Molly, 13 yr, shih tzu - lhasa aspo - Molly has passed

[addy]

Looks like we are all having bad weather, hope you are ok. We had 5 and counting inches of rain. I have taken water out of the pool twice:rolleyes: The rest of the subdivision has no power, ha, it usually our side of the street but I finally got a break!!!

When do you leave for whale watching? I want to hide in your suitcase;)

[molly muffin]

yikes you must have gotten some solid downpours. We had one yesterday. Hubs came home in the middle of it and was drenched from car to house. Then when he got in, him and molly hung out on the couch while she had the shakes. Soon as the storm was over, she took a nap and was fine.
She currently has her dental bone and is chewing on it with her tail just wagging as fast as can be. That dog sure does get happy over those things.

Judi, Keesh's mom got a bad tornado up her way that did a lot of damage to about 100 homes. Missed her though thank god. Missed us too.

Eeek I hate losing power. Every since we had that big power outage throughout the entire northeast, I have said I need to get some solar powered items.

I'm working on it. I'll be getting some solar power flashlight, radio hopefully, now have a solar power speaker and phone charger. Slowly but I'm getting there. Item by item. :)

We leave next week, Thursday morning, but I'm taking the majority of Wed off too. Work is driving me nuts. LOL Everything feels so topsy turvy, one minute we're negotiating manager, then I hear they are cutting people and I will probably move to a different department but doing the same job, my Director is retiring so they are reorganizing, then I get more work projects thrown on my plate. A co-worker that is mostly a pain in the tush and a chip as wide as north ameica on his shoulder and I just want to scream. Hubs says I have to keep working at least part time though so we can retire some day, so there you have it. The good thing is that everything that doesn't go into the retirement fund goes into the molly fund. hahahahaha It's true, I work for the dog. Last month I was holding on to every cent hoping I didn't get cut, this month I just want to go see some whales.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Hi gang, well it's that time and I will be very limited online for the next 2 weeks, between work and the trip to newfoundland.

I hope you guy hope you all stay safe and healthy, you and pups, while I'm away. No crisis's allowed!!! Will miss you all.

Molly is having, an LDDS test again to check that nodule for secretion, IMS thinks it will come back negative. Another UPC to see if the high or the normal one is the real deal and she'll have her liver enzymes checked.

Meeting with the vet tomorrow to see what liver supplement to use. Turns out they don't seem to have anything with sam-e and milk thistle in it that she knows of, which I find hard to believe, so I'm researching tonight for an option here in canada. joy joy.

Take care all I'll peek in when I can!
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

HI Sharlene!!

Glad I caught you to say have a fantastic trip away!!! Sounds like such an awesome and fun trip to be going on!! I will try and keep Flynny away from crisis while you are away!

Is Molly in today having her tests?? Hope it goes well Sharlene, worrying time waiting for results so Flynn and me have our paws crossed!

Ask about Samilyn, that has both the sam-e and milk thistle in it. Take it from me, it is not cheap though!! I have had a talk with week with Mike, he is looking into them more too. Denosyl does not have milk thistle, Denamarin has both, but it is a little lower in strength than Samilyn.

[Woodydog]

Glad I caught you too have a fantastic time away. Hoping Molly's tests are all good :)

[mcdavis]

Have a wonderful trip Sharlene.

I used S-Adenysol-100 for Hamish because it had milk thistle, however I'm not sure if its available in Canada.

[molly muffin]

No, molly isn't have the test till while we are away, so I won't know results till we get back.

S-Adenysol-100 does have milk thistle in it. Interesting. The one my vet looked at didn't, maybe it wasn't the 100. I'll ask her tomorrow when we meet to discuss. I've already mentioned Denamarin, need to find out the maker of that, as I haven't found it available in Canada. Also will mention the Samilyn.

Thanks gang!

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
My vet wanted me to use the S Adenosyl as he said it had more good benefits that the Hepato Support I was using?? I know a lot use the Denamarin, but I have never tried it. I hope your vacation is wonderful and you take some whale pictures for us. Wait Sharlene isn't that the week we are supposed to switch?? Haha. It is raining here if you can believe it. It was sunny all day. I told you Tipper went potty out in a storm the other nite with thunder and the works, tonite a raindrop beaned her and she was in a full panic?? I guess she may have lower cortisol tonite, which I am watching her like a hawk. We will miss you the next two week, so be safe and have fun you deserve it. Blessings
Patti

[mcdavis]

If I remember correctly I gave Hamish (around 15lbs) the S-Adenysol-100 (purchased from Amazon.com) plus Hepato Support because the total amount of milk thistle was below the total amount the bet said he could have. I need to see if I still have any records.....

[flynnandian]

hi sharlene, i hope you will see a lot of whales and other sea animals.
is molly coming with you, or is she staying somewhere?
hope you can relax a bit from all the work stress.

[goldengirl88]

Yes I would like to know about the milk thistle too as I did ask my vet if I should still give it with the Adenosyl and he did not say. I used the 100 for Tipper too.

[Trish]

It's nearly time!!! Hope the packing is going well Sharlene!! I am excited for you both!! Have the camera handy, love to see whale/iceberg pics! xxx

[addy]

Did I just read you are watching whales for TWO WEEKS?

WOW, you go girl, have a ball, I thought is was just for a long weekend!!!

[molly muffin]

I wish it was for 2 weeks, more like one week, but I have been absolutely swamped at work and have been working over time to play catch up before I leave and then expect more when I get back.
Like I am off work completely tomorrow but still have some conference calls I have to make. Oh well, it's a job at least :)

Now, the important stuff, whales, puffins, hoping for some icebergs too, found a lighthouse picnic, and an archeological site, that we plan to go to.

Molly got groomed today and heads into the kennel tomorrow. She looks very cute and clean.

Not packed yet. I'm told to pack for layer clothing attire from friends who have been. They have mentioned seal meat, moose meat and cod tongue. *shiver* I told them I might not eat at all if that is the menu!!! and who the heck knew cods have tongues anyhow???

laters gang
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

Ohhhhh a cod tongue would not be very big!! :eek: Seat meat just seems wrong to me :( But I might be tempted to eat a moose! Whatever you get to eat, I hope it is tasty!!! Gosh, you are going to need a day or two to get into holiday mode, then look out!! Hope it is relaxing and fun for you both! xx

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
Enjoy your vacation you deserve it. Molly is all spiffed up and smelling good , now it is pouring rain! Every time I get Toby done it rains and he gets all messed up again. Blessings
Patti

[Woodydog]

Hope you have a fab, relaxing holiday and don,t worry Diva Molly will be fine :D

[apollo6]

Sharlene
Have a wonderful vacation.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
I know you are gone, but wanted to let you know you will be missed. I truly hope you see whales as they are such a wonder of nature and one does not get that many chances to see something so magnificent. Blessings
Patti

[beaglemom3]

Sharlene have a wonderful and safe vacation! It sounds amazing!

[Trish]

Soooooo... you have written on just about every single thread except Molly's!!! How was the trip, how was her stay at the kennel? Is she in good form and happy to see you, how were the tests? Any iceberg, whales, lighthouse photos to share.... so many questions??? LOL... SO good to see you back Sharlene, I missed you!! Hope work does not suck too much when you get back there! xxxx

[goldengirl88]

Hi Sharlene:
Just a quick post before Tipper and I go to the vet. I am so glad to see you are back and hope your time away was wonderful or should I say whaleful?? Blessings
Patti

[addy]

I hope you saw many, many whales. Did you bring a plastic one home for the pool as a keepsake:D:D:D:D:D

[molly muffin]

We are back, trip was good, saw icebergs and whales, puffins. It's a bit of a rolly polly province, with some really big hills. Went to an archeological dig, that was cool, did some hiking, had the picnic at the lighthouse (inside since it was pouring rain!) I'll get some pics up hopefully this weekend and share a link.

Molly is Home!!! Yay, my house is not really "right" when molly isn't in it. For her a little dog, she is a very Big presence. I won't know about any test results until the vet calls me, hopefully today with results. She wasn't there yesterday, they were closed other than an hour for pick up, drop offs on Monday and Tuesday. (holidays ya know).

Molly lost a pound while there and I sure hope I can keep it off her, because she moves much better without it. She is full of herself, running all over the house, reclaiming her space. Snoring in all her good sleep spots. Not as firm of poops as she has been having but being in a kennel always gives her a bit of a gastro upset. As long as she didn't pick up any bacteria while there, hopefully that will right itself in a few days.

I am back to work today and sure to be a lot of stuff to catch up on, so might take just a bit to get it all caught up. :)

Miss you guys too!

Hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Now why didn't I think of a plastic whale for the pool!!!!!!! :) :) :) :)

Sharlene

[jxeno13]

Hi! Hope you're doing OK and had a nice trip! Thank you for the cold front that you sent down from Canada!! It's much appreciated!! :D:D:D

[molly muffin]

hahaha, any time Jo Ann. Sent from NewFoundland I'm sure since it had some chilly days there. We're in the hot and humid stuff at the moment. :) But yea, hear we'll get cooler towards the end of the week too.

Molly will like that much better too as she'll be huffing by the time we get back from our walks with this stuff!

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
I know you had to go back to work, but I will be so thrilled to see your pics when you put them up. I am glad you saw all those things. The lighthouse picnic sounds fantastic. I am glad Molly is back and ruling the roost! I am guessing you will have her test results in the next few days. Hoping for good results for her. Thank you for checking in on Tipper. She was panting a lot at the vets too. Now she is resting in the cool sleeping away. It could be a rise in her cortisol and she gets her ACTH next week, so that will tell the tale. So glad to have you back, you were missed especially by me. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Thanks Patti. I'll try to get some pics up this weekend. The main problem is getting my husband to email me the ones that he took. He's always a bit lax in the emailing stuff like that to me department.

No news from the vet yet, so guess everything isn't back what with the holiday here and all.

I'll be patient, as much as that isn't generally a part of my personality. Grossly over rated is patience I say. LOL

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

glad that you had such a nice trip.
please send some cool and wet weather over here too.....thank you in advance!

[kaibosmom]

Hi. It sounds like you were on a vacation! A cool one too! I didn't read back far enough to see where you went. Still in Canada though by the sound of it. What tests is Molly having? It sounds like she is happy you are home :)

[mcdavis]

So pleased to hear you had a good trip and that Molly is back home. I know what you mean about the house feeling strange when they're not there - I hated going home whilst Hamish was at the groomers.

[molly muffin]

Molly had an LDDS, another UPC (the third to see if she is having protein loss issues, one good and one bad so far, so this should tell the tale), liver panel, to check those out. I think that was it. Enough for sure.

We went to NewFoundLand. I have to say that Ian Foster is an awesome muscian. His stuff is on itunes, and really, awesome singer, writer. We went to the release party of his new CD and it was great. This is his 6th cd. Just loved him and his music, great story teller.

I saw my first icebergs on only day 2 in town! That was very neat and then we saw Humpback and Fin whales. You didn't actually need to go out on a boat to see them, just drive up to Cape Spear and you could see both icebergs and whales. That is by the way, the most eastern point of north america or so I am told (by the signs posted of course) and we were there. That was cool too.

We are back to fighting diarrhea here. It is something about every time she goes to the kennels. *sigh* So, gave her probiotic tonight and hope that helps. This afternoon wasn't a good one for her though and we had to do the poopy bum when we got back. Poor dear. She doesn't seem to be feeling all that great at the moment. I'm sure the fireworks that got her going last night didn't help matters either.

Time for her next round of walkies!

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[AngelToto]

Sharlene,

Your post is extremely informative and helpful so I had to reach out. I did not know dogs could safely take probiotics. My vet has never suggested it. Does it typically help with diarrhea?

[kaibosmom]

That sounds amazing…the trip not the poops :( Hope she is on the mend soon and that the lab tests come back soon so you can stop waiting! I would say stop worrying but I am convinced that isn't possible with these Cushing's dogs.

The nutrition vet that is here called to check up on Kaibo as we have seen her before and she is retiring (June 30) and I told her he no longer needs the dietary constraints she recommended for Cushing's but we were having a really hard time controlling his diabetes. She recommended some probiotics and said they might help with the diabetes and take away some of the blood sugar spikes. I have to do some reading on this. I won't start anything until after his surgeries. I have also recently started looking into raw diet for him. There is still a big part of me that wonders if the lack of control has something to do with nutrition.

[Trish]

Hi Sharlene

Darn poops, hope we're not off on that wagon again!! Last time it went through heaps of the pups!!! Poor Molly, wonder if it is like stress colitis being upset in the kennels even though they take such good care of her there is no place like home!! Hope she comes right by tomorrow, ohhhh precious pup will not like the old butt wipey!!

Looking forward to the pics!! One more day to work, hurray (oops still two for you, sorry about that :D) !! xx

[molly muffin]

Hi angeltoto. Probiotics help to stabilize the bacteria in the gastro tract which can go off and contribute to diarrhea. My vet prescribed it every time and now I just keep some all the time. Some people give it daily. Others will give yogurt to do the same sort of thing.
I rather do think it is a type of stress colitis with Molly.
Nutrition is very important with diabetes so it can certainly play a part with kaibo. Hmmm. Probiotics if it helped would be major easy.

Hugs
Sharlene

[goldengirl88]

Sharlene:
I am with the others in thinking it was the stress from the kennel. I hope she gets well soon as that is a worry. You are probably not getting her results until after the 4th? I use the yogurt on Tipper I have been stuffing her kong with it and freezing it. It keeps her busy for a while licking it out and the cool I am sure soothes her in this weather. Blessings
Patti

[Boriss McCall]

HI Sharlene & Ms Molly!
I have missed you guys. I have been out of the loop for what feels like forever. coming back on the forum is scary not knowing what everyone has been going thru all these months.
Amy

[molly muffin]

No idea when I'll hear about the results. Nothing today. Yes, it is likely the kennel stress. Even though she gets extra play times, etc, it isn't the same as being home. Her poop was good this morning, so maybe that is going to be it.

Amy it is so good to see you again!

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi Sharlene:
Tipper is really enjoying her cooler weather!. I hope Molly is doing better and that it is over with? I bet it is hard coming home and settling back into the routine after such a nice vacation. Sometimes you need a vacation after your vacation! Blessings
Patti

[beaglemom3]

Welcome Home Sharlene! So glad you are back safe and sound and I bet Molly is happier than all of us put together! I am sorry to hear she has the runs, poor baby. Could be something they feed her there? and ofc stress being kenneled and away from her mommy and daddy. I hope she feels better very fast!

[addy]

Hope Molly is feeling better and you are getting some rest. I always need a vacation from my vacation:):):):):):):):)

The other night they were showing the beautiful beaches in Costa Rica. I have never been but the images sure were enticing!!!! Though, I think ice bergs and whales are pretty darn close!!!!!! I have never seen either one.

Enjoy your weekend!!!

[Trish]

Ohhhh I am just watching the soccer match at the world cup between Costa Rica and Netherlands... some pretty cute guys on that team Addy... so another good reason to visit Costa Rica :D

[molly muffin]

Costa Rica is lovely. Definitely was a hit when we went there on vacation a few years ago with friends.
I'm working to get some pictures posted to photobucket of the newfounland trip. Just waiting on hubby to get his uploaded then I'll post the link. :)

I had a chat with my vet today about molly's latest tests. I still need to go through the liver values before I post them, in comparison to the earlier ones, but the LDDS is still negative for cushings. So I guess that means the adrenal nodule is nonsecreting as the IMS suspected.

The UPC will need to be redone. It came back at 1.1, yes I know, not what we expected, however, the vet thinks the sample went off in transport. They always run an immediate in house test on it, that showed no bacteria, no crystals, and a good sample, protein and everything good. However, on the results returned from the lab, it showed, crystals too numerous to count, cloudy, WBC, Protein, and of course a very high UPC from previous ones. She said that wasn't consistent with the sample in house and so we'll be doing one or two more at least to verify results. (you need 3 consistent high) Very frustrating. Molly's urine was concentrated, at 1.045.
Also we discussed that stress colitis could have an effect on the UPC as I mentioned that it seems to be higher if something else is going on.

So, I'll post the liver values soon. I swear! I just haven't been online much this weekend so far.

Oh and she said that they couldn't get the S-Adenysol-100, only the one with the sam-e, but not milk thistle in it. So, milk thistle would have to be given separately. I told her that it can be ordered on amazon.ca. :)

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

HI Sharlene

Those darn UPC do seem to be variable, we have seen similar with Jasper and Flynn when other things are going on. So I think you are right not worrying too much about this result and getting the repeat. It does sound the transportation has affected it. I have wondered that before with Flynn's, I have to get the sample there real early so it gets sent the same day otherwise it sits in the fridge and goes the following day.

Great she is concentrating and a negative LDDS, our Molly remains a medical enigma! But that is our sassy girl :D:D Hopefully she can do you a prescription to get them combined, such a pain to be fiddling about with too many drugs, less is better and I am sure Molly would agree with me on that one! xxx

[addy]

Yup- sounds like a bad urine sample. The UPC does bounce around if something else is going on. We have all seen that happen.

Good news on the LDDS though.:):):):):):) Also good news she is concentrating her urine!!!


I think I heard someone declare it POOL DAY:D:D:D:D

[mcdavis]

Good news on the LDDS.
Do you need a prescription to buy the S-Adenysol-100 in Canada? I used to buy it from Amazon in the US and never needed a prescription.

[molly muffin]

You don't need a prescription to buy it on amazon.ca

I was planning to go through molly's test results tonight and post her liver results, but we've had high humidity the last couple days and by evening, it gives me a really bad headache.

I can't even begin to imagine how bad your's has been MC! :( I saw Arthur hit you guys. Some places had a lot of damage, so glad you only lost one tree.

I need to walk molly and make coffee for in the morning.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[AngelToto]

Molly can I ask what brought you to this website despite the negative Cushings diagnosis? Did they suspect it? What were your dogs symptoms?

[molly muffin]

Hi AngelToto,

In 2010, molly had her first LDDS test due to thinking that she had cushings. Since they have have continued to suspect cushings and retest her but it has consistently been negative. I joined the forum, when the vet was positive she had cushings and I needed to find further information about the disease and possible treatment options and diagnostic options. Since then I think I have spent some time every day, other than being away on vacations, thinking, breathing, canine cushings. Knowledge is always the key. The more you learn, the better you can work with your vet team and be an advocate for your furbaby.

That is what brought me here, and that is what keeps me here. I cannot imagine where we would be today if this forum did not exist. If I can help others who are walking the same path to become more knowledgable about cushings and to be a full member of their pets treatment, then that is a worthy endeavor.

:)
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Well I did say I would post her liver results didn't I. I've had some time to look them over and think about them a bit too. So, I'll post the last UPC's and liver, LDDS test:

UPC .06 May 30 2014
specific gravity 1.040
ph 5.5
protein .3 (1+)


UPC 1.1 June 26, 2014
specific gravity 1.045
ph 5.5
protein 3.0 (3+)
Ca 70 (1+)
WBC 3 - 5 hpf (1+)
crystals numerous

VET THINKS THIS SAMPLE went bad in transit, as the in house urinalysis was clear, but even in house
it looks like the protein is still on the high side. So this too I'll want rechecked.

LDDS June 26, 2014
base 100 nmol (range 30 - 300) = 3.62 uh
4 hour <27.59 = < 1.ug
8 hour 29 = 1.05ug

interpretation under <40nmol at 8 hour, their result - she is a normal dog without cushings

Liver Panel June 26, 2014

A/G Ratio 1.96 (range .60 - 1.90)
Albumin 44.4 (26.0 - 44.0)
ALP 1136 (4 - 141)
ALT 225 (6 - 118)
Gamma GT 12.0 (0.0 - 7.0)

Now, my thoughts. Yes, the vet thinks the sample might have gone bad during transit due to the comment of crystals too numerous to count, when they saw none in house. However, just a note, protein is high in both in house and in the lab on the urinalysis.

The ALT is going up at an alarming rate. It went from 162 in Dec 2013 to 225 in June 2015, 6 months. That is not good in my mind. Does this appear to be indicative of liver disease to you guys?
I have concerns about the protein going up so much in the urine sample and we will be retesting that in 2 - 3 weeks.

At this point I am not as concerned about a functioning adrenal tumor, with the LDDS being negative on that front. They seem to all think that if that was a functional one secreting cortisol, then she wouldn't be negative on the LDDS as most dogs with adrenal tumors secreting cannot suppress, 4 or 8 hours.

I do have some concerns that taking off of the SO food, might not have been so smart. As you can see, she isn't drinking and is very concentrated at 1.045 now.

So, am I worried, yes I am very worried about her liver. I know that haven't seen any nodules on the ultrasound but something is going on with her. If she has some sort of liver disease, then would that account for the ACTH being high?

Should I go forward with the flax hulls and melatonin, which the IMS wanted to see if bringing down the sex hormones would help the liver values? I'm leaning towards going forward with that. It won't hurt her I shouldn't think and we need something to help. I will be ordering the stuff you used for Hamish MC, for a liver supplement, I think the sam-e has to be included in this treatment.

Should I start them both at the same time? I'm thinking it matters less at the moment whether we know if it is the flax/melatonin or the sam-e if we can get that ALT down some.

okay, that is my thoughts for now.

hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Big hugs Sharlene. You know that I don't understand any of it, so sending hugs instead! :p

[Budsters Mom]

Check on the COOLING MATS thread that I posted on EVERYTHING ELSE. You will crack up! Consider the source! :D:D

[molly muffin]

I saw, I admired, I commented! You are fabulous!
hugs back atcha,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

Hey Sharlene, yes I would also be tempted to try the melatonin and flax seeds. I think like you, it is not going to do any harm. I think they have mentioned a liver biopsy in the past? What do your vets think about proceeding with that? I also would go with the liver supplement now too.

RE UPC I would retest again, so we can see the trends or if there was in fact a problem with the transporting. No need for treatment unless it goes >2.0. So she is a way off that for now thank goodness. I always see UPC go up if Flynny's liver tests are off. So hopefully if we get the liver working a bit more efficiently with the meds then UPC will go down again too. x

[labblab]

Yup, I would go ahead start the lignans/melatonin and liver support supplements, too. And like Trish, I guess I would be wondering about a liver biopsy, too.

But this is the thing, Molly has had highly elevated cortisol for a long time now, regardless of the LDDS results. I know this may be really unorthodox, but I am still wondering whether it wouldn't be prudent to get the cortisol level down significantly regardless of the cause (I'm still beating the drum for the maintenance Lyso...). I know we're stuck with the chicken vs. the egg dilemma, but all those lab abnormalities could be the result of chronic elevated cortisol, which we know Molly has from the repeatedly high ACTHs. And the ACTH has stayed consistent throughout time, even while the liver values have been worsening. This is what prompts me to think that it is the cortisol affecting the liver rather than vice versa.

Would you consider sending an email to Dr. Bruyette, just to see what his take would be on a dog with Molly's profile (+ACTHs, -LDDSs, adrenal tumor on ultrasound, lab abnormalities but no overt symptoms)? She is indeed such a puzzle, but he's seen so many Cushdogs through the years that maybe he's faced something similar. Just a thought...

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Hi Sharlene,

I don't see liver disease in those numbers. I see the classic pattern that we see in both typical and atypical cushing's. The ALT has gone up but it is still a tad less than a two fold increase. Albumin is low in dogs with primary liver disease and Molly's is a tiny bit high, which is not a concern. I think starting treatment for atypical cushing's is a great idea and I also agree with Marianne that you might consider adding a maintenance dose of Lysodren. Liver biopsies are not benign and I personally would not consent to one based on the results you posted. That's my two cents worth.

[Harley PoMMom]

I, too, think that adding the melatonin and lignans would be a good plan, though it can take up to 6 months for improvements to be seen with this treatment. So if this were me, I would begin the melatonin/lignans and in 6 months retest the liver values and if no improvement is seen than I would consider adding a maintenance dose of Lysodren.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Thank you all so much.

I agree and my IMS agrees that the liver biopsy isn't benign and her concern is the cortisol being high when it would be done and possibly bleeding, so they won't do that unless something shows on the ultrasound that is indicative that there is a specific problem with the liver itself. Thank you for that addition Glynda!

Marianne, the reason the IMS didn't go with lysodren maintenance dose right now is that she is wary of using lysodren in a dog with no symptoms. Even atypical you usually have symptoms and molly just doesn't. Specifically with the not eating all her food all the time and lack of drinking water. All things that she would expect to see and she says this makes it difficult even with maintenance dosage of lysodren. It could become an option though if the lignan and melatonin don't do anything.

She said that even in a dog who say has pituitary cushings and tests negative on the LDDS, she wouldn't expect it to be consistently negative as molly's has been. She thinks that is very strange for a cushing dog. I don't know myself, I mentioned that there is that 5% who test negative and she said, yes, but they normally Do have symptoms and because medication is started follow up LDDS usually isn't done, you switch to the ACTH. That for it just consistently through years be negative is what is strange. Hence, we seem to never get that positive diagnosis of cushings. I went back through every test and found the very first LDDS was done in 2010. This makes 4 years now *sigh* perplexing to me anyway.

So, I ordered the S Adenosyl 100, as I want to get that sam-e involved in her liver and I'm switching her over to Dasequin with MSM for joint support.

I just now after all day of looking have Finally found a place to order HMR lignans which seems to have better results than the flax hulls and melatonin.
It just seems to be impossible to find in Canada, but this place does have a canadian outlet to get it direct from, so I plan to get that ordered tonight and get her started, as soon as they all come in.

I appreciate the feedback. We'll retest the UPC in a couple weeks. She'll be having a follow up ultrasound at some point, in the next couple months. (postponing a bit to wait and see if these options make a difference in both her liver values and what we see on the ultrasound, but they need time to work)

I'm glad you don't think it is liver disease, but a result of the high cortisol, which while that isn't good either, is at least more treatable I hope.

I wonder, if it is possible that molly does have pituitary cushings. If so why no symptoms and why does she suppress on the LDDS all this time. We wouldn't have even thought of treating her if she hadn't had that ACTH because I didn't fast her once and then the ultrasound thanks you guys. It is just all baffling and blows my mind after all the years I've been living breathing cushings now on the forum. So weird.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[flynnandian]

your molly's liver values etc. really are a riddle to everone i guess.
weird that she has no symptoms and is doing so well considering.
well she must be special i think! wonder molly!

[Budsters Mom]

There is no doubt that our Molly is special! ;) They broke the mold when Miss Muffin emerged and that's a great thing! :D We wouldn't want her any other way! :p:):D

[molly muffin]

That is the truth Kathy, I think our pups have the most unique and wonderful personalities.

So, HMR Lignans 20mg and melatonin 3mg have been ordered from Lignans For Life.

hugs all, thanks for the help
Sharlene and molly muffin

[addy]

Hey Sharlene,

I'm sorry there is no clear cut path for you and Molly. I can imagine you are worried about what steps to take for our special little girl. I think I agree with Lori, see what the melatonin and lignans accomplish first;they do take a good three months. I would think four years in to this, we would see some more common symptoms, not just a profile in her blood work. Actually, I was just reading an excerpt from Dr. Peterson's blog about just that. I hope I book marked it so I can find it again for you.

I also agree with Glynda about nixing the liver biopsy. I said no to Zoe's.

I think you and Molly chilling this week is a well deserved and much needed break for the two of you. Enjoy it!!!!

Big hugs

http://animalendocrine.blogspot.com/2013/09/working-up-asymptomatic-dog-for.html

found it- you probably already read it:)

[jrepac]

Wow...reading back on these posts and very much a puzzle. Still, I wouldn't give lysodren if no serious symptoms are present. Lignans and Melatonin are worth a shot. Lignans capsules can be ordered online and are easier to give than flax seed....I used to put flax seed in yogurt and my dog loved it.

Jeff and the Girls

[mcdavis]

One thing to remember with the S-Adenosyl 100 if it's the same one I used is that is does contain 20mg of milk thistle so if you are also using the Hepato Support you need to check what the maximum dose should be for Molly.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Sharlene-sounds like a bit of a rough patch for you now. It takes me back to working with Palmer....how much information needs to be gathered, how much stuff needs to be done and how, in the end, you still can't get concrete answers as to eactly what you're dealing with. Four years is a pretty long time, I think, to be dealing with this. I was overwhelmed by the details and issues this disease poses.

Did you get to see icebergs with their blue light look? When we went to Alaska, we went about a month too early and not much thawing had begun. I think it's the thawing that produces that gorgeous blue light. A friend went and got lots of great pictures.

Hugs to you and Molly.

Susan

[beaglemom3]

Hi Sharlene, Sorry you do not have a clear cut diagnosis I am useless when it comes to these tests, sorry. The only values I know a little about are the ALT and ALP due to my boys pancreatitis..I might be saying something stupid here but could that mean pancreatitis for Molly?

[molly muffin]

Her pancrease values are all normal, so I think that is okay.

The HMR lignans and the melatonin arrived today, That was fast, thank you very much Lignans For Life! She has had her first dose of lignans already, she gets one pill a day and she'll have her first melatonin at around 8pm tonight, since they say to give it every 12 hours. I'm wondering if I should start her at 1.5mg melatonin or right at 3mg to start with? She's never had it so not sure how sensitive she might be to it. The tablets can be split, to 1.5mg since I ordered the 3mg and they are scored.

No I won't get the S-Adenosyl 100 And the Heppato Support both, I will only give one of them and since the S-Adenosyl 100 has everything, we'll go with that. It is Very hard to find in Canada though and I might end up having to go with the liver support supplement and then plain S-Adenosyl if it becomes to difficult to get. I paid a fortune, twice what you can get it in the states for, through amazon.ca.

Yep, we saw icebergs. Quite awesome.

Hubby has now uploaded his photos, so I'll go through tonight and post the link.

Hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Newfoundland pictures link:

http://s199.photobucket.com/user/Shar-photos/library/Newfoundland%202014

http://s199.photobucket.com/user/Shar-photos/library/Newfoundland%202014/From%20Daniel

There is even an extra "cowgirl" bonus pic at the end of Daniels folder.

Enjoy for those of you who wanted to see the pics.

P.S. let me know if there are any problems with the links, don't do this very often.

Hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

I appreciate your checking in Jeff, as your journey with Mandy was one of the threads I read through when my IMS suggested the lignans and melatonin.
Mandy was sure a sweetheart and spunky. Loved that.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

Alrighty Miss Muffin, let the lignans and melatonin do their work!! Hoping all goes well with the new regime Sharlene. Very hopeful this is going to do the trick :)

Your links are fine, some great photos in there. Love the wee icebergs and the whales.... looked quite cold there, lots of fog in some too. And aren't you just the cutest little cowgirl!!! Loved looking through them :D

[kaibosmom]

Maybe I'll have to put links of Kaibo pictures since I can't post them :( hope the new plan works for Molly.

[molly muffin]

Try photobucket Nikki. It works well and you can make albums public, private completely or password protected. Whatever you want.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trish]

You notice anything with the new meds?? Hopefully you both had a good sleep!! x

[flynnandian]

links work fine for me.
beautiful pics, rough nature.
i use photobucket too, very easy to work with.

[Tina]

Hi Sharlene,
Your pictures are great! That looks like a beautiful place. I love the icebergs, and of course the whales. Looks like you guys had a great time, I hope you got some relaxation in. :)

How is Molly doing since starting the melatonin and lignans? Hope she's tolerating everything okay. As far as the liver supplement, it sounds like you're going with the S-adenosyl 100? I don't think that has milk thistle in it, does it? I was thinking that it just contains the SAMe only, but not sure. Jasper takes Denamarin, but I'm thinking you said that wasn't available in Canada, right?

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[molly muffin]

So far okay. That lignan pill is really big capsule though. Not sure if I will be able to trick her for long into taking it. The melatonin is easy She does get sleepy on it though I noticed. The s-andenosyl 100 does have milk thistle in it. The just s-andenosyl doesn't. This wasn't available in canada either. Found one place to order it on amazon.ca.

It was a good vacation. Much relaxation was had. Lol.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[labblab]

Hey Sharlene, you can double-check with the Lignans for Life people directly, but per their blurb on Amazon, the flaxseed capsules can be opened and the powder taken out (presumably to be spread on food?). If you can also do that with the HMR lignans, it might be an easier way to dose Molly.

http://www.amazon.com/Lignans-For-Life-Flaxseed-capsules/dp/B007D681K0

Edited to add: this what their own website says about the HMR capsules.


There are 90 capsules of our HMR lignans in each bottle and each capsule contains 40 mg of HMR Lignan. These HMR lignans are good for people or pets. You can separate the capsule in half just by pulling it apart to get two smaller 20 mg capsules.

[Bailey's Mom]

Molly I really enjoyed your pictures. When we went to Alaska, we did not see that gorgeous blue color to the icebergs. We did see a school of about 30 whales as we moved back toward Canada. It's just beautiful up there. The color in your pictures is fantastic. I loved the ones where the penguins are on the side of the mountain, each one seeming to have his own little cave. What were the white dots all over the water? Was that chunks of smaller icebergs?

Thanks for sharing!
Love,
Sus

[molly muffin]

Those are Puffins Susan! Aren't they so cute. That little island is their nesting ground.

There are some white caps from the water is some pictures, tons of birds all over the place and then in some of the pictures, there are multiple icebergs.

It was pretty amazing to see.

Hope things are going well. Did you get Bailey into the vet for the allergies?

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[addy]

Finally had a chance to see your vaca pixes:):) What a wonderful trip!!!!!:):):):):):):)

The birds were totally cool, the ice bergs, the mist and fog, everything looked great!!! Just a lovely trip.

How is Molly? Has she adjusted to the melatonin?

[molly muffin]

She gets sleepy about 1/2 an hour or so after she takes it. Stays a bit sleepy, not lethargic, just sleepy for a couple hours maybe, maybe less, then back to miss perky.

Yea it was a pretty neat place to see. The people are some of the nicest I have ever met anywhere. Every single one, even the panhandlers where nice and would help you, give you directions, ask how your day was, it was pretty great and that was without asking for money. I think every 2nd person knows how to play a musical instrument. Music is a huge party of the Newfoundlander or Newfie's life.


hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Do we have anything on the HMR lignans lowering cortisol. I've been reading about the HSD enzyme and U of Tenn, says it effectively lowers cortisol. (21-hydroxylase enzyme)


Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Lignan made from Flax seed hulls?

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/Steroid%20Profiles%20for%20Diagnosis%20of%20Atypic al%20Cushing's.pdf

[molly muffin]

Yes that but I went with the HMR lignans. Better absorption. Less digestive issues.

I saw that one since we are on the u of tenn regimen of treatment following the testing. What would be fabulous is if there was a study on it since I didn't actually expect that cortisol would be lowered only the higher sex hormones. I guess that Tennessee wouldn't have said it could lower cortisol though if it couldn't. Interesting. I saw it though on the lignans for life website and am looking for other info to back it up.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trish]

Hi Sharlene, wow its the end of the week already, goes so fast!! One minute I am cursing its only Monday and then whiz its Friday!! I hope you have had a good one and Molly has tolerated her new meds with no hiccups!! Catch you over the weekend sometime, its late and my bed is calling! xx

[Woodydog]

Me too hope Molly had a good week and hasn't been too sleepy on the meds.

Hope you had a good week at work and got in plenty of snuggle time with Molly :D

[molly muffin]

Molly is doing good on her pills. The sleepy doesn't last very long and I think she is adjusting to it very well.

Great weather here. I will be doing some gardening here coming up as yes you guessed it... Big party coming up first of sept at our house. Hubby said he is getting a one man band. I am gob smacked at the ideas he comes up with. Rofl.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Yay Molly! :D

[addy]

I'm so glad Molly is adjusting to the meds. As for the party- we all want to come to one of your parties!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I had to stop gardening because of these huge mosquitos. They say it is a different breed this year from all the constant rain. At least Koko's Furfume seems to help when we walk but not sure it will help in the garden.

I cant wait to hear the menu for the party!!!

[molly muffin]

There seems to be some discord on the menu, with the social committee thinking mexican, picked up from a local chain restaurant and set out on tables, with the hubster thinking he wants someone serving and is thinking a bbq catering place, they bring it all to where you are.
This is the work summer party for staff, so since we are a small office here in Toronto, should be around 50 or so people.
Molly will go to the kennel that morning, as she doesn't do well with parties and that many unknown people. She'd stress and likely take a chunk out of someone if they touched her without an invite. So, best for her to go stay there and I'll pick her up the next morning.

She is doing pretty well, but it does take a while to know if this will work or won't work on her.

Oh man those big mosquitoes do not sound that great. I don't think I've seen any huge ones up here, but we sure do have the smaller ones around. I've tried to find anything with standing water on our proper and eradicate it, but they might be coming from the neighbors rain barrel area, where they collect the rain water for the garden. We siphon our rain water collection or extra from drip lines through hose directly into the garden, so there shouldn't be any standing.

well off to the garden center soonish. I used a different center for 3 patio containers this year and I'll never do that again. Each one is straggly while the ones from my normal garden centers look great and I don't need to replace them.
Molly will likely help out as soon as she wakes up from her snooze.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

I hope the lignans and melatonin do the trick for Molly and you start to see some improvement in those numbers in a couple more months. I'm glad she's adjusting to the melatonin ok....most pups seem to do so fairly quickly.

As for the menu, I vote lobster. :p

[addy]

The Mexican restaurant near my office makes to die for Spinach soup. It is a clear broth with wilted spinach and packs a kick that knocks you around the block!!!! LOVE IT. add in some pulled beef tostadas ---YUMMY GOOD- I vote for Mexican- :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

50 people at the pool is a hefty number:):):):):) I can understand Molly not wanting to deal with that. Kudos to you for handling that many people at your house. I don't think could do it anymore. I used to love the commotion!!

I found a new hotel to take Koko too. Hubby is calling tomorrow to see if a room is available. He can't go into the restaurant, but we can order room service and eat dinner on the balcony:

http://www.grandgeneva.com/

[molly muffin]

oh yum, no lobster and the spinach soup would probably be very good!

I'm letting the gang in charge of food argue it out. My only critieria is that they don't leave a mess for me to clean up, or they'll be looking for new digs for the next party.

We've had that size of party for the last 3 years for one reason or another it seems. I always take molly to the kennel for an over night on those days.

Little miss is currently laying on her rug and periodiacally attacking it, then rolling over on her back and grooving is the only way to describe it. She seems to be feeling pretty perky these days, in fact I'd say most of the time when she isn't napping, so that is very good and I'm glad to see it. She has always had her trouble making days, where she just is a typical molly but then she'd have off days too. Right now she seems to be having more perky than off, although that just might be a normal cycle.
We're staying on the positive though, as that is what I find helps us both the most. If I am positive and playful with her, she responds to that pretty well.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Hi all,
Molly is still doing well. I started her on Dasuquin for her joints today. She was taking Cosuquin but thought I'd give this one a shot. They actually seem to be doing okay. She'll jump on the couch, absolutely will run if you try to pick her up and She doesn't want it, but she doesn't want to go upstairs at night. She jumps up 2 steps, stops on the landing before the long one and puts her foot up waiting for her Lift. Oh she'll go if she absolutely Has to, but her preference is a carry up. She's funny, some things she wants to do herself and some things she doesn't.

She makes it very hard though to determine if there is any kind of muscle wastage when she has the hip on one side and the knee on the other, a back that we have to always keep an eye on and cortisol and sex hormone issues. Hoping the lignans (HDR) and melatonin will help with at least one of those and then depending on what the next ACTH shows, we might add in one of the other cushing meds, but she has to be on this for a steady time to see what the results will end up being.

Good times, eh. :) It's cool here, it was sweltering early this week, with bad humidity and very warm, and now today the wind turned and it cooled right down so I needed a jacket to go outside. Molly of course was prancing around as she loves that summer cool weather. (who doesn't, duh) :)

hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

So glad that Miss Muffin continues to do well. :p It is hard to determine if there is actually a problem or they just want us to do something for them. They are sneaky little buggers and we fall for their tricks every time.;)But..... We love them to death! :D xxxxx

[kaibosmom]

Good to hear Molly is doing well and is perky! So nice. Keep it up Molly!

[addy]

Is it party weekend?:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I cant even believe it is August 1:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( I hope you have used your pool more than we have- try 3 times for us:rolleyes::rolleyes:

How is Miss Molly? Give her kisses on the head from me. Koko says woof.

[Trish]

Spinach soup??? :cool: I will have to take your word on that being tasty as it does not sound it to me LOL :D I will take the lobster mmmmmm! I remember when Mum and Dad had a pool and no one was swimming much and Dad complaining that with the cost of the upkeep it was about 50 bucks per swim :D:D The pool got filled in not long after that!!

Hope Molly still doing just fine on all the new meds! xxxx

[molly muffin]

Nope not party weekend yet. It got moved to 7 sept to accommodate some who would be away at cottages until then.

We do have a 3 day weekend though. Whhhh. Hoooo.

Yep we are using the pool fairly regularly. Hubs swims around 3 mornings during the week and I try to get I. Once work is done. Weekends of course as long as it isn't raining. Molly monitors.

Can't believe how long it took to get the s-adnoysol here but it finally arrived so will be adding that for liver support. It has both the Sam-e and milk thistle. What is hard is giving an hour before or after a meal. Impossible on office days for the morning. Can you give in the afternoon evening? Have to figure that one out.

She is doing well on the meds. Active still so that is good. It feels like she is heavier with all the pills and they have to be a treat wrapped or she won't take them. Maybe it is my imagination. Wonder if I can get her to sit on our home scales. At the vets office she goes right to the scale and sits down to get her weigh in as soon as we get there. Sometimes they aren't even ready and look up and Molly is sitting on the scale patiently waiting for them to be ready.

With soups it is all about the seasoning and even spinach can be made good and I am not a huge spinach fan unless in salads. Then I love it. With strawberries and walnuts and goat cheese. Yum.

Mission this weekend is to clear hubby's closet. Molly always helps. Usually by pouncing on stuff and digging in. Should be an adventure.

Hugs all
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[mcdavis]

I'm pleased to hear that Molly is doing well. I always gave Hamish his s-Adenosyl around 5pm, then he would have dinner around 6-6:30.
Wow - Molly is a total star about getting weighed. Sometimes the vet techs had to get on holding both Hamish and Henry because Hamish would refuse to stand still whilst Henry pretends to be scared (I think we made a mistake in holding him!!).

[apollo6]

Glad to hear Molly doing fine. It is always a joy when things are going well.
Sonja and Angel Apollo

[Trish]

Woweee its a Molly Muffin Marathon!! :D:D:D Good Job Sharlene! :):):)

I always seem to wake up about 6 for a pit stop (me not Flynn :D) so I give him his Samilyn then and then back to bed before the alarm goes off at 7 and then give his brekky so he has a real empty tummy then, he gets it with a wee bite of his food to get it down, which is OK according to the instructions and vet. He wouldn't take it on its own. I do weigh him on home scales if I have not been to the vet in a while, sounds like they all do the same thing, in the door and straight onto the scales :D He does not like it much as our home one is glass and he has a phobia about tiles, lino and any shiny surfaces... so lucky I have a carpeted house as he would be on tenterhooks on polished hardwood floors! But he will sit there if I carry him in and plonk him on them. xx

[molly muffin]

Note to self, consider plonking style on scales.

Maybe I spoke too soon. Molly skipped the whole closet adventure and slept through it. She also didn't move when I was outside with a friend and her dog earlier this morning. She didn't even come to check things out and Maggie, Mollys buddy the westie, was crying loudly for molly. She acted fine on her walk at 3:30, which I took her on and then gave her the first liver pill. She'll have dinner then at 5:00, but for now, she is behind my chair having another snooze. Hubby said maybe she is having an off day, it happens. So, maybe we'll see.

Mornings. I am hard to get up in the mornings for work and molly usually gets up after me. I get dressed and have coffee and then walkies for molly and breakfast as soon as we come in, 15 minutes later I'm out the door.

We'll see how this works. Maybe I could do it After dinner in the evenings and before the dental or melatonin. It does get complicated doesn't it.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

Hate it when they do the whole up and down thing for no good reason, but they do have "off" days just like us don't they! Perk up Molly!

I don't think the after dinner would work as it has to be on empty stomach?? Well Flynn's does! :)

[molly muffin]

True they do have their off days. Maybe it was the melatonin just made her uninterested today. Hard to say, but she did make an effort to bat down the toy rabbit I threw in the air for her, so that is good.

Yes, it says an hour before meals. So, I gave at 3:30 and planning dinner for her today at 5pm. hmm, I'll have to think of something else though that is sustainable for during the week too. Maybe when I first get home from work and then dinner an hour later would work, like MC did. or hour and a half latter.

hugs,

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Let's hope she's just tired and needs a little break. They certainly can be worrisome.:o

Yes Sharlene, it's get challenging with so many meds. Add SEB to that and it becomes a planning nightmare! :eek: It's dosed 3 X per day, two hours before of after any other meds. Thank goodness you aren't doing that too! ;)

[flynnandian]

molly was asleep whilst you were posting on all our threads.
no time for molly left.........

p.s. this was post 600 for me!

[molly muffin]

Again iam outside and a neighbour stops by and Molly didn't do her charge to the window to see what is up and tell the world she is there. Very much not like her. Hope it is an off day.

Congratulations on post 600 iris!!!

There were plenty of opportunities for her to have play and family time today but she just wasn't all that interested. Actually not at all. Just wanted to sleep.

Sigh. Off day. Just an off day. Tomorrow will be better. You know she did take a tumble when she missed a step running this morning. Maybe she tweaked her leg or back. No limping and I massaged right away but between the knee and hip who knows. She had her breakfast but quiet every since then.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[flynnandian]

hope molly will be her old self after a good night sleep!

[Woodydog]

How is miss Molly today, hoping that it was just an off day yesterday and she is back to letting the neighbours she is there :D

[molly muffin]

I think it was an off day yesterday. She seemed fine this morning and last night, she had this spurt of energy with her toy bunny, ran in and pounced on it, (first move that fast all day long) and played a bit with hubby on the floor then walked away from him and her toy and went to take a nap. Go figure, just left them both laying on the floor.

She was good on her walk this morning so taking that as a positive sign. I think she is a bit more lazy over all on the melatonin so maybe it is that, although I thought she had adjusted to it, so not sure.
Her poops are fine, good even, and as that is usually one of the first signs if something is going off in her, I'll just hope this is nothing.

You know how she always sucks her tail before bed and cleans her paws of course. She hasn't been tail sucking since starting the lignans and melatonin. She does still clean her paws, but then a girl must have some standards. I wonder if the tail sucking was anxiety related behavior and the melatonin might be helping with that. Just something I noticed when brushing her tail yesterday. I didn't have to try and clear out saliva induced knots. This is a behavior she has had since she was less than a year old.

She is back to snoozing now, but that is to be expected after breakfast. :) I'll update at the end of the day and let you know how she is acting.

hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Woodydog]

Good news on Molly. Em it may well have been an anxiety thing with the tail sucking but yes a girls must have clean feet and nails :D

[Budsters Mom]

Very encouraging news on our Miss Muffin. Leaving the boys high and dry, sounds just about her style. ;)

That sucking tail observation is interesting.:confused:
Hugs,

[molly muffin]

Hi all,

So now I am going to try the sam-e meds at night before she goes to bed. It's just not working trying to find that time during the day or morning.

Molly is getting so many pills now all wrapped with wet food around them to cover up the pill that molly now thinks she is getting a treat every time a pill bottle rattles. I think she is putting on weight as she is getting all these 'treats' all the time now.

You know I thought that she had adjusted fine to the melatonine, but I think the lack of energy with her is after she has had her melatonine pill and then it takes awhile to wear off, hours and during that time she is just less than interested in anything going around her. I notice that after about 7 hours or 8, she seems to perk up a bit. I don't know, maybe it's my imagination, but she just doesn't seem her normal perky self since starting the melatonine. I'm doing 3mg morning, 3mg night. That is the only change I can think of that would be affecting her, unless it is something internal. Since she perks up a bit in the late afternoon I'm thinking it's the melatonine.

Well, we are going to have a wedding in our family too. Step daughter just got engaged while on their European trip. She sent a text from Morocco, and is very happy.

It's going to be a busy few weeks coming up, as we have a bbq/pool party in 2 weeks, then we have grandson and his mom home for the next weekend, then the company big party at hour house (which by the way, hubby has told me he has hired a band for!! That man knows how to throw a party!) I still have to get the food stuff organized for that, since the social committee isn't really doing it and our caterer is away until next week so we'll see what happens then. I think the mexican is out and beats me what is in, waiting on the proposals to be sent next week.

Today was a non day, as I woke up with a major headache, so bad my vision was all blurry trying to do work this morning. As soon as I could I took a sinus pill and headed for the couch to lay down for a bit, and then back to work but I've felt sort of fuzzy all afternoon now. Anti histamines Always do that to me. Make me feel loopy.

I'll have to get it in gear though, no time for headaches and being out of commission. I seem to have appointments all over my calendar for this that and the other these days. So, if I miss any of your threads, I'm sorry and really things will calm down at some point I'm sure. I'll try to keep up though!!

hugs to all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Oh no Sharlene, headaches will not do. I have enough migraines for the both of us!:o I hope you are feeling better now.

Maybe 3 mg twice a day of melatonin is too much? She is only a little dog. I take melatonin occasionally when I'm really keyed up at bedtime and have to go to work the next day. I only take 5 mg myself and it knocks me on my butt. Just thinking.:confused:

You are the party girl aren't you? What fun! I love to live vicariously through you.;):D xxxxx

[molly muffin]

hmm, I went with the dosage as given on the university of tenn site for atypical cushings and <30lbs. I did see someone else say their dog about the same weight maybe a tad more than molly is on 1.5mg am/pm. Maybe i should try splitting the pill? they say you need to give every 12 hours basically.

LOL My headaches are generally sinus/barometric pressure, weather related, but they can be doozies. My mom got migraines and those are just horrendously bad. Mine was pretty bad today but I don't think it even comes close to what those with migraines go through.

We do have our moments it's true. Some times it's very quiet and our most energetic activity is to get dressed on the weekend. Then others, it is just stuff going on constantly.
I like it as long as I get quiet time in between. I don't get very happy if too much is going on that affects molly though and these some of them at least will, she'll have to go the kennel so she doesn't over stress with too many people in the house and I don't like that. In fact, I cancelled a jaunt up to Ottawa for the weekend of the 16th because I couldn't stand to put molly in a kennel that often with the other things coming up and that is how I ended up saying, lets have some peeps over for a bbq here instead. These are molly people, so she will be fine with them. They are her buds too. She'll only have to go in if the stepdaughters insist on a kids party at our house while grandson is here, then I'd put in while that is going on, but if it doesn't happen then she'll be at home with all of us. She is fine with our grandson, but not with a bunch of kids running around being all crazy and playing having fun, she'd get way too worked up and I'd have to watch her every minute for her not to nip anyone or get stepped on or something.

Gads, I'm stressing just thinking about it! I don't know how other people do it and maintain calm and organization and safety.
lol
Sharlene and molly muffin

[kaibosmom]

I'm thinking I'd like to go to a party at your house! Band. Caterers. You mean business. Lol. No more headaches! Have fun planning. Glad you found my Instagram. I posted you tube videos so you can see little man there too! Take care. Glad to hear Molly is enjoying her "treats".

[Budsters Mom]

My gut feeling tells me that Molly is getting too much melatonin if she's that out of it. I would personally try splitting the pill for a while and see if she is more alert. Hopefully others will pop in with their thoughts on this. There maybe a medical reason for the higher dosage.

I don't know how you keep up with your social calendar!:eek::eek:
xxxxx

[spdd]

Ok all.... I will make out the list of all of us who will be at Sharlene's LOL-then designate who brings what !! :D Bathing suits mandatory!!;)

Sharlene... hope you get Molly straightened out. Don't these pups of our keep us busy. I know there is nothing I can do now at all without making sure Keesh is involved. Have fun at all your social events. I'm hoping I can start just becoming more social once the headache of this house is out of the way. Never freakin worked so hard in all my life. I'm physically destroyed I think. Keesh gets his bum stitches out today.. (oh joy) and he continues to hang in there.

[Squirt's Mom]

If you are trying to control the intermediates, UTK recommends 3mg 2x/day for a dog Molly's size. That is what Squirt started at then ended up taking 12mg 2x/day (per her IMS) before we stopped all meds. When I started these back, it was at 3mg 2x/day planning to build back up but we never did. She did fine with the melatonin after the initial adjustment period. Since UTK has done the research on this, I never thought to question the 3mg dose - I simply gave it believing it would help with her hormones, and it did. If it were me, I think I would contact UTK and see what they think - if they will talk with you. Since Dr. Oliver passed, they aren't as willing to interact with the "public" as he was but you never know. But if other pups have had a hard time adjusting surely they know this and can direct you a bit. Hopefully. ;)

Since the Mexican seems to be out, don't forget about the lobster! :D You could serve them on tostitos for a blended cuisine. :p

[addy]

When I started Zoe on melatonin, I started her on 1mg twice a day for a few weeks, then slowly increased to 2mgs, for a week or two until we were at the 3mg mark. It made her a bit tired but she was not out of it.

Party! Party! Can I come early?:p:p:D:D:D:D

I had that same dang headache sinus stuff Tuesday, could not go to work and it is still lingering. Feel better, it is no fun.

Happy Friday!

[molly muffin]

Oh maybe I should have built up to the 3 like you did. She just shows no interest in anything but sleeping till after she has had it in her system for awhile. It's so weird. I thought she had adapted but maybe I was wrong. Sigh. Kids! She doesn't care to be in her window seat even. Ignores when someone stops by and we are outside talking even if there are dogs with them. This is not how Molly behaves even when she is sick.

My hubby had the headache this morning but mine is better. I felt bad for him since he had to go to the office. I just merged him and he said it is better now. So that is good.

Come early stay late. Works for me every time. LOL

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Woodydog]

I have a solution for you and Molly, I,ll fly over and do a bit of dog sitting for you while you party best of both worlds you get a stress free party life and I get Molly cuddles ..... Simples :D I can give you references if that helps lol

[Trish]

Awwww so sorry to hear you are under the weather Sharlene, hope Friday and the weekend gives your and hubs the chance to chill out and relax with Molly. BTW what did you do to hubby to "merge" him?? :eek::D

I bet it is the melatonin making Molly a bit snoozy. is it a pill you can safetly split or a capsule? I agree might be worth trialling a lower dose.

If Tracy and Addy are coming, I am too!!! Be such fun!!

[molly muffin]

When the melatonine wore off today she ran around like a wild thing with tons of energy. So I am guessing that is what is going on. Other difference is I gave her the Sam-e before bed instead of in the morning or mid day man it is hard to figure this stuff out.

Rofl. Message i meant. Hehehe. I was like what Is she talking about! You know me and the autocorrect thing. It is a disaster.

Now have been informed we have some Chinese Canadian art dance tv show gala thing to go to this Sunday. Totally mystified of what that is or what one wears to such a thing. It certainly isn't dull around here this month.

Off to fix dinner.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I was afraid to ask how you "merged" him. Lol :D:D:D

Glad that Molly is doing better today!:)

[mcdavis]

Sorry to hear that you too are under the weather. I hope you and hubby are feeling better soon, and he recovers from being 'merged'.

My hubby is currently jet-lagged after a long weekend trip to the UK to see family and pick up some new skates for me - he's been doing well, but I think he decided that once the weekend started he could relax / recover. I'm still not sure Henry actually noticed he was gone, although he was incredibly pleased to see him when he returned (hmmmm - maybe it was more the doggy chocs!).

I used to have reminders in my calendar for every pill Hamish took, and I tracked everything on spreadsheets and make notes of any changes. I know, I'm strange, but it was incredibly helpful in identifying the effects of the different meds, and organising the vets, etc. I miss doing that - I'd give anything to still have him around :(

[molly muffin]

Headaches are better. It is just sinus headaches caused by this cold/hot/cold/hot, wet weather that has been our non existent summer this year. Both hubby and I get them but usually more in the spring and fall when the weather patterns change and the barometric pressure goes up and down. We'll live! Thanks for the concern all. :)

Oh nice, he went and picked up some new skates for you while on his visiting trip. Now that is a good guy to have around. LOL Wow, though, a fast in and out to the UK is a doozy. I had mentioned going to Paris for a long weekend at some point and hubby was like, no way, not for that long of a flight, might has well stay at least a week if you are flying that long. So, kudos to your guy for going for it!

I know MC. We miss them so much when they aren't around. These furbabies with their medical issues are just such a huge presence in our lives that when they are no longer in it, it leaves a hole a mile wide that is hard to fill.

So, I am hoping that switching the sam-e 100 to night time will work and perhaps it will negate any interaction with the melatonin, which I really don't think there should be at all, but that was the only thing I had introduced in addition, which might have caused her to act more sleepy, not feeling great attitude. I know yesterday as soon as that melatonin started to wear off, right around 3:30 in the afternoon, it was like she had another gear in her body that went into on position. She ran, and ran and played and jumped and was having a great time. She was still going pretty good by the time came to give her the night time melatonin. I haven't seen that in a few days.

Here is the other thing I noticed in the last couple days. She is jumping well, legs working, don't see as much shaking and I think I can attribute that to the dasiquin she has been on, but that one step to the front door, she has been a bit hestitant coming up to it and twice she has misjudged the distance of the jump. Like she walks up to it and then jumps up the step. She use to fly over it. It doesn't seem to be an issue with her legs/joints, but maybe one of sight? Just wondering about that. I had her eyes checked and they said she had "older dogs" eyes in that they aren't as clear as they use to be, but that was all that was mentioned. She is only 11 1/2 years old (if it was true she was 11 months when we got her from the rescue) It is very weird because she'll spot a dog down the street from the window seat and see very well. So, wonder if it is things closer or why that would be. Do dogs get near/far sighted? I've never heard of it as in humans. She has always been freaky at night with shadows, etc. But that I put down to their black and white vision and how things look at night vs day time to an animal maybe. Wow, I'm just rambling on. I'm sure there is a logical reason for this thing and it's only been going on for about a week, so maybe it's nothing.

okay, back to regular scheduled programming! hahahah Hubs is having a guys night with his BFF who recently lost his dad. I think that will be really good for him. We all miss his dad, he was a heck of a person, so intelligent and kind. Flags flew at half mast at the University, the Canada aerospace program and NASA when he passed.

Here is an intereresting tidbit. We all know the movie Apollo 13 movie and how they showed the astronaut left behind solving the problem of how to disengage the module and have enough oxygen for the ones in space to survive and make reentry. That isn't exactly how that happened. Nasa, contacted my friends dad here in toronto, and him and a team of 6 from the space engineering department worked on that, figured it out and sent it to NASA. He said he thought at the time there were many teams working on the problem and then found out afterwards that no, it was only their team. He said he might not have been able to do it if he had known that going in. He still has/had a photograph that they had taken from that trip and all of them signed. He also worked on the design for the current space station canada arm that is used on the international space station and a whole host of other things, like satellite patents, etc. So like I said an interesting person and one that also leaves a big hole in all the lives of those who knew him. Just thought that was an interesting tidbit and not one that is widely known.

Here are two links from obits in local papers, if anyone is interested, I know it's not cushings related, it is just one of those things interesting and a part of my daily life stuff:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/04/bernard_etkin_who_mentored_generations_and_helped_ rescue_astronauts_dead_at_96.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/bernard-etkin-helped-avert-apollo-13-tragedy/article19735265/#dashboard/follows/

Back to daily activities now. Molly is having her morning snooze. :)

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[mcdavis]

Pleased to hear you are feeling better today.

So sorry to hear about the passing of your hubby's friend's dad - he sounded like a great guy and will be very much missed.

I'm definitely not an expert on dog's eyesight, but one thing we noticed with Hamish was that sometimes wouldn't see something which was right under his nose (but would find it by sniffing), yet he could see something that was really far away, and we've seen the same occasionally with Henry. I remember reading somewhere that sporting dogs are usually far sighted, allowing them to spot prey, so I assume it's possible for other dogs to be near sighted, just like humans.

Hubby got lots of brownie points for getting the skates - I organised it all from here by tracing my feet, calling the store, etc. but it was worth it because I saved around 40%. I had to get them after the two foot injuries earlier this year :(

[beaglemom3]

When the melatonine wore off today she ran around like a wild thing with tons of energy. So I am guessing that is what is going on. Other difference is I gave her the Sam-e before bed instead of in the morning or mid day man it is hard to figure this stuff out.

Rofl. Message i meant. Hehehe. I was like what Is she talking about! You know me and the autocorrect thing. It is a disaster.

Now have been informed we have some Chinese Canadian art dance tv show gala thing to go to this Sunday. Totally mystified of what that is or what one wears to such a thing. It certainly isn't dull around here this month.

Off to fix dinner.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

I am happy to hear you found the cause of Mollys apathy. and great to hear how she was acting like her adorable self again! I hope you are feeling better as well! My sympathies on your loss :(
HUGS from Me Snugs & Branny

[Trish]

Wow what a legacy your friend's Dad has left for the world, his family must be very proud of him Sharlene. Still never easy losing anyone so my condolences to them and to your family too.

So pleased Molly is doing good, you know Flynn can happily trot up steps but the one into the house he is notoriously slow at getting in, dunno what is up with that either. Sometimes he boings over, others lifts up one leg at a time, when that happens I think his arthritis is bothering him. He has the cloudy eyes too, but we got the same answer as yours 'old dog eyes'. One test Mike showed me was to throw a cotton ball close to the face across line of vision, not hitting her and see if she reacts. So an easy one to do!

Haha on the daily activities, Flynn is copying Molly from a few hours back and is having his daily snooze too. It is the most gorgeous blue sky, with no breeze but a real heavy frost. So once it warms up I think we are in for a stunner! I quite like frosts now I know they get rid of fleas!! :D:D xx

[molly muffin]

So, I did my own test to see if it was the melatonin causing the change in her and it is. I skipped an evening dose, the next morning I gave 1.5mg and then in the evening 1.5 mg of melatonin and she was her normal self all day long, playing, snoozing periodically, but in general energetic most of the day like normal and back to the window seat.

I didn't stay there, I went back to the 3 mg x2 the next day but it does confirm that it is the melatonine making her out of it and just wanting to sleep and not be interested in anything around her.

I still have to check the eyes, so I'll try that cotton ball thing.

Tonight, I am hoping she is able to sleep through the storms we are suppose to have. You know how it is, if they are up all night scared, then the humans are darn well going to be up to. :) I think Jo Ann blew her storms up this way. LOL

hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Hmmmmm.....So it was the melatonin. Did you go back to the 3mg. hoping she'll eventually adjust?

Yes, with all that Melatonin, Molly should sleep clear through those storms. ;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Good job, Mom! I hope Molly adjusts to the dose soon!

[Harley PoMMom]

I agree, Good job!!! Harley was petrified of thunderstorms, but when he started taking the melatonin his fear went away and he could sleep right through them, hope Molly experiences the same.

[molly muffin]

Yes I went back to the 3mg because that is recommended dosage if treating solely atypical cushings and IMS wants to see how she does on this. So, back we went.

Well, yes and no, she had a case of the nerves, but we weren't having thunder, just really torrential, hard rain at times, so up on the bed she came between hubs and me and we all went to sleep. Until her fur touched hubby, who came wide awake like a mad man and molly and I woke up to. I was like what on earth!!! So, I guess he'd been dreaming that fur wasn't a good interjection into dreamland. ROFL!! Anyway, molly had enough at that point and started to pant and I put her down to get water and she did and off she went to her own bed and we all went back to bed.

Not bad, I do think she was better on than off.

Does melatonine build up in the body? I'm curious that I thought she had a adjusted and then back to the lethargic state, then when off, back to normal.

hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[addy]

I'm not sure. I know I had a pharmacist look it up because it bothered Zoe's eyes after awhile. She would be ok with a dose at bed time but after 3 nights, her eyes would get red so I could only give it to her 3 times a week.

[Trish]

Oh dear, that made me laugh. What a shock for poor hubs, then waking up like that.. probably took ages for all your heart rates to slow back down. Poor Molly having to go back to her own bed for peace LOL, that is cute though!

I did a quick google of the melatonin, it has a short half life of under an hour and total body clearance in 10 hours, that was in humans but I also read it was similar in dogs. Hope that helps xxx

[molly muffin]

hmm, so maybe not a build up, it just makes her sleepy. Okay, well, we can deal with that.

Today we have mucus poops this evening. Hopefully some pro-biotic will clear this up. Not really sure what caused it, nothing off that I can see.

Will see how tomorrow looks. Sometimes she just is off, as we all know from the years on this thread.

It's been crazy busy lately, with so much going on every weekend. Yesterday just to keep things interesting we had a van explode into flames a couple houses down from us and blocked off the street with police and fire services. Cutest little guy, about 4 years old though, dressed up as a fireman (his halloween costume) and charmed each and every police and fire man that was here. They all took pictures of him and with him. He was a happy little guy. :)

Hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
I have been meaning to ask how Molly's been doing on the Melatonin..so it seems to be making her a little lethargic?
Those mucous poops!! :mad: Trixie had the same a couple days ago. Gave me the stare down around 1pm...a time she never goes out. I ignored her at first but she made me pay attention and take her out-- there it was. Not as bad as Trixie sometimes has but it was a not a good poop that's for sure. Luckily I have the metronidazole tabs and I give her half when this starts up...works right away thankfully.
Anyway that van that caught on fire sounds scary! Glad no one was hurt in your neighborhood. :)
Trying to catch up on the board..I've missed being here. My eyes are getting heavy so I guess I'll have to try to read more tomorrow. :p

[beaglemom3]

aww I hope Molly's poop goes back to normal quickly. Is she adjusting to the melatonin yet? I hope so!

[addy]

I may not be remembering correctly:o:o:o:o I thought melatonin made Glynda's Lulu lethargic and tired too.,

I hope poop patrol is over:):):):):)

[molly muffin]

Well, a bit of probiotic and some fiber and poops back to normal. :) yay!

Splitting headache tonight, we've been out since we got off work, looking for a lost little shih tzu. Didn't have any luck finding him, but I did get a positive confirmation that he was in the area we were looking in yesterday morning. We still have searchers out tonight so crossing fingers he is found. His foster mom is out there, little guy was adopted and immediately escaped from the adoptive family. I'm so irritated as they aren't even out looking for him. :( The rest of us, along with our local humane society (whom he was fostered and adopted through) though are looking.

I have to wait an hour to give molly her sam-e and she won't be getting her melatonin tonight as our schedules are all off, since hubby and I were both out on the search. I'll be taking some headache med and then heading to bed as soon as I can give molly her meds.

hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Hey Sharlene, did they find the little guy?

[molly muffin]

Well yes and no. About midnight I got a text that they has located the muddy little black dog and rescued him, but it was not the one we were looking for but yet another.

Isn't that awfully sad to think that there are several little black and white dogs (shih tzu's and they are so small :( )running around scared. This little guy will be taken in, cleaned up, an appeal put out by the humane society for owners to come forward, and he will be put into foster. Either he will be returned to owners or adopted out.

I spoke with the guy who tried to catch him for an hour sunday morning. The dog was on it's driveway, very scared and skittish, but seemed to be familiar with people, looking for his people maybe, and not willing to let any others touch him. The girl (the foster mom of the dog who is missing) is who found him and she is very good with animals and was able to get him, so on that note I'm very happy, but I hate to think of gizmo still missing. Nothing new today and he has been missing since last wednesday, so a bit nerve wrecked here. The foster mom has been out every day from early morning till late at night, door canvasing the areas, putting up posters, whatever can be done.

The adopted family will Not be getting him back if he is found. They didn't place him in a secure area and keep watch on him till he settled in and then they have not joined in looking for him once he went missing. I am beyond furious at them.

Thanks for asking
Sharlene and molly muffin

[beaglemom3]

So glad Mollys poop are good now YAY wish mine were LOL been having a stomach virus since Friday :(
Poor scared lost babies I hope you find em.
But glad you found the other and now he is safe and will be well taken care of. WHAT is wrong with some people! I will never understand them.

[mcdavis]

Pleased to hear that Miss Molly's poops are back to normal, but what terrible news about that poor little dog. I can't believe that the adoptive family weren't out looking for him - at least they won't get him back if he is found, and hopefully they won't be getting any other dog either.
I really hope they manage to find him - I can't remember where I read it but I remember hearing of a dog that was lost somewhere in Southern Ontario, and it was reunited with it's owner after 10 days - despite a lot of sightings near major highways it appeared to be totally unscathed.

[molly muffin]

They certainly won't be getting any from the local humane society, but there are plenty of rescues and they don't all check with each other.

He ran into a wooded area behind a mall and that is where the coyotes were seen, so there is some concern as to his safety. So far no news.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Okay, so today was a busy day at our house, with duct cleaning, carpets, rugs, tile/grout, so I booked molly in for her physical exam today. She is having a urinalysis, upc, liver enzymes check and had her kennel cough shot.
I am hoping to be able to call and get results tomorrow from my vet, as she is leaving for a week and won't be back till 2 Sept.

Molly's eyes are the problem. We checked the records and in June, her eyes were clear and age appropriate, in other words really good for an 11 year old, clear and shiny. 2 months later and my vet said she was astounded that both molly's eyes are now cloudy and there is no cataracts, or other eye issue to be the cause. She asked me to go over what has changed in the 2 months, all that has happened is we started lignans, melatonin and sam-e 100. We are both very concerned, as she said it looks like what she might see in a 13 - 14 year old dog, like they had aged rapidly in 2 months.

What the heck do I do now? This explains why in the last two months, she stopped being in the window as much, barks when my husband comes home instead of recognizing him, wait for me to walk up that step to the front door before she does, etc. All this in 2 months. In fact I mentioned the step and the window seat on here.

I am stopping all of these things I am giving her right now and going back to the other liver support I was using. She said we could try to take her off and see if she is perhaps having some sort of reaction to any of these, which is one possibility. My concern is the cortisol of course. I'll see what the results of these tests show and hope for the best in that regard. What I want to do I think, is get her started on 10mg of vetroyl pretty soon, but my vet wants a repeat ultrasound to see what is going on with that tumor on the adrenal too.

I'm worried and nervous of course, as we all are as we deal with these issues. I don't care at this point what the LDDS shows, we just need to get that cortisol down as soon as and safely as possible in my opinion, no matter what is causing it.

I don't do so good when there is a molly problem it seems. :(

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[labblab]

Sharlene, I am so sorry! Do you think there would be value in letting an ophthalmologist perform an in-depth eye assessment so as to try to identify more precisely the nature/source of the problem? For many reasons, I know you are anxious to jump on this sooner rather than later in order to best preserve Molly's vision. FWIW, here's an article I found re: eye problems that can be associated with endocrinological illnesses. :o

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110512180444/diabetesindogs/images/c/ce/PV_29_12_733.pdf

Sending many hugs your way.

[addy]

Oh Sharelene, I think Marianne has a good suggestion. I get so worried about eyes; an ophthalmologist can tell so much more after a thorough assessment. Look what I went through with Zoe's eyes.

[molly muffin]

I pretty much quoted exactly what the vet told me today about her eyes and her thoughts on it.

Hopefully the results will come in tomorrow and I will get them and be able to ask my vet for a consult to the eye doctor. I also plan to call the IMS Monday. I'm away at an appt tomorrow from 12:00 to 5pm, but will leave my phone on, and I'll call before I leave if I haven't heard anything.

One way or another and I'll have to try to arrange something with work. I've already put in for my days off through end of september and it is going to be tricky with the new section I'm in to get approved time off, I will have to be firm. I want eye doctor consult and a chat with IMS and ultrasound. That is what I think we need and then I want to see if we can move to say the 10mg of vetroyl. I hope I haven't caused this by not treating, but afraid I have. She still has no symptoms of cushings, other than this now, in fact she has lost a pound, but that might be the weight management food I moved her to, in search of getting some firm poops. Her urine remains concentrated. Gawd, I just don't know what to do for her that is the best thing. I worry too that what if I do start on her vetroyl and she doesn't have cushings, then what will I do to her, (that has been a constant worry with the negative LDDS tests)

Hopefully we'll know a bit more about her liver and kidneys tomorrow. As kidney problems can also cause eye problems.

Thanks for the article Marianne, very informative.

hugs and thanks
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Oh I forgot, she is also not eating anything tonight but her soft food. She picked all the hard kibble out, put it in her mouth, started to chew and spit it out on the rug. *sigh* Maybe the kennel cough shot?

It's not been a primo day on the molly front that is for sure.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

And she makes a liar out of me, by going to eat some kibble, then wanting to go for a walk. Go figure. Then she wanted her joint treat and was good to go.

She'll get a liver treat later but I don't think I'll give her any more of either lignans, melatonin or sam-e until we get this eye thing figured out. I don't know what do you guys think about that? I've never heard of Any of those causing eye problems, but molly has been so weird that I don't know anything any more, other than the general do and don't's of cushings.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[addy]

I dont know what to think but I dont think it is from the melatonin or lignans except that the melatonin seemed to bother Zoe's bad eyes. Her eyes would get redder from it after being on it for awhile, I could not give it to her every night. I even had a dog pharmacist look it up in his drug book. He could not find anything that indicated to could affect her eyes but it did.

I don't see how it could make them cloudy though. Something else has to be going on. Sharlene, is the melatonin still making her so tired?

All I can tell you is with the numerous eye issues Zoe had, her ophthalmologist felt I need to keep her cortisol controlled.

[Harley PoMMom]

Gosh, Sharlene, I am so sorry to hear about our dear Molly's eye issue :( I do so wish that I have some words of wisdom for you. :( However I can lend some loving moral support and will be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[labblab]

I dunno whether this has anything to do with anything, but here's an article about possible effects of melatonin on the human retina:

http://www.landesbioscience.com/pdf/Pandi_Wiechmann.pdf

Marianne

[Dixie'sMom]

Sharlene, I'm sorry to hear that Molly is having eye issues. I did have to grin a bit tho when she made a liar out of you. Ya just never know what to expect from the little devil/angels.

As someone with a very rare eye disease (1 in 1.4 MILLION), I have learned more about human eye conditions that anyone could ever want to know. I would imagine there are some parallels with canine eye issues. Steroids oral or drops cause cataracts to progress rapidly, but the vet said it wasn't cataracts. There is another condition called vitritis which is a clouding of the vitreous fluid in the eye itself. It is caused by inflammation. The treatment for that is immunosupression and .... wait for it.... steroids. *sigh* There are other types of inflammation in the eyes called different things depending on where it is located in the eye itself. Your regular vet would not be able to see any of those without special equipment, so an ophthalmologist consult is a good idea. There are anti-inflammatory drops (nonsteroidal which do and could help tremendously. This is NOT necessarily a PERMANENT thing. It is possibly just an episodic flare due to an unknown cause. And I already realize that with the Cushing's team on it, y'all will damn sure figure out that cause before too much longer. Hugs and Love to you and Molly girl.

Suzie

[Squirt's Mom]

Aw sweetie, I am so sorry this has cropped up. Our Molly Moo has certainly been a puzzle from day one, huh? Squirt's eyes clouded and started turning bluish but the vet said that was typical old age eyes. I forgot what he called it but it has to do with the fluids in the eye as the pup ages. But it didn't come on overnight like Molly's did - hers was a gradual progression and she still had vision when she passed. Her iris' were brown but in the right light you could see a blue film over the whole orb. And they did get cloudy.

I hope you find the cause...and I would sure see the specialist if possible before making any treatment decisions, including treating for Cushing's.

I wonder...do they have good vets in Switzerland? ;)

[molly muffin]

LOL Leslie!

I know, I have concerns about the cushings drugs if not cushings too.

Molly had age appropriate eyes, so you know, an 11 year old, not as bright as they were but still sprakly and her eyesight was good. My vet loves molly's eyes and it's one of those things that people always comment on, how pretty. She was checked over pretty thoroughly by the IMS and eyes were fine then too. SARDS would be almost overnight right? Or could it be gradual like a couple months?

I told hubby last night, if this progresses we'll need to look at options for safety with her. One of the worse will be she won't be able to go to the backyard off leash, as I'd fear her falling into the pool. She would hate that. I hope it doesn't, but this is not a good sign.

Here we are years later and no one has been able to determine where the high cortisol is coming from and now it looks like, it is causing all kinds of problems. We've had 2 IMS. It could be cushings, it might not be cushings, she doesn't look or act like a cushings and her urine is quite concentrate, no over eating, hair/skin fine, pot belly is all and high liver enzymes which we all know have been high way before anyone suggested cushings option and not as high as we have seen even.

I'm flipping out I think because we are no further along than we have been, I don't think, and now we have serious issues due to not finding the source and having a plan.

ARgggghhhhh
hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Marianne! I just saw your post about the melatonin given during the day and I was giving first thing in the morning. I wonder if this is possible cause, as the test subjects were animals and they displayed death of photocells in the retina.
So no more melatonin during the day at all, as it appears that there is a possibility that on some subjects, light plus melatonin could be detrimental, while at night it would be beneficial.
The question now is whether with discontinuation if this is the cause, whether you would have any regeneration or is this permanent damage.

(this based on the timing alone I think we have to consider)

Thanks again Marrianne! How the heck do you find these things! I was scouring the internet all the time yesterday for some link between any of the 3 factors and eye problems.

HUGS
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Spoke with vet and Alkp came down. ALT and GGT raised. Primary concern liver disease. Eyes hoping damage not permanent. Unknown. Expect to consult with IMS and redo ultrasound and see eye specialist.

Good news is UPC normal!!!

Will post more later this was just a prelim art call to tell me what is going on before she leaves on vacation tonight out of country

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[mcdavis]

Oh Sharlene - I just saw your posts. Poor Molly Muffin :(
I can't help with the melatonin and lignans but I didn't notice any change to Hamish's eyes with the SAMe and he took them for around 6 months. I also researched it quite a bit before I gave it to him and don't remember any references to eye issues.

HUGS from Henry and me

[molly muffin]

I don't think the sam-e contributed to eye problem. In fact it is likely that the sam-e contributed to the ALKP coming down from 1100 to 899, almost 200 points. However, ALKP is not necessarily liver specific as much as the others are. As we have said on here many times, but also as told to me today by my vet.

The ALT went from 225 to 319, which is a big increase. This can increase due to cushings (high cortisol causing leakage, or from bile duct flow)

The GGT went from 12 to 16. Also an increase in a liver specific enzyme, often associated with bile duct flow. So I'll want that gall bladder to be looked at as it could be that there is now more sludge and she needs to be on medication for it.

It is possible that the melatonin given during the day contributed to the eye problem, but I think it is an unknown at this point, only a possibility and we'll need to see what the specialist say. In the mean time I am not giving her any more right now.

On the other hand, the UPC was normal, which makes 2 normal in a row, if we throw out the one that they are almost 100% sure went bad in transport. So that is good.

Her urine specific gravity is perfect at 1.025, so kidneys appear to be working.

I don't have the lab results in hand, as she gave me these over the phone before she caught a flight out of country tonight. Knowing I was being a bit freaky about wanting these results asap. She said copies are already made in molly's file, so I can go pick those up this week.

I've confirmed that I will be able to take a day off work to take molly for her tests, so I'm not worried about that really at this point.

The vet actually didn't think there was loss of vision, but I said I thought there was, since she doesn't currently recognize my husband or instance when he drives up and gets out of the car in the driveway, she will bark at him, even if he is outside the window. She has always known it was him and not barked at him, so there has to be something there along with the weird step activity going up at the front door and the not wanting to be in the window seat looking out so much.

I want to see if that changes at all without the melatonin in her system. I thought even one day had made a difference previously when I didn't give it to her because I was thinking she seemed to be so lethargic from it and that is all I thought it was. Well, maybe that isn't all there was to it.

There are so many things I don't know and I'm just trying to figure it all out as best I can.

Hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[labblab]

Hey Sharlene, I don't know how I stumbled across that article but I agree it is interesting. However, I'm doubtful that the melatonin is the likely culprit re: the eye changes even though the article did make me think that it is probably better to give melatonin at night, anyway, just so as to better correspond with the body's normal circadian rhythm. I had never thought about that before, but may try to mention that to other members in the future.

I can easily imagine the toll this uncertainty about things is taking on you and your husband. But please remember that hindsight is always 20/20, as I know only too well :o. Molly has truly been a diagnostic puzzle every step of the way, and you have done your very best to seek the consultation and provide the care that has seemed safest and most reasonable for her. So I truly hope you will be kind to yourselves no matter what the sources for these problems turn out to be.

Sending you all hugs and my hopes that some clear answers will soon be found!

[molly muffin]

I did find this study on rats and melatonin

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377032/


The results of this study confirm and extend previous reports that melatonin increases the susceptibility of photoreceptors to light-induced cell death in non-pigmented rats. It further suggests that during the dark period, melatonin administration alone (i.e., no HII exposure) to pigmented male rats may have a toxic effect on retinal cells. These results suggest that dietary melatonin, in combination with a brief exposure to high intensity illumination, induces cellular disruption in a small number of photoreceptors. Chronic exposure to natural or artificial light and simultaneous intake of melatonin may potentially contribute to a significant loss of photoreceptor cells in the aging retina.

Ugh, wouldn't we have heard more about this as many use the University of Tennesee protocol?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

That's what I've been wondering - surely UTK would know about this?

[Trixie]

Hi Sharlene,
I'm sorry to read about all you're going thru right now. I can imagine how this is weighing on you and causing distress.

I did find this paragraph on melatonin...this states that it's actually "good" for the eyes..safeguarding against cataracts and other eye afflictions. http://www.drugs.com/npp/melatonin.html (scroll down to ocular diseases)
Also I read the excerpt about the retinal cells in rats that your posts but the clouding would be on the cornea or the lens wouldn't it, not having as much to do with the retina?


Do you notice that her eyes look cloudy, can you see a difference? Has she seemed at all bothered or trying to scratch? Hoping an eye specialist will get to the bottom of this.
I know how worried you must be...hopefully you worries will be put to rest once you can get into that eye specialist.
Sending the positive energy your way!!
Barbara

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Sharlene....

I just caught up to date with Molly and I am sorry to hear your news. I truly understand your frustration at no diagnosis and at having to consider lots and lots of potential issues as problems. That really got to me when we were treating Palmer. I just didn't get why someone could not offer something specific. This was after I switched vets. I'd been asking about cushings for 1.5 years and kept getting told "No." The pot belly was our main indicator. It seems to be ridiculous that "we" are the ones who spend so much time and effort in figuring out all of the Cushings issues and trying so hard to find the correct treatment. Starting Vetoryl is nothing to be taken lightly, as I am sure you know.

I don't have any helpful advice. I can only offer my support to you and say that I agree with the "consult the eye doc for an exam" before making other changes. Peaches, our first dog, had eye sight problems in her later years. I had to tell her "it's just me" before I would pick her up....and she had to be carried up and down stairs at that time. We went away for Thanksgiving one year to spend it with one of Bob's cousins. They left the door to the basement open and Peaches took a bad tumble down the stairs, because she did not know they were there, since it was a strange house to her. (I still think it's a strange house......:rolleyes::rolleyes::D)

I guess I do have one piece of advice. Bob's Dad was blind, when Bob and I started dating. I learned from being around him that it was important to kind of announce who you were and what you were doing so you didn't startle him. You might want to keep that in mind when you are moving around with Molly around. When your husband comes home, maybe you could say "Dad's home!" to announce his arrival. I also wonder if it could be that her eyes are sensitive to light now and that is contributing to her not being in the window as much. The brightness may cause her discomfort.

Your response to this news is pure loving Mom behavior. It's so frustrating, I think, when things go wrong and our little ones just adapt and we don't know that there are problems until later. I so wish they could talk....:(

Huge hug coming your way and please give Molly a kiss for me.

-Susan

[addy]

Hi Sharlene,

Just stopping by to give you and Molly girl hugs:):):):):):)

[molly muffin]

Thanks gals.

We'll figure this out, hopefully because if nothing else we have dogged stubbornness on our side. :)

I didn't really notice that the eyes where cloudy. I don't know how I missed it, I mean, I guess because I look at them every day. Now I can say, they probably have a bit of cloudiness towards the back, but it doesn't look as bad as some I've seen.
I've noticed that I do have to tell her daddy's home, or that she will jump like she is startled but I thought that was hearing not eyesight. *sigh*

On Wed I hope to get over to the vets to pick up the copies of her lab reports. So I can add them into her test history and then call the IMS to get the appointment. I need to give work my time off schedule for the rest of the year, so I want to get that in. I am holding an ace in my hand of some banked time that I can use without notice if need be. :) (always have that ace up your sleeve) Today was too busy I didn't get out of the office till after 5pm, just nonstop.

On Wednesday night our oldest and grandson get into town for the long weekend, so it will be very busy from that point on, and I would love to have things taken care of by then, a date for ultrasound and eyes.

We had our youngest daughters engagement dinner last night. That was fun. My god, where did these two organized young people come from!!! They just got back from Portugal and getting engaged and they have already decided on the date, the reception venue, the wedding location. She has an appt to try on wedding gowns tomorrow night, knows the dresses she wants for her bridesmaids, how many and who they will be. Has settled the menu (my god I'll have to diet for a year just to be able to deal with all the food they are having). Except I don't have a year, I have about 7 months. They also have their guest list and plan on keeping the numbers down which is nice. Wow, like I said, who ARE they??!@!!!

Molly got lots of belly rubs, she had seen the kids for 3 whole weeks after all and she was grooving to it.

I am talking to her, trying not to startle her too much and we'll just take it day by day. I thought her eyes looked a bit more sparkly today. I'm not doing the melatonin and lignans until I know more. If there is even a chance, then I won't take it. I am doing the sam-e as I think that helps the liver numbers. We'll just see what happens. Not much else I can do till we know more.

hugs all,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[beaglemom3]

Hi Sharlene, Poor Molly and you! I am sorry to hear about this new development with sweet Molly's eyes. I hope you find the cause quickly and it is reversible. Keeping Molly in my thoughts and prayers. HUGS! to you both.

[molly muffin]

Finally able to corral Molly long enough to clip her bangs and hair around her nose so eyes can be seen really well. Definitely both are a bit cloudy compared to what they were. She hates hair trims and being brushed. Every cut tickles her nose and we have to wait for her to rub her paws over the area then do the next bit. Then she rubs again. If she doesn't rub the tickle away she will sneeze. It is quite the production.

Too bad she can't take the eye test like we do. Do you see better on 1 or 2. Again. Then. I am sorry to say you are going to need glasses miss Molly. Guess they don't of that for dogs though

Don't worry. I have all our steps blocked off with gates. She hates to be carried down steps though and will try to evade you to go down on her own. Very independent unless she doesn't feel good is our little muffin. A contest of wills around here


Hugs all
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[doxiesrock912]

Sharlene,
could it be cataracts?

[Budsters Mom]

I thought that cataracts were slow to progress. They don't come on suddenly, from what I've read. Molly's cloudiness in her eyes happened very quickly. I could be wrong though. :confused:

[molly muffin]

No it isn't cataracts. They checked that as soon as they noticed it.

It came over a 2 month period at least. Not really sure if quicker than that.

Sharlene.

[molly muffin]

Well it isn't optimal, but trying to schedule a date for both the eye specialist and the IMS to be there and me to take off, turned out to be a doozy. Turns out recheck ultrasounds are on Wed, Fridays and the eye specialist is only there, mon, tues, wed, thurs, so had to be a Wednesday for her to get into both. Then there was the IMS away on one of the Wed, booked up on the next Wed and I couldn't get off till Sept 8 due to conflicting schedules at work. So...long story, long :) 24 September at 9:15 she has her ultrasound recheck and 10am an consult with the dog ophthalmologist. So, we'll be there early.

I'm just going to hope nothing gets worse between now and then, it's a month away after all. :(

On another note, I will be in and out till after labor day, due to family being here, namely a grandson to be played with and who wants to go to the museum to see real dinosaur bones.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

I was hoping it would be sooner than that. :o

Now to burst your bubble Sharlene :D You are probably one of the coolest grandma's on earth, but you will never be as cool as a T Rex or an allosaurus. I know this sounds sexist, but it truly isn't.There is something about little boys and dinosaurs that is almost hormonal. I'm not talking about the wussy, boring plant eaters either. Everyone knows that their only purpose was to feed the bad (meaning cool) dinosaurs. Those were the most ferocious carnivores that can easily tear your head off with one bite. We know that there were no people when dinosaurs roamed the earth. However that fact gets lost in the minds of little boys. To them the more ferocious the better. So naturally, you would be going to look at the REAL dinosaur bones! lol :D

[molly muffin]

Oh I expect the trip to the museum will be VERY Cool thing and nana and grandpa are taking him. So whoo hooo. It'll be fun. His grandpa and him get on the phone and make competing dinosaur roars at each other, over facetime. It is quite hilarious.

On Monday we'll be taking him and our soon to be son in laws niece and nephew (if their dad lets them go, he can be a bit funny) over to Center Island in Lake Ontario, to the petting soon and the childrens park. I think he'll enjoy that too. A ferry ride and then fun times. My friend just went with her granddaughter and they had a blast.

Oh gosh, that reminds me that I need to confirm that we'll be going to her granddaughters 1st birthday party. It's out in the country at her son in laws parents place and should be a lot of fun.

I think my September is going to be child and dog filled. :)

hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

Fingers crossed no new problems until you get in, be interesting to hear what testing the ophthalmologist does. Sept is sounding busy, plans well underway for the wedding too!! Exciting times, now we want Molly to be good so you do not have to worry about her. I like how you mention with "dogged determinedness" you will figure it out. I have no doubt about that whatsoever, If I googled responsible, caring, knowledgeable pet owner there would be a picture of you Sharlene!! xxxx

[Trixie]

yes....fingers crossed Molly is status quo through September until you get to the appt. I think she will definitely cooperate! :p
Sounds like a lot of fun in store for the grandchild! The island in Lake Ontario sounds great and especially in September weather! He's going to have a great time! :D

Barbara

[molly muffin]

Oh I do hope she'll be okay till the appt. I am trying not to think about it and not to be upset that I couldn't get in sooner, because what good would it do me.

Oh dear grandson, had a long day and had a bit of a melt down when his mommy facetime to his daddy. He wanted to go home. Poor little tyke. I am sure he will settle down, he usually does, but it's rough on them, especially with dad not coming too. (he is working)

Molly is handling it all really well. So, proud of her for that. She did start sucking her tail and I told hubby I could give her melatonin, it should be safe, especially at night, and he said he didn't want her to have anything till after she sees the eye doctor. I see his point and i had the same thoughts. Waiting sucks though.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Bailey's Mom]

Just to let you know I'm up to date and you are in my thoughts, as is Molly.
Hugs,
Sus

[Woodydog]

Waiting sure does suck but remember we are all by your side waiting with you :)

[molly muffin]

That's true, it's like a whole room full of just waiting friends, hanging out. :) :)

hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Absolutely, no one waits alone!!! :p:p:p

[addy]

That is our mantra, always will be:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Trish]

That should be a song... no one waits alone... hmmm

[molly muffin]

hm, there probably is a song for that but beats me what it would be and I couldn't find it in any lyrics search. Drat! :)

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

There is a song called, "You never walk alone." We could change the lyrics to you never wait alone? Hmmm :p

[molly muffin]

Yea! That would work. Forum theme song.
Have we had a theme song before on the forum I wonder. Hmmmm

Brilliant Kathy.
Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Trish]

That's a pretty sad song, it is the theme song for a UK football club. The one where a whole lot of people were killed at the park when too many ppl were in there and they got trampled:( I think we need a happier song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DePFiF-nNoE

[molly muffin]

Oh no !! No can't do sad. We need hopeful happy inspirational. No sad

Sharlene

[Budsters Mom]

You must have the wrong song Trish. I'm thinking of the song that Jerry Lewis sings for MD telethon to give the children hope. I don't think it's a sad song. I think it's inspirational. Hmmm.

[Trish]

It's the same song... I just googled Jerry. I guess it is meant to be hopeful, but I think after that disaster it has just made me feel sad

[labblab]

How about "Stand By Me" ???????

We can all be each other's "darlings" !!! :) :p :D :) :p :D

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beneking/standbyme.html

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BTCfQ6Bb8QE

[Budsters Mom]

I love it. We should go with that! :D

[addy]

Stand By Me it is:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Dixie'sMom]

Y'all are a trip.

[Budsters Mom]

We take little bird walks to lighten up the tension now and then. ;)

[molly muffin]

hhehehe, good way to describe it Kathy. Stand By Me. Oh darlin, darlin, stand by me, won't you stand by me. la la la la la la la

Okay that was my levity for the evening. We've had quite the tragic evening. Our daughter who is here visiting with her son, got a call from her husband this evening, that their dog, Ringo had been hit up at the campground they were at. He was at the vets office with him, but it was pretty bad and they ended up euthanizing him. They had Ringo since he was 5 weeks old, he was 10 years now, a shepherd mix, just beautiful dog with a great personality. We are all upset obviously and he will be missed by many.

Then within the hour, my neighbor came over that he saw a squirrel in the swimming pool, one of the little red ones. He was hanging onto a pool noodle, quite exhausted with his head above water. My husband got the pool net out and pulled him out. He has survived, so that was our good thing after the very bad thing.

We are not telling our 2 1/2 year old grandson yet about Ringo. That was his buddy, whom he fed every morning. He wouldn't let anyone else do it, but would say, no mommy, my job. We think that it will be best for his mom and dad to sit down with him when they get home and tell him then in whatever way they think appropriate.

We had a good day before all this with a trip to the museum to see dinosaur bones which he loved. Major cool, along with his first subway ride too. He loved that too.

I thought the kids coming over for a pool party was out, because I'd suggested going to the island park instead, but now turns out we are going there tomorrow. The youngest daughter has invited another friend and their daughter so we'll have 4 kids here on monday when I didn't plan on having any and I'm stressed out as molly is not great with kids. She is perfect with our grandson, but not those she doesn't know. I'd already said, that I couldn't put molly in a kennel on monday because they are closed, and I have this just stressed out feeling because I know at least one of the little girls will not leave molly alone. Arrrggghhhhh I am really not sure what part of molly doesn't do good with kids they don't get. I do not want her to bite any of them if they mess with her. If they leave her alone, she will leave them alone. I might be over freaking the situation, but I don't have anywhere I can put her that is out of the way from the kids.

I'm sure we'll survive, but I am going to be a wreck until probably next wednesday.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Okay, another verse of Stand by Me first of all. ;)

So sorry to hear about sweet Ringo. 10 years old and have to cross over like that. :o I wouldn't tell your grandson. He's a baby, let him enjoy his visit for as long as possible.

Now saving the squirrel is a happy thing! :p

I get it regarding your kid visitors this weekend. Kids have a tendency to gravitate toward little dogs and not leave them alone. Molly needs her peace and space. Since she's been having issues, you want her to remain as calm as possible. Our fur baby children are just as important as human children. We can't help but worry.:o When Buddy was so ill my grand niece visited. The next thing I knew she is carrying him around hanging like a ragdoll. He would never snap or even growl. I about had a heart attack! :eek::eek::(:mad:

Now for another verse of Stand By Me. We will always stand by you Sharlene. xxxxoooo

[Dixie'sMom]

Oh NO! I'm so sorry about Ringo. That just breaks my heart for all of them. I'm happy the little squirrel made it tho. I wish you could have snapped a picture before your hubby got him out. I can just see the little fellow hanging on the noodle. And I sure understand about the kids. The ones that are at my house most often have learned what to do and what not to do, but when other little ones come in, they want to run and scream (in the house of course) and sorry... my dogs will bark and chase them. So I tell the parents, make them stop and my dogs will stop. I love kids but I'm not going to let them torment my dogs. It does tear your nerves up tho. Do you have an ativan? valium? shot of tequila to help calm your nerves? ha ha! Praying for your family and sweet grandson and praying you and Miss Molly Muffin get thru the holiday weekend as stress free as possible.

[doxiesrock912]

Oh Sharlene! Poor Ringo!
Best for mom and dad to handle telling your grandchild.

Smart squirrel, hanging onto that noodle!

[labblab]

Oh Sharlene, I am so sorry about Ringo. And I totally understand your worry about the pool party. Would there be any way to put up a big exercise pen for Molly to stay inside while the kids are there? That way she could stay in the same room or same general area as you all are if that would suit her better than being locked away, but there would be an actual physical barrier between her and the kids? Just desperately trying to think of something to help...

[mytil]

Oh I am heartsick reading about Ringo -- how incredibly horrible!!!

I would certainly cordon off any area for Molly enough so the kids know this is a Molly only zone. (I am a big advocate of this is my doggie's house/territory and you are the guest mentality). There are lots of pen ideas ---

Easy, fast and inexpensive is to use wooden stakes (tomato for example) and run string along it but I am not sure how big of an area you are thinking about.

Terry

[beaglemom3]

Sharlene, I am so sorry to hear about Ringo, how heart breaking :(
Hugs to Molly and you!

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Sharlene, I am so sorry to hear about Ringo. :( Please tell your family that your family here at K9C is sending our love and support. Your poor grandson. His first heartbreak. :(

[Trish]

Sharlene, such a sad day for you all. I know that wee grandson of yours will be bringing smiles, but breaks my heart knowing he is going to miss his mate Ringo so much. :( big hugs for you all xxx

[pansywags]

Oh, such sad news about Ringo. I'm very sorry.

Best of luck with the pool party, here's hoping it goes smoothly for both you and Molly. It always surprised me how many parents would let their kids make a beeline for my 50 lb dog (who would never in a million years have hurt a child, but most people who aren't familiar with boxers don't realize that) without even asking if it was OK.

[addy]

Sharlene I am so sorry to hear the news of Ringo. What a tragic accident. Super hugs.

Lhasa Apsos are funny that way. Zoe never wanted anyone messing with her either. Kate had so many pool parties here and as long as the kids ignored Zoe, she ignored them. But if one of them reached for her head- watch out for the snap that would come.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is hard to make sure the little ones leave Molly alone. I thought Marianne's idea of a play pen was good. I know it will all work out for you. Sorry if you are stressing.

love ya

[molly muffin]

The play pen is a good idea and I mentioned it to my husband already. The plan is to try it out and see how they do. If they leave her alone, it won't be a problem, but yes, she would be just like Zoe.

I want the kids to be able to have fun and a good time, but I don't want molly to be stressed out either. So, it has to be a balance. I'll judge it when they get her by how the adults act, if they tell them to leave her alone and if the kids follow that.

yes, he is going to be heartbroken when he goes home and Ringo isn't there for him to play with.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Woodydog]

I hope you figure out the pool party surely if you say to the parents then they will leave Molly alone but I know you will still be stressing over it. A few eventful days for you with squirrels and the sad passing of Ringo I hope you are still looking after yourself in the midst of all this as your no use if you get sick :D

[mcdavis]

Oh I just wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of Ringo. Your poor grandson and family.

[molly muffin]

I just wanted to pop in and say We Survived! I used the gate to block off the living room and the french doors closed to the dining room and kept her in there. I was going to let her out after a bit, but one of the kids was very scared of molly and ran from her crying, so of course molly thought this was a great game and gave chase, which scared her more, so I decided it was best if she stayed in there. We did eventually end up with the kids in the living room on the couch watching cartoons (exhausted from swimming) and molly and the little girl were both fine. Molly will ignore anyone who ignores her. But she really decided she wanted this girl to be her friend and kept gravitating towards her.

I think we will be working on plan for them to become adjusted to molly, after all these kids are joining our family with the marriage, so they might as well all become good friends now. :) Molly is very much a solid stone in the family foundation.

yippeee, still kicking it after a full day of fun in the sun!
hugs and thanks for the support everyone!
sharlene and molly muffin

[Dixie'sMom]

Sounds like you had a great day with the family! And is sounds like Molly and the kids did very well together. Molly will win that little girl over really soon I bet. :)

[Budsters Mom]

Thrilled it all went so well!:p How can you have so much energy after a full day in the sun?;):p

[mcdavis]

So pleased to hear it all went well.

Hamish was always very interested in anyone who ignored him - he just couldn't believe that could happen! It's probably the same with Miss Molly - she just can't understand why the little girl does adore her like we all do.

[Squirt's Mom]

Sounds like everyone had a good time and Molly may have made a new friend. Every dog needs a little girl, right? Well, ok, maybe not every dog but....

[beaglemom3]

What fun! Sounds like a great time was had by all including Molly!

[Trixie]

Glad all went well over the weekend...but so sorry to read about Ringo. What a heartbreak for the whole family. Glad you saved that little squirrel from drowning...poor little thing. Good karma coming your way for that good deed!

Barbara

[Trish]

Can't squirrels swim??

[Budsters Mom]

FYI - Squirrels are excellent swimmers. One could have trouble getting out of the pool due to the slick surface and die from exhaustion.

[Bailey's Mom]

I think you should have served the squirrel chips & dip!
I'm sorry about Ringo. That will be a tough one for the little boy to deal with.
Glad to hear you survived the pool party.
Hugs,
Susan

[Budsters Mom]

How is our little Muffin doing Sharlene? Does she still seem to be having trouble with her vision?

[molly muffin]

LOL Chip and dip Susan!

I think the squirrel panicked and didn't see the stairs maybe? He could easily have gotten out, instead he clung to that noodle till hubby fished him out with the pool net and then he scampered away. First time it's ever happened that we know of.

I don't know, what is her vision and what is my imagination at this point Kathy, so I'm just going to wait till we see the eye specialist and see what he says.

She is having a great time as usual and not having many quiet days it seems. Running and playing and bringing toys to be played with and dropping them at our feet, so she feels okay I think.

It's been very busy around here lately, with people in and out and things going on. This is my birthday weekend and we have a lot going on. Company party here tomorrow, etc. No lobster Leslie. We're going with a pretty traditional catered bbq style dinner, swimming if anyone wants and a band to play a couple sets. Molly will be at doggy day care over night so as not to stress her. She did after all just recover from having a 2 year old in the house with much banging and carrying on. She got a bit of stress diarrhea from that, which adding in more fiber food and some probiotic cleared up in 24 hours. But she really would freak at 40 people in the house.

Tonight we went out and then had friends over and she was loving it. She came to say good bye to everyone when they left and one of my friends went with me to take her for a walk when we first came back home and she was grooving seeing everyone. She does love the people she knows well.
A dog wants her pack around her after all. :)

Got to run!
hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHARLENE!!!:p:p:p:):):)

[molly muffin]

Thanks Kathy!!!

Gads. Got through the weekend alright and a bit exhausted. Molly did fine at her over night stay.

The cosmos must have decided we needed a bit more excitement though as hubby has now been diagnosed with double hernias. One on each side and that is taking my constant attention along with work and other things going on. Life eh. Never say it's boring. Lol.

Molly is having a high energy spike tonight. She is all over the place with her activity level so think we will need a good long walk tonight.

Hugs all
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

OWWWWWW!! Poor hubby! Double hernias. It makes me cringe just thinking about it.:o:o Sending healing energy to him and tons of patience to you. He's a guy, you're going to need it! lol

[Dixie'sMom]

☻/ღ˚ •。* ♥ ˚ ˚✰˚ ˛★* 。 ღ˛° 。* °♥ ˚ • ★ *˚ .ღ 。
Happy Belated Birthday
SHARLENE
with sprinkles on top!

☻/ღ˚ •。* ♥ ˚ ˚✰˚ ˛★* 。 ღ˛° 。* °♥ ˚ • ★ *˚ .ღ 。


Sorry I missed it. I'm glad you had a good weekend and Miss Molly is feeling good. So sorry about the hubby. I hope he isn't having too much pain and has a good surgeon lined up. Don't forget to take care of yourself a little too, ok? Sending hugs and prayers your way.

[labblab]

Oh Sharlene when it rains it pours. I am so sorry about the hernias, too! You both have had a lot on your plates this year, that's foe sure. :o

Please tell hubs he has a whole fan club here who is rooting for him, OK? (And of course for you, too!)

Marianne

[mcdavis]

(Belated) HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHARLENE

although very sorry to hear about your hubby. I hope it's not too painful for him.

[addy]

I missed your birthday, the party and double hernias:o:o:o:(:(

[molly muffin]

Thanks gang! Hubby is hanging in there. We're still waiting to hear from the surgeon as to when he can get in for surgery and if he will be accepted to the place we want to go. I hope so! It seems to be amazing place and people from all over the world come for hernia surgeries. Most from Canada and the US. The great thing is it is covered by Canada public health care, which is just amazing. He would be in the hospital for actually check in the day prior and then 3 days post op to work on recovery. That too is unheard of for hernia's.

Molly is doing just fine. I can't tell a difference in her eyes, but hope the specialist will be able to tell me whats going on. Cross fingers.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

Still nothing on a surgery date for hubby. He seems to be moving around Much better though now so that is good. One of the biggest issues is the stiff neck that he has from holding himself in specific positions.

The eye doctor called yesterday and moved molly's appts to the 23rd Sept, (only one day but I'll take it) so I'm happy about that. Wish it had moved up even more. I hope that this person got it all correct as it was a doozy arranging everything for one day when I made the appt, and moving it seemed a bit tricky to get the IMS and the ultrasound in, but she says this works, so I hope she is right.

I might call today to confirm. It does work better for us to do this sooner than later though, as this is right at the time when molly is going to the kennel to stay while we are away, right after this whole thing.

I'm not going to speculate about what her sight is or isn't currently as I just don't know.

It's raining and cold here today and molly had to go outside in the rain for her morning walk. She is not impressed. Even after being toweled off and fed her breakfast she seems to have decided that the rain is mine and my husbands fault. She is curled up on her blanket in a chair and refuses to respond to either of us when we call her name. Just turns her head away. Believe me, she was running around, having a good time and totally engaged prior to getting wet. She hate the blow dryer or I'd turn that on her. LOL If it I had to describe it in one word, I'd say she is disgusted. LOL

Heading out for the day. Will check back in later.
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Dixie'sMom]

Well Sharlene, I hope by the time you get home Molly will not be mad and you and hubby anymore. I can relate. My Buttons pouts like that when something doesn't go her way. She will lay staring at a blank wall rather than face me when she is mad. haha! Little diva's, they are. I'm glad Molly's apt. is only 10 days away now. Hopefully she and the hubby will get better really soon so you can relax. Winter is coming.

[molly muffin]

oh lord! I'm in Canada, I do not want to even Think about winter yet!!! Our last one was quite horrid!

Yep, we came home and molly was completely over being miffed at us. (she was also by then dry which might have had a great deal to do with her improved mood) :) :)

It's funny, my cat Tipsy, use to when we had been away, come running to the door when we'd come home, (this is like being away over night or something like that) and then would very pointedly turn his back, walk away and sit down, with his tail just going in irritation. Just to let us know he might be very happy to see us now, but he was not pleased we had been away that long at all. Sometimes he'd not be able to help himself and would look back over his shoulder to make sure we were acknowledging his irritation. What a hoot and wonderful cat he was. It never lasted long, just enough to make his point, then he was a love bug again, in his aloof I'm so superior to you puny humans way.

Molly Usually can't contain herself long enough to make a point. LOL She currently has plenty of food in her bowl, but is bugging me incessantly to give her a treat. She could care less about her kibble, it's all about the yummy treat for her liver, treat for her joints and she can't Wait till it's time for them. LOL

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trish]

That Molly is never backwards in coming forwards to let you know how she is feeling, no worry about guessing what that little Miss is thinking!! Wet paws indeed, what a mean mother she has making her go out in that!! Not long to wait now for the appointment, Yay! xx

[FemaleK9]

You're lucky all you got from Tipsy was attitude! The first time I left my Catherine for a weekend, I came home and found a turd on my bed. I picked it up with a tissue, went to the bathroom to flush it down the toilet and returned to my bedroom to find a fresh turd in the middle of my bed. Just in case I hadn't got the point the first time.

[molly muffin]

Oh my goodness! LOL I guess Catherine showed you eh. That is something our Nova would have done. She was much more onry when she was pissed off than Tipsy could have ever been. He wouldn't have thought of not using his litter box, where Nova would go right next to it outside of it, if it wasn't just so to her liking.

Good to see you roaming around on the forum. Like a mini adventure isn't it. Never know what thread you will find and what interesting conversation to pop into. :) :) I rather love that about the forum.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[mcdavis]

What's this - Miss Molly's thread on p3!!!

Henry and I wanted to wish Molly and you well with the tests later this week. We're keeping everything crossed for a pawsitive outcome.

How are things with hubby - any news on his surgery?

[Dixie'sMom]

Good luck tomorrow Sharlene and Molly! Be sure to let us know when you can what's going on.

[Budsters Mom]

I'll be in your back pocket Sharlene, so don't sit on me!:D

[Woodydog]

Good luck for today Miss Molly will be thinking if you both

[Tina]

Hi Sharlene,
Just popping in to let you know I am thinking of you and Molly and wishing you all the best for her appt and tests today. I will be thinking of you both all day and will check later for an update. All fingers and paws crossed here. :)

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper xo

[My sweet Ginger]

Me too. Hugs, Song.

[Trish]

Hi Sharlene!

All my very best wishes are travelling with you and Molly on your trip to the specialist today!

It will be my first thing to check when I get up tomorrow!! Drive safe :)

Trish xx

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm here, too! :) Let us know as soon as you can or we'll bug the phooey outta ya! :D