New to the site and always looking for info (8 y/o Great Pyrenees) Atypical

[Vail'sMom]

Hi, I'm Jill...better known as Vail's Mom!

I have an 8yr old Great Pyrenees that after 3 years and four vets has been diagnosed with 1. Atypical Cushing's, 2. Alopecia X, and 3. Allergies to beef, chicken, eggs...basically he is now a Pescatarian (good thing he loves fish, fruit and veggies). Almost all of his symptoms have been managed through a combo of Melatonin, Lignans, Fish Oil, Biotin, Probiotics, and HUGE daily doses of hugs and love! I do have one thing I haven't been able to figure out...he has stomatitis on one portion of the inside of his mouth. Of the vets he has seen, no one is sure what it is, but they weren't very familiar with the Atyp. Cushings or Alopecia X either. A biopsy was done in January with a benign result. We tried treating it with clindamycin, but that didn't really help (only made him picky about food and gave him very loose stools for the 4 weeks he was on it...thank goodness for probiotics and Albon!)

Does anyone have any familiarity with mouth sores and Atypical Cushing's? The patch has started bleeding on and off in the last week and I don't know what to do or to whom I should turn...any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks to all!

[labblab]

Hi Jill,

Welcome to you and Vail! We are very glad you've found us, and I look forward to reading more about your sweet boy. I noticed yesterday that you had posted a note on Zoe Claire's thread, and unfortunately it has been quite a long time since we've gotten an update on Zoe. However, in answer to your question there and here, I don't believe a mouth sore is a symptom that has otherwise been reported here in conjunction with either conventional or Atypical Cushing's. My only thought is that perhaps Vail's sore is
related to chronic immunosuppression that can be associated with endocrinological abnormalities, resulting in manifestation of more frequent bacterial or fungal skin disorders of different types.

I'm assuming Vail's Atypical diagnosis was made through a full adrenal hormone panel analyzed at UTK? Can you tell us when the testing was done, and the actual test results would be great. Also, what other symptoms were you seeing that are now well controlled?

As for his mouth sore, by any chance could you request a referral to a doggie dermatologist? Perhaps they might have some innovative treatment options to offer out.

Again, best wishes and we're so glad you've joined us.

Marianne

[Vail'sMom]

Hi all,
I joined back in August and I've had my hands full over the last few months. My Great Pyr is now 9 and still battling both Atypical Cushings and Alopecia X (he's still here, so we're still winning!!!). In October he had surgery to remove a rather large squamous cell carcinoma from inside his mouth on his lip (fortunately with the large lip the surgeon had plenty to work with)...margins were clear after biopsy and they didn't think that it had metastasized. We've been battling increasing liver enzymes with most recent labs: ALK=944 and ALT=159. The local vet decided she wanted to start him on Denamarin to see if it will help his liver enzymes...funny thing...after 6 weeks his values hadn't changed, but some of the symptoms that led to the Atyp. Cushings and Alopecia X diagnoses came back....so after MUCH reading, I came across a number of readings stating that milk thistle may aggravate hormone sensitive conditions. I then went on to read that dandelion root can have the same effects.
1. I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this or has any experience with it?
2. Has anyone tried using Burdock root for liver and immune support?

Thank you all,
Vail's Mom

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about Burdock Root into Vail’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

Good to hear from you again and especially to hear that Vail is doing well after his surgery!

I used Burdock with Squirt until recently when I decided perhaps the alcohol content was too much for her. She'd been taking it along with some other herbal tinctures off and on for nearly 4 years so I decided to give her a break. Her liver values never seemed to be affected by the Burdock one way or the other than I could tell. I hope to be able to get her started back on some of these herbs we were using but whether they will be a tincture or not, I don't know.

She took Milk Thistle capsules for several months when first diagnosed then suddenly started throwing them back up - the capsule gone but the herb intact still shaped like the capsule. I tried a MT tincture and glycerite with the same results. As her ALP has gotten higher and higher I decided to try it again but this time am using the dried Milk Thistle seed directly into her feed and so far, no problems. She's been on it for about 3 months now. I give it 3-5 days a week, about 1/8 tsp / day. I haven't had labs done since starting the MT so I can't say if it has helped or not. Milk Thistle is the go-to herb for liver toxicity and support.

I went to look in my books about Milk Thistle and hormones but didn't find anything. One text does say - "Silymarin has been reported to stimulate activity of the p-glycoprotein drug transporter. (Zhou, 2004) (Veterinary Herbal Medicine, Wynne & Fougere) Now exactly what that could mean for the meds our cush pups take, I'm not sure but MT is often recommended for them by herbalists and Holistic vets alike. Some other herbs you can look into for hepatic support are Artichoke Leaf (Cynara scolymus), Schisandra (Schisandra chinensis), and Turmeric (Curcurma longa).

Hope that helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[otiswoman]

Hi,

My dog has cushings and atypical. My vet reccomended Denamarin for the liver ( an herbal supplement) and it brought the liver back to normal If the Denamarin is too expensive for you , you could try milk thistle ( one of the components in denamarin.

Otiswoman

[Squirt's Mom]

I want to clear something up - if a pup has elevated cortisol, they do not have Atypical. It doesn't matter if the intermediates are also elevated, the key is whether or not the cortisol is elevated. If it is elevated, then the pup has true Cushing's, not Atypical. Atypical Cushing's means there are elevations in one or more of the intermediate hormones but the cortisol is normal. So a pup cannot have both Atypical and true Cushing's. They are one or the other, and the cortisol determines which category a cush pups falls into. ;)

[Vail'sMom]

Thanks so much for the reply. Vail has Atypical Cushing's and Alopecia X (both imbalance in hormones, but not cortisol), and I have read some studies where there may not an issue with milk thistle aggravating hormone sensitive conditions like Atypical Cushing's and Alopecia X...so I am looking into the option of Burdock root which doesn't seem to have the same problems.
I actually had him on Denamarin for the last 8 weeks and saw no change in his liver enzymes, but did see a return of some of his pre-Atypical Cushing's and alopecia X diagnoses symptoms. So I've since stopped the Denamarin...initially I thought there may have been chicken or beef in the Denamarin chewable but we were told by the manufacturer that is not the case, and I tried switching him to the pill form, but no change...it's just so frustrating, but I appreciate your help

[Vail'sMom]

Thank you so much...I will definitely look into the artichoke leaf and others...there are so many things I have to be careful of with his allergies and his other diagnoses that it takes considerable research and reaching out to others to try to find things that will work for Vail. He's also 167 lbs. of separation anxiety, so that makes some testing and procedures near impossible, and/or simply not worth putting him through the stress...

[Squirt's Mom]

Well, I spoke too soon about Squirt and how well she was doing with the MT - that same afternoon she vomited so it has been stopped once again. I have been looking into Schisandra and would really like for her to be on it but after some research I've decided it won't work well with the Lysodren she is on. So, I'll keep looking into things like you and hopefully we will both find something to help our babies.

Anxiety can be so hard to handle. I had a little foster that was at first so skittish it wasn't funny, then she became overly attached and would panic when I left the house, even just to go outside. She would throw herself against the bathroom door if I closed it and would race around the bathroom whining while I took a bath. I couldn't be gone very long at all or she was apt to hurt herself even in a plastic carry case that was absolutely empty. She had come from a sad situation and went from one extreme to the other as she adjusted to the changes in her life. She found a home with two disabled sisters who are home all the time and she is happy as can be - as are the sisters and her new brother. But she weighed around 4 1/2 lbs....I can't imagine one Vail's size flying at you, shaking like mad!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Vail'sMom]

Thanks Leslie,
It's so nice to know there is someone out there that understands the anxiety issues! Fortunately for me, Vail is fine as long as I am in his field of vision...my husband has been a career Marine (who just retired) and all the moving made for years of exasperating explanations of just how bad the anxiety is, and being told "oh he'll (Vail) be fine once you leave"...only to be called less than 5 minutes later and told that I have to come back because he can't be calmed...needless to say, we have a great vet now who at least calls ahead when she refers us out to let the vet know that I NEED to stay with Vail through everything....oh the stories I could tell! Thank goodness for an operating room nursing background! Needless to say, Vail gives a whole new meaning to BIG baby and Mama's boy! I'll be sure to keep you posted if I find anything.
- Jill