Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Went to the vets and got that over with. Tipper got her 7th shot and we went over Tipper's blood work. The Dr. is in agreement with me that she could have Gallbladder issues since the alk phos and alt have risen. We discussed her ACTH results also. I asked that he call and confir with the Dechra vet. I talked to Dechra today also. They think Tipper needs to be off the Vetoryl all together for a while, they will let me know how long after they talk to my vet. Also they think when she starts up again it may be just on 10mg instead of 30mg. They are feeling like her adrenals have gone back to normal and this is too much Vetoryl for her now. I am going to have it confirmed on the ultra sound Friday and let them know the size etc. They said they felt that Tipper's high alk phos and alt was not from cortisol because she is suppressing all too well. They feel there is something else going on with her, which made my heart jump. I was scared of this ultra sound before, now I am petrified. Because her pre number is so low .7 they said she could very easily slip into Addisons. I am watching her like a hawk. Her cortisol being on the very lower end is why she is going into a panic during a storm. The Albumin rise is like I said from dehydration, and confirmed by the vet, even though she is not. So I need to get the blood work inline where it should be, and will die a million deaths until Friday when she gets her ultra sound. Then next week she has 2 vet visits and an eye appointment in Pgh., and then laser therapy. I am dead today from those darn cats keeping me awake. I just feel run down. I had my Dr. give me a B12 shot to boost me up a little. I am so scared of bad news on this ultra sound, that it is all I can think about. I am praying and praying my girl has nothing bad going on. I am back to crying this week, and getting nervous. The though of Tipper ever leaving me is just not an option for me. Thank you all for your support, you make it possible for me to continue this fight. If this disease wants my girl, it better be ready for the biggest fight in history, because I am not letting it have her. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Maybe getting Tipper off the vetoryl for awhile will let her deal with the storms better.

Lets just see what Friday brings and deal with it then. Remember, just about everything can be dealt with in some way. There is no need to think dire thoughts. What you are doing is once again being proactive on Tippers behalf. If there is something there, you Want to know about it so you can deal with it and make her better. Not knowing and having something going on, would be much worse.

Go into Friday armed and ready to work out a game plan if you need to. That is the mindset to get into. Gearing up to battle anything and everything on Tippers behalf. See, That I know you can and will do. :)

Hang in there~!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

One baby step at a time Patti. Maybe stop the Vetoryl for a while and give her a chance to bounce back.

I know that you're dreading the ultrasound. It is always better to know as much as possible in order to make informed decisions. :o
Thoughts and prayers headed your way,

[addy]

You will deal with it all like you always do. My hubby warned me before Zoe's last ultra sound, that I had to live with the knowledge of whatever we found. But I had this sick dog who got so bad after her surgery, I had to know in order to know how to help her.

And we just deal with it all, and I know Patti, you will to if there is anything serious and if it is all clear, well, then you can breathe a sigh of relief.

But you will know how to help your precious Tipper, one way or another.

HUGS

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Patti, your Tipper knows how much she is loved, you are a great Mom, ....with cushings it seems like we always prepare for the worse, I think the disease does that to us...but the more you know the more you can treat it, so keep praying for good results, I will be praying with you!! Hugs.....

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Sorry you have had a tough few nights worrying and also with the hungry kitty. You probably need a good night's sleep but thinking about all this likely make that difficult for you.
Did the vet check out Tippers paw? I agree with Sharlene that there will be a solution to what you find but no need to think the worst. The rest from the medication may be a good thing for Tipper. Between the shot and the break from Vetoryl perhaps she'll have a good night without any labored breathing.
Try not to worry too much..I know that's easier said than done!

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thank you all for your encouragement, it gives me the power to go on. Last nite Tipper was limping now with her back leg. Honestly, talk about problems one right after the other, we got em. So I have been carrying her in and out to potty. she could have just landed wrong or something. I am hoping rest will cure whatever this is. The vet looked at her front paw and said he saw where she had been licking it and it was sore. So I can just put some Panalog up in there. The back one ahs me worried though. True to form the vet never called me to tell me what he discussed with Dechra. So on my own I stopped her Vetoryl. I will do what I think is best until his royal highness decides to call me. Funny thing about how different peoples' opinions are. Has to run in the hardware store, and took Tipper in with me. The lady behind the counter said" who is your vet?" I told her and she said "don't you just love him, and isn't he the most knowledgeable vet?" After feeling vomit in my mouth I just smiled and said "gotta go." I thought as I walked to my car, lady if you only knew what I know! I am going to make my jelly today, I need to keep busy until Friday as I am a bundle of nerves. I just realized that Tipper and I have been in this house together for the greater part of a year now. Leaving on very rare occasions to go to the Dr. and that is it. It seems like it went too fast for me. Why can't I just stop that darn clock?????Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patty,
I wish I could have stopped that darn clock a little over a year ago before Scoop started having all his problems which was in the beginning of July 2012.
Hopefully if you can get Tipper to rest her leg it will feel better real soon.
I hope the ultra sound on Friday brings good results.
Prayers and hugs for Tipper and you.

[LabDad]

Patty,

My wife (Moo) and I are saying prayers for you and Tipper. Here's hoping being off Vetoryl helps a lot.

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

It sounds like everyone is finally on the same page with Tipper's care. That is a good thing! Relax because if Tipper improves while off Vetyrol then you know that she's really doing better. The gallbladder issue can then be assessed more accurately.

I honestly think that all of this means that you're closer to getting more accurate answers.

[Budsters Mom]

What a great idea to make the jelly today! I Bet it's yummy! :DYou might have to start a mail order business! I'm glad that you have a project to occupy your brain for at least a little while. :p I know it's hard, but try to do others things that you enjoy, We all need a break now and then, even for a couple of hours. Although I worried about Buddy continuously while I was at work, I was forced to concentrate about something else while I was there. I had children that needed me too. Yes, I rushed home to Buddy, but I still had a break while I was there. I worry about you Patty.

Sorry to hear about Tipper's other leg. Often resting it does help. Let's hope so. Xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thank you all for thinking of my girl. She sprawled out on the floor yesterday watching me make jelly. That is unusual for her as she always needs to be doing something, so I knew her leg was bothering her. She gets laser therapy early next week so I am sure that will help her in that regard. She has slept ok for a few days and very few episodes of struggling to breathe, and very little wheezing. I can only hope it is the shots finally starting to give her some relief. I still hear her snorting like a pig when smelling the grass etc. so I know this is her trachea. It seems the Adequan must be giving her some much needed help. She did start to walk this morning for the first time in 2 days. We had to come home as it started to rain. She is resting now. It is very hard keeping the dogs separate. Toby gets really upset being inside a gated area and so does Tipper, oh well it has to be. I wish Friday was here already as I am getting more nervous every day anticipating this test. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Just one other thing I forgot to post. Monday when Tipper went for her shot a couple rushed in a wire haired terrier, and said he just became ill all of a sudden. The dog looked bad. Of course my vet showed up 20 minutes late again. I called about that dog yesterday only to find out he died. I was so upset hearing this. He had a tumor on his spleen that burst. I keep wondering to myself if my vet had come on time, could he have been saved? I truly hope that my vet is saying this to himself, as he needs to think long and hard about what happened. The sad part is he probably went home and forgot all about it. He has still not called me about Tipper's instructions from the Dechra vet. Should I expect him to? No. So This is her second day off the Vetoryl that I decided on my own to stop for now. We will see how this plays out.
Patti

[spdd]

I'm glad to hear Tipper is having a few good days anyway with the breathing. Let us know how Tipper makes out off the Vetoryl, seeing I've taken Keesh off it too.

I'll be thinking about you on Friday, I assume you get the results right away. Try not to worry too much. An ulcer isn't funny and you don't want to get one from the worrying.

[goldengirl88]

Thank you for thinking of my Tipper. I wish this was Friday and the testing was all over with. The waiting and nervously wondering about any other things that could come up are daunting. I told God last nite that he never came thru with the miracle for my father, and could I cash my miracle in for Tipper. I am hoping against all odds there are no further problems, but I know in the back of my mind the alk phos and the alt are rising for some reason. Glad to hear Keesh is eating. How is the peeing while off the Trilo? Blessings
Patti

[kaibosmom]

Thinking of you and Tipper. Hope things are going well.

[spdd]

My heart goes out to you, honestly it does. I know exactly how you feel, and the worrying is so mentally exhausting yet when it's bedtime I'm physically tired too. My brain somehow tells my body it's been a rough day-LOL

It isn't long enough into the day yet, Keesh's peeing I think is about the same, yet his water intake so far is a little less. I measure the water daily, so I'll know when it's bedtime.

No accidents in the house though thankfully.

Take care of yourself please, Tipper needs you healthy.

Judi & Keesh

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well I feel like I just got a punch in the gut. I just spoke to my vet and he told me Chance my cat's blood work came back. His Creatine Kinase has jumped to 500 and 135 is normal. I told the vet on my last visit that Chance was losing a lot of muscle in his rear legs etc. and I though maybe he needed laser treatments. Well so much for telling him anything as he didn't listen to that either. I am sick at my stomach as he was the only well one in the bunch. It means he has something bad going on with his muscles. Could be a muscle disease like MD, rheumatoid problems, underlying liver disease the list goes on and on. I did not need this before Tipper's ultra sound. I got an immediate headache and I just feel awful. I knew he was not himself as he did not want to engage in play and only lays around and sleeps. I could just scream, but then the neighbors would really have me carted off to the looney bin. I am taking him on Monday to get an exam and talk this out. My vet said he would probably talk to the Dr. after Tipper's ultra sound. I told him he better be around as if there is something found I want to get on it now, not 5 days from now. I used to have beautiful nails, but the Lupus and the thyroid problems ruined them, so I don't even have any to chew if I chose to do that. I am telling god tonight that I am at my breaking point here and need to catch a break. Chance will be 13 in February and he is the sweetest, most loving and well behaved cat I have ever had. He'll even answer me if I ask him if he wants to play. He has never ever hissed, scratched or anything even though Lucky has tormented him badly. He would never lift a paw to strike Lucky back. This is starting to pee me off big time. I am so anal about all these animals care and I keep getting health problem after health problem. Who do you know brushes their cats teeth? I do. I have really taken care of them all the way they should be taken care of, and I am getting so upset with all this crap. Oh well, there are others that have bigger problems than me. I will keep on going but this is wearing me down. This is when you need a family member to lean on, God I wish I had my dad. Ok I have had my little tirade. Tipper goes for her blood pressure and her last shot tomorrow. I think they better check mine too! So off to the vets we go in the morning. Thank you all for listening to my rant as I am about to lose it and go mad, yes start raving crazy!
Blessings
Patti
P.S. Here goes all the money I saved for Tipper if she had problems and needed something!!!

[addy]

Oh Patti,

I am so sorry to read this, you cant get a break it seems and I worry about your health too. I am saying prayers for Chance. How is Tipper doing off the Vetoryl all in all?

[Woodydog]

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. You did not need this on top of everything else.

You do a great job of looking after your animals but please look after yourself too the animals need you well.

You will be in my prayers tonight

Love and hugs Tracy

[Budsters Mom]

One day at a time Patty, just one day. Concentrate on getting through today and then start on tomorrow. It does seem like you're not able to catch a break lately. Xxxxx

[molly muffin]

Well, this is not good news about poor little Chance. I think things just start to go wrong as they get older, just like with us humans. I know though how devastating it is and how expensive too.
Hugs to you Patty. You have to be able to catch a break at some point.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Oh Patti...so sorry to hear about Chance. Wow...you didn't need that just now. I hope Chance will be okay. It's all very distressing.
I'm glad to read that Tipper wanted to walk and is also doing much better with her breathing. So she's doing okay so far off the Trilostane?
One day at a time...(that's what I tell myself a lot). We're all here for you Patti.

Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Oh my Patti!

I'll keep Chance in my prayers too.
Please don't let all of this make you sick Patti. I know that is difficult but we are here for youto lean on.

Im glad that Tipper has had good nights.

[Budsters Mom]

I have been keeping up with your zoo Patti. There are five in all. They are Tipper, Toby, Lucky, Chance and Elvis.:) That is a handful when they are healthy.:rolleyes: Please take care if yourself. We are a bunch of worrywarts. Xxxxx

[spdd]

I'm sorry to hear about Chance. Once today and tomorrow is over, I'm hoping you can relax a little on the weekend, as you deserve and need it. Next week you will know everything that is going on with both Chance and Tipper and hopefully focus on other things.
Of course we all know how you feel, and the deep concern we have for our babies, but the tests will tell the story and you can take it from there.
Please look after yourself, they need you.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
This is a short post as I have to take Tipper to the vet for her Blood pressure and shot #8. I will post when we get back as my vet talked to Dr. Fox at Dechra yesterday. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Just got back from the Vets and Tipper's pressure was good, and yeah she got her 8th shot. She is to get a booster once a month. The vet called me yesterday after he spoke to Dr. Fox at Dechra. Dr. Fox is concerned with Tipper's .7, and wants her off the Vetoryl until Sunday. He cautioned that although I took her off on my own and she has been off 3 days her number being under 1 is not good and even though she is not taking Vetoryl she could go into Addisons. I have the prednisone ready and he said to watch her carefully for any sign of weakness and vomiting. Dr. Fox said that the studies in the UK are showing them that after a dog has been on a certain dosage for an extended period of time, they tend to not need as much of the Vetoryl to maintain the cortisol. So since Tipper is so low the plan is to keep her off until Sunday then start her back on 20mg dosage. She is to be checked in a month which is terrible and I hate to do it to her, and God the cost. He said she still may be low then and may have to go to 10mg. So I am just about out of the 30mg. and I ordered 2 10mg boxes yesterday. Both Dr.'s want her on brand name Vetoryl and no compounded product. So the cost will be unreal again, as buying two boxes a month gets expensive. Oh well that is how it has to be so I will figure something out. She is to have the 20mg dose all together in the morning. Dr. Fox also wants my Vet to call him with Tipper's ultra sound results tomorrow. He agrees with me and said it could be the Gallbladder. My poor Chance is in hiding and would not come out to eat this morning. I hope he is able to hang in there until Monday to see the Vet. He has never done this before and always eats for me, so I am worried about his situation. Please say a prayer for my girl tomorrow that this is nothing bad that cannot be taken care of somehow. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Dr. Fox said that the studies in the UK are showing them that after a dog has been on a certain dosage for an extended period of time, they tend to not need as much of the Vetoryl to maintain the cortisol

Patti- that is consistent with the info Dechra gave my vet.

Hang in there

[goldengirl88]

Addy:
Good to know you have the same information too. I got the impression that Dechra gets a lot more information on the dogs using Vetoryl out of the Uk than they do here in the US. It was just something their Vet said that made me think this. I got my cat out from behind the sofa and fed him, so at least I know he is eating. As long as he can make it until Monday when we see the vet, he has never done this, I think he hurts all over. Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patti,
I'm so sorry to hear about Chance. Hopefully he will be Ok and see the vet Monday.
Sending prayers for a good result for Tipper's ultra sound tomorrow.
Hugs for you.

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Thanks for thinking of Tipper, and Chance I appreciate it. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Tomorrow is going to go Very well. :) I'm going to hold on to that thought for you.
Poor little Chance, hopefully they can figure out what is going on with him on Monday.
Poor baby must be feeling pretty horrid when they do the hide behind the couch thing.

Hang in there Patty.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Mel-Tia]

Hello there

Just wanted to post to let you know I am thinking of you both and will be tomorrow.

Good luck Tipper the Ripper, be a good girl

Big hug to you Patti, I have asked my angel Tia to look out for you both. Also hope they can help Chance on Monday

Love
Mel
Xxxxxx

[frijole]

Me too. Sending positive vibes and love, Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Me three!:D We are all right with you Patti. Sending healing energy your way.:p

[Trixie]

Good Luck at tomorrow's Vet appt. I'll be thinking only positive thoughts for Tipper! Hope you are able to get some sleep tonight.

Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Good luck tomorrow Patti!
I hope that Chance comes out of hiding, he must not be feeling well.

[addy]

Hope everything goes well today. Thinking of you and Tipper and hope Chance feels better.

[goldengirl88]

Everyone:
Thank you all so much for thinking of my Tipper and Chance. I am getting ready to take Tipper to the vets and God willing there is not going to be anything wrong that cannot easily be fixed. Thank you Mel I appreciate Tia looking after Tipper. Last nite Tipper slept ok not too many struggles to breathe. I have noticed the last 2 nites since she has had no Vetoryl that she is looking for more food after her bedtime nuggets. This morning at 5:00 AM she had a stomach ache like she used to get a long time ago. I had to take her out, get her some food and she was ok after the food got in her tummy, about 20 minutes later she went back to sleep. She gets up at 6 so that did not last long. I am hoping she does not get upset and quiver when we get to the Ultra Sound Place. Again thank you all for your continued support as this is a scary day for me. Blessings
Patti

[spdd]

Good luck today... will be thinking of you.

[molly muffin]

Popping in to let you know am thinking of you and Tipper today. Hope Chance has a good day too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Right by your side, Patti. I know how scary this is but you and Tipper will be ok with whatever the outcome is. You are stronger than you think and can face anything that comes your way. And remember, you will never face anything alone. We are here for you all the way. I pray they find all is well.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
First of all thank to all of you for you tremendous help and support. As you know I have no one but this forum and I treasure you all. Tipper had her ultra sound and the following is what the Dr. told me.
Her liver has some nodules on it now, it is not enlarged. With the nodular pattern he feels they are benign nodular hypoplasia- hope I got all that correct. There were some darkened spots on her liver. The Dr. said the spots and nodules can be seen in older dogs regularly. The nodules would have to be biopsied to see if it was cancer. At this stage she cannot undergo something like that so what good is the biopsy? Maybe I am wrong and need some direction from you all.
He said if the pancreas cannot be seen that is usually a good thing as that means no pancreatitis. Hers could not be seen.
He said I was right about the Gallbladder she does have sludge so she has to be on Ursidiol. We talked and he said I can start her on some of my cats as it is only 60 mg and I told him I want on top of this immediately, as I know what it did to my cat and he stopped eating. I will order the correct dosage which may be 60 anyway. I just gave it to her at 10:45 and due to her history of being allergic to everything I am closely monitoring her for any allergic reaction.
The bad part I saved for last. He could only find one adrenal gland, and not the other. Either it has gone down so small because her cortisol is so low, or he saw a large circular object that could just be nothing or it could be her second adrenal gland that has absolutely blown up huge. I have to be truthful, my heart sank when he said this. He is going to have another Dr. review it, and they and my vet will talk to the Dr. at Dechra. The reason I am worried really right now is if that has ballooned up, she is off her Vetoryl right now until Sunday. Is this going to make it worse?? I have put in a call to Dechra and am waiting for a call back. Of course my vet is nowhere to be found. The Dr. said he will more than likely want a second opinion if the other Dr.'s don't know either. I take Tipper to Pgh. the 22nd for her eye appt. If that is the case I would have to pay for another ultra sound and see if my vet could get her an emergency appt. to get this done the same day so we don't have to make 2 trips. I am trying to stay calm, ad get this all handled asap.
My thought is if her cortisol is so low, how could the other adrenal gland get so large? What would cause this? I am hoping it is too small and he could not see it which would make more sense to me knowing how low her cortisol is and it has been controlled for some time now. She started the Vetoryl last August. Her last ultra sound was 10-12 and her adrenals had gone way down from the previous ultra sound. Does anyone else know what would cause an enlargement? I am going to wait for Dechra to call me and then I will post more of what they say. Oh, just a reminder Tipper has Pituitary Dependent Cushings not adrenal. God Bless You All and all you babies.
Patti

[spdd]

Well that was quick !! - So good news and possibly some bad, but wait until he gets the second opinion of the gland. You are on top of it now and you now know what you are facing. That's the good part. You will get it all sorted out I'm sure and continue doing the great job you are doing looking after both Tipper and Chance. I hope you can relax a little more and what do you want to bet unless the vet is a radiologist, he may have just looked at the x-ray incorrectly. It's happened to me actually only it was my body... not the dogs.

[Squirt's Mom]

Well, all in all that sounds pretty good to me! The adrenal glands are notoriously hard to see even on an US - it isn't at all uncommon for folks to tell us they only saw one gland so don't let this get to you just yet.

The liver not being enlarged tells me that organ is not contributing to her breathing issues. I had wondered if perhaps it was so large it was pressing on her lungs so it is good to hear it is not enlarged. That removes another possible cause for the breathing. ;)

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
It's great you are back already. So glad to hear this was mostly good news..and well with a bit of a question about that adrenal gland. Wouldn't it be more likely that the gland was too small too see like the vet first mentioned? Isn't it true that the adrenals are often very hard to see because of their size and location? I would think if the gland was blown up that big there would be no doubt of what he was looking at and also Tipper's level would not be so low? Was he leaning to that explanation too?
Also- I'm asking because I don't know, but with Pit. Cushings wouldn't both glands show enlargement if they were swollen up? It wouldn't be that just one is big would it?
I hope the medication helps Tippers gall bladder and that she's feeling okay after a morning at the vet.

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am breathing a little easier now that Leslie had posted. She is right on as usual. Dechra just called back. They feel because of Tipper's low numbers that her adrenals should be real small. They said the left is easier to see than the right, and the right can hide behind the kidney at times. That made sense to me to as I thought they would be smaller due to her numbers. They said there can be adrenal tumors that grow, and this could be a possibility, but I don't think anything indicated that??? They said sometimes the bladder can throw a shadow over that way and that is what he could have seen. My girl was so uncomfortable because of her back legs having to be held, her little tongue sticking out and dry, and all she did was shake. I went and got her a wet towel and put it on her head and tongue, and that helped her a bit as she was over heating from nerves and Cushings. I squeezed a little water in her mouth and I could see it made her feel better. I will be very glad if the other Dr.'s don't think she needs another ultra sound, as I think she has reached her limit with all this crap, and I have to put a stop to all this anxiety for her own well being. I am praying it was hidden and he couldn't see it and that this is not a tumor on her adrenal gland. She is taking a well deserved nap at my feet. We are at 1 o'clock and no reaction to the Ursodiol thank the Lord! So she will be able to take it I assume, and get her alk phos and alt numbers down hopefully. I just want to stay inside today and hug my girl, and let her know how much I love her. Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Hi Patti, Glad to hear everything went pretty well with the ultra sound.
Glad you could be with Tipper while they were doing it so you could make her more comfortable with the wet towel. Hopefully she won't have to get another one.
May I ask you to remind me what symptoms prompted you to get the US done?
I am curious about the sludge in the gall bladder. Scoop had a lot. Did they say how much Tipper had?
Also you mentioned your cat. He had sludge? You said you know what it did to him. What problems did he have? Any besides he stopped eating? So can sludge cause them to stop eating or be picky? I'll never know why Scoop got so picky with his eating and why he would only eat a small amount then go for a drink and then didn't want to eat for a while after that. The vets seemed baffled by it.

Does anyone know what causes sludge in the gall bladder?
Back in the beginning of March when Scoop saw the local IMS she put him on Ursidiol. He was on it about a month. If I remember correctly when he finished it I told his GP vet and she said to stop it. Boy something else to drive me crazy. Now why didn't I question her about it. UGH!
Sorry Patti. I kind of took over here briefly.
Hugs to you and Tipper.
Thanks

[goldengirl88]

Vicki:
Sludge in the Gallbladder is caused when the fluid that would go thru the bile ducts becomes thickened. It settles in the gallbladder as a back up of sorts as sludge. Tipper had quite a bit, my cat did too. I could see Tipper's moving as he turned her to show me how it all falls to one place depending on how they lay. You give them the Ursodiol to change the viscosity of the sludge. You are essentially making it more fluid like so it can pass. My cat would not eat a thing, lost weight, slept all the time. I tempted him with every kind of food possible he would lick it and not eat. He got rail thin. After many times going after the vet to get something done for him, he consulted with another vet that figured it out. I finally had to result to Periactin. Believe it or not he still takes 1/4 of a pill several times a week to keep him eating. This is about 2 years later!. I can tell when he is starting to not feel well, his coat gets dull, he sleeps and if I don't give him part of a pill he won't eat. I knew just by Tipper's ALT rising that had always been good previously that it was her Gallbladder, but the vet took credit for it when he called Dechra!! I am the one who told him and told him I wanted an Ultra Sound. Tipper may have to have her dosage raised as I am giving her the cats 60mg which the Dr. today said was fine. I heard from Dechra that it is common for Cush dogs to get this. Remember Kenny and Gracie? His dog had a mucocele on her Gallbladder. God I hope she did not pass as we never heard from Kenny again. It is very likely Scoop could have had sludge also, that could be why he did not want to eat. Had he gotten an Ultra Sound I forget?? Did they ever check his Gallbladder? Hope you are continuing to try and heal your heart, I am still so sad for you, and cry when I think how much you loved dear Scoop. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Just a brief update. Tipper has started to pant and drink a little more water so she will be back on the Vetoryl tomorrow morning at 20MG. They said to wait until Sunday, but she is starting to get real ansy and pant so I know her signs well enough to know she needs it. I will just have to be vigilant in watching her so she does not go back down too low. That is why I want to start in the morning. I hope the 20mg will be her dose for a while and that suppresses enough for her to be symptom free. I guess we will soon see if the UK study is correct in what they say. Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patti,
Yes, Scoop had an ultra sound done when he was first diagnosed with Cushings, end of last summer. Nothing was said about sludge then. He had an US done in Nov, March, in NY at the end of May for his Cyberknife consult and then again the morning of the day he passed away. Sludge was seen Nov, March and July 1 and each time it seemed like the sludge got worse. Not sure about the time in NY. That didn't have anything to do with the treatment. I'll have to check it out. The last time the IMS said he had ALOT. I'm wondering if the sludge could have been the cause of his picky eating. Was you cat picky or did he just stop eating all of a sudden?

Why Scoop's GP vet never had him continue with the Ursodiol I'll never know. If it would have helped the sludge and possibly his eating why wouldn't she have kept him on it? I'll never understand. No wonder I'm such a mess about what went on with Scoop. I miss him so much and then to think about all this. UGH! Scoop's IMS told me she didn't know if she would have ever been able to figure out why he wasn't eating. You'd think she would have thought about the gall bladder sludge. I am really starting to wonder what kind of vets I was dealing with. So frustrating and upsetting that maybe my Scoop wouldn't have had to have all these problems. I am really beginning to not like vets at all.

Does your cat still take Ursidiol?
Do you know what causes the fluid to thicken?
I wonder what causes cush dogs get this?
Thanks

[Trixie]

So glad you spoke to Dechra and got positive feedback and facts about the adrenals. Sounds good for Tipper...poor girl had quite a day! Glad she's home getting your TLC. Meanwhile how's Chance doing today?

Hoping the returning symptoms fade again once you start the vetoryl back up. The drinking and the panting...those are Trixie's most prevalent symptoms too. Today we are having a pretty good day of drinking...not as bad as some. Guess these nice cool mornings we have had are very good for Cushings! Hate that it's supposed to be hot again next week. :mad:
Hope you, Tipper and the rest of your babies have a great weekend.

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Patti,
All in all, a good ultrasound report.:) I hope Chance's news is good also. Xxxx

[molly muffin]

It sounds like the ultrasound appointment went very well. It doesn't make sense for one adrenal to balloon up unless the other one is completely shriveled and not working and Tipper was still producing a large amount of cortisol, which we know from her ATCH test is not happening. That makes Leslie's scenerio the most plausible one, which is that it is a shadow and the other, adrenal is in hiding. (Very normal on an ultrasound).
Glad you got the gallbladder medicine, that will take care of that issue and best to know about it now.
All in all, I'd say a decent day.
Hope Chance is holding his own over the weekend.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper was restless last nite and got up again at 4:30am with a stomach ache. Second day in a row. This morning I gave her the Ursodiol and 20mg of Vetoryl. I am watching her closely to make sure she has no signs of going low. They wanted me to wait until tomorrow to start her, but with the drinking, panting, and stomach aches I know she needs it now. Chance is hiding again behind the sofa and does not want to come out and eat. I am wanting Monday to hurry up and come as his appointment is then. I am guessing he will get some sort of steroid which I am not going to be happy about. Vicki my cat started out being picky with his food and as his ALT numbers climbed he stopped eating altogether. I have the hives from being so nervous about Tipper's ultra sound. I pray the other vets realize that the adrenal could not be seen, and that it was a shadow seen. I do not want to make her go thru this again, as I said yesterday she has had enough and is at her limit I can tell. The cost of all this has been staggering! Next week we have Laser treatment and the eye Dr. also blood pressure on Wednesday. So there we go with 3 visits again. Then we will be down to only once a week for blood pressure and weight. My vet actually gave me a compliment and said I was doing an excellent job with her. I thought to myself he sure isn't! Between the Ursodiol for the cat and Tipper and the Vetoryl I will be eating the jelly and applesauce I made. I need a windfall of some money some how. Don't we all though? As long as my babies are ok I don't care about anything else. Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

maybe the vet complimenting you is a sign that he's coming around a bit? I hope so! Sometimes they need to eat a little crow before coming back down to earth.

Hives. Oh NO! I've had those before. What do you do to treat them?

[goldengirl88]

Valerie:
You can just use anything that stops itching. I just basically leave them alone and they go away. It was nice here today not too bad with the heat. The humidity is probably hanging around waiting to come back though. That makes it tuff for Tipper to breathe. Even in the house if the air is not coming on she gets heated up. I have had to turn down my air conditioning this year because she needs it to be cooler. Got my electric bill- wow everything is so expensive. Hope you and Miss Daisy Mae have a good weekend, with no cat food now Daisy!
Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
Benadryl helps itching from hives, but I'm not sure what other medications you are taking. It is generally considered safe but you might want to check with your doctor or pharmacist before trying it.
It does cause drowsiness, but in your case that might be good, at least you would get some rest. Xxxxx

[LabDad]

We use a Benadryl cream on Stanley and that really helps. We have pills too, but don't use the pills with the cream since the cream seems to work. We have a Benadryl gel the gal gave us that brought Stanley, but we have not used that, it is a bit cooler.

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

as luck would have it. I am super sensitive to Benadryl and can't use it.
It's been beautiful here the past few days with little humidity. I hope that it stays away for Tipper's sake.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a fair nite last nite with some breathing issues and wheezing, but not a lot. She got up at 6am today her regular waking hour. I was glad, and she had no stomach ache either. This is her second day on the 20mg of Vetoryl. She is not panting or looking for food, but did want some extra nuggets for a snack. I took her out on the porch for a while yesterday. While petting her I noticed a raised like area on her back right side up onto her back. I felt it and she doesn't have it on the other side. It is not a lump per say more like a 2'' area that feels like a big bump, like swollen. It is right above where her right kidney would be and this made me very nervous, because of the ultra sound and what the Dr. said. Tomorrow when I take Chance to the Vets I am going to have the him look at it. I will have a chance to grill him about Tipper then. I need to get these two straightened out before fall as I don't want to be traveling back and forth to Pgh. in bad weather with them. I am hoping her Vetoryl comes by Tuesday or I will have to buy some from the vet, which I do not want to do. Chance was not hiding this morning, but none the less had to be prodded into eating. I need to catch a break here as this is draining all the money I saved for Tipper. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi Patti,

I hope you can get some resolution for Chance tomorrow. I'll be waiting to hear how the appointment went. I know how worried you are about Tipper's adrenal gland. Hopefully the bump has nothing to do with that.


hugs

[apollo6]

Dear Patti
thank you for your post. I know to we'll about the worry and finances.
I will pray for you,Tippy and Chance. Try to take care of yourself during all of this. It overwhelming and exhausting. I have no regrets for trying to safe my baby.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[goldengirl88]

Sonja:
Thank you for thinking of Tipper. I know you are having a hard time, and I understand completely how you feel. God willing it will get easier for you. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I missed my morning post. I researched all weekend and talked to some vets. After doing so I decided to cancel Chance's appointment at the vet today, and have Tipper seen instead and use the time to talk her case over with my vet.
I made a discovery after calling back to my vets office on Friday and talking to the tech that handled Chance last week. After thoroughly interrogating her (very nicely) I came to a conclusion of what happened to Chance. The vet tech had tried several times to no avail to get blood out of Chance. In the process I surmised that she hit his muscle with the needle. This can cause a great spike in elevation in the CK. I went over this with my vet first thing when I got into his office. He told me I was absolutely right, and he was glad I thought of it. He offered in 2 weeks to redo the blood work for free. I told him I felt a disease process would present differently and be more gradual in the elevation, which he agreed again. He always does my cats himself, and because there was a critically ill dog needing attention, I begrudgingly let the tech do it. I made an agreement with him that he is the only one who will do the cats blood work form now on. Chance will be retested in two weeks by him personally.
Then onto Tipper's dilemma. I showed him the area sort of right above her flank where your kidney would be and he felt it. He said indeed it was a good observation on my part, but that it is a fat pad underneath the muscle. Cushings sort of took it's toll on the left one, but the right one was still intact therefore when comparing and feeling both, one seems highly exaggerated, and appears problematic, but is not.
Tipper will stay on the 60mg ursodiol for now. He wants to speak to a colleague that has done several articles on the nodules on dogs livers and see if he has any ideas we could use to benefit Tipper's situation. Until then I am to stay with the ursodiol as is, because I questioned him on the correct mg she should be taking as I know it is higher than my cat Lucky's, and she is using his pills for now as I just ordered more.
The bad part is we have to have a redo of the Ultra Sound with him present. Tipper has to be fasted, and possibly an enema. He explained that he had gone over her results with the Dr. and he said sometimes when a dog has eaten, things can show up that shouldn't and can look like other things. He said this should be a clearer picture of what is going on with the adrenals. I asked him if it turns out that her adrenal is swollen up that large is there any chance it would rupture??? He said no, and I was relieved as I was really concerned about that potential situation. If it is the right adrenal and it is swollen, I want to see if the left is shrunken down so much that it caused this. I was too stunned by all this to ask when at the US. So Wednesday at 8am we do it again and I am hopeful it gives a true picture, and I pray the right one is not that large object the Dr. showed me on the screen.
I also made some headway on the Vetoryl. I called the girl in my vets office that handles all the drug orders. The one that refunds me when they over charge me and I find out. She saw how cheaply I can get the Vetoryl for at Lambert she said she would match the price. So now I can get it there. This is great as I need some on Wednesday because my vets regular girl did not send Tipper's RX in to Lambert last week, and I would never get it in time now. None of these people do their jobs it is unreal! So now I can get it when I go there. What a relief. I got a lot of things taken care of with my vet visit and all.
So the synopsis is I am glad I relied on myself and my judgment again. I did not have to pay an office visit for my cat, and Chance is definitely ok with that as he hates to go there, and it is less stress. I got the problems solved about Tipper's lump, and the rest I will have to wait it out until Wednesday. to see about. Plus Chance gets his blood test free and that never happens in my vets office! We will see if he charges me for a second Ultra Sound, as it is not my fault he was not there to see this and it has to be repeated. I am not happy to put my girl thru this again, but we have to know what is going on for sure, as my vet will call and consult with Dechra's Dr. Fox. So on we go until tomorrow. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Wow! Sounds like a productive day! Good for you! I hope the new US is much clearer and brings you much needed relief from worry.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

A very good day all the way around it sounds like.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[goldengirl88]

Thanks Leslie and Sharlene. I did the best I could, so I think it worked out ok. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Wow! I am impressed! You got a lot done in one visit! Way to go Patti!:D

[Roxee's Dad]

I 3rd the wow!!! :) You did a great job !!! I love reading stories like this, it's kind of like an Ah Ha moment. :)

You are truly an advocate for your little fur butts :)

[goldengirl88]

Thanks everyone, I did the best I could do for both my babies. Kathy I love the new avatar of precious Buddy. Tomorrow we have laser therapy, so that is not too bad. In a way I wish tomorrow was just a free to be home kinda day. We must forge on with keeping up on the laser treatments. I think I will at least be able to get some sleep tonight as I have some problems resolved. I just took Tipper out on the front porch. She seemed to be ok with it today. Not as scared of noises as she previously was. I attribute that to the fact her Vetoryl is lowered, and her cortisol number probably came up some giving her a little cushion. We'll get up and start this journey again tomorrow. I am hopeful God will have mercy on my baby and give her good results on her ultra sound. She has been my Rock Star, never crying or making a sound during all these tests etc. Jack Russells can get nasty, and she has never even tried to snip at anyone working on her.. She just patiently sits there and looks at me hoping it will be over soon. I am truly humbled by how brave and stoic she is. I have learned many lessons from her. Blessings
Patti

[doxiesrock912]

He's coming around for sure Patti! I'm so glad that he's realizing that you do add value and insight. Good for you!

[Simba's Mom]

oh yes our dogs treat us so much, unconditional love for one thing, so glad Tipper is doing well, just take one day at a time! hugs

[scoora]

Glad to hear things went well at the vet's.
Hope the ultra sound turns out fine.
Hugs

[Trixie]

Wow...Patti you were productive and got a lot accomplished! I'm sorry that Tipper has to have another ultrasound and be fasted too..but I know how relieved you will feel when they can see the adrenal clearly and know for sure it is not swollen.
Glad that you figured out what's with Chance too.
What is with getting these people to get the prescripts into the pharmacy? This is what's happened to me a few times now which is why I was so shocked this last time they were on top of it. At least you can get the vetoryl there and price matched! yay.
What a good girl Tipper is..getting through all this without even a growl! Hoping she has a good night's sleep tonight..and you too. :)

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thanks for your support I can always count on this forum for help. Last nite Tipper slept fairly well, although she was more restless and moving around than usual. It seems something is hurting, or making her feel uncomfortable and she has to change positions. maybe the way her organs are laying from all the muscle loss? I still don't want to jinx myself, but I have to say the Adequan shots have helped her make some progress with the tracheal issues. She is not having near as many episodes of struggling to breathe, and the wheezing has cut way down. Thank you God! I have to call my Vets today as during all the chaos in his office yesterday, they let me leave without paying, and some how maybe he is not charging me??? I also have to make an appointment for Tipper's Adequan booster, so I do not forget to keep up with this. I asked the vet yesterday if the laser therapy would be bad for Tipper with this adrenal situation as it energizes the cells, and I don't want it energizing the adrenal cells especially if one is swollen. He said he doesn't think so, but I will ask the laser Dr. today before proceeding with therapy. Tipper will probably throw up when I make her get in the car. She will probably think here we go again. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

The fasting for the ultra sound is important as even if the pup has gas it can affect the picture. I argued that point with our IMS last April when she suggested an ultra sound and Zoe had not been fasted.

Glad to hear things are looking up.

[spdd]

Wow Patti, you've really done your homework. Glad Tipper had a great night and he is having relief from the breathing problems.
Another week I know of testing, but you will get Tipper stable, and you are doing everything in your power to make sure of that.
Sounds like Tipper & Keesh have the same personalities. One vet asked if they had to muzzle him for a blood draw. Ummm NO. Maybe they know deep down we are trying to help them so they behave.
Glad things are looking better for you.. keep up the great work. It will pay off, I know it will.

[goldengirl88]

Addy and Judi:
They never told me to fast her for the first ultra sound, and that fault lies with them. I thought of it and then forgot about it. I should have known better.The person making the appt. should give you those instructions. It would have saved my Tipper from all this grief of doing this over. I am going to tell my vet they need to start doing this. I hope he doesn't plan on charging me again. Judi I am glad I can use your name when I post you , I don't like to be rude and not post to the persons name. I an praying this was an anomaly that the Dr. saw the last time and we can put this scare behind us. Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patti, Hope all goes well tomorrow.

[Budsters Mom]

Wouldn't it be great if the vet didn't charge you? Ah, to live and dream.;)

I hope all goes tomorrow. Hugs to your zoo and you.:D

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and praying for good results tomorrow....

[Trixie]

Patti,
Hoping all goes well tomorrow, that the vet gets a good look at the adrenal and that it is not swollen or a problem in anyway! Hope lil Tipper is not too stressed and quickly gets out of there and gets some good treats !! Good Luck with everything. Sending out positive thoughts for Tipper!

Barbara

[kaibosmom]

Good luck!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well I am sorry to say but the news is not good. The left adrenal cannot be found and the right one is huge, or if it is not it has a tumor. They did not charge me for this either. My vet was there on time thank God. He is going to consult with the Dr. at Dechra today and call me back. The remedy for a swollen adrenal as we all know is Trilostane . She has been managed all these months on it. Now because her dose is decreased will it grow more? So am I to think tumor now. I am crushed , and don't know what else to say. Has anyone else on here dealt with this??? Also I am wondering about Nikki and if Kaibo had a tumor and that is what was removed? If this is a tumor before it invades anything what can I do. Maybe it already has and I don't know. Is this the really tricky surgery that so many have talked about? My mind is just going everywhere so excuse me for that please. I am scared to death for my baby right now. I need to get a plan together here so anyones help would be greatly appreciated. God Bless my Tipper
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

They weren't able to tell the difference in "swollen" and a tumor? That sounds odd to me but what do I know? :o The description of one huge and one not seen is indicative of ADH - the adrenal form. Did they say anything about the vena cava? Is the gland or growth pressing or invading that vein? That will help tell what needs to be done...and what can be done. IF it is a tumor and it is invading the vena cava, that makes removing the gland more risky...but many here have survived that surgery so don't panic just yet. ;)

I'm also wondering about a Pheo like Annie and Flynn had. How is her BP?

This could be the answer to her breathing issues. IF this is a tumor and it is secreting hormones or other goodies, it could cause her to pant and have more rapid breathing.

Would you remind us of the latest ACTH results? I'm lazy this morning. :o

Hope others will have more meaningful feedback, honey. Just know I am by your side and here anytime you need to talk.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Although I have heard about the vena cava I did not ask, stupid me if it was invading it. What are you meaning by phenol/ what does that consist of? Her last acth was 0.7 pre and the post was 3.0. I am in over my head Leslie I am glad you posted. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
I just put a call into the Dr. to ask about the vena cava, I will post to you as soon as they call back and tell me the answer.

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
I just read where not enough cortisol can swell the adrenal glands, just as too much can also, could the lower top number have caused this?? If the dosage is now lowered form 30mg to 20 should that help, or maybe take her off for a while?? Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Sorry...by "pheo" I was talking about a different type of adrenal tumor called a Pheochromocytoma. Kim's Annie (frijole) had one that was finally discovered after numerous tests and miles of travel. They are not common. Trish's Flynn also had a pheo instead of a cortisol secreting Cushing's adrenal tumor. Here is a link about them -

https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2007/Spring/CP.htm

I am NOT saying this is what is going on....I was just pondering possibilities since they did not state positively that what they saw was a tumor.

As for what Trilo can do to the adrenal size....I can't begin to help. I cannot keep up with Trilo so I basically quit trying to talk to folks about it beyond the very basics...and I worry about that every time I do. So I will let those who do understand it help you there. The ACTH post is great...but, again with Trilo, the pre does seem to have some significance so I will let others address that as well. :o

You will get through this, Patti, whatever it turns out to be. I can well imagine the terror in your heart today, how hard it is to breath at times, and the incredible speed your mind is racing at trying to understand what this report could mean. You will dig and fight just as you always have to make sure your sweet girl is getting exactly what she needs. I may not be able to offer more than a shoulder at times but I am always here as are so many others, fighting and praying along side you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

OK let's focus on facts at this point. It is very common for vets to be unable to get both adrenal glands. It happened to Annie and hers weren't swollen immensely - just couldn't get the image. Could be equipment, skill of technician, dog squirming - a number of things.

Where was the ultrasound done? Regular vet clinic vs specialist's office?

Did you get a copy of the report. It is written. You need that report. Not a willy nilly description of "huge" and "big" and "swollen" etc. Too many ways we could miss out on valuable info. So get it if you don't have it and post it verbatim so we can look at it.

Annie's adrenal tumor is one that does not cause cushings but it can mimic it as the body is emitting adrenaline and creating cortisol to fight the illness. That's why she had 7 false positives on all the diagnostic tests for cushings.

Her breathing issue was sporadic and it was 100% tied to high blood pressure that only occurred when the tumor was active and emitting the adrenaline. She would breath so fast I was afraid she was in cardiac arrest.

She didn't eat either. Those are the main issues - she became frail and her hind legs wasted to nothing and she could no longer get up/down. Just sharing in case any of this helps. Kim

[goldengirl88]

Tipper's blood pressure has always been good it is now 140 used to be 120, sometimes 130. It fluctuated. The ultra sound was on a brand new machine at the vets, where 3 Dr.'s were looking on. He could not find the left adrenal and there was a rather large round object they kept looking at and thinking that was her left adrenal swollen or a tumor. There is no report. I would have to take her to Pgh. to get another us done to get a report, or they could send the images they have to a radiologist to read?? I am going to Pgh tomorrow, I am wondering if this must be done again if my vet can get me an appointment tomorrow?? I need to know exactly what this is so I am going to insist on having one in Pgh. I must do all I can to in this instance as I am extremely past worried. I am calling my vets office now. Blessings
Patti

[frijole]

Patti all ultrasound eqpt is not created equal - even if it is brand new. Most vets simply do not have the level needed for high quality resolution which is certainly what you need. Usually specialists will have them. I went to a specialist 60 miles away and even their fancy machine didn't capture Annie's. I ended up going many months later 5 hours each way to a university teaching hospital. They took tons of film and got it - the tumor - on film the first try.

It is unacceptable to pay for an ultrasound and not have them do a written report. It may even be a requirement - they certainly have to take notes and write something in the file!

Hopefully others will chime in - I have to leave for a meeting. Hang in there and please don't worry yourself silly. Take one minute at a time ok? Kim

[goldengirl88]

Everyone:
I have an appointment for Tipper tomorrow in Pgh at the hospital where my IMS is. She will be doing the ultra sound. I don't do things half way. When I do something I need the best Dr. and the best equipment. This was just a preliminary test at the vets to make sure her adrenals were going down, when this was found. When it comes to my dog she has to have the best possible place to have this done. I don't want any mistakes, so I feel better repeating all of this. We will have a radiologists report and the help of my IMS on board. I have to fast her until 11:00 and this is going to be really hard on her. She sees the eye Dr. at 9:45 am and then to the ultra sound at 11am. Please pray for my girl, I am just shattered by this turn of events and need you all to pray for her. Mel please ask Tia to watch over my baby. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

This is a good plan Patti, good job getting it all arranged.

Maybe a change in Tipper's routine will help with fasting. When I have to fast Zoe I start out the morning with a totally different routine. I don't even use the same rooms we normally do. I don't worry about it before hand, so Zoe stays calm and I just keep moving around doing something differently until time to go to the car. It has worked like a charm and trust me, Zoe is a hard one to fast. Keep repeating" it will be no problem" to yourself and don't think about it will be hard to fast. I know it is hard to do but it has worked for us repeatedly.:):)

I already started prayers for you and Tipper and I am going to continue positive thoughts only and continue to hold you and Tipper close as we all do.

I'm with Kim, don't panic yet, though I now that is easy for us to say.

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
When Buddy needed an ultrasound, we were sent to an emergency hospital where they had a high-resolution machine. They also had specialists to interpret the results. His regular vet had an ultrasound machine, but it wasn't powerful enough to capture what they needed to see. I was grateful to be referred elsewhere.

I am so glad that you're following up with a specialist at Pittsburgh and getting another ultrasound. They SHOULD have a high resolution machine. Great job for following up so quickly.:) xxxx

[Squirt's Mom]

I hope this one gives much more detail and you get a definitive answer!

[Trixie]

Good idea Patti....Off to the specialist and a better sonogram which will be more definitive and maybe end up as good news and not bad.

I will be thinking of you and Tipper and sending all positive thoughts for a good outcome. Hoping Tipper gets through her fast okay, poor girl. I have a feeling tomorrow is going to set things straight...sounds like you're going to the right person and place.

Barbara

[BostonLover]

Everyone:
I have an appointment for Tipper tomorrow in Pgh at the hospital where my IMS is. She will be doing the ultra sound. I don't do things half way. When I do something I need the best Dr. and the best equipment. This was just a preliminary test at the vets to make sure her adrenals were going down, when this was found. When it comes to my dog she has to have the best possible place to have this done. I don't want any mistakes, so I feel better repeating all of this. We will have a radiologists report and the help of my IMS on board. I have to fast her until 11:00 and this is going to be really hard on her. She sees the eye Dr. at 9:45 am and then to the ultra sound at 11am. Please pray for my girl, I am just shattered by this turn of events and need you all to pray for her. Mel please ask Tia to watch over my baby. Blessings
Patti

Patti-I'm so sorry to hear about Tipper! What IMS are you seeing in PGH?

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
For some reason when I called my vets office and told them I wanted him to call Pgh. and get me in tomorrow asap, he didn't fool around this time like he normally does. He called immediately. I think the next part is an intervention from God. He called me right back and said "you know something funny happened, when I called the vets line and got an assistant it was Dr. Petersons assistant." "The assistant told me that Dr. Peterson had a cancellation for 11:00 as just as she went to use the phone to call someone to fill the spot for the Dr. I rang the phone." Dr. Peterson is the IMS who saw Tipper before, that did the scope on Tipper. I cannot believe how this happened. It is divine intervention to help my girl, I know it is. I am sorry I am crying as I am typing this, I am an emotional wreck. I am trying to not display this nervousness in front of Tipper as I don't want her upset. To Leslie's question, the vena cava is not compromised and it is laying right along side of it. When my vet called me to talk to me after talking to Dechra it got a little confusing. He said in the beginning they felt she had pituitary dependent Cushings as both adrenals were swollen. Now with one almost 2 1/2 times it's size he says he is wondering if it could be adrenal dependent. How can that be because treatment with trilostane would decrease it and they both were decreased on the last ultra sound. I read that if the cortisol goes to low, that it can blow up the adrenals also just like when they have too much. Does anyone know any different?? So I am thinking because she was low it shrunk the left one that cannot be found, and it blew the right one up to compensate. Do you think this sounds logical, as my vets rendition doesn't??? If it were adrenal one would have been really swollen in the beginning instead of both. I am thinking my way is more logical, as when they go into Addisons the adrenals blow up that is why they need the prednisone. She was very close to Addisons and Dechra was worried she would go into it. Her pre number was only .7 and the post 3. If this explanation is not feasible then it is either a tumor or pheo as Leslie said. If in fact it swelled because of low cortisol, should I think about stopping the Vetoryl now??? I guess we have to determine what it is first, as if it is a tumor stopping the vetoryl may increase it??I am all over with this so I will have a better plan together tomorrow, as I do expect some concrete answers when the radiologist reads he images. I am not going to let this take my girl!!!!!!!!! I will fight to my last breath. Any suggestions or anything at all that could be helpful please let me know. Pray for my girl please.Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Crystal:
I go to Dr. Peterson at PVSEC animal hospital. Is this the place where you take your dog also? Hope all is well with your baby. Blessings
Patti

[spdd]

Good luck tomorrow Patti. Remember your are doing everything you can, and you should be proud of yourself. I'll be thinking about both of you, and truly hope everything turns out.

[goldengirl88]

Judi:
Thank you, please say a prayer for my baby . Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti,

This is not the news that I know you or any of us wanted to hear. However, still so many unknowns that it is hard to create a game plan.

So, did Pgh did the last ultrasound? same place, so they can compare the two? Very important that they get a clear image of both glands tomorrow I think. Then if one Is enlarged, you definitely want to know if it is the gland itself or if there is a tumor. If a tumor, what kind, what are the thoughts of why it has grown when it wasn't there previously.

Maybe a call yourself into Dechra and ask them about whether or not the trilostane could cause an adrenal gland to swell and the other to decrease.

I'm just throwing thoughts out as I don't think you can know anything positively until after seeing the specialist tomorrow and getting their take on this.

Hang in there Patti. I know that today, tomorrow and every day you will always do the best thing possible for your furbabies.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Patti, I am praying for Tipper.
I am glad she will be having another US in Pgh tomorrow.

You were talking about adrenal dep cushings. Didn't Tipper have an MRI done or am I not remembering correctly? You asked them to not tell you the size of the tumor. Maybe my memory is really bad and I'm confused.

Hope all goes well tomorrow. I will be thinking of Tipper and praying all will be fine.
Hugs

[Woodydog]

Hope all goes well for you and Tipper. You both will be in my prayers

[Harley PoMMom]

Tons of prayers being said and sent for you and your sweet girl.

Love and hugs, Lori

[Roxee's Dad]

We are all here for you and Tipper. Sending many prayers and positive thoughts your way. Keeping all fingers and paws crossed.

[frijole]

Prayers for both Tipper and YOU. Stay calm knowing you have the cushings angels (us) flittering over your shoulder throughout the process. You are not alone. Kim

[doxiesrock912]

Wow Patti!
Someone is looking out for the two of you!

Prayers coming your way!

[labblab]

Patti, even though it is counter-intuitive, I believe trilostane treatment for pituitary-dependent Cushing's usually enlarges the adrenal glands rather than making them smaller. I am not sure about the impact on adrenal glands if there are tumors present there. But just wanted to mention this so you'd know that adrenal enlargement, at least to some extent, is actually the norm for the majority of trilostane patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14703251

Marianne

[Budsters Mom]

You can do this Patti. We are with you. Praying for you and Tipper the Ripper.

[Simba's Mom]

Sending hugs and prayers, fingers crossed, paws too!!!

[kaibosmom]

Hi. I was just catching up on things with Tipper. You had wondered about Kaibo. Yes, Kaibo did have an adrenal tumour that was causing the Cushing's. He was treated with Lysodren but we were having a hard time keeping him in the maintenance phase. At one point, a vet at the college thought the diagnosis of Cushing's was wrong so she wanted him off of Lysodren for at least a month and then repeat an ultrasound. He had several ultrasounds previously both at the vet clinic and at the teaching hospital. They finally saw the tumour in April. We decided quickly that he would have the surgery despite the risks, especially because he is only 6 years old. We expected the surgery to happen quickly but they wanted to know if it was a pheochromocytoma (pheo) or not. While we were waiting on those test results (they tested urine catecholamines) he was diagnosed with diabetes so the surgery was put on hold until his blood glucose was controlled. During this time, his Cushing's was not being treated. It was hard seeing all of the Cushing's symptoms return because we had seen such amazing improvement with him when on the Lysodren.

Someone mentioned the numbers of pre and post ACTH test meaning something. I wonder if you were thinking of the low dose dexamethasone suppression test (LDDS). In that test, the results at the 4 and 8 hour time can help determine if the Cushing's is caused by the pituitary gland or the adrenal gland. Kaibo never had high blood pressure so that was another way to rule out it being a pheo. I am not sure what else to write at the moment. If you have questions ask away!

I know this is all very scary and overwhelming. The key for us was to remain positive. Always focus on what is good in your life. There is something to be grateful for every day even when it seems like there isn't. I wish you well on Friday and will be watching for an update.

Take care.
Kaibo and Nikki :o

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am a nervous wreck, but decided to post as Tipper is at my feet going crazy. She is so hungry this is going to take everything I have to get thru this. Three times in three days is a lot to expect from her. I never slept a bit last night and got Tipper to bed late so she would sleep late and not be hungry so long. It did not work, she was up at the crack of dawn. My favorite time of the whole day is her sticking her face in mine and kissing me to wake me. Little did she know how still I stayed, and in one position not to wake her. I must have gotten a call last nite after I silenced my phone, from the hospital. They informed me a radiologist was now going to do Tipper's US. I told them I had to have a report on what exactly this was, so maybe they changed from the IMS to a radiologist. I think that is even better I hope??? I will have a Dr. that reads these things looking at it, which seems like the best scenario to me. Had some coffee and it gave me a stomach ache as I was unable to eat much yesterday. I hate those moments where your whole world seems to turn upside down. All of you on this forum have shown Tipper and I such kindness and have been so helpful in this journey. I could not do this with out the support of this forum. Each and everyone of you that have posted to me are wonderful, and I appreciate all of you immensely. This will be in God's hands today and I pray he has mercy on my precious girl.
Blessings
Patti

[BostonLover]

Crystal:
I go to Dr. Peterson at PVSEC animal hospital. Is this the place where you take your dog also? Hope all is well with your baby. Blessings
Patti

We also go to Dr. Peterson at PVSEC!! Good Luck!!!!!!

[BostonLover]

Hi Everyone:
I am a nervous wreck, but decided to post as Tipper is at my feet going crazy. She is so hungry this is going to take everything I have to get thru this. Three times in three days is a lot to expect from her. I never slept a bit last night and got Tipper to bed late so she would sleep late and not be hungry so long. It did not work, she was up at the crack of dawn. My favorite time of the whole day is her sticking her face in mine and kissing me to wake me. Little did she know how still I stayed, and in one position not to wake her. I must have gotten a call last nite after I silenced my phone, from the hospital. They informed me a radiologist was now going to do Tipper's US. I told them I had to have a report on what exactly this was, so maybe they changed from the IMS to a radiologist. I think that is even better I hope??? I will have a Dr. that reads these things looking at it, which seems like the best scenario to me. Had some coffee and it gave me a stomach ache as I was unable to eat much yesterday. I hate those moments where your whole world seems to turn upside down. All of you on this forum have shown Tipper and I such kindness and have been so helpful in this journey. I could not do this with out the support of this forum. Each and everyone of you that have posted to me are wonderful, and I appreciate all of you immensely. This will be in God's hands today and I pray he has mercy on my precious girl.
Blessings
Patti

Patti-Drive safe, and I'm praying for you and Tipper. You are in the BEST hands at PVSEC. I have such faith in thier entire staff. love and hugs

[Tina]

Patti, I just got caught up on Tipper, and I am wishing you the best of luck with things today. You and Tipper are in my prayers and I will be thinking about you. I will be watching for an update.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[addy]

Hang in there, you are doing just fine, best of luck today

[Squirt's Mom]

Right by your side, Patti! I think the radiologist is a good idea - that person will more than likely perform the test and read the results, which is the best approach IMO. That is also the person most likely to be familiar with that particular machine and any quirks it may have. ;) They may sedate Tipper to make sure she will be still and more easily positioned with less resistance which would allow them to see the most they can so don't worry if they want to sedate her - it is a mild sedation and would help them as well as her.

I think this is a good plan, honey, tho I know it is stressful on you both to have to see the vets so frequently lately. I am praying you leave with a more definitive answer as to what may be going on in there.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Woodydog]

Popping into top up the prayers for you and Tipper:)

[Mel-Tia]

Me too.

Sorry I haven't been about much. Am thinking of you. I did ask Tia yesterday and today to look after you both

Tight hugs to you and kisses to Tipper the Ripper.

Mel
Xxxxxx

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

Tipper is in the best hands possible today. Prayers for both of you!

[Trixie]

Patti- Hoping everything went well today. Thinking of you and Tipper and sending lots of positive thoughts your way.

Barbara

[Budsters Mom]

I'm still here Patti, waiting and thinking of you and Tipper the Ripper.:p

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone;
What a day, I will have to explain a lot tomorrow as we are exhausted. First there was terrible road construction and it made me 15 minutes late for her eye appt. I called on the way and told them what was happening. I ran into the Dr's office with her and the Dr. who I have known for many years began screaming at me and having a hissy fit in front of everyone. I just burst out crying and told him I was sorry as the construction would not let me thru. The drive is over 2 hours. He started yelling and telling me he had a patient under sedation, and how terrible I am for doing this. I could not stop crying the whole time he examined her. He said she has hemorrhages in her retina. Asked if she had high blood pressure and I said no, maybe 2 times in a year it was high. He said they are extremely tiny. She is to be kept calm- great what about storms?? I need to talk to my vet. I ran downstairs with her after the appointment- he charged me double- I guess to show me a thing or two. She has to go back in 4-6 weeks for a recheck. I got to the ultra sound in time. We went over things that the other Dr. giving the other US told me. I was there almost 4 hours and was getting a sick feeling. There was an older lady sitting by me that tried to make me feel better. Tipper's stomach was making gurgling, gastro sounds by this time. I asked for something to calm her stomach, as I know that hurts. They gave her Cerenia and that helped. Basically everything the Dr. at the first US told me she told me the opposite. I am really upset. She said Tipper has a large Gallstone. She also said her right Adrenal is fine ( the one with the vena cava etc.). The left adrenal has a tumor. We did not discuss size it will be in the report. She said it has not gone anywhere else so she is hoping it is non cancerous. She said they could have missed it on the initial diagnosis at my vets, as it may have been a little nub then. My vet diagnosed Pituitary Dependent. So this is a real switch. She also said they use Lysodren on these and was surprised at Tipper being managed so well on the Trilostane. The other scenario is she could have Pit. Dep. cushings and this could be a pheo that she also developed besides that as Leslie said. Although she said those dogs usually have high blood pressure. To know 100% it has to be removed. She said I need to think about all this first. The previous Dr. said he could not find her left adrenal and the object on the screen he pointed to that was like as big as a fifty cent piece had to be her right adrenal. This is the complete opposite of what she told me today. I am sorry but what the hay??? I took Tipper food so I fed her as soon as we got in the car. She was starving and inhaled it and drank like a camel. She has had no Vetoryl today, I will start tomorrow. The IMS said to continue on the new dosage of 20mg and she is going to have to have another check to see if the tumor is growing. Then we need to make decisions after consulting surgeons etc. I will post the report as I will have it by tomorrow probably. I am very concerned about all of this. I am also concerned about her eyes. I almost told him where to go, but I am glad I waited as I found out about her eyes by being silent and letting him rage on. He should be ashamed of himself. The nurse just looked at me like I'm sorry honey. I just wanted to post what I know and get some feedback so I can read it all in the morning as a lot of you have jobs and post at nite. Thank you all for your help in advance. Blessings
Patti

[scoora]

Patti, Oh my gosh. What a day you and Tipper had. That was horrible of the eye doctor to treat you like that. That is so irritating that he yelled at you like that. I am sorry to hear what was found on the US and by the eye doctor. I'm sorry I can't give you any advise as far as this goes but know that Tipper is and will be in my prayers.
Big Hugs

[molly muffin]

That is inexcusable to yell at you for something that wasn't your fault and how dare he make you cry. :(

This is totally wacky compared to what the first US seemed to show. Did they have a copy of the other ultrasound to make comparisons too? My IMS puts all ultrasounds on a DVD for me and then sends a copy to my vet. I'd think they should be able to do that, or hope so. It could be beneficial as they should have all the information possible.

Now what is this about a gallstone? What is the suggestion in regards to that?

The tumor is on the left side they said? and never seen before. Maybe it is small. If it doesn't grow, then is there a possibility that it can be left alone? Would leaving it affect her lifespan? We do have Wally who is currently on medication and his tumor has actually decreased a bit. So, is that a possibility? He is on lysodren to do that, not trilostane.

I think there should be some options for you to consider and some questions that can be answered here.

Hugs and love to you and Tipper
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trixie]

Patti--You must be so tired...emotionally and physically! Do I understand correctly that this eye vet blew his stack at you because you were 15 minutes late?? 15 minutes?? You called ahead that you were stuck by highway construction and he got angry with you...all for 15 minutes?
That is crazy!! Then he charged you double? I can't even believe how awful this man sounds!
Your head must still be spinning from this day. So much different information than what you thought you were dealing with all along.
Hoping that a treatment plan can be worked out asap. maybe it can stay the same for awhile since Tipper has been controlled.

Sounds like Tipper was just the greatest sport through the whole thing.
I'm sorry for everything you've gone through all week. You take the best care of Tipper (and all your babies) and I know you're going to figure this all out Patti and you know everyone here will be right behind you!!

Barbara

[frijole]

Your post hit home with me for a couple of reasons. As you may remember my Annie had a pheochromocytoma tumor (pheo on the adrenal gland). She only had high blood pressure when the tumor was active. She was starved but would not eat for 2 years I opened like 5 cans of food a day to see which one she'd eat that day. Her stomach was always gurgling. Loudly I could hear it across the room. She never vomited, it wasn't pancreatitis - it was gas from the tumor. And lastly she had an ulcerated cornea - it started small and I was a total stranger to treating eyes and I wasted too much time at a local vet before going to a specialist in Omaha (1 1/2 hrs away).... long story I gave her drops for her last year but you must treat the eyes and if that screaming person is your only specialist you gotta deal with them because they are the only shot at knowing which drops are the right drops and how often etc.

It is possible you are dealing with a pheo. In Annie's case she was misdiagnosed and never even had cushing's. She had false positives (it read a pituitary) on the LDDS test twice and on the acth test 5 times. I suspect this is because her sex hormones were elevated and she had some cushing's symptoms from that and her body did create excess cortisol due to the fact it was fighting the tumor.

Please know I'm not trying to scare you but i want you to know your story is bringing back a whole lot of memories. I'm glad you went to the IMS - better to have answers then not. Will look forward to your update tomorrow. Kim

[Simba's Mom]

oh Patti, what a day for you and Tipper, I think it's time to take the bus out girls and visit this eye doctor, he needs some talking to....shame on him, nobody deserves that, you have a sick pup and then have to deal with doc too...so sorry hon, you hang in there, you are doing great!!!
hugs

[Budsters Mom]

Oh Patti,
Your Dave exhausted me just reading about it!:o That eye doctor is a pompous jerk! He should not be treating anyone like that, and if he charged you double, I would really look into that! As Kim said, you might need him. So I guess you have to tread lightly. I would be spitting nails!:mad:

I am so glad that you went to the IMS. Your doctor is way out of his league on this one! One step at a time my dear. Try not to get ahead of yourself. just try to handle what's right in front of your nose at the time. You are doing a great job, but I am worried about you. Your health is not the best and you are under a lot of continuous stress. Please try to take care of yourself too. I know that's really hard!:oxxxx

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,
wow! What a total $#^#@#$#%! You called ahead and nothing you can do about construction traffic unless you're in an ambulance. I am so sorry that you and Tipper has yet again, another horrible experience with someone who aught to know better!

As for the conflicting information, that indicates that the current vet certainly doesn't know enough about Cushings, right?

Despite the horrible part of the day, I am glad that you got to see more qualified people for Tipper's sake and will continue to pray for you both.

[spdd]

I think the way you were treated was completely inexcusable. After you are finished with this guy, I'd be telling him he's going to get some free unwanted publicity.
I'm really sorry to hear your experience was so bad, and can completely understand how emotional this guy made you.
You have done so much for Tipper, and I believe that all this turmoil in the long run will pay off for both you and Tipper.
Keep up the great care you are taking of your baby, Patti you are doing everything humanly possible and you are to be commended for all this upheaval you are going through.
I am away this weekend, but will check back on Monday to see how everything is going.
Please take care of yourself too.

[Squirt's Mom]

Patti, I read your post last nite and got SO MAD I couldn't reply. :mad::mad::mad: I'm still mad this morning. How DARE that asshole treat you that way, treat any one that way! If you paid that creep by check, stop payment on it today and report him to the veterinary association. I would be all over social media telling what he did and said. And if you'll tell me his name and the name of the hospital, I'll call and give him a piece of MY mind. JERK! I would be very concerned that someone who has so little control over their emotions would take it out on my baby. There is no way I would leave my dog in that man's care without me being there every second. :mad: And I would be looking for a new eye doc today. ;)

As for the confusion on the films - it is possible the machine that was first used was not high resolution or the person doing those didn't really know how to position her to get a good look around nor how to read them correctly. I would be more inclined to trust the one from the IMS.

Looking forward to hearing from you sometimes today, sweetie. I hope you and Tipper were able to rest and put some of yesterday out of your mind for a bit.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[scoora]

Patti, Just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and Tipper and praying for you both.
Take care, Big Hugs

[BostonLover]

I cannot believe you were treated that way!!! What an A-HOLE!:mad::mad: Does he realize where his paycheck comes from? This angers me to no end...I cannot imagine how upset you were, and I commend you on your tongue biting ability, because I would have gone postal on his a$$.:mad:

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper and I were exhausted and got a few hours of sleep which was much needed. This morning Tipper did not want to walk. I had to make her. It seems from all this on the table stuff and people holding her legs that they are bothering her. When she does not lay like a frog, I know they are bothering her, and she is laying different. My head is spinning so I just emailed the IMS to ask her some questions about all this. First I will explain the questions I asked her. First of all the other Dr. told me her right adrenal was 2 1/2 times the size it should be and pointed to this round object on the screen about the size of a 50 cent piece. He told me he could not find the left one. Then all this time they told me she had Pituitary dependent Cushings using Trilostane. I can understand that they do not have a machine comparable to the hospitals, but how can you mistake the right adrenal from the left??? And how can you say it is blown up 2 1/2 times it's size??? In the email I told the IMS everything she had told me was the complete opposite of what this Dr. said and pointed to. I will get answers from her. I also asked if there was anything in her abdomen that could resemble what her showed me or was it an anomaly?? I need to know if there are any other problems in her abdomen, or is this other Dr. totally full of crap?? Also when I had her on the last visit the IMS told me Tipper did not have a macro tumor. So I asked her to go back and look at those scans and see if in fact there is any Pituitary tumor at all. If there is then the possibility if this being a pheo is much greater. She said unfortunately they can get both. She said it doesn't fit that the Trilostane is controlling her adrenal dependency as that is done and hard to control even with Lysodren. Which could this also point to pheo?? Does anyone know about this??
Ok onto the report:
Diagnostics:
Right Adrenal normal
Left adrenal enlarged 1.05 X 2.79 cm with irregular surface.
Left Kidney normal 4.55
Right Kidney normal 4.78
Liver multiple ill defined hypoechoic regions
Every other organ was normal, spleen, everything except Gallbladder has a large Gallstone.
Diagnosis:
Left Adrenal Gland Dependency hyperadrenocortism
VS pheochromocytoma VS non functional adenoma
What doesn't fit w/ active cortical tumor is her well controlled Cushings on Trilostane as as usually Lysodren is needed to control this. Also the right adrenal is normal and usually the opposite gland will be smaller .
I need some help and input on all this form as many of you as possible. I have never read up on pheo's as I though I didn't need to. I am scared to death as isn't this the operation that a lot of our babies did not survive? Can anyone give me an idea what the cost of removal of this is if it does in fact come into play I need to know a ballpark idea here.
The day that Tipper's blood pressure went to 190 and I kept asking my vet what should we do/ He said nothing. I am wonder if this event caused the bleeding in her retinas?? I also have another theory. During all the storm was her blood pressure going up from being so stressed and that did it or is it a combo?? In light of this thought I need to seek out something and it may have to be tranquilizers, which is a last resort to stop this stress. What would account for Tipper's pre number going low in fact if this is a pheo and the cortisol was so controlled it went low??
Good thing I never trusted my Vet, and will never think of it now. The one good thing the IMS said is that thank God it is the left adrenal as the right one involves the vena cava and this one can be removed without much worry and trouble. Is that true?? I am questioning everyone at this point as this is my only true source I can rely on. As you can imagine I am sick over all this. Your help will be appreciated greatly as my head is about to explode. One thing I don't know if I forgot to say before. Tipper's blood pressure is always normal with the exception of maybe 3 times in a year, and the IMS said pheo's usually have high blood pressure. She said the Gallstone should not bother her, and unlike humans cannot be dissolved. God Help my Girl, I will go on and get her whatever she needs, no matter what the consequences. I will not quit until I know she is safe. I am still contemplating the eye Dr. fiasco, I am still whirling from it. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Not sure why the IMS thinks Trilostane won't work on adrenal tumors. :confused:

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=491107&sk=&date=&%0A%09%09%09&pageID=4


Historically, functional adrenal tumors are resistant to medical therapy.18 High doses of mitotane may be required to reduce hypercortisolemia, and some patients show no response at all.18 It should be noted, however, that mitotane may have a direct cytotoxic effect on neoplastic adrenal tissue, independent of its ability to effectively control cortisol production.19 Ketoconazole may control clinical signs in up to 30% of dogs, but side effects are commonly reported.20

In contrast, trilostane has been demonstrated to control the clinical signs of hyperadrenocorticism in dogs with adrenocortical tumors, even in dogs with distant metastases.21,22 The drug will not slow tumor growth, but it can control clinical signs and improve patient well-being.21,22

And another link -

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=731453


Ultimately, 22 dogs with ADH were enrolled in this study and treated with trilostane. While this is the largest case series evaluating dogs with ADH, it is still a small population size, so it is possible that small differences between the groups may have gone unrecognized. Despite this, researchers concluded that medical management of dogs with ADH is a viable option and that either trilostane or mitotane may be used.

Maybe there have been more recent studies that contradict these?

It IS possible, tho very rare, that a pup can have both a pituitary tumor and an adrenal tumor...and even tumors on both adrenal glands but these are extremely rare cases. Kim is much more versed in pheos than most here but it is my understanding that with a pheo the BP is not consistently high but rather spikes high at times when the pheo is active - they are not active all the time, I don't think, while the cortisol secreting tumors of Cushing's are active all the time. I don't know if pheos are more active at night or not and might be behind some of the breathing issues. And, yes, it would be possible for Tipper to have a pituitary tumor, a cortisol secreting adrenal tumor PLUS a pheo tumor. However, my confusion is in how large that adrenal gland got in so short a time and if this is ADH, why the other gland is normal size. I would think if the Trilo were causing the enlargement, both would react similarly...but again, what do I know? :)

As for how they could confuse the left with the right, let me share an experience I had with my daughter. She had pneumonia and when the doctor was showing me her films, he pointed to the right lung to show me the cloudy area. As he was talking, he suddenly stopped, pulled the film off the light box and turned it over. He had hung it up there backwards and it was the LEFT lung that had fluid. ;)

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Is the 2.89 on the tumor large? I do not know the size comparison with what, an eraser on a pencil??- and it could have been that large all this time and the idiot at the vets did not know or reading it incorrectly?? Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm not sure what is considered a normal size for an adrenal gland. I'll have to research that! :o

[frijole]

I'm at work and can't post alot but dogs with pheos don't always have high blood pressure. That is why most are never diagnosed. The blood pressure only goes high when the tumor is active (it emits basically adrenaline) and trust me it almost always happened at night with my Annie so by the time I drove 5 hours to the closest IMS her BP was normal.

Gotta go but I will check back in later. Kim

[addy]

I just checked Zoe's ultra sound from April 2013. Her left adrenal measures .96cm cranially and 1.1cm caudally. I can go back to her original ultra sound to get the original measurement from 2010when I get home tonight unless I can find it here on my work computer.

[Squirt's Mom]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21467755

[addy]

Pros and cons of Lysodren vs Vetoryl
So which drug to use—mitotane or trilostane? If the dog has PDH, she should respond clinically to either drug (1,4-6), but if an expanding pituitary tumor is present, that might lead to neurological signs within a few months (3,7). If the dog has an adrenal tumor, the standard doses of mitotane would be unlikely to help, but this failure to control the cortisol levels would help "suggest" that an adrenal tumor is the underlying cause (1,8,9).

Use of standard doses of trilostane, on the other hand, is more effective in lowering cortisol values in dogs with adrenal tumors so this may be the way to go if the client refuses any additional workup (6,10). However, if adrenal carcinoma is present, this drug would do nothing to stop tumor invasion or metastasis. And again, if the dog has non-suppressible PDH with a pituitary macrotumor, this might lead to neurological signs within a few months.

Dr. Mark Peterson blog

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I am still as confused as ever about all this. I don't know if she has Pituitary Dependency and a pheo or just Adrenal dependency. I am waiting for the IMS to email me some answers to the questions I asked. It doesn't seem to me that this adrenal gland is large according to the info Leslie sent me. Of course my vet is away again, won't be back until Monday. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
Stop and breathe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are going to give yourself a heart attack or a stroke!:eek::eek:This will all become clearer and sort itself out. I feel very confident that it will. Right now you are still in shock and understandably so.:o You have all of us here helping in every way we can. You and Tipper have literally tons of love, prayers and support surrounding you. We aren't going anywhere, so stop and breathe! Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
The IMS has not emailed back my answers yet. Her assistant did call me however and tell me that she would want to check the tumor in 6-8 weeks unless I decided on surgery. They are to set up a consult with a surgeon for 125.00. I do not know if I should do this as they will not tell you how much this will cost until then. I could pay out 125.00 for a consult and have her tell me how much it will cost only to find out I cannot afford it. I would sell my car, but then how would I get her around? If anyone can give me a cost for this I would appreciate it. I told them to call me after Monday to set something up as I am overwhelmed right now, and need time for the forum to help me sort thru this. My other question is how much of a life span is this going to give her if I do this operation. I have searched on the forum and seen many different estimates from 1 year to 5. For 1 year is it worth putting her thru this bad surgery, or letting her go on as long a she possibly can like this. What if they remove it and she then has a pituitary one also?? I have been through 1000 scenarios in my head today. I have to take Tipper to the consultation, and do I really want to make her do this again after yesterday?? She is fed up with all this, it is making her crazy and me too. Blessings
Patti

[frijole]

Hello. Again, let's focus on the facts. We don't know what we are dealing with and you don't have enough info to make a decision re surgery yet. The only way you get that info is with the consult.

I would have no idea how much it cost but its definitely in the thousands of dollars. Oh boy that really helped huh? If you want I could add adrenal tumor to your thread title and then those that have dealt with them would tend to come in and read... trust me that is how it works. ;):)

You asked about Annie's breathing problems. I found the part in her thread where I linked videos. One showing her stumbling on stairs (her legs would give out suddenly and then she'd run around like a puppy), another with the breathing/body shaking and lastly a link just to show how her stomach was huge (from enlarged organs) - Glynda and I were having a conversation at the time and a big tummy like this is NOT a cush dog - it's a skinny dog with enlarged liver, heart etc.

Go til you see the video links:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=933&page=72

Kim

[Trixie]

Patti,
I wish I had some knowledge to share but I don't know enough about this to help. Just wish you and Tipper weren't going through this. So many contradictions and confusion about the diagnosis have made things difficult to figure out. I really hope the vet, the IMS or both, along with the experts here will be able to guide you to a treatment decision.
Hope Tipper had an okay day after all yesterday's long day. Hoping you can get some sleep tonight too.

Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,
one step at a time. Find out exactly what you're dealing with. I would write down your questions and insist on answers during the consult.

HUGS

[scoora]

Prayers and hugs to you and Tipper.

[Simba's Mom]

One day at a time hon, sending hugs and prayers, you are doing great

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
Buddy did not have the same problem as Tipper, but I did take him for a consult with a a neurosurgeon and two neurologists. Yes! The price of surgery would have been way out of my price range, but they felt he probably wouldn't be a good candidate for it anyway, as he was already having advanced neural symptoms. Even though I did not go that route, it was money well spent. It answered many questions that I needed to know in order to formulate a plan for Buddy. That neurosurgeon at the specialty hospital that I couldn't afford, ended up working with my vet and overseeing Buddy's care until the end. Anyway, the reason I told you this story was to recommend getting the consult anyway. It will give you a more complete picture in order to devise the best plan possible for Tipper's care. It is okay to admit that you can't afford thousands of dollars. All any of us can do is the best we can.xxxxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
After a nite of virtually no sleep we are up and at it again. Tipper did walk this morning. This is the first morning in a long time I did not want to get up. At this time I prefer sleeping if I could so my mind shuts off. I cannot hardly deal with thinking of all this as when I see my girl I cannot help but start to cry, and I go away from her so she does not see me. I guess I was living in a little protective bubble where nothing could penetrate. Now I am forced back into reality with all of this uncertainty. I will start writing my questions down for the consult. Kathy I am taking your advise and going. The uncertainty of things right now is what is really making me a nervous wreck. Last nite I thought to myself what if the round object on the screen as big a s a fifty cent piece is in fact the tumor??/ If it is it is very large, and I would see no other way than for it to come out. It was not even there on the last US. I still have not heard form the IMS on the questions I asked her. Now that I think of it she never offered to tell me the size of the tumor. Maybe she was not going to unless I asked as she thought it would be too much for me to handle. I have asked her in the questions I emailed her. In the midst of all this the vets office was supposed to order my Lucky's medicine for his gallbladder a week ago and they keep telling me it is not in. I am completely out of it and waiting to see if it comes today and I have to take Tipper in the car and go and get it. I am already thinking of ways to get money together, this will be a daunting task, as I have used what I had saved for her, and then all these appointments and testing took it all. She has a fairly good nite sleeping. I would be lying if I didn't say this is the most I have been depressed and upset since my dad's passing. Pray for my girl. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Kim:
Please add the adrenal tumor to my thread, you can even remove the trouble breathing if you want to as it is a mute point now.
I looked at the video of Annie shaking and that is not what Tipper seems to do. Her is more like twitching and muscle contractions. The body shape of Annie is similar to Tipper though even though everyone has told me Tippers heart and liver are not enlarged. Thank you for all your help. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Patti,
I changed the thread title to reflect the addition of the adrenal tumor.

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Thank you it is always comforting to me to hear from you, some how it calms me. In a while when you have time I will need to know your thoughts on all this and any particular questions you would ask the surgeon. Thank You Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Everyone:
I may be slow at reading your threads for a while I am trying to get as much prepared research wise, money wise etc., if Tipper has to have an operation. Know that if I do not comment on your thread I may have still read it. I need to concentrate my time on this for now. Please all of you I need your comments and questions you would ask the surgeon, I can't leave any stone unturned. I need you support and help now more than ever, and I thank you all in advance for it. Blessings
Patti

[frijole]

It's critical the surgeon has alot of experience. Ask them how many of these surgeries they've done and what the success rate has been. Ask specifically about the size and location of the tumor. Ask what the pre and post op treatment plan is (some give meds before surgery also). Ask if Tip is a good candidate based on size and location of tumor as well as other physical issues namely the breathing. Have a video on your phone ready to show a breathing episode so they can see what you are describing.

But the single most important question is to look him/her in the eyes as human being and ask if this was your dog what would you do? Then shutup and listen and look at the eyes - I'd guess that will give you your answer.

Another thing to be sure to tell this vet is just how critical Tipper is to your universe. Others that have gone through this have indicated that their vets told them they must be prepared to lose their pet in order to save them.

I highly suggest you read the threads of people that have gone through this as you will see their journey was very similar regarding research, interviewing etc. I have to leave for the day but will come back tonight and try to give you some links to others threads.

We don't expect replies to everything we say - you just take care of you and Tipper. Knowledge is power and you are doing the right thing by reading and focusing. We are here to help as needed. Kim

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
I have asked the question before to a surgeon about it being his dog, would they do the surgery. This is with another fur baby I had at the time. I snuck that question calmly in, right in the middle of a bunch of technical questions and caught him off guard. Observing body language and watching the eyes is critical. His eyes darted all over, then looked down, avoiding eye contact. He shifted in his seat a couple of times. I calmly waited him out. He finally said, "No, probably not." I had my answer. Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Kim and Kathy:
Thank you for your help. You two brought up the number one thing I always do with any of my babies. I ask the Dr. straight forward if this was your dog and knowing your abilities would you do this? I am writing down all the questions you all give me to ask. I am leaning on all of you now, as every 10 minutes I crumble. The question about are you willing to lose your dog to save it. I can't truthfully answer that because Tipper is my universe, but I do not want her to suffer and have a terrible death. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Quick comment for everyone. I have an appointment scheduled to see the surgeon with Tipper for Sept 6th at 2:00 pm. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Good! That gives us time to help you gather some questions. ;)

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
Again thank you just hearing from you seems to put me at ease. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Yes, Leslie has that same tranquil effect on all of us!;):)

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well it has been 7 days since I started Tipper on the 20 mg Vetoryl. She is starting to show uncontrolled signs already. Some panting, hungry at nite and wanting more food, and restlessness. Actually more noise again when trying to breathe at nite. Now I am not sure what we will do. If 30 mg is driving her pre number down too far and 20 is not enough, my best guess would be a 20/10 split, because they only want Vetoryl. I asked the IMS about using the Vetoryl if this is an adrenal tumor, she said keep using it. That way she is still not getting all 30mg at once, but will have 10 at 7:00 at nite to stop the hunger etc. This will be crazy expensive. I sat here yesterday and tried to figure out how I can afford this operation if that is the decision I make. Yesterday the hospital called me and told me 2500.00 - 3500.00 would be the cost. I have no Veterinary School near me they are all many hours away. I would be afraid of the travel time on Tipper. I am just scared that a private surgeon working at a private hospital may not be as experienced as what I would get in a veterinary school. The surgeon that I am seeing is a woman, that has had 3 xtra years on top of her board certified training in tumor removal. She trained in the hospital where Dr. Bruyette is. I will shoot him an email and see what he thinks of all this. I still have not heard back from my IMS on the questions asked. I know she is really busy. This has really put me in a dark place, I am having a hard time dealing with this. I have reached out to some people in Pgh. to be on the lookout for a good motel that takes dogs close to this hospital. I will have to stay there probably a week in case Tipper would have any complications. I can't possibly think of bringing her home with no emergency place around, and they would know virtually nothing about this I am sure. I have had so many break downs over this I quit counting. I am counting on you all for surgeon questions. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' sweetie,

I'm sorry the signs are getting stronger, adding to your worries. Hopefully the 20/10 split will be acceptable and will help. If this is a cortisol secreting tumor, it often takes higher than normal doses to control the cortisol so these signs could be attributed to what is going on with her adrenals. If it is due to a pheo, you may see those signs come and go as that tumor is switching from active to non-active and back again. ;)

As you know, there have been several cases of adrenal tumors, both cushing's tumors and pheos, lately. Flynn was one of those with a pheo and based on her own experiences plus observations here Trish put together a great list of questions for us not long ago.

Part I is for owners in the initial stages, when an adrenal tumor has been identified and they are considering if surgery is even an option for their dog. Part II is for when surgery has been decided upon and what questions might help when they are discussing it with their surgeon.

Part I - Questions to ask when considering if surgery is an option for your dog’s adrenal tumour:

1. What type of tumour do you suspect, functional, non-functional, pheochromocytoma, benign, metastatic
2. Expected life span for my dog in a normal situation. If your dog is close to, at or past his expected lifespan for his breed is surgery going to be of any benefit?
3. Prognosis for my dog if we treated medically i.e. with Cushings medications. AND if we do not proceed with surgery how long do you think it would be before the tumour started adversely affecting his quality of life?
4. If he is miserable now, does the benefit of potentially risky surgery outweigh his current quality of life?
5. Are there any other health problems that could impact on a positive surgical outcome, for example: if your dog is overweight or has heart, BP, liver, kidney or lung conditions
6. Is there any sign of tumour spread – imaging should be done, including ultrasound and on advice of specialists either CT or MRI to check whether there is local invasion around the tumour, into blood vessels including vena cava or spread further away in the body to lungs etc
7. Surgeon recommendations – would he/she do it for their own dog?
8. Psychological impact for the owner: It is important to understand this is risky surgery, sadly current guidelines indicate 1:5 dogs do not make it, and some recommendations are not even that high. Can you accept it if your dogs dies during or in the postoperative recovery period surgery? This is where it is important to weigh up whether the benefit of your dog being fully cured is worth the risk of possibly losing him.
9. Financially – can you afford it? Find out estimate of costs.
10. Hopefully this will not happen, but if your dog collapses, e.g his heart stops either during his surgery or afterwards what emergency measures should be undertaken, do you want your dog to have CPR, how far are you (the owner) willing to go for your dog to be saved in such circumstances

Part II - Surgery has been recommended as treatment for your dogs adrenal tumour, here are a few suggestions on what questions you should ask your surgeon:

1. Are you board certified? How many operations of this type have you done? What complications have you experienced? What were the outcomes?
2. Please explain to me how you will do the surgery, which part would likely give you the most trouble? Will you be doing the actual surgery or a resident in a teaching situation? If so, is their close supervision?
3. Will there be a specialist anaesthetist available for the surgery?
4. If it hasn’t been done, do we need a CT/MRI scan to look at the tumour more closely to check for vena cava involvement or any other tumour spread?
5. What are the risks associated with this surgery, including
• Bleeding (including trauma to blood vessels or other organs during surgery)
• clots
• Blood pressure or heart problems such as arrhythmias
• pancreatitis
• pneumonia
• kidney failure
• infection
• wound problems
• bowel problems
• anaesthetic risks
• adrenal insufficiency or electrolyte abnormalities
• death (sorry but you have to ask that risk too)
6. If we proceed with surgery does my dog need preoperative treatment with Cushing’s meds, antihypertensive if high blood pressure is a problem – phenoxybenzamine recommended pre-operatively for dogs with pheochromocytoma, anticoagulants or anything else?
7. How will you treat to prevent clots post-operatively?
8. What would you do if you found anything else during the surgery i.e. nodules in other organs e.g. spleen, opposite adrenal, liver, kidney. Would you remove them and what are the risks associated when doing additional abdominal surgery together with adrenalectomy
9. How long will it take and when will you contact me so I know all is OK, when can I visit after surgery?
10. How will the postoperative period go, how long would you anticipate he would need to stay in hospital? How will we manage pain?
11. What monitoring would be needed, e.g. heart monitoring, oxygen levels in the postoperative period
12. If your dog has an adrenocortical tumour affecting cortisol production will he need to be on steroids following surgery and for how long?
13. If there are problems when I take him home, who do I contact? Hopefully the surgical team until all is stable.

For Tipper specifically, I would add to these wonderful questions some concerning her throat - how will they handle that? What will they do to monitor her breathing? What are the odds breathing tubes would be used..or other instruments that need to go down the throat? I am sure they will realize she has had an issue with this when they read her records, but I would want to be sure this was discussed. In my little mind, it is feasible her breathing issues are due to whatever is going on with the adrenals (especially if this is a pheo) and if that is corrected, her breathing will be improved as a result. ;)

I know you are having a hard time finding things to be hopeful about, to hold onto, so just know that I have hope enough for us both until you are able to have your own. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
You have been my guiding light and savior thru this whole journey. I appreciate everything you have taken your precious time to do, and help me for Tipper. I am so scared for her that all I can do is cry. Some how when I hear form you it helps me get thru this. I guess knowing how strong you are and how many babies you have helped seems to bring me to a calm place. I am wondering how Squirt has done/ Is she off the antibiotic? I hope she is doing well, and can put all this behind her. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Everyone;
I just emailed Dr. Bruyette and asked him about the hospital and surgeon I am meeting with as she supposedly came from his hospital. I asked him for any help he can offer me as far as advise, what he knows about this surgery, and any way he can help me decide what to do. I have some people already looking into places I could possibly stay with Tipper for about a week that would be clean and cheap, as I will hardly be able to come up with all this money. I may have to go to the bank and ask for a personal loan, if I decide to do this surgery, they may say no because my income is so low now. I had a complete stranger, a woman email me and offer me her house, where we are welcome to have our own room, for Tipper to recuperate. What a wonderful human being!! She is 30 minutes away from the hospital, that may be too far so I will see . Peoples generosity toward animals never ceases to amaze me. God Bless her heart of gold. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

That is great that someone offered to help you and Tipper! :cool::cool::cool: I was talking to another member here just a bit ago about how wonderful our cush family is and how amazing it is that so many dog folk who never met can come together to help each other out when needed. Total strangers reaching out helping hands simply because they love dogs and their parents who work so hard, like you, to do their very best in spite of what are often challenging circumstances. Things like this help keep my faith in our all-to-often horrible species from completely failing. ;)

[goldengirl88]

Leslie:
It does give you hopes for humanity doesn't it??

Everyone:
I just received an email back from Dr. Bruyette. This man is so busy and he always answers me promptly. He said he personally knows the surgeon I am scheduled to talk to, and he said do not worry about a thing with her. That is such a relief to hear from someone of his stature. I am crying right now typing this. He wants all Tipper's initial testing to see if he can determine if she also has pituitary dependency. He expressed that he was sorry to hear of this mess up with her. He may use her test results in his studies of this disease also, so my Tipper may be able to help another dog, and that is wonderful. My world just has fallen in in the last week with all this going on with my baby. I am forging on and doing the best things I can to get knowledge and gain power. I am reaching out to every source I possibly can, for any help/information. I have said it many times before, I will not let this disease take my Tipper, I will not. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Patti, sending you great big hugs. Dr. Bruyette is a gem. He has helped so many and always seems to take time to go that extra bit to make us feel better.
This is certainly an unexpected and unwelcome surprise, when everything seemed to be showing straight out pituitary and her other ultrasound had been okay. (if I am remember that correctly)
Waly has an adrenal tumor and is being treated I think with lysodren and it has shrunk a little bit.
You have probably read over that thread already, but just wanted to mention it. I hope they can distinguish whether this is a pheo or a straight out adrenal tumor that you are dealing with, so you will know what you're options area.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

I'm so happy that you're getting answers!!!!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
This has not been my best weekend, with that being said I need to change Tipper's meds. I am going to call Dechra as soon as I get home from my urologist. I have gotten together a 25 page fax for Dr. Bruyette on the blood work and testing on Tipper to date, and I am emailing him the report from the IMS. I hope he can give some insight into what exactly is going on with Tipper. He did tell me 10% that have adrenal tumors will also have pituitary tumors. My fax broke, wouldn't you know it. I cannot get it to stop saying paper jam, I think it is in the computer cause there is no jam. I am taking the papers to my vets and have them fax them. They better not give me any trouble as I am not in the mood for crap. After all I could have called their office and had them get all this ready, but instead did it myself. Tipper was ravenous last nite. My only solution is 20mg @ 7am, and 10 at 5pm as she starts getting hungry then. This will cost a fortune this way and I am already worried about money. I will have to buy 3 packs of 10mg a month which will over double the cost. I am so far down in that deep hole right now, but I am still functioning for her sake. I just don't want to get up in the morning and think about the consequences of all this. My neighbor called me yesterday and asked how I was, and that she hasn't seen me in over a month. I almost had a breakdown, but kept it together and told her I was just spending time with Tipper. I don't even want to go to the urologist today and have to have a sitter for Tipper. I will just hurry and get back asap. Blessings
Patti

[LabDad]

Patti,

I do feel for you and Tipper. Do try to keep your appointment, I felt the same with when Lulu was sick. You know I just got upset. Now with Stanley things have calmed down, though we want to get a professional trainer for him. He just isn't good with strange men coming to the door, so we are hoping with training he can be made to feel that his home isn't threatened. :)

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I had to leave the urologists office before seeing him. I waited over an hour only to find out they did not have my Xrays showing if I had passed the stone, and did not have my blood work. I have never had a panic attack in my life, but felt I was going to. I told them to call me with the results as I have a very ill dog at home and have to go back home asap. I though about my Tipper the whole time I was sitting there, and was so nervous I wanted to leaven anyway. I just got home and got bad news from Dr. Bruyette he said it looks like Tipper has pituitary dependency with either a non active adrenal tumor or pheochromcytoma. I have to email him and see if he picked that up from the report from the IMS I emailed him or the 25 pages of testing and blood work I had the vets email him. I am so frightened I can barely deal with daily things that need doing. This means she would have to have the operation or she could have a bad death if it is a pheo. I have to get money together and figure out where I can stay and how I can do all this, and have someone take care of my critters at home. I called Dechra and am waiting for them to call me back about what to do on Tipper's dosage. Mean while what will happen if she gets the adrenal tumor out, and they give them prednisone for a while, and she can't have it because of the pituitary tumor and taking Vetoryl for it?? I need some help so please give me some advise. How could this precious loving baby have two of these tumors? I cannot understand this. It is bad enough for people to deal with one. I am just off the charts with this. Sorry but I need to let it out. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok, sweetie....I want you to sit down somewhere comfortable, rather dark and quiet, close your eyes, fold your hands in your lap loosely, then take a deep breath through your nose and slowly let it out through your mouth - repeat....do it again....and now again. Continuing to breath in through your nose and out through your mouth, slowly roll your head around in a circle first to the left, then to the right. Roll your head in both directions, remembering to continue the slow breathing, several times. Now, continuing the slow breathing, your hands loose in your lap, lay your head back and just relax. I want you to allow all these emotions a release. They need to be expressed fully. In your more relaxed state, let all your grief and fear surface then come roaring out of you with a vengeance. Don't listen to that little voice who will try to tell you that you are wasting precious time - this is precious time for you. Cry til you cannot breath; scream a primordial scream; whatever possesses you, allow it to come. Flow with it, ride the waves until there are no more for now. When you have no more to give right then, get up and go take a long hot soak in a soft perfumed bath, or take a walk alone, or take a short nap. Let your emotions out, then let yourself respond to the lightened load as best works for you.

For the remainder of the day and night, do not look at lab reports, emails from vets, studies or internet pages, this site....nothing connected to what is going on with our sweet Tipper. As Addy says, put all of that in a drawer, shut the drawer and lock it just for the rest of today. Instead, do something you used to enjoy but have not given much time to lately like a hobby or watching soap operas or reading a book you've wanted to read - anything that brings you joy and fulfillment. The single most important factor in ensuring our babies get the very best care is us. So we must tend to ourselves first and foremost always. If our bodies fail from stress, our babies will pay the price as much as we.

Nothing will be done today, no decisions must be made today...but Tipper and we need you to be as strong as you possibly can when the time comes to make decisions and take action. So you must take care of yourself and allow yourself to feel all the emotions that are flooding your Soul. Otherwise, they will destroy you and none of us want that. I know so well that feeling, and belief, that if we let ourselves go, everything will fall apart. For years, I would not allow myself to feel the emotions that were killing me, literally. I had become an expert at building walls around them, thinking I was protecting myself and others. What I learned, and the hard way, was that by bottling things up I was creating a tsunami that eventually came crashing in with a force that was unbelievable. Now, I do allow those feeling a life, a right to be expressed whenever they appear. It was a hard lesson to learn but one that saved my sanity.

Please listen, do as I ask just for today. I only ask because I care so much about you and Tipper.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[spdd]

Amen Leslie... Patti please do this. It's so important for you and in the long run benefits Tipper too.

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Sorry I have not chimed in for a day or two...was on eldercare duty with my mother and no internet available. Just now getting caught up with posts.
Wow...just so sorry for what you're going through...the feeling of panic is not a good one. It's all over whelming...all of it. You probably need a good night's sleep but I know that will probably not happen with the worries you have.
Wish I had some kind of knowledge that would give insight. I don't--so for now I'll just say I'm praying for all of this to work out for you and Tipper. Hoping the for the best outcome!
Barbara

[frijole]

I agree with Leslie!

Meanwhile you confused me because you said if it's a pheo he'd die. That isn't true. Trish's dog had a pheo and lived.

Also note he said 'it looks like it is pituitary cushings'. That isn't yet a fact, it's an opinion. You need to find out why he said that. Annie's tests all showed pituitary cushings but she didn't have it - they couldn't rule it out until they did the cat scan at K State on the heavy duty eqpt.

Flip side it is a non-functioning adrenal tumor or a pheo it may be that you can opt out of having it removed.

Remember Tipper needs a healthy mom. You can't skip these appts forever. Take care of yourself so you can take care of Tip and are healthy and strong enough to make the decisions up the road.

When is your meeting with the surgeon? Thanks and I hope you don't see this for a while because you are off relaxing somewhere. HUgs, Kim

[doxiesrock912]

Honey, please don't put the cart before the horse. As you have written, these are possibilities and not yet confirmed.

You also know that every dog is different so please don't assume that nothing can be done for Tipper before finding out for certain what is going on with her.

Lastly, find a way to calm down so that you can enjoy your time with Tipper and so that you remain healthy for both of you. Don't give into the panic. You're much to smart for that.

HUGS

[Squirt's Mom]

Good mornin',

I hope you had a more relaxing day and feel a bit calmer this morning about things. Can't begin to tell you the number of times I have had full blown panic attacks in public...like vet offices. ;) Doc offered to tranquilize me when I took Trinket in to be spayed because I was losing it just thinking of her going under anesthesia again after taking 3 days to wake up the last time she was under. I have some tricks I use that help. I memorized statistical formulas and would recite them out loud or write them down, poems and recite them aloud - a few things that require my mind to pay attention so I get it right....and that usually helps push the panic back.

Of course, today I have NO idea what those stats formulas mean nor could I apply them....but remembering the weird little symbols and the order they have to go in with parenthesis, brackets and so on is challenging enough that it helps my mind remain present - not flopping around on the floor or dashing around flapping in the air. :p I have also been known to use that primordial scream - which my neighbors adore. :D Or using a 2X4 to beat a clothesline pole or making bread and punching the crap outta the dough. These and others are stress relievers for me when things start piling up and I feel that horrible skin-crawlie, shaky, sweaty, mind-numbing fear coming on. I spend time outside every day, not working but simply soaking in Mother Nature and all Her beauty, watching the sunrise while sipping coffee, watching the sun set in the evenings. These times are mine and mine alone - no pups, no humans with me. Just me and Mother Nature. I find these moments very healing. ;)

I hope you and Tipper had a restful night.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well last nite we had a storm. It really got my stomach in a knot even though I was trying to remain calm. I got worried about Tipper's blood pressure rising, and the bleeding in her retinas. I can't say I am calm today, but I am trying to keep my emotions in check. You know I had this very experience with my dad and that is why in the back of my mind I am in a panic. I had the same sick feeling every morning I woke up knowing I was one day closer to my dad passing. It is no different with Tipper. It will be God's will now again as it was in the past. Because I have lost my whole family to tragic deaths it is hard for me to keep sane. I have been through this too many times for my age. Tipper is all I have left, and I need her badly. I have formulated a plan even though I am not mentally with it right now. After researching the outcome of operations on these adrenal glands I called the IMS. She was not in until Wednesday so I asked her assistant to tell her I need the following. Tipper's CT scan from her scoping procedure, and the size of her tumor. I need to know first if there is any tumor found at all on her pituitary. Then I need to know the size of the one on the adrenal gland. If it is 5 centimeters or larger the outcome after removal is not good. If it is the large round object the first Dr. pointed to , I can safely say that it is over 5 centimeters. If this is a pheo it could send a sudden rush from high blood pressure to her heart and kill her. If it is an adenoma, and 5 centimeters or over it cannot be removed without a high death rate. It would seem any route is not a good one, so I will start with the pituitary and go from there. After being in my vets office to get Lucky's medicine after it finally came, I told the receptionist I had to speak to my vet, it was important about Tipper and to have him call me. He never called needless to say. It is not a good feeling when your ship is sinking and all the rats are jumping off. I know he does not want to hear it about his lousy US machine , and the lousy Dr. reading it. I have reached out to Dr. Bruyette again about the mortality of this operation etc. I have not heard back yet to see if he has gone over her blood work. I called Dechra yesterday about Tipper's dosage change, never heard from them either. I hope to hear today. That is where things sit today. I can't help feeling Tipper is a ticking time bomb, and it is taking all I can do to keep going. I do it for her, and if she gives me any sign she wants out I will help her. I though of that all nite. I would never be able to with stand seeing her in distress and not being able to help her or end it for her. God help me I have given though to putting her to sleep before something bad happens to her. I would never want her to have to deal with a catastrophic event. It would kill me. That is why I am very cautious to always make sure she is not suffering with anything. I cannot let her do that because of myself needing her. I would always think of her first. It is different when you have others in and around you in your life to talk this over with and get support from. I have no one but this wonderful forum, so I hope you all understand where I am coming from, as the hole is deep where I am at. I pray nothing bad happens waiting for all these Dr.'s and answers. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi Patti,

If you are like me, I'm like a dog with a bone and I cant let things go, so it is often hard to take my own advice and put Cushings in the drawer and lock it up for awhile.:o:o

I was given some wise advice from Zoe's GP before he left the practice. He told me to pick my battles carefully, that there was so much wrong with Zoe, I could not win every battle. I know you will pick your battle carefully.

Anticipatory grief is a hard thing to deal with, it can cloud our judgment while we weigh the options and it is hard to control. I have to go to work everyday so it was a blessing in a way, I was forced to clear my mind, as hard as it was. I totally agree even just a walk, alone for an hour to sit in a park or near a pond to just breathe and be can help calm the mind and allow us to see things in a different light.

I dont know what God plans for Zoe or for Tipper. I know there are days I feel I am strong enough to handle her death and days I feel I cannot bear it. So I offer you my shoulders too, to lean on, Patti, as you struggle with so much information to decide the best path forward.

Just remember, Tipper is still here today, right now. She has not been taken from you. So each day, one day at a time, rejoice in Tipper, hold her, smell her and just be.

Much love

[Squirt's Mom]

Ticking time bomb....yes, I know that one as well and live with it on a daily basis with Squirt and Brick. I know in my gut something is wrong with Squirt internally- another tumor, gall bladder or liver disease, something that is ticking away second by second....and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I can't afford an US to look inside, I couldn't afford surgery nor would I ask that of Squirt at this stage of her life. So whatever it is, will be. And what is to come, will come.

Brick is a little miracle in that his body will drain those pockets in his head, relieving the pressure, preventing horrible effects from the pressure. I live with fear his tiny body will one day no longer be able to drain enough fluid and I will have no choice but to let him go as I will not let him suffer.

I've given all I have financially - there is no more to spare. I have no more to give up in order to make ends meet.

I wish I was in your shoes with options and the ability to meet them somehow but I'm not. If we had options, if we had any hope of addressing those options, I would be so very grateful. All I can do is the best I can for my babies with the little I have and cherish each and every second they are with me and ok. Because the day IS coming when they will not be ok, and I will have only one option - to let them go. :(

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

You sound like you have given up but I know you are strong and have not. Shake the funk!

I will address the pheo. Yes it can cause a heart attack. I repeat - my Annie lived for two years (or more who knows) with a pheo. It was intermittent. She lost weight, wouldn't eat, had an ulcerated cornea but she was one very happy dog to her last day on earth. She had a strong will to live and you would never have known there was a thing wrong with her EVER. People would see this emaciated hairless dog and be all sad and she'd go running into acupuncture with a big smile on her face as if she was on Cloud 9.

Don't give up. I didn't and I had many happy days with my girl as a result. I know you won't give up. Kim

[goldengirl88]

Kim:
I guess out of wanting to protect her at all costs I keep thinking of what I can do so she does not experience this. I am so scared of the adrenal surgery, especially if there is a pituitary on top of this. Many of these surgeries have fatalities, so the chances of her making it out of the O.R. are not real high. I feel like I would be sending her to a certain death. I am torn this is very hard to deal with after all she and I have been through together. If it is the pheo making her have bleeding in the retinas, how long will she be able to endure that before losing her sight?? There are just so many unanswered questions. I have never been so distraught before. I had a dream her and I went to sleep and neither of us ever woke up, we stayed together. Right about now that does not seem too bad to me. I called my vet's office to find out why he never called me yesterday, she said he was in today and that he got the message, well isn't that just great. I am anxious to hear what you have about the pheos to explain to me.Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Oh Patti,
I don't know what to tell you other than to take your clues from Tipper. She will tell you what she needs you to do for her. Trust in that! You are connected at the hip, so you will know when the time comes.

Right after Buddy passed, I did not want to go on without him either. It does get better little by little and I know that's not what Buddy would want. He would want me to be happy above all else. The same goes with Tipper. She adores you and wants you to be happy also. Remember, you have several other babies that need you.;) We need you too!:p

[Simba's Mom]

Oh Patti, yes lots going on, but you have to try take one day at a time, enjoy each precious day that you have with Tipper, try not to waste it worrying, I know thats hard...you know what your furbaby can handle, so you will have to make choices, but know we are right beside you and here if you need us....so breathe, take a walk, clear your mind and enjoy Tipper, he knows you love him....we love you too....hugs

[scoora]

Patti, I am really sorry to hear there is so much going on with Tipper.
I hope you get some answers soon. Praying everything will be just fine with Tipper.
Big hugs to you.

[doxiesrock912]

Kathy,

I couldn't have said it better.

Patti, we all know how you feel believe me! Take your cue from Tipper. You'll know if you have to help her or not. I don't know how to explain it, but you can tell.

Lot's of hugs for you both and we are ALWAYS here for you!

[Trixie]

How are things today? How's Tipper doing? My friend who lives in Pittsburgh told me she had big thunder storms there last night...so I thought of you right away! Hope Tipper was okay if you had those storms too.
We are having some right now...one just blew over. Trixie went under the kitchen table but already popped back out. She got through that one pretty well. Crossing my fingers they're over for now!
Hoping all is okay with you, Tipper and your other furry ones!

Barbara

[BostonLover]

Hope you and Tipper are doing ok today. Just wanted to send you some positive vibes.:)

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well I took my cat for his blood work today, Tipper was supposed to get her blood pressure, but because of the storm last nite and the continuing rain it was a waste of time to take her. Last nite I thought Tipper was going to have a heart attack. It stormed and thundered all nite and would not let up. She panted a wet spot that was huge, shook, ran in circles and back in and out of the closet. It was a horrible nite, I am exhausted. I talked to the vet about tranquilizers as a last resort because of her blood pressure and her eyes. He said with her history he would not want to do that. I asked him if I could sort of knock her out a little with Benedryl as she is safe with that and he said yes. I gave her some when I got home as it was still raining. Now I feel bad cause she is just sleepy a lot. I talked about Tipper's situation with my vet, did not get to go over every little thing. He showed me some papers from what he looked up on the veterinary web site. The stats were not good for dogs having this operation. He said he is very concerned about it, and if it was his dog he would not do it. The hospital called today to answer my questions. The IMS said that Tipper's CT Scan that she had a few months back showed no tumor on her pituitary gland. She said she took the liberty of checking into it as she knew it was a concern of mine. So is it just the adrenal tumor??? Well I sent all the tests to Dr. Bruyette and the IMS findings. He said he thinks it is PD and that the adrenal tumor is secondary. So here are two different opinions. He said he would not operate, but instead do another ultra sound in 2 months seeing if the tumor has grown. The IMS also said Tipper has no other masses in her abdomen, as I was worried about the object the other Dr. showed me on the screen that was as big as a 50 cent piece. It was nothing I guess or she would have seen it with the high resolution. There is nothing showing her that anything has spread to anywhere else in her. The size of the adrenal tumor is contained in the left adrenal measurement, as it is involved with it and cannot be measured alone. The left adrenal is 1.05 X 2.79 cm the right is 0.592 X 2.18. I do not know what to make of all this. I can sure use some ones help that has experience with this. Dr. Bruyette said that it is either a non-functional adrenal tumor or a pheo. Are there any tests to rule in or out for a pheo like blood or urine etc??? I know that you cannot determine 100% unless it is removed, but is there some way to gain an edge on what this is??My vet said most of the stats that he pulled said that the life expectancy gained by removal was an average of 2 years. Tipper will be 12 in October God willing. She has tracheal issues, a heart murmur, vestibular problems, and now retinal issues. She could live out those two years maybe if I do nothing, so why put her thru this terrible surgery? I know the IMS said it will either cure her or kill her. At her age with her problems, even though she is tuff as nails, I am worried about her making it. Not that I need you guys to make decisions for me, I am curious if this were you what would you do?? Even though maybe by all accounts this is a small tumor- I do not know as I am not familiar with these centimeters and measurements done, it is still a terrible operation on an old dog with problems. Her life expectancy in her breed is 16-18 years and I feel so cheated by this. I am torn as to what to do from here. I need some insight from all of you before I go and see the surgeon. I am moving away from the surgery possibility. I think the other day at the ultra sound Tipper let me know she has just about had enough. How much more can I expect from her?? This is an awful position to be in. My only fear is if I just keep treating her and checking on the tumor, that if she would go into distress at home how could I help her ? I need to over come that obstacle some how to decide what to do. I cannot have her in distress with no help and have her suffer, it would kill me. If it were sudden I would be crushed, but it would be better for her and no suffering would be involved. If I had an emergency close it would be different, but I don't. I would appreciate any ideas, thought or help you can give me. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Oh Patti,
This is a call only you can make with guidance from Tipper. When Buddy looked at me with his big, brown, sad, eyes, I knew exactly what he needed me to do for him. There wasn't a doubt in my mind. Knowing he was in pain didn't make it any easier, but Buddy's needs had to come first. It was about what he needed, not what I wanted.

I am not about to tell you what I think you should do, because I don't know. You know Tipper better than anyone. You know how she is feeling and what she needs better than anyone. There does come a time when we have to let them run free. Whether it's Tipper's time, I can't say. Take some time for yourself and pray on it. You will receive your answer when the time is right. The tumor may not even be growing. Please consider that possibility.

Many, many, hugs,

[spdd]

Hi Patti.. I thought I'd take some time tonight to write before I fall into bed.
I'm not much help to you, but I do know that Keesh is getting up there and I've done all I can do for him now. I have some decisions to make as well after tomorrow for his care, but I've done the best I can.
You too have done far more then most in trying to care for Tipper and all I can say is exactly what has been said before.
Pray on it not only for Tipper, but that some answer or decision you actually make can give you some peace. I know we'd go to the ends of the earth for our beloved babies, but when all avenues have been exhausted, you literally need to find some comfort in knowing that you did your best.
We all worry about you and Tipper, these aren't just words.... I am sincere in saying this. You have been such a great support with others, and you deserve all the support you can get.
I know you will make the right decisions, only you know best.
Please take care of yourself and Tipper and I'll be praying for you and your beloved fur babies.

Hugs to you

[doxiesrock912]

Hi honey, we all know how much you would miss Tipper if something should happen.
Did the vet give you exact percentages of success/failure for the surgery?

Given Tipper's age and other issues, I don't believe that I would chance it for the possibility that it might give her two more years and being so risky.

She'll let you know when she's had enough.

As for the benadryl making her sleepy. Can you give her 1/2 the dosage?

[addy]

Oh Patti,

Let us start with the eyes- I am not sure how bad Tipper's bleeding is, Zoe had a bit of that last year and it resolved on its own. Our eye vet said it can happen from many things. For Zoe it has not happened again that our eye vet has seen . Do you have a written report from the eye vet?

There is a urine test that can be done to check for phenon. tumor. I have to go find the source, I just read it and for some reason I thought Marianne mentioned it to you awhile back. I did read those tumors seem to take up more space in the adrenal gland perhaps making it more mass like.

As for an adrenal tumor being malignant or not, keep in mind that often the surgeon is not 100% sure if it has spread until they get into the surgery. They thought Zoe's vulva surgery would be a piece of cake until they got into it and then could actually see the mass was deeper than they thought. My point is there are no guarantees there.

At least it is the left side not the right side.

Did you reread the list of questions Leslie posted from Trish? You need to.

I cant tell you what to do. You know your dog. I will tell you that if you do decide on surgery you must be prepared for not only the surgery but the post op as well. It is okay to say, I cant do it. There are no judgments here.

I have to tell you, Zoe's ultra sound in April was not good. It is possible she has a mass in her right adrenal gland, a mass on her spleen and her liver. They cannot tell me if they are tumors, why I dont know. I have not mentioned Zoe's adrenal glands and possible tumor until now, here on your thread.

Dear Patti, hugs and love and shoulders to lean on, I cant tell you what to do. Follow your heart. Whatever you do, you do out of total love and devotion and Tipper knows that.

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti,
I can only repeat what the others have said and that is that no one knows Tipper better than you. How much she can go through, etc.
I think that there are many unknowns. It is unknown if it is functional or not, it is unknown how long she will live with no surgery and it is unknown if she would survive the surgery and post op.
I don't think there are Any answers to those questions that are definite, so you have to make the decision of what to do or not do, based on what you already know of Tipper.
Whatever you decide, we are here for you, every step of the way.
Super big hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[scoora]

Patti,
Sorry I have no advise or any help for you but sending lots of prayers and hugs for you and Tipper.

[frijole]

Patti, If I recall it was Trish who mentioned the testing for pheo. I would spend time reading her thread as well as Kaibo's. Kaibo was thought to have cushings at first and then it turns out it was diabetes and a pheo - so you can go to the later pages of the thread to where the pheo and operation are discussed. Kim

[Renee & the Furkids]

Patti... I've read through some of the posts on here, I am so sorry and so sad for what you are going through. I really have no advice, as I am very new to all this Cushings stuff, my dog Bentley was recently diagnosed with Cushings (due to the calcinosis cutis, and he has all the other symptoms, the pot belly and breathing issues are scaring me so badly). I just wanted to say I hope things get better for you and your sweet Tipper. I too lost all of my family, and only have my beloved pets left and they are my life, I know how it is.

Renee

[Squirt's Mom]

I wouldn't dismiss the surgery until I talked with the surgeon who would do the operation. Your GP vet nor the IMS are the experts in this arena - the surgeon is and the surgeon can give you the best information to use in making this decision. Where the GP or IMS may see high risk, the surgeon may say it's nothing compared to what he usually deals with and he would certainly do the surgery if it were his dog. I'm saying, don't rely on anyone but the surgeon in making this decision because he is the only one who can really tell you. The surgeon may be more qualified to tell what kind of tumor this is apt to be.

In some reading yesterday on imaging used in PDH, I found nothing that mentioned finding a micro - they all referred to seeing a macro. Now whether that is because no scan was done prior to the tumor starting to grow or whether a micro simply cannot be seen on an MRI, I haven't determined. As previously stated, it IS possible for a pup to have both PHD and ADH - even PDH with "duel" ADH (tumors on both adrenal glands) BUT these are very rare cases. Maybe someone here knows if a micro can be seen with MRI imaging? I would think a cat scan would be more apt to pick something that small up. :confused:

If you have definitely taken the surgery off the table, then forget about it and focus on medical intervention. I don't want you to say today that surgery is out then on down the road be beating yourself up when she starts to have more problems from the tumor as it grows for not pursuing it more closely now. There will come a time when it truly is much too late to contemplate surgery. ;)

If you decide to take the meds route, I think I would work with the IMS from now on if they will take Tipper on a regular basis. This has gotten too complicated for a GP vet.

So, that's what I would do - talk in depth with the surgeon who would perform the surgery before taking that off the table. If he says it is too risky for Tipper, then that is no longer an option and you have no other choices but to treat with drugs. Please do check out the questions I posted - they are excellent and can help guide your decision.

I know whatever you decide, that decision will be made out of the deep love you have for Tipper and your desire to do the best you can for her. Honey, that is ALL any of us can do - the best we can with what we have to work with. When that decision is made, put it to bed (as a boss of mine would say about projects in the works) and enjoy every minute you can with that sweet girl. This very minute is all any of us have - we are not promised the next breath, much less another year or three. So it is imperative that we take time to cherish every good thing that comes our way, even if that is simply a night when our baby sleeps well. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
I feel some how defeated by all this, but never mistake it for weakness as from a toddler I have learned tenacity, will over take adversity. I have always been like that and will probably never change. It has more than likely gotten me thru the many tragedies I have faced in life. I will never quit because Tipper means too much to me. I said I would continue to my last breath and I meant it. I am still going to see the surgeon, and get her opinion on all of this. I am not completely ruling it out until I talk to her.. If it is not a good option, I am going to look into the tests that can help determine a pheo. If I can find some and it does point to this, I am going to talk to the IMS about maybe a low dose of blood pressure meds at nite to make sure that if this pheo becomes active that I can attempt to keep he bp down at nite at least. I just had her blood pressure checked this morning and it was 135. So if the bleeding in the retinas is caused by high bp it has to be happening at night. Addy I do have a report from the eye Dr. It says the calcium deposits have stayed the same, with a few retinal hemorrhages. Tear levels were 20 for the right and 19 for the left. Says new finding of retinal hemorrhages, could be due to hypertension, clotting disorder, metabolic disease,cushings, hypothyroidism, cancer, age related vessel fragility. I remember she had 1 day a few weeks ago with a bp of 190 and that could have done it too. I am going to track down these tests for the pheo and get on them. Also I am making an appt. at the hospital with the IMS to do a follow up Ultra Sound to see if the tumor is growing. Tipper will have to have an ACTH again in a month because of the dosage change. I gave her the 10 mg yesterday morning and then before she could get hungry I gave her the other 10 mg of Vetoryl at 6:00 pm. They said I could give the second dose early to prevent the hunger. So we are back with it this morning. It is too humid for Tipper to walk with all she has going on so I will paly with her inside, it is safer today. I am wondering if all the movement at nite that Tipper does could be coming from this tumor, even though I have heard others mention their dogs doing it, I am suspicious of it now. Her side will ripple, her legs and tail twitch usually after laying down and falling asleep it starts. I have never seen her do this before this illness so it is not the type of sleep mode like rem that she is in, or I would have seen it years ago. I am praying constantly for help and direction, and for God to have mercy on my baby. In the mean time I am going to check out some testing and ask the surgeon about it. I am going to use the questions that Leslie posted from Trish when I go, so she better be ready to spend at least an hour with me. If she starts to rush me that will set off alarm bells in my head. Any help on this from any one will be appreciated. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

In some reading yesterday on imaging used in PDH, I found nothing that mentioned finding a micro - they all referred to seeing a macro. Now whether that is because no scan was done prior to the tumor starting to grow or whether a micro simply cannot be seen on an MRI, I haven't determined. As previously stated, it IS possible for a pup to have both PHD and ADH - even PDH with "duel" ADH (tumors on both adrenal glands) BUT these are very rare cases. Maybe someone here knows if a micro can be seen with MRI imaging? I would think a cat scan would be more apt to pick something that small up. :confused:


Hi Patti, I surely understand why these are such difficult decisions for you. If only we had that crystal ball...:o

As you continue to gather information, though, here's a quote that seems to imply that pituitary microtumors may indeed be present but too small to show up on imaging. The quote is taken from a 2007 article, so it is not the most recent. But it still may remain accurate. At that time, the author (Dr. Ellen Behrend) was throwing out the possibility that all dogs diagnosed with PDH might benefit from imaging of the head in order to determine tumor status from the outset. Due to the expense (and maybe also for other reasons) that idea has not gained much traction. But per this quote, it appears that tiny pituitary tumors are often not visible.


Based on this information, recognizing that the number of dogs studied is small, the recommendations are: All dogs with PDH should have a CT or MRI at the time of diagnosis. If no mass is visible, medical treatment should be implemented and no follow-up is needed. If a mass 3-7 mm in greatest vertical height is seen, medical therapy should be implemented with a repeat scan in 12-18 months. If a mass > 8 mm in greatest vertical height is seen, radiation therapy should be done and medical therapy used only if clinical HAC fails to resolve within 3-6 months of finishing radiation. These recommendations are based on clinical experience and theoretical considerations53 and no studies have been performed to date to assess their validity.

For what it's worth, I've gotten the impression that an MRI is actually the more precise imaging tool for pituitary tumors. When we suspected that our own Cushpup had an enlarging tumor, our specialist told us he could perform a CT at is office which could reveal the tumor, but that if we were considering radiation therapy, the vet school we were considering would likely want to perform an MRI of their own in advance of actual treatment. So even though he didn't explicitly state that an MRI is more precise, that's the impression I was left with.

Also, hopefully Kim will stop back by to talk about the urine testing for pheos because I think it was her (or perhaps Trish) who mentioned it in the past.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne:
Thank you for your help. I am going to talk this over with the IMS, and see what we can come up with. My head is spinning, but I will never quit helping my girl. All the phone calls, research, posting and emailing Dr.'s is taking a lot of my time, so I have let other things go onto the back burner. Tipper is the single most important thing in my life, I must keep trying to get some resolution to this. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Addy I do have a report from the eye Dr. It says the calcium deposits have stayed the same, with a few retinal hemorrhages. Tear levels were 20 for the right and 19 for the left. Says new finding of retinal hemorrhages, could be due to hypertension, clotting disorder, metabolic disease,cushings, hypothyroidism, cancer, age related vessel fragility

Tear production is good then and the hemorrhages may resolve on their own, Zoe's did. Our eye vet was not overly concerned about Zoe's, he said he often sees them in older dogs. He has shown more concern about her other many eye issues which surprised me as we use Fluribiprofen which can cause bleeding in the eye. Tipper's calcium deposits will most likely not get better but the good news is they are not getting worse.

The written report is not bad but of course I have been to hell and back with Zoe's eyes so maybe that is why I think that.:o:o

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Such an overwhelming amount of things to think about. Your head may be spinning-whose wouldn't?- but you are amazing in your capacity to plow forward and gather as much info as you can and you're doing a great job! Your tenacity is like Tippers!
How is Tipper doing today? That new blood pressure number is really good, isn't it?
Does the morning 10mg dose seem to keep her symptom free most of the day? Is her night time breathing still better? I hope she's doing well today!! Jack Russells are tough little cookies...sounds like Tipper is living up to her breed! ;)

Barbara

[doxiesrock912]

Patti,

Daisy and I continue to pray for you and Tipper.

[Budsters Mom]

Patti,
According to the veterinary neurosurgeon from the specialty hospital that was overseeing Buddy's treatment, MRI is the best imaging available in hopes to view a micro-tumor on the pituitary gland. A CT scan may or may not show the tumor. The visibility of an MRI is much clearer and more precise. It can show most tumors and measure their sizes, and location on the pituitary gland, among other things. When a macro is a possibility, an MRI is the first thing that's done following consultation. Xxxx

[scoora]

Patti, Thinking of you and Tipper.
Big Hugs!

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thank you all for thinking of my girl. She needs all the prayers she can get. Kathy I am going to talk over the MRI with my IMS and see how we could do this cheaper. She has given me breaks so far on almost everything, as she know I am having a hard time with the money. Barbara Tipper is the toughest dog I have ever had. She could be on the floor really sick and feeling really bad, but she would get right up and defend you with her life. She went after a Great Dane one day when we went to a friends house their dane ran up to the car and stuck his head in the window. Big mistake on his part, Tipper lunged at the window biting the dane in the face. He backed up and just looked bewildered like did that little dog just bite me, maybe it was a big flea? Many days when her back legs are bothering her and someone comes to the door, she is up and at it again no matter how bad she feels. The things she has had to endure because of this disease, many dogs would not have taken as well. The 10 mg in the morning is ok for right now. I can see at times a small amount of panting going on. I have to give her the 10mg at nite early or she will start getting really hungry and keep wanting more food. I give it to her before her last mini meal of the nite. Because of all that was going on this week, I let her have a little xtra, and it showed on the scale, so that has to stop. So giving her the nite dose early is helping to stabilize her on just a total of 20mg. I am hoping it continues to work, even though the other dosage was so much cheaper. Last nite she made a lot of noise while sleeping, some loud breathing noises. It is making me nervous now all the muscle contractions etc. since learning it can be a symptom of pheos. It is never far from my mind. I got an appointment for Tipper's next ultra sound to see if the tumor has increased on October 15th at 8:30 am. That was she doesn't have to starve till the afternoon. It will be all over with in the morning and I will just feed her on the way home as I did before. It seems that the humidity is going to bad again today so I will have to think of something for us to do inside. Last night Tipper was laying on the kitchen floor watching me as I baked 2 apple pies. Don't know who is going to eat them, but it was something to do. I can freeze them. Hope everyone has a good holiday with their babies. Blessings
Patti

[BostonLover]

Hang in there Patti. We are all here for you, and sending positive vibes and blessings your way. <3 Stay strong for sweet Tipper. Remember, I'm in Pittsburgh, so if you need anything, let me know.:)

[goldengirl88]

Crystal:
Thank you for you kind words of encouragement. This has been one of the hardest times of my life. I get up every day and keep going as I love my Tipper and cannot think of not having her with me. How is your baby doing? What area of Pgh. do you live in? Boy I hope the regular season games for the Steelers are nothing like the preseason ones! Something needs to get fixed real fast. Do you have a Dr. at PVSEC?
Blessings
Patti

[NoonelovesmelikeNorman]

Hi Patti, Just wanted to know that Tipper, you and the medical team are in my thoughts and prayers. Tipper sounds so much like Norman in his protective, loving ways. Praying all goes well with the Vet and arrangements can be made so Tipper can regain better health. Sending healing vibes your way. (((hugs)))

Love and Hugs to you and Tipper,

Sharon, Norman and Millie

[spdd]

Hi Patti... just thinking about you and all you are still going through. Wouldn't it be nice if both of us could catch a break at the same time.
Hope you and Tipper are doing well today... also hope you can work something out with the MRI, if anybody can do it you can.

[BostonLover]

Crystal:
Thank you for you kind words of encouragement. This has been one of the hardest times of my life. I get up every day and keep going as I love my Tipper and cannot think of not having her with me. How is your baby doing? What area of Pgh. do you live in? Boy I hope the regular season games for the Steelers are nothing like the preseason ones! Something needs to get fixed real fast. Do you have a Dr. at PVSEC?
Blessings
Patti

I know how you feel. It's horrible to know your baby is sick. My other Boston Tyson had a brain tumor, and he passed away on Christmas Eve, and I thought I would never go on. But 8 months later, I still cry a lot and miss him but I'm doing better. Focusing all my attention on my sweet AnnaBelle. She is doing much better on the Lysodren. We live in Moon, and yes, we see Dr. Peterson at PVSEC. They all know us by first names, as we've been going there for almost 2 years (IMS for AnnaBelle, and Neurologist for Tyson's brain tumor).

Yes, the Steelers need to step it up, or it's going to be a ROUGH season for sure.:)

[kaibosmom]

Hi Patti. I've been reading a bit but can't catch up completely right now. I did see a comment about Kaibo and that maybe you should read his thread. One error in the comment though was that he had a pheochromocytoma. He didn't. We did a test to help determine if it was a pheochromocytoma- a urine catecholamine test. Kaibo had a right adrenal tumour that was removed July 25. Kaibo is only 6 years old. The tumour was a functioning adrenal tumour that caused the Cushing's symptoms. The only way they knew for sure was to remove it and have the pathologist test it. Good luck with Tppper. Take time to relax and breathe. You will know what to do.
Nikki and Kaibo.

[goldengirl88]

Nikki:
I heard of that test and was going to ask if they could do one on Tipper. There is quite and age difference between Tipper and Kaibo, and Tipper has a lot more issues now, I am not feeling too good about a surgery at present because of those factors. If this was just a non functional tumor and it didn't get any larger that would probably be out best scenario to leave it alone. Hope Kaibo continues to do well. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Crystal, Sharon, and Judi:
Thank you for keeping my Tipper in your thoughts. She is resting quietly now, I just had her on the porch, but the heat and humidity is too much for her and I so we came in. She sleeps a lot more lately, I think out of boredom. I will be so glad to see fall so she can be outdoors more. In a way I am afraid to see it though, as the clock is still ticking and I still haven't figured out how to stop it. In a way it is good I do not have to go to work and can spend all my time with her. Paying her vet bills is not too easy on a fixed income though. Judy that Dr. is really keeping us all in suspense, I hope for your sake they hurry and call do you can get your Trilostane before the holiday weekend. Do you celebrate that in Canada? Blessings to you all
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Mel:
If you are busy I understand completely. I am sure you are keeping up with the threads. Please tell Tia to watch over Tipper. I miss you and hope you are doing well. I bet your weather is really hot and humid?? Hugs and Kisses to you and Boyce from Tipper the Ripper. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

Sorry it's too hot and humid there for Tipper to get some good outside time. I was lucky this morning...was only 70 degrees when we left for a walk..we had humidity but it was cloudy and breezy so I was able to take Trixie to Central Park to be off the leash. It actually felt cool though a bit damp. I know Trixie is always better with 60-90 minutes of morning exercise, but if it's hot forget it.
I'm waiting for my husband to get home and we'll both take her for a walk- but now the sun is out and that's got everything steamed up outside, so it will be a short walk this evening.
I'm with you Patti...can't wait for those nice cool Fall days. What a difference that will make. The dogs love the cool temps especially ours who have trouble regulating their body temp.
Hoping you and Tipper (and the rest) have a good weekend.

Barbara

[spdd]

Hi Patti. Yes it is a long weekend in Canada. We call it labour day, and the last long weekend before the kids go back to school.

I have no definitive answers from the IMS visit, so we will just continue with no meds other then Tramadol. I wanted to go on holidays for the first time in many, many years, but can't now as I can't get Keesh controlled.

I'm glad to hear that Tipper had a relatively good day yesterday. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. Seems I've been doing a lot of praying lately, specifically for our pups.

Enjoy the weekend, hopefully you can relax a little.

[LabDad]

I had to think a bit. We live just 30 minutes from Canada and I either forgot or didn't know Canada celebrated Labor Day the same day we did. Memorial Day and Canada's holiday in May are a week or so apart, but I hadn't thought that. Now that means the campers from Canada should be in full-force in the large shopping center parking lots. I didn't see any yesterday, but I did the week or so before. Certainly beats the rates they charge to camp with in parks these days, almost the price of a cheaper motel room!

So Happy Labour Day weekend in Canada and Happy Labor Day in the States! (Notice my slang too!) LOL

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper is in for the day again due to the humidity. It is the worst it has been today. She did walk one time. I am having a slight problem with her 10mg nite dosing. I have to give it to her around 5pm or she starts getting really hungry. She does not eat her last mini meal until after 6pm. The last 3 nites she has been waking in the early morning hours with gastro symptoms, and loud gut noises. I get up take her out, where she tries to consume the whole lawn, then feed her . It goes away about 20 minutes after she eats. I give her last dose of Vetoryl with some chicken. All she gets for her last meal is some dog food nuggets. I don't think there is enough fat, and giving the Vetoryl a little sooner than the food is not working out as far as the tummy aches, but it does control the hunger. I cannot give her cheese, she does not like it, and I am really afraid to give her anything too fatty as she has not had anything like that in a year. I am so afraid of pancreatitis, and she has had enough stuff going on. I may have to suffer and give her the Vetoryl with her last meal and add some chicken. From all the storms we have had she gets up in the middle of the nite and goes in my closet and sleeps a few hours then gets back in bed in the early morning. The closet has become a comfort zone for her. The hospital called last nite and said for her ultra sound in October she does not have to be fasted. Thank you God. Also my urologist's office called yesterday to inform me that my x ray showed I still have the stone, and he wants me to come in to talk about removal. I told them my dog is not well and I am not leaving her, so it will have to stay there until whenever, and I will call them when I can come in. I simply will not even consider doing this now as I am too nervous about Tipper. I knew it did not come out, just my luck. It is just too much for me to do something like that right now, although I know it has to come out. I need to get settled with some definite answers on Tipper first. That will come secondary to her. I am going to take a sample of Tipper's urine to my vet when I go on Wednesday for blood pressure and ask him to test it for Catecholamines. I have to take my rescue Lucky in for shots, and Tipper hates him so this should be fun. Then all the babies are up to date on everything except Tipper, she no longer gets vaccinations. I haven't mentioned this, but I think the Adequan shots helped Tipper with the trachea problems. I see a definite improvement. Hope you all have a blessed weekend.
Patti

[Trixie]

Hi Patti,
Can you give Tipper a few low fat treats before she goes to sleep for the night? I give Trixie her 14mg at 10pm with some food..a bit of dog food and some treats. Then she gets a Pepcid a/c and Denamarin when we go into bed...around midnight (we're night owls).
How about just a small snack right before turning out the lights so her tummy is not empty when she is sleeping. Do you give her Pepcid a/c? It has been so helpful for Trixie...never hear all the gurgling anymore since we take a half a tab nightly. We also had very loud gastro gurgling at the start of all this, but I hardly ever hear this anymore. Pepcid a/c may not be the same for all dogs but it's been successful for Trixie. The one night she didn't have it last week as I was at my mother's is the morning she woke up with the bad poops.
Humid and overcast here too...not good dog walking weather. :( Trixie had a walk but not as long as usual.
I hope Tipper is doing okay and that you don't have any big thunder storms!!

Barbara

[goldengirl88]

Barbara:
I decided to not give Tipper the 2nd dose until she eats her last mini meal, as much as it kills me to see her hungry I would rather she not suffer the gastro upset. So we shall wait tonight and see if this helps. We just had a down pour, but no thunder. Tipper ran to the closet, but is out now that things have quieted. Glad you are getting Trixie's blood pressure checked. A very wise and prominent animal dermatologist told me when Tipper was first diagnosed that it is the single most important factor to do when they have this disease. I take Tipper 25 miles every Wednesday to get hers checked. I have never missed a blood pressure, and keep a flow chart of all the readings and her weights. I can see in a glance that she has only had 2 high in a year and comparing them to what the IMS told me they weren't high really- they were 170 and the highest was 190. She said she worries if 200 or over . Tipper usually falls between 120 and 140. So where this stuff came from in the eyes remains to be seen. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Patti,
The shots helping her trachea problem is good news! :) There is always something to be truly thankful for.:cool:

I am glad that your a keeping your consult appointment with the surgeon. You need that information to make informed decisions on the best care possible. It doesn't at all mean that surgery will happen. It is all about options, so you can decide on what's best for Tipper.

I'm not worried about Tipper. She is in the best hands possible. I am more concerned about you. It's hard to stay strong when so much is happening. Your babies need you to take care of your needs first, so you'll be strong for them. Many hugs xxxxxx

[Simba's Mom]

Hey Patti, worried about you and Tipper too, but you need to take care of yourself hon, so glad that her breathing is better also when Sims tummy was upset and noisy I gave him eggs or egg whites or plain yogurt, always seemed to help, hugs and prayers

[spdd]

You certainly have your hands full, but I'm glad to hear Tipper's trachea problems are better.

Wish I could wave a magic wand and make everything better for you, including your health.

You are taking the best care of your pets that anyone could ever possibly expect, and it will all work out, I have no doubt.

Hope the rest of your weekend is good, thinking about you.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well last nite it looked like we were in for a heck of a storm. So anticipating it I gave Tipper some Benadryl. We never got the storm and I was so sorry I gave her that. That's the thing about these meds, you can really mess up sometimes thinking a storm is coming and if you don't give it ahead of time, it won't be possible once it starts. Tipper was restless last nite. Something inside her makes her uncomfortable I know it, and wish I could find out what it is. I waited last nite to give her the Vetoryl until her last mini meal. She was hungry, so I left the room where she was for about 10 minutes-peaking in on her. That way I don't get so upset seeing her hungry. It all worked out and she did not have a tummy ache this morning. She even slept in, we both needed that. Nothing will ever replace the feeling of her soft fur on my face kissing me to wake me up. I need her to live, I really need her, she is my rock. She is so smart, I wonder if she realizes that I am awake before she does this??? She is probably playing the game with me. It is very hot and extremely muggy today, we are supposed to get storms, I bet they will be bad with this humidity and heat going on. I better get the Benadryl ready and watch the sky. She has already walked once. I got a wash cloth with cool water and wiped her down, then put her ice pack harness on and walked her really slow watching her breathing the whole time. It is a small wonder I don't run into something as I never look up because of always watching her for signs of distress. I am not pushing the exercise so much, unless she wants to. I read exercise can be dangerous with pheo's and because we don't know if she has one, I am being cautious. Hope everyone is having a good long holiday with their babies. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi Patti, thinking of you and Tipper.

I know it is hard with the storms to know what to do or not do, will it show up or will it not. You can only really guess, based upon what you know. It won't hurt her if she is given it at least, so that is good.
hang in there Patti, you're doing really excellent.
hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Boy I feel like a real loser today. Last nite I gave Tipper the Benadryl and she went to sleep and no storm came. Today I waited and all of a sudden the thunder started and off to the closet she went and the storm raged. I have to get my act together with this stuff. If it stops and she comes out I am giving it to her. Never a dull moment here! I guess quite a few are getting their holiday rained out. Lucky and I just had a small piece of apple pie. Lucky has a sweet tooth, and loves a tiny piece of something sweet, his favorite is donuts. I never knew cats liked sweet things until one day when I still lived in my beloved Pittsburgh, I baked a cake for my Dad's birthday. I sat it outside on the porch to cool and got dressed to go and get ready to frost the cake. When I went to get it my neighbors cat Clyde was sitting in it eating it like he had never eaten before. I had to run and go buy one. The next day I called my neighbor and asked her if Clyde was feeling ill?? She said "no why?" I told her he ate my Dad's birthday cake. She laughed her self silly. From then on when we would see each other outside she would say" hey Patti what are you making tonight, as Clyde wants to know!" I never give Lucky but a tiny piece of anything, I don't need him all sugared up he is crazy enough on his own. He is my rescue cat and when I first got him, when we went to bed at nite he would jump up and pull pictures down off my walls and scare the crap out of everyone, but Tipper. For some reason he did not like things on the wall and would try to pull them down. He has learned I do not think it is funny to remove all my Steeler memorabilia from the family room. That is strictly off limits. I use quite a bit of museum wax in my home these days. I had enough of vases tipped over and candle holders knocked off the mantel at nite, so I use this and it is Earthquake Strength so we have no more problems with broken items. Ok back to the closet to check Tipper again. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

:p:pROFLMAO!!:p:p The image of Lucky attacking the walls is hilarious! I'm sure the reality sucks but the image is funny as all get out! :D:p:D

We had a cat named Maxwell who could not tolerate closed doors of any kind except for some reason the doors to outside. All others had to be open and that included cabinet doors, refrigerator doors, display case doors - it if it had a handle it had to be open in his mind. He would sit and scream at us until we opened the door and he could check it out. If at all possible and we wanted peace for a minute, we left them open for Max. Over time, he learned to open many of those doors himself, including our bathroom door. When visitors would go to the bathroom, in very short order we would hear them making occupied-don't-come-in noises and we'd just holler, "It's OK! It's just the cat!" :D

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Leslie that is so funny, my cat Chance who is an angel and never does anything bad gets a bug every couple years and opens and slams all the kitchen cupboard doors. The first nite I heard this I though someone was in the house. Then the next time it happened I could find nothing going on and went back to bed. In the morning I could not find Chance. I looked everywhere, and when he cried out I located him under the kitchen sink. My cabinet doors are kind of heavy and I guess he couldn't push his way out. No at least I know what is going on when I hear it. It is funny cause Lucky sits there in amazement and watches Chance do it. I think he wonders why he did not come up with that idea.
I am so glad yesterday is over. When Tipper finally came out of the closet I gave her the Benadryl. It did not work. She just was shaking like crazy. It thundered for so long, I put the fan in the closet for her and turned up the T.V.. Nothing seems to work. I hope there is no more damage to her eyes. She got all calmed down and came to lay down with me, and someone set off an M80.Now normally she has no fear of fireworks, but she got up and bolted to the closet, I could have screamed. So we are in for some rain today. That is ok as long as it does not involve thunder. I have been putting some seasonal items I have outside away, as I do not know what is going to go on with my Tipper, and I don't want tot have to contend with the outside stuff if she has things going on. I put away a few things every day, so I will be done when the weather sets in. I will be so glad for cool weather!! It is very foggy here this morning, and a lot cooler and not as humid. I am having a hard time sleeping wondering what I will learn at the meeting with the surgeon. It is making me nervous. I hate anticipating bad news, and the waiting. I am also dreading putting her in the car for the long trip as it is hard on her even though I make her a bed out of pillows so she can lay flat and be comfortable. At least there is no fasting involved. It is just the idea of the stress on her. She can't do much more of this, and I don't blame her one bit. I am still praying to God for a miracle for her. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Patti,
Never a dull moment with that zoo of yours. :o

I hate that poor Tipper becomes so anxious that she cowers in the closet. At least she has somewhere to run to where she feel safe.

Remember, one day at a time Patti. You can do it!;) xxxxx

[LabDad]

Patti,

You know our Lulu in the last couple years of her life, added storms to her list of sounds she was scared of. They didn't bother her as a younger lab. We discovered though at times that we could put her in the truck with the back open and she was content. Don't know if that helps, and certainly we didn't do this during the most violent part of a storm, but it just helped at times.

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Thank God that it is cooler out today and no storms until the end of the week. Tipper had an uneventful nite which was so good for once. She has already walked and is on the floor by me resting. Tomorrow she goes for blood pressure. Since things are calm at the moment I am planning on a soak in the tub and a pedicure. I don't get too much time to myself so this will be great. I am anxiously awaiting Friday I am a bundle of nerves. Thanks for the suggestion about the storms. It is funny when I put Tipper in the car when it is storming she just lays down and for lack of a better description accepts what is going on. There is no shaking and very little panting.Maybe I should ride her around when it storms??? Blessings
Patti

[spdd]

Glad to hear Tipper had a great night. Even better to hear you are going to spoil yourself a little today.

Hoping the rest of the day for you is just as good.

[Trixie]

HI Patti,
So glad Tipper had a calm and peaceful night!! The stormy day she had yesterday sounded awful....poor Tipper and poor you. I'm sure when she's shaking and upset you are the same...that's what happens with me too.
But today is a new day and things sound good including the weather. We are still humid today but it's supposed to be drying out right now. I'll take Trixie in awhile for an afternoon walk. If it's less humid maybe we'll make it a longer one...we'll see. Right now Trixie is napping and breathing nice and slow! Must be a good day all around!! Hoping Tipper has another calm night!!
Barbara

P.S. I love the cat ate the cake story...how funny!!

[molly muffin]

Wow a peaceful night for all and you get a bath and pedicure time! Sounds heavenly!

Enjoy!
hugs,
sharlene and molly muffin

[spdd]

How was the rest of the day and last night?

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Well yesterday and last nite was pretty good. I did my pedicure, and got a soak in the tub. It's so funny this is a deep tub and when you lay back you can hardly be seen. A few years ago when Tipper was not sick I was soaking in the tub and I heard Tipper run from my bedroom. Before I could even say what is wrong, she jumped in the tub on top of me. She is so smart, she could not see me and thought I drowned, she was coming to save me. So now that she is not well I am careful where she is when I go in the tub. I don't want her getting hurt thinking she has to save me. I cannot believe I forgot Tipper's second dose of Vetoryl last nite. No wonder she was roaming about. I never do that. I have just grown so accustomed to the once a day . I was in a panic this morning when it dawned on me. I just made a fool proof method so I do not forget ever again, and I am going to implement it now. We are off to the vets with Lucky and Tipper today. I should have an apartment above his office. Think of all the gas I would save. Blessings
Patti

[Trixie]

So glad to hear that Tipper had another good night Patti! It's also nice that you had a home spa evening for yourself. Hoping your vet visit goes well today...will be ready to hear your report later on.
I'm sure you're loving this beautiful cool weather day...I know we are. Long walk for Trixie and hardly any panting!! ;)

Barbara

[molly muffin]

Glad you got your spa time Patti. We all need that sometimes. :) Tipper is a smart one heading in to rescue you from the tub.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I am so happy that you took some very needed time for yourself! Keep it up Patti! I worry about you. Xxxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a decent nite, but I have noticed on the 20 mg dosage I am hearing a lot more noises out of her than when she was on the 30mg. Have to figure that one out. Her blood pressure was not high yesterday, but higher than usual at 150. It was a real blast in the car with Lucky and Tipper. Every time Lucky let out a loud meow, Tipper tried to climb in the back seat to get at him. This is the cat she does not like. Everything went well at the vet's. Of course he came 25 minutes late again, but it was his birthday so I kept my remarks to myself. Yesterday was throw up day here. Lucky quickly ate some chicken when he got home, and just as quickly threw it up. He was upset from at the vets, he never throws up. I no sooner got that cleaned up than Toby threw up in his crate. Well I got that all the bedding washed up and cleaned him up and brushed his teeth, and Chance threw up a hair ball. Tipper is the only one who did not throw up, and I am glad of that. I do not want to see vomit for a few months!! Thank God for hardwood floors, although usually when the cat gets sick he gravitates to my best rug in the house and wants to throw up on the white part of it. My kitchen is 30 feet long and you would think he could do it there, but oh no he runs to that rug. I have now covered that rug with blankets and it looks terrible, but I take them off when anyone comes. It is much easier to wash the blankets out, than have him permanently stain that good rug. Cats have such strong stomach acids it ruins everything. I am not seeing the surgeon tomorrow as my vet said he does not want me to have to pay to get answers, so he will get a surgeon who does this to talk to me for free. I am really not thinking of doing this operation anyway because of Tipper's many other issues and age, so I think this is just as well. She will however be going to get another scan in 2 months to see if the tumor is growing. I cannot ask any more of Tipper than she has already done. She has had enough. I will have to rely on my faith in God to keep her safe, and the knowledge I have acquired to manage her treatment. She will have to have continual ultra sounds, as if the tumor grows and invades anything that would cause her to have life threatening problems I would put her down before it happened. I don't want her last bit of time on earth to be bad. I would rather she go before anything happens to distress her. I am only thinking of her in these decisions, and I am leaving myself out of them. It would kill me, but I would do it for her. My vet said she could live for years on treatment, we just don't know for sure. I cannot let a surgeon carve her up and put her thru that agony after all she has been thru so far. I love her more than anything, and cannot do that to her. It is in God's hands now. I will fight for her and never give up though. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

This is where I am with Squirt, too. She's had enough and deserves as much peace and comfort as I can provide for the remainder of her days. I know those days are numbered so I do the best I can each and every day to make it one that brings us both joy and binds us that much tighter. Gratitude for her presence is something I express every day to her and to the Powers that guide my life. You have always done your best for Tipper; you are doing no less now.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang