New Member - 14 year Huntaway (Jake has passed on)

[SJZ66]

I have a 14 year old male Huntaway who has some cushings symptoms, but also has symptoms of canine cognitive dysfunction, and heart disease. He has been treated for mild epilepsy for the last 5 years and is on a very low dose of Phenobarb.
His most obvious symptoms are increased drinking and urination (but not excessively), excessive hunger (totally obsessed with food), He also pants excessively when the air temperature is higher.
I am not having him tested for cushings at this stage. Blood tests showed no abnormalities in liver or kidney function. His urine is very dilute.
His exercise tollerance is good for his age. His coat is good with no sign of thinning, or bald spots. He has hardly put on any weight, even though I have been feeding him extra and more often during the day. He has always been very fit, active, and lean. He was a bit under weight and I've put 400gms on him over the last 3 weeks by feeding him quite a lot extra. He weighs 25kg.

The thing that we are struggling with the most is his changed sleeping pattern - he wakes up during the night needing a drink and food ! As a trial last night, since he seemed very hot in the house, I left him in the garage overnight and he slept for 8 hours. He wet himself which he hadnt been doing since he started waking during the night. I think now that his waking is because he is getting too hot, and then he feels anxious and/or unwell. Can someone advise if the panting with cushings is from overheating. I'm thinking it could be his heart that is causing that symptom.

I joined this group hoping to find out more about the symptoms Jake has, and try and understand how he is feeling and what I can do to help him.

[frijole]

Hi and welcome to a great source for info on cushings. So to be clear - your dog has NOT undergone testing for cushings so there is no confirmed diagnosis - you are suspecting cushings right?

We will ask a bunch of questions because that way we know enough to better help you so don't be alarmed :D

At the end of my post I am going to link you to introductory info on cushings disease which is very easy to understand. That said, it is not easy to diagnose as other diseases mimic it - same symptoms. To diagnose you really need to do a series of tests.

But since at this point you are gathering information I'll focus on that. As you'll read in the link, cushings is an endocrine disorder where the body overproduces cortisol. Most cushings cases are caused by a pituitary tumor (benign and very small) that sends signals from the brain to the adrenals telling them to produce cortisol when their body does not need cortisol.

High cortisol causes the symptoms you have described: thirst, hunger, urination, panting, restlessness at night. (think extreme adreneline rush) Do not withold water because the dogs need this water. The only cure is treatment with either lysodren or trilostane. (in the case of adrenal tumor cushings - removal of the tumor can cure cushings - yes there is more than one type of cushings)

That said, phenobarb does complicate things in that it interacts with these drugs.

You can elect to not treat cushings but understand that the heart problems could in fact be related to the cushings. Untreated cush dogs can die from organ failure (heart, liver) You mentioned that recent blood tests showed no problems with the liver. This is surprising because cush dogs almost always have elevated liver enzymes. It would be helpful if you could get copies of the last testing and post the results of anything that was abnormal.

Sorry to ramble.. glad you found us. Kim
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

[SJZ66]

Thanks so much for the quick response Kim. Yes, that is correct Jake has not undergone testing, I am suspecting cushings - the vet says it is a possibility.

Jake was, in his younger days, absolutely terrified of the vet (to a point where they have him listed as a fear aggressor) and while he is a lot better now we think it would be very stressful for him to undergo the testing required to get a diagnosis - also the difficulty to diagnose and the other issues he has going on it make it not something we are considering at this stage; not to say I won't have him tested. So, yes at the moment I am gathering info.

Questions are good, they help me learn too !

Interesting that elevated liver enzymes are typical because while I stated that his bloods showed nothing unusual the lab did indicate that the enzyme that would be affected by long term Pb treatment was up ever so slightly ..... maybe this is why the vet said cushings was a possibility. I will check with him and get more info on this, and get a copy of the results.

I took Jake to the vet about 6 weeks ago because he was wetting himself at night when he slept soundly. Otherwise, other than a few CCD symptoms he was fine. The drinking was only mildly increased at that point, he wasnt demanding food, and the panting was mild and not bothering him at all. He has gone from that to where he is now very quickly - with the sleeping being the main issue that is disrupting the whole household. Fingers crossed for another good night in the garage.

So, if he quite likely does have cushings why is his coat good and his weight light (I weighed him again today and his weight hasn't changed for a week, even though I have been shovelling food into him day and night). Also, he has no abdominal bloating, only some muscle wastage around the back end, and a bit around the temples. If anything, if I hadnt increased his food he surely would have lost a considerable amount of weight over the last 4 weeks.
He is actually a lot happier than all this makes him sound, and he still loves his daily walk.
I'll read that link that you sent now, but just wanted to respond to your questions first. Thanks again. Karen.

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me too.

It sounds as though the symptoms that made your vet mention Cushing's are only increased urination, drinking, food obsession and heavy panting/wanting to be cooler. But have you ruled out diabetes and thyroid conditions? These also have these same symptoms.

There is a very simple non stressful test - (it is in the great link Kim mentioned).

Urine Cortisol/Creatinine Ratio Test: Considered a screening test, this cannot diagnose Cushing's, but it can rule it out. A urine sample is examined for the relative amounts of cortisol versus a normally excreted protein metabolite, creatinine (the latter is used to control for the degree of dilution of the urine). The greater the ratio, the higher the cortisol level. High cortisol in urine is suggestive of high cortisol in the bloodstream. Many conditions other than Cushing's disease can cause false positives, so this test is not considered diagnostic. Nonetheless, if the cortisol/creatinine ratio is okay, the dog is not likely to be Cushingoid, so this is a good screening test.

