease off in order to give him some peace. And we will be here for you no matter where your decisions lead you.

Marianne

Bo's Mom

04-03-2013, 06:49 PM

Vicki,
Give Scoop belly rubs from us in Texas.

StarDeb55

04-03-2013, 07:07 PM

Vicki, I'm not sure if I have ever posted to you & Scoop, if I have, it's been awhile. I have been reading your posts on Scoop & I have been very heartbroken as to how poorly he has been doing.

I will relate my experience with my 1st cushpup, Barkley, when he developed lymphoma. He was 13 years old, had been living with Cushing's for about 8 years, along with severe allergies, & 2 cruciate ligament repairs. In other words, this boy had been through the "wringer" medically. When he initially became ill, it took 2 weeks to get the lymphoma diagnosed which was finally done by an IMS. When she told me, I thought to myself, how can I put him through anything else. I decided to go ahead & get a consult with an oncologist who proceeded to tell me that lymphoma kills very quickly, 4-6 weeks. I was speechless, as we had wasted 2 weeks to get to a diagnosis. I did decide to go ahead with chemotherapy which bought Barkley another 20 months with an excellent quality of life. I must say that I had to really consider this as it required weekly trips to the oncologist where B had to have an IV hooked for about 2 hours to receive his chemo, along with a preliminary blood draw to make sure his blood counts were ok to get chemo. It was an awful lot to ask of him, but I also knew in those 2 weeks prior to diagnosis that I was watching this boy literally die before my eyes. Even with the chemo, it got to the point where B lost his remission, 2 other different drugs gave him a very brief remission, & the last month before he passed was really not all that great. I was absolutely scared to death that I would hang on too long for me, & not do the right thing for my boy. His oncologist kept telling me that I would know when it was "time". She was right, I got home on afternoon from work, B always waited for me in underneath the dining room table where he could watch the garage door for me to come in. I came in, he struggled up to greet me. I took one look at him & started crying because he really looked like he was telling me, "Mom, I am so very tired of feeling bad, of all the trips to the vet, all the tests, needles, etc. Please do the last kind thing you can for me." We had an appointment with the oncologist that afternoon, & I told him ok. It was really time, & I knew it. This boy had been about 22-23 lbs all of his life. He was done to about 16 lbs. He was losing huge quantities of hair from some type of unidentified skin infection because his immune system was absolutely shot. I know to this day I did the right thing, but 10 years later, I miss him every day, & the tears are trickling down my face as I type this.

Marianne, is absolutely correct, you know Scoop best & how much more he can tolerate when it comes to treatment. Any decision, we all know, you will make from your heart, & more importantly Scoop knows that you are trying to do the best that you can for him.

My thoughts & prayers are with both of you.

debbie

doxiesrock912

04-03-2013, 08:01 PM

Oh Debbie!
You're not the only one crying. I hate to hear stories like this, but more often than not, we have to make that decision. I've done so in the past.

I also never doubted that it was the right decision though. You do know.

Hugs.

Bo's Mom

04-03-2013, 10:05 PM

Vicki,
I just need to also chime in on what Marianne and others have said about the decisions that need to be made about Scoop. For me, it was when I was told that Bo probably had a macro and the only thing that could give him a few more months would be radiation. The tears and panic overtook my body at that time but I knew I had to make the decision for Bo and what was best for him. I knew in my heart that he could not withstand what it would have taken to do radiation. But, for Scoop things may be different. I looked into Bo's eyes and Bo told me that he would not be able to handle it. We made those last few months as comfortable for him as we could. I am not going to lie to you, they were difficult months. The pain in my heart knowing that any day was just one more day closer to the day we had to make that dreadful and most heart-breaking decision. Tears still flow daily and our lives will never be the same but it is peaceful knowing he is no longer suffering the effects of this dreadful disease. For him, cushings was what took him. But, it is not like that for everyone. And, that is why you have to make the decision based on what you know about Scoop and what you know he can take/handle. I will say prayers for you and Scoop that you are guided in making a choice based on what you know is best. Peace and hugs.

goldengirl88

04-04-2013, 10:37 AM

Vicki:
Sorry I missed a lot of what Scoop is going thru as I had to go to the Dr. for my Lupus and could not post. I read everything. I told you Tipper seems to have mucus or something in her throat. She snorts out a lot and it could be tracheal, not sure. We had a lot of wind yesterday and I noticed when it blew in her face the snorting like she couldn't take all the air in. I guess I will have the answers on the 11th when she goes under and gets scoped or gets an MRI. I feel so bad for all the pressure and decisions you are having to make. I have prayed to God every night to give your Scoop a miracle. I am like you, if I knew I was faced with a macro tumor situation, I may consider the radiation out of panic. I may find out my biggest fear on the 11th if they tell me she has a macro. I give you a lot of credit for forging on and still trying to help your boy. God only knows if I am faced with that what I will do. I can see everyones point not to put them thru suffering of radiation, but I also see the point of loving your dog so much you have to try to save their life somehow. I am crying for you as I am typing this I know where your heart is, and have all the empathy in the world for you. My Tipper has such a good quality of life except for the sleeping at night trying to breathe, and mucus. I would have a hard time justifying not trying to save her life. My problem is this radiation is so expensive I don't know where I would get the money. They make these procedures so expensive for the average person, that you shouldn't have to deny your dog treatment because you cannot afford it. I am sure whatever you do will be the right thing for you and Scoop, and I support you whole heartedly in your decision. The horrible disease is enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown. You are doing so well with all this I commend you, as I don't know if I will have your strength when needed. God Bless you Vicki, I am pulling for you and Scoop to get thru all this.
Patti

Squirt's Mom

04-04-2013, 10:57 AM

Dear sweet Vicki,

I tried a couple of times yesterday to answer you but just couldn't. I tried to type a reply in Word last nite so it would be ready this morning and I just couldn't. So I let myself believe today would be easier....it's not. It won't get easier. I wish I could tell you what the "right" thing for you and Scoop is but I can't; I can only tell you about Squirt and me. You know your baby boy better than anyone, you hear his heart's desire when no one else can. You know what he can and cannot tolerate today. Your love for him has carried his this far and your love will carry him the rest of the way perfectly. Of this, I have no doubt whatsoever...and neither does Scoop.

The last five years have taken a psychological toll on Squirt as well as physical. She has had to go to the vet so much and have so many things done to her that were unpleasant that now she stresses and fights from the second she realizes where she is going. She is very smart and we have to pass my brother's place, where we lived for a while, to get to the vet. Once we pass his driveway, she starts stressing. His place is almost half way between ours and the vet's so for at least 15 minutes she is building panic in the car. The road is narrow and twisting, and she wants to stand, which could damage her back legs...and that would be the end right then. So we both stress and panic on the way to the vet. She struggles with any and every thing they try to do, coming home hurting and worn completely out. It's a little over an hour on the road round trip to the vet for us and most of the trip is hard on Squirt not to mention the actual exam. It now takes 3-4 folks to hold her just to trim her nails or draw blood...and I have to leave the room or they cannot do it period.

When she was younger, I was willing to do anything it took to "fix" her. She's been put under four times in 13 years - that's a whole lot of anesthesia for a small body in a short period of time. When she had to have her back leg redone 2 years ago, I pretty much knew that would be the last time she got anesthesia - there would be no more for my baby girl. Since then, I have contemplated the lengths I should go to on her behalf - how much is too much? She is now 15, and it doesn't take much to be "too much". Just the trip to the vet is almost too much for her.

When it is her time, she doesn't want to leave lying on a cold operating table or in a lonely, hard cage...she wants to be in a familiar place, in familiar arms, surrounding by the things she loves and those who love her. And she deserves no less. She has given me her all for 15 years. Everything I have done for her was for me, me. She was too young to have problems and I wanted her with me for a long time...I wanted, I wanted, I wanted. I was able to make those things happen and she was able to accept them. I am a very selfish person and I still want her with me for a very long time to come...but she can't take any more. Now it's my turn to accept her directions. This time, what I want most is impossible.

Many years ago, I was at the vet's with one of my babies when an elderly lady came out of the back exam area holding a blanket-wrapped dog close to her chest. I thought she must have had to have her baby put down and said something to the receptionist about it. She told me that no, sadly the dog was still alive and the lady simply could not let it go. The dog was blind and deaf, had no teeth, couldn't pee or poop on it's own, couldn't stand, couldn't swallow and had only wisps of hair. The lady brought her baby in every day to have IV nutrients given, the bladder and intestines emptied, and water pockets put under the skin to keep the dog hydrated. This story and the image it provided has never left me and I have often thought how incredibly selfish that lady was, how cruel she was, and I believed that I would never let something like that happen. But I have come to understand her completely today. I want Squirt with me until my last breath. I want us to lie down together and expel our final breath as one. There are no words to express how very badly I want this, none. But it cannot be.

Life is a Dance. As infants, we watch and listen, learning the moves; as youths we take what we have seen and make it our own, gyrating with wild abandon; as we mature we glide across the floor with grace and confidence; and when we are old, we sit on the sidelines, tapping our toes to the music. The days of jitterbugging and head banging are over for Squirt and me...and they cannot be brought back, only remembered. We still have times that we can execute a slow Waltz but most days we simply hold each other and sway to the music. The time has come, for us, to let that be enough and be grateful for every moment that comes.

Many hugs, sweet lady,
Leslie and the gang

Jenny & Judi in MN

04-04-2013, 04:40 PM

I've got no words of wisdom. Just love and support. hugs, Judi

goldengirl88

04-05-2013, 09:28 AM

Vicki:
Can't stop thinking of you and Scoop. God Bless you both. I know this is one of the most trying times of your life Vicki. You are doing wonderful, and I am here to support you. I love what Leslie posted to you. I think that is also how I feel about Tipper, but could not articulate it. There was a lot of wisdom behind that posting, that I too will keep in my mind. Please give Scoop a hug from Tipper and I. I wish I could take away your pain. God Bless you both.
Patti

Skye

04-06-2013, 02:40 AM

thinking of you..............thinking of your darling scoop. Leslie wrote it out well.....she spoke straight from her very soul, I too want nothing more or less than for my girl and i to take our final beat of our hearts together...to lay down and awake in heaven in perfect health and mind together forever.
You know your baby better than anyone........listen to scoop....he will give you direction....if different than what your heart is leading.....bond this with scoop....open your heart, and perhaps there will be a way to know where when and what to do. Regardless this part of the journey may be difficult....as you already know......I get the air knocked out of me at the thought of not being with my girls........i seriously nearly drop and cant breathe. I will fight fight fight and lay my life down in less than a heart beat for them, a mommas heart is like that you know. Couple years ago...i lost a my highschool best friend. she fought a courageous battle of breast cancer.....she was wife, mother of two, and daughter and sister. her mom was by her side.....her mom by the side of her child after years of watching her daughter endure and fight....my friend said to her mother.....mom....i am tried....is it okay to go now?......her mom didnt want to tell yes......but she knew she loved her so much....she had to say yes.............a mothers heart knows the heart of her babies best, it knows how to listen, I had a pug named Beau. My little boy. He was 13 1/2 years old when he told me goodbye. He was blind, deaf, no teeth, struggled with some breathing, didnt want him to fall on tiles and not be able to get up type thing, I knew he was not doing so good, of course worried out of my mind, one morning, it was crystal clear, he let me know, it was time for me to let go, he had watched over me every single day, gave me more care and love it was amazing, you will know to continue and pursue the fight, or to hold back from the battle, your like me somewhat perhaps...i am all in full throttle will do what ever i need to do to save my baby...until they say mom i am tried is it okay if i go now, until then, love and embrace every single moment.

goldengirl88

04-06-2013, 09:42 AM

Vicki:
I know how you must be feeling. I am praying for you and Scoop that you may find your way through this. God Bless You Both.
Patti

Skye

04-07-2013, 12:45 AM

hmmmmm, stopping by to see how you and scoop are..........has anyone heard from her????

scoora

04-08-2013, 09:23 AM

I was just on here typing away and it went away on me so here it goes again.
Thank you for all your kind words. Your posts are so touching and from the heart. I was here last week and read them and just couldn't come back till now. It has been so hard. I am struggling so much. I just don't know what's right and what's not. I have been in touch with the doctor from the Cyberknife. I have always had a hard time making decisions. This one is for the life of my Scoop and I am struggling so much. I feel like my heart is going to pop right out of my chest. I want to feel like I gave Scoop all the chances I could but I don't want to hurt him. I just love him so much my heart is breaking. Please God give me strength and guidance.

goldengirl88

04-08-2013, 09:36 AM

Vicki:
God help you and Scoop. This has to be the most heart wrenching time in your life. I am trying to put things in God's hands at this point, and I am asking him for mercy on all these babies suffering from this disease. I know what it is to get to the point that you don't know what is right. It is very difficult to love your dog so much that you don't know which way to turn. I have to get myself and Tipper thru this week. It will be a challenge. I have you and Scoop in my heart, and will be thinking of you every minute. May God give you the strength to carry on.
Patti

labblab

04-08-2013, 09:44 AM

Vicki, it is so good to hear from you again, and I am sending you so many hugs this morning!!! But I am just going to talk to you for a moment from my head now as opposed to my heart. I know you said earlier how extremely expensive the cyberknife procedure would be, and I know what a burden that would be for you and your family. So please be sure to get these questions answered before making your decision.

Do they expect that the tumor will again regrow at some point after the procedure? If so, how long a time would Scoop get relief before neurological symptoms might return again?

Do they expect that the procedure will eliminate the need for Cushing's treatment, or will Scoop still need to continue to take his trilostane as he has been doing?

I do think these are really important answers for you to know before you make a decision. With conventional radiation, the tumor reduction is typically not permanent nor does it necessarily provide relief from Cushing's other than the neurological abnormalities. I do not know whether the results are different with the cyberknife, so I think it is important for you to find out before you make your decision.

Marianne

Squirt's Mom

04-08-2013, 09:44 AM

Dear Vicki,

There is no doubt in my mind you will always do what is right for Scoop, just as you have done right by him so far. And you are the only one who knows what is best for him. Talk to the experts, listen to what they have to say with an open mind then take that information and let your heart be your guide. There are no "wrong" decisions when those decisions are made out of love for Scoop. Your sweet boy trusts you in every way and he knows you would never harm him. You are a great mom, Vicki. Don't let anything make you think differently.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Please feel free to talk to me anytime in private if you wish. I have no answers but I do understand what you are feeling - the confusion, the anguish, the guilt, the abject fear. Many of us understand and we are here for you anytime. Remember, you are not alone, never alone.

Many hugs and belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

scoora

04-08-2013, 10:06 AM

Marianne, Thanks. Those are some questions I would like answered along with some others. I wondered if the tumor was smaller would Scoop's diabetes be better? Would he not have protein in the urine? Would he not have to be on so many meds? All those things that have come up since he was diagnosed with Cushing's. It would be worth all the money in the world to me to see Scoop have some time left where he wouldn't want to sleep most of the day, not have to take so many pills, etc. Just to feel better. How can one stinkin disease cause so many problems for one dog and nothing for others? Months ago when I asked my husband about radiation what he said was, no, you're just delaying the inevitable. When the IMS asked if anyone talked to me about radiation I told her what my husband said. She said, isn't that what we are all doing? So my mind is all over the place. I just feel like I am being torn apart.

scoora

04-08-2013, 10:13 AM

Leslie, Thank you. I'll keep your offer in mind.
You all are such wonderful, caring friends.

scoora

04-08-2013, 10:17 AM

Patti, Thank you. I hope you and Tipper can come through this week with some answers that will not be difficult on both of you.

labblab

04-08-2013, 10:19 AM

Vicki, I think those are all excellent questions and I am really glad you've put them together to ask. With the conventional radiation, it was my understanding that the only thing it could do with certainty was hopefully eliminate the neurological problems for a period of time (the circling, not eating or drinking, the confusion, etc.). But all the rest of the Cushing's symptoms could still remain because the pituitary tumor was not being eliminated -- just reduced back to the smaller size that is typical for other Cushpups. Now the situation could be different with the cyberknife, but you do need to find that out. Because it would be horribly disappointing if you went into the procedure expecting to see a huge difference in Scoop's other health issues if that expectation is not likely.

scoora

04-08-2013, 10:23 AM

Skye, Thank you. I sure hope things become clear. Right now it doesn't feel like it will and I will struggle with this, in my mind, the rest of my life.
Thanks for checking on us.

milosmom

04-08-2013, 10:25 AM

good morning vicki and i must agree with leslie this dreaded disease gets the best of us and our pups. know that you are the best mom ever to your baby scoop !!! and we are all here listening,supporting and sending you our prayers.hope today the sun is shining for you ...patty(milo)meka xoxox

scoora

04-08-2013, 10:32 AM

Marianne, Yes I do hope with a smaller tumor things would be better but I know there's a chance they won't be but I remember reading someone's thread from a couple years ago where the tumor was destroyed. I know that is not usually the case but I guess you never can be sure how it will turn out.
I feel like a little kid who just doesn't know how to make the right decision. This just sucks to have to make a decision like this.

LabDad

04-08-2013, 11:33 AM

Hi Vicki,

You must be going through a really tough time. And I think you have some good things said by Squirt's Mom and others. Do listen to the experts. And know you are the best mom Scoop and Raleigh could ever ask for. My wife and I are continue to say prayers for you and your babies!

Jenny & Judi in MN

04-08-2013, 12:23 PM

It does suck. hugs, Judi

scoora

04-08-2013, 01:07 PM

Bob, Moo and Judi-Thank you

addy

04-08-2013, 02:23 PM

It all sucks, big time and we, none of us, should have to be making these heart wrenching decisions but this is what we were dealt and we all do the best we can. So we hold onto each other as tight as we can, no matter what, we are here for each other and there is no judgement or wrong decisions when faced with situations like this. It all comes from the heart.

But as Marianne said, from the head, I think these are all valid questions that need answers so you have an accurate picture.

love and hugs dear Vicki

Simba's Mom

04-08-2013, 07:13 PM

Sending healing hugs to you and Scoop!

molly muffin

04-08-2013, 07:20 PM

Hi Vicki. Hugs to you and Scoop.

This is a terrible time, when you just don't know where to turn and what to do next to try and make things better. I too think you have a valid set of questions to ask and that the answers might be a guide for you to help know what to do.

It all comes down to evaluation of possibilities with this disease. If we do this, what will the likely result be, what are the chances things will improve vs the chances that they won't. How risky is the procedure to Scoop, what are his chances of surviving the procedure.
In the end, it is quality of life. We use the medications to try and give our babies the best quality of life possible for the time they have left here on earth with us. We do all these procedures and tests to know what will help them the most to give them that quality of life we want for them.

We evaluate every opinion given by the experts by our friends here on the fourm who have been through this themselves and then we try to take it all and make a decision and it is still hard to know what to do and half the time I think we are guessing and hoping. Lists can help, many many lists. List of what recommendations have been made and what can be ruled out, what has helped so far and what has not. At leas that is one method that I've been known to us. Not everyone is a list person. :)

My heart goes out to you as this is so difficult.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Bo's Mom

04-08-2013, 09:05 PM

Continued prayers of strength be sent to you. Please give Scoop some kisses on the nose for us.

jmac

04-09-2013, 12:27 AM

Hi Vicki,

Just want you to know I'm thinking of you and Scoop. I can imagine tge agony you're feeling trying to make decisions. I'm sending you lots of positive thoughts.

Julie & Hannah

goldengirl88

04-09-2013, 09:07 AM

Good Morning Vicki:
Just wanted to let you know that I am praying very hard for you and Scoop. I am begging God to show you some mercy and help you get Scoop thru this. The thought of what you are having to endure kills me. I pray for you and Scoop to find your way.
Patti

Skye

04-11-2013, 02:54 AM

Is texas to far away for you and scoop to travel and see doctors? we have Texas Gulf Coast Specialist and Texas A&M.............do you think you would be able to get any help there? or speak to the doctors there? I know its hard for you to even breathe right now........your soul is shattering............God speed you strength and peace...may the answers surface. if nothing has to be decided immediately........dont....just breathe a moment if you can. sending hugs.

scoora

04-11-2013, 09:03 AM

Addy, Letti, Sharlene, Belinda, Julie, Patti, Skye-Thank you all for your prayers and good wishes for Scoop. I have such a hard time with decisions no matter what they are and this is the toughest one I've had to face. I see Scoop do things and I'm so sure it's the tumor and I think to myself, that's it. I have to do whatever. Then I stop and think and get confused all over again. It hurts so much when I see him acting strange or doesn't want to take food that you just never thought he would refuse.

Skye-Texas is far to travel but thank you for making that suggestion. If I could my choice would be U of FL. That's also too far. That would be if the decision for stereotactic radition would be made.

goldengirl88

04-11-2013, 09:16 AM

Vicki:
My God I just realized where you are located. I lived in the South Hills my whole life, up until moving here. I come back to Pgh. to go to my Dr. all the time. What a small world it is. What practice do you take Scoop to and where are they located? Tipper and I are holding out for a miracle for Scoop. He so deserves to be well. I am very familiar with Whitehall, and have friends living there. Maybe with the nicer temperatures you could go outside and sit with Scoop and let him enjoy the smells outdoors. GOd Bless You Both.
Patti

scoora

04-11-2013, 09:56 AM

Patti, I live in Whitehall but it is located just north of Allentown. It's a little over an hour north of Phila. I have heard there is a Whitehall near Pitts. but I'm in eastern PA. Too bad it isn't closer maybe we could have met up somewhere. It takes about 4.5-5 hours to get to Pitts from where I am.

Patti, Thank you for all your prayers for Scoop. They are so much appreciated. He does deserve to be well, as all our babies do. Scoop has always been such a good boy!

scoora

04-11-2013, 10:37 AM

I read an article on the VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital website. Dr. Bruyette talks about surgery done on dogs for pituitary tumors. Then he mentons that Cedars-Sinai researchers have identified a substance that shrinks this kind of tumor in a laboratory environment. He said a clinical trial is in the planning stages to see how it works on living dogs. This article is from Dec. 2010. Has anyone ever seen this or heard if they conducted the trial?

molly muffin

04-11-2013, 11:25 AM

Hi Vicki,

I found an article from 2011: http://www.dogaware.com/articles/newscushingssurgery.html

In it Cedars was looking for dogs for trials to try and shrink the pituitary tumor.
Looks like the best person to contact for information is Dr. Bruyette.
Maybe you could give them a call, find out if they ran the trials, are still looking for dogs and get more information.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

scoora

04-11-2013, 11:28 AM

On Tuesday Scoop spent the day at the vet's for a BG curve. Not only do I pay for the curve, I also pay a days stay for them to keep him there. Boy was I mad when I picked him up. My boys have always been spoiled. They get chicken and carrots when I eat lunch and again when my husband and I eat supper. They also get treats in the afternoon. So I have to take along on BG curve days what Scoop ususally eats during the day and they are supposed to give it to him at the times I say. I send a note with times(I also mark the times on the baggies) and other instructions about him being used to going out every 2-3 hours, making sure they hold a short, tight leash because of him being off balance walking on uneven grass and offering him water esp. after he eats something. I'm afraid he won't know where the water is because of him being blind and not being used to where it is. The vet leaves early on Tuesdays. When I picked Scoop up his chicken and carrots from supper were still in the baggie. I asked the tech if he was offered them and refused to eat or if they weren't offered. She said she thinks they weren't offered because they were busy. That makes me so mad they can't take a few minutes to take care of Scoop. While I was checking out at the desk I was holding Scoop. He was trying to get down but I was afraid he had to pee so I just held him. Well we get outside and I took him to the grass. Boy did he have to pee. When we got home about 10 minutes later, he peed more. Then he pooped quite a bit and peed some more. We went inside and he took a big drink of water. Then soon after we got home it was time for Scoop to get his dog food and his insulin shot. So after that I took him out to pee again, which is the routine. When we came in Scoop went into one of his episodes. He wouldn't settle down. He vomited up phelgm. Then twice he vomited up his supper. Soon after the last vomiting he settled down and went to sleep. What a bad day for Scoop.
When the vet called me on Wed. I told her I wasn't happy and told her everything. She said she left early but she saw him being walked. I wonder what time that was! She said next time she'll write it on the board. Well why wasn't it written on the board this time, geez! I hate having to leave him there.
The vet and I were talking about things with Scoop. She called him an enigma.(sp?) My poor baby. Why did he have to get this horrible disease and nothing goes right for him.

goldengirl88

04-11-2013, 12:02 PM

Vicki:
This is heart wrenching to see how little attention they paid to Scoop. He has so many other issues you would think they would be glad to help with anything they can in order to make him comfortable. Every time I take Tipper and one of the techs. takes her I always tell her about being careful of Tipper's throat and rear legs, no slippery surfaces etc. They seem to get an attitude with me, and say "yea I remember about it." I don't care if they like being reminded every time or not as the time they aren't careful she might not be able to walk. Where is the empathy in these Veterinary offices? When you are talking about money though they hear that, and pay attention to that . I've tried being kind and sweet, and taking the girls little treats etc. Nothing seems to work, they just don't seem to give a damn. Poor Scoop like a little TLC would be too much work for them. He suffers enough without that crap. I would be thru the roof too. It's funny they do not seem to support a consciencous owner who loves and painstakingly cares for their dog, and even tries to make their job easier with the food and instructions etc. Sometimes you feel so alone fighting this battle. That staff needs a good swift kick in the butt, and that Vet should be reaming them out thoroughly. Now he is home in the comfort he deserves with his loving mommy to protect him. You are doing a very commendable job Vicki, I take my hat off to you as you have bravely endured all of these ups and downs. May God Bless Scoop with a miracle.
Patti

scoora

04-11-2013, 01:21 PM

Oh thank you Patti. I always write things down if he has to stay and I mention things to whoever takes him. I don't know. Right now with everything that's going on I just want to SCREAM! A few times when Scoop had to get eyedrops for his ulcer the vet was afraid he wouldn't get the attention he needed so she let me run him back and forth every two hours but now she thinks that causes too much stress and could raise his BGs. If he doesn't get the food I take that could cause the BG readings to be not a true reading.

Simba's Mom

04-11-2013, 01:37 PM

Poor Scoop, I understand that they can get busy, but we are paying them to take care of our babies! We trust them, they should do better, it's hard enough on us and our babies to be separated, too bad this has to happen...hope Scoop feels better!

molly muffin

04-11-2013, 01:41 PM

Oh Vicki, what a horrid day. That seems so unfair to poor Scoop. He doesn't know why he isn't getting his food on time, or isn't getting to go to the bathroom as he is use to or get his water where needs it. Poor guy. You know, maybe tell the vet, it isn't any more stressful for him to be in the car With you than it is for him to be there and not get his food, walks and water at the times needed. so. Hmmph on that.
HUGS Vicki! I think you need a few of those today. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

doxiesrock912

04-11-2013, 02:28 PM

Poor Scoop!
Hopefully the vet staff will cooperated better next time:(

Mel-Tia

04-11-2013, 02:44 PM

I totally agree with Sharlene

Big hug from me
Xxxx

Oh Vicki, what a horrid day. That seems so unfair to poor Scoop. He doesn't know why he isn't getting his food on time, or isn't getting to go to the bathroom as he is use to or get his water where needs it. Poor guy. You know, maybe tell the vet, it isn't any more stressful for him to be in the car With you than it is for him to be there and not get his food, walks and water at the times needed. so. Hmmph on that.
HUGS Vicki! I think you need a few of those today. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Bo's Mom

04-11-2013, 06:35 PM

Scoop,
Next time someone who is watching you isn't doing their job, lift your leg to them and give them a big squirt. :p. Maybe next time they will listen.

Vicki,
My heart aches for you everyday. I read your post and just know how your heart is just breaking. Please know we are all here for you and Scoop and will help with whatever you need....we are really great at doing that as you continue on your journey of helping your little guy.

doxiesrock912

04-11-2013, 07:17 PM

Belinda Rose, that's an awesome idea :) Sometimes actions speak louder than words!

goldengirl88

04-12-2013, 10:02 AM

Vicki:
Just checking in on the little Scoopster. What is he up to today? Hope he has now forgotten about the fiasco the other day. It seems dogs are so forgiving of careless people.Hope you both have a good day.
Blessings to you both.
Patti

Skye

04-13-2013, 01:02 AM

that makes me LIVID!!!!!!! how would they like it if it was THEM being treated that way, or their child or their family. GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! makes me want to put alittle web cam on their collar or harness and spy on them. and then play it back for them and say you bring your baby there to get help not to cause more chaotic once back at home. Just heartless of them.
Your a beautiful mom to scoop. Beautiful. Your love and care is the number one reason he has the fight in him he does. bless his sweet pugger heart. Love scoop. love scoopster.

goldengirl88

04-13-2013, 09:17 AM

Vicki:
Just checking in on sweet Scoop, I hope you two are having a restful and peaceful weekend. Hugs to you both and Blessings as always.
Patti

milosmom

04-13-2013, 11:05 AM

good morning vicki.... also checking in on you kids.will look for you later...patty(milo)meka xoxox

Simba's Mom

04-13-2013, 07:18 PM

Checking in on Scoop too, hope you both have a great weekend!

goldengirl88

04-14-2013, 09:19 AM

Vicki:
Hoping you and Scoop had a good weekend. We are in for some nice weather so maybe Scoop can go out and get some good smells outside. God Bless You Both.
Patti

addy

04-14-2013, 09:41 AM

Hi Sweetie,

Sorry you had such an upsetting day. I hope Scoop recovered from the stress. It is so hard to relinquish control to someone else even for a day.

hugs to you and your sweet boy

Skye

04-15-2013, 01:37 AM

thinking of you and scoop. ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

scoora

04-15-2013, 01:57 AM

Thanks everyone for thinking of us. I spent the evening reading about EPI, SIBO and vitamin B12 deficiency. Tara on the diabetes forum said a lot of Scoop's belly troubles sound like SIBO symptoms. I'll have to see what the vet thinks. She wants a urine sample tomorrow to check Scoop's protein in the urine. He hasn't been on his Benazapril for a couple of weeks. I can't imagine the results will be any good.

Skye

04-15-2013, 02:16 AM

did you see if the one specialist at A&M could offer any suggestions? or know of any further avenues of treatment that would help? think of you and scoop alot. and i was glad to see your post this evening.

milosmom

04-15-2013, 08:39 AM

morning vicki.... so sorry scoop is not feeling well.i am thinking of you two and praying that you can find some peace and less stress today.sending you so much love,support,hugs and strength....patty(milo)meka xoxox

goldengirl88

04-15-2013, 09:40 AM

Vicki:
Just checking in with you and Scoop. Sorry to hear he cannot get rid of the belly troubles. It seems you and Scoop cannot catch a break from all of this stuff. I hope you get to the source of his tummy problems as that has to be wearing on him, and you. God Bless you both.
Patti

scoora

04-15-2013, 10:20 PM

Thank you so much everyone. It means a lot that there are so many wonderful people who care about how my Scoop is doing. Even if I don't post on your threads I want all of you to know that I wish all the best for you and your little ones and I hope all is going well.

