My Pug Scoop (Precious Scoop has passed... )

[scoora]

I heard back from the vet. I had emailed her the other day. I mentioned lately Scoop's urine has been foamy when he pees. She will do a urine test. She said it could be too much protein in his urine. Anyone have any experience with that?

[molly muffin]

I think that Tina's Jasper is going through kidney issues right now that has to do with protein in the urine and can be a sign of kidney disease.
Her thread is here:
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93850#post93850

I wish I knew what would help Scoop the most. I think the twice daily dosing is a good option via compounding pharmacy.
All you can do is try to get him to play with you with the toys and see if that helps him feel better about his interaction abilities with the family. Dogs are often quite similiar to people in that they can get depressed and have to relearn how to deal with things without sight. I think though that they can be much quicker to adapt too though. They have a wonderful sense of smell that you could maybe work with too.

Hang in there.
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Vicki, I apologize for forgetting that you had that imaging done earlier and therefore you already know that Scoop's tumor is a big one. I am so sorry for making you repeat all that information again! But thanks so much for reminding me.

My heart goes out to you, because I realize you are in a very tough position. Some of the changes you are seeing in Scoop's behavior may well be the result of the tumor and not the medication. But it's hard to know without altering Scoop's trilostane dose, and by doing that, I believe you'd also have to alter his insulin requirement, too. He is a very complicated little boy with a lot of interdependent issues. :o

I may be wrong, but out of all the things that are currently going on (including now the possibility of kidney issues also), I am guessing his diabetes still probably remains the most critical issue day-to-day. If he has sudden extremes in his blood sugars, that problem will "trump" everything else. And controlling his Cushing's seems to be an important part of controlling his diabetes. So even though the trilostane treatment may end up hastening the tumor growth in the long run, the trilostane may be essential for keeping his other physical issues as stable as possible in the short run. It is truly a dilemma. I am so sorry that you are facing this struggle. I know how hard it is to watch your baby slipping away from the happy, healthy life he once led.

Sending many hugs your way,
Marianne

[addy]

Then down further on the report he says:The appearance of the pituitary gland is most compatible with a pituitary macroadenoma. The mass is not causing any significant mass effect or compression of adjacent tissues at this time, but if it continues to grow then it may affect the optic nerve, hypothalamus, or thalamus. So this is why I contantly worry about the tumor.

Well, I guess I would be worried too if I read that on my pup's report.

I am sorry, Vicki that you and Scoop are in such a hard place. Sometimes we can't get our dogs back. I wished that for my Zoe but I'm a realist and I know now that will never happen. So then, if we cant get them back, how do we judge their quality of life now with their handicaps and health issues? Is it better Scoop sleeps more but is not plaqued with the issues of uncontrolled Calcinosis Cutis? We dont know how long it would take for it to get out of control again. That seems to always be the problem. We deal with some many "what if":(:( So many unknowns.

I wonder if you had a consultaton with the IMS if that would help?



((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))

[Boriss McCall]

Vicki,
I am so sorry Scoop is having problems. We just recently switched Boriss to the twice a day dosing. It seems to really help him so far. He seems to have less weird behavior. I really wish I had never learned about macros. It is always in the back of my mind & a fear I am sure we all live with. I don't want to anticipate it ever.. but, my mind goes there sometimes & I get really scared.

We are all here for you & Scoop. You can talk to us when you are sad & have fears about the what ifs.

Hugs..
Amy

[scoora]

Sharlene, Marianne, Addy, Amy-thanks
It's getting late. I'll be back to talk maybe tomorrow night.

But Amy I wanted to ask you, what kind of less weird behavior does Boris seem to have since switchig to twice daily dosing? What are his doses? Thanks

[Boriss McCall]

The main weirdness was he would not hangout with us very much. Which normally he stays right beside me no matter what. He just seems more content now.

[Boriss McCall]

Oh & to answer your question about dosage. Boriss weighs about 28lbs & takes a 30mg pill in the morning & a 10mg pill at night.

[scoora]

Amy-Thanks. So Boriss' dose isn't evenly split. Did the vet suggest that? Not too long ago Scoop's vet thought he was on 30-10 split. After his last ACTH she thought his numbers were a little too low and said maybe we would drop the 10mg in the evening. I said he's not on 10mg at night. Maybe I should see if she would want to try that. Then when I mentioned the Dr. Peterson report she said something about them not making a 20mg

[scoora]

Hi everyone, Sometimes it is hard for me to come on here and write about my Scoop. It makes me sadder than I already am. Scoop had the fructosamine test done and the vet didn't change his insulin. He had the urine test and it showed protein in the urine. The vet said to repeat the urine test again in 2 weeks and if still shows protein then repeat it again in another 2 weeks. Geez. After that I don't know what happens. The vet switched Scoop from Hills W/D to Hills G/D to see if he would eat that better than the W/D. I love Scoop so much. I don't know why he has to have so many dang problems.

[scoora]

Here are the results of Scoop's JR wellness blood test that was done a few weeks ago and I just haven't taken the time to post before this.

Test, Result, Range

cholesterol, 562, 112-328 mg/dl
glucose, 273, 60-125 mg/dl
TCO2(bicarbonate), 27, 17-24 mEq/L
chloride, 99, 105-115 mEq/L
sodium, 138, 141-156 mEq/L
B/C ratio, 30, no range given says High
NA/K ratio, 26, 27-40
HGB, 18.2, 12-18 g/dl
reticulocyte, 120, 10-110 K/uL
alk. phosphatase, 2029, 10-150 U/L
alt (sgpt), 447, 5-107 U/L
ggt, 68, 0-14 U/L
neutrophil seg, 86.5, 60-77%
lymphocytes, 5.1, 12-30%
eosinophil, 0.4, 2-10%
auto platelet, 639, 164-510 K/uL
absolute neutrophil seg, 11678, 3000-11500 /uL
absolute lymphocyte, 689, 1000-4800 /uL
absolute eosinophil, 54, 100-1250 /uL

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Sorry you are so sad about your baby having all these troubles. I know how you feel, as I have had Tipper the whole time I have been sick with Lupus, and cannot think of living without her beside me. I sometimes succomb to desperate measures to keep her on track.I never spend any money on myself, as I know she could have an emergency and I may need it.Any spare money goes towards her supplements or health care. I have ignored my own health to look after hers. It requires a lot of my time, as this is a full time job being vigilant with a Cushings dog. I am not complaining though, as I will do anything to keep her with me. She has been so loyal to me when I am sick, and she really needs me now. We all live with this Macro tumor scare in the depths of our minds. Tipper has exhibited symptoms in the past that have scared me to death, and I just try to keep it out of my mind. You never really know what tomorrow will bring with this disease so I spend my day enjoying my Tipper to the fullest. I have never had a dog I was so attached to, and I pray to God many times a day to give her a long life, as I cannot do without her. I hope your baby gets past these problems soon, as I know the despair you are feeling. God bless you both.

[Trish]

Hi Vicki

Gosh, it seems one thing after another for Scoop. So hard to process sometimes - keep an eye on Tina's thread about Jasper, they are sorting out his kidney problems at the moment and their are links there re dietary advice, it might help you and Scoop. Although you do have another couple of tests to go first, so maybe it is not too bad like my boy Flynn who has protein too. He is having more tests this week too.

Hugs for you xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[scoora]

Tipper's mom-Thanks for all your kind words. You have been doing a fantastic job with Tipper. She is so lucky to have you to take care of her. It is so hard to not think about all their problems constantly because we love them so much and want to help them all we can. Big hugs to you and Tipper.

[scoora]

Trish-Thanks for the heads up. It's hard to keep up with everyone on here. I will check out Jasper's thread.
Big hugs right back to you and Flynn.

[molly muffin]

Hey Vicki, just checking in on you and Scoop. How's he doing over all? Trish is right, keep an eye on Jasper and Tina's thread as they sort out the dietary and maybe some of that will give you some ideas for Scoop too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Hi Sharlene-Thanks for asking about Scoop. He's about the same. Right now he is trembling so much and drooling. Last night he had one of his "horny" episodes again. For now he is eating his new food. We'll see how long that lasts.

[scoora]

About 15-20 minutes ago I said to Scoop it was lunch time, no reaction, said it louder a couple of times. No reaction. Asked him if he wanted to go eat his chicken. He just looked at me. Helped him into the kitchen. He ate but with not much enthusium. He usually gets excited about chicken. After he was done he went looking for his water. He had a hard time keeping his balance. Now he's laying here next to me again, getting an ear and belly rub and he is trembling again. Don't like what I see.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

I'm so sorry Bug is struggling so. I can only imagine how difficult that is to watch. We are all with you, honey, sending prayers and healing white light.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Oh fudge Vicki. :( Has Scoop not been interested in food before. Did you check his BG? Maybe it is off.
What about vomiting? How is his poops yesterday and today?

Sharlene

[scoora]

Sharlene-Scoop ate his chicken when I gave it to him. It was weird. It was like he just wasn't hearing me but I was right next to him. Recently he's been giving me a hard time about not wanting his dog food and carrots but he will eat Raleigh's food, anything more meaty. The vet changed his food. So far he ate that. It's only been a few days. Yesterday he has such bad gas, worse than usual, then the next time he pooped it was pretty soft. Today it seems better. I don't remember exactly what day it was last week he had one of his weird episodes after supper and he vomited 3 times. One wasn't much at all but the other 2 were. Everything just seems so off lately. I'm so scared for him.

I was never able to do home BG testing on Scoop so if they are off, I don't know. I did check just a while ago with a keto-diastix and it was high according to that, like it usually is.

[scoora]

Just went out for another poop, 3rd today. It was very, very soft. Maybe it's the new food. Just thought it was weird since the soft one yesterday he had 2 that were ok and now one soft.

[molly muffin]

Well it could be a new food. That can always be tricky. Or could be something else such as pancreas too. Any signs of pain in the abdomen? Scoops hearing might be getting a bit more off too. Have you looked to see if there is any redness there? rule our an ear infection?
It's scary how many things can be wrong with these little babies and it's hard for them to tell us what is what.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

No signs of pain. His ear doesn't look bad. He had another soft poop yesterday. Couldn't tell this morning's. It was dark. Will check it out later when I clean it up. Scoop has been drinking so much water about the last week or so. This morning got up at 2:45am, got a drink, 3:30am got a drink, 4:30am got a drink, after he ate at 6:15am got a drink, 7:45am got a drink. Diabetes, cushings, kidney problem?

[scoora]

Anybody see anything of concern with Scoop's bloodwork?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

The thing that jumps out at me are the liver values. Has the vet mentioned anything about that organ?


alk. phosphatase, 2029, 10-150 U/L
alt (sgpt), 447, 5-107 U/L
ggt, 68, 0-14 U/L

Some of the electrolytes are a bit low.


NA/K ratio, 26, 27-40
chloride, 99, 105-115 mEq/L
sodium, 138, 141-156 mEq/L

The blood glucose is too high. Was a urine test done to check for diabetes?


glucose, 273, 60-125 mg/dl

Was the BUN or creatinine listed as high? This ratio indicates something was off with one of those values -


B/C ratio, 30, no range given says High

So based on my VERY limited understanding, I would want to know about Bug's liver, kidneys, and diabetes status asap.

Hang in there sweetie, you are doing a fine job.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Leslie-Thanks, I appreciate your help. Scoop is diabetic, not well controlled.

The vet mentioned the one liver value was close to the same as his previous test and the other went down a little. Not sure about the other one.

Nothing was said about the electrolytes. I'll have to look up his last test results and see what the vet says. I know they should be checked when an ACTH is done. Could slight low counts have anything to do with cushings?

From what I can see it doesn't say if it's the BUN or creatinine that's high. Just says what I wrote. Would it be listed right there with B/C Ratio or somewhere else? When Scoop had his fructosmine test and his urine test to check for protein the vet said he was concentrating nicely. She gave me a couple of numbers but I didn't write down what they were for. She goes too fast for me sometimes. She's always in a hurry. I haven't gotten copies of those tests yet. I looked up reticulocyte. Scoop's is a little high. That could have something to do with his kidneys, too. He will have another urine test done next week to check the protein again.
Big hugs.

[scoora]

Can anyone tell me how to archive private messages? Thanks.

[mytil]

Hi,

I am not aware of any on line archiving but you can download them to your computer.

Goto your messages
Tick the messages you want to download (click in the little box beside each message to the far right OR click the top little box and it will apply a check mark to all the messages on that page).
Goto the bottom and you will see "selected messages" and there is drop down menu
Choose the format for this download

Another way would be to create a new folder called archive and Move the checked messages to this new folder. (will have to recheck to see if members are able to do this - but try it anyway). Look at the left hand menu bar going down the side and click on EDIT FOLDERS. Follow the instructions from then on.

Terry

[addy]

Hi Vicki,

If you recently changed to a new food and Scoop is having soft stool, did you transition from another food over a weeks time? Hopefully his system will get used to the new food or you can cut back to the point durring transition that he did not have soft stool, stay on that mixture for a few day, whatever it was, say maybe it was 50% new food and 50% old food and then do the next step more slowly. Sometimes they just need a little longer transition.

Hang in there, sweetie, you are doing good!

[scoora]

Terry-Thanks. I'll check that out.