Keep us posted for sure
Terry

PS - I have never heard of the Huntaway breed (just looked it up) - what great dogs! I am partial to the herding breeds anyway :)

[frijole]

Karen,

Interesting that these changes came on suddenly because cushings sort of creeps up over time and not quickly at all... often is unknown for years. Cush dogs almost always have the rounded tummy. But not all cush dogs have all symptoms - for example the hair loss. The muscle wasting I think comes on in dogs that have had it for a longer period of time and have not been treated.

I agree with Terri that you should rule out diabetes and thyroid issues ... the UC:CR test (urine creatine ratio) can rule OUT cushings but cannot confirm it. Kim

[SJZ66]

Just a bit of an update on Jake. I asked some more questions about his blood test and everything was within range except for his Alk Phos which was 236 in a range of 0-87. The note from the lab said that the elevation was in line with changes expected from long term Pb treatment but that cushings could not be ruled out.
I am waiting for results on the UC:CR test that I took in on Thursday but it doesnt look like they will be back until Monday now.
Jake was clear for diabetes but hasn't been checked for thyroid. My 7.5 year old has had hypothyroidism since she was 4 and to me none of his symtoms are anything like what she had, although I will check with the vet when they get back in touch next week.
It is interesting that a lot of Jakes symptoms are similar to the side effects of long term Pb usage. It will be interesting to get the UC:CR results back, even though I know that they can only rule out cushings.
Such a complicated disease. No wonder it is so hard to diagnose.

[SJZ66]

A further update on Jake. His UC:CR test came back that it is unlikley that he has cushings. Thyroid is also not a problem, but heart disease is looking most likely to be causing his most distressing symptoms so that is the track we are heading down now. He has gone downhill quite a lot just in the last week which also tends to suggest heart - although his appetite and willingness to go for a walk are confusing. Sleeping in the coolness of the garage has improved his sleep pattern hugely, but hasnt done much for his muscles and joints despite Rimadyl and a heated pad. Old age isn't much fun.

[molly muffin]

oh dear. I'm sorry to hear about Jakes probable heart problems but glad that cushings has most likely been ruled out. Take care and stay strong. Old age isn't fun at all. :( Poor guy.

[mytil]

When you get the chance, post the actual numbers of the UC:CR testing.

Please keep us posted about what is going on with his heart, especially with the symptoms he has.

Terry

[SJZ66]

Very sad to post that Jake was put to sleep today. He was very distressed last night, unable to get comfortable lying down but too tired to stay standing up. He had gone downhill so much since I spoke to the vet the previous Friday. She was unable to find much in the way of heart sounds, and his pulse was very weak and irregular. A chest xray showed an enlarged heart, lungs full of liquid, and other shading in the chest cavity. He slipped away very quickly and peacefully. Breathe easy now my special wee man, we will miss you so much.

[mytil]

I am so very very sorry!!! My heart is with you.

Please do stay with us.
((((hugs))))
Terry

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Very sad to post that Jake was put to sleep today. He was very distressed last night, unable to get comfortable lying down but too tired to stay standing up. He had gone downhill so much since I spoke to the vet the previous Friday. She was unable to find much in the way of heart sounds, and his pulse was very weak and irregular. A chest xray showed an enlarged heart, lungs full of liquid, and other shading in the chest cavity. He slipped away very quickly and peacefully. Breathe easy now my special wee man, we will miss you so much.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Jake was obviously loved so much, I'm glad he didn't suffer. Judi

[lulusmom]

I'm so sorry for your loss. Godspeed Jake.

[bgdavis]

I'm so sorry for your loss of Jake. 14 years was a great accomplishment for you both. I'm sure he was ready to move on.

Bonnie and Angel Criss

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Karen,

I am so sorry to hear about Huntaway. It is clear you gave him a life of loving care and when that life could no longer bring him comfort and joy, you gave him the greatest gift of all - freedom from his struggling body.

Today, he is strong and whole once again, running in the Rainbow Fields with sunshine on his fur and the wind in his ears with his many new, and old, friends. There he will wait for you to come to him one day when your job here is done. When it is your time to cross The Bridge, Huntaway will be there with his tail swishing, grinning from ear to ear, and he will fly into your arms once again.

Please know we are here anytime you wish to talk.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Tasha, and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal


Time to Go

The time has come I think you know
the Lord is calling so I must go
I love you so much; I wish it wasn't so
I wish I could stay; I don't want to go

You're the best family a dog ever had
so kind and gentle, never mean or mad
I'll never forget the day that we met
I was so lucky to become your pet

You opened your door and showed me your heart
I'll never forget you; we'll never part
You loved me and cared for me over the years
you taught me everything and took away my fears

The Lord is calling now I must go
but before I go I want you to know
I know it hurts to lose a friend
but I'll always be with you even to the end.

Written by John Quealy

[Bo's Mom]

I am so sorry to hear about Jake. Know that our prayers and thoughts will be with you. Angel Jake will forever live in your heart.

[molly muffin]

Oh dear. Poor fellow, it must have been exhausting for him. I'm so very sorry for your loss. They just take a big junk of our hearts with them.
HUGS!
Sharlene

[SJZ66]

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts. We miss Jake so much and he will always be in our hearts.

[jmac]

So sorry to hear about Jake...

Julie & Hannah

[k9diabetes]

I'm sorry to know that Jake passed away... It is so difficult to lose a cherished member of your family and even more of a shock when the decline is sudden. Jake was an incredibly handsome boy and obviously deeply loved, which is the most important thing to remember - the joy of the life that you gave him.

Natalie