Gigi, 13 yr old toy poodle

[Tphelan100]

Hello! I am at my wits end. Three years ago, Gigi's coat started thinning and she began drinking water like crazy. Eventually they tested her for Cushings. Her levels were close, but she didn't fall in the range so he said she did not have Cushings. She was tested two more times in the last two years. Again she came even closer but not within the range needed. In April, she lost her appetite and wouldn't eat. Bloodwork showed positive for anaplasmosis. Vet did not want to put her on Doxycycline since she has sensitive stomach and is on a canned diet of Duck and rice limited ingredients. In April 2012, he had 8 teeth pulled and seemed to be her old self. A week after she went off the antibiotics for her teeth, she started feeling poorly again. No appetite and lethargy. Last two weeks. I am literally force feeding her. She is cold in 75 degree house. Her back legs tremble a little when standing. Next week he wants to aspirate lymph nodes or salivary glands since they are like tiny marble. She has a little trouble swallowing. He also wants to do a stomach ultrasound. I just don't know if this vet is on the right track when my gut still says she has Cushings even though she's not falling in the range. She also is a marker and when we go for walks, she'll mark 13-14 times, so I can't tell if she is urinating more. Any help would be appreciated....... Terry . PS her gave me Mirzatapine to stimulate her appetite. Her heart was racing last night but she ate this morning. I don't want to give her the next dose

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

This does not sound like Cushing's at all but could be diabetes. I would ask my vet for a referral to an IMS (Internal Medicine Specialist) but get her sugar checked asap....like now, if it has not been checked very recently, meaning in the last week or so. Diabetes can come on suddenly and loss of appetite is one of the big signs.

I think I would go ahead with the ultrasound but have them look at all the organs, not just the stomach, AFTER labs and the Blood Glucose is checked.

How old is Gigi? Does she have any known health issues? Is she on any meds, supplements or herbs? If so, what and what for? The more you can tell us, the more meaningful input we can offer.

From what you have said so far, tho, Cushing's is not at the top of my list of possibilities for her.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

I agree with Leslie that Gigi's symptom pattern does not sound at all like Cushing's to me. However, many of her symptoms do sound consistent with anaplasmosis (ehrlichiosis) for which you know she has already tested positive. The fact that she improved while on an antibacterial course makes the tick-borne disease possibility even more likely, I should think. However, she may need a longer or different antibiotic regimen to totally control the disease. Sensitive stomach or not, I'm not sure I understand your vet's decision to leave it untreated last spring when she first lost her appetite. If that disease is allowed to chronically progress, it can cause many serious problems.

Before getting involved in any further diagnostics, I "second" Leslie's advice that you consult with a specialist. More involved bloodwork might be the first priority, before any biopsies or imaging.

Marianne

[Tphelan100]

Thank you for responding so quickly to my post. I also apologize for the grammar since in the first post, I was using an iphone that is not connecting properly to the net and I could not see the screen as I was typing. I now have computer access so I can edit my post.
The vet did labwork in April and just this past Monday. Her white blood count was slightly elevated both times. He said it meant that she has a mild infection, but there is no follow-up. When I push about the anaplasmosis and Doxycycline, he said it will wreak havoc on her stomach yet he is doing nothing about the anaplasmosis. He said she does not present as a typical case and that often they are false positives. With typical bloodwork, would they have checked her glucose levels ? Is that something they do routinely? I will ask him specifically about checking for diabetes.
Gigi is not on any herbs or medications. She has a collapsed trachea but only coughs after exercise or drinking water. Once in a while, I give her cough syrup. For two weeks after she got her teeth cleaned, she coughed as if she had whooping cough. I'm sure it was from the tube being put down her throat to get her teeth cleaned and extracted, but I was not happy about that. I put Tacrolimus ointment in her eyes twice daily for dry eye. She's always had food allergies and I went to a vet specialist years ago who gave up on me after about 4 months. I started with a base of pinto beans and potatoes and had to test all sorts of foods (individually) and she reacted with every single thing. Her skin would turn beet red and she would scratch like crazy. Her ears would get very hot, also. Finally, I began experimenting with canned dog foods and found the Limited ingredients does help her somewhat. Her ears still turn red and she can still scratch. The minute I try a different type of canned food, she turns beet red and the scratching begins anew. I can't even feed her treats because of this. (I give her little bits of her canned food as a treat). She is also extremely sensitive to medications and shots. She reacts negatively about 95% of the time. When she was a puppy (1999), the vet gave her a Leptospirosis shot and she had an anaphylactic reaction, vomiting and panting excessively. I raced back to the vet for help. The vet later gave her typical shots one at a time, but lately, I can't give her any shots due to this. I have had her titered the last 4 years. I also had to refuse the rabies because I think she would probably die now especially given her weakened state. (She is mostly in the house except for walks with me). When I gave her Benadryl for her scratching, she was a zombie and I quickly stopped. I thought she was dying.
I just noticed that she has a few pin-like sores in her mouth and I wonder if that is why she is having difficulty eating. She's been scratching at her mouth for weeks now.
She's just not herself and I know her current symptoms are not due to aging. BTW, her birthday is today. Happy 13th birthday, Gigi!! LOL. Thank you very much for your help and thoughts! Terry