I commented on Patti's thread about her neighbor's vet being so kind to help her out with the cost of surgery. I then mentioned that today I dropped off a urine sample at the vet's to check Scoop's protein in the urine. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I was told it cost $110.00! Gosh darn it. What makes a urine test so expensive? I am not working right now but I have told my husband that eventually when I go back to work, I will work till I'm 70 to pay for Scoop's vet bills. Looks like I might have to work till I'm 80. That's OK. My Scoop is worth it!

Skye

04-16-2013, 01:31 AM

you know what.....on that upc test....i wonder if it wouldnt be less expensive to have a full urine screening done...sometimes when they do more than one test and they bundle test...it actually cost less. weird i know.
YOU GO GIRL.........i am the same way, i told the doctors i would sell one of my kidneys if i needed to help take care of my girl. I highly recommend Care Credit. they let you make payments, lots of vets accept care credit, and interest free specials all the time. i will likely have a care credit statement for a long long long time....doesnt bother me at all. that is one bill i gladly and am grateful to have (care credit since it helps me help her so much) love them.

scoora

04-16-2013, 03:06 PM

Skye, I didn't think of that, sell one of my kidneys...hmmm

It would be nice if the vets would know to suggest and do stuff like bundling.

scoora

04-16-2013, 03:16 PM

I did not order Scoop's Vetoryl in time so to stretch it I skipped his dose on Sat. and again yesterday (Mon.) Yesterday he had a good day. He didn't sleep as much and it just gave me a good feeling to see him like he that. Today he had Vetoryl. From 6:30 this morning till now 2:10 he was up maybe 30-45 min. to go out and have some lunch. When we eat lunch he stands in the kitchen and I give him chicken or ground turkey, couple veggies(he used to eat lots of carrots but doesn't want them much lately) but today he just laid on the dining room floor and I had to feed him there. What a difference from yesterday to today. I don't know if it's coincidence with no Vetoryl yesterday and he is just so tired he is making up for lack of sleep. What a difference between the two days.

Mel-Tia

04-16-2013, 04:22 PM

Just popping into say hello, hope all is ok with you. Mail me when you can xxx

scoora

04-18-2013, 10:30 AM

Scoop's urine protein test came back. It was 5. His last test was 4.7. He has been off his Benazapril for a few weeks. The vet wanted to make sure the med wasn't causing his diarrhea. He is now back on the med. The vet also told me she is going to trust the alternative medicine vet with giving Scoop some meds. He has been on RX Clay for the diarrhea. Scoop sees her today and I think she might start him on enzymes. The alt. vet wanted him to start them a couple weeks ago but his vet didn't want him to. That was when he started on FortiFlora from the reg vet. See what happens at visit today. I read you have to be careful with enzymes. They have to be mixed really well.

I called VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital on Tuesday and told the person who answered the phone about the article I read that was from 2 years ago. The one about surgery on pituitary tumors and the discovery of a substance that might shrink the tumors. The person connected me to Dr. Bruyette's assistant and I left a voice message. I have not heard back. Later on Tuesday is when I talked to Scoop's vet. Back at the end of the summer she went to a conference in Atlantic City on Cushing's. She told me bout a doctor who spoke at the conference. Tuesday I asked her if it was Dr. Bruyette. She said, yes. I mentioned the article I read. She told me he talked about the research at the conference. He said they are years away. They are having trouble getting funding. The vet said who do you think will get funding? Research for human diseases like cancer or animals with pituitary tumors? Just makes me sick when I think about all the drug companies and other companies who have so much money.

scoora

04-18-2013, 10:52 AM

I wanted to say that my oldest daughter's oldest of 4 dogs crossed the rainbow bridge on Tuesday afternoon. She was a 9 1/2 YO Chihuahua. I'm not sure if I'm spelling it correctly but her name is Kylie. She almost lost her life 7 years ago to Addison's disease. Luckily one vet knew what he was doing and was able to help her. She lived with getting her shots every month for 7 years. The vet doesn't think it was the Addison's but that she had an infection that took her.
RIP sweet little girl. Your family loves you and will miss you very much.

Harley PoMMom

04-18-2013, 12:10 PM

I am so sorry to hear of the passing of your daughter's furbaby, Kylie. My condolences to you, your daughter and her family.

A while back a member brought to our attention that the University of Pennsylvania was looking into pituitary surgery for dogs with PDH. I don't know if they are performing this type of surgery as of yer but it might be something to investigate into further.

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

goldengirl88

04-18-2013, 12:52 PM

Vicki:
Sorry to hear of your daughters fur baby passing. That is a shame it is young for a Chiuahuah. I talked to the Dr. you mentioned in your post in California several months ago. We emailed back and forth also. At theat time he was doing the operation and removing the pituitary tumor. He wanted an MRI on Tipper done before he said he could help me. I did not want to do the MRI. I am curious I never heard of this substance before, could you tell me about it?I know you are leaving no stone unturned when it comes to your precious Scoop. Blessings
Patti

scoora

04-18-2013, 01:37 PM

Patti, I don't really know anything about it. Just what I read that they had discovered something in a lab environment and were hoping to do testing on live animals. That was 2 years ago. I was hoping to hear from the assistant and possibly learn more about what is being done but haven't heard from her yet. If I hear anything at all I will let you know. I was kind of hopeful reading about that but Scoop's vet kind of burst my bubble, again. So you talked to Dr. Bruette? Did he charge you a consultation fee? I tried emailing him but my computer wouldn't let it go through so that's why I called.

Lori, I know Dr. Bruyette's wife, Dr. Owen has performed surgery on pituitary tumors and I read she was supposed to be teaching some doctors on the east coast the procedure. I took Scoop for a consult at U. of Penn. for radiation. You would think the doctor would have mentioned the surgery if they were doing it there esp. since she wouldn't do the radiation.

This whole Cushing's thing is so frustrating.

scoora

04-18-2013, 01:45 PM

Thank you for the condolences for my daughter's sweet girl. My daughter is heartbroken.

My son lost his Dalmation, Mugzy, a little less than 2 years ago, now my daughter's Kylie and my Scoop not being well, it's so hard.

Bo's Mom

04-18-2013, 07:13 PM

So sorry to hear about your daughter's precious baby girl. It is so hard losing them and we all understand the pain she is feeling. Please accept our deepest condolences and let her know we care.

molly muffin

04-18-2013, 07:17 PM

Oh I am so sorry to hear about little Kylie. That is young and way to early to have say goodbye to them.

Hopefully you'll hear back from Dr. Bruyette soon.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

scoora

04-18-2013, 09:00 PM

Belinda and Sharlene-Thank you. I will let my daughter know how much everyone cares.

scoora

04-18-2013, 09:24 PM

Scoop saw the alt med vet today. She started him on enzymes. In a few days he will also be starting melatonin.

doxiesrock912

04-18-2013, 11:11 PM

Rest peaceeefully Kylie. My condolencces.

scoora

04-18-2013, 11:32 PM

Thank you Valerie.

scoora

04-18-2013, 11:42 PM

Can anyone give me info on Melatonin? Scoop's supposed to start on it. I googled it and it mentioned it can interact with other medications including:diabetes medications. It said Melatonin may affect insulin levels.
Not sure if I want to start it.
Any help? Thank you.

frijole

04-18-2013, 11:49 PM

I used it with both my dogs but they weren't diabetic. I googled it and read a couple articles just now and they said it could cause blood sugar to increase. I would consult my vet re this. I noticed that humans were starting at levels of 1 mg (a low level to be safe) and I believe most pills come in 3 mgs. My dogs took the 3 mgs and they weighed 15-18 lbs. Kim

scoora

04-19-2013, 12:19 AM

Thanks Kim, I will check with both vets before I start it. Scoop's pills say 0.5mg on the bottle. So that's a lower dose. Today Scoop weighed 19lbs. I sure don't want to use anything that will cause his blood sugar to rise. We are having enough trouble getting it lower.

Kim, what was the reason for your dogs using it? Did it help them?
Thanks

Skye

04-19-2013, 01:28 AM

i would ask the doctor to explain how this will help and not hurt situation for scoop. the alt. doctor that is. wondering if they could explain the reasoning there. weird to help one area and worsen another so there must be some explanation. glad you researched this a bit before starting. You rock!
I am so very very sorry for your daughters loss..........so very sorry. I know there are no words to ease this time of sorrow, I do hope there is strength found in knowing many are thinking of her right now (and the family)

Squirt's Mom

04-19-2013, 08:10 AM

Hi Vicki,

First, I am so sorry to hear about your daughter's loss. Please let her know there is much sympathy and empathy from us to her.

Now, the melatonin. Here is what Drug Digest has to say -

Individuals who use insulin, inject other antidiabetes drugs, or take oral medications to control diabetes should avoid using melatonin because it can block the use of insulin, possibly changing blood sugar levels unpredictably. Hypoglycemia (blood sugar that is too low) or hyperglycemia (blood sugar that is too high) may result. Melatonin supplements should be avoided by individuals who inject insulin or other drugs (such as Byetta, Symlin, or Victoza), or take oral drugs for diabetes, such as:

acarbose
Actos
Avandia
glimepiride
glipizide
glyburide
Glyset
Januvia
metformin
Onglyza
Prandin

http://www.drugdigest.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/fY5RcoIwGITP4gGcP9Ya8THSgihJK1KBvDAZBzQGEkrBtJxePI DdfduZ3f2Aw2gtbvIsOmm0qCAFjvM58hHy3eALecEcBc6GOiGJ xnQGyaOBc_REBAHbmLqADPjy6Y7zAkdt2vrxd5OFhRhS9Jofrq ih4Y-mw-rjc3g_dwfZJmv7rSo_VdtC1FiVuOkzVfWx5gVfRzGLVy5jb9TS PRtOs-2Oli7JKXZUt7_IKPSmrTn-tipZmL-AlFEvPDuZjHTZv3SN0tamC3IH1Uz5rA!!/dl2/d1/L0lJS2FZQSEhL3dMRUJGcUFNc2pNQy9ZSTV5bHchIS83XzMwRz AwR0NJVTBGSTMwSThITThMQVIzMDgyL2Zvcldobw!!/

That link will take you to the first page of info on melatonin. Look to your right and you will see a list of options, including "What side effects should I watch for?" and "What interactions should I watch for?"

I really think I would contact the vet this morning and discuss this in depth with her before letting him take it just to be sure. That dose is very low, the lowest I have seen. I have seen 1mg and have that on hand but that is lowest I have found. Squirt is on a rather massive dose - 3 1/2 capsules a day that are 3mg each - and I have had human nurses go ballistic when they hear how much she takes. The only effect I have noticed in her is that she got sleepy more when she first started taking it. But she doesn't have diabetes. ;) So talk with vet and let her know your concerns. There may be an alternative she can offer.

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

scoora

04-19-2013, 02:23 PM

Skye and Leslie, Thank you so much for your condolences. I will be sure to tell her next time I talk to her.

Leslie, Thanks for all the info on Melatonin. After I saw about the blood sugar I freaked. I'm not supposed to start it till Sunday. This is from the alt. vet. Maybe she'll say the dose is small but it still scares me. We have a hard enough time with his BG level.

Wow Squirt does take a large dose. The Melatonin is for hormones, right? Would it help with anything else?
Thanks

goldengirl88

04-20-2013, 09:42 AM

Vicki:
I am just popping in to check on Scoop today. I hope you are both having a peaceful weekend. God Bless You Both.
Patti

Skye

04-21-2013, 01:26 AM

hows the day today?!

Mel-Tia

04-21-2013, 04:57 AM

Thinking of you and Scoopie, hope your ok. Mail me soon

Big hug, kisses to the boys

Mel
Xxxxx

goldengirl88

04-21-2013, 09:23 AM

Vicki:
Hope you and Scoop are doing well, and getting some much needed rest from everything that is going on. Hugs and kisses to sweet Scoop. Blessings
Patti

Doccy

04-22-2013, 01:25 PM

Vicki,
So sorry to hear about Kylie. Please know that all of you are in my prayers.

Hugs from me and big sloppy kisses from Doc

Simba's Mom

04-22-2013, 07:59 PM

Just checking in on you and Scoop!

scoora

04-23-2013, 01:01 AM

Thanks Patti, Skye, Mel, Jessica, Letti
Thanks for your prayers and condolences for Kylie.
Things have not been too good with Scoop. Picky eating is getting worse. Trembles an aweful lot. Wonders and circles. Vomited Fri., Sat. and Sun. after his supper.

Skye

04-23-2013, 03:12 AM

that circling and such is a symptom of something....ugh....what was it......i try and find what that is......
have they tried cerenia? i think they can only take that for 5 days.
i wonder if dramamine would help settle his stomach? trying to think what works for humans but is safe for our babies that would help his stomach but wouldnt stress him to give. Maybe the picking eating is from his tummy being in a funk. and if he isnt eating well that could cause the trembles...right???
poor sweet baby.......have you tried several several tiny meals through out the day? or maybe putting foods in a kong toy and maybe he would take interest? just brainstorming here.
love and hugs to you both.
OH would he eat if he felt another was going to eat it??? he may not want it but he wont let another one have it type thing.........know what i mean?

doxiesrock912

04-23-2013, 04:52 AM

I found this in regard to circling and Cushings as a possible answer. Written by Dr. Peterson.

http://http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/04/q-pacing-and-circling-in-cushings-dog.html (http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/04/q-pacing-and-circling-in-cushings-dog.html)

Trish

04-23-2013, 08:33 AM

Hi Vicki
Popping in for a hug for you and a back rub for Scoop! Hope your day has gone ok for you both and his poor tummy is settling. Sorry I do not have much advice on all this, but lots of happy thoughts are coming your way xx

goldengirl88

04-23-2013, 08:36 AM

Vicki:
Going to be out today hope Scoop is well. Blessings
Patti

Squirt's Mom

04-23-2013, 10:44 AM

Many hugs for you, sweet lady, and gentle belly rubs for our precious Scoop.

scoora

04-23-2013, 10:59 AM

Thanks everyone for checking in on Scoop and all the suggestions. They are so much appreciated. I will write more later. I am just so mentally exhausted right now.
Hugs to you and your babies.

Squirt's Mom

04-23-2013, 11:07 AM

Vicki, are you taking care of yourself? Please do take a moment now and then just for you, 'k?

Harley PoMMom

04-23-2013, 12:28 PM

Hi Vicki,

Leslie is right, you need to take of yourself too, sending you some huge and loving hugs, Lori

addy

04-23-2013, 02:09 PM

Being overwhelmed is so hard, sweetie, I understand and am sending you hugs. Sometimes we need to break it down into focusing on the next day, or even the next hour and not think about it all.

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))

goldengirl88

04-24-2013, 10:46 AM

God Bless you and Scoop. I know what mental exhaustion you are speaking of. I hope you are able to take a good rest with Scoop.
Patti

scoora

04-24-2013, 11:35 AM

Thanks everyone for your concerns. It's so hard for me not to think about it 24/7. It's right there in front of me and it doesn't leave my mind. Scoop gave me a hard time last evening with eating. I had to call the vet and ask about his insulin because he didn't eat much and what he did eat isn't anything good for him. He did eat some dog food this morning.

I mentioned to the vet last week that the couple times I did not give him his Vetoryl that he wasn't sleeping so much those days. So yesterday she told me to cut his dose from 40mg to 30mg.

Mel-Tia

04-25-2013, 05:34 AM

Thinking of you both, hope you had a better day yesterday

Big hug, kisses for the boys

Mel
Xxxx

goldengirl88

04-25-2013, 09:00 AM

Vicki:
I know what you mean about not being abloe to get this off your mind. Some people are able to shut it off and not think about it, I am not one of those unfortunately. I can probably say since I first knew Tipper had Cushings it has been on my mind constantly. My neighbor who means well, always tells me to keep busy and not hink of it. i do keep extremely busy and that does not stop the thoughts from invading my brain. All you can do is the best you can. Tipper and I still pray for Scoop to have a miracle. God Bless you both.
Patti

addy

04-25-2013, 09:33 AM

popping in to give hugs. only cush pups' moms and dads understand the constant worry, we live and breathe it.

molly muffin

04-25-2013, 07:31 PM

Hi Vicki, sending you hugs and Scoop some belly rubs. Thinking of you both.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Mel-Tia

04-29-2013, 03:50 PM

Just wondering how you both are?

Hope everything is ok

Mel
Xxxxx

goldengirl88

04-30-2013, 10:02 AM

Vicky:
Hope you and Scoop are spending a lot of quality time together, and just loving each other. God Bless You Both
Patti

scoora

04-30-2013, 10:04 AM

I'm such a mess right now. Scoop is eating some right now but he has gotten so, so picky with what he'll eat.
Please say a prayer for my Scoop. Any miracles out there?
I keep thinking about our visit to U of Penn. The treatments would have been over a few weeks ago and maybe it would have helped Scoop. Now it looks like he won't be here much longer. It just gets me she wouldn't do the treatments because of fear of losing him but isn't that what's going to happen now anyway? I guess one day he won't want to eat anything at all any more. It's so hard.

Harley PoMMom

04-30-2013, 01:05 PM

Oh Vicki, I am so sorry to hear that Scoop's appetite is not picking up and will be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs, Lori

goldengirl88

04-30-2013, 03:11 PM

Vicki:
I truly wish I had the magic wand to give Scoop a miracle. I understand what you are saying about the treatments, and him not being here much longer. Were you going to take him to Penn State? I could not hold up as good as you have done, I give you all the credit in the world. This is just too much to bear for you, and I hope God shows Scoop mercy and helps him. Don't be afraid to ask God to help, I still am waiting to see some miracles. Blessings
Patti

scoora

05-02-2013, 02:00 PM

Lori, Patti-Thank you

Patti, It was University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia

Fellasmom

05-02-2013, 11:33 PM

Hi Vicki
Just wanted to say thank you for all your kindness.I read about your Scoop before Fella's surgery but then got sidetracked when he passed.Just wanted to say that I have you and your beloved Scoop in my thoughts and prayers.Awful when your baby is sick and you are consumed with worry and grief.You are so strong and a wonderful mom to Scoop.Hugs to you both.
Patty

Skye

05-03-2013, 02:27 AM

thinking of you and scoop. the bond you two share is amazing, you strengthen each other. As you sit and hold him, love him, talk to him, hope your heart hears what he shares back. He loves you so and knows you are doing everything you possibly can to help him. You are incredible. Scoop is incredible and the bond you two share is beautiful. Hoping good news will be coming your way soon.

Mel-Tia

05-03-2013, 06:40 AM

Hey Vicki. Thinking of you Scoop and Raleigh. Hope you are all ok. Let us know soon

Mel
Xxxxx

Squirt's Mom

05-03-2013, 10:38 AM

Ya'll are on my mind and in my heart always.

goldengirl88

05-03-2013, 05:46 PM

Hope you and Scoop are together enjoying the nice weather we are having. My thoughts and prayers are with you both. Blessings
Patti

Simba's Mom

05-03-2013, 06:47 PM

Praying for you and Scoop!

SoggyDoggy

05-03-2013, 10:46 PM

Hey Vicki,

Just checking in on you and Scoop. Hope is is having some brighter days and you are getting some big snuggles at least.

My sister once said to me, "When you are feeling sick, all you want is Yummy food" and she was so right. I see it in Fraser a lot too now, I have to bribe him to eat - he always gets a little bit of something special with his food now. It seems to work most times for him. Maybe you could tempt Scoop in a similar way? Just to get his to eat a little bit. I know how awful it feels when they don't want to eat their food, makes everything else seem that bit worse.

Big hugs honey.

doxiesrock912

05-03-2013, 11:06 PM

Vicki,

I hope that everything is going well with Scoop. Crossing my fingers!

scoora

05-05-2013, 09:47 AM

Thank you everyone for all your kind words. Scoop's eating has gotten even worse the last day or two. This morning I couldn't hardly get him to even eat lunch meat which he has been eating till now. It is so hard. The vet put him on an antibiotic for his diarrhea. The diarrhea is so bad.

Squirt's Mom

05-05-2013, 09:58 AM

Aw, Vicki, I am so sorry you and Scoop are struggling so these days. I know how hard it is to watch them decline, feeling so helpless to do anything for them. Does our sweet boy seem to find any joy in his days? Does anything seem to make him happy lately? I know you are doing all you can for him...as does Scoop. He sees how much you love him and how hard you are working on his behalf. We are with you always, sweetie.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

goldengirl88

05-05-2013, 02:56 PM

Vicky:
It is truly heartbreaking to read about your Scoop. I am still asking God for a miracle to heal him. He knows how much you love him, and how much you have taken care of his every need. He knows his mommy is helping him and wanting him to get better. I cry every time I post to you as I know this will indeed be me and Tipper one day. I hope you are able to spend as much time with him as you can. Take some video if possible of him playing, or some pictures with you both. I try to take video of Tipper almost daily, and I do it a lot when she is barking as I always want to be able to hear her voice forever and ever. God Bless you Vicki, I am right there with you in spirit praying for you and Scoop. I would try to give him anything he will eat to keep his strength up. You can get AD food off the Vet and suck it into a bigger syringe and feed it to him. It comes in a small can, and I have used it on my cat when he was sick. It works and is very high calorie and good nutrition for them. I will keep praying for you both, hugs and kisses to Scoop from Tipper.
Patti

frijole

05-05-2013, 03:08 PM

I join the others in sending you strength and love. You are an awesome mom to Scoop. Kim

molly muffin

05-05-2013, 06:31 PM

Thinking of you Vicki and Scoop

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Doccy

05-06-2013, 09:31 PM

I'm praying for you and Scoop. You are doing everything you can and you are the best mama to him a boy could have! Just be with him.

doxiesrock912

05-06-2013, 10:51 PM

Vicki,
there seems to be a lot of diarrhea going around. Poor Scoop. If he'll tolerate it, a warm bath always helps Daisy feel a bit better.

LabDad

05-06-2013, 10:56 PM

Prayers are always coming from Moo & myself, Vicki, you are a great dog mom! :)

Trish

05-07-2013, 07:00 AM

HI Vicki
Checking in with you and Scoop to hopefully see some improvement and you managed to tempt her to eat with something tasty. Have you tried some baby food (without onion)? A lot of dogs seem to like that when they are feeling poorly. Lots of hugs for you both xx

goldengirl88

05-07-2013, 10:08 AM

Vicki:
You and Scoop are always in my heart. I hope today finds Scoop feeling a little better,and that he is hungry for some food. God Bless You Both as I think of you all day long and pray for Scoop.
Blessings
Patti

Mel-Tia

05-07-2013, 03:01 PM

Just wanted you to know am thinking of you. Hoping scoop is feeling better

Hope to speak to you soon

Big hug, kisses to the boys

Mel
Xxxx

goldengirl88

05-08-2013, 02:21 PM

Vicki:
Thinking of you both, and praying for you both.
Patti

goldengirl88

05-10-2013, 09:38 AM

Vicki:
I have hopes that Scoop is better and that you are spending quality time together. I am thinking of you and Scoop every day. God Bless You Both,and may God give Scoop a miracle.
Patti

Skye

05-11-2013, 04:22 AM

checking in..........thinking of you and sweet scoop. Your a beautiful loving mom, scoop is blessed to have you....have a happy mothers day.

Skye

05-11-2013, 04:25 AM

is the antibotic they gave him...is it metronzide or something like that? that is such helpful medication.
by chance......is there anything out there that can stimulate the desire to eat?

goldengirl88

05-11-2013, 09:58 AM

Vicki:
Hope you have a wonderful Mothers Day with your baby Scoop. I am still praying for a miracle for him. God Bless You Both.
Patti

milosmom

05-12-2013, 05:56 AM

morning vicki,just popping in to see how everything is going for scoop and you... hoping that you two are sharing nice,quiet cuddle time...xoxox patty(milo)meka

goldengirl88

05-12-2013, 02:55 PM

Vicki:
I will be thinking of you and Scoop all day while I am at Tipper's hospital appointment. I pray that Scoop is getting better. God Bless You Both.
Patti

Bo's Mom

05-12-2013, 03:50 PM

Vicki,
Thinking about you and Scoop.

scoora

05-13-2013, 08:57 AM

Thanks everyone. Sorry I haven't been on lately. It's tough right now. It's hard to come here and post. Scoop is not eating well. Sometimes he'll refuse everything and sometimes he'll eat a little dog food. There are times all he'll eat is lunch meat or liverwurst. Yesterday he gobbled up a rotisserie chicken leg. Food he should not be eating because of his pancreas. He is losing weight. It is so frustrating. I just think I have to make him eat.

The vet did a B12, folate, pancreas blood test. B12 was high but she said it wasn't significant, folate was normal, pancreas was high. She said normal for the pancreas is under 400 and Scoop's is greater than 1000. He has been on a compounded formula of Tylan for over a week and will be staying on that. Today I will be picking up Baytril and Tramadol.

Skye

05-15-2013, 02:30 AM

hmmmm wonder what it was about that chicken that got him to gobble it up....and what could mimic that taste, smell, texture, but with less fat......there has got to be something.......with all the special ways foods are made for all sorts of diets, to all taste like something else.........

Harley PoMMom

05-15-2013, 12:56 PM

Can Scoop have carbs? If so, I would try pasta, potatoes, oats, and some cereals (like cheerios). Hope Scoop's appetite picks up soon.

goldengirl88

05-18-2013, 10:04 AM

Vicki:
I realize the gravity of your situation, and just want to support you. I think of you and Scoop all through out the day. May he get a miracle from God. I am so worried about both of you, and what this has to be doing to your state of mind Vicki. God Bless You Both I am praying for you.
Patti

Simba's Mom

05-19-2013, 02:17 AM

Sending hugs and praying for you and Scoop, hope he starts eating better soon and gets some weight back on him...

doxiesrock912

05-19-2013, 02:29 AM

Vicki, this is going to sound nuts but when Daisy recently refused food I literally dizzled the gravy from Gracie's wet cat food (just five drops or so) and she gobbled it all up. I can't think of the name of the food, it costs $1.19 a can and has all natural ingredients and each can has its own cover.

Might be worth a try.

Hope Scoop feels better!

Trish

05-19-2013, 02:59 AM

Hmmm I saw cat soup just recently, I wonder if a wee drizzle of that would be tasty for Scoop. Pancreatitis is such an awful thing to deal with. Hope Scoop is feeling better today xx

milosmom

05-19-2013, 01:06 PM

thinking of you 2...... <3 patty (milo)meka xoxox

goldengirl88

05-20-2013, 09:22 AM

Vicki:
Hope you and Scoop are spending precious time together.God Bless you both and know I am thinking and praying for you.
Patti

scoora

05-20-2013, 11:49 AM

Thanks everyone. So hard coming on here lately. It's hard dealing with Scoop's eating issues. It just makes me so sad.

Valerie, funny you mentioned about the cat food. When I had Scoop to the vet the other week, the tech gave him some Pounce cat treats. He loves those things, at least right now he does.

Trish, you mentioned pancreatitis. The vet never called it that but I wondered if that's what he has. Would you say that's it's pancreatitis? She said he should be on a low fat diet. I said, that will never happen with how he's eating.

She stopped all his meds except his insulin since Thursday to see if that would help his eating and he is taking an appetite stimulant. It helped just a slight bit. He eats a small amount of dog food but I have to try to see which one he wants. I usually have several different ones open at once. Good thing Raleigh will eat the ones Scoop doesn't. He'll eat a bit of it then that's it. He won't take any more. Sometimes he will eat something after that but not dog food. It's throwing his BG's out of wack with his diabetes. I give him something to eat when he will eat.

Scoop's diarrhea has not improved. He was on Tylan for about a week and a half and had just started Baytril and Tramadol a coupe days before she said to stop all meds.This is so upsetting and frustrating.

Does anyone know how long he can be off his Vetoryl without causing any problems?

Thanks for checking up on my Scoop.

Jenny & Judi in MN

05-20-2013, 04:18 PM

if he isn't having cushings symptoms I wouldn't sweat the vetoryl. All vetoryl does is treat the symptoms. I know it leaves their bodies faster than Lysodren.

I'm so sorry he is having these continuous problems. hugs, Judi

Skye

05-21-2013, 03:01 AM

there is this stuff that is called biosponge i think....for angry pooh. and it is amazing. and metronzide tablets are awesome as well.
how are his kidneys? i had a client whos baby became very picky and it was a kidney issue.
if its pancreas....i would have surly think the doctor would have said something. are pork chops low fat? you know the other white meat.....wonder if that would be good? i still think nutritionist would be good. And just one thing about the cat treats and foods.......they can wreck horrible havotic on dogs systems. i cant figure why the vet tech would be doing that. Offering gravy from cat food would maybe okay but i would sure be careful with any actual treat or food.
how are YOU doing...you are soooooooooo strong. so very strong. your a beautiful momma. think of you soooooooooooo often and i hope you know you are carried in hearts of all here. you rock.

doxiesrock912

05-21-2013, 03:14 AM

Skye,
thank you for the tip on the Bio Sponge! I emailed Daisy's IMS to see what she thinks of it. Just in case I can't get her to take the Tylan powder.

Skye

05-21-2013, 03:35 AM

i think that is what it is called. Its in a syringe, and the part that pushes in has knotches in it, so its a paste type substance.

scoora

05-21-2013, 11:47 AM

Skye, Thank you for your kind words. I'll have to check out bio sponge.
Weird, yesterday and today so far Scoop's poop has been a slight bit better, just a slight bit. He is not on any meds right now except insulin and appetite stimulant. His eating this morning was terrible.

Do you know what the cat treats can do to a dog's system? The vet did say he shouldn't have many of them but not why.

lisamak

05-21-2013, 12:12 PM

I'm sorry to read about Scoop's food issues of late (as a mom to 3 pugs it hits home as we all know how pugs love their food). Here's some things to try:

Weruva Paw-Lickin Chicken (suitable for a dog w/pancreatitis) - this is basically just shredded chicken in gravy and I use it for tempt-to-eat situations

Honest Kitchen Ice Pups (also suitable for a dog w/pancreatitis) - this is a broth that you can serve warm (its a powder and you add water to it) or you can freeze and serve as ice cubes, dump ice cubes in water bowl etc. I only use it as a warm broth (its chicken + turkey + asparagus and a few other herbs)...basically Jewish chicken soup for dogs/cats. It is substantial enough to cut through the acidity in an empty belly and "prime the pump" so to speak so the dog/cat will want to eat again

Other canned foods to try (that are bland, pancreatitis-suitable and gravy-licious): Lotus chicken and asparagus, Evangers Whole Chicken Thigh (just serve up the meat and water down the broth a bit, Evanger's Hunk of Beef (same just serve up the meat and water down the broth a bit).

I hope you're able to get Scoop to eat and that he (and you) are feeling better soon.

Also so a ? you had about cat food/treats...they are always higher in fat than dog stuff so not suitable for a dog with pancreatitis...in an emergency to get the dog to take a pill or what-not no big deal, but you don't want him to get hooked on canned cat food or the like.

~~Lisa and Vince