Addy-I only had enough of Scoop's old food to do a 50% new and 50% old mixture for 2 days. I know it should start with 75% old and 25% new for a few days and increase to 50%-50%, then 25%-75% over 7-10 days. I told the vet I didn't have much of his old food left. She didn't say anything so I just went ahead with what I had. Scoop never seemed to mind new foods before but I guess you never know. If it keeps up, I'll say something to the vet. I emailed her about other things and am waiting to hear from her. Maybe I should see if I can buy just a few cans of the old. I didn't want to buy a whole case of it to transition over. I'll see what she has to say. Thanks.

[addy]

That is okay sweetie, just keep going then, he will probably adjust, may just take a bit of time.:):)

[molly muffin]

Hey Vicki and Scoop,

just going to drop in to say Hi, and hope that is all going okay today.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Thanks for checking on us. Things are about the same. Could be and sure wish they were better.
I get so darn frustrated. I emailed the vet a couple of times the last couple of days. She got back to me late this afternoon. I asked her about the Renal Essentials Tipper's mom said she has Tipper on. The vet didn't mention a word about it. I said to her about Scoop's blood pressure because I read that if BP is good that helps the kidneys. I don't think she ever took his BP. She said if the next two urinalysis have significant protein then she will start a workup that will include a BP check. That's like 3 weeks yet. Geez.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
When Tipper was first diagnosed, I contacted every Vet I know for information. Each one that was educated, and treated Cushings told me blood pressure monitoring is vital. I take Tipper every Wednesday and have her pressure taken. I keep an on going chart of her blood pressure and weight, and all the tests she has had so I can see at a glance any increases that could be a problem. When Tipper had some issues a while back I was able to fax the Vet at Dechra the charts. He said it was an excellent idea and he could immediately go across the charts and see changes in values without paging thru many test results. I also keep a diary on Tipper daily. If she did anything strange I can go back and reference it and tell my Vet how often it occurred. I am just having a downer morning as Tipper was moving around in her sleep a lot last night trying to get comfortable. In the back of my mind I keep wondering how many more things she can overcome until we get to one that I cannot do anything about. It is scaring me, and is very depressing, but I must continue on for her sake. I know how you feel when you can't seem to get everything turned around and going the right way, it is frustrating. I have been noticing a difference in Tipper's eyes that I have referenced in my thread. It is worring me. My Vet said it is because she is getting older. I am wondering if I shoud take her to an eye specialist. After so much is said about Sards it scares me she could be starting into something. Any feed back on this woould be appreciated. How does Sards first present? Didn't mean to hijack your thread Vicki so enough said.

[scoora]

I don't have much time. Scoop's going for a weight check. I am so frustrated with the vet right now. I am kicking myself in the butt I didn't insist on a specialist right from the beginning. Scoop has too many problems. I wonder now if his kidney problem is from unregulated BG levels. You can hikack my thread anytime. I'm always interested in different things. I don't even know what sards is! Maybe I'll learn something new. Be back, hopefully tonight.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki;
Good luck I hope everything goes ok. God Bless you and your furbaby.

[molly muffin]

Crossing fingers for you and Scoop today Vicki!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Scoop's weight this morning was 18.2lbs. Last time he was weighed he was 18lbs. Now the .2 could just be a matter of a poop. I'm glad he didn't go down at all. I get so scared he will lose weight again. Before this whole Cushings thing started in July he had been between 21-22lbs. since he was diagnosed with diabetes Oct. 2010. His lowest point was 16.2lbs a couple of months ago. So he has gained some back. Don't want to see him lose it again with the new food like he did when she put him on W/D. She started the W/D at 600 calories but when he lost weight she had him on about 800 calories. Now with the G/D food it's 600 calories so I'm worried about weight loss.

[scoora]

I picked up a copy of Scoop's urinalysis today. On there it says to do 3 of them in at least a 2 week period. To me that means you can do all three in 2 weeks. The vet is doing each test 2 weeks apart. Just seems like such a long time to wait. I emailed her again and asked if she thought it would be helpful to do a BP check before the work-up which wouldn't be for at least another 3 weeks. If Scoop does have kidney disease I don't know if 3 weeks makes a difference or not. Didn't hear back yet.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Have faith and keep praying. Tipper and I are praying for you and Scoop.

[scoora]

Thank you so much. I hold you and Tipper in my thoughts and prayers also. You are doing such a wonderful job with Tipper.
Big hugs.

[scoora]

A few weeks ago Scoop's vet asked me to measure his water for 3 days. It was between 10-16oz. I kept measuring. Then for a week or so it was between 18-27oz. I told the vet and she said as long as it isn't steadily 27oz and over, it's normal. Wed. he drank 24oz, Thurs. 15oz., Fri. 120z. It seems strange it increased for a while now it went back down. I take Scoop out to pee after he eats in the morning and when we come in he usually goes back into the kitchen to get another drink. Then he waits for me to put him on the recliner. This morning he didn't do that. He stayed on his bed. So I asked him if he wanted to go on the "big chair". He stood up and I picked him up like I always do. I wrap my arms around him and put my head to his and give him a kiss and tell him I love him so much. When I picked him up this morning he left out a yelp or cry or something. Just very briefly but he also turned his head and I could feel his mouth on my face. He did not bite. He never has. Something must have bothered him when I picked him up. Don't know what to make of it.

[Mel-Tia]

Hi there

I think that we drive ourselves a bit potty looking for every little sign in case we should be doing something.

Was the food different in the week Scoop drank more as different foods have different moisture contents

You could have just pinched his skin when you picked him up :)

For reading through your thread your vets seems as unhelpful as mine, if you think Scoop is off then keep going on till they listen. They are quite happy to take our money so they should have to work for it.

I did all the running for Tia as well and that's not right they should be educating themselves

Hope Scoop is snoring loudly in his recliner now

Mel and Tia x x

[scoora]

Thanks Mel. He did change foods recently. Not sure if it was same time or not, it's possible.

I keep thinking something hurt him inside when I picked him up. Never thought of the possiblilty of pinching him.

Like I said on your thread, I think the vet avoided me the other day. I was bending over to take Scoop's harness off for his weight check and when I stood up I saw her back as she was going through the door behind the reception desk. Unless she dropped something off up front and I missed it but it seemed so strange. There was a lady in the waiting room without her pet. When we got onto the car, I could see through the window. It looked like the vet sitting in the waiting room, turned sideways like she was talking to the lady that was sitting there. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got. I always feel rushed when she calls me. Sorry for rambling. I guess I'm so angry that my Scoop has so many problems. In the beginning I asked her if she wanted to refer us to a specialist. She said she would let me know if she couldn't handle it. She's always telling me now how busy she is and I don't doubt it. Just frustrating.

Scoop used to snore a lot before he got Cushing's but very seldom now. He doesn't bark much but if he does it is high pitched. That's something that has changed in him since the start of Cushing's. He is sleeping in the recliner. Raleigh is right there, too.

Big hugs.

[Mel-Tia]

I can relate. I am not a violent person but I could have swung for my vet a few times! I never switched because of circumstances something I will wonder on for a while. Waiting for them to call is just the worst feeling

If you think this vet is the best care for scoop stay but if you think you can get someone better than move. It's a tough enough disease to deal with and having a crappy vet just adds to the stress

Take care of yourself

Mel and Tia x x

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
You poor thing I am so sorry you are experiencing so many problems. Does Scoop have any issues with his rear legs? Maybe some arthritis and he was hurting when you picked him up?? There are just so many darn things that go wrong from this disease that it will be hard to pin point. I would try to lay him down and touch and move his legs etc. very gently, and see if you have a reaction. Does he have any back issues?? I think my Vet gets the award for the crappiest Vet. I do all the work and research and he does nothing except collect the money. I can never count on him for a straight answer. I always double check what he tells me. I kept telling him for 2 months now that Tipper's eyes look different to me, and is something wrong. His answer is old age. So before my dog goes blind or something I am taking her to Pittsburgh to the Opthamologist. I am not trying to spend money but this is on my mind, and I need a definite answer- not she's getting old. I go on March 1st. so this will either put my mind at rest, or uncover another problem. I am praying it is not the later of the two. I just feel not knowing, and having something starting that could potentially be corrected if you caught it early is the best method for me and Tipper. God Bless you and Scoop. I hope he starts to go uphill and feel better.

[molly muffin]

Hi Vicki,
One thing I will definitely say is that Scoop has so much going on that I would probably switch him to a specialist for his primary care. I just don't know how any general practice vet can stay on top of his situation.
I asked my vet about a specialist and that was a definite not going there response, or that she would consult the specialist. So, some consulting on the forum and back I went and said, I want a referral to a specialist for a consult. Not do you think, or can you call, etc, just I'll take her, you give me a referral. They charged me $75. for the referral and then of course seeing the specialist is a larger charge than a regular vet visit, however, in my mind, it was worth it, because then I could speak to them myself and have a conversation which was quite a bit different than the conversation that I had with the vet. It's just night and day in my mind.
So, that is some things to think of. You can check to see if Scoop is having any reaction if you gentle press on any areas of his body, otherwise, yes it could be a pinch, but with Scoop, geez, it's hard to tell. I'd do some running my hands over his body and sees if he shows any particular sensitivity to any area.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I think you would feel better if you saw a specialist. hugs, Judi

[addy]

I did not wait or ask for a referral with Zoe, I just called myself and told them I wanted an appointment and why and that I was not going through my vet. Our IMS charges no more for a recheck than our GP vet charges for an office visit, either does the opthalmologist. The initial consultations are more yes, but rechecks are not for us.

Some things an IMS may not be good at, mine tells me straight out she is not good about skin problems.

Vicki, it might be a really good idea to just check it out on your own, not through your vet and see what you may come up with for Scoop. I will admit, Zoe seldom sees her GP and I think that may bother him, we always go straight to the Specialist Clinic , they have every kind of doctor you would want and then her IMS is right there as well. The only vet they dont have is a derm vet, wish they would get one. But I do check in with the GP here and there and he gets copies of all the reports.

[scoora]

Thanks everyone. Hearing from you really helps. I am glad I am not the only one who gets frustrated with the vets. I thought maybe I am a bad person for feeling that way.

Mel-I don't know if another regular vet would be any better. I do think it is a lot for a regular vet to deal with. There might be some that would be better but how do you know which one it would be? It's frustrating.

Tipper's mom-Yes Scoop has issues with his back legs. He lost a lot of muscle back there when he first started with Cushing's. When he sits down he has a hard time. He plops down. He also has arthritis in his front legs. That bothers him at times. I'm glad to hear you're taking Tipper to an Opthamologist. Hope it turns out to be nothing but at least you will know then for sure.

My husband and I went out for lunch today. Our daughter was home with Scoop. When we got home she said he was having a problem. He's done this before. She took him out to pee and he went pee in a couple of spots. Then when they went in he peed several times on the rug and she put him in the kitchen and he did it in the kitchen too. She was really scared that he had just lost control of his functions. He stopped just before we came home. I took him out and he went pee again. He did that before he got sick so it isn't something new. It's not something he did often. Usually he would squat and pee many times and then he would finally poop and then he'd be OK. He didn't have to poop today so I don't know what that was all about. He was having trouble with his front leg. The one that bothers him the most. Maybe it was because he was standing on it for a long period of time. I told the vet about it when he did that a little while back. She said she'd check for infection and got a sample with a needle and ultra sound. It was a week or so after he did that. Then the sample had to sit for 72 hours. It was negative. He seems off more today than usual. Just doesn't seem right. The thing this morning with the yelp, then the pee thing and more out of it than usual. He only drank 11oz. of water today. That's low for him.

Sharlene-That's a good idea to lightly press around and see if anything bothers him. I can't believe they charged you $75 for a referal. WOW!

Addy-You're lucky to have a place that won't sock it to you.

Back in Nov when Scoop saw the neurologist he also saw an IMS on the same day. She agreed with everything the vet is doing. She said Scoop's vet was doing a good job. There are times the vet consults with her. This place is where Scoop had his ear surgery. It's a little over an hour from us. She charged $195 for the first visit. We have a place about 15 minutes from where we live that has some specialists. That's where Scoop saw the Opthamologist. They have 2 IMS there. A while back when I was frustrated with the vet I said something to my husband about going to see another vet. He doesn't see the point in doing that. I am the kind of person who's afraid to open her mouth so to not rock the boat but it is killing me. I want to go to the IMS but I can't get the nerve to say something to him. It is tearing me apart. I feel so horrible.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Just a suggestion if you are not going to leave your Vet. I can't leave mine as I am in the country and the other options are worse. I take a very agressive approach with the Vet I have, and sort of tell him what to do. I consult with the Vet at Dechra- I think you should call them, and start a file on Scoop. You may get some help that will put your mind at ease. They are good for helpful information, and helping you resolve issues. I consult with everyone on the forum, and tell my Vet what to do after consulting with everyone. He is by far no expert in Cushings. He couldn't hold a candle to the people on this forum!! I need him for emergencies, so I cannot just get rid of him, he is the closest Vet to me. I forgot to mention, at the onset of the Cushings I am the one who told my Vet Tipper had Cushings, and I got a consultation with Dr. Peterson who is an expert in this disease. He told my Vet what to do at that point. With these dogs you never know when you would have an emergency, so that is why I keep my Vet. I let the panel help me and then tell him what to do. I also let him know that I am consulting with the Dechra Vet, and ask him to do the same. He has consulted with the Dechra Vet many times now. They can help guide an otherwise useless Vet in the right direction. I just always double and triple check anything my Vet says. After all it is your precious babies life at stake. My dog is just another paycheck for my Vet and I know that. That is why I take the upper hand in anything concerning Tipper. I do believe in taking full control of my dogs care. I know you said it is hard for you to speak up, so I am praying you get the courage and take charge. No one will care about your baby like you do as they are just another patient to a Vet. Not trying to sound negative or cruel, just being realistic. With the help of Dechra and this forum I have guided my Vet every step of the way in Tipper's care. It has helped immensely so far, because if I would have listened to my Vet there would have been many errors made, that could have really hurt Tipper. This forum has educated you, and empowered you, so you can do it girl just trust yourself. It's a shame, but I learned many years ago, before this even happened to Tipper to not put your trust in any Vet. Check, check and triple check what they tell you. I am not saying there are not great Vets out there, but there are very few. I think from what you said, maybe Scoop yelped from the arthritis, and /or leg issues. I know when Tipper's back legs bother her, she gets kind of growley. I know for a fact this Vetoryl has changed her personality. One of the Vets even told me it would. She would never think of growling at me for touching her leg if it hurt prior to all this. Trust your instincts and you will be Scoops best ally. God Bless you and Scoop Tipper and I will pray for Scoop to get better.

[scoora]

Tipper's mom-Thanks for all your help and suggestions. You do such a fantastic job with Tipper. I sure wish I could be like you. My emotions are all over the place. I am having such a hard time. Scoop and I dropped off a urine sample #2 this morning at the vets. It's the check for protein in the urine. The vet came out and actually took a couple of minutes to talk to me, not that I got to ask much. She gave me some papers to read about Proteinuria. I'm just sooooo uptight and frustrated and upset and worried right now I can't think straight or know what to do.

[scoora]

What does everyone pay for an ACTH stim test? Last test I payed $147.73 for IDEXX ACTH Stimulation and $105.00 for cosyntropin 0.25mg/ml. Total $252.73 Is that a lot? Then if I would leave Scoop there they would charge for that too. Last ACTH I stayed with him so they didn't charge me for that. Thanks.

[Mel-Tia]

Vicki

I am so sorry you have so much on your plate.

I think when you feel crappy it is hard to see the way forward. Changing vets can be a pain and IMS is always more expensive and I know our little ones cost a lot already so you cannot feel horrible about that. You have done so much for Scoop already

I think you just have to ignore the current vets attitude you know your scoop better than anyone. Consulting with dechra too is a great thing, they don't talk to us in the uk ( I tried!)

I wish I could say more to make you feel better but know you are in my thoughts and I hope Scoop feels better soon

Mel and Tia x x

[scoora]

Mel-Thank you. It's so nice for you and others who are mending your own broken hearts to come here and help others like myself. It really means so much to me to hear from everyone on here. Hope your doing OK.

Scoop's pituitary tumor is always in the front of my mind but now this protein in the urine, probably kidney disease, is also driving me crazy. I took urine sampe #2 in today but now have to wait another 2 weeks to take in sample #3. Then there will be more testing. I don't understand why so much time has to pass before something will be done about it.

I was on Drs. Foster and Smith website. I started looking at some of the things that I get from the vet. One thing is Cosequin capsules. It looks like the exact same thing on the website for less than half the price the vet charges for the same amount of capsules. Unbelievable!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Vicki,

Has your vet gotten back to you about checking Scoop's BP? Elevated blood pressure is hard on the kidneys so if this were me I would press the vet to have the BP checked.

[scoora]

The vet told me that after the 3rd urine sample shows the protein then a work-up will start and that will include a BP check. That's at least another 2 weeks away. Do you think 2 weeks could make a difference? If his BP is high what can be done, meds? Would they start something like that before they know what the protein is from? The vet will be calling tomorrow with the test reults.

[Harley PoMMom]

A high percentage of dogs that have kidney issues also have high blood pressure. The drugs that are used in dogs with protein loss are also used for dogs with high blood pressure, which are ACE inhibitors such as Enalapril or Benazepril or a calcium channel blocker (Amlodipine).

If this were me, I would want to know now if my dog has high blood pressure.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
I know how you feel about all these different issues going on with your baby. When Tipper first got this I was going crazy about all the things that seemed to be going wrong. Even though she is controlled with the cortisol now, I am still always on the edge being afraid something will happen to her that I cannot fix.This disease will devastate you if you let it. It is wonderful, yet horrible to love you dog as much or more than a human. It has great rewards, but also tough consequences. I am right here with you and say a prayer for your sweet baby every night. You are on the ball so Scoora could not have a better mommy than you. Your dedication to your baby will be rewarded. Wishing you and Scoora have a better day today. God Bless All of us on this forum, and all our babies.

[scoora]

Lori-Thanks. I'll see if I can press the issue with the vet. I don't know why it just can't be done now. It should have been done long before this. It can be very difficult to talk to her sometimes. She's always in a hurry. When I email her sometimes it's days before I hear back and then sometimes doesn't address everything I ask her about. I understand she's busy and has lots of other patients. I have a hard time being pushy. To me everything I want to talk to her about is important because it's my baby I'm so concerned about. It tears me apart.

Tipper's Mom-I appreciate all your prayers for my Scoop. You are so right about the love we feel for them. It is wonderful but can be so hard. Hope you and Tipper have a good day. Love and big hugs to you and Tipper.

[scoora]

Scoop had his last ACTH done a month ago. His pre was 2.0 and his post was 5.2
Do you think it is time for another ACTH? If not, when do you think?

Can anyone give me a idea what they pay for ACTH tests?

[Mel-Tia]

I think you have to go by how Scoop is, we only once waited the recommended 3 mths when they are stable, Tia got tested usually around 8 weeks. I do wonder whether we tested her too much and if I should have gone the 3 months but she got low once with no symptoms and that always made me err on the side of caution.

I think we paid around £115 for the stim test and then another £50 for chem and they also did a vetoryl profile which is the electrolytes etc which was also around £50

Coverted to dollars that's around $174 for stim and $76 for the others. I also used to pay £47 for 30mg Vetoryl which she was on morning and night

Hope that helps and that Scoop and you are having a good day.

I am taking it hour by hour talking about her quirky bits to everyone until I sense they heard enough! Probably been classed as crazy dog lady but I don't care :)

Mel and Tia xxx

[scoora]

Mel-You are not crazy dog lady. Just keep on talking. I love hearing from you and I am sure we will never get tired of hearing about your beautiful Tia.

I wondered about testing Scoop because his Dec. ACTH was post 10.something(I can't seem to find the paper) and his Jan. dropped to half that without increasing his dose. At the time of the Dec test Scoop only had his corneal ulcer about 2-2 1/2 weeks and might have been the reason for the drop as his ulcer got better. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The vet hasn't said anything to me about testing his cortisol or his BG's.

[Mel-Tia]

Is the result on this thread?

[Harley PoMMom]

Dechra's dosing protocol states that after starting Vetoryl/Trilostane an ACTH stim test should be conducted within 10-14 days and also after any dose adjustment. Once a dog has become stablized on a current dose an ACTH stim test should be performed at the 30 day mark, 90 day mark and every 3 months thereafter, electrolytes should be checked too. This information can be found here: http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf

On the forum we do have a Thread with polls, here is a link to a poll asking about the cost of ACTH tests from members ( U.S. Dollars): http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1148

Australian Dollars (AUD) http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1151

If Scoop's symptoms have improved and he acting and feeling fine then, IMHO, I would wait another 90 days to have another ACTH test done BUT if Scoop would start showing any ill effects an ACTH stim test needs to be done ASAP.

[scoora]

Mel-Yes the result is on here somewhere. I just didn't take time to look it up.

Lori-Thanks
The vet called this afternoon with the results from Scoop's 2nd test for protein in the urine. The first test result was 2.9 The result from yesterday's test was 4.7, not good. The vet said we will not wait and do a 3rd test. As soon as they get new culture plates in she will do a urine culture and blood pressure check. She said she will probably start Scoop on meds. She mentioned Benazepril and she said maybe low dose aspirin. She said she has to check into it to make sure the meds will be OK with everything else he is on.

[molly muffin]

Oh Vicki, I'm sorry that yet another complication for Scoop has shown up.
Jasper just went on meds for protein in the urine and kidney disease, so maybe check out the thread I linked to earlier. Tina has been trying to stay on top of all thinks kidney and cushings with Jasper, so maybe it will give you some ideas too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Thanks Sharlene.
That's my Scoop. King of complications. I just can't believe it's one thing after another for my "baby doll".

[Trish]

From one crazy dog lady to another :D:D I think we could fill a bus quite easily :D:D So sorry to hear the results are going the wrong way, Flynn has started meds two days ago too. Amlodipine for him, in an effort to gain better BP control. Will be keeping an eye on Scoop's thread to see how he is going. Be gone nasty protein!! There that should do it, if only it was that easy eh!

Paw's up Scoop!!!

Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vicki,

I hate to hear that our Scoop seems to be developing another issue. :( It's good that the vet isn't wanting to wait any longer, tho, and is ready to take some action to help him. Sometimes you would swear that these little ones lie awake at night thinking up ways to drive us buggy! :D Let us know what the vet decides.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Leslie-Thanks. I have to wait for the vet to call me when they get the culture plates in. Hopefully that won't be too long. I agree with the ways to drive us buggy thing. It is just one thing after another with Scoop.

[scoora]

Hey Trish-I wish it was as easy as saying "be gone". I would also say that to the nasty tumor. I take Amlodipine for my blood pressure. It must work. I went to the doctor the other week for a BP check and to my surprise it was pretty good. With all the stress I have with Scoop's problems I thought it would have been through the roof.

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

How are you and Scoop today?

Mel and Tia xxx

[scoora]

Hi Mel, Things are about the same with Scoop today. Last night he was trying to hump Raleigh but at least it didn't last very long and it's not a regular daily thing. He also, around the same time, seemed like he wanted to throw up but nothing came out. Did that 3 times. We were just outside. Scoop had a very soft poop and he's had pretty much gas today. All of his poops have been softer on the g/d food then it was on the w/d food and the w/d has more fiber. He is right here with me and he is trembling like crazy. Me, all my days are the same, worry, worry, worry, cry.
Scoop just got up, went into the dining room, walked into the table leg and almost fell over. I feel so bad for him. Wish he could see.

The vet's office called today. They got the culture plates in. If I would have my car I could have taken him in for the urine culture and BP check. My husband had to use my car today. I'm going to try to get Scoop there tomorrow. Since the culture has to sit for 72 hours, tomorrow would be good. Then it can sit over the weekend.

Hope you are having a peaceful day.
Big hugs

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you. Good luck with Scoops visit. Let us know how you get on

Mel and Tia xxx

[scoora]

Does anyone have their babies on low dose aspirin? Scoop's vet called at supper time yesterday and threw so many things at me. I feel like my head is spinning when I get done talking to her. I feel so anxious or something after we talk. She didn't explain why she's putting him on the aspirin. I guess it's for the heart? She said his dose is so low that it has to be compounded. He will be getting meds when we go there today. She said they will help his kidneys and his blood pressure.

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

I have very limited knowledge with the medicine side.

Could you write down a few questions before you go to ask the nice vet so you can understand why they have recommended these next steps. Might make you feel better

Hope it all goes ok, big hug from me, hang in there

Mel and Tia x x

[scoora]

I had asked the vet the other day about getting a prescription sent to Drs. Foster and Smith for Scoop's Vetroyl. Yesterday she told me she looked at it on line and she said it looks like the same thing but you can never be sure. She said something about some places getting meds being made in Mexico and you can't be sure about what you are getting. She said they know for sure who they deal with and they know they are getting the right thing. Now she has me scared to order anything from anywhere except from the vet's office. Boy, as if I don't have enough to worry about. Everything is so upsetting and frustrating. I don't want to do anything to hurt Scoop but the vet's products are so darn expensive. Right now I am so frazzled.

[scoora]

Mel, I try to have questions written down when I go. I don't know if I will get to talk to the vet when we go today unless they are going to charge me for an office visit. They will probably just take Scoop in the back and leave me out front while they do the tests. Scoop's regular vet has off today so a different one will be doing the tests. She does know pretty much what is going on with him. He has seen her a couple of times since the summer. She used to be his regular vet before he started with diabetes. Right around that time she left to have a baby so we started seeing the one he usually sees now. I'll post Scoop's BP numbers tonight, if I don't fall asleep first.

I do want to find out what the next step will be after the results of the culture are known. Will she keep trying to find out the reason for the protein in the urine or just keep treating with the meds. I do know in a week after he starts the meds he has to have a blood test done.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Poor you and Scoop. ((hugs))

I think a lot of people here have had the vetoryl comounded at Diamondback and have been pleased with the results. I don't think the vets can dare totally sign off on it just in case, does that make sense.

I usually have no knowledge to share with you but I am always rooting for you and Scoop. Judi

[Mel-Tia]

Sometimes it seems like one thing after another. Surely they shouldn't charge to give an update on a condition you have paid the consultation fee on!

Wish I had magic words to help but know that you and little Scoop are in my thoughts, hoping for an informative, uneventful vet visit

Mel and Tia xxx

[scoora]

Scoop had another one of his "episodes" last night. After he ate his supper he got all antsy. I took him out. When we came in he seemed to be looking for Raleigh but can't be positive. He seemed to be a little horny. He just kept wondering and you can hear his nose going. He walked around in cicles about 3 times in the kitchen. Soon after that it seemed like he wanted to throw up but didn't. More walking around. Threw up a very little bit of his supper. Still unsettled. Threw up again. This time it was a little pile of food. He seemed to calm down some after that but it took a little awhile. After that when he would exhale I could hear him. It was on the loud side and everytime he exhaled his body would shake. His tummy was gurgling too after he settled down.

[scoora]

Thanks Judi
I had called the compounding pharmacy(the one where the aspirin will come from and Scoop had antibiotics from there too) that is about 15 minutes from my house about Trilostane. It is so reasonable compared to Vetoryl. I just don't know if it would be good to switch him from Vetoryl. It could have a different affect on him, right? Maybe it's something else to ask the vet about.

[scoora]

Thanks Mel

[Mel-Tia]

Sorry Scoop is doing it tough, I know it is very hard to know which way to turn, might be worth mentioning the sickness again when you go in again today wouldn't want them to give you anything to aggravate the problem

Xxxx

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vicki,

I'm so sorry that Scoop is having such a hard time but I want you to sit down 'cause I'm gonna talk to you like your mom. :D

You really, really, really, really need to take Scoop to see an IMS - or at least get second opinion from another GP vet in a different clinic because Scoop's current vet is sadly failing him, and you both are suffering as a result. :(:(:( It is difficult for us to "see" him struggling and I can only imagine how hard it is on you and your family to see it IRL. I beg you, for Scoop's sake, take him to see another vet - preferably an IMS. You have said that your husband didn't think a new vet was necessary and you didn't want "to rock the boat". Sweetheart, it's time to SWAMP that boat! :eek::D

Scoop's case is complicated and needs new eyes to look at it. It may be that a second opinion would agree with exactly what is being done for him now....but what if there is a much better approach that would bring Scoop, and you, some much needed relief? I personally think it is grossly unfair for anyone, including your hubby, to stand in the way of Scoop getting the best care you can provide. :(;) I do NOT want you to be hurt, physically or emotionally, and if that is the type of situation you live with, then we will all have to bite the bullet and simply pray Scoop doesn't suffer too much. But if you have no concerns of being abused yourself, please get a second opinion for Scoop. ;) We want the best for you and for Scoop...and I'm just not sure that Scoop is getting the best from his current vet. YOU deserve better treatment than what you have described from this vet. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Leslie-Thank you for caring so much. It makes me feel good to know how much everyone cares. I DO NOT worry about physical abuse, not at all! Really, my husband has always been very good to me. I have always been the kind of person who is afraid to open my mouth. That's my problem. I know he knows this is hard on me but I'm not sure if he knows just how hard. I would like to talk to you more. I don't have time right now. I will talk to you later tonight if I don't fall asleep, which happens to me sometimes.
I do appreciate everything you said.
Thanks for caring about Scoop and me.
I love you guys.

[molly muffin]

Hi Vicki,

I had written a long post and it got lost in the internets space/time thingee.

So I'll start again. Vetroyl and Trilostane are the same thing, Trilostane is the ingredient in Vetroyl. Dechra though makes vetroly and the FDA says that only they can made certain dosages. You can get Vetroyl in 30, or get Trilostane compounded at 31mg. You see where I'm going with this? So no need to worry on that front. If you have used the compound pharmacy near you and feel good with them, and need to cut costs, I'd go with the Trilostane, if you can afford the vetroyl, then that is where you should stay. It's up to you. Diamondback IS one of the compounding pharmacies that many here have used to complete satisfaction. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Now, what Leslie said, absolutely, you need a completely different plan and that should include an IMS as your primary physician for Scoop. He has way too many issues, I don't care how good a vet yours might be. She isn't a specialist and that is what you need, on the case, all the time.

You can do this Vicki, you are stronger than you know.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you

Xx

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Vicki, I so understand some of your stuff with the hubby and your fur baby...Get your voice heard, thats what I did for my Simba...I changed vets, found this group and got strength from knowledge and so much encouragement too. My hubby says, Simba is just a dog, but to me he's my best friend and I will do what I can to make his life better. Happy Simba = Happy Mama = Happy Hubby!!!!!! Hang in there!

[molly muffin]

Pfffttt Just a dog. Mine tries that and he might find that he is Just a husband.:D:D:D:D He might find that the next time he's on the couch with a cold but can't seem to move to get himself anything...Just a hubs, just a cold, you'll live, moving on.

Of course he wouldn't but I totally sympathize with how hard it can be to make others understand how much we love our babies and how important they are in our lives.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Sharlene, you are hilarious, see this site gives us smiles too!!!

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

Just wondering how you and Scoop are doing and how you got on yesterday?

Mel and Tia
Xxxxx

[addy]

Vicki, this excerpt discusses low dose aspirin therapy and I have come across that therapy in other articles as well. This excerpt may be rather hard perhaps for us lay people to understand but I copied it for you to read.

When protein is found in the urine, depending on other serum and urine values, a vet will decide to monitor, then investigate to find the cause of the protein loss, is it renal or from a potentailly treatable underlying disease and then intervene if it is persistent proteinuria. Is Scoops serum (blood) albumin also elevated?



There are 6 basic principles to therapy in glomerulonephropathies: 1) If a cause of immune-complex disease can be identified, it should be treated. 2) Manifestations of the nephrotic syndrome, if present, should be managed with dietary salt restriction and judicious use of diuretics. 3) Antithrombotics (eg, aspirin) should be considered for hypoalbuminemic (plasma albumin <1.0 g/dL) animals as well as those with low serum levels of antithrombin III (<30% of normal). In dogs with marked proteinuria and serum albumin <2 g/dL, low-dose aspirin therapy is appropriate, unless melena is present or gastric ulceration is suspected. However, aspirin is bound to plasma proteins and is eliminated via the kidneys, so the dosage may need to be adjusted. 4) Because proteinuria may promote interstitial fibrosis, treatment to limit glomerular loss of protein is warranted and may include dietary protein restriction and administration of an ACE inhibitor. 5) Efforts to reduce the magnitude and consequences of glomerular immune complex deposition should be considered, especially in animals with biopsy-confirmed glomerular inflammation and no known primary antigenic stimulus. Immunosuppressive drugs (eg, azathioprine, cyclophosphamide, cyclosporine) can be used in dogs with glomerulonephritis, although results are variable. For amyloidosis, dimethylsulfoxide and colchicine have been tried, but without consistent results. These anti-inflammatory drugs should be administered only on a trial basis with owner consent. Corticosteroids seem to be beneficial only in mild glomerulopathy; they may worsen proteinuria in other glomerulopathies and should be avoided in animals with amyloidosis, as they are reported to enhance amyloid deposition. 6) Manifestations of chronic kidney disease will be observed in accordance with the stage of disease. Appropriate therapy has been discussed elsewhere (see Urolithiasis: Overview).

Hang in there sweetie, we are here for you.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vicki,

Some tricks I do for my blind babies that may help Scoop. Trink has sonar like a bat and rarely crashes into things but Brick goes full tilt into everything...head first!

I have a bubble-wrapped house. :p The legs of furniture are wrapped and taped with bubble-wrap, wall corners bubble-wrapped or have pipe insulation on them, and certain areas of the wall are bubble-wrapped as well where Brick is prone to crashing. My house will never be in Better Homes and Gardens! :D

Brick is very tactilly oriented, meaning he knows where he is by what his feet feel. So there are rugs of various naps in places like one where his food and water bowls are, one where his box (carry case) that he sleeps in is, one by the front door, one by the bedroom door, one in my bathroom - all a little bit different texture so he knows when he steps on them where he is.

When I first got Trink, I wore bells on my ankles so she would always know where I was. But the sound drove me nuts after a bit and really interfered with nature watching so I started doing something that used to drive me batty in others - dragging my feet when I walk. By shuffling around, Brick and Trinket can always find and follow me. I also talk out loud allll the time but that's not something I started with them. My ex used to say anytime he wanted to find me all he had to do was be quiet for a minute and he'd hear me talking away to myself somewhere. :p That has come in handy with Brick and Trink.

Neither of them play with toys but they will play with my hands and arms. I can tap the floor or swish my hands on the floor and they attack! :p Trink thinks she's a bulldozer and does her best to push my hand/arm all over the place, pouncing, growling and mouthing something fierce. Yeah, a fierce 6-pounder! :p Brick stomps around tossing his head, flinging his legs, barking his weird little ARK-ARK, occasionally taking my hand or arm in his mouth as he ARK-ARKs, that little tail a blur of wags. He will follow the sounds of my movements around the floor just as happy as if he had stuffed toy to toss. He dearly loves it when I am on the bed with my feet dangling down! He gnaws my toes, stomping around and tossing that head, ARK-ARKing for all he's worth! :D:D Experiment with things that Scoop may enjoy participating in even tho it's not the same kind of play he used to take part in. You may have to teach him that it's still ok to play with Mom and that she will protect him while he does play. I had a deaf and blind Dane who loved to play with a really nasty blanket I would drag around behind me. She could follow the scent of that blanket. ;)

I keep 2 TVs going from the time I wake up until we go to bed - one in the LR, one in my bedroom at almost opposite ends of the house. I hate the constant noise but when I tried to keep them off, Brick kept getting lost. He orients by the sound of those TVs and doesn't crash into things near as much with them on as he did with them off. So I learn to tune out the sound most of the time. ;)

Keep things in the same places at all times. If something needs to be moved for some reason, put it back where it was asap. Keep Scoop's beds, blankets, feed and water bowl in the same spot all the time. Toys and things that used to be part of Scoop's day are now obstacles if left on the floor so things like that need to be kept up when he's not engaged with them.

Hope you have a good day today, all of you!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

Just wondering how you both are

Xxx

[scoora]

Addy, thanks. I looked on some blood test results from 1/23 and it says Scoop's albumin was in the normal range, result 2.9, ref range 2.5-4.0g/dL
Of course things could have changed since then. This protein thing was a surprise.

Next week he goes for a BUN/CR test.

On Friday we did not see the vet. The tech took time and talked to me. She said they take 3 BP readings, then take an average. She said the vet will do the average but she told me his highest reading was 168/121. I said I had no idea what a dog's should be and she said pretty much like ours. So that number is high. See if she gives me the average reading when I hear about his urine culture results.

[addy]

Here is the thing about Bp checks: when they checked Zoe's they forced her to lay down and her's spiked from the stress. The vet made the two techs wait for at least five minutes while he rubbed her head and spoke to her. Once he saw Zoe seemed calmer, he had them retake the blood pressure two more times on a different leg. Had they not waited and allowed her to settle, she would have had 3 high readings.

Some members have the BP check done in the car or have their pup stand durring the test for less stress.

So you have to ask " How does stress affect Scoop's BP tests?" Cpuld stress contribute to his readings/ How is stress figured into the equation for Scoop?"

you are doing just fine.:):) I know the protein through you for a loop.

[goldengirl88]

Hi there:
Just was reading about the blood pressure readings. Very distressed when I read the stuff about the bottom number. My Vet says they don't usually do bottom numbers on dogs and Tipper's has been around 160 and he said that was good. He never seems to give me the correct information. I thought I could trust them with something a simple as blood pressure, now I am wondering. Is the 160 too high??

[scoora]

The vet called me yesterday. I had called to request a referral for an IMS visit for Thursday. She talked to me about that and she said at that time his urine culture had not grown. I asked if she had the BP average. She said she hadn't figured it out. I asked what the lowest reading was because I had the highest from the tech the other day. Lowest 147/109, highest 165/121. She said she didn't think his numbers were too bad. I'll see if the IMS comments on them on Thursday.

Addy-I'm sure stress affects Scoop's BP's. He hates going there. He shakes the whole time we sit in the waiting room. I know they are different from his trembles at home.

[addy]

That's my girl:D:D:D:D Good job sweetie!!!!!!!!!

(((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))

[scoora]

Leslie-Thanks for the tips and I love the comments about your pups. They are precious. This horrible disease has changed Scoop something terrible. It makes me so sad. Yesterday he slept more than usual and he usually sleeps a lot. I wish I knew for sure if the tumor is affecting his optical nerve. I would love to have his one eye done so he could see again. I just want to help him and it's so hard.

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

Good news re the IMS, do you have to go far to see them? Will be good for you to have that specialist to refer to if you aren't getting answers from your vet

Be back later am supposed to be working :D

Xxxx

[scoora]

Thanks Addy and Mel

No, not far. Takes about 10-15 minutes.
Scoop saw an IMS in Nov which was over an hour away. We saw that one because it was at the same time he had his MRI done plus Scoop's vet recommended this one. We liked the one an hour away but I thought with having one close it might be better. Scoop's vet talks to the one further away if she has any questions. I asked the vet if she has ever worked with the one close by. She said yes. She said she is very straight forward and doesn't hold your hand. The vet knows what I'm like. There's also a man IMS in the same place. See how it goes.

[labblab]

Oh Vicki, that's terrific that you'll be seeing the IMS!!!! :)

Is this the same IMS with whom your vet has been consulting, or is it somebody new? Either way, I strongly encourage you to ask about shifting to twice daily trilostane dosing for Scoop. I know we've talked about it in the past, and here's a chance for you to really tack down some information. I'm reminded about it again this morning after just now typing this reply to a new member whose dog also is diagnosed with both diabetes and Cushing's:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=96236#post96236

If necessary, please print out the two articles I mention in my reply and take them in with you for the consultation, OK? All along, I've wondered whether Scoop would be far more stable if only he was being dosed twice daily...

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Atta girl! :D At the very least, you will always know you are giving Scoop every opportunity for the best quality of life possible. Please let us know what the IMS has to say and what the culture/BP results are when you learn them.

I'm so proud of you! :)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Marianne-No not the same one. The one she consults with is the one Scoop saw in Nov and is over an hour away. This one is 10-15 minutes away. I figure two are better than one. I just thought it would be easier to go close. I liked the one further away. Just didn't know about traveling that far if I don't have to. My husband worried when we went to Metropolitan(the one further away). The one time m daughter couldn't go with me and my husband went along.I still remember talking to the IMS in Nov. I asked about twice daily dosing and she told me she splits the dose but also increases the dose and from what I understand that's not the way to do it, right? I sure don't want to put more Vetoryl into Scoop and make that horrible tumor grow any faster than it already is.

[scoora]

Leslie-Thanks
As of yesterday the culture has not grown. She said she would give it till today. She didn't have an average of his BP but the highest was 165/121 and the lowest was 147/109. She said she didn't feel they were too bad. So if nothing grew in the culture between yesterday and today I probably won't hear anything else.

[scoora]

I am a little concerned about something. When I talked to a tech at the IMS office about Scoop's appointment she said no food or water and only 1/3 his insulin in case the doctor wants to do an ultrasound. I asked about his meds and told her what he is taking. The tech put me on hold and asked the doctor. He is not to get any meds, just insulin. She also said no water after 2:00AM. Is that going to be OK to not give him water? The last couple of mornings we has been drinking pretty much. This morning he got up at 3:30 for a drink and had more at 4:30, total 3 oz. Then after he ate, another 3 oz. Yesterday by 6:30AM he drank 7 oz. but that also includes after he eats and he won't be eating that morning. I hate when I have to hold back on his food. I told the tech he's been drinking more but she said hold it.

Since Scoop will not e getting his Vetoryl in the morning will he just skip it that day or do I give it to him later after we get home?

They aslo have an alternative medicine doctor in the same place. She also does acupuncture. I know Doc and Ugga have had good results with acupuncture.

I asked Scoop's vet if the Benazepril will make him drink or pee more. She said it shouldn't. He just seems thirstier the last couple of days since he's on the new med. Could be anything with Scoop though.

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

I believe they are asking you to hold the water because they would have to administer an anaesthetic to perform the ultrasound and they wouldnt want fluids or food to make scoopie sick. I think it should be ok for a few hours probably just tough on you if he as been asking for water

Not sure re the vetoryl my instinct would be to skip so you can restart your normal routine but am sure Marianne or Glynda will know and be in soon

I have no experience with accupunture but if you can afford it and you think it will help my vote is go for it

Given you have been dealing with lots of things it might be worthwhile to write yourself a list of your main concerns to take with you to the IMS so you can refer to it as necessary

Mel
Xxxx
Xxxx

[labblab]

Yes, I agree with Mel. As long as the IMS isn't planning to do an ACTH stim test, it sounds OK to just skip one day's worth of the trilostane and then start back with Scoop's normal routine the following morning.

I saw where you mentioned earlier that the original IMS was proposing an increase in the trilostane if you shift to twice daily dosing. This may be because that's what Dechra generally recommends -- to increase the overall daily total somewhat when you are making the shift for a dog who has already been dosed once daily for awhile. (Although other clinicians believe the reverse is true -- that dogs dosed twice daily end up needing a smaller total daily dose, so go figure!! ) But I know that Scoop's situation is very worrisome to you, and that's one reason why I'm really glad you'll have the chance to talk directly to an IMS this time around. Because she may opt to handle things somewhat differently given everything that's going on with Scoop.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vicki,

Withholding the Trilo (Vetoryl) won't be a problem. Withhold the food and water is to help prevent them from getting sick if they do have to use anesthesia and to allow them to see the organs more clearly. Food and water in the system can distort the view and even prevent seeing some things at times.

My concern is withholding food from a diabetic pup and I can't help with that area at all. Have you asked on the diabetes site what they think about this? How long would Scoop have to go without food? From 2am until what time?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Yeah, I worried about the food, too, but I guess that's why the IMS is telling you to cut back to only 1/3 the insulin that morning -- since Scoopie won't be eating. As Leslie says, though, it never hurts to ask the k9diabetes crew, too!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Oh Vicki, I hate fasting days too. The general rule of thumb over at the diabetes forum is around 1/4 of the regular dose if the dog eats nothing, 1/2 if they eat half their food and so on. Keeping in mind that every dog is different.

Because of Jenny's low cortisol she is on such a tiny dose of insulin that I know 1/2 a unit covers her basal/non-food needs.

So, depending on how Scoop has been running I would think 1/4 to 1/3 might be ok with no food. Better too high than too low

hugs, Judi

[molly muffin]

Hi Vicki! I'm so glad you are going to see an IMS. I really think that needs to be the primary vet for Scoop, just because of so many issues. The vet faxed over all of Scoops test results? Take your folder with them just in case and any notes.
If you have any concerns, when I went, I spoke directly with the Vet Hospital where the IMS was, and maybe you could call and ask them. I think that it is spot on that food and water could make any ultrasound not as clear.
Twice a day dosing is what most specialist recommend with a dog with diabetes and cushings. To keep them at a stable rate all day long.
I'm very glad that you are seeing a specialist, even if they don't hand hold. :) Maybe straight talking is exactly what you will feel the most comfortable with.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Hi Vicki

YAY so pleased to read you are off to IMS, it will be good to get clear answers to all your questions. Nothing wrong with a little hand holding either :):) I am sure you will go well armed!

Flynn was on Benzapril, I did not notice any extra peeing, but he was only on it a week or two, he went on it to drop his BP but they swapped him to another drug in preparation for his surgery.

Will be looking out for news on our Scoop later in the week... GOOD LUCK xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Mel-Tia]

Hey Vicki

How you both doing today?

Mel
Xxx

[addy]

Hope everything is okay. I dread fasting days too but luckily the last one Zoe had for surgery was no big deal so I'm glad I didnt spend a lot of time worrying about it;);)

[scoora]

Thanks everyone for all the great advise and suggestions. I was told to not give him any food after his meal the night before and no water after 2:00AM, which would be 8 hours before his appointment. I was told to give 1/3 of his insulin. I will take some water and a treat or something along and offer him some as soon as I can when the IMS is done. Last time I had to fast Scoop was when he saw the opthmologist. She was worried he might have to have surgery and didn't want anything in his stomach but they did allow some water in the morning and he could take his Vetoryl with a tiny bit of food. I will be curious to see if he goes back to sleep like he does when he gets his Vetoryl. About half an hour after he eats and gets his Vetoryl he goes to sleep and usually doesn't get up unless he wants to move to another position. Then sometime around lunch time he usually gets up.

The vet told me she was going to get the referral sent over so hopefully she will include all info that the IMS will need. I am so nervous and scared what the IMS will say about my Scoop. My heart is so shattered. I know he's not well.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
So glad you are taking your baby to an IMS. Your are educated now, and strong so you will be able to ask the right questions to help your baby. I think this is best with everything that is going on. You are doing the right thing, and we are all here for you. God Bless both of you. We will be eagerly awaiting to hear the news from the IMS. Your baby will benefit from this decision!! It will get better, keep saying that to yourself. We are saying prayers for your dear baby.

[scoora]

Last night Scoop did not finish all his supper. Even with adding baby food to it. I was getting ready to take him out and he started getting a little antsy. I thought something is up. When we came back in he looked for Raleigh. I told Raleigh to get up on the chair and Scoop went into the kitchen. I thought he went for a drink but when he didn't go to the bowl I helped him but he didn't want a drink. He circled around about 3 or 4 times. He did that before when he vomited. I could see he was going to be sick. He did vomit. I took him to the living room, with some paper towels, and petted him and just tried to get him to rest. Soon he vomited again and eventually a third time. He then went to sleep aside of my husband on the big chair. This morning he ate all his food but he won't eat it unless I put baby food or some of Raleigh's food in it. I don't like what is happening. I called the vet's office this morning and told them about the vomiting and to tell the vet about it.

[scoora]

Thanks Tipper's mom. I hope you and Tipper are having a good day.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Please read my new post!!

[Mel-Tia]

How are you and Scoop now? Any sickness after dinner tonight?

Xxxx

[addy]

Vicki- vomiting is a potential side effect and the drug needs to be given with food


Using Benazepril for Your Dog
Oftentimes, vets recommend combining benazepril along with other medicines in order to provide a holistic control of your pet's heart failure or other issues. In many cases, benazepril will be combined with a diuretic in order to help flush dangerous toxins from your pet's system.

Benazepril is available in tablet form. It is usually administered along with food or treats and given around the time of meals. The standard dosage of the medicine is typically between .1 to .3 milligrams per pound. Therefore, the exact amount of the medicine that you'll need to give to your pet at each dosing is dependent upon his:

•weight
•size
•health condition
•other drugs in his system
Most benazepril administrations are given once per day.

Risks and Side Effects of Using Benazepril
Benazepril is generally safe in dogs when prescribed by a veterinarian. It's important, however, to inform your vet of any and all other medicines which are in your pet's system before you give him benazepril. Benazepril can interact negatively with drugs like non steroidal anti inflammatory medicines, so it's necessary to be sure that no such negative reaction will occur.

The most commonly noted side effects associated with benazepril include the following:

•Changes in urination schedule
•Increased thirst
•Low blood pressure
•Lethargy
•Weakness
•Vomiting


Read more: Benazepril for Dogs - VetInfo

[Harley PoMMom]

When a dog is vomiting, pancreatitis is usually the first thing that comes to my mind. I would ask your vet about running a spec cPL test.

[molly muffin]

Oh, so sorry Scoop had a bad night. I know you are feeling terrified right now, but remember, you are doing this so that you can hopefully get some answers to all the questions that have been bothering you for so long. I hope that in fact, you do get some answers.
How are you and Scoop doing now?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

No vomitong today. All his poops were very soft today. They have been soft since he started on the g/d food but they were pretty mushy today. I give all his meds with food. He vomited for the first time on 2/12 if my notes are correct. This was like the third time since then that he vomited. There was one or two other times I thought he was going to but didn't. Just gagged. He has me upset with how picky he has gotten with his food. That is not like Scoop at all. That worries the heck out of me.

I'll let you know how it goes with the IMS. Hope Scoop doesn't hate me. No food, no water, another doctor.

I love you Scoop!

[Trish]

Good luck today Vicki and Scoop! Hope you get some answers for your little darling... we all in the room with you holding your hand and cheering for Scoop!! Will be here tomorrow night to see how it went xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Mel-Tia]

Hope you and Scoop are doing ok with the fasting. Thinking of you both

Mel
Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
How are you and Scoop doing today? Hope everything is going ok with the fasting. We are thinking of you both, and praying for Scoop, he deserves a much needed break after all of this!! Just keep telling yourself it will get better. God Bless You Both.
Patti

[Tina]

Vicki, good luck with everything today. I am thinking about you and Scoop, and the others that are seeing the vet today. I will be checking in later for an update.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[Mel-Tia]

With you in the waiting room, hope they call us soon ;)

[addy]

Me too, I am on my second read of all the magazines, hope they call us soon. I'm starting to do some foot tapping:o:o:o

Those dog bones are starting to look good:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[molly muffin]

cracking up laughing!

Checking in on you Vicki and Scoop.

Mel watch out! I see Addy make a run for it with a bag of dog bones!

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

It's ok she can have them they were a bit dry :D

I wonder if scoop is getting a picture of his belly as its been a long time since we got an update or it feels like it.....

[molly muffin]

Vicki it's 9pm and I'm getting a bit worried. Hope you and Scoop are okay.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[milosmom]

ok it's now 12 midnight (which is not a time i am awake and hit the hay early i am usually up 5 am)stalking you vicki and scoop...praying that you two had an exhausting day and hit the hay ...xoxox pleasant dreams you two patty(milo)meka xoxox

[Mel-Tia]

Back again, hoping you guys are ok?

Mel
Xxxx

[Trish]

I am here now, hope you lot brought your sleeping bags!! I often see Vicki on late my time so hopefully we will hear soon.... big hugs for Vicki and Scoop xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Trish]

Hmmmm just checked Vicki's location on my app :D It is snowing, very cold and 4.13am... hope she not lost power or anything...

[Mel-Tia]

It's now 06:54, hopefully they will be up soon....

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

Ya'll get hit by the snow storm? Hope you're ok. Let us hear from you when you can!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Just letting you know I am thinking of you. Hoping you are ok

Mel
Xxxx

[Skye]

anyone here anything??? anyone have other contact info that can be tried?

[Trish]

Oh no nothing yet was hoping for news today, hope your OK Vicki and Scoop too and just taking a bit of time out xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Mel-Tia]

Thinking of you both, hope all is ok

Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi everyone:
I am feeling all of your anxiety over Vicki and Scoop also. I am praying we hear something soon. It is not like Vicki to not let us know. I hope nothing is wrong.

[milosmom]

oh no .....still no sign of vicki and scoop........and the worrying is increasing... :(

[LabDad]

I have been reading here too and Moo (my wife Linda) and I are saying prayers for Scoop.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I keep looking for an update too. hugs to you Vicky

[Squirt's Mom]

I keep telling myself this is weather related - the storm looked like it was pretty bad in your area so I am believing you have lost power. I am also believing you and Scoop are warm, dry and safe, and that we will hear from you when you have power back.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

I hope so too, thinking of you both and hope we hear from you soon

Mel
xxxx

[Tina]

Vicki, I too am thinking of you and Scoop and hope things are alright.

Hugs from me and Jasper

[milosmom]

hello vicki again just checking in to see how you and scoop are making out....i am so sure i will pop in here again later before going to bed....sending you so many xoxox patty (milo)meka <3

[Skye]

stopping by to see if anyone has heard anything......

[Mel-Tia]

Nothing so far...

Thinking of you and Scoop, please post when you can

Mel
Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Also just checking it out to see if anyone has heard anything. This is starting to scare me that we haven't heard from Vicki. Everyone say a prayer for her and Scoop.
Patti

[milosmom]

vicki i too am scared at this point sweety..........my wishes for a good outcome from you xoxox patty and meka

[scoora]

OMG I'm so sorry. I seem to do this. I didn't mean to cause worry. Thursday turned out to be a long day. Waited for an ultrasound then for bloodwork to be run. Poor Scoop's on more meds. Now I have to start keeping a chart for his meds like I had to for his eye meds when he had his ulcer. I was so tired the last couple of evenings I wasn't on here. Sometimes it just hits me so hard. I will post more. Not sure how much will get done tonight. Thinking about it I should have just stuck my nose in here for a minute Thursday. Again I am so sorry. I just don't think sometimes. I appreciate everyone checking in on us.
Hope everyone and their pups are well.
Big hugs

[scoora]

Friends, Thank you.
I just read through all the posts for the last few days. I appreciate so much all the concern for Scoop. Again I apologize for the worry. Sometimes I get so tired and just drained I just don't bother going on the computer. I should have known better and I feel bad that you all worried so much.

Thursday turned out to be a longer day than I thought. Left the house at 9:30AM got home just after 2:00PM. The nurse didn't come out to get us till 10:20 then she stood there looking at Scoop's file for quite a while. It was pretty big. One of the ladies behind the front desk told me that Scoop's vet hand delivered the chart. I guess because it was so huge. Of course I had questions written down but things never seem to go the way I want them to go. So walked away not asking about everything. There's many things to tell but it's late and I will finish tomorrow.
Thank you everyone for caring about how my Scoop is doing.
Lots of love and hugs to everyone and their babies.

[Trish]

Hi Vicki
Big sighs of relief all around!! Look forward to your update tomorrow. :)
Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Skye]

good to hear from you. will check back later to see what all has been found out.

[Mel-Tia]

Glad you are ok, look forward to hearing what was said

Hope you are both having a good day today, I am supposed to be working now so will check back later

Really pleased nothing is wrong, clearly we all have over active imaginations, I think it kinda comes with the territory we walk over together

Big hug

Mel
Xxxx

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

~~whew~~ So good to hear from you and yes, some of us are major worry worts. :o Ain't you glad we don't know your address?! There would have been folks driving up and banging on your door all hours of the day and nite! :p

I hope they were able to at least answer some of your questions and provide some insight to what has been going on with our sweet boy. Let us know when you can and we will TRY to be patient and not chew our nails down to the quick. :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Good morning, Again, I feel so bad for causing worry. I am so sorry but thank you for caring so much. I am going to start writing about Thursday. It will probably take a while or maybe I could do it in segments.

Thank you and big hugs.

[scoora]

Scoop and I left the house around 9:30AM, got there about 9:45, waited, which I know happens. The tech came out 10:20 and spent quite a few minutes looking at Scoop's chart. She took us into a room and asked questions. When the IMS came in she spent pretty much time with us, talking. She took Scoop and did an ultra sound and bloodwork. The tech brought Scoop out to the waiting room to me. I asked if I could give him something to eat. It was OK. Good thing I took some food and water with me. He gobbled it up. His dry food and carrots he gives me a hard time with eating at home, he just gobbled up so fast in the waiting room. At his usual eating time in the morning, he went into the kitchen looking to eat. I just kept telling him it wasn't time to eat yet but then he wanted a drink of water. He went to the dish and kept putting his nose in it but it was empty. I didn't want to take the dish away. I thought it might mess things up since he usually knows where to find his dish since he can't see. He kept pawing at the dish and moving it with his paw. I finally put just a little water, maybe an ounce in a little measuring cup and let him have a drink. I didn't let him drink it all but he seemed satisfied to at least have a little. That water thing worried me because sometimes he drinks a lot in the morning, like today. Anyway he gobbled up the food and some water, took him out to pee and then we waited. They can run blood work right there so they said if we waited the IMS would talk to me about it and the U/S. I'll be back with more.

[Mel-Tia]

Waiting sucks :rolleyes: Patience is not a virtue I have been blessed with

Least you took him some grub and water, I can imagine seeing him ask for water at the bowl was heartbreaking x

Xxxxx

[scoora]

This is what is typed on a paper I got from Scoop's visit to the IMS.

CBC: Hct 56%, WBC count 13.52 x 10 3/ul with 11.12 x 10 3/ul, platelet count 639 x 10 3/ul.

Chemistry: Creatinine 0.3 mg/dl, ALT 515 U/L, ALP>2000 U/L, GGT 92 U/L, Lipase 5393 U/L

Blood pressure: 150/83 mmHg with a MAP 103 mmHg

She had me start Scoop on:
Ranitidine 75 mg
Ursodiol 150 mg/ml
Denamarin 225 mg
She also increased his Benazepril. He was taking 2.5 mg AM. She added 1.25 mg PM

She said:There is a lot going on with Scoop that is contributing to the clinical signs. In reviewing his previous blood work she suspects his diabetes could be regulated although his BG was normal today (97 mg/dl). She recommends a BG curve to be done either there or at his vets. They have to remember he did not eat that morning and had 1/3 his insulin when they got the 97 reading. She did mention to me a couple of times that it doesn't look like his diabetes is regulated and last time I talked to his vet I asked if we were going to do a curve, she said not now. I guess we will be doing one now. She did mention that she felt his Cushing's is being controlled by looking at his ACTH results. I mentioned about twice daily dosing. She said it's something she hasn't done with other patients but she's not opposed to it. I showed her the print out from Dr. Peterson. She said if it would be split to not split it and change to compounded Trilostane at the same time. She said would have to use all 10mg of Vetoryl. I just wonder if 30mg-10mg split would make a difference?

She said his liver values went up. I was told their machine only reads up to 2000 and in Jan. Scoop's ALK. PHOSPHATASE was 2029. I guess ALP on this report is the same thing which says greater than 2000. Jan. ALT was 447, Thurs. 515, GGT Jan. 68, Thurs. 92, Lipase Jan. 606(which was in the normal range), Thurs. 5393. Geez that is high. What the heck is Lipase?
Creatinine Jan. 0.5(normal) Thurs. 0.3 which is low.

The IMS said since blood work shows increases in liver values and Cushing's appears controlled she not sure what to attribute increases to. Then she says the gall bladder is distended and there is a lot of sludge which may be contributing to some of the liver elevations. So the 2 new meds are to help promote bile flow and provide anti-oxidants for the liver.

Crap!!! I just realized I've been giving him the wrong dose of Ranitidine. I bought 150mg tablets and she said to give him 1/4 of a 75mg tablet twice daily to help with gastric motility and reflux. I must have written the wrong thing down when I went to the store. On the paper the Ursodiol is written underneath it and I must have looked wrong. I sure am glad I was writing this so I caught it before I gave him any more.
Do you think that can hurt him???

[Mel-Tia]

I would check with the vets Vicki to ease your mind, otherwise you will be wondering and worrying

Will read through all the other bits later xxx

[scoora]

I have more to tell. I'll be back later.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie

The Lypase can be an indication of a problem with the pancreas. Did the vet say anything about this? How is the Amylase?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mel-Tia]

Sweet, no wonder you needed a couple of days to get your head around it

Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
So glad that you and Scoop are ok. I was very worried something was wrong. Take your time and rest up with Scoop. I know there is never just one thing going on with these dogs, it is always several things at once. That is why it is so complicated to deal with it. God Bless you and precious Scoop.
Patti

[scoora]

Leslie-Thanks. No nothing was said about the pancreas. The amylase isn't mentioned on the paper I got. What is that for? In Jan the amylase was 521, range 450-1240 U/L but it looks like things have changed since Jan. Hope you and the gang are doing fine.

Mel-More to come when I have time. How are you doing today?

Patti-Thank you. Hope you and Tipper are having a good day.

Waiting to hear back from the IMS office about my big blunder! Such an idiot I am. Scoop has enough problems without me causing more. I can't believe his problems just keep multiplying. I wish he could catch a good break for once. Here I go. Makes me so sad. I try to help him and I feel like nothing will.

[Mel-Tia]

Vicki

From what I read Rantidine is a stomach acid reducer to help ulcers, it also helps with inflammation of the stomach and esophagas. It says overdose is rare, signs are vomiting, diarreah, rapid breathing and muscle tremors

Don't beat yourself up, he has a lot going on and there is a lot to remember. Hope that IMS calls you back soon

I am avoiding work but ok :eek:

Mel
Xxxx

Ps we all feel like you do, just have to breathe and hope to Quote Trish, Paws up Scoop xxxxx

[scoora]

Thanks Mel, I thought I would have heard back by now. The nurse told me the IMS was in an appointment so she couldn't talk to her right away but that was how long ago? The signs of overdose are all problems Scoop has had at one time or another since he started with this horrendous disease. Why do our sweet babies have to deal with this?

[Mel-Tia]

I wish I knew. It breaks my heart too

I knew those blinking overdose signs were issue poor Scoop has had. Probably about 2 hrs now, was your appointment that long?

What time do they finish? Maybe give her 30 mins more then try again. Am sure it will be ok just be nice to know x

[scoora]

I think it will be OK. I think the nurse would have made it a point to talk to the IMS if she thought it was necessary. I just like to be reassured. The IMS is supposed to call with his triglycerides test results when they come in. Maybe she is waiting till she has time and just let me know herself. I have to go out in a little while. She'll probably call when I'm not here. Since Thursday I keep thinking of more things to ask her. I'll have to make another appointment just to ask her all my questions. I'm not sure if they finish at 5:00, I'm thinking but not sure. I just feel so helpless. I'm trying to do what I can for my Scoop and it's not enough.

[Mel-Tia]

Vicki

You can't think that what you are doing isn't enough, some people wouldn't do as much as you or can't, we all do the best we can

You are probably right re the call and results. Maybe when you speak to her say you have lots of questions and would it be ok to email.

I am off to the field to walk Boyce, it's lightly snowing again

Will check back later

Xxxxx

[scoora]

Thanks again Mel. Have a nice walk. Talk to you later

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Don't worry you will get it all straightened out. We all make mistakes in dealing with the multitude of issues our cush. pets have. I am sure Scoop will be ok. The positive thing is you caught the mistake and can fix it. Prayers to you and Scoop.
Patti

[Mel-Tia]

How you both doing?

[scoora]

Scoop slept a lot today. When I tried to give him some chicken it took 4 or 5 tries before he took it. He would just turn his head away. Not gobble up chicken! Not like Scoop!. He did not finish his supper tonight and other times that has happened he has had one of his "episodes". Out to pee and poop and when he came in he was sniffing out Raleigh. He walked around a little and vomited one time. All the other times he vomited 3 times. This one didn't last as long as other times. Then he laid down and has been sleeping.

I never heard back from the IMS office about the Ranitidine. Unbelieveable!
I was reading about it on line. It says do not give with food, food will decrease it's effectiveness. Well I have been giving with food. How am I supposed to get Scoop to take it without food? It also says do not give to pets with kidney disease or liver disease. With the protein in the urine he could possibly have kidney disease. Man oh man.
I didn't realize at first the Denamarin must be given on an empty stomach about an hour before eating.

[milosmom]

vicki you are one of the strongest women i know !!! scoop and raleigh are sooo lucky to have you as their mom !!! sending you peaceful,healing energy and pray all of you can get a good nights rest.... we are all here with you vicki !!! ttyl patty(milo)meka xoxox

[scoora]

On with IMS visit. She said Scoop has very thickened intestinal walls and she suspects he suffers from inflammatory bowel disease. While scoping is indicated you may want to address some of Scoop's other issues first.

She thinks it is worth pursuing a consult with a neurologist and she will contact a Dr. she knows. She said she can review Scoop's MRI results and provide guidance in a written report. She asked me if anyone talked about radiation. I said the neurologist Scoop saw in Nov only mentioned I could pursue it at the U. of Penn only after I questioned him. I told her that my husband is against the idea. He says you are just delaying the inevitable. She said isn't that what we are all doing?(something like that)

She said she suspects Scoop may suffer from cognitive dysfunction and said I could start him on selegiline but only after I give the other meds and make sure there are no side effects from them. She also told me you can get it over the counter but I found out you need a prescription for it.

She said Scoop's blood pressure was relatively normal and to continue to monitor it.

Scoop's cholesterol is extremely high which may be contributing to some of the clinical signs of dullness and gastrointestinal signs. She said a low fat diet would be ideal but may not be plausible given Scoop's finicky appetite. Since diabetes can contribute to high cholesterol she said she would attempt to control that before adding cholesterol fighting drugs. They sent out to get his triglyceride level checked. The other week when I asked Scoop's vet about his BG's she wasn't going to do anything right now. The IMS wants a curve done.

This is what she wrote at the end:
I know how difficult it is to manage all of the ailments that geriatric pets develope. This certainly has a large emotional toll on us as owners and you have to try and remember the goal is quality of life for as long as is reasonable. While there are age-related declines that we expect to see, the challenge is to manage what we can while minimally disrupting their lives. We all know that this is a battle we will eventually lose, but the journey is the true end-point and we will do our best to optimize this portion of Scoop's journey. The goal is more good days than bad days and you play the most pivotal role determining whether we are doing just that.

[scoora]

Thanks Patty but I don't feel very strong. I wish I was. This is so hard to watch the little one you love so much have so many problems and wonder why and wish you could just fix it.

[milosmom]

i know sweetie... it is a rough time ...

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Jenny's cholesterol was really high when her diabetes and cushings were not regulated. her vet wasn't too concerned as he said that is common until the diabetes gets under control.

her gallbladder is also sludgy. we opted not to give her gallbladder medicine.

on the diabetes forum a dog had super super high cholesterol and a diet of fish, green beans and rice brought it down.

we do the best we can Vicki. don't beat yourself up.

this geriatric dog thing is definitely tough though

[molly muffin]

I have to say that I feel this a rather thorough IMS visit and that over all you will get much out of it. I agree with the vet that the goal is having more good days than bad days and doing what we can to make sure this stage of their lives is as good of one as it is possible to give them. How that is done is going to be up to you and Scoops doctors. Think of it as just like a child, you want to do all you can to make them as comfortable as possible. A cure is not a possibility with either cushings or diabetes, so what you are looking for is management and how to get that in the most reasonable way, while allowing Scoop to be as happy as can be. You really don't want to do much with the diet currently until you see how he reacts to all the drug changes. Baby steps remember. If all goes well and he tolerates all these meds well, then you can look at introducing some small changes to diet. We can talk about that when the time comes.
Hang in there. You are doing good.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

I haven't read all you have wrote yet as its stupid oclock here and I should be sleeping but I couldnt go back to bed without just sending you a big hug. I wish we could fix it too, you are doing all that you can to help Scoop and if you could do more I am sure you would

Speak soon

Mel

Xxxxx



Thanks Patty but I don't feel very strong. I wish I was. This is so hard to watch the little one you love so much have so many problems and wonder why and wish you could just fix it.

[Simba's Mom]

Simba and I are sending hugs ur way, hang in there, we are here for you"

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

What your IMS wrote saying, "the journey is the true end-point", is what I try my best to focus on these days with both Squirt and Brick. Squirt is 15 and we reckon Brick is close to the same age. I seem to notice every itty bitty thing that changes with either one of them while things with Trink and Sophie sort of get bypassed until they are a big issue....almost like I have blinders on where they are concerned and a spotlight on Squirt and Brick. :rolleyes:

Most of the time, they both sleep a lot but occasionally they are feeling pretty good and want to play a bit - and that simply makes fills my heart with joy and peace. I am reminded of so many fun times shared with Squirt, the things she used to do that made me howl with laughter, the times she was a mischievous Terrier, or Terror as she has been called! :D She and I used to play for quite some time when we went to bed, we had several games we played in bed. But they involved her bouncing around, in and out of the covers, and she can no longer do that. However, there are those times when she wants to play when we go to bed. She now simply lays on her side or back then gnaws and paws at my fingers as they dance over her prone body and face. I dearly love every minute of that reduced play. Brick has a very difficult time being still due to his condition unless he is asleep and on those rare times I am able to hold him, I do for every second he can take it - even if that means the food on the stove burns or the tub overflows or I miss a phone call I have been waiting on. Those few seconds are so much more important to me and I steal every one I can.

It is so very difficult to keep those thoughts of what is to come out of my head most of the time - anticipatory grief often overwhelms me these days. But those rare moments when I see who my babies once were and can still be make it all worthwhile, they make the daily, sometimes hourly, battles ever so worth it. We are on the portion of our journey where the path is sometimes still smooth but more and more covered with stones and boulders in our way. And when those times come that the sun shines on our path, a bird sings, and a flower blooms at the side, we must stop for just a minute to revel in the beauty and glory of what we have been given. We have been deeply blessed, Vickie, to share our lives with such wonderful babies, to share a love so precious and rare.

You are not alone, honey, remember that when the darkness threatens to overcome.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Leslie, Thank you. That was so touching. It brought tears to my eyes.
The darkness threatens me all the time.

I just got a call from the IMS. She said she didn't think that mix up of the dose of the Ranitidine would be a problem.

Scoop's triglycerides were-186
ALP-2986
Cholesterol-596
She said the kidneys and pancreas on the U/S didn't look unusual. Something about age related. I questioned about the Lipase being high. She didn't think there was a problem with the pancreas.

She said she hasn't heard from her friend the neurologist yet. She thinks I should get an opinion from her about the tumor. If it is decided to not do anything then she said I could start selegiline.

I feel like my head is going to burst. Just so much to think and worry about.

[Mel-Tia]

Leslie's words got me as well, I think they say it all

One day at a time, one problem at a time and all with what is best for Scoop in mind, which is exactly what you are doing. Might be worthwhile taking a leaf out of Addy's book and stop the reading for a bit and spend some time with the little fella

Let us know though so we don't all wonder again ;)

Hoping you are having an awesome day today

Mel
Xxxx

[scoora]

It seems like he's been sleeping even more than he usually does(and that is a lot) the last few days. He gets up when I want him to go out and if I tell him it's time to eat but it's just been sleep and more sleep. He used to eat with such gusto(and that wasn't that long ago) now he just slowly takes a piece of chicken out of my hand. Before he would take your fingers off. He was always so anxious to eat. He would scratch at the cabinet. He had been doing that up until recently.
Don't know where I'm going with this. Just changes I see.

[Mel-Tia]

Hey you

Hopefully he will feel a bit better when the medicine kicks in, all dogs do sleep more when they get older

I know first hand how hard it is to watch those changes but like us their bodies change over time and you are giving him every shot to work through the issues he has

Keep your chin up Vicki, I really hope he feels like himself soon. I wish I could offer more than just words

Mel
Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Vicki;
I hope this morning finds Scoop doing well. It is so hard to deal with multiple problems. It can mess with your mind, since you have to think of so many things. I hope my Tipper doesn't get any more problems as they are starting to mount up, and I worry I will not be able to help her because she has too much stuff going on. God Bless you and Scoop we pray every night for him to get better.

[scoora]

Patti-Thank you so much. I hope Tipper's problems stop too. I didn't mention this before but when we were at the IMS I asked about shots for his arthritis. She told me that he really doesn't need to deal with more meds so she recommended cold lazer therapy. They do it right there. I am seriously thinking of seeing an alternatve medicine doctor and seeing about acupuncture. The IMS said he could have both done.

Scoop got a little horny again last night but did not vomit this time just some loud exhaling and really bad trembling.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
My laser therapy Dr. has an accupuncture apparatus on her laser so ask about that. Our prayers to you and Scoop.
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hope everything is going okay with you and Scoop today

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Today has not been good. At lunch time Scoop gets chicken breast. He gave me a hard time at first to eat it. Not want chicken! I gave him just the tiniest bit of lunchmeat than after that he ate his chicken.

This afternoon he was trying to hump Raleigh. Once I stopped him he was OK. Then tonight he gave me a very hard time with his dog food. I didn't put as much in his dish as I usually do. He didn't want to finish it even with Raleih's food mixed in but when I gave him some of Raleigh's food with nothing else mixed in, he ate it. Then I could tell he was getting all crazy. He was sniffing out Raleigh. We made Raleigh go up on the chair and Scoop just kept walking around the room with his loud exhale. When I'd try to hold him a couple of times he was all wiggly and wanted to get down. Then he'd wonder around. The one time he stayed with me he wound up vomiting. Soon after that he settled and went to sleep on the recliner aside of my husband.
Not a good day.

[milosmom]

aww vicki such a stressful time for all of you.hope scoop can find a comfort zone,mommy too....pleasant dreams vicki ....sending peaceful,quiet,loving support your way sweetie....patty(milo)meka xoxox

[scoora]

Thank you Patty

[milosmom]

xoxox
always gonna be here for you vicki :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I hate that you are going through this

[Trish]

Gosh he sounds quite frisky at times though :) Shame you cannot let him eat what he likes as sounds his appetite ok if he has tasty food, like Raleighs.:D Hope you have a good sleep tonight Vicki and Scoop too

[scoora]

Thanks Judi and Trish.

Scoop did not finish his breakfast this morning. This is the first time for his breakfast. It's been supper he didn't finish until now.

I sent an email to his vet late last night telling her he has this going on after supper three days in a row. Before it was just every once in a while. Is he vomiting because he gets himself all worked up or is he all worked up because he doesn't feel good? Whyis this happening?

[addy]

Hi Vicki,

Sorry to hear about all the problems. When Zoe had her growth and enlarged clitoris, (hate to get technical, but have to;) ) it would get larger then smaller depending on how aroused she would get and the surgeon and the other vets attributed all those issues to her increased sex hormones. Since most dogs will have some increase in their sex hormones, along with increased cortisol and Trilostane/Vetoryl will also increase those hormones, I am wondering if that is what is causing Scoop's "friskiness."

The other side to the coin is that "humping" is sometimes just play and/or dominance. When Zoe and Koko feel happy and playful, Koko will actually push is butt up to Zoe so she will jump on him and then they play. She cant really hump him, her back legs are not strong enough, but my two pups will instigate play that way.

Just my experience with my two.

(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
I feel for you. I know what it is like to be filled with worry and anxiety every day. It wears you down. I am still like that, as some mornings I wake up with a knot in my stomach worrying about Tipper. This disease can really take a tool on your nerves. Poor Scoop, he has had so many issues lately. I pray that he can get a rest from all of this and start feeling better. I have never prayed so much before in my life. I have seen first hand that it can work, and I do believe in it. I think sometimes that it is the only thing that keeps me from going insane with all this. Is Scoop still on Vetoryl? My guess is no, as everyone on here would say stop it if he vomits. Do you think some of the other meds are upsetting his stomach? Have you tried any Slippery Elm Bark? I do give it to Tipper daily with her food. There are no adverse long term health problems known from using it. Tipper can get an acidy stomach with reflux, so I give it to her. It seems to have helped her to some degree. It is only about 18 degrees here this morning and Tipper is ready to go for her walk and keeps going to the door. When it is this cold I don't take her because of her heart being slightly enlarged from the Cushings. I hope today gets better for Scoop. He has been thru the wringer and deserves a break. God Bless you Both.
Patti

[LabDad]

Vicki, I hope Scoop's appetite starts to get better. You have been through a lot with all the tests and different medicines needed. That's the really hard part, and on top of that a Veterinary Medical System, that is overworked and underemployed. We really need a health insurance plan for America, but the critics would call it, PoochiCare!

Take care of yourself too, and Raleigh.

[Squirt's Mom]

"PoochiCare" :D:p:D:p:D ROFLMAO!! Really good one there! LOLOL :D

[molly muffin]

I can get behind PoochiCare! LOL :)

How is Scoop doing tonight? I know it is very distressing that he didn't finish his breakfast this morning. :(
Hope he did alright tonight.
Vicki, you just have to go day by day with Scoop, he seems to change so quickly from one thing to another. Sweetie, I know that is very difficult to do, but seriously you have taken every step possible and continue to do so. What about the laser treatment and acupuncture? Did you look into that? Is it feasible for you to do? Do you have a place near you?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

It was another bad day today. Picky eating all day with everythng, even his chicken. After supper he went through the same thing as the last couple of days. He vomited twice. He has so much gas today and tonight.

There is an alternative medicine doctor that goes to the place where the IMS is. She is only there every other Thursday. I couldn't get an appointment till April 4. She has her own practice about 40 minutes from us. I called today and there was a recording saying the office is closed this week. Just our luck. We don't seem to have any. She's in Tues, Wed and Thurs so have to wait till Tues and who knows how booked she is. I asked the vet about acupuncture a few weeks ago. She said there is an alternative medicine doctor in the area but didn't say who. So the other day I emailed her and asked who she knew about and I said I knew about the one at Valley Central. She told me two names of local animal hospitals that do acupuncture but I think I want the alternative medicine doctor. She will help with diets and she does Chinese herbs too. Too bad her practice isn't closer but I'll see about calling next week if it's not too late. Things aren't getting any better for Scoop.

Anybody have experience with alternative medicine doctors?

After my husband came home from work I ran a couple of errands. He said the vet called about 5 minutes before I got home. She said she will call back. Didn't hear from her and she is off Fridays. UGH!

[milosmom]

so how much stress can a cush pups' mom take... xoxox

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hang in there Scoop! hugs, Judi

[LabDad]

My wife Linda and I are thinking of you and Scoop.

[scoora]

Thank you everyone.

Patty, I don't know. I feel like I'm ready to explode.

[LabDad]

Well I am heading to retire, but I don't know if it helps, but I sometimes take a Motrin to help me relax at night. Not too good to do every night for sure, but it has helped me, when I get a bit stressed at night. I will be monitoring around tomorrow Friday, and perhaps write on my thread too. But I'm going to tell Linda to say a prayer to tonight.

[Simba's Mom]

Hugs and prayers from us, hoping things get better soon!

[Skye]

Benendrayl helps with anexity. I can only take one.....makes me sooooo sleepy. and not to often.
I heard something about milk thistle helping..........
if you can find a nutritionist....they or they may know of someone to guide you to. I might try and do a google search and then check reviews, education, etc if i can find something i will get it posted.
may ask if mylanta would help or even pepto. but be careful with the sugars in them.
as you know pumpkin helps with alot, how about trying lean boneless skinless chicken breast slow cooked in croc pot all day....the scent might trigger nom nom yum tunes then offer tiny shreds of chicken but with broth from chicken more. and maybe sit and eat with your baby...hand feed. if scoop sees you eating same thing it also might trigger something. perhaps even pedilite or something to ensure hydration. There has got to be way to get scoop in sooner...........evidently this doctor missed the memo that explained to be aware of pet mommas stressed. wonder if they have cancelation list. there is an answer. we will find it........love on your sweet baby scoop....let me google what i can find. just snuggle away, embrace the sweetness and love, and hopefully i can find something.....i also might even email the nutirtionist shysie has here in texas and ask if she knows of anyone or if they know of anyone. there is a answer somewhere here. thinking of you.......thinking of scoop. embracing you both.

[Skye]

what is a near by or main city or area i can begin a search in for you?

[scoora]

Thank you everyone for thinking of my Scoop and keeping him in your prayers.

Skye-Thanks for all the suggestions. With Scoop being diabetic it makes things complicated plus he's on so many different meds. He has eaten but the wrong things. He gets chicken breast twice a day and he has been giving me a hard time with that and that used to be his favorite thing. My husband says, I guess he's tired of chicken. I don't think it's a simple as that. Raleigh eats Alpo and the food is in gravy. Scoop is eating that right now but when I try to mix his g/d food in, he lets the g/d fall out of his mouth. So this morning Scoop ate about half a can of Alpo and a little dry w/d food with chicken baby food mixed into it. I cook chicken breast in water on the stove. Maybe I could try keeping the water and using that. The only thing is once the g/d food is in his mouth he lets it fall out. Ideally Scoop should be on a low fat diet. I was hoping to see an alternative medicine doctor who will do diets but if it's Scoop's tumor that is affecting his brain, I don't know if a certain diet will help. We live just outside of Allentown, PA.

Scoop drank so much water this morning. I haven't measured his water for a while so I don't know how much it was. But he drank and drank. He was up at 2:30 for a drink. I take him out to pee at 4:30 when my husband gets up for work. Then out again after he eats around 6:15-6:30. This morning we were still in the kitchen and he went pee on the floor. Didn't get him out fast enough.

[LabDad]

Well at least Scoop is eating, and maybe he is eating it because Raleigh eats it. You have been a great mom to your boys, Vicki. I have one of our two cats just jump in my lap, Nellie she follows me around like my Lulu would.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
I know you need a nutritionist. The very best is Sean Delaney. You can email him and he does answer emails. He is an associate professor at USC Davies. He lives in California and developed a supplemental powder for dogs with problems. This powder is not destroyed by heat, and neither are the vitamins in it. It took a long time to develop this. You simply cook some type of protein with this supplement. Like ground chicken. He has put out some videos explaining and showing how to use this product. I would email him and tell him about Scoop being diabetic. He is wonderful, and brilliant. He founded DVM. He will defintely help you. God Bless you and precious Scoop boy.
Patti

[LabDad]

Hi Vicki, it is Me Moo, Bob's wife. Bob told me last night about what was going on with you and your baby. I know you must be beside your self. My heart aches for you. I am remembering you and Scoop in all my prayers. Keep the faith honey. You are a wonderful Mommy and Scoop is lucky to have you. We are all here for you.
Hugs,
Moo

[scoora]

Thank you Bob, Moo and Patti. I'm afraid Scoop's going to need all the prayers he can get.

I'm pretty sure it's his tumor that is doing this to him so I don't think a special diet is going to help.

Patti- That sounds very interesting about Sean Delaney. How do you contact him? That would be something I would normally be interested in but right now, I don't know. I'm scared. I wish he could develope a supplement that would shrink these tumors.

Does anyone know of a good quality canned food that has gravy but is low in fat?

[scoora]

Has anybody ever heard anything about the University of Pennsylvania and their radiation therapy?

[Skye]

seems i did hear something about that.......at least that university. I can ask my IMS if he knows anyone there if you would like. i know that he is good friends with one of the top in the nation for GI issues Dr. Mike Willard. http://www.veterinaryanswers.com/michael_willard.html
so maybe he will know someone in the University your asking about

[Skye]

maybe try........use the kibble (crunchy food) that you were hoping to use. put it in a blender. it will ground it up almost to powder. Then add water. you can even heat it a bit and make it taste better. sometimes it is hard on their tummies to try and break down the kibble and that is why they may not want it. but if you take the kibble and turn it into soft food normally they gobble it right up. and you can make it as soft as you want. and you never know it may also hurt his gums or a tooth to crunch on it. but the blender....love the blender...lol.......it goes to really really fine mix.

[Skye]

i home cook meals for shysie and she has to be a on VERY low fat diet. and then i add her supplements in according to what the nutritonist says. You can reach her online i think as well as clinic if you want her name.

[scoora]

Thanks for the tips. That is different with the blender for the dry food. Will definitely keep that in mind.

As far as the nutritionist goes, I'll have to see how things go along here first before I do that but thank you so much. I appreciate the offer.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
You can just google Sean Delaney and you will see where to email him on his website. I cannot say enough good things about him. Tipper and I pray and ask God to please help Scoop. I know how scary the tumor thing is. Sometimes I get scared because Tipper exhibits some of those macro signs. I would have to have and MRI done to know for sure, and since you can't do anything to remove it, except extreme brain surgery there is not really any sense in me knowing.I think being given a time frame that your dog would live to would really freak me out. I know the Vetoryl is supposed to make it grow faster, but my Tipper could not do without the Vetoryl. Her symptoms were so bad. So I go on in hopes that God will spare her since I need her so much. I never give up hope, or trying to find something or someone else that will help her. I have never cried nor prayed so much before this. I pray for all these poor babies to be healed. This is such a heartbreaking disease. I know Sean has no supplements for Cushings, but more than likely has one for diabetes. He told me Tipper needs to be on a very low density diet. I emailed him one weekend and he answered me on a Sunday!! He is really up on everything about nutrition. I hope Scoop has a better day today. What about if you would cook beans or lentils and put them in the food processor or blender, and they would make a low fat gravy that would not be bad for him?? I know what it is like to struggle with this. God Bless you Both, and we hope to hear Scoop is on the mend soon.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Vickie,

At this point, I'm not sure that a major diet change is the way to go with Scoop. It may not stimulate his appetite and may cause other issues, like digestive problems, that he doesn't need added to the mix. A friend used the UC-Davis diet and vitamin supplement suggested here and her pup did not do well at all with the supplement. You might try some simple things like Parmesan cheese sprinkled on his food to stink it up a bit, or some water from sardines or tuna fish. Green Tripe is stinky and good for them; you can get this canned, too, and give him a spoonful or two in his food. Cod is a stinky fish, as is Salmon, so you could cook some of these up and mix in his food, too. Try some simple things, go slow so he adjusts to the changes, and see if he will eat a bit better using these tricks.

Sending many hugs and belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Vicki;
I just thought of something else you could think about doing with Scoop. I also have a rescued cat that is sick at times. He refuses to eat and will lose tons of weight. I get baby food and suck it up in a syringe and feed him. That way at least he keeps his strength up. Sometimes just getting the food in his mouth stimulates him to eat. It could be worth a try, and would be easily digestable. That way at least you know he is getting some protein for fuel. Hope you hit on something that works. God Bless
Patti

[LabDad]

Praying for you and your baby, honey.
Hugs,
Moo

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I've heard of other people using baby food too. Just watch the ingredients for sugar.

I think at this point if he would eat anything it would be good. hugs, Judi

[scoora]

Thank you everyone for all your prayers for Scoop. So appreciated.
I also appreciate all the suggestions and input. It's helpful to hear them all.
He did pretty good today with his eating only thing is, his poops were mush today and he has had such bad gas. He's had digestive issues lately but I guess the different foods are making it worse. I was worried about his BG level since I'm afarid he didn't get as many calories as he had been so I took him to the vet's this morning just before lunch time. His BG was 200. He's been a lot higher than that lately but 200 is a good reading. He was stinking up the place with gas while we were there and when we got home boy did he leave a pile. All day and even now all I hear is him passing gas and his insides gurgling.
He refuses to eat the Hill's food at all. I bought some Blue Buffalo canned food. Some of their stews cause I figured since he would eat Raleigh's Alpo and it has gravy, I would try something with gravy. Well he loved it for now. I also got some Fresh Pet beef, rice, veggies in a roll. He liked that too. My daughter offered him some chicken breast at lunch and he ate it. Yesterday he didn't want it at all. Yesterday he wouldn't eat a dental treat and today he did. I guess it's going to be off and on with different things on different days.
A few weeks ago the vet suggested baby food to mix in with the Hill's food. That worked for a while. I give some of his meds with baby food. Friday was a really bad day. Saturday was better but the digestive issues were bad.

I briefly talked to the vet this morning when he had his BG checked. She said his vomiting could be caused by the tumor. It's just strange because it always happens after his supper and not earlier in the day. I called the vet office to have them tell her about his bowels but she'll probably just say it's the food change which some of it probably is but they started getting soft when he was put on the g/d food.

Last week when Scoop was weighed he was 18.2lbs. Today he was 19lbs. Now how could that be? Seems strange. The vet wants to do a BG curve next week. She wants him to stay the day there. He'll be locked up in a cage for at least 8 hours. I hate that. Like my husband said, they better take good care of him.

[scoora]

I was so scared on Friday by the way Scoop acted. I thought oh no, this is it. I was crying my head off and I blurted out to my husband that I am going to talk to someone about radiation. We talked briefly about it but not too much. Today we went to lunch and I told him all kinds of things that I had read and about Jessica's Doc having it done at U. of Florida. I kept rattling on about different places that could do it. He told me he would go with me to the consult visit. I have to decide who to call and hopefully it won't be too long till we can get an appointment. I wish I could take him to the U. of Florida where Doc went. It would only be 5 treatments or less there. They have a different kind of machine. Around here it will most likely be 20 treatments. Have to get in to talk to someone. Maybe they won't even want to do it with all of Scoop's problms. I'm leaning towards the U. of Penn. Has anyone heard anything about them as far as radiation goes?

[Simba's Mom]

Hi Vicki, I hope scoop feels better, it's so hard when you don't know what to feed them. I asked someone once who worked at a pet food store what was good food, well she said normally dogs do well with beef first, then chicken for older, and then turkey when they have sensitive tummies. That has been the way Simba has been, kinda weird, but makes sense too I guess. Simba was on hills diet for awhile but that gave him runny poo, it's sometimes a guessing game, always on poo patrol too.....sending hugs and prayers

[scoora]

Hi Letti, Thank you. It is hard with Scoop's diabetes and the IMS thinks he might have Irritable Bowel Disease. I worry about him losing weight because at one point he was down to 16.2lbs. Mel suggested slow cooking turkey breast so from what you were told that would be better for the tummy.
Hugs to you and Simba.

[scoora]

Leslie, you are so right about too many changes. I just wanted to make sure he would eat. I like the fish ideas. Maybe I could try putting his g/d food in a blender instead of giving him cut up pieces and adding some fish.

Patti, I pray that what you see in Tipper is not any signs of a macro. It is the pits knowing about it and just waiting. I was curious to look at Sean Delaney's website but when I google him several others with that name come up and I don't know which one. I never had lentils. Is that something that would cause gas?

I like all the tips everyone is offering and I appreciate all the help.

Thank you.

[doxiesrock912]

Vicki,

Daisy Mae was said to have IBD but when our newest vet gave her Baytril for a bacterial skin infection. the loose stools, accidents in the house, and gas all sudsided and she needs to go less often! Dr. Kimm said that Baytril would have no affect on IBD and he thinks that she had an underlying infection _ possibly from the incident with bad Blue Buffalo Wellness
dry food.

Please ask your vet about that possibility. Poor Daisy had chronic diahhrea for almost 3 years! Other vets assumed IBD and none of the prescription foods had any affect. Since taking the Baytril, she hasn't had any issues and is back on Royal Canon Dachshund dry food with no problems.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
No lentils do not cause gas, at least in Tipper they did not. They are in the dried bean section. They are very mild, and I guess that is why no gas. You can give him Beano if you want to give him other things that do cause gas. The Vet told me Beano is ok for dogs. I am pretty certain Tipper lost weight, and these lentils seem to stick with her more. It seems she is more satisfied than the other way I was feeding her. I know they have lots of fiber and fill you up. I hope Scoop is doing better today. Prayers to you both. I will get Seans website and email it.
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
You can reach Sean Delaney at the website www.balanceit.com this is the website for the product he developed. Just send the email to his attention. You can look on there to see videos you can look at as he has made many. Look up top in the selection for videos. Good Luck, hope you and Scoop have a good day.
Patti

[scoora]

Patti-Scoop's vet just last week told me about that website but I haven't checked it out closely yet.

Valerie-Thanks for the tip about the Baytril. The only thing is most times when I tell the vet about things I read on here the she says, don't forget they aren't vets. Drives me crazy. At least give it some consideration. I have tried telling her these are people who have experienced these things.

[scoora]

Scoop has had diarrhea from Saturday morning and it hasn't let up.
Guess I'll be calling the vet's office today.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Poor Scoop, he has been really having a tough time of it lately. You can fill out a profile on the website Sean has and it will tell you what Scoop should be eating. The videos are interesting also. We need to get poor Scoop on the mend some how. Let me know what you think of Seans method. Prayers to you both.
Patti

[milosmom]

so sorry to see that our buddy isn't feeling well....sending healing energy your way vicki !!! patty(milo)meka xoxox