[molly muffin]

Happy Birthday Gigi! :) And welcome to the forum.
I'm going to second the other opinions, IMS, now. I had to do that with my molly. My vet insisted she is cushings and gave me 30mg of Vetroyl to start taking. I didn't do it, said I wanted a copy of all her lab results for the last couple years and a consult to an IMS. There is a possibility of she is on her way to cushings, but further testing recommended by the IMS, showed her not to be cushings at this time.
I think that cushings is not the problem that needs to be treated at this moment. However, the other issues do need to be treated. If she was better on the antibiotics, worse when she came off them, then she should be back on them or another range of antibiotics because the infection has not cleared up. I had to do this with Molly in March of this year, after the vet took molly off anitibotics and her symtoms returned. She is now completely over that but had to be on antibiotics for another week and antiflora powder for 3 more weeks.
You could even take her to an ER Vet hospital this weekend, where they Will have an IMS on staff.

I'm really glad you found us. We have to get Gigi better!

hugs,
Sharlene

[Bo's Mom]

Happy Birthday to Gigi and welcome to such a wonderful forum. Please ask away as there are so many people here who can offer their advice and experience with dealing with anything that Gigi may be experiencing.

[Squirt's Mom]

Happy 13th Birthday, Gigi!


We hope you had a wonderful day!

Hugs,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick and Tasha

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Terry,

How is Gigi this morning? Is she eating any better? Some things that might stir her appetite are stinky things like Parmesan cheese, tuna (packed in water) or the water from the tuna, Green Tripe (which you can purchase canned in places like PetCo or PetSmart). As our babies age, they start to lose their senses just as we humans do, including scent. If their scene of smell is fading, they can't smell their food as well as they used to and seem to lose interest but sometimes when we can stinky it up a bit, they will smell that it is a food item and eat better.

We have discussed in the Everything Else section something called Satin Balls that are used to help pups gain weight and they might help Gigi eat better. Here is the link to that discussion which has recipes for the Satin Balls if you'd like to try them.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4081

There is an herb called Slippery Elm Bark that can help with appetite, too. It also has many other benefits and is very benign to use. Just make sure if you try this herb that it is given 2 hours either side of other meds or supplements as it does interfere with absorption of other meds taken with it. I use it for digestive issues with my itty bitty one who has stress colitis as well as any of the others when they have diarrhea. I have IBS and use it myself often. Others here have used it as an appetite stimulant with success so it can help. ;)

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

Let us hear from you when you can!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Tphelan100]

Aw....thanks for the birthday greetings! She's a teenager now...LOL!

[Tphelan100]

Gigi had an interesting weekend. The vet gave me a medicine on Friday called Mirtazapine to stimulate her appetite. After about an hour, she looked slightly agitated and began looking around. Then she began this "snorting" which is like a reverse sneeze and is not the same as her cough from the collapsed trachea. Often, when she gets dried out from an antihistamine she does this. I pinch her nose slightly and she breathes through her mouth and it eventually stops. But, I then picked her up and her heart was racing so fast I thought it was going to jump out of her body. I was so sorried and I knew it was connected to the medication. I looked it up and the heart racing can be a side effect. I was ready to bring her to the emergency vet, but I read in a few forums about this that when the medicine effects wear off this will, too. It was awful. The next morning, her heart was back to normal. Good news! The next day and into Sunday, she got off the couch and went to her bowl to....(sit down)...EAT!! Whoo hoo. What a site....sooooo nice!!! So, the medicine worked, but I still had to stop it. Today, she has no interest in her breakfast and she's lethargic once again.
I left a message for the vet and will talk to him tonight. I will ask him about diabetes, also. She is scheduled for Thursday to do an ultrasound and a needle aspiration of her lymph/salivary glands. I will ask them to do a heart ultrasound, too. I am leaning toward going to a specialist. The tests are cheaper if my vet does them and sends them. However, I do NOT want to go to a specialist and hear this, "Well, you know, we need to redo the same tests because we like to have our own guys do them and we have our own special equipment"....blah blah. (She has to be sedated on Thursday and I do NOT like this idea because she is so weak right now.) I absolutley do NOT want these tests repeated nor can I afford it. It will cost more for the specialist to do them.
Foodwise, in the past, whenever, I gave Gigi a dry treat or changed her dog food brand or even gave her a little people food such as chicken, the next day or two, she wouldn't eat and had a horrible stomach ache. This is when she is normally fine. So, now that she isn't eating and doesn't feel well, I do not feel that I can experiment with foods since it might make her worse. Argh!! I'll ask my vet about Slippery Elm Bark with her. He's not a holistic vet, per se, but he does quite a bit of natural stuff. You guys give good suggestions.
If she doesn't have Cushings, I don't want to take up your time on this forum. I feel bad even now writing about her issues when your gut feeling after reading my post was that she doesn't have the Cushings. I don't know what would cause her hair to thin so much and drink water like crazy, but the tests don't point to it. These symptoms were about 3 years before this food issue which has been going on since April 2012.
Thanks again for all your helpful suggestions.
Terry (and the teenager)

[Steph n' Ella]

Have you ever tired a bland diet of boiled chicken and rice? That might help the inflammation in her stomach calm down. There are lots here who are very knowledgeable on k9 diet and calming stomach upsets! Slippery Elm Bark is popular. I am sure they would love to share with you!

This is my fav recipe:

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

[Harley PoMMom]

If she doesn't have Cushings, I don't want to take up your time on this forum. I feel bad even now writing about her issues when your gut feeling after reading my post was that she doesn't have the Cushings.

Please know we are always here for you and Gigi and if it turns out that she does not have Cushing's, we hope that you both stay here, as you both are family now. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[molly muffin]

Oh no. You can't leave now! :) My Molly does not yet have a firm diagnosis of cushings. Problems are problems though and figuring it out is important. Here you have a group of people who will support you whether it is or isn't cushings.
Nope, once you come in the door, it's official, you become family. For better or worse and we will always hope for better.

Hugs,
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Terry,

What?! Take up our time?! Phooey! :D As Sharlene and Lori said, ya'll are family now and this family sticks together. We are all interested in learning what is going on with your sweet girl so please do keep in touch and never hesitate to ask questions even if it isn't about Cushing's. We may be able to answer you or at lease direct you where you can find the answers you need.

And do let us know what you learn from the vet.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Tphelan100]

How can I leave now when everyone is soooo nice and helpful? LOL. Thank you for your support.
She was scheduled for an ultrasound tomorrow with my regular vet. We both have been leaning toward taking Gigi to a specialist but I wanted him to do the tests first and have the specialist look at them because they are about 50% cheaper done by him. However, I called the specialist (internal medicine) and they said that they really do not want to read someone else's ultrasound. I decided to just go to the specialist and they had an opening today. I bit the bullet. The vet was a woman and I LOVED her. I mentioned the Mertazapine and what it did and right away she said that it was good maybe for diagnostic puposes (the med did stimulate her appetite) but that ultimately she wanted to get to the bottom of the problem with Gigi. YES!!!!!! I do not want to medicate this dog without really finding out what is wrong. She looked at the testing that was done in May (for Addison's) and she said "These numbers show that she DOES have Addison's"! WAAAAAATTT???? She said that she wanted to contact my vet and went to the back with Gigi to do the Ultrasound. The ultrasound was normal. Yea! She did mention that her adrenals were a little small but that she did find them. She contacted my vet's office, but he was not in so she will call me tomorrow. Re: the anaplasmosis. She did say that almost every dog will test positive for it. Said the same as my regular vet. She does not believe that this is her problem.
I asked her to look inside her mouth as I saw a slight pin-like sore. Gigi will not let me touch her back upper molar on her right side. She yelps and pushes away. She had about 8 teeth out in April (she already had another 8 removed a few years ago). She has almost no teeth left. The vet said that she was protective when she tried to look inside her mouth, but what stood out was her halitosis. Right before she got her teeth pulled, her breath smelled like a sewer. It was gross. Just lately, I'm noticing the same smell. I had been trying to brush her teeth but she won't let me near her right side anymore. She was puzzled by the halitosis and said that maybe I should have the tooth XRayed by a dental vet. (AY AY...more specialists...didn't even know that they existed!!). I'll keep you posted after she calls me tomorrow.
Anyhooooooo! That's what happened today. How is everyone else doing? Hugs, Terry

[Steph n' Ella]

Sounds like a great specialist! I was very impressed when my IMS did Ella's ultra sound. She even brought her lap top into our meeting and showed me the images of her organs as we talked about it! Poor Gigi and her teeth! Hope others will come by with some suggestions on what the halitosis might mean. Also have some Addisons folks here too! I am sure they will check in!

[Harley PoMMom]

She looked at the testing that was done in May (for Addison's) and she said "These numbers show that she DOES have Addison's"!

Hi Terry,

Could you post the results of the test that was done which the IMS said pointed to Addison's....Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Addison’s*

http://canineaddisonsinfo.com/
http://k9addisons.com/faqs/
http://pet-diseases.suite101.com/article.cfm/addisons_disease_in_dog
http://www.inmetrodetroit.com/pets/dachshund/frederick/addisons.htm
http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/deaddisons.html
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AddisonDogs_/
http://canineaddisonsinfo.com/Support.html

Just for info....you STILL can't leave us! :p

[Tphelan100]

Update: I waited all day for the new vet to call me regarding the talk with my vet. At 5:30, I called and she had left for the day. I really liked her and I was sure that she wouldn't NOT call him. I figured that she couldn't get a hold of my vet and would call tomorrow. Then my vet called at 6:30 and asked what the new vet had said. I told him that she was supposed to call today and quickly gave him a synopsis. He said that he left a personal message early in the morning in response to her, he said that he knows her, and she always calls back and didn't call him, so he thinks the messages got crossed. He looked at the numbers from his testing in May which said it was inconclusive and said that he might have to redo part of the test (ACTH). He did say that one number was low indicating possible Addison's. I told him that on the ride home yesterday, I had forgotten to put on her sweater. When we got home, I looked over, and there's poor Gigi on the couch shivering like crazy. My house is at 75 degrees F., very comfortable. I live in CT and the days have been beautiful here, in the high 70's. She's been doing this for months and this is one of the symptoms that I've been telling him that is NOT normal. I put three blankets on her and it took at least half an hour to get warm. I looked up Addison's last night again and this is one of the symptoms. I remember that this is why I insisted in May to have her tested for Addison's. The not eating and the lethargy are also classic signs. DUH!!
I don't have a copy of the results of the testing in May. I will ask for a copy, but if you want to know what is normal and what is not, you might want to ask your vet instead of looking at my results because they were so "inconclusive" according to my vet. I'll ask the new vet what she thinks the normal/abnormal ranges are and get back to you on that.
That would have been nice if my new vet brought out the laptop showing me the ultrasound, but she didn't . That would have been cool. Thank you for the websites for Addison's. They are helpful and I will stay here cuz you guys make me feel VERY welcome. Initally, I didn't want to take up any of your time if it wasn't Cushings, but you guys sound like an eclectic mix and willing to discuss other issues. Thanks a bunch.
PS. How do you guys post the pictures to the left of your names?" I can do that with Gigi if I knew how!!

[frijole]

Do stay on and keep us posted ok?

Here's a link re posting a photo next to your named (avatar)

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2018

:) Kim

[molly muffin]

Oh yes! We want a picture of Gigi! want it, want it, want it

How frustrating! It does sound like addisons doesn't it. I wonder why a vet would not pursue that with all possible diligence considering the symptoms. *sending the vet "THE LOOK" it's deadly, don't laugh! :) :) :) :) :) :)

Hope the new vet calls you tomorrow. If nothing by lunch, call her again. Don't make us give her "the look" too. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

ooooooo, no, she don't want the k9c LOOK! :eek:

:p:D:p:D

[Tphelan100]

You guys are too funny!! :D I did post a pic of Gigi as well as another pic of her and her sisters.
Here's the latest on Gigi. The specialist and my vet agreed that they wanted to repeat one panel of the testing, so I brought her in last Thursday. He called me on Friday and said that the results were low. Normal scores range from 8-17 while she got a 4.7. However, the Addison's scores are supposed to be around the 1 area. So, I guess she has Atypical Addison's since it is not clear cut with her. The vet prescribed prednisolone and I just gave her a dose with food. I hope she doesn't have any negative reaction. I hope she perks up.
I guess that's all for now. Thanks for listening and helping. It is very much appreciated. Terry ;)

[Nikki]

I was just commenting on how cute your picture was and I realized your from Connecticut!!! How weird, I'm from CT too. It seems like there are people from all over the place on this website but your the first person from CT that I've seen :). Your dogs are adorable!!

[Bo's Mom]

What a sweet picture of all your babies...they are adorable. I have 2 poodles and just love the heck out of them. Hope Gigi is doing well on the Predisone. Please update us when you can.

[Steph n' Ella]

Gigi looks so sweet! Like you could put her in your pocket to love on where ever you are!

[molly muffin]

Here I go again, bugging people. :) How are you and Gigi doing? I do hope that you'll find time just to stop by, say hello and give us an update. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Tphelan100]

Heeeeeey Sharlene and Molly! You're not bugging me AT ALL! Gigi was put on .25 mls of Prednisolone after being diagnosed with Atypical Addison's in September 2012. I think she had Cushings first if that's possible. Her electrolytes are OK so far but fall close to the low level which concerns me. I hope I don't have to put her on some of the harsher meds like Florinef. Soon after she began taking the steroid, she went from a dog who wouldn't eat and could barely lift her head up to see who was entering the room to my little poodle who is now dancing in front of and barking at the fridge for food, romping in the backyard, barking at the mailman, etc! She's baaaack!! She's like a little puppy. Woot woot! It's wonderful to see her like this! This is the first Email I've received from the group in over a month. Is the group just quiet or are my settings not right? How is everyone else? Many regards, Terry and Gigi
Gigi.... 10 lb toy poodlE
Diagnosed Sep 2012 with Atypical Addison's.

[lulusmom]

Hi Terry,

Yay for the good report on Gigi. :D:D:D I seriously doubt that there is anything wrong with your settings. It's just that if members don't update us, we lose track of their threads. In this case Sharlene triggered a notification to you when she posted to your thread. Don't be a stranger and keep us updated on your cutie pie.

Glynda

[GabbySue]

Good to hear the Gigi is feeling so much better!! Amazing what a little tiny bit of a steroid will do!

I'm in CT too and had a Cushings dog that went Addison's too, now she is on Pred and Injections of Percorten, she feels soooo much better now.


Tiffany

[molly muffin]

Yay! that is great that gigi is back to being the one you know so much better than the one who wouldn't lift her head! wooot woooot

Okay, lesson in forum notifications. Your thread might be quiet because everything is going well and it hasn't been updated. Now, that is all find and dandy, but maybe you have friends threads, furbabies or others that you want to follow and see when one of their threads is updated.... That is what I do and there are always tons of email every day and I set aside some time to go through them and then to answer. I still manage to miss some even doing that. You get one notification for the thread, at which point you'd want to click the link to the forum, because there could actually be an animated conversation going on, but the notifications would only show you that one notify.

So you probably know where the active threads are, but here is a link:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9

You can see the ones that have updated since your last vist, you can also click on "new posts" at the top of the forum, to show ones updated since your last login/visit.

So, now you know where the threads are. Click on one and if you want to follow it, you can go to the bottom when you are posting and click advanced options, and change the setting there to Instant email notifications or whatever you want.

You may also under "thread tools" at the top, subscribe to a thread.

That should get you started and you'll never be without the forum email again. :) Do let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to answer them. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[molly muffin]

Hey Terry! Stopping in to wish you and Gigi a Happy Thanksgiving and mucho belly rubs!

Did you get a chance to figure out the how to get alerts on the forum, etc? Let me know if you run into any problems!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin