Lysodren Question (Boston Terrier)

[Mmichele99]

Hi. I am new to k9cushings.com, but I have read the posts for several weeks now and I think it will help me while I help my little Milo. Milo is my 10 year old boston female who was diagnosed with Cushings just last week. We had suspected this for a couple of months now but the Low Dose....test confirmed it last week. I am very confident with my vet and trust he will lead me down the right path. He treats with Trilostene and Lysodren but his choice is Lysodren. He has seen better results with this medicine. Milo has all the common symptoms EXCEPT she has lost weight. Right at 10 lbs since Feb of this year putting her at 30 lbs. She has always been a very stocky boston, but she is very pot bellied right now and I can see her ribs and spine. She is still very active and happy so it makes it so hard for me to start the Lysodren (supposed to do this Friday). My question is has anyone else experienced weight loss with Cushings? Will the Lysodren make Milo lose more weight or will it help her gain? Most everyone says it helped their pups to lose. I will take any advice I can get at this point. Already this year we have had to put our 14 year old lab, Chase to sleep and our 13 year old kitty, Macy. These meds have to work. Please let them work.
....let me add that I initially took Milo to the vet because she had licked all the hair off of her front feet and they were very red and swollen. We treated as allergies for a few weeks and then decided to do a mange scraping. She was positive for mange. This made the vet question why her immune system would be low. He said her liver count was a little elevated, and we pointed in the cushings direction during this time. Other than her little feet being hairless and red her skin and coat look great. Very shiny and thick. The symptoms I notice are excess water (about 8-10 cups per day) along with frequent trips outside (no indoor accidents though)! She poops every chance she gets and it is ALOT! She also eats like it is her last meal. Always looking for food.
Megan

[frijole]

Well the symptoms are all there except it is unusual that your dog has lost that much weight. Lysodren will control the cushings that is causing the hunger and thirst so as a result of that you might see weight loss.

Before you give the first dose of lysodren - please go get all the blood panel results and any other tests done to diagnose. Did you also do an acth test? An ultrasound? The weight loss concerns me. I had a dog that was misdiagnosed with cushings and she was losing weight too. The low dose test can result in false positives if something else is going on. For this reason it'd be nice to see the other test results.

Thanks, Kim

[Mmichele99]

Hi Kim. We have not done an ACTH test or ultrasound, just the low dose test. What was the outcome of your dog that was misdiagnosed? As long as I can remember Milo has been a strong eater so that did not seem out of the ordinary to me. She doesnt show any signs of lethargy like some of the others talk about. I will call the vet tomorrow and see if I can get all the test results. I will post them as soon as I have them.

[frijole]

My dog had a very rare adrenal tumor. On occasion you could see her shaking all over/trembling despite the weather. We learned later that was the tumor being active and it caused high blood pressure but only when it was active so it was very hard to diagnose.

My point is simply that I would want additional testing done to confirm the diagnosis prior to starting lysodren. I am sure they did a blood panel first. Get all the abnormal results and post the ranges for normal so we can see how high or low each value is. I want to see if they tested for hypothyroidism (which has the same symptoms as cushings) and that diabetes is ruled out.

We'll keep an eye out for your results! Remember there is NO rush to treat cushings. So it's ok to wait to make sure you get it right. Kim

[frijole]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

Forgot - this link is helpful for newcomers! Kim

[Mmichele99]

Are you familiar with EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency)? I happened across this when I was looking up symptoms and was convinced this is what Milo had. I am telling you, the poop that comes out of her is unbelievable! I am surprised her body will hold it. You would think we have a mastiff when you come in our yard, and she would eat an entire roll of toilet paper if she could. Has terrible gas all the time. The only symptom that was not there was the "cow manure" poop.

[frijole]

No but maybe someone else here is. I would definitely look into this further. Other illnesses can lead to false positives on the cushings test (LDDS) because if the body is fighting something else it often creates extra cortisol in order to fight - the result is false positives. Excess poop is NOT a sign of cushings ;) Inhaling food (no chewing) and excess water consumption is. But other diseases have the same symptoms so you are better off if you get a total confirmation before starting any meds for cushings.

[Nikki]

I just wanted to pop in and say hi and welcome!!!
Also wanted to add in that my dog lost some weight. Before we knew he had Cushing's disease my mom would always comment on "how skinny his butt is getting" and how he looked so thin compared to her 2 Boston's (In his younger years he was always the biggest out of the three). His healthy weight (when he was 4 or 5) was 25lbs. When he got sick he dropped to 22lbs and now he is down to 17lbs. Keep in mind that my dog probably has a million different problems, so i can't even tell you if the weight loss has anything to do with Cushing's disease!!
But anyways, I just wanted to say hi :)

P.s. Max is also hypothyroid (Usually they get fat when this occurs) So the vet found it odd that he had gotten so skinny, and he said some dogs are just "different".

[Mmichele99]

Hi Nikki. Thanks for letting me know about your experience. Are you using any meds to treat the cushings currently? Has any of the weight come back? I can't imagine milo at 17 lbs. she would literally be skin and bones.

[Mmichele99]

Ok. I am not too sure what I am looking for on these lddst test results but here is what I see. The test was done on 8/31.
Pre Dexamerhesone 3.4
Post 4 hr dex 4.6
Post 8 hr dex 2.4

There are other numbers. I will try and post a pic of the results unless someone can tell me what to look at on here. I also see a note that thyroid levels were a little high. Could be hyperthyroidism.

[Boriss McCall]

Hi! welcome to the group.

I know in people muscle weighs more than fat & cushing's can cause muscle wasting. So, that could be the weight loss? but, I am no expert. :rolleyes:

Hopefully you will get things sorted with your baby soon. I love the BT"s! :D

[frijole]

What you posted are the results from the LDDS test for cushings and you posted those numbers perfectly.

Usually that is on a separate report from other testing. So if other tests were done we need to know what they were and what the results were. The more detail the better and if you have to copy it that is fine.

You mentioned that the thyroid levels were high and could be hyperthyroidism. I googled it and the symptoms ARE similar to cushings (eating and drinking) and it could also explain the weight loss. It is extremely rare but I would not ignore it. I have linked a couple of articles - the first is very general. the second is written by a guy who is a world renown expert in this field.

In short - I would not waste one minute of time buying lysodren or on further testing for cushings right now. I would do additional testing to see if something else is going on. You'll know what to look for once you read the links. Hope this helps. Kim


http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/endocrine/c_dg_hyperthyroidism

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/05/canine-hyperthyroidism-and-heart.html

[Nikki]

I'm treating Max with 30mg of Vetoryl a day. And he is literally skin and bones!!!

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome!

It's very hard trying to figure out when to start medicating for cushings, when to wait, if there is something else going on, etc. First eliminate anything else that might be going on, either in addition to Cushings or other than cushings.

Then based upon how you think they are doing quaility of life, physically, decide about medication.

It's not easy to know any of things and sometimes we just have to go with our instincts of what seems best. The blood work numbers do help though to get a gist of what is going on inside their little bodies.

Hugs,
Sharlene

[Mmichele99]

Nikki, the picture of Max is just heartbreaking. I can see his skin problems and Milo hasnt had anything near that bad. It makes me question the cushings again. I will keep you and Max and all the other sweet pets and their owners in my thoughts and prayers. I know how tough this has been for me and I feel like this is just the beginning of my journey.

[Mmichele99]

I want to thank everyone for the kind welcome and words. I have actually taken off work tomorrow and my goal is to get Milo back to the vet and have them start doing more tests and blood work. I really want to pursue the thyroid test and the EPI test. The symptoms are much like cushings and with all of Milo's stomach issues here lately I feel like we should investigate these paths as well. Please keep the good advice coming and I will keep everyone updated as we progress.

[Mmichele99]

Nikki, have you thought about trying Max on the Lysodren?

[Nikki]

Just so you know, Max has calcinosis cutis. Not all dogs with Cushing's get it (Actually I think most of them don't). The reason we found out Max had Cushing's was that all his fur fell out and his skin was infected and bleeding. Prednisone and antibiotics didn't help and it just kept getting worse. They biopsied a piece of his skin, and found out he had calcinosis cutis which I guess can pretty much guarantee he has cushing's.
So please don't look at Max's pictures and think that will happen to your dog. The worst of his skin problems were from before he even knew he had this disease. Once he stopped getting prednisone and started Vetoryl, his skin improved SO much.

[Nikki]

No, we found out today that Max has a macro tumor. We are treating the brain swelling with prednisone, and keeping him on Vetoryl in hopes that his skin wont get too bad. They said he has maybe a month left to live. Pretty much the prednisone is to keep him comfortable while we cope with the fact that we will lose him, and it is buying us time until we are ready to have him put down :(.

[frijole]

I want to thank everyone for the kind welcome and words. I have actually taken off work tomorrow and my goal is to get Milo back to the vet and have them start doing more tests and blood work. I really want to pursue the thyroid test and the EPI test. The symptoms are much like cushings and with all of Milo's stomach issues here lately I feel like we should investigate these paths as well. Please keep the good advice coming and I will keep everyone updated as we progress.

What a good mom you are. I am relieved you are pursuing the thyroid tests. I know the links I provided were a bit scary but wanted you to be aware and rule out hyperthyroidism before throwing a ton of money on other tests. I personally would have an ultrasound done. Note that you want it done on a high resolution machine and not all vet offices have them. (I had to go to a specialist) Anyway - the ultrasound could see if there are any tumors or other suspect issues. The results are quick and pretty conclusive. Also the vet can see the adrenal glands and they can better determine if cushings is at play or if it is hyperthyroidism or even something else.

Regardless of what the findings this is a great group and we'll help you as best we can ok? We've all been thru our share of issues. There was a time I thought I was studying to be a vet and it can be overwhelming.

One day at a time. Hang in there and good luck tomorrow. Kim

[Mmichele99]

Nikki, I have tears streaming down my face as I read your post about Max. I am so sorry for the news you got today. I will continue to keep Max in my prayers, that he will stay comfortable as long as possible, and that you will know when it is time. If you would have told me 6 months ago that we would have had to put Chase our lab and Macy our kitty down I would have told you there was no way I would make it thru, but the time comes when you know it is the right time and the right thing for them. I think about them and miss them both so much each and every day.

[Mmichele99]

Kim, I am not familiar with ultrasounds. Will they have to put Milo to sleep to do this? That is another concern for me with her age and her short little nose.

[Boriss McCall]

Hi! I too was worried to have Boriss do the Ultrasound. He is almost 9. He did really well. But, I don't think my vet put him all the way under like a surgery type sedation. Just a heavy sedation in order to keep him still. I know every dog is different. Boriss is sensitive to meds. He was pretty exhausted that night after the test. He was feeling good by the next morning.

[frijole]

Kim, I am not familiar with ultrasounds. Will they have to put Milo to sleep to do this? That is another concern for me with her age and her short little nose.

It depends on the dog but normally they don't have to put them to sleep.. read here:
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/abdominal-ultrasound-in-dogs/page1.aspx

[Mitz]

I am very sorry for your recent losses.
I was to start my Mitzi on Lysodren but she suddenly passed away last week. She had a high ACTH test , positive Cushings, but she did not gain weight. Her spine was easily felt, and her hips were very thin.
I hope Milo feels better soon.

[molly muffin]

Good luck today!

Sharlene