Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

[doxiesrock912]

Praying for both of you as always Patti.

[Budsters Mom]

Tipper will have to eat her breakfast and take her meds in the car, as I do not want to be late.

Patti,
Buddy had to be fasted for his Ultrasounds. Fasting helps to be able to view the organs more clearly. You might want to call and check on this just in case.

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
I questioned that in my mind also as the last time she had to be fasted, but they said she didn't this time. I am wondering why??? I am going to call there tomorrow morning to make sure. I am a nervous wreck about if this tumor has grown. I am trying to stay busy and it just keeps replaying over and over in my mind. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am still having some residual pain in my back around my shoulder blade and around the muscle on my chest wall. It is quite bothersome and I hope it goes away soon. Tipper had a good nite sleeping with some noise. The congested sound I had been hearing is for the most part not evident right now thank goodness. This cooler weather is really helping her so much. It is really damp, and the sky is black and we are supposed to get rain. Tipper has already walked. I started really cutting into her food allowance to the point where I am counting nuggets in an attempt to rectify this weight gain once and for all. I am trying to keep busy as I am really nervous about the ultra sound Tuesday and then Wednesday the ACTH and blood work. I have just a tightening in my chest, and a sick feeling in my stomach from worrying about all this. I am trying to stay busy so todays project is dusting in the house. I absolutely hate to dust, I would rather scrub 20 floors. I have an older man that is not well that lives near me and I gave him some vegetable soup yesterday, and he was so happy to get it since he does not cook. Tipper will be ok today as long as there is no thunder, so I am hoping it is just rain. Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,
I wonder if a warm bath with Epsom salts would help you?

Try to relax, I know that you're worried but it sounds like your vet is finally in your corner. He'll help Tipper with whatever she needs. Hugs.

[kaibosmom]

I was going to say the same thing. Relax. Worrying does no good but stress you out. You can't control tomorrow you can't control the ultrasound. It is what it is. Enjoy today. Live in the present. Tipper is with you today. Enjoy her! Maybe it's because it is Thanksgiving in Canada but that's how I'm feeling today. You have to enjoy and be thankful for what you have today. And tomorrow be thankful for tomorrow. Stop worrying and live for today :) Here's a challenge for you. Try to catch your negative thoughts and turn them into positives. For example, my boobs hurt from that mammogram becomes "yay. I've got healthy boobs!" So many women don't. Hugs. Nikki and Kaibo.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I forgot to mention I had started Tipper on the Hawthorne for her heart yesterday. The cardiologist told me it can cause gastro upset. I mixed it in her food. I did hear some gurgling of her stomach last nite so I am going to give it in the am instead. That way she has more food all day long and it will be less likely to upset her system. She slept well with little noise, and seemed more calm when breathing, and less effort to do so. I am hoping this continues to help her. Leslie is a lifesaver with the knowledge of all things herbal. She has saved Tipper and I numerous times and I cannot thank her enough. It is cool here this morning and Tipper has already walked. Yesterday she seemed to have an over abundance of energy. I need to get all her things together and in the car so tomorrow morning we can get out of here without a hitch. I heard we are to get real fall weather in a few days and that will be great for my Tipper. Blessings
Patti

[Woodydog]

Patti: I have been thinking of you all week, I know all too well the sick feeling that you have in your stomach I,m right there with you and Tipper. I pray that it hasn,t grown any and that you and Tipper can finally relax just a little as I know you worry.

Woody goes tomorrow for another US as well and some more tests so fingers crossed we can both post good updates tomorrow night, you and the lovely Tipper will be in my thoughts tomorrow ;)

Tracy

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti,

Hmm, well that makes me wonder if the breathing sounds are connected to the heart issues then, if the Hawthorn is helping wit that. Hopefully it will continue to help her out.
Hoping that tomorrows appointment is smooth sailing with some good news at the end of the day. I know it's going to be exhausting after everything you just went through at your own doctors appointment, so try to take it as easy as you can.
As always you know we are all right there with you in spirit.
hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
I don't think so , but at any rate she is seeing the cardiologist in November to see how her heart is doing, and get an xray to check if there is any enlargement. I think because this Hawthorne opens their blood vessels and lets more blood flow to the heart it is just making it easier on her. Also it will regulate blood pressure either up or down and that is amazing in itself. How is Molly doing with the stairs? Hope it is all working out for the #1 child. She certainly could not have a better life than with you. I hope she continues to do well. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti, well that makes perfect sense then, with the opening of the blood vessels, but see if she continues to breath easier on it, because you never know, what thing is leading to another thing, when it comes to these oh so delicate systems. They are strong, yet, they seem delicate to me when something goes wrong in one.

Molly is exhausted tonight. We had a full house today, she managed to try to be in the kitchen every second she could, which wasn't easy, since she isn't allowed in the kitchen if someone is using a knife, she has to sit outside the cooking area and "stay" which she doesn't like. A couple times she sneaked in and I would block her with my foot, which after an hour, of repeatedly being blocked, she decided to attack. Well, as funny as it was seeing this little dog try to put her whole mouth around my shoe, that was just a no go, since we are being serious about this. (this is hubby's rule and he worries that what if someone dropped a knife and she was right under foot) Makes sense to me. So, had to put a stop to that little antic.

She went down the stairs the other day and did come up on her own. She wasn't happy and barked for a long time, but I couldn't go down and walk her up as I was on a conference call for work. She hasn't gone down since but will stand at the top of the stairs and watch if I am down there doing something to see if I am coming right back up or not. We'll get there. :) We can be stubborn too. LOL

Have a safe trip.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Patti, Praying that all goes well with Tipper's ultra sound. Hope she gets a good report.
Hope you are feeling better.
Hugs

[spdd]

Hoping and praying all goes will with you and Tipper today.

[Woodydog]

Patti hope all is going well with you and the lovely Tipper when you can, let us know :)

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am one happy chick today. My baby is ok. The tumor is still the same size and has not grown at all. I cried all the way home I am so relieved. I have prayed on this for weeks now, and God gave Tipper a pass. I am ever so thankful. In the waiting room I sat with my rosary praying for Tipper and Woody. Next to me on each side was a dog with Cushings if you can believe it!!! This disease is ridiculous. I gave them the website address here and offered them some support. I hope they join us and get some much needed help. On the way there someone wrecked and we went bumper to bumper for 15 miles. I had to call and tell the hospital what happened, thank God for cell phones. It just so happened my Dr. was stuck in it too so that worked out for us. We did not have to wait they took her right away. THANK YOU GOD FOR ANSWERING MY PRAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! This dog means so mush to me that I could hardly eat the last couple days thinking of this appointment. Tomorrow she goes for her ACTH and Blood work so I pray it turns out good also. The end of November she see the eye Dr. and the Cardiologist. So we have pretty much covered our bases before winter comes so we can limit our travel. She will have to have periodic US's to check the tumor after a couple months. She did scare me on the way home though, she was doing that real rapid breathing for quite a while. She is resting now after her walk and is not doing it any more. I got a disc burned of each US image she has had and will give them to my vet to look at, but want them back. The rest of the day is going to be low key because I did not sleep well and I am tired after that drive. I am equally as pleased with the findings on Woody. Yes this is one of those terrific days! Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

WOOHOO!! So glad to hear the tumor hasn't grown! Now get some rest and enjoy that sweet girl a bit today.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Woodydog]

Woop woop way to go Tipper this is fab news your prayers for Tipper and Woody have been answered and thank you for thinking of Woody. They really are built to last these little jacks of ours. Now go rest, relax and cuddle your precious girl that's what I'm doing

[addy]

Well I sure am glad I signed on today and checked your thread so I could share in the good news!!!!!

Yea, Tipper!!!! Good girl!!!!

[goldengirl88]

Thank you everyone who prayed for my girl. She is so tired out she is napping. We are to get rain until Friday and then on the weekend also. Glad I did my stuff outside, but sorry the dogs will not be able to walk. Going to the ACTH tomorrow so I am going to get some rest, this wears me out, but I will gladly do it for my baby. Blessings
Patti

[Simba's Mom]

Yay Tipper, good news, sending prayers and hugs....

[molly muffin]

That is great news Patti! :) couldn't be happier for you and for Tipper.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[FemaleK9]

Haven't posted here before, but I've been lurking and concerned. So glad to hear good news!

[Budsters Mom]

Whew! Great news Patti!:p xxxx

[doxiesrock912]

That's incredible news Patti!!!!!!!!

[spdd]

Such great news Patti. It was a good day for both Tipper and Woody. Sure pray todays tests come back normal and you can then relax a little, and as you put it settle in for the winter.

Way to go Tipper !!!... now show them today you are doing well, thanks to your Momma.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Last nite it rained hard so Tipper went in the closet. She gets an acidy stomach from her nerves and early this morning I could here the gastro noises loud and clear. As soon as she goes potty, and eats about 20 minutes later she is ok and it goes away. I hate like heck to take her back to the vets again after yesterday, but I need these ACTH numbers. I pray we can get thru the blood work hurdle and that things have settled done with her ALT and Alk phos. I don't want those number any higher than they were last time. I am praying with the supplements and gallbladder meds that the numbers are down. This is our last hurdle to cross for now. You know I was so thankful about yesterdays outcome, I did not ask God for anything last nite just said a million thank you's. I will resume the cush pups prayers tonite. At least we don't have to be at the vets until 11:am so we don't have to rush out of here. It is still coming down this morning, and if it stops I will walk Tipper. Toby could care less about the rain, but I won't take him and leave Tipper alone so he has to wait until she can go. That little Teddy is as cute as a button, and so sick please everyone pray for him to recover, his mom is really struggling with this. I was so glad for everything I have learned from all of you yesterday when I met two sets of Cush parents. I was able to pay forward the knowledge I have gained, so you have helped more people. I hope to see them join the forum. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
We are back from the vets office. Both of us are exhausted. Tipper seemed annoyed this time without my regular vet. The substitute was a young lady with attitude, which doesn't go well with Tipper and I. I went thru everything to make sure there were no mistakes and everything was timed right. I am sure she will tell my vet that she thought she was being interrogated by an FBI agent! I just don't care anymore, all I care about is my girl being taken care of properly. Hope she is not a regular at this office, I can see a clash coming on!! I informed her I would pick up the results as soon as they were in, she started to tell me she had to go over them, I interrupted her telling her it is not necessary and this is my regular procedure at which the techs told her yes it is. So I will scan them myself as soon as I get my hands on them. I pray the blood work is good, so I can relax for at least a few days. It is real dark and pouring rain again this evening. Tipper did get a walk after the vet visit. I am praying for dear Woody, and so sorry for his diagnosis. Blessings
Patti

[Roxee's Dad]

Keeping all fingers and paws crossed for great results! :)

[molly muffin]

You can handle any vet thrown at you. :) No worries there. Hoping the numbers all come back really good!

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[scoora]

Patti, Glad to hear all went well with the ultra sound. Hopefully the test results will be good news also.
Prayers and hugs to you and Tipper.

[doxiesrock912]

We're waiting with you Patti, hugs.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thank you all for your well wishes, you are getting me thru all this with your strength. Tipper had a good nite last nite, we both were exhausted and it was lights out early. Tipper even slept in 15 minutes late which she never does. It gave me hope yesterday when I read the post from the person that has kept their dog going for 3 years now on Trilostane. I am once again hoping for another birthday for my girl. I will be calling the vets office around 11am to see if Tipper's blood work is in, I am anxious to see it after all the tweaks I have done with her supplements etc. I will finally be able to let go a little and not have this knot in my stomach if the blood work is ok. It is really cool here this morning Tipper had to wear a vest to walk. It rained all nite and is going to start here again shortly. Tipper finally had a break thru and lost 2 whole ounces. I am not going to complain as any loss is good right now. I will be happy when my regular vet is back on the 21st. I will post as soon as I get the numbers. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well I have the results in hand and need some opinions as soon as possible cause you know me I want this under control yesterday. Tipper's post jumped from 3.0 to 8.3 and that is why I am seeing the hunger etc. The pre was 0.7 and went up to 1.5. Now here is the tricky part. I want to lower the post without lowering the pre too much. My though is this she is currently taking 20mg Vetoryl in the morning and 5mg trilostane at nite. She had previously been on 30mg Vetoryl in the morning until her pre dropped to 0.7 that is when they wanted the dosage dropped. Since 30mg is too much and 25 is too low, how would 20mg Vetoryl and 7mg Trilostane nboth given at the same time in the morning. I had given her the 20 Vetoryl and 5 trilo together in the morning and that was not enough she was starving at nite so they made me split the dose 20 and 5. SO I say 27mg all at one time in the morning. I would love and need some opinions. Do you think I should go to 28 with 8 being trilostane? THis is getting expesive as I just bought 90 of the 5mg trilo, now probably can't use them.
The other things I was worried about was the Alk Phos. it was previously 201 and is down to 150. The ALT had been 137 and is now 88. So I am grateful for that especially when the IMKS told me the Ursidiol would make no difference in Tipper's ALT. Well we know that not to be true, and I am so glad I listened to myself and put her on it anyway. The other value that I am still really concerned over is the Reticulocyte it was 129 now 128 but that is still high. It has something to do with new blood cells not forming totally, like in hemolytic anemia. Does anyone else have their blood report and have high reticulocyte? If so please let me know the numbers you baby has, I need to get this worked on asap. The rest of the blood report was good but the triglycerides are still thru the roof which is common for cush dogs. I am relieved, but must get on this cortisol lowering now. I could tell by the way she was acting that it had increased, and I kept saying about her moving around the bed at nite which seems to be a hallmark for it. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated so thank you in advance. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Just a quick note. I think you'll need to continue with the split dosage, but maybe tweak it a bit. What I would probably do is increase it in the evening, by adding to it as that is when she gets restless and hungry. Don't throw away a 5mg, you could order say 2mg pills or even 3mg to add to the 5, but I think leave the 20 alone in the morning, since we know that 30mg at one time takes her dangerously low.
It is harder with an adrenal tumor than a pituitary one I think, when it comes to management and dose tweaking seem to be the norm.

Are those ALT and ALP results in the normal range? or still high? No I don't have anything with molly having abnormal Reticulocyte.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Patti,
I agree with Sharlene on this one. Afternoon and evening seem to be the time when Tipper is the most uncomfortable. Once a day dosage will likely increase that, as her morning Vetoryl wears off. You might want to tweak it a little, but I wouldn't do away with her evening dosage all together. I think she needs at least some Trilo in the evening.

[goldengirl88]

Do you still think that when her 30mg dose lasted her all day and there were no issues?

[Squirt's Mom]

This is my think-so only, I don't know if there is anything to support this or not. But it seems to me since this drug is known to have such a very short life in the body and it is known that adrenal tumors are more difficult to manage medically, it would make more sense to try to keep an even amount of the drug in the system over a 24 hour period instead of a lot in the mornings and a little bit at night. In my simple mind, it would be better to have the dose more evenly divided AM and PM.

Again, this is just my whacky mind wandering down the corridors but it makes sense to me.

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
The Alk Phos is normal but at the very end of normal the range is 10-150 hers is currently 150, it used to be 35 believe it or not. The Alt is normal also in the range of 5-107 with hers at 88. It is coming down with the meds.

Thanks Leslie I always take your information seriously as you really seem to have a knack for knowing what to do.

Kathy thanks for the input, it is helping me do the right thing here.

I called Diamondback and even though I have about 60 capsules of 5mgs of Trilostane left, it is just as cheap to order 7 mg. as it is 2mg. So that way I won't have to give her 2 pills. She will be getting 27mg a day and I think that will be where she needs to be without making the top number go too low. I talked to Dechra and the vet wants to talk to my vet, so my vet is out until Monday and I will take care of this then, I do not want to have to deal with the vet subbing for him. It is just better that way. I need to get a grip on this Reticulocyte problem. If anyone is familiar with it please let me know. I am going to have to get my vet researching it and find out how to correct this, I have looked but not found a whole lot of possibilities. It is pouring here again and the forecast sayd we go to the 40's next week. Tipper will be thrilled. Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

We split Daisy's dose exactly in half so that she gets the same amount twice a day. This is the best way to go.

[spdd]

Hi Patti... just checking your posts and the test results. You know I can't help you at all.... but I still check to see how you and Tipper are doing.

Glad things went fairly well, and I know you'll do everything possible for your baby.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well Tipper had a decent nite, but as I said before moving all around the bed. Lots of swallowing and her mouth sounded sticky, and she was sticking her tongue out again repeatedly all nite. She was so restless that she kept me up a lot unfortunately. I am eagerly awaiting my vets return to get her an increase in her trilo RX. I am going to continue the research on the Reticulocyte and see what solution I can come up with. Tipper already walked, it was dark here so you have to use a flashlight because of skunks. We are both going to take it easy for the day, I am physically feeling the strain. I don't have to take her anywhere until Wednesday for blood pressure, and Thursday I have to take Elvis to get his semi annual trimming etc. So not too bad of a week coming up. Tipper was snuggling with the covers last nite like she used to do. It is so good to see them do things that they haven't done since being sick. She is definitely enjoying the cooler weather. She has quite a few of those little fatty bumps now. The one on her knee cap may have to get removed under a local as it is big like a quarter size and feels like it could burst. When I massage her I am finding all these new little bumps. Some could be calcium deposits. I am going to email the IMS about the Reticulocyte thing and see what she says about it. I never let anything go as I want to get things while they are small problems, so this is gnawing away at me. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

I hope you manage to get in a relaxing day and that the weekend gives you some time to rest.

Finding the right balance for them is hard sometimes, I am going through that with Zoe. Parts of her needs a higher cortisol number and other parts need a lower one:o:o

Keep the faith.

[goldengirl88]

Addy:
I know how busy you are thanks for taking time out to think of my girl. Hope Zoe is well. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Another decent nite for Tipper and she has already walked today as rain is supposed to be approaching. I sent the IMS a letter asking about the Reticulocyte being high on Tipper's report and what to do in tic situation. I will see if she has any ideas. Tipper had good energy yesterday. In the afternoon a bulldozer came onto the property behind us and started digging. They are putting in a garage. Well Tipper heard the machine and started to shake. It is unbelievable, we are getting rid of the storms for cooler weather, and she won't have to worry about them, so now this. I hope it goes up quickly as it is near the part of the house where my office is and she loves it in there. I have a blanket and pillows on the floor for her. I don't want to have to contain her to the front of the house for God knows how long. She is just super sensitive to noise since being on Vetoryl. I sent for Lourdes water for Tipper from the famous spring in Lourdes France where many miraculous healings have taken place. Friends wanted to pay to send my dad there when her got sick, but her was too ill to make the journey. There is nothing I will not do to try to heal my girl, so I am going to try it. Blessings
Patti

[gatorgirl_bama]

Patti,
Just thinking about you and Tipper. My Tia was sensitive to sounds too. Even a cough would send her running. If I felt a cough or sneeze coming on, I'd get up and run to another room. Bless their hearts.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about y'all.

Donna

[goldengirl88]

Donna:
Yes it is terrible what this disease does and how it changes your baby. Tipper is always on the alert for any strange noise, her ears are always going like little radar. The Vetoryl has really changed her personality. If you make her mad, or she doesn't get what she wants when she wants it look out. She was never like that. She is also very impatient, which was not the case previous to all this. I love her no matter what, and will continue to fight for her. I am so sorry for the hard time you are going through. It has to be the worst thing in the world to lose you best friend. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well is poured here all nite but Tipper did well. As long as there is no thunder she seems ok. She was drinking a bit more yesterday, I can't wait until Monday to get an Rx from my vet for the 7mg trilostane. I hope that puts her where she needs to be. It is in the 40's this morning, next week we are expecting snow and rain all week. That is ok as we do better in the colder weather. I can really tell the difference in her from the Adequan shots. I was looking up some herbs yesterday that keep inflammation down. I do not want that tumor growing and want to keep her pain to a minimum. I am going to run them past Leslie and see what she thinks. I thought I would add this just in case anyone ever gets the idea to use Yucca, don't do it as it said it stimulates the adrenal glands. Tipper had to have her coat on this morning. Her hair is thin and she has none at all on her belly from all the shaving for the ultra sounds. My heat was coming on all nite. That is one bill I hate to pay. Tipper's Vetoryl went up from 34.95 to 41.95. That is quite a jump, and since I have to buy 2 boxes and trilostane on top of that, it is really getting tight around here. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well my vet will be back today and I can get a new RX for Tipper's trilostane part of her dosage. I have not heard any answer from the IMS on the letter I faxed her last week, she may be out and not working for a few days. it is freezing here this morning in the low 30's and we are to see snow flurries by weeks end. Last nite Tipper got under the covers for the first time in a long time. I have to put a jacket on her when I take her out first thing to potty because she is so warm from being under the covers to go out in 30 something degrees with nothing on would be asking for trouble. Her hair is sparse and she has had her belly shaved for Ultra Sounds so she has not real fur to stay warm. I know in this weakened condition of her immune system etc. I need to make sure she is taken care of well as we do not need other problems. She has a good nite, snoring and a lot of twitching and leg jumping, but did well sleeping over all. I am going to sprinkle some Tumeric over her food tonite as it is good for inflammation. Hope she eats it! Blessings
Patti

[addy]

It is freezing here too, Patti. I am hoping it kills off the dang ticks for Koko. I had to wear gloves to walk the puppies this morning.

I hope the 7 mgs work for Tipper. Im in a similar boat with Zoe. Her 20 mgs at night seem too much for her but 10 mgs at night while she feels better, her urine becomes dilute.

Have a good day!!!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well after days of intensive research I finally found out what is causing Tipper's Reticulocyte count to keep going so high. It is called Endocrinopathy-associated erythrocytosis caused by hormones-adrenocortical hyperactivity. It causes hyperviscosity from increased RBC mass. Excitable dogs erythrocytosis is attributed to the fact fear and excitement cause splenic contractions which release more RBC. On retinal examination dilated, tortuous blood vessels may be seen, this is from hyperviscosity of the increased RBC mass.

In short Tipper is making to many red blood cells and her blood is thick, it can cause heart problems etc., and cause tiredness which she has been having. When the eye Dr. told me she had broken blood vessels in her eyes this is the cause. The fear and excitement is totally right on as I asked the eye Dr. if this could have been caused by her fear of storms, and he said yes.
The treatment for this is removing some blood, which requires a hospital stay, and drugs, which she may have to stay on for the rest of her life. The bad thing is it can mess with her white blood cells. I thank God I kept at this until I found the problem. I need to get my vet involved in this immediately. For right now she is in the normal range, but looking back at her values they have been high many times.
This disease causes so many underlying problems that it is hard to keep up with what is happening on a day to day basis. This seems to ruin or upset every system in their bodies. It is exhausting trying to stay one step ahead of this.
Tipper slept well last nite. Now I know why she is tired and not wanting to walk that much! I still feel strongly that when you tell your vet this stuff it should be incumbent upon them to search and find these problems, that is what they are being paid for, but it is never done. Unfortunately I am the one that always has to find the answers. As long as I help my girl that is all I care about, but it does make me hoppin mad. I am just thankful I have the resources to get the job done. I think I should get a huge rebate from my vet. Blessings
Patti

[FemaleK9]

I have to wonder how many of our thunderstorm terrorized dogs have similar or other problems because of all the stress. Many vets don't seem to take this problem very seriously or even understand how extreme this phobia can be.

I don't know if it's related or just a coincidence, but an awful lot of our Cushpups seem to be afflicted with this problem.

I had to sedate (acepromezine) Rosie last night because it rained. No thunder or lightning, just darkness, wind and rain, all of which she associates with thunderstorms and therefore they trigger the panic. She has also dreamed thunderstorms several times recently and woken up in a fullblown panic when none of her triggers were present. It takes sustained good weather to allow her to completely recover after an episode; the longer the bad weather has been, the longer time it will take to recover. And unfortunately, in this part of NY it is seldom sunny for more than two days in a row. This has to be taking a toll on her.

[goldengirl88]

Karen:
Do you have any Reticulocyte values on any of you baby's blood work? If they are high this is the reason. If they are you need to get something done about it asap. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well it would seem I have unlocked Pandora's Box. This is the reason a lot of the Cush pups are having trouble with thunderstorm, and loud noises. After all the vets etc.told me don't worry about it ( Reticulocyte) I am glad I listened to that inner voice of mine that said don't listen to them. This can be very dangerous. It thickens their blood and can cause many neurologic problems, eye problems, blindness, stroke the list goes on and on. I have prepared letters to my vet and the IMS with proof showing them they are wrong, and this is definitely what caused Tipper's eye vessel bleeding. I told them I want to get on this like yesterday. I looked at my spread sheet and all of Tipper's last 5 Reticulocyte values were very high. I read phlebotomy and hydroxyurea will lower her making red blood cells, and I do not mess it to mess with the white, that is the tricky part. It has to be done in a hospital so someone better move their ___ on this. I am not fooling around with these vets, after I read all this you could have scraped me off the ceiling. I am thankful I have learned to never ever give up,and to trust myself. So everyone having babies afraid of storms- it could be caused by the tumor from Cushings or excess cortisol, please read my previous post. God is looking after my girl by pushing me to find this. I am shocked at how much these vets do not know, I am wondering what they did learn in school?????? Without the tumor being removed this will continue to happen, so the only solution is what I stated previously. Blessings
Patti

[FemaleK9]

Patti, what exactly am I looking for? I would guess under hematology, but I don't see "reticulocytes" listed there, or anywhere, on the bloodwork report I have. Her RBC (red blood count) is a little high at 9.06 (ref 5.5-8.5) though.

[doxiesrock912]

Wow Patti! That is amazing!!!!!

[Cooper is missed]

If the blood is thicker does that mean it will clot easier? My Cooper had an aortic blood clot and the specialist vet said it was a complication of his Cushings. Maybe this is what he meant? It's been 7 weeks today since we had to let him go and I'm still trying to figure out what happened to him. I sure hope you get some answers from your vet. This disease is so complicated and horrible.

[goldengirl88]

Karen:
I noticed that on my blood reports years ago the Reticulocytes were not even listed. I don't know if the lab adds it if they find something wrong or the Dr. orders it, I will have to find out at the vet this morning. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Regarding Cooper that could be a possibility as when blood is thicker it will make clots. I luckily stumbled upon this after much research. I am going to get my Tipper on something to thin her blood. This reticulocyte when high means too many re blood cells are being made, thus the thickening of the blood. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

Hi Patti,

I found your information very interesting and decided to do a little more reading myself. Issues associated with abnormally elevated red cell counts are indeed genuine. But from what I saw, fearful behavior is what triggers the hyperactivity of the spleen and the increase in red blood cells -- not the other way around. So the fearful behavior is the cause of the increased cell production and not the result. Additionally, red cell production caused by fear is only a temporary abnormality.


Transient polycythemia is a type of relative polycythemia that is caused by splenic contraction. The spleen is a storage site for mature red blood cells. When a dog becomes extremely excited or experiences fear, anger, restraint, vigorous exercise or surprise, its spleen contracts in response to the release of epinephrine by its adrenal glands. Epinephrine is commonly called adrenaline. When the spleen contracts, it injects large numbers of red blood cells into circulation, thereby increasing the relative ratio of red cells to fluid in the blood. This is beneficial for dogs that are experiencing sudden and strong feelings, because the increased concentration of red blood cells facilitates the transport of oxygen to key organs and body tissues, preparing the dog for unusually energetic activity.

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Health/Polycythemia/Causes.aspx

It is true that Cushing's itself can be associated with chronically mildly abnormal red blood cell levels (also discussed in that article). But the mechanism involved is neither the cause nor the result of a fear response. In Tipper's case, it seems to me that you may have legitimate concerns if her cell counts are consistently highly abnormal. But from what I have read, I don't think that abnormality is what is causing her fear of storms, and lowering the red cell count will not solve that particular problem.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
Tipper falls into the category of Secondary Erythrocytosis. This is Endocrinopathy associated Erythrocytosis it is found in dogs with adrenal hyperactivity which does cause behavior changes. I know what you are referring to about the splenic release after fear or excitement. Some of the dogs here may fall into that category. So Tipper's crazy reactions to storms etc. is associated with the behavior changes caused by Endocrinopathy associated Erythrocytosis. In fact I was just at the vets office and he agrees, and said she may suffer from both, having the Secondary that makes her fearful, and then the splenic reaction takes over after that and keys her up. Thanks for your help, I need all I can get at this point.
Patti

[labblab]

OK, Patti, I gotcha. It will be really interesting to see whether Tipper's fear abates any if she does have some blood drawn off. The thing is, a fear of storms is so common among dogs, in general, that I am having a hard time linking it specifically to the erythrocytosis. Many of my friends' dogs, none of whom are Cushpups, are very afraid of storms. But my own Cushpup never blinked an eye even during the worst thunder and lightning. I guess in Tipper's case, the proof will totally be in the pudding. And I surely hope for both your sakes that her fear can be lessened!

For the majority of dogs with Cushing's, though, it sounds as though secondary erythrocytosis usually remains mild and doesn't cause significant issues.


Another type of secondary erythrocytosis, called endocrinopathy-associated erythrocytosis , results from hormones other than EPO (eg, cortisol, androgen, thyroxine, growth hormone) that stimulate erythropoiesis. The mild erythrocytosis in dogs with adrenocortical hyperactivity or in cats with hyperthyroidism or acromegaly is insufficient to cause clinical signs.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/circulatory_system/erythrocytosis_and_polycythemia/overview_of_erythrocytosis_and_polycythemia.html

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne;
Do you know anything about this blood draw, and this drug? I am wondering is this dangerous? Otherwise why does she have to go to the hospital?? Thanks for your help
Patti

[labblab]

Patti, no, I'm afraid I don't know anything about the drug. With people, drawing the blood off is no big deal at all -- exactly the same process as when people donate blood. When you say that Tipper's procedure needs to be done in the hospital, does that mean in a location different from your vet's office? If so, I'd definitely ask your vet why, and clarify what all will be involved.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
I found out it has to be done with a catheter and a bag that is marked so amount taken out can be clearly seen. It says they would stay about 6 hours, so that indicates to me that my vet could do this in his operating room???? The person doing it obviously has to know the exact amount to draw. It does not seem complicated. I do not want to take Tipper to the hospital and get her stressed out- which is bad for this condition if my vet can do this safely. He is going to call me back and I will let you know what he says. Thank you for always helping me. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone;
I talked to my vet again last nite. He called Diamondback and changed Tipper's trilostane from 5mg to 7mg. He talked to Dechra and they said to give her 10mg of Vetoryl at nite. He and I both agreed that since she went dangerously low on the total of 30mg why would we give it to her again. That made no sense at all to either of us. So her total will be 20mg morning and 7mg evening which will be given earlier than normal ( not waiting the 12 hours). So she will get it at 7am and 5pm when she usually starts with the hunger. So she will get a total of 27mg. It will be here in a few days. I hope this works as this is getting very expensive and eating up money I need for her vet visits. Yesterday evening when I took her out to potty and brought her back in she was adamant that she was going to get food. I was carrying her to put her on my bed and she was so engrossed in trying to get food that she scratched me unknowingly really bad on my chest. I had to leave the room and go in my office because she would not stop jumping on me etc. for food. Yesterday they could not take her blood pressure as when I pulled into the vets a lady had a big dog she was taking in that was barking and it started Tipper up, so to take her blood pressure at that point is useless as it will be sky high. That is why I like to go when no one else is there. My vet and I discussed the other problem with Tipper's Reticulocytes. I am also waiting for an answer from the IMS. He said she definitely would have to go to the hospital for phlebotomy her would not even think of doing it. So we have to get all this sorted out on what to do. He said he needs a few days to go over all this and check on it all. I am so nervous about all this, as it does have scary repercussions. I am not feeling well because of all this and I have to take Elvis tonite for his wings and beak etc. I also have to go to the phone store as this wonderful piece of junk IPHONE is not working right and they are replacing it, with a used one. Don't you love it, you buy a new one and they replace it with a used one. What a gimmick they have going. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

Patti, how highly elevated is Tipper's reticulocyte count (and for how long?). I am assuming she must also have elevations in her red cell count, hemoglobin, and/or hematocrit, too, and that's why the reticulocyte counts have been ordered?

The reason I'm asking is because from that Veterinary Merck Manual excerpt, it sounds as though erythrocytosis (if present) is usually not severe enough to actually create problems for most Cushpups. I know you'll hate to put Tipper through the stress of a hospitalization to draw off blood unless there truly seems to be sufficient need for it to be done. I'm hoping this is what your IMS is looking into right now for you.

Marianne

[Dianaww]

Hi Patti I have read all this so you don't need to reply on my post, I can only say as I did on Teddy's post, that I am here for you ANYTIME you need to talk, I wish I understood all this more and could help you. My heart goes out to you and Dear Tipper. Love Diana & Teddy x

[Simba's Mom]

Sending prayers and hugs!!

[Dianaww]

Patti HOW is Tipper today and HOW ARE YOU Much Love Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
The last 5 blood work ups for her all of the Reticulocyte was high with normal being (10-110) 12/12 was 153 2/13 was 158 4/13 was 140 5/13 was 145 8/13 was 129 10/13 was 128 they are all high

HCT normal is (37-55)
2/13 was 59, 4/13 was 58.1, 5/13 was 55.5 8/13 was 58.9, 10/13 was 54 only one was normal

All of the MCV's for these periods were (60-77)normal range hers were all 73,75,73,73,72 they were all high normal.

I am waiting for the IMS to get in touch with me, sometimes she is off for a few days. I am not rushing into anything, but my vet and I are both convinced this is what caused the bleeding in her eyes. He wants to research it and get back to me in a few days. He is leaning away from doing anything with her blood and after reading up on it so am I. I am wanting to see how we can lower the Reticulocyte count, and keep her from making clots or any more eye bleeding. If you find anything or have an suggestions I sure need them from you. Than you for always helping me with things
Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Wow Patti,

You have your hands full. I'm glad that Tipper's vet is finally more proactive with her care. I'm agree with avoiding the blood draw if there is another way to lower the count without messing with something else.

As for the phone, ironically-the tests for refurbished phones are considerably more stringent and you're likely to end up with a phone that works much better. Please ask if the used phone is factory refurbished.

Praying for good alternatives to help Tipper!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had an ok nite, just many episodes of muscle tremors going on. We had a good snow on the ground yesterday. My day was mainly taken up by this IPHONE piece of junk. Finally the new one is working for right now. I am waiting for the cable man to come as I am having a very strange problem happening here. As of a few months ago I cannot fax, email or call the Animal Hospital in Pittsburgh. My emails are returned, my calls will not go thru, and the fax just keeps ringing and will not go thru. My only way of contact is to go to the library and fax them or use the cell phone that has not been working. Gee what a great choice. Now that the cell is working I can call at least. The only problem is I have to fax to the IMS for her to answer me, she does not take calls. I had to write her a letter with the information about these developments with Tipper if you can believe that. It was just too much stuff to go and fax somewhere. So I am hoping that the cable man can tell me why this is happening and no one else calling that hospital is having this problem. It is this phone/cable co. I know it has to be. Solving this is another issue. I figured I better post before he comes because I don't know what will happen next. I am very worried about finding a solution to Tipper's dilemma that is not dangerous. I told the vet Tipper has been sleeping a lot and not as active the last few weeks, which does fall in line with the symptoms of this problem. I am hoping Marianne can help as I posted some of Tipper's numbers for her to see. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

Oh Patti you just DON'T Need the iPhone and Fax issues, with dear Tippers situation do you, in seems in life, it all comes a long at once, My heart goes out to you, I am thinking of you all the time, and of course of Tipper too. Teddy and I send our love and best wishes to you both. Much Love Diana * Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well the cable man was here and called the phone company to tell them I am not crazy, and that this is a big problem since I need to contact my dog's vet at this number. They are thinking it is a relay switch in their system. Well thank God they are at least thinking instead of appeasing me with we'll look into it. The guy who came out said he has only seen this one other time. Oh am I lucky right?? So they are steadfastly working on it today supposedly. All I know is I better be able to fax, call or email my vet at this number by days end. Tipper seems to have so extra energy today and that is nice to see, it helps me not worry so much today. She has walked 3 times today already. It is freezing and the wind is blowing hard. She has her winter coat on.. I just found out our substitute mail person must have mistakenly delivered Tipper's liver supplement to someone else. The company was so kind about it when I called to see where it was they sent me a replacement, which is great I need them for her. I am wondering what else can go wrong this week??? The IPhone expert who programmed my email to my phone screwed up and it does not work. So if anyone knows what to put in your IPhone 5 for windows live mail let me know. Toby got away from me and tired to nail the cable man, at which point he just laughed at him. Tipper on the other hand was locked in the bedroom as she would have gotten him for sure. I took Elvis last nite for his wings etc. and on the way there which is 25 miles, it rained, snowed and hailed in different areas we went thru. Elvis' feet are bothering him today. When they get their nails clipped back it bothers them. Once they get so long they have to be cut back like that to keep the quick back in the nail. So he is taking turns standing on one foot then the other. He loved the car ride, but on the way home the car lites shining in on him scared him to death so I had to cover him all the way. Never a dull moment here. The cable man found a long white whisker on my phone base, and asked what it was. I said it's one of my cat's whiskers, maybe he was using the phone and that's why it's all messed up. He just looked at me, which I think he thought I was serious for a minute till he thought about it. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

Oh Patti what a song and dance as we say in the UK, I do so hope you get it all sorted soon, at least they are doing something, and as you say, not just saying they will look into it, 25 miles wow, is that your nearest vet?

As you very rural then? it sounds like you are.

I hope Tipper continues to have more energy and that her supplements turn up soon, Take care keep us posted.

Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Diana:
Hope you and Teddy are having a great day. Yes we are rural, which is new to us because I lived my whole life in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania in the suburbs. You had so many things available to you. Here I am minutes from a small town that has only a grocery store and pharmacy. You have to drive at least 20 mile to get to anything. My vet here is 20 miles away. The other one I use the Internal Medicine Specialist is over 2 1/2 hours away in Pittsburgh. That is why I am so disgusted that I cannot contact her in any way because of this phone company problem. I sent her a letter asking her about Tipper's condition. She probably thinks I am nuts sending a letter and wondering why I did not email, call, or fax???? Now my cell phone is working at least so I can call her on it, but she does not take phone calls. I can however leave a message for her thru her assistant. I have had my share of problems this week! Are you close to the Dr. for Teddy? How is he doing today? I say prayers for you both every nite. Teddy is just so precious, I hope he can get thru this, and that it is a mistake and he does not have cancer. It is terrible to love an animal so much, and have these things happen. It is just like a family member when it happens, even though some people say to me get over it it's just a dog. I love her more than anything and will continue to fight on her behalf. I understand your reluctance to put sweet Teddy thru any more. He has had so much now. Blessings and hug and kisses to you and Teddy from Tipper and I.
Patti

[gatorgirl_bama]

Holy cow girl there's a lot going on with you and Tipper. Please keep up updates and I'm sending lots of love and prayers to you both.

Donna

[FemaleK9]

Thank you, Patti, for the laugh! That's two for me today so far, first Diana in her pajamas at the vet, now you and your kitty phone.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I once had a phone from a liquidation of an out-of-business motel. It had a light that flashed when the phone rang as well as a ringer, for the hard of hearing. I also had a beautiful white cat named Dogberry, and you know how cats are with flashing lights. He would attack the phone when it rang and knock the the handset out of the cradle. We were always discovering one of the phones was off the hook when we tried to make a call on another extension (and whe knew which one probably needed putting it back on the hook), or having friends and family come by telling us they'd been trying to reach us for hours, but the line was always busy.

One day I got a phone call from a very irate friend in another city. She said, "what kind of game were you playing, it wasn't very funny and I was calling long distance so it cost me money!" I said, "????" and she told me she had called on Saturday afternoon, someone answered the phone and just made funny noises, and she thought one of us was joking around. I told her no one was home all day Saturday, everyone was out and didn't get home until well after the time of this call, she must have dialled the wrong number. She said, "That's what I thought, but when I tried it again, the line was busy, so someone had to be home because they were on the phone!" And then the coin dropped. I told her about the flashing light, and what must have happened: "Dogberry answered the phone and apparently did his best to have a conversation with you." At that, she was quite tickled, and often told the story about "the time she called long distance and talked to the cat."

[Dianaww]

Thanks Patti Teddy and I send love and good wishes to you and Tipper too, we hope it won't turn out to be cancer the first needle aspirates were clear, but they wanted to repeat them in case the spleen nodule is changing.

We are only 3-4 miles from the Vet but 60 miles from the Vet Hospital he was in seeing the specialist.

I do hope you get the Fax sorted out soon, what a pain it is for you when you need to use it.

Love to you and Tipper from us here x

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
I'm finally getting caught up on posts. Tipper's new dose will be close to Trixie's...she's 28mg a day but I do an equal split of 14mg. It's been working pretty well for us lately. I will have to schedule the test though, Trixie's prescripts need renewals. We just started on my last 30 days of meds and I don't want to cut it too close. I hate to have to take her to the vet because she gets so worked up and I know the symptoms will be showing that day.
I think Trixie is pretty well controlled now, but I will be anxious to see her numbers. Her water intake has been pretty normal the last few weeks, sometimes I can't believe she is only drinking 15-16 oz. Some days it's a bit more but now it's mostly under 20oz. which is a huge improvement.
I was reading your posts about the red blood cell stuff...I will have to re-read again, don't think I understood everything.
Funny about the storms...Trixie was never bothered by thunder/lighting when she was younger..I think after she was about 5yrs old we started to see a frightened reaction to thunder storms. That grew into being afraid of noisy wind and heavy rain too..guess she hears that and thinks thunder is on the way.
We should be over with thunder storms for a bit now, thankfully. It's been quite chilly here too..needed gloves these last couple of days. Trixie is loving it and I am too...all the dogs in the park have been really frisky with the cold breeze blowing, it's great!
Hope the new dose will help with Tipper's appetite. Even though Trixie's seems controlled she is always hungry.
Thank you for all your messages whilst I was off the boards. I really appreciate your thoughts.

Barbara

[labblab]

Hi again, Patti. I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you, but I was having computer access problems yesterday. I wish I could tell you whether or not those lab elevations are high enough to warrant concern, but I just don't know. I believe you will have to rely on the opinion of the IMS to tell you. From that excerpt in the Merck Manual, it sounds as though "mild" elevations in RBCs are not all that surprising in a Cushdog. As to whether or not Tipper's counts would be considered severe enough to warrant treatment, I just do not know. But I will be really interested to see what the IMS has to say. I am so sorry you are having these communication problems when you are so anxious to hear back yourself!

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I have been researching my brains out about this Reticulocyte stuff with Tipper. It all goes back to the same cause, I have found nothing else it could be. All of her HGB's for the last 9 blood work ups have been high. Normal is 12-18 her lowest was 18.2 and the highest was 20.2 they are mostly closer to the 20.2 mark. Her HCT was elevated the last 5 times ,normal is 37-55 her lowest was 55.6 and the highest was 59.5, they were mostly closer to this reading. There are three different kinds of this disease from what I can see.
Transient Polycythemia/ Erythrocytosis- which is when they are scared of something the spleen contracts and injects RBC's into circulation in response to epinephrine.
Absolute Polycythemia/ Erthrocytosis- Has three sub headings
Primary- A disease of unknown cause where RBC is dramatically increased but EPO is low or normal.
Secondary- Develops from excessive production of EPO- in severe pulmonary disease, tumors of the kidneys, renal disorders.
Endocrinopothy- associated- from hormones, cortisol, androgen, thyroxine, growth hormone that stimulate erythropoiesis. This is in dogs with adrenocortical hyperactivity.
The Polycythemia Vera- Can be caused by Gastroenteritis or a bone marrow disorder.

Basically the only help I have found to help this situation is removing some blood and they are then put on a high dose of hydroxyurea therapy. This basically slows down the production of red blood cells. Her Reticulocyte count is high because she is making too many red blood cells.
Tipper has in the past had Gastroenteritis at times thru the last 4-5 years. She also has a heart murmur from valve leakage. So these are two things stated above. She also has Cushings which is a third thing mentioned. This can cause bleeding in the eyes like she had. I am positive she has this, but I am conflicted if it is Absolute , or secondary which involves endocrinology. I am leaning towards secondary. At any rate I believe either one of these are treated the same. I am not sure how safe this drug is they use, I could not find anything bad about it. I know it is used in people with sickle cell. From the scale she is currently in the upper mild range sometimes going into moderate. Even tho this says mild range it was enough to cause bleeding to her blood vessels in the eyes. I don't want this to go any further. I don't know if I should treat it now or wait and see if it elevates, as I am not keen on having some of her blood removed as I am scared of complications. I am sending this information to Dr. Bruyette in California. He has helped me with a lot of this Cushings stuff to date, and about her adrenal tumor. I value his opinion as he is the expert in this Cushings disease. I know this is said to be a serious situation in all I have read so I must find out what to do here or I am afraid of the consequences. Tipper was very restless last nite and she is sleeping again already this morning. tiredness is associated with this and she has been sleeping a lot and not wanting to walk as much with the exception of yesterday. I am hoping her new dose of Trilostane is here today as I know she is not controlled properly. I am hoping this helps with that problem. I heard from the phone company once yesterday, and the problem is still not fixed. I need to fax some things I charted Tipper's blood work for the IMS and cannot fax it. I am getting really disgusted with this situation real fast. I don't know if they will be working today or not, but I need this problem solved. I will let everyone know what Dr. Bruyette's opinion is. Blessings
Patti

[Woodydog]

Patti I can,t begin to understand what any of that means as I don,t have a cush pup but what I do understand is the love you have for Tipper. I also do know that you will do whatever is best for Tipper. Please try and relax I know its easy said that done but take care of yourself.

Love and licks

Tracy & Woody

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

Dr. Bruyette has gotten back to you fairly quickly in the past, right?
Try to hang in there.

[scoora]

Patti, Hugs and prayers for you and Tipper.

[Dianaww]

PATTI Teddys red blood cells have been too high for some months,

His retic is high (I think that is the Reticulocyte count ) and his HB is high too.

His spleen nodule seems to be connected to it, I am not sure.

He too has a leaky heart valve, and his gastric issues, and the spleen nodule as you know.

His red blood volume is also too high, I don't know why either, on top of this as you know his whites were low for 3 months.

So I totally understand the worry this brings, and hope you can get to the bottom of it.

I intent to keep trying too.

Much Love Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper slept ok last nite. Her 7mg dose of Trilostane came and I gave it to her at 5:00pm. It is too early to see if it worked but in a few days I should know. She was really hungry last nite. I have cut her food a tad to try and get additional weight off of her. She walked several times yesterday, but as soon as she hits the house , down on the floor she goes and passes out. This is very unlike her to not be really active. I know it is the RBC situation. Valerie, Dr. Bruyette has been wonderful at getting back to ma quickly in the past, but this time instead of emailing him I faxed the things along with her blood chart. He may not be in the office to get it. I am going to shoot him an email today to let him know it is there so it is not overlooked by anyone. Yesterday I spent all morning writing my vet, IMS and Dr. Bruyette letters and making blood charts so they could see the whole picture. I never quit anything and I will not quit working to help my baby. Today I will research again to see if there is anything I missed. Tipper has walked, and I have to go to the store for a bit today. My elderly neighbor who is a widower is really sick and shut in. I have been making him supper for 4 days now, I don't go in but just hand it in the door, I do not want to get it. I need a few things to make supper so I will get the sitter and hurry there and back. It is warmer here today and I see next week we are to get to 60. It rained all nite here. I gave Tipper some of the meds I have to dry up fluid in her nose and throat, I can hear her swallowing fluid drainage or mucus again. I will see if this makes a difference. Hope everyone is having a good weekend with their babies. Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Wow! You should work for the vets Patti :-)
You'd make an awesome tech!

I hope that he responds soon.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am up and at it already this morning. Dr. Bruyette wants all of Tipper's blood work faxed to him so he can see the whole picture.
I have just called my vet's as soon as they opened to ask them to fax all of this to him. The tech was less than enthusiastic about doing this. I hope the attitude goes away as I have been at this for about a week now, and think that is the least they can do to help me. I followed up this phone call with a letter faxed to my vet in case I have any problems I want him to know this is important. Called the vet hospital in Pittsburgh yesterday and they got the fax, that I drove 30 miles to send to them because the phone company still ahs yet to fix my problem here. I am calling tomorrow to make sure the IMS got the letter I sent her also. She has all the information now to really look at this, so does my vet and Dr. Bruyette who is a sweetheart is also on the case. I will get my dog help, not matter what stands in my way. I have another issue I am dealing with at the same time. Elvis has had sever diarrhea since his beak and nail trim last week. I am giving him stuff to help it, but emailed the vet who sees him. He is out of Chicago and is traveling so gave me his cell number to call this morning. I do not think I have any Baytril on hand to give him. Tipper slept well last nite, but is already laying on the floor resting form her walk. This is very unlike her. She is on the go all the time. It is very cold here in the high 20's with a thick blanket of frost on the ground. I am hoping to hear something back from Dr. Bruyette early this week. I took my neighbor who is sick his dinner again last nite, and he said he is better and is going to get up and out of the house today. That was good news. I got Tipper and Toby Halloween outfits yesterday when I ran to the store. Toby is the cutest Caterpillar, and Tipper is a Lady bug. I hope Tipper feels like wearing her outfit Friday as she goes for laser therapy as the vets office there will surely enjoy it. I will take pictures and post them. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti, isn't Dr. Bruyette just a wonder. I love that he responds so readily to your emails.

Poor Elvis. I wonder if he got all upset and it gave him a bit of tummy trouble.

That will be so cute to see pictures of Tipper and Toby in their halloween outfits. I'm sure they are just darling.

Do you get any kids coming through doing trick or treating?

Hope Tipper perks up a bit later today. Sometimes when it is cold after a walk, Molly will have a nap that can last all morning if it is cold and dark.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Sassy Sung]

So sorry about your baby. This is all new to me also. Sassy has always snored some, but more so over the last few months. She has gained weight and her stomach is swollen, so I assumed that was the cause of the more frequent and louder snoring. Now that she is blind all she wants to do is sleep. It breaks my heart. I know that when I gain weight I have a harder time breathing. She also yelps in her sleep a lot like she is chasing rabbits or something. I am just starting this journey of atypical cushings and really can't be a lot of help as far as advice. What I can be is an understander for the love for your dog. My husband died unexpected with a massive heart attack at 46 and Sassy was the only normal in my life. The kids all live out of state and she was the one I came home to. She needed me and I needed her and because of that she got me through one of the hardest times of my life. Prayers going up for you and Tipper.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Nothing from Dr. Bruyette yet, but he is looking at a lot of blood work so it may take him a few days. I have a lot of faith in him, he has been an ardent supporter of Tipper and I and I know he will come thru with a well thought out answer for me. I am noticing Tipper sleeping better and not moving around the bed as much. I don't want to jinx it, but could it be the new nite dose of 7mg instead of 5. It's funny that 2mg could make that much difference. She has not appeared to be as hungry at 6pm either. I am hoping and praying this does the trick for her. Yesterday her holy water came from Lourdes. I am putting some on her every day, as we can use all the divine intervention we can get. She played ball yesterday for a while and seemed to have some xtra energy, which is a good thing. My neighbor is all better so I don't have to hurry and run over there with food for him every nite. Poor thing is 78 and has diabetes etc. so I needed to help him out while he was sick. I know what it is like to have no one to help you. I am so thankful for the cold weather. At least Tipper is not in the closet worrying about a storm and driving her RBC's even higher. I am glad for this break from bad storms too. I have to take Tipper in the car today over to see the llamas because I have a kid coming to blow all my leaves out of the gutters and the noise and walking on the roof would send her into another bad episode with spleen reactions of RBC's. I will take both dogs in the car for an hour or so, it will be good for them both. The phone company called me and they found out it is the phone system at the Veterinary Hospital that is having problems taking my calls. They talked to the IT people there yesterday and are trying to get this straightened out for me. After all this now they find out it is the animal hospital. The hospital said they are having trouble getting calls from a few different states. I think they better get on it then! I am hoping to hear some news about Tipper soon the waiting is what gets to you. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Just wanted to say that I miss Mel, I drew a lot of strength form her. I know she is busy working and probably reading the posts, but too busy to reply. I am hoping Judi has a wonderful cruise, and gets some much needed R&R. I miss them both. Hope Judi stays safe on her vacation.
Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I just heard from Dr. Bruyette. He ahs gone all over Tipper's blood work. He said the red blood cell count is quite abnormal and recommends the following
Blood Gas analysis to make sure oxygen levels are normal,
An Echocardiogram to rule out a right to left shunt
If those are normal- Bone marrow exam to make sure this is not a cancer affecting the red blood cells.
This was enough to make me cry right off the bat, but I read most of this when researching her condition and knew these were possibilities outlined under the Absolute and secondary Enthrocytosis I spoke of. I knew she had this problem, now it is just a matter of identifying which, and I pray it is not the latter. It's one thing to read it and know you are right about what your dog has, and another for a well respected vet to confirm it. I am really wearing down with all this, but will continue on for my baby. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

I am sorry Patti, YOU KNOW I UNDERSTAND so many of these are similar to what Teddy has faced, he has two heart issues, and possible bone marrow cancer. We decided not to do the bone marrow biopsy, although his specialist didn't want us to do it yet, he wanted another biopsy of the spleen nodule.

I know how tired and worn down you are, I was very very ill with it all a few weeks ago, but you find the strength somewhere, I will be thinking of you all the time & of course Miss Tipper !

Much love Diana & Teddy x

[labblab]

Patti, I am so sorry Dr. Bruyette thinks Tipper's levels are high enough to be a concern. But at least now you have a plan of action to get to the bottom of this. I know that is little consolation right now. But it still may turn out to be a problem that is treatable, and that would be huge relief to you for so many reasons. I do believe it will be better to know than to be tortured with the worry of the unknown. So the sooner the better, and we'll all be here right beside you two girls.

Sending big hugs,
Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

Marianne is absolutely right. Dr. B delivered the news that I hoped I would never get with Buddy, but am very grateful for. It helped me plan a course of action that was all about Buddy's needs and not mine. The only way that can be done is by knowing the facts, good and bad. I was given the gift of giving Buddy mobility a little longer and keeping him comfortable, knowing that he would decline at a faster rate. It was the right decision for Buddy, which I wouldn't have been able to make without Dr. B's information. I used his expertise to educate my vet and to get neurosurgeon support for a course of treatment.

We don't always get good news. What matters the most is being able to put whatever news we are given to work toward a plan of action. You are great at that Patti. Continue to gather as much information as you can. You will do the right thing for your sweet girl. I am sure of it. xxxx

[goldengirl88]

He Everyone:
You are all my wonderful angels coming to the rescue. Dr. Bruyette has been with me throughout this and I could never thank him enough. He has never ever once asked me for a dime. I am so grateful to him I can't even express it. So the little voice inside me that said keep going Patti don't listen to the other vets was right. I have already started a plan of action. First off Tipper did have an echocardiogram, I called the hospital and they told me a shunt would have shown up on that, so we can cross that off the list. So there are 2 left, lack of oxygen, which could be a high possibility since she has tracheal issues and wheezes at nite or when laying down. I have gotten in touch with someone at the hospital at Pittsburgh as my vet does not have a machine to calibrate blood gases. I asked that she give all this info to my IMS and that I need an appointment asap for blood gases to be checked. The third of cancer I don't want to go there yet until the blood gases are checked. If she needs oxygen therapy I will need either an incubator or have to have someone help me make one. I am already planning things and my IMS better get in touch with me tomorrow or I will have my vet call to get me an appointment to get this done. I hate like heck to take her back to that hospital because of the stress, but I must eliminate these possibilities. Dr. Bruyette said I was right about the Reticulocytes so I guess my vet is wrong again. but I don't care about that I need to get into action now and help my girl, I love her more than anything, and I will get her help no matter what. I am going to email Dr. Bruyette back again. Maybe someday I would get to meet him and thank him for all he has helped me with. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I just wrote Dr. B an email and Kathy I told him about you going to him with Buddy. I am sure he will write back and tell me he remembers it all, he is brilliant. Some day I will come back out to California and I will definitely stop and meet Dr. B. in person. Maybe swing by and see Miss Kathy & Rosie too. Thank you all for understanding this dilemma, it is very stressful, but I am still upright and functioning. Kathy I am sorry your year at school is so challenging this year. I hope for your sake it gets easier soon. Blessings to you all.
Patti

[Mel-Tia]

Hello there

I have indeed been reading along, I thought I should post today though after reading the update from Dr B. Your instincts were obviously spot on again Patti, it's a good job you never take your blinking vets word for anything

I do hope you get a plan sorted out soon, in the meantime sending you lots of love and strength. I asked Tia to look out for her when she went for her last scan and was elated for you that the tumour hadn't grown, I will ask my little girl to watch over yours again tonight

Big hugs to you and kisses to Tipper the Ripper

Love
Mel
Xxxxxx

[molly muffin]

Patti, your perseverance has once again paid off in Tippers favor. Whatever is going on, as Kathy said, now you can make an action plan and move forward. Imagine if you had done nothing and just relied on the vets all along, why, it is unspeakable.

Mel, so glad to see you. Hope works slows down some for you soon. I hate that being run ragged feeling and no real time to yourself to just wind down.

hugs patti! You're on the right track
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Patti, Prayers and hugs to you and Tipper.

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

as frightening as the possibilities are, you know that you're helpless to form a real course of action without them. I'll be praying that it is not cancer and that something can be done to help Tipper.

HUGS

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am still crying from my vet visit this morning. When I took Tipper in for her blood pressure the techs all came out together and clapped for me. I was so taken back and did not know what hey were doing. They said that they just wanted to support me with my constant never give up attitude. They said I am the only person who never accepts no and that keeps on going under the most adverse conditions, so they think I deserve a standing ovation. The vet came in early today during this, and said I am the most educated pet owner he has ever had and said I deserve for my dog to live more than anyone else he knows. I am still crying as I type this as I am just an ordinary person who love of their dog has no bounds, I am nothing special that needs people clapping for me, but being recognized for the love of my dog is good enough for me.
That being said Tipper's blood pressure was good, but she gained 5 ounces!!! I am really struggling with this, but I will conquer this problem. Last nit Tipper was very noisy. It is connected to her swallowing so much and sticking her tongue out I know it is. I talked to my vet at length as her had no patients this morning. He said I made the right call on the reticulocytes and he would definitely go along with Dr. B.'s opinion. The IMS has yet to get in touch with me. I told my vet I feel even though Tipper had no apparent clinical signs of low oxygen that last nite she struggled and wheezed, and I am putting a stop to her having to struggle. I told him I am making her crate into an oxygen tent . I asked if I am going to need and RX for the oxygen or not, he offered to check and see if they have an extra portable oxygen generator I could use. It will have to have really long tubing, as she will not be able to tolerate any amount of loud noise coming from the machine, so I could put it in my bathroom, shut the door and run the tubing under the door to alleviate the noise. I am going to go to Home Depot and get some plexi glass and get it attached on all parts of her cage. She will get oxygen, but this some cracks will allow her carbon dioxide output to escape. If I have to I will hold a mask on her for periods of time during the day. I could make one out of a plastic throw away cup. I am not going out to get the supplies today as I am waiting on the IMS and I need to get Tipper an appointment for her blood gases. At least I have that much thought out. She walked once when we came home. I am wondering if she has low oxygen if this is the reason she is not wanting to exercise much?? Makes sense to me. I hope to have the oxygen and the crate done by in the next couple days. If I can get the oxygen here before the crate is done I will use a mask temporarily. Time is of the essence with this project. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Patti, that is awesome that they all applauded you. It doesn't hurt to have some recognition sometimes of all you are going through.

Now, about this pexiglass If for any reason the oxygen doesn't work right or doesn't completely go in, you want to make sure that she does have some way to get air. I guess the slits for carbon escaping would work, but that would be my worry probably. Are you planning on just giving her treatments and you would be there with her the entire time or what?

I want to make sure that I understand what the plan is. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
I have a huge King Size bed with one of those mattresses made of foam that do not transfer motion. So my plan is to put her crate on the bed bedside me so I can see her, and hear her during the nite. There will be slits where the plexi glass cannot meet so her carbon dioxide will go out there, and if something happened she would have an air source. I would never put her in it if I was not right there I am so paranoid with her. The slits mean she just won't get 100% of the oxygen, maybe 80-90%. I will have all the bugs worked out of this before she steps her little paws into it. To buy one is ridiculously expensive and I cannot afford it, so I know I can make her one. I am waiting for the vet to call and tell me if he can get me the generator. If not I will have to rent one. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Well, if anyone deserves applause you certainly do for your perseverance in following through with this. I'm very glad the vet recognized it, too.

Best of luck with the O2 chamber! I hope it works great and provides her some relief!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Roxee's Dad]

Oh my gosh, you make us so proud of you. I join the rest in giving you a standing ovation. When we say you are your dogs only voice and advocate.... you are a shining example !!!

[doxiesrock912]

That's awesome Patti!!!!!

What about plexi glass only on 2/3 of the crate? I also worry if something goes wrong during the night.

[My sweet Ginger]

Oh, Patti,
You made me cry again (happy cry) and I also join the rest for a standing ovation. I don't doubt one bit when the Dr. said what he said. You put me to shame. I really hope it will work and give Tipper much deserved relief. That poor baby can use a break. Song. :)

[carolyn]

Tippers Mom,

I'm new at this too. I took the day off work today just to stay home with my precious Tootsie because I'm so worried about her. She has also been snoring since she has been taking Veroryl. Another concern is her heavy breathing. Looks like we're in this together.

[scoora]

Patti, That's wonderful that the techs and the vet recognize how hard you are working at helping your Tipper. You deserve it. You are amazing.
I hope the oxygen chamber works out for Tipper.

[Concernedmom]

Hi Patti
I just wanted to say that my beautiful cavalier had major heart problems and in order for him to come home from the hospital he needed oxygen. Had no clue what we were going to do. My husband spoke to the doctors and he made an oxygen cage just like you're doing. We rented the portable floor concentrator from the medical supply store. My husband just took Saran Wrap and wrapped the cage then duct taped it to make sure there were no holes. We had one of those kennel cages. We would put him in it ( he knew it as his bed because he slept in it from puppyhood) shut the front door. The flexible tubing ran from a small opening in the front gate to the concentrator then you turn on the oxygen. We would keep it on all night and only used it during the day when he needed it. It worked out wonderful. I have to say though it was expensive to rent. I think I have pictures of the cage I can post. We had to make something quick because we had no idea when we picked him up from the hospital he would need oxygen. This was the best we came up with. The doctors were so impressed as no one had ever made one as far as they knew. This was the cardiology dept. I just wanted you to know you are not alone in this. If I can find my pics I'll send them. Oh before I forget for the mask oxygen. We took one of those cones the dogs hate wrapped opening with Saran Wrap stuck the flexible tubing somewhere in the collar and it worked. As long as they get oxygen. That's the main thing. You don't have to be too picky about 100%. We didn't need to use this often only in emergency.
It sounds like you're building a great looking oxygen tent for Tipper. You are a wonderful mom. Hugs. T

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Wow..how amazing and wonderful that you got such a reaction at the vets office!! It must have made you feel so good that they recognized all you do for Tipper and your other pets.
It sounds like the new dose is helping so far, it is pretty interesting that just 2 mg more can make a difference but I too have seen that happen.
So, the oxygen tenting is a great idea. It will be so interesting to hear if you see some changes right away. She might have more energy once she's getting more oxygen.
The colder weather is such a welcome change...we have thunder storms in the forecast for Friday though...and temps close to 70. yuck. That sounds too warm for Trixie but hopefully it's just for a day.
I hope you get the oxygen crate all figured out so that you can Tipper going on that. Can't wait to hear how it works out.

Barbara

[Mel-Tia]

Seems like you have had a breakthrough at that vets office, this should make both your lives easier. You should be proud of yourself.

Loving that you are tackling the Chamber for her, maybe Leslie has some tips as she is our resident handy woman :)

Sending you a bug hug and kisses for sweet Tipper

Mel
Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a pretty good nite. It started to rain here last nite and we are in for more, possibly storms and wind. I am praying because of her condition that there is n thunder. Last nite Tipper slept so close to me , like she used to. Made me feel great, but she only gives me a few inches to sleep on. I did not dare move even though I was really cramped because I just wanted her to rest peacefully. I got a crazy email last nite with a file attached that I could not open. I called the vet hospital to see if it was the secretary or Tipper's Dr. The secretary said no, but that she had spoken to Tipper's IMS and that she is having a meeting with Tipper's eye Dr. in light of the information I found and sent to her on these Reticulocytes. It sounds to me like she does believe me, or she would not be consulting with the eye Dr. My vet told me yesterday he talks to another vet who had to take blood out of a dog for this problem on a regular basis and that the dog was so scarred from it that they could not find a place to get more out. I pray that is not going to be the case for Tipper. I am really scared as to what all this will bring, but I know I must face it. My vet's girl who orders all the meds is currently tracking down a portable Oxygen generator for Tipper I should know if they can get one today or tomorrow. I am working at the enclosure so it is ready to go. I love the cone idea, but Tipper cannot have anything around her neck because of her trachea or that would be great for her. If anyone else thinks of anything let me know please. I also thought about the idea of a plexi glass box with no bottom that I could sit right over top of her on the bed. I could have some holes in it, and something underneath the bottom edges so some air can flow under, maybe prop it up with a towel? Tipper is most used to sleeping in my bed and will be less apprehensive in this thing if it is more of what she normally does. How about some opinions on the box before I go thru with the final plans?? I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you everyone for your help as I sure need it. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Personally, Squirt would find this so stressful that I would not want her to learn to associate the stress of the box with the bed where she usually feels the most safe and secure. I would instead fix a crate on the floor for the O2 treatment and let that be it's only purpose....unless she chose to go in there on her own, and I would leave the door open so she could. I would want her to have at least one spot, the bed, where she knew she could simply be Squirt and not have to worry about some weird thing trapping her there.

It seems to me if the box is sealed well enough the mask might not be necessary but I'm not sure. If I could bypass that stressor, I certainly would. I would put the crate where she could see the activity in the house if she wished while taking the treatment and do my best to carry on with things, not paying much attention to her at all. Speak on occasion, give her a treat from time to time, but not sit with her, stare at her, fret over her, etc. while she was in the crate. I would not want her to associate the treatment with increased stress from me, either, but would do my best to make this seem as nothing more than how things work now - no big deal for her or for me. If she's not used to being crated, she's gonna be stressed for a few days but should settle down in time. ALWAYS give her a treat when she goes in for any reason, even if it's just to explore at first. Try to get her to associate the crate with things she likes, not an event that causes stress for anyone.

That doesn't sound good to me that scar tissue from the blood drains reach the point they can no longer do the drains! :eek::eek::eek: What has happened to the blood flow in those areas? Is that pup really in trouble now from veins that are clogged with scar tissue? Dose that increase the risk that some of that will break off and act like a clot? Does that increase the stress on the heart? How much quality time did all those drains give that pup - note the quality time - between hospital stays, vet visits, stabs and jabs, ect.? Man, I would really, really, really have to weigh the pros and cons of this procedure very carefully. The more I hear about it, the more convinced I am that my first reaction for Squirt is correct - no way I would put her through this. I would rather see her dancing down the halls for a short while longer than see her stressed to no end for a longer time. But Squirt is a few years older than Tipper so your perspective is a bit different than mine. I fought as hard as I could for many years...til it came time to let her be a dog as much as possible for as long as possible. ;)

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
I so agree with all you have said, and I am leaning towards closing in the crate as she goes in it at times during the nite anyway. She is not stressed from being in it. I think I will leave it on the floor after reading your post, as always you came through with the wisdom. She does not need the mask on in the cage, just if she would need some oxygen in the day I could hold a cup and let her breathe it in. She would just be in the crate at nite sleeping with the oxygen on. the last two nite I noticed her doing that swallowing thing all the time and it is connected to this somehow but I cannot connect the dots yet. She is therefore noisier and struggling to breathe more the last 2 nites. I will have to put the machine in my bathroom and close the door and run the tubing under the door as she is so scared of noise and there is noise that comes off of the concentrator. I called a rental place they are going to get back to me about costs to rent one, if my vets office doesn't come thru with one. I know it is expensive so I hope the vet comes thru, as I cannot afford all I am doing now. I will go without something else if I have to in order to get it for her. They put a pulse ox at my request on her Wed. at the vets and it was 100%. I am hoping there is a difference between a pulse ox and and blood gases. If not that would point to maybe a cancer. I am scared to death, but I am still trying my best to help her any way possible. I did not ask the vet particulars on that other dog, but it made me sick to think of it. What I had read was they remove blood initially and then put them on meds so it does not happen again, but they have to have blood tests while on the meds. that sounds bad , but not as bad as the other dogs dilemma of constant removal of blood in order to live. I would definitely say no to that. Thank You for you help, I can always count on you. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

Patti

I know this is all a dilemma for you and I know how scared you are about the possibility of cancer, as you know I am with Teddy, he could easily have it. I know it hurts like crazy.

But whatever the future holds, whatever the diagnosis is you are doing all you can for Tipper and couldn't do more, and you should be proud of yourself for that, I for one applaud you.

Much Love

Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Wow I just got rocked! I am waiting for the vets to see if they can come up with the oxygen concentrator, so I though I better check a rental place in case the vets can't find one. They want 169.00 a month to rent one.That blew my socks off. I can buy a new one for around 300.00. I don't have this money to spend. So if the vets office cannot get me one to use, then some of the bills are not getting paid. That is the only way I can do it. I took Tipper into Home Depot with me and got the stuff for to convert her crate into an oxygen tent. All the girls wanted to per her, she had her Lady Bug Halloween outfit one. I also took her to the laser therapy today, and they were taking pictures of her with her outfit on. They made a big fuss over her and she got fed up and showed her teeth. It was too funny cause she sort of scrunches her nose when she does it and it is too cute. I am going to try the vets again. I will let you know my progress. I have to go and give Elvis a liquid antibiotic the vet called in for him. We went tot eh Giant Eagle drive thru and you have to talk to the them on through a window and shout, she kept asking who the RX was for and I kept shouting Elvis until everyone turned around and stared at me. She laughed and so did I. He will probably try to spit it everywhere if I know him. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Now that's funny! :p I can just hear it - "Who's this for?"

"Elvis!"

"Who?!"

"ELVIS!"

:p:D:p

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I just heard back from the IMS and she sent me a very lengthy report on Tipper after consulting with her eye Dr. I am going to narrow it down to the main points of concern.
1.) There is absolutely no evidence of as shunt in her heart. With the exception of tiny leakage her heart is strong and functioning well.
2.) Bone marrow cancer is most unlikely because in this type of cancer multiple cell lines are affected and hers are not. There has never been found any circulating cancer cells in any of her blood work.
3.) Causes of high hematocrit can be from a cancer process in the kidneys. There was nothing found on her kidneys during the ultra sound to suggest this. This hematocrit is a concern if it reaches 65-75% as it will sludge the blood, then phlebotomy and meds are used. This process does have inherent risks as when you remove red blood cells the cardiovascular system is compromised.
4.) She has a number of patients that have high hematocrit and reticulocytes. They are healthy and no underlying cause has been found.
She said we can check her blood gases, as the pulse ox is not the same as the blood gases which shows more of the oxygenation. They can also do an aspirate of her bone marrow while she is there and the eye Dr. can check her at the same time plus the cardiologist.
I am wanting some opinions on all of this. Tipper has had it with these vet visits. When we went for laser therapy she was really annoyed to the point of getting nasty.
If in fact all the things Dr. Bruyette said he would check, check out according to her my first instinct is to not trust anyone. My second is to get the oxygen, so a blood test after using it for a month and see if that has made a difference in her numbers. If she is not in immediate danger this would be the least stressful to her. I am not totally agreeing with the IMS opinion either. I heard the aspirate for bone marrow is painful and I cannot think of her in that hospital all day long, she would be out of her mind with stress. If it would come back positive, I would more than likely not treat her anyway. The thing with the kidneys does worry me cause I read in depth about this days ago. So my plan is to take her to the eye Dr. for her check up and the cardiologist sees her at the same time. If the IMS wants to pop in and see her fine. No all day marathon, and no bone marrow aspirate or blood gases. If I find on her next blood panel elevations again, I will then opt for blood gases. So for right now I am hunting down oxygen concentrators and plan to give her oxygen at nite, and sometime in the day. I will schedule a blood panel in 30 days after starting the oxygen. I believe the 7mg has done the trick for Tipper at nite, so I am glad I stuck to my decision on the total of 27 instead of the 30 that put her too low the last time. Also I have to say this IMS did not ask for a dime from me, and I know how much time this took for her to compile a 2 page in depth document. I applaud her for that, and am very grateful for the help. Tipper really wheezed last nite and it started pouring very hard with lots of wind. She started around 4 o'clock with gastro symptoms. I had to take her out and give her some food. It finally stopped about a half and hour later. I need to call that gal at the vets office , the one looking for the oxygen concentrator for me. I need to talk to her in person as I think my vet is up to his old tricks again to gouge me. The one tech called me last nite and said they found a few machines but they are so expensive. I said " He told me he had he thought two of these in another office and he would loan me one." She said oh he never told us that. They were wanting to sell me a cage and machine- so he could make more money. I am calling her and tell he exactly what he said to me. I will bite the bullet and buy one if they have no loaners. After all this he is still trying to stiff me. So I will post later when I get all this straightened out. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

Patti, for what it's worth, I don't think it's a good idea to move forward with the oxygen therapy unless you first have Tipper's blood gases checked to see whether her own level is low. We usually think of oxygen as something benign, but apparently too much oxygen is not necessarily a good thing. I just now quickly found this article and it relates to humans, but I'm guessing the same issues apply for animals as well:

http://www.ems1.com/columnists/mike-mcevoy/articles/1308955-Can-oxygen-hurt/

It does seem to me as though your IMS's comments are reasonable. It doesn't sound as though she disagrees with Dr. Bruyette's suggestons -- it's just that she has some additional info re: Tipper's previous testing to which he was not privy.

I understand why you don't want to do a bone marrow on Tipper. I wouldn't, either. But if you are serious about the supplemental oxygen, I really think you should go forward with the blood gas testing beforehand in order to make sure Tipper really needs it. You don't want to risk harming her by raising the oxygen level too high.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
I am glad you emailed me this information about the oxygen. I asked my vet about that and he said it could do no harm! Well I have learned never to trust him long before this. Do you think there is that much difference between a pulse ox measurement and blood gases? If not I am not going to subject her to it. The pulse ox said her O2 was good. I am so glad I come on here all the time before doing anything. Hope this is a lesson to everyone. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

1) There is absolutely no evidence of as shunt in her heart. With the exception of tiny leakage her heart is strong and functioning well.

Teddy has also a leak, in his Mitral heart valve, also he does have irregular arrhythmia's and a loud vagal heart tone.

2.) Bone marrow cancer is most unlikely because in this type of cancer multiple cell lines are affected and hers are not. There has never been found any circulating cancer cells in any of her blood work.

This is what I have learnt, Usually the white cells are down, then the platelets, then other reds, Teddy's white were down for three months PLUS and his reds are too high like Tipper, although his platelets were low end of normal.

3.) Causes of high hematocrit can be from a cancer process in the kidneys. There was nothing found on her kidneys during the ultra sound to suggest this. This hematocrit is a concern if it reaches 65-75% as it will sludge the blood, then phlebotomy and meds are used. This process does have inherent risks as when you remove red blood cells the cardiovascular system is compromised.

I guess if you have blood removed you are altering the volume and you don't want to leave less blood that is more sludgy as I guess * and it is a guess * it could increase risk of clotting.

I HAVE BLOOD CLOTTING PROBLEMS and do understand a tiny bit, but not as much as your experts where it is in an animal.


high hematocrit and a cancer in kidneys, Like Tipper they did not tell me they saw anything in Teddy's kidneys, only that they are the SMALL SIZE of normal the kidneys themselves.

He does have a small amount of creatinine in his urine and higher urea in his blood, but not a lot of either, but I have been told he may have the START of some kidney failure.

He is not drinking enough still, and has had TWO ACCIDENTS in the house, in the past 10 days which he NEVER does?


BLOOD GASES and OXY meter I agree there, as I have had my blood gases done TWICE they take the blood out of an artery in a human, I don't know about a dog?

A bone marrow aspirate would show one way or the other, as you know we reached this with Teddy shall we or not, we choice not to, as he has had enough. But that is NOT TO SAY you shouldn't have one done on Tipper, it is down to how you feel.

We were tempted, but after the way he came home from one night away and a sedation, we said NO to another ultrasound and NO to bone marrow biopsy.

But you may feel totally differently to us Patti.

But you do say the same as us if something was found in the marrow you wouldn't treat it anyway, and nor would we. So you have to ask if it is worth it, it does hurt them, I am told.

Also we were told Teddy would need a GA to have it done too. He is too ill to risk a GA for his teeth to be cleaned, so why would we risk it for a bone marrow biopsy that we wouldn't treat if it were cancer, as it buys a short time, and what do they go through to get a bit more time with us?


I know that blood gases and Oxy meter will be different they are with me, but in my layman's in-experienced humble opinion, I wonder this, if Tippers oxygen was very bad would the OXY test been totally normal? Just a thought, as I don't know.

But all I do know is you and I are in a similar place with what to do next, we both have babies who have had enough of the vets, yet we love them SO MUCH we want to help them. X

[Dianaww]

Patti you mention: hematocrit is a concern if it reaches 65-75%

Teddy hematocrit (HCT) is 66.9% and with his low platlets, where platelets aid clotting and 66.9% HCT that may make it sludgy I am hoping the low platest will help it not to be so likely to clot.

It is a worry X

[Squirt's Mom]

This is the FreshPet I've given Squirt -

http://freshpet.com/product/delifreshchickenformula/

[labblab]

Patti, I'm afraid I don't know how the two different kinds of oxygen testing compare. You can always ask the IMS if she thinks it's safe to go ahead with oxygen without doing the blood testing first. But even if not harmful, I hate to see you go to the effort and expense of the oxygen if it is not warranted for Tipper. Plus, no matter how you set it up, I'm thinking it would still be at least somewhat stressful for Tipper.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am still looking into Tipper's oxygen issues to see if I want to do the blood gases. She has just had so much it is hard to ask any more from her. I feel I do not have the right. I am thinking this all over in my mind and still knowing Dr. Bruyette has tons of experience and said I was right about the cause of the reticulocytes so I need to weigh all this. Knowing Tipper has a heart murmur and added stress on her heart from wheezing at nite, I could not let them take some of her blood she could have a heart attack, although I have heard many vets say dogs do not have heart attacks, I don't believe it. I trust no one at this point and need to make a good judgment call here. I need to think this over for a day or two. Maybe just give Tipper some oxygen here and there??? just so not know yet. I never let go of anything so I will get to the bottom of all this. Blessings
patti

[Concernedmom]

Hi Patti I know you are still undecided about the oxygen so when I saw this on a website I wanted to pass it along.
It talks about just renting the tank and buying a special oxygen mask for dogs. This is what one person said on the website about her experience with oxygen needed for her dog.
My personal experience with Hudson:
Hudson just got his own personal oxygen tank. I didn’t make this decision lightly; at $75-a-month rental, plus special dog oxygen masks at around $20, it's a money crunch. But Hudson is 13 in January, too old (in my opinion) for potentially dangerous surgery.
The oxygen is helping. When Hudson's breathing is labored or his tongue looks bluish, I put the mask on his grizzled muzzle (he doesn’t really mind it), turn it on, and hold it there for a few seconds. It's very simple and, thus far, not needed often.
Keeping an oxygen tank for my dog may be hard to explain to non-dog friends, but if it makes life a bit easier for Hudson and a bit less worrisome for me, it’s worth it. This is the site I got it from.
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/dog-health-breathing-problems
In my opinion I don't think they can get too much oxygen from this type of cage. The vet tells you how much to give. Also every time the door is opened the oxygen concentrations drop to room air level so it's always fluctuating. My dog did very well in the cage. You could really tell a difference after he slept in it all night. But this was prescribed for him when he got out of the hospital due to his congestive heart failure. We rented the oxygen concentrator for $200/month but it was cheaper than getting the tanks by the hours. We started buying 40 hour tanks at $46 then found out that we could rent the oxygen concentrator monthly we were thrilled. During the day I was home and he slept a lot so I just put the cage in the room I was in and just watched him. He was fine with it. After awhile he didn't need it as often then he didn't need it at all. If we had to do it again we would. Actually we never took the cage apart and he passed away in 2009. I'm sure whatever you decide will be the right one for you and Tipper. Good luck. T

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well it would seem Tipper had a good nite. I was not the best Cush mom last nite as I was tired and really slept, so I did not hear too much which scares me. I usually do not sleep like that as I am checking on Tipper. It was really windy yesterday and it is really dark this morning looking like rain. Tipper did walk once this morning already. She seemed to be clingy this morning for some reason. She is usually Miss Independent I'll do everything for myself thank you. Don't know what all that was about. I got a card in the mail from my neighbor who was sick, his daughter. She thanked me for helping her dad when he had the flu. She lives about 2 hours away and works so she could not help him. It was nice of her to send me a card. I am composing a letter to send somehow to the IMS since I still cannot get thru to the hospital. I am gong to ask her opinion on the oxygen also. Since 2 of the 3 people I asked about Tipper's blood work said I am right about the situation with the Reticulocytes I am not ready to let it go. I need to positively know 100% that my girl is safe. I got her this far and I plan on taking her much further. Hope everyone has a good weekend with their babies. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Picture alert everyone. I tried to take so more pictures of the kids in their Halloween outfits on and neither one would comply. But here they are anyway. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Love the pics Patti!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a descent nite. She has been sleeping next to me in the bed since it got cooler. We are to get a cold front today and be in the 30's. I am glad, we have no storms to worry about when winter sets in with the exception of some snow thunder which is rare. I am still going over all the information on Tipper an deciding what to do. I composed a letter to the IMS and put it in the mail yesterday. I should hear back from her by Friday. I want to know based on Tipper's pulse ox readings if she feels that it is necessary for blood gases. I am not putting this dog thru anything she does not absolutely need. Also I had another thought. Since Tipper has trouble at nite breathing and all these tests are done in the day time, could it be her oxygen level is ok in the day, but at nite that is where the problem is??? Any way I will get to the bottom of this like I said. I cut some more out of Tipper's food in another effort to get weight off of her. She has been walking 2-3 times a day also so if she does not drop some ounces there is some kind of problem here. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper slept well, some wheezing though. Both my dogs and cats are having a hard time adjusting to this time change. Tipper and Toby conked out yesterday evening around 6pm, so unfortunately Tipper was hungry and got up before 5am this morning. I am going to try my best to keep them up longer tonite. Now Tipper's food schedule is really screwed up since she ate around 5:15. I am going to have to stretch her lunch out, and supper until we get this back to normal. She is already miserable enough with me cutting more of her food out. This is like a juggling act with all this stuff. It was 28 here last nite and really cold this morning. I guess we are well on the way to those big heating bills. M rescue cat needs some blood work taken as he is on the Ursidiol and has to be checked every 6 months. It will have to be a little longer this time as I have too many bills going out and coming up with Tipper this month. She has her eye Dr. and Cardiologist visits at the end of the month, plus adequan shots coming up. I just need to get another income, but I do not want to take time away from Tipper to work at home. That would make me very unhappy to have to do that. I is a double edged sword. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Patti I had the same issue with the time change! Trixie is so tuned in to her body clock. She always gets up from napping at 10pm, does a shake out and stares at me for her pills and snack. Last night she was just off because of the time. Today she was better than yesterday but I definitely notice a difference with the time change.
Tomorrow we are having an acth test. Ugh. Can't wait for it to be over! Hope Tipper and your others have a good night.

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a good nite last nite. I kept these two dogs up until they couldn't hold their eyes open. Tipper made it to 5:30 this morning so in a few days maybe we will have this time change problem licked. Tomorrow we go for blood pressure. No one has even called me back from the vets office concerning the oxygen concentrator. How soon we forget! So much for the standing O. Every year around this time I get such bad dry skin and it cracks and is painful. It seems to be in the same places every year. It is starting and I have to gob on moisturizer every day. My lips are chapped from November to April. They really can get bad. The dermatologist has had me try so many things, most do not work, and it is painful to even eat with this. I happened upon a tube of Nivea Smoothness I the drug store. I thought what the heck. It is wonderful and has prevented the chapping so far. The tubes are huge, so it is a lot of product. I went back and got 5 more. I keep them everywhere now. I can't believe it has worked so well when nothing else will. Than God I found something, so if any one has this problem try some you will love it. Tipper has had some extra energy with this cold weather, it is just so much better for them. I can't take her out in winter months unless it is above 32 because of her heart condition, and breathing issue. This is just the perfect time of year for her now. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hello Again:
I am having to leave Tipper in my room and stay here in my office as she is bound and determined to get food. Cutting her food back again, and dealing with the time change messing up her eating times as she is getting up early has really got me in a tither today. I hate to see her like this and can't help her. I am waiting until the 5:00 dose of trilostane and then maybe it will get her thru until 6:00 for her food. When I worked the people I worked with used to say our job was harder than a brain surgeons because of the responsibility, let me tell you it was nothing compared to the day in and day out job of handling all this. I know if I was starving and someone would not give me food how I would feel. I hope I can steer clear of her until 5:00 and dose her. This is do hard to watch this baby you love dearly struggle with this. God help us all.
Patti

[Woodydog]

Its horrible watching them think they are being starved, they just don,t understand its for their own good. I hope you manage to stay clear of Tipper till feeding time, I have to admit when Woody gets like this I have on occasion given in oops :p

[molly muffin]

Someone on the facebook page was saying that the vet is giving their dog viagra for heart hypertension and that the dogs breathing got better very quickly.


Marlo was also diagnosis end pulmonary hypertension and placed on Viagra ( it helps the blood vessels in the lungs) and plaviox. I noticed a difference in her breathing after the second dose of viagra

Not at all sure that it would be relevant for Tipper, but thought I'd bring it to your attention if you weren't aware of it. (you might have already looked into that).

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
No I had not heard that, but now will research it. Tipper had a good nite last nite. I can see her becoming uncomfortable certain ways she lays. I think it is all the displacement of her organs etc. from this Cushings, and something may be pressing on something else. I see that as her only discomfort at the time. We were to go for blood pressure this morning, but something came up at the vets and we have to go tomorrow morning. It is going to be 60 something today, and next week go to the 30's and 40's. I do not see any weight dropping off of Tipper and I am really frustrated with this one. This dog is eating practically nothing for her size and still no success. If any one has any ideas other than tying her on a treadmill all day let me know, as I have tried everything and there is no break thru. Last nite in bed I watched the reality show with the Roloff family on their Oregon farm. They had a Mastiff named Rocky for 13 years. He developed a tumor and got very sick. He waited until all the children in the family came home from college break and died. The vet said the cancer would take him fast and in a matter of days he was gone. One morning one of the older kids found him in the rain dead in the yard. I was so overwhelmed I am crying right now typing this. I woke my Tipper up out of a sleep with my crying. I felt terrible this big loyal majestic dog dies alone with no one beside him. It was heartbreaking. I kept looking at my Tipper and I was up most of the nite crying over this dog. It sounds stupid, but it really affected me the way her died, all alone. I am still feeling the afterthoughts of it today. I don't know if any of you saw it, but it crushed me. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

The Viagra post made me giggle. I can just see all these little pups running around with four hour erections! Yes, immature, but funny none the less! :D:D

[goldengirl88]

Kathy:
You are too funny!!

[addy]

Hi Patti,

I hope you and Tipper are adjusting to the time change. Zoe is making it to almost 5am (she was sleeping until six) but she is like Tipper, she cant understand why she has to wait for breakfast and dinner.

Hopefully we will all be adjusted in another week! Cold front is coming through tonite and then probably headed your way. Stay warm.

[molly muffin]

hahaha, that is hilarious Kathy!

The pup put on viagra, also has cushings. (just an FYI)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Jan W.]

I just started reading this thread today and I was a little shocked!! I guess I have not been through it before because it was so long and I don't like getting in on the end of something so started this morning on/off reading and am only on page 40.
Now that I am zeroed in on the starting Cushings treatments, I can do some more concentrating on the other issues and boy - gee whiz!!!! What a ride you have had so far. I also worry about my girl's snoring and she also gags at times and used to gag more at night, but very seldom hear it now at night. She is gagging more when she drinks water. It is a horrible gag sound. It isn't all the time. So I have this in the back of my mind, but not on the front burner yet.
So reading all this to page 40 so far has brought a few things to highlight. Thanks for sharing your trials. Being a nurse, I know that Drs. aren't all knowing but I would rather go to one that admits to it and willing to learn or work with you than one that fluffs their chest out trying to make you think they are all knowing and make mistakes. My vet told me sometime back for me not to feel guilty about going to a specialist as he was very good with it. I don't feel guilty.
I may take a few days to get through all this, but please feel God wrapping his arms around you and your little one. Jan W.

[Jan W.]

Because I haven't read anywhere enough of your thread - just take what I'm about to add as fodder if it doesn't apply to you throw it out. Somewhere I found out that a reticulocyte count can be connected to Addison's disease - not sure if increased or decreased - but what are we doing with our guys on the trilostane---decreasing their cortisol levels which is moving toward Addisons. Just a thought -- not sure if lowering the cortisol could cause an increase or decrease in a reticulocyte count but if it could raise it this would make some sense. Maybe someone younger or with better memory than I can chime in here. Or my dementia may be setting in - not sure.
Also I saw something about pulmonary hypertension and not sure what this has to do with anything, but a co-worker of mine had pulmonary hypertension issues and her Dr. told her that flax seed may be causing some increase in her pulmonary hypertension. Don't know if it had to do with the flax seed or oil or what, or just the type of omega fatty acid. Jan W.

[Concernedmom]

Hi Patti I have not seen that episode yet of the Roloff family dog but every time I would watch it I would see the dog and wonder when the time would come. He looked old and grew up with the kids since they've been on tv. That is so sad that he died alone. I'm not sure if I can watch that episode knowing how it happens. Very sad

I wanted to also let you know the dog I had that had mitral Valve disease was on Viagra and it's very expensive. When you think of Viagra you certainly don't think of helping a dogs breathing. It was one of the last medicines the cardiologist prescribed for him before he died.

[doxiesrock912]

So some of them would be five legged pups :)
I just HAD to throw that in.

Patti, I was at a friend's fixing her computer and she had that episode on. As soon as we realized that Rocky was going to die on that episode we changed the channel. Neither of us was up for watching this. Many animals go off alone to die. It's as if they know how heartbroken their people will be. Cats are especially known for doing this so it is of no fault of the Roloff family. Rocky chose for them not to see him die. I really believe that.

[Concernedmom]

Me again. I was going to ask you what you feed Tipper. She does have a heart problem along with the cushings correct? I have my Buddy on a 6 am feeding of royal canin early cardiac dry and he gets 2 other feedings of cooked beef/pasta/ carrots with supplements prescribed by the holistic vet that put him on his homeopathic remedies. But he hasn't been wanting to eat his medicines so we've had to become creative and he's not wanting to eat his 6am feeding and the other feedings he doesn't want the homemade right now so I've opened a can of wellness beef stew and he dove into it. Don't know if he just wants to be picky or wants to change permanently. It concerns me because he seemed healthier on the homemade diet and now I don't know what canned food to feed him. What is better than others that is lower sodium for the heart. You usually have to watch the salt intake with heart problems. Do you need to watch salt intake too? I'm sure not knowing what to feed our Cush dogs drives us all crazy. T

[Budsters Mom]

Okay seriously now, I did hear that Viagra was being used successfully to open blood vessels in the lungs, resulting in freer breathing. :)

Sorry about my tasteless joke. I have been watching too many Viagra commercials. ;):eek: But, IT WAS FUNNY!!!:o. Xxxx

[LabDad]

Hi Patti,

Wow, reading the last month of posts on Tipper. And Tipper has a high Hematocrit and taking some blood away would certainly lower that. I am thinking that recitulocyte count might be a good test to add to the regimen of tests done on Cushing Dogs. I don't believe our Lulu had one. I am going to check her folder and see. It's an easy enough test.

ONE thing, and I know the more red cells you make, the more iron you need. Now, I don't know if an iron test was done, but by checking the dogs eyelids you can get a ballpark idea if she is anemic with respect.

You can also see iron deficiency anemia under the microscope. The red cells will be very pale, normally they have a red hue with a little bit of white.

The iron would be an issue if she is continually making red cells, but of course you would be also losing them very quickly too.

I had iron deficiency anemia when I had my ulcerative colitis the first serious bout I had. I had lost blood to the point that I depleted my iron reserves. It was very noticeable under the microscope as I worked in a lab at the time, and looked for myself. I also was tired when I jogged just a small bit or around someone smoking.

In Tipper's case her hematocrit is up, mine was very low. :)

[goldengirl88]

I have fed Tipper the same diet for years so I never changed it except the chicken part. She eats 4 small mini meals a day to keep her going and try to control her hunger. She has a heart murmur from a leaky valve that is ever so slight according to the Cardiologist. The told me about Royal Canin food, but there have been so many recalls on it I will not use it. I feed Tipper Newmans Own and have personally spoken to Paul Newmans vet 3 times about it. It is Organic human grade chicken and had never had a recall. It is lower in fat than a lot of the other foods, not too much salt. I give her 3/4 cup of that divided into 4 meals. With that I give her organic chicken, because all other chicken on the market is shot up with saline solutions, this Gerber Amish chicken is fresh and no additives. I add a little bit of cooked lentils to this mixture to fill her up without the calories of more dog food. Paul Newman's vet told me to do this, as they are low n carbs etc. I buy them dry and cook them. Tipper takes a supplement for her heart called Cardio Strength form Vetri Science and it has many good reviews. I also give her Hawthorne which is really good for heart ailments and has been known to help many dogs. Her blood pressure today was 110, so I know from her flow chart I keep she does not have hypertension. I record every weeks weight and blood pressure on her chart. She has had very few moderate blood pressures most were normal. She did however lose 4 ounces Yeah!!!!! I have been waiting and hoping to get some off her. So I will continue on with the cut down version of her food. She slept well last nite, it rained all nite and she was ok with it. I think she now realizes with the cooler weather the thunder goes away. I was on the heating pad last nite as I started having pains in that breast again form being squeezed to death from that mammogram test. It is still bothering me today and is the worst feeling. It is raining lightly here, but I did manage to get one walk in for Tipper and Toby. Today is a good day to make a pot of Chili so that is what I am going to do. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi Patti,

You asked about melatonin- I use Nature's Bounty which I purchase at Walgreens. I use 5mgs when I am trying to reset Zoe's inner clock, otherwise I will use 1mg to help her sleep here and there as the higher dose bothers her dry eye disease. It also causes her to drink more water. It usually take 5 - 7 days to reset her clock;)

You want plain melatonin, no time release, nothing else. It is okay to use with Vetoryl, I checked with our doggie pharmacist. He did say to give it 2- 3 hours apart from Tramadol. I have never given her both Tramadol and Melatonin in one night.

Hope this helps!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Pretty quiet nite here. Tipper walked 3 times yesterday and I don't know if that is why she conked out early or not, but she wanted up at 5 and I would not let her get up. It sounds cruel, but to keep her on schedule with eating etc. I had to do it. Otherwise she is hungry and begging for food. I have been bringing up the fact that a lot of dogs on here have spleen troubles and what is the connection to Cushings. Well I think Diana may have put the missing piece in the puzzle yesterday. She said her Teddy got a nodule on his spleen from too many RBC's. The same trouble Tipper is having, too many RBC's. I think the Cush dogs need to have their Reticulocytes checked. So is this the cause of everyone's spleen troubles? Could Be. Any one with a dog with spleen troubles , please check you blood work and tell us if there are high RBC's or Reticulocyte counts. I am hoping Tipper does not start with this trouble too. At last check she had nothing wrong with her spleen on the US. We have snow on the ground and Tipper loves it. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well no one has contacted me from the vet's office about the oxygen yet. They are really on the ball aren't they? She wheezed quite a bit last nite. She is going to bed too early and waking too early. It is very hard to keep her up. Since I have cut her food down, she gets hungry too, that makes me a nervous wreck. Tipper is not your typical dog in so much as she not only begs, she jumps on you, she barks at you, she stomps her feet, she starts looking for crumbs on the floor, and she will keep drinking water as a last resort to fill herself up. Those things are quite hard to deal with for any length of time. I am going to have to make her stay out of my room tonite so she does not go to sleep early again. I am still researching her issues, and the oxygen. Yesterday for the first time I read somewhere that too much Coconut oil can be harmful too, so anyone using it beware. I use it, but I do not give my dogs that much every day. Blessings
Patti

[My sweet Ginger]

Oh dear Patti, you've got your handful with little Tipper's more than healthy appetite, huh? I can't imagine what you are describing of her regarding foods from a 17 lbs tiny body of hers. Was it even worse for her with eating problem before the treatment? I've got it lucky in that dept. with all my babies except for the wild one Stella (about 17lbs.) though she doesn't yet know how to be persistent as long as she is not around foods. But boy, doesn't she live for food!
I hope Tipper will adjust to the time change soon so you can enjoy each other more instead of being apart from each other. In my house it was almost not noticeable. :p
About RBC, Ginger's RBC is 6.94 (5.5-8.5 M/uL) and Reticulocyte is 104 (10-110 K/uL) which I don't think quite supports your post I read though there appears to be some kind of connection between cushings and spleen. And Ginger too has a spleen mass. Hope you and Ripper have a good day. :) Song.

[My sweet Ginger]

Haha, I really meant to say Tipper. ;)

[Dianaww]

And Ginger too has a spleen mass.


Hi I chat to Patti too, and she and Tipper are wonderful, I noticed you mention that your Ginger has a spleen mass, Have they said where it is in / on the spleen and have they ever taken any biospy, Teddy was said to have cushings, then not, but I am not convinced he hasn't for sure.

That is another issue, I am interested in the Spleen mass, Teddy has a 1cm nodule at the tail end of his spleen.

I have got the diagnosis of the exact type in his notes.

I would be interested to know more about Gingers Spleen, If you don't mind sharing.

Take care Diana & Teddy x

[Mel-Tia]

Morning

Hoping Tipper had a better night last night, they can be so stubborn and determined it is hard as you are only keeping her away from the food for her own good

That vet of yours is very hit and miss, I had hoped they would be better after they realised you were right the other week but clearly not. It must be that they are just very busy and mean to do something but don't get around to it in a timely manner!

Boyce would love having snow, I am glad it is cooler so you don't have to worry about the heat or the storms, made me smile to read she is back by your side

Hope your feeling ok and not still sore from that exam

Big hug, kisses for Tipper the Ripper

Mel
Xxxx

P.S Hope Toby and Elvis are doing well x

[Dianaww]

Patti

I am sorry that no one has contacted me from the vet's office about the oxygen yet. It is not good at all is it.

It must be so hard for you with her wanting food and drinking water to fill herself up.

How was she in your room last night, I hope you both got a better nights sleep.

I didn't know that some people give their babies Coconut oil what do you give it for?

Take care Patti

Love to you and all your babies

Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Diana:
The reason I use the coconut oil is it antibacterial, balances the thyroid so dogs can lose weight, elevates the metabolism, and helps with many skin disorders. It is a medium chain triglyceride. I try to give Tipper anything that will help her with this disease. This soil is very beneficial, and even people take it for those reasons. Anything I give her is well researched, well though out and I weigh the benefits of it before giving it to her. I am hoping that by using supplements etc. to support her various systems that it will keep this disease from doing any more damage. I am sorry that you have so many health issues, but you have a positive manner in dealing with them. To have that many things to contend with is daunting, but you handle it well. You and Teddy are so alike, all these health issues but you have one another. It is good that you have a supportive husband to help you through all this. Hugs and Kisses to you and Teddy.
Patti

[Dianaww]

Oh I see that is very interesting, I didn't know it was used for that, You are so good at your research and for doing all you can for Tipper, I know we all do our best, but I know the time it takes to research and then to get vets to work with you, it is a real battle at times isn't it. I hope they come back to you about the Oxygen tent soon too.

Love Diana & Teddy x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I have been still researching the oxygen for Tipper. I have found out that if using it you must have moisture also as the dogs corneas, and lining of the throat can dry out quickly. I will be at the vets on Wed. for the blood pressure and I am going to ask who dropped the ball about calling me on the oxygen concentrator?? Can't wait to hear that answer as the vet will be there to give Tipper her Adequan injection. I will get to the bottom of it then. The IMS emailed me and at the top of her email it said re: Dear,sweet, beautiful Tipper. It made me cry. She said when I bring Tipper for her heart and eye check up on the 25th that she will be working and if I want her to she will do the blood gases. I am torn on that one. I want no more pain than necessary for her, and I am worried it will show nothing, as I think the oxygen level is low only at nite when she struggles to breathe. So that would be a waste. I would like some opinions on this please. Tipper slept well and walked this morning. We have about 60mph winds right now and the temperature is rapidly dropping. Today is a good day for a bowl of hot soup! I am hoping Tipper keeps this weight loss off when we get back to the vets on Wednesday as I am watching every nugget she eats. I need to get some more off her without her getting so hungry though. I have had pains in my back all morning and hope it is not this kidney stone I never had removed starting up again. I have to make time and get it done, just now when things are so up in the air with Tipper. I think I will call next week and schedule and appointment. I am going to take it easy today, just in case this is starting up. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

I ordered the wild salmon oil in the link Glynda sent me. I am wondering since they say you can overdo this and cause problems if giving this every day as they say on the website is advisable? Do you know anything about this?

You asked this on Squirt's thread and I'm answering here. :p

I'm not sure which oil you bought, but I've used the Kronch in the past and was very satisfied with it. The things to look for in fish oils are the amount of EPA and DHA - you want the highest you can find in these two. Also watch the Omega 6 - you do NOT want very much of this included. Most feeds contain plenty of Omega 6 and tho this is an EFA (essential fatty acid), too much is pro-inflammatory, ie it causes inflammation.

As for why too much could be bad - this is an oil, a fat, so for one it can cause weight gain; two it can be too much fat for a cush pup or a pup with pancreas issues; three adding these oils can cause diarrhea so if a high dose is the end goal, you start with a low dose and slowly add more until the stools start to loosen. This is the maximum dose until the pup adjusts. If the loose stools persist, you cut the dose back to the last amount that did not cause digestive upset.

Something else to keep in mind when adding oils - you don't want the oils to oxidize, causing free radicals, so I always add Vitamin E oil along with the fish oil even when antioxidants are included in the oil itself as with the Kronch -


Ingredients - Salmon Oil and Antioxidants (extracts of natural origin containing strong tocopherol, 6-palmityl-L-ascorbic acid, olive extract and rosemary extract)

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jan W.]

I agree with Squirt's mom - if giving fish oil you do need extra vitamin E unless you are feeding grass fed meat. Most fish oils come with some kind of preservative like Vit. E but not enough. Then there is great controversy about fish oils and I am currently using Carlson's liquid and keep it refrigerated to keep it fresher. It does not smell bad nor taste fishy and I think it does not get rancid as easily as the others. I'm not an expert here, and am sure there are others better but the cost is pretty high.
As far as coconut oil, I use it sparingly and as Squirt's mom said start out with low amount, but you also need to be careful of the type you use per Whole Dog Journal - I'm not sure why as can't remember but it should be in a glass jar rather than a plastic jar and probably organic virgin oil. Whole Dog Journal mentioned all their reasoning but don't have the article handy. I even take a bite of the coconut oil once in a while myself.
As far as the elevated Reticulocyte count - I get concerns about these medication causing bone marrow problems although I don't see any mentioned for trilostane - I did find one that mentioned Lysodren having this as an adverse reaction.
My dogs tend to run high hematocrit and hemoglobin normally due to their diet. Jan W.

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Sorry we kind of hijacked your thread. I will have to check the Omega's in the Kronch oil. I intend on giving her small amounts, as I do not want to deal with pancreatitis ever. Thanks for your help, I know you would know what to do. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Jan:
I have been giving the coconut oil to Tipper about a teaspoon every morning. I will look for the organic and see if I can find any. Gee I did not know that about the glass jars either, you learn so much from others on here it is a God send. Thank you for your help. Blessings
Patti

[Junior's Mom]

Regarding omega 6-
A healthy diet contains a balance of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. Omega-3 fatty acids help reduce inflammation, and some omega-6 fatty acids tend to promote inflammation. In fact, some studies suggest that elevated intakes of omega-6 fatty acids may play a role in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome. The typical American diet tends to contain 14 - 25 times more omega-6 fatty acids than omega-3 fatty acids.

Source: Omega-6 fatty acids | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega6-fatty-acids#ixzz2kGwkgoDP
University of Maryland Medical Center
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thanks for all the help with the fish oil. I am going to give it to her in small amounts and not every day. I want to see if I can get these triglycerides down. Her highest was 629 and the lowest was the one we just did of 394 so they really need to come down. I will talk to the vet about it on Wednesday and the vet hospital at the end of the month. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Mel:
It was so good to hear from you. I miss you on here. How is Boyce? You must be getting hit with an awful lot of work. I am glad you look in and know what is going on, it makes me feel good that you are watching. Love to you and Boyce
Patti

[Dianaww]

My dogs tend to run high hematocrit and hemoglobin normally due to their diet. Jan W.

Hi Jan W

What in their diet causes the high hematocrit and hemoglobin as Teddy has these high too (He has other issues healthwise) But I am interested in this comment.

Many thanks Diana

PS I am NOT hogging Pattis thread, You can PM me if you like.

[Dianaww]

[QUOTE=goldengirl88;126950]Patti you say " I do not want to deal with pancreatitis ever." Who has got that?

Or is it something that can be caused by one of the oils you are talking about ?

Diana x

[goldengirl88]

Diana:
Yes fat in the diet, which includes oil can cause it in Cush dogs that is why they have to be on a low fat diet. Tipper has never had it, but I see others on here dealing with it, and I know it can be painful in dogs. Tipper has so many little things going on I just don't want to give her fish oil to correct her Triglycerides and have it cause her pancreatitis. I will have to give small amounts only a few days a week. I was cautious with the coconut oil too as it is essentially a fat. I give her small amounts of that also. It seems you have to watch everything you do with these babies, as one thing can lead to another. Tipper is napping right now and I have been trying unsuccessfully to wake her up. I don't want her up at 5:00am!!! The wind is still whipping her and the furnace keeps coming on as the temperature dips. We are looking for more snow tomorrow. WE live in a snow belt and get blasted sometimes. Hope you and Teddy are keeping snuggly and warm. Blessings
Patti

[Jan W.]

I just read an article about fish oil in regards to elevated triglycerides and cholesterol. According to this article - if you know anything about VLDL, LDL, HDL etc. the fish oil will lower triglycerides by breaking down VLDL into LDL which lowers the triglycerides but increases the LDL cholesterol but the LDL is a calculated measurement and by the time you mathematically figure all that out the increase really isn't what you think. I think I understood what they were saying so your cholesterol really isn't elevated much. ???!!!&&&***
I know probably most of those on this site will gasp when I tell you my dogs are on a raw diet and have been for years. Most dogs on raw diet will have some lab values a little different than non raw diets. The hematocrit and hemoglobin are usually a high end normal or elevated some. Jan W.

[goldengirl88]

I got it Jan! I think so! Thanks for the help in explaining that I am glad for the help with this. I don't want to cause Tipper any more problems by trying to solve one. Thank you. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

I see Patti I didn't know that, will write to you on my own post not hog yours x

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I forgot to put this in my post last week, but the Hawthorne seems to really be helping Tipper. Her blood pressure was 110 last week which is really good, as it has been 130-140. I consider that a real good thing. Tipper was restless last nite. I am not sure if it is an adjustment needed in the meds, or it is something inside her bothering her certain ways she lays. It is hard to determine which. I have been researching for weeks now, and came upon this product that may help someone on here. It is called Azodyl and is to cut down on uremic and toxic buildup in the kidneys, if anyone's baby is having kidney issues you can look into it, I did not research the product itself. I am calling the Dr. to schedule an appointment for this kidney stone. I probably have to go to his office first so he can charge me an office visit, then he will schedule it. I could feel it grinding in my back yesterday. I don't want to leave my dog to do it, but if I have an emergency with it, I will be in more trouble away from her. It is really brisk here and we are expecting snow tonite and tomorrow. Tipper has already walked. I was starting to give her hair a trim yesterday. I had to give her some soy beans to sit for me for a treat. She gets so grumpy, and impatient and wants to snip you. She never did any of this before. Now her fur on her face is crooked as she would not wait for me to straighten it. Oh well she is a work in progress again. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Sounds like a similar work in progress to Zoe - it is hard to keep their hair even when we are trimming and they dont cooperate.

Freezing weather and snow is about to arrive in good old WI:(

Patti- I do hope you get the kidney stone straightened out. I worry about you.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I have been researching for quite a while now about Tipper's high Reticulocytes. I am just now wondering if the Trilostane could be causing her problems in her bone marrow, which is making her count high???? Does anyone have any information on this? Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

Hi Patti

As you know Teddy has the same high red cells as Tipper
and he has had Low Whites as you know also.

I know it was mentioned to you about a bone marrow test
as it was for Teddy, that is the only way you can tell for sure
if they have Bone Marrow issues.

BUT it is not something that we all want to put our little ones through. It needs a general anesthetic in many cases, and is painful in many cases.

I hope you can find out another way, as yet I don't know if there is one that will tell you.

If you find one, please let me know too.

Diana x

[Squirt's Mom]

I think I would call Dechra and see if they have any input on that for you. Interesting thought....

[labblab]

Patti, per Dechra's Treatment Brochure, they say that trilostane can cause red blood cells to decrease, but not to fall below normal range. To my feeble brain, this would also point to low reticulocytes, too, but maybe not. Maybe there is some paradoxical effect that causes them to increase. I agree with Leslie -- this would be a good question for them.


Complete blood counts conducted pre- and post-treatment revealed a statistically significant (p <0.005) reduction in red cell variables (HCT, HGB, and RBC), but the mean values remained within the normal range.

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
I am going to call Dechra in the morning and ask if they know anything on this. Good idea Leslie. I guess I would have thought to do that, but in a way I am asking myself if I really want to know this????? Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patti,
Hugs and love to you and Tipper.

[doxiesrock912]

Interesting Patti, I'm curious to hear what they think.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well we woke up to a beautiful 4-5 inches of snow. It is so pretty outside and the sun is shining and glistening off the snow. Tipper walked and is so happy and energized it is unreal. She just loves this stuff. I have to keep her from wanting to rub her ears in it though. Last time she did that we got an ear infection. I am waiting until someone is in at Dechra this morning before calling to get info. on the bone marrow stuff. I have an appointment to see the Urologist Monday the 18th, which would have been my brothers 65th birthday had he lived. My insurance company gave me bad information when I had to have all my testing done in Pittsburgh, because they said the hospital this Dr. goes to is not in network. So I could have gone there all along! I just received my benefits package from work. They have gone to even cheaper insurance, and dental. I need to get this stone out before the end of the year as I have all my deductible paid. When I worked my company was written up as having the best benefits in the US, now it has really gone down hill. Tomorrow Tipper gets an Adequan shot and she needs one, she has been a little noisy lately, and doing all that continual swallowing. Yesterday I gave her one of the allergy pills from the IMS, It seemed to help a little, hard to tell sometimes. I will post after talking to Dechra. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

All this talk about snow! :cool::cool::):cool::cool: That is one of the things I really have been hoping Squirt gets to experience again because she so loves the snow! She will put her face down in it and plow! :p

I told one of the techs about Dr. Smith's use of Adequan and plan to talk to Doc B today and see if he has or will talk to Dr. Smith and start this for Grace. I hope we can do this for her and that it helps her. I may end up running her through the rescue I work for and using Dr. Smith but that would mean driving to LR every week but the difference in the cost of the shots may make that worthwhile - I'll have to see.

Really looking forward to hearing what Dechra has to say about the med's effect on bone marrow!

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Tipper just went out potty and jumped in a pile of snow I had swept away so she could go. She is having a ball. I am hoping that the Vetoryl is not causing Tipper's problems, but we will soon know as I am calling now. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I just got off the phone with Dechra. I was told that they have no evidence that Vetoryl would be the cause of Tipper's high Reticulocyte count. I got to thinking about that though when we were on the phone I was looking at my spreadsheet of Tipper's HGB and HCT and Reticulocytes. I am wondering if it could possibly be the Vetoryl and they just do not know it yet. The reason I thought this was Tipper's last blood test showed her cortisol was up a little, and her Vetoryl dose was lower at that time. I am going to go thru her dosage changes and ACTH tests and see if I can find a connection that way. I want to see if during the uncontrolled periods her readings were lower or higher on the HGB,HCT and Retics, and when her cortisol dropped real low, if these numbers were higher or lower. I could possibly find a pattern to establish what could be the root cause. I will have to study these today. One good thing I usually always have a blood panel when doing ACTH so it will be easy to compare . So I guess it still remains a mystery until I unlock the secret. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

How nice that Tipper is enjoying the snow so much! You must have really loved seeing her so happy and energized!
We had snow showers all morning...nothing sticking here..the streets are too warm. Too bad it's all over already...I like it too.

Funny how Trixie doesn't love going out in the rain and this morning we had the same wet streets like a rainy day except snow flakes were falling. Well, she can tell the difference between rain and snow and she was so eager to get outside once the front door was opened.
She was happily trotting around sniffing the snowflakes and we took a long walk along the East River, she was loving it. Dogs really love snow!
I hope Tipper has a great day and some more time out in the white stuff !!

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I have gone over Tipper's blood work and corresponding ACTH's. There is no apparent pattern. It is about split on the times she has low cortisol and low reticulocytes etc., as when the cortisol was higher and the reticulocytes etc were higher and she had higher cortisol. That has solved nothing, so I am back to square one, thinking the low oxygen at nite time. I am going to ask the vet if Tipper can come for Adequan every 3 weeks instead of 4. She isn't honking, but making that sort of snorting sound when she smells something, and I can tell it is bothering her, and she has been doing that constant swallowing. Also, is anyone aware of anything that they just came out with that would be better for her than GlycoflexIII??? Maybe even something I could use in conjunction with it??? I need to go to the source of the problem and try to work from there to help her. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I am glad Trixie had a good walk too. Tipper's fish oil is shipped so I should be getting it soon. I am wondering if it is good or bad to refrigerate it so it does not get rancid. She takes vitamin E everyday so I do not need to add that to her regime. My whole day is spent doling out her pills and supplements. No wonder I cannot get the weight off her as I must hide this multitude of pills and supplements in chicken to get her to take them. It is funny how these dogs get energized form the cold weather and snow. I am happy Trixie had some good numbers this time. That sounded so nice a walk along the river. Tipper much prefers this weather, she even went out last nite when it was pouring down rain and went potty with no problems. I think she realizes the thunder is gone and she is not scared now. Thank God! Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Glad that you and Tipper are having a good day and she is loving the snow. Molly loves it too as long as it isn't icy and doing the melt/freeze/melt/freeze thing.

Good luck at the doctor. Both of you. :)

Is there any recommendation as to how often or for how long they can take Adequan shots?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Concernedmom]

Hi
I give adequan every 3 weeks and was told that was the max but with my dog that passed last year who had severe arthritis his vet had him on weekly adequan shots so I would guess that it depends on the severity of the pain. We also give the injections ourselves actually my husband does the honors. Buddy is very good getting the shot. It's when they start to lose the muscle mass that makes it harder on them. I buy the 2 pack vial from Drs Foster Smith. I also want to mention that I use GlycanAid advanced formula from Handicapped pets and have been for years.
http://www.handicappedpets.com/glycanaid-ha-advanced-formula.html

[Jan W.]

Have you tried Chamomile for your little ones breathing problems? I have been looking around for some approaches. Chamomile helps with inflammation and since tracheal collapse can involve inflammation I thought it might help some. It is also antispasmotic and calming. It is relatively harmless unless you have allergy involvement here. It doesn't look like there is much that can be done without major intervention. I noted some possible accupuncture both normal accupuncture and with some kind of injection which sounded involved.
I agree that getting a blood gas with an anxious dog would not be ideal. Since I'm not involved with vet medicine - I wonder if they don't have a pulse ox type equipment for dogs. Surely they use something in their surgeries to monitor oxygen. Even with that Tipper would probably be anxious just being in the office. Humans can take a pulse ox instrument home and measure their levels during their sleep. This would be difficult with a dog but you can ask if this is possible. Then you could also measure their oxygen level with oxygen on to see if Tipper would be getting any use of the oxygen if you do figure that all out
I watched a couple you-tube videos about tracheal collapse and see what you are dealing with. My dog so far only gags once in a while and I'm sure this is from atrophied muscles and possibly more coming our way.
I'm thinking of using chamomile if I decide to retry the trilostane. I found out that trilostane interfers with glucocorticoids (of course) which helps balance your digestive system as well as everything else in the world, so if our dogs system is used to the glucocorticoids then we go in there and upset the system - we have upsets all over and the digestive system is one.
If we can reduce a small amount of inflammation this could give Tipper a little more room to breath.
Oxygen can be drying and humidity does help but unless you are putting the oxygen tubes directly in Tipper's nose, I don't think this would be a major issue. I would think just having a vaporizor in the room would help. We do not use humidity with oxygen when humans are on lower levels anymore. Tests have been done and they came to this conclusion. But I recently had a colonoscopy and of course they put oxygen in my nose and I felt burning in the one nostril immediately then for a couple days afterward I was sneezing from the irritation.
I am also giving my dog Alpha lipoic acid once in a while as it helps with kidney and heart. Of course I give Coq10 most every day, but I read something about it that I may need to rethink my use of it but can't remember what or where I read it. CoQ10 helps with the congestive heart problems which I believe you mentioned you were already using. Not sure if increasing the dose would be of benefit and you have a small dog so would be more sensitive to increases. All of these supplements are not regulated and most contain some kind of soy in the capsules (magnesium stearate) which can cause problems if soy is a factor with allergies.
I can't remember if you mentioned Tipper's hematocrit and hemoglobin levels, I know you talked about the reticulocyte count - but if your hemoglobin levels are low you have decrease access for oxygen to be carried into the lungs which would not help Tipper, but I would think this would be more of a problem with exercise than asleep.
I am really glad you are telling us what you are going through as it helps me see where I can be headed. sorry for all the rambling but I can't sleep as usual. God be with you. Jan W.

[spdd]

Hey Patti.... just catching up on your thread. Poor Tipper having some problems again, but as always you are right on top of it.

You are happy about the snow??? Guess that's because Tipper likes it so much, but I detest it, and have to keep a constant eye on Keesh when he's outside as he freezes up. It's difficult to haul an 85 lb dog (he was that weight) back into the house cause his legs won't work. He's been like that since a pup.

I will be keeping an eye on your thread to see how you and Tipper make out. I'm extremely busy these days, sometimes you wonder if a holiday is a good idea cause there's twice as much to do if not more when you get back. I cannot get rid of this exhausted feeling either, I contribute that to getting so sick when I was away.

Glad to hear though things are relatively going well with Tipper. Keep up the good fight, and thinking of you.

Hugs

[Mel-Tia]

Hello

Work has been very intense, it's worse since the merger.

Boyce is doing great, he wasnt as scared of fireworks this year so I have no idea why but i will take it. He didn't run off and hide just barked a few times at the loud ones. He also loves the white stuff, had done since he was a pup, I love it, causes absolute chaos over here on the transport system but it looks so pretty :D

Hope Miss Tipper had a good night and that you are doing ok?

Big kisses to her from me and a tight hug for you

Mel
Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am getting ready to take Tipper to the vet's for her Adequan shot and blood pressure. I can't wait to see what excuse they come up with for not calling me about the oxygen. Tipper had a good nite, but it is 18 here this morning and she cannot walk if it is under 32 because of her breathing and her heart. It is not supposed to warm up so we may have to play ball in the house as she will be thoroughly bored. I need the dog sitter for Monday morning as I have the Urologist appointment at 8:30am. The road have been really icy around here with many accidents so I hate going out early, but I have to get this done before the end of the year or I will have to pay my deductible again. I think I am going to make Tipper and the cats some salmon today instead of the usual chicken. Yesterday Tipper drank a lot of water and is starting at it again this morning. I have to keep an eye on that to see if something is up. She is so fat around the middle from this disease that it is hard for me to lift her. I bet with all the water she drank she will have gained back the 4 ounces she lost. It is a continual battle, which it never was a few months ago. I will post when we get back. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am back form the vets office. The vet is so impressed with Tipper's blood pressure since being on the Hawthorne. He asked me where I got it as he has an Amish neighbor with high blood pressure that will not go to the Dr. Isn't this a turn around??Now he is looking to me for answers! Anyway her blood pressure was 120. I urge anyone who has a Cush dog to with high blood pressure to get them on this Hawthorn. It will save your dogs life. High blood pressure really does a number on their kidneys, so it is best kept low. When Tipper first started with this I called a great Dr. who worked with me on her allergies years ago. She told me the single most important factor in the Cush dog is blood pressure, so I am just passing that along. I have Tipper's done faithfully every week. We also discussed the trachea issues and that Tipper has been snorting like a pig again this past week. He said on some dogs the Adequan wears off faster, so she is to get shots every three weeks now instead of every four weeks. He said these shots hurt, and she is just the most stoic dog, she never even winces when getting it. Also her anal glands were full, as I keep a record on them too. I am the record queen! So I had them clean them out. Dogs with allergic histories should have them cleaned regularly, and their ears checked. I felt a lump on Tipper's chest the other day. Even though she is prone to those fatty cysts I wanted him to feel it. Do you think any of us could find it??? Heck no. So I decided to mark it with a red magic marker the next time I find it so I can show him. It is 32 now and moving up the thermometer, so I think I will walk her when it hits 34. Blessings
Patti

[Jan W.]

Glad Hawthorne is working for Tipper - I tried it on myself some time back and it did nothing for me. Maybe I'm not giving myself enough or the right kind. What kind and dose are you giving?
We have 60 degrees here in Colorado and dry. Need some of that rain. Jan W.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Jan:
I give Tipper the Glycerine form as Cush dogs are not supposed to have alcohol. They have the kind in alcohol too, they are both human grade, and come from the Poland/Hungary area. I give Tipper a dropper full which equals 1/4 teaspoon once a day. She was running 130- 150 on her blood pressure, not that it is high for a dog. The IMS said she doesn't get concerned until 200 and over! Well I don't happen to believe that so I want Tipper's down low. She went to 110 and 120 now. I would say that is great! I get it from Mountainroseherbs.com and it is certified organic. My cardiologist told me to get the best kind and organic. Hope it helps you. This brand comes from the berries and the leaves of the Hawthorn tree. Envious of your temps. right now, hope you get some rain. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am going to ask a stupid question here. I have been thinking and thinking about Tipper's reticulocyte count and she is making too many red blood cells. I am thinking about it when I can't sleep, and this came to me. Lentils help you build red blood cells. Paul Newman's vet told me to cut calories in Tippers food by giving her lentils to replace some of it. She eats lentils at every meal as a replacement for a portion of her dog food, could this be causing this????? OH MY GOD could this be the reason all of this is happening????? Ok I will wait to hear the answers. Thank You all Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

hmm, didn't think of that but yes Lentiles is suggested to increase red blood counts, kidney beans, dark green leafy vegetables, etc. You can look up a whole list of food that are good for that purpose. Maybe you should look for a different fiber that doesn't do that but is low cal and will fill her up.

New project!

Then cut those lentiles back or completely out and see what her next count is and if it starts coming down, you'll know the culprit.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Simba's Mom]

Just popping in to say hi...

[Squirt's Mom]

When I read your query yesterday, I got me to wondering about Squirt's diet. She gets 191 grams of lentils a week in around 2500 grams of feed per week. The last few labs I looked at for her last night do not indicate an elevation in reticulocytes....but her diet has been carefully and professionally balanced for her. You might want to think about adding a nutritional consultant or Veterinary Nutritionist to Tipper's team. ;) Have you been able to determine if this started rising after adding the lentils to her diet or were they rising before that addition?

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Wow...you think the lentils could really be the culprit? I suppose if it is it will be an easy fix.
I hope you can figure that out...like Sharlene said I guess you can cut them back and see what happens.
Tipper is such a good girl taking her shots like a champ!! What a sweetie!! Trixie was sniffing around with a super cute Jack Russell today in the park. They are such a great breed...loaded with personality!
Hope Tipper has a great day today. I think the temps are supposed to moderate a bit in the East so maybe it will be cold but not in the teens and she'll enjoy her outdoor time. Is there still snow for her to play in?

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am in contact with a nutritionist for Tipper as Leslie suggested. Until something is formulated for her I am giving her some Newman's Own and her chicken. This is quite an expensive I can see, because now I have to give her more chicken in place of the lentils, as I cannot give her more dog food as that will just put weight on her, which we are trying to avoid. She has had a good day and walked three times . I think the loss of muscle and her stomach hanging down pulls on her back and her organs and that is what makes her uncomfortable. I was thinking just for walking purposes what if I would slip the top of a support stocking around her, that would help hold her up if that is a good idea. I know not to do it for any other reason as that would weaken what muscle she has left, it is hard on her walking though I can see it. Any ideas or opinions would be great. She is hungrier today and I had to leave her in my room. I knew taking the lentils away would make her hungrier as they are bulky and filled her up. I just have to suck it up and deal with it for now. I did give her some veggies with her food tonite to try and fill her up. Blessings
Patti

[Dianaww]

Hi Patti

I am really interested in what I am reading about the Lentils etc
As for Tipper tummy muscles I wonder if you could get a band made
to fit her when out walking, a bit like those ones you have in the USA when Potty training (as you call it across the pond) but obviously not to wear it in the same place, like a wide velcro fastening band.

I can see it in my head but don't think I am explaining it too well.

I really hope you get to the bottom of the red cell issue.

Love Diana x

[Jan W.]

Thanks for the info on the hawthorn - I want some for myself and give it a try again. I used the powder form before and think the organic liquid might be better effective. We'll see - Cinder's blood pressure runs about 140. Hawthorn has a lot of other helpful properties that Cinder may benefit from.
As far as the lentils - they are fiber and they have greater iron content so it may just cause some changes there in a round about way.
Jan W.

[spdd]

Hi Patti.... just thought I'd let you know that I'm getting a support strap for Keesh to help him with his hind legs. Believe it or not the hydrotherapist has them for $20.00 - I need it to help him out of the pool and also to get into the car. I know that's not Tipper's issues, but figured I'd pass that along to you. He still can take the stairs, but ever so skiddish with the snow and ice. I'm hoping he learns that it's support for him and will get used to it.
Hope today is a good day for you.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had another good nite, but still some tracheal noise that worries me. She tried to get up at 5:30 and I made her lay down until 6:00 as she would be off schedule again. I know she is hungrier since she is not getting the lentils, but we just have to adjust to it some how. Judi that is a great price on that strap, I think they are usually around 40.00. I am going to also stop Tipper's vitamin E for a while as it also promotes growth of RBC's. I will be anxious to see this next blood work, I hope a month is enough time to see improvement or not. I am hoping the trip to the vet hospital will not be outrageously expensive as I have to take Toby for his checkup, and Lucky my cat needs blood work because of the Ursodiol. I am not looking forward to Monday at the Urologist. There is just something about him I don't like he gives me the creeps. I guess I will just have to be creeped out and get this over with.Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Good Luck with the next visits for Toby and Lucky. You are a good animal health manager! :p You are on top of it!! I feel like managing one pup takes a lot of attention...you have many to think about.
Glad Tipper has been having good nights! Trixie is poking her head up a bit earlier ever since that darn time change! Thought by now she would have adjusted but she's still going by the old clock for sleep and meals!!

Barbara

[molly muffin]

Hope you all had a good day.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well what a day I had yesterday. Busier than a one armed paper hanger. Just as I was getting dinner finished I happened to go to the refrigerator to get something. Low and behold it was off. I checked the circuit breaker and all was ok. Now this refrigerator is huge, and I mean huge. Cabinets had to be redone it was so large. It ahs the French doors on top and the freezer drawer on the bottom. Well all was full too. Went to the garage and got boxes and a cooler. I had to unload this monster. My back was killing me from being bent over in the drawer for so long. Thank God it was on rollers, it took every ounce of strength I had to get it to move forward. I went and took my jeans and socks off, and put on shorts. I had to snake down thru a hole between the counter and the refrigerator and the cabinet to get behind it. Leslie would have been proud of me, I removed the panel in the back and started to vacuum out everything. God the dust bunnies under something when you can't move it is unreal. I even put a yard stick underneath it at times to clean under there. So I cleaned the coils out real good. Maybe too much dust on them and they overheated and shut off the ____ thing! I was dead after this and then had to put everything back. Well I might as well clean the refrigerator before putting things back in right? I was exhausted when done. I threw some things out that needed to be gone and had to carry all that to the garbage. So , I baked, cooked dinner, washed my hair in between, did the refrigerator, & washed clothes. In between my dilemma my older neighbor man brings me a 20lb sack of fresh beets. Yes it was not a typo I do mean 20 lbs. I thanked him of course, then thought what in the____ am I going to do with all these. I can pickle some, but I do not can as I have enough work. I have never frozen them- they have a lot of juice and I bet they would turn to mush. Hate to not use them. I put them in the freezing garage for now to keep. They all have to be cooked and peeled too! I waste to waste food. tipper had another good nite. I could hardly get out of bed this morning after the contortion act of yesterday, I literally had my foot above my head climbing backwards into this hole. Ok Kathy no jokes!! HA HA. Believe it or not, Tipper actually looks less blown up around the rib cage the last 2 days. Don't know if it's the lentils gone, or the lower amount of food. Could be a combo. I heard back form the nutritionist yesterday and have to say I am quite disappointed in her, PHD and all. She wrote back to me telling me there is no nutritional diet recommendations foe Cushings. You just need to watch what they eat and how much. Well___ I thought I already was doing that and she claimed she would formulate a diet. So much for her expertise. I have been let down so many times by so called professionals during this journey that I trust no one, but this panel. I am going to make my kale soup today if I can stand up that long. I guess I will cook some of those beets too. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I just heard on the news a thunderstorm tomorrow. It has to be at nite right? I am so afraid of this affecting Tipper's eyes again that my first thought was to put her in the car and drive away from it. It is supposed to come at nite though and I cannot leave the others here alone. I am going to have to think of what we can do here to avoid this. I am definitely getting out the Benadryl. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

:p:D:p Oh the refrigerator woes can make you NUTSO! :D:p:D But you done good! Now you know all I do about them! :D Amazing how much hair and dust collects on those coils and fans, huh? :eek: I'm glad you got it taken care of and didn't lose your food.

ggggrrrrrr....your experience sounds like my first one with a Veterinary Nutritionist. She simply printed out an online diet from UC Davis and gave it to me with minimal instructions. It had lists of meat, veggies and fruits to use - no proportions, no weights, no cooking instructions, just the lists to choose from. I would ask questions and get no answers beyond what was on that paper. Squirt got sick - her thyroid went nuts. That's when I found Cat and she designed a diet for Squirt - ONLY Squirt - based on all the factors in her life, not just Cushing's but all her health issues, her environment, temperament, age, activity level, water she drinks, every little thing that has a bearing on her day to day life. The intake questionnaire was several pages long. I learn SOOOO much just from that difference in how the two approached a diet for Squirt. I would recommend you contact Catherine Lane or Monica Segal to work with Tipper's diet. Either one will look at her specifically, which is the best way to approach it. ;)

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I guess I left out the part that the refrigerator is still running thank God. Now every time I leave here I will be worried it will shut off. this thing is fairly new, and was the top of the line model. This makes me very unhappy. Leslie, I actually was laughing crawling in that little hole thinking of you having to work on yours. The dogs kept looking to see if I was gonna come back out. I do not need a repair bill now as Tipper goes to the hospital on the 25th and it sure isn't free. I do have an extra refrigerator in the garage for pop, water etc. I can use that if I have to, I would just put the stuff from inside this one out there. Would be a tad inconvenient but at least no money going out. I am cooking my kale soup while I post and it smells so good. I will give my neighbor man some and the old lady next door. I like to share things, and help people out if I can. Just took the doggies for a short 15 minute ride in the car. They love the smell of this soup. Leslie I am going to contact the people you gave me for the nutrition. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

I think if I was looking for a nutritionist, that I would go with Leslie's recommendation too. After all, she has already paved this road and knows what kind of menu they can produce for you and that's important to have that kind of recommendation.

Oh my, you certainly did gain your contortionist wings with that refrigerator cleaning! LOL

Hope the thunderstorm doesn't happen. I know we got a warm up here today compared to this past week.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I wish I knew if the weatherman was right about the severe thunderstorms tomorrow. I am really worried about Tipper's eyes. If anyone has any good ideas let me know as I am really worried. She has been so calm too, this is a real pain. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Patti did you ever try the melatonin with Tipper?

We had just a few rumbles and then just wind and rain, maybe you wont get the thunder.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am so tired. Last nite the rain started really heavy, some rumbles and Tipper immediately ran to the closet. Very early this morning about 4am I could hear her tummy noises going really bad. I got up and took her out and she proceeded to eat part of the lawn, and would not stop. I brought her in and fed her right away and gave her and acid reducer. So that meant Toby was up too, then Elvis. I am tired. Everyone is fed and Tipper is on high alert laying at my feet on her snuggly blanket. It is still pouring and the wind has started. Addy I was going to get the melatonin on Monday when I go to the Dr. as I have someone to watch Tipper then. Too bad this had to happen before. I am going to wait an hour after the Vetoryl and give her Bendadryl. If she sleeps all day that is better than the alternative happening. I wonder if I put her in my car in the garage tonite if it would reduce the noise. I would sleep there with her if it would. I will have to go in the car this afternoon and see how well you can hear what is going on out there. I can't believe this had to start with this weather when she was doing so well. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

I would try 3mgs of melatonin, dont buy time release, you want plain melatonin.


http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/3_4/features/Dogs-Affraid-Thunder_5131-1.html

[goldengirl88]

Addy:
How long does it take to work as I am wondering when to give it to her? Thanks
Patti

[addy]

http://ygrr.org/doginfo/behavior-phobia.html

according tothis when storms are predicted.

[goldengirl88]

Addy:
I got the 3mg. There is a small drugstore in this town. I took Tipper and ran up there. Thank God they had it. I never go there as they are outrageously expensive, so I had no idea they sold it. We are getting all kinds of advisories so have already given her one. Should I give another at bedtime? Thank you
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

I like to have the melatonin in their systems at least an hour before the storms are supposed to start.

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Is it OK to give her more at bedtime? There are tornadoes everywhere, and loud thunder. I am so scared for Tipper, I hope his melatonin works. I am very concerned about her eyes. Are you getting any of this? Isur hope not, especially for Squirt's sake. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

we have the same weather with tornado warnings, crazy- Patti I know for sure Tipper can have it every 12 hours. I believe every 8 hours for thunder and anxiety may be ok but I am hoping some one else will confirm this.

[goldengirl88]

Stay safe everyone!!!!!!!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

We just have wind advisories but no storms expected today thankfully. It sounds pretty bad north of here, tho, so ya'll stay safe!

Patti, I give it every 8 hours when storms are bad IF needed. I keep a close eye on the weather maps and such to see when fronts are moving through, how fast, how strong and go from there. If it's one front after the other rolling through, they get more than if it's one or two. When we lose power, I'm blind so to speak so do what feels right. Squirt was taking 12mg a day at 15 lbs of weight before that seizure. Sophie at 18-22 lbs gets 6mg at a time for storms, Squirt 3mg, Brick (4.8 lbs). 1mg. If they are asleep, I don't wake them for the next dose but if they react to a boom and it's been at least 8 hours, they get another dose unless the front(s) are just about through and I am able to know that.

[molly muffin]

I'm watching the radars. Stay safe all!

hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Thanks everyone, I pray my Tipper does not get crazy from this I am so worried for her. Blessings
Patti

[Woodydog]

I hope you and Tipper stay safe and the storm doesn't make her crazy poor soul. I'm lucky the weather doesn't effect Woody except he,s not keen on the snow x

[molly muffin]

Looks like the worst should be moved out or moving out of your area.
How did it go? Tipper and the gang alright?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Tina]

Patti, I thought about you guys all night. I hope Tipper did ok with all of those horrible storms and that the damaging storms missed your area.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I had to go to the urologist so I just got back home. I have to go to the hospital for an Ultra Sound and xrays. I told him I don't want to go for the operation because of Tipper. He seemingly took it well, and said we will do this first and medication. I do not like leaving my dog, I have a terrible fear something will happen and I won't be here to help her, so this is the way I am going unless my ureter is blocked then he said I have no choice. So I gave Tipper the melatonin, and I though at first it was not going to work. We had terrible straight line winds, hard rain and thunder. She lay beside me in bed, lifted her head a few times and listened, and then conked out. I was never so overjoyed to see her sleeping. She slept for a good while then woke up and listened and got up and went in her cage. She was good for the rest of the nite. My God it was a blessing as I was scared to death she would have bleeders in her eyes again. Thanks everyone so much who helped us thru it. It is funny we had so many tornado warnings, it does not scare me in the least, but I become very scared for my Tipper, that is what I worry about. Toby barks at the thunder, and the cats just simply don't care what is going on. Elvis slept and would talk quietly in his cage when he would hear thunder. So we all made it thru very well. I am hoping all of our family on here made it safely thru also. I noticed Tipper's sides are not sticking out as much, I think she has actually lost weight from no lentils. Hopefully that will be the case when I take her Wednesday. We have very strong winds here today and many so not have power. Than God I have an outside generator that automatically comes on when the power goes out. The power company here has antiquated equipment and lines so it does go out often here. I could not live here with these animals with no power as the winters are brutal. Thank goodness I had the forethought to have that generator. It has saved us many times when the neighbors have no power in the winter. I cooked some of the beets I was given yesterday and pickled them. The rest are in the cold garage and will use a little at a time. Tipper is fine today and walked twice. I am hoping her blood work shows improvement in the triglycerides and the Reticulocytes in a month. I got the fish oil Saturday and started her on it. Blessings
Patti

[Mel-Tia]

So glad to hear you are all ok, was watching out for your post

Good news the melatonin helped :)

Big hug

Mel
Xxxxx

[Squirt's Mom]

Glad ya'll are alright and that the melatonin helped! YAY! I know that was a blessing for you and for Tipper.

[addy]

Yippee the melatonin worked!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

[My sweet Ginger]

Ooooh, I'm so happy to hear the melatonin worked for Tipper overnight! I can just picture you watching Tipper sleeping peacefully and feeling so relieved. I pray you and your Tipper have many,many more of those peaceful nights.
About those gossipy neighbors, please don't pay any attention to what you hear, simply not worth it. You have better things to worry about like your precious Tipper and other babies of yours. They have nothing better to do so they gossip about others and I bet they are envious of you for a lot of things. It's sad but that's not one of your problems.:)
Ginger's been resting/sleeping since we got back from the vet. Gave her prednisone per vet and we will see if her appetite comes back. The results should be tomorrow.

[Budsters Mom]

Thank goodness the Melatonin worked and you both can get some rest. :) xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I should have taken some of that melatonin myself!!! The hospital called today. They want to move Tipper's cardiac appointment to January so she can see the Dr. that has been there and the IMS will do her Ultra Sound for her tumor the same day. It was originally scheduled after the eye Dr. on the 25th of November. I don't know if this is good or bad. I really couldn't bare bad news from both on one day. Don't know if this is a good idea or not. That means I am going to Pittsburgh the 25th only for an eye appointment, but I do not miss any appointments for her so we will be there. The wind is so wicked here tonite and the cold air is coming in. I am so glad I want to see snow, and no more storms as I was worried sick for Tipper this time. Thank you everyone for your support. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
I'm so glad Tipper had a good night in spite of the storms. We had loud heavy rain here for a few hours starting at about 3am I think. I could not believe it but Trixie did not get up and hide in the bathroom. We had no thunder but the rain was pounding. That will usually be enough to send her hiding...but not last night. A surprise for sure.
Now it's windy here and temps are dropping...it was mild all day but it's changing now.
Hope you don't lose power and that Tipper has another good night's sleep tonight!

Barbara

[addy]

You can take melatonin too:):):)

I did get a headache from it though after 3 or 4 nites when I tried it:)

[Budsters Mom]

Thread hijack...sorry Patti

Addy,

I tried melatonin. It gave me a headache too. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have migraines. Do you have them also? Just curious. Xxxxx

[doxiesrock912]

Patti, I'm so glad that the melatonin worked for Tipper!!!
You both need the rest.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper was acting very strange last nite. I went to bed and turned my tv on like usual. There was a lot of wind last nite and sleet as it was trying to snow. Tipper would wake up and put her head up and listen for 10 minutes at a time, then she would smell the air. It is the funniest thing, I don't know what is going on. She was uncomfortable with the noise outside and finally went in the closet. It is very cold out this morning and she has walked. She is sleeping at my feet with lots of throaty noise. She seems to have lost weight as she is not as barrel shaped right now. When I pick her up she still seems heavy. She drank a lot yesterday and was hungry, I don't know at this point if it is because of no lentils or the dose is not right. I will find out tomorrow if her weight is down as she has blood pressure and weight checks tomorrow. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

They can sometimes sense a change in the air pressure, so she may have been worried about that, was the pressure low last night withe the wind?

Kathy- I do get migraines but they have been a bit better since I switched allergy nasal sprays.:)

[goldengirl88]

Addy:
I think the pressure was low and she has a real keen sense for it. I just don't know what all the smelling of the air was about. I take medicine daily to prevent migraines. I am wondering if it could give our dogs a headache??? Blessings
Patti