11 year old Doxie with tumor on Adrenal - Bondo has crossed the rainbow bridge

[Trese]

Hi.

I am brand new on this Forum but I like what I read so hopefully someone out there will help me with my tears and sadness.

We have a 11 year old Doxie named Bondo. Lots of drinking water and wanting to go outside, calcium deposits on his skin etc. Into the vet and we did all of the blood work and the High dex testing and the results (just yesterday) came back that he has a tumor on his adrenal gland (Cushings).....The doctor said a C Scan would help me know how big the tumor was...etc. He mentioned medicine that may help him but would take months. I have an appointment with my Vet tomorrow to ask questions. How do I make the decision whether to have surgery or take the meds. Bondo is in great shape heatlthwise other than the fact that he is 11 years old. He has had his anal glands removed about 3 years ago and last year he had a fatty tumor removed on his chest area but good kidneys, no blood sugar or heart problems.

With surgery (which I do not think I will choose)..how long is the recovery period?

Thank you for any helpful words or info you may send my way.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Bondo,

So sorry for the reasons that brought you here but glad you found us, as we will help in any way we can.

We have several members whose dogs went through an adrenalectomy and I will provide some links to their threads.

Also here is a post from a member that may answer some of your questions:
I'll try to answer your questions as far as Shiloh is concerned:

Shi stayed in the hospital with 24 hour veterinary care for 3.5 days. This is probably longer than most cases. As soon as I got her home I could tell she was feeling SO much better. Full recovery took over a month.
Cost will probably be somewhere around $4500 when it's all said and done.
I don't think the prognosis w/o surgery is very good although treatment with Trilostane or Lysodren will help with the symptoms.
Shiloh was just an extremely happy and healthy girl after her surgery.
Shiloh only took a baby aspirin, prednisone and vitamin A for two weeks after I got her home.

You definitely want to get a feel for how experienced the surgeon is with adrenalectomies. Ask what kind of long term success rate they have with similar adrenalectomies. You might want to ask their opinion of medical treatment rather than surgery. Try to make sure the surgeon has a copy of the ultrasound images and the written report prior to your consultation. Make sure s/he thinks Java is a pretty darn good surgical candidate and the tumor is definitely operable.

From my experience, these board certified surgeons are highly educated and impressive people. You are going to know so much more after your consultation.

Ken

Please know you are not alone on this journey as we are right here by your side.

The links: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3930

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2742

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3676

One other thing, could you do us a favor and check your emailbox (or spam folder) for a communication from us. Once you respond to that email, your membership will be finalized, and anything that you post will become visible on the the forum immediately. Until that time, your replies must be manually "approved" by a staff member before they are visible to the public -- so there may be a bit of delay between the time that you write your replies and the time that you actually see them.

If you have already received and responded to the confirmatory email, please be patient. Your registration will be finalized shortly…Thanks!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Steph n' Ella]

Trese and Bondo,
Poor little guy! Surgery does sound scary for an 11 y/o! Read as much as you can here. We are all here to help and support you two!

[Trese]

Thank you for your replies......Can anyone tell me the pros and cons and what you have expierenced with your "older" dog taking the Vetoryl (Trilostane)? These last few days have been so hard for both myself and my husband. So many decisions. I pray alot.

[molly muffin]

Hello and Welcome.
Some of the others will be by to tell you of their experiences. Some have had older dogs on the medicine.
I know it is hard to know what to do and worrying. Most dogs with adrenal tumors come out well after having them removed and go on to lead a normal life. I'm not sure about treatment, so can't really say about that.
We will be here though any time you get nervous or have questions while going through the process if that is what you elect to do.
You are looking at having ACTH tests done fairly regularly to monitor the cortisol levels and how treatment is controlling the cortisol. With an Adrenal tumor there will probably be more ultrasounds to keep an eye on that too. Keep in mind with the medicine what you are doing is basically treating the symptoms of having cushings.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Hi Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Hi Molly. Not sure of what happened to last reply...I think I hit the wrong button. Anyway, just talked with Vet and he does not think Bondo would be good canidate for the surgery....age, etc. We have opted for an Ultra Sound to somewhat tell if they is a tumor, how big, etc. Then Bondo will start on Trilostane....Hopefully, that will go smoothly. My heart breaks to see him moping around but he will, still, go down and get the mail with my husband and carry up a letter for his treat. You know, the vet, also, told me that a dog can pick up on his owner's sadness so we are putting on our happy faces.

We leave for a 2 week trip in our motorhome next week and Bondo LOVES the motorhome so, hopefully, this trip will make us all feel better. I would love any advice anyone has on their dog taking the Trilostane. Thanks for your ear and have a wonderful weekend

[molly muffin]

Hi, I haven't had my dog on Trilostane but some things that I have learned is that you want to make sure that you have prednisone on hand and that there will be a test in approximately 12 - 14 days, ACTH, to see how is cortisol is being affected. The prednisone is in case he goes too low and needs an emergency dose. You would also want to take him to a vet asap. Things to watch for is trembling, diarrhea, vomiting, etc.
We've had many dogs on here who have been on Trilostane and led out normal lives, but there is the possibility of adjustments, up or down having to be made. Every dog is different. I would almost be tempted to say not to start the Trilostane until after you return from the trip, just so you can be near your vet in case you need to. That's just my thought of course.
Hopefully others who have been through this will be able to give you some hands on experience advice as the saying goes.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trese]

Hi,
I saw your Molly was dignosed in June. What treatment did you do???

Yes, I agree with you on not doing anything until we get back home. We have to travel about 100 miles to get the ultra sound done...then wait for results and then start the meds. Thank you for telling me about the Prednisone being on hand as I have read that several other places. I had never even heard of Cushings and now every detail fills my head. You know, I have Bondo's test results from the High Dex. Should I post them? Thax

[molly muffin]

Hi, Molly was diagnosed based upon a high ACTH and her ALT and ALP's being higher than normal. The vet wanted and indeed I bought 30mg Trilostane. However, I did some reading and talked to people here and insisted on a referral to an IMS and an ultrasound. The IMS recommended an LDDS, which was done by vet and came back negative for cushings. So nothing at this time and we are still trying to figure out what is going on with her. The IMS wrote that she would start molly at 19lbs, on 5 - 10 mg of Trilostane.
Molly could be on her way to cushings or it could be something else, we really don't know at this point. Since she's been constantly tested since March, I opted to go with a break and retest in a few months. That just goes to show you how tricky this disease can be to diagnose

Sharlene

P.S. I should add I'm changing my signature to reflect more accurately her diagnosis

[Trese]

Me again.....I really need to get to bed but wanted to post some results of the blood work. ALT (sgpt) 188 ALK phosphatase 2530 Calcium 11.5

Cortisol Sample 1 5.2 Cortisol Sample 2 dex 2.8
Cortisol Sample 3 dex 2.4 I have no idea what any of this means but these number are all really high from the normal. Night, everyone

[labblab]

Hello, and welcome from me!

Just wanted to pop in to confirm that the elevated liver values and the Dex Test results are indeed consistent with Cushing's (I'm assuming that this was actually a Low Dose Dex test and not a High Dose Dex test?). If this was a High Dose Dex test, can you give us the Low Dose results, too? I agree that performing an ultrasound can give you a lot of good information about the state of Bondo's internal organs, and will be a very helpful final diagnostic before starting the trilostane.

If you do proceed with the trilostane, however, I want to reassure you that we have had a number of members for whom adrenal surgery was not an option and they therefore ended up medically treating their dogs. Historically, both Lysodren and trilostane have been used to treat adrenal Cushing's, but it does seem as though the trend is for specialists to prefer trilostane in this situation. I think it is because higher doses of Lysodren were often required to control symptoms caused by adrenal tumors, and therefore the likelihood of medication side effects were also greater. Apparently, trilostane is often more effective at symptom control with adrenal tumors.

The usual starting dose of trilostane recommended by the manufacturer of brandname Vetoryl is 1 mg. per pound of the dog's weight. As Sharlene has already mentioned, no matter what dose Bondo is started on, it is always good to have some emergency prednisone on hand. However, there is no reason to think that Bondo will react negatively to the trilostane just because of his age. We have any number of members here with senior dogs who are doing just fine on the medication.

So once again, welcome to you and Bondo. And please know that he is in good company -- we have many success stories to report for dogs being treated for both the pituitary and adrenal forms of the disease. :)

Marianne

[Boriss McCall]

Hi!

My dog started Trilostane about 22 days ago for Pituitary Cushings & everything has been running smooth. He has a few days were he is a little down. But, for the most part he has more pep in step & seems more happy.

His main symptoms were accidents, grumpy, a little lethargic (didn't every want to play), EXTREMELY hungry & thirsty. So hungry that he never hungout with us. He just looked around the floor for food 24/7. I had noticed a little bid of clumsiness/weakness in his back legs. but, fortunately not too much. He is only 8 going on 9 years old in Oct.

I was really scared of the drug. but, now I am glad we did it. He still isn't completely leveled out. We are still seeing him have accidents in the house. But, he has improved overall for the better. He is almost as good as new. :D

I am glad you are waiting to start the meds after your trip. You never know when you are going to need the vet when you first start.

Hope you guys have a good trip & we will all be here for you when you get back & ready to start the pill.

[sunshinehoman]

Just popping in to let you know about My little Min Pin Sunshine who has PDT and has been on Trilostane (brand name Vetoryl) for 32 days now.
She presented these symptoms: excessive thirst, hind leg weakness, lethargy, accidents at night, urinary tract infections, and just general not being herself.
We were at the Dr yesterday and Sunshine is doing very well!! It took a little while to start to see symptoms reduced, but little by little they are all improving!! She defiantly acts like her old self again! Some days she has little set backs but everybody has bad days and the overall improvement is awesome!!
So don't be afraid of the meds, they are easy to give and they do make them feel a lot better!! Everybody is so scared in the beginning but keep yourself informed, and this group is the best thing ever!!!! When I started giving Sunshine the Vetoryl, I also started a daily journal to bring to the vet when she had appointments. This is a really helpful tool as it is so easy to forget day to day and especially when you get to the vet and they ask you how is it going (the mind goes blank!!) So when my vet asks me I just hand him the print out of day to day and he loves it!!

Shannon & Sunshine

[Trese]

Dear Shannon/Sunshine , Borris and Lablab...
Thank you so much for making my mind rest a little easier. Since finding out all the results of the tests I am not sure if Bondo is the sick one or me (smile) Upset stomach for a week now. Anyway.... on the test results how do I know if High Dex or Low Dex? Looking over the test results, I think it was a low dex test.. AND Shannon, great idea about a journal. I did a journal when my husband had prostrate cancer. *he is fine now ....10 years cancer free.

I will keep everyone updated and the future looks a little brighter for us now. The other thing I would like to add is when I , acutally, see Bondo's name in print when you write your notes , it makes me feel that I am not alone in this. Thank you from my whole heart. Night.

[molly muffin]

It's true, when our little ones are in flux with their health and we worry so much, we end up with upset tummies too. Bondo probably wonders why mom is all over the place emotionally these days. :) I'd get upset just looking at Molly playing and start to cry and then she'd be all over me trying to make me feel better. Which of course just made the tears come even more. That was prior to finding this site and being able to get some information. It really helps to have others to talk to you who "Know". The more you too know, the more you can feel better about dealing with it.

Hang in there! Go have a good vacation, enjoy yourselves, this will all still be here when you get back.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trese]

Good Morning ....
Well, little Bondo is doing good this morning. He is SO hungry (ha. he always is) so I like to see that his appetite is good. Of course, that is one of the symptons. Another concern, tho, is the calicum sores he has. Has anyone dealt with that?? They do not itch or anything like that. I spray him and bathe him every 4 days with a medicated shampoo.

Some good news that helps my worry. This morning, after church, I was taking my small nylons off and he grabbed one and I had to chase him all over the house. Bondo will, still, lie around more but little things that he does make me smile which is good. I will be posting from the road and Bondo will be looking forward to all the new smells he will have.

[Steph n' Ella]

There are quite a few here who have delt with calcinosis cutis. Do a search for "calcinosis cutis" and the threads will appear. If you live in the US, you may want to investigate dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) gel. This stuff smells really strongly of garlic, so you will want to apply it with a cotton ball or wear gloves. Otherwise the gel will get on you and the garlic smell will leave a bad taste in your mouth!

[Buffaloe]

That is really great that Bondo was playing with your nylon and you had to chase him around the house! He wouldn't be doing that if he was feeling lousy. I'm glad you are working with an Internist; you'll get everything figured out. Have a great trip. Ken

[Trese]

Good Evening everyone.

Well, the motorhome is all packed....I told Bondo to pack his things and he just kinda stares...(smile). Thank you so much for letting me know about calcinosis cutis.... I will look into that.....I am doing my best to act normal around him. I will be setting up the appointment for an Ultra Sound just to see what is going on and then more than likely start him on the meds. I am taking one day at a time. Why do these silly dogs get to us in such a way?????? Night

[addy]

Why do these silly dogs get to us in such a way?????? Night

because no one loves you like your dog
because no one is as glad to see you as your dog
because no one else loves you as unconditionally as your dog
because they are our perpetual children.

AND BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE THUMBS:D:D;):p

have a great trip!!!

[Boriss McCall]

Have a FUN trip! I hope it relieves some of the pressure & worries.;)

[Trese]

Good Evening.
Well, we are 4 days into our trip and Bondo seems so happy sniffing all the new smells on our walks. We did a mile hike today. His "calcinosis cutis" sores are getting better. He, still, drinks alot. Now..this may be a funny question but could a cushings disease test results be wrong ever?????? We will have the ultra sound done but it just seems like he is (almost) his old self with no meds at all. .....

[frijole]

Yes, non-adrenal illnesses can cause false positives on testing. Definitely have the ultrasound done if you haven't. Make sure it is done on a high resolution machine (most vet offices do not have them). My girl Annie had an adrenal tumor that was missed on the first ultrasound but when I went to a teaching hospital where the eqpt was more sophisticated it was caught. Kim PS her adrenal tumor was NOT cushings - there are different types

[Squirt's Mom]

Yes, Cushing's tests can often be wrong - that is why it is best to have multiple tests done before starting treatment...to rule out any other possibility for the signs and elevated cortisol, which are not always due to the disease of Cushing's.

I am glad ya'll are enjoying the trip and hope Bondo continues to find lots of things to interest him.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Hi, glad your trip is going so well and Bondo enjoying the heck out of it.

My molly had positive ACTH, has high ALP and ALT, had an ultrasound showing slight enlargement of liver, adrenals and lymph nodes, and then LDDS, she suppressed for the full 8 hours no problem. Verdict, non-cushings. diagnosis - unknown at this time. She seems fine.

Enjoy your trip. Worry will be there when you get back. No need to rush it. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[Trese]

Hi to my forum friends........
Well, we are now back home just today....had a wonderful time and Bondo loves his time in the motorhome. He really did well on the trip...no accidents in the motorhome even drinking tons of water. We took him on alot of walks. His sores will heal up and then appear somewhere else on his little body. We have decided to move forward with his ultra sound next week. The hospital we will go to is about 100 miles (one way) but it is the best in the area..... I believe the ultra sound will let us know more about this disease.....what size tumor, etc. After the results....we will start him on the meds. I am so torn on putting him on the medicine as he is not in any pain now but I do realize that the meds will slow things down. Has anyone out there NOT given their doggies the meds????? What were the results?

Sweet dreams to all of you.

[Anniston's Mom]

Thank you for your replies......Can anyone tell me the pros and cons and what you have expierenced with your "older" dog taking the Vetoryl (Trilostane)? These last few days have been so hard for both myself and my husband. So many decisions. I pray alot.[/[QUOTE=Trese;83215]Thank you for your replies......Can anyone tell me the pros and cons and what you have expierenced with your "older" dog taking the Vetoryl (Trilostane)? These last few days have been so hard for both myself and my husband. So many decisions. I pray alot.

As a fairly newbie to the world of Cushings, I would say just take a deep breath. We started this journey with our 11 y/o this month Doxie in June. After a couple of months of what was an incredibly low dose of Lysodren and failure to respond, she started Trilostane Aug 26 @ 15 mg. After only about three days we saw a reduction in water intake. However, it was still ridiculously high. After a week we increased to 30 mg. In hindsight, I fully believe we should not have increased because about a week ago she started diarrhea and vomiting. We took her off the Trilo. She is much better today. We just had another ACTH and enzyme profile and await the results to determine what is next.

Hang in there, educate yourself, and pay close attention to your baby. No matter how much you trust your vet, do not hesitate to ask questions.

[molly muffin]

Yay, sounds like a good trip and that all of you including Bondo had a fab time. Good idea about the ultrasound, sounds like a good excuse for a road trip! :)

I'm sure some have elected not to treat due to age, hopefully they'll stop by and tell you their experience.

Welcome Home
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening....

Thank you for your replies....You are right, I must ask alot of questions and take one day at a time. Question for Glenda....was Anniston's cushings adrenal or piituitary????? Sharlene......not sure where you live but my "road trip" is on the freeway (parking lots) of Los Angeles. ha ha. All in all, we are anxiously awaiting the finding of the ultra sound so what is a little traffic thrown in? Now, even ONE more question...if the meds are the best way to go what is the ACTH test and how often will Bondo have to do blood work after staring on the meds. Good night to all and sweet dreams.

[Trese]

Hi,
I was reading over my posts and was wondering how Borris was doing taking the Trilo. Looks like it has been about 6 weeks since he started.

[molly muffin]

LOL L.A. is all about the traffic on a roadtrip. I have family living there. Me, I'm in Canada, Ontario actually.
It depends on what meds you are looking at using. For Trilostane (Vetroyl) you retest after the first 12-14 days, retest after 30 days and then if all is well and Bondo is stable, you would retest at 30 days. I'm not sure what the testing schedule is with Lysoderm. I'm sure someone here knows though.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Trese]

Well, tomorrow is the big day. We will be getting an ultra sound done on Bondo.....He has a few more of the sores on his neck but really does seem to have good days....I do realize that without the meds this disease will take its toll so even, tho, he seems better I will do anything to prolong his life.....When he looks up at me with those big brown eyes....."like, it is ok, Mom..we will get through this together" I know we will.

[molly muffin]

awwww, hopefully the ultrasound will show good news. It's always best to know though. I was a nervous nilly before molly had her ultrasound. I'm glad I did it though and will probably end up having another one at some point.

You Will get through this together. :) Bondo is Right.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Anniston's Mom]

Good Evening....

Thank you for your replies....You are right, I must ask alot of questions and take one day at a time. Question for Glenda....was Anniston's cushings adrenal or piituitary????? Sharlene......not sure where you live but my "road trip" is on the freeway (parking lots) of Los Angeles. ha ha. All in all, we are anxiously awaiting the finding of the ultra sound so what is a little traffic thrown in? Now, even ONE more question...if the meds are the best way to go what is the ACTH test and how often will Bondo have to do blood work after staring on the meds. Good night to all and sweet dreams.

Anni(ston)'s was apparently a very stubborn pitutiary.

[Skye]

Hello! have been following along, my min pin had an adrenalectomy year ago this November. She is 9. Tumor was found with u/s. If i can answer questions at all, I will gladly. I will tell you...........the angels here will help you with each step and you will not be walking this journey with your baby alone. I could have never found the strength without them.

[Trese]

The alarm is all set and I should really be getting some sleep but had to check with all of you. THANK YOU all for the words of encouragement but I, still, cry as I type this. I will post after we get home. It is a 200 mile round trip but the hospital we are going to is one of the best.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Trese,

Your car is FULL of folks who are right by your side today. We go with you with our arms wrapped around both you and Bondo. But watch out...some folks here are a bit rowdy and loud, ya know? :D Not me, tho, nooo not me. :p

Travel safe and let us hear from you when you can.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Anniston's Mom]

Hi Trese,
Thinking of you and Bondo tonight. Hope all went well today and wishing you a safe journey home.

[Skye]

i think your two hours behind me, but letting you know your being thought of, and you are both indeed wrapped in the arms of angels.

[molly muffin]

Thinking of you both, hope the trip and visit went well.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening everyone.....and a good evening it is.
Thank you ALL for your support and words of hope. OK....here is the scope

Yesterday, we had Bondo's ultra-sound done at VCA hospital. This hospital is really good with top Vets there. Our appointment was for 9:45 and we were in a room by 10:00 talking with Dr. Moore. Thanks to tons of research on the net and ALL OF YOU....I was really ready with all of my questions. Dr. Moore said this K9 Cushings is a great forum and he recommends it highly to his patients. Anyway......the ultra-sound showed Bondo's Cushings is in his pituitary gland NOT his adrenal which, actually, make me feel better because now the decision for surgery is not an option. Here is what the preliminary report said

"Both kidneys are normal size and shape with norml renal pelvices. The spleen is normal..both adrenal glands are enlarged. There is no evidence for invasion into surrounding tissues. The liver is enlarged and heterogeneous. The gallbladder is enlarged and has a small amount of sediment. The GI is normal. The bladder is normal. The prostate is normal. There are no enlarged LNS or masses observed"

This report makes me feel a little better. Dr. Moore said he did not see any masses or anything that would be cancer.

Tomorrow morning, I have a 9:00 AM appointmnet with my vet and we will be starting on the Trilo. I would like to start Bondo on the lowest dosage I can. He weighs 21.5 lbs and, I believe, it is 1mg. for each pound.

To leave you all with a little laughter....on the way down to the hospital, we stopped at a park so Bondo could go potty as all of you know....they drink alot and pee alot (smile). He was a good boy and off to the hospital we went.

After our appointment, the vet told us his bladder was very full so we walked him outside...and walked him...and walked him but it was a no go. SO, we had to drive to the park we had stopped at before the appointment and then he went potty. Funny little dog.

Sweet Dreams to you all.

[lulusmom]

I see that we are neighbors. I live in Ontario, previously Rancho Cucamonga, and have made that drive to VCA in Fountain Valley many, many times in the last seven years. Dr. Moore is my Lulu's specialist and was my Jojo's until he passed away in June. I adore Dr. Moore and think he's one of the best specialists in So Cal so I'm really happy that Bondo was seen by him. He knows about us because I told him we are an experienced support group and I believe I even asked him to send pet owners our way if he thought we might be able to help. Apparently he's taken a look around and discovered I wasn't fibbing. :D Dr. Moore has seen more than a few of our k9c dogs over the years.

It's been a long day and it's tough to put two words together right now but I'll be back tomorrow to share some information with you. I'm sure others will be on before me in the morning so hopefully they'll give you some good information on Trilostane. They may even save me some time and tell you about a great way to save money on acth stimulation tests.

Glynda

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Trese,

I am so happy to hear that your vet visit went so well.

There are two Vetoryl/Trilostane protocols to go by, one is from UC Davis which recommends a starting dose of 1mg per kg, which in Bondo's case would be around 10 mgs. Dechra's lowest starting dose is 1mg per lb, so if this is the protocol Bondo would be doing then his starting dose would be around 20 mgs.

Here is a handy link with info about Trilostane/Vetoryl: Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources. (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185
)

Also here is a link which covers how to save money on ACTH stim testing: How to Extend Your Supply of Cortrosyn and Lower the Cost of ACTH Stimulation Testing (http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-extend-your-supply-of-cortrosyn.html)

Wishing you and Bondo the best of luck and please keep us updated!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[molly muffin]

I am so glad to hear that things went well and you met with a highly recommended vet. I take Glynda's recommendation pretty highly. LOL So over all I think you are in good hands now.

How funny Bondo is. I guess he just really liked that park!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Boriss McCall]

I am so happy for you & Bondo... Now you can start treatment & be on your way to better days! :)

[Skye]

HORRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
isnt it cute how they need to have just the perfect place to potty!!!! lol aweee
he was having bladder shyness. lol

[Trese]

Hi to all.
Yesterday, I went to his regular vet and he has ordered the Trilo (20mg). I have another appointment next week for blood work and then we will begin. You know, I just have a strange feeling my vet (without really saying the words) feels Bondo (since he is 11 years old) should not take anything. He told me he has alot of patients that have cushings and they are just not taking any action........However I told him that when we start the Trilo and IF Bondo has alot of bad reactions, we can, always, pull him off and he agreed. I will post again next week and THANK YOU for being there for me....

[molly muffin]

It's kind of strange with the General vets. I think that quite a few of them have a sort of mind set that they have determined, that says, this is the way I want to treat this disease. End of story. If you step outside of that box, you get Very strange reactions from them.
Have a good weekend!
hugs,
Sharlene

[Harley PoMMom]

The medicines for treating a dog with Cushing's are very strong. These strong medicines are used to help abate/control the symptoms of Cushing's, they are not a cure for this dratted disease.

Some vets and even pet parents feel that if the Cushing symptoms are not that bothersome to their furbaby than no treatment is necessary, especially if severe pain from arthritis or really awful allergies are masked by the elevated cortisol.

[molly muffin]

I can totally believe that. Have you heard of vets who don't recommend any treatment for cushings though?
That is a new one for me.

Sharlene

[addy]

Yes, Sharlene, there are times a vet will not suggest treatment if there is a current illness that would not allow it or that illness would become worse.

Also some vets will advise not to treat just becuase they dont know any better because the disease is hard to diagnosis and they are afraid of the drugs.

Love ya,
addy

[molly muffin]

Thanks Addy. I know you shouldn't treat cushings if there is another illness. I was wondering though about one who has just straight out recommends not treating at all for cushings. I think you supplied the answer to that though too. :)


Hugs,
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

A couple of years ago, I was looking for vets to treat Squirt while visiting a friend in case something happened. Out of something like 14 vets I called, only one treated Cushing's. The rest either simply didn't treat it or sent the pups to Memphis to an IMS. I was floored but have found this response not to be uncommon at all. The reasons were varied - owners wouldn't or couldn't do their part, there is no cure so no point in treating, they didn't know enough and didn't want to learn, it is too complicated for a GP vet. So, yes, vets will tell folks not to treat even in the face of obvious signs or when presented with a cush pup already on treatment.

Cushing's is difficult for not only us but for the vets as well. They aren't taught a great deal about this in school and what they are taught isn't positive...owners will fail to do their part or can't afford it so don't bother mentioning treatment, and that two year thing, ya know. :rolleyes:;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Trese]

Good Morning to all
First of all, if any of our readers are anywhere near "Sandy" my thoughts and prayers have been with all of you these last few days. How very sad.

Well, yesterday was our appointment with Bondo's vet. He said he did not need to do any blood work now but to wait 7 days after we start the Trilo. Bondo weighs 22 lbs and he put him on the 30 mg. After doing some research and thinking he should only be on the 20 mg. ....the 30 mg did fit into his weight range.

I gave him his first pill this morning and I am the who ( I think) are having the symptoms..... I will watch him very carefully but, still, treating him like normal. The vet said I could take him off at any time and to call him if I need him. Like several post have sugguested that I get a prepscription for the presidone which I did...(*thank you all)

I agree with Leslie that most vets do not really "treat" cushings as so many of their clients do not want that expense of the Trilo for the rest of their dog's life and if the dog only has a few of the many symptoms they just let the dog be.

However, I do believe that there is a difference in ENLARGED glands and a TUMOR on the either gland. Am I right?????? Bondo just has enlarged glands, no tumors. If a tumor is present, the vet may have been more interested in starting the dog on some type of treatment.

Happy Halloween to all of you and stay safe.

Love and dog licks to each and every one of you.
T

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Trese,

True Cushing's always involved a tumor. Either on the pituitary gland or on the adrenal glands. Most cush pups, 85%, have the pituitary tumor which leads to the diagnosis of PDH - pituitary dependent hyperadrenocorticism. The remainder of cush pups, about 15%, are diagnosed with ADH - adrenal dependent hyperadrenocorticism. Both are true Cushing's, the tumor placement dictate whether it is PDH or ADH. But tumors are always involved. There is another form called Atypical (not considered true Cushing's) in which the cortisol is normal but one or more of the intermediate hormones are elevated. In this form, a tumor may or may not be present on the pituitary.

In general tho, Cushing's = a tumor. ;)

Hope that helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Usually enlarged adrenal glands, and you have done all the tests and come back positive for cushings, the LDDS, ACTH, Urine, ultrasound, then it is probable that like Leslie says, there is a pituitary tumor. Many of these are very, very small.

How's it going with Bondo? First day nerves?

hugs,
Sharlene

[Trese]

Hello to all.
It is a very windy night this evening and we may get some needed rain. yeh. I have not posted for awhile as I was keeping a journal for my Bondo and wanted to post that......

Bondo started on his Trilo (30 mg.) on Oct.31st. I had to go into the Vet to pick up Trilo and he was going to do blood work but decided not to. Home I went with Trilo in hand.

Oct. 31st. 8:40 gave first pill. I give Bondo a small piece of chicken with the pill tucked inside....then I put his meal down
11:50.........resting
1:00............I think feeling good. Barked at postman.
2:46...........wants me to play with his Sqeaky with him
5:00 ...........ate dinner

November 1st.
7:45 .............gave pill the same way. This is what I feed Bondo...Chicken Breast meat I just bake in the oven with a little water. I make up alot of pieces and freeze them, small amount of brown rice, small amount of raw carrots and dry dog food ( Natural Choice) and I just started adding VITAL made by Fresh Pet. It is called Complete Meals.
Rest of day went well
9:15 PM Very groggy and moving slow. His stomach is making alot of noises.

November 2nd
Same routine. His water consumption is down a bit. He is, still, hungry alot. Sat in the sun with him today He seems just to start off into space at times.

November 3rd. Very good day. He is very perky.

November 4th Good day again. His sores are,still, there on his neck and body.

November 5th Good day

November 6th
9:30 picked up Bondo and he let out a little yelp. I think I just pinched his skin. Hope nothing else is wrong.

November 7th.
Good day.....had Vet appointment at 4:00 pm and the Vet was happy with the results. He wants me to come back again in a week. The results : White blood cells a little low, Platets were at 68. His cortisal was a 6 with the range being 1.1- 5.0 the vets tells me.

So that brings us up to today and I just checked on the "I call him the little money pit".....and he sleeping very nicely up in the recliner with his blanket tucked around him......He is such a good boy.

The VCA hospita sent me the ultra sound results and I will post them here in my next post.

The reason this post in so long, I just wanted to give new "cushings" dog owners info that not all dogs have adverse reactions to trilo and you must think postive and take one day at a time..... Night to all.

[lulusmom]

The acth stimulation test must be done within 4 to 6 hours after dosing. If you give Bondo his pill at 8:00 am, you need to have him to your vet by 12:00 and really no later than 1:00. A post stimulated number of 6 is good but given that the stim test was done way too late in the day, I think Bondo's cortisol levels are actually lower. That plus the fact that cortisol will usually continue to fall in the first two weeks and sometimes well into the first 30 days, I don't think Bondo has much leeway so please keep a very close eye on him for signs of low cortisol. It's very possible that 30mg will prove to be too much for him.

ACTH stim tests are not cheap and since Bondo is a smaller dog, you can save a lot of money by providing your vet with information on how to store the stimulating agent, cortrosyn. This stuff is liquid gold and even though instructions call for using the entire vial, your vet need only use 5ug/kg. There are 250ug in each vial so I'm sure you would get several stim tests out of one vial. Please either refer your vet to the url below or print out the article and give it to your vet. It will be well worth your while to help your vet help you.

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-to-dilute-and-store-cortrosyn-for.html

Also make sure your vet understands how to monitor treatment properly so that undue risk to Bondo are mitigated. You can help your vet by providing him the url below to Dechra's treatment and monitoring charts.

http://www.dechra-us.com/files//dechraUSA/downloads/Client%20Literature/47902_VETORYL_10mg_Treatment_and_Monitoring_Brochu re_Update_3_2_ps.pdf

If you have any questions about any of this, please don't hesitate to ask. It's all a lot to absorb.

Glynda

[labblab]

From what you are describing, I am wondering whether perhaps your vet just drew a resting cortisol level on Wednesday, rather than a full ACTH stim test? Were there two blood draws an hour apart, or only a single one? Since Bondo is only one week into treatment, I am thinking that maybe your vet is waiting until the two-week mark to perform a full stim. He may have chosen to draw a resting cortisol level just for some added confidence that Bondo is not dropping too low on this initial dose of trilostane. Some vets are starting to add baseline cortisols into the initial protocol as "interim" readings. And if the resting cortisol was 6, then he was definitely not too low at that time.

But if it WAS a full ACTH stim test, then Glynda is exactly correct in everything that she has advised you...

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Sounds like Bondo is doing pretty good on his journey. I love the diary! It really does help doesn't it!

Give Bondo a belly rub from me and Molly!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening.
Thanks for all the great websites which I will print out and give to my Vet. As far as the blood work... Marianne, I believe you are right in what type of blood work was done. Glynda, I don't think it was a ACTH test as I called the office and asked if Bondo should be fasting and they told me no. I really do keep my eye on the "little money pit" and he seems very perky and VERY hungry still. Like I mentioned before, not as much water intake.

My next appointment is on Wednesday and the Vet said he wants to do more blood work and I will ask him that type of blood test he is doing.

Sweet Dreams to all

[labblab]

Thanks for this additional info. And just to let you know, Bondo should not be fasted for the monitoring ACTH test, either. The morning dose of trilostane should be given along with at least a small meal, or else the drug will not be metabolized properly and the results may be skewed upward.

Marianne

[Trese]

Thanks for the info, Marianne. I do give Bondo the Trilostane with his morning meal which is between 7:00 AM and 8:00 AM. I will be doing the next blood work at 4:00 PM which was the same time the last blood work was done. I give the Trilo the same way every morning. Sweet Dreams to all.

[labblab]

I believe you do need to find out in advance exactly what bloodwork is being done. According to Dechra's published protocol, Bondo ought to be having an ACTH test this week since he will be two weeks into treatment. If so, 4:00 is way too late in the day for the test to be meaningful, just as Glynda explained earlier. I encourage you to find out out when your vet does plan to perform the first monitoring ACTH test if it is not this Wednesday.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

If there has been that much time between his morning dose and the ACTHs that have been done to date, your vet has been wasting your money and putting Kaibo through the stress of a test that is meaningless. Timing is critical with these drugs. For a Trilo (Vetoryl) pup, the ACTH must be given within 4-6 hours of the last dose so if he is getting his dose between 7 - 8 am, the ACTH must be completed, both draws, no later than 1pm...and that would be pushing it. Otherwise the results do not provide an accurate picture and could result in dose changes that are not needed.

You can find the Dechra brochure in our Helpful Resource section that gives the info your vet needs to understand the testing procedures for this drug. You might want to print it out and take it with you next time so you can discuss this with them. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Hey Leslie, just so you'll know, Trese doesn't think any monitoring ACTHs have been done so far. This will only be Bondo's second week on the trilo, and we are thinking that only a resting cortisol level was taken at the one-week mark. But you're so right -- Dechra would now be recommending that an ACTH be done, and within that 4 -6 hour timeframe. So we'll see what Bondo's vet has planned.

[apollo6]

Tresa
Welcome
I am Angel Apollo's Mom.
Apollo was diagnosed with Cushing over two years ago. he almost made it to his 14th birthday. It is never to late to help our fur balls.
LIsten to your gut. You know your baby better than anyone else.
As far as the potty stuff. Dachshunds have their own mind as to when and where they will go. My angel had me going to 3 or more place just in the yard until he would go. but that is what is so special about dachie's, stubborn, stuck up, a mind of their own.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[molly muffin]

You know, probably a good idea to call the vet and ask them about the timing for doing the test, because according to all the protocols I've read, the ACTH while on meds, has to be done, within that 4 - 6 hour window for accurate results. We want, accurate, happy results!
It's the rule, not accepting anything less than good results this week. :) :)

Hugs,
Sharlene

[labblab]

Me again, Trese. I just wanted to add that it is possible that your vet is planning to just check a baseline cortisol again this week. Contrary to Dechra's published protocol, I'm aware that a few specialists are now opting to wait until the 30-day mark for a full ACTH as long as the dog looks well and interim baseline cortisols are above a certain level. I'm guessing the theory is that they want to allow the trilo to "work" for a full month before considering an increase, and a high-enough baseline cortisol supplies some assurance that the cortisol isn't dropping too low in the meantime.

But you'll want to know for certain as to your vet's gameplan -- which test is being done when, and why.

Marianne

[Trese]

First of all................all of you are the very BEST. You are so caring and concerned and that means the world to me. I have printed out the Dechra paperwork and will take that with me to the vet tomorrow. I will (for sure) ask EXACTLY what blood test are being done and get copies of those.

Here is what the ultra sound report said:

Discussed pituitary dependent Cushings. Left adrenal gland is enlarged, no tumor seen. Right adrenal enlarged, no tumor seen. Liver enlarged-hyperechoic. Small chance for tumor cannot rule out 100%. Recheck with family vet for continued care.

Both kidneys are normal size and shape with normal renal pelvises. The spleen is normal. Both adrenal glands are enlarged. There is no evidence for invasion into surrounding tissues. The liver is enlarged and heterogeneous. The gallbladder is enlarged and has a small amount of sedimnet. The GI is normal and the bladder is normal. The prostate is normal. There are no enlarged lymph nodes or masses observed.

Night, everyone.

[Trese]

Hi everyone.

Home from the vet. It is so funny, Bondo shakes all the way there and when we get there, he can hardly wait to get of the car and he is crying so loud people look at us. Once he is out of the car,he is fine. When we start home, he is fine.

Anyway, the Vet did a regular blood panel and said everything looked good and he did not have to do a "resting cortisol" blood test like last week. He wanst to do another blood test in three weeks from today. I gave him the printouts from the Dechra website. Thanks for the suggestion.

My vet said Bondo was doing really well and he will make the decision about the ACTH test when we come in again.

[labblab]

My vet said Bondo was doing really well and he will make the decision about the ACTH test when we come in again.
When you go in again, it will have been five weeks since Bondo started on the trilo. I know of no researcher nor specialist who recommends waiting any longer than a month to perform the first full ACTH test. I know I am sounding pushy, but at this point, I believe you need to get proactive about this testing and make sure that an ACTH is going to be scheduled on time, in advance. Your vet needs to have the stimulating agent already on hand, and the test has to be scheduled within the time frame we've discussed after his morning dose. For Bondo's safety while taking this drug, you can't wait and just talk about it at your next visit. :o

By the way, here's a link to an article you can give your vet that may help save money on Bondo's ACTH testing:

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-extend-your-supply-of-cortrosyn.html

Marianne

[lulusmom]

It is very odd that your vet is doing blood chemistry tests rather than the acth stimulation test. Does Bondo have another condition that requires so many blood chemistries? Do you know why he is not following monitoring protocol and conducting the required acth stimulation tests?

Glynda

[molly muffin]

I agree, really weird not to have tested ACTH by this point.

Molly is exactly like Bondo, well, sort of, she shakes all the way there, can't decide once she gets to the vet if she is happy to see them or wants to leave and then is happy with no shaking all the way home.

Sharlene

[molly muffin]

OMG, is that a Bondo Picture I see on your Avatar!!! Tooooooo cute!

Hugs, Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

I bet you are super busy with Thanksgiving. Give Bondo a belly rub and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Hi there, I have a 10 year old doxie named Simba with cushings, he is being treated with meds, his pot belly went away and his water in take, but I wonder sometimes about the side affects.

[Trese]

Good Evening
Yes, I posted Bondo's picture on his Avatar. Bondo is doing great with the Trilo. I called the vet today to ask (AGAIN) about giving the ACTH test and expect a call back tomorrow. You know, I have to agree with all of you about doing the ACTH test. The blood panel was about 124.00 and the resting cortisal test was another 100.00. Wouldn't the ACTH be a better test and I am sure not quite that costly. What does the ACTH test cost???? I spoke with my vet's tech and explained she had to order the stim agent in advance. She, also, told me my vet is only treating two other dogs with cushings. I think I will make a call down to the VCA hospital and I can talk with a vet that is "on call" there to see what their procedure is.

Regardless of the cost, I want to make sure Bondo is going in the right direction. I love him so much. AND yes...getting ready for the Turkey Day. Wishing all of you good times with friends and family.

Night and sweet dreams.

[lulusmom]

It appears that your vet is not very experienced with cushing's so I am concerned about Bondo as well as the other two dogs in his care. Marianne gave you a link to some great information on how to save money by splitting the vials of cortrosyn, the stimulating agent. It is cortrosyn that makes the acth stimulation test so darned expensive. I can tell you right now that the stim tests at VCA are expensive which is why I have a general practitioner do the acth stimulation test.

Why don't you print out Dr. Peterson's blog on "How to extend the supply of cortrosyn and lower the cost of an acth stimulation test" and take it to your vet. For Bondo's size, your vet can easily get five acth stimulation tests out of one vial of cortrosyn. This is a huge savings. One member was able to drop the cost of acth stim tests by $100. I pay $169 as opposed to the almost $300 at VCA. If you like your vet, it may be worth your while to educate him on proper treatment monitoring and how he can save himself and his clients a lot of money.

I just had a conversation with a vet here in Ontario who told me that he loves internal medicine but apparently he doesn't do much continuing education because he was not aware of how to save cortrosyn. He said he's good at following directions and uses the entire vial with each stim test. I told him that was fine with dogs over 40 pounds but he could save pet owners with small dogs a lot of money if he would split the vials. I already liked this guy for his approach to vaccines, his gregarious bedside manner and his amazing gentleness with the dogs.....and I liked him even more when he told me he would split the cortrosyn for my dog. That's huge because I'm about to restart treatment for Lulu again so multiple stim tests will be necessary until we get her stabilized. I'm hoping to beat the $169 I'm currently paying.

[Trese]

Hi to Simba's Mom. Hope your little Doxie is doing better each day. Is Simba on the Trilo and for how long?
Hi to Lulu's Mom. Thank you for your words. I did print out the article on how to split the cortosyn and took it into my vet. You know, I have to agree with you on I do not believe he is versed in taking care of dogs with Cushings but I really do like him. I guess my main concern is "why" the blood panel (like you said, as well as others) and why not just do the stim testing. The bottom line is what is best for my Bondo. As far as the cost goes, it would be almost the same price. I have read tons of internet pages and they say to do the stim to make sure the Trilo is doing what it is supposed to do. I have been talking with my Vet's tech and she may be the one who moves things in the right direction.

One question, tho. You said you were going to restart Lulu on treatment again. Did she go off the treatment? Why? Night......

[Trese]

Well...it has been awhile since I have posted but all is well. After many long talks with my vet, we have decided NOT to do the stim test and just to keep an eye on Bondo. Today he had a blood panel done, as well, as a cortisal test. If all goes well, another blood test will be done in 3 months. I do realize that the stim is important and it would set a baseline but Bondo is doing so well the vet does not think it is necessary...... After reading all of your posts I really do hope this is the right direction. I will keep all of you posted..... Thanks, again, for being there for me during this time. Night and sweet dreams

[lulusmom]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but I am dumbstruck by your vet's ignorance and his continued resistance to perform the necessary acth stimulation test to accurately access cortisol levels. To do so is not in Bondo's best interest as it is neither safe nor an effective way to manage treatment.

Have you spoken to Dr. Moore at VCA? If not, I highly recommend that you do. Please call him and tell him that your vet is doing blood chemistries in lieu of acth stimulations tests and that he is telling you that you don't need an acth stimulation test as long as you keep an eye on Bondo. Please let us know what Dr. Moore has to say.

[Skye]

I am by all means not meaning to speak out of line and very well likely dont know what i am talking about.....but I thought the VCA doctors and such were not actually doctors? interns though. I cant remember exactly how it is was explained to me.....so again i am sincerely NOT meaning to speak out of line....but I remember something distinctively be said about VCAs and treatment.

[Skye]

i tried to find what i had learned and can not. But i did relook up the one closest to me and it sounds like a fully staffed specialty hospital. if i locate what ever it was i will pass it along. I am likely way off base of it being anything negative, and certainly dont want to spread false word.

[molly muffin]

Well, that is interesting. I've never heard of Not checking their cortisol levels to see how they are responding to the medication. What is the reasoning behind that other than he looks to be doing good? Medically I mean. Curious.
And btw, I'm very glad that he seems to be doing so well.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening to all.
It has been a while since I have posted but all is well. Bondo is doing great on the Trilo. (30 mg). The only thing that is, still, somewhat bad is the calicum sores he has. They scab over and they are gone ...just to re appear somewhere else on him. His appiete is good, no accidents in the house and is quite playful in the mornings.

As far as his testing goes, my vet called Dr. Moore (VCA) and they both agreed the ACTH would not be necessary unless I insisted on it. Textbooks say to do it but in Bondo's case my vet says just to keep an eye on him and if anything looks different to call him. Our next blood work will be done in March. I hope this is the right thing to do but looking at Bondo everyday seems to give me the right answer. Sure hope so. Night all.

[labblab]

I am so glad that Bondo is generally doing well, but I am dumbfounded that Dr. Moore would agree that ACTH monitoring is unnecessary, especially for a dog suffering from calcinosis cutis. If this condition gets out of hand, it can worsen and spread both quickly and dramatically so as to totally destroy a dog's quality of life. We have seen that happen here, and it is terrible for both the dog and the parent. If Bondo is still getting new sores, he may benefit from a lower cortisol level in order to gain greater control of the problem. And the only way in which to know whether this is safe and advisable is by performing an ACTH stim test. I remain mystified by your vet's reluctance to test, and I am doubly mystified by Dr. Moore's agreement. I just don't know what else to say.

Marianne

[frijole]

Hello from me as well. I just want to reinforce what Marianne has said. I am shocked at your vet's approach and concerned. It would be like treating a diabetic and not testing to see if treatment is working. Kim

[lulusmom]

I am completely shocked that Dr. Moore would agree with your vet, so shocked that I am thinking that my admiration and respect for Dr. Moore all these years was completely unmerited. No matter how I look at this situation, regardless of what my own internal medicine specialist says, there is no way a cushdog, much less one with calcinosis cutis, should not be closely monitored by way of recommended acth stimulation tests....and to leave that decision to the pet owner is complete lunacy.

In my experienced and educated layperson's opinion, any vet that says that the required acth stimulation tests aren't necessary unless a pet owner insists, has no business treating a cushingoid dog and that includes Dr. Moore. That is a dangerous approach and most certainly not in the best interest of the dog or the pet owner. It is simply not okay to disregard protocol that was established to safeguard the welfare of the dog while establishing an effective dose.

You are very fortunate that Bondo is seemingly doing well because given the fly by the seat of your pants treatment your vet has provided thus far, it could have gone very badly for Bondo...and it still could. Our mantra here is to never place blind faith in a vet and educate yourself so you don't have to. I highly recommend that you educate yourself so that you can be the best advocate you can for Bondo. There is lots of reference material in our Helpful Resources section on the disease and Vetoryl (Trilostane)., You are Bondo's only voice and in my opinion, if your vet is waiting for you to insist on an acth stim test, you need to speak for Bondo and insist on one. If your boy has active calcinosis cutis, there is absolutely no way your vet should have put off a stim test until March. :mad:

Glynda

[lulusmom]

I've had a few hours to mull this over in my head and I've looked back at Dr. Moore's proactive and ethical approach to my two cushdogs' treatment. Dr. Moore is the Director of Internal Medicine for VCA All Care and very well respected. My first dog was diagnosed there and my second dog started treating there shortly after diagnosis. At no time did Dr. Moore, or any of his staff, ignore proper protocol as your vet has done. As a matter of fact, it was almost a year before I was given the okay to extend the stim tests to every six months.....and neither of my dog had active calcinosis cutis like Bondo.

Our primary concern here is our precious pups and we place their welfare above a vet's certification and most certainly above ego. We frown upon vet bashing on the forum; however, when a vet is so blatantly ignorant so as to place a dog at risk, you have to call a spade a spade. Based solely on the information you have provided, the only conclusion I can come to is that your vet is completely incompetent and a danger to any dog with cushing's. Honestly, I know Dr. Moore and he would never be that wreckless with the welfare of a dog nor that ignorant to think a petowner should dictate when an acth stimulation test is done. That is simply absurd and if your vet told you that Dr. Moore agreed with his woeful standard of care, I wouldn't believe him for one minute.....and neither should you.

There is a very easy way to insure that your vet is acting in Bondo's best interest and telling you the truth. Simply call Dr. Moore and explain to him that Bondo has chronic calcinosis cutis that is not resolving with treatment. Tell him that you started treatment seven weeks ago and that neither you or your vet have any idea if Bondo's cortisol is being adequately controlled because he has never had the recommended acth stimulation tests since starting treatment. Be sure to tell him that Bondo hasn't had those acth stim tests because your vet thinks it's okay to forget about them unless you insist on them. He may ask you to come in so he can check Bondo's calcinosis cutis and if he does, I heartily recommend that you do exactly that.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your update. In the meantime, I'm hoping that Bondo continues to do well and the calcinosis cutis can be remedied. It's a bugger of a problem to get under control and requires a lot of patience.

Glynda

[apollo6]

Dear Tersa
Not sure if I have posted on your thread before. I am Angel Apollo's mom. My Apollo , was almost 14 when he died. He started on Trilostane when he was almost 11, he weighed 10lbs. How much a dog weighs is very important as to dosage. Also I agree with everyone else. It is very important to monitor the cortisol level, it can go either way too low if the dosage is high which is serious also. as to the skin issues they should start clearing up with a few months if not, the immune system maybe compromised. Cushing Dogs have a weak immune system,so it is even harder for them to fight infections, etc. You should have had an ultrasound to see if it is pituitary or adrenal, or a symetric(forgot the spelling) hormone based involving the sex hormones. a full blood panel to see if other organs have elevated readings-the kidney,liver,thyroid. and the ACHT stim test to see if the cortisol level is elevated. there is an acceptable range the cortisol should be in can find on Trilostane,DEchra website as to right dosage of Trilostane. Hope this helps. We have the knowledge and experience with this disease. we are not vets but our experience can guide you.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo.

[Trese]

Thank you all for your advice and words. Bondo has had an ultra sound done at VCA hospital.. He started on the Trilo on Oct. 31st and has had several blood panels done and two "resting cortisal" tests done. His last numbers for the "resting cortisal" were 4.5 and that range is 1.0 - 5.0. My vet has explained to me that with the blood panel and the resting cortisal done that would be all that is needed. He told me his Calcinosis Cutis may take months to go away if even then.

Because all of you have traveled this road before me I tend to believe you so now what do I do???? We leave in the morning for 3 weeks.....so we will not be near our vet. I am sick to my stomach because all I really want is Bondo to have the best treatment.

[molly muffin]

Hi,

Since you are leaving, you make sure you have a copy of his medical tests in a folder and take it with you. Just because it is better to have it than not. Then you keep an eye on him and make sure that he continues as he has been. Then when you get back, you tell the vet that you would like to have an ACTH done to make sure of where his levels are really at because it will make you feel more assure that you are on the right track. By this time Bondo will have been on Vetroyl for about 10 weeks. If anything starts to look wonky while you are away, and you know all the things to watch for, diarrhea, not eating, too lethargic, then you take him to an Vet ER and get an ACTH done. If not, wait till you get back.

Normal protocol from Dechra would have an ACTH at 12 - 14 days and then at 30 days if everything is normal. So normally, 2 ACTH tests in 4 weeks. After which is things are going okay, then you'd space the tests out for longer intervals. I think at the outside at 10 weeks, even if he is doing fine, you will want to check that out just to be sure. Within the first 30 days cortisol can continue to drop, that is why the tests are recommended.

It doesn't Sound like Bondo has gone too low, so your vacation away should be okay. I assume you are taking Bondo with you? Now stop feeling sick to your stomach, go back, get everything together and just keep an eye on Bondo as I'm sure you have been doing this entire time. :)

Oh one other thing. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Trese, I think Sharlene has given you some great advice. Take your vacation as planned, have a great holiday, and then you can pursue additional testing when you get back. Since Bondo's most recent resting cortisol level was 4.5, the risk of him going too low seems unlikely. Instead, it is the reverse -- it is more likely that his cortisol level is not being controlled adequately right now.

I'm sure you have a million things to do tonight, so you can leave this until you return home. But here's some additional information for you to have on hand when you get back. That "resting cortisol" range of approx. 1-5 (or 2-6 for some labs) is the laboratory "norm" that is given for a dog who does not have Cushing's. Historically, the baseline cortisol reading has not had significance for monitoring a dog being treated with trilostane. However, a researcher at Texas A & M who is also a consultant to Dechra, Dr. Audrey Cook, has recently performed a study aimed at investigating whether or not baseline cortisols may have predictive value in assessing whether a dog is being overdosed or underdosed on trilostane. Dr. Cook freely admits that more research is necessary to decide the true clinical significance of this study, but her initial findings suggest that baseline cortisols between 1.3 and 2.9 were associated with good cortisol control for the dogs she tested. She recommended full ACTH tests for dogs with baseline cortisols outside that range in order to insure that their post-ACTH results fell within parameters that were safe and effective. Here's a link to Dr. Cook's study:

Evaluation of the use of baseline cortisol concentration as a monitoring tool for dogs receiving trilostane as a treatment for hyperadrenocorticism (http://www.2ndchance.info/cushings-monitorcortisollevel.pdf)

As I say, this is new research, so if your vet is legitimately trying to rely on Bondo's baseline cortisol as an indicator of appropriate dosing, this would be the most current guide. And as you will see, Bondo's baseline cortisol of 4.5 places him above Dr. Cook's "acceptable" range and within the category of dogs requiring a full ACTH stimulation test in order to assess whether their adrenal function is being controlled adequately.

Since Bondo has already been seen at VCA, if he were my dog, when I got home from vacation I'd request a consultation with Dr. Moore just as Glynda has suggested. I think you're "good to go" on your holiday without worrying about Bondo crashing. But I'm very doubtful that he's receiving the correct dose of trilostane for appropriate long-term control of his disease. For reasons that I truly don't understand, it sounds as though your vet is giving you the run-around. In honesty, I would not trust him to perform a full ACTH test at this point since he has been so inexplicably resistant to the need for it. I would prefer to have the testing done at VCA.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

I know you are on on vacation and hope you are having a good time.

Merry Christmas.
Have a safe and wonderful holiday.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Hi!! Are you guys back from vacation yet? If so how is Bondo doing?
Just checking in on you. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Hello everyone.
I have not posted for awhile but all is well. I realize that most of you really recomenned the ACTH test but I have not had the test for my little Bondo. He is doing SO WELL that I cannot seem to justify it. I give him 30mg of Trilo each morning. No drinking tons of water, no excess urination. Every morning he is like a puppy, running around, playing with his squeeky toys, etc.

His Cutis (sores) are not as bad as they used to be. They are, still, there but I have been giving him a bath with medicated shampoo (from vet) and his coat is really looking so much better.

I have read and read everything about this dreaded disease and I do know that most vets do the ACTH test (especially if other medical things are wrong) but the way Bondo is right now I don't think that the test results would sway me for doing exactly what I am doing right now. Keep him on the 30 mg of Trilo and watch him for any side effects, etc. I do have a bottle of Predisone pills on hand if needed. I keep a journal and so far, the entries are "doing great" on all of the days.

All of you have been so kind with your thoughts and words....I don't want you to think that I have not taken your advice about the ACTH test seriously but I don't think at this time it would serve a purpose. If I did have Bondo tested and they said, drop the dosage or up the dosage and he got worse I would never forgive myself. He just seems to be doing so well, I don't want to change anything. I hope all of you understand.

[molly muffin]

Hi! Remember that you do know Bondo better than anyone, so assume that if something came up, then you'd have him in for the ACTH complete test to find out what the Post number is.
Glad that the symptoms are controlled and he is a happy guy. It is of course always your decision to make. We do of course know that. :)
You do know that we are all pretty much constant worry warts here right?!!! LOL
I'm so glad that you posted and I hope you had good holidays.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Hi Sharlene and little Molly Muffin.
Thank you SO much for your post. I did not want anyone thinking that I did not value all of your opinions. In March, Bondo will have another full blood panel as well as a "resting cortisol" blood test.

OK...vacation Well, on the 26th of December I had to take Husband into ER as he could not breathe. Everything checked out A-OK but the doctor told us to get out of the high elevation (8900 ft) so home we came. We leave on Thursday to try it again. He, actually, works at a Ski area. We will be up at the mountain for 5 days this time. Bondo loves the snow and sleeping up on the couch under all of his warm blankets. It has been -2. Yikes. Ok, off to bed and Sweet Dreams to you.

[molly muffin]

Oh gosh that is scary with your husband. Glad he is okay. They think he'll be alright to go back up to the mountain? I do hope so.
Awww, I bet Bondo is just adorable all snuggled up on the couch with the snow and cold outside. (I sort of enjoy that feeling myself) LOL

Good luck in the higher elevations. Check in when you get back and let us know all is well!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Greetings from a very chilly California this morning............

Just a quick note to let all of you know everything is just fine. Other than husband in a soft cast on his foot as he has some inflamed tendons. BONDO is doing great. He is, still, on the Trilo (30 mg.). He wieghs 22 lbs. His Cutis is beginning to clear up. He has some spots but not like before. He had a little loose stool for a few days and I was worried but that cleared up. I had changed the brand of minute brown rice I feed him so I went back to the old brand.

I will take him in again to the vet around the 1st of March where he will have the "resting cortisol" test as well as a full blood panel.

In the morning he is like a little puppy, jumping all around, playing with his toys and driving my husband crazy as he tries to get some work done on the computer. Bondo has to have his breakfast at about 8:00, wanders outside for awhile and then jumps up into the recliner and takes his morning nap. As I type this, he is outside barking like crazy at the 3 new dogs next store.

I am so blessed this dreadful disease is at bay for now. I really do not want it to rear its ugly head.

But, for now, my little Bondo is full of life and seems very happy.

Trese.

[addy]

Trese, what a wonderful update!

[molly muffin]

Trese! What a wonderful update. Minus hubs foot of course. That just sounds terribly painful. Bondo on the other hand, is just adorable as usual. :)
How great that his skin is clearing up and he is feeling playful.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening......
Well, lots of good news. Bondo is doing great. He is, still, on the 30 mg. of Trilo each morning. He bounces around every morning (ah...if only I had that much energy) wakes me up each morning at exactly 7:17 AM and wants to eat. After eating, he will explore the front and back yard and then settle in for his morning nap. Mind you, he has been up with my husband since 6:00 AM.

Speaking of husband, foot is out of soft cast so we will see how that goes.

AND now back to Bondo, I have started giving him about 1/4 teaspoon every night of coconut oil. They say it is good for a dog's coat. He has the flaky skin just a litle bit. Has anyone one else tried the oil?

Anyway, a very HAPPY VALENTINE's DAY to each and every one of you.

[molly muffin]

Yay for Bondo and for hubby! :)

Isn't great when they bounce around like that in the mornings :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

He wakes you up at 7.17am every morning???? Now that is spooky :D:D Glad to hear he is doing so well!

[molly muffin]

I forgot to ask, how did things go up on the mountain this time?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

Great to hear the news! Coconut oil can give a bit of yucky stools so, start with a small amount to see how it goes.

Keep up the good work!!!

[Trese]

It is lightly snowing here . We are back up at Mammoth Mountain and husband is doing well... dog is doing well and I have a cold.

Bonds sits in front of the heater or we have a heating pad with a blanket on it and he really likes it in this cold weather.

As far as the coconut oil goes I only give him a fourth of a teaspoon in his dog food at night he seems to be tolerating it very well. He still does drink quite a bit of water but no accidents in the house. He is such a good boy and I tell him that all the time... We see the vet again for blood work in March.:)

[molly muffin]

Well, heating pad makes me feel better some days in cold weather too. I'm right there with Bondo.
So glad your husband is doing well while being on the mountain. Yay for that. Him and Bondo, they sure keep you busy!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Greetings.
Just wanted to update all of you on my little Bondo.....He is doing great. He is on the 30 mg. of Trilo each morning and I started giving him about 1/4 t. of Coconut oil in the evening. His cutis is under control with just a few spots every once in awhile. His only lasting hair probelm is that most of his hair on his tail fell out and has not returned.

On Friday morning we go in to have his blood panel done as well as his resting cortisol. I will let you know those results.

Hope all your little puppies are doing better and we are all keeping this Cushings under control as best we can.

Night to all.

[molly muffin]

Hi, great news about Bondo. Don't forget to post the lab results here too!!! :)
Hair and muscle weakness are two of the last things that clear up, if they do, with cushings it seems. Those tails are just really hard to get a good regrowth going on.
Take care and hope you and your hubby are doing great too!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Greetings everyone.
I wanted to give everyone an update on my little Bondo. He is doing sooooo good. Bondo is on the Trilo 30 mg ...once a day in the morning. I wrap the pill in a little piece of chicken to make sure he swallows the pill.

He had his "resting cortisal" and blood panel done and the doctor said he looked very good. He is right "in range" with the cortisal. So much of his hair has grown back. His poor little tail looks a little ragged. The hair is not growing back so fast there. Bondo has tons of energy in the mornings but naps alot during the day. He will be 12 in August.

Bondo has been on the Trilo for 5 months now and I am very happy making that decision to put him on that medicine.....the vet says he does not have to see him for 6 months unless something changes. I take one day at a time so thankful to God I have the little rascal with me, still. Bondo does not have any other serious health issues at this time.

Night to all.

[molly muffin]

So glad to hear that Bondo continues to do good. Lovely to hear that.
Take care of yourself and thanks stopping in and letting us know how things are going still.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

We would really love to see the resting cortisol number and although Bondo is doing so well on the Trilostane I think 6 months is too long for another ACTH stim test. According to Dechra, when a dog is stabilized with treatment, an ACTH stim test should be performed every 3 months. Please do keep us updated and I am so happy to hear that Bondo is doing so well.

[Trese]

Good Morning everyone.

Just wanted to connect with everyone and I hope you all are doing well and enjoying this beautiful Spring weather.

I wanted to post Bondo's test results before we leave for Utah.
His resting cortisol number is 1.1 with the range 1.0-5.0. His hair/coat looks great except for his little tail. Hair is slow to grow back there, they say. He has one spot he licks at just a bit by his tail but the Vet says probably scar tissue from the removal of his anal glands a few years back.

On his blood panel the only other number that were not in range were:
ALT (SGPT) 152 the range being 12-118
ALK PHOSPHATASE 1878 range being 5-131

All of the other numbers were fine. Just for the record I decided not to do the ACTM test and just have the blood work done,. Bondo does not have any other health issues at this time and the Trilo 30mg seems to be working just fine. His next blood work will be done in 6 months.

[Harley PoMMom]

Since the baseline of 1,1 ug/dl is low a full ACTH stimulation test should be done. Here are excerpts from an article written by Dr. Audrey Cook, who is a featured speaker for Dechra (the makers of Vetoryl).


In addition, a baseline cortisol concentration ≥ 1.3 μg/dL could reliably exclude the possibility of an overdose of trilostane in an ill patient or when a patient is reevaluated following a reduction in the dose of trilostane...

For those dogs with baseline cortisol concentrations outside the de- fined target range, an ACTH stimulation test may still be necessary before appropriate adjustments in the dose of trilostane are made.

Glad Bondo is doing so well. :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[molly muffin]

Hi Trese,

Glad to hear that Bondo is doing fine still. Always love to get good news around here.
Oh a trip to Utah. Make sure that you take Bondo's medical records with you. I assume he is going to? if not then make sure that whomever keeps him has those. Just because that baseline is pretty low and we know that cortisol can continue to drop, we've now had members whose dogs have dropped after many months on the same dose. (last one was on a dose of 30mg) so keep an eye on him and if he starts to get lethargic, vomit, not eat, or diarrhea, then no option but to get him in for a complete stim. You don't want to go into a crisis unexpectedly. I can't remember if you ever had any prednisone on hand for a rescue dose if that happened or not.
Have a good trip!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Thank you all for always posting so quickly. If I have not said it before......all of you are amazing with so much caring in your hearts.

OK...yes, I have all of Bondo's test results, blood work etc with me as well, as a bottle of the Pred pills just in case his cortisol goes too low. Anytime we leave town, I have all of it in a box which goes with me.

I told Bondo he needs to pack...ya think he does. NOPE. He just looks up at me and says. you always do it for me. The love I feel for my little guy scares me sometimes. Such a huge part of my life. He loves going in the motorhome with all of new smells in the campgrounds, etc.

Regarding the low 1.1 count of cortisol I wonder if it makes a difference on when the blood is drawn and when the last dosage of Trilo was given??? Anyone know. I gave him his pill at 9:00 and went into the vet as 12 noon.

Ok, have to finish packing but I will keep you posted. nighty night

[infoviewer]

Hi Trese: I have not posted before. I cannot believe how similar our stories are. My CoCo will be 12 in September. He is on 20 mg of Vetoryl. We travel in a motor home. My husband has prostate cancer. Had radiation treatments in 2004 and has done well. He also has breathing problems. CoCo is also doing well. He has lost hair on his head and back and the hair has not grown back where he was shaved for an ultrasound. He also has hypothyroidism. Has 4 calcium deposits on his tail, but he has not noticed them at all. Your doxie seems to be doing so well. CoCo is due for another ACTH. I am wondering if he would do better on a little higher dose of Vetoryl. He still cannot jump like before, which is probably a blessing. CoCo only weighs between 11 and 12 pounds. I hope you have a wonderful trip. Take care. JoAnne

[Trese]

Hi JoAnne.
Just read your post as we have been traveling....getting ready for the summer at our home, etc.
Hope your little Coco is doing well. Yes, we seem to run somewhat parrell lives. Small world, isn't it?

Update on Bondo. He did so well on our trip to Moab. He LOVES all the new smells in all of the campgrounds we stayed in along the way. I am a little concerned about a few things and I have a Vet appointment in the morning. He is on the 30 mg of Trilo and has been doing so GOOD but about 3 weeks ago he started losing his hair again. One spot is on his back and I was petting him and a big clump of hair fell out. A few more of the cutis calitinos (sic) sores on his belly and one front paw. His thirst is very high again, also. No accidents in the house but we are very good about making sure he goes outside. We, also, have a doggy dog so he is free to go in and out when he wants to.

I was wondering if anyone gives their furry child a dosage in the morning and evening????? I will post results I get from the Vet tomorrow. Bondo has been on the Trilo for 7 1/2 months.

Thanks for listening........

[molly muffin]

Hi Trese,

Yes, sometimes it works better if they do morning and evening dosage. You split the dose, instead of one 30mg for instance, you would give 15/15. However, having said that, it is awhile since you have had a regular ACTH test with both pre and post and it sounds like his post number has risen causing the cc symptoms and the loss of hair to come back. I would have a complete ACTH test done to see what that post number is as that is the one that is important in this case.
Glad that you have been having a good time. My mom and dad traveled by motor home for years and loved it. They ended up doing it full time till it got to where they couldn't any longer.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Well, the "little money pit" is asleep right now on the floor near the swamp cooler. We will get some really hot weather this weekend so we are heading up to Mammoth where it should be cooler. Ok, the vet did the complete blood panel and all is well. With Cushings he says other organs are sometimes affected and it is good to keep an eye on things. Bondo's resting cortisol was 4.5 with a range of 1.0 - 5.0. 3 months ago it was 1.1.

Other tests were done as Bondo was licking near his tail. Yep. he has a yeast infection so home I went with a salve and antiboctics (oral). He will go back in to get his urine tested in about a week to see if the infection has cleared up. Vet says the excess thirst he was having might be due to yeast infection. Bondo has been on meds for about a week and no more thirst. Vet does not want to raise his Trilo unless he really has to and I agree. Bondo weighs 20 lbs and we are on a 30mg. a day. No other Cutis Cal sores have appeared. He will be 12 years old in August so I take one day at a time. He , still, runs and greets us at the door and loves to eat.

Wishing all of you a very happy, not too hot and safe 4th of July. God Bless our troops who protect us.

[labblab]

Hi again, Trese.

It is so good to hear back from you and to read your update. I am sorry, though, that Bondo had a rebound in some of his Cushing's symptoms earlier in June, especially the calcinosis cutis. As we've discussed before, this is a condition that has the potential to really blow up quickly and if so, can really raise havoc with a dog's quality of life and become very difficult to contain. Dogs with elevated cortisol are also more vulnerable to a range of infections.

I know we've had the following conversation many times. But under these circumstances, I feel as though I really need to repeat a reply that I first posted during the winter. I still do not understand why your vet chooses not to perform a full ACTH monitoring test on Bondo since this is the only way to accurately assess whether or not he needs an increase in his trilostane dose. Now if both you and your vet have reasons why you do not want to increase the trilostane dose even in the event that his cortisol is too high, then it's true that there is no point in ACTH testing. But since you are indeed treating Bondo with trilostane, I would think you would want to be giving him the dose that offers proper control of his cortisol. Is there some reason why that is not the case?


That "resting cortisol" range of approx. 1-5 (or 2-6 for some labs) is the laboratory "norm" that is given for a dog who does not have Cushing's. Historically, the baseline cortisol reading has not had significance for monitoring a dog being treated with trilostane. However, a researcher at Texas A & M who is also a consultant to Dechra, Dr. Audrey Cook, has recently performed a study aimed at investigating whether or not baseline cortisols may have predictive value in assessing whether a dog is being overdosed or underdosed on trilostane. Dr. Cook freely admits that more research is necessary to decide the true clinical significance of this study, but her initial findings suggest that baseline cortisols between 1.3 and 2.9 were associated with good cortisol control for the dogs she tested. She recommended full ACTH tests for dogs with baseline cortisols outside that range in order to insure that their post-ACTH results fell within parameters that were safe and effective. Here's a link to Dr. Cook's study:

Evaluation of the use of baseline cortisol concentration as a monitoring tool for dogs receiving trilostane as a treatment for hyperadrenocorticism (http://www.2ndchance.info/cushings-monitorcortisollevel.pdf)

As I say, this is new research, so if your vet is legitimately trying to rely on Bondo's baseline cortisol as an indicator of appropriate dosing, this would be the most current guide. And as you will see, Bondo's baseline cortisol of 4.5 places him above Dr. Cook's "acceptable" range and within the category of dogs requiring a full ACTH stimulation test in order to assess whether their adrenal function is being controlled adequately.

Marianne
Based on this most recent baseline cortisol, Bondo again is exhibiting a level that places him above Dr. Cook's "acceptable" range for a dog being treated with trilostane. So we really can't have any confidence right now that this is the correct trilostane dose for him. Given his symptom rebound, the best guess is that he needs an increase. But he needs to have a full ACTH test to know for sure.

I know you must feel as though I keep repeating myself over and over again (and that's because I am :o). And I do not want anything I say to keep you from returning and updating us because we are always anxious to know how you guys are doing. But in clear conscience, I feel as though I have to continue to comment on Bondo's situation and the reasons why I'm so hopeful that someday your vet will evaluate Bondo's status using standard testing protocol.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Hi, glad to hear that you discovered what the problem has been with the licking. (the yeast infection) You can bet if his resting cortisol has risen to 5.4 from 1.1 then his reserve (post number) is quite a bit higher and that could cause the cc to get potentially worse. Keep an eye if the drinking and peeing start to get out of wack again, or the cc starts to get worse, that is a clear sign that his cortisol has slipped out of control, which can happen.
It's sweltering here too right now. Mammoth I am sure will be cooler.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Happy Summer to all.
Well, this is Bondo's birthday month. On August 12th he will be 12 years old. He is doing fine. The (Calcut) has come back but no excess panting, drinking of the water or peeing. No excess hunger, either. You know, his pattern changes. In the morning he is like a puppy, running around, barking at me to feed him his breakfast then as soon as he eats he sleeps which is most of the day.

When I say, "Let's go outside" he will gladly get up and go outside to survey his kingdom. No accidents in the house.

He is on the Trilo 30 mg and I know alot of you are concerned that I should have an ACTH test but I am going with my heart and I do the blood work every 4-6 months with a test of his cortisol. I just hate to load his system up of more meds which I know may create other problems that he does not have now. However, I do value your concerns and true interest in Bondo's well being. All of you are so caring. Thank you.

[Budsters Mom]

Happy 12th birthday Bondo! I am glad that he's doing so well. Love the puppy like antics in the mornings!:D

[Squirt's Mom]

Happy 12th Birthday, Bondo!

[molly muffin]

Happy Birthday Bondo!!!!! Still cute as can be!! :)

Glad to hear from you Trese and that things are going well. He sounds like he is doing fine. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Happy 12th Birthday, Bondo!

[Simba's Mom]

Happy Birthday Bondo!!!

[doxiesrock912]

Happy Birthday Bondo <3 <3 <3

[Trese]

No real reason to post tonight......just to let everyone know that all dogs get older and slow down (no matter what). I watch my little Bondo asleep up in our bed. He does tend to sleep sideways taking alot of the bed. (smile) As I look at him I realize I have so much love for the little guy and yet, I know, at 12 years old the time is getting closer that he will not be with us and my heart hurts. AND yet, I realize that is just the way life is and I look back on how much joy he has given us and, hopefully, will continue to do so for many years to come. I am not sure why dogs get to all of us so much. Maybe it is their eyes, or no matter how long we must be away from them they are SO GLAD to see us or is it when they just want you to pet them and keep nudging your hand with their little wet black nose.

Sweet Dreams to you all.

I have to go move the little guy over so I can have just some of the covers.

[Trese]

PS. Bondo says THANK YOU for all of his birthday wishes

[Trish]

Well here is another one! Happy Number 12 Bondo!!! xxxxx

[Robert]

And another big happy birthday. And the post you wrote is exactly how I feel about my old 14 year old malt tommy.....dreading the day but he has given me so much more than I have given him. He has been a great dog and aren't they all

[doxiesrock912]

Our animal family members give us unconditional love always.
How can we not respond positively to that? <3

Daisy also turns sideways. She's a dachshund, so sideways takes up A LOT of room.

[goldengirl88]

Belated Happy Birthday from Tipper and I too. Hope you enjoyed your day!!

[Trese]

Good Morning to all.

Well, we are off for another adventure with little Bondo. The motorhome is all packed and yet....Bondo has not packed any of his things or has he helped us get ready. ha ha.
He is doing well. His Cutis Cal is on his belly and it seems where his body is warm but they do not seem to bother him. He is very bouncy in the morning before breakfast and then seems to sleep alot during the day. His favorite spot is up on the couch next to his Daddy watching TV. We will be camping in many campgrounds and he LOVES all the different smells so I will keep you posted on how he does. He is, still, on the Trilo 30 mg. once a day. On October 31st, it will be one year since he has started this med. No adverse recaction. Hope all of you and your little woofies are doing well. Just remember with this Cushings...it is one day at a time.

[Trese]

I forgot to add one thing.....I found the best way to get the Trilo pill down is to take a small piece of Velveeta Cheese and press the pill into the cheese and put it in his food. Works great and then I am sure Bondo has taken the pill.

[spdd]

Have a great vacation. So jealous of people with a motorhome.

Bondo will have fun, no doubt. I put my pups pills in cheese, but he won't take it from my hand anymore, so I just drop it in his dish. He hasn't figured it out yet that the pill is there.

[Harley PoMMom]

I forgot to add one thing.....I found the best way to get the Trilo pill down is to take a small piece of Velveeta Cheese and press the pill into the cheese and put it in his food. Works great and then I am sure Bondo has taken the pill.

That is a great idea!!

Have a wonderful time on your adventure!!!

Love and hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Sounds like a grand adventure is planned. I'm sure that you and your husband and Bondo will have a great time. :)
So glad to hear that Bondo continues to do well a year into treatment.
Have fun!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening to all.
A beautiful day here. Bondo is doing so good. He runs around like a puppy in the morning and then after he has taken his pill with breakfast it is like a switch goes off and he curls up and takes his morning nap. He is very interested in carrying the mail up from the gate, etc. It will be exactly one year this Halloween I started him on the Trilo and I am so happy with the results. His cutis cal comes and goes and right now he just has one spot he licks way down on his backside.
Our vacation was great. He has never smelled so many new smells. He would walk for hours if we would let him. Ha, we tire out before he does. He did not seem to tire. Love that dog. Hope everyone is doing well and their furry friends are right beside them.

[Squirt's Mom]

What a great report on Bondo! :cool::cool::cool: Keep up the good work, Mom!

[molly muffin]

Great news that Bondo continues to do so well. That is wonderful. He's such a sweetie. :)
I am sure he really enjoyed the trip and all the enticing smells. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

HAPPY HALLOWEENIE to all.
Well, it has been exactly ONE YEAR today Bondo has been on the Trilo (30 mg) and as of today he is doing so good. Just lately, he seems to have more "pep" in his step. I think it may be that we are having cooler weather now. One habit he has taken on is.....let's get Dad up at 4:00 so I can go outside to take a pee. Ummm. being here at home not too much of a probelm as we can just let him out but we will be starting to go back up to Mammoth for the winter and it is downstairs to go outside and VERY VERY cold and 4:00 am is about the time the Bear makes his rounds at the dumpsters which are right near our place. I should not complain because Bondo has not had any accidents in the house in a very long time. Hope everyone else has more "good" days with their furry pals than "bad". Night and watch out for the goblins this evening.

[goldengirl88]

So glad your baby continues to do well. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Yay Bondo! Happy to hear that he continues to do so well.

Oh dear, early morning pees in the cold and snow and bear timing, doesn't sound pleasant. Do you think he would learn to use peepads for the early AM go?
When do you head back up to Mammoth? Hope all goes well up there this year.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening everyone...

I have not posted for awhile as everything was going along just fine. Around the second week of December, Bondo started acting very confused. He would get back into corners of the house and did not know how to back out. He sleeps most of the day and ...yep, awake most of the night. He wants to go out at 2, 4 and 6 AM. He will just look around..sometimes he will pee, sometimes not. He eats very well and drinks his water.

His back legs are a little wobbly so I will carry him outside if need be. His normal wieght is between 19-22 lbs and tonight he weighed in at 16 lbs.. I can feel his backbone. He has not been as interested in eating his snacks... He is on the 30 mg. of Trilo each day.

I am not sure if these signs are just the wicked ways of Cushings or I wonder if he had a slight stroke or maybe is it a tumor???? We have an appointment with the Vet on Monday morning. I really do not know what he will tell me but if there is anything I can do so Bondo is not as confused I will do it. The other thing is that he likes to be touching my husband or myself at all times. If fact, Bondo really likes to sleep ON my head. Interesting. I am so sad for him and I cry.

[labblab]

I am so sorry that Bondo is having these problems. I cannot remember whether Bondo's original diagnostics pointed to a pituitary tumor. But if so, sadly, it could be the case that the tumor has been enlarging and is now placing damaging pressure elsewhere in his brain. However, another possibility is simply that his adrenal glands are now being oversuppressed by the trilostane and his cortisol and/or aldosterone levels have dropped too low. This can happen at any time, even if a dog has previously been stable on a specific dose of trilostane.

At a minimum, you will want your vet to perform tests of blood chemistries and blood cell counts, and you will also want his cortisol level checked. I know that, historically, your vet has always only checked Bondo's resting cortisol level. But given these very worrisome and even life-threatening issues, the time has really come when you need to have a full ACTH stimulation test performed. I just don't see any way around it. In my opinion, you need to have a full picture of Bondo's cortisol production and reserves. When Bondo is this ill, you need the most complete info possible. Is there any way you can move up the vet appointment? If his cortisol has dropped too low, he can shift into a crisis state quickly, especially if you continue to dose him with the trilostane. Does your vet know how ill he is? The normal advice is to withhold trilo if there is any fear that the cortisol has dropped, and sometimes supplemental prednisone is even necessary.

Please let us know what you find out, OK? And hopefully even sooner than Monday.

Marianne

P.S. Oops, I just looked at your thread title and see that you are suspecting Bondo has an adrenal rather pituitary tumor? I can't remember how that was diagnosed, though, so I will look back through your thread in more detail later today...

[Trese]

Thank you for your concern.....My vet will not be in the office until Monday morning so since I really want to talk with him we will have to wait.

I did not give Bondo his Trilo this morning and he did not seem to be any different. He seems to get into tight places and cannot back out. Like today, he got behind the TV / cabinet it sets on and could not get out. I tried to pull him out and he growled so I have to move this set up by myself. OH MY. but I got him out.

I will let you know what the vet says. I only wish there was some meds he could take so he would not be as confused and wobbly. My heart is heavy ...Good night

[beaglemom3]

aww poor baby I hope you find out what's causing this with Bondo and it is easily fixed. My thoughts are with you

[molly muffin]

Oh dear. I am sorry to hear that Bondo is having some problems. He has done good for so long.

I agree with Marianne about the tests.

I wouldn't give him anything until you know what is going on and causing this confusion and growling, that would be a personality change for Bondo.

Then there may be some options based upon what you find out at the vet on Monday.

Question, are you home or are you up the mountain?

Hang in there!

[Trese]

Hello my friends.
Things are not good here. We did take little Bondo to the Vet. Our Vet did an exam and Bondo has Doggy Dementia. After spending many hours on the Internet I found sometimes Cushings will result in this condition. He will walk to his water and just stand, he will walk into corners and cannot back out. My heart is breaking and I have not stopped crying for days. There really is not a cure for this and it seems everyday he has gotten weaker and weaker. His muscle tone is just not there as there is no more getting up stairs, etc.

Believe it or not....I told the Vet to do the ACTH test....but the Vet said that the Cushings was not the problem. He did do a blood panel and put Bondo on thyroid meds. His cortisol level was fine. It is the Dementia that we have to deal with now.

Bondo is up at 4:00 AM and I feed him and he will sleep until about 5:00/6:00 and then just gets up and paces in circles...sometimes he will stumble and fall. My husband and I take turns with him so one of us can get a full night's sleep. I know the time is near when he will join his brothers and sister at the rainbow bridge but I am the one who will have to make this decision. On one of the websites I read it said....list 5 things your dog used to love to do. If you cannot check off any of them you HAVE to think about your dog and not yourself but this is easier said then done. I guess this is where my Faith will come into play. Thank you for reading this and, hopefully, helping me thru this painful time.

[molly muffin]

Hi Trese,

Did your vet recommend any medications for CCD? I know that Leslie has used Novifit (you can buy on Amazon.com) with good success for her Squirt, who has the same problem. Also Anipryl, is for CCD, and with some dogs has the added benefit of working for cushings too.
I think i would give the Novifit a go and see what happens.
I'm so sorry Trese as you have done such an awesome job with Bondo for so long now.
It's not an easy decision to make and unfortunately only you really know how bad he has gotten or if there is any hope for a rebound.
Does he play at all? Like to cuddle still? Enjoy the vacations still?
Quality of life I think is what you are looking for.

You know we are all, always here for you
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[doxiesrock912]

Trese,

I happened to ask my IMS vet about Anipryl and she said that it is only helpful in 10% of Cushings cases but definitely used in cases of dementia with great success.

[Trese]

Thanks for getting back to me....I am ordering the Novifit today from Amazon. For Bondo's weight of only 16lbs...it will be 100mg I am told. He has lost so much weight his ribs are sticking out and you can see his entire backbone. You know, I have to ask myself....could he have a tumor of some kind???? Bottom line is with his age the treatment would be so hard on him. I will keep you posted. I will look for Leslie on the threads to ask about the Novifit. Last night I was only up at 4:00 AM and again at 6:00. I am a walkie zombie. We actually borrowed a blow up single matterres so I sleep on the floor and if he wakes up he just steps off of the bed. Ah.....love those little guys.

[molly muffin]

Awwww Trese, it is so hard when they get older and we are still trying to give them the best life possible.

I'm not sure when Leslie will be around, she is currently very involved in some issues with her pup family too.
You might try sending her a PM? Not sure if she will get it or not as I don't know how often she checks in right now.

We'll all be here for you though, any time! What a great idea about the blow up mattress, boy that is going to kill your back isn't it? Better than the floor though, so that is a plus and Bondo won't fall off, or if he does, it's not too far.

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[doxiesrock912]

Trese,

Cushings causes the body fat to redistribute so sometimes we can see the ribs but our dogs haven't actually lost weight. If you can manage to weigh Bondo, this will tell you whether or not he's lost weight or not.

[Trese]

Hi Daisy and Sharlene. Thanks for the replies and comments. I gain strengh from this forum.
Ok, the air mattress is really not that bad. It is just so cold on the floor. We are in Mammoth until Monday and it will be 8 degrees this evening. I have been keeping the heater up a few notches. With regard to Bondo's weight. He was about 21-22 lbs and then went down to 19 for quite a while. Just in the past 6 weeks he has lost 3 lbs. He, still, loves to eat tho.
I think I told you all I ordered the Novifit. Has ANYONE had their dog on this med. Hopefully, the vet ok's its use.
You know, I mourn the dog that he was and maybe that is why this is so hard. Bondo cannot help the way he is and I WILL NOT forsake him. I look in his eyes and he trusts me so much so I am sure he will tell me when it is time.

Not sure if I ever mentioned it before but he would always sit/sleep next to my husband but he did not like to cuddle. However, now he wants to be near either one of us 24/7. He will still greet us at the door with the tail wagging.
Again, thanks for all of the posts. T

[molly muffin]

Leslie definitely has had Squirt on this with good results. She stopped for awhile, but then when Squirt started to show symptoms again, she started to use it again.

brrr, yes, down at floor level can get chilly when in those cold temps.

The weight loss is concerning. Did the vet run a full blood panel on Bondo? I wonder what if anything was out of normal range.

Of course you wouldn't forsake Bondo, he's your baby. If he is having dementia issues then it would make sense that he'd want to be near to you or your husband, whom he will safest with.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trese]

Good Evening to all.
Well, things are not looking too good here. It is so so very sad. I cry all of the time....Little Bondo is hanging in there but the time is getting very close. He is eating well and drinking his water when he remembers how to drink his water. The vet tells me he will not get better but each day a little worse and he is right but I just can't seem to let him go. With this behavior...up at 1:00 ..3:00, 6:00 AM wanting to go outside or just pace it has begun to take its toll on me. My husband and I take turns so one of us can get some sleep.
Another trait with this dementia is that Bondo wants to get into very tight spots and he no longer has "reverse" so he tries to turn around and then starts howling. Howling is good as that is the only way I can find him. I have taken his collar off as I think he may get it caught on something. The last few days has been behind the washer/dryer which I had to move out by myself. Another one was he crawled into a box I had blocking a tight spot and could not climb back out. He was outside and got a piece of cactus in his foot. HOWEVER...today he got into my arbor vida...(low growing plant with thick limbs) Well, I got him out but my hands and arms look like I got into a fight with a big lion....lots of bruises and scratches from all of the branches and I think he may have bitten me (he was in a panic mode) My heart just breaks.

I don't mean to sound so down but I realize I am going to be losing my little boy...How do I cope???

[doxiesrock912]

My heart breaks with you.
Everyone handles this differently. We're all here so don't worry about sounding off. It's healthy, most of us have been where you are one time or another, talk to is as you need to because it is healthy to let yourself experience this and not to hold back.

One day at a time, enjoy every minute that you can, and Bondo will let you know. HUGS.

[goldengirl88]

Sorry for you heartache. We all walk the same path here so please let go we all understand and we all do the same. I am praying for you and Bondo. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Trese,

My Squirt has CCD, Doggy Alzheimer's. She is on a SAMe product called Novifit that has been a miracle for her. It is NOT like other SAMe products but I'm not sure all the differences. One is that it is a stable SAMe and can be given with food. Squirt was already on a liquid SAMe and it did NOT have the effect on her mind that the Novifit has had. When she has missed a dose, I can tell it by that night. I can't recommend trying Novifit strongly enough. You do not need a prescription for it, or I don't anyway.

She started a drug called Anipryl (generic is Selegiline) as well and it helps, too.

At night she gets melatonin (3mg) and powdered Passionflower herb (approximately 1/4 tsp) in her supper. These keep her from being restless at night, roaming around, pacing and allow her to rest well.

It is heartbreaking to watch but there are things we can do to help them. When Squirt first started to show signs of this I missed them, attributing them to other things. She started peeing in her sleep, became restless, would stand at the doors or walls staring, a lost look in her eyes. Then she started what I call "the terrors" that lasted for hours every night. First she would be extremely restless, wanting on the bed then off the bed to roam the back on the bed, then down, then roam, then back in the bed.....hour after hour after hour. Then she started acting as if she were absolutely terrified over things I could not see or hear but she seemed to. She would shake horribly, drool, whine, jerk her head around as if in response to something - it was pitiful. BUT within just a few days of starting the Novifit, all this stopped and thankfully has not come back.

Here is a link about the Novifit -

http://www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/novifit-novisame-tablets/behavioral-health

Hope this helps and I am wishing you and Bondo the very best.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

oh Trese, sending you mucho hugs and love. I know this is so hard to get through. Belly rubs for Bondo. He must be so confused and not know what is happening to him.
Did you ever start the Novifit? You mentioned you had ordered it. Leslie just gave you a list of what she is giving Squirt for the same situation, so maybe you can try that combination too.
hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trese]

First of all, I want to thank all of you whom I have never even met...for all of the kind words. I dreaded the day I had to post this message. Bondo is at peace. He has hopefully crossed over the Rainbow Bridge and is running and playing.....no more staring at the walls and getting stuck in tight places.

We really had such a hard time making this decision but we tried the Novifit and there was no change at all. Each day he seemed to be a little more confused. I could not let this lively, funny dog be like that. I had to let him go and it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. He was our little boy and my heart just aches.

We have other dogs we have had to put to sleep but this little guy was the hardest. I have not stopped crying. I wrote this poem about him I would like to share with all of you.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?????
Day after day...night after night
I begged You to take him
In sadness I wept and waited
While he wandered about
Staring into corners
Getting stuck in tight places
So very confused
I watched the gradual decline
Of his once strong and lean body
I saw the emptiness of his eyes
His constant discomfort
I listened to his labored breathing
I felt the weight and warmth of his body
As he lie on my chest
In the big brown reclinder
When the confusion worsened
I sensed his growing weakness
His deep depression
Through sleepless nights
The hours in the early dawn
With both of us watching over him
Wandering around the back yard
In the darkness I cried to you
Over and over I cried
Then yesterday morning, Lord
On a beautiful day
You answered my prayer
You helped us with our decision
Gently he fell deep asleep while in our arms
You blessed him by giving him a life of joy
That he brought into our lives
Thank you, Lord

Yet even while I thank you
I wish I could of kept him
Just one more day

What's wrong with me??????????????

For all of you reading this post....hug your little doggies real tight tonight....Thank you for being there for me.

[molly muffin]

Trese, there are no words for how deeply heartbroken I know you are right now.

Your poem is beautiful and very touching. I know you were so distressed to see how confused and frightened Bondo was becoming. Now he is free, running and playing, no confusion, but always a deep abiding love for his mum and dad.

Sending you love and strength,
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Trese,

Tears are falling as I type. Your poem is beautiful and so touching with its raw honesty. Thank you for sharing your Soul with us.

Yes, today your sweet boy is as he was when a younger dog, strong and full of energy, no fear nor confusion. He was met at the Bridge by all he knew and loved in this life as well as by a host of babies from his family here. Together they will play as they wait for us to join them across the Divide one day. And I firmly believe we will.

Please know we are here for you anytime you wish to talk and please, when you feel up to it, feel free to start a memorial to Bondo in the In Loving Memory section. We would be honored to help celebrate his life through your memories.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Grace and all our Angels at The Bridge


Weep not for me though I am gone, into that gentle night.
Grieve if you will, but not for long, upon my soul's sweet flight.
I am at peace, my soul's at rest; There is no need for tears.
For with your love I was so blessed for all those many years.
There is no pain, I suffer not, the fear now all is gone.
Put now these things out of your thoughts, in your memory I live on.
Remember not my fight for breath, remember not the strife...
Please do not dwell upon my death, but celebrate my life.

[goldengirl88]

Trese:
I am so sorry about the passing of Bondo. There have been many passing the last few months so know that he has company helping him across the bridge and he is free of pain. Blessings
Patti

[drmvz]

My deepest sympathies on Bondos passing. Prayers of strength and peace for you and all those who loved Bondo.
Mike

[apollo6]

dear Tresa
I am so sorry for the lose of your sweet Bono. Prayers are with you and your family. There are no words that can comfort you at this time.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[addy]

I am so sorry to hear of Bondo. I thought your poem was beautiful and thank you for sharing it with us. I hope it helped you find closure. Please stay with us awhile, we are so very good a support.

Big Hugs

[Spiceysmum]

I am sorry to hear that Bondo has passed away. Your poem touched me. I am going through a similar struggle with my dog Brin and hope and pray that I can make the right decision at the right time. My thoughts are with you.
Linda

[Trish]

I am so sorry to read that our well travelled little Bondo is now taking another trip, unfortunately away from you this time, but you are going to catch up with him at a later date! That Bondo had an awesome life, and was such a little joy so no wonder this will hit you hard. Your poem is very special, thank you for sharing. You and hubby take care of each other during this sad time and pop in here if you need to vent or to tell us more stories about Bondo xx

[doxiesrock912]

Trese,

your poem is perfect. I cried as I read it.
Bondo is surely at peace and meeting other dogs that have left before him.

I am grateful that the confusion did not last for a long time as that would've been even more heartbreaking. Rest in peace sweet Bondo.

[maria]

So sorry for your loss, Trese. I have had to put many dogs down and making the decision to do so is agonizing. The weeks and months of running from it but still feeling that decision gnawing at the back of the mind is torturous. Nothing anyone can say will make this any easier for you but let me offer that are all sisters and brothers in this and really feel and know what you are going through.

There is always that one special dog who is the hardest to let go. Sounds like Bondo was that one for you. We take on their pain for them by making that decision to release them from the prison their earthly bodies become.

I ask for God's peace to find you and know that Bondo was loved and had a wonderful life with you. You will be together again. I think it was Billy Graham who said if having a dog in heaven will make you happy, then God will have dogs there for you.

Maria

[Trese]

Words cannot express how much ALL OF YOUR POSTS have meant to me.... Thank you for the bottom of my heart. It will be one week tomorrow and I have cried every day. I just cannot seem to get my life back on track. I am trying really, really hard but I just want him back.....Today my husband took me on a really nice motorcylce ride up thru our local mountains, stopping at a little cafe for lunch but when we got back home....where was my boy??? He would, always, greet us at the door and then we would sit on the front porch and Bondo would explore the front yard. I know it will get better but like my sister told me.....it is all of the "firsts" you have to get thru. The first time coming home from a ride and "no little wagging tail to greet us".

On Wednesday, we leave for Mammoth and it will be another "first" without him. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you again for all of your concern...true concern and feeling.

[molly muffin]

Sending you lots of love. Your sister is right all the first suck. Seconds aren't great either, thirds can still break your heart. Even hundredth can bring a sharp heart pain of love and remembrance. Only love can last so long

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trish]

Hi Trese
Sorry the days and the firsts are so hard for you right now, I hope your trip away brings some happy new memories but I am sure Bondo will be close to your heart. Take Care xx

[Trese]

Good Evening everyone.....
This is our first trip without our little Bondo. AND yep, I have cried everyday but adjusting the best I can. I have very, very supportive friends and they have helped me thru these dark days.
I do not miss the 4:00 AM "let's go outside, Mom" wake ups but I would do it gladly if Bondo was with us still. It has been snowing very hard all day and Bondo LOVED the snow. He would spend hours just walking along in it. Not sure why he liked it but, maybe, new smells.
Each day I have different emotions and I watch the videos I made of him on my IPAD which does help. One day at a time.
Kiss your puppies and hold them tight until they wiggle out of your arms.
Night to all

[Spiceysmum]

Trese,
I know just how you are feeling. My Brin passed away yesterday and for the first time in months I didn't have to get up 2 or 3 times in the night or sleep on the sofa but to me that is normal and it doesn't feel right that I didn't have to do it. I would gladly do it all again if he could be here still. Take care.
Linda

[molly muffin]

Hi Trese,
It is so good to have supportive friends to help you through a tough time like this. I'm glad you do. It is still hard and the first are the hardest. First anything is just rough.
Sending lots of hugs and strength
sharlene and molly muffin

[MBK]

Hi, Trese.

I never "met" you as the past year I have only been here sporadically. I read your post about Bondo tried to get into very small spaces and my heart broke for you. My Alivia was doing the same thing about a week before I had to let her go on February 14th. She was desperate to get in little spaces - behind the television, anywhere. She had to be watched every minute as I was terrified she would hurt herself. It was so heart wrenching. I cried reading your poem. I understand your pain and what you said about the "firsts" is so true. I hope Bondo and Alivia have met and are now free and whole once again.

Sharing your pain.

[Trese]

Dear Linda. You just lost your little Brin....I know how you must be feeling. Your life goes on but inside you are hurting so bad. You do your best to be normal but after Bondo was gone I just wandered around my house feeling lost. I know what you mean about getting up all hours of the night and I agree I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. I will say a special prayer for you this evening.

Dear Mary Beth and Alivia. It would be nice of Alivia and Bondo have met each other and are running and playing. Why do you think they wanted to get into those very tight places? Bondo would get behind something and it seemed he did not have reverse and only wanted to go forward to get out of where he was. Who knew I could move a dryer and the TV that sits on top of a cabinet by myself. You should have seen our house...pillows, blankets, trash cans, cardboard to block any spot he could squeeze into. How old was Alivia? Bondo would of been 13 years old in August. You know, I would read this forum and when someone lost their little doggies...I thought if that happened to me how would I ever cope. Now, I have to and it is just killing me but I know I will survive as you will but when will the tears stop? Thank you for your post to me.

For dear Sharlene and Molly Muffin....you the glue that hold this forum together. Thank you for always listening and all of your kind words.
Good night to all and sweet dreams.

I sleep with one of Bondo's favorite stuffed animals. Her name is Katrina and she is a cat with her nose missing and somewhat floppy looking. Bondo used to drag her around, toss her in the air and then fall fast asleep on her. I bet she misses him, too. You know, they say your heart hurts so much because your little guy/girl is in there wagging their tail very hard because they love and miss you, too

[Trese]

Good Evening to everyone.
Well, it has been almost 7 weeks without my little Bondo. I sure do miss him. I miss him most at night, I think. I can't believe he is not with us anymore. I, still, cry but not as often as I did the first week.

I want to post some pictures of him so he is not forgotten. How do you think they become so much a part of our lives? Hope all is well with everyone.

[doxiesrock912]

They give us unconditional love, regardless of our faults. Hugs.

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry you are missing your baby. These Cushing's dogs are very special, taking all of our waking time to care for their every need. There is a giant void left when they are gone, and all this time left on our hands that was previously used to care for them. My heart goes out to you. Blessings
Patti

[My sweet Ginger]

Hi Trese,
I'm glad you are doing better. I loved reading about your little Bondo and would love to see his pictures. I can still picture him carrying a letter from your mail box for his treat. I thought that was so cute.
My youngest baby Stella (3) goes crazy over our letter carrier and all the mail we get and just chews and tears them all up in seconds that were dropped on the front porch so I'm always afraid she may destroy first class mail.:eek: Take care. Song.

[apollo6]

Dear Tresa
Thank you for your post. I know what you mean about the one and only. The little fur ball that you have that special bond with. And all you want is to have them back. Everything you are doing is what any of us would do and feel because the love was so strong. May your sweet Bondo be playing with my Apollo. Doxie can get into a lot of mischief. I lost apart of me when Apollo died. He was my foundation. Like you I go to bed with his pill and one of his tie shirts over it. I would be up in the middle of the night trying to comfort him,feeling so helpless. But like you, I would take care of him again in a heart beat. I am glad you made a video of Bono to comfort you,as I did.
I am so sorry for the lose of your baby.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[molly muffin]

Hi Trese,

I'm glad you are doing better. It helps having friends and family that can support you through your grief too, which if I remember correctly, you have had. It is great to be able to talk and laugh and cry together with others who miss Bondo too.
Bondo was your guy, your companion, your buddy and your friend. He went everywhere with you and loved every moment of it. How could you not miss that, it is heartbreaking. Bondo was a well loved little guy and a happy one too. They just worm their way into your heart and take up residence.

I've thought of you often and wondered how you are doing. I'm glad that you posted to let us know. Oh yes, definitely we would LOVE to see some pictures of Bondo!!!

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trese]

Good Morning to all.
Well, it has been almost 3 month since Bondo crossed over the Rainbow Bridge and some days are good and some days miss him something awful... I miss him more when we do things that he enjoyed so much. YES we are thinking about getting another little one but just not quite yet. You know, I think back on what could of caused the terrible Cushings and find no answers except I think I would question EVERY med the vet ever wrote a prepscription for. Does the dog really need that??? From the time they are just puppies all the way thru their life. Like alot on the net says..most dogs that have cushings die with it not from it. But having Cushings opens up the dog for your little one to get all sorts of other aliments. OK....done preaching ha ha. My question to anyone out there.... I haveTHYOSYN 0.2 mg expires 4-15 and TRILO VETORYL 30 mg expires 4-16 and NOVIFIT S 0-22 lbs expires 3-16 Would anyone like these????? I do not want just to throw these away as they are still good. They are in their packaging.

Last week I gave away all of the frozen rice/chx/beef food I used to make for Bondo. I just could not do it before. Why do I cry when I post here????

Love to you all

[labblab]

Hi Trese, it is so good to hear from you again, and while you are still in the midst of your own loss, it is so sweet that you want to share Bondo's food and medicine with others. In terms of medications, however, unfortunately it is not legal in the United States to sell or even share prescription medications with other private individuals. However, as you might expect, this question had arisen before and our best suggestion is to check with your vet or local shelters/rescue groups to see whether there are programs in your community that can distribute donated medication to others in need. Here's a link to a thread on our forum where drug donation is discussed in more detail:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119

I am really glad you've come back to us, and hope that you'll keep checking in from time to time. You and Bondo will always be family here.

With warm wishes,
Marianne

[molly muffin]

It is both a blessing and a curse some days to come here after your beloved companion has passed on. The pain is refreshed, but the understand from those who have walked in your shoes, I hope will also help.

Many times the shelters can use the medications themselves, or your vet might know someone who can't afford it that they can use it with. It is always worth it to check out those options.

Hugs to you and belly rubs in heaven to Bondo
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trese]

Well.....so much has happened in the last few weeks. First of all, hope all of you are doing well and your little cushing babies are hanging in there

I miss my little Bondo so much and we have never really been without a dog in over 33 years. On May 18th it was 3 months since Bondo has been gone We told ourselves we would wait until sometime at the end of July to look for a little puppy. We knew we wanted a Daschund and we wanted a male and we thought we would like a short haired red one. We already had a name picked out. Fred the Red. Well....we choose our own destinty but we are not the one in charge.

We have a new little guy. He is a rescue and is about 3 years old and black and white and is NOT a doxie. He is so cute, tho. We have named him Rocket because he runs like the wind. Part whippet..part terrier. He was already neutered and housebroken so that makes me happy. Rocket will never take the place of Bondo but my heart is big and there is always room for the love that a dog gives you.

AND guess what I got thru this post without crying. A good evening to you all

[molly muffin]

Oh Trese!! Sending you great big hugs!
Of course a Rocket doesn't replace a Bondo, as if that was even possible.
You can't have a plan when it comes to companion animals, especially when you are looking at rescues. Hearts don't recognize plans, they only recognize each other. I'm so pleased that you have another companion to share your adventures with.
Feel free to post a picture of your new Rocket. (can I sing Rocket Man????)
hint hint hahahah

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Trese!!!! I am so happy for you, and Bless you for giving Rocket a forever home, he is one lucky boy to have you as his loving Mom and I am sure sweet Bondo appoves and is so proud of you for letting a furbaby back into your heart.

Many huge hugs coming your way, Lori

[pansywags]

Congratulations on your new family member, wishing you and Rocket many happy, healthy years together!

[Trese]

Thank you all for my well wishes for our newest addition to our family. AND yes..you all can sing Rocket Man. (smile) Actually, I call him Rocket Man sometimes along with Rocky, Rock and occasionally a "Bondo" slips out. I guess that mean Bondo must approve.

People say getting another dog does help your pain but what about the memories??? The bad ones (Bondo's last days) will fade and we will only have the happy ones, I am sure.

You know, the one thing that does get me thru is the fact that I know Bondo would not have wanted to go on the way he was and I was strong enough to see that (as painful as it was) and we had to let him go. I used to read the posts about how so many of you were losing your sweet little ones and I thought "how do they do it...how will I function if that happens to Bondo. Well, you just do it. ...one day at a time. Ok, the tears are flowing. Good night to all

[Harley PoMMom]

.
I used to read the posts about how so many of you were losing your sweet little ones and I thought "how do they do it...how will I function if that happens to Bondo. Well, you just do it. ...one day at a time.

Exactly, one day at a time, some days are good and some days are bad. They say time heals all wounds, I don't believe that is so, I still miss my Harley, and Bear too, and sometimes the tears flow, still. It's just now I can better deal with the grief and sadness of losing my dear boys. It can be so difficult though...:(

Many, many hugs to you and Rocket, Lori

[Trese]

The shower.....that is where I cry the most. You know, I usually feel better after that. Does time really heal all wounds...nope. Like my sister told me, it is not the time but want you do with your time.

I think the reason we let our little doggies get into our hearts so deeply is because they love you (no matter what) People are not even capable of that. Almost but not like a dog. My grandma used to tell me thru my teenager years. "It is better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all" A doggy gives you so many years of joy and you give it right back. I believe we are all better people to have those special dogs in our lives. Sweet Dreams to all.

[Trese]

It has been almost 6 months since our Bondo went over the Rainbow Bridge. Hope all of you are doing well and you are enjoying every minute you have with your doggies.

You know, I still miss him so much even tho, I have my new little "rocketman". Rocket is so different than Bondo but the way he looks at me with his big brown eyes it seems he knows he have very special shoes (paws) to fill. Everytime I see a doxie, I have to stop and pet them and just looking at a doxie brings back so many good memories.

Night.

[Squirt's Mom]

Every day is different now, how well I know. What was commonplace is suddenly unfamiliar, peculiar. We just keep putting one foot in front of the other, trying to learn how to maneuver in this strange new world. But one thing is constant - the love Bondo has for you. I am sure he is so very proud of his mom and pleased about his brother.

Keep your chin up and know you are not alone.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Trese! So glad to hear from you. I hope that you are doing well and that the Rocketman has been enjoying your travels. Bondo sure did love and look forward to when it was time to take off again. What great adventures you all had. I know that Rocket will be a joy to introduce to the pleasures to be had in each place you go.

Take care and check in when you can
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin