Im Eazyrider.and my girl Tudi

[eazyrider]

Hi everyone and I see that Im not alone in my struggle with my dog Tudi having cushings.all tho I didnt get a diagnosis from my vet im sure she has this desiese.i researched it thoroughly on the internet and found tudi displays almost every symptom of cushings..Tudi is a 12 year old yorkie (female) and my best friend..I would like some suggestions on some homeapathic medicines i can get for her...ive read several websites on different medicines but i figure theres no better place then this forum to get advice..can you please help us..thank you..
eazyrider

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[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eazy and welcome to you and Tudi! :)

The first thing you need to understand is that Cushing's is one of, if not THE, most difficult canine disease to diagnose even for vets using all the testing available. So it is extremely risky to self-diagnose your baby and start her on any treatment, homeopathic or otherwise. ;)

Second, I want to be sure you understand the term "homeopathic". This is part of the Holistic approach to medicine in which like is treated with like. In other words, if you have a fever you take something that causes a fever to force the body to fight harder. It is based on the philosophy of "like cures like" or "the law of similars". Homeopathic treatments are only one of the methods Holistic vets have at their disposal. For our cush pups, the pharmaceutical approach is the most typical as the results are without doubt. There are those who claim to have success using Holistic methods but we never saw any testing that supported those claims. Herbs, supplements, diet can all certainly help our babies live the best possible life and can help with some of the signs.

But we are no where near ready to start talking about treating anything as we don't know what is going on with your sweet Tudi. ;)

Has she had any testing at the vets? If not, that is the first step. She will need a full blood work up to start with. Can you tell us what you are seeing in Tudi that makes you think there is a problem of some sort? Any changes in her looks or behavior? The more you can tell us about Tudi, the better we can help and we just LOVE details! :D;)

At this point, all I can say is please do not purchase anything from the web to give to Tudi, don't start her on anything that claims to treat Cushing's or anything else. I can just about promise you that whatever you see concerning cures for Cushing's is bunk - just a con to take your money. Especially things like Cushex and Supraglan.

So, please tell us more about Tudi and we will do our best to help you both! I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning much more very soon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me too.

I agree with Leslie, it is very difficult to diagnose and there are several conditions that mimic these symptoms - diabetes, thyroid and liver problems for example.

Take a few minutes to read through these links - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180 - very invaluable in understanding what testing needs to be done and really what is Cushing's and the different types.

Let us know more about the symptoms and is Tudi on any other medication?

Terry

[eazyrider]

ive recently discovered that niacin isn't good to be giving a dog with cushings deciese..i read a medical journal that says the niacin enhances the production of glucocorticoid.. i purchased a glucosomine product that had niacin in it..i immediately stopped giving my dog this product..now that i think about it her cushing symptoms started about 6 months after giving her this product..im going to stop giving her this and see what happens..i pray the cushings goes away..ill settle for just an improvement..all i can say is read the labels of the supplements you give your dog..im not blaming anyone but please READ THE LABELS..thank you for listening eazyrider

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your latest post concerning niacin with Tudi's original thread. We like to keep all info about each pup in one thread that way it is easier to look back through the history if needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eazy,

Could you share the link where you read this? I have been looking online and in my books and do not find anything that says niacin (vitamin B3) is bad for cush pups and certainly not that it causes the same signs as Cushing's. So if you would share your info, I would love to see it! There are new things coming out every day and we like to keep on top of them. ;)

How is Tudi doing? Any changes in her behavior or appearance? Did you ever have any tests run? If so, what and what were the results? Has she seen a vet since you last posted in August? What did they tell you?

Let us hear from you on how she is!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[eazyrider]

im giving my 13 year old yorkie supraglan..its working for her..my question is can i give her glucosimine with it..please someone let me know your thoughts...eazyrider thanks

[frijole]

Hello! As Leslie mentioned earlier, we have found that there is no homeopathic treatment that works for treating cushings. Trust me, we would all use it if it did work. Here is what a vet wrote about supraglan.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/empty-promises-not-medicine/

I have no idea if glucosamine would work with suprglan.

Please read the article from the vet and note where he talks about how serious of a disease cushings is. It concerns me that you are treating without any testing and a firm diagnosis.

Please tell us more about your dog's symptoms. As Terri indicated, other diseases such as hypothyroidism and diabetes have the same symptoms so you have to do testing to diagnose.

Thanks! Kim

[mytil]

Hi again,

Glad you posted again. In an earlier post, you mentioned a problem with glucosomine you were giving and you thought is was causing the Cushing's so you stopped- I am not sure if this was a specific brand of glucosomine or not, but I have not read where this is the case.

I do agree with Kim and Leslie, what you are giving (supraglan) is only covering up the symptoms so it gives one the impression it is "curing" the Cushing's, but it is not changing the root cause.

Please let us know if you had any testing performed by your vet (LDDS, ACTH, ultrasound maybe?!) - your girl may not even have Cushing's at all. The symptoms are very similar to other conditions.

What has your vet mentioned to you about this?

Keep us posted
Terry

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eazy,

This is very worrying to me. Supraglan is, to be polite, snake oil and is dangerous for any dog but especially for a Cushing's or Addison's dog. This product claims to treat BOTH conditions. Cushing's and Addison's are polar opposite conditions requiring OPPOSITE treatments. Simple logic says no one product can "cure" both conditions.

Supraglan contains licorice. According to numerous Holistic vets licorice should NEVER be given to a dog with Cushing's.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/empty-promises-not-medicine/


Ok, now here’s the tough part. What’s the evidence to support these dramatic claims? You guessed it–reams of testimonials from “satisfied customers” and not one single research study of any kind. Some of the claims for the specific ingredients are found in reference guides to herbal therapy, usually based only on tradition or limited suggestive in vitro or lab animal studies. A search of the usual source, including Pubmed, Cochrane Reviews, even the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, which is quite friendly to herbal medicine in general, turned up not a single study that lent any support at all to the idea that these ingredients, individually or in combination, are a safe and effective treatment for Cushing’s disease.

I did find a few studies suggesting why some of the ingredients might be a bad idea to use in these patients. Licorice is known to cause pseudohyperaldosteronism, a hormonal imbalance which messes up the levels of sodium in the blood and can cause high blood pressure and even interfere with proper diagnosis of adrenal disease. Wild yams have been thought to increase some steroid hormones, and so have been used as a treatment for menopausal symptoms, but in reality it does not actually increase steroids, and its apparent effects on symptoms was likely due to adulteration of commercial yam products with synthetic hormones.

Here is one review from vets -

http://www.askavetquestion.com/answer_np.php?id=2767-supraglan-for-cushings


I found many posts on VIN from vets whose clients were asking about the effectiveness of Supraglan for cushing's. None of the homeopathic vets were in favor of it. Here is a summary of some of the concerns these vets had:

The makers of this product are not members of the NASC (National Animal Supplement Council). If a natural product for pets carries an NASC seal then you can be more certain that it is a reliable product. Supraglan does not carry this seal.

The product is made for both Cushing's disease (overactive adrenal glands) and Addison's disease (underactive adrenal glands). Some of the herbs in the product are meant to stimulate the adrenal glands. This is exactly the opposite of what you would want for Cushing's disease.

One of the well known veterinarians who is a specialist in "alternative medicine" simply said, "This is one of the more bizarre herbal companies/formulas I've seen."

I am totally, fully against Supraglan and/or Cushex being used in any pup with Cushing's or Addison's disease. I am studying canine nutrition and herbalism so this is coming from someone who absolutely believes in the medicinal value of Holistic approaches. However, these products are not Holistic regardless of how they are presented. The word "Holistic" means the whole dog is considered in treatments of any kind. Recommending a product that is untested, unresearched, and contains ingredients known to be contraindicated for Cushing's is not what a responsible Holistic vet would do. It would NOT benefit the whole dog.

Please let us help you and Tudi. Cushing's does not have to mean a death sentence. With proper treatment these babies can and do live their full lifespans and often beyond.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

I just wanted to let you know that I have written to every online company who makes a claim that their product is effective in treating cushing's. The manufacturer of Supragland was very forthcoming and readily admitted that they have done absolutely no scientific testing/studies to prove the efficacy of their product and more importantly, it's adverse affects on dogs. They are shameless for preying on frustrated and frightened pet owners who are looking for something benign to make their dogs better. Here is the exact response I received.


Hi Glynda,

Unfortunately no scientific tests or trials have been conducted on this product to support the claims you inquired below about.
The items we offer on www.petwellbeing.com are not drugs or medicines, but rather all natural herbal alternatives. Please be aware that these products are not guaranteed to cure or treat all animals, as each individual animal and their situation's are different.



PetWellbeing Customer Service

1-877-633-2401

http://www.petwellbeing.com

To use their own words, each animal is an individual and their situations are different so the $64 thousand dollar question is why in the world would you peddle something that you have absolutely no idea whether it will help or harm an animal? Their success is based solely on testimonials, not scientific evidence and I wonder how many who didn't write testimonials ended up at the vet because their dog had a bad reaction to whatever it is in a bottle of Supraglan. We've had members who wrote glowing testimonials for Supraglan who ended up here because they thought the symptoms were better but they weren't or it was short lived. I would, therefore, suggest that you not write any testimonials until your vet can check for improvements in your dogs cortisol levels and blood and urine abnormalities. In the meantime, you can call Supraglan at the number in the quote I provided above and ask them if it is okay to give glucosamine concurrently with their product. Keep in mind though, that the only experience they have with concurrent use of supplements and drugs is based on testimonials, not rigorous testing necessary to mitigate undue risks to animals.

Glynda

[eazyrider]

im sittinig here feeling like a fool..did these companies sell me snake oil..as i posted earlier...(and sorry i didnt get back to everyone sooner).ive been giving my girl tudi supraglin until they changed the formula to adreanal harmony..she has been on this stuff for 6 months and i could of swor n i saw improvement in her.but 6 months later see is back to the same syptoms of cushings..did i go forward or backwards..i dunno..im going to make an appointment for the vet..i give up on giving her all this stuff..she also developed catarcts and i again gave her a product called can-c..it claims to help with her catarcts..again..i dunno..to many i dunno here for me..im taking her to the vet..i found the blood work that i had done on her 8 months ago..is there a way i can send it to someone to look at..id appreciate it....i dont know what to do...:confused:................EZ..can you put attachments on these post?..thanks everybody for the kind words:)

[Harley PoMMom]

You can send the bloodwork results to our website gmail addy: k9cushings@gmail.com

Please do not be so hard on yourself, these companies should be ashamed of themselves for selling products that really do not work.

I am glad you are getting Tudi to the vet and please do let us know how this goes.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eazy,

Like Lori said, don't beat yourself up. The makers and promoters of these snake oils take advantage of our emotional situations to line their own pockets. They do not care one whit about the animals nor their humans who love them so dearly - they care only about making money off of our fear, pain and grief. And they are very good at that.

That fear, pain, and grief? Those feeling are born from our deep love for our babies. And while those emotions may blind us and try to steer us in the wrong direction at times, it is always love at the helm. Our love drives us to seek the kindest, quickest, most effective way to help our babies deal with this new facet of their lives - and the folks behind Supraglan, Cushex, etc. know that fully well. They offer a rope to a drowning parent...but fail to tell the parent that rope is made of cooked spaghetti. Your love for Tudi caused you to grasp that rope. You acted out of love, pure and simple. And now your love for her has made you aware.

Please let us know what the vet has to say and what the next step will be. We are right by your side, honey.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang